#Tetra-league T-Spin combo openers - introduce playstyle matchmaking

381 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

limber frost
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Hello.
Please, when matching players for 1v1, take into account the average of t-spins they do casually.
As a player that goes and builds casually leaving a space for tetris, it is DEVASTATING to have a nerd that knows t-spin openers to spam me with 10 lines in the first seconds.
I understand as ranks go up the skill does as well, but even playing at 1.8-2 PPS against a t-spin combo only player with 1.3 PPS for example, it just isn't fair.
Please take into account playstyle and match players accordingly, as well as the rank they are in of course, as is now.
Thank you.

pastel flame
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skill issue

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ranked will be ranked

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and one of the things you have to deal with are people using openers

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  • many things in ranked are not fair. there will always be metas that are stronger than other strategies at the same level of play. think of it as rock paper scissors, there is always a counter-play
  • people are often at their rank for a reason; opener players also lose at their skill level. essentially splitting the queue between opener and non-opener also makes the ranking system less significant (how much better is an ss rank opener vs an ss rank everything else?)
  • it is very hard to determine whether a player is using a strong opener or just good in general; the logic of "kill openers" falls apart in higher ranks as openers get relatively weaker and weaker for their speed
  • openers arent the only playstyle percieved as overpowered. this does not take into account infdsers or apm spammers or etc.
  • the number of t-spins is not related to opener (unless in lower ranks.)
jagged ivy
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Also how is someone using a t-spin opener unfair?

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It's not like the game is preventing you from using one either

limber frost
# pastel flame skill issue

starting off with this says enough. if you dont care to contribute dont floor with bullets that are just filling up this section. my argument was - match playstyle. people who spam openers are using tspins and spam multiple lines when clearing 2. you arent providing this with something of value

surreal pier
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isnt the fun of a video game to figure out what strategy the opponent is doing and counterplaying them

limber frost
# jagged ivy This is more of a <#1020054329782186065> than an issue report But care to expan...

you are right, this is opened in the wrong channel.
other than that, simply, the playstyle comes to oldschool people just building and breaking lines on the right (burning stuff etc ofc), and from what i have experienced is a combination of that with t-spin spamming on pre-set openets that, me, of many other people, JUST DONT CARE enough to spent time to nerd out/learn by heart. i want to play with people who are oldschool and just build up, and tetris it. matching up to people like this, is just ruining my experience. would it be so hard to add a filter in the MM algorithm, for person A, that is to be matched with either B C D E, match them with C e.g., that has a t-spin ratio similar to A, that is most likely resulting to them having a same playstyle

tidal sundial
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you're providing a solution to a problem that dosent exist

limber frost
surreal pier
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im gonna be honest, if you don't want to get better, then you deserve the skill bracket you're placed in, no?
if you get matched against tspinners, only reason to be proud of yourself, managing to keep your head up against the more effective but also greedier and harder tspins. other playstyles can exist, you dont have to take them but wanting them gone would only make the game lame

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not just for people at the top, but for you too

limber frost
# tidal sundial you're providing a solution to a problem that dosent exist

according to me it exists (?), because as this unkind dude @pastel flame said in the begining, it is skill issue. and it IS. because my skill does not include having the knowledge and habbit to play as a T-spin opener person does. i dont wanna match with them, even though if i can beat them by tryharding. why cant i play with someone who plays like i do, but has similar stats?

limber frost
jagged ivy
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You can get pretty far without t-spins though

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I didnt learn them until U rank outside of memorized openers

limber frost
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i am playing tetris for lets say 10 years like this. tetrio has a combo system that it is what it is, it rewards to people as it is decided. why do i have to match with people who play like this?

jagged ivy
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even without openers i was SS without them

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quad/tetris spam app is around .55-.65 if done correctly with downstacking

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SS/U rank app is around that point

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its only until like 24k+ tr where players can t-spin more efficiently than quad spamming

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And in TL where people define playstyle its never about t-spins

limber frost
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t-spins are seen from A to SS ranks in my experience. my max rank is S and i am constantly matching with people who spam my in 4 seconds with 10 lines. i want to play tetris with opponents. why do i need to play against that when i am not providing that? this is a different playstyle. is it so hard to be recognized as a point?

jagged ivy
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personally with 7-bag + 5 piece previews+ hold

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tetris/quad spamming is intermediate skill at best

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game is very boring

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T-spins add that extra layer of complexity and depth

surreal pier
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but openers are free tetrises to send back if you play into them

jagged ivy
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you have to efficently cycle both piece_t and piece_i in eahc bag

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instead of only piece_i

limber frost
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bro, not only people who spend more than 1h a day play this. you are referring to an amount of people that want to grind and make this their everyday enjoyment. i dont want to learn anything else new to playing tetris. i want to be matched, with people, who play, like ME. OLD SCHOOL.

tidal sundial
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can't you just host a public lobby and just disable tspins if you hate them this much

jagged ivy
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where 3-4 wide combo stacks were the meta

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not evne tetris spamming

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PPT too i guess

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where 4-wide combo stacks was the meta

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if you're talking about classic its a completely different kind of game

limber frost
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i dont know what PPT is mate, i am not debating about something else than people being able to play with common playstyle

jagged ivy
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PPT came out 10 years ago

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so uh

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puyo puyo tetris

limber frost
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i understand that you are a guy who plays like this. do you enjoy winning against people who need to play like speedy gonzalez to have a change breaking through your 4 sec spam of 10 lines by doing a combo you spent time learning offline? what is this?

surreal pier
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i mean we can discuss this for a while but the essence is you dont want to learn t-spins. which is fair, ive heard this sentiment before. i don't agree with it, i find them fun, but that's a personal thing
however, expecting the entire rating system to be adjusted to your personal (nonstandard) wish is sadly not a thing we can accomodate. the reality is that for most players, the ability to take any playstyle they can think of at any match is the fun of games

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i dont generally believe in matchmaking being limited to playstyles

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outside of specific modes ig

limber frost
surreal pier
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you are assuming every single player wants to only be matched against their own playstyle

limber frost
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you are right, i am. but since you are right, this could be an option with a tickbox then 😄 similar to e.g. having crossplatform on in some FPS games. does that make sense?

pastel flame
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it's not like you're the only one affected by matchmaking

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so as you are giving a request (not an bug or issue, by the way, this should be a feature request as said before) i am giving my side on why this wont work and why it shouldnt be implemented

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also one more thing- im not being unkind, this is just a game that everyone here loves and you are now saying that "this is not how i used to play tetris. i have played for 10 years." this is a completely different game from what you play, so why do you now complain that the base game should be changed for your own sake?

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go play something else if it bothers you that much tbh, its like switching from csgo to overwatch and saying "players shouldnt be able to fly across the map, thats a broken mechanic"

limber frost
# pastel flame go play something else if it bothers you that much tbh, its like switching from ...

you saying this is exactly why you do not understand how you are being rude or unkind as you wanted to call it. and once again, you are stating facts that we all know but just type in order to type.
this topic is answered by @surreal pier . it will not something that can be accommodated as not many people care - like me, care to raise it.
i did not expect people to really care, or get answers other than sarcastic or rude comments like u gave, but fuck it why not try to raise it anyway.
cheers.

pastel flame
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lol ok

wise sorrel
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Not a whole playstyle but more of a slight change in how you play

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Happened to me then i got better
I used to only main 9-0 striding and i was stuck in B+ rank for some time
Then after i had a coach teach me how to centerwell and implement t spins into my attacks, which brought me up to S-
More practice and a handling change and now im S+

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I still 9-0 but now i have other things added to my arsenal, like t-spins and centerwelling

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You quite literally want to make a checkbox that takes off a part of the arsenal.

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Thats like playing ranked matches in call of duty but all ARs are removed and are put in another set of ranked games that are only for ARs

tidal sundial
pulsar cloud
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you don't need to worry about rating, you can play just for fair matches. if your matches are unfair right now and keep losing to t-spinners and opener mains, you will find fairer opponents.

sleek quail
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i do wonder how feasible this suggestion is anyways

neat jungle
sleek quail
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is it possible to group all players into set "playstyle" boxes?

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and also unlike the platform you play on you can change your playstyle on a whim

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wouldnt be easy to enforce unless new rulesets were added per matchup

neat jungle
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It doesn’t take more than an hour a day to slowly incorporate more

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I believe there are people here who have less than that amount of time as well

trim coral
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It’s modern Tetris

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Maybe there’s some other Tetris that has 1v1s with an old school system

pastel flame
limber frost
wise sorrel
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For ex

image-16.png
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They can also change

image-63.png
limber frost
# wise sorrel Well people have multiple playstyles

thats true. but some have one. e.g., since it is a big factor to t-spin or not, after playing 100 games you could average on 3.3 tspins per match for example. i could average on 0.1. if we have the same elo, i dont really think i have a chance against you if i know that by default you will start spamming me insta

jagged ivy
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As I said before, most players dont know how to t-spin effieciently enough

wise sorrel
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You want matchmaking based off T-spins only or by playstyle?

jagged ivy
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to stomp on quad spam

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until around 24k and higher

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before that you can easily just tetris spam and win matches

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but your point is you dont want to face t-spinners at all

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so its just means you theoricially want a separate game mode

wise sorrel
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Which is nearly impossible to just do

limber frost
wise sorrel
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No they're not

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You can counter openers

limber frost
jagged ivy
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since you can just afk tank openers at the start

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and just ds

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or build a quad and ds

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and survive opener phase just fine

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without t-spins

limber frost
wise sorrel
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If you match people who play like you your matches will be extremely long

jagged ivy
wise sorrel
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Its not even that hard to learn either??

limber frost
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this can be easily become reality taking into account a simple average number. no one is disallowed to tspin ingame, but if you average 10 tspins in a long match and i average on 1, i could be matched with a person who averages to 2 or 3, if they are available as an alternative to be matched with while searching.

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you guys, you are both trying to convince me of something that is different to what i am requesting. i understand your points, but this is like (a dumb example to explain our situation) - trying to treat the symptom, not the root "issue"

wise sorrel
jagged ivy
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It's probably better to switch to a different game

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like classic tetris

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where you face others and try to win via a higher score

wise sorrel
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Even so the amount of t-spins you do can vary depending on your opponent

jagged ivy
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tetris effect has score attack mode for this iirc

limber frost
# wise sorrel In *one* match?

no. whole career of online play-time, lets say ive played a total of 100 games. by tspin average would keep being a statistic, same as PPS, my ELO, ranking... etc..

wise sorrel
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That still won't work

limber frost
wise sorrel
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When new people start at the bottom of the ladder, they likely have no experience with modern tetris at all

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And would learn normal striding

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And some others would just instantly want to get into t-spinning (with no knowledge of how to maintain a board state)

wise sorrel
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Then wants to learn t-spinning

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He learns it and uses it well for about 8 games

limber frost
wise sorrel
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Compared to the other hundreds of games where he didn't t-spin

limber frost
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thats great! if he keeps on doing this, next match he will start getting matched with people that plays like that also. and as he improves, he keeps on having them

jagged ivy
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what piggy wrote earlier

image.png
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and like what i said you basically want an entire new game mode

limber frost
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the average of tspins for a player would still get updated as every stat of a player does. the whole suggestion is matching tspin average for matching an opponent together with other stats that are taken into account already.

jagged ivy
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you basically want a mode where t-spins are disabled for having bonuses

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but that breaks the balance between b2b and combos

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combos will be extremly broken

limber frost
wise sorrel
jagged ivy
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thats no simple

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not*

limber frost
wise sorrel
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The one you want to implement

limber frost
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how?

limber frost
jagged ivy
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because it goes against what osk wrote

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earlier

limber frost
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quote

jagged ivy
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and like i said it will break game balance, which basically warrants a separate queue/mode.

limber frost
# jagged ivy

i have answered to this before. please scroll up and read the whole convo, if you are interested in this

wise sorrel
# limber frost how?

Ok well lets say our example player plays for about two years
Over this time hes played thousands of games.
If this person JUST NOW were to start t-spinning, he'd still get paired with quad spammers or striders because his radio is probably something like .00000000000736 tspins for ALL of the games hes played

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Hed have to play for another 2 years maining t-spins for him to actually have fair matchmaking

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And the amount of t-spins you can do per match really varies on how the other player plays

limber frost
# jagged ivy and like i said it will break game balance, which basically warrants a separate ...

is this what he is saying? are you sure? read it again
it would actually introduce a better balance - think of it - new players would actually have a more gradual experience matching up with people who have 1000s of matches and just play modern tetris, while at the same time people like me who choose to not play like that, have the ability to compete and have a fair time playing this maintaining my own style and not being forced to change anything to match a person's performance that is "arguably" resulting with less effort/speed/precision of what i am providing on my end

wise sorrel
neat jungle
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How difficult is it to look at a few pictures from a simple forum page

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And matchmaking is called matchmaking for a reason

limber frost
jagged ivy
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This basically reminds me of how some players in games have a self-enforced rule.

For example Smash Melee player None has a rule of using as little knee attacks as possible(none -> no-ne -> no-knee)

You're basically asking for self-enforced rules to be placed onto everyone else. Altenratively you're asking for a different game mode. How else am i suppose to intepret this?

wise sorrel
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A new account?

limber frost
# wise sorrel A new account?

if this is actually reported as an issue, which lets say - if what i am requesting now is rare, imagine how rare your case will be.

if though this is a factor, you can have this be reset monthly. of when your rank resets from inactivity. it is that simple

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in that scenario, both your case is covered, both mine is in long term, and everyone is glad.

jagged ivy
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there are peopel who dont tetris or t-spin

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they spam combos

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etc

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it's a different experience facing a plonker, an inf dser, a strider, a cheese spammer etc

limber frost
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you are not having a new game or mode. it is basically improving who you are matched against

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improving matchmaking balance. not disabling any feature of the experience for anyone.

jagged ivy
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except you kinda are restricting

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and i dont see how its an improvement

surreal pier
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this thread is still going?

wise sorrel
wise sorrel
limber frost
wise sorrel
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This guy's a bit stubborn, no offense

jagged ivy
limber frost
limber frost
limber frost
wise sorrel
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And take them off the leaderboard?

limber frost
wise sorrel
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Ive never been unranked so i have no idea.

limber frost
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if you are inactive for an amount of time that happens, yes

wise sorrel
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Then thats a dead account

limber frost
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i have been more than 2-3 times

sleek quail
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how would other factors affect this supposed tspin matchmaking?

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say speed for example

limber frost
# wise sorrel Then thats a dead account

not exactly - not being an expert on the specifics taken into account around this - but once you come back and start to compete, i believe your new rank is calculated based on your previous one, plus your average performance on the new 10 placement matches that you played/

wise sorrel
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So then what happens to that t-spin ratio?

limber frost
sleek quail
limber frost
wise sorrel
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I dont think your elo gets reset
Does it..?

limber frost
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same principle at least - considering this out of the blue

sleek quail
sleek quail
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tetrio doesnt use stat-based matchmaking

limber frost
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i am not sure on the mechanics. i know you lose your rank, and i know e.g., that if i play a match and win it after 1 month of inactivity, i will get close to 800 points, when being active i would get 90-250 for example and such.

limber frost
sleek quail
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because tspins do not determine skill

wise sorrel
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THANK YOU

limber frost
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have you read all the conversation we had with the guys, or a part of it @sleek quail ?

limber frost
sleek quail
sleek quail
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on the profile

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only the glicko is taken into account

limber frost
limber frost
# sleek quail stats as in pps, apm, vs

ok - because the next question would be what do you define as a stat, as in order to be MATCHED with somebody an amount of variable(s) should be taken into account

jagged ivy
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thats just glicko and rd

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range

sleek quail
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the glicko should be enough?

jagged ivy
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like piggy said theres no stat based matchmaking

sleek quail
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its the purest expression of your skill in the game

jagged ivy
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more wins = more glicko

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And I dont get the reasoning behind wanting a restrictive queue against similar players. like i said before you can get very far with tetris spamming

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even against t-spinners

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😔

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its different playstyles versus another

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better skill wins

sleek quail
limber frost
# jagged ivy thats just glicko and rd

okay, i am not a dev and i have no knowledge/ability to confirm on what is taken into account for the matchmaking of 2 people. my suggestion was adding another parameter that is improving balance.. which does not imo totally exist in case of a new person experiencing too quick garbage from another having a head start to the game by nerding out all the openers and is used to tspining as a norm, and to oldschool people like myself who traditionally build (burn if needed, and downstack) and go on to tetris as normal

wise sorrel
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This is redoing TL

limber frost
jagged ivy
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you want to queue only against other "oldschool" players

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how is that not restrictive

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In such a queue of no t-spins you wont win with tetris spamming

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it will be combo stacks

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like how it was 10 years ago

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and how the majority of hte community hated it

limber frost
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my bad read that too quickly - if a person wants to change their way of play they always can.. in that way your sats are changed and new people are matched against you.. matching your new playstyle

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you need to take into account the total of the players, not a part of them, average or big. you arent playing the game on your own, and neither am i. no one should be selfish here, and no one should be encouraged to take it or leave it, and try a new game if this currently isnt matching their preferences. the ability for people to speak their mind exists here for people to do so. you can not forbid me to say my opinion and provide arguments on why i believe it is right or not

jagged ivy
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¯_(ツ)_/¯

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game is balanced between combos versus b2b

eliminating t-spins of the b2b will make combos extremely broken

wise sorrel
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4w

jagged ivy
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games like tetrio and jstris sprouted out because the 15-20 years of modern tetris pvp they refused to fix combos

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surprisely they fixed it in TEC

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but its kidna late since tetrio and jstris playerbase bascially outgrew

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im just saying its not a popular opinion. And breaking this balance will require a new game mode.

Inthis theoricical queue of no t-spins playstyles only

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combos will be very broken

limber frost
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nothing is suggested to be eliminated..... from what you can do ingame. if you wanna make jesus 2D and then downstack and beat me religious style GO for it 😄 i am only suggesting that people will be matched based on a hugely affecting factor of the game. thats it...

jagged ivy
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yeah so you want a restrictive queue or a separated playerbase specifically for that mode

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anyways this is going in circles so im gonna stop

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you're free to your opinions

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im just confused/dont get it

wise sorrel
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Game will still be the same

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If your concept is this complicated then itll be such a big bother for a sole dev (osk) to implement. Not to mention hes working on tetrio probably as we're having this conversation

sleek quail
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well i think the main thing with this request is that "playstyle" at all levels isnt as guaranteed as skill

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what if no one in your range plays just like you?

limber frost
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mate, the only point to stick to is: improve balance with a variable that is constantly updated and can be reset. this will allow similar gamestyle to be matched. IF YOU CHANGE your gamestyle, your variable will change, and you will start getting matched with others. nothing is final, you will keep having a change playing with a guy who tspins more or less than you. but at least, IN A DEGREE.

limber frost
# sleek quail what if no one in your range plays just like you?

then if not, i am fine to play with the person who has the closest next variable matching my own. if i have avg 0.1 and the availables for matching are 5, 6, 10, match me with the 5. this would not kill your guys experience, but it would simply improve mine. and of other players that are new to the whole logic and adapting their way gradually at it.

wise sorrel
limber frost
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i do honestly actually think that this is placed on the right thread tree actually. originally i admitted being mistaken to not adding this to a feature request. if you come to think of this in the bigger picture, it is actually a balance issue that not only me as an oldschool player (for my reasons is facing), but this is actually also altering with the experience of the new people coming to the game. being obliterated by tspin garbage spam. i would believe that they need balance more than i do, and i know for a fact i do.. 😄

wise sorrel
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If this was an issue, this thread would've been made years ago

limber frost
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you cant just assume that - imo

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if a new person is discouraged from the gameplay, he will not bother to make a thread and raise it. do you want to kick that player away, or give him a more fair change to gradually level up in the game?

wise sorrel
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Id tell that person to just practice and try to improve on the game

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Which is how they will level up

limber frost
# wise sorrel Id tell that person to just practice and try to improve on the game

i would agree. i would also tell them that, if they wished to spend time on the game and grind it in that level. but that doesnt answer the fact that you claimed - if this was an issue, this thread would be made years ago. because if you follow my example, the person creating that thread would might already have given up and not cared enough to even report it

wise sorrel
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..?

limber frost
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?

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whats your question?

wise sorrel
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Im having a stroke reading this

limber frost
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call 991

wise sorrel
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Im not obv

limber frost
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😄

wise sorrel
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Can you elaborate

sleek quail
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ah well if glicko takes precedence then theres not much different from normal matchmaking

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i just think the logic to get here is a bit flawed lol

wise sorrel
sleek quail
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in terms of matchmaking fairness

wise sorrel
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Nobody here discorages other players

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If the game discourages the player and they want to improve, they can talk in #tetrio·general and ask for improvement in #921928025929576468 (given the fact that they're specific in what they want to improve in)

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If they dont want to improve then oh well, they're going to be stuck in the same rank

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If they see gameplay and run away in fear, then thats that

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It happens with all games that show competitiveness

limber frost
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you are turning this to a completely different matter. all i am asking is that people are introduced gradually to next levels. can we agree to this point and not a different one for the sake of discussion economy - to save time?

sleek quail
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technically according to their description theyll still be getting fair glicko matches

wise sorrel
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Isnt that what the - and + ranks are for?

limber frost
limber frost
sleek quail
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or at least what you perceive it as

wise sorrel
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It dosent

sleek quail
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most people just have a problem with the tspins = skill/better thing

limber frost
# sleek quail i think a lot of people here have stated that balance issue doesnt exist

the number of people is not the major factor to be taken into account in this. it takes one idea... if we all had the best ideas... lets not turn this to a political conversation. my point is that because not everyone agrees it doesnt mean that because the most people disagree, i am wrong. it is a matter of perspective, judgement, and which end are you looking this from. does it really affect you to give it the corresponding attention, or simply contribute with that can be an easy version of handling the original request. i believe that this isnt maturely examined by the total of people, and is encountered by a just - "just get good and play as we play buddy" vibe. but of course it is what it is

wise sorrel
limber frost
wise sorrel
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No

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Just saying that other guy was apart of what piggy was saying

limber frost
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alright... well, that is a big thing to say and i am not saying that. but that does prove my point that i am not the only one having the preference of playing like that, and wanting to have a match similar to my playstyle because i find tspins/openers masivelly affecting my experience when facing a guy who knows what he is doing.

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my suggestion is not destroying anyones experience, introduces balance, and is reversible as you play/dont play. i really do not find the reason why you guys do not support and welcome it, and instead opose to it like it is going to break the game or something, to be frank with you, but in the end of the day it is what it is, once again. 🙂

wise sorrel
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To be realistic, it wouldn't prevent the game from being playable. However, it would be very confusing for old players and people who have played the game for a while

wise sorrel
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I think even someone below his rank as well..? Not sure

limber frost
limber frost
sleek quail
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what if you win against tspin and openers while not using them?

limber frost
wise sorrel
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Because that would break your idea of fair matchmaking

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That dude would be at the top of the ladder if he keep queueing against t-spinners and openers

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If he also wins people that dont do that well then i say he should be up that ladder

limber frost
# wise sorrel Because that would break your idea of fair matchmaking

no man, it would not brake anything. dont just bring points without justifying for them, explain your claim and prove it as a valid point, dont just bring up a point and wait for people to disprove it, we are busy proving out points individually.. if you have an established idea, just present it...

limber frost
wise sorrel
#

You do have a point there, he would be swapped to non openers and t-spinners

limber frost
#

yeah.. that would be, ideally.. the concept. that is correct

wise sorrel
#

Well what if someone equally uses openers as well as striding?

limber frost
#

he will have a corresponding value. the concept of this improvement is related to tspins, occuring to openers - of course. if he uses that equally, he will have a corresponding tspin ratio average value, and that will be matched to the corresponding one.

#

or the next available

wise sorrel
#

The tspin value will be 0 though

#

Because this guy dosent t-spin

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He just openers

limber frost
#

isnt the opener's point to create ideal environment for tspinning? im sorry, i must be getting something wrong

wise sorrel
#

The openers point is to send a lot of garbage at the start of the game

limber frost
#

using t spins. no?

wise sorrel
#

Not all openers need a tspin

#

Pco and grace system exist

neat jungle
#

yuimetal

wise sorrel
#

Some openers use t-spins, like sdpc and dt cannon, but not all

limber frost
#

alright. then the subject applies to the ones abusing tspin spam as i understand. i am not the most experienced person around them, i dont use them. what i know is, tspin spam, openers - close concept, not same one of course. my whole point is around tspins anyway...

wise sorrel
#

So just openers that use t-spins?

neat jungle
#

wasn't t-spinning meant to be a stacking method instead of a line clear back in classic?

limber frost
#

do not emphasize on openers. just that they help tspin spam in the beginning. all the point is clearing 2 lines easily and cause a spam to a person who doesnt play like that/isnet used to it, being in the same rank/level, and matched against them. that happens with tspins, please lets focus on that

limber frost
wise sorrel
#

T-spinning is very hard to do in classic tetris

neat jungle
#

But not impossible

wise sorrel
neat jungle
#

It's been an existing factor for a long time tho

#

I mean t-spins

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Not saying they're ideal, but people have been doing them since the early years

wise sorrel
#

Fair

wise sorrel
sleek quail
past shadow
#

anyway, the game already places people in a given rank based on the overall averaged result of their playstyle

#

a person doing 9-0 with 1.2 pps and no t-spins no SRS spins will be around C+/B-

past shadow
# past shadow

but as someone who went from ~19500 to 24469 i'd say i've changed my playstyle at least 4 times in order to get better

#

if i hadn't, I'd still be the same rank.. and due to inflation maybe lower.

neat jungle
#

Everyone’s coming into here 😓

past shadow
#

hi

pulsar cloud
#

suppose you're playing chess and you don't know how to play against the sicilian defense or something, and you basically only can play 4 knights (this was me when i was playing chess)
and so since you don't know the opener theory, you keep losing to it
there are 2 ways this can go

  1. nothing changes: accept that you have a lower rating, which will match you up against weaker players who probably don't know many openers
  2. split queues galore: chess.com decides to split the queue by what kind of openers players do. now there are, like, at least 5 matchmakers, and you cannot compare ratings anymore cuz the queue is split

chess.com obviously will not do that, cuz it's dumb. the rating has a purpose (so you can be ranked against everybody), openers do reflect skill cuz you are committing to the inner workings of the game, and it's up to you if you care about it or not
it is pointless to demand that chess should only be played with the 4 knights defense, or that there should be a separate queue for people who play 4 knights. it's literally how the game works. just go to a lower rating where people do play 4 knights.

same thing with tetr.io. openers and t-spins are skill. memorization, yes, but skill. if you don't do them even when they make sense, you are less skilled because you are not putting time into a skill the game requires by nature.

frozen thistle
#

One of the few times where the wall of text just makes sense

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Osk isn't going to implement an overly convoluted matchmaking system that's both slower and undermines the existence of the rating system in general just cause people memorized some opener

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The game itself requires loads of time and analysis for any amount of significant improvement and if you're getting angry that some random guy spent a day or few learning an opener, mind you, you yourself not asking any questions on how to counter, I feel like that's more of a you problem

#

Call me shortsighted or ignorant but I feel like this whole thread didn't need to exist if you asked some questions jessShrug

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Though reading the past messages gives me the "they're better than me and I don't like it" vibes

Edit: If possible I would like landmarks to every major argument against my claims that t-spins are perfectly fine

surreal pier
#

their argument is "I want to play without tspins because that's how old Tetris is that's how I remember it from the game boy"

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which isn't a super strange or uncommon argument but ... kinda in the wrong place

frozen thistle
#

Ah I see

#

I mean... That's kinda what modern isn't in the first place

wise sorrel
limber frost
#

i mean, i could go on and answer to all those replies but you guys are all seeing this from the same point of view and are opposed to the idea because it isnt what you are all used to playing like the last years as it simply gets you to win, which is of course fine, and it is what it is

#

i know there wont be a change implemented because no one here cares to acknowledge the facts i am presenting, but just for the sake of not leaving things drop i will for one last time try to sum up the points for the people who didnt wanna read all the chat:

tspins (used from openers to not, doesnt matter) - you need to clear 2 lines to send 4. people who dont know that have a disadvantage. people who arent used to playing like that, have a disadvantage. people who can build what they knew from game boy as tetris but are known to the 1v1 tetris idea and have been playing like that for years, if they match with people like that, are in disadvantage.

having all those facts live for such players are allowing a balance? imo, no. can we fix it? yes. add one fucking variable that matches a person to another, averaging off of tspin ratio per a person's career matches. can this be reset? absolutely. is this game breaking? it isnt. this has been discussed above.

is this suggested improvement going to truly matter for everyone? no. this would help NEW players have a gradual learning curve, not be beat to the ground by tspins, and oldschool players, being matched to similar playstyle, OR normal tspin openers/users. it not a similay playstyle opponent is found.

does this help with BALANCE in matchmaking? PLEASE. tell me how it does not HELP with balance, taking all those factors into account.

all the arguments of type: "buddy, just learn something new, thats how you get better, thats how you are going to the next level", etc, are correct.
all the sarcastic comments or the ones like, i am superman incarnated and i beat you cause i am UwU rank with my left foot, just do it as i did it and learn some openers, are not helping this conversation, imo. my point is strictly only around improving matchmaking balance, and for this i have provided facts.

cheers 🙂

pastel flame
#

it does not help with balance. this is taking rock out of rock paper scissors

#

go play something else if you dont like tspins

#

wait until you find out about pc spam

full arch
#

ohyah, blitz is ruined because of this lol

wise sorrel
#

tspins (used from openers to not, doesnt matter) - you need to clear 2 lines to send 4. people who dont know that have a disadvantage. people who arent used to playing like that, have a disadvantage.

New players out of anyone are of course going to have a very giant lack in knowlege of the game mechanics. This can apply to almost any game. Tetrio is no different to this. This game is going to be different from the ones others played on the gameboy or NES. Thats because this game is a completely different form of tetris.

people who can build what they knew from game boy as tetris but are known to the 1v1 tetris idea and have been playing like that for years, if they match with people like that, are in disadvantage.

They will most likely not get matched with people like that. Sure if they start getting into ranked they might encounter an A or a rank around there, but after the 10 placement games are done, they're going to be somewhere down the ladder (D rank or something like C- rank)

is this suggested improvement going to truly matter for everyone? no. this would help NEW players have a gradual learning curve, not be beat to the ground by tspins, and oldschool players, being matched to similar playstyle, OR normal tspin openers/users. it not a similay playstyle opponent is found.

New players can improve by learning more about the game. Just as i did when i started playing a few months ago. I was beat to the ground by t-spins, yes. But, i learned more about this games mechanics and i improved. Thats how i got higher up the ladder and got S+ rank. If people whove played NES tetris and other forms of tetris come here and decide they dont like this kind of tetris, then they can play something else or they can just try and get used to this type of tetris.
If players were matched with the same playstyle, playstyles like infds and plonking would just last too long and cause a major inconvinience. T-spinning isnt a playstyle, its just a form of attack. (1/?)

pastel flame
#

1/? is wild

wise sorrel
#

shut up let me finish/nm

harsh phoenix
open tiger
#

t spins are a skill that is a part of modern tetris

#

learn to use them or fight them with other methods

wise sorrel
# wise sorrel > tspins (used from openers to not, doesnt matter) - you need to clear 2 lines t...

does this help with BALANCE in matchmaking? PLEASE. tell me how it does not HELP with balance, taking all those factors into account.

Every playstyle changes how the game is played, and when these playstyles crash into one another, its very fun to see what the outcome is and how one player counters the other and vice versa, If you match players with themselves, the game will quickly get stale and its going to force other players that main an opener to try and opener harder in order to beat their opponent. Same goes with every other playstyle. how tetra league works now rewards players for learning more about the game and learning new playstyles, which is how players go up the ladder. If this was changed to your preference, players that already adapt to and play multiple playstyles are most likely going to be forced to play one playstyle. This is very restricting to those players. This will also give new players a very hard learing curve, seeing as they are forced to choose a playstyle in order to properly play TL instead of finding out about the game, then learning mechanics, then starting with stacking and the such. Even players that are transitioning playstyles will still be forced into the one they used to play as a lot.

This REALLY seems like something that only pleases a few people. This would call for an entirely different form of league, which could be tl but having the same mechanics as NES tetris or Gameboy tetris.

open tiger
#

where's the 2/? /j

full arch
#

we can send walls of text all day but this always seems to happen whenever anyone suggests ingame stat based matchmaking

full arch
#

i don't think it's productive to keep this thread open anymore

pastel flame
#

true

#

this thread was LQ to begin with

full arch
#

as always i'd like to remind you that tetr.io uses industry standard matchmaking
it aims to be an absolute matchmaking experience, which means if you're losing ½ of your matches, it's working as intended

Glicko rating system

The Glicko rating system and Glicko-2 rating system are methods of assessing a player's strength in zero-sum two-player games. The Glicko rating system was invented by Mark Glickman in 1995 as an improvement on the Elo rating system and initially intended for the primary use as a chess rating system. Glickman's principal contribution to measurem...

open tiger
harsh phoenix
#

no way you self reacted

full arch
#

so, even assuming the higher ranks have players who don't tspin to matchmake you with, you're going to be outsped (without tspins, all that's left is brute speed and people will outclass you there too. it won't feel great either way)

harsh phoenix
#

but yeah close the thread this discussion aint going anywhere

open tiger
#

go ahead

full arch
full arch