True
#Umaru’s Decklist Thread
hushed tapir
I don't love tangled florahedron - I think I'd like [[gyre sage]] or [[kami of whispered hopes]] or [[rishkar peema]] or [[trailtracker scout]] instead
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Elf Druid
Evolve (Whenever a creature you control enters, if that creature has greater power or toughness than this creature, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.)
: Add 
for each +1/+1 counter on Gyre Sage.
1/2
Creature — Spirit
If one or more +1/+1 counters would be put on a permanent you control, that many plus one +1/+1 counters are put on that permanent instead.
: Add X mana of any one color, where X is Kami of Whispered Hopes's power.
Nashi knelt reverently before the kami and envisioned his family reunited.
1/1
Legendary Creature — Elf Druid
When Rishkar, Peema Renegade enters, put a +1/+1 counter on each of up to two target creatures.
Each creature you control with a counter on it has ": Add ."
"Aether is the soul of Kaladesh, and all souls should be free."
2/2
Creature — Raccoon Scout
: Add one mana of any color.
Whenever you expend 8, return up to one target permanent card from your graveyard to your hand. (You expend 8 as you spend your eighth total mana to cast spells during a turn.)
It takes great courage—and great curiosity—to tail calamity.
1/3
misty geyser
I don't *love* tangled florahedron - I think I'd like [[gyre sage]] or [[kami of...
I mostly used florahedron since it’s a creature attached to a land
It’s in a land slot, not a ramp slot
craggy owl
Silly me, I forgot to keep an eye in here.
misty geyser
It’s easy to miss this thread tbh
craggy owl
A friend who can join us in a few weeks for webcam games was texting me to review his Feather list, not knowing I’d looked at his profile updates an hour earlier. Then that reminded I should go back to following this thread to keep up on your deck updates.
frail flare
Are you naming elf or eldrazi with roaming throne?
frail flare
Yes
Sorry. I re-read it after seeing it listed in a different thread and then didn't add back in context words
misty geyser
I'd say it depends.
I'd pick Elf most commonly
But if there's something relevant like a [[glaring fleshraker]]
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Eldrazi Drone
Whenever you cast a colorless spell, create a 0/1 colorless Eldrazi Spawn creature token with "Sacrifice this creature: Add 
."
Whenever another colorless creature you control enters, Glaring Fleshraker deals 1 damage to each opponent.
2/2
misty geyser
Then I might pick them
frail flare
Just don't cloak it 😅
misty geyser
Yeah 99% of the time I won’t be cloaking
sharp garden
Did you ever end up brewing a vaevictis deck Umaru?
sharp garden
Thanks
sharp garden
Oh, it sure is lol
misty geyser
Pontiff’s list is really good with the pieces that would be relevant to a true blue (well, not blue, you get it) Jund deck
Big thing i missed on was mass discard
sharp garden
I wonder if the new winter matches the type of hand control we'd want
It gives card draw though which sucks
Thinking about creature decks, my friend hit me for 34 with a rakdos charm yesterday 😅
misty geyser
I wonder if the new winter matches the type of hand control we'd want
Tbh, yeah
misty geyser
Thinking about creature decks, my friend hit me for 34 with a rakdos charm yeste...
Get rakdos charmed idiot (lovingly)
sharp garden
Yeah, I deserved it for playing simic
craggy owl
I wonder if the new winter matches the type of hand control we'd want
It does. Also the timestamp erasing someone’s “no maximum hand size” is a trip for some people that get too comfy behind their Thought Vessel/Reliquary Tower/Sea Gate Restoration.
Stubborn passion for Vaevictis and the thrill of removal in the command zone keeps me with the dragon.
misty geyser
Stubborn passion for Vaevictis and the thrill of removal in the command zone kee...
If you wanna get techincal, discard is a form of removal :3
sharp garden
I was speaking more about putting it in the 99 anyways
craggy owl
If you wanna get techincal, discard is a form of removal :3
Also true. I count hand/stack interaction as being important.
misty geyser
So, relevant cards for me
Documenting my thoughts on where the cards will go:
Aetherspark - Bumbleflower, Tempo, Simic, cleopatra
Velocipede - Bumbleflower, Cleopatra (maybe)
Zahur - nowhere yet, maybe Sorin. Design is cool though. May try to make this the commander of the Lurrus deck.
Bulwark Ox - Bumbleflower
Caradora - Bumbleflower
Redshift - Muerra, Windgrace
Far fortune - Alesha (if i ever get the deck started..)
Winter - nowhere, just wanted to say repeatable board wipes can bite me because thus design sucks
Vnwxt - MAYBE tempo, MAYBE bumble. Start Your Engines is just kinda really bad
This isn’t to say these are definitely going in, these are just on considering for me
misty geyser
Esper Tempo got another nailbiter win!
I was at 6 life, casted [[return to the ranks]], gained 3 life and 3 energy w/ [[guide of souls]] and kept making my ninja from [[kaito shizuki]] bigger and bigger
grand hingeBOT
Sorcery
Convoke (Your creatures can help cast this spell. Each creature you tap while casting this spell pays for 
or one mana of that creature's color.)
Return X target creature cards with mana value 2 or less from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Creature — Human Cleric
Whenever another creature you control enters, you gain 1 life and get 
(an energy counter).
Whenever you attack, you may pay . When you do, put two +1/+1 counters and a flying counter on target attacking creature. It becomes an Angel in addition to its other types.
1/2
misty geyser
A poorly timed Dictate of the Twin Gods pushed me over the top to killing the other two
It was against Bello (bello) and Morophon (avatar typal)
craggy owl
Reskinned Esper tempo
misty geyser
This time with graveyard flavor!
you can’t stop me from having TWO esper tempo decks! Muahaha!
craggy owl
I can’t earnestly complain about reskinned decks anyway
I’m the king of it after all.
frail flare
The funny thing with the Hashaton is 4/4 is like the point where creatures become "worthy of attention".
Because it's bigger than bolt.
misty geyser
Because it's bigger than bolt.
The nice thing is that no matter what you’re passing the vanilla test
Since it’s a 3 mana 4/4 with only upside
Is there a way to reduce that cost? I know it’s a reflexive teigger so that’d be rough
frail flare
No, the point of how they did it is to fix that
frail flare
There are so many cool ways to build it
But it's not surprising it's busted considering I like it 😆
I swear, if I like a commander it's either: a potential cEDH commander or "weird little guy" who does a janky thing that's probably toxic.
misty geyser
I swear, if I like a commander it's either: a potential cEDH commander or "weird...
I mean, I think all the ones I’ve seen so far have been pretty normal! Soul of windgrace is pretty great
If it was Lord Windgrace I might have questioned it a bit more
frail flare
My decks are normal because of a lot of personal intervention and not buying cards.
misty geyser
Gamers, Tymna//Esior is doing good but there is definitely a chance to draw the wrong half of this deck
I played about 3 games with it last night, and if I was mana screwed, I was drawing all my <=2mv recursion and then drawing all my 3mv cards, or all my creatures and no removal ever, etc
I had an aether vial unused at 2 counters for 4 turns straight
frail flare
Yeah. The amount of card draw you have helps but I wonder if you have a narrow mulligan target
misty geyser
Yeah. The amount of card draw you have helps but I wonder if you have a narrow m...
Typically no, all I really need is 3 lands/2+ a couple evasive creatures
Then I can draw the rest of the way
If I get going early then I can keep the train rolling into more of what I need
broken dust
I did end up making a slimefoot and squee deck btw @misty geyser
broken dust
I ended up going less into saprolings though and more into resurrecting big beef
broken dust
Mhm!!!! I love red for this very reason! I think every deck I have besides bumbleflower is a red deck
misty geyser
So here’s my idea for the Speed Demon
I definitely need help on this because Mono Black and discard are both spaces I don’t usually touch
misty geyser
Oops wrong one
I’ll give it away: [[!defiler of vigor]] is in the deck as a win con
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
It is technically not wearing a shirt
dim heath
Lame
misty geyser
I knowwww
sharp garden
Very disappointed
misty geyser
Once I find a decent replacement it’ll be out
It would’ve been [[tyvar the pummeler]]
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Elf Warrior
Tap another untapped creature you control: Tyvar, the Pummeler gains indestructible until end of turn. Tap it.
: Creatures you control get +X/+X until end of turn, where X is the greatest power among creatures you control.
"They just keep coming and coming—perfect for my morning workout!"
3/3
dim heath
dim heath
Statues are dubious
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Right now it’s a thing of “well it’s a depiction of a sapient person being shirtless, due to their own volition or foisted upon them”
sharp garden
The Ass Creed set missed out on a statue of David card
misty geyser
Tbf I also want this to be as functional of a deck as possible
Oh! Speaking of which I’m sure there was stuff from recent sets…
Lemme do some digging
dim heath
grand hingeBOT
dim heath
misty geyser
is elesh norn topless?
Like - technically, I guess, but do we count her carapace as skin or as armor?
misty geyser
Nah dude is 100% topless
Like he’s got a leather strap, but
That’s not what I’d call a top
[[!doorkeeper thrull]]!
grand hingeBOT
sharp garden
He definitely blew his top. That's why he's throwing that other guy.
misty geyser
The “topless” tag is woefully underutilized in modern magic
I will be the arbiter of the tag
dim heath
Nah dude is 100% topless
Naw I mean as a land
dim heath
Another dubious one
misty geyser
Another dubious one
HMMMMMMMMMMM
I think this dubious of a choice in terms of art comes down to its function in the deck
dim heath
[[Ojer Axonil]] has a land on the back
misty geyser
And frankly I don’t think the function win:flavor loss ratio is high enough
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — God
Trample
If a red source you control would deal an amount of noncombat damage less than Ojer Axonil's power to an opponent, that source deals damage equal to Ojer Axonil's power instead.
When Ojer Axonil dies, return it to the battlefield tapped and transformed under its owner's control.
4/4
Temple of Power
Land
(Transforms from Ojer Axonil, Deepest Might.)
: Add 
.
, : Transform Temple of Power. Activate only if red sources you controlled dealt 4 or more noncombat damage this turn and only as a sorcery.
Chimil gave the Oltec passion. Ojer Axonil challenged them to harness it.
misty geyser
Hmmm
dim heath
But is possibly not good enough
dim heath
[[!Bridgeworks Battle]]
misty geyser
Hmmmmm
sharp garden
[[balduvian trading post]]
grand hingeBOT
Land
If Balduvian Trading Post would enter, sacrifice an untapped Mountain instead. If you do, put Balduvian Trading Post onto the battlefield. If you don't, put it into its owner's graveyard.
: Add .
, : Balduvian Trading Post deals 1 damage to target attacking creature.
sharp garden
Kinda sus, but no shirt
dim heath
misty geyser
Kinda sus, but no shirt
Oof might be way too weak for the deck
misty geyser
I like itttt
So I’m going through scryfall and adding Topless tags to new cards from last year - do we consider [[!vein ripper]] topless?
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
He’s definitely choosing not to wear a shirt
grand hingeBOT
Enchantment
If a creature you control would explore, instead you scry 1, then that creature explores.
When Twists and Turns enters, target creature you control explores.
When a land you control enters, if you control seven or more lands, transform Twists and Turns.
Mycoid Maze
Land — Cave
(Transforms from Twists and Turns.)
: Add .
, : Look at the top four cards of your library. You may reveal a creature card from among them and put that card into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.
dim heath
[[!Twists and Turns]]
grand hingeBOT
dim heath
misty geyser
That’s too much of a stretch 😂😂
dim heath
grand hingeBOT
dim heath
Horrendous and not fixing but
misty geyser
DANGIT
misty geyser
We have a better forest: the ones with Jace on them when he was in ixalan
dim heath
We have a better forest: the ones with Jace on them when he was in ixalan
Similar for other basics?
vital crescent
https://moxfield.com/decks/M3suZ2lItkCMerCcF0E-4w
I have been summoned
misty geyser
Ooh I like the assassin’s creed island
misty geyser
I have been summoned
Welcome!
vital crescent
So question, what are you doing in mono black. It seems split, like I legit think you have an underrated engine for discard outlet as your gonna hold cards to pitch at drawing 5 cards a turn with existing and max speed
misty geyser
So question, what are you doing in mono black. It seems split, like I legit thin...
Can you rephrase that?
It’s not clicking in my brain lol
vital crescent
Granted
frail flare
[[Speed demon]]?
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
Your max speed is 4, including draw you are getting 5 a turn
vital crescent
You have the standard black power houses, big mana it's known for ect.
I feel speed demon is a better use for self discard as your what turn 3 or 4 dropping waiting 3 ish turns for Max speed so turn 5 or 6 in magical land
My point is it's a slow grisselbrand. What are you doing in between and how are you maximizing the card access.
misty geyser
Oh, sure. I’ll be honest I don’t plan on even tracking speed until speed demon lands
vital crescent
Like I am a dirty rat player so my turns 2 to 4 are rats then exploiting the power or bodies
misty geyser
Just for my records - [[!jolly balloon man]] is shirtless
grand hingeBOT
vital crescent
Also why not run [[oppresion]] over bottomless pit you can off set the discard easy
grand hingeBOT
vital crescent
Also screws over rystic study lol
dim heath
dim heath
Also screws over rystic study lol
?
vital crescent
Spageti has no chest as they noodle?
dim heath
vital crescent
?
To many people don't pay for thier taxes in my pods and the rystic study player has no hard choices when they cast everything they have drawn. Yes they have options but they have less options
dim heath
misty geyser
Gamers it took me far too long but I have updated every set from January 2024-present I believe fits into the topless tag
It won’t update until tomorrow I don’t think
dim heath
If far too long is less than a day then 
misty geyser
Also why not run [[oppresion]] over bottomless pit you can off set the discard e...
Both are in the list I’m fairly sure
dim heath
I just spent an hour and a half looking at every land you might be able to run
misty geyser
If far too long is less than a day then <:shrug:1329060138824241206>
I have been spending the last hour and a half staring at magic arts searching for shirtless people
Lmao
Nice
Added gnottvold
vital crescent
Both are in the list I’m fairly sure
You are correct
dim heath
Only 1041 topless options? Lame
Made a Scryfall account so I could fix tags on stuff that annoys me
Lol
misty geyser
Made a Scryfall account so I could fix tags on stuff that annoys me
That’s how they got me too
you have to donate $10 to get access to editing tags but you get it forever and it’s honestly so worth
sharp garden
[[gaea's touch]] is shirtless
grand hingeBOT
Enchantment
: You may put a basic Forest card from your hand onto the battlefield. Activate only as a sorcery and only once each turn.
Sacrifice Gaea's Touch: Add .
misty geyser
When you get pissed off because TONS of cards are missing tags
dim heath
When you get pissed off because TONS of cards are missing tags
I am not sure if I want to make a tag for gold border or just hold out hope they will do so for border search
misty geyser
Could always join the scryfall discord and ask!
dim heath
Could always join the scryfall discord and ask!
Where
misty geyser
https://moxfield.com/decks/exmqp-Hm9kmDdEEdcxVn8g
@sharp garden here was the list from when she was spoiled I think?
sharp garden
No blood artist, hallelujah
misty geyser
I could’ve run it
But eh
It’s one I’ve liked forever and wanted to try again, potentially with [[alesha|fdn]]
grand hingeBOT
sharp garden
Yeah, Alesha sounds very strong
misty geyser
At the very least she’d be in the 99 but I want to find a way to make her as a deck
Nothing is coming to mind that’s like, really satisfying though
broken dust
Omg I’m debating really hard between alesha and [[evereth viceroy of plunder]]
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Vampire Soldier
Flying
Sacrifice another creature or artifact: Put a +1/+1 counter on Evereth, Viceroy of Plunder. If the sacrificed permanent was a Treasure, Evereth gains lifelink until end of turn. Activate only as a sorcery.
When Evereth dies, you may pay 
. When you do, Evereth deals damage equal to its power to each opponent.
2/2
misty geyser
Omg I’m debating really hard between alesha and [[evereth viceroy of plunder]]
Well, whichever one you choose the other one is solid in the 99
broken dust
Ik!!! I really wanna pick up [[Rev tithe extractor]] but she is pretty pricey
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Rogue
Whenever you attack, target creature gains deathtouch until end of turn.
Whenever one or more creatures you control deal combat damage to a player, create a Treasure token, then look at the top card of that player's library and exile it face down. You may cast that card for as long as it remains exiled. (A Treasure token is an artifact with ", Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any color.")
3/3
grand hingeBOT
broken dust
I’m not actually super familiar with the new aetherdrift stuff I gotta familiarize myself
sharp garden
Loving the cards that incentivize combat
misty geyser
Loving the cards that incentivize combat
Especially combat not directed at you 😉
broken dust
Goad is the goat
sharp garden
"soft" goad, if you will, is more likely to go under the radar too
Because you aren't making anyone do anything, just rewarding people for hitting someone other than you.
misty geyser
[[breena]] my beloved
grand hingeBOT
hushed tapir
[[breena]] my beloved
DFT Gonti goes in her 99, yeah?
misty geyser
DFT Gonti goes in her 99, yeah?
If I still had the deck, 100%
craggy owl
Good ol’ Breena. My backup option to Tevesh & Tymna if my opponents seem cool enough to play with but hail from Weenie Hut Jr.
misty geyser
I liked Breena more than tymna/x orzhov shenanigans because of the +1/+1 counters
But yeah tevesh szat is a drug
misty geyser
@hushed furnace you’re experienced in discard, mind taking a look at this list?
misty geyser
God, it’s still 80 deg in my office and I’m in the same boat
Which i know, first world problem
But still sucks, especially since it’s like 40 outside
hushed furnace
[[Waste not]]
grand hingeBOT
Enchantment
Whenever an opponent discards a creature card, create a 2/2 black Zombie creature token.
Whenever an opponent discards a land card, add 
.
Whenever an opponent discards a noncreature, nonland card, draw a card.
misty geyser
Shoot, i thought i added that
hushed furnace
Maybe [[dark deal]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Ooh, that’s a good combo for sure
And still technically discard by number
Wonder if I should run OBM…
hushed furnace
I can understand why not, since they're single target spells, but it just seems odd not seeing [[inquisition of kozilek]] or [[wrench mind]] here
hushed furnace
Or [[Duress]]
grand hingeBOT
hushed furnace
They just can't hang in commander.
sharp garden
Discard 👀
misty geyser
I can understand why not, since they're single target spells, but it just seems ...
Yeah, if they had like “each opponent reveals” that’d be cool
hushed furnace
Its why I use [[zevlor]] to scratch my discard itch in commander
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Tiefling Warrior
Haste
, : When you next cast an instant or sorcery spell that targets only a single opponent or a single permanent an opponent controls this turn, for each other opponent, choose that player or a permanent they control, copy that spell, and the copy targets the chosen player or permanent.
4/2
misty geyser
Triple inquisition seems pretty dope
hushed furnace
Or the time I split jeska's will and ruinous ultimatum on the same turn.
hushed furnace
Yeah. It was that good
dim heath
God, it’s still 80 deg in my office and I’m in the same boat
80°C? You must be literally cooking alive.
craggy owl
A lot of my peak discard additions is stuff in black and another color... Sire of Insanity to eliminate hands and protect Vaevictis as an example.
Or its something like Sheoldred who hogs the spotlight by herself.
misty geyser
Gamers I’m curious of a couple rule zero commanders.
[[geyadrone dihada]] and [[jund ‘em out]]
misty geyser
Geyadrone would honestly just be control with a pile of my favorite grixis cards.
Jund ‘em out would pretty much be just that - hardcore jund midrange
dense wadi
Rule 0ing a sorcery is new territory to me
grand hingeBOT
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Warlock
Double strike
Magecraft — Whenever you cast or copy an instant or sorcery spell, return target nonlegendary creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
"Join me for the dawn of a new age."
2/4
Awaken the Blood Avatar 
Sorcery
As an additional cost to cast this spell, you may sacrifice any number of creatures. This spell costs less to cast for each creature sacrificed this way.
Each opponent sacrifices a creature of their choice. Create a 3/6 black and red Avatar creature token with haste and "Whenever this creature attacks, it deals 3 damage to each opponent."
dense wadi
Would you basically be casting it, then retracing it then letting it go command zone to cast again with tax
misty geyser
Would you basically be casting it, then retracing it then letting it go command ...
You can retrace multiple times
I’d basically just retrace it until it gets exiled
ebon minnowBOT
dense wadi
Fair enough
misty geyser
Yeah! I just thought it’d be an actually fun idea for jund
dense wadi
I like the Dihada angle but I like Grixis in general
misty geyser
I just really like dihada in general lol
dense wadi
For Jund Em Out it’s an interesting idea, curious what it would look like in the end
misty geyser
Basically a lot of mulch, if I had to guess. Or card draw
dense wadi
I just really like dihada in general lol
I have a partially built deck commanded by her other version so I get it
misty geyser
And have Lord Windgrace as the backup commander
hushed tapir
Retrace is cracked
sharp garden
I think I've run Six since release, and have never used retrace from it
misty geyser
Here’s what I got so far for Dihada
I need more targeted removal, but grixis targeted removal eludes me
Like what’s the best stuff
dense wadi
Well there’s the three charms as a basic start
Crosis, Grixis and Maestros
Also Dreadbore, Terminate and to a lesser extent Bedevil
dim heath
I think neither is offensive but I tend to be in support of allowing as much as possible.
craggy owl
I need more targeted removal, but grixis targeted removal eludes me
Kaervek the Merciless and Magmatic Force
😏
misty geyser
True
broken dust
@misty geyser any of your bracket levels for your decks surprise you?
dense wadi
That sounds about right tho
Considering the high power people are shooting for turn 3-5
frail flare
From everything I'd heard of peoples estimates at high, they try to have high be reliably by t5/t6
So yeah, a 2 is right
If you want to get higher, slot in MLD 😆
I'm mostly joking, but I have a mono-red stax list that has decree of annihilation in it and that's the only ranked card and it was a 4.
broken dust
Behold [Neheb](https://moxfield.com/decks/geKRz25e4U24PmRUsxCUOg), a 2.
Samess… my rakdos is apparently a 2 while it cheats out big ass eldrazi.
sharp garden
My decks are all 5 😎
craggy owl
My decks are all 5 😎
Congrats Goku, you get fight the villain and keep us all alive!
sharp garden
Sure, see ya in 25 episodes
sharp garden
Oh I said that thinking 5 was the low end lmao
dense wadi
Oh I said that thinking 5 was the low end lmao
welcome back yamcha
sharp garden
😭
misty geyser
Simic took another win today! It was just a single 3 man commander game, but copying planeswalkers with sixth doc is extremely gross
I coped and flipped one drop Tamiyo
Which bought me back [[ezuri’s predation]] and made me the mana to cast it
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Usually you just win after that
misty geyser
I’m getting the itch to build edric. I might try to do some kind of equipment shenanigans with him
misty geyser
So gamers
I’m turning shirtless men from thrasios/bruse into thrasios/kraum
Losing white, I don’t actually lose all that much
And it lets me try to focus more on game winners, and the card advantage given by Kraum is very worth
craggy owl
and Kraum is shirtless
misty geyser
Yeeeeee he’s in the list I think, at least before he went to the command zone
dim heath
[[Kraum]]
grand hingeBOT
dim heath
[[Kraum o:partner]]
grand hingeBOT
grand hingeBOT
dim heath
[[Kraum, Ludevic's Opus]]
grand hingeBOT
dim heath
Proof that Opus is a puffin, not a penguin.
You lost StP? OMG
Keeper of Keys feels a bit dubious
As does Tyvar
I guess if you have the promo, Tyvar can be legit
Some red cards that could be considerations:
Kazuul
Heartless Hidetsugu
Ogre Battledriver
Yusri, Fortune's Flame
Rage Reflection
misty geyser
You lost StP? OMG
Yeah I lose stp but I’m not terribly worried there.
I just want the commanders to be more relevant lol
craggy owl
Yusri is a fun one even as a standalone draw engine. 2.5~ cards per turn is nice.
misty geyser
[[yusri flame]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
I made some changes to Simic
Basically removing the <=2 mv ramp and adding more 4mv ramp to abuse the consistent t2 ramp spell in the cz, and also replacing some of the less useful cards found via testing with more fun simic commanders
craggy owl
Love seeing prime speaker zeganna.
misty geyser
Love seeing prime speaker zeganna.
I’ve come to realize that the ETB draw a billion cards kind cards are actually insane in my decks
Tishana is basically me saying “okay I’m winning in a couple turns”
craggy owl
Yep. The “draw equal to power/toughness/# of creatures/# of cards in hand” effects are amazing reloads.
[[$Tishana, Voice of Thunder]]
grand hingeBOT
craggy owl
Forgot she had precon reprints tank the price. If she’ll end up above the bottom 5 bombs of my UGx decks I should pick her up.
misty geyser
Forgot she had precon reprints tank the price. If she’ll end up above the botto...
She’s also a completely underestimated beatstick. She makes your hand huge and also is a humongous beater as a result
and
Gives no max hand size
So imagine having 5 creatures, drawing 6 cards when you cast her and copy with 6th doc, then the original resolves and drawing 7 for a total of 13 cards
For 7 mana that’s a steal
craggy owl
Yep, that’s similar to when I’ve resolved Keruga.
misty geyser
Yeah keruga is basically the same thing
craggy owl
The nice thing about Tishana and Keruga being doubled is that it makes playing them in less ideal situations still worthwhile.
misty geyser
Yeah. Even just a couple hits to draw off them is still worth the 5/7 mana
Once you cast them after popping off even a little you’re extremely likely to hit your gas
I’ve kind of encountered a combo in my deck too, where I either cast [[Kodama east tree]] with sixth doc out or copy him with Sakashima, then anything that draws on creature/land ETBs lets me churn through my deck on the spot
grand hingeBOT
craggy owl
Alright, I can probably drop something like Ohran Frostfang for Tishana in my Susan & Sixth list. Burst draw has done better for me lately than steady & incremental.
misty geyser
Alright, I can probably drop something like Ohran Frostfang for Tishana in my Su...
The big seller for tishana, for me, is that she also gives no max hand size so the burst draw sticks around
It lets you hold up a counterspell
craggy owl
Yep. I’m looking at cutting Keruga or Tishana.
Bleh, not Keruga
Nor tishana who isn’t in yet
What happened to my brain
craggy owl
This is where I’m glad I have an Excel file for deciding what to cut when I get smoothie brained.
misty geyser
The Deck History tool on moxfield has been a godsend for me
It lets me roll back a whole flurry of changes if I’m not liking a direction I took the deck
craggy owl
Spoilers: maybe more “draw equal to greatest power” effects in an upcoming precon.
craggy owl
Somewhat borrowing from your list, I'm adding Bonny Pall to my Susan & 6th deck as well.
First step was deciding that if I use a formula to add cards to a deck but the formula doesn't support a card, change the formula!
I changed the expected # of turns cards would stick around in play so that burst draw would be favored over draw engines, and hopefully that makes it easier to gain advantage between all the different forms of mass bounce.
misty geyser
I changed the expected # of turns cards would stick around in play so that burst...
Yeah, the immediate draw is insane from bonny pall, and the huge beater is great to boot
craggy owl
Also realized the nonlegendary tokens have synergy with Season of Weaving.
misty geyser
Also realized the nonlegendary tokens have synergy with Season of Weaving.
[[season of weaving]]
grand hingeBOT
Sorcery
Choose up to five 
worth of modes. You may choose the same mode more than once.
— Draw a card.
— Choose an artifact or creature you control. Create a token that's a copy of it.
— Return each nonland, nontoken permanent to its owner's hand.
misty geyser
Trueeee, I need to find a slot for both in mine
craggy owl
My only gripe about Season of Weaving is that it can’t clear out the tchotchke piles other mass bounce eliminates, but in UG that’s child’s play thanks to the rest of the arsenal.
misty geyser
My only gripe about Season of Weaving is that it can’t clear out the tchotchke p...
True, including season. What wipes for noncreatures do you recommend? Big bonus points if it’s on a historic spell
craggy owl
Technically Koma, Cosmos Serpent for disabling activated abilities of noncreature permanents such as planeswalkers and artifacts. Then there’s Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and his -X to clear out everything but artifacts.
Getting to the non-historic: Bane of Progress & Season of Gathering in green. Blue is more focused on mass bounce to make opponents spend time replaying cards rather than using them.
Kogla, Titan Ape isn’t a wipe but two Kogla (thanks to being historic) to fight on etb and then smash two artifacts/enchantments puts in work.
misty geyser
*Technically* Koma, Cosmos Serpent for disabling activated abilities of noncreat...
Hmmm those are good shouts
craggy owl
Oh!
misty geyser
I like ugin, should probably slot him in
craggy owl
Also for general war crimes that will eliminate players in the context of 6th
Ulamog, the Defiler.
Two ulamogs probably have annihilator 7 or higher each. 28+ power at someone and making them sacrifice 14+ permanents = dead.
Hopefully whoever gets hit by the cast trigger auto-loses the grind game, so even if the table does an Avengers reenactment there will be one player down in the long run.
misty geyser
https://moxfield.com/decks/soCko8LiDESHAqCjXcbi8Q
anyone wanna give this list a look and lemme know what they think?
frail flare
Not going to try to meld mishra?
I like the stronghold rats here, even if they're fragile.
misty geyser
Not going to try to meld mishra?
Not really, the dragon engine is just fine iirc
Hmmm
I guess I could reanimate it
I also should look more into wheels than regular draw
Thoughts on better wheel effects to use, bonus points if on a body?
frail flare
[[magus of the wheel]] is the obvious one
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Human Wizard
, , Sacrifice this creature: Each player discards their hand, then draws seven cards.
"Fate is not as fixed as you might think."
3/3
misty geyser
Oh true
frail flare
[[ogre headed helm]] isn't a full wheel
grand hingeBOT
Artifact Creature — Equipment Ogre
Equipped creature gets +2/+2.
Whenever this creature or equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may sacrifice it. If you do, discard your hand, then draw three cards.
Reconfigure (: Attach to target creature you control; or unattach from a creature. Reconfigure only as a sorcery. While attached, this isn't a creature.)
2/2
frail flare
I'm also a fan of [[connect the dots]]
grand hingeBOT
Enchantment
Whenever a creature you control attacks, exile the top card of your library face down. (You can't look at it.)
, Discard your hand, Sacrifice this enchantment: Put all cards exiled with this enchantment into their owners' hands.
"How could I have missed it? The answer was right in front of me all along!"
misty geyser
Same! Card is super cool
frail flare
Makes all your creatures bomats
dense wadi
I assume [[dragon mage]] would be overdoing it
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
It's kind of at a different point in the game for Alesha, but not impossible to reanimate.
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Artifact
Spells your opponents cast cost more to cast.
At the beginning of your end step, each opponent loses 1 life.
A dictator's infuriating smirk, an affront to everything Ravnica stood for.
frail flare
Yep
frail flare
I have it in Bello so I'm probably not the person to ask
sharp garden
Replace all your friends with statues
craggy owl
[[god pharaoh’s statue]] in susan//6th
Yep.
(I know Mxkale beat me to it, but yep.)
GPS is the one Susan & 6th inclusion from my Excel file that made me question if I should really go there.
misty geyser
Oh, btw @craggy owl, would you mind taking a look at my Alesha list? Graveyard shenanigans are most definitely not my jam so any help is great. Got some great advice from mxkale and aida
But more eyes can’t hurt
craggy owl
I’ll take a look after some work meetings, coffee, and morning financials.
misty geyser
No rush!
frail flare
(I know Mxkale beat me to it, but yep.)
I mean, I said i couldn't answer it. I don't think it makes anyone bad and in Bello it at least helps beat opponents to death.
misty geyser
@dense wadi tbh I think I should just give Coram another try. He didn’t get a fair shake when I did it before
dense wadi
That’s fair
misty geyser
(Didn’t wanna clog up the chat with my whinging lol)
dense wadi
No worries
I know you’ve been struggling and it seems like it’s maybe been worse lately
So I figured maybe some examination of the roots might help
misty geyser
well, that’s more life stuff bleeding into magic than the other way around but
dense wadi
Well I wasn’t discounting that might be the case but I wouldn’t assume or pry
misty geyser
but yeah when it comes to Jund midrange, I just really liked that it always had to work for its wins but it grinded value so hard that it could win by attrition
Like the deck could absolutely win without Goyf imo
And Coram means that to me by giving me insane amounts of card advantage
And also potentially providing a beater, though I know that would just make me a target
So I’m thinking along the lines of some kind of cheap ramp package that scales into mid size beaters that accrue card advantage that deploy after the game has come to a halt save for me grinding value
dense wadi
There’s probably a few angles/commanders one could use for that kind of playstyle but Coram is well suited for it
misty geyser
I’m thinking I’ll need to run a lot of board wipes in this deck
Especially ones i can sculpt where possible
I’m thinking it’ll also need a decent discard package to keep my opponents from maintaining value engines
dense wadi
Especially ones i can sculpt where possible
[[mandate of abaddon]] type stuff?
grand hingeBOT
dense wadi
Ofc
misty geyser
I was also thinking [[dread cacodemon]] and [[in garruk’s wake]]
misty geyser
[[bane of progress]]
grand hingeBOT
dense wadi
[[grim gigantosaurus]] is in a reminiscent vein, being a board wipe that leaves you with something
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Dinosaur
: Monstrosity 10. This ability costs less to activate for each creature with power 4 or greater your opponents control. (If this creature isn't monstrous, put ten +1/+1 counters on it and it becomes monstrous.)
When this creature becomes monstrous, destroy all artifacts and creatures other than this creature.
10/10
dense wadi
https://scryfall.com/card/cma/55/dread-cacodemon
Love me some dread Cacodemon
misty geyser
I like grim gigantosaurus
I don’t like paying 12 mana
And for some reason that tends to happen for me
19 in total for it
dense wadi
Suppose that’s table dependent
That 12 can go down a lot
Leaving you with a 20/20 on it’s own
But raw yeah, it’s a lot of mana
Probably overthinking it but [[redshift]] or Agatha and her cauldron could be funny with it
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Goblin Pilot
Vigilance
: Add X mana of any one color, where X is Redshift's power. Spend this mana only to activate abilities.
Exhaust — : Put any number of permanent cards from your hand onto the battlefield. (Activate each exhaust ability only once.)
2/3
misty geyser
Here’s what I got so far
I need more ramp, but I want to keep it lands based so board wipes hurt me less
And ideally 2 mana so I can curve into coram
But after rampant growth, nature’s lore and 3 visits I’m pretty well out of ideas there
I guess I can do aftermath analyst and Big Bear
sharp garden
Should 100% do [[bramble familiar]]
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Elemental Raccoon
: Add .
, , Discard a card: Return this creature to its owner's hand.
2/2
Fetch Quest 
Sorcery — Adventure
Mill seven cards. Then put a creature, enchantment, or land card from among the milled cards onto the battlefield.
sharp garden
not land ramp, but the 🐐
misty geyser
Should 100% do [[bramble familiar]]
I considered the dorks, but like
They just die to a board wipe
sharp garden
Honestly, he's more than a dork
misty geyser
I was trying to maximize resilience, but you might be right
sharp garden
Fetch quest is crazy
craggy owl
I endorse Bramble Familiar
And Umaru knows how much I avoid dorks due to wipes/clasms
sharp garden
I think I'm gonna ask bramble familiar to be my steady
misty geyser
And Umaru knows how much I avoid dorks due to wipes/clasms
Pontiff stamp of approval is enough for me
misty geyser
I think I'm gonna ask bramble familiar to be my steady
Crazy work
misty geyser
I also endorse Shigeki, Jukai Visionary
Thoughts on living death effects?
craggy owl
I'll think about it
misty geyser
Was thinking bringer of the last gift
craggy owl
Reading this and watching toddler rn
misty geyser
No sweat!
craggy owl
Test Bringer, I'm optimistic about it but don't have a deck for it myself
misty geyser
Will do
sharp garden
Would you want [[out of the tombs]]?
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Hmm
sharp garden
It gets a lot of stuff in your gy
sharp garden
Yeah, fair
misty geyser
So mass milling may be a lot of advantage, but only for one card a turn
Thoughts on [[season of loss]]?
grand hingeBOT
Sorcery
Choose up to five worth of modes. You may choose the same mode more than once.
— Each player sacrifices a creature of their choice.
— Draw a card for each creature that died under your control this turn.
— Each opponent loses X life, where X is the number of creature cards in your graveyard.
craggy owl
Yeah.
craggy owl
I’ve considered it for some of my lists where planeswalkers are in the cz or the commander makes tokens.
If it really were a mini decree of pain that’d be epic.
sharp garden
[[heartless conscription]]
grand hingeBOT
sharp garden
wtf that's cool as hell
misty geyser
Problem creature? Not any more
Now its your opponent’s problem
(Because you’re casting it)
craggy owl
Then there’s their cousins, Call Forth the Tempest and Ezuri’s Predation.
misty geyser
Ohh right lemme add those rq
sharp garden
Unrelated, but breach the multiverse?
craggy owl
By some miracle I haven’t moved off of Vaevictis for Jund yet, even though I simp hard for those four 8-drop sorceries everywhere else.
misty geyser
I think I need to chill on the 8+ drops
craggy owl
I have a really fucking high curve rn lol
How many lands + ramp rn?
sharp garden
I just love high cmc flashy spells lmao
misty geyser
https://moxfield.com/decks/KzTxzHT21EyO6ELrQKQxsA
deck is tagged
I’m thinking 38-40 lands
I most certainly need more targeted removal
Thinking I drop malfegor and add in something else
sharp garden
As far as targeted removal goes, assassin's trophy is good eh
craggy owl
The nice thing about “noisy” low cost commanders is how they can steer the game while ramp & draw sets up the large spells.
misty geyser
True
craggy owl
You could run Vaevictis in the 99 for targeted removal.
dense wadi
I’m still a fan of season of loss honestly
misty geyser
You could run Vaevictis in the 99 for targeted removal.
I am in fact doing so
sharp garden
Moxfield not auto-updating smh
misty geyser
Or at least notifying you that it’s outdated
craggy owl
I am in fact doing so
“Poggers” as the kids say.
sharp garden
wtf, I should get that Bringer of the Last Gift alt art
misty geyser
Yeah it’s sick as hell
misty geyser
So I have 13 <=2mv ramp spells
craggy owl
So I have 13 <=2mv ramp spells
You’ll average 1.0505 by your eighth card drawn, and 0.9191 by your seventh.
craggy owl
0.9898 in the opening 7
Average one or greater achieved on your first draw step
2 lands + rock = easy mulligan for t3 Coram
misty geyser
I’m hoping for 3 lands ideally but 2 and a rock is also fine
craggy owl
40 lands = you’re fine
misty geyser
That’s my thinking
craggy owl
On average you’ll make your first four land drops with just draw steps
misty geyser
Now to get the fixing down, ugh
craggy owl
Add two coram triggers and you’ll average seeing 5.6565 lands from your own deck t5
Note that doesn’t include opponents’ decks, which you can chalk off as a 1/3rd chance of seeing one per opponent.
sharp garden
Yeah, his ability provides a lot of card advantage
misty geyser
Note that doesn’t include opponents’ decks, which you can chalk off as a 1/3rd c...
Yeah, I always forget about my opponent’s cards
sharp garden
Forgot you could play opponent's lands 
misty geyser
Yep
Oh!
Speaking of
I should run exploration effects
So I can play one from an opp’s yard and one of my own spells
[[coram]]
grand hingeBOT
sharp garden
It's still play
misty geyser
Yep
sharp garden
Oh I see what you mean
craggy owl
Exploration: play one land from hand, one land from Coram’s trigger.
misty geyser
That too
craggy owl
Plus you have a high enough land count that Exploration could work in the ramp slots.
misty geyser
I can play one from the yard, one from hand and still have enough juice from his ability to cast a spell
craggy owl
I bully some people for just getting next turn’s land drop out this turn and missing it next turn with Exploration.
misty geyser
I mean
That is still one mana you’re ahead on
Because it came down a turn earlier
craggy owl
Right, but if there isn't a land next turn it ends up being the same effect as a ritual.
misty geyser
True
craggy owl
Do you trust enough combat at your tables to use Curse of Opulence in a ramp slot?
misty geyser
Hmmmmm
I mean
I trust my combat step a lot
And my friends are also pretty aggro pilled
They also know not to feed me free shit so I’d say 50/50
misty geyser
Some spicy tech I’m gonna test: [[season of the witch]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
forcing people to go to combat with their creatures
sharp garden
Oh that's interesting
misty geyser
Oh shoot!!!
I forgot dread cacodemon doesn’t play nice with coram
Neither does reiver demon nor deathbringer regent
[[angrath flame chained]] it is
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Any planeswalkers that are particularly good here?
[[chandra torch of defiance]] is always solid
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Planeswalker — Chandra
+1: Exile the top card of your library. You may cast that card. If you don't, Chandra deals 2 damage to each opponent.
+1: Add .
−3: Chandra deals 4 damage to target creature.
−7: You get an emblem with "Whenever you cast a spell, this emblem deals 5 damage to any target."
Loyalty: 4
misty geyser
One of the domri’s could be good
Oh! Grist!!
Duh!
Liliana, Death’s majesty “draws” two cards a turn
Lord windgrace is good ramp
Minsc and boo
sharp garden
Yeah, seems like a lot of good options.
misty geyser
I went with grist, angrath, windgrace, and minsc & boo
Oh, and professor onyx
I had Lili of the veil in there already
craggy owl
Neither does reiver demon nor deathbringer regent
Reiver Demon spares Coram, Deathbringer doesn’t.
Oh wait
The “when etbs if cast from hand”
Derp
sharp garden
I like professor onyx a lot
misty geyser
I like professor onyx a lot
It’s like death’s majesty but does a lot more
sharp garden
Dreadhorde general is also good
The mkore I play with the lilianas, the more I want to make a liliana focused deck lmao
misty geyser
Lili is just so good
dense wadi
there's certainly a lot of material
craggy owl
OH!
I have an idea
Brb pouring whiskey and pulling up scryfall
[[!Kagemaro, First to Suffer]]
grand hingeBOT
craggy owl
So its ability that defines the p/t applies in all zones, meaning Kagemaro in the graveyard causes Coram’s power to be equal to hand size.
This is also cheaper to play than Reiver Demon/Deathbringer etc.
misty geyser
So its ability that defines the p/t applies in all zones, meaning Kagemaro in th...
I don’t really care too much about the power of coram, I mostly just want him surviving combat
frail flare
[[Coram]]
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
I would use redundant mill effects because he doesn't need to have attacked to be able to cast
[[Kagha]] for example
grand hingeBOT
tired wind
Kagha is cool
frail flare
[[hedge shredder]] is another I'd recommend.
grand hingeBOT
sharp garden
Hedge shredder is 🐐
craggy owl
@umaru looking up your shirtless men tribal list because someone asked when I mentioned how to minmax b1.
misty geyser
@umaru looking up your shirtless men tribal list because someone asked when I me...
Hell yeah
Minmaxing bracket 1 would probably still be more powerful than shirtless men, probably something with a naturally stronger art theme
Like “abs”
That’d likely include a lot of people that have depictions of abs, or abs on animals perhaps.
So a bigger card pool
craggy owl
The snippet that inspired it
Before this was an argument about brackets being bad because people would just minmax all of them, with the person writing off the intended experience of each bracket “subjective and flowery language”.
Here’s to hoping this gets the deck more likes on Moxfield.
misty geyser
Here’s to hoping this gets the deck more likes on Moxfield.
Hell yeah! Is this a public discord? I’m probably already in it if so and would be happy to pop in
craggy owl
It’s the ||Official MTG discord||.
craggy owl
Hahahahahaha
misty geyser
Maybe entice them to give it a like for me, yeah? Oh, and mention it’s in major overhaul mode
craggy owl
Will do
misty geyser
Thank you!!
Love when people have a good reference for a b1 deck anyway
Which is funny since it’s technically b2
But it is very much in spirit a b1
misty geyser
So I’m cooking up an idea with the new Narset.
I want to take advantage of her wheeling ability
Here’s what I got so far
But I’m not sure of the big typical payoffs in wheels/drawing x cards in one turn
Maybe I’m trying to do too much
misty geyser
Another idea I had was an impulse draw deck
Discard all 0 cards in your hand, draw for as many cards as you casted
dense wadi
If it’s in colors I always like to rec [[war doctor]] for impulse draw synergy
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
Discard all 0 cards in your hand, draw for as many cards as you casted
This was my general thought but cheerios
I don't feel like she's really a draw-go
You might like [[library of leng]] here. The discard isn't a cost right?
grand hingeBOT
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Warrior
Lifelink
At the beginning of your end step, you may pay 
. If you do, draw X cards. X can't be greater than the amount of life you gained this turn.
Shanna had heard Sisay's legend all her life. Now it was time to forge her own.
3/3
misty geyser
I don't feel like she's really a draw-go
Oh, no she certainly isn’t draw go
frail flare
I'm just wondering if there's a way to capitalize on that with phasing
hushed tapir
You might like [[library of leng]] here. The discard isn't a cost right?
library of leng MY GOAT
but also Umaru - leng absolutely works with narset - if you want to keep any cards you can put them on top
hushed tapir
But I’m not sure of the big typical payoffs in wheels/drawing x cards in one tur...
this is my old wheels/cycling deck that I had a couple of years ago - maybe you'll find some inspiration from it? https://moxfield.com/decks/olTwAuaDq0eW_V1N3vQKCg
misty geyser
Update, by the way!
I built the Coram deck
And tbh I had a lot of fun with the maiden voyage of it
It played control well enough, and it even had a moment where I topdecked just the right answer for a board I was against which was awesome
I squeaked out the win with it in a really satisfying way
I will keep testing and getting a feel for it
broken dust
Ooooo
misty geyser
So ive found a problem that i sort of encountered the last time i tried making a jund deck: the deck wheelspins very hard
It has very little in the way of pushing for a win, and the curve feels too high for how impactful it actually is
I might add in [[Defiler of vigor]] for the win condition
grand hingeBOT
Creature — Phyrexian Wurm
Trample
As an additional cost to cast green permanent spells, you may pay 2 life. Those spells cost less to cast if you paid life this way. This effect reduces only the amount of green mana you pay.
Whenever you cast a green permanent spell, put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control.
6/6
misty geyser
I’m also thinking of adding in [[korvold fae cursed]] for the extra draw and a big flying beater
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
One option I've seen with Coram is like lure cards?
Lure cards and creatures.
Either ones so that your creatures are boardwipes or ones that mean you push damage through.
misty geyser
Hmm
frail flare
[[anzrag the quake mole]] etc.
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Mole God
Whenever Anzrag becomes blocked, untap each creature you control. After this phase, there is an additional combat phase.
: Anzrag must be blocked each combat this turn if able.
His claws tear at the foundations of civilization.
8/4
frail flare
[[lure]]
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
[[grothama]] [[treeshaker chimera]] etc.
frail flare
It is, but I'm saying it's how I've seen people push damage
Or just flat out make coram unblockable
misty geyser
Fair
frail flare
With [[alpha authority]] style effects + "everyone has menace"
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Hm
frail flare
Jund combat you're making combat unfair and/or making it clear things are expendable
misty geyser
@craggy owl mind taking a look at the current iteration of my jund list? It feels like it spins its wheels without ever presenting a board state that’s big enough to win off of
craggy owl
Alrighty, gives me something to do before the last flight home
misty geyser
I do also play against some decently aggro tables, think Bello, Morophon Avatar typal, Kyler, etc
craggy owl
Worst case I look at this sometime soon, just learned I’m stuck at one bar and uncooperative airport wifi.
misty geyser
It’s no stress!
frail flare
<@456226577798135808> mind taking a look at the current iteration of my jund lis...
Is this just for Pontiff's opinion or in general open for response?
misty geyser
Is this just for Pontiff's opinion or in general open for response?
Open for response
I find myself drawing a lot of ramp and lands for some reason
frail flare
I think you need to give up on the opponent discard or commit to it more.
If it's not one that's symmetrical then it isn't helping with your graveyard plan as much and it's more annoying than anything else.
misty geyser
I just kinda see it as removal
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
I don't know that [[quilled greatwurm]] works int his deck.
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
You don't have a lot of counters.
misty geyser
Tbh it is a beatstick, remove-now-or-die kinda thing
I have it in Muerra to great effect
It basically just continually doubles the power of your creatures
frail flare
Mm. I'm trying to find the right thread because the best I'm getting is the head and heart are wrong and that's not a coherent answer.
misty geyser
Like, the deck is sorta kinda goodstuff. But more focus on goodstuff creatures that can swing in too.
frail flare
Like, it's mostly right, but Coram just feels like he wants to swing in and make opponents regret every choice they make
misty geyser
Right
misty geyser
Is it too cute to run [[uurg spawn]]?
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Frog Beast
Uurg's power is equal to the number of land cards in your graveyard.
At the beginning of your upkeep, surveil 1. (Look at the top card of your library. You may put that card into your graveyard.)
, Sacrifice a land: You gain 2 life.
*/5
misty geyser
i feel like he’s a pretty good beater that also gives card advantage
frail flare
I've been looking at him
fyi I'm trying to figure out how to better articulate my issues by poking at the list: https://moxfield.com/decks/EkydFVB3fUGDuyeaXoX-Eg
I also keep thinking of suggesting [[kroxa|tbd]] or [[braids, arisen nightmare]]
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Elder Giant
When Kroxa enters, sacrifice it unless it escaped.
Whenever Kroxa enters or attacks, each opponent discards a card, then each opponent who didn't discard a nonland card this way loses 3 life.
Escape—, Exile five other cards from your graveyard. (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its escape cost.)
6/6
misty geyser
I mean I don’t really plan to sacrifice my board much
I had braids in there already
Kroxa is a good idea
Cheap discard that turns into a cheaper beater
frail flare
[[sivriss]] is one that was what I had as an alternate for braids
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Creature — Snake Cleric Warlock
, Sacrifice another creature or an artifact: For each opponent, you mill a card, then return that card from your graveyard to your hand unless that player pays 3 life. (To mill a card, put the top card of your library into your graveyard.)
Choose a Background (You can have a Background as a second commander.)
3/3
frail flare
So, sac like a thrull or some other token, mill 3, then opponents get to choose if they lose 3 on each one
misty geyser
Thing is though, I don’t really make tokens that often in this deck
Usually I find myself with a few 5 drops
One card that sacrifices but I was considering for the deck, however, is [[korvold fae cursed]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
since he makes himself bigger and my fetchlands draw me cards
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Ravenous ride went crazy in Coram before
frail flare
I did add the original [[old rutstein]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
If you have a decent size creature, you just saddle gitrog w/ coram and sac, and he easily pays his own commander tax
frail flare
he's just been good value when I run him in a midrange that cares about the graveyard.
misty geyser
I did add the original [[old rutstein]]
He just seems so low impact
I had considered him
frail flare
[[rampant frogantua]] is the other addition
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Again, another one I considered
frail flare
[[reaver cleaver]] from the original deck might also be worth bringing back
grand hingeBOT
Legendary Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 and has trample and "Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player or planeswalker, create that many Treasure tokens."
Equip
misty geyser
I should give him another shot
frail flare
So yeah, what I have is 100 cards now in there. I cut: M&B, Windgrace, Uurg, gsz, exploration and fertile ground. Though I was close on suggesting soul of windgrace
frail flare
It is, but I thought you might want to keep M&B more
But it being able to take opponents' lands is huge
misty geyser
M&B is another one of those “answer me now” cards
misty geyser
But it being able to take opponents' lands is huge
Tbh for me it’s just been looping fetches
Why no GSZ out of curiosity
frail flare
[[screeching scorchbeast]] is one I suggested because it can be like like FotD
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Not bad but 6 mana for that is kinda intimidating
frail flare
I felt like 2 of the creatures you had were solutions that were tutorable with gsz and I didn't know if they were ones you needed to search for more
misty geyser
Maybe I should lean into some amount of token gen tho
frail flare
If you're milling hard that tutors.
misty geyser
I felt like 2 of the creatures you had were solutions that were tutorable with g...
The main thing was T1 dryad arbor but you might be right
I also just have a soft spot for gsz
frail flare
Yeah
misty geyser
Why no lord windgrace, out of curiosity
frail flare
Because it's 5 mana it felt like the wrong pacing unless you were running direct reanimate effects. Like, pitch a dredge creature and that is sweet but it felt, the wrong pacing.
It's a good card int it's own right, but I've also had a lot of people just joke that it's my actual commander and I'm running a different jund commander to hide that.
So I'm more sensitive to that.
misty geyser
Man the more I hear about your LGS the more I get the feeling that some of the people there suck
So I’m looking through and noticing that I have a lot of legendary creatures in the deck
Hmm, actually only like 13
Okay, let me see if I can come from a different direction with this deck idea
frail flare
Yeah, not so many to suggest going with legendary matters theme
misty geyser
I always end up considering legendary typal lol, I just like all the cool commanders too much
frail flare
Mm
misty geyser
Okay, let me see if I can come from a different direction with this deck idea
Anyway, you’re familiar with Naya monsters in Canlander, yeah?
frail flare
Yep
misty geyser
Basically just all the best beaters in naya
What if we basically just do “Jund design mistakes/‘Kill me now before I get out of hand’”
frail flare
That's what I was saying he felt like he should be almost. And why head vs heart was best way to describe.
misty geyser
Like my head was going that direction but I was doing too many cute things/synergies that don’t play nice with goodstuff?
frail flare
The disadvantage Jund has is haste unless it's from the GY
misty geyser
Yeah, I’m not terribly into haste with most of my decks tbh
I just hate wasting mana on haste
frail flare
This is interesting
https://moxfield.com/decks/drd7xhE7tU6UjdjrHcLTww
misty geyser
The big thing is that I can’t simply run beaters because my three opponents have a total 6x the life
Buuuut I can play bigger and stompier things than Jund in canlander can
grand hingeBOT
Enchantment Creature — Insect Monk
Bestow
Enchanted creature gets +1/+1.
Landfall — Whenever a land you control enters, you may pay if this permanent is attached to a creature you control. If you do, create a token that's a copy of that creature. If you didn't create a token this way, create a 1/1 green Insect creature token.
1/1
frail flare
Because it can go on big beaters.
misty geyser
Wow, slimefoot and squee is a choice
frail flare
I feel like s&s is exchangeable with coram
But if you're not running legends.
Why I'm thinking about it.
misty geyser
S&S?
Oh slimefoot and squee
Yeah, it’s not a bad idea
The two I’m torn between are coram and Soul of Windgrace
frail flare
Mm
misty geyser
It’s the difference between card draw and ramp in the cz
I feel that the deck can support card draw on big beaters much more effectively than it can ramp
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
You play your lands some other way
frail flare
So, @misty geyser the deck Alex is playing, I wonder how adaptable it is for you for Jund
This seems to be the list? https://moxfield.com/decks/0ZkTZaEyz06uXqmvh46JKg
So I don't know, Vial Smasher/Ikra?
Or Vial/Gilanra?
craggy owl
ooo, I like both. Vial Smasher is a bit more conducive with Gilanra than Ikra, but I'd assume the focus being Ikra or Gilanra.
Ikra can be very aggressive, just keep swinging and gaining more life than whoever wants to clap back.
misty geyser
Or Vial/Gilanra?
I had Vial//gilanra for a while
It’s a really solid engine
I have been testing that Coram deck with Windgrace at the helm and tbh I think I’m gonna make the switch to windgrace
The ramp every single turn with a fetchland allows me to recover from basically anything with pretty brutal efficiency
frail flare
Yep, and being able to get opponent fetches.
craggy owl
I realized new Ugin goes hard in Susan & 6th.
misty geyser
I realized new Ugin goes hard in Susan & 6th.
I realized new Ugin goes hard in Susan & 6th.
ftfy
But yes, it does go very very hard in susan and 6th too
frail flare
I'm honestly thinking about implications of it with like top loops
Or any artifact loops
craggy owl
Yeah, there's much more degen purposes than what I'm thinking of. 😅
frail flare
I'm a bad person. 😅
tired wind
Why not go the the better looper: Hullbreaker Horror, loop that Solring + any 1 mana artifact
frail flare
Because I'm thinking of red containing artifact loops with it more than blue. But it works with blue for the same reason.
frail flare
[[Grinding station]] and [[underworld breach]] with 0 cost artifacts
grand hingeBOT
Artifact
, Sacrifice an artifact: Target player mills three cards.
Whenever an artifact enters, you may untap this artifact.
frail flare
So, Tymna/Malcolm caw blade?
Or IshaixSomething?
Relevant to the deck idea for the hawk since it needs W in the color ID [[remembrance]]
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
misty geyser
So, Tymna/Malcolm caw blade?
I’m thinking at least esper
But 3 mana creatures can be very relevant for green
I most definitely want black for kindred dominance, that one mass typal reanimate spell, and cost reduction shenanigans
misty geyser
[[Doubling Chant]] is extremely funny
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
[[hourglass of the lost]] also something I'd recommend.
grand hingeBOT
Artifact
: Add 
. Put a time counter on this artifact.
, Remove X time counters from this artifact and exile it: Return each nonland permanent card with mana value X from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate only as a sorcery.
misty geyser
Yup, I want black and white for that kind of effect explicitly
I’ll definitely need ways to run these out fast, so ways to buy them back extremely quickly is also good
So one thing I’m noticing is how much card advantage we can accrue, and how much deck thinning can occur in this deck.
Which makes me think: how can we do it more?
so my thinking is this: Tymna/Kydele
As a starting point anyway
Then I can evaluate what cards work and what the color distribution shakes out to be
misty geyser
Here’s what i got so far
I need more ideas for spicy tech, and I also need options for board wipes that are effectively one sided
frail flare
[[battle of bywater]]
grand hingeBOT
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures with power 3 or greater. Then create a Food token for each creature you control. (It's an artifact with ", , Sacrifice this token: You gain 3 life.")
The Tooks marched in with Pippin at their head. Merry now had enough sturdy Hobbitry to deal with the ruffians.
frail flare
[[dusk//dawn]]
grand hingeBOT
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures with power 3 or greater.
Dawn
Sorcery
Aftermath (Cast this spell only from your graveyard. Then exile it.)
Return all creature cards with power 2 or less from your graveyard to your hand.
frail flare
[[fell the mighty]]
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
[[retribution of the meek]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
[[retribution of the meek]]
These are all beautiful, thank you
frail flare
[[expell the interlopers]]
grand hingeBOT
frail flare
[[restricted office]]
grand hingeBOT
Enchantment — Room
When you unlock this door, destroy all creatures with power 3 or greater.
(You may cast either half. That door unlocks on the battlefield. As a sorcery, you may pay the mana cost of a locked door to unlock it.)
Lecture Hall 
Enchantment — Room
Other permanents you control have hexproof.
(You may cast either half. That door unlocks on the battlefield. As a sorcery, you may pay the mana cost of a locked door to unlock it.)
frail flare
I think that's it that wasn't on your list.
misty geyser
I am up to 100 cards now
I’m starting to think the number of cost reducers is too much
Should probably just replace them with cheap regular ramp
I also only need one bird in hand to get the ball rolling
Is 20 birds too few?
frail flare
Maybe not with the number of tutors?
misty geyser
Yeah, perhaps
I’m just trying to think of what will also win me the game
Like, if i lose half of them can i still win with half my creatures?
frail flare
Oh [[pirated copy]]
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
https://moxfield.com/decks/H706sfNA8kC2SOTAbuTvSg
i finally got the deck back up to 100 cards
misty geyser
https://moxfield.com/decks/Bz-Ehs_uw0SezCAMjiNeew
let me know what y’all think
sharp garden
Did you see [[colossal grave-reaver]] Umaru? Might be cool for your Jund deck. Although it's spendy at 8.
grand hingeBOT
misty geyser
Did you see [[colossal grave-reaver]] Umaru? Might be cool for your Jund deck. A...
I did, I’m heavily considering it
8 mana is not hard to hit
Plus it synergizes with surveil lands
misty geyser
[[Zurgo|TDC]]