Mouse movement/control like TE:C or PPT

[topaz prairie]

After being made aware of certain Tetris.com facts, I've changed my request to instead be to add mouse control that upholds competitive integrity.

Tetris.com offers mouse control and it works just fine, here's a video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEPsoZGjHsM
I think it would be great to have this implemented on TETR.IO, I am sure that I wouldn't be the only one to use it if it were added, otherwise it feels like TETR.IO is excluding mouse players. Tetris.com, Puyo Puyo Tetris 2, and Tetris Effect all offer mouse control to players, and players who come from these platforms (including new players who started on and are familiar with mouse control) would probably like to be able to use this.
As for difficulty of implementation o, someone in a different thread argued that this would somehow be extremely difficult to implement. I want to address this before anyone else posts it. I think this claim is utterly baseless and unfounded; every PC on the planet is already capturing mouse input and using this input to control games on PC is something that is supported by almost every game on PC. Tetris.com is a js browser game and it accomplishes mouse control just fine without any problems, so the argument that this is somehow borderline impossible to implement is extremely poor at best, absurd and entirely wrong at worst.

[autumn copper]

Before I start, I'd like to ask why this wasn't posted in https://discord.com/channels/673303546107658242/1144488657428955267 as this acts as a dupe.

I feel like the problem here isn't feasibility, but rather viability. If you want to stand for the other players on it being a legitimate control set, I'm not gonna argue with you any further. That said, I don't know any Tetris players that play with mouse, let alone anyone that would claim it as viable — and reliable — for versus play.

Outside of this, a lot of the other stackers out there, past and present, don't support mouse — this includes Tetris Friends and Battle from the Guideline fleet, and the variations on Tetris Online Japan (which was kind of a client version of Tetris Friends).

[topaz prairie]

I'd like to ask why this wasn't posted in Mouse control. as this acts as a dupe.

The other thread was asking for simple mouse click keybindings without actual movement implementation, I felt that this deserved its own thread since its a different feature. I don't think adding mouse buttons but no mouse movement is useful, because if you're going to play with only buttons, it doesn't really matter if the buttons are on the keyboard or the mouse in my opinion. If you only have the ability to use the mouse buttons and not the mouse movement, you may as well just bind those button presses to the right side of your keyboard. I am requesting something different.

That said, I don't know any Tetris players that play with mouse, let alone anyone that would claim it as viable — and reliable — for versus play.

One of the reasons why you don't see it much is due to the fact that it hasn't been widely supported until recently, and Tetrio is an example of this continuing into the future. A player I personally know who is new and is coming from Tetris Effect and Tetris.com prefers the mouse control but has decided that it would be better for him to try to get better at keyboard controls not because it's what he prefers, but because he realizes that mouse control is not completely ubiquitous yet. In order for him to compete on Tetrio he would need to entirely change his control scheme. He is not considering this out of personal choice, it is merely due to artificial limitations that are sadly carrying over into Tetrio.

[topaz prairie]

Your statement on viability for tournament play is literally due to to the longstanding limitations of control that have excluded mouse: older PC titles like Tetris Zone didn't make it an option. There also just weren't that many quality Tetris titles on PC. So thus, for the moment, a lot of tetris players are coming from consoles where the only usable option is buttons, so obviously the top players are going to be skilled at buttons and are thus going to be uninterested in mouse control due to the fact they would have to learn an entire new control set, practice it, and become skilled at it. There's no incentive for longstanding Tetris players to do this. In contrast, we are starting to get new players who are learning to play on the mouse, so thus for a mouse player it's the OPPOSITE problem. The inverse is true for a player who has been playing on modern PC title with the mouse. I encourage you to watch the video again as the player in the video was entirely capable of playing well with mouse control. Mouse Tetris is viable for players who prefer the control scheme and choose to practice on it instead of buttons.

Outside of this, a lot of the other stackers out there, past and present, don't support mouse — this includes Tetris Friends and Battle from the Guideline fleet, and the variations on Tetris Online Japan (which was kind of a client version of Tetris Friends).

And it's a problem. It has slowed the progression of mouse control as a viable way to play Tetris, and then when this is brought up the argument is simply that nobody uses it but the reason why this is the case is because it has been overwhelmingly unavailable until recently. This is beginning to be rectified.

Sorry for the long post

[cosmic heath]

Chat gpt ahh

[topaz prairie]

Look it's the "I can't counter anything you said so instead I'm just going to level baseless accusations against you" fallacy.

[cosmic heath]

Darn
Why the aggression

[silver hawk]

it’s not even written in chatgpt style-

it’s just a really long response

[autumn copper]

To be fair, that's pretty uncalled for from the both of you (not you mcm)

Anyways. I don't have any opposition against this suggestion, just wish it was consolidated and built on the aforementioned post I linked but ultimately that's on Zap on if he wants to merge it into the other post. My only concern is that it can introduce a new level of striding and auto-placement shenanigans that can introduce a super oddball skill curve given TETR.IO is a No Limit platform by default, but we can cross that bridge when we get there and talk more detail about it.

[topaz prairie]

Apologies. I didn't meant to reply in such a manner.

[topaz prairie]

Thanks for your reply and input, I greatly appreciate it. I really think mouse is a valid control scheme and I really believe it needs implemented.

[faint rivet]

So TEC has mouse control options? That's new news to me.

The sad reality is. Outside of Tetris.com for the past 20-25 years, all of the TTC games do not have mouse control.

TETRIO is NOT a TTC game and does not have an incentive to spend time adding mouse controls.

Unfortunately for discord, you can't see closed feature requests. But on https://github.com/tetrio/issues/issues you can see the ones posted there.

The truth is no one uses mouse controls, there's no push for such a feature request, so even if it's feasible, it's likely a non-priority.

[autumn copper]

That's a pretty objectively false statement (PPT, PPT2, and TEC are all Guideline games). There is a GitHub ticket that you can also bump.

[fallow marten]

Unfortunately for discord, you can't see closed feature requests.
yeah you can lol
hit CTRL+F right now and you can easily search them as well

anyways i really think people not using mouse a control vector in competitive TE:C gameplay is seriously not because "until now, mouse hasn't been an option"

[faint rivet]

the issue is if you search on the feature request itself it wont show closed posts. having to use the top right search in:#feature requests to search is just confusing/misleading.

[fallow marten]

?

regardless, if this were to be implemented, no way it would work like tetris.com exactly
comparing apples to apples here, TE:C faithfully binds left and right movement as you would expect, whereas tetris.com uses your mouse pointer and even violates well defined movement rules to allow for otherwise impossible placements (because otherwise the pointer wouldn't sync with the piece's position)

[fallow marten]

that's because the topic search in #1020054329782186065 only queries post titles and not contents?

[faint rivet]

You're right 😔

[topaz prairie]

So realistically it would be more accurate to request it's behavior to closely resemble that of TEC rather than Tetris.com, correct? I wasn't aware of the latter part of your statement so apologies on that behalf.

[fallow marten]

yeah that's fine

tetris.com also auto-rotates and that's also a big no-no for the competitive integrity of the game here

[topaz prairie]

Yes I promptly realized that auto-rotation is an unnecessary advantage while briefly playing it, which I wasn't aware of before making the request, since i only tested it briefly.
I'm not fully aware of how posts on these channels work or if the title of this could be edited or potentially merged with a similar topic, but that might be necessary as I feel that it's currently misleading, which is admittedly my fault.

[fallow marten]

Mouse movement/control like TE:C or PPT

figure i should probably include an example:

[topaz prairie]

That's fairly egregious, I wasn't aware of this.

[fallow marten]

it's also a little deep-droppy

[steady gull]

isn't that spin possible tho?

[fallow marten]

sure, but you're doing it with one click as opposed to soft dropping→rotating→rotating again(in the right way, demonstrate your knowledge)→hard dropping

[silver hawk]

that’s possible without 180?

zaptor’s point demonstrated perfectly:

[fallow marten]

more exaggerated example:

[steady gull]

LOL

[autumn copper]

Anyways: Under the pretense that the request bases itself off TEC and PPT's controls, I'm much less against the idea

[faint rivet]

yup rotate left when down. I thought it was an air rotate but nope

[silver hawk]

t-“spin”

[arctic palm]

Long response ≠ chatgpt

[warm gull]

Tetris.com is too OP imo, but what does TEC binds mouse movement to?

[fallow marten]

it pretty much acts as if moving the mouse left and right made the left or right key on a keyboard click and hold

[warm gull]

What about other stuff like hold, soft and hard drop and rotate?

[fallow marten]

hold is middle click, hard dropping and soft dropping is left click (click to hard drop, hold to soft drop)
and right click is clockwise rotation (i think holding it may do counterclockwise but i didn't try that)

[topaz prairie]

In TEC the mouse is fully rebindable too

[fallow marten]

i couldn't figure out how to make anything besides movements with mouse movement though

(since that's the default)

and that makes sense, what does "move up to hold" even mean lol

[torn raven]

yo

Tetrio allows 3 keys per bind right

imagine using moveup and movedown for Hard dropping

[hearty loom]

sorry, how do you bind mouse inputs to moving the piece back and forth? is that a feature right now?

[south bough]

not yet