competitive_discussion

[spiral ridge]

It’s just not a worth move too risky

[dapper oak]

thats the whole reason i put it on cause i thought it got no guard when it megad😅

ah well time to change

[cerulean nacelle]

If ur using mega golurk use poltergeist, headlong rush, ice punch and protect for doubles.

[spiral ridge]

Hawlucha gets it

[dapper oak]

im using for singles

oh that might be what i was thinking of

[spiral ridge]

Idk if the bird gets dynamic tho

[dapper oak]

im doing poltergeist, headlong rush, ice punch, and knock off for singles

[chrome knot]

fake outs u @spiral ridge

[cerulean nacelle]

Then still poltergeist, headlong rush/EQ, ice punch (gliscor and chomp) and then probably a move of your choice like knock.

Though mega golurk is gonna be harder to use in singles.

[spiral ridge]

I’m a giraffe

Psychics you

[chrome knot]

mold breaker

[spiral ridge]

What fo mon has mold breaker

So that I can stay the fuck away from it

[dapper oak]

wait regular golurk has no guard im slow bru

[chrome knot]

tink!!

[bold geode]

Balls

[spiral ridge]

Ah shit the baby

[cerulean nacelle]

Only tink I believe.

[spiral ridge]

Only a hammerful

[chrome knot]

yeah

[molten oasis]

I read above, like with the rain stuff

[chrome knot]

scary stuff

[spiral ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/tinkaton-pokemon-gen-9-pokemon-hammer-pokemon-pink-pokemon-walking-gif-9323834007821376373

Very scary look at it

Frightening really

[molten oasis]

Forgot a bunch of random mons get rain dance and shit

[chrome knot]

yeah i named my pogo shiny one tiny tina

[cerulean nacelle]

Mega gyarados is low-key very fun.

[spiral ridge]

Aweeee

[chrome knot]

dusk named hers gaige

[spiral ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/tiny-tina-borderlands-roll-for-initiative-gif-17906019854448756067

[dapper oak]

glimmora is better lol

[spiral ridge]

Kill kill kill

Gaige?

[cerulean nacelle]

I am on about doubles.

[dapper oak]

ah

[cerulean nacelle]

And even then I wouldn't use mega glimm lol.

[dapper oak]

u down to battle? i want to test some stuff out

[chrome knot]

yeah the bl2 character

[spiral ridge]

Oh Also nice record of ragnarok pfp that’s one of my fave fights

[cerulean nacelle]

It is almost 2 in the morning for me rn. I do need to go pass out unfortunately. Maybe some other time.

[spiral ridge]

I checked images Idr her :(

[dapper oak]

ah shoot alright get some sleep man

[cerulean nacelle]

Cheers dude. Best of luck with whatever ur cooking with golurk

[dapper oak]

thanks man

anyone else down to battle?

[molten oasis]

Best borderland dlc by a mile

[chrome knot]

big fan of bounty of blood TBH

rose is fucking hot

[spiral ridge]

Oh dlc

I wasn’t able to do dlc :(((

[molten oasis]

True that’s like second imo

Fun guns from that dlc too

[next dust]

Alr final check, how's the hyper offense gengar team looking? I haven't had time to ev spread yet since I'm at work but move and synergy wise?

[chrome knot]

i rly liked psycho krieg dlc & the pre sequel claptastic voyage one

fucking hate bl3 for ava tho i couldn’t believe how they wrote off my favourite character

[molten oasis]

I never played psycho krieg. I need to do that

[chrome knot]

do it

[molten oasis]

Tbf I need to do all those dlc, I think they’re all on game pass so

And play through presequel at somepoint

Kinda wish 4 was better

[chrome knot]

the dlc has very good echo dialogues

heartbreaking

[molten oasis]

Noted

[kindred current]

My win ratio got better when I was talking to someone about the moves I was making, I should do that more often

[ripe grail]

It's a good option to have
Love 1 shotting incin

Any other changes dude
Or this team looking nice now?

[rustic mountain]

any1 watch the grand champions festival tour this weekend?

[foggy lodge]

Me

[rustic mountain]

some really good games

[foggy lodge]

Fr

[rustic mountain]

raghav played so well

[foggy lodge]

Yeah

He got a bit lucky in finals but like in the long run it didn't even matter

[rustic mountain]

eh he did

thats a part of any successful run tho

it really was just g2 tbh

the mdb santi set was a rollercoaster they really were letting it rip some turns so many mind games

[foggy lodge]

Also he won with wide guard aerodactyl thats cool

[foggy lodge]

lmao i will watch that later i didn't see it live

[rustic mountain]

i think we r gna see that more often on zard y teams

[foggy lodge]

I saw his round from top 16

[rustic mountain]

it does protect zard pretty well

[rustic mountain]

yeh it was top 8 if im not mistaken

[foggy lodge]

He got so unlucky there😭 rock slide flinch turn 1 miss hydro pump turn 2 crit turn 3 and lost a 50/50 later

But he won a sucker punch 50/50 and won because of it

[rustic mountain]

r u talkin top 16?

[foggy lodge]

Yeah

[rustic mountain]

idt i saw that set lol

[foggy lodge]

it was on alexs stream

[rustic mountain]

who

[foggy lodge]

Alex Gómez

[rustic mountain]

ohhhhh

[foggy lodge]

Also the person who got second was using UB slow's team

[fading thorn]

does anyone know if there is a way to bug report on champions?, i just played a match where orthworms shed tail sub didn't protect the new recipient of the sub, like all my damage hit the pokemon behind the sub without ever breaking the sub

[jade dust]

Bro how much longer till I even reach masters 1

[umbral jasper]

if psychic terrain is up, does that mean I can't use my Prankster Meowstic to use thunderwave on enemies unless they are flying or levitating?
can flying/levitating mons use priority on those touching the ground?
Can I still use Helping Hand in Psychic terrain?

[stuck perch]

https://x.com/normalssbbbx/status/2048396350652596534?s=46&t=KB4CVv355gDMDGNjhuVNuA

Lorelei (@Normalssbbbx)

Been teaching my gf VGC and she hit Master Ball which completely reinforces my belief that the best way to learn the game is to use reasonably powerful teams that lean into a specific Pokémon you like

X · Apr 26, 2026, 1:38 PM

[dense latch]

yes
no, other way around — you can hit ungrounded mons with priority in psychic terrain
yes

[dense latch]

what move did you use

[umbral jasper]

thanks man

[gentle crag]

mochi_suisei has given 1 Gen Rep to eriksp

[fading thorn]

hyper voice? and dazzling gleam

[dense latch]

sound moves ignore substitutes

if dgleam hit through it then im not sure what happened there

[fading thorn]

i know the hyper voice hit through just not sure about dazzling gleam, i clicked it twice just can't remember if he protected both times or not, maybe i'm just mis remembering what happened

[dense latch]

but yea hyper voice hitting the target rather than the substitute is what is meant to happen since it’s a sound move

[umbral jasper]

which priority slot is used when using Prankster Trick Room on Meowstic?

[spiral ridge]

Wdym

Priority slot?

The way prankster works is it adds one priority to status moves

Trick room has like -6 prio
It goes up to -5 not +1 prio
If that’s what you’re confused on

So basically the only thing that tr will go before is a non prankster trick room

[dry nexus]

is this decent?

I had a clefairy but I'm planning of swapping it out for aegislash

[spiral ridge]

Why only one protect

Two kings shield

You’re running max max mons that could get OHKOd p easy id want some protects

[dry nexus]

should I give tauros one?

I can't see me using rock slide with him

then move the speed investments of zard towards defenses

since I'm relying on it to pull a dragon dance off most of the time

[spiral ridge]

I’d say most mons this reg should have protect lowkey

For which move id remove on each mon for protect

Zard t punch Taurus rock slide aero iron hand and raichu nuzzle

[dry nexus]

thunder punch is staying on zard btw it's hilarious

best I can do is remove rock slide on tauros and maybe iron head aero

[dense latch]

it looks really hard to set up a ddance with zard here

[spiral ridge]

Yeah

[dry nexus]

yeah

[dense latch]

it’s just raichu

[dry nexus]

maybe I'll remove raichu and put clefairy back

[spiral ridge]

Why do you need d dance
What moves aren’t ohkoing without the boost

And int what

[dry nexus]

dragon claw on mega dragonite

[dense latch]

i had two fake outs + redirection with ddance zard x

[spiral ridge]

Bring aero
Tailwind t1 and then rock slide and d claw

Can protect t1 to set tw if necessary

[dense latch]

ddance is the play with zard x for sure u just have to support it better

[dry nexus]

I did had a match where someone baton passed a nasty plot to mega dragonite

the ddance boosted dragon claw just put it to range of death by rock slide before it did anything

[spiral ridge]

Ok then

Yeah clef or maybe sinircha or scovillain for redirect

[dry nexus]

I do think zard x is decently bulky

[spiral ridge]

Prolly clef as flying moves

[dry nexus]

yeah im putting clefairy back

clefable

[spiral ridge]

Do add protects tho

[dry nexus]

shit 😭 I miss clefairy

[dense latch]

sini is great if u want redirection

[spiral ridge]

Also give clef sitrus and Taurus either scarf or the grass or electric hairy

[dry nexus]

my clefable had

• Knock off
• Helping hand
• Follow me
• Protect

[dense latch]

hospitality and life dew are amazing to keep zard healthy

[dry nexus]

the issue with that is it needs sinistcha in the back

I'm scared someone might be worried by zard enough to go all out target it

[dense latch]

that’s why you need extra disruption

[spiral ridge]

You can lead sini
Just would have to rotate stuff around to get the heal
Whic you’d need protect to do

[dense latch]

fake out or intimidate something to mitigate damage in the early game

or yea just lead sini it’s not a bad lead

[dry nexus]

I'm not really keen on bringing back incin to this lineup this team really crumbles when a ground type comes in the picture, even kingambit as well

[dense latch]

the team doesnt look super cohesive as it stands i feel like

[dry nexus]

then again it's intimidate sets off defiant boost

[dry nexus]

that's my teambuilding in a nutshell

[dense latch]

you can find zard x teams from the champions festival tournament if you want some inspiration

[dry nexus]

I do wanna try doing stuff myself first and see how far I can go

[dense latch]

that’s alright

[dry nexus]

I'm not really sold on having an aegislash yet, that's just me noticing my team have 0 special attacker

[spiral ridge]

In like a nice way there’s bigger fish to fry than no special attackers you’re good rn love

[dry nexus]

time to shoehorn basculegion in again 💀

I'll start from scratch but I'm keeping zard x

I wanna bring mega skarmory in is it worth?

[cyan smelt]

Depends if you're struggling against redirection

[leaden fox]

Considering we don’t have too many mons that are able to redirect (think there is under five overall); shouldn’t be an issue until they start adding more with that capability

Never mind; just checked that it is seven overall 😂

[dry nexus]

sinistcha does seem to appear frequently

[cyan smelt]

Sinistcha, maus and mega scovillain seem to be the main culprits

[strong anchor]

Huh just saw a tofu on the ladder, guess it wasnt the tofu here

[leaden fox]

Seen Clefable every so often; but not that frequently

[dry nexus]

it's hard to justify clefable

when clefairy is so much better

[strong anchor]

Fari is also in a similar slot

[leaden fox]

Yeah; Clefairy and Eviolite will be better

Also Indeedee will be great to see again

[cyan smelt]

Rocky helmet will be great to see again

[dry nexus]

making only a few hundreds legal per regulation really seems like a smart choice

[leaden fox]

Oh yeah; forgot about Amoongus 😂

[cyan smelt]

Is it bad that i kinda miss the shroom

[dry nexus]

I never liked the guy

[cyan smelt]

I hope ferrothorn is legal soon

[leaden fox]

I mean; not that bad since Megas are about luckily 😂

[cyan smelt]

Ferrothorn can put the hurt on sneasler

[dry nexus]

I miss galarian corsola

zacian hard folds in front of that little guy

[leaden fox]

I remember running Ferro and Rocky Helmet back in the day lol

[cyan smelt]

I remember in swsh days i 1v2 incin and zacian just by strength sapping them both

With gorsola

[dry nexus]

that's my goat

[cyan smelt]

Can't do that anymore now that gambit is a thing

[leaden fox]

At least the upside to Champions; we can see them do multiple mechanic formats, not just the one, so will feel less stale

[dry nexus]

there's barely any answer to that guy if you only brought in physical attackers

[cyan smelt]

In tr it's just a wall, it can wisp and strength sap everything

[dry nexus]

umbreon and toxipex do outstall it easily

[cyan smelt]

And garg

It can't do much to garg

Now i'm thinking of setting up toxic spikes with something then setting up tr and just strength sapping away, sounds like fun

[dry nexus]

I like umbreon as a pokemon but I loathe facing against it in singles

[waxen dock]

Reg i is good reg

So happy utrecht is reg i

[leaden fox]

I’m still waiting until 29th - 31st May for our first Champions one 😂

[dry nexus]

I wanted to run special aegislash but this guy has no checks for the king of gambits of you run special 😭

[torn parrot]

Im so happy you’ve been enjoying it and even found success! Well done Emma ❤️

[chrome knot]

yaaayyy

been wondering thoo how often does protect come up, mega dnite is a little bit of problem & triple axel would make dnite rain 100-0 mu

[torn parrot]

Honestly you can make any changes you feel would fit the team best, there’s definitely room for improvement improvement in some areas

Like sinsicha iv been thinking about if i need to replace

[chrome knot]

i’ve been changing as i go, like asking bc its a second set of eyes that definitely plays more

sinis unfortunately kinda mandatory for the stupid blastoise mu lmao

[torn parrot]

Honestly with mega dnight I defintely get where your coming from he can be an annoying pain in the butt there isn’t a lot that hits him for big damage

[chrome knot]

triple axel gambling

[torn parrot]

Gives him an opportunity to sit there set up tailwind do whatever he needs to do

[chrome knot]

i jus played 2 at the local & draco jus kills arch even as fat arch lmfao so im either gonna revise spread or just be triple axel bunny so the mu is free

go like fake out cc triple axel rain dance

[formal parrot]

I didn't know you can technically have 2 protean activations with Gren by just saving the mega

Thx Wolfey

[leaden fox]

Yeah, makes Greninja have a double type change, so helps overall

[cyan smelt]

i did it! i made it to master ball 4

had to really work and make some predictions for my rank up match though

[cerulean nacelle]

Ive been fuckin about with this

Some changes I may make are turning hex into either shadow ball or protect. I may also change clefable to something else.

[cyan smelt]

i've been annoyed with will-o-wisp's accuracy

but it might make things easier against gambits and sneaslers

[harsh depot]

Hey, I need to get to Rank S in online play in ZA for the Hoenn Megas. What's a good team to use?

Oh, wrong channel. mb

[cerulean nacelle]

Skeledirge makes sneasler trivial. And being faster than no speed investment gambit does actually make will o wisp a good way to reduce damage.

[cyan smelt]

Will o miss though

[cerulean nacelle]

There's also rock miss, heat miss, electro miss. It's part of the game unfortunately.

[cyan smelt]

Not hydro miss though, i swear it always connects

[cerulean nacelle]

I'll miss a will o wisp but someone will hit a 70% accurate thunder against me. You can't make that shit up.

Or ill get dire claw paralysed Into full paralysis...

Yeah OK game.

[lost sun]

thunders only inaccurate outside the rain tho

[cerulean nacelle]

It was outside rain lol

[cyan smelt]

I'm thinking about switching to poison touch because dire claw never procs anymore

[cerulean nacelle]

Nah unburden is way to valuable.

[cyan smelt]

I'm unburden sash should i switch to white herb

[lost sun]

probably

[cerulean nacelle]

I use white herb

It's a lot more relevant I feel like

Man I love mega gyarados but it does feel like anything bad that can happen will happen lol.

[cyan smelt]

Mega gyarados sounds great into mega blastoise

[cerulean nacelle]

In theory should be

[cyan smelt]

Except the aura sphere

[cerulean nacelle]

Honestly the best thing about mega gyarados is it doesn't have to necessarily mega.

Maybe that's what I switch clef for. A secondary mega.

I feel like i never wanna bring clef to any match ups anyway.

[cyan smelt]

Intim before tera then mega sounds fun

Oops no tera

[cerulean nacelle]

Tbh the type change is also very fun. Can be hard to predict at times, removes weaknesses like rock and can give powerful dark stab to deal with things like sinistcha.

[bold geode]

You can use a Sash set and still use Unburden

Bit wack but honestly not really a better ability lol

[cyan smelt]

Idk it feels like there's never anything bringing me down to sash

[cerulean nacelle]

Its only extreme cases. And unfortunately aerodactyl has dual wing beat which will beat sneasler even if you get down to sash.

All sash does is mean an intimidate off incineroar makes your sneasler unable to KO it via CC.

[chrome knot]

homkshooo honkshoooo

[bold geode]

WAKE UP EMMA

[cyan smelt]

Some incins are running chople

[bold geode]

Wakey wakey Emma it's time for skoo

[cerulean nacelle]

Even then, sneasler CC puts them in very low range to the point where they are probably a spread moves hit away from death.

I definitely need to revise my team, I think washtom needs editing. I like electroweb for some speed control but aerodactyl can still be a nuisance.

I think what ima look into is a secondary mega however. Gyarados is great but having a second mega partner over the clefable spot may be what I need.

[chrome knot]

nooo i m going back to bed i just made a gross icky archaludon spread

[bold geode]

https://tenor.com/view/bedtime-voodi-fall-fail-gif-12153790

[cerulean nacelle]

I'm curious

[bold geode]

Wakey wakey

[cerulean nacelle]

queue the solo levelling meme

[chrome knot]

look dm

[cerulean nacelle]

Would my team work better If i went max offense with a scarf rotom?

[cyan smelt]

Scarf rotom is funny

[cerulean nacelle]

Scarf rotom with volt switch and the e Web spread could be useful.

Also very funny is that I seem to always run into adamant sneaslers so my jolly sneasler wins the fake out war.

I might try max speed timid scarf rotom wash on my team.

Still need to think of a secondary mega though. Maybe I'll do sash aerodactyl in place of clef for the time being.

[strong anchor]

Is secondary mega common?

Btw anyone got a tipp for my meme team

https://pokepast.es/11f4cc4386bc6efc

I feel theres potential as you can ohko mega froslass through screens.

[cerulean nacelle]

Quite a few teams run a secondary mega.

It can add variety to your game plan, say a mega doesn't do well into a certain team but your second mega does and vice versa.

[dark sorrel]

The winner of the Grand Champions Festival was running double megas, but the others in the top 4 were only running one. There was only one other double mega team in the top 8

and one rain team, which is irrelevant to this conversation, but nice to see

[cerulean nacelle]

Big up rain haha

It's certainly not mandatory but it can be useful.

I'm mainly just trying to see how I can edit my team to work better overall.

[real prairie]

I just can't get into a groove atm. marginally winning more than im losing but its painful even when i win

[strong anchor]

Fair
I dont know the data but how often are both megas or no mega brought in

[chrome knot]

bunny team time

[cerulean nacelle]

Yeah this is kinda my issue. I can't seem to find a team I really vibe with.

[kindred current]

That's so valid, I miss having froslass on my team

[cerulean nacelle]

With 2 megas it's unlikely that no megas are brought at all.

The likelihood of both megas being brought is variable. For example some teams for a while did use mega ttar and mega gengar on the same team. Two different megas for 2 different occasions. But ttar can function independently without having to mega.

Same with teams that run gyarados. A few have gyaradosite because gyarados can just d dance and either stay mega or non mega to do damage.

[cyan smelt]

I'm getting used to my team I feel, I need to get used to making the right switches and bringing the right mons but it feels ok

[cerulean nacelle]

I like my bulky froslass team but it does need revising.

Kommo-o needs to go. There's just not nearly enough situations where I wanna bring it anymore.

[cyan smelt]

Kommo-o feels like it's in a weird spot, it's really hard to get it set up

[cerulean nacelle]

Yeah that's my main issue.

It also doesn't help that aero threatens it with dual wingbeat, and fairies are prevelant with mega floette or some niche ones like sylveon or gardevoir.

Not to mention kommo-o can't really enter into a TR scenario either.

[cyan smelt]

Peli arch would be tricky for it too

[cerulean nacelle]

Because clangorous soul is an omni.

[cerulean nacelle]

Tbh with aurora veil and mega froslass, I have lead kommo-o + froslass before.

Changing the weather to set up veil and letting my kommo-o get it's omni boost while the opponent is either focused on tryna do damage to froslass or hit a 70% accurate not very strong hurricane actually puts archaludon in a pretty bad situation.

Arch also can't handle spread blizzard + clanging scales and arch definitely cannot handle a +1 aura sphere.

But even then those positives don't outweighs the negatives.

[timber falcon]

I feel like every team has an iron clad method or mode that completely invalidates Charizard Y nowadays

Or at least tries to

[real prairie]

im wondering if a mega crabominable team is the way to go, it takes out most of the meta atm

[cyan smelt]

Galarian slowking with chilly reception

[spark siren]

What is a good doubles team for Hisuian arcanine?

[cerulean nacelle]

Mega crab wants too much imo.

[real prairie]

only really wants TR

[strong anchor]

Tbh i feel a mega zard y +venu lead is atm very hard to counter

[strong anchor]

Can work but youre hard tr then

[cerulean nacelle]

It also really doesn't like mega floette redirection or zard venu etc. It's typing is just kinda volatile.

Imo crabominable doesn't take off for the same reasons mega golurk doesn't take off.

[real prairie]

Not really, its sneasler + Aero fake out + tailwind

and turn 2 you have advantage

[cerulean nacelle]

^ also this. This does hard counter it.

[strong anchor]

Fair

[strong anchor]

He can in theory be on most teams

[real prairie]

the core i really need to focus on which is the one that becomes just a slug fest is the sneasler + Aero + Basc + Gambit

[cerulean nacelle]

Maybe that's what I do. Mega aero + mega gyarados.

[spark siren]

What would be a good ev spread (bulky intimidate build)

[cerulean nacelle]

Can then run white herb chomp and focus sash sneas

That could be decent.

[strong anchor]

Team dependent.
But max atk max hp is always a safe one

[real prairie]

honestly just 32-32-2 and run it with e-speed, rockslide, flare blitz

[cerulean nacelle]

^

[cerulean nacelle]

Yeah sneasler basc gambit is the core rn. It is annoying to deal with.

[strong anchor]

Is it just me or is intimidate MUCH worse with the available mons

[cerulean nacelle]

Intimidate is still a good ability. It never won't be. And the mons that use intimidate haven't changed. But the settings for mons like competitive milotic and defiant kingambit to work are very strong rn. Making intimidate a double edged sword.

[spark siren]

What should the last 2 points be invested in?

[cerulean nacelle]

Lowest defensive stat probably.

[real prairie]

whatever you feel appropriat e

[cerulean nacelle]

Or health if you wanna be safe.

[strong anchor]

Theres also not that many good mons hurt by intimidate atm

[cerulean nacelle]

An intimidate on basculegion can actually be good.

[real prairie]

Far too many milotic and Gambit around

[cerulean nacelle]

But yeah, lots of milotic and gambit makes it a risk

Hence why like I've been saying, sneasler has overtaken Incin as the fake out support because of not giving stat boosts to milotic or gambit, threatening to OHKO gambit or do big damage on a milotic since most are specially bulky.

[strong anchor]

Yeah i felt it atm kind of a hindrance at ome points

[cerulean nacelle]

There's still some niche mons that don't like intimidate. Like i said basc doesn't like doing less damage even if it's adaptability. But it's not a huge priority.

[strong anchor]

Fair though hes hard to pass.
And most intim users cant tank him

I think i gotta drop my team till av or similar is released

[bold geode]

It's still good
The problem is like

The main guy is Incineroar of course but like hol up

[strong anchor]

Incin looses to a lot of the current matchups

[cerulean nacelle]

Yeah my niche use case was intim incin on my bulky veil team actually letting me get Incin in on a predicted last respects to tank scarf bascu.

[real prairie]

going to give crab a go now

[bold geode]

Here's usage stats from the GCF this weekend (Grand Champions Festival, largest VGC tournament in history to date)

Look at the Pokemon around Incineroar or the ones that have more usage at some point

They all give him trouble

[strong anchor]

Oh wait, screens...that might be a idea

[bold geode]

Sneasler can one shot Incineroar
I think Garchomp MIGHT be able to
Basculegion can one shot him
Aerodactyl pressures at neutral
Kingambit has Defiant

[cerulean nacelle]

A lot higher for incin in all of em than I thought.

[bold geode]

And the thing is those 5 mons are pretty splashable

[cerulean nacelle]

But yeah, incin ain't liking the fest of mons that do well into him lol.

[bold geode]

Hell 3 Pokemon you'll see on a lot of teams are Sneasler Basculegion Kingambit cuz they kind of all beat each other

[real prairie]

yeah mega crab works so well into a lot of these

[bold geode]

Btw 3050 Sneasler in that tournament and not a damn one of them won

[real prairie]

🤣

what was the winning team

[bold geode]

Zard Y Floette

https://play.limitlesstcg.com/tournament/69c30ae236f5b5c303dbce1c/player/mudhiman/teamlist

[cyan smelt]

How'd blastoise go

[cerulean nacelle]

Bro I just lost a match to bright powder basculegion 😭

I was in a winning position too lol

You can't make this shit up

[strong anchor]

I mean thats the bad part about powder being the 7th best item.
Its getting used anyway

[cerulean nacelle]

Yeah that one is more tilting tbh. But it is what it is.

I just missed another hit because bright powder lmao

Bright powder farigiraf.

Only in casuals.

[polar canyon]

Who up tricking them room

I wanna build more bulky teams but don't know where to start

All I do is offense, pivot and disruption spam and/or trick room

[dark sorrel]

just under 3% of useage, but nothing in the top cut

[polar canyon]

Every time I'm trying to build a new team one of my top priorities is "what's my counter play to sleep powder venu"

[cyan smelt]

Ok so that annoying farig blastoise team probably doesn't have legs then

[lavish frost]

Same lol

[polar canyon]

Maybe I should run dual wingbeat talonflame/aerodactyl

[real prairie]

mega crab works but its no less of a slug fest

[polar canyon]

Does talonflame ko venu

[real prairie]

just 15 turns of protect and switching to stall trick room for them to lose anyway

[lavish frost]

Anyway, I did get as high as 1670 on showdown running a more tr focused team with aurorus and azu

[real prairie]

no

[cyan smelt]

Just run no item acrobatics

[polar canyon]

32+ Atk Talonflame Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 2 HP / 0 Def Venusaur: 132-156 (84 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Guess I gotta run sharp beak

[polar canyon]

Focus sash annoys me

[lost sun]

wonder if it works with alakazam speed swap

[real prairie]

very gimmicky

[cyan smelt]

Skill swap huge power onto crab

[polar canyon]

It's one turn of setup from a different mon

[polar canyon]

From what

Mega starmie into your mega crab?

[cyan smelt]

Oh right

[lost sun]

ye but then Ur left with a slow alakazam

[cyan smelt]

Frost breath onto anger point crab

[polar canyon]

That can switch into incin and intimidate fake out everyone

Or speed swap the base 30 speed to the opponent if you're ballsy

[real prairie]

had considered that lol

[cerulean nacelle]

Ok so mega aerodactyl does work very well on this team.

[polar canyon]

Oh right I forget it has a mega even

[polar canyon]

Seems ok I like that it has a bit of bulk

[cerulean nacelle]

Biggest pull is that base 150 speed.

[polar canyon]

Bulkier than mega scovillain

Do you pair it with weather?

Always wondered how it works near a chlorophyll venu since it's supposedly a zard y check

[cerulean nacelle]

I do not. Currently I'm running a team of

Mega gyarados
Mega aerodactyl
Garchomp
Rotom
Sneasler
Skeledirge

[cerulean nacelle]

Oh yeah sneasler + aero, Mega or not is a zard Y check.

[polar canyon]

Skeledirge?

What's your rank if you don't mind me asking

[timber falcon]

whats the role of skeliderge here

[polar canyon]

It's just that that's a lot of odd choices so it's either awesome or weird in the not awesome way

[cerulean nacelle]

Master rank 2. But that wasn't with this team.

Ima be honest skeledirge was meant to be the centerpiece and then it's kinda just evolved into something else lol. Dirge probably is gonna kick the bucket.

[polar canyon]

Nice that's way higher than me

[real prairie]

wondering if i bring back the flower trick + anger point strats to try get some quick wins

[polar canyon]

I like it a lot seeing people make some personal or interesting picks work

I don't even feel bad when I lose to something off meta because it's usually more fun that winning against a copy pasted team anyways

Not to be that whiner who complains about people playing the meta

Still respect using what's known to be good

[strong anchor]

I try to make it work...but its not the meta for it

[polar canyon]

And playing against meta isn't inherently unfun

[cerulean nacelle]

Atm skeledirge just does well into sneasler. It's deffo not the best pick by any margin.

I think the best niche I've seen is that he can be an annoyance for those using TR.

[polar canyon]

I personally really like mega starmie outside of the skill swap gimmicks

I just think mega starmie is good

[cerulean nacelle]

I'm also not saying I'm the best pokemon player lol. Far from it. But it's fun to fuck about and find out ya know?

[polar canyon]

Got a little trophy from an unofficial local to prove it

Starmie rules

[strong anchor]

More than 200 power isnt to underestimate

[cerulean nacelle]

Certainly isn't.

[strong anchor]

The problem is y hurts it

[polar canyon]

I'll brag about it forever

[timber falcon]

and gambit

[polar canyon]

Won my first irl thing even if it wasn't official

[strong anchor]

And theres some REALLY good grass types

[polar canyon]

Ohkod in sun if it's not the bulky set lol

[strong anchor]

Cha walls it too

[cerulean nacelle]

Uhhh... there is 1 very good grass type lmao.

[polar canyon]

It's a 2hko on sinis with ice spinner

[strong anchor]

Oh really?

[timber falcon]

is there?

[strong anchor]

Cha + venu imo are pretty good

[polar canyon]

I actually run liquidation flip turn ice spinner protect

[timber falcon]

venu is kinda situational

[strong anchor]

Also the bridge

[polar canyon]

There's rarely anything that you wanna 2hko with zen headbutt that won't be 2hkod by rain boosted resisted liquidation

[cerulean nacelle]

Venu is situational and sinistcha ain't really liking bascu or kingambit anymore so people ain't really wanting to use it.

[timber falcon]

i miss rilla

[polar canyon]

My real counter to zard y when playing starmie is my rain dance sableye

Literally the funniest pokemon of all time

Encore disable rain dance twave ultimate troll pokemon

[strong anchor]

Can whim learn rain dance?

[real prairie]

unfortuantely not

[polar canyon]

The tournament was with team sheets and I still won by using rain dance on zard y

In the finals

[real prairie]

Talonflame gets it, or Sableye

[polar canyon]

Talonflame gets rain dance?

[strong anchor]

How about meowstick?

[real prairie]

surprised no fake out

[cerulean nacelle]

The weather setting moves aren't to be underestimated. I've won stupid matches by using sunny day in TR with farigiraf for a mega camerupt lmao.

[polar canyon]

Klefki also gets rain dance if you want a bulkier option but it misses out on encore and disable

[strong anchor]

But great typing

[timber falcon]

how did you find mega camerupt?

[real prairie]

I had a lot of fun with it when i used it

[timber falcon]

ive been wanting to make a tr team

[cerulean nacelle]

It's funky but can work. Being as slow as torkoal in TR is actually a big pull.

[polar canyon]

Didn't think it had more value than the encore disable combo because it just lets me decide what the opponent can or can't use and that wins me like half of my games

Sableye is my clutch in this game

[real prairie]

but it suffers the same issues as the rest of the hard TR teams, easy to stall TR atm

[cerulean nacelle]

^

[timber falcon]

if you dont mind, what did you run it with besides farig?

[cerulean nacelle]

This is the main reason I don't like hard TR.

[polar canyon]

What really bothers starmie imo is archa peli so I ran a sylveon that can ohko archa specifically for that reason

[strong anchor]

Oh sylv can ohko it?

[polar canyon]

Hyper beam baby

[real prairie]

ive seen encore + disable with mega Gengar

[timber falcon]

hyper beam?

[polar canyon]

I didn't bring starmie into any of my 3 games for semifinals

Because my opponent had archa peli mega meganium

[strong anchor]

The hyper beam sylv always rearing its head sometimes

[timber falcon]

did u run a secondary mega in case of that MU?

[real prairie]

Id run Clefable personally

[strong anchor]

The 290 bp special

[polar canyon]

No I ran sylveon in case of that mu

Fortunately the guy ran scarf on peli which let me just use disable on it

[strong anchor]

Btw what was the interaction with hyper + protect

[polar canyon]

No recharge

Move didn't go off means no recharge same for missing

[timber falcon]

what

[strong anchor]

Neat.
So less risk

[polar canyon]

Recharge is only if the move connects

I may have crit hyper beamed the meganium and that may have won me the game if the meganium was bulky

[real prairie]

the coolest mechanic i only just learned about it no guard not only means all moves are 100% accurate but also they hit regardless of Dig, Fly, Phantom force etc

[strong anchor]

Its not 100% acc

Its they ignore acc calc

[real prairie]

yeah sorry

thats what I meant

[polar canyon]

Seen a clip of close combat from no guard machamp hitting a flying corv and comments claiming it's a bug and ranting about the buggy mess this game is

[strong anchor]

How does aerial ace and dig interact.
Havent seen that

[cerulean nacelle]

Gengar lost encore.

I did run into disable gengar though

[timber falcon]

disable gengar is good fun

[real prairie]

yeah but you partner it with sableye or something else

[cerulean nacelle]

Sableye is fun but also hard shut down by farigiraf so I don't always like him.

[polar canyon]

Maybe I should play perish trap so I can be either be more used to it or feel more justified in disliking the strategy

[cerulean nacelle]

Though gravity hypnosis is fuckin annoying.

[real prairie]

turn 1 fake out perish song, turn 2 protect, turn 3 disable encore, turn 4 switch - repeat

[polar canyon]

I still can't help but be bothered that not playing the game is a viable strategy

[strong anchor]

Is p trap possible?
The worst perpetrator are missing atm

I think it needs goth to work

[polar canyon]

Mega gengar has the move and shadow tag at the same time

[real prairie]

mega gengar was the original perish goat

goth was a placeholder

[cerulean nacelle]

Mega gengar was perish trap

[strong anchor]

Oh yeah forgot that

Now memorys flood back

[cerulean nacelle]

Also I like my team but yeah skeledirge falls behind. Rip goat.

[polar canyon]

You need even less preparation and positioning with gengar because you can have any other mon next to it

Usually incin

[cerulean nacelle]

Scarf eweb washtom is surprisingly high value however.

[polar canyon]

I fought a mega gengar that skill swapped the incin to retrigger intimidate and give incin shadow tag and it made me want to throw my controller at the screen

Especially because I lost that game to 2 misses too

[timber falcon]

lmao

[polar canyon]

Actual most infuriating game of pokemon I have ever had

Shadow tag incineroar is crazy work

And the incineroar would have been dead if hyper beam had connected earlier

[strong anchor]

I got stalled out by a pex.
And learned glimmora gets corrosion, who knew

[polar canyon]

It was like 2 weeks ago and I'm still mad when I think about that game

[real prairie]

fake out, encore, parting shot, thunder wave sableye could be naughty

[polar canyon]

It didn't keep parting shot from lza unfortunately

[real prairie]

it had it in SV didnt it?

[timber falcon]

losing to pex in doubles destroyed me

[polar canyon]

Don't think so

[real prairie]

oh no that was Grimm

[polar canyon]

I actually kinda like scovillain despite how much I trash it

When it doesnt get one shot turn 1 that is

[real prairie]

its how wolfe got #1

its a meta killer atm

[polar canyon]

Oh shit

Didn't know he did that

[timber falcon]

scovillain is currently a villain

[polar canyon]

People are gonna think I'm a poser doing it because wolfe did it

[real prairie]

yeah mega scovillian with leech seed rage powder

[polar canyon]

I mean that's fine ig

[timber falcon]

that burn is surprisingly annoying

[polar canyon]

It's not very annoying when it gets one shot and only gets one burn off

But yes

[cerulean nacelle]

I think the biggest issue of my current team is that it definitely has an appalling match into TR.

[real prairie]

i tell you what got me the other day, someone running intim + partner with burning jelousy

[real prairie]

give 1 mon taunt, problem solved

[polar canyon]

I actually tried fire spin leech seed

Dotmaxxing

I figured it would make leech seed more consistent if they can't just switch out of it

[cerulean nacelle]

Until you run into a white herb farigiraf lol

[polar canyon]

Mental

[timber falcon]

mental

[real prairie]

if you get done by a mental herb farig its GG

and you just hold your hands up

[cerulean nacelle]

Mental, my bad

damn you guys swarmed me

[real prairie]

you can't plan for everything

[polar canyon]

God I wish we could just have safety goggles already

[real prairie]

give me my fucking covert cloak

[polar canyon]

Watch them add amoonguss back next season and not goggles so we're in spore hell

[leaden fox]

Hm, still thinking of what to run in the upcoming GC

[leaden fox]

You and me both

[polar canyon]

Lowkey I think sneasler would go way down in usage if we just had cloak

[real prairie]

genuinely sleep is less of a hell atm than burn

[cerulean nacelle]

I was running a taunt aero for a while but I'd rather keep protect + tailwind on the set ngl.

[leaden fox]

honestly need that, yeah

[real prairie]

to the point im running lum berry gambit

[timber falcon]

i havent had any trouble with sleep

[polar canyon]

The only good grass types don't want to be in front of zard + venu so the only real option is to just idk ko venu as fast as possible

[cerulean nacelle]

Tbh mega scovillain is part of the reason why I'm running lum berry garchomp

[timber falcon]

whats doing all this?

[real prairie]

nah, sleep is fine now its max 2 turns

[polar canyon]

It's max 3

[real prairie]

its max 2 now

guaranteed wake up turn 3

[polar canyon]

That's max 3

Semantics ig

[timber falcon]

wasnt this always the case

[cerulean nacelle]

Tou can only be asleep for 2 turns. On the 3rd you automatically wake up.

[cerulean nacelle]

No originally you could be fast asleep for 3 turns.

[polar canyon]

I just call a turn 3 wake up a 3 turn sleep

[timber falcon]

ouch

[real prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/the-interview-james-franco-david-skylark-same-but-different-but-still-same-gif-4956158

[polar canyon]

Though an early wake up is still a 1/3 chance

[cerulean nacelle]

Yeah early wake ups are still a chance.

[polar canyon]

Wish they'd make it a 1/2 but I guess it makes it a little less rng heavy?

[leaden fox]

Yeah, surprised about the change for sleep; it's a welcome one for sure
Now if only Freeze was replaced with Frostbite 😅

[polar canyon]

Because there's one outcome you can predict rather than full on randomness now

[polar canyon]

Freeze was changed too at least

25% thaw and guaranteed on turn 3

[leaden fox]

Yeah, just believe it should be like Burned for special attackers

[real prairie]

only thing that didn't get a nerf was burn, and oh look its dominating lol

[polar canyon]

Mega froslass with frostbite will o wisp would be vile combined with the snow defense boost

[leaden fox]

Would give Ice Types something useful, considering Fire Types are immune to Burn

[real prairie]

"frost bitten"

[cerulean nacelle]

Tbh for my team I might run imprison trickroom farigiraf.

[leaden fox]

Cannot remember the status effect

[real prairie]

im saying thats what you change it to

[polar canyon]

I'm actually kinda glad we don't have frostbite snow warning froslass ngl

[strong anchor]

Freeze isnt better

I wish they got rid of freeze

[polar canyon]

Freeze isn't 85% chance at least

Assuming they'd make a move equivalent to wisp

[real prairie]

they tested frostbite with LZA but clearly decided not to keep it

sad really

[strong anchor]

I dont know why though

Wasnt it rather universally liked?

[cerulean nacelle]

Tbh being frozen at least can be gotten out of by moves like scald, matcha gotcha and fire type moves.

Sleep you just gotta roll the dice.

[polar canyon]

It's kinda nuanced because both sides have things going against it with physical attackers being threatened by intimidate and burn and special attackers being weakened by assault vest when it comes back

[real prairie]

there are a few moves that wake sleep tbf

abilities too

[leaden fox]

ah ok xD

[strong anchor]

Btw would A vulp be good atm?
Can fight in the weather wars and set up screens

[cerulean nacelle]

But those abilities are typically not what you wanna use on those kinda teams lol.

[polar canyon]

Though I guess special attackers are faring better thanks to no av to stop them and no clear amulet to protect from intimidate

[real prairie]

nah ofc

[real prairie]

if we get AV but no change in format its archaludon format to lose lol

[polar canyon]

Only guy I can think of is electabuzz running vital spirit because the other other viable ability is static

I was running electabuzz with vital spirit when darkrai was allowed

[timber falcon]

What’s vulp

[cerulean nacelle]

The first team I run into after putting on imprison trick room farigiraf was hard TR lol.

I feel blessed.

[real prairie]

tbf big sleep threat atm is Milotic, which rage powder insomnia scovillian is great for

[polar canyon]

What even goes in hard tr atm

[real prairie]

the wall

[timber falcon]

Crab, Golurk, ect

[polar canyon]

Is it actually usable

[cerulean nacelle]

Farigiraf + incin and then some hard hitting slow mons lmao.

[timber falcon]

I’ve even seen mega ampharos

[real prairie]

yes

but it makes games take a year

[cerulean nacelle]

Cuz mega ampharos genuinely sucks so much.

[real prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-aggron-aggron-mega-aggron-pokemon-mega-aggron-gif-25541149

[polar canyon]

Wall memes are funny but I never saw it as a real serious option since it's gonna just sit there and deal chip damage and get nuked by special moves

[timber falcon]

I lost to it 💔

[polar canyon]

Much like a real wall

[kindred current]

I wanna run a tr team with conkeldurr

[timber falcon]

My tr MU genuinely sucks so much. Or I just don’t know how to use the team

[polar canyon]

Hard ask without flame orb

[real prairie]

people were running it with light screen farig

light screen + filter is filthy

[polar canyon]

I know it has body press but like what does the wall do to a ghost type

[real prairie]

it also works well into sand teams with the SpDef boost

[strong anchor]

Alolan vulpix

[polar canyon]

Loses rock type

[timber falcon]

You mean nine tails?

[real prairie]

so it does

[strong anchor]

Yes

[real prairie]

whoops

[polar canyon]

Spdef boost is for rock types only

[cerulean nacelle]

I keep forgetting he loses the rock typing lol

[real prairie]

yeah me too

light screen filter it is

[polar canyon]

Less threatened by ground and fighting so it's a net win I think

[timber falcon]

Wolfey mega skarmory vid?

[real prairie]

49 mins ago

[timber falcon]

Kangaskhan when 😔

[cerulean nacelle]

I have also beaten the everliving fuck outta this man running hard TR.

He had mega zard Y on there for some reason but imprison farigiraf cleaned house.

[polar canyon]

Kang fell off

[lost sun]

he's got one with kang in

[real prairie]

lost power up punch and it was gg

[lost sun]

but his videos are focusing on new megas

[timber falcon]

Which one?

[polar canyon]

Would it even still be good with that when half the teams have sneasler

[timber falcon]

It’s not doing too bad as a secondary mega rn

[lost sun]

can't remember

[timber falcon]

Jst nowhere near its former glory

[polar canyon]

But it's only usable as a second mega because you can't really build a team around it

[timber falcon]

A core that’s being used is Aegislash, Kang, Milotic and dactyl

[polar canyon]

I wish it was slower and bulkier

But I guess the baby is really agile now or something

[cerulean nacelle]

Im really liking this as a team actually.

[timber falcon]

They even nerfed parental bond

[cerulean nacelle]

I've only done casual testing but this has been hella fun.

[polar canyon]

Cornball nicknames

[timber falcon]

Isn’t mega floette + redirect really scary here

[polar canyon]

Sorry

[cerulean nacelle]

Nah its all good I like making gimmicky nicknames.

[polar canyon]

You could maybe eq + rock slide and see if it kills?

I do think the farigiraf nickname is kinda funny

[cerulean nacelle]

If they go floette + redirection that is a bit scary. But I'd probably just lead aero + washtom and go ewebs + rock slide etc.

[cerulean nacelle]

Good or bad way lol

[polar canyon]

Electroweb on rotom is underrated

[timber falcon]

True chip it away

[polar canyon]

Depends on who you ask

[cerulean nacelle]

Scarf eweb washtom + sneasler is a highly underrated pair for beating aero leads.

[polar canyon]

I like pump webs volt switch status move on rotom personally

Trick if scarf protect/wisp otherwise depending on team comp

[cerulean nacelle]

I have been thinking about changing tbolt to trick to cripple something like a milotic.

[polar canyon]

I don't think it really needs thunderbolt when webs do chip and volt switch is decent damage that can do what it wants to do

Finish off/bring mons to ko range and ohko peli

[cerulean nacelle]

Yeah that's fair. I really like scarf webs tom. It + sneasler lead does really well into like arch peli surprisingly enough.

[polar canyon]

Not very surprising

[timber falcon]

Why do people run Mega aerodactyl as a secondary recently?

[real prairie]

Might try this: https://pokepast.es/196d3895427fa474

[polar canyon]

Zard y, wingbeat on sash sneasler/venu

[real prairie]

to have the sash elsewhere and still outspeed other aero

[cerulean nacelle]

It's the quickest mega and does hella damage. Plus the same utility that sash aero can do, mega aero can also do. That was my reasoning. It also gave me a secondary mega just in case I don't wanna use mega gyarados.

[polar canyon]

Are you asking why aero at all or why mega on it

[timber falcon]

Why mega

[polar canyon]

I guess if sash is taken by another mon why not

And chances are a sneasler has the sash

[timber falcon]

So speed seems to be the deciding factor?

[cerulean nacelle]

It's also the most real pokemon in zard Y + venu.

Aero + sneasler whether mega or not does beat that match up

[real prairie]

its stronger and faster, and some Zard Y have been training to live a normal Aero rock slide

[timber falcon]

I’m kinda happy to see aerodactyl being so relevant

[real prairie]

i never knew until champions it was so fast

[polar canyon]

I don't think I'd call speed the decider for aero since what it wants that extra speed for is mostly not speed tying gengar and other aero

But I haven't played aerodactyl yet so I can't tell

[timber falcon]

I only found out when attempting a fire red nuzlocke

[cerulean nacelle]

Tough claws dual wingbeat also OHKOs sneasler, probably OHKOs non mega venusaurs and is just a more powerful secondary stab.

I do think I'll probably change tbolt for trick. Good shout @polar canyon

[real prairie]

tough claws boosts wingbeat?

[timber falcon]

It is contact

[cerulean nacelle]

Dual wingbeat gets tough claws boosted from mega aero.

[real prairie]

oh wow, its all contact moves

thats cool

[polar canyon]

An old problem with tough claws was that it doesn't boost anything mega aerodactyl wants to use

[cerulean nacelle]

Yeah why do you think zard X still does hella damage. Tough claws boosted dragon claw and flare blitz really are all it needs tbh.

[polar canyon]

Now it gets wingbeat and the problem is partly solved

[timber falcon]

So a dragon dance Zard X must hit pretty hard

[polar canyon]

I forgot zard x had tough claws because no one uses zard x

[real prairie]

yes it does, OHKOs gambit with flame charge

[timber falcon]

Didn’t it get like second in an big tournament recently

[polar canyon]

Don't know

[real prairie]

max HP and def investment gambit

[cerulean nacelle]

Tough claws plus zard X bulk typically let's you run max HP max speed to let you set up a ddance. Nothing really can OHKO you I believe.

[polar canyon]

In sun?

[real prairie]

no

[polar canyon]

No way

[cerulean nacelle]

Tbh the next team I was looking into was gonna be veil A9 with zard X lol.

[polar canyon]

Close combat sometimes doesn't ko it with chople berry

120 base power move still x2 super effective

Tough claws flame charge does?

[cerulean nacelle]

Wait people are running flame charge zard X?

[polar canyon]

32+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flame Charge vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 108-126 (52.1 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[real prairie]

you are right, how did i die there lol

[polar canyon]

Nope

[real prairie]

ive been killed by one

maybe it was +2

[polar canyon]

You're running max def gambit?

[real prairie]

no

[timber falcon]

From a cybertron vid

[polar canyon]

Huh interesting

[cerulean nacelle]

Was it a crit and u don't remember?

[real prairie]

also possible

i tend to click my turn and then get distracted by something else

[timber falcon]

It also completely walls zard Y

Doesn’t need sun

[polar canyon]

32+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flame Charge vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Kingambit on a critical hit: 162-188 (78.2 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[real prairie]

i clicked parting shot earlier and came back and my incin was still there after TR, was confused AF

[polar canyon]

Maybe it was flare blitz and you misread it?

[real prairie]

nah was absolutely flame charge

also its still 252 on damage calc

[polar canyon]

Worlds most frail kingambit

I'm using another calc

[real prairie]

oh, do share

[polar canyon]

Nerd of now

https://nerd-of-now.github.io/NCP-VGC-Damage-Calculator/

[timber falcon]

Much thanks

[polar canyon]

Does the showdown calc have sample sets yet

I like this one because it has only vgc sets and set to doubles by default for spread moves

[cerulean nacelle]

Nope. Mega froslass and farigiraf don't have champions sample sets.

[real prairie]

must have been a crit

[cerulean nacelle]

I have checked a plethora of times.

[cerulean nacelle]

That all I could think it is unfortunately.

[polar canyon]

Crit doesn't do it

[cerulean nacelle]

Also I think ironically the biggest issue into my new team is gonna be mega scovillain lol.

[polar canyon]

Kyogre at home

[timber falcon]

Does Aegislash stats change when it swaps?

[cerulean nacelle]

Curse that fuckin habanero pepper.

[polar canyon]

Yes

Drastically

[timber falcon]

Oh

[polar canyon]

Offenses and defenses switch around

[timber falcon]

That explains a few interactions

[cerulean nacelle]

Attack and defense switch

[timber falcon]

So 140 attack???

[polar canyon]

Yep and special attack

[cerulean nacelle]

140 attack and special attack.

Then in shield form, 140 defense and special defense.

[polar canyon]

That's why you don't wanna leave it sitting around with 50 defenses either

[timber falcon]

Ah so attack mode also drastically lowers my bulk

[polar canyon]

Does protect trigger stance change?

[timber falcon]

I’ve been using this wrong then

[cerulean nacelle]

That's why kings shield is mandatory on most sets if not all now thanks to the nerfs.

[gentle crag]

diobrando8256 has given 1 Gen Rep to campfire__

[real prairie]

+1 32 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flame Charge vs. 32 HP / 10 Def Kingambit on a critical hit: 204-242 (98.5 - 116.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Crit and unlucky

[cerulean nacelle]

This is fair if it was +1 from d dance.

Still... flame charge is new...

[polar canyon]

I have heard of people also running protect on it because kings shield doesn't protect from status

I thought perfect also triggered stance change but I guess not

[cerulean nacelle]

Yeah it's only kings shield.

[timber falcon]

Is it worth investing attack stats into Aegislash

[cerulean nacelle]

Also I was gonna say flame charge zard is really weird but tbh it's only other contact fire moves are flare blitz and fire punch.

If you don't wanna nuke yourself with flare blitz ig you run flame charge lol.

Because fire punch is pretty mid.

[polar canyon]

Its base stats that change not the actual final stats

[timber falcon]

The move not the manga

[polar canyon]

Think like a mega

[spiral rock]

can i share a team and ask if anyone sees any major weaknesses ?

[cerulean nacelle]

The move lol

[polar canyon]

Sure

[cerulean nacelle]

Ofc

[timber falcon]

Pretty standard stuff no

[spiral rock]

for floette im thinking sinistcha takes most of the hits and using milotic to counter incin users

ofc sini to also reverse trickroom uses

basically wanna keep speed control and hit hard

[cerulean nacelle]

You might want rock slide on chomp? Otherwise chomp can't actually deal with zard Y well. Stomping tantrum I only really see on scarf sets.

[polar canyon]

Sneasler set is interesting is that the standard?

[spiral rock]

bet

[polar canyon]

I always just assume all sneaslers are max speed and attack jolly

[cerulean nacelle]

Standard typically is dual stabs fake out protect I believe.

With max max stats

[polar canyon]

I meant the stats

[spiral rock]

not really when i put thief and close combat on it its after ther white herb being used and i find a useful item user

[timber falcon]

That’s a pretty slow sneasler

What about mirror ?

[spiral rock]

that is true i havent thought about speed tie

[cerulean nacelle]

That's a very niche usage. It just also means an unburden sneasler is gonna lose to other faster mons in tailwind.

[polar canyon]

How useful is thief generally besides being a fun gimmick? Theres not that many items to steal

[spiral rock]

mmm'

[timber falcon]

Can you steal mega stones

[polar canyon]

Taking incineroars sitrus berry instead of close combat

[spiral rock]

i belive so yes

[polar canyon]

A pokemon with a mega stone can't lose the item in any way

[cerulean nacelle]

For example, anything in tailwind that beats past 140 speed, which is a lot, zard Y as a quick example does, would outspeed this sneasler in tailwind even if the sneasker has unburden.

[timber falcon]

No mega stone on a mega pokemon

[polar canyon]

You can't make a pokemon lose a mega stone

[cerulean nacelle]

Mega stones can't be knocked off, tricked or stolen

[spiral rock]

ye unless they swap maybe?>

[timber falcon]

You can steal a gengarite that’s on an incin tho

[spiral rock]

ok nvm

[timber falcon]

At least that’s what I’m seeing?

[spiral rock]

so max speed jolly sneasler and change thief to what?

[cerulean nacelle]

Bro if I run into an incineroar that has a gengarite I better be winning that fucking match.

[polar canyon]

I didn't know about that interaction because like who would do that

[cerulean nacelle]

Protect imo. But throat chop isn't awful.

[lavish frost]

are you running thief on sneasler even knowing that you lose the unburden speed boost if sneasler gets an item through thief?

[spiral rock]

why would u say throat chop?

[timber falcon]

Theif gengar?

[polar canyon]

I've seen u-turn

[spiral rock]

ye i just realized

[spiral rock]

YES WAIT UR IT

[timber falcon]

I think that’s a better alternative

Why did you decide to run thief in the first place btw? Like what was the goal

[cerulean nacelle]

I've seen throat chop only a couple times but it lets sneasler have a better move into froslass, sinistcha, let's you shut off hyper voice spammers. It's niche but it's there.

[spiral rock]

uturn on sneasler into sini to either reverse trick room or take a psychic hit?

[spiral rock]

sitrus berries tbh

[timber falcon]

How greedy

[spiral rock]

ik and it worked so perfectly before

[timber falcon]

I think it’s funny but doubt whether it’s worth it

[cerulean nacelle]

I'd say test and see what's right. But unburden is a 1 time thing and stealing another item will remove unburden I believe.

[timber falcon]

Throat chop if you’re afraid of ghosts

But really afraid

[spiral rock]

ok we're going throat chop

[cerulean nacelle]

I personally just like protect. Because sneasler is always a threat typically, protect on sneasler can let you put yourself into better positions.

And also not be afraid of other fake outs.

[timber falcon]

Don’t just decide immediately

Tests are important

[spiral rock]

i just realized i had no ghost coverage thats why

[timber falcon]

Most run without ghost coverage. That’s the job for other 5 mons

[cerulean nacelle]

Testing is very very important.

[dark sorrel]

I run throat chop on my sneasler, situational but useful I'd say

[spiral rock]

mm ic

[polar canyon]

I think protect is still better

[spiral rock]

ye protect

what do we think about sinishould i replace life dew with strength sap?

[polar canyon]

That's on you

Both good different purposes

[timber falcon]

Strength sap I see more on bulky offensive teams

[spiral rock]

was planning to make floette bulky after testing with giga drain

[cerulean nacelle]

Life dew can help support some mons that are bulkier like floette (to an extent) etc. Protect + life dew is often a rather annoying combination.

[timber falcon]

Milotic and sinistcha should be devoting themselves to floette in this archetype right?

[polar canyon]

Did you guys know they gave h goodra life dew

[cerulean nacelle]

Amount of times I've won a match on a froslass team because I've protected the froslass, used life dew and then been out of kingambit sucker punch range is

5 times... which is weird that it happened that many times.

[spiral rock]

yes

[cerulean nacelle]

I thought hoodra always had it

[polar canyon]

I don't think it did

[cerulean nacelle]

Nah we running offensive milotic round here /jk

[spiral rock]

because competitive milotic with left overs and dew would piss off alot of phys attack teams ive played against

especially incin we need to kill incin first in my book

[timber falcon]

Someone out there saw coil on milotic and is now running physically offensive

[cerulean nacelle]

Probably.

Everyone saw coil milotic win and then a bunch of sheeple copied the set lol.

[polar canyon]

Coil on milotic is just a defense and accuracy move

[timber falcon]

I’ll never forgive hypnosis Milotic

[cerulean nacelle]

I did lose to a gravity meowstic + hypnosis milotic. That team fuckin sucked.

[timber falcon]

Same but sabeleye with encore

[spiral rock]

one more game to master ball wish me luck

[polar canyon]

Sableye the goat

[timber falcon]

Good luck

[spiral rock]

fuh sableye

[polar canyon]

You got this

[timber falcon]

It’s like a cockroach

[spiral rock]

i hate him he disables encore and everything

[polar canyon]

If you don't you'll get it later

[cerulean nacelle]

You got this champ

[spiral rock]

actually a roach

[polar canyon]

I love him he disables encore and everything

[timber falcon]

You’re providing reasons to hate him

[polar canyon]

And rain dances on your mega evolving zard y

[spiral rock]

lol bane of my existence

[cerulean nacelle]

I just don't like how he's useless in front of a fucking giraffe

[polar canyon]

Not useless it can rain dance in front of the torkoal and dip

[timber falcon]

Now you can just encore and disable your partner pokemon

For even more fun

[cerulean nacelle]

There is that.

[polar canyon]

Actually does armor tail block the gimmick where you use encore on a partner that was going to use a priority move

[timber falcon]

It doesn’t block ur own mons does it?

[cerulean nacelle]

Not if it's your own mon.

Stops your opponents priority

[polar canyon]

Yeah but does the next move from that mon start counting as priority

Or does it just trick the game into going first

[cerulean nacelle]

If you're going against a farigiraf. Then yeah I think it'd block it.

If you aren't, then it shouldn't.

I know I've seen something where a whimsicott encored a taunt user, the user used taunt on incin and despite it not being prankster itself it still counted as a prankster move because the opponent had used priority before.

Idk man prankster encore is fuckin funky.

[spiral rock]

chat

we hit masterball

i forgot meganium has weather ball but we somehow swept in the end

[cerulean nacelle]

Ayyyyy congrats man! Proud of ya.

I'm hoping this team I've made will do well in some casual matches, then ima take it to ranked.

[next dust]

Uh....why? Couldn't Gengar protect?

[chrome knot]

there was nothing to protect it from

[spiral rock]

lol

[chrome knot]

nothing happened lol

[next dust]

Sure. But why did it fail

[spiral rock]

when both opponents mons protect or swap

theres no threat so it ultimately fails

[next dust]

Ah

[spiral rock]

thought it gives u a chance to protect again

[next dust]

Now I understand. Ty

[spiral rock]

*though

lol can i battle a real person here to test out a team

[copper geyser]

could anyone tell me how much speed boost does choice scarf give in champions?
everywhere I check it says 50%, but math isn't mathing for me and mons that shouldn't outspeed with scarf, do just that

[cerulean nacelle]

Show ur set and stats. Then tell me which mons are outspeeding you

[copper geyser]

mostly Basculegions outspeeding my mega delphox
I have max speed and timid nature on delphox, so I'm pretty sure even scarfed basc shouldn't outspeed (not counting swift swim obviously)

[dark sorrel]

it definitely does

[cerulean nacelle]

Delphox should outspeed scarf non swift swim basc

Was basculegion under tailwind?

[copper geyser]

nope, no modifiers outside of the scarf

no priority moves etc

[dark sorrel]

If it's max speed, jolly, like mine with scarf, it definitely outspeeds delphox. Mine does every time.

[cerulean nacelle]

Then I honestly dk. Either there was a modifier about or you aren't max speed timid.

[cerulean nacelle]

No but this is scarfed delphox

[dark sorrel]

it's mega

[copper geyser]

mega delphox vs scarfed basc

[cerulean nacelle]

Oh then yeah. Basc outspeeds with scarf

Sorry I read that wrong

[dark sorrel]

thank god you can't scarf megas

[copper geyser]

but how...
78 + 50% speed vs 134 speed

it doesn't add up... which part am I not getting?

[cerulean nacelle]

That's the speed stat no accounting level or evs

[copper geyser]

but it should be the same predicament if both are max speed with +speed nature no?

[dark sorrel]

it's like 204 for mega Delphox with max speed + timid, vs about 214 for scarfed Basc

[cerulean nacelle]

^

Max speed jolly basc has a speed of 143

[copper geyser]

I really don't get the math behind stats then...

[cerulean nacelle]

143 x 1.5 is 214.

[copper geyser]

thanks for help anyway

[cerulean nacelle]

Basically the 134 of mega delphox and the 78 of basculegion are just the base stats.

No levels or EVs put into them.

At level 50 (which all champion mons are at), a max speed EVs timid delphox ends up at 204 speed.

A jolly level 50 basculegion ends up at 134 speed.

That 134 speed, the final speed, is what's calculated for the choice scarf, not it's base speed. So 134 x 1.5 = 214.

Faster than mega delphox.

[foggy lodge]

the 1.5 just makes the number very big

You only outspeed adamant scarf Basc with Delphox

[copper geyser]

I get that, I just don't understand how basc gets enough speed to outspeed when both have the same investment

that part doesn't add up for me

but that's just how these stats area calculated ig

[chrome knot]

hi im a cool scarf

[copper geyser]

at least I don't have to worry about IVs anymore

[cerulean nacelle]

That's because of the massive 1.5 multiplier of scarf at the end.

Mega Delphox is faster than basculegion with base stats. 134 vs 78 like you said. That 1.5 multiplier is calculated at the end. So with all the investment + jolly nature, that allows basc to reach a speed where then choice scarf multiplies it enough to be faster than delphox.

[leaden fox]

Hm; trying to decide if these two Megas work for my current team 🤔
Meganium & Skarmory

[cerulean nacelle]

Skarmory sucks so hard. Meganium is interesting but hard to work at times.

[copper geyser]

I'm no expert, but the first thing I see about these two is that they're both weak to fire type

[foggy lodge]

Meganium is cook but idk about Skarmory I think its really bad lol

incin doesn't really let it play

[leaden fox]

Yeah, just deciding on them overall; Meganium works brilliantly in my team, though hard to say if Skarmory does yet

Even though it has picked up some wins

[cerulean nacelle]

What IS the team. We have no context lol

[leaden fox]

This team

[cerulean nacelle]

Quick claw archaludon hurts my soul...

[leaden fox]

I can imagine 😅

[cerulean nacelle]

I would say that mega skarmory probably needs to be a centerpiece, not an additional mega on a rain team.

Dnite is probably better here.

[leaden fox]

Yeah, just don't want to default to Mega Dragonite 😅

[cerulean nacelle]

If it works it works 💪

I hate mega dnite personally. I hate when pokemon go from physical to special and vice versa

But it's a good rain mon.

[leaden fox]

Hm... I wonder if Mega Drampa could work 🤔
Adding it as a deterent to TR

Even Mega Scizor "could" work, but deciding which ones of the Mega list to pick up