#Teval Brew part 2 lets go

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opal patio
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remember urborg and yavimaya make your non mana lands mana lands

modern solar
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Yavi I have in Necro as well yes

modern solar
opal patio
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it is not a budget card for sure

unique path
modest lodgeBOT
unique path
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or your colorless sources then also have color. like [[command beacon]]

modest lodgeBOT
opal patio
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yep in decks i play urborg/yavi i play more colorless lands with other benefits because i can still tap em with urborg/yavi out for colors

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to be clear 'not more colorless than color lands' but im more comfortable playing lands that only tap for colorless because of that

modern solar
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Yeah I already noticed that the most Teval Pilots here are a lot of more competitive as I my Pod dont play much combos or stuff most rounds end with combat damage or rather all end like that 😄

opal patio
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teval by nature is bracket 3

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and playing at that bracket you want to slide stuff in just to stand a chance against other bracket 3 decks

modern solar
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Yeah I'm also fighting myself to just run the Precon again its good enough to have fun or only swap like 15 cards (without land upgrades)

opal patio
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upgrade the mana base, limit yourself to like 5-6 swaps of other cards

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and you can play low 3

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high 2

modern solar
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yeah was thinking about that as well 🙂

opal patio
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but the good part is you can build teval a couple different ways so if you dont like the landfall, you can still pivot

opal patio
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this artwork of it gives me Starship Troopers vibes

895e5e9b-84dd-4741-8a2c-442165ea9b15.png
unique path
opal patio
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it is

unique path
opal patio
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it is the 'Out of this world japanese showcase'

opal patio
unique path
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I would want it more if it was English print. I'm not a fan of nit being able to read my cards

opal patio
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just because thats who previewed it

frosty wigeon
modern solar
unique path
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Lower cmc and dropping some tap lands probably most important stuff to make deck play smooth. Good mama base will do wonders for you

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To answer this concern. Its really good. You get 2 or 3 things or 2 or 3 lands. Any lands. It can ramp you 3 lands if you have teval and a land drop that's 5 land in a turn. That's game breaking for your next turn and even if there's a wipe you can recover so hard

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Sometimes you'll get no lands but 3 exiles. Still amazing

modern solar
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I have to note the card down for my next order for sure 😮

unique path
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[[Tempt with discovery]] also good

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
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If everyone said no you get 1 land

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But if they take lands you get 4 lands

modern solar
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I will brew a new list for the weekend and will post a list with cuts and add to get some feedback 🙂

opal patio
# unique path Sometimes you'll get no lands but 3 exiles. Still amazing

to comment on this, with the artifact removal coming back into play (and becoming more powerful again) specifically with the new spacecraft all being artifacts, and EoE having a heavy Artifact focus and some decent enchantments, any artifact removal will probably end up being good for a decent amount of time

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the only problem with this is late game it tends to be useless as most people will have already ramped or will hold up their removal for what you do, but its decent mid-game

unique path
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there's 2 things that make it real good. it's exile. and it's 3 targets 1 for each player. even in late game if they give you the land or they exile it's still a win either way. the only way you can lose with that card is if you HAVE to get rid of something and they choose to give you a land

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at that point [[barrier breach]] might be better enchantment wise. but i don't know of something like this for artifacts

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
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[[krosan grip]] uncounterable but for 1 target. might need to hit

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
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you can't respond to krosan unless you have something that's also split second or a mana ability

opal patio
# unique path there's 2 things that make it real good. it's exile. and it's 3 targets 1 for ea...

late game my opps tend to have responses/spot removal, so even if say i get 3 more lands, to trigger landfall on say mossborn, someone might just exile mossborn. Sure i have 3 more lands, but that might not give me much to work with. Its definitely situational, because letting it resolve on their end with something held up to 'deal' with it, is different. Especially with [[planetary annihilation]] coming in the precon

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
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That doesn't seem bad for teval honestly

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It'll kill him. But losing the lands to the gy not a big deal

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Unbelievable they would put that into a precon

opal patio
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meh. I know bojuka bog is getting a lot more play in this set

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because of yard recursion

unique path
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Yep I saw it

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Surprised they don't print soul guide into the precons

opal patio
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it is

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in the other precon

unique path
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Ha! Must have missed it I looked them up this morning

opal patio
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the counter intelligence one has like 3-4 yard removals i believe

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or just good spot removal

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but again, with the amount of artifacts that will be active in current precon-level decks, i still feel that card is a valid option

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in our colors, i think most of it is single target artifact removal for 3

unique path
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[[icetiller explorer]] now that it's all been spoilted

modest lodgeBOT
humble lynx
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This isn't a commander deck but a brawl deck, but it's really fucking cool and has an 85% winrate in it Commander

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Actually this is a bad way to display the deck

unique path
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last night i had psychic frog and resolved a incanation technique that i copied. pulled out konrad and summon titan. I like summon titan in the deck.
someone cast a wipe so the table took 25 because of konrad. and i made more zombies while it was on the stack to kill 2 players. the frog is real good. good addition to the deck

woeful dew
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[[psychic frog]]

modest lodgeBOT
frigid cairn
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Pulled the landfall rare guy in me prerelease pack so that's one less card to worry about I guess

frigid cairn
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Also got breeding pool, woo

wise cave
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Have any of you used [[Lotus Field]] in your Teval deck? If so, what do you think?

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
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It's pretty good if you do it turn 5 and after when teval is out to bring one of those 2 lands back. 3 mana every turn is rather strong.
I would prefer the new green station land over this. Tap a ton of zombies to make it a cradle

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Or growing rites

wise cave
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Thanks for sharing your experience. I can see it not being great prior to turn 5.

floral sigil
# wise cave Have any of you used [[Lotus Field]] in your Teval deck? If so, what do you thi...

I've been running this card since I first built the deck, and I love it. I play a lot of lands that have utility effects when they enter like [[talon gates of madara]] and [[bojuka bog]] so things that sacrifice lands are a way for me to put those effects in my GY so teval can bring them back out and trigger their effects again. But aside from that, this card is super strong if you run any effects that let your lands enter untapped like [[Spelunking]]

modest lodgeBOT
floral sigil
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I will say though, Kyoshi probably has a point about it hindering Field of the Dead. I don't run that card, so it hasn't affected me at all, but I could see that being an issue in strategies that revolve around that card

wise cave
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I run Field of the Dead, so I'm hesitant. But I also run Spelunking. I'm also trying to get a copy of Talon Gates. Maybe I'll proxy Lotus Field and see how it plays for me. I'm not running Crop Rotation currently so I can't tutor for FotD anyway.

You might laugh at this, but I've avoided running Bojuka Bog since I'm the guy that uses my graveyard the most in my meta and I don't want to remind folks that they could use the Bog in their decks against me.

I run Lotus Field in my Giada deck and it's great, but I play white catch-up ramp in there too.

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Do you run the bounce lands since you have Spelunking? I just occurred to me that I could benefit from bounce lands with Spelunking and Tiller Engine.

floral sigil
floral sigil
modest lodgeBOT
wise cave
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Oh shoot! I forgot that I AM running the Wight. I could add the Caves I have a copy. Thanks!

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Are you running the one-colored-mana cycling lands? They've been great for me.

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I'm also curious about the depletion counter lands like [[Hickory Woodlot]]. Has anyone run those with success?

modest lodgeBOT
floral sigil
floral sigil
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If you really want to run a land with cycling so you can put something in the GY, then [[ash barrens]] is [probably better. But I don't like that option all that much either

modest lodgeBOT
wise cave
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Thanks!

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I've enjoyed the cycling lands because of the draw. I've been able to draw a couple times from one.

Are you running Glacial Chasm also? I am not. Would you be willing to share your list?

floral sigil
# wise cave I've enjoyed the cycling lands because of the draw. I've been able to draw a co...

I do not run Glacial Chasm. All 3 of my game changers are tutors (Worldly, Mystical, and Crop). My deck is a bit more of a toolbox strategy, with a "go-tall" subtheme.

https://archidekt.com/decks/12081160/teval_land_toolbox

Archidekt
Teval - Land Toolbox • (Sultai Commander deck) • Archidekt

Teval, the Balanced Scale - Commander deck

(1) Commander • (7) Big Guy • (5) Counterspell • (5) Draw • (2) Evasion • (7) Finisher • (38) Land • (4) Protection • (6) Ramp • (8) Recursion • (10) Removal • (6) Tutor

unique path
unique path
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And with urborg and yavimaya you can choose to tap for 1 if you don't want to sac them

wise cave
wise cave
floral sigil
wise cave
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I actually have the green and black depletion lands so maybe I'll try them out. I feel like I ramp pretty well already so that's my hesitation because I feel like I'd want to swap the cycling lands out for the depletion lands and then I'd lose some draw, which I think I more.

floral sigil
wise cave
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@floral sigil Have you been happy with [[Rise of the Witch King]]? It's been ok for me and I'm happy to reanimate a creature, but sorcery speed and opponent selects. So I kind of want to replace it with [[Soul Shatter]]. It's a toss up which one gives you more bang for the buck.

Maybe I should run both

modest lodgeBOT
wise cave
floral sigil
# wise cave I'm assuming (and have experienced) I'll draw multiple cards with the cycling.

It really doesn't matter how many you draw, because like I said, they don't generate card advantage. If you're paying mana to draw cards, then you should end with a greater number of cards in your hand then you started with. Going +0 isn't worth it. The only time their cycling effects are helpful is specifically when you want them in the GY so you can bring them back out, not for the card you draw as a conciliation prize

floral sigil
wise cave
floral sigil
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Its definitely important to make sure your deck has enough removal, but IDK if Soul Shatter is the type of removal your deck would really want

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At the very least, if you do want to use that type of effect, then consider using [[Flare of Malice]] instead, assuming your deck runs enough non-token black creatures

modest lodgeBOT
wise cave
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Flare isn't as good for my deck. I'm not running enough black creatures

floral sigil
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fair. But I still stand by my first statement. Soul Shatter isn't really the type of removal this deck wants to run

unique path
wise cave
modest lodgeBOT
floral sigil
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it is! Its just a better version of [[assassin's trophy]] most of the time

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
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Early game not as good but anytime after turn 4 pretty dang good

wise cave
unique path
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yea true

slender star
remote birch
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This build of mine has been fun

slender star
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ok kozilek is hilarious haha

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but i almost dont want to do that just to keep my graveyard full

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here's mine

remote birch
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Your curve is a bit higher than mine but I like the theme

slender star
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thanks, yeah i feel like ive only won games when they are grindy

floral sigil
modest lodgeBOT
floral sigil
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plus it gives me plenty of ways to close out the game other than just cratehoof. Both because there are more overrun effects that work well with go-tall strategies, but also because just having a really big creature with evasion is often enough

slender star
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yeah great points

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what do you guys target with [[steward of the harvest]] usually?

modest lodgeBOT
floral sigil
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The best targets are lands that tap for 2 or more mana, like lotus field and the bounce lands. Any lands that have activated abilities that aren't mana abilities are also amazing targets. Fetchlands, [[Maze of Ith]], [[Shifting Woodlands]] etc

modest lodgeBOT
slender star
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ahh having all my tokens become lotus fields is pretty good lol

floral sigil
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yep, it definitely is 🤣

slender star
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shifting woodland is a good land that i should probably run

floral sigil
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Oh yeah, its AMAZING in this deck, but I especially love it because its the easiest way to trigger [[Dark Depths]] and get a Marit Lage token

modest lodgeBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/244/dark-depths

Dark Depths

Legendary Snow Land
Dark Depths enters with ten ice counters on it.
mana3: Remove an ice counter from Dark Depths.
When Dark Depths has no ice counters on it, sacrifice it. If you do, create Marit Lage, a legendary 20/20 black Avatar creature token with flying and indestructible.

slender star
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oh yeah, even easier than copying dark depths

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interesting

floral sigil
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funny enough, I actually don't run thespian stage, despite the fact that dark depths is a big part of my strategy

slender star
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yeah i was wondering why not haha

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vesuva works the same i guess

floral sigil
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No, vesuva enters as the copy, so it would get ice counters

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My main ways to trigger dark depths are just shifting woodlands and [[mutated cultist]]

modest lodgeBOT
slender star
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ahhh nice i like that

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i had an omo deck with dark depth, maybe it's time to bring it to teval

floral sigil
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I'm a fan of it for sure

remote birch
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I love dark depths

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Run it in most of my lands matter decks

unique path
modest lodgeBOT
unique path
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you could play that, use a fetch to get aother fetch. to get another fetch, potentially getting 4-5 landfall triggers in the trun if not more.
[[mossborn hydra]] suddenly can one shot anyone

modest lodgeBOT
slender star
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wait you’re cooking here….

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i also don’t really love how steward of the harvest exiles my lands

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and once she’s gone i won’t be able to use them again

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i’m also waiting for [[travelling chocobo]] to dip a lil in price

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
remote birch
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[[bristly bill]]

modest lodgeBOT
floral sigil
unique path
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I have successfully used [[spark double]] to make a ton of trval triggers

modest lodgeBOT
wise cave
modest lodgeBOT
unique path
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good card. can trigger teval. and remove some stuff from other people at the same time

wise cave
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Plus it triggers Teval if taking from your graveyard

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Great minds!!

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Yeah I often remove one card from my yard and two from others

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For some reason I've never liked Bojuka Bog and just don't run it in any of my decks.

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@unique path Would you be willing to share your decklist? I tried scrolling pretty damn far up this thread to find one and just got fed up. I'm not super great at Discord and I'm sure there's an easy way to get to the beginning of a thread, but I haven't found it.

I ask since it sounds like we're playing similar styles. I really enjoy draining the table!! I do this in many of my decks. I should probably try something else like go-tall that Colossus does. I've never tried that with the exception of an old Tuvasa voltron deck. I didn't like voltron much.

floral sigil
unique path
modest lodgeBOT
unique path
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took out mending of domniaria and added summon titan for example

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and aftermath analyst wasn't doing anything for me so i added lumara

wise cave
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I've been running Aftermath and have been curious as to whether spending the cash (I only play in paper and not super often) for a Lumra would be worth it over Analyst.

wise cave
wise cave
# unique path https://archidekt.com/decks/12379209/teval_2025 mostly updated. I did add a [[j...

Thanks! We definitely have similarities. Constant Mists seems great in here. I only have one copy in my Sythis deck, but I've been thinking of breaking it apart as I rarely play it.

I've been contemplating dumping Sol Ring and Arcane Signet to add two more lands, which would put me at 37. 35 doesn't quite seem like enough to me. You're running 34. Have you had any issues with land drops?

unique path
modest lodgeBOT
unique path
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no i never have issues with land drops ever

wise cave
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Also i can see Herd Heirloom helping with Teval by turn 3, but not Sol Ring

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Has Tatyova been a good card draw engine for you? I've occasionally run into issues where I just didn't want to cast her at that moment. I can see her completely blowing up if folks let her stay on board for a couple turns though.

woeful dew
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I think ive asked this before but in the route of Sultai Zombie shenanigans would Teval be alright to run? I kinda want to abuse the token generation

remote birch
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Sure, you could also abuse druid tribal if you go that route

unique path
unique path
opal patio
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so we running [[the soul stone]] or what ?

modest lodgeBOT
opal patio
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lol

slender star
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my maybeboard continues to grow lol

opal patio
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my maybeboard is twice that of my deck lmfao

opal patio
# slender star an interesting include!

but just being a 2 drop mana rock that enters untapped with indestructible makes it an autoinclude (if you could benefit from the extra mana fixing), especially for decks that already play throught vessel, fellwar stone, or diamonds (as examples)

unique path
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It's a mana rock

opal patio
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i know theres like [[debtors' knell]] ...but just like that im pretty sure everything else that is similar is multi-pipped and not indestructible, obviously can still be exiled

modest lodgeBOT
opal patio
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[[Virtue of Prescence]] is the closest, but unlike that this is still usable early game as a mana-rock, until you get you get the mana

modest lodgeBOT
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No card found for “Virtue of Prescence”

unique path
opal patio
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[[virtue of persistence]]

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
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You can do it on end step of someone else's turn. To get the infinity Trigger on your upkeep

opal patio
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yep

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i was thinking you can do some stuff with phyrexian altar if you need mana, you can exile a zombie druid token for the 'exile' part

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its pretty easy to do early on

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i go back and forth on playing Gaea's Cradle, and this being 6 generic makes it a decent dump

unique path
opal patio
modest lodgeBOT
unique path
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I just pulled the blue one last night and it went straight into iron man

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I can station that easily

opal patio
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Sure sure. I've been playing them pretty regularly in non-competitive games (like commander box league) but in an actual game, I'm not sure how much free rein I'll have

unique path
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I made 12 zombies in a turn last night

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Plus chatterfang tokens. It's pretty easy to get to 12 power. If I had that green land I would slot it immediately

opal patio
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My biggest issue with it is late game it's kinda meh

unique path
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That's why I cut cradle

opal patio
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Cradle would be better late game then Evendo 10 times out of 10...no turn on condition, so I'd rather have cradle, and cradle late game for me has been a win con, but having to station late game means less or no blockers left up

remote birch
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Cradle is amazing

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I cut field of the dead for cradle

unique path
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Cradle is also useless turn 1

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I used to run chasm cradle and field. And I'm down to field as my one GC land. Thats fine. We all have different styles

opal patio
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Always tend to have one or the other, and I hold up interactions normally for whipes

wise cave
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Anyone tried [[Augmenter Pugilist // Echoing Equation]]? I was thinking of running [[Nanogene Conversion]], but for one more mana to cast EE you can also recur it to hand with Tortured Existence and the two Witnesses.

modest lodgeBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/stx/147/augmenter-pugilist-echoing-equation

Augmenter Pugilist <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Creature — Troll Druid
Trample
As long as you control eight or more lands, this creature gets +5/+5.
"Hold still. I have a theory about what's going to happen to your face."
3/3

Echoing Equation mana3manaumanau
Sorcery
Choose target creature you control. Each other creature you control becomes a copy of it until end of turn, except those creatures aren't legendary.
"Any good experiment is repeatable."

wise cave
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Wow! I realized that Nanogene changes ALL creatures to your choice not just yours. If I'm cloning Teval, I certainly wouldn't want my opponents creatures to be the same in that instance, so Echoing seems better from that standpoint alone.

slender star
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what other targets would you guys choose for nanogene?

wise cave
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Not a lot of other great options in my deck besides Colossal Grave-Reaver. Maybe Gitrog for an alpha strike, but deathtouch is still blockable. Maybe Syr Konrad if you can kill stuff as well. If I have Wonder in my graveyard then the choices are easier from a combat perspective.

woeful dew
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[[Hedron Crab]] would be an ideal target i think. In theory Its an alternative win con if set up properly

modest lodgeBOT
woeful dew
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Since we can generate a decent amount of bodies and mana anyways, turning them into crabs, playing our land for turn and tevals land retrieval plus whatever ramp we want to just go nuts. Probably best used as an attempt to mill out a single player

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I forget the name but theres another crab that mills all opponents as a landfall trigger

unique path
# slender star what other targets would you guys choose for nanogene?

only if i have more creatures than the table, which i'm mostly going to have, i would pick Syr Konrad, or Ayara.
if you have enough creatures(zombies) to turn into teval, you can swing the zombies, mill a shit ton of cards, bring a ton of lands back and for every land you bring back, you will make X= number of tevals you have. so if you have 5 tevals(1 teval + 4 other creatures) you would attack with the 4 zombie tokens. doesn't matter if they block. you mill 16 return 4 lands back and make 20 zombies

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risk is milling yourself out but you don't have to attack with all of them. if you have 10 tevals you can attack with 3 and make 30 zombies

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i use spark double to get 2 tevals or 2 of whatevever i think is best. grave reaver is a good one

modern solar
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Hey my Teval pilots 🙂

Current Decklist:
https://archidekt.com/decks/12167171/sultai_graveyard

I'm not sure what to cut for maybe the following cards:
Cuts: Skull Prophet, Overlord of the Floodpits, Protean Hulk, Lethal Scheme and Crypt of Agadeem. - open for any other cards to cut.

Cards I own which I could include:
Veil of Summer (not sure if needed), Walk-In-Closet / Forgotten Cellar, Ramunap Excavator, Glacierwood Siege, Tatyova Benthic Druid, Culling Ritual, Sylvan Safekeeper, Beast Whisperer, Elemental Bond, Herd Heirloom, Braids Arisen Nightmare, Dark Ritual, Naga Fleshcrafter, Winternight Stories, Counterspell,

Only mentioned the most important adds. The Deck should still be Bracket 3 without any infinite combos.
Happy to get some feedback on "best in Teval" cards ❤️

Archidekt
Sultai Graveyard • (Sultai Commander deck) • Archidekt

Teval, the Balanced Scale - Commander deck

(1) Commander • (4) Artifact • (29) Creature • (5) Enchantment • (12) Instant • (36) Land • (13) Sorcery

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Also I already preordered the Icetill Guy for this Deck which I need a cut for 🙂

unique path
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Skull profit easy cut. There's death rite and molt tender that are better.
Protein hulk you can cut unless you are trying to combo out. I guess you can get value out of it but why spend 7 mana on that or cheat that out to just kill it. Needs a specific purpose or you can cut it.
I wouldn't recommend cutting lethal scheme as it's a free kill spell if you have untapped creatures which you will mostly every turn.
Crypt of agadeem is expensive and living death or something is probably just better.
Culling ritual dark ritual silvan safekeeper are the ones that stand out to me from your list.
Looks like you want to get lands out of GY just make sure you can play multiple if you are going that way

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Also counter spells are always good even if you mill them sometimes

modern solar
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Okay seems legit yeah 🙂
Any other cards you would rather cut ?
Crypt I just dislike it disappointed me so many times 🙁

How many multiple Land drops should I have in my list and what to cut for them :/
I have an Azusa and Exploration in my binder ?

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I will replace Crypt of Agadeem with Veral Den the new cycle 🙂

opal patio
modest lodgeBOT
unique path
modern solar
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Ah yeah true I could run Azusa and Icetill is on its way 🙂

unique path
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I really like [[Incarnation technique]] 5 mana mill 10 get 2 creatures back. And you can give the copy to a spell slinger or something to make them mill 5 and wiff on the creature

modest lodgeBOT
woeful dew
unique path
woeful dew
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missed the last line on the card my bad

jovial swan
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Just remember Nanogene does turn everyone's creatures into Tevals

floral sigil
modern solar
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@floral sigil yeah I run all of them in my Necrobloom Deck and Teval I will mostly add play lands from gy effects I guess and still have one exploration left so maybe I'll throw this one in there as well need so find cuts first tho .. 🙁

wise cave
unique path
jovial swan
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It's just one of those things where suddenly giving people blockers for flying may be a downside

unique path
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Yea agree you have to use it correctly

wise cave
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That's why Echoing Equation might be more agreeable to folks. It only converts your creatures AND can be recurred to hand as Augmenter Pugilist by Tortured Existence and a few other cards.

unique path
floral sigil
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that's why its 1 mana less than aesi

unique path
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I took out all the lands from gy effects and I don't miss them. Muldrotha and icetill are the only ones and those are side effects

unique path
floral sigil
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yeah, tatyova and aesi are both amazing in this deck.

unique path
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@floral sigil Random thought. I cut chasm a while back. I don't miss it. But I did die a bunch of times to dragon etb damage triggers and I still don't think I should put it back in even though it's a one turn mostly can't die effect

floral sigil
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I'm glad to hear you don't miss it. I kinda figured that would be the case. If you're struggling with triggered effects specifically, have you considered running counterspells that stop those, such as [[Defabricate]] and [[Tale's End]]? I have both in my deck, and they are quite effective

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
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I would need to run creature removal there's 2 dragons that do it terror of the peaks

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And another one

floral sigil
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Ah if it’s a repeatable effect like that, then yeah removal would make more sense.

olive folio
modest lodgeBOT
olive folio
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Looking in here has given me some good ideas. I liked the land ramp in theory, but I think y'all are right about needing draw more than ramp, since Teval does that on her own.

unique path
olive folio
unique path
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oh i misread that

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nice

acoustic dagger
#

The [[Herdron crab]] [[hedge shredder]] combo is so busted my gf pulled out 12 lands in a turn with it and just killed me with over 1000 scutes lmao

modest lodgeBOT
olive folio
#

That's the card I was looking for!

modern solar
#

Teval pilots I need your help before game day in my LGS 😮 ❤️

unique path
unique path
modern solar
#

What do we think on these changes ...

Teval_changes.JPG
unique path
#

Good changes

modern solar
#

And I need 7 cuts from a pro for these adds or a little chatting / discussion which of these I must include:

Wants_to_add.JPEG
#

I wonder how many self mill effects I should run and how many recursion and how many landfall abilities .. 🙂

unique path
#

I need a broodship myself

modern solar
unique path
#

I would not run ramunap and the siege at the same time. Probably siege better since it's not a creature

modern solar
#

Oh yeah makes sense I can include greaves or swifts as well but what to cut I'm stuck 😄

modern solar
#

So I only need 6 cuts or 7 seven if I should run greaves yeah

unique path
#

i think safekeeper and tatyova are keeps

#

what do you need dark ritual for? it can let you turn 3 teval i guess

#

or do other things

olive folio
#

Broodship is very nice

#

With +8 it's baby [[Muldrotha, the Gravetide]] for 1 mana

modest lodgeBOT
modern solar
#

I think my mana curve is kinda high but since I'm in green I think I dont need it yeah ..
I'm thinking about cutting harrow and Springbloom Druid tho?

unique path
#

i cut harrow and eventually springbloom but springbloom is real good to get more landfall

olive folio
#

(And to be clear, Muldrotha is GOATed with the sauce, no arguments)

unique path
#

broodship is once per turn permanent but yes that's fucking CHEAP compared to 6 mana being a 1 cmc

#

i have muldrotha in mine but i wouldn't care if i cut it i think the deck would work find without her

olive folio
#

The effect is insane

#

[[Haywire Mite]] 3x against an artifact deck cooks them

modest lodgeBOT
modern solar
unique path
#

my landfall triggers are tatyova, field of the dead. mossbord hydra(you need 6 land drops to kill someone with this and it doesn't have to all be same turn)
scute swarm

#

ob is pretty good for single target player removal. 3 life per land is no joke. and he gets huge so if you can give him trample it's terryfying but i cut him from my deck

#

i wanted tayova more than ob

#

and icetill over him too

modern solar
#

Mossborn Hydra I have in my Necrobloom Deck where I can easily put 3 lands a turn or more 😄

olive folio
#

I like [[Tifa Lockhart]] on top of Mossborn

modest lodgeBOT
modern solar
#

Oh yeah Icetill I have as well now 🙂

unique path
modern solar
#

You could also run [[Mightform Harmonizer]]

modest lodgeBOT
olive folio
#

She's not as scary immediately

unique path
#

cast this. fetchland. crack land. attack. 3rd land. someone dies

olive folio
#

But you find Lumra or Scapeshift and she can knock someone out

unique path
#

mightform is crazy if you can get trample on things

modern solar
#

Okay so for my Deck changes now I will cut Springbloom Druid and Harrow for Sylvan Safekeeper and Tatyova.
I want to include Lightning Greaves maybe I cut abrupt decay for it?
I need one more cut for Glacierwood Siege 😮

#

Maybe cut Nyx Weaver ?
But I want this to be more a Mill Deck but also run nice 😄

unique path
modest lodgeBOT
modern solar
#

So this is my current list now but somehow I think I will cut grapple with the past and also I need to cut Sorceries I think to run more creatures? 😮
Started as a precon but wanna make it fun and powerful and sometimes I think run less removal is powerful so others waste their ressource rather protect then remove ?

floral sigil
#

examples: [[Six]], [[ripples of undeath]], [[Lumra, Bellow of the Woods]] etc

modest lodgeBOT
modern solar
#

I run them too but Lumra I don't own 🙁

floral sigil
#

Sure, and that's fine. But my point is, you should evaluate what a card is doing for your deck, and if the answer is just "it lets me mill" then I don't think that card is good enough to run, personally

#

"It lets me mill" should always come with an "and it does X"

modern solar
#

Yeah true I mean in my case just mill is also fine I guess since I run a lot of reanimate spells but your right so maybe gut grapple with the past and also cache crab, also not sold on eldritch evolution never drew it

olive folio
#

Ooo

#

I should swap mes orb for ripples. That's more consistent and less likely to eat hate

#

Here's my take on it. Still under construction

olive folio
#

[[Lilting Refrain]] is interesting

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
olive folio
#

Had a really strong showing with the deck, but holy shit you get lost in the sauce

unique path
floral sigil
#

That’s a big part of the reason I went with a “go tall” theme instead of going wide. It’s less triggers to manage

wise cave
slender star
#

i've removed mesmeric orb from my deck and I honestly dont miss it. Yes, the mill is nice but it draws so much unwanted attention i feel like just running self mill or dredge will be enough

#

generally, people dont like seeing their library in their graveyard

#

btw if you guys want to put some lands in your graveyard [[ayula's influence]] could be a nice way to do that with most go wide strategies

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

There's a zombie version of that I forgot the name

#

[[Zombie infestation]]

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

This one not bad it's any 2 cards you can put creatures in the gy to bring them back

olive folio
#

Oh yeah, this is not going to be resolved in anything resembling a reasonable amount of time.

Screenshot_20250806_104615_Forge.jpg
wise cave
#

For those of you that have got plenty of games under your belt, how would you rank order [[Aftermath Analyst]],[[Lumra, Bellow of the Woods]], [[Summon: Titan]], and [[Worldshaper]]?

modest lodgeBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/fin/204/summon:-titan

Summon: Titan <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Enchantment Creature — Saga Giant
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter. Sacrifice after III.)
I — Mill five cards.
II — Return all land cards from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.
III — Until end of turn, another target creature you control gains trample and gets +X/+X, where X is the number of lands you control.
Reach, trample
7/7

floral sigil
#

In order:
Average, Amazing, Good, Average

unique path
wise cave
floral sigil
#

If you have sac outlets in your deck, then yes that order is correct. If you don't already run them, then aftermath would be better than worldshaper

#

But also, Will of the Sultai is the actual number 1 on this list

olive folio
#

Will of the Sultai is slightly better than Lumra, but I think it's a lot worse without Teval sticking,

#

Both are crazy if you can stick one of the good landfall triggers like Aesi or Tireless

#

(Or FoD)

unique path
#

Or tayova. Or ob nixilis. That's why it's #1 probably

#

the first part is the important part i think. the 2nd part is if you are trying to kill someone, which I've done with the card before and Teval. but even if teval isn't around, getting all the lands back is the real meat. the trample and counters is a side bonus

olive folio
#

For the record, [[Triumph of the Hordes]] is extremely baller as an overrun in go-wide

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

Great card I use it in elf deck thats very wide

slender star
#

for those who run ob nixilis: how does he feel? he's been on my maybe for a long time

#

also does anyone run [[groundskeeper]]?

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
unique path
floral sigil
#

Have any of you folks ever considered using a Deserts sub theme to this deck? There’s a lot of really bad desert cards, so we wouldn’t invest into it too heavily, but [[Lazotep Quarry]] is like an absolutely perfect land for this deck.

[[Conduit Pylons]] and [[Scavenger Grounds]] are pretty decent too, especially if you run a few desert support spells to make them easily tutorable.

modest lodgeBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/79/lazotep-quarry

Lazotep Quarry

Land — Desert
manat: Add manac.
manat, Sacrifice a creature: Add one mana of any color.
manaxmana2, manat, Sacrifice a Desert: Exile target creature card with mana value X from your graveyard. Create a token that's a copy of it, except it's a 4/4 black Zombie. Activate only as a sorcery.

#

https://scryfall.com/card/otj/254/conduit-pylons

Conduit Pylons

Land — Desert
When this land enters, surveil 1. (Look at the top card of your library. You may put it into your graveyard.)
manat: Add manac.
mana1, manat: Add one mana of any color.
The newly constructed relays harness the desert sun, bringing power to settlers across the plane.

floral sigil
#

As for those desert support spells, I was thinking something like [[Dance of the Tumbleweeds]], [[Map the Frontier]], [[Colossal Rattleworm]] and then optionally [[Dune Chanter]] to make it so all these tutors can actually grab any land

modest lodgeBOT
floral sigil
#

If you wanted to condense the package down a bit, I think just running Lazotep and Rattleworm could also work.

olive folio
#

I will once again shill [[Hour of Promise]]

modest lodgeBOT
floral sigil
#

Hour of Promise is a decent card, but I wouldn’t run specifically for this package, since there’s really only 3 deserts total that you’d really want to run in this deck. Plus the desert effect on this card isn’t that good

olive folio
modest lodgeBOT
olive folio
#

(not an actual desert)

unique path
floral sigil
#

Yeah, kinda figured that’d be the case. Lazotep seems like a pretty amazing land though. I’m shocked I don’t see more people talking about it. I guess if you run enough other land tutors you don’t really need the desert specific ones, but I do really like that the desert tutors can all also grab basic lands when need be. Well, aside from Rattlewurm, which, ironically, I think is the best one. It’d be nice to be able to tutor for Lazotep just by milling it

remote birch
#

Don't talk about it, they will push the price up

unique path
#

I decided to cut crop and throw chasm back in. Crop wasn't doing it for me and I have chances to mill it

floral sigil
#

that really seems like the wrong call to me. "I have a chance to mill it" is never a reason to cut a card.

#

Because like, this is a signleton format with a 99 card deck. You're not going to see 80% of your deck in any given game. What's the difference between milling a card, and just not drawing it? The only thing you should worry about is how good a card is when you do get to use it, and Crop Rot is AMAZING whenever you have access to it

olive folio
unique path
modern solar
#

Does someone play these cards in their teval deck & how would you rate them if you’re running them ?
Also what about ashaya is this a good card or where is it a good include ?

floral sigil
#

I play amulet of Vigor in my teval deck. I actually use [[Urza's Saga]] to tutor for it. I don't run the other two. They'd probably be better in a more dedicated landfall build

modest lodgeBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/259/urzas-saga

Urza's Saga

Enchantment Land — Urza's Saga
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter. Sacrifice after III.)
I — This Saga gains "manat: Add manac."
II — This Saga gains "mana2, manat: Create a 0/0 colorless Construct artifact creature token with 'This token gets +1/+1 for each artifact you control.'"
III — Search your library for an artifact card with mana cost mana0 or mana1, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle.

acoustic dagger
modern solar
acoustic dagger
#

Yeah people don’t like seeing a 14/14 on the other board most of the times you’ll get gunned down for having that ability and showing it off but not ending the game usually just gets me killed

modern solar
acoustic dagger
#

I’ve found big stompy creatures are better in a bracket 2 maybe low end 3 theme of Teval but unless the value is massive from the card like [[ob nixillis, the fallen]] I’ve found going wide is usually what Teval wants to do

modest lodgeBOT
acoustic dagger
#

Like chatterfang goes absolutely bonkers in this deck

#

If you have the $ doubling season is a fun one too

modern solar
#

Yeah I try to play more cheap creatures and maybe I have to let go my dream of a reanimator Deck tho today almost milled one out with crabby and aftermath analyst bringing in 22 lands 😄

floral sigil
#

The trick is, you just have to create pressure somehow. Huge creatures with no evasion don't create pressure. That's why I run [[Managorger Hydra]] but not [[Forgotten Ancient]]

modest lodgeBOT
opal patio
modern solar
remote birch
#

Time to think about snagging a shuffle titan

opal patio
#

theres a couple other suffle cards that arent creatures if you dont want to run the titans

#

but that makes an interesting use case for me and Gaea's cradle, and the extra mana i have from it...i could get dump into an eldrazi...hmmmm..normally i wouldnt play them in this deck, but it could be any interesting play

remote birch
#

I like the ideas of being able to drop one for big mana

unique path
#

[[willow geist]] need to throw this in. will get big quick

modest lodgeBOT
slender star
#

hmmmm

unique path
#

also for going tall managorger like mentioned earlier and mossborn is probably the FASTEST go tall thing in my teval deck. double power every land fall means 2 to 4 to 8 to 16 to 32 to 64. 6 lands to kill someone

humble lynx
#

Amulet of vigor is what enables your Lumra loops, I don't even run sol ring because it's the better tutor off of Urza's saga

#

Ashaya? Mid.

#

You're running tokens mostly, Ashaya is no token so she's mid at best

#

You're better off running that TKD creature that lets you exile up to three lands and gives all your guys those land abilities than running Ashaya

#

Cobra helps you power out Teval early, he's kinda wasted cause you lose the mana from the land recovery from Teval unless you have a way to spend it at instant speed, so you could argue [[Nissa Resurgent Animist]] is better cause it'll find stuff for you if you have those types of cards in the deck

modest lodgeBOT
humble lynx
#

She does find you aftermath analyst

#

Also finds you Lumra

#

And tireless tracker/provisioner

modern solar
#

Oh thanks a lot for now i don’t even run tireless tracker/provisioner but probanly should just convert my List to landfall / token deck i guess but also already have Necrobloom that’s why I’m trying something different 😄
Lumra I don’t own at the Moment 😮

unique path
#

i like lumra way more than aftermath. aftermath is a broken up cost but it can die before you can pay the 4. paying the 4 is like meh. you can decide when to cast lumra and when not to. and you can reanimate her to get the lands back too. and she has reach. really good card

opal patio
unique path
#

sure that's 100% true. you can loop aftermath and like squandered resources and shifting infinitely

remote birch
#

Shifting woodland is an insane card

humble lynx
remote birch
#

After cradle and talon gates for me, so 3rd best

opal patio
remote birch
#

Or protect teval

#

Or remove any big threat

opal patio
remote birch
#

[[talon gates of Madara]]

modest lodgeBOT
remote birch
#

You can just pay 4

opal patio
#

Ohh shit

#

Yeah I always read that backwards

#

When it first came out I read it right, and haven't read it that way since then

#

Always read it as "pay 4 to put this card into hand"

#

Ugh, thanks lol

remote birch
#

It's great because it isn't a spell

floral sigil
#

Also don’t forget that you can phase out an opponent’s creature too. Since Teval’s effect happens before your opponents can declare blockers, it can remove their best one.

#

Plus you should run cards that put it onto the field at instant speed from your library, like [[Wight of the Reliquary]] or [[Urza’s Cave]] or [[Crop Rotation]]

modest lodgeBOT
remote birch
#

its just such a damn versatile card

slender star
#

yeah i removed glacial chasm for talon gates. never looked back

#

i threw [[famished worldsire]] in the deck, havent casted it yet but we'll see how it goes

modest lodgeBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/eoe/182/famished-worldsire

Famished Worldsire <:mana5:292901508796645386><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Creature — Leviathan
Ward mana3
Devour land 3 (As this creature enters, you may sacrifice any number of lands. It enters with three times that many +1/+1 counters on it.)
When this creature enters, look at the top X cards of your library, where X is this creature's power. Put any number of land cards from among them onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle.
0/0

opal patio
unique path
# remote birch After cradle and talon gates for me, so 3rd best

i cut cradle and i don't miss it. i'm gonna put the station cradle land in though. not a GC. growing rites is also an option as getting 4 creatures into play as a teval deck is so freaking easy.
i would say my "best" lands are the fetches, shocks and the [[peat bog]] style lands that tap for 2 mana and sac themselves. it doesn't happen often but it FEELS AWFUL to miss a teval land drop from the GY so i like to make sure there's always a land in my GY before I attack

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

i've been playing against the new EOE land commander and if you aren't already you should 100% be playing some form of GY hate. bojuka is great. but there's others like [[soul guide lantern]] and [[dauthi voidwalker]]

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

that new commander will out value you so hard. sac 10 lands everyone lose 20. replay the same fetch 3 times to get more lands everyone lose 6

#

GY hate and search hate like op agent and ashiok would probably help the most but op agent is a GC and ashiok isn't actually a bad idea it can mill you and exile everyone's GY for 3 mana

#

[[ashiok dream render]]

modest lodgeBOT
floral sigil
#

If we're talking about GY hate cards, There's a new one from FF that's really fun: [[Espers to Magicite]]

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

That's a really good piece of interaction

opal patio
remote birch
#

I think with blue we have a fair amount of disruption, you just need to convince the rest of the table to deal with the threat too

frigid cairn
#

only now realizing etb doubler in the vein of staRFIELD VOCalist also double landfall trigger, so silly

olive folio
#

(i.e. if you Lumra with Tatyova on field and slap down 30 lands, you may in fact deck yourself)

humble lynx
olive folio
#

Same 😂

humble lynx
#

Luckily I had that flash land out

#

Colorless sack it to cast at flash speed

#

Held prio on the tatyova trigger that would've killed me, flashed lab man

olive folio
#

yeah, I had to sac Tatyova and I had the 40k enchantment that lets me bring back creatures instead of losing, but I lose if no creatures in grave

humble lynx
#

But that game is what made me slot in [[Endurance]]

modest lodgeBOT
humble lynx
#

Cause if I didn't happen to have that land out? I was fucked

olive folio
#

Repeatedly saccing all my lands with Zuran Orb and then bringing them back with Aftermath Analyst, saccing Aftermath Analyst to keep a creature in grave...

humble lynx
#

Endurance at least adds a safety net

olive folio
#

also

#

tfw someone Bojuka Bogs your Jace

#

and you have no other deckout wincons

humble lynx
#

That's when you switch game plans

#

Overwhelm the board with zombies from Teval

unique path
# humble lynx That's when you switch game plans

This. So much this. If I have psychic frog out and nothing to do with my gy I'm exiting that whole fucking thing at end step before my turn to swing out with zombies. Versatility is the reason my win rate with that deck is like 75%

olive folio
#

Jace was my backup. I lost my backup but I still had 49 tokens.

humble lynx
#

Lands matter? She got that. Reanimator? She got that. Overrun? She got that. Aristocrats? She got that. Generic midrange value? SHE GOT THAT SHIT ON!

unique path
#

Yea after teval I rarely touch muldrotha

humble lynx
#

Muldrotha can still hang in the 99

humble lynx
#

I'd save 3 to activate on your turn tho to give froggy some flying

unique path
#

Yea turn 3 ccommander vs maybe 5 or 6 is a strong difference

humble lynx
#

Or well you'll get 2 more on attack step so I guess you can activate it before blocks

unique path
#

Drawing on frog hitting is amazing

#

And if you need to discard to give it counters even better

humble lynx
#

God frog is such a stupid card

#

Why can you activate all of its abilities at instant speed?!

#

Shit should've been sorcery speed 😭

unique path
humble lynx
#

He got hammered almost immediately

unique path
#

Well the attempt was for modern anyway

opal patio
humble lynx
opal patio
humble lynx
#

Her lore is pretty damn fitting and they nailed how she works compared to her lore

#

Probably my favorite of the new Tarkir dragons

#

Newgin doesn't count cause he doesn't have the dragon typing

remote birch
#

Betor is a badass

#

But teval is really awesome

frigid cairn
#

crazy that it took me this long to find titan's nest, but I sure found titan's nest

#

spelunking too (though I probably gonna use it more on hearthrull

opal patio
frigid cairn
#

yeah but also it's just one of the cheaper interesting cards that I wanted to try out

unique path
remote birch
#

Which betor?

unique path
unique path
#

Counters reanimate betor

remote birch
#

He is very consistent

#

The toughness one pops off hard

#

But is unreliable

unique path
#

The delve teval is insane

olive folio
#

Delve Teval kills you so fast tho

remote birch
#

It's frustrating

#

It's so close to being a blast

unique path
floral sigil
# remote birch Betor is a badass

I've actually been building a Betor list lately. I've got a nice little trifecta of lands decks
Szarel is lands aggro
Teval is lands midrange
Betor is lands control

remote birch
#

I did more control for teval, aggro for hearthhull and stax for Thalia and the frog

slender star
#

can i use transmute on [[tolaria west]] to fetch a land?

modest lodgeBOT
frosty wigeon
#

Which is a good thing to k ow exists. Thanks

slender star
#

😎 eat up boys im definitely gonna try it in teval

#

only thing that kind of limits it is the fact that teval brings it to the battlefield after so you wont be able to do it again

floral sigil
#

Idk this just seems kinda worse than [[Sylvan Scrying]] or [[Expedition Map]] or [[Urza’s Cave]] or [[Wight of the reliquary]]

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
modest lodgeBOT
floral sigil
#

Sure, if you’re running 0 mana spells then I can see it being worth running. Though I don’t like Zuran Orb, personally. But if the main reason you’re running to Tolarian is to discard it so you can play it from GY, there are a lot better lands for that niche

kind mulch
#

Hi! Better [[Syr Konrad, the grim]] or [[Ob Nixilis, the fallen]] on a Teval landfall reanimator

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

If you have space run both

#

Konrad triggers on teval mill. Or any mill. Ans has built in mill
A creature leaving your gy which you can proc so many ways. Anything dying including not your creatures.

kind mulch
#

Can I send here my decklist for Teval? For opinion and suggestions

opal patio
kind mulch
floral sigil
# kind mulch https://moxfield.com/decks/p6EQfgyqJUWeQqxK6myaYg here my list, on the sideboard...

So, a couple of things stand out to me immediately with this list. Firstly, I feel like your lands could use some tweaking. 36 is a pretty low number for a deck like this, and you aren't running any good utility lands. Pretty much every land card you have there just produces mana and nothing else. Since your commander gives you a land for free from your GY every turn, you should play lands with interesting effects so you can pick-and-choose which ones you want. Aside from that, I think the biggest thing is that you lack easy access to a win condition. It seems like Cratehoof is your main win condition, but you don't have any redundancy or tutors for it, and you have very few ways to get it out of your GY if you mill it.

remote birch
#

What's your take on my teval

unique path
remote birch
#

I have a few infinites with retreat but I'll cut refute

#

Maybe drown in the loch

kind mulch
floral sigil
# kind mulch which cards could i add for a win cond?

Well, that depends on how you want to win. Teval is an insanely flexible commander, so you can tailor the deck to your own personal playstyle. If you want to play midrange and win with a big combat finisher like Craterhoof, then you can add [[Overwhelming Stampede]] and [[Tyvar, the Pummler]] as backup options, plus maybe some better ways to search for these from the deck or recover one of them from the GY. But there are lots of other ways to win with this deck as well, like combos or flooding the board with tokens. You should pick whatever best suits how you want to play the game

modest lodgeBOT
frigid edge
unique path
remote birch
#

[[wight of the reliquary]] + retreat puts all lands on field if I have scute or nantuko out

modest lodgeBOT
modern solar
#

How do Teval pilots think about [[Cabal Ritual]], [[Culling Ritual]], [[Culling the Weak]] ?
Kinda thinking about them more but curious if anyone running these and why and why not? 😮

modest lodgeBOT
floral sigil
#

I do not run any of these. Of the cards on this list, Culling Ritual is the one that seems the most interesting, and I've seen it in plenty of other Teval decks. Mainly, I just don't think they're that useful. This deck already ramps a ton, and has specific synergy with land ramp, so I don't see any reason to run ritual-type ramp cards. Its the hardest card type to recover from the GY, and doesn't have any specific synergy when milled, plus you won't always have something huge to ramp into in your hand. These types of cards seem better in decks that want to play super fast and rush to their win condition, whereas the typical teval deck is a bit grindy-er and likes to generate advantage over time

modern solar
#

Yeah makes sense the best one is culling ritual I agree I need to try it.
Yeah also I was wondering if there are nice creatures with dredge escape or something flashback you can generate value of even if its milled.
I try to rebuild my deck a bit and focus more on cards leaving my GY as well 🙂

olive folio
#

I never have mana issues in this deck. Only ever have card issues

remote birch
#

[[magosi water]]

modest lodgeBOT
remote birch
#

Any magosi enjoyers?

kind mulch
floral sigil
# kind mulch <@229389590065184779> And others What do u think of my upg deck atm? https://mox...

That'd definitely an improvement, but I think there's still a little bit more you could do. You're still missing any strong utility lands to search off cards like Crop Rotation or Wight of the Reliquary.

You've got very strong utility cards outside of your lands, and a couple of finishers like Tyvar and Craterhoof, but I'd personally want to see more cards that pressure and threaten your opponents in the midgame. Ob Nixilis the Fallen is a great example of the type of card I'm talking about, but there's more you could run. [[Mossborn Hydra]] immediately comes to mind as a low-investment, high-threat creature you could slot in pretty easily. [[Lumra, Bellow of the Woods]] and [[Mightform Harmonizer]] could also be nice choices

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

Got back evendo from the gy with teval. Literally stationed it to 13 immediately

unique path
#

Didn't get to untap with it died to the guy going before me

modern solar
#

How good is [[Lumra, Bellow of the Woods]] really? 🙂
Thinking about picking one up now since they are really trending at the moment?

modest lodgeBOT
olive folio
#

It's genuinely crazy

remote birch
#

Very strong card

unique path
glad sparrow
#

Two sets in a row with lands from graveyard themes makes lumra popular

#

I traded away my full art

modern solar
#

Okay I'm sold on it I just ordered Lumra 😄

opal patio
modern solar
#

Yeah mine should arrive tomorrow and I kinda like all the landfall support recently 👌

glad sparrow
#

I just traded away my full art lumra

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Hope I don't regret it

remote birch
unique path
glad sparrow
#

Price trend on lumra is wild

unique path
#

wow i think i bought mine for 10 bucks

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it went WAY up

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yea 10 bucks at end of june

opal patio
#

yep. theres the landfall stuff from Edge, and Earthbend from Avatar has some wild combos. Especially because it (earthbend) makes man lands, that return if they die. I think those are going to be kind of interesting for Teval, or ANY landfall deck for that matter

unique path
#

i might want a [[mightform harmonizer]] because with 3 land drops in a turn(including teval effect) you can commander damage someone immedietly.

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

and if they already took damage, you can do it with 2 lands for example

opal patio
#

its seeing play in other landfall decks right now. I know im testing it in one of mine.

unique path
#

wow lumra got put on the weekly winner list for MTG stocks. it did spike. crazy

glad sparrow
#

Yup that's what I was seeing

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The full art cocaine bear version like doubled in the UK

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Sadly I moved mine for half the price

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I found a spare lumra lying around so now I have two

modern solar
#

My latest Weekend Upgrades. Not sure how to feel about [[Aboleth Spawn]] but it could be insane 😮

IMG_1277.jpg
modest lodgeBOT
modern solar
#

Wait I just checked I bought my Lumra on the 24.08 for 19,99€ and now it is 65,80€ cheapest listing in Germany 😄

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Thinking about selling it immediatly to make +40€ 😄

glad sparrow
#

Yeah lumra is popping off

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I sadly traded my full art one away for not much

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And now it's doubled in price

modern solar
#

Yeah that happens MTG really is stock market 😮

remote birch
#

[[zimone and dina]]

modest lodgeBOT
remote birch
#

Seems like it could be a nice include

#

Sac a zombie draw 2 put two lands in play

unique path
#

Really good if you have something that draws you more cards consistently. Like rhystic. Or keple

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Kelpe

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Or itself

opal patio
#

anyone try out [[Seedship Broodtender]]

modest lodgeBOT
slender star
#

[[eye of nidhogg]] could be neat?

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
modest lodgeBOT
unique path
modest lodgeBOT
glad sparrow
#

Finally played Teval yesterday for the first time

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Untouched precon

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was an absolute menace at the table and held my own

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I feel like I could just build a whole teval list and it would be so strong...

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but maybe too strong for the pods I play in

glad sparrow
#

The teval I had theorycrafted before was just sultai landfall bullshit

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but I think I want to go a more reanimator route

glad sparrow
slender star
modern solar
#

Anyone tried [[Gyruda, Doom of Depths]] as a companion or in the 99? 😮

modest lodgeBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/iko/221/gyruda-doom-of-depths

Gyruda, Doom of Depths <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manaub:292901509056692224><:manaub:292901509056692224>

Legendary Creature — Demon Kraken
Companion — Your starting deck contains only cards with even mana values. (If this card is your chosen companion, you may put it into your hand from outside the game for mana3 as a sorcery.)
When Gyruda enters, each player mills four cards. Put a creature card with an even mana value from among the milled cards onto the battlefield under your control.
6/6

unique path
frigid edge
modern solar
floral sigil
unique path
#

For 5 you can cast living death. For 4 you can cast dread return twice

slender star
#

how many lands is everyone running now? i’m considering going down to 36 to squeeze in some other fun cards

unique path
#

I'm at like 34 or 35

frigid edge
#

33 raw lands, 38 including mdfcs

glad sparrow
#

Once again considering Teval. Maybe as just a pure reanimator/self mill deck rather than the landfall plan I was originally going to go with

unique path
#

There's some landfall stuff I have like mossborn and tayova and field of the dead

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But mostly mill is teval and reanimator is a by product of the mill.
I will say I have multiple ways to end the game
Not just infinite. Combat damage. Drain. Mill the table

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I think [[chatterfang]] and [[shifting woodland]] are probably some of the best cards in my deck

modest lodgeBOT
#

Multiple cards match “chatterfang”, can you be more specific?

unique path
#

Anyone using any new from newer sets?

unique path
#

so [[icetill explorer]] with [[collosal gravereaver]] and putting lands into play. holy moly. I cast living death got a lumra and those 2 out. with tatyova and river kelpe. draw 15. gain 6 life. mill 6 with icetill. bring 3 creatures back because each mill is each own trigger. disgusting

modest lodgeBOT
quaint sedge
#

[[Superior Spider-Man]] might have some legs in Teval

modest lodgeBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/spm/155/superior-spider-man

Superior Spider-Man <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Spider Human Hero
Mind Swap — You may have Superior Spider-Man enter as a copy of any creature card in a graveyard, except his name is Superior Spider-Man and he's a 4/4 Spider Human Hero in addition to his other types. When you do, exile that card.
"I will be Spider-Man. With my unparalleled genius, I shall become the Superior Spider-Man." —Otto Octavius
4/4

opal patio
#

Running Icetill Explorer, looking to pick up a [[the soul stone]] this weekend

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

Yea it's pretty easy to get to 7 mana and a zombie to exile to get the harness ability

#

Turn 5 is probably very doable turn 4 if you have sol ring

opal patio
#

Even before that, it's still a usable card, sure it goes -1 on its first turn, but at least it still taps for mana outside of that, it's not just sitting around doing nothing

unique path
#

Well yea it's a 2 cmc mana rock that comes in untapped and is indestructible. Sometimes artifacts get destroyed. Ita a great card

floral sigil
#

Instead of cutting lands to run more "fun cards" you should just run more fun lands!

opal patio
floral sigil
#

Oh yeah, there's so many good ones that synergize with Teval or make the deck more interesting.

A few of my favorites are [[Talong gates of Madara]], [[Lazotep Quarry]], [[Shifting Woodlands]], and [[Soaring Seacliff]]]

modest lodgeBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/79/lazotep-quarry

Lazotep Quarry

Land — Desert
manat: Add manac.
manat, Sacrifice a creature: Add one mana of any color.
manaxmana2, manat, Sacrifice a Desert: Exile target creature card with mana value X from your graveyard. Create a token that's a copy of it, except it's a 4/4 black Zombie. Activate only as a sorcery.

opal patio
#

well if you arent running those already, what are you doing...well maybe except Soaring Seaclif but still

floral sigil
#

Sure, fair enough. I suppose most people are splashing them. But then, if you want to run a deck that really focuses on the lands, you should also run ways to recycle these effects. Bounce lands and lands that sac other lands when they enter are a good way to do this, but then you also have stuff like [[vesuva]] and [[echoing deeps]] to copy their effects

modest lodgeBOT
floral sigil
#

Plus ways to put lands on the field at instant speed like wight of the reliquary and crop rotation

unique path
#

I need a lazotep quarry actually. One of the lands that is a banger for teval

opal patio
slender star
#

i need some alternative wincons other than scute swarm, craterhoof and moss born hydra. any other suggestions?

unique path
#

[[mirkwood bats]] [[syr konrad]] [[ayara]]

modest lodgeBOT
#

Multiple cards match “syr konrad”, can you be more specific?

#

Multiple cards match “ayara”, can you be more specific?

unique path
#

[[syr konrad the grim]]

modest lodgeBOT
slender star
#

i have those wincons in my other deck, maybe i should go tall?

unique path
#

You can do whatever style you want. There's a guy in edge of eternity that doubles power of any creature on land etb

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You can kill someone with 3 land drops with teval in one hit

#

You can also use for your mossborn hydra also

floral sigil
modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

[[Might form harmonizer]] for going tall

modest lodgeBOT
opal patio
#

Holy power creep batman:

Screenshot_20250928_135409_Discord.jpg
glad sparrow
#

What the heck

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Also I once again want to build teval

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Not sure if I'm gonna do reanimator or land shenanigans

modern solar
glad sparrow
#

I think land is really strong but idk how to win without just being simic with black

modern solar
#

I dont like the Lands matter Strategy much and also already have a Landfall Deck in Abzan so yeah xD
Want to make Reanimator work which seems possible already won a few games 🙂

unique path
modest lodgeBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/40k/7/magus-lucea-kane

Magus Lucea Kane <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manag:292901508654301185><:manau:292901508754702338><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Creature — Human Tyranid Wizard
Spiritual Leader — At the beginning of combat on your turn, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.
Psychic Stimulus — manat: Add manacmanac. When you next cast a spell with manax in its mana cost or activate an ability with manax in its activation cost this turn, copy that spell or ability. You may choose new targets for the copy. (A copy of a permanent spell becomes a token.)
1/1

unique path
#

Also good in elfball for sure

#

Throwing in lathril probably

glad sparrow
#

I feel like lands matter teval is just so good

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If you can get some card draw going

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I wanna see crab + hedge shredder shenanigans

opal patio
frigid cairn
#

Tfw can never move from land matter because I unfortunately pulled both traveling chocobo and icetill lmao

acoustic dagger
#

I had traveling Chocobo but since it didn’t double Tevals triggers it usually ended up being something that didn’t change the game for me much has anyone else had good luck with it in Teval?

glad sparrow
#

It's a tiny bit of card advantage

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I am thinking of turning my zimone into teval

floral sigil
glad sparrow
#

This is my landfall teval which probably could benefit from it

unique path
glad sparrow
#

I keep wanting to make sultai reanimator but I keep ending up making sultai lands matter...

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Which strat works best with teval? The ramp on commander is so good

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I just want self-mill with [[Colossal Grave-Reaver]], [[Hedron Crab]] and [[Hedge Shredder]]

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
acoustic dagger
#

Sultai reanimator instead of landmatters may make better work of [[lotuslight Dancers]] than a lands matter version of Teval just a thought

modest lodgeBOT
acoustic dagger
#

I tried to make that card work but I just didn’t have enough recursion to pull more than 1-2 of the targets out and I feel like you really want to be hitting all 3 of the cards you target with lotuslight dancers

unique path
modest lodgeBOT
opal patio
floral sigil
# acoustic dagger I tried to make that card work but I just didn’t have enough recursion to pull m...

I don’t think I agree with this idea btw. You don’t need to recur all 3 cards for Lotuslight to have value. Sometimes the value comes from having access to a wider array of options that you pick from. For example, if you use dancers to send a ramp card, a draw card, and a removal card, then you’re now prepared for 3 different situations, but you might only end up in a situation where one of those is actually useful. But at least you will have the flexibility to be prepared for any of those 3 situations

unique path
#

way easier to get creatures back

floral sigil
#

Sure, but I feel like that's a given regardless of what cards you send or what you use to send them. The point I was trying to make is that spending 5 mana to tutor 3 cards to your GY can still be a good investment even if you don't recur all 3 of them

unique path
#

It seems steep to be

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It is a body so that's nice

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You have realms uncharted for 3 for any 3 lands
There's a creature version of that

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There's buried alive. Gifts

unique path
#

I realize now what I'm saying might be discouraging. The dancers are a good body and have lifelink. And you can get that etb multiple times with recursion

unique path
#

played a game where i cast spelunking. put down evendo. station for 12. make 9 mana. hard cast grave reaver. mill 3 bring back lumra. had ayara out with field and made 12 zombies. forgot my 14 draw triggers for river kelpe. good board state no wipes happened all game

opal patio
#

Oh nvm

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I read it as "ayara out on the field" not "ayara out with FotD"

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We should probably not use "field" and "field" lol

unique path
#

Also cast [[amphibian downpour]] for storm count of 6 I'm keeping in the deck

modest lodgeBOT
opal patio
#

thats such a weird card to keep in the deck. I guess at least as a counter its fine

unique path
#

Yea it's unconventional. For 3 mana you can get at least 2 important creatures to get fucked if not more

slender star
#

i’m gonna try to fit in a surveil subtheme into this deck with cards like [[uurg, spawn of turg]] [[cephalid inkmage]] [[izoni, center of the web]], could be a good way to stuff the graveyard and some alt win cons

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
modest lodgeBOT
slender star
glad sparrow
#

Yawg is great as card draw from all the zombies

glad sparrow
#

And with gravecrawler

modern solar
#

How much zombies you usually make with teval tho? 😮
I played my list yesterday again and only made like 3 Zombies and after that teval got removed but never recast him and was going to combo with aftermath analyst and ob nixilis with 28 lands in Gy 😄

glad sparrow
#

Yeah I like sultai generic graveyard bollocks because it's not commander dependent

modern solar
#

Yes I know I need more ramp to get teval out early but honestly milling myself a bunch and reanimate just good stuff or even assemble a combo is to much fun

slender star
#

[[bygone marvels]] is another addition i’d like to try

modest lodgeBOT
slender star
#

if you can descend 8, that’s 3 zombies and bringing back 3 creatures to your hand

unique path
unique path
unique path
#

I've had such huge success with
[[Incarnation technique]] that I'm seriously debating throwing in [[Healing technique]]

modest lodgeBOT
opal patio
unique path
#

But there's a creature for that. I forget the name. It's a snake

glad sparrow
#

Anyone looked at [[peerless recycling]] for Teval?

modest lodgeBOT
glad sparrow
#

I love it in bumbleflower as recursion

frigid edge
#

[[Bala ged recovery]] is probably better

modest lodgeBOT
opal patio
#

I know some of the lists use Bala Ged, but it is a MDFC sorcery, vs instant. I have seeen Peerless on a few lists when i look around, but its normally on 'upgraded precon' type lists

unique path
#

[[Auroral procession]]

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

Peerless good it's perm only but still pretty great. And you can get a second copy

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Well 2 targets not a second copy

opal patio
#

i run Auroral

frigid cairn
#

Didn't realize this is instant, that's nice

opal patio
kind mulch
#

What can i change in my deck? Is a Teval landfall reanimator

unique path
modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

also [[warren soul trader]] probably pretty ok. cthonian nightmare is bonkers.

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

[[rise of the witch king]] lets you sac and get something back at the same time

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

if you want ETB effects to double for your retreat and vinelasher and other stuff i would reccomend
[[panharmonicon]] or [[yarok the desecrated]] or both

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

probably yarok because it's permanent not just artifact or creature ETB

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i played a game today and i squeaked it out with 8 hp. killed one guy because he kept targetting my board(one turn 3 exiles on 3 separate creatures)
cast teval 1x the whole game never got to attack. left him in command zone. konrad helped me win with collosal gravereaver and finished off the game with a altar of dementia milling myself and pinging with konrad

frigid cairn
#

[[starfield vocalist]]

modest lodgeBOT
frigid cairn
#

This was in eoe btw and is like 1 buck and a half rn, and you can cheat it out with only 2 mana

unique path
#

That's pretty good

opal patio
# unique path That's pretty good

while i dont run it currently (its on my 'sideboard'), i like it because with FotD and at least 1 teval (not counting spark double) you can get so many zombies. Its mainly really good with FotD and a Lumra-return-all-lands effect

modern solar
#

Hello there 🙂

Had a blast playing this deck the last days but I was wondering if there is a nice combo for teval players?
I currently win most of the time with [[Syr Konrad, the Grim]] to drain everyone with Living Death OR if I mill myself or other people. Another wincon of mine is [[Lumra, Bellow of the Woods]] + [[Ob Nixilis, the Fallen]]

Also I wanted to ask for advice I want to make it more go wide and maybe also include [[Zuran Orb]] for more value?

https://archidekt.com/decks/12167171/sultai_graveyard

Archidekt
Sultai Graveyard • (Sultai Commander deck) • Archidekt

Teval, the Balanced Scale - Commander deck

(1) Commander • (7) Artifact • (30) Creature • (6) Enchantment • (9) Instant • (37) Land • (10) Sorcery

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

Also phyrexian altar with gravecrawler and teval. Make infinite etb and ddesth triggers

#

Ayara/konrad kills the table that way

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Or any drian effects

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[[Colossal gravereaver]] and altar of dementia mill yourself keep bringing creatures back out. Ping with konrad

modest lodgeBOT
modern solar
#

Uh nice I will adapt my Deck currently I think I will cut Mystic Remora, Afterlife from the Loam & Eldritch Evolution maybe.
Is anyone here on Zuran Orb is it any good?
@unique path do you have a current List of yours? 🙂

unique path
#

mine's not updated

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i would keep life from the loam. cut mystic for sure

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zuran orb is great. if you have aftermath analyst and shifting woodlands you pretty much go infinite with spelunking or anything that says your lands etb untapped

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if you really wanted to get dirty you could go infite with [[squandered resources]] and aftermath and shifting woodlands

modest lodgeBOT
modern solar
#

I already play Aftermath Analyst and shifting woodlands yes and mystic will be cut for spelunking yes 🙂
How to go infinite with aftermath and shifting woodlands?

unique path
#

turn shifting woodlands into aftermath if it's in the GY. sac all lands to squandered to make mana, use aftermath ability to bring all lands back into play. if you have spelunking they all enter untapped. you loop. if you have squandered to sac to it doesn't matter if they are tapped or not

#

you need a land sac outlet though. so zuran orb or squandered. there are others but those are the easiest

modern solar
#

Aaaaah okay nice weird this is my first deck where I dont win through combat 😮

unique path
#

It's really hard to win through combat against 3 others

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Drain/ping damage is probably my favorite way to kill a table

modern solar
#

Yeah I play Dinos which is easier to kill the table as well as a token Deck with an overrun 🙂

unique path
#

[[mightform harmonizer]] threw this into the deck. if i get 3 land etb's i can 1 shot someone. if i get 2 i can do 16 with teval and put someone on a 2 turn clock. will see how it goes

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

also threw [[archfiend of ifnir]] back into the deck. i really liked the extra mill and getting any creature back every turn

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

wrong one

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[[lost monarch of ifnir]]

modest lodgeBOT
glad sparrow
#

I'm going back to thinking about Teval, mixed reanimator + lands self mill shenanigans probably

modern solar
#

Is this a potential Teval card?
[[Elemental Teachings]]

modest lodgeBOT
glad sparrow
#

Seems decent. 5 mana ramp 2 but also put 2 into gy

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And not basic

unique path
modest lodgeBOT
unique path
#

If you have this opening hand you can turn 3 it and drop a land turn 4

modern solar
floral sigil
#

So, this wouldn't really fit in my deck, but for those of you playing a more token themed build, what do you think of this land: [[Eumidian Hatchery]]

modest lodgeBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/eoc/20/eumidian-hatchery

Eumidian Hatchery

Land
manat, Pay 1 life: Add manab. Put a hatchling counter on this land.
When this land is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, for each hatchling counter on it, create a 1/1 black Insect creature token with flying.
Eumidians do their work knowing that only future generations will see it finished.

unique path
#

Really good if you have lands sac outlet

shut cargo
#

Guys

#

Should I buy the teval precon

floral sigil
#

That really depends on how many cards from the precon you plan to use. If you want the deck for what it is, then sure. Its a fun precon. But if you want to build your own teval deck and you are just using the precon as a starting point, then you should plan out your final build first and figure out if you're using enough cards from the precon for it to be cost effective. I bought the precon as the starting point for my deck, and I honestly regret it. I only use like 20 cards from it in my final build. I would have saved money if I just bought the singles

modern solar
unique path
#

I say yes because lots of the cards you can use elsewhere

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How much is it

unique path
#

I don't regret it at all - buying the precon

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It was 45 bucks and worth it 100%

modern solar
#

I just updated my Decklist with some swaps but I wanna bump my land count up to 38 Cards and for the future I will add Phyrexian Altar and Gravecrawler for a potential 3 Card Combo with Teval?

Which two cards would you personally cut for the combo and which two cards for now to add lands and is there any land I'm missing other than Field of the Dead?

May someone have a look and leave advice? 🙂
Decklist: https://archidekt.com/decks/12167171/compost_king_you_cant_do_this_to_me_after_everything_ive_milled

Also what do we think of [[Noxious Revival]] in a heavy self mill shell?

Archidekt
Compost King - You Can’t Do This to Me … After Everything I’v...

Teval, the Balanced Scale - Commander deck

(1) Commander • (7) Artifact • (34) Creature • (6) Enchantment • (7) Instant • (36) Land • (10) Sorcery

modest lodgeBOT
floral sigil
# modern solar I just updated my Decklist with some swaps but I wanna bump my land count up to ...

So, not to rehash old arguments, but with the last update to the bracket system, we got a new definition for what counts as a "2 card combo." The define it as Game-enders, lockouts, or infinites. So if you have 2 cards that go infinite with each other before turn 6, that should be in bracket 4. So I'm much more confident in saying that Gravecrawler + Phyrexian Alter should not be played in bracket 3. Because I wouldn't count "control literally any zombie" as a 3rd card as far as a combo is concerned. If you disagree with that and are confident you want to put this combo in a bracket 3 deck then at the very least please be sure to discuss it with your table in a pre-game chat. I would see it as underhanded to try and do something like that without discussion

modern solar
floral sigil
unique path
# floral sigil So, not to rehash old arguments, but with the last update to the bracket system,...

I have the combo in my b3 deck.
It doesn't bother me for 2 reasons. One with teval out making a zombie every time I recast grave crawler I get another one. So far it's just infinite mana if I sac the other zombie for any thing after I recast gravecrawler.
So that's 3 pieces.
To win I'll need drain. Konrad. Ayara. Zulaport or something similar.
Even with a Warren soul trader you need a 3rd piece to drain the table.
@modern solar for those reasons I run it among other combos and no one really cares from my experience

#

I also run altar of dementia, screams from Within, and teval is piece 3 and you need 2 separate creatures that aren't teval to mill the table with that combo.
And there's plenty of interaction points

floral sigil
unique path
#

Sure. But we are at a minimum of 3 cards for both scenarios

floral sigil
#

Like I said, I don't think "literally any other zombie" counts as a card for the combo, because its too generic of a condition that you can easily fulfil

unique path
#

i understand, we disagree there. teval deck is going to have zombie tokens readily accessible. so you need to set up. so at a minimum teval is the combo piece that's number 3, because even if you sac grave crawler to itself to recast itself, you need another zombie to come out to go infinite.
you can say the condition is trivial but without the condition the infinite literally doesn't exist. the condition is the 3rd card/piece if it's a token

#

and that's without any payoff to the "combo" at that point it's a loop. not a combo. because it doesn't go anywhere, it just loops. it doesn't advance the game in any way

modern solar
unique path
#

The game ender requires something like syr konrad or ayara or Zulaport to say hey when this enters or dies everyone take a form of damage or lifeloss

#

That's the end of the game if no one has responded to the demonstrated loop to end the game

#

There are so many possibilities for people to interact as well.
They can kill teval. They can blow up phyrexian altar. They can exile the gy.

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And they can do that for example like this. You have your combo out. You sac crawler for mana. There's a damage or lifeloss trigger on the stack. You can kill the thing making you lose life. You can destroy altar. You can exile the gy while that trigger is on the stack. Or just the crawler.

floral sigil
# unique path and that's without any payoff to the "combo" at that point it's a loop. not a co...

Payoffs are their own thing. The WOTC definition of a "2 card combo" lists "game enders" and "infinites" as 2 different types of combos. So if something requires 2 cards to produce an infinite number of game actions, that is a 2 card combo, even if there is no payoff. Because its still creating trigger events that other cards can react to.

We've had this conversation dozens of times at this point, so I really don't feel the need to get back into it. It seems like you don't care about the clarification that WOTC posted in the bracket article, so you do you I suppose. I wouldn't allow it at my bracket 3 table, but we don't have to play together dndLol I just wanted to point it out to Ceto_ because of the update article

unique path
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you are right we don't have to go in circles. and I need to go look at that update arcticle

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no 2 card combos before turn 6. so you can have it if it's turn 6 or after. which seems reasonable

Brackets-10.21.25.png
modern solar
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Okay sorry for the discussion haha 😄
Anyway I dont care either what WOTC states I just talk to my playgroup thats it 🙂
Make Commander fun and not a rule book thats the point .. if you wanna play competitive sure know the rules 🙂

But anyway what do we think about / did anyone try cards like:
[[Noxious Revival]] or [[Retreat to Hagra]]

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
floral sigil
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Noxious Revival is a card I’ve considered a few times, but I’ve never felt the need to run it. [[Mortuary Mire]] is pretty easy to tutor for and retrigger if it’s already on the field

modest lodgeBOT
glad sparrow
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Gravecrawler + Phyrexian Altar seems like a pretty reasonable bracket 3 combo

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Next you'll be telling me [[alphetto alchemist]] shouldn't be allowed in bracket 3 because it's an infinite combo

modest lodgeBOT
glad sparrow
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Or [[basalt monolith]]

modest lodgeBOT
glad sparrow
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Where in the article does it even "clarify" the definition of combos? I don't see it but I might just be missing it

unique path
unique path
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Anyone have thoughts about
[[Doubling season]] for more zombies or other tokens

modest lodgeBOT
floral sigil
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Feels extremely win-more. Doubling Season works best in decks that make more than one token per game action. Like with [[Avenger of Zendikar]] or something like that. If you’re just doubling a trigger that makes a single token, you’re better off just doing something that triggers that ability again, rather than paying 5 mana for an extra 1-2 tokens

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
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Roaming throne but meh

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i threw in [[willow giest]] and [[pull through the weft]] to see how i like them

modest lodgeBOT
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No card found for “willow giest”

unique path
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[[willow geist]]

modest lodgeBOT
floral sigil
glad sparrow
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Even then I would suggest [[parallel lives]] first since you only care about the token

modest lodgeBOT
glad sparrow
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Thinking about b4 teval - can it actually hang in b4? I feel like fast wins aren't super doable with teval as it's generally a value engine

unique path
floral sigil
# glad sparrow Thinking about b4 teval - can it actually hang in b4? I feel like fast wins aren...

So 1st off, its important to remember that bracket 4 is a spectrum of power levels, just like any bracket. There are plenty of pods that play bracket 4 without using 100% perfectly optimized, sub-CEDH decks. Any commander can be built as a bracket 4 deck, and if you find a pod that plays at the power level you want to play at, then it will be just fine. That being said, Teval is a very strong commander and you can certainly build it as fully optimized if you wanted to. Lands strategies in general are still very strong in bracket 4, and Teval is just one of the best lands commanders. Kyoshi is right that a fully optimized teval deck is going to be a combo deck, with multiple play lines for what type of combo you can execute. Teval can help facilitate some of those combos, but just in general for commander, the higher power level you play at, the less and less the commander actually matters. Its mostly going to come down to how optimized and streamlined your 99 is

glad sparrow
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(Meaning like, generic grixis commander and breach lines)

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Sultai combos are a bit different but still good

floral sigil
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If you really want it to be as optimized as possible, I think Teval could make a decent bracket 4 thoracle commander. Demonic Consultation + Thoracle is probably not ok in most bracket 4 pods, but if you're already playing a self mill strategy its probably not that hard to find a way to mill your whole deck and then play throacle. Like if you use [[Hedron Crab]] + [[Hedge Shredder]] or [[Underrealm Lich]] + [[The Gitrog Monster]]

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
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I second that when I played gitrog and underrealm in muldrotha high power I could mill my deck if I wanted it's bonkers

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For bracket 4 you probably want to do the squandered resources, shifting woodland, aftermath analyst loop

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Among other things

opal patio
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been thinking about [[beifong's bounty hunters]] specifically when we create a zombie, then we sac the zombie, earthbend a land, sac the land, land hits yard, then comes back, creating a zombie, triggering landfall for any of the landfall triggers, or lands/cards leaving yard, or any creatures dieing.

i know its not a perfect synergy (mainly because we need more creature saccing to kill the zombie tokens), but i think it could be an interesting way to loop those effects

modest lodgeBOT
unique path
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That's an infinite combo right there

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Lots of avatar earthbend stuff is pretty insane for teval

glad sparrow
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Earthbending and Ashaya create crazy combo potential

floral sigil
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I’ve honestly been thinking I should rebuild Teval from the ground up with the new avatar stuff. Earthbending is oblivious insanely good, but there’s also a lot of other synergy around stuff like landfall, sacrificing, power 4 or greater matters, etc

opal patio
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the power 4 or greater has me intrigued as well

floral sigil
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The only thing I’m on the fence about is wether I should give the avatar treatment to Teval or [[Szarel, Genesis Shepard]]

modest lodgeBOT
frigid edge
opal patio
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ahh im running Hearthhull instead

floral sigil
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I think Szarel makes a little more sense as an earth bending commander because of the colors, but it would improve my Teval list a fair bit as well

frigid edge
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I think most of the green etb earthbends go in both. [[Toph earthbending master]] likely goes in both as well