Candy (spicy, fresh, salty) effects

[atomic fog]

is the black ant sword stabbing?

[cedar sentinel]

Slashing

Stabbing is thrusting attacks so mosquito needle and the spears

[boreal birch]

Nice and thanks for sharing. Stun thresholds were a lot harder to figure out than HP.

If slashing is an attack type, and I agree it is, why is it not in the patch notes? Every other type of damage is listed.

[muted cloak]

It actually was discussed before, I remember seeing it on a patch/note of some sort, but I don’t recall where so I can’t guide you to it. But you are correct, it was not listed on patch notes

[muted cloak]

Found it, it was only posted to the public test patch notes but not copied onto official release patch notes

[boreal birch]

Ok thanks!

[pseudo topaz]

@boreal birch just found your spreadsheet for each creature. Super helpful. Thanks a lot

[boreal birch]

👍

[cedar sentinel]

Also here it is

[livid nest]

if you put down a furnace and select the glob and then cancel the glob it gives you how ever many for the glob

thats in creative though

[wanton geode]

Ok...ik this update changed but I don't see a reason to use spears and short daggers that don't cut grass

[ocean dragon]

Because you like them is a pretty good reason.

[wanton geode]

PRETTY much xD

[empty gull]

Okay so anyone know what weapons W/O the candy works best against bugs? (Ex Chopping fir mosquito?)

[cedar sentinel]

There is a pinned chart the section for damage style is the column you want

[empty gull]

I'm not finding the pinned messages... ut then again my internet at home is pretty slow.

How would I find it?

Omg I found it. It finally loaded. I'm Sorry for bugging you

[atomic fog]

the partisan spy made a really good video on what weapons and elements you should use on each creature

[spare tusk]

Chapter 5 is coming out today! Working on it as I type this message 🙂

[atomic fog]

yay thanks for making those videos

[zinc raft]

@distant oyster Right here 🙂

You can check the pins from this thread to find it

[distant oyster]

Ohhh ok

[zinc raft]

[distant oyster]

@olive saffron

In the pins in here

[solemn sable]

Ladybug larva are immune to any spicy weapon right now, salty doesn't seem to do much. They're torn up with a mint mace and fresh damage, though

Termites seem weak to salty and slashing, unconfirmed on slashing

Dust mites are resistant to spicy and salty, I suspect they're weak to fresh

• Black widowling -- unsure
• Black Ox Beetle -- unsure
• Scarab -- unsure

[solemn sable]

Dust mites are definitely weak to fresh. Damage difference is night and day

[cedar sentinel]

What fresh weapon were you using

[scarlet pumice]

I don't think Black Ox Beetles are weak to Salty or Minty. Spicy untested. Salty and Minty were doing the same damage. But I did notice that critical hits were doing a LOT of damage. Took one from 40% to 0% health with a crit from my Salty CotMD.

My theory is their defense is super high, but they have low health to compensate.

[ocean dragon]

Black widowling?? 👀

[solemn sable]

Mint mace

[muted cloak]

What’s the black widowling o.O

[solemn sable]

Reskin of spiderling, found near/underneath tarp. Pictures were posted yesterday in the main channel

[muted cloak]

Oh cool!

[vestal jacinth]

Where’s the candy

[solemn sable]

?

[vestal jacinth]

Wait no

There was a new effect was there not?

[torpid sluice]

If slashing did a lot of damage then it's likely chopping and slashing the termites have some level of weakness towards, because the axe did a lot of damage as well

[solemn sable]

I agree, I found that a lvl 5 axe (no enchantment/candy) was doing far better than my spicy greatsword

[vestal jacinth]

Spicy isn’t the best for a great sword

[solemn sable]

I haven't gone back with any salty weapons because I have so many termite parts stockpiled that I don't really need to, but I think you're right

[desert bramble]

4x against spiders

Tho

[solemn sable]

I'm aware

Just happened to have it on me at the time.

[vestal jacinth]

Actually mighty is because they are weak to mighty and since mighty gives more base damage mighty is better

[desert bramble]

They are weak to mighty??

[vestal jacinth]

Yee

How do u think I beat the brood in 20 seconds or less

[solemn sable]

It takes 7 swings with a mighty greatsword to kill an orb weaver and 4 with a spicy one

Broodmother is weak to mighty, not all spiders

[torpid sluice]

So wouldn't the coal sword be perfect for spiders? Spicy, slashing, and mighty

[desert bramble]

Yea that’s what I did

Gonna take a while to upgrade my weapons back to their OG strength

[solemn sable]

For reference:
#895763313491869736 message

There isn't really any objective "best" candy augment per weapon, the whole reason for the mechanic is that it's contextual and depends on what you're fighting.

[normal laurel]

Grounded PTS isn't showing up for me. Anyone got a fix?

[desert bramble]

Yeah that’s why I have the 3 special element type weapons

[desert bramble]

#758424734718492694

[solemn sable]

@stray garden

[stray garden]

Thank you!

[solemn sable]

Termites seem weak to salty and slashing, unconfirmed on slashing

Termite axe does well against them

[vestal jacinth]

They ain’t weak to slashing

My sword does almost nothing

[solemn sable]

That's the whole reason for this thread, to figure it all out

I was told that a salty greatsword was effective so I was tentatively open to them being weak against slashing, but it's likely that chopping damage is the weakness if swords aren't effective

I was quoting myself above, as the first person to be reporting on it 😏 For the record

[torpid sluice]

my salty level 6 termite axe did really well against the termite nest, so I'm almost certain they're weak to chopping

[hasty mist]

Coal sword? Is this the spicy equivalent of the mint mace and salt morning star?

[torpid sluice]

Yes

[solemn sable]

Yep, coaltana. It's 2H slashing with spicy innate

[normal laurel]

So they aren't weak to slashing..or spicy?

[solemn sable]

Termites?

I think it's chopping + salty

Hearing Ox Beetles seem weak to smashing and salt

[pseudo topaz]

I believe termites are weak to chopping and.. spicy? I haven't figured out the candy yet

[solemn sable]

Possibly generic? I've been using my salty xbow against them and it works well (though it's legacy it does deal salt damage) so I'm inclined to agree salt is the weakness

[solemn sable]

I think it's salty and chopping from a few reports here

[pseudo topaz]

Ah ok

[solemn sable]

It seems they're rebalancing how salty hardly had any targets with this new update

[pseudo topaz]

I'll have to compare my morning star and greatsword

[solemn sable]

Yeah let us know. I'd taken those same weapons and felt my spicy greatsword was very underwhelming against them, but feel free to report back to confirm or tell us otherwise

Salty tier 3 termite axe seems to do a lot against them

[pseudo topaz]

Yes salty does more than spicy

[solemn sable]

Still nothing on black widowlings in this thread afaik, if any one runs into them and can spare some testing

(I've yet to see them, lol)

[pseudo topaz]

The devs don't even credit them as a new enemy

Maybe they are hiding something

[solemn sable]

Yeah, probably are trying to bury the lead on a new miniboss or some content

[mossy sable]

Do we know whats good against dust mites?

And ox beetles?

[solemn sable]

I've had a lot of luck against dust mites with the mint mace

Seems to be Fresh / Smashing(?)

I've heard that ox beetles are likely Salty, which tracks with what I've done on ranged

[vital moth]

Salt

[vestal jacinth]

no its not

fresh is

[gray pike]

is the ox beetle weak against smashing

[vestal jacinth]

yes

[gray pike]

okay

[vital moth]

Mint

[pseudo topaz]

They resist salt

[scarlet pumice]

You saw nothing. NOTHING.

Wait, wrong channel.

[pseudo topaz]

👁‍🗨 👁‍🗨

[vital moth]

Oh

Mint for ox bettle
Spice for lava things
Salt for termites?

[mossy sable]

Salty axe for termites aparrently

[vital moth]

Ok

[vestal jacinth]

U mean ladybug larvae? They are immune to spicy

[vital moth]

Yeah

Salt for them

This is silly carry four demon clubs around

[vestal jacinth]

Or just have a salty sword and a mint club

[vestal jacinth]

Dust mites resist spicy

[scarlet pumice]

Black Ox Beetles are weak to Crush. Like, really weak. My T3 hammer was doing more damage than my clubs.

[vital moth]

What's good for wolf spiders?

[scarlet pumice]

Spicy, bladed. Unless it's the infected one. Then minty, bladed.

[solemn sable]

Maybe not a coincidence? Termites weak against termite axe, black ox weak against black ox hammer

Kind of odd to think a bug's weakness is itself

I guess they do evolve to fight eachother in many cases, like moose

[scarlet pumice]

Must have something to do with seduction. That's my theory, anyway.

[vital moth]

Ty,

[vital moth]

@scarlet pumice what kind of blade?

[scarlet pumice]

Any sword.

Well, maybe not just ANY. I think slashy types did well.

[vital moth]

Ty

[torpid sluice]

Antlions are weak against antlion sword

[elfin bronze]

What weapon is best for those dust mites?

[torpid sluice]

Minty is the candy, and based on the normal mites stabbing or slashing

Regular mite is weak to stabbing and infected is weak to slashing unless it was changed in the pts

[tired glen]

e

[mossy sable]

What candy was good against Oxes????

Mint?

[solemn sable]

Salt

[mossy sable]

oh

Is there an updated image with all the new bugs?

[solemn sable]

Not afaik. The original spreadsheet was never shared to be updated

[mossy sable]

i see. thx

[pseudo topaz]

Green shield bugs are resistant, almost immune to dissing of any kind

[tardy zinc]

What is good against ox beetle and roly poly

[tired glen]

salt for ox spicy for roly

[tardy zinc]

Ok ty

[scarlet pumice]

Oh, spicy for roly? No wonder why I was barely doing damage. I was using Salty.

[mossy sable]

Spicy for rolly?????? I didnt even know that

[tardy zinc]

Elemintals

[inland crest]

k

[inland crest]

fully maxed in their own perks?

[tired glen]

is a salt morning star good for termites

[tired glen]

so is wolf

but all 3 are weak to spicy

[vestal jacinth]

What’s the ox’s weakness

[tired glen]

salt

and smashing

[vestal jacinth]

Hence why the coaltana is the broods worst nightmare

And it’s res?

[tired glen]

we arent aware yet

[vestal jacinth]

It might be mint

[tired glen]

id say either fresh or spicy

[elfin bronze]

What element for dust mites? Minty?

[torpid sluice]

Yes

[river flicker]

@tired glen you make that chart?

[solemn sable]

MediocreMilton is credited with making the chart

Should probably add his own credit or watermark to it

[river flicker]

I know I just wanted to know if he would take credit for something that isn't his

[solemn sable]

I'm sure Milton didn't do all that testing himself either. We had this thread going long before that was first published

[ocean dragon]

You and someone else i can't remember did a lot of work making those charts the youtubers started claiming

[solemn sable]

@quiet root virtually had a full list within the first night of the PTS, which was far more work and effort than myself and I think should effectively get a lot of credit. There have been several different charts, so it's hard to know which were derivative and etc

[ocean dragon]

That's their name, thank you.

[boreal birch]

That is my chart. I used the initial testing done on this thread but found some differences which is why I went back and tested every combo on every bug.

[tired glen]

no, why?

[solemn sable]

You should probably watermark a version if you update it considering that recent "my friend" fiasco on reddit

[tired glen]

what happened on reddit?

[solemn sable]

Just a funny post where someone said "My friend made this chart!" and Milton came in and said "Am I your friend?"

[tired glen]

lol

also theres a grounded reddit

[boreal birch]

Or I could just become friends with everyone 🤔

[tired glen]

oh i found the post

op said their friend claimed they made it

well worked on it

so maybe their friend did help on the chart

as there were multiple people who helped

[boreal birch]

No one helped. I tested everything myself and made that sheet. Like I said the initial info that came out had some correct and some incorrect info so I redid it all to get the most accurate data.

[tired glen]

ah

[scarlet pumice]

Was testing a bit on my medium world.

Ladybird Larva seemed weak to Stab. Chopping untested.
Ladybirds were weak to Smashing.
Termites were weak to Smashing.

Termites include workers, soldiers, and the king.

Pretty sure the larva and termites resist Generic. My clubs barely did anything. (Actually, I'm barely doing any damage at all with my clubs in the upper yard.)

[torpid sluice]

Termites were smashing for you?

Did you try chopping? My termite axe did a LOT of damage to them

[solemn sable]

It might be a major/minor between the two

We should take a hammer and axe with the same damage output and see if one noticeably does more

[scarlet pumice]

Yeah, Smashing may have been a minor.

Only did barely more than my clubs.

[fast niche]

Yeah they worked really hard to remove the club meta
Now clubs are just bad
Dang

On the plus side, greatswords are going to be great, at least until the next update

[narrow rock]

@fickle fern you should find the best set of current answers to your question reading through here

[solemn sable]

**Ladybug Larva **- Fresh / Smashing or Generic(?)
Termites - Salty / Chopping
Dust Mites - Fresh / Smashing
Black Ox - Salty / Generic(?)
**Scarab **- Resistant to salt, unknown
Ladybirds - Unknown

[fickle fern]

Thanks

[pseudo topaz]

I'll be the one to get ladybird data

[torpid sluice]

I'll start a datasheet about enemy weaknesses and strengths, probably won't finish but I'll post results somewhere

Probably here

The ones for candy should be easy, no idea how I'm gonna figure out the weapon weaknesses though other than "this does good damage" "this does not"

(I'll make sure not to use any weapons with crit, poison, etc)

[spare tusk]

I'll save you time on the Infected Wolf Spider, just did a guide on it:

1. Fresh (strongest)
2. Spicy
3. Mighty
4. Salty

[vestal jacinth]

Well no fuck fresh is the best everything infected is weak to it

[torpid sluice]

I did some of the chart, I'm confused on if ladybird larva is a bit weak to salty, a bit resistant to mighty, or both

[vestal jacinth]

It’s weak to fresh

[torpid sluice]

I'm not confused on that part

[vestal jacinth]

It’s almost immune (basically immune) to spicy

And mighty just goes off base damage

[torpid sluice]

Things are weak and resistant to mighty too, and I can't have a level 6 none of the above to see how it is in relation to that

[vestal jacinth]

So salt is the middle ground

[torpid sluice]

If it wasn't weak/resistant to either salt would be barely more hits than mighty due to mighty getting a tiny amount more damage per upgrade

There's too big of a difference for that though

[vestal jacinth]

How big?

[torpid sluice]

A few hits

I'll check

24 for mighty and 14 for salty

9 for fresh and I didn't even bother with spicy after 50 or so hits

[vestal jacinth]

What weapon?

[spare tusk]

Don't forget about the damage change on the combo system. To make your data valid, hits should be done as full combos.

[torpid sluice]

Yes, I made sure to always hit so the combo wouldn't mess things up

If I miss the first hit for example I'll do another first hit before starting another combo

[boreal birch]

How do you determine Weakness and Resistance when the damage is so close? For reference I used a weapon with the same damage none above level 5 so no influence by upgrade and did 3 hit combo except for stabbing I used a bow and did 3 hits which should still be 100-100-100.

[torpid sluice]

I haven't even considered attempting doing different weapons, I'm just doing a level 6 of each augment type black ant sword and counting how many hits in a row until the enemy dies

[cedar sentinel]

I base it off one hit comparisons

[torpid sluice]

Wait

Is one chunk of the health bar the same for every enemy, or for every enemy with the same color health bar?

[solemn sable]

Seems like we're kind of left to our own devices through guesswork and intuition

[torpid sluice]

If it's either then we can just use current info to easily determine weaknesses

[cedar sentinel]

Its why you do the test on each enemy

[cedar sentinel]

Color just denotes rough enemy tier you would still need to test with each enemy

[solemn sable]

I had the impression that chopping was doing well against termites mostly from speed that I could kill them -- usually felt like 2H weapons are always the way to go except in the case of termites specifically

[torpid sluice]

If one unit on the health bar is the same across different enemy's of the same health bar color or just all enemies universally then it's quite easy

Oh, I see

It's too late for me to get back on and see, but if one chunk of the bar is the same amount of health for every enemy then we can just compare those to figure it out

We could just use this to test that, assuming it's unchanged in the pts

[solemn sable]

Assuming the damage indicators in the weapon UIs are the same, if I were testing I'd try to find a set of weapons through all tiers that each had identical damage amounts (like stinger spear lvl 5 might be equivalent to ant club of a lower level, etc) then take a single swing at each

[solemn sable]

Milton was the one who made this and is also the one asking the question though lol 😏

[torpid sluice]

If this is accurate, which it seems so from every time I've used it, then it should be good

[cedar sentinel]

For striking weakness you would do single hit comparisons on how much damage that single hit took out. Whichever did the largest chunk you then make a variation for each augment and do another one hit damage comparison to get the augment weakness. This is how i planned to do the test.

[torpid sluice]

Sounds good, and then something like Photoshop could be used to compare the enemy health bars after those single hits to the pixel

[cedar sentinel]

If the hot and hazy patch notes are correct in theory mighty would be the 2nd or 3rd in damage with at least one of salty/minty/spicy being higher than it denoting a major weakness and potential minor weakness and one of the three being weaker than mighty denoting the resistance the bug has.

[solemn sable]

I suspect the UI isn't consistent enough to have fully identical weapon damages throughout each type because it only accounts for whole digits or .5 increments. 3 and 3.5 aren't accurate once upgraded if the percentage increase is 35% and so on, it seems like the UI would be rounding a number like 3.375 up to 3.5, and I'm suspecting the numbers are much larger amounts entirely to account for weaknesses/resistances

Even if we did have 5 weapons with visually identical damage... I'm not sure the underlying numbers would actually match in order to get totally accurate results

[cedar sentinel]

In theory also with the changes done to creative we may be able to fast track this testing for a base level of weaknesses and resistances testing if trying it from a one hit strike test.

[torpid sluice]

If nobody else does it before this, I'll see about it when I have time tomorrow

[boreal birch]

Testing so far that I'm confident in:

Ladybird - weak to Fresh and Smashing, resistant to Salty and Chopping and Slashing

Black Ox Beetle - weak to Salty and Smashing with minor weakness to Generic and resistant to Stabbing

Termite - weak to Salty and Stabbing and resistant to Fresh and Spicy and Slashing with minor resistance to Generic

Termite Soldier - weak to Salty and resistant to Fresh and Spicy damage types are too close to call but order of preference is Stabbing, Smashing, Chopping, Generic then Slashing

The testing this go around is much tougher because of the changes to weapon damage and the new bugs having much higher HP. A single hit isn't good enough so I've been doing 3 hit combos and for stabbing 3 shots with an insect bow using normal arrows.

The other weapons I'm using are Termite Axe, Black Ant Sword, Insect Hammer and Ant Club at 3.5 damage each

[solemn sable]

Hmmm, if a weapon is 3.375 rounded up to 3.5 in the UI, wouldn't the last hit combo attack exaggerate the difference between real number and rounded and skew the results? I guess this only applies if you're using upgraded weapons

[boreal birch]

The issue is I'm not sure if the damage is exactly 3.5 or rounded and I don't know if upgrades are applying correctly because I initially was going to use the pebblet weapons but the hammer ended up with higher damage than the spear and axe even though they all have the same 1.0 damage as a base.

They need to ditch the bars and just put numbers in there

[solemn sable]

I guess the results would be skewed through rounding either way except in the second hit, yeah

[boreal birch]

and the bug HP bar should have a number in it that depletes when they are hit but they can still keep the bar

[solemn sable]

Close enough though, and your testing from before definitely seems accurate enough

[boreal birch]

The candy upgrade is easy to test because I just use a level 9 Greatsword with each upgrade and it does massive damage

[boreal birch]

That worked in the last PTS but not in this one. A single hit on the Black Ox Beetle does such a small amount of damage it's almost impossible to see the difference. You have to do a 3 hit combo or 2 I guess would also work but 1 isn't enough. It also doesn't help that getting weapons at the same level for each damage type that also do enough damage to tell the difference is much harder now.

[torpid sluice]

I only tested weapon augments and got the same results for the ladybird, but mighty, spicy, and fresh seemed pretty much the same for termites

36 hits with a T6 mighty black ant sword vs 38 hits on spicy and fresh

I'll check my chart again

[boreal birch]

The other 3 are about the same for Termites but I was killing them in 3 hits with a Salty Greatsword so it was doing double the damage of the other 3 which would mean they are resistant to them.

[torpid sluice]

I see

[boreal birch]

They are 100% definitely very weak to salt

I'd avoid the other 3 for now against them

[solemn sable]

Plus there's a dual-weakness system, presumably damage could be 150% with both damage type and candy compared to 50% with resistance to both type and candy

I think it was +/-25% per weakness/resistance on the original patch notes but I might be wrong

Kind of wish we could just datamine this out instead of doing manual testing

[torpid sluice]

For determining weaknesses and resistances that are very close could it be beneficial to intentionally use the very resisted augment/weapon type to test the weapon type/augment?

So, if ladybirds weapon stats needed to be found would it help to use salty on the weapons for example?

Over a larger amount of hits would that exaggerate the differences?

[boreal birch]

There was never clarification if the weaknesses and resistances stacked and if so how much. For example assuming 25% bonus is it 150% (25% + 25%) bonus for double weakness or is it 156% (1.25 * 1.25)?

Are they even applying correctly? It's impossible to know because we can't see the raw numbers

[solemn sable]

Right, it's very vague. Looking back, it doesn't even mention candy:

All creatures in the backyard now have inherent strengths and weaknesses to specific damage types. For example:
-Ladybug
--75% damage taken from Stabbing (arrows and spears) and Chopping (axes and daggers)
--100% damage taken from Generic (clubs and misc)
--125% damage taken from Smashing (hammers)
The current damage types in the game that this system taps into are:

[torpid sluice]

I wouldn't say it's impossible to figure it out, just extremely tedious

Thinking more, extremely tedious

[boreal birch]

We don't know the exact HP of each bug. I did my best to figure them out but there is room for error.

Now with the 50-100-150 combo system it's even harder to figure out total HP because you'd have to record the fight and watch it back. I'm not doing that, it's not worth my time

[torpid sluice]

I might be able to figure out some easier method, just not now at 11PM

[boreal birch]

If you can figure out how to view the game code that would make it much easier. I tried but couldn't get the damn files readable because they have them locked in some Unreal format.

[cedar sentinel]

The candies are mentioned right after with the list of damage types that are apart of the new system

[torpid sluice]

I'm on Xbox so I'll need to find out some entirely in-game method

Messing with known resistances and weaknesses for enough time should help

[boreal birch]

but it didn't mention what the Ladybug was weak/resistant to

[cedar sentinel]

They were probably using that as a vanilla explanation given the weapon types were something we were already somewhat used to but just became more enforced where as the candy system didnt exactly exist besides the mint mace prior to hot and hazy.

[boreal birch]

I still think they need to do another pass on this system. I think the bonus/punishment should be 75% so 175%/25% because at 125%/75% the wrong weapons often still outperform the right weapons.

Example: Termites are resistant to Slashing but the Antlion Greatsword kills them in 3 hits when Salty.

[scarlet pumice]

Infected Wolf Spider is obviously weak to Fresh. That much is for certain. But is it known if Slashing is still the go-to weapon for it? My club does decent, but I wonder if my greatsword will do better?

Need to upgrade it again to find out better.

Actually, to hell with it. It's level 6 minty. Gimmie a sec.

Yep. Was definitely doing more than my club. Don't think I can block any of its explosive attacks.

[solemn sable]

It just struck me that Explosive is a damage type listed in the patch notes:

-Stabbing
-Chopping
-Smashing
-Generic
-Explosive
-Fresh
-Spicy

And that, at least according to every chart posted here, not a single bug is weak to it

[tired glen]

yeah it could factor into the weakness chart

[solemn sable]

Yeah I think it's been completely overlooked 😞 Which kind of throws the entire system into question a bit, or at least makes me wonder if one of the reasons for all the bomb interactions and overhaul of ant eggs was to make bombs more accessible and have enemies weak to it

[tired glen]

yeah lol

and splatburst sticking

makes bomb combat more believable

[dawn light]

give me my slingshot

[torpid sluice]

I'll test much later today the hope that one segment of the health bar is the same for every insect, and each insect just has a different amount of those units of health bar

That'll make it pretty easy to see explosion weakness and resistance if it exists, alongside all other weaknesses and resistances

[scarlet pumice]

Still, explosive damage? It's difficult enough to amass splatbursts. Why waste them on singular bugs?

[cedar sentinel]

Just read through the patch notes on the damage progression combo again and am wondering if you can skip the first hit and make contact on the second and third hit for the damage of the second and third hit or will the miss count as a miss and the second hit be counted as a first hit and third hit count as a second hit.

[pseudo topaz]

No I believe if you intentionally miss to get more damage there's no penalty

[cedar sentinel]

Thats what im hoping is how the three swings are registered.

[scarlet pumice]

Is there an updated spreadsheet somewhere with the new bugs with rough estimates of weaknesses and resistances?

[dawn light]

#895763313491869736 message
#895763313491869736 message

[scarlet pumice]

Ah, handy. But I'm not sure if the healthy Roly Polys have the same affinities.

Guess I'll have to look into it.

Hmm...looks like I might have a use for a salty morning star. Or I could just make a hammer Salty and use a Fresh club for the upper yard.

[dawn light]

I would be surprised if they don't have the same affinities. They are both roly polys; one is weaker (sickly) than the other

[uneven fractal]

Yeah I’ve been purposely missing my first swing to save on durability. Combo goes off of swings not hits

At least for now

[scarlet pumice]

Dust Mites. Those are weak to fresh, right? So what about weapon style? Chopping, maybe?

[muted cloak]

I believe this would be applying to the truffle tussle mutation. (Apologies if it already was discussed, I didn’t bother to scroll up too much lol)

[scarlet pumice]

Having a tough time taking them down fast enough. They're so bulky for such small creatures.

[boreal birch]

I never tested it because there's no stats for them. What's their base damage?

[scarlet pumice]

Actually, now that I think about it, Explosive damage CAN be used without standard bombs. Truffle Tussle!

[spare tusk]

Bombs can be tested as weapons based on the damage it does on each creature and compare the results with itself. Atm there is no reliable way to compare different weapons as the damage bar doesn't represent exactly the damage it does.

Any data collected based on the damage bars is good as a player's feeling.

This added to the combo change that's coming... It has made it even more unreliable.

[torpid sluice]

Ill do some more testing soon, I'll see if one health bar chunk is the same amount for every insect

[spare tusk]

I've did a research about it when last patch was released and there is nothing that assures 100% about it. But the fact that stronger creatures have more "segments" in ifs health then others is a strong evidence about it.

[torpid sluice]

Yes, so I'll test it out

It would be strange for it to just be however many the devs thought looked good for the bug

[solemn sable]

I don't think it's straightforward enough to know, tbh. We're not told of total HP and we don't know if bugs have any kind of internal defense / damage threshold stats beyond weakness/resistance

For example, I shoot an Orb Weaver with a crossbow and take nearly two bars. I shoot a scarab with the same crossbow and I only do 3/4 of a single bar

Does that mean scarabs are resistant to arrows? Maybe, but they seem to have a much higher defense than lower-yard bugs overall

[spare tusk]

the damage resistance or armor has no influence on HP pool bar

[solemn sable]

It has an influence on testing to find out, though

😏

[spare tusk]

exactly

read my first message about it

[solemn sable]

Would make it awfully easy to get skewed results.

[spare tusk]

that's why you cant compare weapons but you can compare a single weapon performance with all creatures

[solemn sable]

There's been quite a bit of testing on scarabs in the #933955804732743730 thread with most weapons that seems to contradict that

[spare tusk]

you are not getting my point, I will send you a link of a video that explains it.

via dm

[solemn sable]

No thanks if you don't mind, I'd really rather not have DMs

The low health of a scarab compared to the amount of damage done through virtually every weapon available to us seems to imply that they have low health, high defense

This is kind of my point, because it seems to have higher defense than other creatures unless it's just a unique mechanic for it alone

[spare tusk]

np, here you have it: https://youtu.be/u0IUPNKyf8s

you are trying to compare different weapons with a single creature and this is not possible with the data provided.

What I am saying is that you can compare the performance of a single weapon too a pull of creatures. (considering the segments of the health bars are equal)

[solemn sable]

I'm not actually, I'm saying the damage done to this specific one seems to contradict the performance against the entire pool of creatures. The performance of a xbow is diminished against a scarab compared to Orb weavers and our expectations, and while you'd think that maybe scarabs have Stabbing resistance and that accounts for it, it seems to be the case with all other damage types and weapons.

[torpid sluice]

Scarabs might just resist everything

[solemn sable]

Or they have some underlying armor / damage threshold / defense mechanics, yeah.

[spare tusk]

I agree to that, now I understand and it has happened in some cases on the final results of the weapons guide I worked on.

Broodmother is a great example to that.

[torpid sluice]

The ladybug larvae seem to have a massive resistance to spicy damage, is there a possibility there's more than just major and minor resistances now? Possibly a super-resistance?

[solemn sable]

Originally when the PTS dropped they were completely immune to any spicy weapon instead of just being resistant:
https://gfycat.com/blindanguishedcusimanse

[spare tusk]

I think so, yes. The infected wolf spider melts to mint arrows.

[solemn sable]

They've patched them to be "highly resistant" because prior many were complaining there seemed to be no collision or staggering at all, it felt very confusing

[boreal birch]

We need the bars to be replaced with the actual numbers at this point and the bestiary otherwise we are all just giving our best estimates

[solemn sable]

Yeah... It's too much of a guessing game, I feel. A lot of people can earnestly do their best but we're all at the mercy of our presuppositions and expectations of how it works

[spare tusk]

It would surely be better, but I don't think the intention of this game is to accurate and performance based as a hard core rpg.

[torpid sluice]

I'll begin testing the health bar chunks thing now

[boreal birch]

You are probably right but for those of us that can't help but care about the most accurate data it would be a nice feature to toggle on/off

[spare tusk]

I based my weapons guide on that, if you need any help, let me know. 👍

[spare tusk]

best example to that are the mutations descriptions 🙂

[boreal birch]

I love the phrase "a chance to...." that's great what's the exact percentage 🤣

[spare tusk]

I played so many games with exact numbers to everything that I actually like the "not knowing" and guessing part. I feel it fits to the core concept of Grounded. But we will have to wait and see if numbers will pop into our screens after a hit or not!

[torpid sluice]

That's promising

Exactly 10 punches did exactly 1 chunk of a red soldier ants health

[solemn sable]

What damage type is punching? Generic?

[spare tusk]

😂 I was going to make the same question!

[torpid sluice]

It probably doesn't have a damage type, but I'll try to account for that

[solemn sable]

The only thing I'd expect wouldn't have a damage type is probably fall damage?

[torpid sluice]

Red solider ant has no resistance or weakness to generic or busting, which are the only two that would make sense for a punch

[spare tusk]

last patch I had hours and hours of debate with my friends about the weapon system

[solemn sable]

Otherwise Spicy Safety seems to imply that even bugs apply their own damage types to us

[spare tusk]

what type of strike do you classify the Mosquito Needle?

[solemn sable]

...Stabbing?

[torpid sluice]

Possibly the same for red ant worker, I'll need to do another to be sure

[spare tusk]

based on the PTS patch notes every sword is slashing...

hahahaha

this is so funny

[cedar sentinel]

Per the 0.11 patch notes there is a high chance punching could be classed as generic.

[solemn sable]

Recently did a writeup about how I find this confusing and inconsistent in the UI:

[spare tusk]

😂 this is awesome, I have the same feeling. I actually started my weapons guide talking exactly about that.

but you went further into this new patch, love it

I honestly think this is a easy UI design fix that we will see it in a near future. But, yeah, it can be frustrating to some not knowing and having to guess.

[cedar sentinel]

So info not carried into the regular patch notes of 0.11 but should still be relevant.

-Swords now have their own damage type: "Slashing"
-Affects 1 handed and 2 handed swords (except the rapier, which is still piercing damage)

[torpid sluice]

The red ant seemed like one bar was also 10 punches

I'll test on another enemy type

12 hits and the first 2 took out the tiny bit over 1 bar the workers have

The next easiest one to reach that has enough health would be an infected or meaty gnat, so this is gonna take a little while

If I confirm 10 punches is 1 bar then we can see if fists have a damage type

This testing is being done in creative, which I believe is medium difficulty health values

[cedar sentinel]

You have to dig through the various 0.11 pts patch notes to find some of the extra info that for some reason wasnt carried into the regular patch notes when the update went live but was still added as a mechanic.

[spare tusk]

Cool, that's one mystery solved, considering piercing is stabbing, right?

[torpid sluice]

A chunk of the Black ants health bar only lost about half from 10 punches and they aren't resistant to anything based on the chart, I'll test with infected and meaty gnats but that's a bad sign

Same for meaty gnats

Guess the chunks don't mean much

It's a bit odd it was exactly 10 punches for a bar of both types of red ant though

Wait, this could still be useful, especially if fists don't have a damage type, I'll try to draw what I mean

Basically, I think as long as they don't have a damage class punches can be used as a unit of measurement that can be universally applied to all bugs

[cedar sentinel]

I believe they meant to say stabbing as that would add another if they really meant pierce

[torpid sluice]

I've got this so far

Actually, I think I'm overcomplicating it

I'll try to see if punches have a damage type, if they don't then we can just measure the health of any enemy in punches to kill

Ok, Im gonna test before going any further with this

[boreal birch]

Good luck punching beefier bugs that will heal themselves mid fight. From my testing a punch was doing 0.5 damage prior to this update so for a Sickly Roly Poly that would be about 400 punches.

By the way I did a video on all the bugs HP prior to this update if you want something to compare to but I think they changed their HP in this update

[torpid sluice]

I'm doing it in creative so things hopefully won't heal

Pebblet axe seems to do exactly twice as much damage as fist, it seemed like exactly 12 first hits of the axe combo and 12 hits was the amount of punches that also seemed exact

This is gonna need its own spreadsheet

And 10 for the pebblet hammer, all of these go REALLY nicely into the red worker ant health bar

[torpid sluice]

For higher health bugs I may use the fist damage mutation if that's a nice number like times 2

[torpid sluice]

All tier one weapons done on red worker ant except for larva blade, poison would make testing that accurately really hard

Hopefully all the tier 2s scale the same so I can use the black ant sword to figure it out

48 punches did exactly 1/3 of the infected larva health bar and 32 pebblet axe swings did the same

Based on the red worker ants it should have been 48 or 32 for both

I'm gonna need to do a LOT of testing before I can tell what's going on with these numbers

I should be able to get it though

So far I'm getting what look like exact integers for everything but the pebblet dagger

I'll do a few more bugs and then release the progress

[boreal birch]

I tested in creative as well and they will sometimes heal

[solemn sable]

Wonder how difficulty scaling fits into this

[boreal birch]

I believe creative is equal to medium

[torpid sluice]

I've almost finished bombardier, I'll do stinkbug and then post the progress

Actually, I'll post what I have now and continue testing tomorrow

It looks bad but I'm doing it on my phone, and I haven't used excel much

[torpid sluice]

After I get a lot more entries I should be able to figure out numbers for weapons and bug health and such, I'll probably define 1 damage as 1 punch

[torpid sluice]

I've found something

After a lot of math, just comparing ratios, I have found that, relative to punches, for infected larva I got a number of 2/3 for the axes

2/3 times 0.875 gives the exact decimal I got from the punch to axe ratio of regular larvae

I'm rounding numbers up/down 1 based on the final hit if it doesn't deal it's full damage, but to get the exact decimal...

I am also doing half damage of weapons to calculate, so I am not sure if that affects things, I'll check

It might, I'm just gonna play the game now but I think I might be slowly understanding things

If I can eventually get results that don't differ from whats known then I should be able to just use numbers to find enemy weaknesses and resistances, instead of just doing what looks/seems correct

[fast niche]

Yeah with just a bit of division you can actually quantify things

[torpid sluice]

I sure can't wait to do all this just for the devs to release the bestiary days after

[warped vapor]

Well, you know it’s coming

So weigh the value of early results in your mind

[scarlet pumice]

Are dust mites super tanky or something? Or maybe they resist Generic? My minty CotMD doesn't do a whole lot.

[solemn sable]

My lvl 8 mint mace almost takes them out in a single combo, I suspect a lvl 9 could

You'd think there wouldn't be a significant difference between a minty CotMD and mint mace, though?

[scarlet pumice]

I've yet to figure out their weapon weakness, really. Was so pre-occupied with the other bugs. If I had to guess with the whole copy/paste thing going on, they'd be weak to Chopping.

[vestal jacinth]

well the mint mace is both minty and mighty

[scarlet pumice]

Wait...standard is slashing, and infected is stabbing.

[vestal jacinth]

what

[scarlet pumice]

I'll have to bring my minty sword and make a minty stabbing weapon for this.

[solemn sable]

I've heard a lot of conflicting information about whether Mighty is a weakness from reliable sources. Milton lists it as an element, Rayman says it is not, so I'm not really sure

[vestal jacinth]

not what i meant

im saying this because a lvl 9 cotbm only has 45% while a lvl 9 mint mace has 65%

[torpid sluice]

Ill test it when I get the chance, I just have a ton of work at the moment sadly

[solemn sable]

CotMD has a higher base damage, though. So the difference shouldn't be significant enough for one user to not think it qualifies as a weakness, imo

[scarlet pumice]

If my hunch is correct, they've copy/pasted the infected mite, explaining the dust mite resistance to Generic. If I'm correct, a minty stabbing weapon should do the most damage. But what should I make minty? A Mosquito Needle or a Bee Stinger Spear?

[torpid sluice]

I prefer the Bee spear

[solemn sable]

Ranged also qualifies as stabbing iirc

[scarlet pumice]

Base damage or no, the resistances may nullify the bonuses from candies. By going for the correct setup on both weapon and candies, one should get a fair bit more damage on their target. Theoretically. Where it's noticable.

Either that, or dust mites are simply super tanky.

[solemn sable]

How much were you doing in a single combo?

What level club, as well?

[scarlet pumice]

A little over half with my level 7 minty Club of the Mother Demon.

As in, it had a little over half its health left.

[solemn sable]

I do about 90% of their health with a lvl 8 mint mace on medium

[scarlet pumice]

(Why did I make a CotMD minty when the mint mace exists?)

[solemn sable]

Tell that to my spicy greatsword

[scarlet pumice]

RIP

[torpid sluice]

I wonder how the game registers that

[scarlet pumice]

I can probably test this in a sec. One of my old teammates wasted a mint chunk on some arrows. Got 4 left.

[torpid sluice]

If ranged does count as stabbing then might the crow hat increase spear damage?

[solemn sable]

I think there's a subclass in play

[torpid sluice]

Wish I could test now, hopefully the work I have doesn't take too long

[solemn sable]

Otherwise Javelineer would affect ranged, and Marksman would affect spears as well

[cedar sentinel]

Its technically the same thing with the mosquito needle as it is a sword with stabbing.

Also daggers and axes are both chopping so there are other precedent for overlapping striking types with weapon classes

[scarlet pumice]

You'd think daggers would be stabbing, but nooooo. They have to be chopping.

[torpid sluice]

I thought they were slashing

[cedar sentinel]

Chopping as they can cut grass/weed/eelgrass

[scarlet pumice]

Hopefully, the weapon types will eventually be condensed into Slashing, Stabbing, and Smashing. Simplify the whole thing.

[torpid sluice]

It just makes sense for them to deal slashing damage to me based on their animation, but that makes sense

[warped vapor]

I think the reason chopping and smashing exist is to enable hammers, daggers, and axes to be used on resource nodes while preventing everything else from using them

[torpid sluice]

Wait, I think the dagger has a 2 hit combo if I remember correctly

I wonder if the first hit for daggers is actually 50% like it is with the other weapons, if not then that messes with things a bit

[solemn sable]

Just as a followup, I'm killing dust mites in a single combo with a lvl 9 mint mace

Either as 1 - 2 - 3, or 1 - 2 and 1 - 2

[torpid sluice]

This would explain the odd numbers im getting with the daggers if it's correct, later Im gonna try multiplying the dagger numbers by something in case dagger combos are 33 - 66 instead of the 50 - 100 - 150 and see if it gets a pattern. I might just need to retest the daggers doing their full combo though in case that doesn't work

[pseudo topaz]

https://c.tenor.com/OMzytiV1f8oAAAAM/gordon-batman-begins.gif

[tight sail]

What are termites weak to

[mossy sable]

CHopping and salt

[scarlet pumice]

With a wave of my burrito and a little taco dust, this thread has been unarchived!

[torpid sluice]

Oh right, I said I was gonna do this

I'll just post the numbers I got so far in case anyone else feels like doing it, I don't but I might get back to it later

[torpid sluice]

This is a possible explanation for the dagger numbers being so strange

[vital moth]

What's good for those sandpit things?

My salt mother of demon club works brill but these Thier anything better?

[torpid sluice]

Antlions?

A Salty Sword is best

[vital moth]

Ty

[boreal birch]

I added this info plus a little more to my spreadsheet. There is a video just posted on my YouTube if you want to see how all the best weapons perform against the new bugs. I will also be revamping my spreadsheet in the next couple of weeks.

I decided that weapon damage type was not worth including for two reasons. First there is no way to get fair results because of the weapon base damage changes and many of the new bugs having high health pools. Second the tier 3 weapons, even when not the right weapon damage type will outperform tier 1 and tier 2 weapons because their damage is so much higher.

As an example it is never best to use any of the spears or daggers because their base damage is so poor compared to the tier 3 weapons. This will change if/when a tier 3 spear and dagger are added if they have a reasonable base damage.

[scarlet pumice]

Yeah, real shame we don't have that stuff yet. One day, one day...

[torpid sluice]

I actually have some time today so I'll see what I can do with the numbers from hitting things again

I did find that thing with the larvae

[scarlet pumice]

I think Chillax got a specific group of weapons to the same stats with controlled upgrading to figure out weapon weaknesses. If we've learned anything, it's that raw power alone won't bypass resistances now.

[torpid sluice]

Daggers combo seems to be 50% - 150%, and it also seems to equal the damage done by a larva blade when only hitting the 50 and the 150 hits

I'm pretty sure the damage bar is the same across weapon types based on that, it's just really imprecise

Which would make bone trident equal to bone dagger in damage per hit

[torpid sluice]

Or the first hit does about a fourth of the second hit???

The first hit is the black part and the second hit is the orange part, I overlayed multiple images from before certain hits and cropped the image to match the health before the combo, the health lost after the first hit, and after the second hit

Ok, I have a lot of data on red worker ants, I'm gonna start ratios now which should be where I find something

Wait

Even if punching damage is one of the types, wouldn't ratios still work for telling us the most effective weapon to use?

If all the results for a certain bug are skewed by the same amount then wouldn't the ratios still be fine?

At that point it's just figuring out each weapons DPS accounting for stamina usage and we should have the best weapons for each bug

WAIT

I just realized player built structures probably don't have damage type resistances because why would that be coded in

Ok, that's huge possibly

How many hits to destroy x wall

Good thing I have a medium world with a lot of everything

Oh yeah, this is something

30 punches for grass wall, 50 for stem wall, 100 for mushroom brick wall, 45 for reinforced grass wall

Can walls be poisoned? This might be even more perfect than I thought it would be

THEY ARE IMMUNE TO POISON

Larva blade destroys a mushroom wall in 90 hits

This is amazing, I think I just figured out how to find exact damage values for things

I'll post my results when I'm done, if I don't finish today I'll post my progress

[torpid sluice]

The tier 1 of weapons goes like this for mushroom brick walls, using only the first hit of combos:

Punching: 100
Axe: 90
Hammer: 75
Club: 45
Dagger: 128-129
Spear: 100
Sword: 90

[torpid sluice]

Actually I can test for explosion

Done

From this we should be able to get any bug's resistances and weaknesses to weapon types

Including explosions, with some extra work

And because axe and daggers share a damage type I don't even need to bother with their odd numbers

Ok, time to test this with current data

[boreal birch]

I just updated my spreadsheet with Into the Wood base damage and upgrade damage amounts. Unless I missed something there is no way to test each of the 5 damage types using weapons that have no perks that could affect the results such as +Crit Chance and +Poison.

While the in game display may show the damage amounts are the same they are rounded to show the nearest bar or half bar. I tried to get 5 weapons, one of each type, to the same damage amount and while they looked the same they were not because of rounding in the UI.

[torpid sluice]

Excel is so annoying with changing regular numbers into dates

[scarlet pumice]

More effort, or Thiever eat you!

[scarlet pumice]

[torpid sluice]

Excel is annoying me, guess I'll use paper

[boreal birch]

Looking at all the weapons here's the Damage Nerfs made in the Into the Wood Update:

Mighty Upgrade Path to L9 vs Hot and Hazy L7

Pebblet Hammer: -38.89%
Insect Hammer: -26.67%
Salt Morningstar: -23.61%
Antlion Greatsword: -17.50%
All Other Weapon: -8.33%

Fresh/Salty/Spicy Upgrade Path to L9 vs Hot and Hazy L7

Pebblet Hammer: -43.14%
Insect Hammer: -31.76%
Antlion Greatsword: -23.24%
All Other Weapons: -14.71%
Club of the Mother Demon: -6.95%

Also of note Hammer Stun was severely reduced for the Pebblet Hammer (-45.45%) and Insect Hammer (-52.63%). Stun for the Salt Morningstar (-26.67%) and Mosquito Needle (-50.00%) were also reduced.

[torpid sluice]

From my math, red worker ants are weak to axe and spear and resistant towards hammer and club

The daggers gave a really weird number though, it should be equal to axe but isn't even close

I'll try multiplying the fractions differently

[boreal birch]

Attack speed was also reduced for the Mint Mace, COTMD, Antlion Greatsword, Ant Club and Spiky Sprig but since AS is not linear it's hard to know the exact nerf

[boreal birch]

Unless it's been changed Red Worker Ants are only weak to stabbing (spears, arrows, Mosquito Needle)

[boreal birch]

Which weapons are you using, what level are they and do you have any mutations or other affects active (i.e. meals, smoothies, armor)

[torpid sluice]

In using all tier 1 weapons so pebblet, level 0, no mutations active

No armor, meals, or smoothies that affect damage either, just the firefly hat, termite armor, and aphid slippers

[boreal birch]

Pebblet Dagger has 0.5 base damage and the others are 1.0

Also daggers do chopping damage which is the same as the axe so there's no reason to test both

[torpid sluice]

Yeah, but I did something wrong because they don't match

Axe got 1.11 and dagger got 0.853

[boreal birch]

How are you getting those numbers?

a level 9 Mighty Pebblet Dagger only does 0.825

[torpid sluice]

I got one set of fractions by hits to destroy a mushroom brick wall in relation to punching, another by hits to kill a red worker ant compared to punching, and divided brick wall by worker ant

[boreal birch]

Why are you doing that? The base damage is in the UI and is assumed to be accurate.

They might be rounding them but that would seem very silly.

[torpid sluice]

I've just always heard about how the UI bars weren't precise, so I tested it myself

[boreal birch]

They are not precise after upgrading. They round to the nearest bar or half bar. The base amounts should be accurate.

[torpid sluice]

This is what I got by hitting the mushroom brick walls

[boreal birch]

Do walls take extra damage from certain damage types? Why not just hit a grass wall as it will take far fewer hits?

Without knowing if walls take extra damage from specific damage types there is no way to know if your numbers mean anything.

[torpid sluice]

I assumed the devs would not have put in damage resistances for walls, especially after seeing the lack of decimals for the tier ones other than dagger

I may be wrong though

[boreal birch]

If the plan is to add base raids back in they would almost surely have different walls have different resistances

[torpid sluice]

They don't take poison damage, which was nice for testing too

I'll test all weapon types on all wall types later then

[boreal birch]

Test on Orb Weaver Jr. They and Meaty Gnats were the only two bugs in the game prior to this update that had no weakness or resistance to any weapon damage type from my testing.

[torpid sluice]

Ok, I'll remember that

Thank you

Wait, if the damage of level 0 weapons is accurate then I can just

Not even bother with comparing to punches

[vital moth]

What about termite king?

[pseudo topaz]

Same as regular termites

[vital moth]

Ok

[fickle fern]

And weapons?

[torpid sluice]

Not tested

Bestiary has apparently been confirmed at some point so nobody has bothered to test weapons so far

I'm just gonna use a T3 sword on everything and when it seems to be doing little damage I'll switch to a club or whatever

[muted cloak]

No need to test for weapons if I only use shield and fist

[pseudo topaz]

i think mediocre milton has a vedio on dat

[pseudo topaz]

exploding fist!

[tired glen]

tussle of thy truffle

[muted cloak]

Truffle tussle vs the Black Sox beetle was a fun one, even the explosions only do a portion of damage

[pseudo topaz]

I really want an infected shield that does that same thing but on perfect block 30 percent of the time

It would make a good tier 3 shield

[torpid sluice]

Me on my way to find the exact values of bug health

[mossy sable]

wat

[pseudo topaz]

you cant

[torpid sluice]

Yeah I gave up

[boreal birch]

BTW sad to say that Orb Weaver Jr now have weakness/resistance so they can't be tested against like I mentioned a few days ago.

Updated after re-testing every insect in the game after the Into the Wood update:

Weapon Damage type is omitted because I can't test them with 100% accuracy. I posted a video on my YT channel explaining all the changes if you want to watch it.

[boreal birch]

Updated to fix a typo

[fast niche]

hey stop being archived pls

[torpid sluice]

👆