The Cancelling Sickness Thread

[placid mulch]

thats [2] isnt it

[severe magnet]

yea but 2 doesnt specifically mention not changing fundementals

[whole granite]

in that case, still vote 2

[compact meadow]

I am collecting evidence of false positives

[whole granite]

I think it would be more useful to track what leads to false positives rather than the frequency of them

[compact meadow]

mostly for that purpose

[severe magnet]

damn 1000+messages

[vivid hornet]

the 2 main benefits of mech heart are:

1. it's mechanical, loop-able
2. it makes good use of the season(qp2)'s rules
   currently garbo is trying to nerf mech heart by modifying the 7-bag after a certain criteria, which works, but to me, the criterias feel "abstract", the i5 just honestly makes no sense (bro the game is literally called 4.io), and the nerf to mechanical heart feels too forced.

as many has previously stated, tetr.io season 1's changes to the infamous 4 wide combos was much simpler. 4w was insanely overpowered in other games, and the multiplier system was an insanely clever way to keep combos exciting while nerfing the "braindead", "overpowered" 4w combo strategy. 4w never ceased to be usable, it's just that there are other more effective openers to use. this is an example of saying: "hey, this strategy doesn't work too well, you should try something else more creative" instead of: "hey, this strategy is too easy, you can't use it anymore cuz you gotta be creative". i think a game should let the players do what they want to do, albeit under influence of the rules of the designer.

if we want to balance the viability we should see what the game wants us to do so far.
currently, s2 (as opposed to s1) rewards:

1. b2b preserving (which mech heart does very well)
2. comboing into power clears like t-spins and quads (which mech heart also does pretty well)
3. cancelling garbage (you don't have to downstack to stay safe if you don't accept it in the first place, right? [sorry forgot to mention i don't get cancelling sickness either]) (we've never been so cooked)
4. consistent pressure after spiking (to take advantage of high csp) (boom break surge boom continue farming altitude boom pb)
5. high b2b chaining stats (like b2b/s, b2b/bag, etc) (speed comes with experience, and it doesn't get much better than 2 b2b in 3 lines)
6. all-spinning into garbage lines (the only thing on this list that mech heart can't do)
   (if i miss anything please reply and i'll try to edit this list lol)
   as you can see, mech heart works extremely well in the season, as it is awarded from literally everywhere like wtf was s2 made for this thing instead of the other way round-

it's time for my proposal.
incentivise garbage clearing (in qp2, as garbage +1 in tl is already enough), perhaps by adding bonuses to combos that clear multiple lines of garbage seperately in different clears, or adding csp gain while clearing garbage. if unfortunately this is too drastic a change for qp2, i would really love to see this in qp3.

tetr.io has always been a game of quick thinking, but pre-game preperation has also always played a big part in directing the results of a match. there are currently a ton of well developed openers and loops, some of which are infinite loops that also require no PCs, and can easily be used into the midgame, just like mechanical heart. i don't think there are any fundemental differences between them - mechanical heart just happens to match the needs of the s2 meta, while the others don't.
whoops, wall of text

[whole granite]

this is a great depiction of why Mechanical Hearts seems to be so effective in QP2. I never considered which specific aspects of S2 reward Mechanical Hearts, but this list shows that garbage accepting/cancelling is a gameplay aspect like any other, just shared between most of modern Tetris

[frank heath]

I don’t think mech heart is bad in the game sense. In fact, I think it is a great development and merely a new strategy for playing the game. Albeit broken, I would not go as far as this to counter this strategy. Sure, RTXILE abused this strategy to get a wr, but I believe that this strategy is not too broken without the All Spin mod. Disabling All Spin for Zenith speedrun is enough as mech heart is not too broken outside tetra league.
Cancelling sickness is a good idea, but I think it should only apply to All Spin or no mod runs. Because of this players are forced to receive negative effects in other areas of the game. Take Reverse Volatile for example. The only way to climb, or survive, is to keep cancelling garbage as your board is very low and a moderate-sized spike could ruin your board. Why are players punished in this mode, which is entirely focused on cancelling, to cancel?
I do not understand how the I5 piece in queue “nerfs” mech heart. Knowing how adaptive the playerbase is, they have found multiple ways to bypass the restriction of the I5 and the use of a pentamino completely ruins the game name being tetr.io,as we saw on fools day.

[vivid hornet]

exactly

why would a game ban strategies because it matches the meta in an easy way
garbo created mech heart by launching s2 and he's blaming the players for it ig

[severe magnet]

well at least we know theres no way next seasons gonna be all-spin or handheld

cuz else that would be another mech heart buff

[livid sun]

All-spin is good for the game, it has opened room for more playstyles and directions for games to go. It's also less researched so there is more room to innovate. Mech heart has only been an issue in the tower, that's why that's where the only countermeasures are. Because of this, I don't think it requires a "seasonal" change. Cancelling sickness was introduced exclusively to deal with mech heart, so why not just use something more suited for it specifically?

[rich lantern]

canceling sickness was also introduced to finish off pc looping as well

pc attack was nerfed soon after qp2 was released, so I just think they don't want looping/mech to be the ideal way to go about getting records.

[compact meadow]

still though not being able to speedrun with volatile or allspin is so sad

it's like swamp water lite but you are not allowed to disable anything other than allspin

[median pasture]

oh i got i5 in con artist

so confused

considering the point of con artist is to cancel

[hot glen]

Wait, what??

[median pasture]

yeah

it happened

i dont even know how

and again

[viscid glen]

i in hold to i5 i queue 🔥

[obsidian idol]

what about multiplying garbage delay by 0.95 or something for every line canceled over 10 concecutive lines

[ember bobcat]

Do I5 spin 🗣️

[median pasture]

would ruin con artist

[compact meadow]

Con artist was most badly affected before the first cancelling sickness rework

[frank heath]

not in jstris

[ember bobcat]

made the gif for fun

[severe magnet]

sickness helped me get 6 PCs

[ember bobcat]

Perform an I5 PC if possible

[lone void]

were the exact specifics of multiplier combo table disclosed?

combo acts as a multiplier on the base attack
(x1.00, x1.25, x1.50, x1.75, x2.00, x2.25, x2.50, x2.75, ...),

and singles follow a logarithmic function
(ln(1+1.25x), so 0, 0, 1.25, 1.56, 1.79, 1.98, 2.14, ...
(3/line at combo 16, 4/line at combo 43))

[lone void]

game name?

[ember bobcat]

it's at the first frame of that gif

[lone void]

i5 should not happen if you clear garbage at least once in a while
which will inevitably happen with
and should REALLY happen because = clean garbage which you can counterspike off of

[median pasture]

then how did i get one???

[tough sand]

there's exact values available

you can probably do the math from there, I'm not really qualified to do so

[lone void]

"The new one"
- 2020

https://tetr.io/res/emotes/stare.png

this is the up-to-date

[tough sand]

oh there's a new one

well, at least the combo multiplier is still accurate

[lone void]

notice the "triple" and "quad" columns and how they scale

this goes for all rows except single and mtss (the clears that have 0 base send)

those operate on ln(1+1.25*combo)

[unique wave]

i mean like yeah ok but i'm fairly sure osk didn't make it?

i would at least expect to see T-Spin correctly identified as a T-Spin only lol

[tough sand]

oh I figured as much

doesn't look like something osk would design

[lone void]

this should really be more well known

[whole granite]

All-Spins send the same amount as T-Spins for the All-Spin rulesets in QP and custom rooms

[unique wave]

fiiiine

i wouldn't count custom rooms though, that's a bad excuse

you absolutely aren't and cannot account for what custom rooms are capable of without having twenty tables, and it's stupid to pretend otherwise

i mean all clear already has the elaboration "this is how it works in QP and it works differently in other modes"

[compact meadow]

I mean it's reasonable to write Spin instead of T-Spin

[unique wave]

i don't think so, especially if you're new to this game and can't wrap your head around what spins even are

there's too much nuance and this is by and large how it works an overwhelming amount of the time

there aren't even 10,000 unique entries (there's 468,127 entries in )

[compact meadow]

iirc these used to say t-spin

[unique wave]

i wouldn't be surprised if they would if redesign was out but as-is i'm pretty sure the stats are relatively devoid of care and effectively unmaintained since 2020 when it comes to labeling spins

trust me, it's noticeable to me that so many people say this is broken, not to be expected

i'm not the only one upset about that

[primal marsh]

(i made it)
so the way it works usually is "2-corner T-spins are full spins which send more lines, immobile spins with any piece are mini spins which do not, every spin counts as B2B"
which you can see as either "enabling all-spin makes mini spins send the same as T-spins, except for T itself"
or "enabling all-spin upgrades mini spins to full spins, except for T"
i see it as the latter, which would make saying "T-Spins" less accurate

[unique wave]

ok so you're seeing it as something plainly irrelevant to 98.1% of the individual quick play audience

i still think (T-)Spin is an improvement

[dawn turtle]

Why is the i piece 5

[compact meadow]

you reminded me there's no spin penta here, which is technically possible now
yeah indeed it's broken

[whole granite]

in my opinion a combo table diagram doesn't have to be relevant to majority of the playerbase since it's likely included for comprehension (it seems to be made for the unofficial TETR.IO wiki where details matter)
whether it should say "T-Spin" or "Spin" is subjective, but "Spin" was probably chosen for generality, and neither is an incorrect identification under the context of TETR.IO
(I won't comment further since this is off topic)

[leaden geyser]

top of thread because scroll is hell

[severe magnet]

lmao looking back i was so bad at the game back then

[severe magnet]

btw

[arctic crow]

why do i feel like thats new

[leaden geyser]

Impossible

Where!?

[leaden geyser]

unfortunately i do not seem to have that

[placid mulch]

pc only

not mobile, because why would you want that

[leaden geyser]

Mobile gets the short end of every stick

[unique wave]

can mobile still not search by thread too

[hot glen]

Generally on iOS, by tapping above orange line I've drawn, it'll take you to top of a screen.

[lone void]

i heard of some heartmech phase that makes 4 spins in different columns and lowers sickness
what is it?
and is it rAS compatible?

where is it again

[whole granite]

https://discord.com/channels/673303546107658242/1371645402171834379
800m/f8
between f6 and f7*

[leaden geyser]

life saver <3

[median pasture]

800m

[placid mulch]

can

[whole granite]

#1369490660561916094 message #quick·play message
I think a good analogy for Cancelling Sickness is that it's like Jstris's 4-wide detection system except without the message that appears, making it confusing for the majority of people unaware of it. But instead of needing to show what triggers and effects there are with an alert, it would be better to rework it so as not to cause the confusion in the first place; and in my opinion, to do so the systems shouldn't activate only for a narrow amount of cases, nor should they be obvious

[severe magnet]

damn wow they did indeed really ban 4w

[lone void]

attack sent at combo n = ln(1+n*1.25) (i think i recalled that right)

ln(x) = real number y, such that x = e^y
(e is a transcendental number and is basically the constant of exponentiation like pi is the constant of circles)
(+ add basic definition of expontentiation for integers and expand it to rational and real numbers with formulas of exponent manipulation like x^(a-b) = x^a / x^b)
that simple

[leaden geyser]

funny
,
thats not simple my head hurts…
is what i would say if i had a head

[ember bobcat]

Screw I5
extra pieces are fun

[ivory frost]

x^a/x^b=x^(a-b)

[lone void]

F

[lone void]

right, fixed

[ember bobcat]

A

( I have colorblind with O and S pieces, please don't kill me. )

[ember bobcat]

(This message marks 1111th in this thread)

[compact meadow]

The S/Z spin sickness increase triggers when you perform an S/Z spin, and for the previous 6 S/Z spins at least 5 use the same S/Z piece as the current spin

slight inaccuracy

[civic ravine]

What if block colors are to be randomized at 70+ sickness?

[lone void]

swap the colors of O and S

[sullen kraken]

"Climb with your own skill"
That was a funny line. Even if you don't use any loops, openers or whatever, you still get a lot of false positives especially with or

[compact meadow]

Which I must say is actually much more prone to false positives!!!!!
It triggers a lot in 5han style freestyle hearts, which does switch between S and Z's but getting 5/6 is still very likely

[restive sierra]

although it is false positive it has minimum impact to your gameplay because you are capable of handling them anyways so i think its good enough

currently i think it should be distictive enough to tell it is piece injected by cancelling sickness to prevent bag reading error and nothing rly else

[sullen kraken]

Thinking that false positives dont impact gameplay is pretty naive in my opinion.

The amount of times a triple O piece ruined a run for me is mind boggling, yeah an i5 is manageable but if 3 o pieces hit your stack when its somewhat uneven, it can be devastating. Especially for me playing with As the game forces me to downstack which mostly results in a lot of wound lines for me as I suck as downstacking so I get double punished.

It just punishes the player playing normally, when you not play the game the game intends you to play.

[restive sierra]

so far ive only encountered one noticable triple and while it did kill me but it was pretty much because of the bad boardstate rather of the triple o piece itself so i didnt really consider cancelling sickness being. problematic

while it has to get less false positives so fair players play fair but i dont think current cancelling sickness is at unplayable state

[sullen kraken]

Yeah but this confirms it, the triple o, killed you because of your unfortunate board state. Would you died with only one O? So it had an impact or made it even worse

[sullen kraken]

I agree I wouldn't say unplayable, but it got to a point where it is annoying enough to make me stop playing QP

[restive sierra]

it is the same level as you getting in f3 to me, bad bags happen without cancelling sickness anyways, i dont get how people get sickness triggered that often to be honest

[sullen kraken]

Im just bad at downstacking with which makes me cancel a lot of garbage or take my time to get down to it. And the game punishes me for being shit

[tender rain]

why is the z piece green in the above

[sullen kraken]

S*

-# O and S piece have for some reason swapped colors

[tender rain]

wait no both of them are correct i'm dumb

[sullen kraken]

Ohh wait wrong image in the rply lol

[lone void]

@sullen kraken@compact meadow@restive sierra have you gues tried tanking 1 garbage line and clearing it yet

i actually do that when playing doublehole mod (i usually fullcancel with 9-0)

[sullen kraken]

Its not as easy when you get garbage on your 10 row height stack

[eager hinge]

its not a Z

[lone void]

have you tried keeping your stack flat yet

[restive sierra]

what is the point you want to tell

[civic ravine]

What if instead of adding i5, sickness messing with board/piece colors?

At 45+ sickness, all non-garbage blocks becomes white/light gray

[whole granite]

to me it's kind of concerningly possible to forget that Cancelling Sickness can be caused by cancelling. I really think that it should either be more directed at cancelling or renamed to give more weight to its anti-loop effects

[civic ravine]

Looping sickness

[whole granite]

in my opinion this would worsen false positives and still does not help the player realise what to do

[civic ravine]

I think some visual cues could be added with the "cancelling" number

the "cancelled" attack is currently displayed in cyan

So, it could be progressively changed to yellow/red hues as the sickness racks up

Hell, or even making the block flashes red when that placement causes the sickness to rise

[whole granite]

indicating placements that increase cancelstreak could help with giving the player an idea on what causes it but I think the less noticeable the better; this message contains my opinion of how it could potentially work

as for changing the color of the number representing the amount of garbage cancelled it probably wouldn't help the player figure out what to do

[lone void]

minimals does NOT have that.

i stand with my original idea of a "REGRET!" text flashing when you pass 20/40/60 cancelstreak and "COOL!" when it drops back below 20 (or just drops significantly)

(i didnt have specific numbers up until this message, only the REGRET/COOL idea)

[sullen kraken]

How original with Regret and Cool. Wont happen chief.

[lone void]

ALRIGHT smart guy! let's see YOU take a crack at it!
suggest something better :droidwide:

[sullen kraken]

there are enough words the devs could choose.
The reason why it wont be refgret or cool is because of one simple reason: TGM3

[lone void]

they did it in 5m blast?

[sullen kraken]

Oh they did? 5M Blast was ages ago

[lone void]

then give an option

:doidoidsmile:

[placid mulch]

and was also a short one-time event

[civic ravine]

Change from "REGRET!" to "Bro STOP!"

[sullen kraken]

I dont have to give you one.
I just said/thought that they wont use those two, because of TGM3. Of course if they used it for 5M back then (never played it) then what I said makes little to no sense.

The devs said multiple times that they want to stay original. You could also make the board look more and more sick as an effect instead of text

[languid garnet]

https://youtube.com/shorts/PCqKMKKikJQ

[whole granite]

this makes it being intentional clearer but doesn't teach the player how to avoid it. I would say that to prevent unintended methods from being more effective than intended play, instead of providing no explanation for inconsistencies or directly indicating the player what should be done, either gameplay rulesets should be reworked to decrease their effectiveness, or they should be made more difficult in a logical and unobtrusive way.

[lone void]

how i'd rebuild cancelling sickness from scratch:

• the more you fullcancel, the more garbage phase dips down
• tank/clear garbage and garbage phase will go significantly back up to normal
• no bag shenanigans
• adjust for modes like messy and doublehole (e.g. make tanking/clearing garbage lower cancelstreak even more or make cancelling raise cs slower)

what a normal player sees when they fullcancel:
>"REGRET" text / other indicator flashes after some gameplay
>garbage slowly becomes too quick to cancel, forced to tank it
>player deals with the garabge
>"COOL" text / other indicator flashes
>phase is back to normal
player has some understanding of the cancelstreak system and can easily ask others around for specifics

what a heartmech spammer experiences:
>garbage phase goes down
> multiple "REGRET" flashes occur over the course of a minute or two
>garbage mult goes up after one point
>5+7+3 garbage smashes in with 0.3s phase (on f4-f6 mind you)
they have been warned numerous times about this. 😁

what a fullcancel pro experiences:
>garbage phase goes down
>player knows how cancelstreak works
>player tanks some garbage and downstacks to it to reset cancelstreak
player can continue to fullcancel until later floors where you can't anymore

_ _

sry for wall of text
is my rough idea something that can be worked with

[grand kayak]

it should be a very small indicator, something that doesn't affect the look of the game
flashing stuff that screams "ooohh, you interacted with this extremely obscure game mechanic that is unlikely to affect your game experience!" doesn't sound too great

[ivory frost]

Me: did mech heart
Also me: reaches f5
Garbage: think fast chucklenuts! x4

[whole granite]

I agree with basing it mostly on garbage interaction, but in my opinion adding text indication is unnecessary and there shouldn't be a distinction with loops since it's already difficult to clear or accept garbage without breaking memorised stacking. Instead of only decreasing garbage phase time, received garbage could probably increase and have lower messiness (like with Targeting Grace) to encourage downstacking, since the messy and unpredictable nature of garbage is why it gets avoided, though in my opinion the main focus should still be on garbage phase. (For example, there was a past update that revolved around increasing received attack, leading to significantly more garbage on lower floors)

Targetting memorised gameplay rather than cancelling is a reasonable idea, but in my opinion it would be better to do so in a way that applies to all forms of gameplay, just impacting aspects that loops heavily rely on and are thus inflexible to (e.g. randomizer, cancelling garbage); or directly changing gameplay rules from the start to achieve a similar effect

Cancelling Sickness is confusing not just due to effects like changing the randomizer mid-game, but also due to its effects having a loose correlation with its causes (e.g., non-memorised full-cancel gameplay can still receive similar results to loops if not following specific criteria such as clearing Quads)

I'm repeating arguments now so I'll stop until necessary or until thinking of new points

[civic ravine]

Probably also throw in few subtle particle effects for rising sickness

[civic ravine]

Or you know, sickness making colour block clears less and less powerful, but making garbage clears more powerful something

[compact meadow]

imo cancelling sickness should NEVER increase garbage mult or increase targetting factor or anything that increases the garbage you receive
because it has a positive feedback loop effect

[lone void]

received garbage could probably increase and have lower messiness
oooooo yesyesyes

[lone void]

?why

[lone void]

that's what i was thinking

maybe visible cracks/corruption in the garbage queue on the left too

[whole granite]

I didn't think much of that since I thought it may be partially amended by lowered garbage phase, but that is a good consideration. In that regard, despite being a benefit, I think lower messiness with no garbage increase could also work by applying it after larger streaks of cancelling (nonlinearly), since that provides an additional reward for overcoming the difficulty of lower cancelling timeframes

[whole granite]

increasing received garbage could also increase the potential/necessity of cancelling, and if escalated too fast may lead to a snowball effect, accumulating to unsurvivable spikes

[hot glen]

Would there be any merit to detecting the amount of single line clear B2Bs used for canceling garbage?

[whole granite]

that's more oriented toward loop detection, but I disagree with this idea since it doesn't seem to be a common feature between loops and only loops. what effects could be logically applied as the result of this detection also seems to be a problem, e.g., the current Cancelling Sickness system adds new pieces between each regular bag if features of Mechanical Hearts are detected, but due to the indirect correlation between its trigger and effect, false positive edge cases are possible albeit rare, leading to minor inconsistencies. (this is solely an example; the main issues with Cancelling Sickness in my opinion are listed in previous messages)

[lone void]

so a negative feedback loop may happen?

ok so if the game tactically smites the player with one non-windup low-phase 12 spike the player will be pretty much forced to tank and incentivized to deal with the garbage

but if garbage mult slowly ramps up like a frying pan and the player keeps up then it will just start snowballing into last stand

[civic ravine]

Would it be the same thing as reducing the attack power instead of multiplying the garbage?

My idea is to reduce the colored attack and increase the garbage clear attack instead

[whole granite]

This turns cancelling from mostly a benefit to a tradeoff with attack power, but I still find lowering garbage phase better in my opinion, since cancelling being beneficial is a long-standing gameplay design, there isn't a sufficient amount of cases of attack amounts being variable in other modes, and without indication the player has to consciously realise the cause of the effects being cancelling to overcome the effects. I think this could work if there was indication and repeated cancelling reduced overall CSP gain instead, but I still prefer the approach of decreasing garbage phase.

[whole granite]

paraphrased from another thread since I haven't elaborated on why changing the randomizer mid-game may be confusing in my opinion:
7-bag is a prevalent game mechanic that even new players get familiar with in a few hours.

With less indication, significant changes to 7-bag (such as doubling the rate of O pieces) can be caught easily, diverging expectations when the player has an insufficient understanding of its cause; subtle changes (such as swapping piece positions) may still be caught by experienced players or players using memorised setups as well, resulting in similar effect.

With more indication, players may be able to understand the cause of the alterations; but the relation regarding altering the randomizer due to cancelling garbage may not be apparent, and the design of altering the randomizer due to use of memorisation may also be unintuitive.

for an informal explanation of why changing the randomizer upon using loops is unintuitive in my opinion: 7-bag implicitly allows memorisation (such as loops) to be possible, but having a hidden mechanic that players are unaware of retract the possibility mid-game upon being used can lead to confusion, as just using the altered randomizer from the start can also prevent memorisation (i.e., 7-bag shows that memorisation is possible; if it's disallowed, this should be communicated clearly from the start.) I believe the reason for this approach is because 7-bag is a fundamental game mechanic where changing it would also impact non-memorised gameplay, but instead of directly changing 7-bag to decrease the effectiveness of memorisation, other non-fundamental game mechanics (e.g. garbage phase) can also be adjusted to do so, since memorisation methods are incapable of interacting with garbage. certain other flaws (e.g. predictability) might not be possible to fix without changing 7-bag, since they derive solely off of 7-bag itself, but for memorisation I believe other approaches can act as better alternatives from the perspective of game design.

#tetra·league message
on an unrelated note, it's been more than three months since this message, so it's more likely that either major game mechanics are being reworked or Cancelling Sickness is considered decent enough at its objectives. I hope the reason is the former, but either way it's unlikely the garbage phase approach is still being considered so I'll bring it up less

edit: #lobby message

[civic ravine]

Another thing to play with is to progressively shutting down the piece previews

But the question would be whether Mech Heart could still survive 1-2 piece previews

[compact meadow]

Don't you think previews are much more important for freestyling than for looping lol

[civic ravine]

That's what I'm going to ask

[acoustic jay]

#1416868310028652654 (5 messages) was moved here.

[boreal needle]

Yeah don't think so, I think mech heart is actually better at it than normal stacking

[severe magnet]

i dont understand why garbo dislikes loops so much cuz if we are using 7-bag, and the pieces are all basic shapes, logically loops would be a natural part of the game. if they really want to nerf loops nerf everything like how 4w got nerfed instead of this weird system

[placid mulch]

loops are just generally low-skill and undermines the actual challenge of climbing the tower

[viscid glen]

not to mention they are repetitive and take away from the replayability of qp2 especially if they are applicable to many modsets

[whole granite]

if this is meant as a refutation, it doesn't disprove their point

[lone void]

nerf everything like how 4w got nerfed
so plain shifting values?
ok i will once again remind of had0j's pure garbage phase solution

...
💡
hold on, didn't they study repetitive tiling in ancient greece

lore idea for devs frfr

[languid garnet]

there is no skill to loops
end of the story

[placid mulch]

there is "skill" in memorization and being fast, just not really any game skill

[whole granite]

most PC loops require skill

[lone void]

ok, let's see a C rank try to heartmech their way to f2

[languid garnet]

mech heart definitely isnt one of them

[lone void]

ok, let's see a C rank try to heartmech their way to f2

[tough sand]

you are setting up a predictable, repeatable pattern by placing the exact same pieces at the exact same spots

throughout the entire run

I fail to see how this is skillful

[unique wave]

memorization isn't easy

[tough sand]

I know I have memory problems but c'mon

[tough sand]

I did mech tspin for the 20TSD badge and I don't think that was skillful

[unique wave]

yeah same

[grim copper]

With this context, would going full TGM by having QP games use 14bag a viable counter? This would be painful for most players but it tends to effectively kill most loops, I wonder if it does the same to mech hearts.

[boreal needle]

Doesn't 14bag hurt everyone else too, some even more than mech heart

I'm guessing that the mech heart loop itself has only a small chance of breaking from looking at it

[whole granite]

in my opinion changing garbage-related mechanics could be easier than changing the randomizer

[lone void]

same

also did anyone actually try doing mechanical heart in historyroll and/or TGM piecegen

how hard is it

never played on this kinda rng

[boreal needle]

H4R6 is considered solved, though the solution may not be stable

[whole granite]

it's impossible to guarantee setups with H4R6

[boreal needle]

well tbf they only need 1 good run

[fickle ermine]

Bonjour

هل هناك امكانية من يتكلم العربي

[sullen kraken]

Rule B2.5

This is an english server.

[severe magnet]

xD

[ember bobcat]

Make a quad+1?
no, a spin double...

[severe magnet]

guys how much damage does a spin quad in allspin do

can someone test xD

im too trash at the game to do it
im guessing its like 8 base damage or smt

[tough sand]

I don't think spin quad is possible

[severe magnet]

with i5 piece

[tough sand]

right

[severe magnet]

or did they cap it at spin triple downgraded

[tough sand]

wouldn't surprise me

[whole granite]

10

[granite wave]

I would have expected it to be 8 tbh

[silver veldt]

I had a similar idea when doing mech heart. Just like, wait a little for the garbage hole to spawn 5 high in the middle and place it down there

[dusty bane]

counter to that is to detect where the I pieces are being thrown away and lock the garbage under that

[ember bobcat]

https://tetr.io/#R:26be3b055902

Hold my beer

[ember bobcat]

https://tetr.io/#R:693067b33443
This for larger surge

[silver veldt]

it expired :{

[warm mural]

Oh look, ReddoBluboCube's found a way! SDPC extended mech heart gives a Tetris at the bottom that can be cleared with an I5

[ember bobcat]

No garbage required for this, but will become more chaos

[boreal needle]

there is also this thing from the cn wiki

[ember bobcat]

What if queue says no then throws you unwanted pieces

[compact meadow]

all 100%

[ember bobcat]

I'm talking about extra pieces

[compact meadow]

well there's no real good way to deal with them
starts with o only so you could probably just dump them to the right

[warm mural]

At this point, the only way to counter mech heart is to lower the board height somehow.

[whole granite]

making it more difficult to cancel can achieve similar effect through garbage rows and be less obtrusive

[raw minnow]

squishing the board slowly would look more amusing though

[severe magnet]

yo can u send me cn wiki im chinese but cant find it

thanks!!

[whole granite]

https://tetriswiki.cn/p/机械之心

[severe magnet]

tysm!

damn i never knew china had this big community
do they have stuff like qq

oh bilibili

[obsidian idol]

we have a mech heart 2.0

[ember bobcat]

This is crazy 🗣️
THIS ONE HAS I SPIN APPLIED

[ember bobcat]

👀

[obsidian idol]

someone is going to do this at like 5 pps and beat the zenith speedrun world record again

wait i cant find the i5 in the replay

[ember bobcat]

Because this has I spin, and no vertical I pieces in 2 columns
Greatly avoid increasing cancelstreak

[obsidian idol]

i did notice some extra o pieces but i guess they didnt let cancelstreak hit 40 for the i5

[ember bobcat]

I spin -2

I Placement: Neighbouring 4 blocks of a column is cyan: +3

[severe magnet]

nah what??????

LIKE WHAT
FREESTYLE + MECH?

nah wtf i spin version

[obsidian idol]

you can tell from the garbage meter that their cancelstreak was under 25 for most of the run

[boreal needle]

I think Garbo might actually crash out with this one

[boreal needle]

Did anyone ping rtx yet?

[obsidian idol]

mech heart targeted stuff for cancelstreak dont work because people are going to make more versions of it like this one

[boreal needle]

Ok mech heart V2 is in Garbo react but idk about rtx

[whole granite]

rtxile has known this since August

[boreal needle]

So he chose to not abuse it?

[compact meadow]

he's been inactive

[civic ravine]

Inb4 placing same pieces on the same column adds sickness

[obsidian idol]

but wouldnt this ruin lst stacking

[boreal needle]

It ruins everyone but cz's stacking lmao

[stuck cipher]

just trying to lst

[compact meadow]

showing a pic of 1-8 stacking

[tough sand]

can you show us the replay?

[stuck cipher]

https://tetr.io/#R:38c6d35eab73

[stuck cipher]

i messed up like 2 seconds before

[boreal needle]

ok i need to mentally download your lst because wtf that was so smooth

btw yeah cancelling all the garbage until i5 is nuts

[compact meadow]

but that's so sad

you get messed up by cancelling sickness even with 3pps lst

[whole granite]

it seems to happen mostly with full-cancel gameplay that involves minimal Quads

[compact meadow]

That wasn't even perfect lst, so it had more quads

[stuck cipher]

nah that's mech heart because I got i5 (real)

Zenith speedrun is still cooked

Have to get enough kos (rng) and also deal with a LOT of O pieces

[dawn turtle]

Tbh mechheart does take some skill bc it took me days to learn the patterns and not to mess up under pressure

[ivory frost]

I think I have a method that quickly leads to mech heart and is quick to set up but it is not guaranteed for the first 3 bags

[dawn turtle]

hm?

[ivory frost]

1st bag (2/3 needed):
T or J after Z
O after I
S after L
2nd bag:
I after O
If not for 2nd bag
3rd bag:
L and ‘S or T’, after I
image shows the first 3 bags with the T, S, and L piece not placed

There are slight variations but it’s mainly this

[ivory frost]

^

[dawn turtle]

whats the point in that

wait does that like mean i can mechheart mid game

[ivory frost]

No

Well u can mech heart mid game but its hard to set up

[buoyant geyser]

i just hate that cancelling sickness punishes LST stacking so much

it punishes freestyling too so quickplay is just generally a lot less fun than it used to be

[tough sand]

hate to be that guy but I freestyle all the time and I never had the chance to encounter cancelling sickness

[ivory frost]

Many and I mean MANY people who freestyle cancels garbage to avoid doing things they don’t want to do but since sickness is caused by canceling garbage, it goes to show that it nerfs basically everyone who wants a clean stack and not be pressured

[humble mesa]

At the same time, I don't see why it would affect freestyle so much. If you're using a rigid loop, you're going to have a bad time with extra pieces. But if you're freestyling, wouldn't you be able to use them like any other piece and just roll with it?

[obsidian idol]

once i got a i5 while freestyling with volatile+invisible

[ivory frost]

5 o pieces coming your way 😄

Also doesn’t mech heart have valid counters?

[whole granite]

adding an extra O to each bag doubles the amount of O pieces, making 25% of received pieces the O piece

[humble mesa]

Hmmmm...what if instead of extra O, it was a different piece? Since then it might be easier to roll with it in freestyle.

[glossy dock]

85% more bag per bag

[civic ravine]

I think other pieces are currently added too once sickness goes past i5 level.

[glossy dock]

its 7+6 right? yeah 85% more bag per bag

I wish Cancelling Sickness actually cancels my sickness

[whole granite]

extra I pieces are probably more beneficial for freestyle, but in my opinion a garbage-based approach would still be better than changing the randomizer

[severe magnet]

guys we are 1 away

[humble mesa]

Hell yeah cube number

[unique wave]

holy shit minecraft stack number

[placid mulch]

okay well dont go too low either we must stay in [62, 66]

[viscid glen]

i feel like cancelling sickness produced by cancelling should be halved when the volatile mod is active

not a big change and usually when i get i5 it's because im using volatile

[dusty bane]

cancelstreak cannot go negative, thresholds except for I5 are doubled with the Volatile mod on, and extra pieces are randomized separately from the main bag
- had0j

[sudden perch]

probably they are asking about I5 threshold

[glossy dock]

give me every i5

[humble mesa]

I would like to point out that with this specific case, algebruh has pretty much 0 canceling sickness because he cleared a garbage line like 2 clears ago

[acoustic jay]

#1448035781892640859 (0 messages) was moved here.

[sacred plume]

I got an i5 in volatile once lol

well really it was so I canceled a lot

[severe magnet]

oh god

[sudden perch]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-up-gif-478797501342911469

[obsidian idol]

i just got cancel sickness in deadlock

this is kinda a problem because the extra pieces make it harder to downstack

[viscid glen]

if you have cancelling sickness then you probably weren't downstacking already

[whole granite]

this forms negative feedback that makes it more difficult to downstack instead of positive feedback to encourage it

[humble mesa]

Pointing out that deadlock is kind of a case where you need to cancel a lot

[sacred plume]

Terrifying

[sudden perch]

5wide

[humble mesa]

LOL

[languid garnet]

i wonder what will happen if you try to somehow get i5 on a 4x4 board

and if this is even doable in the first place

[unique wave]

you would just die instantly if that happened

[languid garnet]

is that programmed into game code

[unique wave]

well that's always been what happens if a piece too wide to fit the board spawns

[placid mulch]

the animation shows what is pretty clear visually: the i5 is colliding with OOB which counts as a block-out

[sudden perch]

doesnt even clutch
great

this game sucks -5i/10

[humble mesa]

Where would it clutch to?

[sudden perch]

atleast provide time to make it vertical like loaded

[humble mesa]

True; it could spawn vertical

[placid mulch]

thatd be inconsistent ARE

and spawning it vertically would be inconsistent spawning

and this is an ultra-edge case

[sudden perch]

so you are saying canceling sickness costing an entire game is ok?

[placid mulch]

you MUST be playing with Snowball Board (see: temporary) and you MUST have not cleared 20 lines and you MUST have accrued enough cancel sickness to get i5

so.. yes

the video is obviously trying to get i5 so its not like it was a real run anyway

[sudden perch]

maybe make that snowball I5 cannot trigger before 5x5

[placid mulch]

you have to make a conscious effort to throw your run just so you can even reach the i5

and even still, its pretty intuitive that a piece will block out if it has no room to spawn, thats what a block out is after all

[sudden perch]

I mean
you can just make I5 not spawn before 5x5

no reason to make block out just for I5

[placid mulch]

it doesnt block out "just for i5", it would block out if any piece spawned out of bounds

what youre suggesting IS an unnecessary code change "just for i5"

and/or "just for snowball board"

[sudden perch]

wow everyone hates me

[placid mulch]

ive got nothing against you dw

[sudden perch]

ok

[tame hill]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uQbjvVB2bQ

[obsidian idol]

cancel sickness should be disabled in snowball because theres really no way to loop when your board size changes

the extra o pieces are kinda annoying

[humble mesa]

Should not have greeded for screenshot

[sudden perch]

should've placed O on bottomright before screenshot

[humble mesa]

Yeah

Or like waited until the run finished then screenshotted the replay

[humble mesa]

No I5 5wide PC sad

[sudden perch]

the rule of thumb in snowball: expansion occurs at worst time you can get it

(unless you try to get expansion, if then it occurs normally)

[humble mesa]

Honestly I think I know why I'm getting I5 so often

It's literally because I'm kind of good at PCs

[sudden perch]

idt I've ever got it before 6x6 board

[humble mesa]

I can continue PC into like 6x6 or 7x7 a decent amount of the time before I start struggling due to garbage and the increased number of pieces needed per PC

And each PC is +5 canceling sickness so...

[humble mesa]

Hmmmmmmmmm

The queue ZTSJILO;ILOZTSJ;ZTSJI can hit 8 PCs in 4x4 in 19 lines, after which a lucky 4th bag that starts with L or O gives us PC #9 in 21 lines. At that point we get to 5x5.

You can then do five 5x4 boxes to get to 6x6 for 14 PCs. Though I will admit that canceling sickness will screw up my 4x4 theorycrafting in practice, though I cannot be sure where in the queue it would start to kick in.

I know that 6x6 can 2L so that makes the theorycrafting more complicated

We will enter 6x6 at 41 lines and 46 pieces.

[acoustic jay]

#1451803650652504145 (0 messages) was moved here.

[midnight swan]

death

[viscid glen]

fortunately it's basically impossible to kill yourself with the i5 this way unless you are trying to intentionally trigger it

[midnight swan]

true

[humble mesa]

Wait I misremembered wrong; PC is only +3

[humble mesa]

Ok yeah it's an extremely close call here since 14 PCs is 42 canceling sickness

You get a bit more from canceling garbage but you get less from the fact that you're likely not going to hit perfect PCs in 4x4

Ideally you want to get I5 during 5x5 so you can get an extra PC with it, but often it tends to show up in 6x6 instead and ruin your PC "loop" that isn't actually a loop.

The other effects of canceling sickness are genuinely not that hard to deal with since the relevant PC fundamentals don't care about 7-bag.

In particular, the extra O pieces can pair up in 4x4, and you can often stacc O in larger boxes when you have two of them.

Meanwhile extra J/L can often make box solves nicer.

[humble mesa]

On the other hand, garbage phase being cut in half is extremely annoying.

And also I don't know if you still get more garbage if you have canceling sickness.

[whole granite]

yes but the effect is reduced

[humble mesa]

Goddamnit

I can roll with extra pieces in my PC spam but garbage increase and garbage phase is genuinely far more devastating.

[humble mesa]

LOL

[obsidian idol]

i always try to tank a single line in 6x6 so i dont have to deal with half garbage phase and extra pieces

[humble mesa]

But then you have an odd number of cells on your board so you can't PC anymore

I know that I will likely accumulate a lot of canceling sickness from PC spam, so instead of trying to delay the inevitable, I try to get I5 early so that I can hopefully get a free PC in 5x5.

[sacred plume]

nice

[dawn turtle]

nah cuz ts ruins everything 😭

[humble mesa]

I can roll with extra O/J/L/whatever if I'm PCing; I can't just do the same with I5 on an even-width board

[buoyant geyser]

can cancelling sickness like

just increase the gravity of your pieces a shit ton instead of what it does now

[placid mulch]

that would probably be much more disruptive to normal gameplay

and would cause gravity to jump around seemingly randomly

[languid garnet]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/870204360741773342/965282308523438120/me-when.gif

[dawn turtle]

@brittle dew

[brittle dew]

we love cancelling sickness

[dawn turtle]

check dms lil bro

[lone void]

why does cancelstreak even exist in invis/exile
let people do memory in the memory mode

like, for exile completely remove cancelstreak and starting cheese. and for invis either nerf or remove it

i like the double-edged sword mods (, )

and making invis/exile one would also be the perfect rework to make it less annoying

should i make an #1020054329782186065 thread of this

[worldly onyx]

yes

[lone void]

first i'll hear some opinions tho

from the other 95% of the playerbase, don't dare to call me a skill issue

if you admit that a mode (even if a reversed one) isn't playable for 95% of players you pretty much admit that it's terrible

[humble mesa]

I was under the impression that the 3 lines of cheese were there to show the player how garbage visibility worked

[lone void]

no?

[dusty bane]

i mean it doubles as that and a fuck you to stalling for garbage

[placid mulch]

thats probably one of the reasons

[lone void]

it doubles for deincentivizing downstack

and then the game devs when the exile players dont wanna downstack:

[viscid glen]

aren't the garbage lines there mostly just to prevent pc looping

pcs might be nerfed but something like sdpc loop would be incredibly easy to visualize

the garbage lines aren't punishing if you just downstack them immediately

sure you can't really do mech consistently if you do that but that's fine with me

[dusty bane]

i mean it still is to an extent

[viscid glen]

the main issue i have is that i would much rather the garbage just start on the board rather than having to accept it after placing a piece, that's the main annoyance since i can't plan around it from the beginning

[arctic crow]

same issue with warlock
injected lines just feel... so much worse than like, loaded dice or damnation

[viscid glen]

ya

it's the kind of change that wouldnt affect leaderboards much either so easy qol change

[viscid glen]

[boreal needle]

there is no way they don't have the technology

[dusty bane]

weird idea, disable cs if a garbage line is cleared with a spin

[sudden perch]

wdym that's the main purpose

it should not be a buff in any way

but bc it sometimes still become a buff
this is still a problem that has a point

[boreal needle]

ik it is a 1/10 or 1/5 chance generally, but placing your piece over the garbage hole just feels bad

[sudden perch]

but i think intention is making player feel bad

[boreal needle]

it feels bad regardless of what strat you use

[lone void]

slight issue but that could be worked upon 🤔

[whole granite]

it's already reset to 0 upon clearing garbage

[lone void]

and they want to make it never rise again after that
which, visibly, has an issue but could work

[frank heath]

Warlock is already arguably the easiest reversed mod, and the wr is even higher than normal no hold

So I think that warlock should not be further buffed

[lone void]

not even last stand

?

[midnight swan]

no

[lone void]

i'd say theyre the same

i mean obv those two are the easiest rev mods since theyre based on the only two double edged sword mods

[viscid glen]

-# actually loaded dice is the easiest reverse mod (it has the most f10s)

some of the reverses like warlock require very niche skillsets though so some players will find it a lot easier or harder

but back to the original point changing the garbage so that you start with it on the board is such a small change, to the point where it shouldn't affect leaderboards pretty much at all

as it is right now you are just gambling with your first piece

i think this kind of thing is in the same vein as the starting well column change(i.e. they changed the starting column so that it would never start in columns 1, 2, 9, or 10, since these were usually not favorable to the player)

[humble mesa]

Imagine being able to visualize

[amber otter]

What comes after i5 if you don't cancel garbage?

[whole granite]

#quick·play message

[ember bobcat]

Every bag has extra O, L/J and S/Z

[lone void]

Proposal:

Don't like people meching?

Make them start with a short random center-well stack.

IT"S SO SIMPLE.

[arctic crow]

more rng in zenith

[hot glen]

This, but for TL. 😈

[keen gazelle]

"dont like mech? buff c4w"

[arctic crow]

this buffs combo quad setups

so:
c4w rampant
lower floor econ is a gamble now
you actually might buff mechanical heart as they can just abate sickness with the new clean

[midnight swan]

i would actually want this too

[lone void]

by short i mean like 2 blocks tall

just some random, slightly bumpy terrain that you can't build a mech or a c4w on top of. THAT"S IT.

[whole granite]

simplicity isn't the only factor; being intuitive also matters

[obsidian idol]

what if we inject one line of garbage per floor for warlock instead of stopping climb speed if you dont clear enough garbage

[lone void]

peak!!!

[boreal needle]

QP2 idea: Add QP1 Margin time modifiers

[placid mulch]

that's #1272352916606550118
but this also wouldn't work because margin times already have their role filled in qp2

[boreal needle]

wait fuck wrong chat

that was meant for #1355003158182625290

[placid mulch]

LMAO

yeah figures

[river maple]

remove fucking sickness warning that appears it literally closes part of box and blinds you and u just die THATS ANNOYING

[arctic crow]

[lone void]

that would be fatigue not sickness
it's only an issue in minimal graphics where its fully opaque so try setting low instead

[sharp harbor]

Osk needs to fix his game because canceling sickness is secretly a buff

[lone void]

canceling sickness is secretly a buff
yes it does help i spin mech

[humble mesa]

searching for specific message that isn't this one
In my opinion, SDPC is very hard to visualize.

[keen turtle]

expanding on how this can help
the i spin mech is primarily separated into two stages, the downstack loop and the 6-bag upstack

• it is fairly easy to cancel and send attack in the downstack loop. it's less consistent in the 6-bag upstack. if i could, i prefer to loop more than downstack
• below i will refer to the height of the right two columns of the ds phase as RTC
• usually, ds loop is 8 bags because the RTC decreases by 1 block every bag due to volume. however if you time right and get o piece sickness WITHOUT l/j sickness, you get to do more loop. this is more beneficial at higher floors if you can go fast enough, as every added O piece increases RTC by one and therefore lets you loop more
• the usual technique is that, with a medium height of right two columns during ds loop, stall and wait to cancel garbage. after you feel like the O pieces are starting to pile up, spam loop faster to get the i pieces. if you feel like you are receiving too much garbage with a dangerously high or low RTC, tank some garbage to reduce the sickness.
  • i say "dangerously low" as well because if you go into the upstack phase with an extra o piece, that might mess it up with a larger probability

i can get t25 with purely mech

not t10 tho, that required actual freestyle at the end

the garbage pressure was too much
i bet rtxile could do it tho

[humble mesa]

I got f3 by mech TSDing before canceling sickness was a thing at all 💀

[humble mesa]

Isn't tanking garbage extremely punishing with loops though?

[compact meadow]

garbage phase lowering should happen after O sickness

[humble mesa]

The issue is that you can only ever tank so much garbage

Impressive

MS2 and DPC require actual effort to solve unlike mech TSD

Exile is genuinely terrifying

[keen turtle]

yes, but its rather rare until you get to like f8 or f9

if you can go fast enough

in my exile run, i got to f9 with purely mech, then launched into f10, and then freestyled for 500m to get 2.2km

that was a really lucky econ run where i ended up with 140b2b tho

[amber otter]

Blitz players and opener mains be like

[acoustic jay]

#1474708235914051725 (0 messages) was moved here.

[lone void]

i can literally, LITERALLY enter hyperspeed thru f4 with i-spin mech without breaking b2b.

If stars align and i also get col4 garbage to reset cancelstreak in time, I might just mech a good diamond Zenith Speedrun.

[humble mesa]

I really don't see the issue

Mechs are part of the game and like everything else, they have their upsides and downsides

Like yes they're kind of easy, but there is a huge cost in terms of how accepting any lines at all is extremely punishing.

And you can't keep up forever.

[whole granite]

this is what I mean by garbage being a flexible and established mechanic that can be worked upon

[dreamy raven]

inb4 after cancelstreak gets too high garbage gets injected into the board and bypasses the queue

[unique wave]

evil timeline where we really do just start treadmill work singling out every single mech build by hand and deliberately killing only those runs

how bad could it be

[dreamy raven]

surely it wouldn't spiral out of control and take up untold months of thinking and development time

[unique wave]

[compact meadow]

then we'll see runs that are not entirely mech and challenge the boundary between mech and non mech

[unique wave]

originality is rewarded

[keen turtle]

bring back 5m blast!!!!!!!

[sudden perch]

why here

[keen turtle]

in response to originality is rewarded

[sudden perch]

oh ok

[tame hill]

so, since extra O will be extremely easy to get
a 4x4 pure square should be awarded

[sharp harbor]

garbo seriously thinks he can stop me

[placid mulch]

worst sandwich

[mossy crane]

today i got an enormous amount of O pieces, even 3 in a row while i had already plenty placed and early in next queue (next bag)

but all this without getting the I5

sickness threshold or anything hasnt changed, right? because it feels like it

[ember bobcat]

cancelstreak <40

[dusty bane]

extra O threshold is 20

I5 is 40

thresholds are doubled when using volatile except for I5 for unknown reasons

[midnight swan]

best sandwich 😋

[ember bobcat]

cancelling sickness got a bit too literal

[boreal needle]

hmmm ok i wasn't cancelling much but surely this is a bit too harsh

[wide narwhal]

(im suggested this chat about this moment)

yeah totally wtf

[ember bobcat]

The numbers refer to your cancelstreak

It gets increased by cancelling garbage, perfect clears, placement, and certain spin patterns

[wide narwhal]

"cancelstreak"! oh kinda got it

[wide narwhal]

...where bag system gets irregular in those cases?

[ember bobcat]

however, an i5 doesn't accept penta clears, it counts as quad

[wide narwhal]

never seen i5 tho 😭

[ember bobcat]

• For every garbage cancelled: +1
• Perform a perfect clear: +3
• placement: Neighboring leftmost or rightmost of all 4 blocks are cyan and don't clear any lines: +3
• Clear / spin with another / 6 times: +2
• Every 30s/75 pieces without decreasing cancelstreak: +5

[wide narwhal]

ohh so great lol

[acoustic jay]

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[fringe spire]

oh very cool

[whole granite]

#quick·play message

[whole granite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1263916187595833344/1500106985746727077/image.png?ex=69f73b00&is=69f5e980&hm=d8b3ef73f50904570d8ac2ef764ecbaafb8ffce93583b28edc0ecf5a79d80f05

[ember bobcat]

Arrived after 2 bags

[acoustic jay]

#1504357319159320617 (1 message) was moved here.

[arctic crow]

can we rename this thread with I5 in it? its really commonly merged due to people not knowing it is called "cancelling sickness"

[unique wave]

do those people even describe it as "i5 piece"

like not to stifle the suggestion but they clearly aren't using CTRL+F in the first place

[ember bobcat]

.

[keen turtle]

and dont forget the halved garbage entry delay

[ivory frost]

The only thing that really makes people notice their queue being affected by garbage sickness is really just something new, because things appearing randomly feels natural enough that most of us just over look it thinking it's normal and I 5 piece is something nobody really expects to see