arctic crane
Hey guys, super new to commander, but I'm looking for any feedback/suggestions for this 5c Human list I'm brewing.
Play group's house rules: 3 game changers max, no extra turns, no infinite combos, max 3 board wipes, no land destruction, no dedicated stax decks, no tutors other than mana ramp.
https://moxfield.com/decks/ziSf1R1AEUm6Zp1xiCQqEA
tropic halo
Biggest thing I see is very few lands
I would go up to at least 36 or 37
Also not very much ramp
Even counting artifacts you have 7 total ramp sources
And one is lotus petal which is only a one time use
And mox amber won’t always get you what you need
I’d say at least 9 is solid
With 5 color either some artifacts that tap for anything or spells like cultivate/kodama’s reach, or farseek
47 creatures is also a shit ton, even for a creature focused deck
And make sure you have enough card draw to stay afloat
candid bronze
47 creatures is also a shit ton, even for a creature focused deck
And make sure ...
Wait holy I didn’t even see the 47 creatures
tender elm
47 creatures is also a shit ton, even for a creature focused deck
And make sure ...
Tbh if you can do something with a human you might as well prioritize that, if anything it just helps you stay on theme with it
Idc how many creatures you have, there’s no requirement for a particular distribution of card types
Other than, like, a certain amount for a creature typal deck
candid bronze
There isn’t but also not a lot of room for removal
tender elm
Humans have a shocking amount if removal tied to them
arctic crane
Yeah, for sure about the lands (again, very new to brewing here) but theme is super important for the paly group. I want it to be string and do its thing, but is a causal way.
tender elm
Especially if you also count snappy, Lier, and [[katilda and lier]]
wicked sirenBOT
tender elm
Love katilda and lier bc they turn every human into a snappy lol
candid bronze
How many game changers does he have I’m on my phone
haughty axle
Regarding the low land count, I think it would do a ton of good if you added MDFCs to supplement the lands.
arctic crane
3 game changers
candid bronze
0 board wipes ?
tender elm
How many game changers does he have I’m on my phone
Moxfield says on the site
3 game changers
arctic crane
Cyclonic rift, the one ring, and Notion Thief
candid bronze
It’s cause I’m in the discord site instead of an actual browser
tender elm
candid bronze
Do boardwipes count as a game changer?
tender elm
Click the “i”
tender elm
Do boardwipes count as a game changer?
No
candid bronze
He doesn’t have any board wipes that I see
tender elm
Cyc rift is just itself a gc
candid bronze
It is
tender elm
That’s a wipe
candid bronze
Besides cyclonic rift which isn’t per say a board wipe there are none
When I say wipe I mean kill board wipe
I like to have atleast 2 boardwipes idk different people different preferences
tender elm
Anyway, my recs for board wipes:
[[harsh mercy]]
[[kindred dominance]]
[[raise the palisade]]
[[austere command]]
tender elm
And for the reanimation, you’ve got [[patriarch’s bidding]]
wicked sirenBOT
haughty axle
[[Kindred Dominance]] and [[Raise the Palisade]] are probably some of your best board wipe options for a kindred deck
haughty axle
[[Final Showdown]] is a generically good one that I think is criminally underrated
wicked sirenBOT
Instant
Spree (Choose one or more additional costs.)
— All creatures lose all abilities until end of turn. — Choose a creature you control. It gains indestructible until end of turn.
— Destroy all creatures.
arctic crane
Do boardwipes count as a game changer?
Oh, final show down is SWEET!
tender elm
Yup
The other ones are expensive but I promise you they’re worth it
Ngl champion of the parish is so low impact
It’s gonna sound weird but I prefer [[torgal fine hound]] there
wicked sirenBOT
Legendary Creature — Wolf
Whenever you cast your first Human creature spell each turn, that creature enters with an additional +1/+1 counter on it for each Dog and/or Wolf you control.
: Add one mana of any color.
"Thank you, Torgal. For never giving up." —Clive Rosfield
2/2
candid bronze
And it’s on the cheaper side but also the other ones like kindred dominence are better if u can afford
tender elm
More ramp and plays REAL nice with humans
Extra counters
To synergize with your other counter stuff too
Samut is… fine?
Not great at 5 mv imo
Have you considered [[eowyn shieldmaiden]]
wicked sirenBOT
tender elm
And [[aragorn king of]]
wicked sirenBOT
candid bronze
@arctic crane how many of the cards in that deck list do u already have
tender elm
You’ve got like.. two subthemes going in this deck
candid bronze
https://scryfall.com/card/ltc/5/aragorn-king-of-gondor
There’s also [[aragorn the uniter]]
wicked sirenBOT
tender elm
Legendaries and +1/+1 counters
Might want to pick a lane there
(I’m saying to cut hardened scales)
arctic crane
<@422571123696336907> how many of the cards in that deck list do u already have
All of them
wicked sirenBOT
: Add one mana of any color.: Add one mana of any color."The Prismatic Bridge 
Legendary Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a creature or planeswalker card. Put that card onto the battlefield and the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.
Starnheim awaits.
wicked sirenBOT
candid bronze
Idk I feel like he’s great in legendary decks
Especially cause he’s another human
I might be just wrong tho
@tender elm what u think
tender elm
Yeah 100%
arctic crane
https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/203/jodah-the-unifier
Yeah, I thought about this guy for sure
tender elm
only issue is that Jodah is one of those cards
candid bronze
Cause Jodah if you play one creature you get two
candid bronze
only issue is that Jodah is one of *those* cards
He definitely is
tender elm
Like if you drop it it’s usually either an eye roll or an “ the games over ig”
candid bronze
Even if you only have him on the board for 1 or 2 casts he’s great
tender elm
Same as Craterhoof nowadays but he’s worse
tender elm
If you want a more story-driven experience with a more interesting ending I’d recommend staying away from jodah
candid bronze
lol
haughty axle
only issue is that Jodah is one of *those* cards
So is Kenrith IMO. This deck seems like it’s just meant to be very high power
tender elm
If you want bridge, boooooooo
tender elm
So is Kenrith IMO. This deck seems like it’s just meant to be very high power
Nah, Kenrith is just a good catch-all
For 5c humans
He’s the best 5c human
candid bronze
So is Kenrith IMO. This deck seems like it’s just meant to be very high power
Throw him in if you want it to be high power ((directed at rainfall
tender elm
Throw him in if you want it to be high power ((directed at rainfall
Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Power wise, yes jodah should 100% be in, otherwise best to keep him out
candid bronze
Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Power wise, yes jodah should 100% be in, otherwise...
Exactly
I personally love [[golos]] and Jodah
wicked sirenBOT
Legendary Artifact Creature — Scout
When Golos enters, you may search your library for a land card, put that card onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle.
: Exile the top three cards of your library. You may play them this turn without paying their mana costs.
3/5
tender elm
I like games to be a scrap for me, so I prefer to keep something that shoots me over the top like jodah out of my decks
haughty axle
Kenrith and Jodah are both generically good “soup” commanders. I’d eye roll at either of them
candid bronze
But golos is banned in commander right
tropic halo
Didn’t it get unbanned?
Or am I crazy
arctic crane
Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Power wise, yes jodah should 100% be in, otherwise...
Yeah, we will keep Jodah out then. This is meant to be sweet, not a steamroller.
candid bronze
I think he’s missing a [[the world tree]{
tender elm
Didn’t it get unbanned?
Or am I crazy
You’re crazy
tropic halo
Fair enough
candid bronze
a [[the world tree]]
wicked sirenBOT
Land
This land enters tapped.
: Add .
As long as you control six or more lands, lands you control have ": Add one mana of any color."
, , Sacrifice this land: Search your library for any number of God cards, put them onto the battlefield, then shuffle.
candid bronze
I feel like in a 5c deck either world tree or [[chromatic lantern]] is needed
wicked sirenBOT
Artifact
Lands you control have ": Add one mana of any color."
: Add one mana of any color.
Dimir mages put the lanterns to good use, creating shapeshifters and sleeper agents from mana foreign to them.
candid bronze
Or am I trippin?
haughty axle
A well built mana base should have all the color fixing you need
candid bronze
Ig I just been screwed too much pulling the wrong colors
haughty axle
And you shouldn’t be relying on a 1/99 card to color fix for you
candid bronze
Definitely not relying on it
But just as a optional pull yk
Ultimately if you aren’t running tutors you can’t rely on any cards
Ugh it actually hurts that golos is still banned
Looks like the highest cost mana wise is 6 so you don’t need a TON of mana fixing but yk ramp is always cool
arctic crane
Ok, changes so far:
Out:
Two board wipe max, so no need to add more for this play group. Just need one more land I guess. Anything else?
haughty axle
Ok, changes so far:
Out:
- Lotus petel
- Thalia, gardean of thrbain (feel like i...
35 lands is still a tad low. 37 is considered to be the “default” and you should really only go below that if you have an exceptionally low curve or exceptionally high amounts of ramp. This deck has neither.
But if you don’t want to lose out on utility, you can run MDFCs to supplement the land count. Granted, as far as land math goes, I wouldn’t count an MDFC as the same as an actual land. In my own decks, I like to run 34-35 lands and 5-6 MDFCs
[[Sink into Stupor]], [[Witch Enchanter]], [[Fell the Profane]], [[Boggart Trawler]], [[Revitalizing Repast]]
wicked sirenBOT
Soporific Springs
Land
As this land enters, you may pay 3 life. If you don't, it enters tapped.
: Add .
Desperate travelers journey from across Kamigawa, drawn by rumors of relief from all their troubles.
Witch-Blessed Meadow
Land
As this land enters, you may pay 3 life. If you don't, it enters tapped.
: Add .
"Ghrin-Danu will not let her people go hungry." —Katilda, Dawnhart Prime
Fell Mire
Land
As this land enters, you may pay 3 life. If you don't, it enters tapped.
: Add .
"The Nethermire is all the salvation you deserve." —Aryel, knight of Windgrace
Boggart Bog
Land
As this land enters, you may pay 3 life. If you don't, it enters tapped.
: Add .
A boggart warren is usually located in a place rich with sensations... good and bad.
Old-Growth Grove
Land
This land enters tapped.
: Add or .
The most potent elvish tonics and potions are brewed from the trees containing their imprisoned gods, the Einir.
haughty axle
Just a few examples
candid bronze
35 lands is still a tad low. 37 is considered to be the “default” and you should...
Ok I sound like a noob but what is mdfcs
arctic crane
Appreciated!
haughty axle
Ok I sound like a noob but what is mdfcs
Modal Dual Face Card
arctic crane
Modal Dule face Cards
candid bronze
Ohhh
arctic crane
lol
haughty axle
Meaning a card with two sides, and you can play either side, instead of relying on an effect to transform it
So these are all spells on one side and lands on the other. You get to pick which side to use
haughty axle
That is an DFC but it’s not an MDFC. You can’t play the land side of that card from your hand
candid bronze
Or am I thinking of the wrong type of thing
Ohhh
Gotcha I’m actually stupid my bad
I know what u mean now
The instant/land cards generally like one side is an instant and the other is a land
And you pick which side u play
haughty axle
Yep, but it could be an instant, sorcery, creature, whatever.
haughty axle
I don’t know sets, so I have no idea. Most of the best ones are from Modern Horizons 3 though
wicked sirenBOT
: Add .Lavaglide Pathway
Land
: Add .
"Don't fear the heat. Just let it lift you up." —Amandi, kitesail expert
candid bronze
Ig instead you could just run dual lands
haughty axle
If the goal was just color fixing, then sure, but those are generally worse than a dual land. MDFCs are used because of their versatility. If you’re mana flooded, then it’s a spell you can cast for value. If you’re mana screwed then it’s a land
candid bronze
Yeahh
arctic crane
Don't wanna shell out for duel lands and I don't play with proxies. Leaning a bit on the fetchable triomes.
haughty axle
Sorry, when I said “dual land” I meant any land that taps for more than 1 color of mana. So I was counting shocks and pains and stuff like that.
But we were getting off topic anyways
Fetchable triomes are ok, but they all enter tapped. You don’t want to over rely on them and lose tempo because of it
Shock lands are often better since they can enter untapped even when you fetch them
arctic crane
I like games to be a scrap for me, so I prefer to keep something that shoots me ...
Right, I think I'm running every shock but Steam Vents already as its my two least needed colors. But might just add that onver Triome number five.
haughty axle
You could also consider a few of the surveil lands, since they are also fetchable, but they also enter tapped so it’s partially the same issue. I guess that comes down to whether you value the 3rd color or the effect when it enters
arctic crane
I love a good survail land in Modern, but I didn't see many lists run them in EDH, so I though maybe that effect wasn't ass good here. I'm 5c, so I do like having all my colors, but the deck is largely White Green, so as long as I have those at first I'm largely solid.
haughty axle
Surveil lands are extremely good in commander, but they are expensive. It’s not common to build a deck with no budget.
arctic crane
Oh, so that's the bottle neck. Sweet, I'm gonna add some of those in, then!
tender elm
Those are mostly in zendikar rising right?
That and Modern Horizons 3
haughty axle
On a similar note, how is your deck looking on GY recursion? I haven’t gone through all the effects of the creatures you’re running. But there are a lot of humans that can help you pull stuff out of the GY. Like [[Archpriest of Shadows]], [[Eternal Witness]], and [[Timeless Witness]]
wicked sirenBOT
Creature — Human Shaman
When this creature enters, return target card from your graveyard to your hand.
Eternalize 
(, Exile this card from your graveyard: Create a token that's a copy of it, except it's a 4/4 black Zombie Human Shaman with no mana cost. Eternalize only as a sorcery.)
2/1
tender elm
You’ve got fetches, shocks, triomes, and surveils from playing modern surely. you’ve got a really good mana base
arctic crane
Oh yeah, mana is sorted. I already own like 95% of this list.
tender elm
There’s a million and a half things to add from that too that are cheap like check lands (see isolated chapel for example) and the Tango Lands (see prairie stream)
arctic crane
Sorry, its almost 1am in Japan, so I need to rest, but I'll catch back up in the morning!
haughty axle
There’s a million and a half things to add from that too that are cheap like che...
Filter Lands would probably be pretty useful in a 5c deck, wouldn’t they?
tender elm
Filter Lands would probably be pretty useful in a 5c deck, wouldn’t they?
Eh. Shadowmoor filters could be nice but they’re not my favorite
arctic crane
Filter Lands would probably be pretty useful in a 5c deck, wouldn’t they?
Have played with them a bunch, not a fan ;/
