🌲-talent-tree

[narrow olive]

I am saying according to me

Cuz I don't use bone shield or revenant in mk11 team

But still required in towers as my main team is kc team

Or survivor

[elfin vortex]

I assume every character has shield to break otherwise why would you get boat stance

[smoky sentinel]

Even if they don't have shield with shield break they take more damage

[dapper igloo]

Guys guys

[broken ocean]

?

[dapper igloo]

Boys Boys Boys!

[smoky sentinel]

Back on topic

[elfin vortex]

Would 1 point on a talent be effective at all?

[clever pawn]

Depends, but usually you need to invest

[jaunty kiln]

Lin kuei tutorage then black dragon training is the way to go right?

[clever pawn]

Yeah crits are generally the best option

[hushed widget]

What is this?

[hardy girder]

Soul fragments. You can read more about that in pins of #🏯-towers-relic-hunt

[broken ocean]

they're fragments, you use them whenever relic hunt comes

[hushed widget]

Ok thanks

[cobalt citrus]

Which defense tactic is best oni’s blood, shokan dominance, or centaurian defense?

[clever pawn]

between shokan and centaurian, tho the latter is the most famous one

[cobalt citrus]

Max it?

[clever pawn]

if you want

Its not something you absolutely needs to be maxed it just has a slight chance to help

[cobalt citrus]

Okay

[steel nebula]

How does someone get more talents after completing shokan's tower once

[smoky sentinel]

You can't

The max is 100

[crystal jewel]

got 96 points and it is bug for talent point

is bear stance good or hawk stance better?

[smoky sentinel]

Hawk stance

[crystal jewel]

I always go for hawk stance

is this good?

[smoky sentinel]

Yes

[crystal jewel]

is centurian defense max good for reflect

is this bad?

I always max mongoose stance for recovery boost

to stay in regen health go up

Which one is better ghost armor or O.I.A Tech?

[dapper igloo]

Both but I go for O.I.A Tech

But ghost armor is better when maxed

[crystal jewel]

Okay

[elfin vortex]

I hate how you have to unlock four tiers just to get to wpa

[smoky sentinel]

Better talent= higher tier

There's a reason revenant is not the first one available...

[elfin vortex]

Does unbridled savagery and centurian defense cancel out each other?

[dapper igloo]

No

[clever pawn]

While I somewhat get where you are coming from they are pretty different on what they do

[spice tinsel]

What is the current meta for talents?

[smoky sentinel]

There is no meta

You can check the guide pinned or just use whatever you want

[elfin vortex]

What does Fujins Boon talent actually do?

[smoky sentinel]

Actually does exactly what it says: chance to dispel dots after doing a special attack

[clever pawn]

Yeah luck with that, its barely 15% maxed if I recall correctly

[spice tinsel]

Is it a bug that I have 102 talent points?

[smoky sentinel]

No

[spice tinsel]

Horse, Mongoose, or Boar Stance in Support?

[smoky sentinel]

Mongoose, few points are enough

[spice tinsel]

So don't max it?

[smoky sentinel]

No need to

You can check the guide pinned

[spice tinsel]

What is the base chance of combo enders?

[spice tinsel]

How good is The Art Of Tsunami?

[clever pawn]

Meh

Personally I find all of the talents on that section mediocre

So I wouldnt feel too bad on picking any of them

[spice tinsel]

What is the full Brutality set mentioned in the Brutal Ending description?

[clever pawn]

Special equipment from towers, if you use 2 pieces on the specified character you can perform a brutality

[spice tinsel]

I assume only certain characters have a Brutality?

[clever pawn]

All brutal ending does is allowing you to perform brutality on all 3 opponents, without it you cant

[spice tinsel]

I know Shao Kahn has one with Emperor's Bash if the opponent's health is low enough.

[clever pawn]

Yeah for now, Noob, Subz, Raiden, Jade, Liu Kang, Skarlet, Sonya, Shang(soon), and some others I may have forgotten

Shao is counted as a finisher, not the same thing, and it doesnt work on bosses(normally) while brutalities do

[dapper igloo]

Trash

[dapper igloo]

I prefer death mark

[spice tinsel]

What are the bad talents from each tree?

[dapper igloo]

idk if im allowed to send links

but this is the recommended path

[neon ether]

thats old talent tree

[dapper igloo]

That’s old those are not there anymore

[placid jay]

What's the best skills tree then?

[dapper igloo]

Anything you prefer

[placid jay]

@dapper igloo not really just somethimg thats the meta

@dapper igloo what ever u recommend 👍

[dapper igloo]

There is no meta

[placid jay]

@dapper igloo oh right well ill go with whatever ur using then

[dapper igloo]

You sure?

[placid jay]

@dapper igloo yup

[placid jay]

👍 👍 👍

Appreciate it @dapper igloo

[dapper igloo]

Your welcome

[placid jay]

@dapper igloo btw do you think the anniversary pack is coming soon?

[dapper igloo]

To be honest I’m not sure

But if they do

Then I’m not buying it

[placid jay]

@dapper igloo damn I've saved up 5k souls😂

[dapper igloo]

Well I can to get a diamond but 1 diamond

But we’ll just wait to see

[placid jay]

@dapper igloo whens that?

[dapper igloo]

Idk

[placid jay]

I think someone said april 10th

@dapper igloo how come this is this best skill tree to use?

Im new to the game lol

[dapper igloo]

That’s what I prefer more

[soft siren]

Read the pinned guide, I put some updated talent tree paths by the community

[dapper igloo]

@smoky sentinel ping me when u see this. Want to ask about your talent tree

[dapper igloo]

It’s in the pinned document

I know, i wanted to discuss about his talent tree

What’s there to ask?

Why is he using brutal ending in offense instead of death mark

Because he has brutality equipment, it’s simple

[dapper igloo]

So what about people who dont have brutality equipment? We use death mark?

[spice tinsel]

How do I unlock the next tier in a talent tree?

[dapper igloo]

U see a bar on the bottom screen. Fill it with talent points to open next tier

[dapper igloo]

I don’t use it, it wasn’t there for me when I needed it. It’s inconsistent.

[clever pawn]

It screws me over when I want to go big boy damage mode and kill them before deathmarks apply

[smoky sentinel]

Yes

[dapper igloo]

ok, also since i am following your suggested talent tree. is it good for beginners? i read its for general purposes but also read that MAND's tree set up is more for beginners.

can you elaborate on that?

[smoky sentinel]

It's more based on skill, not on how much you've been playing for

I consider offense the best defense

And i've been using it for every gamemode since 3.0

[dapper igloo]

Ya i did read MAND's set up is more defense based. but then by beginners i guess it must be for those with low fusion bronze/silver?

[smoky sentinel]

It's based on your playstyle

[dapper igloo]

as you know i already have an F2 co cassie, F2 triborg, F1 KC sonya & JC etc so i guess its safe to not call me a pure beginner & roll with your setup

[smoky sentinel]

Just all about skill

If they can't hit you no need for revenant

[dapper igloo]

Alright thanks :)

I do like how wisely the points are spent in the offense class. I dont have enough points to spend it in defense & support yet. but im following your offense tree setup for starters

[ornate flame]

@dapper igloo Draco's talent tree is definitely suboptimal for beginners, you want to focus on defense to beat those bosses and complete hard challenges

Mands tree is a lot better, switch to Draco's towards the endgame

[smoky sentinel]

I mean, i use it with low fusion characters as well

And against bosses more damage is better

[ornate flame]

Without defense one misplay will cost you the game

Can't expect beginners to play with no mistakes all the time

[smoky sentinel]

That's why i said it's all about skill

But it's something that you can learn quickly

And revenant will leave you with 1hp, dead or not dead one hit and you're gone

[dapper igloo]

thanks Spellbreaker. for now i will give Draco's tree a try since im on it & see how far it takes me & how it fares. If things dont work out i will switch to Mands tree :) thanks for enlightening on the subject

[smoky sentinel]

Once you learn how to don't get hit, you don't need defense anymore

[ornate flame]

In 99% of cases beginners won't be as skilled as a vet

Revenant has enabled me to beat elder challenges only 3 weeks into playing, death mark is useless early on

[smoky sentinel]

Deathmark always works

Extra damage, prevents resurrections...

And for elder challenges you need damage, not survivability

Or else you can't kill f7 diamonds in 1 min

[ornate flame]

Resurrections are only relevant in a minimal amount of games

[ornate flame]

True, so I stop after thunderous blows

Nothing else after that is worth taking for beginners

[smoky sentinel]

Extra damage is always good

[dapper igloo]

I mean i do get hit often lol...im bad at blocking

[ornate flame]

Thats the clincher, mands tree will serve you way better then

[smoky sentinel]

Just let him use whatever he wants

Talent tree is about your play style anyway

[ornate flame]

If he's already said he's bad at blocking you'd still recommend your tree?!

[smoky sentinel]

If he doesn't like it he'll change it

[smoky sentinel]

Eventually he'll have to learn, soo...

[ornate flame]

He can learn a lot less painfully with defense tree

But yeah up to him

[smoky sentinel]

I stopped using defense when i still had f3 characters

[ornate flame]

Bet your blocking was good by then

[smoky sentinel]

I don't block

I keep attacking until they're dead

[dapper igloo]

👀

[ornate flame]

....well you can only do that with certain characters

[smoky sentinel]

Of course blocking is an important thing to learn as well

[hardy girder]

Well, Draco uses the fastest character in game, so

[ornate flame]

That's real bad advice for beginners

[hardy girder]

and he has FX Chain for that char

[smoky sentinel]

Well, i use it with everyone

Even on slow characters like shao kahn...

[ornate flame]

Do you block with dvorah?

Beginners don't have mk11 scorpion

[hardy girder]

Most basic golds have slower movement compared to newer characters, that they usually need block, especially if there are no good block breakers

[ornate flame]

They have to use what they pull

Hence why keep attacking until they're dead just isn't the play

[hardy girder]

Death Mark, WPA etc. are useful for like higher level tower battles

[smoky sentinel]

I just said i use it with everyone

Not only scorpion

It's not like i use only one character in the whole game

[ornate flame]

Yes or no

[smoky sentinel]

If a character is slow, blocking is a must to make him good, like mk11 sub0

[smoky sentinel]

Yes

But if you attack them they can't attack you

[hardy girder]

i doubt about that with Kintaro, Ermac characters

[smoky sentinel]

Anyway what's the point of this discussion? He said he was gonna try mine and if he doesn't like it he'll change

[ornate flame]

Defense just makes beginners lives a lot easier

[hardy girder]

Who knows, many new players tend to use Inferno too

[ornate flame]

I'm trying to say defense is better for beginners than offense

And your tree is only optimal for endgame play

Just my opinion

[hardy girder]

Well, mentioning some flaws won't hurt

[smoky sentinel]

If it works in endgame it works everywhere usually

Max it can be overkill

But then it's all about how the player uses it

[dapper igloo]

Im a month old player with F2 sektor triborg, F1 KC sonya, F1 KC johnny, F1 mk11 skarlet, F2 co cassie etc. i only play quick battles in fw & usually end up getting kombatant 1. so will Mands tree help me start winning in survivor & go up the ranks? or do i need to wait for more fusions & equipments before dreaming of crossing the kombatant ranks.

[hardy girder]

I mean, endgame is where you have better things to do, not what is given

[smoky sentinel]

In survivor if you die you don't regen health, so even if you have 1hp you won't go far

Your best option in survivor is not getting hit

[hardy girder]

Revenant Is helpful in survivor though. Just don't tag-in the low health character and let them recover

[dapper igloo]

which is hard, cause i get hit :/ & hardly cross battle 3 in each of the tower

[smoky sentinel]

Also need good characters with a decent amount of health

[hardy girder]

This needs good characters and equipments too

[smoky sentinel]

Yes

And if you don't have them, the tree won't help much

[ornate flame]

100%

[hardy girder]

Defense will be more useful in both situations

[ornate flame]

Revenant helps your character not get killed off

[smoky sentinel]

It's all about the player anyway

[ornate flame]

Even with 1 hp you can tag out and keep them alive

[hardy girder]

Especially with more complicated equipments the game is introducing

[ornate flame]

With Draco's tree if you get touched even once by higher stage survivor teams you're getting wiped

[smoky sentinel]

I use it in survivor as well

[hardy girder]

Not really

But Draco himself has Very good equipments

[ornate flame]

I've just explained a lot Draco....you're an endgame player

[smoky sentinel]

That can be used only once unless you repair them

[ornate flame]

He's a beginner

It's two different things

You have better gear, better characters, better skill, better supports...

Incomparable

[smoky sentinel]

I stopped using defense tree even when i still had f3 golds

[ornate flame]

Yes you said that before, and I've replied to that before

[smoky sentinel]

It's about skill, not when did you start

[ornate flame]

He said he's bad at blocking

[hardy girder]

You have plenty enough though, compared to newer players (like, none of them can have FX Iron Curtain or Infernal Chains)

[weak carbon]

Wait you don't use revenant?

[ornate flame]

And since we've established that blocking is essential early game

He needs help from the defense tree

[smoky sentinel]

Blocking always works

Only few characters have perfect chaining

With others blocking is part of the strategy

And learning who and when is needed

[smoky sentinel]

Stopped using it in srt

[hardy girder]

That doesn't excuse the lack of defense though

[smoky sentinel]

And i started in april

[ornate flame]

Since blocking is part of the strategy and he's BAD at it

[weak carbon]

What do u use instead of it

[ornate flame]

It's not the optimal one for him

[smoky sentinel]

It doesn't have to excuse anything, if you think you can survive even without revenant, use something else

[dapper igloo]

i mostly use hanzo for his chaining. give him 2 equipments that gives 25% unblockable basic dmg each. but yes i suck at blocking, caus i focus on chaining & then hits often take me out. especially in survivor i get taken out in seconds lol

[hardy girder]

His talent tree is featured in pins

[smoky sentinel]

It's all about the player

[ornate flame]

Obviously good blocking is more important when you're running offense not defense

[smoky sentinel]

Does he have to learn anyway or he'll just get fx diamonds without learning how to block?

[ornate flame]

You're acting like he can't learn if he takes defense

Which is simply not true

Learning curve is just smoother with revenant

[smoky sentinel]

Just let him use whatever he wants!

[hardy girder]

That also requires less risk in early stages

[smoky sentinel]

I used revenant too at the start

[hardy girder]

exactly

[ornate flame]

There we go

[smoky sentinel]

And i stopped using it as soon as i noticed that i didn't need it

[sonic blaze]

Draco need to consult something on #💬-general

[smoky sentinel]

Just let him use whatever he wants

[weak carbon]

I dont really use power drain characters tho, so weak point attacks will not be good for me.

[smoky sentinel]

If he doesn't like my tree he can change

It was his choice to copy mine, i didn't force him

[hardy girder]

And he was just commenting on that though

[smoky sentinel]

I have one powerdrainer in every team

[ornate flame]

No one's saying that, we're simply debating the merits of your tree compared to mands for beginners

Nothing more

[smoky sentinel]

Different trees for different playstyles

One is more defensive one is more aggressive

Up to the player

[ornate flame]

And you have be more defensive as a beginner than you do as an endgame player

Don't think that's up for debate

It's simply a fact

[sonic blaze]

True but Draco need to ask you something on general

[hardy girder]

I mean, commenting on Your tree and How it can be risky for newer players

[smoky sentinel]

Just ask

[hardy girder]

not saying they shouldn't use yours

[weak carbon]

I would rather have revenant for AI, so I won't die all the time lol

[smoky sentinel]

You use auto mode when the opponents are so easy that you know you wouldn't lose anyway

Or else you play manually

[weak carbon]

True, but it's faster using AI

[dapper igloo]

Thanks for throwing some light on the topic Spellbreaker & Ubnone. And also, Draco never suggested me to use his tree. I used it cause i read it was an all purpose low cost offense tree. But thanks for clearing it out that its not for beginners (and what beginners exactly means, cause i was confused who exactly can be considered a beginner) so a lot got cleared. Also thanks for the debate, though hoping it didnt cause any animosity or bad blood due to me :)

[smoky sentinel]

I mean, "beginners" can need defense more because they don't have good characters/equipments/skill, but offense trees always work if the player is good enough

[dapper igloo]

I will try both & see how it goes :) thanks for all the answers everyone!!

[dapper igloo]

@ornate flame I tried Mands & yes it works alot better for me. i was able to easily make it through 4 stages of hard tower in survivor, while almost came close to winning on 5th. earlier i used to loose at the 2nd stage itself. Gameplay has slowed down alot in terms of speed due to defensive tree, but its helping me survive longer. So big thanks for helping me out

[ornate flame]

You're very welcome, don't worry about game speed as for beginners like us, actually winning the game is a lot more important than the speed at which you do it

Feel free to ask if you have any more questions

[dapper igloo]

Sure :) and also i would like to point out im winning alot of fights easily on auto mode in fw quick battles. something that was not this easy earlier even with equipments & my best teams :D

[spice tinsel]

I don't know if I made a mistake in my talent tree or not for leveling it up.

I took Art Of The Tsunami over Lightning Blow, am I insane?

[smoky sentinel]

No

Up to you

Both AoT and LB are really good

[spice tinsel]

I just felt 15% was quite low of a chance for the cripple.

And I'm wondering if Art Of The Tsunami stacks with Bo Rai Cho's passive.

[smoky sentinel]

AoT is pretty low too

And it's 15% to cripple on sp1 even if blocked, and can also disable xrays

[spice tinsel]

How many souls is it to reset a full tree?

[smoky sentinel]

The cap is 12 souls/reset

[spice tinsel]

What would you say are the useless skills?

[smoky sentinel]

Gambler

[hybrid jewel]

@placid jay

[placid jay]

@hybrid jewel appreciate it 👍💪

[hybrid jewel]

Thank you

[fossil wharf]

Should I use art of the tsunami or lightning blow for offense. I feel like art of tsunami just doesn’t do a lot of damage to the team?

[smoky sentinel]

Both are good options, up to you

I prefer lightning blow to cripple on sp1

[fossil wharf]

Is the chance to cripple decent?

[smoky sentinel]

15% when maxed

And can cripple xrays

[fossil wharf]

Alright I’ll try it out thank you!

[clever pawn]

not decent but you can spam special 1 to get it eventually

[tame knoll]

Are my talents good

[smoky sentinel]

Use hawk stance instead of boar stance and get anothe pointer in precision, the rest is fine

[hybrid jewel]

Works well against bosses

I will take free damage any day

[broken ocean]

what's the talent called where they reflect damage after multiple hits

[smoky sentinel]

Mhh

There's nothing like that

But centaurian defense can reflect block breaking attacks

[crystal jewel]

hawk stance is better than boar stance

it help for debuff for hawk stance

[broken ocean]

i mean when you attack them, there's a like a pop and you get damaged a bit

[smoky sentinel]

I know

I think it's centaurian defense

[neon ether]

centaurian defense also can save you from sp3, with this update it may be worth a try.

[sullen nacelle]

Hey @dapper igloo

My talent tree for Survivor Mode and FW

[dapper igloo]

Ok nice

I like it

[sullen nacelle]

You're welcome

[broken ocean]

anyone can use my talent tree

[neon ether]

Reaver armor is bugged, make use of it, 4% is enough for lethal blow immunity.

[clever pawn]

Am not copying a tree that has ghost armor

[dapper igloo]

You do know you can copy it but just modify it your way right?

[echo zenith]

What’s better, rapid response or bd training? I’m putting some saved points in and want to not waste em

[smoky sentinel]

bd training

[rotund adder]

Boar Stance only applies shield break for 3 seconds instead of staying there way longer, this part of 3.2 update?

[graceful hedge]

Can someone help me make a good talent tree

[smoky sentinel]

You can check the pinned guide and find the one that most suits you

[graceful hedge]

Alright thanks Draco

[dapper igloo]

Talent depends on your collection, for example.

I use mk11 jade a lot, but when hawk stance talent triggers, she can not use her passive and she can not heal back after a dot based attack.
I guess Bear stance is more efectiv with Jade

Same with revenant and mk11 sub0. He gives 100% "revenant" to mk11 team members

[dapper igloo]

I disagree

[smoky sentinel]

He's right

[dapper igloo]

It’s not the collection it’s your play style you can use someone a lot but talent tree is for any character imo at least

[smoky sentinel]

Your tree is based on your main characters, even if you can make it a general tree for everyone

[dapper igloo]

Well yes because 9/10 when a newer player have a good diamond they use it a lot not saying that he’s a newer player cause Idk but I know this cause I use to do the same thing

But it’s like once I have all the characters maxed or not I will use them too so I can even the out

[cobalt citrus]

@rancid flare

[rancid flare]

Looking good

[cobalt citrus]

Thanks

Which one to remove?

[rancid flare]

You have good main talents:

Black dragon training
Lin kuei tutorage
Revenant
Shinnok’s teachings
And death mark technique

Those are all good

[cobalt citrus]

Yes

[rancid flare]

You don’t have to remove any, your tree is looking good

But instead of reaver’s armor I’d put intimidating presence. But right now reaver’s armor is broken so you should be almost immune to lethal blows

Reaver’s armor is bugged, so there you go. Free immunity to lethal blows until it gets fixed lol

[cobalt citrus]

Yea, the lethals sometimes put a heavy toll on my characters

[rancid flare]

Alright, then reaver’s armor is just fine for you

[cobalt citrus]

So I don’t need teamwork?

[smoky sentinel]

To use support you'd have to get rid of either defense or attack

[rancid flare]

Yeah

[cobalt citrus]

Yea that’s why I’m asking for help

[rancid flare]

I mean, all your talents are pretty vital. So I don’t know which one to remove

Maybe shirai ryu teachings

You would lose lightning blow and death mark technique, so that’s the problem with that

[smoky sentinel]

You could just copy my tree, check the pinned guide and it's the last one featured

[cobalt citrus]

Alr

[smoky sentinel]

Replace brutal ending with deathmark of course

[rancid flare]

Oh that’s pretty cool. You guys have MAND, crisplay TV and KC mobile gaming’s talent trees

[cobalt citrus]

Then again there’s no revenant

But the rest seems pretty good

[rancid flare]

Yeah

[cobalt citrus]

Alr, done

Poor revenant lol

[rancid flare]

Yeah lol. You can do it without revenant though

[rotund adder]

When would it be a good time to switch from support and defense to offense and support?

[clever pawn]

its just another playstyle, if you feel you can manage without defense you can try, just remember its gonna make you play more carefully

[lilac gull]

And one shot may be the last shot

[sonic blaze]

Which is better for my mk 11 team with sub0 scorp and jade hawk stance or bear stance

[smoky sentinel]

Hawk stance

[sonic blaze]

Thanks

[uneven palm]

Bear Stance is definitely better. They should not get that 20% resistance to all debuffs because they actually need to have DOTs to heal.

[clever pawn]

Sounds pretty stupid to build your tree around 1 team

[uneven palm]

Maybe, it's their main team. Plus, Bear Stance works well for all characters anyway.

Furthermore, that's how the talent tree works anyway. You reset your talents for it to be fit for the team that you are using for a certain battle.

[smoky sentinel]

Hawk stance gives resistance to all debuffs, not only dots

And if maxed jade's brutality epic gives 50% debuff resistance it means that having debuff resistance on her is not a bad thing

And anyway no, resetting your tree everytime you change team is kinda a waste of souls, better to find something that works with everyone

[uneven palm]

Yeah, Bear Stance works best for everyone, even for MK11 Jade. I wouldn't suggest Hawk Stance because some characters don't benefit from it just like MK11 Jade when you don't have her brutality gear maxed. I mean, I wouldn't want to max an epic tower gear just for that talent to work well for her.

[smoky sentinel]

Hawk stance is good on everyone

Even jade

You'd lose more than the health that bear stance has to offer if you get stunned or frozen

[uneven palm]

Yeah, but there are characters like Dark Raiden, Klassic Liu Kang and others' portion of their passive won't work if they resist the debuff.

[smoky sentinel]

Who cares honestly

[uneven palm]

I mean, those characters are all good and many people use them so they would care.

[smoky sentinel]

Some debuffs would make you lose the match so better to sacrifice some dot healing to resist them

[uneven palm]

Yeah, some debuffs can, but DOT debuffs will help them if they heal from that.

[smoky sentinel]

You can live without and win the match anyway

And not every enemy you face has dots

[uneven palm]

Exactly, that's why Bear Stance is better because there are some matches when you don't face DOTs at all.

[smoky sentinel]

Hawk stance gives resistance to all debuffs

Powerdrain, stun, frostbite... everything

[uneven palm]

Yeah, so when you face opponents with DOTs, you might resist them and the passive won't work.

[smoky sentinel]

The point is that dot healing is not that important and only few characters have it

[uneven palm]

Yeah, some characters do have it, unlike Bear Stance who can benefit everyone without affecting the character in a negative way.

As you said, it's better to be general when setting your talent tree.

[dapper igloo]

Hawk stance is general

[neon ether]

Hawk stance works for all, debuff dont revolve on dots only, curse, stun, freeze, frostbite, slow, blind,fear, powerdrain, shield break, death mark, weaken, snare, cripple are all included. Dot is only poison, fire and bleed.

Have debuff immmunity means you are almost god like, except losing health.

[earnest jackal]

Its not immunity, its a chance to resist.

[dapper igloo]

This man about to write a whole essay on why Bear Stance is better

But just know best stance isn’t that good theirs equipment for max health boost anyways

[uneven palm]

These are the reasons why I think Bear Stance is better than Hawk Stance:

1: Bear Stance does not rely on chance. It is ensured that the health of all characters will be boosted by 25%, unlike Hawk Stance which depends on 20% chance resistance to all debuffs compared to 80% chance that the debuff will still work. Yeah, you may say you can equip gears with additional chance to resist all debuffs, but there's only a few. Only the ones I can remember are Earth Elemental Facemask, Body Armor and Cyber Armor, two of which only apply to a certain character type.

2: Bear Stance benefits all characters, unlike Hawk Stance which could possibly cause a part of a character's passive to be useless. Speaking of generality, Bear Stance is totally better.

3: Bear Stance can further boost health of a character. Yes, there are so many max health booster gears, and with the help of Bear Stance, it can even boost it further, unlike Hawk Stance which can only be boosted by some equipments.

[earnest jackal]

The problem with hawk stance is that it depends on chance, which means it couldnt work for the whole match or it could, why would i want to base on chance

[uneven palm]

Having Hawk Stance doesn't mean you are immune to debuffs. As Draco said, for it to even work well for Jade, you would need to max an epic tower gear.

[earnest jackal]

And why are you choosing hawk stance, debuffs are a part of your passive dark raiden 😂😂😂😂

[uneven palm]

Flat 20% chance in ratio with 80% doesn't seem it can do much nor can it benefit all characters when speaking of generality.

Plus, aside from characters, Hawk Stance also affects some equipments.

[smoky sentinel]

That's not what i said

Inside that her brutalitybepic has debuff resistance

It means that it's a good thing on her as well

[uneven palm]

Yeah, but it doesn't change the fact that Bear Stance is better generally.

[smoky sentinel]

Not really

[uneven palm]

Plus, it's an epic tower gear anyway, it’s very hard to max for free.

[smoky sentinel]

That's not the point

[uneven palm]

What is?

[earnest jackal]

D

[uneven palm]

Also, remember that we are answering this guy's question. At this state, Bear Stance is much more better for these MK11 characters considering Jade's passive also applies to other MK11 characters.

[smoky sentinel]

If they stun you you would lose more than the health that bear stance has to offer, that's why Having debuff resistance is never a bad thing

The more the better

[uneven palm]

Stun? That's literally very exclusive. Not all characters have stun, that's also a single piece of debuff.

[earnest jackal]

Which isnt certain if hawk stance will resist it or not

[uneven palm]

Still, even if you put all equipments on Jade, it will not make her immune to debuffs since there's still a chance that the debuff will work.

Yeah.

[neon ether]

Some character can have debuff immunity with gears and talent.

[uneven palm]

Yeah, with gears, there are literally only some gears that give debuff resistance chance, and some of them are even tower equipments and only work for a certain character.

[earnest jackal]

So? We are talking about mk11 jade here. Will a single debuff kill you? I don’t think thats the case here.

[uneven palm]

Yes, considering MK11 Sub-Zero is also in that team.

[neon ether]

For me having hawk stance outweigh the extra health offered by bear stance, there are matches where enemy team can apply cripple, frostbite, fire, stun, powerdrain and snare in one match, all that extra health soon gets depleted.

[uneven palm]

Yeah, but Hawk Stance relies on chance.

You're only 20% sure it will be resisted, unless you put equipments that further boost the resistance chance.

[dapper igloo]

And not all characters have dots

[uneven palm]

Exactly, which is why Bear Stance is better because Hawk Stance is situational.

[earnest jackal]

Oop

s

is it a checkmate i see

[dapper igloo]

Bruh 9/10 you go against people with debuff so hawk stance actually outweigh bear stance

[earnest jackal]

With only 20 percent chance? Id rather have the health to withstand them

And resisting fear is bad lmao

[dapper igloo]

Btw not to mention

In order to for your dot heal to work you have to get smacked

That extra health does nothing bruh

And if you have use red dragon training you can resist it with hawk stance for 40% stun and power drain resistance

[earnest jackal]

Why waste your talent for that? Lmaoo

You couldve gotten other more useful talents

[earnest jackal]

Yes, and if jade got smacked and she resisted the debuff, shell die bc she wont regenerate lmaoo

[dapper igloo]

Cause that’s my preference

[uneven palm]

Yes, remember, we are talking about GENERALITY, not PREFERENCE.

[earnest jackal]

your preference only 😭

[dapper igloo]

Preference is generally

[uneven palm]

What presence?

[earnest jackal]

What is presence :o

as generally

[uneven palm]

20% chance of debuff resistance presence?

[dapper igloo]

I use talents that benefit any and everyone

[earnest jackal]

And hawk stance isnt even general to begin with since klk, dark raiden, mk11 benefit from the debuff

[smoky sentinel]

Debuff resistance stacks

[dapper igloo]

It is general

[smoky sentinel]

That's why bd tremor wih his mask has 100% debuff resistance in gold form

[earnest jackal]

bear stance IS general bc it can be applied to anything

[smoky sentinel]

The more, the better

[uneven palm]

Yes, but we are not talking about equipments, we are talking about solely the two talents themselves.

[earnest jackal]

bd tremor only, not generally.

[smoky sentinel]

Hawk stance is a better choice that bear stance

Only you play tower, you'll get it too

[earnest jackal]

I dont think ill get it since chances are chances only after all

[uneven palm]

Yeah, only towers, but Bear Stance works outside towers too.

Plus, remember, it's only a chance after all.

[smoky sentinel]

Hawk stance works outside towers too

[earnest jackal]

It wont work always if its chance based 😭

[uneven palm]

Yeah, there's only a chance it will work.

[smoky sentinel]

And bear stance scales with base health, so 20% health won't change much

[uneven palm]

Unlike Bear Stance which is sure to work.

[smoky sentinel]

When only supports give 33%

[uneven palm]

I think I've proven my point here, thank you!

[smoky sentinel]

We're telling you that 20% debuff resistance is better than 20% extra health

[earnest jackal]

It will change much if you can withstand a single special attack given to jade and she doesnt resist the debuff so she’ll heal

[uneven palm]

It's 25%.

LOL.

[smoky sentinel]

Then you may want to use extra health, but resisting debuffs is still better

[uneven palm]

Resistono?

I still disagree.

[smoky sentinel]

Experience is the best teacher

[uneven palm]

Indeed, I actually had Hawk Stance before.

Now, I changed it to Bear Stance.

I can see how it was so useless and even affects some characters in a bad way.

Flat 20%.

Sorry if anyone was offended during the discussion and I hope that my point was proven.

[earnest jackal]

Yep mate, been playing since 2017

[uneven palm]

Bye.

[neon ether]

🤦 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♀️

[uneven palm]

Woah, nice.

I started playing around that time too, I changed accounts but that's when I've started.

[smoky sentinel]

Played in kold war tower?

[uneven palm]

Yes, in my previous accounts, at least.

[smoky sentinel]

You'd have had a lot of fun with the 25% extra health against granted frozen and frostbite on tag in

[uneven palm]

That doesn't drain your health though overtime though.

[smoky sentinel]

But when the frozen lasts for 4 hits...

All your health is gone

[uneven palm]

But with the help of the health booster, the effect will be lessened.

[smoky sentinel]

25% extra health won't change much, debuff resistance will, even if it's only a chance

[uneven palm]

Also, there are tower equipments for that.

[earnest jackal]

And ever heard about blocking

[smoky sentinel]

Blocking doesn't stop debuffs

[earnest jackal]

But it does stop freeze, which is the debuff that you were talking about

[smoky sentinel]

You'd have had a lot of fun against arctic wind and weather warfare without debuff resistance

[smoky sentinel]

Can't stop it because it's on tag in

[uneven palm]

Were you even in the time when Thunder God Raiden's first challenge was released?

[smoky sentinel]

Does it matter?

[uneven palm]

I've been there before in my oldest account, that's why I have more experience.

Experience is the best teacher.

[smoky sentinel]

I've completed a tower with a f1 team, thanks

[uneven palm]

Yeah, F1 because it's the best character.

[earnest jackal]

Mhm, same. I used mk11 jade with bear stance

[hardy girder]

.........Talent Trees introduced in 2017...... doesn't matter if someone started playing in 2015

[uneven palm]

Even at F0 he can beat it, no need to brag that.

[sacred turtle]

Are we really having a argument on a stance 😬

[hardy girder]

And if you're talking about Chances, remember you use equipments with Chances everytime

[uneven palm]

I don't.

I don't use it everytime.

[earnest jackal]

We are talking about talents here, with is another thing

[hardy girder]

Then I think it's safe to assume you don't use block breakers

[earnest jackal]

which*

[uneven palm]

I use them, but not everytime.

[uneven palm]

“everytime”

[hardy girder]

I'm talking about Chance like you said

[smoky sentinel]

You can prefer having extra health, doesn't mean that it's a better option than having debuff resistance since resisting a debuff can make a difference between losing or winning a match

[hardy girder]

Extra health can do nothing if you're on DOT or stunned

[earnest jackal]

Remember ubnone, somone asked the better stance: bear stance or hawk stance for mk11 jade

someone*

[smoky sentinel]

Hawk stance is still better

I use it too with jade

And dot healing doesn't matter if you get stunned

[hardy girder]

I don't think your talent tree should be based on only one character

[smoky sentinel]

Or frozen, or crippled, or anything

[earnest jackal]

No, we are answering that question, lol

We said bear stance, but draco said hawk stance

[uneven palm]

Yeah.

[sacred turtle]

Hawk stance in survivor mode 😌

[smoky sentinel]

Because it's true

[hardy girder]

Even if Jade can benefit from DOTs, there are characters who can deal more damage on opponents who are affected by DOTs

Hawk Stance is much better

[uneven palm]

No.

[smoky sentinel]

Muramasa blades deals 125% damage on combo enders on enemies affected by fire

[uneven palm]

See?

[smoky sentinel]

There are talents for extra damage against enemies affected by dots

[earnest jackal]

as if we all have that

[uneven palm]

That's the opponent, not you.

[smoky sentinel]

As if your opponent can't have that

[earnest jackal]

and i wouldnt use that, there are better talents

[smoky sentinel]

You have to counter your opponent to win

[hardy girder]

Wretch D'Vorah, Shaolin Bow, Razor Sai, Bojutsu Staff,... and many more normal equipments have "xx% more damage against evemies affected by Bleed, Poson, Fire etc."

[earnest jackal]

Yes, but its their talent lmao

[smoky sentinel]

And you have to counter them!

The other option is losing

[earnest jackal]

Mhm! But are you sure that they have bear stance or hawk stance?

[hardy girder]

Also, Jade benefits from only 3 debuffs

[earnest jackal]

And so? 3 debuffs that are common

[uneven palm]

Yeah.

[smoky sentinel]

A crippled klk is a dead klk even if he heals from fire

[uneven palm]

How so?

[hardy girder]

Power Drain, Stun, Snare................

[earnest jackal]

Not exactly, you can either tag out or block the special attack. If he has bear stance, he has more time to remove the debuff.

[smoky sentinel]

Because his main source of damage are his special attacks

[uneven palm]

Not really.

[smoky sentinel]

Yes

[sacred turtle]

Hawk stance is like so OP I don’t know how you don’t understand lmao

[uneven palm]

His basic attacks are another option.

[earnest jackal]

Yes, i only said that those 3 dots are very common lmao

[ember schooner]

😞anyone know how to fix bugs because I have problem with talent point I just stuck at 52 points no more

[earnest jackal]

Its not op if its only 20 percent chance XD

[uneven palm]

Have you finished Shao Kahn Tower?

[sacred turtle]

It also saves u from annoying debuffs like stun and power drain

[hardy girder]

and I just said another common debuffs that jade in vulnerable to

[ember schooner]

7 times

[smoky sentinel]

This game is all about chances, and 25% extra health is not so important

[uneven palm]

Only 20% chance.

[hardy girder]

I guess you don't open diamonds packs then

[uneven palm]

It might not be so important, but it is better than 1:4 chance to resist debuffs.

[hardy girder]

if 20% is not enough for you

[earnest jackal]

Yes, and what if she didnt resist the debuff? She has no more health to withstand the incoming attacks, not unless if you have bear stance.

[smoky sentinel]

Debuff resistance IS better

And it can stack

[uneven palm]

Stop talking about stacking!

[smoky sentinel]

I guess you don't play survivor

[uneven palm]

We are talking about talents!

We aren't talking about EQUIPMENTS!

[smoky sentinel]

It can stack with equipments

[uneven palm]

No one cares.

[smoky sentinel]

They work together

[uneven palm]

Okay?

[smoky sentinel]

Wtf is even this discussion?

[uneven palm]

Doesn’t Bear Stance do the same?

[earnest jackal]

Mhm, and many people dont have debuff resistance equipments. Only tremor’s equipment has it, and it can only be applied to 1 character.

[uneven palm]

It can stack and can work together.

[hardy girder]

Yes, 25% health, not so much

[earnest jackal]

Not so much but enough to tag out

[smoky sentinel]

Use whatever you want, but debuff resistance is still better, and nothing can change that

[uneven palm]

20% chance, so not so much.

[ember schooner]

🤔does it even normal to finish shao khan tower 7 time and no more then 52 talent points

[uneven palm]

No.

[hardy girder]

Which is why your argument is just too unnecessary

[earnest jackal]

And i wont believe on a mod who thinks mk11 noob saibot is the 3rd best charactter,

character*

[uneven palm]

So you agree with me?

Because I just said 20% chance is not so much.

[hardy girder]

No, I won't.

[ember schooner]

😞how to fix that thing I hope they fix it soon

[uneven palm]

Chance is different from boost.

[hardy girder]

That boost can be depleted easily regardless of situation

[uneven palm]

I think I won here, sorry if anyone felt offended or disrespected.

[earnest jackal]

And the chance isnt guaranteed, but the boost is.

Just like assassin jade and her evades

[sacred turtle]

Cos LK instantly gets rid of that 25% health so like wtf is the point

[graceful hedge]

“Fish #💬-general”

[deep kernel]

no

[hardy girder]

And since support now give more than double health boost than before, Bear Stance is not necessary

[earnest jackal]

yes, and what if you didnt resist his stun because hawk stance is chance based? You’re more than dead.

[deep kernel]

Did they revamp the talents?

[sacred turtle]

Think of it this way hawk stance helps you the whole round while bear maybe lasts like 5 seconds at most ☠️

[uneven palm]

No, it doesn't.

[earnest jackal]

How does it help you if its only chance lmao

[hardy girder]

You can pretty much say same about Revenant, Bone Shield, yet these are used by majority of players

[sacred turtle]

20% happens a lot not like it’s not gonna happen a round lmao

[uneven palm]

Still, it's luck-based.

[earnest jackal]

so? its all chance boo

[hardy girder]

That's why your argument is too weak

[uneven palm]

What?

How?

Yours is weak.

[deep kernel]

I get what you mean by guaranteed vs. chance, especially with something low like 20%.

[uneven palm]

As weak as feather.

[earnest jackal]

At the end of the day, id choose guaranteed anyday rather than chance.

[uneven palm]

Yes, thank you.

[deep kernel]

I can't tell if you guys are having friendly banter and screwing around or actually upset

[earnest jackal]

Oh, im having fun, idk about them 😭

[uneven palm]

I'm quite upset, because many people consider these Moderators "veterans," "experienced," and "helpful" but are providing information from their opinion, not objectively and based on generality.

Just like how the Elder God said Noob Saibot was the 3rd best character.

It's obviously his own preference.

It's not based on generality and other people's opinions too.

[deep kernel]

It reminds me of when people debate Mohammed Ali and Bruce Lee lol

[hardy girder]

Yes, a chance, that's the point. Another chance based talent, but people usually depend on.

[hardy girder]

Because Hawk Stance is generally better than Bear Stance

[uneven palm]

Not generally.

[earnest jackal]

mhm, and what if the chance failed you? guarantee wont ever fail you, because it’s 100 percent

[uneven palm]

Selectively, situationally, and based on own preference.

[hardy girder]

@uneven palm Funny how siphorous said you guys were talking about "mk11 jade", but you said "generally"

[deep kernel]

I feel like when it works, it's better, but it isn't something I would rely on ever, like Deathmark and Revenant, great when they happen, but not worth it to get on it

[uneven palm]

Yeah, because Bear Stance is better generally and selectively.

[uneven palm]

Yeah, chance-dependent.

[hardy girder]

You know that 25% health boost is guaranteed to be reduced too

[uneven palm]

Let's stop this discussion, this is pointless, just like these Moderators.

[earnest jackal]

But what will 20 percent do? boo

[hardy girder]

I'm sure I already said it is pointless before already

[uneven palm]

It's not guaranteed, will everyone die in each match?

Will everyone's health be reduced in each match?

No.

[earnest jackal]

And i wont believe in a moderator who judged a person because theyre noot speaking english well.

[uneven palm]

How surprising...

Disrespectful, incompetent, pointless Moderators.

I hope you guys improve.

I would like to see the improvement within the next few days, okay?

[sacred turtle]

What are you a Karen? ☠️

[uneven palm]

Maybe, YOU are.

[hardy girder]

In my defense, person who misunderstood the context and continued to spread faulty information even after the clarification should be called out on their English

[hardy girder]

Sure

[strange rune]

wait so y is everyone ganging up on the mod lmao

[hardy girder]

Let's just move on. It is ended.

[dapper igloo]

I’ve play since it was released and delete a year later cause it became boring came back in 2018 with a new account but I’ve been more experienced

[dapper igloo]

I’ve been saying that for a while in this chat

[dapper igloo]

If you check their equipment before battle and remember if that equipment have resistance to anything so if they resist then you will know If they use hawk stance

[dapper igloo]

Your dead regardless but if u have red dragon trading and hawk stance more than likely you won’t be stunned

[dapper igloo]

No one said that “these” mods was vets but most of them are

[dapper igloo]

He is a good character tho so idk what to tell you plus that’s his list not yours

[smoky sentinel]

Thanks Ryan, we can move on now

[ornate flame]

Just mindblown how such a long and pointless convo can be had about a topic where it's not even close, hawk stance is leagues better than bear stance unless you're a beginner

But since we've moved on I won't continue

[stuck geyser]

I think we should all take revenant and shinnoks teaching off of our characters because they obviously don't work enough when you're using it but when the AI uses it against you it becomes an actual issue

[dapper igloo]

Mines apply a lot for both revenant and bone shield

[stuck geyser]

Damn. Mine doesn't work then lol

[dapper igloo]

Sometimes it depends on how many punches the opponent hits you for it to trigger

Like if they throw 1 punch then it won’t apply unless they do a special

[stuck geyser]

I see, maybe I just finish them off too quick so it triggers alot

[obsidian minnow]

I think health boosting in general is overrated, there's way better sources of defense than just stacking health boosts

Resistance and reduction to some the game's most common debuffs and attacks make you much more standy and versatile in the long run

Hence why I like Shadow Sash

[merry sphinx]

Give us the ability to have multiple Talent Tree presets like the team presets

[rancid flare]

Yeah that’s also a feature that would be really useful. If that comes it’ll be the best quality of life update ever since the team presets

[rancid flare]

Here you go

[dapper igloo]

Oo

Thanks a lot bud!

[rancid flare]

No problem!

[cobalt citrus]

U might need death mark

For battles with a hell of a lot of resurrection

[sharp plover]

Incoming tower, might have rebuild my tree for higher chance of combo enders.
Still haven't found the perfect tree for my game play style

[dapper igloo]

Well what do you like to use?

Want me to show my tree?

[sharp plover]

Mindless, senseless screen tapping, no blocking. 🤣
Tap and pray, I can get through the round

[dapper igloo]

So offense?

Well this is my offense

@sharp plover

[sharp plover]

Looks like mine

[dapper igloo]

That’s it?

[ornate flame]

Sounds like you need revenant in your life if you don't block

[dapper igloo]

Sometimes I feel the same

[sharp plover]

Yep, Revenant and Bone shield.

[dapper igloo]

Quick question so I want teamwork but what should I sacrifice bone shield or death mark?

[ornate flame]

I've found bone shield to be unnecessary most of the time

[smoky sentinel]

Get rid of boneshield

Deathmark is more useful, alsp because in towers you want to deal as much damage as possible

[crystal jewel]

should I get rid of bone shield?

[ornate flame]

Bruh

[crystal jewel]

it deals dmg

should I go for precision or lightning blow to get rid of bone shield?

[smoky sentinel]

Precision AND lightning blow are good

[crystal jewel]

Okay

but I like mangoose max 5

is this good set up Draco?

[smoky sentinel]

Yeah

[crystal jewel]

mongoose stance is good for max right?

hawk stance is way better than bear stance

[smoky sentinel]

No real meed to max it but recovery helps

[crystal jewel]

but hawk stance resistance all debuffs

[smoky sentinel]

Yes

[crystal jewel]

yeah okay

I didnt max to max all 5 mongoose stance 4 or 5?

[worthy tinsel]

Which one should i select?

[smoky sentinel]

Revenant

And maxed would be better

[clever pawn]

Never thought I would see this section being consulted

[smoky sentinel]

Having it with few points is not different than not having it at all

[worthy tinsel]

When i finish the tower can i still get talent tree coins?

[smoky sentinel]

No

Only from the first run

Check the guide pinned

[faint ocean]

starting to get into the talent tree on fight 20 what support should I max?

got 5 tokens so

[supple fjord]

What should I focus on? I can reset and redo it. I tried searching on google but nothing actually helpful came up. On what should I focus?

[smoky sentinel]

Check the guide pinned

[tall phoenix]

Anyone have a good offense talent tree?

Or is shinnoks teaching and revenant the meta rn?

[dapper igloo]

There never has been a meta just a style of your choice

[clever pawn]

Well there are effective trees and meme/personal use ones but right now due to some bugs revenant and bone shield seem to work better

[worthy tinsel]

i finally fulled my talent tree

[willow wren]

Revenant 100% and make sure to max it out, rest dosent really matter but Shinnok' Teachings and Revenant Should be maxed

Both are VERY helpful is harder battles

Life savers

[worthy tinsel]

i maxed the all already

[trail robin]

What they made it 100% this is a game change!!

[hardy girder]

Always been like that since 3.0

[trail robin]

I didnt know that it changed i remember that it was 40%

[hardy girder]

40% is the chance of special combo ender

[dapper igloo]

No so if you max it, there’s a 100% chance of doing a brutality MID MATCH the brutality equipment chance of doing a brutality in general is still 40% or (Special Combo Ender)

[spice tinsel]

Is Spec Ops Tactics or Teamwork more useful?

[smoky sentinel]

I use teamwork

[dapper igloo]

Teamwork

[wispy wedge]

Guess for bosses is good to use weak point attacks and for ressurection battles death mark talent and the other battles should be defence tree.

[smoky sentinel]

In towers you want to deal as much damage as possible in the lowest amount of time

[wispy wedge]

This for bosses or whole tower?

Cuz i never worked with offensive tree and support. Only defence.

[smoky sentinel]

Well, changing your tree every 20 battles is not suggested

[wispy wedge]

Is there a specific tree for the tower? Defence tree with revenant and bone shield or offense tree?

[smoky sentinel]

Offense is better

You can check mine, it's featured in the guide pinned

Been the same since 3.0

[wispy wedge]

Okay, thanks.

[past temple]

Didnt they change things up after 3.1 ?

[smoky sentinel]

The talent tree was reworked in 3.0

[past temple]

Alright, thanks

[slate frigate]

Why did they have to change bone shield for
I like it the way it was before patch 3.2.1

[dapper igloo]

It might be bug we don’t know no one confirmed it as a new ability yet

[neon ether]

maybe one of those unannounced changes. more like bone cover now 🤣

[misty moss]

is it still best to go for bone shield and that stuff first even after the nerf?

[clever pawn]

Would prolly just use something else

[dapper igloo]

It’s not nerfed it’s bugged

[smoky sentinel]

We don't know that

[dapper igloo]

Cause if it was nerf they probably would’ve done the same for revenant

[smoky sentinel]

Not necessarily

In the meanwhile, live with it

[dapper igloo]

Well like you just said we don’t know that

[smoky sentinel]

Kano was not in the patchnotes but they confirmed it's a feature

So adapt to the new boneshield, if it comes back as it was before fine, or else, nothing can be done about it

And i prefer the new one anyway, less annoying

[dapper igloo]

Agreed

Keeping em cornered till it runs out

[clever pawn]

Just stop using bone shield and invest points in actually good talents

[dapper igloo]

IMO it is a good talent

[clever pawn]

The talent is dead till any further notice from NRS

It´s pointless now

Officially dead

[dapper igloo]

You can’t tell people to stop using something even if it’s bugged or not

[dapper igloo]

Nope

Btw that’s your opinion anyways so no

[clever pawn]

If you want to use a bad talent you do you, the talent in itself sucks now

[dapper igloo]

And plus that’s people’s choice of preference if they still use it that’s the point of a talent tree

[ornate flame]

Agreed, didn't use it before and the change just ensures I'll never use it

[clever pawn]

You really have no reading comprehension have you

[dapper igloo]

It probably sucks for you cause you’ve probably gotten cornered till it ran out

[clever pawn]

Am done wasting time with this convo

[smoky sentinel]

Better like that probably, not worth it

[dapper igloo]

This whole convo was pointless

[smoky sentinel]

I haven't used defense in months, definitely not gonna think about it now

[dapper igloo]

Till someone had to say stop using it

[smoky sentinel]

Only revenant could be half decent

[dapper igloo]

If I like I will still use it

[smoky sentinel]

We can end that now and here

[ornate flame]

I mean its an opinion...you're free to disagree

[dapper igloo]

I did already

[smoky sentinel]

Seems clear to me^

It's just like many other talents (gambler is an example)

[dapper igloo]

I kno I was literally saying that the whole time but kept talking

[smoky sentinel]

The talent half sucks, but no one is stopping you from using it

[dapper igloo]

Exactly

[misty moss]

should I reset my talent tree to get revenant and bone shield or should I go with death mark?

[left saffron]

I don't know what happened with Bone Shield and Revenant, but suit your needs. What's the Death Mark chance at maxed out?

[smoky sentinel]

25%

[left saffron]

It's situational, but it can come to your benefit, so until we actually figure out how good Bone Shield and Revenant are now, just stick with Death Mark or Brutal Ending

[clever pawn]

There is nothing to figure out, revenant can be bypassed via executions/deathmarks/brutalities and bone shield doesnt provide anything of high value anymore

[visual violet]

isnt talent point was 102?

[clever pawn]

Well old players have a 2 or 4 more points cause NRS got too lazy to fix the mess and said it was a "gift"

[smoky sentinel]

Earlier 2 extra points were given in the first battle, not anymore

[red canyon]

I can't imagine, if this talent point maximize (mastered) all 3 talent trees..

[visual violet]

well i had 102 point and when i respect i lost 2

[smoky sentinel]

You don't lose points when you resets

[clever pawn]

Having reseted so many times already I can confirm you dont lose any like ever

[dapper igloo]

Lion stance or mantis stance?

Which one u guys prefer for offense?

[smoky sentinel]

Lion

[dapper igloo]

How about mantis that does more dmg when blocked? Wouldn't that help against bosses?

[hardy girder]

Mantis imo

Lion is just for basic attacks, but for mantis, any blocked damage

[dapper igloo]

How far would u fill up the meter?

[hardy girder]

just one, since it is not really useful like other higher tier talents. Just better than other 2 in same tier

I mean, better choice than lion and tiger stance

but not worth using more than one talent point on

[dapper igloo]

Ok thanks 😊

[spice tinsel]

With Shirai Ryu Teachings, is the increased power gain off of Critical Hits noticeable enough to make a justifiable enough impact on power generation?

[spice tinsel]

Or is it not that noticeable?

[rancid flare]

I mean I’ve used shirai ryu teachings before, and yeah, it’s not that noticeable. I guess an extra 10% power generation is cool if you have a 100% critical hit chance team (ex. Bo Rai Cho, Silver Kung Jin, Hat Trick Kung Lao)

[spice tinsel]

I am wondering if I need to change my talents for the towers.

[rancid flare]

But keep in mind that critical hit chance can be completely nullified with equipments such as bloody shokan armor. So there’s not point in investing in shirai ryu teachings

[spice tinsel]

Right now I'm using Draco's talent build from the guide.

[rancid flare]

What team are you using, Kombat cup team? I have a tree for that

[spice tinsel]

I often don't use the same team though.

I tend to swap them out when I run out of energy on one team.

[rancid flare]

Oh alright. Then what’s the main team you use

[spice tinsel]

Currently in the Fatal Tower for bosses, my most success has been with Covert Ops Cassie Cage, Shirai Ryu Takeda, and High Tech Jacqui Briggs.

[rancid flare]

Nice, that’s the same team I used for LKT. So basically, I just focus on special 2 damage increase

Cause I’m sure you spam covert ops cassie special 2 and stuff

And that, does a ton of damage

So try getting thunderous blows in the offense tree. 26% special attack 2 damage boost

[spice tinsel]

Can you block the fireball things that randomly cripple the team?

[rancid flare]

I don’t think you can block them, even if you try to block, it’ll still cripple you. The only counter is debuff resistance

So if you have tremor’s face mask, and hawk stance from the talent tree, that’s 50% resistance to all debuffs (including cripple)

[spice tinsel]

The teams I've been using:
Bo Rai Cho, Hat Trick Kung Lao, Cyrax.
Unstoppable Jason, Vampiress Mileena, Vengeful Shinnok.
Smoke, Cyrax, Sub Zero Triborg.
Hanzo Hasashi Scorpion, Grandmaster Sub Zero, Shaolin Fist Kung Lao.
Mournful Kitana, Piercing Mileena, Scourge Baraka.
Mournful Kitana, Piercing Mileena, Sun God Kotal Kahn.
Elder God Kenshi, Bone Shaper Shinnok, Dark Raiden.
Nightmare Jason, Nightmare Freddy Krueger, Nightmare Pretty Lady Leatherface.

[rancid flare]

Good teams, they all have synergy

[spice tinsel]

Which one would be best for the towers?

[rancid flare]

Nightmare team, only if they’re highly fused though

Which they’re probably not

[spice tinsel]

Fusion 2 and 3.

[rancid flare]

So I’d say, maybe just keep the covert ops cassie team you’re using right now, or try Kombat cup team

I’m supposing the covert ops team has all characters at FX, right?

[spice tinsel]

KC Sonya Blade is Fusion 4 27, KC Johnny at Fusion 5 46, Covert Ops Cassie Cage at Fusion 7 50. Is that team able to work or is it not high enough?
And no, Takeda is Fusion 4 50 and High Tech Jacqui Briggs is at Fusion 3 50.

[rancid flare]

That KC team is not bad. Johnny and cassie would be your main damage dealers

I think it’ll take some work to do fatal with that KC team but in normal, you should have minimum to no problems

I think you’re gonna buy tower equipment packs too, right? If so, then anything will work

[spice tinsel]

I'm going to see what I get after my attempts on each tower.

[rancid flare]

Alright

[spice tinsel]

Hopefully today I can get past Fatal Battle 100 and then have the game laugh at me and give me Guardian Terminator.

[rancid flare]

I dont think you can get terminators from fatal towers lol

But hopefully you’re lucky today and you get a great diamond

[spice tinsel]

So Fatal Battle 100's Diamond pool is restricted?

Should I change anything else in my talent tree or is the rest of it fine?

[rancid flare]

I mean, yeah kinda. You can’t get shao kahn or any terminator through fatal battle 100 or normal battle 200

[spice tinsel]

How do you know that?

[rancid flare]

Conformation from Draco

[elder tusk]

Anything but rain

[rancid flare]

Shao kahn is relic hunt exclusive

Terminator is just super rare

[spice tinsel]

I really want Dark Fate Terminator.

[rancid flare]

You can always open the packs that include them

[elder tusk]

I want a sf Johnny

[rancid flare]

Same, he can become F5 for me if I do

[elder tusk]

Or mk11 skarlet or that op guy

That I tried too get this evening and got 1 of lol

[spice tinsel]

What other talents do I change other than dropping Shirai Ryu Teachings for Thunderous Blows?

[hardy girder]

Terminators can be obtained from F100, N200

[rancid flare]

They can be? Interesting

I’ve never seen someone get it from there though

[elder tusk]

Sf Johnny, mileena, assassin skarlet mk11 scorp, small list for me or klassic raiden again

[hardy girder]

I got Dark Fate twice from those drops

[rancid flare]

Oh wow, then that’s really lucky

[spice tinsel]

Is Lightning Blow much better than Art Of The Tsunami?

[rancid flare]

Yes. I have no idea why people choose art of the tsunami, it’s the most useless talent ever

[spice tinsel]

I also don't understand why Draco's guide recommends only leveling Lightning Blow to 3 instead of 5 in their build.

And Death Mark Technique only to 3 too.

[rancid flare]

Do the combo ender, and it damages the entire team. Cool. But we have something called recovery; the enemy is gonna heal back all his health in seconds

[rancid flare]

I have no idea why, you can ask draco that lol

[spice tinsel]

9% chance to cripple compared to 15% at max.

[hardy girder]

He has 107 talent points. Maybe he reduced some of them to fit 100 for others

[rancid flare]

Maybe it’s just to save talent points and use it on other trees

Oh wow, 107? I’ve only heard of people getting 102 or 104 max

[spice tinsel]

I have 102.

[hardy girder]

Some accounts have more than 102 because of some bug during the update

[rancid flare]

Big advantage for some players

[hardy girder]

Since it is from the game’s side, no consequence for that. Lucky for them

[rancid flare]

Indeed

[spice tinsel]

What is better? Intimidating Presence, Stalwart Defense, or Reaver's Armor?

[rancid flare]

I like intimidating presence better

[hardy girder]

Maybe Intimidating Presence

[rancid flare]

You can be immune to block breakers if you pair it with shadow sash. And block breakers are very annoying in FW

[spice tinsel]

Should I max it or no?

[hardy girder]

no need to

[rancid flare]

You can if you want to

[spice tinsel]

Then where should I stop maxing it? 3?

[rancid flare]

I always do but sometime you should save points

[spice tinsel]

12% good enough?

[rancid flare]

Yeah that seems good enough

[spice tinsel]

Live For Battle, Warlock's Spells, or Focused?

[rancid flare]

What does focused do again?

[spice tinsel]

Damage Boost against resurrected enemies.

[rancid flare]

Oh. So either warlock spells or live for battle is better

I say if you do lots of x-rays, live for battle

[spice tinsel]

Very rarely do I ever get to even use Special 3 or X-Rays.

[rancid flare]

Okay, then just invest in warlocks spells. It’s not a priority so you don’t need to max it out, max it if you want to

[spice tinsel]

When it says an attack will cost less power, is that basically after you use it, you have some power left over?

[rancid flare]

So basically, like with live for battle, if you do an x-ray, you will have 1 bar of power left

So you only spend 2 bars of power on an x-ray/fatal blow

2 bars instead of 3

[spice tinsel]

Meditation, Combat Veteran, or Unbreakable Will?

[rancid flare]

What does combat veteran do?

[spice tinsel]

Every 750 points of Toughness reduces Critical Damage.

[rancid flare]

Oh alright, we can immediately take that out, that’s bad

Unbreakable will is very useful for towers cause you know, the bosses have king kobra belt that will cripple you often

And you’re gonna do only special 2’s mostly so meditation is useless for you

So get unbreakable will, and I recommend to max it out. Then get hawk stance and you have 40% resistance to cripple right away

Then if you have tremor’s mask, 70% resistance

[spice tinsel]

Spec Ops Tactics or Teamwork?

[rancid flare]

Both are really good

[spice tinsel]

And I messed up, so I need to spend 12 souls again. XD

[rancid flare]

You can choose, it’s a little hard to decide

Oh alright that’s okay lol

[spice tinsel]

I accidentally unlocked the next tree in defense.

Conditioning or Weak Point Attacks?

[rancid flare]

If you’re gonna power drain, weak point attacks by far

But I think conditioning gives SP2 power cost reduction

So since you’ll be doing that a lot, pick that one

[spice tinsel]

What is the base combo ender chance?

[rancid flare]

Well after you max out precision, it’s a 100% chance for combo enders to occur

And maxing out precision gives you 30% increased combo ender chance

So this is just calculating with basic math. I’m not sure, but it should be 70% I guess?

[spice tinsel]

Is it necessary to max Precision?

[rancid flare]

100 - 30 = 70

Yes, if you want to chain easily, precision is a must-have

[spice tinsel]

If I want to save points though?

[rancid flare]

Then prepare to not generate as much as power without precision. It’s still possible to run games without precision so don’t take my word for it

Also you need to hit combo enders so the bosses can’t hit you

So it’s a big risk to let go of precision. Your choice though

[spice tinsel]

Should I max Lightning Blow?

Max chance for cripple on Special 1 is 15%.

[rancid flare]

If you want to. Lightning blow basically gives every single character in the game a chance for cripple

And this is not an ordinary cripple; it also disables x-rays too

The only really bad thing is that it lasts for 5 seconds only I believe

[spice tinsel]

Death Mark Technique should be maxed too?

Max is 25% chance, goes up by 5% for each level starting from 5%.

[rancid flare]

Only klassic goro on battle 180 really needs death mark

So if you wanna prepare for the future, sure

If not then don’t max it out

[spice tinsel]

5 points left.

[rancid flare]

Nice. What do you got unmaxed so far

Well unmaxed is not a word. I mean what do you have not maxed