#Umaru’s Decklist Thread
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Thoughts?
cold chasm
Ya combat Derevi is a good way to do that, you would want a Herald or Plat effect or Agrace onna win turn so you dont shoot yourself in the face. Definitely doable in b3. Look at effects like Ainok Strike Leader for triggers, Delney as a multiplier, Toski and Enduring Curiosity for draw power, Voice still goes in because of the mobilize
misty geyser
I like Delney for that for sure
cold chasm
Easy to draft a go wide derevi list that wins on Moonshaker or Craterhoof effects
misty geyser
Toski and enduring are extra good for flash + indest
I used to have a go wide derevi, but I'm more of a fan of nontoken aggro
Go medium, if you will
Running shenangians like [[overlord of the floodpits]] for value
grand hingeBOT
Enchantment Creature — Avatar Horror
Impending 4—
(If you cast this spell for its impending cost, it enters with four time counters and isn't a creature until the last is removed. At the beginning of your end step, remove a time counter from it.)
Flying
Whenever this permanent enters or attacks, draw two cards, then discard a card.
5/3
cold chasm
If you want the potential of an infinite Orrery w Clone, you could do Spark Double to have double derevis or double delneys. I like the idea of Kona, ojer kaslem, etc in the strategy of "go medium".
Quilled Greatwurm if you want to be funny and smack size into your board by smacking it out of opponents
misty geyser
Oh yeah, quilly g always goes hard
Kaslem would be fun for sure. 5mv would likely be the "sweet spot" in terms of big bodies with powerful effects
I wonder if I should add in a cheeky bumbleflower lmao
cold chasm
Be like oh god not this bitch again 🤣
frail flare
I've definitely seen Derevi birds
cold chasm
You actually get a solid reason to run Ishai, Faeburrow Elder, etc.
cold chasm
I've definitely seen Derevi birds
Gotta reach terminal bird velocity
misty geyser
See I wanted to avoid just doing a typal deck
cold chasm
Dont forget land enchantments go hard in Derevi because you get to do the untappies
misty geyser
Right, I also thought about [[empowered autogenerator]]
grand hingeBOT
Artifact
This artifact enters tapped.
: Put a charge counter on this artifact. Add X mana of any one color, where X is the number of charge counters on this artifact.
Magic, unlike physics, has no unbreakable laws.
cold chasm
Honestly the only birds id co nsider are BoP, Maybe Wan Shi Tong (iffy below b5 because ppl dont search super often but if you get to dump 40 combat mana from lands and stuff and draw 20 that might also be hot af), Mockingbird if you want another clone, and Ishai (for b3 lists)
Birds are very go wide not go medium/tall
Archetype of Imagination and Reconnisaince lol
cold chasm
I havent messed with thr 5 drop yet tbh
If you run GY shenanigans you could run Ledger Shredder
misty geyser
I run ledger shredder anyway
cold chasm
If you run a lot of fliers Jubilant Skybonder gets pretty good
misty geyser
It's a great body with free card selection
cold chasm
Fair 🤣
Honestly its a card I need to put in Muldrotha lol
Willbreaker would be disgusting in b3 derevi
frail flare
To be clear "birds" here is relative
There are just jokes about it being a bird deck because of how many of the main threats are
cold chasm
True Conviction seems like a banger w Natures Will if you have flash speed
cold chasm
There are just jokes about it being a bird deck because of how many of the main ...
Thats fair. I always joke about reaching terminal bird velocity and my derevis a cedh deck
Ya @misty geyser thats my initial thoughts tho lol
frail flare
[[willbreaker]]
grand hingeBOT
cold chasm
I already mentioned that lol
frail flare
No, I couldn't remember it
cold chasm
Oh xd
misty geyser
ooh - [[firemane commando]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
love this card
Okay - favorite instant speed stuff, go
I wanna add in stuff to take advantage of being able to pass with a bunch of mana up
Oh! Nexus of fate, yet again
HEhehehehehe
cold chasm
That and VFC or High Fae. Alchemists Refuge isnt terrible in b3
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Avatar Ally
Flash
Flying
When Aang enters, airbend up to one other target creature or spell. (Exile it. While it's exiled, its owner may cast it for 
rather than its mana cost.)
Waterbend 
: Transform Aang.
2/3
Aang and La, Ocean's Fury
Legendary Creature — Avatar Spirit Ally
Reach, trample
Whenever Aang and La attack, put a +1/+1 counter on each tapped creature you control.
With the death of the moon spirit, the Avatar's tides of vengeance crashed over the Fire Nation fleet.
5/5
cold chasm
Hf Trick and Alch Refuge let you do whatever at flash tho 🤣.
cold chasm
No value Emiel for a mana sink?
misty geyser
I don't see how that's value, and I also don't want infinite combos
cold chasm
Just for blinking etbs.
misty geyser
I want to add a [[Grozoth]] pile to Susan Foreman
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Leviathan
Defender (This creature can't attack.)
When this creature enters, you may search your library for any number of cards that have mana value 9, reveal them, put them into your hand, then shuffle.
: This creature loses defender until end of turn.
Transmute (, Discard this card: Search your library for a card with the same mana value as this card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle. Transmute only as a sorcery.)
9/9
misty geyser
https://moxfield.com/decks/KCGM0TG9xEaaOMao9EjulQ
added a couple already but ideas for more are welcome
Oh ding dang it’s void winnower time
Hell yes
@eternal perch how’s this (+ henge) for a grozoth goodstuff pile?
eternal perch
You have ways to cheat them into play at all?
eternal perch
Lots of mana generation?
misty geyser
Yup
eternal perch
The hardest line to tow when building mine was having cards that I wanted to cast, but didnt clutter my hand so much I skipped what I did to set the play up
misty geyser
It probably won’t even be good but by god I just love grozoth
eternal perch
Grozoth is a hell of a guy, for sure
misty geyser
In this deck, he gets at least one of everything I’d need: targeted removal, card draw, a way to push damage, a way to slow the game down, and a board wipe
Even a way to ramp if someone’s got a lot of rocks or smth
misty geyser
@ornate heron thoughts?
ornate heron
@misty geyser we can continue in here since other channel has another convo going
ornate heron
But yeah, bretagard tends to swing me 30 life or more, just from keeping 2 blockers and the lifelink
30 is frankly the minimum, since the creatures tend to have 15 total power at least and can block much more than that over the other 3 player's turns
ornate heron
Yeah I would agree tbh
Hurts you just as much as them, the deck likes wraths far more than farewells
misty geyser
Any other thoughts? I feel like I might need more draw
Topdeck city is good in this deck but I never like being jazz hands
ornate heron
Could add horizon of progress for sure
Other card advantage pieces...
Most of the lands are colorless that I use sadly, benefits of Susan lol
Oh ffs I was just going to suggest swapping wondrous crucible but that goes SO much harder with stax pieces
"Ok you have to pay 2 extra to even target them, then if you didn't remove crucible first it might just come right back"
misty geyser
Oh I need a replacement for archon
misty geyser
Most of the lands are colorless that I use sadly, benefits of Susan lol
Yeah needing both colors t2 is rough. Though it only bricks a couple more starting hands than susan can handle
ornate heron
Garruks Uprising probably for draw
misty geyser
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
ornate heron
Yeah needing both colors t2 is rough. Though it only bricks a couple more starti...
Yeah, part of why I liked radha is because she could get out of 2 land hands with the instant speed big score effects or the such, often made up for the slightly more brickey mana base
Though now having more utility lands goes hard
misty geyser
The real issue is just getting them out t2, once you land that you can easily land a veggie and go off
Color fixing is ez when you get the two basics you need
ornate heron
Yeah, susan smoothing that completely goes hard but its not a big issue in the 2 color decks
misty geyser
Just running more nonbasics solves that
ornate heron
Yup
misty geyser
Like ashling doesn't care about basics
Katilda only kind of does, 3c susan decks absolutely do need them though
for the fixing
ornate heron
Yup, and the more cascade/discover you run the more you start needing a mana base with extra basics so you don't run out
Its made Susan's mana base a really fun challenge genuinely
ornate heron
Oh I need a replacement for archon
So uh, found some more removal and cost reduction for ya lol
misty geyser
i saw ravenous, I just wasn't sure about it
hamza is funny but idk how effective
helps with storming off for sure
This is where I'm at in my scryfall mining
I have been looking at all selesnya cards from the top mv down
ornate heron
hamza is funny but idk how effective
Pay 6 mana, make him cost 2 mana, make everything else thereafter get reduced by "Yes"
ornate heron
You literally just pay 2 more mana than you normally would for him with your commander and then he is absolutely stacked for the rest of the game
ornate heron
what do i take out
Let me see
Eternal wanderer maybe, flicker is cool but its practically a do-nothing card on its own and flicker hurts your counter setup if you do any with the mander so its not all good
misty geyser
I was thinking more for the board wipe
Then it just kinda blanks a creature every turn
It also doesn't bring it back until their next end step
but I can see that
ornate heron
Kyoshi maybe
misty geyser
I took out wanderer already, I think you've got a point
Ravenous is a no go because it's damage divided
I'm not making tokens so devour is bad
ornate heron
I have had great results with ravenous Tyrannosaurus, even if I only get a single swing off
And thats single target, not nuke half of my opponents boards
misty geyser
[[ravenous tyrannosaurus]]
grand hingeBOT
ornate heron
I know, I am using him as a comparison
You would be surprised how much you can find to sac in mid-late game among any given boardstate
ornate heron
Its not ETB on ravenous
misty geyser
Oh right
Still, attacks is repeatable
Not to mention it doesn't kill itself after it deals its damage
ornate heron
I have had great results with ravenous Tyrannosaurus, even if I only get a singl...
^
Oh shit I forget those abilities don't have SBA checked in between
Still likely worthwhile for removal as he can survive on 1 toughness pretty easily
Mainly think its worthwhile because even if you sac say 2 creatures you can kill 2 4/4s or a ton of fodder and still have him survive to swing
I also should point out I might be overestimating the amount of creatures you are getting onto the board though
misty geyser
That's what I was thinking
misty geyser
Okay I’ve had a revelation today
I’m looking at Jund today
And I realized that Salubrious snail’s deck on Malfegor, by its description is 100% the kind of deck I would wanna make for Jund
And it has a lot of discard
I think I counted 20 pieces, repeatable or not
Hmmm. I’m also considering changing back to Coram if I wanna play with that idea
hasty portal
I'm glad you found a new inspiration! 😄
misty geyser
33 removal spells
weak raven
Wait shit why am I not active here
misty geyser
Wait shit why am I not active here
Thoughts on the deck?
I think I was being too careful to play nice but I’m thinking I shouldn’t care about that if I wanna build the deck proper
frail flare
Green would add ramp and protection. But yeah
weak raven
Thoughts on the deck?
I'm liking what I'm seeing, but I'm not really seeing the engine.
misty geyser
Green would add ramp and protection. But yeah
I'm not sure I would even need ramp so much as shutting down my opponents first and foremost
misty geyser
I'm liking what I'm seeing, but I'm not really seeing the engine.
Coram is the main engine, you drop some creatures that help you grind or help empty my opponent's hands
Coram provides card advantage and a beater in the cz
frail flare
I'm not sure I would even need ramp so much as shutting down my opponents first ...
Yep
misty geyser
I'm half tempted to remove all the ramp from the deck
And just run cheap valuable creatures
I keep seeing cards like [[scrawling crawler]] in discard decks. Is it because they usually make them discard on my turn?
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
I guess that would actuall make good sense
ornate heron
I keep seeing cards like [[scrawling crawler]] in discard decks. Is it because t...
That and usually you are trying to make players hellbent, so punishing players who are getting out of that state can help with killing them before they can use the resources to overcome you
misty geyser
True true
Especially with crawler, because they draw on my upkeep when I can fully control what they get
Okay, I like it
I wonder if I should even touch monarch
I have one piece in there
weak raven
I feel like this deck warrants a [[Waste not]]
grand hingeBOT
Enchantment
Whenever an opponent discards a creature card, create a 2/2 black Zombie creature token.
Whenever an opponent discards a land card, add 
.
Whenever an opponent discards a noncreature, nonland card, draw a card.
ornate heron
Its a bit powerful for discard decks tbh, I would be careful with it
You probably just win the game if opponents don't top deck removal when it comes down
misty geyser
Yeah I wouldn't run it
misty geyser
Is [[court of garenbrig]] something or is it just too winomre here
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
I love the monarch so i'm obviously shoving into too much stuff lol
sick locust
I love the monarch so i'm obviously shoving into too much stuff lol
no such thing as too much monarch
misty geyser
no such thing as too much monarch
In a discard focused midrange deck I would think there could be
i'm also thinking about [[overlord of the balemurk
[[overlord bale]]
grand hingeBOT
Enchantment Creature — Avatar Horror
Impending 5— (If you cast this spell for its impending cost, it enters with five time counters and isn't a creature until the last is removed. At the beginning of your end step, remove a time counter from it.)
Whenever this permanent enters or attacks, mill four cards, then you may return a non-Avatar creature card or a planeswalker card from your graveyard to your hand.
5/5
ornate heron
In a discard focused midrange deck I would think there could be
as long as you can keep hold of it you would be fine, but I doubt you will be keeping enough blockers
misty geyser
@dense wadi, any thoughts? You're the discard master, so I'm sure you might have some insights
ornate heron
you need a solid number of efficient things to swing repeatedly, probably will be fine without garenbrig while the monarch getting into the hands of others will hurt your own attempts to get them hellbent
sick locust
[[overlord bale]]
im calling this the Bale lord from now on
ornate heron
that said, it IS on their end step so you get a chance to take it away from them first
frail flare
Is [[winter, misanthropic]] just too much in general for this deck?
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Warlock
Ward
At the beginning of your upkeep, each player draws two cards.
Delirium — As long as there are four or more card types among cards in your graveyard, each opponent's maximum hand size is equal to seven minus the number of those card types.
3/4
frail flare
Because he definitely provides a way to cap what your opponents are able to hold, even if you're not building around delirium
But I also know a lot of people feel he's just too mean for what they want.
hushed tapir
And I realized that Salubrious snail’s deck on Malfegor, by its description is 1...
OMG it totally is
misty geyser
Is [[winter, misanthropic]] just too much in general for this deck?
I think I wouldn’t wanna just give them free cards but it’s not a bad idea
I was thinking Coram is better on the grind
frail flare
I'm not talking about Winter in the command zone, I'm wondering about him in the 99
frail flare
I have too many decks related to discard
hushed tapir
I thought about it but delirium isn’t consistent here
would it not be? you've got a decent spread of card types, plus mill and discard
misty geyser
Hm
frail flare
[[bitter triumph]] over terminate maybe
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Like I’m cool with scrawler because it only gives one card which is much easier to get rid of right away than winter would be
frail flare
[[path of the pyromancer]] can give you a big burst of mana and cards
grand hingeBOT
Sorcery
Discard all the cards in your hand. Add 
for each card discarded this way, then draw that many cards plus one.
Will of the Planeswalkers — Starting with you, each player votes for planeswalk or chaos. If planeswalk gets more votes, planeswalk. If chaos gets more votes or the vote is tied, chaos ensues.
frail flare
[[darkstar augur]] feels like a dangerous card here
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Bat Warlock
Offspring (You may pay an additional as you cast this spell. If you do, when this creature enters, create a 1/1 token copy of it.)
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, reveal the top card of your library and put that card into your hand. You lose life equal to its mana value.
2/3
frail flare
Just because your average mv is 3.4 without lands
misty geyser
Without lands is not a consideration tbh
Bob effects absolutely care about the with-lands value
frail flare
You're still over 2, but it's your call on that
misty geyser
That's fine
dense wadi
<@282385029387124736>, any thoughts? You're the discard master, so I'm sure you ...
About the deck or about Balemurk? What’s the main thing in question?
misty geyser
About the deck or about Balemurk? What’s the main thing in question?
Both
dense wadi
Both
Work just started but if it gets slow and it likely will I’ll take a look. Otherwise maybe not until lunch or post work
misty geyser
Work just started but if it gets slow and it likely will I’ll take a look. Other...
Okay, no rush!
frail flare
[[dawnhand dissident]] could be interesting in this deck
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Elf Warlock
, Blight 1: Surveil 1.
, Blight 2: Exile target card from a graveyard.
During your turn, you may cast creature spells from among cards you own exiled with this creature by removing three counters from among creatures you control in addition to paying their other costs.
1/2
misty geyser
I like it, I just don’t have the counters needed to offset the blighting
I wouldn’t wanna just sacrifice my stuff to do something [[emperor of bones]] could do too
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Skeleton Noble
At the beginning of combat on your turn, exile up to one target card from a graveyard.
: Adapt 2.
Whenever one or more +1/+1 counters are put on this creature, put a creature card exiled with this creature onto the battlefield under your control with a finality counter on it. It gains haste. Sacrifice it at the beginning of the next end step.
2/2
frail flare
It can remove finality counters from bones creatures
misty geyser
… how did I not read the “remove three counters” part of this
What is wrong with me
frail flare
Adapt 2 with bones, reanimate, remove the 2 counters and the finality counter
Can now adapt again
frail flare
Yep
frail flare
It's my husband playing Tayam's fault, in the same way you start watching for "a graveyard" if you play reanimator you start watching for "counters"
misty geyser
She also synergizes with Coram
And he has a high toughness that could hold a couple counters for a bit
I’m wondering it Inti is just cute here
Like it’s good aggression and a great engine
frail flare
Replacing inti with it does make some sense. Inti gives trample but it can stick things in exile
misty geyser
I also wonder what I can do to cut the curve down from the 3 drops
Maybe detective’s phoenix
Kinda fits one or two roles while dissident fits two or three
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
He’s great once the beatdown starts
Ooh I do like vial smasher
I like him as a cheap copy of Lord of Pain
Bonus points, I have a reason to run my ox of agonas artist proof
frail flare
I just don't think this deck wants to cast anything from exile. Exiling cards from your graveyard makes sense.
misty geyser
True
Casting from exile is just for the extra value, like I don’t care if any particular piece is lost once I’ve got the ball rolling
Plus, florian does only exile the thing I want
Inti, on the other hand, could be rough
ornate heron
I wouldn’t wanna just sacrifice my stuff to do something [[emperor of bones]] co...
Shouldn't need too anyway even if you never get outside counter help, so long as you have a 3 toughness creature on board you can bring something back
misty geyser
Yeah, I realized that later
ornate heron
And if you are playing scrappy fights you should definitely peek at creatures that churn out consistent value in the form of more aggro. Personally got great results with stuff like [[agitator ant]] and [[dragonmaster outcast]]
ornate heron
Haven't had a chance to peek at the list though
misty geyser
I’d rec doing so! It’s a pretty loose list rn so up for good suggestions
I’m trying to carve my curve down some
I like outcast, and I have always LOVED agitator ant
That is definitely one I’d wanna run
I’m wondering if Syr Konrad is just fine here?
Like it’s a mana sink if we’re all in topdeck mode
Which is the ideal state
ornate heron
Just skimmed through the creatures and yeah these would both fit well to lower curve a little further and churn out threats
misty geyser
What to cut though
ornate heron
I’m wondering if Syr Konrad is just fine here?
Should be solid, especially with the mander pulling creatures back out of grave retriggering him
misty geyser
That’s a really good point
frail flare
Syr Konrad being damage instead of lifeloss is also underappreciated
ornate heron
Speed demon kinda feels bad at 5 mana,
misty geyser
Syr Konrad being damage instead of lifeloss is also underappreciated
I survived with my current jund list with him by having [[whip of erebos]] out
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Enchantment Artifact
Creatures you control have lifelink.
, : Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield. It gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step. If it would leave the battlefield, exile it instead of putting it anywhere else. Activate only as a sorcery.
ornate heron
Maybe cut a couple of your impulse draw pieces like the 2 drop that you only get 1 of the cards. You seem to have more than enough draw power
And those don't let you get it into the grave if you can't play the card
Especially with mill just being draw power for you
ornate heron
What to cut though
So I would recommend cutting those I mentioned (speed demon + some of the impulse draw pieces) but past that the list looks strong
Also holy hell 3 basics is beyond greedy, smh
misty geyser
Also ***holy hell*** 3 basics is beyond greedy, smh
What nonbasic hate in the meta does to a mf
misty geyser
So I would recommend cutting those I mentioned (speed demon + some of the impuls...
Cool, thanks! I’ll get ‘em in soon
ornate heron
What nonbasic hate in the meta does to a mf
There isn't even any in my local meta, just wary of it and I have a half dozen 3 color decks none of which have any need for less than 15 basics
misty geyser
This deck is very pip hungry
Like after testing i was finding need to add city of brass and mana confluence
frail flare
My currently played jund deck only has 7 basics but mine's a delirum deck
ornate heron
I mean you could cut some for filter lands and get much better color fixing from them
They are really good for color hungry decks
misty geyser
You think [[tevesh szat doom of fools]] could be replaced with something better?
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
I think it could be a more impactful card yeah
misty geyser
Like maybe [[splinterfright]] or something
Is there a spot for E-Wit or is that just too okay
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
[[archon of cruelty]] or [[noxious gearhulk]] maybe
misty geyser
Hm
frail flare
There's also just [[tarmogoyf nest]]
grand hingeBOT
Kindred Enchantment — Lhurgoyf Aura
Enchant land
Enchanted land has "
, : Create a Tarmogoyf token." (It's a Lhurgoyf creature with "Tarmogoyf's power is equal to the number of card types among cards in all graveyards and its toughness is equal to that number plus 1.")
misty geyser
I do think raven’s crime is very funny here
frail flare
It has a very funny name for one thing. [[dakmore salvage]] might be worth it for a recurrable land
grand hingeBOT
Land
This land enters tapped.
: Add .
Dredge 2 (If you would draw a card, you may mill two cards instead. If you do, return this card from your graveyard to your hand.)
misty geyser
Hmm maybe, especially with my commander turning dredge into “impulse draw”
ornate heron
Hmm maybe, especially with my commander turning dredge into “impulse draw”
You also have so much discard you can put dredge cards right back into the grave
So any that help your gameplan would be good
misty geyser
Right, I thought about that
I was wondering what useful ones there are
Like, maybe [[golgari grave troll]] but these cards only work super well with my commander out
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Troll Skeleton
This creature enters with a +1/+1 counter on it for each creature card in your graveyard.
, Remove a +1/+1 counter from this creature: Regenerate this creature.
Dredge 6 (If you would draw a card, you may mill six cards instead. If you do, return this card from your graveyard to your hand.)
0/0
frail flare
Grave troll, [[golgari thug]] [[stinkeweed imp]] [[life from the loam]]
frail flare
Are the major ones
misty geyser
I have LftL
I don't think stinkweed and thug would be worth finding a slot?
Thug maybe for the e-wit effect
imp could be good for a repeatble blocker I guess
Very annoying card
frail flare
It's not an ewit. You're setting the top of your library to be dredged
misty geyser
Right
ornate heron
It's not an ewit. You're setting the top of your library to be dredged
Well it also works for this, getting you back a creature that you need
If you need it in hand you just draw it, otherwise you mill it again
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Ngl I'm tempted to throw thug in because I have a pretty sick old border foil one
frail flare
Thug is just a good card
misty geyser
I might throw imp in just to see how good a deathtouch blocker could be>
frail flare
It's not good everywhere but it's just good
Somehow it's not deathtouch still
Stinkweed is better for something you're discarding but it can be a blocker in an emergency
grand hingeBOT
Sorcery
Choose up to five 
worth of modes. You may choose the same mode more than once.
— Put a +1/+1 counter on a creature you control. It gains vigilance and trample until end of turn.
— Choose artifact or enchantment. Destroy all permanents of the chosen type.
— Draw cards equal to the greatest power among creatures you control.
misty geyser
I want at least one way to wipe artifacts and enchantments but I feel like I should find a cheaper option
frail flare
It's the same "cost" but [[bane of progress]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
I considered bane, but I was wondering if something cheaper might be better in this particular case
Hmm
It seems like [[fade from history]] is the only one that's actually cheaper
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
and not "also pay x for mana value"
And season of gathering draws me cards
Unforunate
frail flare
[[rampage of the clans]]
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
Is both but gives bodies
misty geyser
I almost consider that a win con for those kinds of deck
cash in all your treasures for an army of 3/3s
I had that as a win con in my Rocco deck
frail flare
I just re-read [[aether snap]]
grand hingeBOT
molten geode
look, i see grist, i see minsc, i see golgari thug, you know we're in for a good time
i haven't seen grave-troll yet but im not that far in
this deck does not contain Golgari Grave-Troll, but he's here in spirit
misty geyser
I didn't know if a 5 drop beater was good enough here?
Maybe it is tbh
5 mana is also a lot
molten geode
he probably isnt, just when i see a deck that cares about dredge enough to use dredgers he's always the first one that comes to mind
even before stinkweed imp
misty geyser
Well with this deck being so low to the ground in terms of needing efficient card choices, I need to be careful to avoid cards being dead on any side
molten geode
one thing he's good at is being an excellent target for Greater Good
if you're not on that, then he's not great
misty geyser
Yeah card draw isn't the issue here for sure
molten geode
yeah
misty geyser
I feel pretty okay with this current list. I just need to make sure I can get to the state this deck wants to be in as quick as I can
molten geode
sorry wasnt trying to complain about the lack of GGT or suggest it
misty geyser
I want people in top deck mode, because I want to build the deck to absolutely win in that mode
molten geode
yeah, i see the vision
molten geode
only thing i'd even worry about is possibly how quickly you're getting to 3 mana for the discard engines and even then i think you're totally fine on that
this looks very good
molten geode
well yeah you dont really need a lot because your best cards that get people to discard are at 2 and 3 mana
misty geyser
So usually I'm running out my first engine on t3
Landing coram t4, then starting the grind and trying to dig for ways to empty hands ASAP
molten geode
i could see a want for something like an ignoble hierarch if you run it enough and you're like "maybe i actually need to be a bit faster"
misty geyser
That's why Trailtracker scout stayed in
E-wit attached to a 2 mana dork is cracked in half
molten geode
just my opinion is you really want dorks that are high card quality because you can then outclass whatever single card an opponent topdecks
even something like a [[molt tender]]
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Insect Druid
: Mill a card. (Put the top card of your library into your graveyard.)
, Exile a card from your graveyard: Add one mana of any color.
The Speedbrood regards molting as a selfless act worthy of the highest of honors. It allows one to be born anew for the good of the brood.
1/1
misty geyser
True
I like molt tender conceptually, for sure
Currently, [[dawnhand dissident]] is in over that
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Elf Warlock
, Blight 1: Surveil 1.
, Blight 2: Exile target card from a graveyard.
During your turn, you may cast creature spells from among cards you own exiled with this creature by removing three counters from among creatures you control in addition to paying their other costs.
1/2
misty geyser
So I can buy back cards if I want to
molten geode
i think dawnhand dissident is probably better
misty geyser
I keep forgettign how goddamn sick this card is
molten geode
card is insanely good
misty geyser
I read the first two lines of text and my eyes glaze over
Then mxkale reminded me of the last ability and we're so back
molten geode
LMAO im the same way with molt tender though
you hit me with the exile a card from my gy for mana and im like 🥱
but then i remember that milling a card is basically tap to draw a card in a lot of decks
dissident is so sick though and it's probably incredible in this deck
misty geyser
It's pretty explicitly that with Coram
The issue I have with molt tender is that it doesn't work t2
usually
molten geode
yeah :/
you can't ramp to 3 with it, it's a ramp to 4 card which is fine but 4 is mostly not the number of mana we care about here
misty geyser
Unless I'm eating my own cards or I get lucky with an opponent's fetchland (which my LGS almost never runs other than me)
Hmmmm
I do like seeing it as a ramp to 4 card
T1 ramp to 4 t3 card is a good way to put it
molten geode
yeah
misty geyser
I need a couple more options for 1 man astuff
Like, I genuinely might replace arcane signet
molten geode
it's basically a 1 mana discount on farseek for decks that like using farseek to ramp to 4
usually how i look at him
he also is just better in decks that cast farseek anyway, obviously
misty geyser
I was also thinking about [[skull prophet]]
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Human Druid
: Add or .
: Mill two cards. (Put the top two cards of your library into your graveyard.)
"I study bone because that's where truth dwells. One monster knucklebone is wiser than all that damp meat in your head."
3/1
molten geode
however he has the thing i hate about every dork (and i hate it about molt tender too)
misty geyser
?
molten geode
1 toughness
molten geode
depends on how much gutshot/lavadart/forkedbolt/obm you see
locally i see a lot of gutshot, obm, and lavadart
misty geyser
Like occasionally I see some amount of [[inferno titan]]-type stuff
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Giant
: This creature gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
Whenever this creature enters or attacks, it deals 3 damage divided as you choose among one, two, or three targets.
6/6
misty geyser
where you're dividing damage
molten geode
yeah but if someone's inferno titaning you and you're worried about the life of your dork
i think you have bigger problems
misty geyser
I don't mean inferno titan specifically, I mean like evoked fury or whatever kind of chunk of damage getting divided
misty geyser
I just wish my LGS ran fetches more often
So I could run DRS
and it just always owrk
molten geode
yeah 🙁
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Ox
When this creature enters, discard your hand, then draw three cards.
Escape—, Exile eight other cards from your graveyard. (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its escape cost.)
This creature escapes with a +1/+1 counter on it.
4/2
molten geode
umaru did u know i have a signed artist proof of him
because he's one of my favorite cards ever printed
i definitely noticed and i appreciate his inclusion
misty geyser
Did you know I do too :3
molten geode
HELL YEAH
misty geyser
And it's going in the deck
Any opinions further on the deck? I think it's to the point that I want to start slapping it together in paper
molten geode
there are a couple of things, but like nothing super major
people fucking hate it but you could always test out Valki
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — God
When Valki enters, each opponent reveals their hand. For each opponent, exile a creature card they revealed this way until Valki leaves the battlefield.
: Choose a creature card exiled with Valki with mana value X. Valki becomes a copy of that card.
2/1
Tibalt, Cosmic Impostor 
Legendary Planeswalker — Tibalt
As Tibalt enters, you get an emblem with "You may play cards exiled with Tibalt, Cosmic Impostor, and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any color to cast those spells."
+2: Exile the top card of each player's library.
−3: Exile target artifact or creature.
−8: Exile all graveyards. Add .
Loyalty: 5
molten geode
i think he wins the game like, a nonzero amount of the time when you cast the back
without any other board setup
molten geode
it is a lot, and that's why i said you might try it at some point
i usually try to keep ~15ish cards to swap in and out and if i were doing that with this deck, i think valki would be one of them
just because a deck like this having a win button is very powerful
misty geyser
Thoughts on the 5 drops? If I'm gonna add what is effectively a 7 drop I'm definitely going to wanna cut a high cost card
molten geode
i would also consider veil of summer if you area has a lot of blue, but if not it's probably not worth it
lemme look at them again
i think aclazotz is probably the worst thing in your 5 slot
it's not bad just the worst thing in the slot
either that or LOP
depends on how aggressive you end up thinking you need to be
misty geyser
Aclazotz is real good in all states of this deck
If I need a discard engine, he's there
molten geode
if you wanna be really aggressive you probably keep aclazotz, if you think you can play a long game lord is for sure better
misty geyser
Like the game's gonna go long and it also wants to get in for damage pretty consistently
molten geode
i dont hate the idea of swapping out archfiend of depravity either
misty geyser
See that's the one I was looking at
molten geode
since he has to get through 2 player turns
misty geyser
But it does shut off go wide decks
molten geode
i think that card's really solid against like, pretty much anything creature-based
misty geyser
Which I wouldn't easily be able to deal with
molten geode
but actually if i were running something for that slot i'd rather be on the one rakdos
that does it on my end step only
misty geyser
The board wipe demon?
grand hingeBOT
molten geode
i think i actually like this card over it even at 1 mana more pretty much every time
molten geode
it's also something that if you can keep someone off the board does just draw you two cards a round
yeah, just something to look at
misty geyser
Giving my opponent a choice just means I'm not going to get what I want, which is shutting creatures my opponents control down
molten geode
yeah, it's less good at specifically that, but it's more likely to go off
and at the end of the day it depends on if you value the immediate impact or the power with less assurance
but also i think that's probably also your valki slot
if it doesnt perform i'd test valki there and then see how you like it when he comes up
still needle
Hijacking your thread (sorry) https://moxfield.com/decks/H2PJkV3EjkOmoEqajqyvRg Fetches/bondlands expensive but obviously would be the choice of upgrade, however it is trying to be budget conscious (expensive bits in here I just already own)
@misty geyser I sat down and finished junding it up, I am interested in your take.
misty geyser
I had considered perforating artist
I wasn’t a fan of giving opponents the choice
Shelob seems really mana hungry
I really like oversold cemetery
But idk if it’d work
still needle
I had considered perforating artist
Without deathtouch I wouldn't have either tbf, if it was being replaced I feel it'd end up being some kind of 3-4 mana wipe/wipe adjacent thing to hit enchantments, maybe even [[convert to slime]]
still needle
Shelob seems really mana hungry
it isnt there for any text beyond creature in the type box and "if die, exile"
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Then you might be better off with [[dauthi voidwalker]] or [[emperor of bones]]
still needle
The fact it is a one card engine for draw/threats is just situational
misty geyser
so you can synergize with discard
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Dauthi Rogue
Shadow (This creature can block or be blocked by only creatures with shadow.)
If a card would be put into an opponent's graveyard from anywhere, instead exile it with a void counter on it.
, Sacrifice this creature: Choose an exiled card an opponent owns with a void counter on it. You may play it this turn without paying its mana cost.
3/2
Creature — Skeleton Noble
At the beginning of combat on your turn, exile up to one target card from a graveyard.
: Adapt 2.
Whenever one or more +1/+1 counters are put on this creature, put a creature card exiled with this creature onto the battlefield under your control with a finality counter on it. It gains haste. Sacrifice it at the beginning of the next end step.
2/2
still needle
oh I had forgotten emperor!
misty geyser
Yeah
still needle
Cool guy
misty geyser
Card slaps
dense wadi
I feel as tho I missed a lot of conversation since I said I’d take a peek at a deck
misty geyser
All good! I’d take advice any time
still needle
emperor also lowers my curve
misty geyser
And funny enough it synergizes with [[dawnhand dissident]]
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Elf Warlock
, Blight 1: Surveil 1.
, Blight 2: Exile target card from a graveyard.
During your turn, you may cast creature spells from among cards you own exiled with this creature by removing three counters from among creatures you control in addition to paying their other costs.
1/2
still needle
huh, thats cute
misty geyser
Remove the 2 +1/+1 counters from emperor and the finality from the creature it brings back
Re-adapt
dense wadi
Which deck am I peeking at now 😅
misty geyser
Sorry Nalyd i have had a revelation and done some reworks idk if you were privy to that
frail flare
@still needle 3 counter payments, it's not just for Tayam anymore
dense wadi
https://moxfield.com/decks/i2_9lu1HmUeNSrTc2EPmQA
Aim for this is which bracket roughly? 2-3?
misty geyser
Aim for this is which bracket roughly? 2-3?
Yeah
dense wadi
Aight. So one of the things my brain kinda got caught on like a plastic bag on a branch is Fireglass Mentor. I like the card but I feel like it only vaguely synergizes with the setup you’ve got here and think it could be replaced with something that leans into it more.
Either something that provides a threat because of all the discard you’ve got, like [[ivora heir]] or [[Tourach cantor]]
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Vampire Warrior
Trample
When Ivora enters and whenever it deals combat damage to a player, create a Blood token. (It's an artifact with ", , Discard a card, Sacrifice this token: Draw a card.")
Whenever you discard a card, put a +1/+1 counter on Ivora.
1/1
Legendary Creature — Human Cleric
Kicker (You may pay an additional as you cast this spell.)
Protection from white
Whenever an opponent discards a card, put a +1/+1 counter on Tourach.
When Tourach enters, if it was kicked, target opponent discards two cards at random.
2/1
dense wadi
One of the many “each opponent discards when enter” like [[hecteyes]]
grand hingeBOT
dense wadi
Or something that lets you churn into the deck more like [[ogre head helm]] that is more synergistic than the impulse draw on mentor
grand hingeBOT
Artifact Creature — Equipment Ogre
Equipped creature gets +2/+2.
Whenever this creature or equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may sacrifice it. If you do, discard your hand, then draw three cards.
Reconfigure 
(: Attach to target creature you control; or unattach from a creature. Reconfigure only as a sorcery. While attached, this isn't a creature.)
2/2
dense wadi
All at the 2 mana slot cuz mentor was one of the few low to the ground pieces
misty geyser
All good options
I liked the fireglass for direct draw
But I could see running something like those
Alternatively I can maybe do a Bob
dense wadi
I think Ivora would be my first option of these
Followed by Tourach
You’ve got a lot of symmetrical discard and Tourach is liable to become a removal magnet fast which is fine since he’s cheap and eats something that would kill a bigger target
And if you recast him later on he probably strangles the hand of whoever’s been outdrawing your discard
molten geode
I'm actually big on Tourach
dense wadi
I like Tourach a lot
I’d also inquire, if you’ve done testing, how often Raccoon Dorks expend 8 is going off for you? I like the card but I think there may be some other 2 mana dorks that synergize more. Your curve does skew high but I’m not sure it skews 8 mana often on paper
misty geyser
I haven’t tested the expend 8 stuff
dense wadi
My gut is telling me you might get more out of [[tender wildguide]] [[twitching doll]] or [[armored scrapgorger]]
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Possum Druid
Offspring (You may pay an additional as you cast this spell. If you do, when this creature enters, create a 1/1 token copy of it.)
: Add one mana of any color.
: Put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.
2/2
Artifact Creature — Spider Toy
: Add one mana of any color. Put a nest counter on this creature.
, Sacrifice this creature: Create a 2/2 green Spider creature token with reach for each counter on this creature. Activate only as a sorcery.
2/2
Creature — Phyrexian Beast
This creature gets +3/+0 as long as it has three or more oil counters on it.
: Add one mana of any color.
Whenever this creature becomes tapped, exile target card from a graveyard and put an oil counter on this creature.
"Eat. Sort. Eat. Sort. Eat."
0/3
dense wadi
The first for something to expend 4 on that can get you more mana or grow on off turns, the second for a ticking clock that baits removal, the third for an additional source of cleaning up stuff from opponents graves you don’t want to see back after all the discard
misty geyser
I was thinking about scrapgorger
What was that activated ability one? Something explorer
[[intrepid paleontologist]]
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Human Druid
: Add one mana of any color.
: Exile target card from a graveyard.
You may cast Dinosaur creature spells from among cards you own exiled with this creature. If you cast a spell this way, that creature enters with a finality counter on it. (If a creature with a finality counter on it would die, exile it instead.)
2/2
misty geyser
maybe scrapgorger is better
It’s just required to exile if it can, including my stuff
misty geyser
Okay, took out trailtracker scout and fireglass mentor and added burglar rat and armored scrapgorger
misty geyser
@molten geode speaking of escape, any ideas for escape cards to run in Jund?
I’m thinking maybe [[bloodbraid challenger]]
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Elf Berserker
Cascade
Haste
Escape—, Exile three other cards from your graveyard. (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its escape cost.)
Hasal knew hunting in the Rip would be dangerous. He didn't know it would be so much fun.
4/3
misty geyser
[[from the catacombs]] seems good
grand hingeBOT
Sorcery
Put target creature card from a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control with a corpse counter on it. You take the initiative. If that creature would leave the battlefield, exile it instead of putting it anywhere else.
Escape—, Exile five other cards from your graveyard. (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its escape cost.)
molten geode
you're already playing the best 2
misty geyser
Right
molten geode
i don't think the others are all that great but you might try out bloodbraid challenger
i think from the catacombs is just a bit too steep imo
misty geyser
I really think I need to stop brewing haha
I need to pull the trigger on the list before I start making changes
molten geode
i would just get a list of like 15-20 cards to swap in
and just run games
list looks fine
ornate heron
I’m thinking *maybe* [[bloodbraid challenger]]
Acts as a persistent source of damage and what acts like card draw since you can recast it if you are hellbent
So definitely not a bad choice
misty geyser
You know what?
I think [[mandate of abaddon]] should be replaced with good ol’ [[damnation]]
misty geyser
Unless there’s a better option
But i don’t think this deck cares about a full reset
hushed tapir
Good ol damnation/wrath of god feels GREAT to slam down
misty geyser
I mean, it's more just that this deck can recover from a late game damnation way better
I just can't think of a creature wipe that would work better
I have deluge
And don't really wanna go over 5 mana
grand hingeBOT
Sorcery
You may pay rather than pay this spell's mana cost if there are thirteen or more creatures on the battlefield.
Each player sacrifices thirteen creatures of their choice.
"A demonic pact is all fun and games until the bill comes due." —Liliana Vess
grand hingeBOT
grand hingeBOT
Sorcery
Choose up to five worth of modes. You may choose the same mode more than once.
— Each player sacrifices a creature of their choice.
— Draw a card for each creature that died under your control this turn.
— Each opponent loses X life, where X is the number of creature cards in your graveyard.
ornate heron
or... [[season of loss]]
Definitely works well, removal draw and life loss are all things the deck needs
misty geyser
[[agatha's soul cauldron]]
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Artifact
You may spend mana as though it were mana of any color to activate abilities of creatures you control.
Creatures you control with +1/+1 counters on them have all activated abilities of all creature cards exiled with Agatha's Soul Cauldron.
: Exile target card from a graveyard. When a creature card is exiled this way, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control.
misty geyser
Hm
I'm debating between this and the mutagen card
This is probably just better
But I wonder if I wouldn't just oops into major combos with this
misty geyser
Nah [[mutagenic ooze]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
[[the ooze]]
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Artifact
Whenever a creature you control with a +1/+1 counter on it leaves the battlefield, create a Mutagen token for each +1/+1 counter on it. (A Mutagen token is an artifact with ", , Sacrifice this token: Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature. Activate only as a sorcery.")
: Exile target card from a graveyard. Create a Mutagen token.
molten geode
tha ooze
misty geyser
I feel like this is better for eating any card
I only get counters on cauldron if I eat a creature
misty geyser
Not more than them giving counters
molten geode
i was gonna say, if you didn't and just wanted grave hate i think unlicensed hearse still clears
misty geyser
I was just kind of considering my options for Ghost Vacuums I could run'
UH is still the top one here
I was just kinda wantign to make sure I have the right choice
misty geyser
I mean
You have scooze still
But I feel like Scooze is so extremely fine that it's not worth
But maybe it's okay here idk
I do like the ghost vacuums of the world being free to tap
molten geode
I think either Vacuum, Cauldron, or Hearse are the best
and personally i think hearse is the best of the three unless you have activated abilities you want to abuse
misty geyser
True true
misty geyser
I'm wondering if sepulchral primordial is worth it
Seems like a lot
I'm also genuinely thinking of bumping up to 40 lands
Becuase I don't have much ramp and want to get to 5 lands consistently
@eternal perch By the way, this is the newest rendition of Jund Midrange in commander. Idk if I ever ended up bringing you in on the discussion
https://moxfield.com/decks/i2_9lu1HmUeNSrTc2EPmQA
I feel a good bit more confident in the vibe of this one fitting
I've been obsessed with perfecting this deck for the last week or so
eternal perch
Hell yeah, just gave it a look and it looks fun
misty geyser
I bought the cards for the deck, now I just need to jam it a bunch to get a feel for it
eternal perch
Mind if I give a card suggestion? Its a pet card and not directly synergistic in the way of the rest of your discard but its cheap and regularly performs well for me
misty geyser
Go for it
eternal perch
[[!mind swords]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
I'm very open to suggestions here
Hmmmmm
I do like it
I was also considering [[unmask]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
But that would certainly be better
eternal perch
It backfires a bit but exile 2 in the early turns can wreck tempo while you establish threats
eternal perch
Eh, backfire in the sense it hits you too
But the beauty of decks like this are that you arent exactly short on things you could feed into it
misty geyser
I mean, that + my deck is built to get everyone into topdeck mode
I'm fine topdecking because my commander draws the top card of everyone's library
That I can cast + play lands from
"draw" 4 cards a turn is pretty good when your opponents have nothing to do about it either
eternal perch
Thats why I suggested it
Its up there with Winds of Change on my list of "lets see how reliable you built your deck," cards
misty geyser
I was also considering the [[delirium skeins]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
But idk how well that would work
misty geyser
I'm wondering what the ratio of persistent discard vs. one time burst discard would be
I run a couple but they all tend to be 2 mv and only hit one or two cards
like burglar rat, or now mind swords
I focus heavily on persistent discard
Which I understand becomes dead draws if everyone's in topdeck mode but that's why I tend to run them on bodies or on planeswalkers
I was also considering [[angrath the flame chained]] too
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
But 5 mana is a lot for discard
Just gotta see how things go with the current list
Is wrenn and six too cute?
It buys back my lands I discard
and gets back fetches
I might find a spot just because I like it tbh
hollow lantern
Thoughts on [[burning sands]] ?
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Not really wanting to do MLD
ornate heron
I was also considering [[angrath the flame chained]] too
Definitely a strong addition
misty geyser
[[scepter of fugue]] is so fucking funny
grand hingeBOT
Artifact
, : Target player discards a card. Activate only during your turn.
One goes to Tidehollow either to forget or to be forgotten. Either way, the scullers will oblige.
molten geode
umaru im pretty big on unmask here
i forgot to mention it but it was going to be a suggestion from me
i think that card's really good in specifically this kind of deck
as for Sepulchral Primordial, it really is one of those cards where you have to try it out to know if the deck wants it
it's really not as simple as like "this is a deck that wants sepulchral" or not it's entirely going to depend on how it feels when you cast reanimate on it
hushed tapir
I'm wondering if sepulchral primordial is worth it
3x reanimate, on a creature itself, is v good, esp in b1-3
misty geyser
as for Sepulchral Primordial, it really is one of those cards where you have to ...
That’s true
misty geyser
3x reanimate, on a creature itself, is v good, esp in b1-3
I like it a lot, but 7 mana will typically happen t6-7 in this deck
hushed tapir
I like it a lot, but 7 mana will typically happen t6-7 in this deck
I mean that’s…fine imo? Esp if you’re milling a lot of people, graveyards will be stuff of good targets
Nothing wrong with casting spells on curve
misty geyser
I really like [[uurg spawn of turg]] in general but I wonder if he's too low impact
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Frog Beast
Uurg's power is equal to the number of land cards in your graveyard.
At the beginning of your upkeep, surveil 1. (Look at the top card of your library. You may put that card into your graveyard.)
, Sacrifice a land: You gain 2 life.
*/5
misty geyser
i have a sexy textured foil showcase one I wanna use
gleaming rivet
In terms of 99 or Commander?
misty geyser
99
misty geyser
In terms of 99 or Commander?
https://moxfield.com/decks/i2_9lu1HmUeNSrTc2EPmQA
been brewing this the last week or so.
misty geyser
I kind of want to do a commander deck that's a case study on Regrowth cards
I don't love reanimating stuff, but I REALLY love regrowthing stuff
hushed tapir
I kind of want to do a commander deck that's a case study on Regrowth cards
Its not quite what you’re looking for but when I retooled my Windgrace deck, I put every “return target card from your graveyard to your hand” card that I could find - except for Actual Factual regrowth lol
misty geyser
Its not quite what you’re looking for but when I retooled my Windgrace deck, I p...
My thinking is partially for the Rock (or maybe most accurately a philosophical version of Asmo food?). Creatures or permanents constantly buying themselves and each other back until inevitability wins out and I kill them with removal + dudes
hushed tapir
My thinking is partially for the Rock (or maybe most accurately a philosophical ...
Sounds like a great gameplan to me
misty geyser
I just wonder what that would look like
hasty portal
When I think case study on Regrowth I do think of like [[Muldrotha the Gravetide]]
grand hingeBOT
hasty portal
I could imagine loops with cards like [[Luminous Broodmoth]] or [[Rinoa, Angel Wing]]
hasty portal
Then there's Commanders like [[Anaykr the Traveller]] [[Arcade Gannon]] [[Norman Osborn]] and [[Six]]
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Doctor
: Draw a card, then discard a card. Put a quest counter on Arcade Gannon.
For Auld Lang Syne — Once during each of your turns, you may cast an artifact or Human spell from your graveyard with mana value less than or equal to the number of quest counters on Arcade Gannon.
2/3
Legendary Creature — Human Scientist Villain
Norman Osborn can't be blocked.
Whenever Norman Osborn deals combat damage to a player, he connives. (Draw a card, then discard a card. If you discarded a nonland card, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.)
: Transform Norman Osborn. Activate only as a sorcery.
1/1
Green Goblin
Legendary Creature — Goblin Human Villain
Flying, menace
Spells you cast from your graveyard cost less to cast.
Goblin Formula — Each nonland card in your graveyard has mayhem. The mayhem cost is equal to its mana cost. (You may cast a card from your graveyard for its mayhem cost if you discarded it this turn. Timing rules still apply.)
3/3
hasty portal
That can give you endless regrowth of playing things from your graveyard over and over again as long as you have the necessary resouces.
Scratch Arcade. He's a once per turn.
misty geyser
That can give you endless regrowth of playing things from your graveyard over an...
See those are still kinda reanimating - I’m thinking more stuff like [[overgrown cemetery]]
grand hingeBOT
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Maybe I should just run [[viconia drow apostate]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
So I need my commander to be one or more things, then:
- A way to end the game, probably by giving the creatures I get back +1/+1 counters
- A way to mill cards to get access to more creatures to chain regrowth a ton of them
- A removal engine to keep utilizing my creatures that keep returning
- I wanna say another regrowth effect but that might just be redundant
- Something that cares about my stuff going in and out of my yard repeatedly
Finally, based on the cards that I’m seeing here (https://scryfall.com/search?q=otag%3Aregrowth+-t%3Ainstant+-t%3Asorcery&unique=cards&as=grid&order=edhrec&dir=), I’m thinking the deck is gonna be abzan, but I could see cutting down to golgari
hushed tapir
Without getting into partner or its variants, my initial thought was either [[teneb the harvester]], [[colfenor the last yew]], or [[karador ghost chieftain]]
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Dragon
Flying
Whenever Teneb deals combat damage to a player, you may pay . If you do, put target creature card from a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control.
6/6
Legendary Creature — Centaur Spirit
This spell costs less to cast for each creature card in your graveyard.
Once during each of your turns, you may cast a creature spell from your graveyard.
"Death tried to uncrown me. But now I return, king of a greater realm."
3/4
misty geyser
Without getting into partner or its variants, my initial thought was either [[te...
I like Colfenor, and tbh I was thinking heavy about Karador too - I know it’s not a regrowth but it can get those regrowth chains started too
Colfenor makes me think there’s gonna be combos and i ain’t got desire for that
Another funny thing - the dredge cards are perfect here, for exactly how I want them to be
And I like that
misty geyser
I wonder if [[thalia and gitrog]] would be a good commander option..
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
I mean, that or tayam
Could do Betor..
Betor is a good way to end the game at least, once I have a wide enough board
Hmmm
I was also thinking of Ravos//Kamahl
Ravos buys back creatures, Kamahl makes then big
OHHHH OH
[[death’s oasis]] is SICK
grand hingeBOT
Enchantment
Whenever a nontoken creature you control dies, mill two cards. Then return a creature card with lesser mana value than the creature that died from your graveyard to your hand.
, Sacrifice this enchantment: You gain life equal to the greatest mana value among creatures you control.
misty geyser
That is perfect
ornate heron
So I need my commander to be one or more things, then:
1. A way to end the game,...
Teval is direct pay off for these effects, gets you kheru goldkeeper in the colors, and mills cards for you plus some pulling stuff back albeit to the board
Sultai rather than abzan though
misty geyser
This idea is still quite nebulous to be fair
If I skip white, I lose out in
- Liesa
- Samwise Gamgee
- Sam the Stouthearted
- Athreos, God of Passage
- Court of Ardenvale
- Layla Hassan
- Elena Turk Recruit
- Ravos
- Death’s Oasis
- Phyrexian Missionary
pretty much all of them I can live without
Teval would certainly solve a couple of those problems
ornate heron
You also get kheru goldkeeper who is insanely strong for this effect
Blue also has the best mill pieces
Personally a huge fan of [[inspiration from beyond]]
grand hingeBOT
Sorcery
Mill three cards, then return an instant or sorcery card from your graveyard to your hand.
Flashback (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.)
When seeking spiritual enlightenment, best to go directly to the source.
misty geyser
If I gain blue, I get
- Colossal Skyturtle (based)
- Master of Death
- Tamiyo, Collector of Tales
- Ghost of Ramirez DePietro
- potentially Slogurk, the Overslime?
- Dee Kay, finder of the lost
- Mortus Strider?
These are just in terms of ewit effects
Like obv gb is the main shell
misty geyser
Personally a huge fan of [[inspiration from beyond]]
I’m not buying back instants and sorceries, the large majority of the time it’d be creatures (permanents ideally)
[[kheru goldkeeper]]
ornate heron
Makes sense, still love the card
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Dragon
Flying
Whenever one or more cards leave your graveyard during your turn, create a Treasure token. (It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this token: Add one mana of any color.")
Renew — , Exile this card from your graveyard: Put two +1/+1 counters and a flying counter on target creature. Activate only as a sorcery.
3/3
misty geyser
i know it’s good just reminding myself
Like, it’s okay
I just get a one cost reduction on my creatures as they come back p much
ornate heron
You also can hold up the mana, I personally made copies of him occasionally
misty geyser
Hm
ornate heron
Usually netting me mana in muldrotha
misty geyser
I don’t really plan to use clones in the deck, there are certainly more than enough e wit effects
ornate heron
[[Mythos of brokkos]] also is really nice
grand hingeBOT
Sorcery
If was spent to cast this spell, search your library for a card, put that card into your graveyard, then shuffle.
Return up to two permanent cards from your graveyard to your hand.
"The most unexpected weapon that a monster can wield is kindness." —Tales of the Ozolith
misty geyser
Heheheheheh [[oath of ghouls]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
I could also do shenanigans with [[phantasmagorian]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
I’m wondering if I need much ramp in this deck
I’m leaning towards no, since grinding with mulches is a better early game option
however, I do think I should run cost reducers and gy synergy stuff
edgy marsh
[[tayam]]
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Nightmare Beast
Each other creature you control enters with an additional vigilance counter on it.
, Remove three counters from among creatures you control: Mill three cards, then return a permanent card with mana value 3 or less from your graveyard to the battlefield.
3/3
frail flare
Abzan commanders definitely have affinity for combos
So the regrowth effect needs to be built into the commander itself?
misty geyser
So the regrowth effect needs to be built into the commander itself?
More likely than not the 99 is going to provide the regrowths
The regrowth in the cz is more redundancy but very likely not necessary
frail flare
Have you considered either of the Felothars?
misty geyser
I had, actually - I think if I did Abzan it would certainly be in the 99 if not the cz
The main set felothar for certain
frail flare
I'm just trying to think through ones that don't ham sandwich
misty geyser
Tayam doesn't necessarily ham sandwich
frail flare
No, it doesn't inherently, but you really do need to have a lot of intentionality about it
misty geyser
True
frail flare
[[nikara]] [[yannik]] were the partner pair from the Abzan deck
frail flare
They were neat and you could go wide or tall.
But you could like, money launder yargles
Or things with finality counters
misty geyser
Those could be a good include
frail flare
The abzan deck had 3 sets of commanders that didn't work well together
Those, Tayam and [[kathril]]
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
Yep
My husband saw Tayam when it released and he just latched onto it
I don't think he ever played the deck unmodified
misty geyser
Tayam is insanely cool! I can definitely see why he'd like it
dense wadi
https://scryfall.com/card/c20/10/kathril-aspect-warper
This seems highly fiddly
frail flare
It was
The problem is they may have made a better version of it when they did [[Indominus Rex, Alpha]]
grand hingeBOT
molten geode
I really need to build indom rex...
frail flare
But, in either case, they were very funny with "hexproof" because it counts all of the different versions of hexproof
So "hexproof from mono colored" and "hexproof from multicolored" are different
frail flare
It doesn't work
frail flare
Doesn't care about protection in either case
Also Progenitus shuffles back into deck
misty geyser
It shuffles in but it is still discarded
frail flare
frail flare
But, [[breaker of creation]] each of those are separate from my understanding
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
So, it gives 5 counters or draws 5 cards
misty geyser
Yeah
Hexproof from monocolored is weird here
It's just one counter as I understand it
frail flare
Yeah, it should just be one
But the Breaker is the one written strangely
I think [[nevinyrral, urborg]] is 3 (though obv color ID doesn't work)
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Zombie Wizard
Hexproof from artifacts, creatures, and enchantments
When Nevinyrral enters, create a tapped 2/2 black Zombie creature token for each creature that died this turn.
When Nevinyrral dies, you may pay . When you do, destroy all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments.
3/6
misty geyser
@molten geode @frail flare I had a really fun play last night with [[Dawnhand dissident]]
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Elf Warlock
, Blight 1: Surveil 1.
, Blight 2: Exile target card from a graveyard.
During your turn, you may cast creature spells from among cards you own exiled with this creature by removing three counters from among creatures you control in addition to paying their other costs.
1/2
misty geyser
I realized that with [[armored scrapgorger]] I can remove the oil counters it gets
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Phyrexian Beast
This creature gets +3/+0 as long as it has three or more oil counters on it.
: Add one mana of any color.
Whenever this creature becomes tapped, exile target card from a graveyard and put an oil counter on this creature.
"Eat. Sort. Eat. Sort. Eat."
0/3
misty geyser
So I exiled E-wit with Dawnhand, cast it by removing the 2 -1/-1 and an oil counter off of scrapgorger, got back my tinybones with ewit, then cast tinybones
It felt good
It's such an insane engine, I'm lowkey tempted to see what else I was considering that just so happens to care about counters to synergize with dawnhand
molten geode
yeah i bet, that's a huge speed increase
misty geyser
Like scooze would do crazy work here
molten geode
yeah, there's a lot of weird stuff that just hapens to add a counter to itself
misty geyser
I wonder if there's other oil counter stuff that is useful
I doubt it but lemme look
[[evolving adaptive]] is a card, but I don't think it's worth it
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
If anything I'd run experiment one but I'm certainly not running that
frail flare
My husband ended up not using scrapgorger in tayam because it's a required exile so if you're the only one with stuff in gy it can get exiled
misty geyser
Yeah that's why I was on the fence with it
frail flare
And you need to exile get something to get the oil
molten geode
gaak
misty geyser
https://moxfield.com/decks/v82SnSsObUO4-_dLwQ1e-w
okay so this was an accident but imo it’s sick as hell
Gaak
Not to mention he can be recast off altar to dementia
molten geode
yep, and altar of the wretched
misty geyser
Okay this deck is sick
molten geode
both of them work
since it's draw x mill x you'll always get enough off of him to recast
here's a question
we have hedron crab
do we want hedron crab 2
you can't hit yourself with it i guess so it's worse
i forgot that it's opponents not each player
molten geode
what's the text on [[veteran ice climber]]
grand hingeBOT
molten geode
this is target player
misty geyser
Hmmmm
molten geode
it's actually probably not as good in this as in mothman
misty geyser
I like a lot, but I have no way to make it bigger
molten geode
in mothman this becomes a 5/7 and you're gaming
molten geode
just trying to think of tools mothman uses because this is pretty similar
oh, raul?
i dont think i saw raul in there
[[raul trouble shooter]]
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Zombie Mutant Rogue
Once during each of your turns, you may cast a spell from among cards in your graveyard that were milled this turn.
: Each player mills a card. (They each put the top card of their library into their graveyard.)
"Raul Alfonso Tejada, former gunslinger and sole survivor of Hidalgo Ranch, at your service."
1/4
molten geode
turns things like Scheming Symmetry kinda nuts
misty geyser
Oh yeah I like this
Hmm
I need to make sure not to take away from the main aggro plan tho
molten geode
yeah fair
raul might just be too much of a value piece
OH
[[ledger shredder]]???
grand hingeBOT
molten geode
i dont know
misty geyser
Well. What my pfp is based on anyway
molten geode
"im something of a ledger shredder myself" — Norman Osborn // The Green Goblin
i think the card that makes dredge cards into aggro tools is really good personally
not sure if that's a common opinion 😛
frail flare
I'm very confused
molten geode
look at umaru's discord avatar
misty geyser
i think the card that makes dredge cards into aggro tools is really good persona...
Wait which is that
molten geode
the lil gremlin is shredding ledgers
frail flare
look at umaru's discord avatar
It's a person under a blanket
molten geode
Wait which is that
Ledger Shredder
molten geode
Ledger Shredder connive trigger dredges GGT, discards GGT, gets +1/+1
every single time
misty geyser
Oh hell yeah
frail flare
So, without my glasses all the paper is ignored in something the size of an eraser
molten geode
ah that'll do it
oh, here's a card you might like that i pretty much always suggest in decks like this
[[body launderer]]
grand hingeBOT
molten geode
you have i think literally zero rogues so far
misty geyser
Even if i did have rogues I wouldn’t be too concerned
molten geode
oh, dauthi and nighthawk scavenger, but still
frail flare
[[Mask of the schemer]]
grand hingeBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, it connives X, where X is the amount of damage it dealt to that player. (Draw X cards, then discard X cards. Put a +1/+1 counter on that creature for each nonland card discarded this way.)
Equip
misty geyser
I apparently have 5 rogues
molten geode
why is siegfried a rogue
molten geode
i think it is objectively worse than GGT in this deck in... every aspect
but still a dredger
i'd also be on darkblast
misty geyser
Idk about that one
molten geode
-1/-1 is a gutshot
misty geyser
Only dredging 1 and only hits little guys