You'll have at least 4 to 5 cards in the deck that will say island or mountain or forest
#TEVAL BREW LETS GO
thorn cosmos
proper creek
I thought the rules of commander is that I can't play any cards that have like a different color identity compare to the commander... unless land color are exempt from that
thorn cosmos
I thought the rules of commander is that I can't play any cards that have like a...
Fetches have words not symbols. They say forest CARD
proper creek
Oh....
thorn cosmos
[[Windswept heath]]
smoky scarabBOT
Land
, Pay 1 life, Sacrifice this land: Search your library for a Forest or Plains card, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle.
An underground paradise, bright and thriving beneath the surface of Ixalan.
thorn cosmos
You can get zagoth triome with that
And breeding pool. And overgrown tomb
And a forest
proper creek
I'm still new so I haven't been able to pay much attention to land type but geez...
thorn cosmos
I'm still new so I haven't been able to pay much attention to land type but geez...
Glad I could help! Feel free to ask questions
proper creek
The non forest options are still too much for my budget though www
broken hornet
Lands are colourless unless they have a basic land type or a symbol in their text box
thorn cosmos
The non forest options are still too much for my budget though www
Takes time to build out a deck. My first deck was 150 budget. It's 6k now lol
broken hornet
My decks hover $1200 AUD in cost
proper creek
Ough
I'm not comfortable spending that much on my first 2 month!! I hope a lot of those are like staples level you used across multiples
proper creek
Yeah I do hear most of the cost is in refining manabases
Refining my mamabase by playing a single bayou
broken hornet
Yeah so don't stress to much about cost
And wotc has been doing a good job of making mana bases cheaper to build
They've been aggressiving printing variations of dual lands in every commander deck they can
The pain lands being in every deck is crazy good
And they're printing the 2 cmc ramp spells alot more often too
Alongside more consistent reprints of shocks and fetches
thorn cosmos
I'm not comfortable spending that much on my first 2 month!! I hope a lot of tho...
Spend what you want. Proxies are great. 6kwas after 8 years
Good mana base is probably most important thing to make a deck run smooth
proper creek
Yee
broken hornet
Good mana base is probably most important thing to make a deck run smooth
And it's easier and cheaper than ever
When triomes get printed into commander products we will eat insanely well
proper creek
Triome like opulent palace...?
broken hornet
No the ones with land types that cycle for 3 mana
proper creek
Oh the ones I saw in ikoria then?
broken hornet
Yes
What it might take is something similar to what happened with the pain lands where they just put them in a set that will be heavily opened and reprint them to death that way
And then put them in commander products while the price is low and keep reprinting them like that
thorn cosmos
Triome like opulent palace...?
[[Zagoth triome]]
smoky scarabBOT
Land — Swamp Forest Island
(: Add 
, 
, or 
.)
This land enters tapped.
Cycling 
(, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
Hunters in the primeval wetlands become fluent in reading the ripples to tell when to pursue and when to flee.
thorn cosmos
You can get this with a fetch like misty rainforest pr windswept heath
broken hornet
Yeah they know the ones I was talking about
They themselves mentioned "oh the ones from ikoria"
thorn cosmos
Wanted to show the specific one. Turn 1 triome is pro
thorn cosmos
[[ainok wayfarer]] better than satyr wayfinder because it gives a zombie and actually mills?
smoky scarabBOT
austere dew
[[ainok wayfarer]] better than satyr wayfinder because it gives a zombie and act...
In a 1-to-1 comparison, yeah it definitely is. Though I'm not convinced that either of them are worth a deck slot. But if you had to pick one, yeah Ainok wins
thorn cosmos
i can cut him but i would want another slot for mana something. like a deathrite or molt tender
do you guys think [[seaons past]] is worth running
smoky scarabBOT
austere dew
No, definitely not. Teval triggers when one or more cards leave your GY, so this card will only make 1 zombie token no matter how many things you target. And for 6 mana, they only go to your hand, which means there's a very high likelihood that you'll have to wait until next turn to actually cast any of it
thorn cosmos
Play tested [[fiend artisan]] it lets you get wight of Reliquary. E wit. I paid 9 to get the grave reaver. Kinda busted
smoky scarabBOT
Creature — Nightmare
This creature gets +1/+1 for each creature card in your graveyard.
, , Sacrifice another creature: Search your library for a creature card with mana value X or less, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle. Activate only as a sorcery.
1/1
austere dew
As a heads up, a bunch of the staples for this deck got added to the gamechanger list today, so everyone should double checkt their decks to make sure you still fit within the bracket you want to play
thorn cosmos
That's out already? I missed it?
austere dew
thorn cosmos
Uh. I expected field. Not crop rotation
austere dew
I didn’t expect crop rotation either, but in all honesty I think it makes sense
thorn cosmos
I have to decide between chasm. Field. Cradle. And crop rotation now. Hmm.
I can live without crop rotation kinda because wight of reliquary
I can't not have field. Cradle I want to stay. Chasm helped me win one game. Crop rotation is good for any land. I might give up crop
Or chasm
austere dew
Well, I think removing chasm would be the best option for the fun and smoothness of the deck, but you already know my bias against that card so I won’t weigh in any more than that. If you wanted to focus more of Wight of the Reliquary instead of crop rotation, I would recommend running cards that can tutor wight from the deck, like [[Finale of Devastation]] or [[Green Sun’s Zenith]]
thorn cosmos
Well, I think removing chasm would be the best option for the fun and smoothness...
[[Slyvan scrying]] will probably replace crop. But I'm not sure. Chasm can go honestly it's just nice to not get domed in the head and not have answers
smoky scarabBOT
thorn cosmos
Actually I have constant mists
austere dew
Replacing crop rotation with sylvan scrying kinda misses what makes crop rotation good, imo. I’d rather see you replace it with something that costs more mana but does the same effect, like [[Urza’s Cave]]
smoky scarabBOT
Land — Urza's Cave
: Add 
.
, , Sacrifice this land: Search your library for a land card, put it onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle.
No matter how deep Urza delved, he couldn't escape his regrets.
thorn cosmos
That's a good point
[[Elvish reclaimer]] might be the play but it's 4 mana. But let's me get anything with a fetch
smoky scarabBOT
Creature — Elf Warrior
This creature gets +2/+2 as long as there are three or more land cards in your graveyard.
, , Sacrifice a land: Search your library for a land card, put it onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle.
1/2
thorn cosmos
Oh not that one but that's good
Or [[roothpath purifier]] I'm leaning towards reclaimer
smoky scarabBOT
thorn cosmos
I'm getting a elvish reclaimer
I'll keep my 3 lands and cut crop
Any need for [[emergence zone]]
smoky scarabBOT
Land
: Add .
, , Sacrifice this land: You may cast spells this turn as though they had flash.
The Planar Bridge opened over the Chamber of the Guildpact, reducing the symbol of Ravnica's endurance to rubble.
austere dew
I really don't think there is any reason to run it, but if you do want that effect, I think [[Alchemist's Refuge]] would be better
smoky scarabBOT
Land
: Add .
, : You may cast spells this turn as though they had flash.
Persecuted alchemists fled deep into Kessig's wilds, seeking solitude to continue their ghoulish craft.
broken hornet
I legit wasn't running crop so my list got bumped up to exactly 3 game changers lmao
austere dew
My list went from 0 to 2 (crop rotation and worldly tutor), but that seems just about right for where I wanted the deck's power level to be.
broken hornet
I had fierce guardianship and cyclonic rift before and now I also have field of the dead (which I wanted and expected to be a game changer)
austere dew
hmmm... Maybe I should add Cyc Rift to my deck. My concern is that its a little bit more powerful than what I want my deck to be, but at the same time it would certainly help me close out games faster and more consistantly, which is really what I want this deck to do
broken hornet
I mean it's just a really strong boardwipe
austere dew
Sure, but it also has a bit of connotation/reputation as an unfun card, and I want to keep my deck "friendly" so that I can use it in more casual games
broken hornet
Fair, it's also worth noting you don't hace to have 3 game changers
austere dew
yeah I know. I mean, I was playing with 0 before today's update
glad heart
My list went from 0 to 2 (crop rotation and worldly tutor), but that seems just ...
Mine went from 3 to 5
broken hornet
Mine went from 3 to 5
glad heart
Ancient tomb
CR
Cradle
FotD
Glacial Chasm
broken hornet
Field of the dead deserved it
glad heart
Thing is, my deck is still extremely slow
glad heart
Field of the dead deserved it
Oh I'm not denying that in any way
So idk if my deck can...realistically hang in a B4 pod
austere dew
There's a big difference between "overtuned for B3" and an actual B4 deck. It seems like you deck is the former
glad heart
I'll have to do the unthinkable
broken hornet
So idk if my deck can...realistically hang in a B4 pod
Well you have 4 options
Play it as is in bracket 4
Upgrade it for bracket 4
Downgrade the amount of game changers to fit bracket 3
Or talk to your table to see if they are okay with it
glad heart
Actually TALK to my pods and explain the decks gameplan and when I plan to attempt a win
The HORROR
Socializing in a social game!
broken hornet
The **HORROR**
There are people who are actually horrified by this
glad heart
There are people who are actually horrified by this
Then they should probably play a different format?
I know social anxiety is a thing
glad heart
I have it, but only in large crowds, but if you can't explain your deck to 3 other people, commander rlly isn't for you
broken hornet
No I'm talking the bad actors
The "brackets are rules as written" and not a guide for expectations that you are meant to use to talk before a game to set expectations and see if everyone is happy with a game to proceed
Ive had enough arguments with people over this to have it be pretty obvious that people don't want to understand the point and are horrified that commander is vibes based
Also the fact that Gavin literally said what I had been telling people for months in arguments is really telling that I am right
glad heart
I've always said the bracket system is a guideline first, and last
It is not an end all be all, it's a tool to HELP balance levels of play, not set the terms of them
broken hornet
Exactly
glad heart
Setting the terms, is what we call the RULE 0
broken hornet
People are lazy which is the biggest problem
glad heart
Say hello, hug a friend or smth, and say what kinda game your looking for
austere dew
The "brackets are rules as written" and not a guide for expectations that you ar...
The good news is, today's article should make that a little more clear:
the bracket system is emphatically not just "put your deck into a calculator, get assigned a rank, and be ready to play."
And if not, it will at the very least provide you with more tools to have that discussion with other people:
glad heart
Hell if you wanna get real freaky, give someone some snacks
They'll 100% use some counter magic or removal to help you during the game if you do
(I totally don't bribe my blue players with food to let my spells resolve)
broken hornet
(I totally don't bribe my blue players with food to let my spells resolve)
Politics and bribery is based and valid
glad heart
Politics and bribery is based and valid
It's also funny af
I love my Galadrial politics deck
70% of my spells are table wide vote effects XD
With some ways of...."incentivizing" everyone to vote with me
broken hornet
The good news is, today's article should make that a little more clear:
> the b...
Literally this. It saves me the headache
broken hornet
With some ways of...."incentivizing" everyone to vote with me
Everyone is your enemy until they aren't and then until they are
glad heart
Everyone is your enemy until they aren't and then until they are
It's the only deck I've ever had EVERYONE take the tempt with tempt with discovery
The competitive player in me was screaming while I was just beaming on the outside
broken hornet
Xdddddddddd
I suggested running urzas glasses and just mixing up lying about people's hands and telling the truth
And just setting the table on each other in game
austere dew
I suggested running urzas glasses and just mixing up lying about people's hands ...
I run urza's glasses in my [[Marchesa, Dealer of Death]] deck, and I unironically do this sometimes
wooden lanceBOT
Long May She Reign! :crown:
smoky scarabBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Rogue
Whenever you commit a crime, you may pay . If you do, look at the top two cards of your library. Put one of them into your hand and the other into your graveyard. (Targeting opponents, anything they control, and/or cards in their graveyards is a crime.)
"You should have folded when you had the chance."
3/4
broken hornet
Politics is a valid strategy and j will not let people say it's not
glad heart
I suggested running urzas glasses and just mixing up lying about people's hands ...
Ghost
Get out
Of my head
Cause that's already in the fucking deck lmao
I am CONSTANTLY gas lighting the table
And it's fitting
Galadriel is 100% a Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girlboss typa lady
broken hornet
I am CONSTANTLY gas lighting the table
Gaslight, gatekeep, girl boss bish
That's the dream
That's my dream
I girlboss
glad heart
I can't say I girlboss with the deck
For two reasons
One, I have male anatomy and identify as a male
Two, the deck has never won once
Once it gets down to a 1v1, it just kinda crumbles to dust. But it's always a fun ride
broken hornet
The way I see it white girl wasted and girlbossinf are states of mind
You can do what ever you want
thorn cosmos
hmmm... Maybe I should add Cyc Rift to my deck. My concern is that its a little ...
its 100% worth offensively and defensivley. and i was thinking about it myself before today
i'm going to stick to the rule of 3 GCs and play in 3's because i have standards for myself and want to be a good steward of MTG and a likeable player
i have 3's with no GC(lucea kane)? and she can nuke a table despite being a 2 on paper. so i think it's fine for me to just drop to 3 total. just gonna get a elvish reclaimer and call it a day
austere dew
yeah, I think you're right. I've been wanting to add some more evasion to my deck so my big creatures can get in for lethal, and there's no better form of evasion than a 1 sided board wipe 
thorn cosmos
my concern in the future is they will add more GC's and brakcet 3 will be like, 2 but with 3 GC's and 4's where the fun will be
thorn cosmos
yeah, I think you're right. I've been wanting to add some more evasion to my dec...
you can play [[season of weaving]] and keep your tokens and swing out if you wanted as well
smoky scarabBOT
Sorcery
Choose up to five 
worth of modes. You may choose the same mode more than once.
— Draw a card.
— Choose an artifact or creature you control. Create a token that's a copy of it.
— Return each nonland, nontoken permanent to its owner's hand.
austere dew
I'm not playing a token deck. I actively dislike go wide strategies
thorn cosmos
well i understand, but it can be a wipe that's not a GC
you are making tokens passively weather you want to or not. so it's a way to use them for an edge
plus you can make a teval copy and bounce the board and hold the real one in hand
broken hornet
I'm not playing a token deck. I actively dislike go wide strategies
I like go wide strats
Please tell me people understnad
austere dew
well i understand, but it can be a wipe that's not a GC
So, there are 2 main reasons why I don't think that would work for my deck
- You have the ability to use this as an offensive board wipe, whereas for me it could only be defensive
- The main strategy of my deck is to go tall, with specific very big creatures. Many of these, like Ob Nixilis and Mossborn Hydra, would get completely reset by being bounced to my hand, even if that is what I make a token copy of, because they would lose all their +1/+1 counters
thorn cosmos
great point
broken hornet
wide bwipo
Damn straight it's wide bwipo
thorn cosmos
I picked up [[Polluted cistern]] seems good for my style of wanting to drain the table down
smoky scarabBOT
Enchantment — Room
Whenever one or more cards are put into your graveyard from your library, each opponent loses 1 life for each card type among those cards.
(You may cast either half. That door unlocks on the battlefield. As a sorcery, you may pay the mana cost of a locked door to unlock it.)
Dim Oubliette 
Enchantment — Room
When you unlock this door, mill three cards, then return a creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
(You may cast either half. That door unlocks on the battlefield. As a sorcery, you may pay the mana cost of a locked door to unlock it.)
thorn cosmos
Plus the 2nd room is a rez in itself
Got my elvish reclaimer too. And the Sowing mycospawn. Exile a land for kicker pretty good. How often do you guys do that
[[Funeral room]] a better bastion of rememberance
smoky scarabBOT
Enchantment — Room
Whenever a creature you control dies, each opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
(You may cast either half. That door unlocks on the battlefield. As a sorcery, you may pay the mana cost of a locked door to unlock it.)
Awakening Hall 
Enchantment — Room
When you unlock this door, return all creature cards from your graveyard to the battlefield.
(You may cast either half. That door unlocks on the battlefield. As a sorcery, you may pay the mana cost of a locked door to unlock it.)
thorn cosmos
Using other half of room can't be responded to. That's insane
broken hornet
Yep
thorn cosmos
Any thoughts of [[harmonize]] since we can play from gy
smoky scarabBOT
thorn cosmos
[[Nature's rhythm]]
smoky scarabBOT
Sorcery
Search your library for a creature card with mana value X or less, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle.
Harmonize (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its harmonize cost. You may tap a creature you control to reduce that cost by an amount of generic mana equal to its power. Then exile this spell.)
austere dew
[[Nature's rhythm]]
oh that's cool, I didn't know they made a new one of these. Yeah I like that effect a lot. I don't know if this is better than [[Finale of Devastation]] or not, since it doesn't double as a finisher in the same way, but being able to use it from the GY is a big benefit.
smoky scarabBOT
thorn cosmos
Yea it's library only and not gy like finale
austere dew
there's also [[chord of calling]] which could work nicely for your token deck since it has convoke
smoky scarabBOT
Instant
Convoke (Your creatures can help cast this spell. Each creature you tap while casting this spell pays for or one mana of that creature's color.)
Search your library for a creature card with mana value X or less, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle.
thorn cosmos
I own one
glad heart
Finale of Dev would be better imo because it can grab something you've milled, but both cards trigger Teval twice either from exiling itself from GY, or grabbing a creature from GY
It's the same sexy ass efficiency as [[Dread Return]]
broken hornet
Wanna hear a sweet play I did today?
Do it
broken hornet
oh that's cool, I didn't know they made a new one of these. Yeah I like that eff...
It's not it has niche cases where you'd want it over finale, but finale does the X=10 thing and can just win on its own
glad heart
Do it
So, first of all played the deck tonight and talked with the pod about how via the guidelines of the GC list, my deck is now a B4, but I explained that I'm not a fast deck and that you'll always see my wins coming and have chances to stop me, and it won't be happening before turn 7-8
They all agreed and loved the deck list sheet, so we shuffled up and played, got to turn 8, and I had Teval, Aesie, Multani, Lumra, Wight of the reliquary, BOP, and Gitrog Monster out
broken hornet
They all agreed and loved the deck list sheet, so we shuffled up and played, got...
Oh boy
glad heart
Along with 37 zombies cause of looping Glacial Chasm out, with field of the dead and cradle
So, I'm very clearly the fucking threat but no one's got targeted removal and they can't hurt me
The Karlach player ends up drawing Blasph act, and casts that shit immediately, valid af
But, I've got my altar of dementia out
And Living Death in hand
I sac fucking everything and mill myself down to 16 cards, putting Teval in the GY, they know something's up but the bojuka bog from Sheoldred has already been played, no one else is in black
broken hornet
Yeah cue the marina music
smoky scarabBOT
glad heart
I sack every fucking land on my field except for 7 of them, including FoTD
Cast Living Death
Brings back all my shit, including Lab Man, Lumra ETB, I'm down 12 cards in library
With Moldrotha, I cast [[Dim Obulete]]
smoky scarabBOT
glad heart
[[Dim Oubilette]]
smoky scarabBOT
glad heart
[[dim oubliette]]
smoky scarabBOT
Enchantment — Room
Whenever one or more cards are put into your graveyard from your library, each opponent loses 1 life for each card type among those cards.
(You may cast either half. That door unlocks on the battlefield. As a sorcery, you may pay the mana cost of a locked door to unlock it.)
Dim Oubliette
Enchantment — Room
When you unlock this door, mill three cards, then return a creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
(You may cast either half. That door unlocks on the battlefield. As a sorcery, you may pay the mana cost of a locked door to unlock it.)
smoky scarabBOT
Enchantment — Room
You may play lands from your graveyard.
(You may cast either half. That door unlocks on the battlefield. As a sorcery, you may pay the mana cost of a locked door to unlock it.)
Forgotten Cellar
Enchantment — Room
When you unlock this door, you may cast spells from your graveyard this turn, and if a card would be put into your graveyard from anywhere this turn, exile it instead.
(You may cast either half. That door unlocks on the battlefield. As a sorcery, you may pay the mana cost of a locked door to unlock it.)
smoky scarabBOT
Sorcery
Choose up to five worth of modes. You may choose the same mode more than once.
— Put a +1/+1 counter on a creature you control. It gains vigilance and trample until end of turn.
— Choose artifact or enchantment. Destroy all permanents of the chosen type.
— Draw cards equal to the greatest power among creatures you control.
glad heart
And Lumra is fucking MASSIVE
glad heart
Table loved it, they didn't think I'd get there
Everyone at the table decided they need to run more GY hate, and I fully agree. I'm only able to do that stupid shit cause they weren't running much if any
broken hornet
Everyone at the table decided they need to run more GY hate, and I fully agree. ...
Yeah I'm learning how important that all is slowly
proper creek
Once people start to tech in enough gy hate I might as well swap back to izzet spellslinger www
broken hornet
Once people start to tech in enough gy hate I might as well swap back to izzet s...
Look realistically everyone should be played 1 piece of gy hate and 1 piece of target land hate
There are some dumb lands that absolutely shouldn't be allowed to get out of hand
glad heart
Look realistically everyone should be played 1 piece of gy hate and 1 piece of t...
[[Ghost Quarter]] is 38 cents.
smoky scarabBOT
Land
: Add .
, Sacrifice this land: Destroy target land. Its controller may search their library for a basic land card, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle.
Deserted, but not uninhabited.
broken hornet
[[Ghost Quarter]] is 38 cents.
I'm doing demolition field because I at least want to make it so that if I can keep recycling it there's a fair cost so that I'm not just strip mining every turn past a certain point
glad heart
I'm doing demolition field because I at least want to make it so that if I can k...
Ah I'm running Strip mine in my brew
Cause I always explain, hey, I can and likely will strip mine one of you out of this game
broken hornet
I think strip mine by its self is fine
But the second I'm in a deck that can recycle it on repeat
I am absolutely gonna run a worse version
On purpose
Ya feel me
glad heart
I am absolutely gonna run a worse version
No such thing as worse
It's a different brew for a table with different expectations and desire for a game
broken hornet
I'm talking worse in terms of pure card quality
glad heart
My statement still tracks
brisk kernel
strip mine is rlly handy, depending at what pl this is gonna be played at
glad heart
Mines built for high power bracket 3, yours will be built for somewhere a little lower
proper creek
I wish I can stay low bracket 3 but the rest of my tables so far are def at like high bracket 3 w
broken hornet
Mines built for high power bracket 3, yours will be built for somewhere a little...
I don't agree with that sentiment.
I think being able to recycle a strip mine every turn to start hitting people's lands for free comes to close to MLD for my liking in bracket 3.
At least with a cost of 2 mana and a refund on lands for the first few is alot further than MLD than that.
It's less a matter of being high or low power level and more a philosophy of whether that comes close to MLD or not and I'd argue it would.
lunar solar
How can I find the already posted decks more easily are they pinned in this channel? 🙂
Also looking for a more low to the ground deck without infinite combos and so on 🙂
Sultai Reanimate seems solid 😉
broken hornet
This is my Reanimator list
It has a bunch of ways of milling and returning big beaters from your yard to the battlefield or hand along side some of the usual suspects
Stuff like cyc rift can be aetherise and fierce can be a counter spell of choice
proper creek
Caved and bought deathrite/six/fabled passage
That's almost as much money as a precon...I mean I get how good it is but as someone still new I'm feeling a lil mixed on it while also recognizing how good these cards are after experiencing them or against them w
But I'm sure buying a bunch if precon and not being able to play them is also a different issues w
broken hornet
Deathrite is such a silly card
It's gy hate, ramp and also somehow just super dumb in this deck
proper creek
Ye
Honestly if it was freely available I wouldn't feel stressed but it started to feel like all the copies in some foreign singles buying site I was looking around are all being snatched up, and the one that's actually in my country still had a copy of both in comparison
Inbf reprint announce next week
broken hornet
I mean I feel like that's the case with most cards
proper creek
Ripples of undeath where 🙂
broken hornet
That card is actually just really nuts
proper creek
I might try ordering cards from hareruya since it's at least nearby compare to ordering from tcgplayer or cardkingdom
Though I wonder what's shipping is like with cards
broken hornet
I have never heard of that
proper creek
Damn I have some relatives in the US I wish I could have them send over stuffs
Ye
I'm also in the part of the country where magic is less popular apparently
broken hornet
We have that to less of a degree
proper creek
There are stores and we do get prerelease on time but apparently the big city at the north of my country have a more active playerbase
Thats where I managed to buy the teval precon and also these singles
Not like the shop over here is lacking in the singles dept or anything but they don't have everything on a site, just that I'd have to leave an order and check a week later to see if they have the cards I asked
They also have a bunch of collector box and old set displayed w
Looks real cool
broken hornet
That's cool af
broken hornet
It sure is
thorn cosmos
Everyone at the table decided they need to run more GY hate, and I fully agree. ...
The most important lesson.
Great play fun to read now that I'm up
keen grove
But I live in the southeast Asia so
Southeast Asian gang
proper creek
Hell ye
thorn cosmos
Caved and bought deathrite/six/fabled passage
Deathright spiked. 10 bucks. Six should be 5 bucks. Fabled a bit more
proper creek
Unfortunately I think mine was like 35 bucks in total
Not that I have much of a choice, at least I don't have to bother with international shipping which would be like 5 more bucks prob
Well the other choice is simply pro-
keen grove
Well the other choice is simply pro-
thorn cosmos
I'm gonna get the 2 rooms for this deck. The dying life drain and the Polluted. Shit is sick
proper creek
👼
keen grove
https://moxfield.com/decks/fmTbhgJD-UOzma7X_nXqzw
I'm surprised for a reanimator list that it doesn't play Muldrotha
thorn cosmos
I'm surprised for a reanimator list that it doesn't play Muldrotha
I own an extra and have a deck with her and I finally caved and threw her in lol
keen grove
My friend rebuilt Muldrotha exclusively because of Teval and his gang. It's a very silly deck
broken hornet
I'm surprised for a reanimator list that it doesn't play Muldrotha
I worked on part of the list and it's theory with a mate and he pulled me hard against muldrotha
The gist being it's really slow and walking target for removal.
My other threats are either really sticky, protection or just straight upend the game. Colossal grave reaver is a special kind of dumb and uniquely works with teval and the other mill effects to reanimate creatures.
thorn cosmos
I was gonna throw in teval into muldrotha it's a better worldshaper almost
proper creek
Muldrotha seems so cool and I'd like to make it work because she's like one of my first prebuy in anticipation for the deck but my only experience with her so far is the rest of the table stealing her from me lol
I can kinda get the idea why people think she's slow
But also I need victimize target-
keen grove
Muldrotha seems so cool and I'd like to make it work because she's like one of m...
I've heard Sylvan Safekeeper is a good card
thorn cosmos
Muldrotha as a deck is slow and midrange. It's a grind deck. In teval she just turbos zombies out
thorn cosmos
I've heard Sylvan Safekeeper is a good card
You should run it
proper creek
Why am I not surprised it's another mh3 card
proper creek
I'm not in so dire of a financial situation where buying an entire box of mh3 would set me back buy like that'd be the most irresponsible purchase I ever make and I don't wanna do this 1 month into the game lmao
Maybe in 1 year
broken hornet
For context, I am definitely moving further towards the idea that if you're gonna play a big creature, it needs to have to have immediate impact, be hard to kill, be sticky or be core to the decks engine.
And muldrotha may fit in some of those boxes but not cleanly enough to be worth the slot
Especially when space is tight as is
keen grove
Fair point
As cool as Teval is, I'm gonna save my Sultai space for Sin and throw Teval in that instead
broken hornet
Also btw, if I'm gonna run muldrotha I'd rather run it's funny mini me in kotis
thorn cosmos
Why am I not surprised it's another mh3 card
It's a very old card originally
broken hornet
It's cheaper and gets bigger off your other reanimation
keen grove
Yeah... but Muldrotha let's me play lands
broken hornet
And the mana cost is relevant
broken hornet
Yeah... but Muldrotha let's me play lands
I'm no where near strapped for that kind of effect to be bothered
thorn cosmos
Also btw, if I'm gonna run muldrotha I'd rather run it's funny mini me in kotis
I took him out because he fights titans nest and other stuff exile cards with
proper creek
Like this is my first month in mtg and I think I already spent like 300 usd...(of course part of it is me feeling thrifty cuz I managed to get a job, and also the initial purchase of a hobby is the most expensive)
Oh yeah titans nest
broken hornet
I took him out because he fights titans nest and other stuff exile cards with
I mean I'm not even running kotis
proper creek
Another card I just can't find
proper creek
I can kind of get it, the thought of wanting guys with immediate impact
Like compare to colossal grave reaver who at least mill 3 on play and has a chance to pull a guy out
broken hornet
Like compare to colossal grave reaver who at least mill 3 on play and has a chan...
And can chain ofc a teval attack to do more
proper creek
Ye
broken hornet
It's just a fundamental deck building philosophy
keen grove
I haven't seen a Teval deck in the wild yet, but I'm hoping to get in a few games against one with my Gyruda deck.
proper creek
Like I'm sure muldrotha would work if you're against freshly upgraded precon but unfortunately I'm up against bojuka bog teferi protection cyclonic rift field of the dead
thorn cosmos
Like this is my first month in mtg and I think I already spent like 300 usd...(o...
Yea it's called cardboard crack for a reason. I just buy singles. This is the first commander deck I bought in a while. I picked up sultai one from Costco and it was a dogshit mistake
proper creek
Did you pay for it for much more
broken hornet
Like I'm sure muldrotha would work if you're against freshly upgraded precon but...
I actually think muldrotha would be a house is more casual tables
proper creek
Foe the record the 300 usd is 2 precon, 2 prerelease, 2 draft and a bunch of singles
thorn cosmos
Did you pay for it for much more
Costco had it as a bundle for 50. And it was just so bad. I got teval for preorder for 45. And it's been great
broken hornet
God USD seems so much less than aud
thorn cosmos
I wouldn't play muldrotha in 2s or 1s. 3s is where it's great
broken hornet
All 5 decks are 400 aud
broken hornet
I wouldn't play muldrotha in 2s or 1s. 3s is where it's great
I think it's quite unnecessary in alot of 3s, but it'll put in alot of effort the lower the pl you go
proper creek
I am new player people should be nice to me :((( plays dauthi turn2
thorn cosmos
I think it's quite unnecessary in alot of 3s, but it'll put in alot of effort th...
I meant her as a commander
broken hornet
I meant her as a commander
Yeah I'm not talking as commander
I'm talking in the context of teval
proper creek
I imagine if you play her as commander you'd play a lot more ramp?
thorn cosmos
I am new player people should be nice to me :((( *plays dauthi turn2*
So? I had to deal with leyline turn 0 and mesmeric turn 2 lol. I land passed for 5 turns. It's part of the game. You learn to play around Hate pieces
broken hornet
If you play her as a commander you build the deck alot differently
Alot more dredge
thorn cosmos
I have 0 dredge but I'm also playing her in bracket 4
So I have like 15 GC in the deck
broken hornet
Standard muldrotha is alot of dredge and ramp.
Stuff like omniscience, mystic remora and the like for enchants
proper creek
So? I had to deal with leyline turn 0 and mesmeric turn 2 lol. I land passed for...
Yeah I get it I had to play around grand abolisher myself once
broken hornet
Mystic remora gets around the cumulative upkeep really easily
thorn cosmos
I've never seen omniscience in a multdrotha list. Interesting
keen grove
Probably to copy off Shifting Woodland
broken hornet
Spore frog is a funny card in muldrotha
thorn cosmos
I guess it makes sense. Cast stuff for free
broken hornet
Free fog
broken hornet
But in any case, muldrotha in teval is kinda unnecessary in bracket 3, but in bracket 2 it'll be a cool repeatable engine piece especially with games being slower
proper creek
OK replaces muldrotha with master transcendence
broken hornet
Btw I can't tell if anyone can tell but I'm so fucking excited with brackets
Shits fucking good
We eating good
thorn cosmos
Btw I can't tell if anyone can tell but I'm so fucking excited with brackets
I need them to Increase GC for bracket 3 or eventually it'll be 2s and 4s
I went from 2 to 4 over night
thorn cosmos
OK *replaces muldrotha with master transcendence*
[[Master transcendent]]
smoky scarabBOT
Legendary Artifact Creature — Mutant
When The Master enters, target player gets two rad counters.
: Put target creature card in a graveyard that was milled this turn onto the battlefield under your control. It's a green Mutant with base power and toughness 3/3. (It loses its other colors and creature types.)
2/4
broken hornet
I need them to Increase GC for bracket 3 or eventually it'll be 2s and 4s
I mean you just alter your lists around it. Like I went through and altered a few decks today around the changes and it wasn't that hard tbh.
thorn cosmos
I mean you just alter your lists around it. Like I went through and altered a fe...
Well if they keep adding things to ban for 2s and limit in 3s 3s will get choked out in my opinion
3s can have infinites out of no where but only 3 game changers. Oh OK
broken hornet
3s can have infinites out of no where but only 3 game changers. Oh OK
It's 56 cards if my counting is correct if you can't pick 3 cards from that list only or think your deck needs more, then it probably shouldn't be a 3
thorn cosmos
It's 56 cards if my counting is correct if you can't pick 3 cards from that list...
The cards they picked are bad. Narset? Aura shards? Field I get.
They are doing it to cater to bracket 2 but are making it harder for 3s as a result
I'll adhere to it I don't have to agree with it. It could be better
proper creek
Great choice
Yeah I hear my shop is getting fallout restock too and I've been looking at the mothman deck..
Wondering if there's anything that is fun to put into muldrotha
[[Raul trouble shooter]]
smoky scarabBOT
Legendary Creature — Zombie Mutant Rogue
Once during each of your turns, you may cast a spell from among cards in your graveyard that were milled this turn.
: Each player mills a card. (They each put the top card of their library into their graveyard.)
"Raul Alfonso Tejada, former gunslinger and sole survivor of Hidalgo Ranch, at your service."
1/4
proper creek
Wait I mean teval
thorn cosmos
[[Raul trouble shooter]]
I put him in teval for a day and took him. Out
proper creek
We talked about muldrotha so I got mulbrained
Oof
Was there any other fallout card you tries
One of the guys who were also on teval on the same table I was last week was on both master and the glowing one
[[The glowing one]]
smoky scarabBOT
proper creek
I guess its high time I put these into the deck
thorn cosmos
I want the wayfarer
Lol
@autumn knot we do a bunch of teval discussion here
Cousin for the win
glad heart
Caved and bought deathrite/six/fabled passage
Do not be afraid to exile your own lands if Teval is out
@thorn cosmos you know what's gonna be a damn staple for Teval once it comes out?
[[Sin Spara's Punishment]]
smoky scarabBOT
glad heart
It's good ramp, it's good reanimation, and it's more Teval triggers
glad heart
It is. For 7 mana. If you cheat it out that's pretty great
[[Chthonian Nightmare]]
smoky scarabBOT
Enchantment
When this enchantment enters, you get 
(three energy counters).
Pay X , Sacrifice a creature, Return this enchantment to its owner's hand: Return target creature card with mana value X from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate only as a sorcery.
glad heart
Really really easy to cheat him out if you got 3 spare zombies
I found out, you can pay 0 energy because it's an X cost, and you can fail to find with it
The biggest issue I have with my deck rn, is it becomes SUPER long in turn length once it starts doing its thing
I had like a 15 minute turn the other night, I won after it, but you do sit there and diddle yourself like a Simic player for a while
thorn cosmos
Well that's the game. Goldfish and do your best to keep it short
autumn knot
<@711102645607071938> we do a bunch of teval discussion here
niice
autumn knot
We talked about muldrotha so I got mulbrained
Muldrotha is so good in the 99
thorn cosmos
Is maze of ith worth a slot. I don't think so but wanted thoughts
autumn knot
Is maze of ith worth a slot. I don't think so but wanted thoughts
I feel chasm it a tad bit oppressive, maze might be a good add
thorn cosmos
I think cradle tapping for 8 plus is worse than chasm personally but yea I can see it
Chasm is just good for a turn or 2 so you don't get Direct damaged to death
Terror of the peaks style
autumn knot
I think cradle tapping for 8 plus is worse than chasm personally but yea I can s...
the issue with chasm is that it never beeds to be paid for if teval is out
and they can't really deal with it
I've been considering wasteland
thorn cosmos
the issue with chasm is that it never beeds to be paid for if teval is out
It does. You are down a land. Then you let it die. Bring it back and are down another land
You can't attack with teval while it's out
autumn knot
You can't attack with teval while it's out
wait lemme read that thing again
[[glacial chasm]]
smoky scarabBOT
autumn knot
yeah
just kill the land on upkeep, swing with your stuff to bring it back and never get hit by anything
thorn cosmos
I said this before in this thread.
Things can still kill you while it's out. People can blow it up. Chaos warp it. Exile it from the gy. Bounce it back.
You can die from life drain still. Many things can still happen
There's cards that say you can't prevent damage
It's a good card but you don't auto win with it out
autumn knot
I said this before in this thread.
Things can still kill you while it's out. Peo...
people can kill much of everything, just that methods of dealing with it aren't too common in casual pods
who actually wants to run RIP
thorn cosmos
I mean it's bracket 3. Infinites out of no where. No way to deal?
Beast within. Generous gift.
autumn knot
ah I don't use brackets
thorn cosmos
Well teval isn't appropriate in 2s if you upgrade it lol
autumn knot
I just don't run cards that are generally "too good" in my head
thorn cosmos
Well if you play in certain brackets, the guys across from you will
autumn knot
syngergy is cool, boring cards ar boring
autumn knot
Well if you play in certain brackets, the guys across from you will
I mean that's casual
if I wanted consistent power levels I'd move to the next table and pull out my T&T
Idrm people being in higher/lower power levels, usually it gets sorted out within the pod naturally
weary crane
People in b3 should be able to deal with chasm
thorn cosmos
I can tell you I've died while it's been out lol
autumn knot
I just don't wanna run it cause I just play games with anyone
if I do happen to run into John no yard hate, Dale no removal and Sarah no wincons
thorn cosmos
I just don't wanna run it cause I just play games with anyone
No one making you. Enjoy how you want
autumn knot
which is why I'm not on it
weary crane
tbh most people in the wild view bracket 3 as anything goes with game changers
autumn knot
my choice
autumn knot
which is why I'm not on it
also kind of cause it makes the game kinda boring
thorn cosmos
tbh most people in the wild view bracket 3 as anything goes with game changers
Pretty much any 3 I don't care which
weary crane
I’ve run into a very weird combo deck with thoracle in b3, and when thoracle went onto the stack I was the only person who had counter spells and instants to draw more counters. Rest of the table sat there and would’ve died
proper creek
Just proxy lol
I already asked for a set of proxy for lands but it's been 2 weeks so I have no idea when they arrive
thorn cosmos
Wonder if [[uvenvald hydra]] worth if you are playing mycospawn anyway
smoky scarabBOT
thorn cosmos
[[Ulvenwald hydra]]
smoky scarabBOT
austere dew
[[Ulvenwald hydra]]
Eh… idk. Of all the land-power creatures, it’s really not my favorite. It’s enters effect is good, of course, but it’s keywords don’t seem good enough to be worth running. [[Lumra, Bellow of the Woods]] would fill that slot better, as a utility land power creature.
smoky scarabBOT
thorn cosmos
That's pretty true
broken hornet
The cards they picked are bad. Narset? Aura shards? Field I get.
They are doing ...
I went through an old list and wanted to update it to match my current approach to deck building and also to fit within the context of game changers in bracket 3 and has to cut 4 GC just to have 3 GC on the list.
I had 7 cards in there on that list. And the thing I realised was, half the stuff was just there because they're powerful cards and I realsitically didn't need them.
thorn cosmos
I went through an old list and wanted to update it to match my current approach ...
What 4 did you have that were added
I had 2 went to 4 because field and crop
broken hornet
What 4 did you have that were added
The list was made before the first game changers list for context
thorn cosmos
Makes sense
broken hornet
What 5 game changers are you trying to run here
That makes you think the list sucks
Or at least
The limit 3 sucks
broken hornet
Yep
That's one thing that has changed, I realised how many times I was just slotting tutors into a list without considering if I should
And now I'm very much on the side of we definitely don't need to run a bunch, of sometimes even 1
broken hornet
Like I'm intentionally and explicitly not running entomb in my Reanimator list
thorn cosmos
I don't even like entomb. Intuition is better
thorn cosmos
It's for very specific combo decks
broken hornet
Not necessarily. Sometimes it just takes the place of a big chungus so that you don't have a dead 6+ mana card in your hand. And at that point it doubles as a tutor for any card in the deck in your reaniamtion. Or in teval countd as any land
broken hornet
But the point is I'm cutting back on tutors hard because j realised I just don't need to play them and when half my decks had too many game changers because of tutors I realised real fast, 3 is plenty. And if I'm going over 3 I'm probably playing something unecessary or is a tutor and that's an easy cut
broken hornet
That can be the alternative crop I guess
Yeah it's a dumb card.
austere dew
What’s really fun/dumb is when you open entomb and reanimate in the same hand
Turn 2 Colossal Grave Reaver is just insane amounts of value
broken hornet
Yeah there's alot of dumb shit with the card and I don't need it
If my deck is doing it's thing entomb is wholly unnecessary
austere dew
To each their own. I like having access to the toolbox
broken hornet
I mean that's just the appeal of tutors period
It's just a question of is it necessary to play open ended tutors like that
thorn cosmos
I might throw it in there it'll be the only spell tutor in the deck
I did order a sylvan scrying might use that
austere dew
I think asking whether or not it’s necessary is the wrong question. It’s more a matter of “does it actively further my game plan in a meaningful way?” Entomb provides direct synergy with the deck’s game plan, where as something like vampiric tutor is generically good because it can let you draw into any card, but doesn’t provide meaningful synergy beyond that.
broken hornet
I think asking whether or not it’s necessary is the wrong question. It’s more a ...
It absolutely is the right question to ask, because my point against entomb comes from my overall point about tutors as a whole. Where I think that the vast majority of tutors that see play don't absolutely need to see play.
Does this mean I cut them from every deck? No but it does mean I do severely limit my use of them.
I straight up think that tutors aren't completely necessary.
thorn cosmos
Not needed in teval because so much mill
Thoughts on [[Incarnation technique]] to copy or not?
smoky scarabBOT
broken hornet
Thoughts on [[Incarnation technique]] to copy or not?
I mean it's fine?
thorn cosmos
I swapped crop with entomb and I still have realms uncharted
glad heart
I swapped crop with entomb and I still have realms uncharted
I made some new changes to my list as well
Crop rot was swapped for arch druids charm
Ancient tomb for lotus field
Rot Cursed Rakshasha for The Scarab God
thorn cosmos
I'm waiting for lotus field and shifting to show up
proper creek
Would you let an opp draw a card to return 2 perma from gy to hand
[[Peerless recycling]]
smoky scarabBOT
proper creek
I get this doesn't reach witness range cuz it returj any card but I thought it interesting
broken hornet
Giving an opponent a card to get 2 cards back from your yard is good
Especially when you can just give a card to someone in a worse position
To either get their help dealing with a threat
Or give a card to someone to dissuade attacks in politics
proper creek
Managed to pick it up with the soul lantern/perplexing test/aether gale/consuming tide
broken hornet
Good pickup
proper creek
Can't forget the dread return!
broken hornet
Yeah that card is crazy
proper creek
Is gitrog in the camp of too slow or is the double playing lands worth it
broken hornet
Depends on your deck
proper creek
It's probably leaning more on landfall drain token rn due to recent inclusions
Though I am putting more interaction and boardwile to better be able to interact with others
broken hornet
Maybe it's worth?
proper creek
If anything it doesn't ruin my curve I guess? I do like the idea of putting down lands for teval to trigger in case I lack mill
And also it being 5 drop conflict less with teval being 4
broken hornet
I mean the question should be does it do enough
autumn knot
[[the gitrog monster]]
smoky scarabBOT
autumn knot
I feel like its fine as long as you're on enough fetches
broken hornet
coughs Dredge land Coughs Coughs
thorn cosmos
[[Peerless recycling]]
Pretty good
[[Bygone marvels]] condition but you can get 3 copies
smoky scarabBOT
broken hornet
(it triggers teval 3 separate times because its the spell getting copied so its 3 instances)
proper creek
Oh thats a cool card
proper creek
https://archidekt.com/decks/12617210/teval_sultai_current_version still waiting for bojuka bog/six/deathrite/boardwipes and me finding a wight of reliquary but here's something in the meantime. I'm just putting the blue boardwipe here for now as placeholder for the black ones that I hopefully get this weekend
thorn cosmos
It's much better late game when you actually have enough permanents to copy it
broken hornet
It's much better late game when you actually have enough permanents to copy it
you're playing teval you are milling 3 cards are turn, its online ALOT sooner than you think
thorn cosmos
you're playing teval you are milling 3 cards are turn, its online ALOT sooner th...
I've put in and taken out a few times I'll try it again
[[Funeral room]] and the other half is a really good card in teval.
[[Disorienting Choice]] did well last night too
smoky scarabBOT
Enchantment — Room
Whenever a creature you control dies, each opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
(You may cast either half. That door unlocks on the battlefield. As a sorcery, you may pay the mana cost of a locked door to unlock it.)
Awakening Hall
Enchantment — Room
When you unlock this door, return all creature cards from your graveyard to the battlefield.
(You may cast either half. That door unlocks on the battlefield. As a sorcery, you may pay the mana cost of a locked door to unlock it.)
broken hornet
I've put in and taken out a few times I'll try it again
im not telling you to play it, im just telling y ou you're wrong about it being a lategame card
it very much functions earlier than you think
proper creek
am I desperate trying to force broodheart engine wwwww
maybe now that I have dread return I can cut it out
thorn cosmos
[[Broodheart engine]]
smoky scarabBOT
Artifact
At the beginning of your upkeep, surveil 1.
, , Sacrifice this artifact: Return target creature or Vehicle card from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate only as a sorcery.
The only honor greater than piloting a Speedbrood vehicle is becoming one yourself.
thorn cosmos
maybe now that I have dread return I can cut it out
Yea that's a cut lol
broken hornet
Dread return is basically free if it ever hits your yard
proper creek
getting wary about my creature ratio because I still would like to run the drake w
austere dew
Descended
Descend typically doesn’t care about a number. It’s just a yes or no question of whether or not you descended this turn. Example is [[Brass’s Tunnel Grinder]]
smoky scarabBOT
Legendary Artifact
When Brass's Tunnel-Grinder enters, discard any number of cards, then draw that many cards plus one.
At the beginning of your end step, if you descended this turn, put a bore counter on Brass's Tunnel-Grinder. Then if there are three or more bore counters on it, remove those counters and transform it. (You descended if a permanent card was put into your graveyard from anywhere.)
Tecutlan, the Searing Rift
Legendary Land — Cave
(Transforms from Brass's Tunnel-Grinder.)
: Add 
.
Whenever you cast a permanent spell using mana produced by Tecutlan, discover X, where X is that spell's mana value.
austere dew
Ah nvm there are cards that care about a number as well. It’s both
broken hornet
Yeah descend is both number of cards in your yard and also number of times a card was sent to your yard. And which number it cares about its specified by the card.
Its actually dumb as hell
austere dew
It’s also not cards in your GY. Every version of Descend only cares about permanents
broken hornet
yeah but my point still stands, the fact that both are descend is really bad
just mechanically
austere dew
Yeah I know. I was agreeing with you. It’s a needlessly complicated mechanic with weird stipulations.
broken hornet
But in any case, descend 8 is actually really easy in this deck so you can actually retrieve 3 cards very quick with the card further above
thorn cosmos
[[Fiend artisan]] got me wight last night.
I tried to cast mirkwood bats and it got shuffled into my library. Got it back with fiend artisan. Good card if no one messes with it
smoky scarabBOT
Creature — Nightmare
This creature gets +1/+1 for each creature card in your graveyard.
, , Sacrifice another creature: Search your library for a creature card with mana value X or less, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle. Activate only as a sorcery.
1/1
thorn cosmos
But in any case, descend 8 is actually really easy in this deck so you can actua...
I like that it doesn't care if it gets countered either
broken hornet
I like that it doesn't care if it gets countered either
It's a triple teval proc
thorn cosmos
Yea pro play for 2 green
broken hornet
I'm not playing it but I can see why someone would and won't spite them for it
thorn cosmos
I had someone play [[dauthi voidwalker]] turn 5 after I got teval out and I had to [[suspend]] it because it turned off the deck. Lost because of it because yuriko went unchecked but I got to play the game
smoky scarabBOT
Creature — Dauthi Rogue
Shadow (This creature can block or be blocked by only creatures with shadow.)
If a card would be put into an opponent's graveyard from anywhere, instead exile it with a void counter on it.
, Sacrifice this creature: Choose an exiled card an opponent owns with a void counter on it. You may play it this turn without paying its mana cost.
3/2
thorn cosmos
Dauthi never made it back on field before game ended
broken hornet
Why suspend over pongify/rapid hybridisation
thorn cosmos
Because exile is better than destroy
Well I should say it gets around indestructible
Sometimes it's not better
It makes it so they can't bring it back from the yard either
For a 3 turn clock. Which is fine. Game was over before it even had 1 counter left
broken hornet
I mean it's not a true exile it just delays
autumn knot
Dread return is basically free if it ever hits your yard
dread return is so good in this deck
cast return, get something back and get a 2/2
flashback return, get a 2/2, return a creature and make another 2/2
thorn cosmos
I mean it's not a true exile it just delays
Yes. I've done it to commanders and they don't want to wait effectively 4 turns so it goes to CZ.
It's pretty decent to give you 3 plus turns to figure something out
[[Kishla trawlers]] might grab one was shown this in format philosophy channel
smoky scarabBOT
thorn cosmos
Yes 2 zombies for 3 cmc plus a spell is pretty goof
thorn cosmos
Been thinking about adding
[[Yagmoth thran physician]] for a creature sac outlet and let's me dump zombies for cards.
Thoughts?
smoky scarabBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Cleric
Protection from Humans
Pay 1 life, Sacrifice another creature: Put a -1/-1 counter on up to one target creature and draw a card.
, Discard a card: Proliferate. (Choose any number of permanents and/or players, then give each another counter of each kind already there.)
2/4
thorn cosmos
Currently I have fiend artisan and wight and ayara as my 1 per turn sacs with phyrexian altar and altar of dementia as my as much as I want
Or [[yahenni undying]]
smoky scarabBOT
austere dew
If you are looking for sac outlets, [[Everveth, Viceroy of Plunder]] is a fun one because even though you can only do it at sorcery speed, it does give you a huge flying creature in return
smoky scarabBOT
Legendary Creature — Vampire Soldier
Flying
Sacrifice another creature or artifact: Put a +1/+1 counter on Evereth. If the sacrificed permanent was a Treasure, Evereth gains lifelink until end of turn. Activate only as a sorcery.
When Evereth dies, you may pay 
. When you do, Evereth deals damage equal to its power to each opponent.
2/2
austere dew
Oh nvm. Forgot it had red in its identity
thorn cosmos
I had eldrazi monument in deck took it out.
Thinking about
[[Cultist of absolute]]
smoky scarabBOT
thorn cosmos
Turns commander into a 3 turn threat
austere dew
Turns commander into a 3 turn threat
Depends on how much you’re investing into the aristocrats strategy. There are better ways to pump your commander and give it evasion, if you’re trying to get a commander damage win. So it really just comes down to whether or not you want to sac a creature every upkeep. This card doesn’t give you any direct payoff for the sacrifice, so you’d have to be running a critical mass of sac payoff cards
thorn cosmos
Yea. I've only killed with commander damage once and only with will of sultai. Yawgmoth looks like it
thorn cosmos
[[Ashaya soul of the wild]]
Or
[[Titania protector of argoth]]
I own both of these.
The first one let's me turn everything into a mana dork and avoid being cyc rifted. And also makes field trigger on every non token creature etb and gets it online that much faster
The other one brings back a land and when I sac lands makes tokens. I'm leaning towards titania. Any reason to not? Or why ashaya would be better
broken hornet
[[Ashaya soul of the wild]]
Or
[[Titania protector of argoth]]
I own both of th...
I think you are no is interpreting a card if you think it makes you immune to cyc rift
Also don't run ashaya it specifies nontokens
thorn cosmos
My non token creatures would not be affected
broken hornet
Say why you think that
thorn cosmos
Because cyc rift says non lands
And ashaya turns them all into lands in addition to
[[Cyclonic rift]]
smoky scarabBOT
Instant
Return target nonland permanent you don't control to its owner's hand.
Overload (You may cast this spell for its overload cost. If you do, change "target" in its text to "each.")
The Izzet specialize in unnatural disaster.
broken hornet
Oh that's silly
I still wouldn't play it, half your board are tokens and your particular list is more focused on lands than having non-tokens out iirc
There are better ways of protecting your board from cyc rift
At least in here
thorn cosmos
Titania it is. I'm sacrificing enough lands for her 5/3 tokens
broken hornet
Why do you care about either
thorn cosmos
Value add for doing the things I'm already doing
I'm gonna have 5 drain effects in the deck. [[Mirkwood bats]]
Won me the game last night
smoky scarabBOT
thorn cosmos
Token generation with titania
broken hornet
I think you need to go back and make sure your deck has a focused gameplans famajam
thorn cosmos
I'll update the current list and share for thoughts tonight. Sure
thorn cosmos
https://archidekt.com/decks/12379209/teval_2025
here's the updated list. the "maybe board" is the stuff i'm waiting to show up that's on order. plan to cut mana gorger for mossborn.
a normal forest probably for lotus field
i think three tree city is always on back burner to cabal coffers and gaeas so i'll replace that with shifting woodlands
will make 6 cuts to add the reclaimer. lotus field, polluted cistern, shifting woodland. mossborn and blasphemous.
sowing mycospawn is a maybe. at that point i can just use sylvan scrying
proper creek
They have arrived.
broken hornet
I am heading off to commander tomorrow during the day, teval is the first deck im playing the ufck out of
thorn cosmos
I am heading off to commander tomorrow during the day, teval is the first deck i...
Please report on what works and what doesn't and changes you make after
broken hornet
If I play only 1 game with it (might be reality I went crazy and put 4 decks together for this week this week) I may not make changes
Unless it's a complete dumpsterfire
thorn cosmos
Wow lol nice enjoy
austere dew
You know what we should do? We don’t have the ability to pin things to this thread, but on both mobile and desktop, there is a button to scroll to the top of the thread. Kyoshi, do you think you could edit the first post so that it has the username and decklist of everyone that’s posted here, so we have them all in one place?
broken hornet
You know what we should do? We don’t have the ability to pin things to this thre...
If this occurs we should group it by deck themes
So the pure Reanimator types get put under that heading, and the more lands matter peeps get out under that heading
austere dew
yeah I agree
broken hornet
Anyone who comes in looking for a lands list won't want mine
austere dew
Anyways, I've been thinking about some changes for my list. Namely, I want to add more evasion. Cards I have on my radar are [[Brawn]], [[Key to the City]], and [[Rogue's Passage]]. Trying to decide if I should add 1 or more of these
smoky scarabBOT
Artifact
, Discard a card: Up to one target creature can't be blocked this turn.
Whenever this artifact becomes untapped, you may pay . If you do, draw a card.
It would be unfortunate if the key fell into the wrong hands.
Land
: Add .
, : Target creature can't be blocked this turn.
Rumors quickly spread among thieves about a labyrinth without walls and a prize beyond all measures of worth.
broken hornet
It's rogues passage
The other 2 are bad cards
Rogues passage is slightly better
And it's a land
I should mention
autumn knot
The other 2 are bad cards
brawn is good
it's just that your druids are 2/2s
and trample won't relaly do shit
broken hornet
It's also straight up not evasion
autumn knot
I mean it's good
just slightly awkward in a deck that doesn't focus on big creatures
autumn knot
https://scryfall.com/card/c21/248/key-to-the-city
key is kinda bad for the same reason
cabal pit is goated
autumn knot
Anyways, I've been thinking about some changes for my list. Namely, I want to ad...
evasionnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
hmmmmmmmmm
broken hornet
Rogues passage takes up a land slot which is easier for it to fit into, and it being a land means if it's milled it's retrievable
autumn knot
cover of darkness is an option
broken hornet
just slightly awkward in a deck that doesn't focus on big creatures
Fair, I blanket made a statement when I needed to add more to my ststement
autumn knot
is quite literal unblockable
OH MY GOD
I DID NOT HTINK OF THIS WHEN I HAD IT IN MY OTHER DECKS
[[champion of lambhold]]
smoky scarabBOT
autumn knot
I am
so stupid
MVP in my cEDH Jetmir at one point
and I completely forget about it
broken hornet
I get why
But I think that I'm personally more likely to add a land that does that effect than another card
If that makes sense
Not that I'm actively doing this
Because the commander has flying which is its own evasion
austere dew
It's also straight up not evasion
Honestly, trample is probably the best form of evasion for a deck like mine. The main goal of my deck is to go tall. I run several creatures with land-power, plus Ob Nixilis, Marit Lage, etc. Making it so people can’t just chump block my 20/20 or 30/30 creatures is often better than making them actually unblockable for 1 turn, because it means people often need to board wipe themselves to reduce the damage to a reasonable level.
broken hornet
See I forgot that your deck was that and not the lands stuff everyone not named me was doing
If that's the case brawn is absurd
austere dew
I mean my deck is also lands stuff. Those strategies synergize
broken hornet
You know what I mean. The more hard indexing on lands theme
Mine does lands stuff but it's a smaller pieces of the deck where the bigger portion is reanimation
thorn cosmos
You know what we should do? We don’t have the ability to pin things to this thre...
Post your current decks I'll edit it to throw them all in and ping you.
Describe the style like reanimator or land toolbox I'll put under description of your link
austere dew
Alright so brawn and rogues passage are probably going in, then
austere dew
Post your current decks I'll edit it to throw them all in and ping you.
Describ...
Awesome!
broken hornet
thorn cosmos
i got aussie's up there. i'll add when i see more links
austere dew
Go tall - Land tool box
https://archidekt.com/decks/12081160/teval_land_toolbox
austere dew
Nice! That's a really fun card
Though I'd say like 60% of the time I use if for Dark Depths. It should still have plenty of value without that, but its worth keeping in mind the different use cases
thorn cosmos
yea debated swapping memorial to folly for it but i'll keep that and cut 3 tree city. shifting can become one of my sac outlets. a creature i need to attack or get an effect with. the any permanent thing is like really versatile
it's like a [[mirage mirror]] but for GY's. its pretty nice
smoky scarabBOT
Artifact
: This artifact becomes a copy of target artifact, creature, enchantment, or land until end of turn.
Most mirrors show your reflection. Others show your potential.
austere dew
Oh yeah, copying a sac outlet is a really good way to use it.
thorn cosmos
yea in case i can't pull it out of the GY for some reason. just pay 4
austere dew
Plus, Shifting Woodlands doesn't tap to use the copy effect, so if you don't need the copied permanent to enter untapped, Shifting Woodlands can pay for 1 of the mana needed for its own effect
or you can use it in M2 on the same turn you pull it out of the GY with teval's effect
thorn cosmos
or you can use it in M2 on the same turn you pull it out of the GY with teval's ...
What does this mean
oh main phase 2 after i get it with teval
i got it lol
austere dew
What do you all think of [[Bonny Pall, Clearcutter]] for my deck? I'm already running it, but I need to find something to cut for Brawn. On paper, Bonny seems like it does everything I want this deck to do, but 6 mana is a lot. Beau has no keywords, and Bonny only draws 1 card a turn. I still really like the card in principle, but I'm wondering if that deck space could be filled better
smoky scarabBOT
austere dew
the other card I could potentially cut is Nyx Weaver
thorn cosmos
the other card I could potentially cut is Nyx Weaver
Easy cut
thorn cosmos
What do you all think of [[Bonny Pall, Clearcutter]] for my deck? I'm already ru...
this is good because you don't even need to attack with him. you get the effect of a draw and a land drop immediately and it has reach
austere dew
That's what I was thinking too
thorn cosmos
i'm token heavy so i was thinking about [[koma]] but it's a 7 drop but it does put a clock on the game
smoky scarabBOT
thorn cosmos
[[koma cosmos serpent]]
smoky scarabBOT
humble harness
its a little mana-expensive but [[Dictate of Erebos]] is good with sac'ing stuff.
smoky scarabBOT
austere dew
It’s good, sure. But it’s also they type of card that can very quickly push your deck into the territory of people no long wanting to play with you
thorn cosmos
Yea grave pact and dictate are great and I run them in other decks. Pretty oppressive stuff.
You can totally build teval that way
thorn cosmos
It’s good, sure. But it’s also they type of card that can very quickly push your...
Lol I wouldn't go that far. People should have answers in 3s
austere dew
It’s fine if it’s just a value piece, but if it’s part of your deck’s strategy or you actively try to abuse it as much as possible, yeah you’ll definitely get people asking you to play something else. Or just trying to pod swap as soon as that game is over
humble harness
my thoughts was its a nice benefit to the sac'ing, or even giving your your stuff effectively 'deathtouch' in combat with the flash keyword
but its definitely something that if built around can be annoying
thorn cosmos
it's a 5 cmc control piece. there's really only 2 of them besdies the 7 drop creatre. its not worth to run it in my opionion on in these decks. but i can see making tokens and keeping the board clear.
[[gitrog ravenous]] wonder if that's worth. sac a token draw 2 make 2 land drops
smoky scarabBOT
humble harness
i think the nice part there is you can do it with other creatures too, doesnt need to just be a token, can be a 3/4 power, if you need more land/draw, and then recursion them from the graveyard or do other yard stuff with them in the yard
austere dew
I'm skeptical. I think [[The Gitrog Monster]] is a better card. Ravenous Ride gives you more burst value, but you plan to use it with your low power tokens for value over time
smoky scarabBOT
thorn cosmos
i cut OG gitrog but i might throw it back in
austere dew
I think its really good in this deck, because it triggers whenever you mill a land too. But the most fun thing Monster can do is if you discard a land for handsize limit at the end of your turn, that also triggers it, which means you draw another card and discard again, which can keep filtering your hand more and more, or filling your GY with better reanimation targets
thorn cosmos
Yea. If you wanted to go nuts add underrealm lich dig for 50 cards
I'll find a slot for it
I milling at least 6 per turn most of the time
Refill my hand like kelpe
thorn cosmos
Might cut Sidisi for gitrog. Mill more and more zombies but how many do I really need
austere dew
Might cut Sidisi for gitrog. Mill more and more zombies but how many do I really...
you know, if you really cared about it, you could use a hypergeometric calculator to figure out the actual answer to "how many do I really need"
thorn cosmos
Hahaha. It just comes down to do you want more potential zombies or more potential draw. I think I like card selection more here
Plus gitrog is 1 color less but 1 more cmc. Easier to cast
Really need that blue mana to hold up Interaction. I don't like tapping out unless I'm casting teval.
And I mostly use lightning greaves in all my decks but haven't slotted it here
I think most folks think this teval is not a threat. And it's not it's just an engine that enables the deck to ramp which is like the most threatening thing but folks don't seem to think so.
austere dew
Honestly, I think all 3 haste boots are worth running in this deck. Not for their protection, but because teval gets a huge boost in value if it has haste
the protection is just icing on the cake
thorn cosmos
See I like it for the protection more. The attack is the bonus. I'll find a cut for lightning greaves or lava spur. I'm not a fan if swifties
proper creek
It's also straight up not evasion
I saw these cards linked and I thought I was in the kotis fangkeeper general for a moment
thorn cosmos
I saw these cards linked and I thought I was in the kotis fangkeeper general for...
Ok they are good cards.
[[Beast master ascension]]
[[Coat of arms]]
Things like this make the trample very worth it. It os a viable style to play teval
thorn cosmos
Hell if craterhoof is a valid way to end a game then having trample and things like [[overwhelming stampede]] and [[triumph of the hordes]] is fine
smoky scarabBOT
Legendary Creature — Nightmare Beast Elemental
Mutate 
(If you cast this spell for its mutate cost, put it over or under target non-Human creature you own. They mutate into the creature on top plus all abilities from under it.)
Trample
You may cast this card from your graveyard using its mutate ability.
6/6
proper creek
unfortunately too pricy but imagine a buff that comes from the gy that procs teval www
I got this for a kotis build but I haven't come around to it yet since I need to play my teval list more
thorn cosmos
Cut 3 tree city for shifting and cut sidisi for gitrog.
Debating on keeping realms uncharted or not
It's a pretty good card
broken hornet
Im going to proxy up a gifts ungiven at some point today for one of my decks and see what happens
thorn cosmos
Im going to proxy up a gifts ungiven at some point today for one of my decks and...
You'll win off it I guarantee it
broken hornet
I'm not playing the kinds of cards that'll auto win off a gifts
It'll probably be 4 creatures or 3 lands and a creature piles
thorn cosmos
@austere dew Those peat bog style lands I can verify are fucking busted in this deck. If I get one turn 1 or 2 it's a turn 3 teval guaranteed. Super accelerated early game and let me tap them for different things if yavimaya or urborg is out. Crazy good tech
austere dew
Yeah I thought they would be. That’s awesome to hear. Now I need to find room for them in my deck
broken hornet
If I'm playing them I'm cutting the surveil lands or something of the sort
And in keeping the 2 cmc ramp spells
thorn cosmos
I had no surveil lands so I cut some filter lands
broken hornet
Yeah
thorn cosmos
And in keeping the 2 cmc ramp spells
I keep debating on cutting life from the loam but I know that's Stupid lol
broken hornet
I'm not cutting my dredge stuff
The 3 dredge cards I play give me tools to repeatedly mill
And they all do things I want them to do
Life from the loam is self explanatory alongside the dredge land
thorn cosmos
I guess I should run more dredge but I don't care about dredge
broken hornet
And the golgari grave troll is a repeatable beater
thorn cosmos
Dakmore. How do you discard dakmore to dredge it again
proper creek
@broken hornet so regarding your boardwipe rec last week, the shop got aetherize/blasphemous edict but unfortunately no deluge/culling
Also got a wight myself so I can do the cheeky quiz bojuka bog thing now
broken hornet
Sounds good
thorn cosmos
Shifting woodlands 100% won me the game tonight. Someone wiped and it was 30 creatures and I turned it into syr konrad. Great land
broken hornet
So I played the deck twice and won both games
The first game I reanimated an early valgavoth and with a floral evoker, golgari grave troll and river keplie I looped and milled my hard enough to be able to make a giant grave troll with haste thanks to lightning greaves and killed the table
Game 2 I resolved a Nissa of shaded boroughs with river keplie out and reanimated lumara to draw 8 cards after I stuck an early lotus field with a turn 3 teval.
I proceeded to keep the advantage train going until I found a win through dredging enough cards through life from the loam to hit my cratehoof and then reanimated it to kill the table
River Kelpie is an absolute house
And was the MVP
The deck felt clunky until i hit with teval though so I will probably slightly tweak the deck to make it a little smoother early
But outside of that it felt good
broken hornet
Also
Culling ritual is completely fucked
17 mana from a culling ritual
was just
game winning game 1
it let me put out all my beaters and do the dredge loop
lotus field was crazy good
and sylvan safekeeper let me do funny things
thorn cosmos
Culling ritual is completely fucked
Going to add this as a wipe
thorn cosmos
and more targeted removal
See my list for targeted examples.
Last night I used Fumble and beast within
Did people feel like it was fair
broken hornet
Its gonna be pongify and rapid hybridization
its mostly a quesiton of where
It might be over cursecloth wrappings
and something else tbh
maybe stitchers
ill try that
thorn cosmos
I've never liked stitchers first few turns lol
proper creek
hand that make me wanna mill myself
thorn cosmos
Oh man I need a [[peerless recycling]] lol
smoky scarabBOT
broken hornet
Pongify/Rapid Hybridization might become abrupt decay instead
but thats the updated list
I cut fierce and another card to make sure I can add an offer you can't refuse and specifically gifts ungiven as a game changer
proper creek
I'm so sad that I feel like I'm constantly mana screwed on teval, the moment I switch to my izzet deck I managed to win and didn't even feel what having the wrong color is 😔
thorn cosmos
I'm so sad that I feel like I'm constantly mana screwed on teval, the moment I s...
2 c vs 3 c things
thorn cosmos
[[Reality shift]]
[[Resclupt]]
Not bad either
thorn cosmos
[[Resculpt]]
smoky scarabBOT
broken hornet
So I either want the versatility of abrupt decay or the ability to do it for cheaper if I'm hitting creatures
That's basically all there is maybe I play all 3
astral dirge
hey guys, I am relatively new to magic, and I built teval as my 2nd commander deck. I am having trouble focusing the deck into something i like. I have in mind a solid bracket 4 deck, but I know I am all over the place. Can I get some pointers, or answer some questions, or get asked some questions to help me out?
thanks. Here's my current list
https://moxfield.com/decks/54CL2OilTUmGh96QzVlcXg
thorn cosmos
hey guys, I am relatively new to magic, and I built teval as my 2nd commander de...
Your cmc is too high for bracket 4. No combo pieces. No tutors. As is just play in 3. You need like 15 to 20 pieces of Interaction and most of it cheap and free to hang in 4s
Pretty much you want to combo out. [[Mesmeric orb]] with a [[Basalt monolith]] and dread return into your combo piece or
[[Protean hulk]] sac lines
smoky scarabBOT
Artifact
This artifact doesn't untap during your untap step.
: Add .
: Untap this artifact.
thorn cosmos
All our decks are tuned to 3s. I would start there and learn the deck and how to play it and then tune up once you get comfortable
astral dirge
Your cmc is too high for bracket 4. No combo pieces. No tutors. As is just play ...
When you say no tutors and no combo pieces, you mean aside from Thassa, and vampiric tutor, lotus light, buried alive, tainted, dem consult, right?
thorn cosmos
Thoracle is a bracket 5 thing
astral dirge
I can lower cmc, and I ordered some cheap interaction. The orb monolith stuff is cool, so I’ll slot that in,
Is that always true?
thorn cosmos
Is that always true?
I've seen it in 4s and I'll counter it but if you play it there it's obnoxious to end the game that fast
Just go play in 5s
thorn cosmos
Proxy
astral dirge
My pod doesn’t like proxy
thorn cosmos
They are assholes
astral dirge
It’s okay, I can slot it out
astral dirge
They are assholes
True,
thorn cosmos
If you do it while emptying your library end game cool
If you consult turn 2 or 3 go play 5s
astral dirge
I never do nor try to :D, but maybe that’s what everyone says… then one day….
I like the mesmeric orb thing, what do you dread return, normally?
thorn cosmos
Uh depends on build
astral dirge
Right!
astral dirge
I have watched hours of gameplay and played ~ 18 games in two weeks (2 days total) Which is why I’m all over the place cause I see so many things I like. I’m not saying I know anything, just that I’ve consumed content and made gradual improvements, but I need direction. There’s too much cool stuff to do and I can’t decide lol
thorn cosmos
I went the drain route. Works for me.
Colossal went land toolbox
Aussie is trying to turbo out huge fatties
austere dew
My pod doesn’t like proxy
The current deck list you just posted above is $1000, and you’re saying it’s not proxies? And you’re just starting out with commander? What the actual fuck dude. You’re like rich rich
astral dirge
The current deck list you just posted above is $1000, and you’re saying it’s not...
I’m not though, I like card games, I don’t do drugs, I don’t smoke, I don’t drink, my other hobby is playing basketball, so I have some money to spend on something I like, it could have been an e bike, or a jersey collection, instead it’s this 😂
austere dew
Well, if it makes you happy then more power to you.
proper creek
In comparison I just got into mtg the last month and I spent 300 usd for 2 precon, the upgrades 2 prerelease and 2 draft is it as bad 👼
thorn cosmos
It's whatever. Couple years ago I cleared a couple hundred grand spend 3 on mtg
RL cards
Got my lotus field today
Woo
thorn cosmos
Exotic orchard or a cephalod collesium to cut for lotus field. I'm thinking collesium
broken hornet
I am likely to get some games in here and there on untap this week if not some more games Friday
With teval
thorn cosmos
What's untap
broken hornet
It's like cockatrice and the like
The biggest thing will be getting enough games with the depletion lands
How many games are they clunky
austere dew
What's untap
It’s an fan run online simulator. It is extremely laggy and buggy, but it’s also entirely web based, so you don’t have to download anything for it. You just go to the website and play. It can even import deck lists from Archidekt and Moxfield. It’s where I do all my online testing
broken hornet
It’s an fan run online simulator. It is *extremely* laggy and buggy, but it’s al...
The bugs can be very annoying
thorn cosmos
How many games are they clunky
If I get one in my first 7 or 8 I play it then
If I mill one I'll bring it back
broken hornet
I'm not asking, I'm saying that's what I'm testing for
thorn cosmos
Oh cool enjoy
broken hornet
It's one of the more important things to test for tbh
Because if they're too clunky I need to potentially add fellwar stone/talismans
astral dirge
Lmao I’m gonna mill myself, I lost my deck. I’ll come back with a different list when I get some more cards
thorn cosmos
Anyone using blood ghast in their lists? Need a sac outlet to make this worth something?
proper creek
is will of the abzan too expensive for a rez card?
broken hornet
No
It has a solid effect in itself
It's a slightly worse March of the witch king
And even then it being slightly worse doesn't even make it bad
[[March of the witch-king]]
smoky scarabBOT
proper creek
it;'s rise
smoky scarabBOT
broken hornet
[[rise of the witch-king]]
smoky scarabBOT
proper creek
[[rise of the witch-king]]
smoky scarabBOT
broken hornet
With your commander out it's actually better than rise
Because it forces them to sacrifice their biggest creature
proper creek
oh the abzan will is like three times the price of the others w
if I wanna pursue a drain/reanimate hybrid playstyle how many reanimate effect do you think is good to put into the deck?
broken hornet
I don't know the exact number to be perfectly honest
I run a few reanimation effects but I also run alot of creatures that can also bring themselves back
so I am less reliant on them
proper creek
Wait I hear someone mentioned that satyr Wayfinder and ainok wayfarer are bad but how do we feel about [[dredged insight]]
smoky scarabBOT
broken hornet
They pay off is bad, and the etb leaves a little to be desired especially when there are better things to put that effect on
proper creek
Would you aay it's better than the other two though. I'm working on budget so w
broken hornet
[[satyr wayfinder]]
smoky scarabBOT
broken hornet
[[ainok wayfinder]]
smoky scarabBOT
broken hornet
[[ainok wayfarer]]
smoky scarabBOT
broken hornet
Objectively ainok wayfarer is better than the card you suggested
So
To explain why
proper creek
Just the body?
broken hornet
Satyr wayfinder is bad because it can't trigger teval
When you do the mill it's after you picked one of the cards. Where as if it milled first then you picked a card it counts as a card leaving the graveyard
The enchantment does the thing you want
Except
proper creek
Yeah I know that
broken hornet
Gaining 1 life each time is negligible and not worth existing as an enchantment
At least with a creature it can be reanimated easily and is a body you can use
Even then it's a bad card
Like all 3 are bad
And not worth playing even on a budget
There are probably alot more playable cards that are budget friendly
proper creek
What would you suggest to replace this slot though
I get it but I don't wanna lose myself too much in buying singles and get lost in the sauce
broken hornet
A) I don't know off the top of my head
B) I don't know what's already in your list and how much of a budget you are looking at and the like
proper creek
Basically I just spent like 35 bucks on six + deathrite and like 15 bucks on some boardwipe.....
thorn cosmos
Wait I hear someone mentioned that satyr Wayfinder and ainok wayfarer are bad bu...
It's ok if you have a lifegain/ life drain theme
proper creek
I think if such a replacement exist in bulk common uncommon rarity it'd be nice
thorn cosmos
Otherwise it doesn't fit
proper creek
Understandable
thorn cosmos
[[Worthy cost]]
smoky scarabBOT
smoky scarabBOT
proper creek
So if there are like suggestion that are in bulk common uncommon rarity in recent set I can try and see if I can dig around for it in the shop's bulk collections
broken hornet
It's ok if you have a lifegain/ life drain theme
It's not even great unless you actually have a pay off for life gain, but if you are going that far down the rabbit hole of that sort of though process, you are running a super duper unfocused deck and did something very wrong.
thorn cosmos
As I said. Lifegain drain. The drain is payoff of the gain lol
proper creek
I feel lifegain is moreso a side thing thstd be nice to help me stave off kill option, I have tatyova in the list but yeah doubt it's worth making it a main focus
proper creek
I know it's worth in betor
broken hornet
Kyoshi, if you are going that far down the rabbit hole you are considering that card, you are straight up building the deck real bad.
proper creek
But this is da wrong clan
broken hornet
Aka the rabbit hole of building ofc life gain triggers
proper creek
My favorite life gain payoff is ajani pridemate and bats banging my opponent in standard
🙂
thorn cosmos
Kyoshi, if you are going that far down the rabbit hole you are considering that ...
Well whatever your opinion is I cam make teval a Lifegain drain deck pretty easily with things like
[[Retreat to hagra]]
And [[veinripper]] and other effects
proper creek
ONE MORBILLION LIFE GAIN TRIGGER
thorn cosmos
The point is you can do whatever
Will be be effective? Maybe? Do I care enough to do it? Maybe to prove that I can haha
proper creek
So I suppose the suggestion is drop the card entirely and just run removal in its place instead
thorn cosmos
So I suppose the suggestion is drop the card entirely and just run removal in it...
Yes
proper creek
I've actually been finding it difficult to mill recently. Maybe it's just bad hands but also it worried me so I was trying to find early mill enabler
thorn cosmos
Run more interaction is my favorite thing to say
proper creek
I can't start every game with a hedron crab in hand unfortunately
thorn cosmos
I've actually been finding it difficult to mill recently. Maybe it's just bad ha...
The commander should be enough
I cut hedron lol
proper creek
Yeah but that's on t4
Lately I've straight up just having to spend first 3 turn with empty gy
thorn cosmos
So?
broken hornet
The point is you can do whatever
You can do "whatever" but if someone is actively asking for legitimate help being super open ended and afraid to say a bad card is bad is really bas for giving advice
This person is asking for actual advice to build their budget deck, a budget deck needs to be more focused not less because they don't have access to the more expensive and versatile cards. Saying "oh it's good in life gain" as if it's an option is really bad advice.
proper creek
My table is a bit too high power for that stuff to be okay really so part of why I ask about this is because I am looking for early drops, which the enchantment/ainok/satyr all are.
broken hornet
They don't have the luxury of building whatever they want out of that shell, so don't act as if they can.
proper creek
Also its not like I haven't run any interaction, I've been trying my best in putting in some counterspells and boardwipes
broken hornet
I'll go through regularly printed rares and commons and unconmons tomorrow
I don't have time today
I'll find things that are cheap and synergistic that cover holes here and there
proper creek
I did put in some decent 2/3 drops recently but like, I'm still on ainok and if it's as bad as yall said then I'm open to replacements. I'm just also thinking that I want to....buy a set of fetch instead of changing what my deck do so I don't wanna pay 15 bucks on a ripple of undeath or anything like that