competitive_discussion

[bold geode]

Plz don't bring this up in this chat like this plz

If you have concerns head to #reports for this

Added note, while the channel is predominantly VGC, singles can be discussed here as it is also a competitive format, just a less official one than VGC

[waxen dock]

what is this document?

[stone trellis]

PASRS.

Some spreadsheet on Google Sheets where you post your Showdown username and paste all your replays so you can see stats related to your games.

[real prairie]

https://devoncorp.press/resources/the-release-of-pasrs-6-2

[timber falcon]

Oh wow ur a competitive helper now

[real prairie]

Monke deserved it 😄

[stone trellis]

Valiant having a 91% win percentage is crazy.

It'd be closer to 80% if I had kept all the pastes where I lost, but oh well.

[bold geode]

I've been one
How out of the loop are you

[bold geode]

They're trapping me, help I'm being forced to help you cretins /j

[timber falcon]

Exam season hit and in a daze I missed like 4 regulations 😭

[bold geode]

Bruh how LMAO

That's crazy

[timber falcon]

Yeah I’m slowly tryna incorporate competitive Pokémon back into my routine

[real prairie]

Again im getting the abuse 🤣

[bold geode]

[real prairie]

Looks like i need a fairy type 👀 🤔

[bold geode]

But do you though

[real prairie]

i really dunno, but it looks like it haha

[spiral ridge]

I mean

Your defensive spread is pretty good
If anything look at a coverage spread?

On a rain team a flying type would also work well here

[real prairie]

yeah need a grass counter

my problem is flying and Ice types are all squishy

i tried focus sash Weavile but doesn't have the damage output

[primal saddle]

alola ninetaes looks good on your team

[real prairie]

If i could self proct competitive Kilowattrel that would be great, but alas

[stone trellis]

Pelipper sets rain and is a Flying type, but...

[real prairie]

Doesn't have the coverage moves of the toad

[stone trellis]

Fair.

[real prairie]

running Earth power on tera grass specs Politoed has done some serious business

also having that Ground coverage for fire types when sun goes up is GREAT

[primal saddle]

https://pokepast.es/0c3ed30c97bcee9a

[real prairie]

whats electabuzz job here? usually redirects are for set up mostly.

[primal saddle]

it enables my sweepers to just go crazy

[real prairie]

yeah i guess

ultra offensive team, similar to what Cybertron was running

[primal saddle]

its also speed control

idk dont bring it every match but when i do it feels good

cause my team does so much dmg

[real prairie]

feel taunt might be more useful than helping hand, then you have a non-prankster taunter

[primal saddle]

yeah i actually feel the same way

helpng hand is nce though, i have to tes

electabuzz with taunt allows me to lead it into trick room, which is probably better than helping hand

helping hand almost feels like its win harder, but taunt can help me with those damn TR teams

[real prairie]

seems i have okay coverage

[spiral ridge]

Grimm could be good ig with your fat arch

[real prairie]

maybe i drop weatherball for psychic on Politoed?

still doesn't help my only grass counter is a slow-ish water type

[real prairie]

id never know what to lead with Grim

[spiral ridge]

Grimm arch or incin??

Speed control. Fake out. Parting. Just lots of choices

[real prairie]

Grimm incin is quite passive, Arch works better being switched into a bulletseed from Ludicolo

but guess passive is fine if i get screens up

[spiral ridge]

Ic

[real prairie]

Feel free to give me suggestions: https://pokepast.es/87c789b3f89505b6

those are not Incins stats btw, i corrected them but forgot to update the paste on this computer

[stone trellis]

I got insanely lucky for once.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025regj-2444956253

[robust arrow]

grimm incin gives you a load of options to work with imo

[waxen dock]

i wonder how the global challnge will work this time

[raw lodge]

Is there like a good tera type for slyveon to be ?

[dense latch]

fire is pretty good

[raw lodge]

Fire? Really?

I don't know much XD

[stone trellis]

There's another one coming?

[waxen dock]

global

not grand

if there will even be a global challegnge

[solid frigate]

Fire (the usual one) or Fighting (I tested Fighting)

[raw lodge]

Huh

Why fire?

[raw lodge]

Thx

[gentle crag]

mushroomvalley22 has given 1 Gen Rep to morrispxg456

[raw lodge]

I did huh

[solid frigate]

Tera blast

Fairy and Fire are really good offensively

[raw lodge]

I seee

[next stump]

there’s gotta be a global challenge because japan only qualifies through those

[dense latch]

covers sylveon's weakness to steel + good defensive typing + potentially tera blast

steel works fine too if you're not gonna do tera blast because it's arguably an even better defensive typing
you resist or are immune to both of sylveon's weaknesses

[stone trellis]

Doesn't Tera Blast also get affected by Pixilate pre-Tera?

Since it's a Normal move and all that.

So if you want a slightly stronger single-target option, Tera Blast still works.

[foggy lodge]

Poison

[craggy dagger]

why not just moonblast then .-.

[stone trellis]

96 BP > 95 BP.

Also, can Moonblast turn into a Fire move when you need it to?

[craggy dagger]

chance for spatk drop and just another reliable single target fairy move if you tera

[stone trellis]

Didn't think so.

So you can have all three.

[craggy dagger]

id rather have a single target fairy move than one that changes 😭

[stone trellis]

Tera Fire Tera Blast still seems like good coverage.

I love it when I get matched up against someone who's 200 points above me, truly the fairest shit ever.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025regj-2445102743-qkejcwm7d0pv4e74j0wpox332vbjeuepw

And we gotta have a 95% accurate move missing there too, can't fucking forget that one.

[bold geode]

Was one announced?

[vernal shadow]

Just curious. How busted would megas be if they didn't need the stones ? Looking back at them, some of the better ones may struggle now due to power creep imo. Do they need buffs or like mega stone requirements removed or anything ?

[foggy lodge]

They would be broken

[bold geode]

Probably very broken

[foggy lodge]

Mega Gengar with a sash is a menace

[bold geode]

You could give every physical mega a Clear Amulet to block Incineroar

[foggy lodge]

Scarf mega garchomp

But yeah they would be direct upgrades to every usual Pokémon

Actually were there any pokemon with a mega that was not used with its mega

I think mewtwo was?

[stone trellis]

Was Mewtwo used at all?

[foggy lodge]

Ig there were some

Wait did Salamence receive its mega on X and Y or ORAS

[solid frigate]

ORAS

there's a literal trainer whose main mega is Mence

[civic plover]

anyone here managed to get to Master Rank in this regulation?

also ive been told that dollarmonke smells ig

[solid frigate]

@bold geode LMAO MONKE

[civic plover]

anyways, i cant seem to get near the master rank and i absolutly dont like this regulation

not sure if its possible someone else could get the master rank ribbons for me???

or gimme a cheesy team

then again i mainly play singles so idk about asking for doubles

[solid frigate]

Just use any like Meta team in Reg I to combat Reg J

Reg J is just reg I but Mythicals barely impact anythings

[civic plover]

yeah i also didnt like Reg I

never got master rank there

where can i find teams anyhow

[solid frigate]

Victory Road Website or VGCPastes Repository

[civic plover]

ok thanks

tho i fear im only gonna find stuff for doubles, when im a filthy singles player

[solid frigate]

yeah singles especially BSS is kinda hard for us to kjnow

[civic plover]

:(

all i want is some ribbons, ig i just gotta keep trying

[vernal shadow]

Then next question. Should some that had stats "wasted" into something like attack as a special attacker for example have stats reallocated or maybe more stat points added for power creep ? Or should they be left as is ? Game freak is bringing them back but they are like a decade behind in terms of releases so have they fallen off (majority bc ik things like gengar with it's shadow tag is insane)

[real prairie]

@bold geode

[bold geode]

Excuse me why am I catching strays

[civic plover]

ive been told to call u that

u think u can help me or nah

[bold geode]

1. By who
2. Whatchu need

[civic plover]

1. someone named silk
2. getting master rank ribbon cuz im unable to touch master rank and i really wanna get all ribbons on 2 mythicals of mine

[bold geode]

If you're looking for me to use mons in master rank, I don't do that personally though I can give advice

[civic plover]

i could use either OP or cheesy teams

tho i mainly play singles, i dont know how to doubles

[bold geode]

Oh
I don't know jack about singles

[civic plover]

damn

ig i gotta have to brute force it somehow

[bold geode]

Yeah
I can't link it, but there's a Smogon server you could probably find via Google that could help too

[feral wraith]

[craggy dagger]

lol

[cobalt tapir]

[bold geode]

Imma have singles resources up hopefully soon but ATM I don't I apologize

[bold geode]

Blud is sending mercenaries

[feral wraith]

I don’t care that shits funny

[deft meteor]

(can you make a make a team of bugs types I seen on YouTube a guy make a team of bugs he lose 2 battles but win next time?

[craggy dagger]

i can try to help
its been a while since ive played singles tho

wheres shiro?

[bold geode]

Bro I'm just at work minding my damn business when I see a ping and then I look above and see "btw someone told me to say dollarmonke is stinky" and I'm like bro why am I catching strays

[feral wraith]

Oh you got bothered at work?

That’s even better

[cobalt tapir]

boys, boys, settle down

[bold geode]

At least I don't call people bad words

[cobalt tapir]

[feral wraith]

Yes you do

[cobalt tapir]

ykw

its true

he called me a bitch

[feral wraith]

Same

[bold geode]

No I don't you fucker

[cobalt tapir]

point proven

[bold geode]

I'd never

I'm a sweet lil Christian boy

[cobalt tapir]

sure..

[bold geode]

Nah remember all those slurs EJC called me?

[cobalt tapir]

omg ur right

[bold geode]

He even told me to get a...

Get a..

God

To get a j*b

[feral wraith]

For the last time, clanker isnt a slur

[cobalt tapir]

clanker is a slur techically

just for ai

[solid frigate]

Lmao

[bold geode]

THE OTHER ONE /j

[bold geode]

Petition to call generative AI artists clankers

[feral wraith]

Are you still bitching about being called a honky?

[feral wraith]

Don’t call them artists

[bold geode]

Oh no I am one

[solid frigate]

They barely even count as one

Actually no they don’t count

[stone trellis]

Calling AI image generator users "artists" is like calling the customers of a restaurant "chefs".

[bold geode]

Idet they're artists lol

[molten oasis]

Tf is going on

[stone trellis]

That was what I meant.

[bold geode]

Also that's dope

[stone trellis]

I need to find some way to deal with Snarl missing on CSR when it's guaranteed to KO it.

The fuck do I do?

[real prairie]

Wide lens?

[stone trellis]

And ditch AV?

[real prairie]

On whom?

[stone trellis]

On Miraidon.

[real prairie]

Ooo okay maybe not

Any partners to lower evasion?

[stone trellis]

Tera Dark Snarl does unreasonable damage, its only problem is that it has the tendency to flip a coin when its target is a ghostly horse.

[stone trellis]

Like who?

[tiny karma]

Filters

• Learns Defog

Results (227)

Charizard, Charizard-Mega-X, Charizard-Mega-Y, Charizard-Gmax, Butterfree, Butterfree-Gmax, Beedrill, Beedrill-Mega, Pidgey, Pidgeotto, Pidgeot, Pidgeot-Mega, Spearow, Fearow, Zubat, Golbat, Venomoth, Farfetch’d, Farfetch’d-Galar, Weezing-Galar, Scyther, Aerodactyl, Aerodactyl-Mega, Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Dragonite, Mew, Hoothoot, Noctowl, Ledian, Crobat, Togetic, Xatu, Yanma, Murkrow, Gligar, Scizor, Scizor-Mega, Delibird, Mantine, Skarmory, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Torchic, Combusken, Blaziken, Blaziken-Mega, Beautifly, Dustox, Seedot, Nuzleaf, Shiftry, Taillow, Swellow, Wingull, Pelipper, Masquerain, Ninjask, Volbeat, Illumise, Vibrava, Flygon, Swablu, Altaria, Altaria-Mega, Castform, Castform-Sunny, Castform-Rainy, Castform-Snowy, Tropius, Chimecho, Salamence, Salamence-Mega, Latias, Latias-Mega, Latios, Latios-Mega, Rayquaza, Rayquaza-Mega, Piplup, Prinplup, Empoleon, Starly, Staravia, Staraptor, Mothim, Vespiquen, Drifloon, Drifblim, Honchkrow, Stunky, Skuntank, Chatot, Carnivine

Generation

natdex

Transferred Pokémon

Included

Sableye version 4.28.4

[stone trellis]

Defog for Reg J?

[real prairie]

Wait no, because you need the terrain

[stone trellis]

Man, we are really getting desperate.

[real prairie]

Gravity?

Feels excessive though

[stone trellis]

I don't want the move to always land, I just want to have a plan for when it misses for the fifth time.

[real prairie]

My plan in those situations is cry

[stone trellis]

Dedicating too many resources on that one simple move will require me to take away from the good stuff.

[real prairie]

Very true and sensible

[stone trellis]

(I.e. Iron Valiant clicking Coaching next to Ice Rider while it sends everyone to the MJ concert in Heaven)

I could replace Feint on Valiant for Taunt...

• Removes Calm Mind and SD from Arceus
• Removes Nasty Plot from CSR
• Removes Protect as a whole
  Yep, Taunt's the shit.

Don't have to care about breaking Wide Guard or Protect if they aren't clickable in the first place.

[bold geode]

I hate the fact that Reg J exists when Reg H is better

[stone trellis]

All I can hear is "boo-hoo, I only want Sneasler and Kingambit killing everything instead of Miraidon and the horses on ladder".

I don't know which of my team members isn't pulling their weight.

I've brought Whims the least, but it won all three games I brought it to.

[real prairie]

@bold geode another one lol

[bold geode]

Real

As

Fuck

[real prairie]

🤣

[bold geode]

My young ass was with monkeys like with fart jokes
As kid, mmm monkey
Teenager, eh didn't care too much
Adult, mmmm monkey

[supple crypt]

quick quesh

was pecharunt ever tournament legal

[bold geode]

Nope and it never will be

[real prairie]

Unless we get a reg J format

But doubt it

[stone trellis]

Calm down, monke.

[bold geode]

I will shoot myself

[stone trellis]

Champions will probably allow us to use mythicals.

[stone trellis]

Why?

[bold geode]

CUZ REG J IS ASS

[real prairie]

Doubt it.

It's more likely it will be super limited initially

[bold geode]

It's literally just Reg I + Arceus I'm guessing

[stone trellis]

Arceus dies to Koraidon, Magearna dies to Incineroar and Hoopa dies to U-turn from anything.

[bold geode]

Like I like Reg I but like
I hate the formats where nothing changes like J or E

[stone trellis]

Anybody else I need to mention?

[bold geode]

Magearna is dogshit
The Magearna teams are so telegraphed

[molten oasis]

[stone trellis]

Focus Sash fries them all.

[bold geode]

Yeah
I literally lead Sash Ursh and Incin into their Final Gambit Ape and Magearna
And Helping Hand Tera Stellar Surging
And if they don't Tera they just explode and are down two Pokemon instantly

[stone trellis]

And Firepon turns into 15 finger Sukuna against those teams.

[stone trellis]

I do Helping Hand Tera Stellar CC.

They never have Tera Fairy anyway.

At least I did when I had Urshifu.

Now I just position Firepon to blow it up.

[bold geode]

I just do Helping Hand Stellar Surging cuz my monkey brain thinks the crits do more, but also cuz then you get to click Tera Stellar CC to chunk Ice Rider

Cuz if they don't Tera Magearna they tera the Ice Rider

[stone trellis]

Fair.

[bold geode]

But it pisses me off cuz Ice Rider when tera'd lives Lorb Astral Barrage + Tera Stellar CC

[stone trellis]

You know, my favorite turn 1 play was switching Miraidon out into Firepon and using Coaching.

[bold geode]

Y'know who I loved using Cornerstone against
Smeargle

[stone trellis]

Tera Water Magearna died in one hit from +1 Horn Leech.

[bold geode]

Cornerstone Follow Me removes half of Smeargle's kit

[stone trellis]

I think I could use Parabolic Charge over Discharge on my Mirai.

The healing might actually matter since the dude's meant to be tanky as hell.

[real prairie]

Loved using cornerstone against Zamazenta

(I was running counter) 🤣

[real prairie]

Not my smeargle, would use feint and let Kyogre ohko in rain 🤣

[bold geode]

If I don't need to WG I just usually tera and smack that dumb fish

[real prairie]

Thus feint, stop the wide guard, breaks sturdy and can't out speed my scarf whale

[molten oasis]

https://pokepast.es/1a8ed9b5faa17a95

https://pokepast.es/404d726782110e98

https://pokepast.es/bb87e011835ff265
which looks best?

[knotty mirage]

I wonder when we will get the reg that have no restriction

[bold geode]

Why I got AV Bolt too

[bold geode]

Don't need to Thunderclap if the Water Spout tickles me

[real prairie]

Dw the triple axel will finish what the water spout starts

Outspeeds too 😉

[bold geode]

Cool
Once the Kyogre is weak as hell I don't need Bolt that much LOL

[real prairie]

You won't get the hit off 👀😉

Haha bring back reg G man

[bold geode]

Lol

I think Kyogre was so trash tbh

[real prairie]

Tbh I'd never have ran it if I wasn't using Ludicolo 😭🤣

[bold geode]

Like it was good enough that you had to respect it but that was about it

[real prairie]

Id love reg G to come back though.

[bold geode]

I liked I honestly

[molten oasis]

I feel like kyogre was just bound to struggle this gen

Miraidon and koraidon both suck for it

[bold geode]

Koraidon was really a bitch huh LOL

[molten oasis]

Yeah lol

[bold geode]

Bro Koraidon had a generational comeback this past season

[molten oasis]

It did, went from being mid to being a top tier

[primal saddle]

https://pokepast.es/8c6a70299926e1d8 ursaluna seems totally weak on this team, can you guys come up with anything besides it ?

i guess archaludon is the obvious choice

[bold geode]

I'd say either Power Herb Archaludon or go Specs Dengo and Lorb Blood Moon Ursaluna

Though I do think your BM Ursa AV spread is a bit off too so that could definitely be it too

[primal saddle]

what do you thnk youd recommend on the bursa EV ?

[bold geode]

I would honestly look around Munchstats or look up YouTube videos there or like hmmm

@foggy lodge @forest arrow we need AV Blursa shit

[foggy lodge]

148 HP 12 Def to survive CC from jolly sneasler

Maybe 156 to get the extra HP from grassy terrain

[bold geode]

What's the HP for in general

[foggy lodge]

116 SpD to survive tera normal bloodmoon from lorb Blursa

[bold geode]

I see

[foggy lodge]

Its necessary to survive those two hits

[livid nacelle]

gu hsdlhgwliu4378o3l4uteorluhkjelow]

[foggy lodge]

And the rest bump it in whatever you want

[livid nacelle]

jfljfejkhjek7h8325477h237lo'[;''

heres my team
https://pokepast.es/5c2898493f961514

is it decent

suggest fixes and replacement for some mons

[foggy lodge]

Most of us don't play singles here so

[livid nacelle]

oh

[foggy lodge]

Ursaluna-Bloodmoon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Mind's Eye
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 148 HP / 12 Def / 116 SpA / 116 SpD / 116 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Earth Power
• Hyper Voice
• Vacuum Wave
• Blood Moon

[livid nacelle]

whats this for

[foggy lodge]

I was running this with blursa to survive the lorb bloodmoon and jolly sneasler CC and it hits the 2nd sp atk bump

[livid nacelle]

whats a sp atk bump?

[foggy lodge]

With natures sometimes evs give 2 points instead of 1 at certain values like 176 and 187

[livid nacelle]

oh okay

i have no idea on which violet only pokemon i should use

yes violet only i cant access pokemon home

i got nothing there anyway

and i cant play online because im using an emulator

[glossy heath]

i really wanna get into comp but i just dont have access to the crazy legendaries you can only get from swsh

is there any decent team that you can make without those legendaries? i can get the ones from scarlet

[dense latch]

https://pokepast.es/aa1c44cee7c13f90 this won worlds, aside from ursaluna you should be able to get all of these mons without swsh

[glossy heath]

okay, replacement for ursa?

also tysm

[dense latch]

no problem

[dense latch]

it's hard to find a replacement there, it's a pretty important piece to the team
if i were you i'd just start off with pokémon showdown to use whatever pokemon you want, and once you've found something you enjoy you can take it to the actual game

[glossy heath]

great idea, ill just look for pokemon that can fill a similar role, even if worse

[dense latch]

if you do end up liking the team i'm sure someone's gonna have an ursa to trade in the respective channels

[molten oasis]

Oh right you can’t get ursaluna without arceus

[real prairie]

Tera normal silk scalf Ursaluna?

Alternatively a 2nd physical attacker.

[cyan smelt]

Would tera electric yawn ursaluna be good on that team

[real prairie]

Too passive I think

It's an ultra offensive team

Banded dragapult might be good

[polar canyon]

Why electric

[real prairie]

It's the recent set that just won regional

[polar canyon]

Dang why

What gives it the edge over ghost

First guess is make it rain resist

[cyan smelt]

Resist electro shot

[real prairie]

It's neutral to basically everything and resists steel putting it in a good place to counter opposition Ghouldengo

[polar canyon]

Of course ursaluna needs a better type matchup for electric moves I should have guessed

[cyan smelt]

Well usually the weather ball from pelipper kos it

[real prairie]

@polar canyon

Regional winning team.

https://pokepast.es/ca3e078f5fa4db4b

[polar canyon]

Ninetales is fun to see

Saw a short about a scyther winning something somewhere too

[real prairie]

It's a bitch, it's surged in popularity since the tournament and it's killing my rain vibes

[cyan smelt]

Pengy's team

[polar canyon]

I saw the team

Hooray for unusual fun pokemon showing up

Not so hooray for stall showing up

But still cool

[cyan smelt]

I've seen some peli comps run weezing to shut down opposing weather and once you switch out weezing rain usually activates

[real prairie]

Yeah Mexico regional

[polar canyon]

Playing around with weezing is fun even if you're not using it to play around a gimmick that only works if weezing is on the field

[real prairie]

Yeah downside for me is I want swift swim and stamina lol

[polar canyon]

I wanna go back to weezing ability shield koraidon overriding rain

But I think that wouldn't work in current restricted meta

[cyan smelt]

You can run weezing and scarf typhlosion

[real prairie]

It's still okay with CSR

As horses don't lose their abilities

[polar canyon]

I didn't know that

That's kinda bs lmao why would they do that

[cyan smelt]

Oh in restricted meta

[polar canyon]

No lore reason for that

[cyan smelt]

I'm dumb

[real prairie]

Nah we were discussing both

Started talking Weezing then moved to Weezing koraidon

[polar canyon]

Ability shield incin is some of the most fun I've had in 2024 reg h

Mainly because it's just funny seeing popular set leads crumble

But other than that it doesn't actually bring that much to the table

[cyan smelt]

It's fun confusing gholdengo with strange steam

[polar canyon]

Intimidating ape

And weezing + something else leaving archa with no rain

[cyan smelt]

And no stamina or sturdy

[polar canyon]

I could try weezing toedscruel but I don't think it would be fun for me

Not in the sense that I'm above spore strats or something

But I don't think it seems fun to run a strat that only works when weezing is out

[cyan smelt]

I think toedscruel is useless once weezing goes down and they always target weezing

[polar canyon]

Exactly

Same deal as regigigas

[cyan smelt]

And toedscruel is useless if something outspeeds like whims or talonflame

[polar canyon]

Eh what's whims gonna do

Do they run taunt in reg h?

[cyan smelt]

Sometimes, but usually they set up tailwind

[polar canyon]

Sporing gholdengo sounds like the funniest part

Yknow I wonder if eviolite toedscool is bulkier

[tiny karma]

Pokémon No. 948: Toedscool

Types

Ground/Grass

Abilities

Mycelium Might

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

40/40/35/50/100/70

Total

335

Sableye version 4.28.4

[polar canyon]

Absolutely not worth it

I'd kill for an excuse to use that silly looking guy

[cyan smelt]

Just run wolfey's weezing toedscruel team

[polar canyon]

I am not actually gonna do weezing toedscruel we were just discussing how that seems not great right

[molten oasis]

https://pokepast.es/26170287315273f6 might be cooking with this just need to figure out the sun/tr mu

[halcyon basalt]

Is there something wrong with my team? I can't get a single hit in online battles, I'm kind of new to pokemon comp and I'm just getting stomped.

[solid frigate]

a lot of it

Reg J double battle right?

[halcyon basalt]

Yeah

I thought most of these pokemon were good, I got through the entire game with them

[solid frigate]

back to your drawing board

what is the core idea besides they are good

[cyan smelt]

Generally not a good idea to use your playthrough team

[halcyon basalt]

wym

[solid frigate]

i want to understand your core idea on the team you are trying to do

Then we can disect everything and build it from scratch

[halcyon basalt]

I'm trying to rank up in comp doubles cause i wanna get into comp

[solid frigate]

i feel like you can read throught the pin messages to learn more,but here are the links for that

Here is a list of all of the resources I find most helpful when playing/learning VGC:

https://www.vgcguide.com/ (Helpful website for basics and also to get your feet wet)

https://www.pikalytics.com/ (Shows you usage data and helps you build Pokémon)

https://nerd-of-now.github.io/NCP-VGC-Damage-Calculator/ (Damage calculator that is very helpful when building teams or reflecting on games)

https://youtube.com/c/CybertronVGC (Best channel for daily VGC content, guiding you through the thought process you need for success)

https://victoryroadvgc.com/ (Tournament results, team reports and breakdowns, and rental codes can be found here)

https://twitter.com/VGCPastes - Tournament and high ranked teams

https://twitter.com/vgccorner - Helpful Twitter account that posts in-depth EV spreads and ideas about competitive pokemon

There are dozens of other resources, some of which are in the pinned messages of this channel. But these IMO are the best places to start absorbing knowledge and getting to a place where you're comfortable with VGC

[halcyon basalt]

yk i feel like i just said something dumb, i wanna have good type coverage, maybe pick an ace pokemon and build off of that

[solid frigate]

there isn't a definitive Ace Pokemon in VGC,the teams all have a centric core inside their ideas

i think you can focus on Miraidon

and then build it from there

[halcyon basalt]

i was gonna switch it up to koraidon and tinkaton

since miraidon just gets one shot

[cyan smelt]

Tinkaton is not good

[halcyon basalt]

oh

[solid frigate]

Miraidon can just nuke stuff

and if you want a fighting chance,you need two restricteds

[cyan smelt]

Your team needs speed control to enable miraidon

[solid frigate]

which are box legendaries

[solid frigate]

one step at a time,but yes this is true

[halcyon basalt]

i just looked up the restricteds and the legendary dogs are on there

can i use either of them?

[solid frigate]

Miraidon+Dogs are fine,but rn the best pairs for Miraidon is Lunala or Calyrex Ice Rider

[cyan smelt]

Sorry I'll let you help torrent, I might hurt more than I help

[bold geode]

Miraidon Zam is goated

[halcyon basalt]

can i use Koraidon and Zacian?

[solid frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-pokemon-shield-pokemon-plush-plush-plushie-gif-22905345

[solid frigate]

you can but its too clunky

[halcyon basalt]

ah

[cyan smelt]

Koraidon csr is good

[halcyon basalt]

the guy i was going against was using megearna and annihilape and he wiped my whole team

[solid frigate]

true,2nd place in worlds and rather easier to pilot

[halcyon basalt]

csr?

[solid frigate]

Calyrex Shadow Rider

[halcyon basalt]

oh

[solid frigate]

but yes Kal0s is right on it being good

but which restricted do you truly want to play

[halcyon basalt]

probably zamazenta or zacian

i like the dogs a lot

[solid frigate]

Zamazenta would be more comfortable to use in the meta,its best partners are Calyrex Shadow Rider,Miraidon,Kyogre

[halcyon basalt]

where idk where i would even get a kyogre so miraidon it is

[solid frigate]

Miraidon and Zama then

i wanna see how you gonna build them two first

you can build them in pokemon showdown and if there's any error i will help fix it

[halcyon basalt]

yeah ive played a good bit of showdown

Tuah (Walking Wake) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature

• Hydro Pump
• Draco Meteor
• Flamethrower
• Flip Turn

Rocky (Arcanine-Hisui) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rock Head
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Head Smash
• Flare Blitz
• Extreme Speed
• Stealth Rock

Evil (Scream Tail) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Calm Mind
• Boomburst
• Flamethrower
• Dazzling Gleam

Drama (Ogerpon) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Ivy Cudgel
• Knock Off
• U-turn
• Encore

Lesbin (Scizor) (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Bullet Punch
• U-turn
• Knock Off
• Close Combat

Barn (Iron Hands) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Atk / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Swords Dance
• Drain Punch
• Protect
• Ice Punch

this was my singles team for gen9 ou

[solid frigate]

what i want is that i want to see what is your Miraidon and Zamazenta builds+EVs to show what's your understanding then we can fiz that

[halcyon basalt]

oh okay

[solid frigate]

just show it in here with showdown pokepaste

[halcyon basalt]

https://pokepast.es/c789babddef9a4b6

[solid frigate]

alright we have a few things to address on here,we'll talk about Miraidon first.

Firstly Miraidon can keep Draco Meteor and Edrift,however the set is wrong since you need it to have an offensive pressure for the bike instead of setting up
Second,Miraidon doesn't need Heavy Duty Boots since hazards are not common in doubles,usually you run these items:

Choice Specs (Boost Special Attack by 1.5x but lock into first move you used,good for immediate pressure and damage,loses a bit of flexibility)
Assault Vest (Boost Special Defense by 1.5 but lock all the status move you can use,great for bulky Miraidon builds)
Choice Scarf (Boost Speed by 1.5 but same drawback with Specs, good for Enabler Miraidons)

For this team lets do Specs since its the easiest to use.

Third,Miraidon's tera type can be either tera Electric for discharge or anything that is not specs set,however,Tera Fairy is more common for normal Miraidon players who plays Specs Miraidon and allow you to be neutral against Calyrex Ice Rider.

Miraidon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Hadron Engine
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 156 HP / 12 Def / 164 SpA / 4 SpD / 172 Spe
Modest Nature

• Electro Drift
• Draco Meteor
• Volt Switch
• Dazzling Gleam

for Example my Miraidon Spread and moveset,EVs are calculated to live at least 3 Glacial Lance hit in Reflect+Tera Fairy without losing too much offenses,speed is calculated to not need to guess over 135 Speed ties

@halcyon basalt

[halcyon basalt]

that looks good, not sure how im gonna get those exact evs though

[solid frigate]

you mean how to build it in Cart?

[halcyon basalt]

cart?

[solid frigate]

SV mainline game cartage

[halcyon basalt]

yeah

i mean i wouldnt cheat

[solid frigate]

remember,each vitamins and Mochi(Besides Fresh Start Mochi) are 10 EV points,Each feather is 1 EV point

[oak finch]

changing EVs is very easy in SV ^ thankfully

[solid frigate]

exactly

if you grind enough

[halcyon basalt]

i dont really have a lot of time throughout my days since i work around 10 hours 😢

ill try to do a bit every day

[cyan smelt]

You could ask someone to do it here, I'm sure a middleman would be able to help

[halcyon basalt]

its the sacrifice i makes to buy black bolt boxes, but in all reality im sure ill be able to whip up a good team

my singles team in showdown is pretty good, i <3 my scizor

[solid frigate]

i'll talk about Zamazenta next,which there is more to talk about

Due to being a supportive Restricted,Zamazenta usually has utility over its moveset,Wide Guard is a solid choice to the amount of spread moves in this format,could protect Miraidon and other mons in your team,Body Press and Behemoth Bash/Heavy Slam(For Flutter Mane or Light Pokemon cuz Zama is this fat)
Don't forget to round it up with Protect.

Zamazenta usually also wants a defensive tera like Tera Grass,Dragon and Ghost. usually prefers Dragon for the Matchups against Koraidon.

Zamazenta-Crowned @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Level: 50
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 84 HP / 4 Atk / 236 Def / 84 SpD / 100 Spe
Impish Nature

• Body Press
• Heavy Slam
• Wide Guard
• Protect

for Example
Zamazenta Speed Stat is enough to outspeed Scarf Modest Chi Yu's in the format if Its knocked off, while also has enough bulk to live Life Orb Close Combat and from Jolly Koraidon and Tera Dragon to help against tera Fire Koraidons Flare Blitz.

[polar canyon]

A lot of the stats are gonna be these weirdly specific numbers

[lofty tartan]

Print ability patches. I wish the cap wasn't so low

I've got 9m pokedollars and a surplus of patches

[solid frigate]

also that lol

[cyan smelt]

Yeah the item printer is good like that

[solid frigate]

https://x.com/torrentaegisvgc/status/1969260010837348799?s=46

TorrentAegisVGC/Morris (@TorrentAegisVGC)

I decided to actually play a little bit of Regulation J but I am in a Kamen Rider Streaming Phase again and don’t have a team for that cuz I was taking a break after GC

My smartass brain said,Why not play Ho-Oh for real this time

X · Sep 20, 2025, 4:39 AM

[gentle badger]

I have the desire to make my Precious Venusaur Viable for PvP.

[solid frigate]

Singles or doubles

[gentle badger]

doubles

what Smogon tier is Venu?

[solid frigate]

Smogon doesnt apply to VGC

And currently Venu is just a Chlorophyll Sleep Powder stuff

[waxen dock]

pvp?

[waxen dock]

i dont need to know ts tera type and marks

i need to kno its set

and no venusaur isnt good in vgc

[oak finch]

Unite mentioned 👀

[strange fjord]

just wait till we get that mega venu. maybe we'll see that chonky boi in vgc again

[molten oasis]

Ok for anyone playing reg J, is it just reg I but like Arceus?

[cyan smelt]

Basically Arceus and final gambit ape with magearna

[molten oasis]

Ok

[lofty tartan]

So it's lame

[cyan smelt]

Well it's basically just reg I but with mythicals allowed and most mythicals are weaker than restricted

[oak finch]

everyones waiting for champions, mythicals never interested me personally

im still practicing I for regionals

[lofty tartan]

Regionals are Reg H right now.

[oak finch]

my regional is in January

gambling that itll be I by then

[lofty tartan]

That's... Not a good idea

[oak finch]

the 2026 season info says H will end in November

[lofty tartan]

It ends December.

But there's no telling what the next regulation is

[strange fjord]

Wonder what they're gonna have for next regulation

[oak finch]

like i said, im gambling itll be restricted or just I by then, im happy with my experience with non restricted formats so focusing on I rn

i kind of hope itll be I at my regional because its more interseting to me

[strange fjord]

going to vegas. gonna hope i can avoid all the dire gambling ill have to experience

[cyan smelt]

And sneasler

[strange fjord]

exactly what i meant

[cyan smelt]

I figured

I'm not a joke getter

[oak finch]

better hold some loaded dice

10x bomb maushold

[waxen dock]

Not it ends in november

But since i dont think there is an event in december so thats why ig

[oak finch]

"the subsequent regulation" made me think it just meant I since thats "next"

[waxen dock]

I knew it wasnt champions reg

[oak finch]

but im aware that isnt confirmed

[waxen dock]

I just knew it

I think it will be reg i

Or reg g or f

[oak finch]

yeah i dont see why it wouldnt just be I from like Jan-March then champions launches

[waxen dock]

But probably reg i

[oak finch]

no silly mythical plays for us

[waxen dock]

You forfot april

Forgot

[oak finch]

idk when champions launches

[strange fjord]

was there a date? thought it only said early 2026

[oak finch]

yeah i just assumed we'd get final info at pokemon day then launch a little after so theres a bit of time before worlds

[waxen dock]

I would guesa it will launch somewhere jan-feb but it wont be the official format until the reg after h will end

[oak finch]

im practicing I currently, the format for my regional will be released and ill try finalise a team early jan i guess

im just using caly shadow and zama on cart ladder rn

[cyan smelt]

Have to decide soonish if it's worth taking a weekend trip to Auckland next January

[oak finch]

if i can ever get a match, im waiting 10-20 mins and multiple tries to get matches in ultra ball league currently

[cyan smelt]

I want to so I can avoid Australia day garbage

[oak finch]

my hotel was $1000 for the SPC weekend good luck 😭

[waxen dock]

Youll have the entire month of december to practice it dont practice it till december i think you sgould ibstead practice for reg h

Also practocing for reg h gives you better chance at the gc

Which gives a lot of points

But i still think they need to do the old gc

[oak finch]

true, im not really trying for points this season since theres no locals in my city and only one regional in the country

[waxen dock]

The old gc was good

[oak finch]

hoping to train this season and next season do some australia tour for regionals

[waxen dock]

I think the god thing about the old gc is that it gives everyone a good chance

[cyan smelt]

Well the price for hotels on Google seems cheap but the flights are gonna be the killer, it'll probably cost me like $1000 all up so idt that's worth it

[oak finch]

this is my second year in VGC, i did TCG from 2017-22 though

[waxen dock]

Cuz if you have a player that is vetter than you at your region but youre still good it doesnt matter that youre still good

[waxen dock]

For me it will be my first year of real vgc

Last year was more like showdown and gc

Not trying to geg ponts

[strange fjord]

vgc squad!

[oak finch]

this will be my first in person vgc event ever at the SPC, even though my city is larger than multiple US cities with regionals lol

[waxen dock]

But this season i do aim for worlds

[oak finch]

we dont even get locals 😔

[oak finch]

all that to do 4 hours of vgc and maybe 64 people show up

[strange fjord]

we love fantasizing about winning a regional! it might happen

[oak finch]

its being held in a card shop and they said spaces are under 100 in the discord

[waxen dock]

For me too

But i dont have regional in my country

So

Only gc for points

[oak finch]

i went to auckland regional 2017 for TCG seniors, last event i went to

[waxen dock]

But i dod get 75 points from gc

[oak finch]

GC is good

[strange fjord]

regional travel is tough. if you dont have one close, itll be a plane ticket and hotel/air bnb cost

[waxen dock]

What place did you get?

[waxen dock]

Fr thats why i can go only for one regionals

[oak finch]

I didnt do the most recent one I was away on a work trip sadly lol

[waxen dock]

If i can even go to onr

Cuz i have school

[oak finch]

this spc is gonna be my final test for if i really enjoy and am built for the competitve scene, if i enjoy it i wanna go all in for 2027 season

[waxen dock]

Dont you have loclas in your area?

[oak finch]

nope, the only locals in new zealand are in auckland

[waxen dock]

Oh

[oak finch]

if you dont live in that one city there is ZERO comp vgc scene

but theres local TCG events multiple times a week 😭

[waxen dock]

In my country there are vgc players

Not a lot but still

And srill no locals

If i had locals i wouls guess like 20 people would come to it

[oak finch]

yeah auckland runs 2-3 cups a week at multiple stores, maybe 20+ events a month for VGC. if i want to get my points from cups ill have to do multiple weekend trips to those during the season

basically a five figure exercise to attempt to qualify for worlds

[waxen dock]

I can qualify for worlds only with gc's

Its probably hard

But there was someone that managed to do it

[oak finch]

wow

in Oceania you only need like 600 to be top 20 for worlds

[cyan smelt]

But there aren't many events and they scrapped ocic

[oak finch]

yeah im worried this auckland SPC will be like 30 people and have no CP for grabs basically

[next stump]

wait the auckland special is capped at 100?

[lofty tartan]

And reg H is through the end of November

So we're stuck outside in a massive line to get inside the center and they're gonna start on time.

In 2 minutes.

With a large amount of players outside

[stable forge]

yall is ice rider worth getting?

for a trick room team

i have no idea what my last mon should be

[lofty tartan]

This event is like super jacked up

Lmao I just got my round one pairing standing outside

[waxen dock]

i meant that reg h ends in nove,mber

[lofty tartan]

Reg H goes through to the end of November. As noted above.

[waxen dock]

ice rider? i think you need calyrex

[lofty tartan]

Read the second photo

[stable forge]

ye thats what i meant

im pretty sure i chose the shadow one in swsh so itll be a pain to get tho

[lofty tartan]

This is absolutely bananas

They're funneling people one at a time up three stair cases

This is dumb as hell.

I heard you like lines so we put a line in your line that you need to walk in a line to get in line for

[solid frigate]

Sponsored by Redmagic 10 Pro

[lofty tartan]

It's a good phone

[next stump]

man this is a rough start

[waxen dock]

why?

whats your record?

[next stump]

it’s delayed by an hour

[bold geode]

Month break confirmed?

@foggy lodge bruh we got Mott R1 on stream LMAO

[foggy lodge]

LMFAO

HE IS PLAYING DOZO NOW

what shitmon went away for this

Oh the Sylveon

You know what I fuck with this

Nooo I don't like this play

He is 100% switching to Incin

I would have prefered switching into Incin

[static dock]

Making a full ghost team this is my first mon:

Annihilape

Level: 100 (but will use standard battle rule so 50)

Ability: Defiant

Nature: Adamant

Held item: Metronome

Moves: Drain Punch, Cross Chop, Rage Fist, Earthquake

Tell me what y’all think

[waxen dock]

no.

just no

[static dock]

Is there anything to change to make it better?

[waxen dock]

just copy a annihalpe set from some team

and change it to the set you like

[static dock]

If you’re saying I copied it I didn’t know

[static dock]

Oh ok

I’m also working on a prankster Sableye set

[lofty tartan]

Lost my round one on a double protect from my opp in the late hours of game 3

Shucks

[bold geode]

Flamigo cam

Top 10 Flamigo moment

[foggy lodge]

P2 is so dead on this meta

[bold geode]

Not my favorite duck

I'm using Scyther fuck it

[foggy lodge]

Well this lead is horrible

Free NP

Oh its a tie goddamn

[real prairie]

Commentator talking out of their arse

"can't use pollen puff on gholdengo due to it's good as gold ability"

[next stump]

did they really say that lol

[real prairie]

Yeah for a good like 2 minutes

[bold geode]

Hey keep killing it Dillon

[waxen dock]

you can't use heal pulse but ithink you can do pollen puff\

anyway

should i have revival blessing on my pawmot insteads of fake out or protect?

[real prairie]

You can, literally first turn of the next game they did it 🤣

[waxen dock]

heal pilse?

[real prairie]

Pollen puff

[waxen dock]

so yeah

i said it can

since ghold is immune to satus moves

[real prairie]

Yeah I was confirming

[bold geode]

@chrome knot Da Wei on stream

[chrome knot]

Dawei

[bold geode]

Wild Dawei sighting on Pittsburgh stream R4

[chrome knot]

Dawei fan club yay!!!

[bold geode]

Dawei fan club moment

[foggy lodge]

New teams on stream

[cobalt tapir]

[foggy lodge]

Dawei is using Wolfey's Incineroar

Lol

[cobalt tapir]

good to know bc i had no idea who dawei was

[molten oasis]

No way someone’s using wolfes incin?

[forest arrow]

That was a goated end game

[oak finch]

free EVs

[lofty tartan]

We've had like 3 or four New England players on stream so far. Dawei was one of them

[bold geode]

Chat I had to train someone at work, did Dawei win or

[cobalt tapir]

he did carthwheels

[foggy lodge]

Yeah she won

[bold geode]

Donnelly on stream let's go

YIKES

Rough turn for Donnelly

[foggy lodge]

wdym Greninja dies from a single drain punch from jolly ape

[robust arrow]

dark is weak to fighting

greninja is super frail

72 hp and 67 def

[foggy lodge]

goddamn that mon is horrible lol

[lean ridge]

Haven’t been watching it today but there’s a Greninja??

[foggy lodge]

it won on stream

is 5-0 rn

[lean ridge]

That’s fire I’ll have to rewatch the stream to see it played

[foggy lodge]

36 Atk Annihilape Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 138-164 (93.2 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

most likey was a roll

[real prairie]

But why is it not protean lol

[robust arrow]

It might have been tbh, i was not watching

[real prairie]

It wasn't

[robust arrow]

I just know Greninja can easily fold to any super effective hit

[real prairie]

If it were protean it wouldn't have been a SE hit

[robust arrow]

Depends if it had switched typing or nah tbh

Protean doesn't override until you click a move

[real prairie]

It rain danced so it should have gone mono water

[robust arrow]

so it's torrent ?

[real prairie]

Yeah

[robust arrow]

I am surprised someone brought Gren in a tournament

I legit never saw Gren in gen 9 doubles

[real prairie]

It got 2nd place at another regional last week so it's not a huge shock

[stone trellis]

I ate an entire 15-piece hot bucket at KFC. I ate around 7 Blazikens.

[robust arrow]

what ? which one, i wanna see the results ngl

[real prairie]

God now I want hot wings FFS

[robust arrow]

we're talking reg J with mythicals ?

[real prairie]

Monetary, Mexico

[robust arrow]

Ok I see the team

It's not the regulation with restricted or mythical tho

[stone trellis]

It's Reg H.

It's the current regulation for tournaments.

[robust arrow]

oh really so the official ladder is not the same as the one used in tournament

That's interesting

[foggy lodge]

yes because TPCi hates us

[stone trellis]

I like Reg J.

It gave me an opportunity to test out more Reg I teams.

[molten oasis]

I will be doing a pokeball to masterball with Kian’s zacogre team cuz I want the rewards for GC teams but, I hate the way they handled this format

[robust arrow]

gl the climb can be hard if you are just starting

don't get discouraged learning is fun

[molten oasis]

I’ve been playing for 3 years

Just doing it for fun

[robust arrow]

yes you play the game, but the double battles is not just the basic game

[molten oasis]

I prioritize reg h

[molten oasis]

I’ve been playing VGC for 3 years, I played through all of SV competitive

[stone trellis]

You know, the other day I blew through a Rest CM Pagos with Ogerpon and Lando.

[robust arrow]

Oh so you compete in tournaments wow

What was your last tournament if I can ask ?

[molten oasis]

And why do you need to know this information? I don’t go to tournaments cuz I’m broke

Masterball tier is the first stepping stone for most people

I’m way past that I’m just doing the grind for fun

[robust arrow]

Well you say you play VGC

Isn't VGC the tournament championship ?

[molten oasis]

Yes but you don’t have to go to tournaments. Usually the doubles format in the game is the current VGC format

Showdown also follows this

I try to go to tournaments, I went to NAIC last year and did ok

But they’re expensive and I don’t make a whole bunch of money for travel

[robust arrow]

You are confusing me ngl

[molten oasis]

[robust arrow]

Is VGC the championship format ?

vs in-game ladder being in-game ladder

and showdown being showdown ladder

[molten oasis]

yes, VGC is the official pokemon competitive format

[robust arrow]

oh so you just play the switch or showdown I see I see

[molten oasis]

Yes

[robust arrow]

you are not competing in the circuit

[molten oasis]

No cuz I’m broke

[robust arrow]

i know some here actually do so I was curious

[molten oasis]

Yeah they got the money to travel lol

[stone trellis]

What two Pokemon on your team are definitely doing this type of shit?

[robust arrow]

Probably Terapagos and Heatran

[foggy lodge]

it doesn't load for me tf is it

[molten oasis]

Urshifu and chien pao

Or zacian and chien pao

[stone trellis]

Ultra Ego Vegeta giving a fade to Trunks.

[foggy lodge]

Lmfao

[robust arrow]

jeez im climbing today 7 wins a row

turtle is just absurd

[molten oasis]

I guess in reg h it would be a9 chomp for me

[steady hare]

what's the best held item for Indeedee-F trickroom

[robust arrow]

Psychic Seed or Rocky Helmet

[dense latch]

or safety goggles

[foggy lodge]

Goggles, psychic seed, rocky helmet

Sash has been used if you want to ensure that it has to take two attacks

[robust arrow]

Safety Goggles to me always is an answer for Amoonguss

It doesnt scream Trick Room

[foggy lodge]

Depends on what the team needs

[steady hare]

my stat spread allows it to survive Wood hammer in grassy terrain

[molten oasis]

Most indeedee f teams are tr teams

[steady hare]

mostly going for a support and trick room setter to support my armarouge

and semi-support Slowbro with psychic terrain

[robust arrow]

Indeedee Armarouge is good duo

just a shame psychic is countered by incin

that knock off goes hard i always feel bad

[molten oasis]

They’re alright

[steady hare]

I got guts Conkeldurr to take care of incineroar

[robust arrow]

you've never been on the receiving end of psyspam i think lmao

[molten oasis]

No I have

[robust arrow]

indeedee sets the terrain

[stone trellis]

Power Herb Meteor Beam.

[robust arrow]

it boosts the move and it makes it spread

they have very good synergy , is more then just alright

[molten oasis]

I know

Ok do you see people on Armadeedee rn?

It’s alright because there’s better mons

[foggy lodge]

I see Espathra

Lmfao

[robust arrow]

in Reg with mythical powercreep is a thing Drago

[foggy lodge]

Armarouge is non existent in legendaries formats

[molten oasis]

Armarouge sucks in those formats just play shadow rider

[robust arrow]

ya the cut is just about the best Mons

powercreep doesnt mean they suck btw

[molten oasis]

Yes because that’s how a competitive game works

[steady hare]

probably going with psychic seed, currently I got my indeedee on relaxed nature though, should I switch to calm?

[molten oasis]

You play the best options if you want to win

[robust arrow]

no, you want synergy and good matchups

[molten oasis]

Armarouge was a strong mon early in SV

[robust arrow]

slapping best options without care for synergy leaves you vulnerable to specialized teams

[molten oasis]

Correct, you use the best mons and find synergy with those mons

[robust arrow]

i dont teambuild like this personnally

i prefer building a strong team that has a lort of synergy

vs default mode best mons go brrr

i like to understand a metagame rather to be precise

that is what ticks my brain

[bold geode]

I feel like this is just common sense, why are we LOL

[robust arrow]

i don't think it is common sense for newer players imo

[foggy lodge]

i like csr i like incin i like rilla i like urshifu

[molten oasis]

To use the best options in a competitive game is not common sense???

[bold geode]

Or common sense generally
But of course newer players aren't gonna know it's common sense

[stone trellis]

You didn't have me with that first one.

[bold geode]

They don't know anything so

[robust arrow]

if it is as simple as using best options, we wouldnt have seen different teams at worlds

i see plenty of different teams in tournaments with different strategies

[molten oasis]

Lunala and koraidon were like top 5 restricteds in the format

[stone trellis]

Do I replace Feint on Iron Valiant with Taunt or should I keep it?

[robust arrow]

that, to me, suggest a very different reading about that metagame from players competing in the circuit

[molten oasis]

There’s a decent bunch of top tier mons usually

[stone trellis]

I'd argue they are probably #4 and #5.

No idea who's higher.

[molten oasis]

Yeah was thinking around there

[stone trellis]

They're both quite flexible and support their team a lot.

[molten oasis]

The calys and miraidon are above them

[stone trellis]

One does it more directly, the other one does it by just being there.

[stone trellis]

And Zamazenta's back down to #6.

[molten oasis]

There’s lots of strategies but they’re usually centered around the strongest mons in the format

[robust arrow]

competitive Pokemon has too many variables to be cookie cutter metagame like some other games

[molten oasis]

Yep

I think it’s like

Mirai CSR CIR Lunala Korai Zama Pagos Kyogre then Groudon and Zacian are fighting for 9th

[stone trellis]

It doesn't have the craziest damage output, the best supporting movepool or ridiculous Speed.

That's what holds Zama back.

The bulk is good, but it won't help it win a 3V1.

[robust arrow]

Zama goes crazy in singles

[molten oasis]

It’s damage output is perfectly serviceable

[stone trellis]

At least Kyogre's won a regional in masters

[molten oasis]

It’s just not CSR or Miraidon damage output n

[robust arrow]

been riding dog for a wee bit in OU

[stone trellis]

Or even Ice Rider.

[robust arrow]

big fan of it's piercing power into stall

[molten oasis]

Ogre still hard struggles into miraidon but maybe it’s above Pagos

I personally believe zacian and groudon are above Pagos but that’s a hot take so

[robust arrow]

Pagos is very positional based in Doubles

[stone trellis]

They are.

Terapagos is a fraud.

[robust arrow]

If you remove what they dislike it runs away with the game

[stone trellis]

It suffers from the same problems as Zamazenta, but it also offers no support at all.

[robust arrow]

my pagos offers some support

[stone trellis]

And its typing isn't stellar (pun very intended).

[molten oasis]

Pagos should just be cm sets usually

[foggy lodge]

Normal is crazy good

[molten oasis]

Or maybe specs

Yeah normal is a perfectly serviceable typing

[robust arrow]

nah

[stone trellis]

Until a single Koraidon, Zama or Shifu pop up.

[foggy lodge]

One weakness on a 110 or around there HP mon

[molten oasis]

If Tera’d

[foggy lodge]

I can't believe that my Pokémon has weaknesses on my type chart based game

[stone trellis]

Its defenses are 110.

[robust arrow]

i did not run a single calm mind set this regulation on my Pagos

[stone trellis]

Unlike with Ice Rider, it can't Tera out of its weaknesses.

[molten oasis]

Shifu plays Tera water

And I’m like 90% sure it only plays Tera water

maybe grass sometimes, or stellar

[foggy lodge]

Nah shifu has run a lot of teras

[robust arrow]

You don't need to

[foggy lodge]

Ghost poison grass stellar water

I liked poison for Zama MU

[molten oasis]

In reg I tho

[robust arrow]

You tank anything at 100% health

[molten oasis]

I feel like that guy was usually water or stellar unless scarfed

In which it was ghost, or water

[stone trellis]

Band runs Grass or Ghost, right?

[molten oasis]

I never really saw grass or poison Tera

[stone trellis]

Scarf runs Water.

[molten oasis]

Idk what the band sets ran but I remember ghost

[foggy lodge]

Yeah they also run ghost

The MiraiNala team ran ghost

[bold geode]

So here's the deal right
When people generally say use the best mons, generally it's kind of more meaning the meta whether it be different archetypes or whatever
Like for example, don't bring Lechonk to a regional, it's not one of the best

[robust arrow]

but to call it common sense is a logical fallacy imo

i come from singles mostly

[molten oasis]

The main ones were water stellar and ghost then

[robust arrow]

and you can prevail with very niche teams

if you planned them to beat the metagame

[molten oasis]

I think I saw a few grass and poison but not like a bunch

[foggy lodge]

Let me remember uhh

[bold geode]

Yeah but the thing is a newer player is usually starting out with no knowledge whatsoever and like from personal experience, a lot of people have absurd or bad expectations coming in or have a bit of an ego so like
It's common sense to us but for someone without the knowledge that we have, they won't know that it's common sense

[robust arrow]

i have not seen any Heatran this past few months and to me it's been fairly anti-meta

so im unsure how I can get decent success not using the best Mons

[foggy lodge]

I remember steel a bit for fairy and ice rider

[robust arrow]

when my team is built around Pagos

Which isn't the staple restricte

[foggy lodge]

I miss Pagos Heatran teams

I could use Scream Tail there

[bold geode]

Yeah but for example, Terapagos is a certain archetype/concept to build around

That is still meta

[robust arrow]

I wouldn't call it meta, I'm the only using it this season

I have 117 games, none of them i encountered enemy Pagos

or Heatran

[foggy lodge]

You are playing reg J right

[robust arrow]

i am playing on switch

[foggy lodge]

Yeah those two are super uncommon there

[stone trellis]

I beat a Terapagos yesterday.

[robust arrow]

just got 7 wins in a row and I'm at one of my best peak rank wise

[molten oasis]

Pagos is kinda mid

[robust arrow]

I struggle going past 1000 end of month normally

[stone trellis]

It was Lefties Rest CM.

[bold geode]

Also one thing to add is like
Some people don't use the best OF the best simply out of comfortability with other things
For example in double restricted, some may use Terapagos over Shadow Rider simply cuz they're more comfortable with Terapagos
The turtle is still meta and good, but it's not as good as Shadow Rider
But still using it is ok

[molten oasis]

Was it a sleep talk set?

[robust arrow]

I use Shadow Rider too

It's perfect switch in defensively

[stone trellis]

Yeah, but it never pulled a single Tera Starstorm.

[molten oasis]

Lmfao

[stone trellis]

So it was free eats for GOATflame and Lando.

I beat him 3-0, I never even revealed Ice Rider.

[bold geode]

Basically speaking on saying using the best mons, people usually refer more to like "hey it's not a great idea to use Gumshoos" or some shit like that

[molten oasis]

There’s a pool of good meta mons you typically chose from when teambuilding

[tiny karma]

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike [Fighting/Water]

Resists (0.5x)

Bug, Dark, Fire, Ice, Rock, Steel, Water

Neutral damage

Dragon, Fighting, Ghost, Ground, Normal, Poison, Stellar

Weak (2x)

Electric, Fairy, Flying, Grass, Psychic

Sableye version 4.28.4

[stone trellis]

That pool consists of:

• Ice Rider
• Everything that supports it

[foggy lodge]

Oh at worlds some people used tera normal shifu lol

[robust arrow]

i think teambuilding is much more complex personnally

[stone trellis]

For what purpose?

[bold geode]

Like people usually do look for the synergies still, but there's like
There's a group of mons you usually pull from, and another pool you just don't unless you REALLY need a VERY SPECIFIC niche, which usually doesn't happen often

[robust arrow]

especially since in Doubles the EVs are often fine tuned

vs Singles where it's 252/252

[foggy lodge]

Inmune to astral barrage

And pretty much that was it

[stone trellis]

Right.

[bold geode]

Oh yeah it can be very complex, like thing is though what I'm speaking on rn is kind of like the basics right

Like it's basically the "Teambuilding 101" handbook

[molten oasis]

Wild

[bold geode]

I could go into like EVs and IVs and all the other complicated shit too but like
Basically what I'm touching on is sort of the first chapter of that book if that makes sense

[dense latch]

iirc navjit joshi used tera normal shifu last worlds too

[foggy lodge]

Yeah on the eleki team

[bold geode]

Also I will say, starting out with 252/252 is valid AF

[foggy lodge]

My guess is its for CSR and Flutter

[dense latch]

yea he did mention that in the team report

but he also said he never clicked it once at worlds
it helped for mind games though

[foggy lodge]

lol

[stone trellis]

Should I replace Discharge on my Miraidon with Parabolic Charge?

[robust arrow]

they ain't complex, they're just fine tuned if you know what you want. but that's something most players including both of us are far from being good at

i leave that to the pros

aint no way im do 100s of calcs just to figure out a sweet spot on EVs

just apply jamie boyt rational

go for bulk = more damage

[dense latch]

nah

[stone trellis]

It doesn't kill Kyogre with anything other than EDrift since it's AV.

[foggy lodge]

Jamie Boyt my goat

[molten oasis]

Boyt cooks some wild shit dude

[foggy lodge]

I feel like Jamie Boyt creates sets that are better than people think

[stone trellis]

Why not?

[dense latch]

it's gonna do 2 damage

[molten oasis]

Boyt played av pao in reg g or f I think

[foggy lodge]

F I think

Then it came back for reg I

[stone trellis]

Fair.

[molten oasis]

Yep

[foggy lodge]

He also was the one that started the Brute Bonnet trend

[stone trellis]

I wonder if Helping Hand non-Tera Discharge OHKOs CSR.

I know for a fact that Helping Hand OR Tera Dark Snarl pick up an OHKO.

Stacking both probably does 76-80% to Lunala.

[molten oasis]

Did he? Nice

[solid frigate]

I fucking missed the Greninja Game

[foggy lodge]

Too bad that that round is lost in the space and time and can never be watched again

[bold geode]

What happened

Why are pairings hidden?

Oh nvm
Bunch of DCs

[robust arrow]

He is the one I learned from regarding EV sets

[bold geode]

That kind of scares me low-key

[stone trellis]

I kind of learned EVs on my own.

[bold geode]

Like it scares me but it doesn't

[foggy lodge]

What was Jamie running at Frankfurt

[bold geode]

Some bullshit probably

[foggy lodge]

Magnezone Salamence and AV Sneasler

[molten oasis]

What the fuck

[bold geode]

I was about to say no way but it's Boyt

[foggy lodge]

I have no idea what AV Sneasler is for

And he used Slowbro Torterra at the GC

[molten oasis]

I can see mence being like, fine

[foggy lodge]

Welcome back Dondozo Ting-Lu

[solid frigate]

Truly peak Moveset I love it

[bold geode]

@next stump heard there was a lot of DCs?

[molten oasis]

I lost to a Tera ground gyarados that feels awful

[bold geode]

https://x.com/nicholasrubingh/status/1969423424985371025?t=1DeTiYhVm1uoUL1pIsgEHQ&s=19

Nich Rubingh (TheMismatcher)🔜Worlds! (@nicholasrubingh)

The docs at Pittsburgh are Switch 1 docs- you can use the Switch 2, but if you have a controller or anything plugged in, it draws too much power to charge, and it can cause the internet to disconnect.

It made me DC round 1 and wouldn’t reconnect until I took the controller off

X · Sep 20, 2025, 3:28 PM

@molten oasis Hootie is 6-0 too, sick

[molten oasis]

Nice

Probably hasn’t run into hippowdon tho

[bold geode]

Yeah good thing that's not meta huh

[foggy lodge]

Bascu

Aqua jet shadow ball

[molten oasis]

Yep

[dense latch]

sash basc’s rise in usage is not something my miracle seed rilla wants to see