Not sure where I’m gonna go on it yet and yeah mine is too
#Ms. Bumbleflower: Communal Brewing
pastel agate
But, like, imagine Rishkar’s expertise where you also drop a 5feri
And trigger bumbleflower the second time
Rishkar’s isn’t really a 6 mana spell here since it also gives you a freebie
So in reality it’s like 6 mana discounted by however much the next spell is
pastel agate
Which even if our curve is a little lower than three, I’d “pay” the “extra” mana to tack drawing 10-15 cards onto that
pastel agate
Garruk, Primal Hunter —> Rishkar’s Expertise
untold oxide
Coz 5/6 mana make a beast is kinda……
pastel agate
Tbh, all garruk ever did for me was make people concede after I already had a teferi and tamiyo emblem, so…
untold oxide
I know it gets better over time but realistically you are making a beast the first turn
pastel agate
I know it gets better over time but realistically you are making a beast the fir...
Eh, I just -3 immediately most times
Which is even more reason to run rishkar’s instead
untold oxide
Then I feel rishkars is way better
pastel agate
We’ve officially passed 1,000 messages on this thread!
untold oxide
Man I can’t send gifs
untold oxide
I was gonna send the “with a million more well on the way”
untold oxide
I love community brewing decks it’s great
brazen phoenix
How works this deck?
untold oxide
Give opponents cards, we draw more cards coz of payoffs
brazen phoenix
How works this deck?
And how wins this deck
untold oxide
Use card advantage to bury people
brazen phoenix
Give opponents cards, we draw more cards coz of payoffs
So smotherig thide is great for this deck
untold oxide
Picking up my cards from the shop that I was missing
Coz my glussy copy of gluntch is going in the fire
pastel agate
Missing? Spore frog and forgotten ancient are in the precon holmes
untold oxide
I didn’t buy the precon
pastel agate
Oh i see
untold oxide
I bought ms b and had the rest of the cards in my deck already
pastel agate
I need to find my full art foil Jolrael, I know I had a couple sitting around
I want to nab a full art foil whale
untold oxide
Full art foil whale was £0.30 more than the normal whale
You can bet I’m paying that bit extra for shiny rectangle
pastel agate
100% I want to fully foil this deck
untold oxide
I’ve not even finishing foiling my tatyova yet
Fetchlands are killer
And fa foil FoW is savage
pastel agate
I fortunately got pretty lucky in my MH3 boxes and eventually traded up to a old border foil bloodstained mire
untold oxide
Coz the Dom remastered one looks like anus
formal ruin
because the old art is great
untold oxide
Having funds in the bank is also great
pastel agate
Pancakes and I are watching for the APs to become available
solemn hamlet
Her art is the best 😭
formal ruin
how do artist proof
pastel agate
Contact the artist usually
main dock
Contact the artist usually
Removed timeout; just change the .gg to .com
bypasses the automod
main dock
no worries! sometimes folks forget
pastel agate
That’s the Artist Proof discord
pastel agate
Heh, I like
pastel agate
No UK?
pastel agate
Oh, yeh. Sorry homie
untold oxide
Wot
They cant/wont ship to the UK? Or do they jsut charge more?
Coz ill pay £10-20 in shipping if I need to
formal ruin
ive gotten things in the past but I generally just buy local because ive been turned down quite a few times by EU-based and US-based people before
pastel agate
Sea of Clouds, Bountiful Promenade, Rejuvenating Springs —> Polluted Delta, Marsh Flats, Verdant Catacombs
Better to get the color I need right now than hope I get it from the bond lands tbh
And, flavorfully, I think adding a hint of black to the deck shows our true intentions :3
untold oxide
i feel like I need to add fetches
given im playing shocks and duals
might also get the triome
pastel agate
My decks always have on-color fetches, duals, shocks, and triome if applicable
I’ve started adding the surveils because they’re crazy good value
I wish they’d make the scry lands typed lol
solemn hamlet
I wish the surveil lands weren't so darn expensive
brave folioBOT
pastel agate
Oh yeah
I forgot they’re floating around the $5 range
https://discord.com/channels/675113113934364683/1270745265841897522
If y’all wanna chime in on bumbleflower brewing
Thoughts on [[tamiyo inquiditive]]? We can reliably flip her and the -3 can buy back our protection spells
brave folioBOT
pastel agate
[[tamiyo inquisitive]]
brave folioBOT
Legendary Creature — Moonfolk Wizard
Flying
Whenever Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student attacks, investigate. (Create a Clue token. It's an artifact with "
, Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.")
When you draw your third card in a turn, exile Tamiyo, then return her to the battlefield transformed under her owner's control.
0/3
Tamiyo, Seasoned Scholar
Legendary Planeswalker — Tamiyo
+2: Until your next turn, whenever a creature attacks you or a planeswalker you control, it gets -1/-0 until end of turn.
−3: Return target instant or sorcery card from your graveyard to your hand. If it's a green card, add one mana of any color.
−7: Draw cards equal to half the number of cards in your library, rounded up. You get an emblem with "You have no maximum hand size."
Loyalty: 2
pastel agate
I ended up cutting [[steelburr champion]]
brave folioBOT
Creature — Mouse Soldier
Offspring 
(You may pay an additional as you cast this spell. If you do, when this creature enters, create a 1/1 token copy of it.)
Vigilance
Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.
"The secret to victory is simple. Don't lose."
1/1
solemn hamlet
Are they really?
Some are creeping up towards 10 iirc
pastel agate
Oh jeez
solemn hamlet
Told ya to cut steelburr forever ago haha, whatd you replace with?
pastel agate
Tamiyo
She can make us make while buying back protection, and the -1/-0 isn’t to be sneezed at
Plus her ult is yet another “i win if you don’t deal with this” effect
solemn hamlet
Yeah definitely better
I'm not really a planeswalker enjoyer so I never include them
untold oxide
Steelburr was one I saw and though nah that’s precon chaff
Coz offspring is just weird squad
And squad was awful outside of heinous amounts of mana
untold oxide
[[$tamiyo inquisitive]]
brave folioBOT
untold oxide
hm seems pricey for what it is
pastel agate
Yeah, price isn’t a huge issue for me, just the effect
untold oxide
im already playing [[tamiyo, collector of tales]]
brave folioBOT
pastel agate
Interesting
untold oxide
we got some tergrid
but yeah $30 for that tamiyo seems overpriced to me
the card is mid in edh at best, most id be willing to pay is $15
untold oxide
See printer also go brrrrr in my meta but im weird
and I only print cards I already own
Its entirely self imposed like no one asked me to do it
untold oxide
Could probs snag a copy off a friend for cheap though
They tend to open too many packs
solemn hamlet
My friends just give each other cards that are good in our decks
untold oxide
Yeah im not that kind
I think of the cards I actually use, my average card cost has to be above $10
pastel agate
My friends just give each other cards that are good in our decks
I do to an extent. I got way too much bulk and am happy to lose a couple bucks on a trade if it means a card that’s rotting in my binder gets used finally
untold oxide
if its a common or uncommon sure, but rares and mythics that ive held onto are usually pricey
I straight up chuck the packs I buy for entry to FNM in the bin and keep the land if its full art and the playable rares/mythics
pastel agate
I think the most expensive thing I’ve given away is a [[$mithril coat]]
brave folioBOT
pastel agate
Which the guy was playing Bello and 100% needed it and I wasn’t using it lol
Problem is I also play pauper so I like keeping the best ones of those lol
untold oxide
I had one pack of NEO that I opened and took the FA land out and binned the rest still in the booster pack 🤣
I checked the cards ofc, just didnt see anything worth keeping
untold oxide
Thats my standard now, I have too many cards at home
pastel agate
I usually just go through my box and cull the truly unplayable stuff every once in a while
I’ll end up giving like 1.5k cards to a newer player
untold oxide
I cant keep bringing back a pack or two a week, that adds up over time, especially if I do prereleases
see I dont
mine just keeps building
pastel agate
Sounds like ya gotta evaluate if you really need the cards or if you want to make a new player’s week 😉
We play group hug IRL because it means more people to play magic with heh
untold oxide
honestly id happily chuck them at a new player
my wife would celebrate as one of the desk drawers became empty
rough dove
So I have a question. Whats the highest power level anyone has found success with bumbleflower?
pastel agate
You could very easily get her to high power
rough dove
I've just won a lobby for 8. Curious to see how far into the CEDH territory she goes.
pastel agate
I think giving away cards is too bad for you in cedh
rough dove
So normally, yes. However in practice it could be a much different story given the meta.
untold oxide
I feel like ms b gets to about "an 8" at most.
pastel agate
Maybe. She can definitely get way up there but giving away cards has a very direct ceiling
untold oxide
Yeah, giving people card draw is bad when people are playing A+B's
rough dove
Maybe. She can definitely get way up there but giving away cards has a very dire...
Because card advantage with any other commander is bad. You maintain parity and have a ton of tools to break it that aren't worth high power counters compared to what other threats folks will be slapping down.
pastel agate
True
untold oxide
So you want to be parasitic and sorta leech off everyone else doing things
I could see that
rough dove
It's a valid strategy
pastel agate
You’d definitely need as much free interaction as you can get your hands on
untold oxide
Ive got a number of high power decks that do that
Turbo Kriik is one of em
Interaction almost zero.
But its fast as fuck boi
rough dove
I'd imagine a CEDH bumbleflower would run a ton of counterspells, seedborn muse, and much more durable mana dorks than what we all run
Likely more blink as well to leverage higher power staples like one ring
untold oxide
I think it would be a stax deck tbh, with a+b combos in it and a ton of counters
untold oxide
Updated list: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Y08hnsGhakm5pT0pp4IiuA
Removed: Space beleren, Azusa, Swan song, Wandering archaic, Calamity's wake, T3f, sunfall
Added: dreamtide whale, Jolrael, Evolution witness, Spore Frog, forgotten ancient, Profts, rishkars
untold oxide
Things im consdiering cutting: Shabraz, Monologue tax, avacyns pilgrim, Kodamas reach
glossy fox
[[Shabraz]]
brave folioBOT
Legendary Creature — Shark Bird
Partner with Brallin, Skyshark Rider
Flying
Whenever you draw a card, put a +1/+1 counter on Shabraz, the Skyshark and you gain 1 life.
: Target Human gains flying until end of turn.
3/3
pastel agate
Shabraz has been such a good card for me
Once you really get going you start gaining a ton of life and shark just naturally becomes a lethal threat
untold oxide
I think im finally at that stage where kodama reach and cultivate arent playable
they just never feel good to resolve now
glossy fox
I think im finally at that stage where kodama reach and cultivate arent playable
Kodamas reach is a great spell
What are you talking about
untold oxide
i feel like [[harrow]] is way more playable
brave folioBOT
glossy fox
i feel like [[harrow]] is way more playable
Run both
solemn hamlet
Forgot to order Faerie Artisans 😡
brave folioBOT
untold oxide
Yo that’s even better
pastel agate
Yeah if the power level you’re shooting for allows for nadu it gets real nasty
untold oxide
I haven’t had Nadu come up yet so I’m not entirely sure how that one goes
hot breach
Has [[faerie mastermind]] been mentioned? 1000+ messages is a lot to look through
brave folioBOT
Creature — Faerie Rogue
Flash
Flying
Whenever an opponent draws their second card each turn, you draw a card.
: Each player draws a card.
Yuta Takahashi, World Champion XXVII
2/1
untold oxide
yeah its in myl ist
hot breach
So much value
untold oxide
pretty sure it was in umaru's too
solemn hamlet
It's in most of our lists yeah
rustic stone
Could someone tell me the general playstyle/gameplan if Ms. Bumbleflower?
Like I get the group hug aspect, but a bit more in depth.
untold oxide
Use the +1/+1 counters to make threats, use payoffs to fuel your hand to get the second trigger off bumbleflower.
Protect your board while you grow it and then start chinning people with largemen
Usually people leave you alone because you give them cards.
Utilise that to push advantage
Also ulting planeswalkers just ends the game basically, especially Tef hero of dominaria
solemn hamlet
It plays kind of similar to Breena, but you control the incentives more closely.
rough dove
Like I get the group hug aspect, but a bit more in depth.
There's several different builds that focus on separate aspects of Bumble's ability.
You can generate more card draw to end up having card advantage.
You can use things like Rites of Flourishing to be able to accelerate quickly, using a higher land count and maybe another extra land play card like Azusa or Case of the Locked Hot House. Basically leaning into the simic value angle.
There's "toxic positivity" in which you use the group hug and bounce spells to overflow opponent's hands and force unfavorable discards.
There's straight group hug, where you strip out a lot of winning potential to give yourself "kingmaker" tools.
Lastly, there's a more control build that uses the refill from bumbleflower to interact continuously on opponents turns.
rustic stone
What does the precon go into?
rough dove
The +1/1's can build into a lethal voltron-esque kill as well.
rough dove
What does the precon go into?
It's split between all.
oblique breach
What does the precon go into?
Precon is unfocused
untold oxide
Yeah you kinda need to pick a direction yourself.
rough dove
My best suggestion, play the base version a few times to find what cards really speak to you, then lean into that strategy. There's a lot of flexibility in building the Bumbleflower of your dreams lol
rustic stone
Damn. Would a small mix up superfriends be good? Like undecided theme + superfriends subtheme?
hot breach
There's several different builds that focus on separate aspects of Bumble's abil...
There’s also and I wish I was kidding [[food chain]]
brave folioBOT
rustic stone
My best suggestion, play the base version a few times to find what cards really ...
I'll probably do that with a little bit of Planeswalkers.
rough dove
Damn. Would a small mix up superfriends be good? Like undecided theme + superfri...
Umaru uses planewalkers and dreamtide whale to great effect, peep his list to get some inspiration 🙂
You can also use spells like [[mutational advantage]] over the usual heroic intervention
brave folioBOT
oblique breach
There’s also and I wish I was kidding [[food chain]]
oh wow food chain combos in this deck who would’ve guessed !!!
oblique breach
I'll probably do that with a little bit of Planeswalkers.
walkers are tough in edh but you have good proliferate colors & it works w your +1/ +1 counters
so go off
rough dove
I could see an argument for doubling season or vorinclex monsterous raider for cheesing the ultimates out.
oblique breach
I’ve been not liking doubling season as of late
rough dove
I’ve been not liking doubling season as of late
I've moved from "its a value card" to "if it isn't being used in a combo, the space is better opened up for something else"
hot breach
oh wow food chain combos in this deck who would’ve guessed !!!
You got the colours to find the bits and bumbleflower doesn’t have a limit on “opponent drawing cards” though you can reset the hugs rabbit to get the draw again
oblique breach
The argument that it’s 5 mana do nothing was always there but w better wipes & removal & etc etc the 5 mana nothing rlly bites now
Also there’s so many other good cards you can play now
formal ruin
you dont run doubling season, you run [[innkeepers talant]] because it helps protect all your key pieces from removal
brave folioBOT
Enchantment — Class
(Gain the next level as a sorcery to add its ability.)
At the beginning of combat on your turn, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control.
: Level 2
Permanents you control with counters on them have ward .
: Level 3
If you would put one or more counters on a permanent or player, put twice that many of each of those kinds of counters on that permanent or player instead.
formal ruin
uhh sooo apparently
0 mana artifacts can combo off in this deck
this is news @pastel agate
pastel agate
pretty sure it was in umaru's too
It is now
untold oxide
what artifacts are doing this and how?
pastel agate
Damn. Would a small mix up superfriends be good? Like undecided theme + superfri...
I have, like, 7 walkers in my version
pastel agate
Umaru uses planewalkers and dreamtide whale to great effect, peep his list to ge...
❤️
pastel agate
You can also use spells like [[mutational advantage]] over the usual heroic inte...
👀👀👀👀
rustic stone
Bant proliferate?
pastel agate
0 mana artifacts can combo off in this deck
Nah i kinda knew about it. Josh Lee Kwai built his Game Knights deck around casting his second spell each turn
untold oxide
Note for myself:
-Eerie interlude
+mutational advantage
pastel agate
Lots of 0 mana baubles
pastel agate
Note for myself:
-Eerie interlude
+mutational advantage
That’s what I’m thinking
untold oxide
but how does that 'go off'?
pastel agate
Mutational is kinda nuts
untold oxide
sure its a free artifact spell
you get your second resolution and you draw the 2, then what?
pastel agate
Idk how it combos but certainly hitting your second spell more reliably is good?
untold oxide
but it doesnt
unless you can bounce those 0 cost artifacts back to your hand
its not a combo, just synergy
formal ruin
umarus list would combo with 0 mana artifacts tho
untold oxide
A combo is multiple cards interacting to end the game.
I dont see how adding a bunch of cheerios wins you the game in any of our lists currently.
if we played hullbreaker horror then maybe i see it
pastel agate
Individual card power is pretty high in my list, it’d be a hard sell to cut any of them for a low-no cost cantrip
Like, maybe git probe?
pastel agate
Food chain is a funny combo with bumbleflower, considering you can just deck your opponents
Or, like, deck two and kill the third
untold oxide
The way i play currently is, card quality is pretty high so to cut decent cards to play combo pieces. They'd need to function in isolation also
pastel agate
Yeah. Control lists 100% need their avg card quality to be as high as possible
untold oxide
So I had someone rage quit my pod the other day
Said bumbleflower is unfair and they want to play with normal decks
pastel agate
That’s Umaru approved salt right there baybeee
“How is it unfair, I’m literally giving away card draw”
untold oxide
I was kinda stunned, I was like bro im playing an average power deck which gives you cards.
Hit Tamiyo before I ult her maybe?
pastel agate
I would personally say there’s justification in playing slightly higher power cards since we’re giving cards away, but yes definitely hit the walkers lol
Surprisingly enough that time I ulted tamiyo and 5feri was the SECOND time I’ve ulted tamiyo
untold oxide
Yeah tamiyo is nuts in bumble
pastel agate
People just don’t even look your way at all if you’re giving them free shit
untold oxide
casting spells for free is a helluva drug
pastel agate
Speaking of - are we to the point of running as many free spells as we can get our hands on?
I.e. subtlety, flawless maneuver, fierce, solitude, endurance, misdirection
FoW if your table is that kinda level
untold oxide
I feel like we should
But i personally dont
id maybe make an argument for flare of fortitude as well.
pastel agate
I had flare in my paper list for a while
But i didn’t consistently have a white nontoken creature that wasn’t bumbleflower
formal ruin
I been taking some cards out of my piles for the bumbleflower
we putting ledger shredder in right
formal ruin
what about 6 mana teferiri
pastel agate
It’s definitely a pet card of mine
formal ruin
and 4 mana jace
formal ruin
the draw deck win game one
pastel agate
Oh, yeah. That’s already in my list
He’s a great backup plan when you deck yourself
formal ruin
is there an issue with white cards in the deck, is there not many? since im not sure how many to put in
pastel agate
I wouldn’t worry about color as much as effect
The only minor consideration is for stuff like solitude, but ideally you’re not gonna have to worry
I haven’t hardly ever had a problem so far exiling something not relevant to solitude
pastel agate
The walkers are definitely personal bias - I really like the repeated draw they provide, and the ult basically winning you the game is the cherry on top
Not to mention a good few of the ones I run providing repeated removal too as a backup
formal ruin
I think I'm making this deck a main deck where I play [[innkeepers talent]] so would make sense to put walkers in
brave folioBOT
Enchantment — Class
(Gain the next level as a sorcery to add its ability.)
At the beginning of combat on your turn, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control.
: Level 2
Permanents you control with counters on them have ward .
: Level 3
If you would put one or more counters on a permanent or player, put twice that many of each of those kinds of counters on that permanent or player instead.
formal ruin
because level 4 would win games when walker comes in
pastel agate
I need to find a copy of the card ;-; it got so expensive so quick
formal ruin
[[$innkeepers talent]]
brave folioBOT
formal ruin
$20 current listings, roughly $2 more than EU
solemn hamlet
Said bumbleflower is unfair and they want to play with normal decks
Man what the heck 🤣
glossy fox
Said bumbleflower is unfair and they want to play with normal decks
How???
untold oxide
Yeah your reactions are mine exactly
I’m still confused now
For some reason I though this thread was Umaru’s
I’m now realising that we just took over hahaha
untold oxide
Mine are concerned when I start handing out cards for free
But most of them aren’t worried yet
pastel agate
For some reason I though this thread was Umaru’s
Nope! This is for the community of Bnuuy enjoyers
untold oxide
haha, we've got the gift
formal ruin
commander givce counters to your greats
creatures
cards also give counters to your creatures
how does something that also gives counters to your creatures, plus ward 1 for 3 mana, not a good card?
daring ether
Because we shouldn’t care about ward 1 or getting a singular counter per turn.
solemn hamlet
Could you explain? I'm curious as to why you think that's not good.
pastel agate
Depends on the power level, I’d say. If you’re pushing the deck to the absolute max then caring about +1/+1 counters is useless
I’m suspecting you’re building her as a significantly higher power, Templar
daring ether
The only part we care about is the counter doubling. The others we have way better options for. The first ability is not made for commander.
pastel agate
It certainly helps
daring ether
If it wasn’t the cost of 6.3 loaded beef nachos from taco bell I’d say fine go ahead, but it’s not good enough in the deck to justify paying for it.
pastel agate
Ah, if we’re doing $cost/benefit analysis then sure
For the purposes of my deck I am not considering $cost
[[$innkeeper’s talent]]
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
Yeah that's real. I'm just running Hardened Scales myself
pastel agate
It’s also 204.37 Norwegian Kroner!
daring ether
It’s probably better than Lae’zal so it’s something.
pastel agate
Oh 100%
So I guess our question is: how badly do we want [[luminarch aspirant]] effects?
brave folioBOT
pastel agate
There’s ups and downs to each
Upside: constant counters, breaks board stalls very very well
Downside: slow building counters vs. just simply casting more spells
The protection is nice, but like I’ve said before the ward 
on the talent is an annoyance at best
Enforcing countering the spell or ability in commander is usually a no go, from experience
solemn hamlet
So I guess our question is: how badly do we want [[luminarch aspirant]] effects?
Yeah to be honest, not very much. If it's tacked onto something, yeah it's nice
That's why Talent looked alright for me. Scales to late game and whatnot
brave folioBOT
Enchantment — Class
(Gain the next level as a sorcery to add its ability.)
At the beginning of combat on your turn, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control.
: Level 2
Permanents you control with counters on them have ward .
: Level 3
If you would put one or more counters on a permanent or player, put twice that many of each of those kinds of counters on that permanent or player instead.
solemn hamlet
Right
pastel agate
I’m just wondering if this is a case of “players evaluate modal spells way too highly”
formal ruin
its insane with certain cards you are wanting to be playing
solemn hamlet
Costs split over multiple turns does help though. I'm just playing devils advocate here but its not terrible, I think it's pretty good
Idk about you but I have a lot of available mana in my build
pastel agate
Yeah. I suppose this could be a good opportunity for specific testing
formal ruin
its low to the ground, but it scales and allows some planeswalkers to ult right away in a way that is gamebreaking for the gameplan
pastel agate
If that’s the part we care about, why not Lae’zel?
formal ruin
if the meta goes to 7-9 turns consistently, there is room for the card to make the win on the spot
pastel agate
She does practically the same thing for 3 mana
formal ruin
[[lae'zel]]
brave folioBOT
pastel agate
[[lae’zel vlaakith]]
brave folioBOT
formal ruin
that does not do the same thing
pastel agate
It only adds one, but we aren’t adding more than one 99% of the time anyway
formal ruin
and I'd rather have pir
pastel agate
[[pir imaginative]]
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
It does less on a body, which is a downside in and of itself
formal ruin
pir finds toothy so
pastel agate
Ooh
For the purposes of doubling putting counters on stuff, I really gotta disagree
Peek through the decks, we’re only putting one counter on things at a time
formal ruin
im looking to ult walkers 🙂
pastel agate
Pir is good
I’m talking about the doubling vs. the +1 counters bit
And yeah. I agree that I like Pir more
[[toothy imaginary]]
brave folioBOT
pastel agate
This could be really, really good
formal ruin
let me try make list
pastel agate
My only issue is that, potentially, we wouldn’t be able to flicker toothy but I think that’s just having our cake and eating it too in this deck
Hmmm… pir and toothy simic planeswalkers….
That’s a brew for tonight I think lmao
solemn hamlet
My only issue is that, *potentially*, we wouldn’t be able to flicker toothy but ...
Turn him sideways until someone has to deal with him lol
pastel agate
That’s my thinking
He also gets fucking huge in this deck in no time
Basically Shabraz 2.0
Okay, so
I also would like to test Pir and Toothy
I’m thinking of cutting Innkeeper’s talent as I’ve been sold on not keeping it - I will certainly keep it in mind though. So, I need one more cut
I’m thinking forgotten ancient buuuuuut he would synergize so well with both bumbleflower AND the new packages
Maybe cultivate?
I do have a lot of card draw in the deck
solemn hamlet
[[Glen Elendra Archmage]]
brave folioBOT
Creature — Faerie Wizard
Flying
, Sacrifice Glen Elendra Archmage: Counter target noncreature spell.
Persist (When this creature dies, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a -1/-1 counter on it.)
2/2
solemn hamlet
For the most evil of builds
pastel agate
amber pawn
ive never played group hug or control in edh
amber pawn
i cant get that to load for some reason
pastel agate
But there’s easy changes to make to tone down the budget while also keeping good power
Hm
amber pawn
im getting a 400 error
solemn hamlet
Loads fine for me
amber pawn
let me try a different browser
pastel agate
Might be your internet
Could clear your cache/cookies
That can cause whoopsies sometimes
amber pawn
wow thats pricy
pastel agate
Like I said, easy to make changes to tune down the price
amber pawn
almost all the instants are $20 at least lol
pastel agate
If you want, you can duplicate the deck and remove all the cards above, say, $5
solemn hamlet
What is your budget?
pastel agate
Also the dual lands whose prices aren’t listed
amber pawn
ill honestly be starting with the precon and maybe $10-20 in upgrades that are immediately game changing lol
pastel agate
Okay, so let’s start at the precon
Got a list?
I’d recommend duplicating the precon list and we can edit from there
That’s the precon
pastel agate
Post the list here
pastel agate
So first we can start with a few cuts
Here’s my first cut recommendations. I can provide reasoning for any of then if you like.
coveted jewel
ghirapur orrery
triskaidekaphile
Intellectual offering
Jolly Gerbils
Rites of Flourishing
1x island
Hoofprints of the stag
Sphinx of Enlightenment
Sorry had to give it some thought lol
amber pawn
Jolly gerbils is the only one i wondered about
rustic stone
Cause the deck has little gift cards I assume.
pastel agate
It has gifts, but the deck not only isn’t built around it but also only has, like, 3 gifts cards
amber pawn
understood
pastel agate
Just counted, it has 4
So since you’re on a budget, a great way to play against opponents above your weight class is to use their weight class against them
You want to protect yourself and your board while also enticing them to attack each other
And, notably, you do NOT want to be giving out value unless YOU choose to do so
Hence why I recommend removing coveted jewel, ghirapur orrery and rites of flourishing
Because they give it to everyone without you saying so
amber pawn
makes sense
formal ruin
im at 93 atm
pastel agate
I’ll ping @solemn hamlet and ask for their decklist because they have a much more aikido-focused gameplan
amber pawn
aikido?
pastel agate
Aikido is a concept that you use your opponents strength/weight against them - in commander that means using your opponents creatures and effects back at them/against each other
Effects like [[propaganda]], [[ghostly prison]], and [[duelist’s heritage]] entice your opponents to send stuff elsewhere
brave folioBOT
Enchantment
Creatures can't attack you unless their controller pays for each creature they control that's attacking you.
"The cost of your opposition will be extracted from your wits." —Nekusar, the Mindrazer
Enchantment
Creatures can't attack you unless their controller pays for each creature they control that's attacking you.
Though the spirits' bodies were ethereal, Agnur soon learned that their blades were quite solid—and razor-sharp.
pastel agate
Nvm I found their list
So one fantastic addition I’d 100% recommend no matter what is [[heliod radiant]]
brave folioBOT
Legendary Enchantment Creature — God
When Heliod, the Radiant Dawn enters, return target enchantment card that isn't a God from your graveyard to your hand.
: Transform Heliod, the Radiant Dawn. Activate only as a sorcery. ( can be paid with either or 2 life.)
"Compleat the faith, compleat the god." —Ajani Goldmane
4/4
Heliod, the Warped Eclipse
Legendary Enchantment Creature — Phyrexian God
You may cast spells as though they had flash.
Spells you cast cost less to cast for each card your opponents have drawn this turn.
"Compleat the god, compleat the plane." —Ajani Goldmane
4/6
pastel agate
He gives you flash speed, and makes your spells cheaper
Since you’re forcing your opponents to draw, it’s super effective
solemn hamlet
@amber pawn if your meta is less combo focused and has a lot of big creatures/effects aikido is super strong and rewarding. It also scales to the tables power to an extent. The aikido gameplan can operate in a wide range of pods and not be overpowering, because after all a lot of stuff you do depends on your opponents actions.
amber pawn
what is aikido though?
pastel agate
what is aikido though?
#1268557458767614043 message
rustic stone
How I'm seeing it, it's essentially putting your opponents into a vat of sugar and hoping they have a sweet tooth. Right?
pastel agate
Not really.
It’s more “I’m going to make you not able to attack me, want to attack someone else, and/or force you to get punished for trying to attack me”
amber pawn
Ah sorry I had missed the response you sent earlier
pastel agate
All good
solemn hamlet
The punish part is the crux of it. Because when someone does inevitably come at you, that's when you want to be ready to pull out all the stops.
pastel agate
[[comeuppance]]
brave folioBOT
amber pawn
That’s awesome
pastel agate
Yup, so once you’ve put up a bit of a shell and they still decide to attack? Wipe their board and deal them a ton of damage back
All the while you’ve got a huge bunny that gets bigger every turn and flies on your turn, so you have a great attacker AND blocker
Another thing to consider is alt win cons like you said you liked - there’s plenty of good options
Namely things like [[approach of the second sun]]
brave folioBOT
pastel agate
Great in this deck since you can churn really easily through
amber pawn
i do like that card alot
ok. so with what i took out, what are the main add ins that youd start with?
pastel agate
This is the harder part tbh
Personally, I’d say let’s do some obvious ones and work from there
[[heliod radiant]]
brave folioBOT
Legendary Enchantment Creature — God
When Heliod, the Radiant Dawn enters, return target enchantment card that isn't a God from your graveyard to your hand.
: Transform Heliod, the Radiant Dawn. Activate only as a sorcery. ( can be paid with either or 2 life.)
"Compleat the faith, compleat the god." —Ajani Goldmane
4/4
Heliod, the Warped Eclipse
Legendary Enchantment Creature — Phyrexian God
You may cast spells as though they had flash.
Spells you cast cost less to cast for each card your opponents have drawn this turn.
"Compleat the god, compleat the plane." —Ajani Goldmane
4/6
pastel agate
[[$kros defense]] [[kros defense]]
pastel agate
[[$hardened scales]] [[hardened scales]]
pastel agate
[[$ghostly prison]] [[ghostly prison]]
brave folioBOT
Enchantment
Creatures can't attack you unless their controller pays for each creature they control that's attacking you.
Though the spirits' bodies were ethereal, Agnur soon learned that their blades were quite solid—and razor-sharp.
pastel agate
Oh wow, that’s a maybe
I didn’t realize it had gone up so much
[[$propaganda]] is much more reasonable
brave folioBOT
amber pawn
ok added all those in
pastel agate
[[rishkar’s expertise]]
brave folioBOT
pastel agate
[[evolution witness]]
brave folioBOT
Creature — Elf Shaman Mutant
: Adapt 2. (If this creature has no +1/+1 counters on it, put two +1/+1 counters on it.)
Whenever one or more +1/+1 counters are put on Evolution Witness, return target permanent card from your graveyard to your hand.
She remembers every breakthrough, from the gene's mutation to the new life's propagation.
2/1
pastel agate
One of my favorite board wipes is [[tragic arrogance]], it’s certainly the most impactful
brave folioBOT
amber pawn
This seem good
So what is the goal of the deck then? Politicing for safety? And then try to use a wincon?
untold oxide
Wait tragic arrogance, you have to do that to yourself too right
Ive only ever played it in decks with no board presence so its neve rmattered before
pastel agate
Wait tragic arrogance, you have to do that to yourself too right
Yea, but you pick your stuff AND your opponent’s
So you keep all your best stuff and they keep their thopter token
amber pawn
Can you pick that as the artifact and creature both?
pastel agate
Yep
Notably, though, you do HAVE to pick something of each
So they do keep one of each thing if applicable
But people rarely have their eggs in that many baskets
amber pawn
So you can’t pick the same permanent for both things even if it has both types
pastel agate
Yes you can
But you have to pick each card type, even if it’s the same permanent
So for instance, if you want to kill a planeswalker they control, they’d have to have a second planeswalker for you to pick
Otherwise you have to pick that as something that stays
One neat trick I pulled was when someone was playing an auras deck, they had a mana dork with an aura attached and a creature that was stacked with a ton of them, so I let them keep the mana dork but keep the aura that was attached to the big creature
So that way, they sac the creature with the tons of auras and the aura attached to the mana dork is sacrificed
untold oxide
should approach of hte second sun be an auto include?
No
Approach is something you build around and not just a generically good card
An auto include imo is like [[smothering tithe]]
brave folioBOT
Enchantment
Whenever an opponent draws a card, that player may pay . If the player doesn't, you create a Treasure token. (It's an artifact with "
, Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any color.")
"I await your donation." —Dasha, Orzhov priest
amber pawn
ok. so the main deck does have wincons though?
untold oxide
Punch people with progressively larger creatures is pretty valid imo
Or you can play any of the cards that read when your deck is empty and you draw a card, you win
pastel agate
[[jace|WAR]] is my favorite
brave folioBOT
brave folioBOT
untold oxide
~I have done some more tweaking
not sure how im feeling about the list
If scheming fence doesnt work out ill source an on the trail to replace it
solemn hamlet
I should prob slot back in Managorger or Forgotten Ancient hmm
pastel agate
[[scheming fence]]
brave folioBOT
pastel agate
Oh, eh. Lemme know how it goes
pastel agate
I should prob slot back in Managorger or Forgotten Ancient hmm
I’d at least keep the ancient because he can turn bnuuy lethal
pastel agate
If scheming fence doesnt work out ill source an on the trail to replace it
Let me know how herald fares
untold oxide
Either it will be removed or I’ll win games off the back of it, that’s exactly how it went in Najeela haha
solemn hamlet
Maybe I'll just get rid of Stormdrake. Haven't even wanted to use it on anything yet
solemn hamlet
-Long River's Pull -Volatile Stormdrake -Orim's Chant +Dovin's Veto +Forgotten Ancient +Snakeskin Veil
https://www.archidekt.com/decks/8612729/ms_b_stirs_the_pot
Long River's is cute and in the Bloomburrow vibe but I'm missing out on Dovin's veto. The points made before about Stormdrake being a flying blocker given to someone did not go unwarranted, and most of the time it's not worth to cast (although it does steal a lot of commanders haha). Forgotten Ancient goes back in, and it's still in line with the aikido game plan. Orim's chant is just a fog 99 percent of the time. I have enough fogs, so I added an extra piece of protection.
amber pawn
So in all honesty. Is the precon pretty strong? Or is that more dependent on the player?
Compared to like Merfolk that stupid strong out of the box
pastel agate
So in all honesty. Is the precon pretty strong? Or is that more dependent on the...
It requires a little more thinking and capability in politics but it remains quite strong right out of the box. Gotta play as the cute bunny until you can lash out like the war criminal she actually is
amber pawn
Ah. Fair enough. Might sell my ulamog to get it
amber pawn
I’ve kinda been looking for something new. So maybe this’ll be what I need
Really need to scratch the combo itch though
pastel agate
She can play combos pretty well, just gotta make sure you’re playing at an appropriate power level
And combo decks typically aren’t terribly budget inherently
pastel agate
Question for y’all
Monarch/Initiative: thoughts?
My thinking is running [[court of garenbrig]]
brave folioBOT
pastel agate
Makes bnuuy lethal, like, immediately
untold oxide
I saw this last night in a pile of cards and thought huh we could probably use them
formal ruin
do you really want to be getting monarch when you want them to use resources against others?
fair tangle
[[dream halls]] plausible?
brave folioBOT
fair tangle
This applies to everyone btw
solemn hamlet
If you want monarch I think [[court of grace]] is a really nice option
brave folioBOT
brave folioBOT
untold oxide
[[dream halls]] plausible?
No
We are feeding people cards, we can’t also allow them to cast them for free
Unless we have some kind of stax piece to counter spells cast without paying mana that we can bounce during our own turn
So we’re playing bad cards to facilitate the use of dream halls, which adds a layer of inconsistency
fair tangle
[[vexing bauble]] ?
brave folioBOT
Artifact
Whenever a player casts a spell, if no mana was spent to cast it, counter that spell.
, , Sacrifice Vexing Bauble: Draw a card.
No one knew who invented it. No one knew its purpose. All anyone knew was they didn't like being anywhere near it.
untold oxide
Sure but we’d like to bounce it rather than sac it
As then we need another card that can consistently get it back when we need it to stop others
So again we’re jumping through hoops with many cards to facilitate one good card
solemn hamlet
[[Aluren]]
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
This is more doable
Since you can combo with it. But I'd only use it as a combo piece:/
pastel agate
do you really want to be getting monarch when you want them to use resources aga...
Yeah, that’s why I was on the fence about it. It would entice people to attack us, which is the same reasoning as to why I cut Coveted Jewel
formal ruin
the combo I mentioned yesterday is any 0 mana sac artifact or any sac artifact that refunds its cost, bumbleflower and evolution witness in play
[[lotus petal]] being the main one I guess
brave folioBOT
Artifact
, Sacrifice Lotus Petal: Add one mana of any color.
"Hard to imagine," mused Hanna, stroking the petal, "such a lovely flower inspiring such greed."
formal ruin
I think actually im going to put lotus petal in the deck im brewing
solemn hamlet
That's actually really goos
Good
You should run Kutzil or Grand Abolisher if you're gonna do that
formal ruin
kutzils already in the list
am I meant to have more than 2 dorkys
and 3 ramp sorceries
untold oxide
[[evolution witness]]
brave folioBOT
Creature — Elf Shaman Mutant
: Adapt 2. (If this creature has no +1/+1 counters on it, put two +1/+1 counters on it.)
Whenever one or more +1/+1 counters are put on Evolution Witness, return target permanent card from your graveyard to your hand.
She remembers every breakthrough, from the gene's mutation to the new life's propagation.
2/1
solemn hamlet
am I meant to have more than 2 dorkys
My curve is similar to yours but I still run a lot of ramp for simic bs
amber pawn
i think im very confused how this deck ends up winning
amber pawn
is it moslty counters and swinging with the bunny?
pastel agate
If you’re not doing combos, then yes that’s the primary plan
How you get there can be from multiple routes, and what you put the counters on can be different between decks
amber pawn
ah ok. sounds good
formal ruin
holy fuck I told people to get [[$caretakers talent]] 4 days ago and its massively up already
brave folioBOT
amber pawn
is that good in the deck?
formal ruin
well not really this one, but in general
mentioned it here at least
for lists that include [[smothering tithe]] effects.. it could really see play because this also draws you a card too lol
brave folioBOT
Enchantment
Whenever an opponent draws a card, that player may pay . If the player doesn't, you create a Treasure token. (It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any color.")
"I await your donation." —Dasha, Orzhov priest
formal ruin
its "tokens you control" not creature tokens
formal ruin
i didnt say it in this discord thats why, but its decent
considering how many cards in peoples lists have create tokens in them
let me count
its not that much, not I guess depending on the list, if it makes lots of funky tokens every now and then with clues, treasures, food, creatures, offspring effects, it could add up
daring ether
Not a fan of Monarch/Initiative here. Don’t like other people having control of when I give them cards and our mander doesn’t reset the initiative for free to abuse it.
solemn hamlet
I want to make room for something.
should I cut a cantrip, or one of my ramp? (I have 14 ramp)
Opt out for now
untold oxide
i got the crime green dude this evening and played it
what, the, fuck.
that card is way better than i gave it credit for
solemn hamlet
Do tell
untold oxide
dropped it turn 3 and never missed on a land for the rest of game and it never got removed
i was playing 2 lands a turn from turn 5 onwards and i won the game at like 16 lands
untold oxide
it even lived through 3 boardwipes
there was a farewell which I cast tefs protection in response to, I used selfless spirit and also a linvala later on.
It was a mad game
glossy fox
Ay yo, is it a sign???
[[Mistbreath elder]]
brave folioBOT
untold oxide
This is the paper list I’m playing currently
Seems to work pretty effectively:
Not sure on the silence effects anymore without having a combo to use them with so might cut those for some more counterspells
pastel agate
what, the, fuck.
YES FUCKING SIRRRRR
So uh
My list won against supposedly considered “hogh power decks” in its current state
I miiight have been pubstomping this whole time without realizing it
crystal quest
I've been putting Bumbleflower together over the last week or so and she had her first game today and I am HOOKED. This thread was super helpful
Here's the WIP list: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/6GoV_C8uz0q5NIEGd4fsAg
pastel agate
I've been putting Bumbleflower together over the last week or so and she had her...
HELL YEAH DUDE, THE BUNNY ARMY GROWS
Speaking of which, Bumbleflower took a game against a high power table, I had a ton of card draw and a good huge suite of removal. Smart plays lead me to winning the game against two combo decks, one including Nadu
Also, mockingbird is sick as FUCK
Whoever recommended that is so smart
pastel agate
What'd you copy with the bird
First game I copied faerie mastermind, second game I copied Ledger Shredder
untold oxide
Yeah ramp, it turns out, is essential.
The games I win it’s because I’ve ramped to the moon and I can just keep playing cards to draw more cards
I am not on mockingbird at the moment but I will be purchasing one. I read it again last night when I was going through my friends yuriko list and said yeah I’m dumb to not play that
rough dove
I miiight have been pubstomping this whole time without realizing it
This is why I keep saying, Bumbleflower with a good pilot and solid build can take a "meh" list from a 6-7 to a 7-8.
An optimized list with skilled pilot likely falls between 8.5-9.5 depending on the quality of counters
I still contend there's likely a full on tournament level CEDH build to be discovered, just nobody wants to push the bunny to that level.
pastel agate
Yeah, I don’t deny that bumbleflower could definitely be real good
rough dove
I've been creeping up in the lobbies that I join and currently have been hovering 8.5-9 with my build so far.
Still hovering around a 35% win rate, but a part of it definitely is player perception thinking I'm the weakest link at the table.
pastel agate
Yeah, I think cedh players will tune in on that is my problem
rough dove
There's that old saying about never getting into a land war in Asia.
A new saying I picked up from reddit about Bumbleflower...
"You never want to get stuck in a 1v1 with Bumbleflower, it's never a good time"
pastel agate
Oh that’s 100% true
rough dove
Yeah, I think cedh players will tune in on that is my problem
It heavily depends on the "local" meta at the time. Since CEDH is defined by a few early combos, there is a potential you'll be ignored in favor of the solitaire mindset.
pastel agate
One thing that’s absolutely elevated the hell out of my deck is knowing when to board wipe and what to board wipe with.
That’s fair
rough dove
One thing that’s absolutely elevated the hell out of my deck is knowing *when to...
[[ondu inversion]] + [[dawn's truce]] or other indestructible effect is chef's kiss
brave folioBOT
Sorcery
Destroy all nonland permanents.
"At first rumble you'd best hold on tight and pray to any gods you still hold dear." —Nys Dal, Sea Gate trapfinder
Ondu Skyruins
Land
Ondu Skyruins enters tapped.
: Add .
"It always seems so quiet in the aftermath of wrenching violence." —Nys Dal, Sea Gate trapfinder
pastel agate
A lot of times, if you run the right board wipes you don’t beed a heroic intervention effect.
I currently run Austere Command, Damning Verdict, Cyc Rift, Ezuri’s Predation, and Tragic Arrogance
formal ruin
@pastel agate me 🙂
pastel agate
Each and every one of those in the right setup or the right moment can be almost or completely one sided
pastel agate
<@180801337947193345> me 🙂
It was a good shout! Thanks homie
rough dove
It was a good shout! Thanks homie
You running proft's memory yet?
pastel agate
100%
rough dove
That enchantment is bonkers
pastel agate
It’s absolutely rocketed bumbleflower into lethal several times now
I was playing against a sheoldred pilot yesterday
They dropped a [[font of mythos]]
brave folioBOT
rough dove
LOL
pastel agate
In my upkeep, I solituded sheoldred and went to my turn
Drew like 8 cards in total and fucking wrecked that player
rough dove
My friend is bringing me an innkeeper's talent this weekend, which will be dope
Still debating on cutting branching evolutions for it, or making a cut elsewhere to bring my 1/1 counter synergies to 4.
formal ruin
I feel like its a better branching
the issue with branching is that its better if its 2 counters to start with
but most of the effects are only one, which is where hardened scales is better, but in this case if you have walkers, getting access to ward 1 for 3 mana is pretty good
rough dove
That's my sentiment as well. Branching provides no innate 1/1s and no protection.
BUT
4 more mana for the double counters, parity for the pseudo-evasion
formal ruin
branching needs hydras in the deck to shine
rough dove
What I like is that it churns 1/1s at a base for only 2 mana, so that's an extra nadu and fathom mage trigger for me.
pastel agate
I am off Innkeeper’s talent tbh
formal ruin
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/acjL0TjDNkiD7fT7Tc-D4g this is my list at the minute but I got no games in yet because still waiting on cards to show up
pastel agate
It’s just way too much mana to start doubling counters
rough dove
I am off Innkeeper’s talent tbh
You out here clowning with planewalkers xD of course you're off it
pastel agate
I mean, planeswalkers would love talent
rough dove
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/acjL0TjDNkiD7fT7Tc-D4g this is my list at the min...
I cut communal brewing, people got wise real quick not to take the card
pastel agate
[[communal brewing]]
brave folioBOT
rough dove
I obviously didn't read the card well enough xD
Eh, I'll toss it back in and see what it does.
pastel agate
What’s your list look like? I was under the impression you were going the cedh route
rough dove
What’s your list look like? I was under the impression you were going the cedh r...
Nah, I'm aiming 8-8.5.
formal ruin
I cut communal brewing, people got wise real quick not to take the card
are you talking about tempt with discovery?
pastel agate
Fair
rough dove
are you talking about tempt with discovery?
Yeah thats the one. Also I use Mind's Aglow. Only had that one pop once >.>
rough dove
What’s your list look like? I was under the impression you were going the cedh r...
I gotta edit this moxfield list, give me a bit. Gotta figure out whats different to what I'm running now xD
pastel agate
Yeah, tempt with discovery is actively a bad card imo
If people are smart they’ll never take it and you might as well run [[hour of promise]], and if they’re not smart you’re just fucking winning the game, because you’re so far ahead
brave folioBOT
formal ruin
is [[planar genesis]] a consideration?
brave folioBOT
pastel agate
I mean, we weren’t keen on growth spiral
That’s basically a better growth spiral
But, uh
I still think no
Every ramp piece in my list has been pretty carefully considered atp
formal ruin
im considering putting in nantucko for the meantime to copy one of my creatures
pastel agate
It could be good, the effect is kinda mana hungry though
untold oxide
I’m just making my curve lower by the day it seems
pastel agate
I’m just making my curve lower by the day it seems
I mean, that seems to he the best move tbh
amber pawn
Is the raccoon precon good compared to the bunny?
glossy fox
Is the raccoon precon good compared to the bunny?
Bello is great
Don't have it
But it's the one I'm.getting
amber pawn
It seemed interesting
daring ether
Yeah, tempt with discovery is actively a bad card imo
the one exception imo is when your deck really wants to find one specific land. i have a deck whose ramp package is a bunch of untap cards and lotus field, so I run this not caring if anybody else gets a land.
hot breach
If people are smart they’ll never take it and you might as well run [[hour of pr...
That or [[sowing mycospawn]]
brave folioBOT
Creature — Eldrazi Fungus
Devoid (This card has no color.)
Kicker 
(You may pay an additional as you cast this spell.)
When you cast this spell, search your library for a land card, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle.
When you cast this spell, if it was kicked, exile target land.
3/3
pastel agate
That or [[sowing mycospawn]]
True. That card gets another line of text every time I look at it
daring ether
Made more changes, cut the nadu
Put him back.
untold oxide
Put him back.
See I would but I’m not tutoring out the Nadu so most games I never see it. I’m slowly moving towards 1 and 2 MV cards while cutting higher costed stuff. I also feel like Nadu might be a bit strong for the games I’m playing bumbles
rough dove
See I would but I’m not tutoring out the Nadu so most games I never see it. I’m ...
The way I view Nadu in this deck is that the bird belongs here more than any other place. Because you're incentivized to only trigger twice per turn, it doesn't snowball nearly as bad as with the equipment. With Bumbleflower, it ends up just being another simic value engineer similar to Freestrider Lookout.
solemn hamlet
Acquired ledger shredder and trouble in pairs
solemn hamlet
Glorious.
pastel agate
We lost to them casting like three board wipes in a single turn to try and deal with me and eventually winning the interaction pile
hot breach
I bet sleepy didn’t know what they had in store with this thread
pastel agate
100% they did, it was intentionally made for collective brewing
solemn hamlet
Pretty much, it has been very effective for my deck building at the very least, and I love hearing the game reports and looking at other people's lists
It was just pointed out to me that Fathom Mage combos with full lvl Wizard Class
Also last night I decided to cut Hardened Scales. It really only pushed me towards the beatdown plan and I never wanted to play it early in my list. It drew a bit too much eyes. So I'm putting in [[stocking the pantry]] in place of it because it's a huge flavor win
brave folioBOT
Enchantment
Whenever you put one or more +1/+1 counters on a creature you control, put a supply counter on Stocking the Pantry.
, Remove a supply counter from Stocking the Pantry: Draw a card.
Sorting the seeds from the nuts —Squirrelfolk expression meaning "dwelling on unnecessary details"
untold oxide
Currently getting my ass beat to my own bunny
Did someone borrow your deck?
untold oxide
Pretty much, it has been very effective for my deck building at the very least, ...
I also love this.
pastel agate
Did someone borrow your deck?
Yeh
zenith zodiac
@rough dove i've been going through the thread and noted that you've seem to be doing well in high powered pods - do you mind sharing your list? I am hoping to play bumbleflower with some higher powered friends as well - thanks! (also open to other people's higher powered lists!)
pastel agate
Nadu, smothering tithe and consecrated sphinx need to be in a high power list
You guys do fast mana in your high power?
Because if so you can easily run the moxes and crypt for hitting your second spell as well
Free interaction is also peak in bunny
formal ruin
if there isnt any lightning greaves I think nadu is fine in mid power too
if anything, its a removal target that helps protect the key pieces
pastel agate
Not in bunny, in bunny it’s far too good
I think Freestrider is a fine lower power version to run since it’s only once per turn period with bunny, and only gets lands tapped
untold oxide
The way I view Nadu in this deck is that the bird belongs here more than any oth...
Been thinking about this. I don’t think this is true. You don’t need to stop casting spells unless you run out of mana and giving opponents cards is fine because we’re either effectively drawing cards or putting lands into play to fuel the next spell. So effectively if you have a low enough curve you can just cantrip through your deck as long as you can keep casting
I think Nadu is pretty strong here in theory and doesn’t really belong in a mid list
solemn hamlet
Thoughts on [[Borne upon a wind]]? Just a lukewarm enabler since we can't really win off it in low-mid power?
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
I'm considering [[final word phantasm]]
brave folioBOT
rough dove
Been thinking about this. I don’t think this is true. You don’t need to stop cas...
Running cantrips to make nadu work in the 99 definitely lowers the resilience of the deck to a point that it's likely either draw Nadu or you don't have enough fuel to close out the game.
On the flipside, using Nadu as a value piece without cantrips means you're extremely unlikely to have the play your whole deck out gameplay that Nadu is notorious for.
I use all the value engines to be able to reliably late game dig out Approach of the Second Sun and OTK with it. Freestrider only makes the combo very flimsy to assemble. Having Nadu gives that extra 2-3 cards drawn. Given that by turn 10, I'm averaging around 30-40 cards drawn in the game. Using deck thinning like fetch lands, scry/surveil lands, and Nadu/Freestrider that furthers the likelihood of drawing into Approach in any single game to around 45-50% depending on the sequencing. [[Thundertrap Trainer]] also is in my new newest build to further be able to dig for either Approach or a piece of removal that I'll need.
brave folioBOT
Creature — Otter Wizard
Offspring 
(You may pay an additional as you cast this spell. If you do, when this creature enters, create a 1/1 token copy of it.)
When this creature enters, look at the top four cards of your library. You may reveal a noncreature, nonland card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.
1/2
rough dove
Using soft deck manipulation like thundertrap and deck thinning on top of Bumbleflower can easily push the likelihood of seeing any particular card to about 50% VS the usual sub 18% most decks naturally see by turn 10 without additional draw.
Best part is, it's consistency without tutors, but with the added variance to make every game a puzzle to solve.
If you're in a pod that Tempt With Discovery gets full value, definitely use it to grab 3 fetch lands unless you have a play lined up. Use the fetches to grab surveil lands and cackle like a mad genius as you've effectively thinned your deck to a point that Bumbleflower starts woefully out value other decks.
pastel agate
I cut tempt with discovery, card sucks lol
rough dove
I cut tempt with discovery, card sucks lol
It indeed does lmao. But there's always a meme situation with most cards that turns them into something crazy.
pastel agate
It’s either people are tempted, which means they’re morons and you’re going to win anyway, or they don’t take it and you might as well have used another ramp spell
I am firmly in the “never ever be tempted” camp
If everyone else is tempted, I’ll do it too just to later point out when they inevitably win that they gave that person the game
untold oxide
Tempting people is exactly what it says on the tin. It’s bad to become tempted.
rough dove
I will never cut tempt with bunnies, its 80% the reason I play the deck is to have those words come out my mouth
untold oxide
Unless you are absolutely screwed on mana you never take that tempt
pastel agate
Even then don’t take it
untold oxide
And in that case, concede and build your deck better.
pastel agate
Or mull better
untold oxide
Every single time everyone took the tempt I’ve won the game when I’ve played those kinda spells
They don’t realise how far ahead it thrusts you
pastel agate
Tempt with bunnies is honestly a lot more tame
pastel agate
Yeah, it’s just fine
untold oxide
Fun? Sure. Playable, nah I’m good.
I do kinda hate how I’m optimising the fun out of bunny over time though
rough dove
I do kinda hate how I’m optimising the fun out of bunny over time though
I'm sitting here like "lys doesn't like Nadu, but literally hates on the midpowered fun of the deck" xD
untold oxide
The curve is getting flattened and now I’m looking at Nezahal and shark like it might be time for them to cross that rainbow bridge
Nadu would be going back in tbf
And id just play more tutors
rough dove
Man, Nez is so cool. I wish it was just like 1-2 mana cheaper.
pastel agate
The curve is getting flattened and now I’m looking at Nezahal and shark like it ...
It just sounds like you’re venturing more and more away from control and more towards a storm route
rough dove
It just sounds like you’re venturing more and more away from control and more to...
Yes and no, I tested a super low control route before and it does still do the control do. Just more spells per turn lol.
pastel agate
For my control list I don’t mind my costs being higher because I run a lot of ramp and draw to run away with the game and use those big creatures as finishers
I like the higher impact individual cards is all
rough dove
I've settled more on midranged cards. [[ojer kaslem, deepest growth]] is a good example
brave folioBOT
Legendary Creature — God
Trample
Whenever Ojer Kaslem deals combat damage to a player, reveal that many cards from the top of your library. You may put a creature card and/or a land card from among them onto the battlefield. Put the rest on the bottom in a random order.
When Ojer Kaslem dies, return it to the battlefield tapped and transformed under its owner's control.
6/5
Temple of Cultivation
Land
(Transforms from Ojer Kaslem, Deepest Growth.)
: Add .
, : Transform Temple of Cultivation. Activate only if you control ten or more permanents and only as a sorcery.
Chimil gave the Oltec sacred lands. Ojer Kaslem brought them to life.
rough dove
I turn the snowball into an avalanche
untold oxide
I’m running like 15-16 pieces of “ramp” and I think it just isn’t enough
I’m tempted to play stuff like chrome mox and mox amber.
Probs not mox opal though because I don’t think I play enough artifacts to reliably get metal craft
pastel agate
Could start running higher impact ramp spells like [[open the way]] or go the bloom tender route
brave folioBOT
rough dove
I think I'm actually going to start using that
I got to tempt with discovery with my pod once and they said never again, so its the play xD
15 mana turn 8, perch protection + ondu inversion, gift the eldrazi player an extra turn with several annihilators while having the approach otk assembled...
By far one of the worst war crimes I've commited as bumbleflower
pastel agate
I’ve casted nexus of fate three times in a row before
brave folioBOT
Artifact
: Put a coin counter on Wishing Well. When you do, you may cast target instant or sorcery card with mana value equal to the number of coin counters on Wishing Well from your graveyard without paying its mana cost. If that spell would be put into your graveyard, exile it instead. Activate only as a sorcery.
rough dove
This is a card I've been thinking about using for some recursion.
[[ojer pakpatiq, deepest epoch]]
brave folioBOT
Legendary Creature — God
Flying
Whenever you cast an instant spell from your hand, it gains rebound. (Exile it as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast it from exile without paying its mana cost.)
When Ojer Pakpatiq dies, return it to the battlefield tapped and transformed under its owner's control with three time counters on it.
4/3
Temple of Cyclical Time
Land
(Transforms from Ojer Pakpatiq, Deepest Epoch.)
: Add . Remove a time counter from Temple of Cyclical Time.
, : Transform Temple of Cyclical Time. Activate only if it has no time counters on it and only as a sorcery.
Chimil gave the Oltec time. Ojer Pakpatiq gave them the tools to learn its lessons.
rough dove
Another one I've been debating on for more recursion / pseudo ramp
untold oxide
Yeah nexus of fate is fun
I cast it twice in a game the other day and people just said yeah you’re good.
rough dove
[[tanazir quandrix]] seems like another good midrange wincon
brave folioBOT
untold oxide
That is a crazy suggestion tbh. I haven’t seen quandrix since strix
Has a nice alt art too
rough dove
Most definitely.
It's a weird one I saw the other day when looking through my cards and I was like "huh, this really lines up with bumbleflower"
I'm falling out of love with Approach and I'm thinking I'm going to move towards more of a big value deck for wins instead of instant wincons.
[[void slime]] is also super nice for countering triggers
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
Voidslime kinda nice tho 👀
I was thinking of trying Bant Charm but may run that instead
sturdy tiger
I'm personally running her as a +1 Counters deck. Had a counters deck a few years ago, took it apart and when she came out I decided to rebuild it but without black this time. It's super fun
pastel agate
[[tanazir quandrix]] seems like another good midrange wincon
My problem with it is that I’d rather run [[jolrael mwonvuli recluse]] to flatten the curve
brave folioBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Druid
Whenever you draw your second card each turn, create a 2/2 green Cat creature token.
: Until end of turn, creatures you control have base power and toughness X/X, where X is the number of cards in your hand.
"Humans bring nothing but suffering and deceit. They are not welcome in my forest."
1/2
pastel agate
I'm personally running her as a +1 Counters deck. Had a counters deck a few year...
Got a list? I was considering making another bumbleflower deck focused on counters
sturdy tiger
Yup I have it on Archidekt but I've been swapping stuff around here and there cause I'm in my foiling phase
pastel agate
Based
sturdy tiger
I can dm it to you if you'd like
pastel agate
Feel free to post it here!
sturdy tiger
pastel agate
No [[arwen weaver]]?
brave folioBOT
sturdy tiger
I probably should play that instead of Master Biomancer but we'll see
pastel agate
I’d run both tbh
sturdy tiger
Eh I don't get out the Master enough to warrant playing both
pastel agate
Have you considered [[grateful apparition]]?
brave folioBOT
sturdy tiger
I used to run that and the Bird but I cut them to make space for other cards
pastel agate
I do love that whiskervale is getting used
Nadu being in a casual deck is blech though
sturdy tiger
I saw an opportunity and I took it
cursive egret
anyone used or thought about [[ripples of potential]], especially whomever I'm sorry I can't remember who has the more planeswalker-y version?
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
We talked about it a bit. It's neat
pastel agate
It’s a really good card
cursive egret
Snagged one from my buddy this evening, definitely going to try it out. Need a bit of a run at my list tomorrow so I'll post it for interest prior to fnm.
Playing at my friend's tonight I (and the other 2) got graveyard combo'd out one game and I was at the wrong end of a Pariah'ed Stuffy Doll in the other... I at least know I'm not playing enough interaction 😁
untold oxide
ill be playing more bumbleflower this evening
so ill let you know how my changes fare
solemn hamlet
👍
cursive egret
damn, this is hard lol. So many possible directions. I'm looking at a little infect package here too - Norn's Decree / Bloodroot Apothecary / Prologue to Phyresis / Infectious Bite to get started then Dreamtide Whale / Evolution Sage / Flux Channeler
amber pawn
Suggestion if it’s not already made. Maybe make a $20, $40, $60, etc upgrade guide for the precon based on what everyone has seen
I know a lot of people getting into the game looking for a new deck type would appreciate something like that. Personally I enjoy that kind of guide because it makes my card hunting and shopping easier. And i don’t have as much brewing time as I’d like
cursive egret
Here's where I'm at now https://www.moxfield.com/decks/sRk5w9qfc0m2Lk7ZfxgHQQ
daring ether
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/7F_c5XEua0qlZqy99_ovnw
I want to do the 10 upgrades for under 50 dollars thing, here's the 10 upgrades I'm thinking
untold oxide
Dreamtide whale is actually crazy
Like probably the craziest card I’ve added so far
solemn hamlet
The biggest I've gotten my whale was an 18/16 double striking with Duelist's Heritage
Truly glorious
pastel agate
For me it was proliferating planeswalkers
It is insane at proliferating walkers
pastel agate
Bunny brewers!! What do we think of [[elminster]]?
brave folioBOT
Legendary Planeswalker — Elminster
Whenever you scry, the next instant or sorcery spell you cast this turn costs 
less to cast, where X is the number of cards looked at while scrying this way.
+2: Draw a card, then scry 2.
−3: Exile the top card of your library. Create a number of 1/1 blue Faerie Dragon creature tokens with flying equal to that card's mana value.
Elminster can be your commander.
Loyalty: 5
pastel agate
Basically another biiiig draw engine
pastel agate
We are, uh…
Very passionate about the bunny
And, I won’t lie, I’m gonna praise sleepy for coming up with the idea
It’s been a truly awesome experience
I need to start writing up my games more because I’ve started getting lazy
glossy fox
Has anyone looked at [[teferis ageless insight]]
brave folioBOT
glossy fox
It s'more cards
pastel agate
It’s also a win more card
I mean, I highly recommend giving it a try if you’re wanting to prove to the class
But personally I’m not convinced
sturdy tiger
I'd rather play cards that benefit from your opponents drawing cause that's what's happening a majority of the time
glossy fox
Well it's going into my nezehal deck I've been brewing
I even got the fancy version
pastel agate
I'd rather play cards that benefit from your opponents drawing cause that's what...
Plus it’s way more fun to benefit from your opponents trying to find an answer for you
“Oh, you drew your second card looking for a board wipe for me? Draw 4, counterspell?”
sturdy tiger
Psychic Possession, Smothering Tithe, Consecrated Sphinx, Faerie Mastermind, Heliod the Radiant Dawn, or if you wanna just stop them from drawing all together, Narset
glossy fox
I believe ageless insight would trigger off of someone casting a noncrrature spell on their turn
pastel agate
Smothering tithe is another one I don’t run out of principle lmao
pastel agate
I believe ageless insight would trigger off of someone casting a noncrrature spe...
Correct
glossy fox
It's crazy in nezehal
sturdy tiger
I miss my old Nezahal deck, good times
glossy fox
[[Vensers journal]] too, but I'm using my only copy in [[imskir]]
brave folioBOT
Legendary Creature — Demon
Affinity for artifacts (This spell costs less to cast for each artifact you control.)
When Imskir Iron-Eater enters, you draw X cards and you lose X life, where X is half the number of artifacts you control, rounded down.
, Sacrifice an artifact: Imskir deals damage equal to the sacrificed artifact's mana value to any target.
5/5
brave folioBOT
Artifact
Whenever another nontoken artifact you control enters, you may pay . If you do, create a token that's a copy of that artifact.
The faces of Geth's corpse-dredgers are disturbingly similar.
glossy fox
That's was around 24 life per upkeep
rough dove
I mean, I highly recommend giving it a try if you’re wanting to prove to the cla...
Chiming in, I've run it in every build since I got the deck. Definitely puts in work.
Has worked as a smokescreen to eat enchantment removal as well to save Innkeeper's Talent/Branching Evolutions
pastel agate
Hmm
rough dove
[[jin-gitaxis, progress tyrant]] I'm going to cut Approach for this lovely fella
brave folioBOT
rough dove
I got traded bloomburrow mythics to tone my Loot deck down (had 10 praetors in it lol). So, as a compromise my group is letting me spread the praetors around
pastel agate
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/B8zzpDQtNkGBPXpSWrXH8w
What would you cut here for insight?
rough dove
For Jin?
pastel agate
Nah, for teferi’s insight