#Please return the prior quickplay climbing speed sounds

199 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

final pendant
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Please, it sounded way better, and the new sound doesn't really fit the quick play asthetics, please please please 😭😭

amber jackal
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lol

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Please return the prior quickplay climbing speed sounds

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do not scream your requests in all caps thanks

final pendant
warm flint
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i don't think it should be changed back

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but the new ones aren't very good

nimble moss
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my thoughts currently

  • old sounds were not an issue and made sense to me (woosh = speed, obviously)
  • new ones, while inoffensive, don't really make sense
    • also you can't hear them when spectating another player. it might be intentional, but i feel like it makes more sense for a spectator to hear everything the player is hearing (even for something as insignificant as climb speed)
visual oar
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idk i enjoy them, theyre much more sudden and i can hear them better whenever the sound plays at the same time as a different sound

visual oar
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although i know how much osk hates toggles for every tiny little thing

amber jackal
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toggle is out of the question

feral stump
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why is toggle out of the question though, it's a distinctly negative user experience to not be able to turn off distracting sounds

amber jackal
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it's a silly idea UI/UX wise

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we're not adding a toggle for more random things

feral stump
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welp, just adding my 2 cents that the speedup/down events occur rather frequently, and that a notification-like bloop sound is in my opinion too attention grabbing and detracts from the smooth stacking experience like somebody poking at your shoulder when you're trying to focus on a task

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compared to the previous, which seems to fit with the whole rocket boosting up thing up the tower and into space, and isn't an unexpected sound that keeps coming to grab your attention directly

amber jackal
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once you notice it, it's actually more annoying than the current sound

feral stump
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I don't think it's fair to say what I would feel as more annoying, given that I didn't pay attention to it until after the change

amber jackal
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and if we roll it back you'll notice it now

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nobody on the dev team likes the old one over the new one

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the old one is way too annoying to provide information

feral stump
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well if the devs are intent on the change, then all I can do is to leave an opinion here

amber jackal
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for the record I don't like the new sound

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the old one was just way worse though

feral stump
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wait I just realised, aren't you the music woman*

amber jackal
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not a man

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and yes, but this sound was a draft, I'm not sure why it got added

feral stump
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I can try to appeal to your reasoning! The boop is clashing with the background music!

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~hopes hard the change is reverted now~

amber jackal
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it doesn't need to be reverted

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because neither sound is good

feral stump
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well i'm looking forward to the improved version

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right now it feels like I need to be looking for a open chat window somewhere whenever the speed change sound plays

amber jackal
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its a new sound so you're not used to it

upper sinew
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if you want the old climbspeed sounds just use tetr.io plus like omg

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it allows you to change any SFX in the entire game

stoic garnet
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The new boop sound is not cooking. It doesn't feel like an energy drive. I'm expecting some kind of one shot wobble bass or smth else that sounds powerful

feral stump
upper sinew
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skins

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and doesn't affect gameplay

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skins and SFX modding allowed, so is custom maps in custom solo, but nothing else

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iirc

feral stump
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I just want to replace that one sound with no sound

upper sinew
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that being said

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i don't really know how to do SFX with tetrio+

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you'd have to ask uniqmg or look at the tetrio+ guide lol

glad pebble
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well you just scroll a list and click browse and replace it with a silent .ogg file

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it's not rocket science

feral stump
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i'll figure out the menu navigation one day

upper sinew
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btw if anyone in here wants the old sounds i have them on my computer

feral stump
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ahaha I have some embarrassing news, I thought the speed_down sounded like speeding up because of how whooshy it is. I've been believing wrongly that my poor performance is wooshing upwards

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gaslighted myself into thinking i'm doing well climbing up the tower

wind birchBOT
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mergeout #1352868933652189214 (0 messages) was moved here.

glad pebble
glad pebble
wraith hill
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I heavily disagree, I enjoyed the wooshes a lot. It wasn't loud, felt like it fit the aesthetic, and didn't feel intruding. The new one is a lot more intruding, and while it does do a better job at conveying information, it feels very hard to ignore. When I first began the tower, I never payed attention or cared for the woosh sounds, I was able to ignore it, and I feel like that's something important for the UX of newer players who probably wouldn't care for their climb speed. When I did begin to care, the woosh felt like a good fit. For the sound design itself, it conveys that feeling of "going faster" or "slowing down". This new one just feels like a notification bell, and doesn't fit a "I'm climbing faster or slower" feeling.

glad pebble
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(fyi here's the pending replacement for the current sound)

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(it changes per floor/song)

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but yeah i tend to agree. maybe it could've faded out globally for a little while when you're at the border of leveling up and down over and over but besides that i thought the originals were acceptable

wraith hill
# upper sinew if you want the old climbspeed sounds just use tetr.io plus like omg

There's also concern for newer players of the game. I have a lot of friends who have recently been getting into TETRIO, and the first thing I thought of when playing on the new update was that the new sounds feel very distracting, and for them, focusing on their climb speed is the last of their worries, as newer players are much more overwhelmed on trying to stack and handle garbage. Installing a mod is not a good solution.

glad pebble
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besides, T+ can't easily replicate the old sound logic

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you'd have to fight a turing complete visual programming language to reimplement it lol

wraith hill
# glad pebble

I like these much better, they feel like leveling up. I'll miss the "speeding up!" feeling, but this is pretty good. They also don't feel distracting/intruding, which was my main concern with the new sounds.

wraith hill
# glad pebble

I also noticed that the climb bar flashes in sync when leveling down. I like that, as knowing what the sound correlates to can be confusing.

amber jackal
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as a reminder, the sounds that are currently in were never intended to be in, i have no idea how they got there

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i submitted them as a draft idea

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nobody told me it was going to production

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so i spent early in the morning making better ones...

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now my sleep is fucked up LOL

frozen marsh
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noooo

wraith hill
obtuse swallow
wind birchBOT
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mergeout #1353027792169734164 (0 messages) was moved here.

obtuse swallow
# warm flint but the new ones aren't very good

I didn't hear the old one, but the new one is like joining a discord call every time I make a quad, like, idk man I don't care about the speed up this much that I wanna get a Facebook notification ping on my email client every time I make a quad, idk if you get what I mean

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Soon I'll get a notification on teams and get a notification to join a meeting each time I make a quad

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Unironically thought it's a bug when I heard it it 7 times

iron oracle
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new update: climb speed sfx replaced with knock brush

obtuse swallow
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I'm honestly not sure if that's better or worse

iron oracle
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worse

simple swift
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The new climb speed sounds do in fact catch me off guard.

amber jackal
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they are already being replaced

strange marsh
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Thank god i'm not alone

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Make it an option in config

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both sides win

glad pebble
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ok but then the developers lose needing to support this shit

strange marsh
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true

slender token
obtuse swallow
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Not joining discord chat by making a quad, pog

iron grotto
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toggles are troublesome strips of duct tape for things that would benefit from real fixes. adding a toggle fixes nothing and makes development harder. it's far better to take the current system and fix it as needed.

that said, I prefer the new sounds over the old ones. the old sounds were loud, and they got obnoxious when frequently crossing a climb speed level in both directions

slender token
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the new new sfx are actually pretty good

nimble moss
# nimble moss my thoughts currently - old sounds were not an issue and made sense to me (woosh...

new thoughts on the new sfx that came from this maintenance

  • i like that the new sound is recognizable and doesn't get smothered by all the other sounds that are going on
  • they still sound kinda tetra legends-y and feel out of place, but not as much as the initial 1.7.0 sounds
  • i still kinda want to hear them while spectating other people
  • evidently i'm in the minority that likes the woosh sfx better, but the current ones are not bad overall
slender token
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the wooshes blended in better and made sense

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but these aren't bad

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dynamic sfx are cool imo

vivid estuary
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+1 on that the old sounds blended in more, they sound a bit like everything else (incoming garbage, b2b release) but personally I see that as a positive, not a negative. and yes, the old sounds got annoying when you kept going slower and faster for a bit, but that was not addressed at all, the new sounds are just as annoying when it happens

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the old sounds also made sense, i mean its easy to associate a whoosh noise with going fast, if you've never played the game before I think most people will at least know it has to do with going up even if they don't know it specifically means climbing speed. now it kinda just sounds like the game thinks that quad was really cool so heres a noise

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also i dont understand the development argument about toggles, when i open any game's settings menu, the more different sound categories with their own sliders/mutes there are, the better. personally I am indifferent to the old sound existing or not but I really really really want the new noise to not be there (+like many other players I do not care enough about current climbing speed for it to need an audio cue)

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if the problem is that its too loud then, i mean, im probably missing something, but why not just make it quieter

obtuse swallow
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oh, the sounds today are way better than the discord notifications, i checked by playing qp

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i thought this thread was about the 1.7.0 initial sounds

slender token
obtuse swallow
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oh

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the initial sounds were bad. i think it got fixed, then

slender token
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yes

iron grotto
# vivid estuary also i dont understand the development argument about toggles, when i open any g...

from a developer's POV, it's a nightmare to maintain. every time there's a change that someone doesn't like, "make it a toggle" often gets suggested. if toggles were implemented every time, there would easily be dozens of toggles. that means an exponentially increasing number of ways to break things or get unintended behavior because toggles can interact with each other. developers would have to ensure that everything works properly for every toggle and many combinations of toggles. that situation only gets worse as the number of toggles increases.

besides, adding a toggle doesn't fix anything. they're just a workaround. sure, adding a toggle might be easy in the short term, but it suffers in the long term. it's far better just to fix the problem and be done with it

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toggles also don't make much sense from a development perspective. let's say that a game uses [thing A]. the developers have found problems with [thing A]. fixing it is out of the question because the problems are more fundamental (e.g. it's incompatible with what's planned), so it's better to replace it entirely. [thing A] gets replaced with [thing B], but [thing B] has some problems. inevitably, people suggest making toggles.

scenario 1: you can now toggle between [thing A] and [thing B]. hooray, you're stuck with two flawed systems, but at least you get a choice between them! the experience is only as good as the least flawed option, however.

scenario 2: developers listen to feedback about [thing B] and make changes accordingly. the problems have been solved as much as possible. the experience is better, so there is no need to go back to [thing A].

which scenario is better? answer: || scenario 2 ||

vivid estuary
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there is no "fixing" the sound because both the volume and how you perceive the sound is entirely subjective

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you are saying lets remove the option to change arr because everyone should be playing arr 0 anyway

iron grotto
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what the actual fuck are you saying?

amber jackal
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the reason we are careful about toggles is not only what cyl has said, but also to avoid the config menu becoming a huge parameter dump

feral stump
# vivid estuary also i dont understand the development argument about toggles, when i open any g...

I agree with you about the argument about toggles. There are app development reasons behind why it isn't a good idea, but it also comes across as disingenuous to the end consumers especially given the desire of actual users to use mods to make aftermarket modifications where none was made available by the developers themselves. Clearly there is a demand for it, but because of philosophical design reasons that not all end users appreciate or understand, it feels like end users are punished and made to feel less-than for not understanding the ramifications of poor design philosophy.

iron grotto
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"philosophical design reasons"

you mean concrete design reasons?

feral stump
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i mean, design reasons live in the mind, and aren't a physical tangible product, so all design reasons are philosophical design reasons

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that is not to say that the reasons aren't real or compelling, they are, to the right audience, but to the general layperson it doesn't feel compelling

iron grotto
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????????????????????????????

amber jackal
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I'm gonna just steer this convo back on track here

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We don't just make toggles willy nilly

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we go though a process to decide them as needed

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the current tetrio config menu is a horrible clusterfuck with bad UX, which will be fixed in the redesign, but it means until then, we are careful not to just keep filling it up more and more

feral stump
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I get that toggles aren't a thing to be made willy nilly. I'm describing what the process feels like to an outsider that is being told about the internal processes that by all means it's totally fair for developers not to explain. So we're really getting a lot more insight into the developer mind than we typically have

amber jackal
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the point is, we want the game to present a certain way as well

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the more options you give, the more people can deviate from your design

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this is why allowing 100% grid opacity was a mistake, for example

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it looks really not good, and gives the game a bad look that we don't like, but it's a legal option in the game

feral stump
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It feels like how users of new mobile phones were complaining about button location redesigns and removal or inclusion of buttons, or removal of the earpiece 3.5mm jacks. End users in the end are the empirical dataset that tells developers whether they feel good or bad about a change. And when a developer says "we're not doing that because of (developer specific reasons)" it does not feel good to the end users that did not like that change and it feels disingenuous because a certain look was prioritised such as total removal of 3.5mm input jack.

amber jackal
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your choice of words comes off as pretentious by the way, in case you were curious

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anyway, let me just wrap this up, garbo told me he'd support a toggle for the audio cue, so this conversation is basically over

feral stump
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i'm not trying to be pretentious, i'm trying to be accurate in my description

amber jackal
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it will likely be added at some point sometime soon, but it's not 100% guaranteed

amber jackal
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you can try to be a certain way, doesn't mean it will not come off a different way

feral stump
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my bad, the intention isn't to rub devs the wrong way

feral stump
amber jackal
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I'm not rubbed the wrong way, just trying to let you know in case you're not a native speaker

amber jackal
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and that's that, really

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you might not like it

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it's a game, right? not a tool

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you know, if you told me the use of c minor for the floor 1 track was distracting or something (some people hate certain keys idk), I'm not really gonna do much for that

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I'm not gonna add a toggle to have a different musical key, for example

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making a toggle for every possible sound effect makes it just legal to completely change the game in critical design ways

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so we're careful on the options we give

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the unfortunate situation is that anyone opposed to the current sounds now are in the vocal minority, and some of it is from being resistant to change, some of it is genuine opinion, but either way there are far fewer complaints of the new audio cues

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like I said, we'll be looking into adding a toggle to disable the climb speed audio cues, but the sounds themselves are not going to change as of now. that's final, so this conversation is over

strong glade
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That’s a lot of messages

manic bear
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or osk idk

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oh is there a disagreement

feral stump
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In any case, the new-new sounds are a distinct improvement over the old-new sounds. I like how it blends more with the background now compared to the notification-like boop previously. Honestly wasn't expecting a change that quickly. Thanks Dr Ocelot for working on them

amber jackal
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over the past couple of days, i've spent a lot of time evaluating what the sounds are good for from an audio design perspective

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and the conclusion is that it was a miss in a lot of ways, so it will pretty much 100% move to a setting

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i think it is useful to give the players insight into what the actual evaluation lead to, so i'll just forward my internal message here:

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so, ive been doing a lot of thinking over the climb speed sounds in general, and whether they actually were a good design choice to begin with. as garbo had mentioned yesterday, the prior climb speeds for the majority were simply just not something that was really audible to them, and blended it more than i had expected. so, when we pushed sounds that were more recognizable, there were complaints. some of these complaints were due to the nature of the sound, some of them can reasonably be written off as "it's different so i don't like it", but regardless of these complaints, ive been thinking about it from an objective sound design analysis

the first thing to question is what the climb speed actually means to the player, and how much certain events matter. climb speed, as a mechanic, is vital to quick play because the multipliers you get from it can make or break your final altitude. it also serves as a really clever way to keep the more skilled players filtered to the top, and the lesser skilled players towards the bottom. however, that being said, the control the player actually has over the climbing speed is generally just how skilled their play is. if you take a mechanic like charging b2b, that requires actual decisions to ensure you keep it going, but climb speed doesn't require such decisions, it simply gets affected based on the overall skill

the second thing to note is what these new-new sounds were intended for from a design perspective, apart from just indicating a value has gone up or down:

  • upspeed: the little sting that goes with the music, can provide some kind of feeling of power or dopamine because of its consonance with the actual song that's playing, it goes along with it. every time you hear it, you know you're ranking up more and more in climbing speed.
  • downspeed: a double hit hard bass, which makes it feel as something not great is happening. it helps serves as a way to add stress to players that are hesistating, as they are bleeding climb speed because they cannot return to their flow quick enough. it serves as a catalyst to keep the action moving along, even if that means making a suboptimal decision because time is ticking.
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so, that's all well and good from a design perspective, but did it actually work in practice? well, it doesn't in quite a few ways, and those are the following:

  • every player has a soft ceiling on what their climb speed is going to be. there will always be a point for everyone where they just arent good enough to keep it increasing, and so what you will find is that the climb speed will ping-pong back and forth in a range. if this range includes a climb speed rank barrier, then the sounds aren't really useful at all, because having a ceiling is natural. some people will be unlucky enough for them to ping-pong right between the barrier of a rank, causing these sounds to play endlessly, even though it's not much different than ping-ponging between the middle of a rank, apart from a difference of one step of the multiplier.
  • the perceived volume of the sounds really depends on the BGM. many people play with the BGM, but many do not. for those with the BGM off, it has nothing to blend to. for those who are playing music with a different musical key, it can likely even be dissonant with the song that they're listening to, which is even worse.
  • climb speed, while vital, is not the end-all of the game. you can spam and get your climbing speed up really high, but if you don't have the skill to actually keep your stack in an advantageous position, it won't matter much. i imagine many people keep the idea of climb speed in the back of their minds, but they should really be stressing over their actual gameplay over that. why? well, because climb speed already just moves with skill. if you play skillfully, it will raise. if you don't, it will lower. it's significantly more important for them to ensure that they set themselves up for success, and them the high climb speed will naturally follow.
  • there are much more useful metrics to know how good you are doing. a common one when targetting a high altitude is to just look at the background or altitude number compared to your run's elapsed time.
  • people are more likely to just want to know what their speed is at a given point. because graphics are two-dimensional, we can put this information below the board, and they can just read that. it doesn't obstruct or get cluttered with anything, really. sound, however, is one dimensional, and the climbing speed indicator sounds have to share the same space as everything else in the game. but what's even worse than that is that they only indicate when your rank has changed, which is significantly less useful, because people are highly unlikely to count the ups and downs as if they're counting cards in a blackjack game, because they can just glance down at any time and know what the state of their climb speed is by the color or shapes. they'd rather have the game show their multiplier in plain text than to know when this value has changed at a point in time.
  • even with the pulsing, the sounds don't have a distinct visual indicator that ties them with something. this is why, even with the pulsing, many people don't actually know what the sounds are even for in the first place.
  • if you take something like the windup garbage sound, this sound is vitally important along with its visual indicator because it has a direct and extreme affect on what the player does next. the climb speed changing, however, doesn't really affect one's gameplay nearly as much at the moment it happens. it's more likely someone will see how low their speed is at a random point and go "oh man, i gotta pick up the pace".
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this is the conclusion of my evaluation

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the argument has kind of shifted to if such a toggle should be defaulted to off or on

wraith hill
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that's a well made evaluation, it voices a lot of points I wasn't concerned enough to mention, but glad they were thought of during the evaluation. My main concern ATM is with the downspeed sounding too punishing, which echos off the same points made in the evaluation about skill, skill ceiling, and the importance of climb speed (with focus biased towards the UX of new players, as these noises likely have a larger impact on their stress).

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As for the toggle, my opinion is that it should be defaulted to off, reasoning being the same as my argument on the UX of new players. I don't think climb speed is something they should be concerned about amongst everything else. Climb speed will naturally follow as a players skill improves. I don't think the users play should revolve around keeping the climb meter up, rather, it should be a reward for good play.

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although i will say I dislike the idea of a toggle to begin with. I'm not a fan of experiences being optional in games. A perfect world would be one where the feature is acceptable for all, but I understand how difficult that is especially with this

amber jackal
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if you're wondering why the tetrio team is so resistant to the "make it a toggle" any time an issue comes up, it's because it's not the best solution for a lot of things, we'd rather fine tune the experience above all

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and we don't want a huge parameter dump in the config menu

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and we don't want to add more situations the game has to account for willy nilly, etc

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however, there are times when we do a toggle out of the gate

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here's an example, in redesign, there's a feature where your piece can have a flashing yellow outline if your hold queue is locked

mint pollen
amber jackal
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because most players likely don't want that kind of an indicator

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but a select few will want that indicator, and it provides useful information, especially if you're someone who doesn't like grayed out pieces on hold locked

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then you have an alternate option where your active piece has a flashing yellow outline instead

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especially because you can know your opponent's hold status by looking at their general board since the active piece will be there and the outline pulses

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but most people won't want that as a default on, so it'll be default off

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actually, i do have an old video of this i can share since there's no real spoilers in it, from much earlier in the development of the new renderer

glad pebble
mint pollen
glad pebble
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idk i thought you had WSL at least

mint pollen
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oh, well the problem is that i wrote a message and Discord complained because i haven't got the expensive Nitro so i just sent it as a file instead and watched in horror as it broke all the wrapping lol

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didn't know about fold though!

glad pebble
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yeah i mean how difficult is it for them to just add word wrapping because as-is just shooting it into a file makes it very unpleasant to scroll horizontally through

obtuse swallow
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i think the new sounds are ok lol it's just the initial 1.7.0 that were like, real bad

amber jackal
mint pollen
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i use arch btw

amber jackal
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(lol)

obtuse swallow
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WSL comes with windows 11 no ?

glad pebble
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not necessarily

visual oar
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i use arch btw

manic bear
final pendant
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finally the thread is like ded

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dead*

glad pebble