I was gonna mention Elena
#Umaru’s Decklist Thread
dense wadi
Not legends matter but it synergizes pretty well with disposable treasure [[shadow mysterious]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
I’m just scrolling through that search I sent
misty geyser
Not legends matter but it synergizes pretty well with disposable treasure [[shad...
He’s very funny lol
dense wadi
Cuz imo the card draw is more important than the life loss
Saccing a treasure token for two cards is nice
misty geyser
You can stack it to get the treasure and then sac it immediately for draw
dense wadi
Ye
misty geyser
I like
frail flare
[[locke, treasure hunter]]
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
[[shadow the hedgehog]]
grand hingeBOT
dense wadi
Not out yet but [[rinoa angel]] might be a sleeper hit in an aggressive gameplan
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
[[squall, seed]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Not out yet but [[rinoa angel]] might be a sleeper hit in an aggressive gameplan
Yeah I saw that one she’s rad
dense wadi
She definitely is
The art has very boss bitch energy too which imo feels apropos for Olivia
frail flare
[[vincent, vengeful]]
grand hingeBOT
dense wadi
I like both Vincent’s, especially if you’re aggressive legends matters
I like that red Vincent can go off very quickly if you’re spreading attacks
Can be a 6/6 almost immediately on the right turn
misty geyser
[[gonti night minister]] is extra funni
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
[[shadow the hedgehog]]
As good as it is I could not bring myself to run a sonic card
How abiut [[sami wildcat captain]]?
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Artificer Rogue
Double strike, vigilance
Spells you cast have affinity for artifacts. (They cost 
less to cast for each artifact you control.)
"The hard way it is."
4/4
dense wadi
If you’re churning out enough treasure I imagine it’s nice
And they are a fairly chunky legendary attacker
misty geyser
I’m thinking [[zuko conflicted]]?
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Rogue
At the beginning of your first main phase, choose one that hasn't been chosen and you lose 2 life —
• Draw a card.
• Put a +1/+1 counter on Zuko.
• Add 
.
• Exile Zuko, then return him to the battlefield under an opponent's control.
2/3
misty geyser
comes down early, ramps into olivia t3, and draws an extra card
dense wadi
I was taking a peep at him
Almost suggested
He’s very aggression minded
I also almost suggested [[June bounty]] since cheap legends that are also outlaws might be at a premium
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Mercenary
June can't be blocked as long as you've drawn two or more cards this turn.
, Sacrifice another creature: Create a Clue token. Activate only during your turn. (It's an artifact with "
, Sacrifice this token: Draw a card.")
"My shirshu can smell a rat a continent away."
2/2
misty geyser
I also almost suggested [[June bounty]] since cheap legends that are also outlaw...
Yeah, only issue is I’m typically drawing during combat
dense wadi
Yeah she’s not the best fit imo
misty geyser
Am I missing anything obvious on the historic/legendary side of things?
dense wadi
[[sereima]]
grand hingeBOT
dense wadi
[[seriema]]
grand hingeBOT
dense wadi
Do you have that?
misty geyser
Oh dhit the joins up cards
misty geyser
Do you have that?
Not yet
dense wadi
Hard to ignore it in legend matters with white
Especially if you’re gonna turn cards sideways
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
this guy is way cooler than I thought on first blush
Blue creature shenanigans?
It gives you flash each turn? And you can have combat shenanigans while holding up mana??
Beautiful
Also lets you do shenans with stuff like unwinding clock, waterbending skin, and victory chimes
grand hingeBOT
Artifact Creature — Robot Giant
Warp 
(You may cast this card from your hand for its warp cost. Exile this creature at the beginning of the next end step, then you may cast it from exile on a later turn.)
The Edge is littered with the vestiges of civilizations annihilated by the Eldrazi.
9/9
frail flare
Great blocker
dense wadi
[[the blue spirit]]
Rad card tho it makes me wish so much it was Izzet to support a lot of those “enters attacking” token makers
misty geyser
https://moxfield.com/decks/yAOOV1LJcEePCbTJ0wgLPw
any obvious misses in this list? I’m missing a good chunk of top end cards but I don’t think I need more of them?
frail flare
[[teshar, ancestor's]]?
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
You have 26 targets including your commander
misty geyser
See I considered teshar, with the number of 3 mv creatures it might be good
In previous legends decks it wasn’t great
But here might be better
still needle
Teshar also triggering off rocks sagas etc is nice
misty geyser
More importantly what do I cut for it
frail flare
You have 44 cards that trigger it
frail flare
Was going to suggest [[one ring to rule them all]] a card that has sat in my hand doing nothing more often than not
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Also a good choice, that is my experience too
But milling is also quite good for kethis
So it does do a relevant thing immediately here too
frail flare
Yeah, you do need a creature on the battlefield
frail flare
Which has definitely been another issue of stuff getting removed in response to it being on the stack
misty geyser
A deck with 40 creatures should be fine there
still needle
Yeah, you do need a creature on the battlefield
Don't tell my opponents, they keep letting it resolve
I love it personally, think the card is a house
frail flare
Don't tell my opponents, they keep letting it resolve
Me having 2 games last night where after the first game I wasn't allowed to keep a board. (I lost all 3 games)
misty geyser
Okay so
Cloning Jin Sakai means unblockable double strikers
I am gonna brew this deck because that is sick as hell
Also - should Jin go in Esper?
Seems really good
hushed tapir
[[jin sakai]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
[[jin sakai]]
https://moxfield.com/decks/9i5xTosBGkKSh0EnQ7XfLA
here’s what I got - thoughts?
frail flare
Yuriko is confusing me
She's your only ninja, right?
I guess you also have kaito and mono-b Nashi
frail flare
Since you're on Sakashima, does [[blade of selves]] make sense here?
grand hingeBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature has myriad. (Whenever it attacks, for each opponent other than defending player, you may create a token copy that's tapped and attacking that player or a planeswalker they control. Exile the tokens at end of combat.)
Equip 
frail flare
They come in tapped and attacking so they don't run afoul of the attack condition trigger
misty geyser
She's your only ninja, right?
I figure she functions as a better [[shadowmage infiltrator]] here
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Draws cards AND burns the table
Give her unblockable or double strike via jin and you’re off to the races
frail flare
I have had such terrible luck with her I think it's tainting my opinion
misty geyser
I have had such terrible luck with her I think it's tainting my opinion
My logic is, at minimum, it’s a cooler shadowmage infiltrator
And outside that she does some serious damage
misty geyser
I’m ngl
I think jin sakai is replacing esper tempo
I just goldfished a board of Jin, Grazilaxx, each equipped with a different sword and from a single combat step got like 12 cards off the top via double striking with swords
Which is really fun
hushed tapir
Hellllll yeah
misty geyser
Jin sakai is so cool dude
What’s extra fun is you can run cheap evasive dudes with combat damage triggers and make them twice as effective, which basically turns them into way above rate creatures
[[shoreline looter]] slaps so hard
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
And cloning Jin means I get to have all unblockable and double strike
Also Yuriko in this deck was a genius include
hushed tapir
That rips
misty geyser
It has paid off so well in testing
hushed tapir
You got a decklist link?
misty geyser
Ngl enduring curiosity might get replaced with some other tymna effect maybe
The list is like 96% complete in paper
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Leviathan
Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to a player, you may draw that many cards.
Warp 
(You may cast this card from your hand for its warp cost. Exile this creature at the beginning of the next end step, then you may cast it from exile on a later turn.)
7/7
misty geyser
Oh! What are your thoughts on [[starwinder]]
I like it, might be a bit too expensive for the deck tho
7 mana is a lot
long ridge
https://moxfield.com/decks/9i5xTosBGkKSh0EnQ7XfLA
I'm building Jin too - I actually think the draw swords are pointless
misty geyser
With few exceptions, I kinda want my curve to cap at 5 (cast + equip swords)
misty geyser
I'm building Jin too - I actually think the draw swords are pointless
Yeah? Why’s that
I don’t necessarily disagree but I was curious your thoughts
hushed tapir
7 mana is a lot
True but it is also 4
misty geyser
Like sofi is good but maybe winmore here
sick locust
oh Idk if i'd run sofi in a blue deck
misty geyser
True but it is also 4
Ye, but between that or enduring curiosity, I like enduring
long ridge
Yeah? Why’s that
They're 3 to play, 2 to equip. Triggers from one creature dealing combat damage.
Enduring curiosity is 4 mana, and does the same but for all your creatures
misty geyser
True
long ridge
I also really like The Indomitable in that slot too
misty geyser
Ooh true
long ridge
[[the indomitable]]
grand hingeBOT
sick locust
I also really like The Indomitable in that slot too
same
long ridge
But the power buff isn’t insignificant either
I actually don't like it - I don't want my Jin to get big (unless I'm swapping to Voltron win)
Big evasive commanders become removal magnets
misty geyser
Right, my deck isn’t voltron
long ridge
Smol evasive commanders less so
long ridge
Yeah that's how I started but I added in Genji glove, Eden and reconnaissance for those "I need to finish this game" moments
Delney absolutely slaps without swords too
misty geyser
Any thoughts on my creature suite?
long ridge
I love them
misty geyser
Delney absolutely slaps without swords too
Oh damn you know what
I didn’t even think of that
Jin double triggers when he’s at 2
That’s huge for the deck
long ridge
Delney is busted af. Draw 4, unblockable jin with double strike
misty geyser
I knew delney was good but man
I always forget how good
So it sounds like I at least have a swap or two
Thoughts on [[buster sword]] here?
grand hingeBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +3/+2.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, draw a card, then you may cast a spell from your hand with mana value less than or equal to that damage without paying its mana cost.
Equip
misty geyser
Like I feel like it helps cast whatever pretty well, especially on double strike
I’m thinking pip-boy 3000 not being a combat damage trigger makes it pretty bad here
long ridge
Okay so background on my deck - I have these two decks that I love.
- [[Cloud, Midgar Mercenary]] - https://moxfield.com/decks/KuE0tztIgkOVV_kKIa5Yew - I just love doubling attack or combat triggered equipment. It is "slow" Voltron, in that I don't ever try to make him really big, I just pile up triggered abilities to draw loads and ramp. I love this concept.
- [[Hermes, Overseer of Elpis]] - https://moxfield.com/decks/g96hWrxdiUyKXG5rwmLrsg - the whole deck revolves around creating these evasive 1/1s and then running every [[Coastal Piracy]] effect to give me loads of draw due to the birds being amazing evasive attackers.
Jin feels like a best of both worlds situation - I can do the trigger doubling from the double strike, and the curiosity effects from the unblockability.
long ridge
I'm currently on the fence about how I want my game to go. Original list is very much turn 1 land, turn 2 rock, turn 3 Jin, turn 4 attack with Jin and start throwing down more creatures/equipment with triggers
But I've been thinking - what if I go off rocks and aim for turn 1 creature, turn 2 creature, turn 3 creature, turn 4 Jin and now my three creatures can get double strike or evasion
I'm not sure which of those I like more
long ridge
But looking at your cards, here are a few I think you might want:
[[Squall, SeeD Mercenary]] - Combat damage based Sevinne's Reclamation/ Sun Titan which can even give himself Double Strike. Throw in a bunch of off fetches and this becomes ramp!
[[Delney, Streetwise Lookout]] - Doubling Jin's abilities is just crazy. As good as any clone, but only 3 mana! Also grants evasion. Also a bunch of our other combat damage triggers are from 2 power or less creatures
[[Irenicus's Vile Duplication]] - I prefer this to [[Spark Double]] because I'm not going to be copying a Planeswalker, and the added Flying just helps with the evasion so you can focus on the Double Strike. I would just drop [[Chameleion, Master of Disguise]] for this because the only benefit he actually has is the Mayhem cost, and you already run both Thought Vessel and Reliquary Tower.
[[Sevinne's Reclamation]] - I might just be too in love with this card but I put it in every low curve white deck. Equipment gets blown up? Not a problem. Run fetch lands? Turn this into land ramp.
[[Avatar's Wrath]] - this isn't hugely synergistic, but I think deserves a spot in every commander-focused deck. I love it so much.
[[Impostor Syndrome]] - I don't love this card, I generally hate playing cards with more than 4 mana value. But I think it could do crazy work if it sticks around. Worst case it's a 6 mana clone. I don't have strong feelings about this one, but I think it could be cool.
[[Genji Glove]] - This is an awesome finisher, especially if you also add [[Reconnaisance]]. With [[Cloud, Midgar Mercenary]] and Recon you can actually get three total combats!
[[Brotherhood Regalia]] and [[Duelist's Heritage]] both provide half of Jin's ability. Sometimes you might just get Jin removed too much and need backup.
Some things I think might want to be cut:
[[Thought Vessel]] and [[Reliquary Tower]] - yes we draw a lot but by discarding we can enable things like Squall or Sevinne's Reclamation.
[[Sword of Fire and Ice]] - I think a [[Coastal Piracy]] effect does the important part of this (card draw). Protection and 2 damage is nice, but realistically there are better ways to protect and better ways to remove stuff.
[[Kaito, Cunning Infiltrator]] - Okay this might just be in for fun and I think getting the emblem out is cool as hell, and if it's a pet card, great! But realistically you'll only ever get to ult it if you can get +6 Loyalty immediately, which means hitting with 3 double strikers. Even if you manage that, the ult isn't that amazing unless you have Yuriko or Ingenius Infiltrator out. I guess it grants evasion which is cool?
[[Virtus the Vauled]] seems like a strictly worse [[Unstoppable Slasher]]?
[[The Aetherspark]] - Cool as hell, I love this card, but it is a 4 mana put a +1/+1 counter on a creature the turn it comes down. Next turn it'll be great though! I don't like cards which do nothing until your next turn, but that's a personal preference
[[Thada Adel, Acquisitor]] could be cool too
grand hingeBOT
long ridge
I’m thinking pip-boy 3000 not being a combat damage trigger makes it pretty bad ...
Agreed - prefer [[Umezawa's Jitte]] though I've cut that too
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Artifact — Equipment
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage, put two charge counters on Umezawa's Jitte.
Remove a charge counter from Umezawa's Jitte: Choose one —
• Equipped creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
• Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
• You gain 2 life.
Equip
long ridge
I'm thinking of adding in [[The Regalia]] or [[Sword of the Animist]] just because I LOVE land ramp
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1.
Whenever equipped creature attacks, you may search your library for a basic land card, put it onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle.
Equip
The blade glows only for Zendikar's chosen.
long ridge
[[Sword of Hearth and Home]] does it better of course since it's a combat damage trigger
grand hingeBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +2/+2 and has protection from green and from white.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, exile up to one target creature you own, then search your library for a basic land card. Put both cards onto the battlefield under your control, then shuffle.
Equip
long ridge
[[Shoreline Looter]] is good tech, I need to add that to mine
grand hingeBOT
long ridge
I also generically love [[Savor the Moment]] because it's sort of land ramp, sort of give all creatures haste
grand hingeBOT
long ridge
And with [[Reconnaisance]] it's an extra combat too
grand hingeBOT
Enchantment
: Remove target attacking creature you control from combat and untap it. (If you activate during end of combat, the creature will untap after it deals combat damage.)
War favors the informed.
long ridge
Also Yuriko in this deck was a genius include
[[Ingenious Infiltrator]] also exists as a second Yuriko btw
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Vedalken Ninja
Ninjutsu 
(, Return an unblocked attacker you control to hand: Put this card onto the battlefield from your hand tapped and attacking.)
Whenever a Ninja you control deals combat damage to a player, draw a card.
2/3
misty geyser
If i was gonna run a “second yuriko” i’d run [[shadowmage infiltrator]] first, but the real bonus to yuriko is that she also burns the table
grand hingeBOT
long ridge
With double strike you can ninjutsu after first strike damage,which is cool
misty geyser
True, I’ve done that with yuriko already
long ridge
If i was gonna run a “second yuriko” i’d run [[shadowmage infiltrator]] first, b...
Oh, yeah thats great
misty geyser
Oh wow I have a lot to resd up on
Sorry I’m putting together a deck and heading to the LGS today but I’ll read when I get there
long ridge
Jin is my current build so I have a lot of thoughts about it
RIP hermes, my previous obsession
[[Grima, Saruman's Footman]] could be something but 4 mana is a lot for a not so great effect the next turn
grand hingeBOT
long ridge
Slap the green player and steal their cultivates
sick locust
jokes on you, I don't run cultivate
sick locust
well, no
grand hingeBOT
sick locust
its better in decks with more colors
and also it sort of depends on what mana thresholds you want to hit
I took it out of the bello precon, for example, because going from 3-5 was a bit of an awkward step for that deck
but yeah mono green doesn't really need cultivate as much, and if your deck cares about certain steps up the mana count, it might not work there either
long ridge
it's maybe good in a deck which cares about playing multiple lands per turn
I just realised that if you have an unblocked double strike Squall, you can pull a fetch land from the yard, crack it immediately, then pull it again on normal damage
Busted af
I don't usually run off fetches but this calls for it
misty geyser
[[Grima, Saruman's Footman]] could be something but 4 mana is a lot for a not so...
Yeah but funny
misty geyser
its better in decks with more colors
I haven’t played cultivate for years now
sick locust
I think its in zero decks of mine now
except maybe the Yuma precon if its in there
I have that unmodified
long ridge
Yeah but funny
My curve is probably too heavy on the 4s, looking a bit like Bumble at this point!
But without the sweet green land support
misty geyser
But I've been thinking - what if I go off rocks and aim for turn 1 creature, tur...
I’m thinking exactly the same as this tbh. You don’t need jin until you can maximize his trigger. Drop a 1, 2, and 3 before him and then get a ton of triggers as soon as he comes down.
Rocks get in the way of running good creatures
long ridge
I’m thinking exactly the same as this tbh. You don’t need jin until you can maxi...
Well, he is also just a good card draw engine even by himself
But yeah him on turn 3 with a rock means doing nothing for 3 turns
Turn 4 you start playing
But cutting out ramp feels bad to me
Unless maybe I throw in catchup ramp
[[Archaeomancer's Map]] will be really good with all the card draw
grand hingeBOT
long ridge
I love [[Claim Jumper]] in general
grand hingeBOT
long ridge
Cutting ramp makes you more weak to board wipes (which are already bad for a creature-focused strategy)
My Hermes deck runs so much ramp so that even if I get wiped I can recover fast
misty geyser
But looking at your cards, here are a few I think you might want:
[[Squall, See...
Yes delney, i see the logic on irenicus but nontoken is generally better? The flying is good though. Might do that suggestion for cut too. Yes duelist’s, agree on Sofi. Aetherspark is a future-turn card since it will always get a ton of immediate loyalty. Kaito provides unblockable and card selection more than anything, and it’s a bit of a pet card tbh. I like the thada suggestion.
misty geyser
[[Archaeomancer's Map]] will be really good with all the card draw
If you’re gonna run map just run [[pupu ufo]] instead ngl
grand hingeBOT
Artifact Creature — Construct Alien
Flying
: You may put a land card from your hand onto the battlefield.
: Until end of turn, this creature's base power becomes equal to the number of Towns you control.
"Thank you!"
0/4
misty geyser
These kinda cards are so incredibly underrated
long ridge
Agreed - I love [[The Regalia]] in non-green decks
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Cutting ramp makes you more weak to board wipes (which are already bad for a cre...
Yeah, just run more protection. Cutting ramp gives you a lot of wiggle room
Regalia is fine but i’d run ufo and [[walking atlas]] first
grand hingeBOT
Artifact Creature — Construct
: You may put a land card from your hand onto the battlefield.
Crafted by lullmages and bound to the land, it alters itself to match the tumultuous terrain.
1/1
long ridge
Yeah, just run more protection. Cutting ramp gives you a *lot* of wiggle room
You need mana to cast that protection though (sometimes...)
misty geyser
Yea since you’re running more 1 and 2 drops it suddenly becomes significantly easier
Selfless spirit, mom, step mom, flawless maneuver, flare of fortitude, clever concealment…
long ridge
The trouble is finding good 1/2 drops. Especially the 1 slot. There are lots of completely unblockable things without a payoff
long ridge
There are loads of just pure unblockables. But being unblockable doesn't do anything by itself
misty geyser
Hut yeah. 2 mana is where the fully unblockable stuff with extra upside happens
long ridge
Now, if I stack up a bunch of [[Enduring Curiosity]] effects
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Looter il kor, dauthi voidwalker, etc
long ridge
Then pure unblockable becomes awesome
misty geyser
Eh
long ridge
(That's basically the thesis for my whole Hermes deck)
misty geyser
I’d rather each creature do stuff on its own too
I like Edric as that kinda commander too
Had a casual edric deck once
It was sick
long ridge
I think Squall is one of the best cards in this deck
misty geyser
[[squall seed merc]]
grand hingeBOT
long ridge
Why not
misty geyser
Not just one per player
misty geyser
Oh for some reason I thought they were the same ability
misty geyser
True
long ridge
Return fetch, crack it before normal damage
misty geyser
My opponents really didn’t like me playing jin today lol
misty geyser
I had jin, [[malcolm keen eyed]] and psychic frog out
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Siren Pirate
Flying
Whenever one or more Pirates you control deal damage to your opponents, you create a Treasure token for each opponent dealt damage. (It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this token: Add one mana of any color.")
Partner (You can have two commanders if both have partner.)
2/2
misty geyser
Every turn I was drawing anywhere from 2-4 cards and making 2 treasures every turn
But that’s ALL i was doing man
Cmon
Until I landed a [[key to the vault]] but that’s besides the point
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Artifact — Equipment
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, look at that many cards from the top of your library. You may exile a nonland card from among them. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order. You may cast the exiled card without paying its mana cost.
Equip
long ridge
Yeah I think it lacks a win con win con
misty geyser
Creatures being unblockable is a win con
long ridge
Like a "okay I drew a unch of cards and made a bunch of mana and here's the payoff"
misty geyser
:3
grand hingeBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature has double strike.
Whenever equipped creature attacks, if it's the first combat phase of the turn, untap it. After this phase, there is an additional combat phase.
Equip
"I must say, I quite enjoy these tussles."
misty geyser
Also when I clone jin I really start pushing damage
long ridge
True
misty geyser
Genji glove is good yeah
misty geyser
It’s good, 100% recommend
long ridge
That shit on [[Cloud, Midgar Mercenary]] with double strike...
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
I hit with a double striking malcolm and got two swords off the top for free
long ridge
It's like a super buster sword
misty geyser
Yeah
Cloud got me the key too
I forgot I casted cloud
ALSO
Something to consider that I might be adding to the list
[[teshar ancestor’s]]
grand hingeBOT
long ridge
I might end up pulling my cloud deck completely apart for this deck
It does the cloud thing, but with good colours
misty geyser
it’s in the paper list rn (took apart kethis for the sleeves and am missing a couple jin cards so he’s in there as a standin) and it slaps
long ridge
Tempted by [[Enlightened Tutor]] for my final GC slot
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
You cast your equipment, you get back a dude who can hold it
Nah, cyc rift cult
Reigns supreme
misty geyser
Send list link pls
misty geyser
Oh i just realized i only have 2 gcs lol
long ridge
It's not final and I have never played it, it's been a lot of goldfishing and thinking really hard about it when I'm trying to fall asleep
misty geyser
Gotta get a yuriko in there dawg
long ridge
I pulled it from a booster
I absolutely fucking hate them
I also hate those cards in general
misty geyser
It pisses me off because of stuff like that
long ridge
[[Yuffie Kisaragi]]
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Ninja
Commander ninjutsu (, Return an unblocked attacker you control to hand: Put this card onto the battlefield from your hand or the command zone tapped and attacking.)
Whenever a Ninja you control deals combat damage to a player, reveal the top card of your library and put that card into your hand. Each opponent loses life equal to that card's mana value.
1/3
long ridge
The black stroke around the text is horrible
misty geyser
They ought to put the real card name in parenthesis next to it or smth
misty geyser
The black stroke around the text is horrible
Yeah it’s so ugly
long ridge
But like, I pulled it from a pack in foil
misty geyser
Fair lol
long ridge
It has been sitting in my trade binder for 6 months waiting for this moment
misty geyser
I picked up an etched foil
long ridge
Waiting for Yuriko to be un-GC'd
misty geyser
Was she ever?
long ridge
Yes
misty geyser
I didn’t know that
misty geyser
That’s fubny
long ridge
A lot of the commanders were un-GC'd
The ones which are busted in the CZ but okay in the 99
Bumbleflower is praying for [[Consecrated Sphinx]] to be removed
grand hingeBOT
long ridge
I've been thinking about [[Gonti, Night Minister]] for Jin too
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Fierce is a card that jin especially would appreciate
misty geyser
I've been thinking about [[Gonti, Night Minister]] for Jin too
Just deathtouch generally is good.
long ridge
I don't love Fierce
misty geyser
Double strike dt is a gross combo
long ridge
[[Rev, Tithe Extractor]] gives the dt
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Rogue
Whenever you attack, target creature gains deathtouch until end of turn.
Whenever one or more creatures you control deal combat damage to a player, create a Treasure token, then look at the top card of that player's library and exile it face down. You may cast that card for as long as it remains exiled. (A Treasure token is an artifact with ", Sacrifice this token: Add one mana of any color.")
3/3
long ridge
Might cut Black Market Connections - it's a great card but slow
long ridge
@misty geyser I've just seen this card which is an imitation of Malcolm but better for the deck since we run several ninjas/rogues: [[Prosperous Thief]]
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Human Ninja
Ninjutsu (, Return an unblocked attacker you control to hand: Put this card onto the battlefield from your hand tapped and attacking.)
Whenever one or more Ninja or Rogue creatures you control deal combat damage to a player, create a Treasure token. (It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this token: Add one mana of any color.")
3/2
long ridge
It lacks flying but makes up for it with creature coverage
[[Cartographer's Hawk]] may be something?
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
<@180801337947193345> I've just seen this card which is an imitation of Malcolm...
I don’t really wanna turn this into a typal deck, I’m picking cards based on their own effect
Cart hawk is funny but too fiddly
Like, generally
long ridge
I don’t really wanna turn this into a typal deck, I’m picking cards based on the...
Well it's the same as Malcolm but more synergistic with the deck
misty geyser
Well it's the same as Malcolm but more synergistic with the deck
Right
I was about to say that
Other thing is though malcolm has flying
long ridge
i'm also avoiding just going ninja kindred
misty geyser
Also you can run [[siren stormtamer]]
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Siren Pirate Wizard
Flying
, Sacrifice this creature: Counter target spell or ability that targets you or a creature you control.
He's the calm that hides the coming storm.
1/1
misty geyser
i would recommend
misty geyser
i'm also avoiding just going ninja kindred
Like, that 4 mana ninja you suggested is cool but shadowmage infiltrator is just better here imo
long ridge
Like, that 4 mana ninja you suggested is cool but shadowmage infiltrator is just...
Agreed
misty geyser
You know what, if you were to do a typal deck, human typal could be cool with jin
Esper humans sounds less explored
long ridge
the one I suggested was just good because its almost identical to Yuriko
misty geyser
Oh no, wait - inquisitor greyfax
long ridge
just 1 mana more, non-ninjutsu'd
Prosperous thief has ninjutsu, which is a form of evasion!
misty geyser
The burn is what puts yuriko over the top for me
long ridge
Fair
though the curve is so low
but yeah you could do a lot of damage with double strike yuriko
Maybe with say... Genji Gloves
misty geyser
Yeah, the draw is the primary. The burn is gravy
long ridge
I'm looking at cutting rocks for more creatures
but need to find the creatures for the low slots with good abilities
[[Serra's Ascendant]]
grand hingeBOT
long ridge
https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/171/siren-stormtamer
I was thinking [[Spellskite]] maybe for something similar
grand hingeBOT
Artifact Creature — Phyrexian Horror
: Change a target of target spell or ability to this creature. ( can be paid with either or 2 life.)
"Let's show Vorinclex that progress doesn't always need teeth or claws." —Malcator, Executor of Synthesis
0/4
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Tiefling Rogue
Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, create a Treasure token. (It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this token: Add one mana of any color.")
"And to think, a year ago I was picking pockets in Waterdeep."
1/3
long ridge
No natural evasion but only 2 mana
And of course, [[Mari, the Killing Quill]] is great
grand hingeBOT
long ridge
Not for typal reasons either, the card works well standalone
[[Zareth San, the Trickster]] looks spicy
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Merfolk Rogue
Flash
, Return an unblocked attacking Rogue you control to its owner's hand: Put this card from your hand onto the battlefield tapped and attacking.
Whenever Zareth San deals combat damage to a player, you may put target permanent card from that player's graveyard onto the battlefield under your control.
4/4
long ridge
[[Gix, Yawgmoth Praetor]] also cool
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Phyrexian Praetor
Whenever a creature deals combat damage to one of your opponents, its controller may pay 1 life. If they do, they draw a card.
, Discard X cards: Exile the top X cards of target opponent's library. You may play lands and cast spells from among cards exiled this way without paying their mana costs.
3/3
long ridge
Wow there are a lot of 2 mana unblockable looters
Thinking about [[Waterbender Ascension]]
grand hingeBOT
Enchantment
Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to a player, put a quest counter on this enchantment. Then if it has four or more quest counters on it, draw a card.
Waterbend : Target creature can't be blocked this turn. (While paying a waterbend cost, you can tap your artifacts and creatures to help. Each one pays for .)
long ridge
[[Goldvein Pick]] not a great card but maybe better when you reliably have double strike?
grand hingeBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, create a Treasure token. (It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this token: Add one mana of any color.")
Equip (: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
misty geyser
[[Hoard Robber]]
See I like malcolm because he fills this role AND has evasion
misty geyser
[[Goldvein Pick]] not a great card but maybe better when you reliably have doubl...
It’s okay, but at 3 total to cast and equip that’s just malcolm without the body
long ridge
See I like malcolm because he fills this role AND has evasion
Yeah, though the 2 mana cost is worth something in a low rock list
Need something to cast for 2!
long ridge
Just goldfished this absolute bastard of a start, poor goldfish opponents...
This is turn 5, just after combat
Though this is more a demonstration of how busted Cloud is with double strike
Maybe I should find more ways to give him double strike in my actual cloud deck...
tired wind
Sakashima boards are always pure warcrimes
long ridge
Sakashima boards are always pure warcrimes
Sakashima actually came out after, was cast off the buster sword
But turn 6 will be war crimes
Though I don't imageine the board would survive that long
long ridge
@misty geyser how do you feel about [[Faerie Mastermind]]? Doesn't have explicit synergy, it's just a goodstuff card, except that it is a Rogue/evasive so has a tiny bit of synergy with combat damage trigger stuff
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Faerie Rogue
Flash
Flying
Whenever an opponent draws their second card each turn, you draw a card.
: Each player draws a card.
Yuta Takahashi, World Champion XXVII
2/1
misty geyser
<@180801337947193345> how do you feel about [[Faerie Mastermind]]? Doesn't have...
Eh. I love the card but it doesn’t fit well here. I’d rather run ledger shredder
misty geyser
Thoughts on this list? It’s an old one I’m gonna look through and update but I bought the cards I needed for it already
So it’s gonna be an updating procedure
misty geyser
@sick locust so, I had a pretty crazy first showing of the deck
sick locust
nice
misty geyser
I had a t5 [[aminatou’s augury]] into an ancient copper dragon and a [[last march of the ents]]
sick locust
oh boy
misty geyser
I lost to a [[karvek the merciless]] with only 8 drops in hand 😭
grand hingeBOT
sick locust
oh joy
sharp garden
It’s definitely a card I’d add to some kinda gbr+ timmy deck
Checks out. It's in my vaevictis deck.
Which is like dark timmy
misty geyser
I am curious y’all’s thoughts
I didn’t realize it goes to my hand when I started so it may end up getting redone
Run a bunch of soul wardens so she triggers immediately
frail flare
[[ertha jo]] feels like she should be in this
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Kor Advisor
When Ertha Jo enters, create a 1/1 red Mercenary creature token with ": Target creature you control gets +1/+0 until end of turn. Activate only as a sorcery."
Whenever you activate an ability that targets a creature or player, copy that ability. You may choose new targets for the copy.
2/4
frail flare
Since she lets Bre target two things with the ability
frail flare
OK, fair, that was less clear
misty geyser
[[sire of seven deaths]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
I considered odric
But i don’t think it’s going to matter as much in reality
I’m usually gonna have like.. 2 or 3 big creatures
This is the perfect deck for [[balefire liege]] too
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Give it lifelink too, your red spells turn into helix
frail flare
Realizing you could also do her as a spellslinger deck
Which is a different idea but it's there
Just with the "instants/sorceries have lifelink" cards
tired wind
[[Lightning Army of One]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Boros Drana
Okay, it’s at 100 cards
I think I should bump up to 37-38 lands
And a couple more 2 mana ramp spells
I love that red is getting mana dorks now
frail flare
OK, so, I did think of one creature that would be very funny to use the ability on [[heartless hidetsugu]]
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Ogre Shaman
: Heartless Hidetsugu deals damage to each player equal to half that player's life total, rounded down.
Hidetsugu held over a dozen oni in blood oath. At his touch, rocks scorched. At his word, cities burned.
4/3
frail flare
I like your list where it is generally
I wonder it might do well to lean harder into angels?
misty geyser
That would be really funny
misty geyser
I wonder it might do well to lean harder into angels?
I had Giada in there for a bit
But I need 2 mana ramp for bre, not for the angels
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
[[lyra dawnbringer]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
I would’ve replaced Baneslayer angel with that had I not already replaced it
frail flare
[[resplendent angel]]
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Angel
Flying
At the beginning of each end step, if you gained 5 or more life this turn, create a 4/4 white Angel creature token with flying and vigilance.
: Until end of turn, this creature gets +2/+2 and gains lifelink.
3/3
ornate heron
I avoided goreclaw because he doesn't do much on his own, most of the stuff in the deck already has trample, and he can't replace a veggies in hand since if he gets kill spelled or swept up I basically lose on the spot
Great card, but felt awkward for me to slot
Pyrewood Gearhulk is also so stupid. He tends to turn solid boards into swings that typically take out 1-2 players or most of the cumulative life from my opponents without leaving me open
sick locust
I run it in Bello where the body is slightly worse but it gets haste...
ornate heron
Menace on a bunch of 8/8+ tramplers also tends to make people really unhappy about blocking anything
sick locust
I run it in Bello where the body is slightly worse but it gets haste...
so it doesn't matter that it becomes a 4/4 instead
ornate heron
So with the toughness boost I virtually never lose stuff, and the damage can't be prevented clause just seals it for me... I have killed 2 people through fog and teferi's protection
sick locust
So with the toughness boost I virtually never lose stuff, and the damage can't b...
Kibler did live in Vegas
misty geyser
Menace on a bunch of 8/8+ tramplers also tends to make people really unhappy abo...
Oh true, menace is a good point
ornate heron
Moraug helped with the latter, susan got big lol
sick locust
I only missed that part because I went to go to his meet-and-greet
and get a good spot in line
(which meant I also missed him proposing, but I digress)
misty geyser
I wonder when we’re gonna finish the guild gearhulk cycle
misty geyser
Thoughts on [[aesi tyrant]]? I feel like he’s got the card draw on body to make it worth
grand hingeBOT
ornate heron
He kinda does, yeah. I am in white instead of blue so I can't really use a good few of the creatures you have
Feels bad not being able to run zacama and appa
misty geyser
So do you think I should just replace goreclaw with a veggie?
Might be better off for it
ornate heron
Honestly not a bad idea
misty geyser
I’ll do that and see how it goes
I like Ranger’s path, I always forget about strictly worse skyshroud claim
misty geyser
Verdant mastery was one I considered but decided against
ornate heron
Ah thats my list I made for someone
Verdant mastery has been fun
I rarely ever cast it for 4
misty geyser
You should add [[arixmethes]] to that
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Kraken
Arixmethes enters tapped with five slumber counters on it.
As long as Arixmethes has a slumber counter on it, it's a land. (It's not a creature.)
Whenever you cast a spell, you may remove a slumber counter from Arixmethes.
: Add 
.
12/12
ornate heron
In naya
misty geyser
It’s a blue veggie
ornate heron
So I can't
ornate heron
Ah
misty geyser
And arixmethes is a really cool one (i also have a serialized one so I’m biased)
ornate heron
I could go over a few others like him in there
misty geyser
oh you lucky mf
I’ll show you a pic when I get home, it’s 002/500
ornate heron
Horizon of progress is also great so far in here
Has been used to put out a land a couple of times
ornate heron
And I use the sacrifice to draw a card like every game
Fits what the deck needed almost as perfectly as appa ffs
misty geyser
@sick locust
sick locust
My friend
sharp garden
Haha number 2
misty geyser
Haha number 2
Number one in my heart
misty geyser
@ornate heron how about [[dawn’s reflection]] and [[canopy tactician]]?
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Elf Warrior
Other Elves you control get +1/+1.
: Add .
"Death and life are two ends of the same spear."
3/3
ornate heron
Dawns reflection isn't bad, wouldn't recommend any dorks since a boardwipe when relying on them will just ruin your entire day
I don't run the former because I have enough veggies and the land ramp has a couple other benefits over other ramp types
misty geyser
True, I was just doing some research on all of the options in all colors
What does land ramp do that dawn’s reflection doesn’t, out of curiosity
Any of them that can refund you immediately seem especially powerful
ornate heron
Pulls cards out of deck for thinning, synergizes with landfall stuff if you have any, and doesn't get swept up in some of the especially powerful boardwipes, even if they are rare
The former part I agree with most people that its usually not relevant and tends to have a much lower impact than you would think... however the deck only has around 15ish non-land cards that don't help to top deck later game, and multiple of the lands are draw power, while all the rest of the deck is gas. While also pulling 2 lands from the deck rather than a single one, it all tends to make it more noticeable and relevant than usual.
misty geyser
That makes sense
I made this, I believe I got it all
Even some of the weirder ones
ornate heron
I made this, I believe I got it all
I would also put in unexpected windfall, big score, and Pirate's Pillage
They are especially good in radha where you can use her attack trigger red mana to get out of hands that have only 2 lands
But decent anywhere you can get the red mana down early enough (definitely not mine sadly)
Also I should note that the ones in black are entirely unusable I believe... I don't think any 2 cost ramp piece can get you into black while in the command zone
[[Belbe observer]] could but inconsistently
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Phyrexian Zombie Elf
At the beginning of each postcombat main phase, the active player adds 
for each of your opponents who lost life this turn. (Damage causes loss of life.)
"Those who wish to become evincar must first cast off the shackles of compassion."
2/2
ornate heron
Also helping opponents
misty geyser
Also I should note that the ones in black are entirely unusable I believe... I d...
Not yet
misty geyser
[[Belbe observer]] could but inconsistently
I tried to only include consistent ones
ornate heron
I tried to only include consistent ones
I meant her as a possible commander of one of these decks
misty geyser
Oh right
ornate heron
So far I know of 6 options for these decks:
Susan foreman (best for flexibility in colors and less strain on mana base)
Radha heir to keld (can get you out of occasional dead-ends as mentioned with windfall and big score)
Ruby daring tracker (can be an alright attacker, otherwise identical to radha)
Kellan Inquisitive Prodigy (needs a much higher land count to support him but you get a draw engine)
Bugenhagen Wise Elder (mono colored so weakest options for bombs but has draw and reach innately, so pretty strong to make up for it)
Belve Corrupted Observer (only including black but inconsistent... gives 2 mana though instead of 1 which is cool, and helps opponents who don't swing at you)
misty geyser
That’s kinda what I perceived too. Susan gives us the only possible 3 color options too.
Of which you get Bant, Temur, and Naya
Wish we could get jund but oh well
ornate heron
You could also make your deck much better mana base wise by cutting a bunch of lands and focusing on lands that you can tutor, basics + dual types
Since IDK about you but I genuinely ran out of lands until I got up to 20ish basics total
misty geyser
Haven’t had that problem, but my current list runs a lot less direct veggies cards
ornate heron
Focusing on land ramp also means you can fetch your colors so the base can be entirely green with only a couple plains and mountains
misty geyser
I run like 8 cards that have to get basic lands
Otherwise it’s stuff like arixmethes, skyshroud claim and frontier siege
ornate heron
Yeah thats why I have 3 of each forest plains and forest mountains
Since there are 3 veggies effects that search them
I tend to see at most 2 of them per game, having 6 total targets means I can always find them even if I draw into some of the targets
ornate heron
Haven’t had that problem, but my current list runs a lot less direct veggies car...
(Also I should point out that I meant that land mention in general for Susan, since you don't need to see both colors on turn 2 ever game, realized it looked like it was directed at your deck)
misty geyser
Nah I didn’t think that
ornate heron
Susan also allowed me to actually use some more utility lands
misty geyser
Her just needing green is pretty great though
ornate heron
Speaking of utility lands I still need to get that white green dual land that sacs to draw
misty geyser
Horizon Canopy?
ornate heron
Yup
misty geyser
I like those
ornate heron
Wish there was a full cycle
misty geyser
On a similar note, I also liked the idea of susan foreman//[[second doctor]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
little bit of group hug is always fun but that protection is quite nice too
Plus, your draws are always going to be better
ornate heron
My only issue being that I never play the doc early
The war doctor is kinda obscenely good in here, I have put as many as 60 counters on him in one turn without even using Bigger on the Inside + a veggies to cheese it...
But he is always a "I have no other options" sort of guy, not "this is the best option"
The demonstrate one could also be fun
You and an opponent get to veggies for some group hug lol
Its funny that I have a 4 mana commander that is "do I have 4 extra mana to spend on this" with the answer not inconsistently being yes, lmao
A deck that often can have 4 excess mana is a wild experience
misty geyser
Yeah, I’m running into the same thing with tenth doc, I haven’t casted him yet lmao
I’m thinking of having a play pattern involving getting my veggie setup off, then casting tenth and swinging susan
Get a free spell off the top, still have enough mana next turn to cast everything
Regardless of if she dies or not
ornate heron
Wouldn't be bad and you can consistently do it since you will guaranteed have the mana for him
Without susan*
misty geyser
I just wonder how good the suspend 3 card is vs. just casting a big spell
ornate heron
Probably just do it based off what's in your hand
Also its so unfortunate you can't run zacama, gisela, Legion loyalty, or appa
I would love to be running hullbreaker horror, koma, and imoti, but honestly can't see them being nearly as fun
I really should just look at doing a 4 color version with the expensive doctor
misty geyser
I really should just look at doing a 4 color version with the expensive doctor
Yeah but then the doc partner would be extra useless lol
I want them to do something
ornate heron
Agreed, half of why I like the war doctor. Burn or removal in the commander zone is good
Especially exile removal
misty geyser
Tenth is why I’m running sphinx and shadow of the second sun
I can get my spells immediately because I’d have the mana to time travel
ornate heron
Yeah its a good effect, especially cheating spells as big as what these decks thrive on
misty geyser
Have you thought of running [[Screamer Killer]]
grand hingeBOT
ornate heron
I have run it before, its nice but I have been back and forth on it
ornate heron
Have you thought of running [[Screamer Killer]]
My main issue is all of my creatures are at least mv 6, so monstrous vortex gives me chains fairly regularly with the only creature unable to continue them being emergent woodwurm... its not all bad with screamer killer as it would guaranteed end the chain on a ramp spell which means I don't get any further creature spells before it hits the board to get the extra value, but ending the chain still... ends the chain
MV is so strong it kinda has warped a huge portion of mt creature choice around it, the only thing good enough to justify a slot despite not triggering it has been emergent woodwurm, had a couple others like sweetgum recluse get cut in large part due to not working with it lol
misty geyser
[[emergent woodwurm]]
grand hingeBOT
grand hingeBOT
ornate heron
oh I thoughtnit was mana value
Its both, checks the power to trigger, checks the mana value to discover, and it can trigger itself repeatedly
Etali, into kogla, into thunderfoot baloth, into kodama, into ravenous rex, into ramp spell kinda shit
misty geyser
I might have to find a spot for it tbh
That and I was thinking of beans
And Trinisphere
ornate heron
I might have to find a spot for it tbh
I would for sure, if you do you should probably drop bane of progress, thryx and maybe a couple sorceries + ramp enchantments. More creatures means bigger chains, and Sunbird's Invocation kinda slaps, probably worth trying
misty geyser
True true
I do still want ways to wipe artifacts and enchantments though
Don’t wanna lose to a crawlspace or something
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Well, I did ask for obvious oversights haha
Kogla is fine, I frequently find he doesn’t last long enough to blow up more than a creature
Let alone more than one artifact/enchantment
ornate heron
I haven't had the same experience, half of what I drop is more threatening than him
misty geyser
I will say, blue in particular is nice because I get to run extra turn spells too
Chaining [[beacon of tomorrows]] or [[nexus of fate]] to get the extra mana/combat steps you need to win is huge
ornate heron
I don't think I could put extra turn spells in without making this deck impossible to play in any bracket
misty geyser
Plus they make for a funny copy of explore
misty geyser
I don't think I could put extra turn spells in without making this deck impossib...
Eh. Usually they’re not bad. People don’t tend to get too upset at a one off 7 mana extra turn spell
Unless you manage to draw it multiple turns in a row, but
ornate heron
Nah my issue is the power, I already occasionally win games on turn 7, another turn would just guarantee people die by then consistently
misty geyser
Ah
ornate heron
Its honestly a bit too strong for b3
But it could never handle b4
Since 1 removal or counter on t2-3 ruins my day, being locked into the curve out kinda sets the bracket in stone
misty geyser
I mean it only sets you behind one turn
Losing susan just means it’s a t4 veggie rather than t3
ornate heron
Mine has more burn and control-ish removal stuff than yours though, more refined towards stopping opponents from doing stuff so its probably not worrying in here
ornate heron
Losing susan just means it’s a t4 veggie rather than t3
The counterspell is more the issue, the removal also hurts though since its kinda slow for b4
misty geyser
Mine has more burn and control-ish removal stuff than yours though, more refined...
I do wanna pivot off of more mana and into more control for sure
Run, like, cresting mosasaurus and cyclone summer
ornate heron
[[Cresting mosa]]
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Dinosaur
Emerge 
(You may cast this spell by sacrificing a creature and paying the emerge cost reduced by that creature's mana value.)
When this creature enters, if you cast it, return each non-Dinosaur creature to its owner's hand.
It preyed on anything it could sink its teeth into.
4/8
ornate heron
EW 4 power
(Thats actually the only reason I don't run zetalpa or whatever the white keyword soup dude is)
[[Zetalpa]]
grand hingeBOT
grand hingeBOT
ornate heron
Yeah, 4 power blows for monstrous vortex
You might also like [[sarkhan's unsealing]] btw
grand hingeBOT
ornate heron
Probably the stuff that allows you to cast soells for free, zendikar resurge, and other big ramp stuff
misty geyser
Aww but zendikar resurgent is sickkk
ornate heron
It is, but its also not a body. The more creatures you have the less draw you need
misty geyser
I guess moving forward with the game plan rather than continue to accrue resources is better
Also I should probably cut chromatic orrery first
Thoughts on [[kozilek’s unsealing]]?
grand hingeBOT
Enchantment
Devoid (This card has no color.)
Whenever you cast a creature spell with mana value 4, 5, or 6, create two 0/1 colorless Eldrazi Spawn creature tokens with "Sacrifice this token: Add ."
Whenever you cast a creature spell with mana value 7 or greater, draw three cards.
eternal perch
Thoughts on [[kozilek’s unsealing]]?
Unrelated to the last discussion but I keep forgetting to get one of these foiled
misty geyser
@eternal perch so, in terms of archetypes I’ve ported to commander, I’ve only really successfully done one deck: Esper Tempo. In classic fashion it tends to suffer when you play against particularly unfair decks or ones that ramp harder than you can remove their stuff.
I love porting archetypes over from other formats! Here’s what I’ve got for Jund:
https://moxfield.com/decks/KzTxzHT21EyO6ELrQKQxsA
and here’s a few ideas I’ve tossed around for the Rock over the years to no avail (didn’t build them but they just didn’t feel right to me):
https://moxfield.com/decks/9HUx9XrJEEq3KlfYQSuXmg (gy focused w/ several efficient ways to bring stuff back whole developing tokens and eventually craterhoofing with kamahl)
https://moxfield.com/decks/14PsJmT7DEG4zNk0g5Fpng
(same but with major focus on [[reassembling skeleton]] effects)
https://moxfield.com/decks/pKYscVk_QESgTnGWSJQfzg
(goodstuff with a large removal package)
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Skeleton Warrior
: Return this card from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.
"If none of the bones are original, is it even the same skele—aaagh!" —Mort the Philosopher, last words
1/1
misty geyser
I really like the inevitability of reassembling skeleton and am thinking of following that route for something like a slow grindy b2 deck
As for Jund, it’s in a pretty good spot right now when it comes to ramping every turn via a fetch in the yard for windgrace, and constantlt dropping bomb after bomb, but I think I need to retool the deck slightly to have more efficient removal (either via wipes or discard engines on bodies) and beaters (kresh is a recent-ish addition)
eternal perch
<@296322523090386954> so, in terms of archetypes I’ve ported to commander, I’ve ...
Ooh, give me a sec to digest these. Im fiddling on my phone while studying, but am very interested even if I respond slow
misty geyser
No worries! Take your time, I’m gonna be shopping for the next hour or two
eternal perch
Groovy, love it
OK, first glance look through Jund, I like it. I will say there are a few cards Im iffy on but will admit they are DEFINITELY personal preference more than any issues with the exact style of the deck
For example, I was never sold on Bristly Bill period. I get where he's good but he rubs me wrong, and its not the spines
I like that you chose ramp packages that grow with your plays a lot too
Deck seems fun, and very flavorful
Would play against multiple times /10
misty geyser
For example, I was never sold on Bristly Bill period. I get where he's good but ...
Bristly bill is mostly a way to create beaters and capitalize on the most common thing in the deck: hitting 2 land drops a turn (one land drop, one from windgrace). That and scythecat cub do a lot of work to create beaters from nothing
eternal perch
Bristly bill is mostly a way to create beaters and capitalize on the most common...
Oh, no doubt and no contest. Thats why I specify a matter of taste ultimately
I have seen Bill do work across the table and can see where he does it here
misty geyser
I have seen Bill do work across the table and can see where he does it here
Any other glaring card choices?
eternal perch
Nothing glaring, though I do think there are some things Id want to see more of with just tweaks on volume
Key example, Kroxa
When I think of translating Jund into Commander, my first thought would be to translate how removal keeps up by aiming for 3 for 1s vs the usual 1 for 1 jund lives on
You have a good amount, and classics at that
Love seeing Lili in here, for example
But again that's more a point of personal preference than anything else. Like, given your growing beaters and a tendency to have big bodies slamming things in the mid-late game, Id have added pets like [[!necroplasm]] that keep pressure up
grand hingeBOT
eternal perch
But at its core the deck seems a blast. Very easy to tinker on the fly which is a HUGE boon to it too
I dont usually keep maybeboards, but Id see myself with one here given how flexible the approach is
And then torture myself with decision paralysis every time I aim to bring it somewhere I know
misty geyser
~~And then torture myself with decision paralysis every time I aim to bring it s...
Real, this deck has been decision paralysis city. Had to make some hard choices to put Aclazotz and Bloodletter of Aclazotz for the discard engine + beater respectively
I’ll have to throw together a maybeboard. I like Necroplasm but I’d like to avoid hitting my own board since my creatures need to stick around
One sided wipes are definitely preferred
But I do tend to have a higher curve than my opponents..
eternal perch
Also, you can skip cmc's by getting involved in combat or throwing counters on it through other methods
Plus it can dredge itself back so its not a hard thing for other cards to chew as cost when it matters. Not always great, but a favorite pet
I digress though
I like it
Not a lot of notes
ornate heron
@misty geyser There is another veggies from lorwyn now, always finding you 1 to ensure you need less lands in hand but can also find 2 if playing radha/ruby
misty geyser
<@180801337947193345> There is another veggies from lorwyn now, always finding y...
Hmmmmm
Only gets one basic, and requires that you have 4+ lands in hand/on field by t4…
I’d rather run something more consistent
Also, I found that I do NOT enjoy all the freecasting stuff
I was consistently having like 30+ power t4 and threatening t6 wins
So i might adjust down to, like, two cascade spells and the rest is big fuck you monsters
ornate heron
I’d rather run something more consistent
For this, similar effects, and case of the Locked Hothouse I run them as extras, if I draw them and have a great Hand for it I run it, if I don't then I am likely to have another veggies effects, just makes keep-able hands slightly more common
misty geyser
That’s fair
ornate heron
Especially since used later it can tutor 3 lands and help me hit more land drops + thin
hushed tapir
For this, similar effects, and case of the Locked Hothouse I run them as extras,...
The fact that cases don’t solve until end step is annoying enough to me that I don’t play them
ornate heron
The fact that cases don’t solve until end step is annoying enough to me that I d...
it solving also just wins this deck the game half the time though, the deck survives off of virtually no card draw so the tons of (effectively) card draw it can make is too much for a lot of pods. Just tonight I stomped a table almost exclusively because one of the guys was playing howling mine and I kept his punish cards off the table.
Even the one extra card got me through to seeing enough cards to have the selection I needed to win
frail flare
The fact that cases don’t solve until end step is annoying enough to me that I d...
Really? I've found they work fairly well then.
misty geyser
https://moxfield.com/decks/KCGM0TG9xEaaOMao9EjulQ
@ornate heron I’ve changed the deck up some to include far less freecasting for multiple reasons:
- The deck’s power level was WAY too high for what I had intended it to be at. I was consistently getting out like 30+ power on board by t4, or often having a board state where if I didn’t get board wiped I’d win on t5.
- It’s not as fun to just solitaire for 10 minutes then pass, my intention was to run big guys and start casting them early, not chain through my whole deck via cascade and discover.
- I want the deck to synergize better with [[trinisphere]] because that’s way more funny
grand hingeBOT
Artifact
As long as this artifact is untapped, each spell that would cost less than three mana to cast costs three mana to cast. (Additional mana in the cost may be paid with any color of mana or colorless mana. For example, a spell that would cost to cast costs to cast instead.)
frail flare
I like this new list.
Thoughts on [[shifting woodland]] or do you think it's a risk?
grand hingeBOT
Land
This land enters tapped unless you control a Forest.
: Add .
Delirium — : This land becomes a copy of target permanent card in your graveyard until end of turn. Activate only if there are four or more card types among cards in your graveyard.
misty geyser
Thoughts on [[shifting woodland]] or do you think it's a risk?
Wdym by risk?
frail flare
Chance it enters tapped
I've seen enough people be put off by it I haven't remembered which way people fall on it
misty geyser
Chance it enters tapped
Could be good. in terms of graveyard recursion, I’ve only got two pieces so that would be helpful. I would like to not change the # of basics in the deck though since I kinda rely on a healthy supply of them. Might cut a bond land
misty geyser
What the heck
?
sick locust
yeah
sick locust
or two squiggly dashes to cross out
sharp garden
imo, shifting woodlands goes in like every green deck
ornate heron
https://moxfield.com/decks/KCGM0TG9xEaaOMao9EjulQ
<@689873175583916086> I’ve ch...
Thats why I was recommending taking out a lot of the ramp pieces, cascade is fine if you aren't profiting mana off of it
I get genuine combo turns maybe t6+ once every like 15 games, and most of the time it is just 10ish spells, not the entire deck.
When you have a ton more ramp pieces that you keep hitting you often combo off, it isn't the case with how my deck is.
misty geyser
I get genuine combo turns maybe t6+ once every like 15 games, and most of the ti...
That’s fair. My main issue was I kept doing stuff like [[aminatou’s augury]] into other cards that cascaded into more cascades and other free spells
grand hingeBOT
ornate heron
That’s fair. My main issue was I kept doing stuff like [[aminatou’s augury]] int...
Thats why I don't run anything like that, yeah
This is a good t7
Since I hit both monstrous vortex and sunbirds
(Also as per usual its a terrible idea to have Combustible gearhulk mill in here, it would have been gisela, chimil, Legion loyalty)
This is more normal, hilariously got appa + etali airbended right at the end again
And this is very strong because opponents can't normally boardwipe me without dying to flaming tyrano + gisela, and if they do I have a moraug, etali, pyrewood gearhulk all ready to be recast... assuming they survived the 4 combats 2 of which had legion loyalty triggering
But its not even a guaranteed kill on t7, just t8. This is more what you should be getting from the deck if you build it with cascade and discover, but none of the other free spell casting.
misty geyser
And this is very strong because opponents can't normally boardwipe me without dy...
I really like your naya build too, if only because I love the big fuck off angels 🤣🤣
These are some sick board states dude!
misty geyser
mono g yes
Green-x yes
Green-x-x maybe yeah
It can go in any color combo with green if you have a good mans bas
ornate heron
I really like your naya build too, if only because I love the big fuck off angel...
Tyty, white was added almost exclusively for zacama, Legion loyalty, and Appa, but Gisela is so utterly stupid and protector of the wastes pulls his weight like no other, so its definitely felt like a great addition. Even with just the first 3 it has been noticeably better
[[Gisela blade of gold]]
grand hingeBOT
ornate heron
I have won so many games just because Gisela sticks around for like... 1-2 turns and keeps me from taking almost literally any damage during that time while my opponents absolutely destroy each other's life totals... having 8x 3/3s with menace deathtouch sent at me and being able to only take 5 damage last night was crazy... and the creatures I lose were omnath tokens so I sent 12 damage back for it lmao
sick locust
It can go in any color combo with green if you have a good mans bas
What other combos are there?
:p
misty geyser
What other combos are there?
Green-x-y-z and 5c
sick locust
4c doesn’t exist. It cant hurt me
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Bit of hotness with the deck @sick locust @ornate heron, picked up an original onslaught [[explosive vegetation]] in foil the other day
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
I’ll have to send pics in a bit
sick locust
Bit of hotness with the deck <@623727335090290688> <@689873175583916086>, picked...
Nice!
misty geyser
Chat should I run the Sun’s Zenith cycle for funsies
sick locust
Send it
misty geyser
@ornate heron thoughts on [[chandra torch of defiance]]
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Planeswalker — Chandra
+1: Exile the top card of your library. You may cast that card. If you don't, Chandra deals 2 damage to each opponent.
+1: Add .
−3: Chandra deals 4 damage to target creature.
−7: You get an emblem with "Whenever you cast a spell, this emblem deals 5 damage to any target."
Loyalty: 4
misty geyser
She’s a veggie that can draw you cards or, if you manage to ult her, easily win the game
ornate heron
She’s a veggie that can draw you cards or, if you manage to ult her, easily win ...
She also need protection to remain a veggie for longer than 1-2 turns, feels bad to use something so easily removed
misty geyser
Usually people don’t have threats by t3 enough to kill her
ornate heron
No, but if you protect her for that turn you get 1 turn out of her
Feels like she just stops you from being able to attack much if you don't hit other ramp pieces
Also need 2 red by t3 to play her... she is another veggies effect but I wouldn't use her very likely
sick locust
<@689873175583916086> thoughts on [[chandra torch of defiance]]
I like
tho tbf I play her in a deck running only red cards
frail flare
If you're not only running red cards then she's essentially just a mana dork.
I prefer [[chandra, hope's beacon]] for the twelfth doctor though she costs 2 more so I understand she's a fundamentally different card
grand hingeBOT
sick locust
I prefer [[chandra, hope's beacon]] for the twelfth doctor though she costs 2 mo...
Its so good too
frail flare
It just works better with it being a multi-color deck and the other + abiilty gives you until the end of your next turn to cast the spell
misty geyser
The fixing isn’t much of an issue for me
But importantly ToD is a veggie while Hope’s Beacon is not
frail flare
How is it a veggie?
misty geyser
4 mana, makes at least 2
frail flare
I apparently had heard a very different definition of veggie then
misty geyser
I go from 4 mana t3 to 7 mana t4, if I can’t do that with that card then it’s not a veggie
misty geyser
I apparently had heard a very different definition of veggie then
By “veggie” this drck specifically means [[explosive vegetation]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Not veggie as in generically helpful cards
frail flare
Yeah, that's why I'm saying clearly was using a different definition
misty geyser
Also, I’m far from moving on from Susan//10th, but I think Gay Kings Control would be quite fun
frail flare
Mm
sick locust
Yeah that’s a different kind of Veggie from what I hear people use: removal, grave hate, protection, draw, ramp, etc
misty geyser
@ornate heron thoughts on [[lavaleaper]]?
grand hingeBOT
ornate heron
More mana is kinda meh, it could be a veggies but helps opponents
sick locust
have you seen how many people here talk down on running basics (small sample size but the point stands, even if its also sort of a joke)
misty geyser
More mana is kinda meh, it could be a veggies but helps opponents
I don’t mind helping opponents if it means we get even more mana by planning around it, plus the all haste thing is really funny lol
frail flare
I played lavaleaper in limited and it was good but better if you have a way to turn it off
In commander I think it's going to be better than most people expect
misty geyser
So I’ve been thinking about The Rock and Dead Guy Ale
hushed tapir
It’s SUCH a fun archetype
Just value for days
This was a rock deck I put together a couple of years ago (so it’s outdated but still)
misty geyser
What do you think of when you hear The Rock?
dense wadi
Dwayne Johnson
hushed tapir
[[hermit druid]] and [[spiritmonger]]
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Human Druid
, : Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a basic land card. Put that card into your hand and all other cards revealed this way into your graveyard.
"The woods are not unknowable. Certainty and order are woven with the roots."
1/1
Creature — Beast
Whenever this creature deals damage to a creature, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.
: Regenerate this creature.
: This creature becomes the color of your choice until end of turn.
6/6
dense wadi
Followed by the Nicholas Cage and Sean Connery film
hushed tapir
Well I mean yeah dwayne johnson but I know the magic etymology
misty geyser
Self mill and beaters?
misty geyser
Yeah, [[deep forest hermit]]
hushed tapir
[[deranged hermit]]
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Elf
Echo (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this came under your control since the beginning of your last upkeep, sacrifice it unless you pay its echo cost.)
When this creature enters, create four 1/1 green Squirrel creature tokens.
Squirrel creatures get +1/+1.
1/1
misty geyser
Same diff
hushed tapir
Yeah
misty geyser
Damage being on the stack allowed for way more effective use of the phyrexian
dense wadi
I don’t know the magic term I just wanted to make a half joke
hushed tapir
I don’t know the magic term I just wanted to make a half joke
They’re related! “The Rock” as a magic archetype is a predecessor to the 2015 era Jund list with Goyfs and Liliana’s and efficient removal
BUT “the rock” genuinely comes from Dwayne Johnson’s wrestling character - “the rock and his millions” (meaning dwayne and his fans) was centerpoint of an old GB tokens/midrange value list centered around deranged hermit, with the squirrels being “the millions”
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Fungus
Whenever a Saproling you control dies, Slimefoot deals 1 damage to each opponent and you gain 1 life.
: Create a 1/1 green Saproling creature token.
As Jhoira restored the Weatherlight, a mushroom growing in its hold unexpectedly became her first crew member.
2/3
dense wadi
They’re related! “The Rock” as a magic archetype is a predecessor to the 2015 er...
Makes sense. Thank you.
misty geyser
If we focus on the tokens side of things
frail flare
[[amzu swarm's hunger]] maybe?
grand hingeBOT
hushed tapir
Makes sense. Thank you.
Here’s an article if you want the full story
https://www.mtgnexus.com/articles/1104-deck-history-the-rock
misty geyser
Outside that, I’m still stuck on thinking Tormod//Kamahl might be the best for things like e-wit value loops and reassembling skeletons allowing you to grind value and protect yourself until you can land kamahl with a big enough board
hushed tapir
Honestly thats why I chose the DMU Nemata as a token related callback to the original deck
frail flare
I guess? Kamahl/Tormod feels a lot like the Amzu suggestion
hushed tapir
I should redo my Nemata list because my deckbuilding has changed a lot the last two years
hushed tapir
I guess? Kamahl/Tormod feels a lot like the Amzu suggestion
Fair!
misty geyser
I guess? Kamahl/Tormod feels a lot like the Amzu suggestion
Sure, but amzu is a little more
Eggs-in-one-basket
frail flare
[[tormod the desecrator]] [[kamahl, heart of krosa]]
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Druid
At the beginning of combat on your turn, creatures you control get +3/+3 and gain trample until end of turn.
: Until end of turn, target land you control becomes a 1/1 Elemental creature with vigilance, indestructible, and haste. It's still a land.
Partner (You can have two commanders if both have partner.)
5/5
misty geyser
I can either make tokens with tormod or run out early threats and kill with kamahl
frail flare
Yeah, you may want something to make sure that Tormod's tokens enter untapped
sick locust
So I’ve been thinking about The Rock and Dead Guy Ale
Gee, I wonder what jogged that?
misty geyser
Well I’ve always liked the rock
The same way I’ve always liked jund
Dead Guy Ale was definitely brought about by yesterday’s discussion
But I’m wondering if DGA is just gonna be me rebuilding Breena lmao
And what’s really funny is that I feel like discard engines/tempo plays are the heart of every single one of these decks
frail flare
What about [[!abigale]] for dga?
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
As a way to convert anything that's had it's etb
eternal perch
https://scryfall.com/card/ecl/204/abigale-eloquent-first-year
I think she's a very neat flicker/reanimate target
misty geyser
What about [[!abigale]] for dga?
It would certainly go in, but idk about being the commander
I feel like i would be too tempted make it too much like a flicker deck than DGA
frail flare
Makes sense
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Elemental Sorcerer
Whenever this creature enters or transforms into Ashling, Rekindled, you may discard a card. If you do, draw a card.
At the beginning of your first main phase, you may pay . If you do, transform Ashling.
1/3
Ashling, Rimebound
Legendary Creature — Elemental Wizard
Whenever this creature transforms into Ashling, Rimebound and at the beginning of your first main phase, add two mana of any one color. Spend this mana only to cast spells with mana value 4 or greater.
At the beginning of your first main phase, you may pay . If you do, transform Ashling.
1/3
misty geyser
i am literally beating a broken drum here but this also looks fun
sick locust
it does look so fun
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Raccoon Warrior
At the beginning of your first main phase, add or for each Raccoon you control.
Whenever you expend 4, you gain 3 life. (You expend 4 as you spend your fourth total mana to cast spells during a turn.)
Whenever you expend 8, exile the top two cards of your library. Until the end of your next turn, you may play those cards.
2/4
frail flare
Just for mana generation and advantage. Muerra's doesn't have a use restriction on it though
I've seen fun things with warped permanents so [[anticausal vestige]] etc.
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Eldrazi
When this creature leaves the battlefield, draw a card, then you may put a permanent card with mana value less than or equal to the number of lands you control from your hand onto the battlefield tapped.
Warp (You may cast this card from your hand for its warp cost. Exile this creature at the beginning of the next end step, then you may cast it from exile on a later turn.)
7/5
frail flare
The Spike-Feeders build feels like it started as an [[Emperor of Palamicia]] deck
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Just for mana generation and advantage. Muerra's doesn't have a use restriction ...
The difference is, Ashling can cast a consistent t3 [[thran dynamo]] and Muerra can’t
grand hingeBOT
Artifact
: Add .
Urza's metathran children were conceived, birthed, and nurtured by an integrated system of machines.
misty geyser
The tradeoff being that ashling doesn’t draw you positive cards
misty geyser
Late night brews late night brews
The use of nonlegendary clone tokens in this deck is imo my favorite
T3 they’re a copy of your rock in the cz (that makes two mana) or it’s a copy of a big fuck off creature
misty geyser
Okay I did some scryfall mining and am pretty happy with where this is
misty geyser
I think my favorite of all these is [[sphinx ambassador]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
funny little thing
frail flare
You may want the elevator instead of sisay's ring
[[The eternity elevator]] or it may be overkill
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Artifact — Spacecraft
: Add .
Station (Tap another creature you control: Put charge counters equal to its power on this Spacecraft. Station only as a sorcery.)
20+ | : Add X mana of any one color, where X is the number of charge counters on The Eternity Elevator.
misty geyser
Issue being, I want mana ramp at 4 and big stuff typically at 7
Unless something is less but still really good
frail flare
Yeah, it being 5 and making 3 felt like it might balance it out
ornate heron
Yeah, it being 5 and making 3 felt like it might balance it out
It doesn't as the deck wants to curve out very specifically
You want to 4 cost ramp, get minimum 2 mana, have 6+ mana on t4
Else everything comes down another turn late which hurts a lot
frail flare
Yes, but that's why I said might.
misty geyser
@sick locust i know what I wanna do with Tamiyo now
With this card in mind, I wanna make a deck built around killing people with blue sun’s zenith
sick locust
Oh nice
hasty portal
School House Rock em!
frail flare
You need 16 mana to definitely kill one person with it. It's definitely easily doable with the blue inclusive x commanders.
misty geyser
Simic bs go brrrrrrr
frail flare
Untapper BS isn't specific to Simic 😅
[[Magus lucea]] is the one that will kill the table because of the delayed trigger
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Tyranid Wizard
Spiritual Leader — At the beginning of combat on your turn, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.
Psychic Stimulus — : Add . When you next cast a spell with 
in its mana cost or activate an ability with in its activation cost this turn, copy that spell or ability. You may choose new targets for the copy. (A copy of a permanent spell becomes a token.)
1/1
misty geyser
Right
I’m talking about finding a use for the foil borderless tamiyo I got recently
She buys back spells from the gy
So I was thinking simic bs into x spells meant to mill or draw people out
frail flare
I'm trying to remember her back [[tamiyo, student]]
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Moonfolk Wizard
Flying
Whenever Tamiyo attacks, investigate. (Create a Clue token. It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this token: Draw a card.")
When you draw your third card in a turn, exile Tamiyo, then return her to the battlefield transformed under her owner's control.
0/3
Tamiyo, Seasoned Scholar
Legendary Planeswalker — Tamiyo
+2: Until your next turn, whenever a creature attacks you or a planeswalker you control, it gets -1/-0 until end of turn.
−3: Return target instant or sorcery card from your graveyard to your hand. If it's a green card, add one mana of any color.
−7: Draw cards equal to half the number of cards in your library, rounded up. You get an emblem with "You have no maximum hand size."
Loyalty: 2
misty geyser
I need to sleep I just realized
Im also getting got by the insomnia gremlins tonight
Weeeeee
I could convert tokens to mana, I was mostly going for the good ol’ simic goodstuff ramp into x spells
frail flare
Im also getting got by the insomnia gremlins tonight
I got to sleep before 2, that means I won tbh
misty geyser
Dang. You got me beat by about 30 minutes
frail flare
I mean I won over my insomnia
misty geyser
True! Congrats haha
misty geyser
@cold chasm So I wanna do Derevi B3
cold chasm
I have been summoned by mention of our lord and feather 👀