#Can the rates of catching legendaries in beast balls please be researched?

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

river dew
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Doing the math that is available it seems like the rate to catch something like koraidon in a beast ball is around 0.16% and 1.26%, and this is without actually understanding how the equation actually fully works.

I find this concerning because when beast balls came out, it came out that the beast ball beldums people were trading were originally hacked, because the capture rate algorithm made it so that you had an effective capture rate of 0% regardless of hp or status. This is the case for many heavier pokemon.

I have a strong suspicion that BB Legendaries are too low chance rate to trust.

elder quiver
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Having personally caught the 4 ruinous legendaries in beast balls...

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peak fossil
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I mean the odds are low for sure but it's not fully zero. So there is a chance. Factoring in crit captures, it can take even less time. And some people just get luckier than others.

royal pasture
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The capture rate of 0% only happened with beldum in Generation 7 and has since been fixed. There is no catchable pokemon that has a 0% chance of capture when you throw a beast ball at it.
Also you vastly underestimate the willingness of pokemon players to sit and reset something for ridiculously low chances. Full odds legendary hunts in older games would have had 0.024% shiny rate or lower and there's plenty of those everywhere.

elder quiver
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Yes it took forever, but not impossible. And their catch rates are lower than box legendaries.

peak fossil
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Plus beast ball is pretty uwu_tsumiki And I have also spent ~5 hours to beast ball one mon.

elder quiver
peak fossil
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Zamazenta so rude smh

worldly wind
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GGs beast ball users

river dew
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Alright I didnt know it was a glitch making it impossible to catch BB Beldum.

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Thanks

zenith mural
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Personally took me 3 hours to BB a Miraidon but I did it MonkFingerGuns

sinful sigil
worldly silo
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I just recently caught Koraidon in a beast ball and it took 2 hours which is supposed to be really lucky, I heard of someone who tried for 3 days and didn’t get it

elder quiver
sinful sigil
royal pasture
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The chance for a critical capture to happen has always increased with number of pokemon registered in dex

sinful sigil
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Obv they don’t happen 100% of the time

elder quiver
sinful sigil
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in gen 9?

elder quiver
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Each shake is a random number generation occuring in the background and getting compared to the catch value

elder quiver
worldly silo
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If you’re trying for a beast ball legend take a tip from me: use level 72 miraidon and use dragon breath. This almost but doesn’t kill and has chance for paralysis, much more efficient than throwing ball immediately

elder quiver
worldly silo
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Dragon breath was mindless too, the first two shakes I didn’t even see

sinful sigil
# elder quiver Yes on my ruinous project

weird. I spent 2 days resetting to get my box legend in a beast ball and not no crits up until the throw which it caught in. Meanwhile, nearly every throw against a common, easy to catch mons crits. I even spent a long time resetting for a large gimmighoul and every throw that it was caught in was a crit. But any throws that didn’t crit it broke out.

elder quiver
river dew
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But critting is also tied to overall capture rate. Pretty sure if the rate is too low your crit chance is next to nothing

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I crit much more if the pokemon is 1hp and or asleep

river dew
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At least id imagine

sinful sigil
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I never played dnd GengarSad

elder quiver
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Total pokemon registered, whether you've already registered the pokemon in question, and current catch value result (status, PokeBall, current HP, etc)

river dew
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You roll with modifiers against the enemies armor class. Add what you roll plus the bonuses and or negatives and check against the armor class.

There are times where their armor class is going to be 20+ higher than your modifier to hit them effectively making them impossible to hit.

BUT you crit rolling a natural 20 and it now hits and deals double damage or more.

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The crit chance probably hits a threshold where the % is higher than the base capture rate when the BCR gets too low

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For pokemon. Hence why officerporkchop sat there for 2 days failing every throw then suddenly critting it

north stone
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As someone who caught gmax pokemon in swsh with beast balls I can totally say that it’s not all that far fetched for people to catch legendaries in beast balls

river dew
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And considering there probably arent too many people actually attempting to catch their box legendary in a beast ball, through the combined facts that while there are a lot of us that collect apriball mons in their various forms, not too many would be willing to sit there and reset for that long, PLUS you have the fact that many that might later want to, but already caught it and the chance is now gone.

Even considering its plausible to catch them within a decent time frame, I still feel like there would be so few in actual circulation it would be worth making trading such a pokemon stricter, as in my opinion, its still incredibly likely many of them that are being circulated at the moment are fake.

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The original person that caught my attention about this claimed that someone traded it for a non beast ball miraidon, which tells me the person most likely didnt understand the value of what they had or didnt see it as valuable as one would assume

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It leaves open the very big possibility the person knew it was hacked and was effectively washing dubious currency

north stone
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Oh I beg to differ, I’m willing to bet there are plenty of people out there aiming to catch the legendary in a beast ball. I think you underestimate the length that the average player base goes through to catch pokemon in flex balls

peak fossil
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Having a mon in a specific ball doesn't immediately make it hacked. Only if the ball is illegal to obtain in game. In this case, beast ball is earnable, and you can get multiple (through the Ace tournament or via trading).

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And I know several people who have sit for long, long hours to try and beast ball one mon

river dew
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My whole point, is that in my opinion, there is too high of a chance of it being hacked compared to it being legit and without using third party sources, no way to verify its legitimacy.

I fully understand that there are going to be people with them, i get it. What I'm saying is that specifically I feel there are going to be too little of them actually circulating this early on for people to be able to trust without extra checks in place, like restricting the trade of such pokemon to people with higher levels of verification.

peak fossil
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That is untrue regarding the legitimacy of mons all because of a ball it is in. The ball is earnable in game and you can get multiple.

river dew
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Well then why are 6IV shinies banned on the server? You can get them legitimately as well

peak fossil
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If the beast ball was not in game then yeah, it would be 100% hacked. But it is in game, it is earnable, and beast ball also passes down via breeding.

river dew
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with the correct parents its a 1/31 chance when the shiny pops out of it being 6iv

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very plausible for people to get on their first try

peak fossil
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6IV shinies require you to get extremely lucky. Wild 6IV shinies are impossible. Also, it is a 1/32 chance on top of a 1/512 chance of being shiny. They are tradebanned in SV right now because they are a heavy target as hacks.

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And the 1/512 is at maximum breeding odds

river dew
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are 6IV dittos not a 1/31 chance from 5-6 star raids?

peak fossil
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Shiny is the key here.

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And in raids, they do not have increased odds

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For shinyness

river dew
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5-6 star raids have base 5iv pokemon

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that means the random iv has a 1/31 chance of being perfect

peak fossil
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1/32

flint oar
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1/32, 0 counts

river dew
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my bad 1/32 either way doesnt change much

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legitimate 6IV dittos are very much in circulation

flint oar
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Not shiny ones

river dew
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thats not the point

peak fossil
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I mean we can argue semantics all night but my point is just because somebody used a ball they earned in game to catch a mon does not immediately make it hacked.

river dew
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we are talking about generating a shiny 6iv pokemon compared to the chances of a beast ball box legendary being hacked or legitimate

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i havent said just because its in a beast ball its hacked

zenith mural
flint oar
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Are you arguing because you want beast ball Pokemon banned in this server? Cause that's not going to happen 🙏 if you want to research beast balls then go ahead but you won't get anywhere wasting time and energy here when you could be researching

river dew
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ive said that i think there is too high of a chance of it being the case to be able to trust without further checks in place

flint oar
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U also don't factor in the human spirit of "I want the nice shiny beast ball" and the fact that people are willing to do and wait however long it takes

crimson arch
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rise up beast ball chads

zenith mural
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Save game, Encounter, throw beastball, Pokémon breaks out, reset game, Encounter, throw beastball, Pokémon breaks out, reset game, Encounter, throw beastball, Pokémon finally stayed in the ball. Walk away smiling MiddleMonk

gentle cloak
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This is without full pokedex, beast ball catch rate at 100% health, no status

Screen_Shot_2022-12-18_at_6.03.47_PM.png
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This is with full pokedex, beast ball catch rate at 1 hp, asleep

Screen_Shot_2022-12-18_at_6.04.10_PM.png
zenith mural
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Based on my experiences that feels accurate

gentle cloak
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Do you want more info, because you can do more research and calculating on your own end

river dew
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Alright, thank you. Still dont think thats a high enough capture rate to warrant not being suspicious

gentle cloak
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That's approximately 33 tries

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Which you can realistically do in 3 or less hours

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It's all based on your luck, so use that info as you will

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Btw those are calculated based on zacian's catch rate in swsh, so arguably those are worse rates than almost any other pokemon in SV

river dew
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Alright well I've already said everything I've wanted to say, it went misunderstood, but shit happens. Have a good day.

gentle cloak
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This is the website if you're curious

river dew
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I used that website for my calculations as well. used thundurus because it has the same base capture rate as koraidon

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never was i trying to argue that there arent a good amount of people that would be willing to capture their box legendary in a beast ball.

ive been arguing other factors that make it impossible in my opinion to trust someone trying to trade one without being able to verify their reputation or the pokemon itself

gentle cloak
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I'll give you that point that many people with beast ball legendaries are difficult to get. However, banning all legendaries in beast balls because of rarity isn't feasible in a server this large. If someone wants to spend ~3 hours to catch something, then trade it away, that's on them.

What you're proposing is the ban of anything involving any modicum of effort, which defeats the whole purpose of having trading channels. If you want to personally avoid such trades, then go ahead, that's your conviction. But expecting us to put that opinion on a server this big, to me doesn't seem very helpful, nor even enforceable.

river dew
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I havent said ban once

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Restricting is different than outright banning

gentle cloak
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Then what are you proposing

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Restrict what, trading legendaries in beast balls?

river dew
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Maybe something like make it so that only people with 10 or 20 trades + can trade them. if someone is serious about trading they will easily reach that number within a few days or less and people that arrive to just dump hacked ones would be dissuaded

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maybe even make the number higher, i wouldnt care at all about being restricted in that sense for a while. other people might be a little grumpy, but its better than potentially allowing undetected hacked pokemon onto the server

gentle cloak
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What you're proposing is impossible for us to track. Trade rep is at the discretion of the traders, time on the server doesn't have any bearing on trades, talking experience doesn't either. Unless you're expecting us to comb through everyone's dms, that's literally impossible for anyone to do

river dew
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you guys already DO have reputation levels on the server for using the middleman service yes?

gentle cloak
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Reputation levels like I said is at the discretion of the traders

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I'd say 1/10 trades I do, I get one rep

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A majority of the trades on the server are done without middleman service

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So while we appreciate your concern, there is nothing we can do to implement your suggestion into this server

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In the meantime, you are welcome to bring any specific concerns you see to #reports and talk to moderators there, but as far as this is concerned, we can't do anything about this right now

river dew
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so you are telling me i need to do around 100 effective trades through the middleman service to move up to the great ball level???

crimson arch
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no

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that's done via talking

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rep isnt the levels

river dew
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thats what i was pointing to, use that to measure effective reputation on the server for such trades, isnt it already in place to do sort of that anyway?

peak fossil
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I mean somebody who talks a lot to get to Great ball rank can still scam

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And even a person with 100+ trade rep could one day scam

river dew
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alright well then set it higher

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and then what is the point of using a trade rep system if you dont believe in its effectiveness?

peak fossil
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It's a fun thing to have?

velvet nicheBOT
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cleffa#1125 (ID 148700656289579010)

[Message](#server_questions message) in #server_questions
Every minute you talk, you gain a random amount of XP which contribute to levels which corresponds to a ball role, the available ball roles are

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gentle cloak
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This is the "rep" that you're referring to

peak fossil
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In the end it doesn't really mean shit if the person does a turn.

river dew
molten zenith
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We have a trading rep system so you can also check your trade partner’s trade rep and decide yourself if you want to do high value trades with them without a middleman. It’s not a end all be all way to tell if they’ll scam you or not. We always recommend you use our #669522122846240768 to ensure you don’t get scammed. If you want to be sure that you’re not getting a hacked beast ball mon, you’re more than welcome to use that service. We have no intention of restricting users from trading Pokémon caught in beast balls

river dew
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Do you guys use third party software to datamine the pokemon we give you through the middle man queue???

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Not saying I mind it, just curious

molten zenith
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Our middlemen have a solid understanding of hacked pokemon and ensure that you’re not receiving something that’s blatantly hacked. They also ensure that you don’t get scammed by your partner when it comes to multiple ball or Pokémon trades

river dew
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Alrighty, I just thought it was worth considering as it fits along the line of having stuff like 6IV shinies banned as well as stuff like 3 segment shiny dudunsparce banned, but restricting to higher trade reputations seemed appropriate to me.

In my opinion there is going to be enough people actively hatching eggs with 6IV parents and enough people hunting shiny 3 segment/ family of 3s compared to how many people would be willing to trade out a BB Box Legendary after spending the effort to catch it to make the chances of naturally finding one for trade in the same ball park.

When looking at the probability of finding a pokemon up for trade, you arent just looking at the probability of being able to obtain it in the game, you also need to look at how many people would be willing to trade one out.

Box legendaries caught in beast balls are going to be something people are more likely to not even list in their trades, where as there are probably many people shiny hunting family of 3 maushold simply to say they got it and then will quickly offload it for a shiny they like more.