stable finch
Doing the thread thing. Link to Moxfield Profile: https://moxfield.com/users/MagicTheBlabbering
Unless stated otherwise, assume I'm usually planning for B2 and staying relatively budget.
-# Also forgive me ahead of time if I'm reluctant on cuts, especially in my older decks. I'm bad sometimes at wanting to see the best in cards. 😅
Opening the thread thinking maybe I'll try get some more use out of it in the future. For now, I'll start off with two options:
Easy:
Magar - https://moxfield.com/decks/VEhwG3A_t02_JzkbtMjaEw
Deck's mostly running well, just looking for cuts. Thinking about adding in the cards in "Sideboard" and maybe swapping in a couple other fun cards from the Maybeboard.
Moderate:
Phenax - https://moxfield.com/decks/AykKvvfxCU-34gYlRVRXgQ
My longest tenured deck. I like it, but also feel like I run into a few too many games where I stall out or can't seem to find a good opening hand. Looking for advice to smooth it out. Open to potential specific cuts and/or some more X less Y type advice.
-# If you say less graveyard hate, 1) you're wrong 2) ok fine maybe ;P
stable finch
🦗
velvet bloom
No [[freed from the real]]?
crisp marshBOT
Enchantment — Aura
Enchant creature
: Tap enchanted creature.
: Untap enchanted creature.
When a strong mind moves, form and energy shift to heed it.
stable finch
Didn't even know about it tbh. Lol
But also I know I never tuned it specifically to Phenax as much as I could since it's gone through at least 3 other commanders.
velvet bloom
[[Patirs seal]]
crisp marshBOT
velvet bloom
[[Patriar's Seal]]
crisp marshBOT
Artifact
: Add one mana of any color.
, : Untap target legendary creature you control.
Only a fool ignores a letter bearing the official mark of a patriar family.
velvet bloom
[[fatestitcher]]
crisp marshBOT
Creature — Zombie Wizard
: You may tap or untap another target permanent.
Unearth (: Return this card from your graveyard to the battlefield. It gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step or if it would leave the battlefield. Unearth only as a sorcery.)
1/2
stable finch
Though they aren't bad, for Phenax, I'm more looking for direction than individual card recs.
-# Though I suspect the answer might actually just be lean into Phenax more and/or curve out better with creatures.
Thus, more likely looking for broader scale suggestions or potential cuts. I maybe have some in mind, but seeing what others think. Plus some of the cards I think I should probably cut, I just like and don't have another deck to put them in. 😔 lol
velvet bloom
I mean at a certain point in deck building cards you like > cards that are “better” for a deck
(That’s the greater than sign right? I’m a magic player so math isn’t my strong suit)
stable finch
True, though cards I like could theoretically make their way to better fitting decks.
crisp lodge
frog
stable finch
🐸 Turn to Frog was in the very first iteration of the deck actually, but irrelevant to discussion now.
-# rippet </3 At least I have Amphibian Downpour now
stable finch
Opening the thread thinking maybe I'll try get some more use out of it in the fu...
This for now.
velvet bloom
Though they aren't bad, for Phenax, I'm more looking for direction than individu...
This too
stable finch
Easy option suggest some cuts for Magar.
More thought, how to make Phenax play a little smoother and maybe get better opening hands.
velvet bloom
Probably should have turned the ping off, sorry!
Speaking about the thread itself sometimes I’ve just added a land and that helped
stable finch
-# All good. If I have the thread open already, I don't even get pinged anyways.
velvet bloom
Oh right lol
crisp lodge
blab i got a question
you're trying to find a slot for vona's hunger
and far be it from me to question anything
why are we on intro to annihilation and not [[zuko's exile]]
crisp marshBOT
Instant — Lesson
Exile target artifact, creature, or enchantment. Its controller creates a Clue token. (It's an artifact with "
, Sacrifice this token: Draw a card.")
As punishment for his disobedience, Zuko was banished and sent to capture the Avatar. Only then could he return home with his honor.
crisp lodge
does the ability to hit battles/planeswalkers matter to you? because otherwise this is just better
stable finch
It came up the other day in philosophy chat. Didn't know it got printed, and I'll have to get one. 👍
velvet bloom
“Oh I didn’t know that was a thing” happened a lot for me when I was new to the game
It still happens occasionally
stable finch
The instant speed alone is worth losing hitting planeswalkers.
crisp lodge
yeah
not to mention you dont actually give them a card
you make them lose 2 mana for a card which is so huge
velvet bloom
And they lose their honor
stable finch
I just noticed Phenax is at 101 cards and now I'm going to have to flip through the deck to find what's not supposed to be there. 😡
crisp lodge
blab have you just tested vona's over soul shatter
like, put it in for a few games, see how you like it when you draw it, etc.
that's really what i'd do when i'm looking at an edict specifically, the difference between edicts is mostly just vibes
stable finch
I haven't tried it, but it did cross my mind how they might be fighting for the same spot. I'm always slightly hesitant on edicts with the opponent's choice.
crisp lodge
i'd just test it out, worst case scenario it sucks and then you know that
velvet bloom
I haven't tried it, but it did cross my mind how they might be fighting for the ...
If they only have one creature they only have one choice
crisp lodge
here's my opinion for the other one
it is probably better in the deck than bituminous blast
but actually i think ignite probably feels worse for you to play
one of the things i dont love about it is this deck really, really wants to put cards into the graveyard for magar
and ignite can just hit like, hit the motherlode volcanic vision call forth the tempest
and you're suddenly in a really bad situation
it'll be a really good source of draw but it's also probably going to lead to you getting flips that make the game a lot harder for you, i hope that makes sense
stable finch
Hitting all 3 at once would be unfortuante though unlikely. lol
Do you know about the Ignite interaction with Magar?
I've been lead to believe that reanimated spells being copied technically count as being cast from the graveyard.
crisp lodge
i do not believe that's how it works in this situation because you're creating a copy of the card and then casting it
and that copy is not in the graveyard
stable finch
Tbf, I have seen some conflicting thoughts on the matter, but I thought it settled the way I'm saying. I only want to run it if that's the case.
crisp lodge
if it works that way then i think probably test it over bituminous
i dont actually know that it's better though, even with that
stable finch
I can admit there's a little bit of wanting to play it for the novelty if it does.
crisp lodge
Alright, i've checked with the judge homie
good news, it does
this game is shit actually
stable finch
Fwiw, I think it would be better than Void Maw which is also in mostly for the novelty though almost always just goes to waste as a fat 6 drop I don't want to deal with.
😂
crisp lodge
you can test it over any number of things
If anyone ever asks you for the ruling, it's 707.12, 707.14, and 608.2h
it makes no sense to me and truly magar is beyond cursed
he will not see the light of valhalla
i actually think you're right though, drop void maw, put in ignite, and then test vona's hunger over soul shatter
there's your answers for those two
stable finch
Sounds good. 👍
crisp lodge
onto phenax
you will have to forgive me i have not played a mill deck that wasn't hope in like
Six Million Years
you're looking to fix your openers
stable finch
All good. I suspect the answer is ||just make some cuts and throw in more creatures to curve out better||, but I thought I should see if others thought differently. On one hand I like having it as a little lower powered deck, even among my B2s, but on the other I mostly play against stronger decks anyways. And even if I don't power up, there's definitely room to smooth it out.
crisp lodge
where is our copy of Raul
stable finch
I don't mill myself
crisp lodge
holy shit yeah you're not on anything that mills you
i was gonna say, that card fixes openers
i have a theory here and i want you to hear me out
have you tried [[jeweled amulet]]
crisp marshBOT
Artifact
, : Put a charge counter on this artifact. Note the type of mana spent to pay this activation cost. Activate only if there are no charge counters on this artifact.
, Remove a charge counter from this artifact: Add one mana of this artifact's last noted type.
crisp lodge
this deck looks like you have a lot of turns where you aren't really spending all of your mana, especially t1 t2
and with a 5 cmc commander that you really want in play, jeweled amulet is a pretty good way to get to that since your colors don't really get to ramp much
stable finch
this deck looks like you have a lot of turns where you aren't really spending al...
Correct.
I've only tried Jeweled Amulet in my proliterate deck, but I could maybe see it.
-# The price spike it's had over the last few years is gross though.
crisp lodge
i mean, it's really good, and people are finally realizing that
i would also weirdly suggest also running springleaf drum and hedron crab
having some things to help get some of your more important cards out early seems like a really good way for you to succeed, at least imo
also, have you tried [[neerdiv]]
crisp marshBOT
crisp lodge
if not, and if you end up putting springleaf drum and hedron crab in, she might be worth a try
stable finch
Jumpstart cards aren't real. I swear I've never seen them in my life. lol It would almost never get bigger though.
crisp lodge
or actually you could even go with unctus
yeah, jumpstart cards are pretty fake
but neerdiv seems pretty good in this deck that already wants to tap creatures to mill
and by adding in springleaf drum (and maybe even paradise mantle) you give yourself more opportunities to do that, too
while smoothing out those early plays
[[unctus grand metatect]] might be better than neerdiv numerically since we're not activating things from our graveyard or casting flashback spells
crisp marshBOT
Legendary Artifact Creature — Phyrexian Vedalken
Other blue creatures you control have "Whenever this creature becomes tapped, draw a card, then discard a card."
Other artifact creatures you control get +1/+1.
: Until end of turn, target creature you control becomes a blue artifact in addition to its other colors and types. Activate only as a sorcery. ( can be paid with either or 2 life.)
2/4
crisp lodge
mill the same amount of cards, gives you some card selection, and weirdly even boosts the cybercontroller tokens (not relevant but might come up)
stable finch
Springleaf feels weird just because I want to be tapping for mill instead when possible. And sometimes I just don't have the creatures to spare anyways. But I guess there's usually summoning sickness too.
crisp lodge
sorry i am kinda just throwing cardnames at you but these are things i'd be testing if i was struggling with my early draws feeling weird
i mean totally fair, im just looking at ways people typically smooth out early draws
crazy thought, have you considered nightscape familiar?
stable finch
Not in over 10 years 😅
crisp lodge
you're not really a storm list but it is just an early creature that would discount most of the creatures in your list
as well as a HUGE amount of your noncreatures
like this deck is 66% blue and almost all of your blue cards have generic cost
stable finch
Wow it really is that steep. Just looking at it feels like there's a lot more B than that.
crisp lodge
yeah
again if it wasn't that much of a difference i wouldn't bother but
nightscape familiar is legitimately discounting fuckin everything lmao
and is again an early play you can use with like, paradise mantle or springleaf drum to push even harder into phenax
hell, t1 springleaf t2 nightscape is a t3 phenax
stable finch
Obviously wouldn't happen every game, but that is an interesting thought. 🤔
Do you have your eye on anything I should be looking to yank out?
crisp lodge
i'm not really all that big on intruder alarm, i think there's a big chance you just let someone else go off and kill you
but it's like not bad
stable finch
Really? I think that's the one card that almost singehandedly pushes it up a power level at times. lol
crisp lodge
i mean it's intruder alarm so like
it's a great card, and at the end of the day it is a combo piece
but sometimes that means it's a combo piece for other people too lmao
our creature count is low and while we're boosting it here, it might be worth paying attention to how that affects intruder alarm for you
im not saying to cut it rn but definitely keep an eye on it
stable finch
I just noticed Phenax is at 101 cards and now I'm going to have to flip through ...
Moxfield: 8 Island, 7 Swamp
Paper: 9 Island, 6 Swamp
Net difference 0 cards. 😡
crisp lodge
i would also go down a land or two to 38ish
stable finch
our creature count is **low** and while we're boosting it here, it might be wort...
I did say I think I need more creatures, but is 18 bold text low? lol
A few cards also create more creatures.
crisp lodge
not here saying "cut a bunch of lands for slots" but the deck caps out at 6cmc and wants to play a slower game, you could definitely handle 38
it is pretty low for intruder alarm
intruder alarm decks are usually running literally zero or in the mid-20s
which is why i was concerned that you might actually end up locking yourself out of being able to use phenax from time to time
and relying on opponents to sort that out for you seems inconsistent
stable finch
> Insert the note taking emoji I think you use sometimes
crisp lodge
again, just something to keep an eye on
i do think death in heaven, despite me literally just saying you don't have enough creatures for intruder alarm, is probably not very good
or rather, the effect is fine but your 4cmc slot is fucking packed
stable finch
Yeah...
crisp lodge
and you want to get this down as early as possible
now the same goes for psychic possession but actually i think ancestral recall every turn is pretty good
you will hear no complaints from me on that one
4cmc draw 3 cards every turn is like, not just reasonable, it's probably the best thing you can spend 4 mana on in this deck rn
so that's the kind of baseline you're competing against with 4 cmc cards
obviously same goes for struggle for project purity, it has the same text
or rather, it's worse, but it is still 4 cmc ancestral recall every turn
you just get them all at once and aren't going up on card advantage against the table
but your card quality is actually pretty high for b2 so you're probably getting more out of draw 3 than your opponents are collectively getting from draw 1
stable finch
It's kind of funny to hear that because I think raw card quality is often where I get beat, but as mentioned, I do see myself as doing a lot of trying to punch up.
crisp lodge
sorry im just going off on things here
yeah if you're punching into b3 you will get outvalued
stable finch
And as such I think a lot about getting the most X per card.
crisp lodge
and those are the matches where i would probably put project purity on 2nd mode
instead of 1st
project purity is a powerful card but it gets the most value when you drawing 4 cards per turn cycle beats your opponents collectively drawing 6
and if your opponents are playing b3 decks and thus have higher card quality that just doesnt work out
mathematically
stable finch
Makes sense
On a similar note, it's why Psychic Possession tends to work well. If someone's playing better card advantage, I can just leech and it never lowers my own draws.
crisp lodge
i also know this is a crazy thing but since we're not on reanimate at all, i would consider something like toxic deluge over life's finale; it doenst have to be exactly toxic deluge but something more efficient than 6 mana might do you good
yeah exactly
might even be worth running something like [[the unagi of kyoshi island]] at some point
crisp marshBOT
Legendary Creature — Serpent
Flash
Ward—Waterbend 
. (Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, counter it unless that player pays . They can tap their artifacts and creatures to help. Each one pays for .)
Whenever an opponent draws their second card each turn, you draw two cards.
5/5
crisp lodge
or having a copy just in case you're at a table and they're like "we're playing b3" to slot in
just something to think about, not a legitimate suggestion for this list as it stands
stable finch
📝
crisp lodge
im gonna be real with you i actually hate thought vessel
but i was very pleasantly surprised to not see reliquary tower
stable finch
I cut recently when I got new utility lands that did more.
crisp lodge
i think it just rarely does anything, at least imo
stable finch
If Thought Vessel was 3 mana, it'd be gone.
crisp lodge
i dont remember if we have access to a better 2 mana rock than vessel
maybe that's your springleaf drum slot
or paradise mantle, or whatever
stable finch
I definitely thought that as soon as you said cut it. lol Looking at cmc <=2 rocks now
crisp lodge
similarly there's moonsnare prototype
which is worse than drum or mantle, obviously, but has the benefit of being removal
stable finch
I do like the sound of versatile rock/removal. And it even goes to top/bottom of library? 👀
crisp lodge
yeah
i think it's a good slot-in
maybe better actually than paradise mantle would be
i dont think it beats springleaf drum but mantle has the issue of painting the world's largest target on your ruin crab's back
and this is to be avoided
stable finch
Oh and I'm prooobably not gonna move in Hedron Crab, but I do have a Hedron Crab playmat.
🦀
crisp lodge
if you dont want hedron crab i would find another 1 drop
stable finch
I've also definitely thought about brewing Red Death. lol
crisp marshBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Peasant Ally
Whenever Gran-Gran becomes tapped, draw a card, then discard a card.
Noncreature spells you cast cost less to cast as long as there are three or more Lesson cards in your graveyard.
"It's been so long since I've had hope, but you brought it back to life."
1/2
crisp lodge
please ignore the bottom text we do not care about it, we only care that she is a 1/1 that loots when you tap her
stable finch
Nah, gotta add in that Lesson package. ;P
crisp marshBOT
crisp lodge
is an option
stable finch
Not a 1 drop, but I do have Caelorna lurking in my binder.
stable finch
https://scryfall.com/card/znr/70/merfolk-windrobber
Not bad
crisp lodge
yeah, not incredible but it's not nothing
weirdly i think caelorna is an okay option
[[phantasmal shieldback]] is also not bad
crisp marshBOT
stable finch
Oh yeah, and I missed replying to it before, I definitely agree Toxic Deluge would be better. My one copy is already in use, but I wouldn't be entirely opposed to switching it over. Fwiw, I was probably going to swap out Life's Finale for [[Singularity Rupture]] if I got my hands on one.
crisp marshBOT
crisp lodge
i do think rupture is leaps-and-bounds better
stable finch
Life's Finale has been in the deck longer than a lot of the cards we've named have existed. lol
crisp lodge
haha
stable finch
This can all be traced to my very first EDH deck from 2013.
crisp lodge
i can definitely tell, it looks very tuned to your specific playstyle
oh, another good option is [[siren stormtamer]]
crisp marshBOT
Creature — Siren Pirate Wizard
Flying
, Sacrifice this creature: Counter target spell or ability that targets you or a creature you control.
He's the calm that hides the coming storm.
1/1
crisp lodge
again we do just kinda want a 1 mana creature in that space if we aren't putting hedron crab in
so there's a lot of great options
stable finch
i can definitely tell, it looks very tuned to your specific playstyle
I choose to take this as a compliment. :P
crisp lodge
wait actually hold
stable finch
Mhm. I don't even know a lot of these you're naming, so it's helpful.
crisp lodge
[[tinybones the pickpocket]] final answer actually
crisp marshBOT
crisp lodge
there's your 1 drop
this definitely beats anything else i've mentioned so far
with the exception of hedron crab
scales really well into the lategame, in the earlygame you're totally fine just tapping it to springleaf drum or moonsnare prototype
stable finch
Hedron Crab is my boy, but I always felt he didn't mill quite enough.
And of course that's the only thing he does.
stable finch
Yep
crisp lodge
so that those 1 drops actually have a purpose that isnt just milling a few cards
okay sorry back to cuts
lemme look and see if anything else obviously stands out
stable finch
Ha, you're good. Like I said, most of these cards are new to me. Or like Tinybones where I never thought of them for me.
crisp lodge
i think into the roil is probably worse than into the floodmaw, even here
we dont have a ton of ramp so 4 mana to draw a card is a lot
[[into the floodmaw]]
crisp marshBOT
crisp lodge
it might be tryhard removal but it is just a good card overall
stable finch
In addition to cards that attest to my playstyle, there are also cards like Roil and Life's Finale that just straight up point to the age of the deck. lol
crisp lodge
yeah ive noticed
stable finch
Flood Maw seems great. Gifting a Fish is a total non issue.
crisp marshBOT
crisp lodge
it does hit you, but it is a mill bounce
i went to check how much floodmaw was so i wasnt suggesting $900 cards and i forgot it was an uncommon lmao
bloomburrow was a real set
haters will tell you memory lapse is bad but actually i think that's one of the few interactive spells you've got here that should probably never leave the deck
stable finch
i went to check how much floodmaw was so i wasnt suggesting $900 cards and i for...
Yeah, I've been checking a couple of these. Tinybones is $5, Floodmaw is $2.
Memory Lapse is neat. I went through through my decks awhile back trying to add more on-theme cards for the veggies and that seemed great for Phenax. I probably straight replaced Counterspell.
crisp lodge
oh, another consideration, [[unlicensed hearse]]
crisp marshBOT
Artifact — Vehicle
: Exile up to two target cards from a single graveyard.
Unlicensed Hearse's power and toughness are each equal to the number of cards exiled with it.
Crew 2
*/*
crisp lodge
yes, this requires you to tap a creature to crew, but you've got an excess of gravehate and this one can theoretically be a 10/10 for phenax milling
or bigger
i do just think this is probably stronger here, specifically, than relic of progenitus
stable finch
You know me, I do like a good strong hate the hecking graveyards.
crisp lodge
yeah
stable finch
I think I picked one up for Myrkul and never used it...
crisp lodge
i do think we've got maybe a bit too much but it's like fine
well, good news, i think hearse is cracked here
your games are trying to go long, and if you play it on t2 you're very realistically looking at a 6/6 the turn phenax comes down
that can then tap to mill 6 cards
stable finch
Graveyard Hate(12)
Whatever could you mean?
crisp marshBOT
stable finch
$9
crisp lodge
holy fuck why is it a tenner now
stable finch
Stonks Up
crisp lodge
i hate reality this is an uncommon
well, whenever you can pick one up, that's an easy swap
stable finch
There's a Strixhaven Mystical Archive of it on the way too for $20 (preorder price).
crisp lodge
stock up is kind of incredible
and also costs you a lot less in resources and consideration than dig through time
between it and [[consult the star charts]] i think they outright replace dig through time in almost every deck that would be running it
crisp marshBOT
Instant
Kicker (You may pay an additional as you cast this spell.)
Look at the top X cards of your library, where X is the number of lands you control. Put one of those cards into your hand. If this spell was kicked, put two of those cards into your hand instead. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.
crisp lodge
consult might be better for you, but you're not really trying to put a ton of lands into play
whereas i know stock up is a straight upgrade
stable finch
Huh, Dig Through Time is super good draw, right?
Ok, I just looked and it is still banned in other formats at least. I'm not totally out of touch on it. lol
crisp lodge
haha yeah for some reason it's still banned in modern
even though stock up is legal in that format
stable finch
Banned in Modern and Legacy and Vintage restricted
crisp lodge
it'll get unbanned soon, nobody's playing a better card so i can't see it staying there forever
legacy it's there for other reasons
and vintage, similarly
but also, legacy's playing stock up
LMAO
and sometimes consult
shit's crazy
stable finch
Consult is $5 too. Booo
crisp lodge
but yeah, if you were playing more self-mill stuff or stuff that just incidentally hits you too, maybe dig is worth it
stable finch
but yeah, if you were playing more self-mill stuff or stuff that just incidental...
Definitely makes sense.
crisp lodge
but as it stands you have very little of that so "if you can get a copy of stock up or consult the star charts just replace it" is my take
and i think you'll be really happy with either, they're both very powerful cards
and feel really good to cast
first time i cast stock up i was like "3 mana for a draw 2 is kinda cringe" and then it resolved and actually it was 3 mana draw 5
because i got the best cards out of the top 5
i forgot, temporarily, how good dig through time is
stable finch
lol
crisp lodge
otherwise though this looks really solid
as i said the only other things i'd be cutting are a couple of lands for space
stable finch
Turning a land or two into 1 drops and upgrading a couple cards seems like a good start.
crisp lodge
yep
and then you can test from there, see what you like, and ping me if you need help
stable finch
Moxfield: 8 Island, 7 Swamp
Paper: 9 Island, 6 Swamp
Net difference 0 cards. 😡
Consuming Aberration is not the deck. Only took sorting the whole deck, but we found it.
crisp lodge
what do you MEAN
hey we gotta fix that homie 😠
i think that card is objectively better than mirelurk queen at least
stable finch
I didn't see it in my binder just now either. Where the heck
I opened that in my Gatecrash prerelease kit lol
crisp lodge
oh, i have another suggestion actually
this one doesnt cut mana cost it's just a personal one
i need to look for the name of the card
[[overcharged amalgam]] i think is usually going to be better for you than fear of impostors
crisp marshBOT
stable finch
and then you can test from there, see what you like, and ping me if you need hel...
I got distracted by finally finding the card, but thanks so far! :)
crisp lodge
i dont think it's a 1:1 replacement or anything but it's probably worth testing if you can get a copy
stable finch
1 more mana but Flying (if I don't have have to sac it) and hits activated and triggered abilities. Hmm
crisp lodge
yeah, and doesnt give your opponent the best of the top 2 cards of their deck
like theoretically that is mill but not in any way that really matters
whereas i think overcharged is just an insanely powerful card in general
even if you have to self-exploit it it's a minor upcharge on a voidslime
and if you can exploit a zombie token it's just kinda nutty
stable finch
yeah, and doesnt give your opponent the best of the top 2 cards of their deck
Ideally it blanks 1 card, but yeah.
stable finch
Yep, thanks again! I haven't been playing too much lately because reasons but maybe soon.
crisp lodge
hopefully 