did gigantamax snorlax have any popularity during the life span of sword and shield? i just only now found out what its g-max move does and it sounds like it would be kind of crazy useful in the context of its current trick room belly drum team setups
#competitive_discussion
rare pumice
mighty stump
did gigantamax snorlax have any popularity during the life span of sword and shi...
It only occurs 50% of the time
It had some relevance but nothing meta breaking cuz of how inconsistent it was
real prairie
It had some relevance but nothing meta breaking cuz of how inconsistent it was
funny how 50% can be so different depending on what the move is, 50% dire claw proc = great, 50% Gmax Snorlax = bad
modern cliff
can i pm you something?
real prairie
can i pm you something?
I also don't play singles, so I won't be much help
modern cliff
I also don't play singles, so I won't be much help
you see what i said?
real prairie
@modern cliff try #bdsp_discussion
cyan smelt
is the glimmora HO team the one with dozo and weezing gigas
cyan smelt
honestly even randbats seems too hard for me at the present
next stump
kalos do you save your VGC replays?
cyan smelt
yes
next stump
do you watch them back
chrome knot
do you watch them back
ive backpedaled into clicking after you eruption i needa be shot n killed
stone trellis
Is Rilla the Son?
real prairie
https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/cloudflare-down-twitter-not-working-outage-b2867367.html
Seems depending on your location, PKMN Showdown is down too
anyone have top 12 from the last round of reg F?
stone trellis
You mean the last tournament?
real prairie
last round of reg F in general, but last tournament will do
real prairie
Sorry, i meant useage stats on mons
stone trellis
Oh.
real prairie
my bad
stone trellis
That top 12.
I'm hopping on the Orlando 2024 stream to see the usage rates for day 1 and day 2.
(Day 1)
- Flutter Mane (45.6%)
- Incineroar (45.2%)
- Rapid Strike Shifu (35.5%)
- Raging Bolt (35.4%)
- Wellspring (34.1%)
- Lando (33.4%)
- Rilla (29.9%)
- Tornadus (24.8%)
- Chien-Pao (22.0%)
- Amoonguss (21.0%)
- Hearthflame (18.4%)
- Single Strike Shifu (17.2%)
@real prairie
real prairie
thanks bud
stone trellis
You're welcome.
It's funny to see the so-called king of Reg F only at #4, but 35% usage is still cracked.
real prairie
first run of Reg F, Flutter was the true GOAT
stone trellis
I'm guessing that these two are probably still really close.
stone trellis
I was working on a team and it feels like something doesn't stick.
I want to make a sun team, but it's kinda shit.
real prairie
what you got cooked already?
next stump
holy crap ogerpon has like 60% usage
stone trellis
what you got cooked already?
Nah, I can't use Showdown.
I just have a hunch for when a team is shit.
real prairie
Nah, I can't use Showdown.
yeah same boat as me haha
real prairie
holy crap ogerpon has like 60% usage
Those wellspring figures fill me with fear
stone trellis
Why, because of the crits?
real prairie
Why, because of the crits?
because i always run rain teams and water absorb is a bitch
stone trellis
Ah.
I should honestly try running sun, but that would force me to use an unreasonable amount of special attackers I don't like.
And that strikes two of the three problems I can have with any team.
Torkoal and Whimsicott/Tornadus are obvious.
real prairie
lost my first ever regional match Reg G to a Arubega alt with Wellspring over Hearth
stone trellis
I can't recall what my first Reg G loss was.
I know for a fact that I ran the San Antonio team though.
And I know that I went 11-2 all the way to Ultra Ball.
It used to be my best run until this November where I went 12-2 from Great Ball 5 all the way up to #50-something in Master Ball.
real prairie
ive only ever done 1 regional, so was easy to remember lol
stone trellis
I haven't played in a single regional since I'm from Greece and all that.
real prairie
theres no CP for ingame ladder is there
stone trellis
Doubt it.
Hey Jack, wanna teach me the secret rain sauce?
If I'm gonna build sun, I think I need to understand how weather as a whole works first.
real prairie
What do you wanna know?
stone trellis
I don't know, I just want to see what's good in these teams.
real prairie
Fair, well not sure where to start but if you have any Q, im happy to help.
stone trellis
Is Tornshifu still a thing after the giraffe was released?
real prairie
not as prominent, but it still does stupid damage, especially the balance teams with mystic water Urshifu
stone trellis
Pelipper or Politoed?
stone trellis
not as prominent, but it still does stupid damage, especially the balance teams ...
How do you deal with Bolt then? Sash was the one way to counter Tclap other than wasting a lot of points on bulk.
real prairie
they would either be bulky enough or would have a defensive tera
grass was a good way to stop rage powder rocky helmet which was popular
next stump
I played against someone high up on the bo3 ladder yesterday that had choice band lando to deal with bolt on their torn team
stone trellis
Found the tech, you just waste points on bulk.
stone trellis
I played against someone high up on the bo3 ladder yesterday that had choice ban...
Lando-T?
next stump
yeah
stone trellis
Fire.
What do you do for Chien-Pao though?
Who do I even need to outspeed?
I found a great set, nevermind.
real prairie
Lando-T?
Seems to be making a resurgence
https://pokepast.es/d791436d07f84110
These sort of teams were VERY common
real prairie
he won Perth
stone trellis
Yep, take him to hell.
real prairie
Wolfe won Orlando with this: https://pokepast.es/b176b5440469dd31
this won Liverpool w/o Torn: https://pokepast.es/a182f401e7ae1395
stone trellis
Urshifu @ Mystic Water
Ability: Unseen Fist
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 108 HP / 124 Atk / 4 Def / 100 SpD / 172 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- Aqua Jet
- Detect
Tera Water SS kills Sash Flutter in sun 90.6% of the time (the highest I could get it without wasting too many points on Attack), it lives 100 Modest Bolt Tclap and it also reaches 139 Speed.
Did I miss anything?
stone trellis
No, it's regular Bolt.
It's Shifu, he doesn't live sun Bolt Tclap in any universe where he wants to be a Water type.
stone trellis
Now I have to write down my sets because Showdown's not working anymore.
How would Lando-T even help Shifu?
Oh yeah, CB kills Amoonguss and Rilla.
real prairie
still prefer lando I personally
Wolfe team really was the one to beat: https://pokepast.es/94e3262b010dde0b
Wolfe not having Follow me was mad tech for the time
real prairie
best place pelliper finished was 5th
best place Politoed finished was 81, with Ludicolo lol
stone trellis
Was that you?
real prairie
nah I only did 1 regional, Reg G
stone trellis
Oh yeah.
Sash Pelipper seems good here, I can't lie.
The only problem is the giraffe.
real prairie
mhh
not sure how i'm going to fit Ludicolo in, wondering if I try to force it into the Balance teams w/o swift swim
chrome knot
Wolfe not having Follow me was mad tech for the time
it was kinda standard on pon
hearthflame during reg f cycled between sd, focus energy & follow me
stone trellis
not sure how i'm going to fit Ludicolo in, wondering if I try to force it into t...
What's the other ability?
molten oasis
Is Rilla the Son?
Yes
stone trellis
I was thinking of making a Rilla set that has High Horsepower to deal with Bolt, but the only moves I could replace are U-turn and Grassy Glide.
Do I do that or do I just use Landorus?
tiny karmaBOT
Sableye version 4.29.0
real prairie
What's the other ability?
as above
real prairie
rain dish is a bit meh with Ludicolo stats
if it were bulkier it'd be okay
I tried a rain dish leech seed leftovers team at one stage but the power curve is too high to warrant it
Showdown is finally back!
molten oasis
I was thinking of making a Rilla set that has High Horsepower to deal with Bolt,...
You replace u-turn
dense latch
Do I do that or do I just use Landorus?
just use landorus
if you can’t then you do replace u turn
but i think it’s an essential move in this regulation
stone trellis
I'm using Landorus after all.
So far I have Shifu, Rilla, Hearthflame, Pelipper (trust me it'll work), Lando and Flutter Mane.
shadow wind
Hey so since you’re running Landorus what mons does it hate
Like if I switch in a Mon to your Landorus which ones make you not want to keep your Landorus in
stone trellis
Chien-Pao, Urshifu...
Who else?
Probably opposing Landorus too if I'm Tera Poison.
Did I miss anyone?
@shadow wind Why do you ask?
real prairie
Did I miss anyone?
its not super keen on Amoongus but that doesn't threaten it
shadow wind
Hey good stuff man
shadow wind
<@638505796476469249> Why do you ask?
Cause I’m using Kommo and guy hates Lando
real prairie
Cause I’m using Kommo and guy hates Lando
Waterpon feels like a good partner in that regard I suppose but then you had issues with something else that made you go to firepon
stone trellis
Cause I’m using Kommo and guy hates Lando
In what world?
Do you use the Throat Spray Clangorous Soul variant?
shadow wind
Waterpon feels like a good partner in that regard I suppose but then you had iss...
It’s opposing Amoonguss
Kommo can’t hit them well
Although Tera fire flamethrower no invest does like half
rare pumice
i just remembered all the play primarina was seeing earlier this year, and it still confuses me and makes me happy
molten oasis
Fire with flamethrower I believe
stone trellis
Ah, I understand it now.
There is always a solution to an EP weakness.
Slap on the Assault Vest.
molten oasis
It’s IDBP
he can’t do that and even then lando does like 90% to an av bolt, it’ll probably still kill or do roughly that much to a Tera fire av kommo-o
stone trellis
The magic numbers are 199 or 206 HP and 114 or 110 SpD for Assault Vest users that want to survive 116 Modest Lorb EP.
So with Kommo-o hitting a maximum of what, 182?
The magic number for it living should be 182 and 125.
And 125 is easy to get, since its base Sp. Def is 105 or something in that ballpark.
116+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tera Fire Kommo-o: 151-182 (82.9 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Turns out, it's 180 and 126.
molten oasis
Still he’s IDBP so, he can’t really do that
stone trellis
There is always the option of forgoing the lame Iron Defense in exchange for the chad Clangorous Soul.
dense latch
still cant be used with AV
molten oasis
Clangorous soul sets kinda suck
stone trellis
Clangorous Soul and AV have the exact same result on your Special Defense.
molten oasis
There’s a reason people don’t use it
dense latch
even without clang kinda sucks in reg f
molten oasis
Scales in theory should do like, really good damage right?
shadow wind
😟
shadow wind
Scales in theory should do like, really good damage right?
In theory
molten oasis
But +2 scales doesn’t ohko anything
dense latch
not to mention it still gets outsped by a few threats even after a +1 in speed
shadow wind
Yeah
shadow wind
Sure is
molten oasis
If kommo-o even had 110 special attack I could see scales sets being better but 100 is not enough
shadow wind
But since I’m terrible at utilizing tera I need to make it super obvious to myself who wants to tera when
Like Ttar
stone trellis
If kommo-o even had 110 special attack I could see scales sets being better but ...
That would probably increase its viability by a substantial amount.
tiny karmaBOT
Sableye version 4.29.0
molten oasis
That would probably increase its viability by a substantial amount.
Cuz it would actually hit hard lmao
Can maybe run recovery instead of being forced into throat spray for damage
stone trellis
Yeah, 178 is way better than 167.
shadow wind
I saw a clang soul drain punch iron head set once
real prairie
Ice punch? @shadow wind
stone trellis
I saw a clang soul drain punch iron head set once
shadow wind
After a single intimidate I doubt it kills
shadow wind
And not to mention I would just have to eat a 70% EP before killing it
On my bulky set up mon
real prairie
And not to mention I would just have to eat a 70% EP before killing it
I meant for the shroom
stone trellis
Yeah, specifically the one that actually OHKOs the fucker pre-Tera.
shadow wind
I meant for the shroom
Dude ice punch would do like 30%
shadow wind
Flamethrower tbh
I think Tera fire flamethrower with overcoat
molten oasis
Yeah seems fine for amoonguss
dense latch
how much is tera fire flamethrower doing to it
shadow wind
Cause then the mushroom can’t do that much
molten oasis
You suck into flutter anyway
shadow wind
how much is tera fire flamethrower doing to it
50
molten oasis
It’s amoonguss tbf
shadow wind
Nah 50 is more than I expected
stone trellis
36 Bold or 76 Calm?
shadow wind
I’d expect 50 it’s still super effective
Super effective stab 🥀
molten oasis
lol
shadow wind
36 Bold or 76 Calm?
For what stat?
stone trellis
Special Defense.
Most people run either 36 EVs with a neutral nature or 76 with a positive one.
shadow wind
I run 68 with bold
stone trellis
Ah, the renegade EV spread.
shadow wind
My EV spreads are almost always home cooked though so lots of grains of salt
stone trellis
Could've asked me for help with those.
molten oasis
I can also help
shadow wind
I mean they do what I need them to do
Jump point for defense and most hp I can have for lefties to be optimal
stone trellis
Who cares about the jump points, what do you live?
shadow wind
Twin the jump point is my damage
molten oasis
Moonblast! Oh wait it’s 4x
real prairie
Does body press at +4 not do decent damage into shroom and Lando anyway?
Always did for me with Arch
molten oasis
Does body press at +4 not do decent damage into shroom and Lando anyway?
You die first usually
shadow wind
Does body press at +4 not do decent damage into shroom and Lando anyway?
Does about 50 I think
real prairie
You die first usually
Fair
shadow wind
Yeah the problem is earth power
molten oasis
Not to amoonguss but lando shouldn’t struggle with a 2hko
shadow wind
EP literally does like 78%
stone trellis
My shifu takes ep <:Wolfe_Hello:1296208163414212618>
Neutral, yeah.
shadow wind
So is Kommo
shadow wind
Probably wanna live like, uhm, hm
Also it gets complicated cause lefties gives you back loads
molten oasis
Neutral, yeah.
Pretty sure without investment shifu will just die
shadow wind
So literally just general bulk at this point
molten oasis
I run bulky scarf ursh
shadow wind
Utah 🥀
molten oasis
I’m getting real sick of that auto correct
stone trellis
Pretty sure without investment shifu will just die
Yep.
shadow wind
Dude the new auto correct is so dog
molten oasis
stone trellis
If you can live super effective 100 Modest Bolt Tclap without sun, you can probably live Lorb Lando EP.
molten oasis
So literally just general bulk at this point
I assume you take bleakwind fine, do you take icicle crash from pao naturally?
shadow wind
He does NOT take bleakwind fine but icicle crash yeah does about 80 😭
molten oasis
He does NOT take bleakwind fine but icicle crash yeah does about 80 😭
I meant you live lmao
shadow wind
Oh yeah
molten oasis
He does NOT take bleakwind fine but icicle crash yeah does about 80 😭
Really? Without the boost?
shadow wind
But 1 idef and I’m off to the races
tiny karmaBOT
Sableye version 4.29.0
real prairie
Why does it feel like tera water magmar might be the answer 🤣
molten oasis
Huh 125 defense, ok
real prairie
Redirection, answer into Shroom, tank hits
shadow wind
75 hp 🥀🥀🥀
molten oasis
Why does it feel like tera water magmar might be the answer 🤣
But ogerpon exists
real prairie
But ogerpon exists
That can't have a defensive tera
stone trellis
But does it have Eviolite?
real prairie
You either go water or fire
molten oasis
Which do work as defensive and offensive Tera’s
stone trellis
Or a permanent Spore immunity regardless of Tera?
real prairie
Both change their defensive typing a lot
Into these specific MU not in general
molten oasis
You need to remove lando not tank it
real prairie
In general Oger >>>
real prairie
You need to remove lando not tank it
Tera water tera blast
Also it's 2 hit with body press it doesn't matter
tiny karmaBOT
Sableye version 4.29.0
shadow wind
2 hit after +4
molten oasis
It’s, okay, I guess
shadow wind
Which means 4 turns of tanking Lando hits if they just let me do my thing
real prairie
Closed team sheets flame body tera water would be very funny to deal with urshifu
molten oasis
Tera water tera blast
Which is a 2hko, most lando can’t take a single cudgel from waterpon
It’s Tera also lets it take, I think 3 ep’s cuz of the boost
Idk magmar has to Tera to sit in front of lando
Ogerpon somewhat doesn’t
and I’d assume you’d want your Tera for kommo-o
real prairie
It just felt like a really good partner for this specific build and MU
molten oasis
Testing it doesn’t hurt
shadow wind
I never tera Kommo
real prairie
I never tera Kommo
Maybe just tera water kommo then?
shadow wind
But if it’s Lando Flutter mane 😔
shadow wind
Maybe just tera water kommo then?
I feel like I need the fairy resist
Cause specs Flutter does like 80 if I don’t resist
molten oasis
I think you die to moonblast earth power with Tera water honestly
shadow wind
I mean I die with Tera fire as well but the point was made
real prairie
Cause specs Flutter does like 80 if I don’t resist
Protect and bonk it with firepon
molten oasis
That works
real prairie
I think you die to moonblast earth power with Tera water honestly
Valid
But if they are doubling komoo to get rid of it, you could get a decent trade out of it
molten oasis
shadow wind
The only problem with Ogerpon as a Lando answer is sludge bomb
real prairie
The only problem with Ogerpon as a Lando answer is sludge bomb
But with firepon and tera water komoo you have lots of ways to avoid getting wrecked
Tera fire to not get sludge bombed
shadow wind
I don’t think Ogerpon ever OHKOs if Incin exists though
Not the fire one anyway
Man I just hate this Landorus guy
If I went tera fly bulletproof on Kommo he couldn’t touch me
But definitely just a bad idea
real prairie
Man I just hate this Landorus guy
Humour me, does tera water Magmar kill?
With tera blast
dense latch
36 SpA Tera-Water Magmar Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 114-134 (69.5 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Tera-Water Magmar Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 152-180 (92.6 - 109.7%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO
dense latch
i doubt many ppl are using max hp lando
shadow wind
Traumatizing Lando sets
dense latch
at most 116 hp and like 132 spatk
shadow wind
Probably not right now
real prairie
yeah, thats just really sad. Lando is a fake mon. Squishy when you use it, bulky when everyone else does
shadow wind
But I remember people were running it slower than timid Incin for knocking off AVs
Those were bad days for the Groudonation
real prairie
Probably not right now
nah it was atrocious during regulation G Tailroom
dense latch
waterpon does 75% and up depending on investment even after intimidate
shadow wind
I think with my set Tera cudgel killed at -1
real prairie
maus? 👀
dense latch
yea tera cudgel 100% kills
real prairie
pop bomb the fucker
shadow wind
Ah heck nah
real prairie
🤣
stone trellis
yeah, thats just really sad. Lando is a fake mon. Squishy when you use it, bulky...
I still remember mine living a Helping Hand-boosted CSR Astral Barrage.
shadow wind
Wait if I run specs flutter I can get icy wind to kill and if they tera I can make my Kommo outspeed after the icy wind
Cooking
real prairie
Wait if I run specs flutter I can get icy wind to kill and if they tera I can ma...
cant beat em...
shadow wind
Hey all I’m saying is that Landorus and Urshifu will never enter my builder
Never said anything about bolt or flutter
real prairie
im not faulting you lol
stone trellis
Deck them in the face with a Ground mo- oh yeah, you've got no Ground types now, do you?
dense latch
let the poor man enjoy his PTO
shadow wind
PTO?
dense latch
paid time off
dense latch
i think he gets great dental actually have you seen his teeth
pristine condition
shadow wind
He does have a good smile
dense latch
ok paid or not he's on vacation somewhere
shadow wind
Hopefully not an island vacation
solid frigate
He barely gets dental
That’s why bro’s teeth is bad
shadow wind
Well now we have conflicting information
dense latch
veneers maybe
molten oasis
Nah groudon has a dentist
dense latch
he can probably afford them
molten oasis
So does kyogre
shadow wind
Professor Tangrowth been doing a good job
solid frigate
That’s still enough for dentist appointment
molten oasis
That’s enough
molten oasis
No lmao
shadow wind
Are his spikes tooth like do you think?
molten oasis
Idt primal groudon’s gonna have a good time with Lando lol
shadow wind
Imagine primal Groudon with Pao
dense latch
flutter already has 785k in earnings damn
solid frigate
Idt primal groudon’s gonna have a good time with Lando lol
We love Lando in this house
molten oasis
Imagine primal Groudon with Pao
Oh god lmao
molten oasis
flutter already has 785k in earnings damn
Sorry what
shadow wind
I can see it now
molten oasis
Go look at pao I’m curious
shadow wind
Primal Groudon with Paonite
dense latch
solid frigate
That’s like Half WTF
molten oasis
Holy shit
solid frigate
Even hands is higher
dense latch
shoutout raging bolt dude has been legal for just over a year and is in the top 10
molten oasis
Shifu’s been legal for 2 generations and is getting close to amoonguss lmao
Flutter in one
solid frigate
If you can hit through Protect then yeah
Urshifu stinks
molten oasis
Holy gen 9 power creep there’s 5 gen 9 mons
molten oasis
If you can hit through Protect then yeah
Urshifu stinks
Surging strikes is broken
Unseen fist just pushes it to the Mon being so strong
I think urshifu would be strong anyway
solid frigate
Incineroar still being the king
stone trellis
Five of the top 10 were introduced this gen.
molten oasis
Which also means they were so powerful they managed to get into the top 10 for earnings
dense latch
to be fair you also have to take into account the increase in prize pools in gen 9
solid frigate
Even Urshifu will get Powercreep we somehow see Incin still exist in Gen 15
molten oasis
That too
molten oasis
Even Urshifu will get Powercreep we somehow see Incin still exist in Gen 15
There’s no way shifu gets that power crept
Unseen fist is just, cracked
stone trellis
Even Urshifu will get Powercreep we somehow see Incin still exist in Gen 15
Through artificially buffing its movepool until it knows every non-signature move in the game.
shadow wind
to be fair you also have to take into account the increase in prize pools in gen...
Yeah I was going to say
stone trellis
Follow Me included.
shadow wind
Like it’s true but there’s been way more money recently
molten oasis
Aw hell nah
shadow wind
And now with run back they get more chances
molten oasis
Tho, I don’t think incin would use follow me
dense latch
flutter mane made just under 400k in 2023
compare it to bronzong in 2016 which was the highest there and it only got 50k
molten oasis
I think it has all the tools it needs
molten oasis
flutter mane made just under 400k in 2023
compare it to bronzong in 2016 which ...
Bronzong was only good in 2016 tho
solid frigate
Tho, I don’t think incin would use follow me
It’s not a good user on it because it got better tools than redirection
stone trellis
It also gets Spore.
molten oasis
stone trellis
Non-signature and all that.
dense latch
Bronzong was only good in 2016 tho
yea im just comparing the two highest earners 2023 vs 2016 only taking those years into account
molten oasis
Fair point
dense latch
even in more recent formats like 2019 the highest was incin at 166k
molten oasis
Tbf vgc exploded in popularity during SV
prize pools would go up a lot they’d have to
solid frigate
It’s trying its best to not look bad at least
shadow wind
Like he’s been doing good
And I’m not really doubting him
I just thought I’d ask cause I’ve seen a single other Kommo on the ladder
molten oasis
Guys is Kommo even good
Meh
I think just using the strong guys is a lot more fun rn
Unless you find something that fulfills a good niche idk
shadow wind
See I don’t get fun out of using strong mons, I get fun out of finding ways that let’s the worse mons beat the strong mons
But that’s definitely a me thing and fun is an individual thing anyway
I don’t have to say what I find fun though, my entire personality has been Groudon for the better part of a year
real prairie
He does have a good smile
bold geode
Guys is Kommo even good
No
shadow wind
But why not
bold geode
Actually meh
bold geode
It's not horrible but it requires a LOT of commitment and almost no room for error
shadow wind
Perfect for me then 🤓
bold geode
Now Primarina
That's a Mon right there
shadow wind
Just somehow cringed myself out so bad there
molten oasis
Now Primarina
That's a Mon right there
Monke we both gave up on this
Prima ain’t it lmao
shadow wind
Prima? In F?
bold geode
Monke we both gave up on this
Hey lemme entertain myself
molten oasis
Prima? In F?
I did it first with gapdos yeah
bold geode
Prima? In F?
What if I told you it's actually better this Reg
molten oasis
That team was pretty good
Prima has a genuinely good niche in this format (walling shifu’s)
Being solid into pao and flutter fish too
shadow wind
Oh yeah its typing is super solid
Yknow using Kommo-o is showing me exactly why CSR Zama did well
Like the only type I cannot hit is ghost
And that's what CSR did best
molten oasis
Yknow using Kommo-o is showing me exactly why CSR Zama did well
And CSR covers zama really well
shadow wind
Psychic for poison as well
shadow wind
Groudon Mirai 🙏
molten oasis
bold geode
https://x.com/VGCVictoryRoad/status/1990880188541129164?t=Al_gvX-ZtUjd_iYa9ZTmYg&s=19
@next stump am I crazy or is the top 10 higher in points this season rn than before?
X
next stump
It does certainly seem really high
molten oasis
bold geode
And that's what CSR did best
Yeah but really like
Zama helped CSR more lol
next stump
being 1000+ points in November is crazy
they did up the amount of points that regionals give so that’s probably why
shadow wind
Yeah but really like
Zama helped CSR more lol
True
molten oasis
Tang’s popping off I guess
bold geode
Yeah
Also crazy that only one of the top 10 in NA rn has an auto
shadow wind
+4 196+ Def Kommo-o Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 114-134 (58.1 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
bold geode
Oh is LAIC this week?
Yeah
I think it's the last Reg H tournament too
Don't really get any F until like I think Toronto?
shadow wind
Just need to get 2 of those off somehow
I actually do think specs Flutter helps a tremendous amount
bold geode
Icy Taunt Speed Booster Flutter more
molten oasis
Yeah
I think it's the last Reg H tournament too
Don't really get any F until lik...
Nothing in December so yeah
shadow wind
Icy Taunt Speed Booster Flutter more
Yeah but specs just kills
bold geode
Yeah but overall speed control and helps against CM Bolt
molten oasis
Icy Taunt Speed Booster Flutter more
This set is everywhere
shadow wind
Not wrong
bold geode
Unless they tera too like Icy and Body Press combo should just KO outright
shadow wind
164 SpA Flutter Mane Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 132 SpD Landorus: 92-112 (46.9 - 57.1%) -- 87.9% chance to 2HKO
Man I hate this guy
molten oasis
Lmao
shadow wind
That stupid bird that I hate
bold geode
164 SpA Flutter Mane Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 132 SpD Landorus: 92-112 (46.9 - 57.1...
Remember the calc for no bulk timid too
molten oasis
Lando my goat
bold geode
No bulk timid I believe is very popular rn
shadow wind
164 SpA Flutter Mane Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 112-132 (68.2 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yeah that's better
bold geode
Now calc that with hmmmm
Calc the Tera Fire Flamethrower or Tera Steel Iron Head to boot or even regular Iron Head
Depends on what move you're running there
shadow wind
4 SpA Tera Fire Kommo-o Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 61-73 (37.1 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 press does more
bold geode
Ok so Icy Wind Tera Fire Flamethrower just knocks it out outright unless they tera
These are interactions you have to potentially think about when you're playing with something like Kommo-O that's a lil more niche and requires more work
shadow wind
It is true
+2 196+ Def Kommo-o Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 76-90 (46.3 - 54.8%) -- 61.3% chance to 2HKO
They really do always tera though
shadow wind
If they're tera steel I have a field day
But if they're tera poison
I don't have fun
bold geode
Still the same damage, just Icy Wind does less
Then again, now you know that you basically have something that forces them to tera
shadow wind
Cause no ground or psychic moves on my entire team
shadow wind
True
Moonblast icy taunt into tera poison Lando feels so terrible
I hit the guy for like 20
Dang poison is a gross defensive type
bold geode
Moonblast icy taunt into tera poison Lando feels so terrible
Yeah but it's more of a supportive set anyways
Now you find some other things
shadow wind
My team is definitely lacking offense
I changed my bolt set to lorb but it hasn't been putting in the work
Man some people got the coolest avatars on showdown
Like this is heat
Losing 33 elo to a crit is not my favourite way to play on the ladder
Game 3
Feel like I've been losing game 3s to crits more and more often as I play more ladder
molten oasis
33 elo? Damn
shadow wind
Yeah
No one playing for some reason so it's always a 200 elo down pair
I'm going to blame it on early ladder
Also my horrendous GXE
Kommo just took a tera fairy dgleam from Farig
My glorious king
molten oasis
No one playing for some reason so it's always a 200 elo down pair
SV is almost over
People hate urshifu a lot
shadow wind
I don't blame them
shadow wind
And then games like this happen
I literally didn't even do anything
Other than make the worst turn 1 possible
It's crazy how hard press hurts
Why am I playing against lorb Incin
I had to let it hit for the people
This guy might have the scummiest team of all time
Twave rock slide gambling
And they have min speed room service Urshifu...
This format really feels like pick your favourite duo then slap the best FWG core pokemon has ever seen
Oh and then Bolt cause why not
bold geode
No one playing for some reason so it's always a 200 elo down pair
SV kinda dead and other players haven't hopped on that ladder yet tbh
shadow wind
All these CM bolts is making me consider clear smog Moonguss
Alright taking a step back for a second
Kommo-o can't hit fairy, flying, ghost
Those are the big ones
And so many fairy teras going around
I might use Ghold
Would also give me another mode
foggy lodge
Kommo-o can't hit fairy, flying, ghost
Iron head tera steel
shadow wind
Twin
That ain't killing any fairy anyway
Not even Flutter is dying to that
Let alone a tera fairy Raging bolt
Don't know if I'm a fan of Rilla + Waterpon yet
Feels like I could combine their roles into Amoonguss and.... Urshifu
molten oasis
Shifu!
shadow wind
Wait Excadrill lowkey slams Flutterfish
My goat will rise once more
Ah heck nah calcdex you're tweaking
Wanted to put me on my toes
Why would I ever be calcing against that
I swear this format is just random 2-2-2s
Like Lando and Ogerpon aren't but Gouging Gambit and Paonite are
molten oasis
I swear this format is just random 2-2-2s
Kinda
You either play balance stuff or 2-2-2 stuff
cyan smelt
Wait my goat gambit is still viable in reg f?
molten oasis
Gouging fire kingambit is a solid duo
shadow wind
Man screw this Lando guy
I can have 5/6 mons locked down
Then he comes in and I don’t have an immediate answer on the field so I lose
molten oasis
Guys I think Conner hates landorous
foggy lodge
No more tera fire heat crash to kill it💔
solid frigate
Guys I think Conner hates landorous
Let’s haunt him with the genie
dense latch
cyan smelt
Where's the lando meme
shadow wind
I just played against one of the most cooked teams of all time
Scarf coaching waterfu with AV Lando T
molten oasis
wtf
shadow wind
A surprisingly terrible MU for me
rustic mountain
shadow wind
I have one special attacker and it's Flutter with like 76 invest
molten oasis
Still flutter
molten oasis
Fair
shadow wind
This Reg has me not wanting to see any of these mon ever ever again
It's like Groudon never left my builder
molten oasis
This Reg has me not wanting to see any of these mon ever ever again
All of those? Lmao
I like crown stuff crown’s a cool guy
molten oasis
Lmao
shadow wind
I swear to god he's just on every team
dense latch
you can never escape him
rustic mountain
urshi?
shadow wind
I actually can't
shadow wind
I'd argue that
molten oasis
not even top 5 mon in the format tho
Who’s above?
molten oasis
I think bolt shifu and flutter are the top 3 at least
Maybe incin over shifu but bolt and flutter fs
shadow wind
I think Lando is better than Hearth
rustic mountain
incin rilla flutter ursh bolt hearthflame
yea id put all these ahead of it
dense latch
you can argue pao over lando too
rustic mountain
agreed
molten oasis
True
dense latch
lando's top 10 though
rustic mountain
yeh id say top 10 for sure
molten oasis
I’d probably go like
Bolt
Flutter
Shifu
Incin
Ogerpon
Rilla
Pao
Lando
Amoonguss
Chi yu
Feel like I’m missing one
dense latch
i think the top 4 are pretty interchangeable
molten oasis
Yeah maybe chi yu
rustic mountain
id put chi yu over torn
molten oasis
i think the top 4 are pretty interchangeable
100%
dense latch
like any of those being #1 i'd see as fair
molten oasis
I think bolt is the top but yeah every single one has reasons to be #1
Could argue incin depending on how the format develops later
rustic mountain
id say incin as great as it is is the hardest to argue #1
molten oasis
Tho we’re probably just in the balance cycle
rustic mountain
urshi, bolt or flutter tho i think are all reasonable enough
molten oasis
Yeah
shadow wind
I just hate Lando 😔
rustic mountain
we can tell
rustic mountain
lmao nice
molten oasis
Shifu Hearthflame lando feels so damn strong
rustic mountain
i just wish i could play it on cart
molten oasis
And I was like “you know, moon kicks ass with those 3”
dense latch
i finished finals last week so i've got like 6 or 7 months to do absolutely nothing
hopefully i can get better at reg f with that time
rustic mountain
eh
molten oasis
At least these mons are more fun to play tho reg h mons we’re kinda boring
shadow wind
My past like 6 games have all had Lando
molten oasis
i finished finals last week so i've got like 6 or 7 months to do absolutely noth...
I’m moving and chilling basically lol
molten oasis
I do wish we had cart
molten oasis
So lame it’s reg j
rustic mountain
rustic mountain
i like the vr winning one
which is that
molten oasis
Bolt balance is probably the top or one of the top archetypes
dense latch
which is that
japan balance but firepon over pao
molten oasis
Very strong team
molten oasis
japan balance but firepon over pao
That teams really good
rustic mountain
ahh ok yea
dense latch
idk how i feel about dropping pao but i love hearthflame personally
rustic mountain
pao is so good tho
molten oasis
The SD pon right?
molten oasis
idk how i feel about dropping pao but i love hearthflame personally
I think you just end up relying more heavily on shifu and rilla for lando and ursa
Glide spam strong too
rustic mountain
just in general it enables so much u have 4/6 of ur mons as physical attackers and dark/ice coverage is very nice
molten oasis
Chien pao my goat
rustic mountain
tradeoffs tho hearthflame offers different utililty
shadow wind
It literally just feels like there's no mon that can eat a Lando hit without taking 60
molten oasis
It literally just feels like there's no mon that can eat a Lando hit without tak...
Cuz there isn’t lol
Lando hits really damn hard
shadow wind
Awesome
dense latch
welcome to reg f
dense latch
just don't let your opponent hit you as much as you do :)
shadow wind
At least the other ones have resistances
rustic mountain
just don't let your opponent hit you as much as you do :)
exactly
molten oasis
Tbf ground poison coverage is just kinda really good
dense latch
yea it's kinda crazy
molten oasis
Poison covers ground really well
rustic mountain
ground is like one of the best offensive types
shadow wind
Boutta boot up tera steel Latios
rustic mountain
sheer force + life orb
molten oasis
Boutta boot up tera steel Latios
Mid
rustic mountain
yea ur gna chunk things
shadow wind
Well it walls Lando
molten oasis
It’s still mid
shadow wind
So I don't really care
molten oasis
Remember when Latias was meta for like a week
shadow wind
"even if i lose as long as lando is walled"
Exactly
rustic mountain
it won a regional in reg f i think
molten oasis
Did it?
rustic mountain
or no that was reg g
dense latch
reg g
rustic mountain
the zama team
molten oasis
Yeah latios won a regional
dense latch
mdb's moltres latios zama team
molten oasis
Latias hasn’t won shit lol
molten oasis
I’ve come around to using good mons to win (I don’t hate myself as much)
rustic mountain
only took like 2 years
shadow wind
Can't wait for me to have that change
dense latch
i got through my i hate the meta i only wanna use my favorites phase 4 years ago so getting back into vgc last year was a bit easier lol
molten oasis
only took like 2 years
Yes it took 2 years and I will still play zacian
rustic mountain
molten oasis
But yes I’m better about that
molten oasis
<:mariokekhandslike:1008879763995242496>
I made her work and had fun with her
rustic mountain
i got through my i hate the meta i *only* wanna use my favorites phase 4 years a...
maturing is realizing some of the mons u use along the way will become ur favorites
dense latch
regieleki <3
molten oasis
I wish gouging fire could run more than one set
shadow wind
Yeah
molten oasis
Ddance sets just kinda suck
rustic mountain
atleast it has something
molten oasis
True you could be the many other mons that can’t do anything
molten oasis
I saw some attempts at Archaludon teams
Lando shredded through them I forgot how much weaker Archaludon is in this format
rustic mountain
idt arch is bad in reg f but its not gna b anywhere close to reg h level
molten oasis
Yeah it’s nice, those mons feel a lot better in check
shadow wind
I might prefer a Lando team to this bruh
rustic mountain
as good as arch was in reg h it wasnt as dominant as dengo ursa etc
sneasler, dnite
shadow wind
W 2-2-2 !!!
molten oasis
Reg h 1 it was hella dominant
rustic mountain
it won once
shadow wind
Because we HATE thinking in the builder
rustic mountain
common doesnt equate to conversion tho, just because it was around doesnt mean it was consistently doing super well every tour
molten oasis
Fair enough
rustic mountain
i agree it did much better in reg h 1 but it def was still around in reg h 2, but a few ppl reimagined it (sturdy power herb) or just reconfigured rain teams
just still was outperformed by the other top dogs of the format
shadow wind
Now what if there was a Groudon of this format 😔
molten oasis
just still was outperformed by the other top dogs of the format
Dengo got so much more powerful I feel
Once balance teams started popping off the guy was everywhere
rustic mountain
idk dude it was always really good in non restricted
u take away the legends? its goin crazy
molten oasis
Reg h and a I feel were its strongest formats
shadow wind
I just don't enjoy using the super meta
shadow wind
Oh 100%
molten oasis
I perform a lot better with good mons, which I feel kinda comes from playing shitmons for years
shadow wind
But I'm not competing so it isn't killing me
rustic mountain
i feel like ppl here understimate their desire to win
molten oasis
I did
shadow wind
I want to win in the builder and the battle
molten oasis
I do average 70% gxe’s now which feels good
shadow wind
And I know using the meta requires good team building as well
molten oasis
And I generally feel like I’m playing pretty well this format
shadow wind
But that's just not what I enjoy
molten oasis
I thought the same way.
rustic mountain
1% of the playerbase are good teambuilders in the comp scene
molten oasis
If I fed and played zama in restricted formats i would have had more fun
rustic mountain
obviously a guestimate but its extremely low
molten oasis
I think my teambuilding is pretty good
But it’s nothing like the pros
They know the game so well
rustic mountain
and they did that (mostly) by using meta stuff and figuring out why things are good and how they synergize
ofc theres outliers
molten oasis
Yeah you kinda just have to play meta as boring as it can seem
shadow wind
The reason I'm ok with not performing at my best is simply because I'm not attending irl events
Like this is a hobby
molten oasis
I wanna win
shadow wind
If I'm going to play I'm going to have fun
rustic mountain
yea i guess thats fine but if u plan to id say no better time to start then the present
but yea i just like winning, sure itd b cool if sceptile was meta defining but here we are
shadow wind
Winning is so awesome
Don't get me wrong I want to win so bad
It's the reason I play VGC at all
rustic mountain
i think u just embody that 1 elite four member karen or w/e
shadow wind
Nah cause Kommo ain't my day 1
Oh nah my entire pc just crashed
There goes 20 elo
That is the absolute fastest my computer has ever restarted
molten oasis
I think if you think something niche can work you should test it though
Nothing wrong with testing ideas
rustic mountain
i never try to discourage ppl from teambuilding i just think mostly ppl are better served doing meta for awhile before really delving into that
shadow wind
Computer crashed then restarted instantly and I hit a double protect to win
rustic mountain
and even then most top players arent good teambuilders
molten oasis
Most take existing teams and make their own modifications
Or just use the team flat out
rustic mountain
p much or form groups to optimize it
molten oasis
I’m playing the Lunala team that won a regional, and just place crown over Lunala
It’s working pretty well
dense latch
it's been a bit since i last built my own team
shadow wind
I've made my view on building or "taking" teams so I won't go on again
rustic mountain
i guess i built the reg i team too but csr/zama built itself
a lot of ppl wound up w/ the same core
shadow wind
My builder is my builder and other teams do not enter it period
dense latch
my reg i team for most of the reg was just mdb's team but volc over lando
shadow wind
Which is a terrible way to look at it but I'm too prideful to change
rustic mountain
my builders gotten wiped randomly so many times ive lost like every team ive had in there
shadow wind
And I know understanding it's bad and not doing anything about it is almost worse
rustic mountain
rustic mountain
i feel like wen u no longer nerf urself ull see the light
shadow wind
Eh who knows
Most likely I just don't want it to happen
For the sake of my pride/ego
stone trellis
Man, I don't know if there are any super big attacks that I need to calc all my Pokemon against.
dense latch
stressing too much about calcs and stuff isn't worth it in my opinion
shadow wind
Real
stone trellis
For the sake of my pride/ego
God, I wish I had that clip of Mike where he rants at Walter.
dense latch
if in testing you come across a move you want to survive
just change your evs then
stone trellis
Nah, I like doing that stuff.
shadow wind
If there's a close calc go for it but I wouldn't bother with checking every calc ever
stone trellis
Oh boy, does he know?
shadow wind
Do I know what?
stone trellis
I remember calcing to see if -1 Kyogre after a Snarl could OHKO my CIR.
After Tera Fire.
Spoiler alert, it couldn't because Water Spout goes down to 123 BP and it's at -1.
Too bad I've never actually had to face that.
Because it creates a nice pin situation for the Kyogre player.
shadow wind
I'd rather spend time on ladder than in the calc
stone trellis
I did spend time on ladder.
Hence why I got my all-time high of 1571.
Or 1570, I can't recall.
shadow wind
I don't remember my highest peak
Mostly because elo peaks don't matter to me
I know I went over 1800 but that was Reg H1 Bo1 ladder so it holds zero value to me
dense latch
i only remember my peak because i was going kinda crazy on ladder in reg h 1.0
dense latch
i got to 1850 i think then also had four or five other accounts around 1700
i loved bax
shadow wind
I always had multiple accounts high too back then yeah
I feel retired lowkey
I only play on the main nowadays
No more alts have been made since Reg I
Also games like this make me think Kommo might be goated
But it's just that the team hates Lando so much that I need to change it
But also dlc was supposed to drop for a game today but it dropped on everything but the switch so I was kinda planning to take a break from vgc again
Alright no more ladder for tonight I'm super tilting cause of Lando
I'll come back to it tomorrow probably
I just can't deal with seeing another EP do 96% neutrally
real prairie
Morning
real prairie
Also games like this make me think Kommo might be goated
Maybe you need a plan that involves leaving Kommo behind for lando teams
cyan smelt
Or just use ludicolo
real prairie
Or just use ludicolo
Cripling himself wont help 🤣
cyan smelt
That's my nightmare for tonight sorted then
real prairie
https://x.com/sinnoh_ceo/status/1990490765823529211?s=46
Reminds me of this:
real prairie
I might be onto something: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2026regf-2484141382
cyan smelt
The return of tera ice tsareena
real prairie
just faced a max speed tera ghost tera blast Rillaboom, wtaf 🤣
cyan smelt
Is that for flutter
real prairie
no idea
cyan smelt
That's funny
real prairie
cyan smelt
That's why you don't use hoodra, too easy to get encore locked
I want to use hoodra but the more I see it the more I realise that archaludon is just better
real prairie
I want to use hoodra but the more I see it the more I realise that archaludon is...
or Komoo-o
chrome knot
@real prairie i didnt know pon learnt that
real prairie
rain dance?
chrome knot
ye
real prairie
was that you?
real prairie
GG
chrome knot
ggs
chrome knot
idk what to have as a 6th
ursh ive used as to just show up and die to keep offensive pressure lmfao
walking wake sucked
real prairie
id need to go back and look at the team, feels like Typhlosion might be okay though?
real prairie
think it fits well
you sent me on a spiral, was unbeaten before you, now lost 4 on the bounce, all sun teams 🤣
chrome knot
sowwieeee
real prairie
haha its good, means its time for lunch
chrome knot
i was jamming lines that had 0 sleep powders so i was jus practicinggg
i found out my flutter spread was stupid it was tying stats @ 179 so itd never speedboost lmfao
real prairie
yeah i anticipated a weather swap turn 1 obviously
chrome knot
i mean i had 0 reason to budge ngl toed pon doesn’t exactly threaten me much unless i did swap
real prairie
yeah didn't realise that at the time
chrome knot
i misplayed by not splitting dmg with lilligant
i think if i cc toed + keep pon checked with clap im fine
real prairie
I also expected Toed to do more, being Specs n all
chrome knot
av fat bolt
real prairie
av fat bolt
makes sense
real prairie
av fat bolt
chrome knot
noo im ok you can keep that
real prairie
🤣
stone trellis
What EVs does Hearthflame run in Reg F?
rare pumice
does anybody know what spreads weakness policy rhyperior use to run during early sword and shield era?
dense latch
does anybody know what spreads weakness policy rhyperior use to run during early...
brave 252 hp 252 atk should work fine
then like 4 into spdef
rare pumice
alright, thank you
knotty briar
I've been working on building a reg H team
How does this look?
Any improvements?
foggy lodge
It looks like hard TR but all over the place ngl
next stump
just making sure you know reg H ends in a week or so
foggy lodge
This weekend technically
It becomes a zombie after LAIC cuz ladder will be more dead than ever
waxen dock
It becomes a zombie after LAIC cuz ladder will be more dead than ever
still stuggurt
which will be in the final weekend in reg h
stone trellis
I've been working on building a reg H team
How does this look?
Any improvements...
I've fought with you.
At least I think I have.
knotty briar
I've fought with you.
You have?
I've only been doing ranked thus far
stone trellis
I've definitely faced a similar team.
knotty briar
I haven't built the team in game yet
stone trellis
Again, I've faced a similar team on Showdown, I'm probably mistaking it for something else.
knotty briar
I build teams in showdown, get second opinions, then I build them in game
You are, I haven't tested it yet
My line of thinking was having a TR mode and a fast offense mode
But it seems this team may be a flop
stone trellis
I don't even know if I like this team or not.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2026regf-2484407367
I definitely like it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2026regf-2484410071
