Yeah, I forgot how weak every other Miraidon set is compared to Specs.
#competitive_discussion
foggy lodge
You would need like +3 ice rider to even attempt to pick a OHKO on Incin
stone trellis
Incineroar is none of your concern here.
jade dust
Exactly, I want to remove incineroar so it stops intimidating my physical attackers
foggy lodge
At that point you almost already won the game xdddd
jade dust
You would need like +3 ice rider to even attempt to pick a OHKO on Incin
Helping hand high horsepower can OHKO
foggy lodge
Pretty sure 196+ does the same
stone trellis
Even 92+ gets it to red HP.
stone trellis
You do not need burst damage, you have Specs Miraidon.
And even with AV, that still puts it in range of 92 Adamant HHP.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Miraidon Electro Drift vs. 228 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Incineroar in Electric Terrain: 160-189 (80.4 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
At that range, it dies to Glacial Lance.
jade dust
Then what’s the caly ice evs spread?
I want 0 speed so I have a chance to beat ursaluna in trick room
So at least I speed tie
212+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Helping Hand High Horsepower vs. 228 HP / 100+ Def Incineroar: 184-218 (92.4 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
foggy lodge
SHINY RUIN LEGENDARIES
molten oasis
CHIEN POO IS REAL!
stone trellis
Wait, what?
molten oasis
shiny chien pao is brown
stone trellis
I forgot the Pokemon Presents is happening right now.
knotty mirage
stone trellis
One million times?
What?
Alright, time to build some OHKO strats so I can use shiny Nemo.
molten oasis
just ban restricteds, maybe it'll be a little better
(It wont its another year of tera
waxen dock
AERILATE E-SPEED
Please no
stone trellis
It's fine, Farigiraf exists.
lean ridge
One million times?
I’m curious how this will work, will it just be a code distribution after 1 million or will we get to catch it ourselves
Champions looks great tho im excited for it
stone trellis
Same here.
And we finally get to set EVs and Natures for free?
This is the dream!
stone trellis
I hope shiny Chien-Pao wins Worlds.
Because that'll prove that even the shittiest of Pokemon can do it.
bold geode
@chrome knot CHIEN POO IS REAL
bold geode
Guys just hope it releases on Jan 2026 and they switch it mid season idfk
foggy lodge
Please on jan 2026
molten oasis
🙏
next stump
IDK if anyone else is watching wolfey costream but he's bringing up a really interesting point about IVs and EVs in Champions
hard to say without more info but it seems like the gardevoir has perfect IVs and the EV slider is way different than the current system
next stump
It might be a huge mechanic change if they rework IVs/EVs
stone trellis
Yeah.
next stump
X
dense latch
also idk if im missing something but i think they gave us one extra stat point to boost with
there’s 66 stat points so you can max out 2 stats and still have 2 points remaining rather than just the one normally, I checked with the damage calc and that gardevoir would only be possible with an extra point
lost sun
so champions is like SD
next stump
It seems like it
bold geode
hard to say without more info but it seems like the gardevoir has perfect IVs an...
Definitely weird
I still like how they're doing things
Also another note
The rental mons they showed in the game
You can't change those
Which I'm fine with personally
molten oasis
foggy lodge
No microtransactions
narrow lily
So does this mean we won't have competitive battles in gen 10?
I mean built in the game itself like we had in all the previous games
lean ridge
I’m a little confused by this, does it mean champions will have a progression system (kinda)?
I assumed it would be home compatible and u could just transfer ur mons in
next stump
from the trailer it seems like you can either “purchase” pokemon in game or transfer via home
winged cedar
I mean, that would be a good way to reward people who have been playing other titles 🤷
next stump
the currency you use to purchase pokemon will be earnable exclusively in game
bold geode
Says on the official page
You get these points via ranked battles
next stump
So does this mean we won't have competitive battles in gen 10?
I think the safe bet is that there will still be battling in those games, but official tournaments will be on champions
that is my guess
winged cedar
That's okay with me personally but I could see the annoyance from some
For the currency stuff
next stump
some people take that a step further and say that Gen 10 will lean really hard into changing core gameplay mechanics (stuff like frostbite in Legends Arceus) so there won’t be battling like we know on those games
narrow lily
I think the safe bet is that there will still be battling in those games, but of...
Just seems like a way to splinter your playerbase. Guess for financial reasons they made champions since people on android could buy and battle on the phone.
They could have just baked in all of this into the next pokemon game.
bold geode
Just seems like a way to splinter your playerbase. Guess for financial reasons t...
I mean......
Idk maybe?
Cuz thing is from looks, you'll still need the main games to acquire Pokemon to use in Champions
stone trellis
How do you earn in-game currency if you don't have any Pokemon to win a battle with?
solid frigate
Chien Pooooo
Chien POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
bold geode
How do you earn in-game currency if you don't have any Pokemon to win a battle w...
Trial mons
Maybe they let you transfer other mons already
narrow lily
How do you earn in-game currency if you don't have any Pokemon to win a battle w...
you'll probably have a rotating free set of pokemons
like in mobas
next stump
Trial pokemon are free with built in movesets and stats
Permanently unlocked pokemon via currency are 99% gonna be changeable, otherwise that’s a garbage system
next stump
If I play 10 battles to unlock Hydreigon permanently and can’t change its moves off Dragon Hammer I’m gonna break my switch
chrome knot
LMFAO
last minute unlocking csr for a regional and its missing astral barrage bc i forgot to play 10 matches with it first
narrow lily
Ehhh, I really think this is a big departure and a significant change to the core Pokemon experience but imo at the end of the day I bet like 1% of S/V ever did competitive battling
next stump
Just seems like a way to splinter your playerbase. Guess for financial reasons t...
I totally see what you are saying but I think the ability to play this game on mobile AND for it to be so easy to access means the playerbase will EXPLODE and nullify any worries about splintering
foggy lodge
lmfao
And most likely you will still need the new games to transfer all the broken new mons
bold geode
If I play 10 battles to unlock Hydreigon permanently and can’t change its moves ...
I REALLY GOTTA USE DRAGON BREATH FUCK
narrow lily
I totally see what you are saying but I think the ability to play this game on m...
I just don't think theres a viable way to have 2 parallel systems of battling on the mainline games and champions, just seems like a waste of resources thats why I think gen x has no online battling or at least no competitive scene
But again champions is a paid game
bold geode
I think there could be maybe idfk
narrow lily
Ppl gonna riot if they have to pay 10$ to play pokemon online lol
After they paid 80$ for the game
next stump
Regionals get like 800-1000 players per tournament, probably 50% of the players there play in other regionals too.
I bet globally, there are maybe 10,000 players who play in person VGC? That includes locals, regionals, ICs, etc.
If you include online players, I think it’s a big jump but probably no more than 100,000 players who seriously play pokemon battles?
I think these games won’t lose many of those players, most of them will be very happy to move over to a competitive exclusive game. Even if they do lose 25%, I think Champions being so accessible will make up those numbers easily and then some
bold geode
last minute unlocking csr for a regional and its missing astral barrage bc i for...
My Shadow Rider looking at the Chien Pao Sucker Punch (it's extremely effective) :
chrome knot
-100%!
bold geode
Also give Mega Dragonite Aerilate
Don't be a bitch big Pikachu
narrow lily
But imo Nintendo could do a lot more to help ppl get into ranked battles.
Diving into it headfirst and relying on yt videos and borrowed teams is a really difficult task for someone getting into it for the 1st time
next stump
For sure, and hopefully they do take those steps. Something like actually meta sets/stats on their rental pokémon would be huge
Or maybe an in game system where you can scroll through rental teams rather than finding them online
narrow lily
But outside of sets/stats, strategy guides or tutorials you can watch would be helpful. Maybe partner in with vgc players and have them create something like that would be beneficial but then again I doubt they'll ever do that
bold geode
Or maybe an in game system where you can scroll through rental teams rather than...
This right here
next stump
That would be sick, I bet Wolfey would happily make some short videos for them in a partnership
I don’t think they care enough though
bold geode
But outside of sets/stats, strategy guides or tutorials you can watch would be h...
I think they STARTED to try and do that with Wolfe Glick recently?
They had him do stuff with the GC and they were doing a series for a bit I think idr
narrow lily
Yeah, Wolfe does a lot of videos where he goes in depth through what he did/his thought process was
But imo it doesn't do enough to help you grasp the bigger picture
Just gives you enough context to understand his team
next stump
It’s hard to make easily digestible content that describes the complex systems of VGC. If you want to make a 5ish minute video explaining EVs (or Stat Points/whatever they’re called in Champions), you can, but then you’re gonna miss a lot about how to actually go about finding the right EV sets
It’ll help new players but IDK if pokemon is interested in producing those videos themselves when community members have already made them (and surely will make them when the game comes out)
Wolfey and Cybertron both have a crazy opportunity with this game to create new player content because it will be SO sought after by everyone picking up the game
Side note but I really wonder how IRL tournaments are going to work for this game. Surely you need to play on your Switch, right? And will they somehow magically 2x or 3x the registration cap for the expected increase in players? That’s the part I’m most worried about and I think how they handle it will impact some players on whether or not they commit to the game
If you enjoy the game and want to play an in person tournament and can’t even get a registration slot, that’s gonna super suck
mighty stump
balmy glen
Side note but I really wonder how IRL tournaments are going to work for this gam...
idk they can just do what they did with unite since it seems to be working over there
next stump
Online tournaments to qualify for IRL tourneys? Or like their hardware
balmy glen
both really
next stump
I think official online tourneys to qualify for IRL would be cool
next stump
but they’d need to be SUPER on top of ghosting and all that
balmy glen
hopefully they are smart with it cuz this is pretty much the vgc scene big make or break
next stump
yeah it either quadruples in size or hits a wall
balmy glen
like unite rn is actually a mid esport it’s like 30th for esport prizing which is really good
they can easily get people more on board with this if they play their cards right especially with how big pokemon go and even pocket was pretty big for a bit to casuals
balmy glen
but they’d need to be SUPER on top of ghosting and all that
They can do the clash Royale must hop on discord call with cam on lol
polar canyon
Hoping having a pokemon registered from pokemon home instantly unlocks everything
For champions
balmy glen
Hoping having a pokemon registered from pokemon home instantly unlocks everythin...
They made it seem so
polar canyon
Thinking about it that can also kind of be an alternative way to sneak in more mons without paying extra for console games
chrome knot
I think official online tourneys to qualify for IRL would be cool
no tf it would not
polar canyon
If you just get them from like pokemon go
People who aren't diehard fans but play pogo might at least get a little headstart with unlocks then
Actually I wonder if a pokemon being shiny transfers over to champions unlocks
next stump
You would hope shinies transfer over
lean ridge
Online qualifiers would be interesting, it’s the way most other esports run their formats but for a game like Pokemon I feel like the online qualifiers would have sooo many ppl that it could end up being hard to manage
real prairie
Just caught up to pokemon presents!
Shiny treasures!!!!
next stump
They’ve gotta bring back something like Players Cup to allow all the new players to play from home
Global Challenge blowsss
next stump
I wonder if it’ll be like $60-70 upfront for access on phone and switch permanently
and they update the game to add new pokemon etc.
dense latch
It looks like it's leading more down the in-game purchases route
website says that’s not the case
real prairie
website says that’s not the case
Oh that's good then, the currency system made me worried
polar canyon
Just caught up to pokemon presents!
Shiny treasures!!!!
Gonna run the mud chien pao
rustic mountain
They’ve gotta bring back something like Players Cup to allow all the new players...
balmy glen
its not that at all
molten oasis
Gonna run the mud chien pao
Chien Poo!
rustic mountain
yea in game ways to earn currency is fine imo, not the best for accessbility but it doesnt look outright awful either
also finally shiny ruin distribution only took em 3 years
balmy glen
i shall be the first person on stream with shiny chien poo
rocking shiny chien poo + shiny zam leading it g1
latent leaf
polar canyon
Blue fish is pretty sick
polar canyon
It fits
next stump
gatekeeping worlds players from using chi yu and chien pao
molten oasis
Here comes Moxie with his shiny wo chien
knotty mirage
Maybe cherish ball is just the best for them
molten oasis
What ball would you even put chien poo in?
knotty mirage
I presume moon ball
next stump
my hopium take: If they are allowing/encouragjng ranked battles on your phone, there needs to be a reconnect feature rather than just instant forfeit if you drop connection
no way they actually implement that, but they should
knotty mirage
my hopium take: If they are allowing/encouragjng ranked battles on your phone, t...
Looking at pretty much every online competitive games is that even plausible
next stump
Looking at pretty much every online competitive games is that even plausible
what do you mean?
molten oasis
That’s so cute
next stump
You can reconnect to every other online competitive game I play
pokémon you instantly lose
molten oasis
Most games do have that feature yea
knotty mirage
Is it like 1v1 games tho
next stump
How does that really change it? Just give someone a one-time 1-2 minute timer where they can reconnect. If they constantly disconnect past that then yeah just forfeit them
lean ridge
There are very few games that immediately forfeit you when u dc
lean ridge
Ye
next stump
Yeah showdown just starts counting down and if you can reconnect, you’re good. If you stay DC’d you FF
molten oasis
I think implementing that would be fine
next stump
Just anything if they’re going to have cross platform phone vs. switch ranked battles
otherwise it’ll be DC city
knotty mirage
I never see that kind of feature in every competitive games that i play so yeah just curious
next stump
What games do you play? Not saying you’re wrong but we must not play the same games at all
Because every game I play has some kind of reconnect feeture
feature*
lean ridge
With Pokemon would there need to be auto move picking if u dc to make it work
Kinda like when u time out and it picks ur top move
polar canyon
Seeing people being mad about mega dragonites design
I think it's pretty majestic
The people mad at it make it sound like they took dragonite's very metal and badass design and made it cute
lean ridge
I’m more curious abt the typing than anything, saw some ppl saying it’s gonna stay dragon flying but I rlly hope that’s not the case
polar canyon
I feel like giant wings really imply flying
next stump
With Pokemon would there need to be auto move picking if u dc to make it work
Either that or the battle pauses after the current turn finishes (if you’re in move select then just pause there) for a minute or so
polar canyon
I just wanna know the ability I'm hoping it's not like aerilate
Can you imagine aerilate espeed
molten oasis
What! You’re telling me you DONT want SoR aerilate espeed?
polar canyon
It would be wonderful and great
I get the feeling they're gonna make the mega lean a bit more on the special side
next stump
It’s so funny reading twitter today because competitive players are all super hyped at the Presents info and regular pokemon players are kinda meh about it
tiny karmaBOT
Sableye version 4.28.2
next stump
wild how perspectives can be so different
molten oasis
I hope it’s not special
I think a strong physical attacking guy with inner focus to start a match would be nice
That also means non mega dnite doesn’t hit that hard, specially
polar canyon
Hey they made a physical mega charizard on top of a usually special attacking mon and it's like, not terrible I think?
polar canyon
That also means non mega dnite doesn’t hit that hard, specially
I hope that's the case
Another pseudo legend 600 bst got a mega evolution
molten oasis
Marketing.
polar canyon
I don't want another 170 attack mon but that's gonna make them money from selling dragonitite on pokemon champions
molten oasis
Idk about 170
Personally, I just want more speed
I’d be satisfied with a faster dnite
molten oasis
125 would be nice considering what speed most things rn
shadow wind
I think a strong physical attacking guy with inner focus to start a match would ...
They could also change the ability so that you lead with inner focus then mega to something else
tiny karmaBOT
Sableye version 4.28.2
shadow wind
Thought Dragonair was faster for some reason
shadow wind
The design has Dragonair aspects so I wonder what they’ll do with it
foggy lodge
They should make mega Dragonite have 151 speed
shadow wind
I agree with this notion
lean ridge
Make it 135 or 150 we need more speed ties
foggy lodge
Yes
shadow wind
50 or 135
Take it or leave it
Nah see it’ll be 151 speed because there were 151 pokemon in Kanto
It’s thematic I swear
foggy lodge
49 187 205 and 222 are numbers that will stick with me until I'm 3 meters under the ground
shadow wind
49 187 205 and 222 are numbers that will stick with me until I'm 3 meters under ...
It’s painful actually
molten oasis
True
shadow wind
Although I would say I have an above average memory so every max speed stat I can usually remember anyway
molten oasis
CIR, modest Mirai, timid Mirai, CSR
shadow wind
Urshifu hits 163 !!!
molten oasis
I, actually don’t know how fast zacian gets lmao
foggy lodge
220
molten oasis
I’ve only used 209 at most
foggy lodge
Same as CSR but -2
shadow wind
Well 148 compared to 150
shadow wind
3
foggy lodge
To lose to speed ties
foggy lodge
Waiter waiter! More speed ties please!
molten oasis
Waiter waiter! More speed ties please!
Can’t wait for Gen 10 to introduce a fast hard hitting special attacker with 135 speed again!
shadow wind
Yup
molten oasis
Ye
foggy lodge
Rilla and pagos hit 150 max speed
molten oasis
I think whimsi is 179?
foggy lodge
Chi Yu hits 167 and Lando I 168
shadow wind
I’m singles brainrotted right now so all my numbers are at level 100
Goltres hits 306 speed !
molten oasis
Oh I was thinking ogerpon, which is 178
foggy lodge
I think Goltres also hits 150
foggy lodge
156
molten oasis
Ye, I played max speed gambit with bundle once
That was fun, then bundle missed hydro pump and icy wind in a tournament so I dropped it
Important ones too
foggy lodge
And switched to zac
molten oasis
Yep!
But also Zac can only miss play rough
And it’s my favorite pokemon it gets a pass
wind sparrow
Hi 🙂 is iron moth a good fairy counter?
next stump
It's not very strong in the current ranked format
wind sparrow
K
real prairie
Not sure if its been discussed already:
basically, bye bye IVs
new names for 4x aswell
wind sparrow
Cool, was waiting for that so i know i can cook or be cooked
honestly tho 2x resist should be not effective and 4x resist should be not very effective
next stump
I really dislike their name for 4x resist
Mostly Ineffective doesn't sound strong enough for how little damage it deals
maybe "Most Ineffective"
wind sparrow
maybe "really inifective" ?
oops butchered that
oh no japanise guy
im cooked
Ow
got ohko
*ohko'ed
OH NO
owie
dang koraidon
rekt them, dont use outrage kids
OH NO CHIEN PAO
rip my garchomp
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU_
this is why i hate legendary spam
istg if i have to fight a japanese guy that spams legendaries im'a tweak
next stump
everyone uses legendaries in online ranked battles right now
wind sparrow
:(((((
wait this guy doesnt use legends, i might win
but they have an iron valint
here we go
get ohko'ed iron valint
haxorus pls no go first
ill cry
Yessir 🙂
I won
this is why garchomp is the best pseudo no contest
Rank 4 woo hoo
ok 2 legends, not bad
got ohko'ed :((((
ok we even
dude flutter mane know perish song?
stone trellis
Yes.
So does Scream Tail.
The two horrid singers have won a Regional and an International where either one or both had the purpose of singing badly.
Both were won by the same guy.
stone trellis
What team do you use right now?
wind sparrow
archaldon, iron moth and garchomp
wind sparrow
also others but i prefer the 3
stone trellis
I want a team report.
Pokemon, moves, Tera Type and EV spreads (if you've even considered those).
wind sparrow
uhh i need to this battle rq
stone trellis
Pokemon, moves, Tera Type and EV spreads (if you've even considered those).
Preferraby in DMs so we don't flood chat.
wind sparrow
could i just make my team a rental rq?
stone trellis
I can't use my Switch.
solid frigate
this is why i hate legendary spam
are we fucking doing this again.
stone trellis
Do you play single battles or double battles?
wind sparrow
singles
stone trellis
Oh.
wind sparrow
omg this is close asf
stone trellis
I'm sorry for pestering you in that case.
wind sparrow
i won 🙂
solid frigate
I'm sorry for pestering you in that case.
no no, we can’t talk about singles stuff but at least singles has Smogon or BSS
its a matter which one
stone trellis
He was definitely talking about BSS.
wind sparrow
what that
next stump
In game single battles
wind sparrow
Oh k
stone trellis
Battle Stadium Singles.
wind sparrow
yup thats me
solid frigate
ok then you kinda expected people are using restricted legendaries
since it follows the Official Formats
stone trellis
What is your rank?
stone trellis
That explains it.
solid frigate
yeah
wind sparrow
bruhi cant use my main party for a battle team
stone trellis
That's either because you have two or more instances of the same item, more than two restricted legendaries or two or more of the same Pokemon.
Do you know what a restricted legendary is?
wind sparrow
ones u cant use?
stone trellis
They're also referred to as "Special Pokemon".
wind sparrow
kyorge is one right?
stone trellis
Yes.
stone trellis
Yes.
The full list of restricted Pokemon as of Generation 9 includes Mewtwo, Lugia, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem, Cosmog, Cosmoem, Solgaleo, Lunala, Necrozma, Zacian, Zamazenta, Eternatus, Calyrex, Koraidon, Miraidon and Terapagos.
wind sparrow
No
stone trellis
The full list of restricted Pokemon as of Generation 9 includes Mewtwo, Lugia, H...
So if you happen to have more than two of these guys, that might be why you can't use your party.
wind sparrow
ima just putmy main three in chat, 1 sec
solid frigate
The full list of restricted Pokemon as of Generation 9 includes Mewtwo, Lugia, H...
RIP Yveltal and Zygarde (Not missing Xerneas despite using it in Gen 6-7)
wind sparrow
My garchomp is max speed and attack evs with grond tera, its move set is earthquake, dragon claw, slash, and swords dance
stone trellis
Slash is a bit sub-optimal. Why not run Crunch?
Aren't there any good Ghost or Psychic types that are relevant right now?
stone trellis
And what about the item?
wind sparrow
soft sand
stone trellis
I'm not a geek either, I'm just trying to help.
next stump
you're in the competitive chat
if you want to just play by play your battles for fun use a different chat room
wind sparrow
im competive but not like meta madman competive
solid frigate
koraidon mains when they know the fact miraidon would boost the chance of nerfing them both:
stone trellis
im competive but not like meta madman competive
You don't need to be turbo schizo to do well.
You're on the right path, you just need to experiment with items and moves a little.
wind sparrow
ok ima say my archaludons things now rq
my archaludon is max sp attack and defense evs elec tera, its moves are electro shot, dragon pulse, iron defense, and flash cannon, item is rocky helm
also ablity is stamina
tribal vortex
wind sparrow
what is it bad?
tribal vortex
Iron Defense without Body Press
stone trellis
Switch Flash Cannon with Body Press and you'll be doing great.
wind sparrow
but fairy types 😦
tribal vortex
I would say switch out Dragon Pulse more
solid frigate
my archaludon is max sp attack and defense evs elec tera, its moves are electro ...
can i say that is horrible cuz i have played Archaludon
stone trellis
Also, you can give it the Power Herb item so you can immediately fire off a Tera Electric Electro Shot and get to +1 Special Attack.
solid frigate
honestly Doubles Archaludon is relatively similar to Singles Archaludon anyways
Electro Shot
Draco Meteor
Flash Cannon
Body Press
With a defensive Tera like Fairy or Grass or Ghost(only for FO Immunity which does not exist in Singles)
wind sparrow
nice sauce
anyways my iron moth now, 1 sec
max speed and sp attack evs, poison tera, has sludge wave, acid spray, over heat, and firey dance
item is the booster energy
stone trellis
Not half bad, honestly.
Why Tera Poison though?
Moth is kinda weak to Ground, is it not?
wind sparrow
oh yeah 4x
stone trellis
Maybe something like Tera Bug or Tera Grass could help with that weakness.
wind sparrow
ur right i dont need like a insane sludge wave
stone trellis
It's a STAB Sludge Wave from a Pokemon with base 140 Special Attack, it's already pretty strong.
wind sparrow
could i swap like acid spray for clam mind?
solid frigate
i know this is unintentional
but people misspelling Calm Mind as Clam mind never gets old
wind sparrow
woops
stone trellis
Or people calling Miraidon and Koraidon "Miridon" and "Koridon".
Like bro, have you not played the game?
THEIR NAMES ARE RIGHT THERE!
tribal vortex
Not just misspelling. You also have some who mispronounce it as Clam Mind 
solid frigate
Ah yes Clam Mind,my favourite boosting move
wind sparrow
😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭
stone trellis
This is the same community who still thinks that "Ray-kway-za" is a valid way to spell Rayquaza (I know it's the official way, but it is still stupid).
By that logic, just call Kyurem "Kai-yu-reem".
tribal vortex
But to answer your question, from memory, I don't believe Iron Moth gets Calm Mind. You have Fiery Dance that has a chance to boost your stats. If you can live the next hit
stone trellis
You don't have to live the next hit if they don't live your first.
wind sparrow
then what i do with acid spray
stone trellis
Keep it.
wind sparrow
its 40 power bro
stone trellis
It lowers your opponent's Special Defense by 2 stages.
tribal vortex
Yeah, but it drops special defense 2 stages. You can easily use that to help your next Pokémon
stone trellis
No, it is guaranteed.
wind sparrow
could i possibly swap overheat or do i just leave it be?
stone trellis
Keep it.
stone trellis
At the Delibird Presents in Cascaraffa.
stone trellis
The Mesagoza, Cascaraffa and Levincia shops all have different items.
stone trellis
It is.
tribal vortex
I like to use it when battling friends
wind sparrow
lol i bet if u used that in a tournament people would get mad
stone trellis
Nah.
tribal vortex
It's not a guaranteed miss. They can still land their moves
stone trellis
Most tournaments are Open Team Sheet, meaning that they can also see what items you have and plan around it.
tribal vortex
That one person who does Minimize, Mud Slap and Bright Powder 
stone trellis
It's not a guaranteed miss. They can still land their moves
Plus, if you're lucky enough, this also works.
wind sparrow
is sand attack allowed?
lofty tartan
stone trellis
Except for the one we do not speak of.
wind sparrow
?
lofty tartan
Evasion strats in doubles is really shaky. You can sand attack one thing and probably get downed by the partner.
Sand attack is really really bad in VGC.
stone trellis
Sand attack is really *really* bad in VGC.
He plays BSS.
stone trellis
Dark Void is the signature move of Darkrai.
Smeargle had the ability to learn Dark Void in 2016.
lofty tartan
Dark Void got nerfed and Smeargle hasn't been able to learn it for years.
tribal vortex
Smeargle ruin Darkrai's legacy 
stone trellis
I can't.
wind sparrow
oof
solid frigate
doubles player and i don't haev anything for singles
stone trellis
Same here.
lofty tartan
Doubles player here.
wind sparrow
uhh i geuss i could try doubles?
next stump
I think every regular in this chat is a doubles player
Sometimes there’ll be a singles player that types for a day or two and then they usually dip
wind sparrow
thats gen 5 bro
next stump
Champions including Triples when???
tribal vortex
Rotation battles when? Inverse battles when?
next stump
I was right to be seriously hyped for Champs.
It is an amazing day to be a competitive fan
wind sparrow
Guys thats gen 5 i bet nintendo forgot about that
next stump
And we get Reg J next week
lofty tartan
By the way, Dillon, since Champs is gonna feed off Home like I thought, my pokemon bank is open 
next stump
and likely more announcements at Worlds
lofty tartan
So if you ever find yourself in need just gimme a holler
I've been hardcore raiding in Go recently.
So I'm banking a butt-ton of shiny legends.
lofty tartan
I wonder what's gonna happen for Reg J. Should be really interesting, or really mediocre
stone trellis
Reg J should allow mythicals.
lofty tartan
Gross.
lean ridge
VGC rotation battles 🔥
lofty tartan
Realistically a lot of Mythicals are straight garbage.
stone trellis
Magearna is straight heat though.
lofty tartan
Yeah there's no reason for us to be doing that.
stone trellis
And Arceus is just straight up worthy of restricted status.
next stump
I think it’ll be a low power format like Reg H, if not a re run of Reg H
lofty tartan
Mythicals is the "really medicore" end of the spectrum I was talking about
I'd love a low power format revisit. Reg H was fire.
stone trellis
I think it’ll be a low power format like Reg H, if not a re run of Reg H
That could work too.
next stump
because if we have another half a year (or more) in SV, they can’t keep going higher power
well they could but I think player interest tanks until Champions
lofty tartan
Extremely valid points.
wind sparrow
pop quiz: which pokemon has the worst total stat points?
stone trellis
I'll finally get to use GOAT 2 in an actual competitive setting.
wind sparrow
(least)
stone trellis
pop quiz: which pokemon has the worst total stat points?
Wishiwashi's Solo Forme with a stat total of 175.
wind sparrow
BINGO
wind sparrow
he is the 2nd pokemon to have 255 hp stat
stone trellis
The highest for Pokemon which are usable in-game is a three-way tie between Mega Mewtwo X, Mega Mewtwo Y and Mega Rayquaza.
wind sparrow
with bilssey
lofty tartan
because if we have another half a year (or more) in SV, they can’t keep going hi...
It would be interesting to see a Reg H-adjacent format. Not quite the same, but similar power level.
Not like Spikemuth Cup either.
stone trellis
It would be interesting to see a Reg H-adjacent format. Not quite the same, but...
Like what?
lofty tartan
Reg H no tera would be wild.
wind sparrow
this is all greek to me bro
lofty tartan
I'm down.
next stump
they did no dynamax so it could maybe happen
lofty tartan
Oh you're totally right
stone trellis
this is all greek to me bro
Regulation Set H bans all legendaries and Paradox Pokemon.
lofty tartan
Yeah I'm behind this.
I don't dislike tera, but it changes the dynamics of play dramatically.
knotty briar
Is there any reason not to use behemoth bash over heavy slam on Zamazenta?
wind sparrow
Nnintendo wth
next stump
knowing pokemon we are getting Reg G version 3
wind sparrow
no paradox is wild
stone trellis
Is there any reason not to use behemoth bash over heavy slam on Zamazenta?
Heavy Slam does more damage into specific Pokemon.
lofty tartan
knowing pokemon we are getting Reg G version 3
knotty briar
Heavy Slam does more damage into specific Pokemon.
Flutter mane and what else is there?
stone trellis
no paradox is wild
Flutter Mane was reaching usage rates upwards of 70% at its peak as far as I'm aware, so it was a neccessary evil.
wind sparrow
false or true? bilssey can learn the move grass knot
stone trellis
Flutter mane and what else is there?
Amoonguss.
knotty briar
Ah, yeah that makes sense
stone trellis
Most Pokemon under 196 kg as well.
wind sparrow
rank 5 baby!!!!!!!!!!!
knotty briar
Very nice
Climbing the ranks for the first time was thrilling for me too
stone trellis
It was very fun for me.
I used the San Antonio team and I went 11-2 on my first day.
knotty briar
I remember the only reason I did it at first was because I was trying to get every ribbon on my snorlax
stone trellis
I just did it because I fucked with Ogerpon and Calyrex.
Shoutouts to the Tang Clan for getting me into competitive.
knotty briar
It was reg E for me if I recall correctly
I used trick room with Cresselia and regular Ursaluna
wind sparrow
bro the other trainer had mcdonalds wifi
dense latch
Flutter mane and what else is there?
whimsicott, guaranteed 2hko on csr which bash only gets sometimes
wind sparrow
he dissconected before the first move😭
dense latch
whimsicott, guaranteed 2hko on csr which bash only gets sometimes
guaranteed 3hko on amoong
knotty briar
whimsicott, guaranteed 2hko on csr which bash only gets sometimes
Amoongus and CSR
those are the big ones that bash can't deal with
Thanks
gentle cragBOT
Amoongus and CSR
those are the big ones that bash can't deal with
Thanks
bman54319 has given 1 Gen Rep to eriksp
wind sparrow
bro this mofo uses stwich out moves
next stump
is anyone playing victory road this weekend?
it’ll be my first online tourney in a longggg time
next stump
RIP, and thanks 🙂
next stump
are you an AI robot who has to click the same move and can’t switch themselves
swap up your move king
wind sparrow
muhahaha
iron moth sludge wave sweep
2 in a row?!
dayum
i combo'ed his whole team with iron moth bro
😭
3 ko combo
rank 6 yippee
7 wins / 2 loses
solid frigate
he is terrible
Dillon calling people out is insane lmao
wind sparrow
so thats a dub in my book
bro this guy has kyorge
how is he allowed to use that team bro
its sweepin time!
OH NO
ok we ballin still
stone trellis
Not using legendaries is a self-imposed restriction.
lofty tartan
Basically.
wind sparrow
Oh
stone trellis
You can get Kyogre in S/V anyway.
wind sparrow
fuck jolteon
lofty tartan
Jolteon is bad.
next stump
@lofty tartan are you playing in pittsburgh?
lofty tartan
<@294245776060579842> are you playing in pittsburgh?
Right now it's pretty likely, actually.
next stump
hell yeah, if you can make it i’ll be there
lofty tartan
Hell yeah dude. We need to get that drink.
wind sparrow
is zacian faster than garchomp?
next stump
it is a “business” trip for me so we’ll have to do saturday night, friday 10PM arrival Sunday 3PM departure
lofty tartan
Makes sense.
stone trellis
is zacian faster than garchomp?
Zacian has base 148 Speed and Garchomp has base 102.
Garchomp goes up to 169 at level 50 and Zacian can reach 219.
wind sparrow
oh no
lofty tartan
I'll be able to afford a lot more travel this season. So hopefully Pittsburgh won't be my only stop.
wind sparrow
archaldon pls cook
lofty tartan
Gotta get those reps in.
next stump
if you want to room with chicago VGC people for pitt, let me know
wind sparrow
Nae nae ni-
next stump
99% chance you can join us
wind sparrow
fuck zacain he is overrated
lofty tartan
Word. I'll likely be traveling with my roommate, but if he can't go I can swing it myself. We'll definitely make plans - I'm keeping my ear to the ground for when registration goes live.
Should be sometime next month.
wind sparrow
i hope zacian gets banned next reg set
lofty tartan
Oh man if Reg J is low powered and we're doing J for Pittsburgh I'm gonna be living large.
next stump
that is the dream scenario
solid frigate
i hope zacian gets banned next reg set
@molten oasis
lofty tartan
Legends are just Legends. It's not a big deal.
molten oasis
wtf man
lofty tartan
Urshifu still gets creamed by a Wood Hammer.
solid frigate
Urshifu still gets creamed by a Wood Hammer.
something about this makes me think Urshifu becomes a mochi
wind sparrow
omg i just got saved by oppeonet lag
lofty tartan
I wonder if you can transfer points from Home to convert into VP in Champions. I checked the info on VP but it's still somewhat vague anyway, which is fine.
lofty tartan
Gonna have to start transfering my primo stuff from Go into Home to prepare. 👀
wind sparrow
bro...
solid frigate
I wonder if you can transfer points from Home to convert into VP in Champions. ...
idk
but would be fine
lofty tartan
idk
Yeah I'm just like thinking out loud.
I've been banking Home points for years with a few thousand things in my boxes.
next stump
hopefully we get another info drop at worlds
wind sparrow
he has freaking sogaleo + necromanza
lofty tartan
I've been sending all of my breedjects to it.
wind sparrow
pray for me gang
lofty tartan
solid frigate
I've been sending all of my breedjects to it.
breed rejections?
lofty tartan
hopefully we get another info drop at worlds
Yeah for sure. So far all information looks good and I'm hype as hell
Yeah Torrent. Basically everything that isn't a shiny.
foggy lodge
he has freaking sogaleo + necromanza
Those are some super shitty legendaries lmao
solid frigate
Yeah Torrent. Basically everything that isn't a shiny.
that took selective breeding to next level lol (not)
lofty tartan
So I've got a few thousand of multiple species just kicking in Home.
wind sparrow
no the combined form
foggy lodge
Still a shitty legendary
wind sparrow
Bruh
lofty tartan
You accrue points based on how many things you've got in your boxes in Home, over time.
wind sparrow
frubkhj rhhrhfhhjhgh
solid frigate
like does not OHKO incin with Close Combat lmao
wind sparrow
oh wait guys thats racist
solid frigate
<:Thonk:890109899550388305>
also
Chien Poooooo my beloved
Its real,the chocolate cat is real
wind sparrow
dont saythat
lofty tartan
I'm down for the shiny Ruins. It's about damn time.
solid frigate
I'm down for the shiny Ruins. It's about damn time.
we gonna have shiny Live Wo Chien Reaction now
foggy lodge
And the first one pre worlds is the only unplayable one LMAO
wind sparrow
PLEASE MODS DONT BAN MEEE🥺
lofty tartan
And the first one pre worlds is the only unplayable one LMAO
I mean we're getting them delivered in mystery gift form at an unspecified date so it's not even clear if we'll get them delivered before Worlds in any capacity anyway 
next stump
lowkey 2nd most exciting thing about champs for me is the ability to have percentage HP bars
foggy lodge
Oh yeah
lofty tartan
^^^^^^^ 💯
foggy lodge
Way easier to replicate evs that you see in regionals or any tournament
lofty tartan
HP percentage is huge.
foggy lodge
Instead of counting pixels lmao
lofty tartan
Yeah absolutely.
foggy lodge
And that definetly came from showdown
next stump
for in person tournaments you’ll definitely want write down the % damage
lofty tartan
The layout is extremely clean too. I dig it.
next stump
great for figuring out 3HKOs
wind sparrow
guys would it be funny if reg set 2 banned all legandaries and mythicals
foggy lodge
So yeah I think they really know what the community want if they are adding all this features
lofty tartan
Mythicals are already banned, we're in Regulation Set I right now, and it would be fine.
foggy lodge
This is the chance to get VGC to pop off
lofty tartan
I as in the letter i, not the roman numeral 1
solid frigate
Mythicals are already banned, we're in Regulation Set I right now, and it would ...
i'm fine with Reg I but i just a bit worn off on mirrors
wind sparrow
oh
foggy lodge
Because even in the Pokémon community VGC is just a niche part
lofty tartan
i'm fine with Reg I but i just a bit worn off on mirrors
Oh Reg I is fine. I don't really have any complaints.
But a low power format is usually more diverse.
You have things that absolutely centralize the meta in lower powered formats coughSneaslercough but it's absolutely manageable.
wind sparrow
man i dont want to but i have the urge to use fairy types 😫
solid frigate
whats wrong with fairy types-
foggy lodge
Probably like top 3 best types in the game lol
lofty tartan
Steel/Fairy is one of the arguably best type pairings in the game at this point in time.
foggy lodge
What are the top 3 best types actually
wind sparrow
It's too op and i hate it
lofty tartan
Steel/Normal would be absolutely bonkers.
lofty tartan
I'll take a 4x weakness to fighting for all of the benefits you get out of Steel/Normal.
foggy lodge
X4 weakness aren't really that big of a deal
lofty tartan
The resistances and immunities are nuts.
wind sparrow
did you know? steel used to resist dark and ghost too in gen 5
solid frigate
we know
wind sparrow
😦
lofty tartan
Steel/Normal -- 10 resistances, two immunities, 3 weaknesses. Nutso.
foggy lodge
I still don't know why people think that X4 weakness make a Pokémon automatically unviable
Mainly the casual community but yeh
lofty tartan
Water, Electric, Dark are neutral.
wind sparrow
tyranitar has 2 4x weaknesses and hes good
foggy lodge
It only has one no?
lofty tartan
Zero pokemon with Steel/Normal. I was so hoping that BM Ursa was Steel/Normal based on it using mud like iron armor.
foggy lodge
To fighting
lofty tartan
Yeah TTar only has one 4x weakness.
wind sparrow
btw guys do you wonder how the hell steel loses to fighting
like that makes no sense bro
lofty tartan
Fighting is more representative of superhuman strength.
foggy lodge
2 X4 weakness may make a Pokémon worse but one isn't that big of a deal
lofty tartan
Superhuman strength makes mincemeat out of steel.
chrome knot
honkhgonk
wind sparrow
no wonder why zacian sacred blade pwns a 714 hp blissey
wind sparrow
ik but 714 hp bro
lofty tartan
That doesn't matter.
lofty tartan
It has a base 255 hp. 714 is unachievable in VGC Doubles, and it doesn't do you a lick of good if you have 10 Defense.
tiny karmaBOT
Sableye version 4.28.2
foggy lodge
Even worse in singles because of all the traps and status like poison that do damage based on % rather than raw damage
lofty tartan
A level 50 Blissey has 30 Physical Defense. Trash.
foggy lodge
Shuckle was never good
lofty tartan
Stall isn't a good strategy in Doubles.
foggy lodge
Outside of gimmick strategies like the move that swaps defenses
lofty tartan
Shuckle has no offensive pressure whatsoever.
lofty tartan
You can safely ignore him a whole game and he's got "All my friends are dead" syndrome.
Same as Blissey, really.
wind sparrow
what is yall favorite pokemon? in general not competiveley
stark kindle
oh wait guys thats racist
Only warning. Do not do it again
lofty tartan
jade dust
bro why do people hate ranked singles it takes me like 5 mins for 1 match
Stall teams take 200 turns
next stump
you’re playing the less popular mode between doubles and singles, you’re great ball rank 6, it’s overnight in Japan where most singles players are, the game is 3 years old, and it’s the end of the ranked season almost
wind sparrow
oh
jade dust
Doubles ranked at least works as some type of practice for tournament players
But most people use smogon cuz its easier to make adjustments there
wind sparrow
bro this mofo stalling
OMG
ha- oh thats not nice
dont stall please 🙂
ky- oh guys thats not nice
wait
i know
LEAVE MID GAME!
👍
wind sparrow
minor
solid frigate
i mean the actual age.
wind sparrow
stanger danger
jade dust
bro this mofo stalling
What the problem? If we hate stall and find it boring and lame as fuck, we are in our right to avoid playing singles all together
solid frigate
stanger danger
this is more cuz your behaviour does not feel like above discord TOS required age
foggy lodge
Morris don't ask those questions
jade dust
Why will I force myself to play a boring and lame mode when games are supposed to be fun
wind sparrow
man im to corny
real prairie
this is more cuz your behaviour does not feel like above discord TOS required ag...
I hear this tbh
wind sparrow
man no one is playing singles
dense latch
BSS might be the most dead competitive community rn
shadow wind
how old are you-
Why does this question always feel so awful to ask
Like it’s not really any different than asking someone’s gender
But for some reason that question is always awkward
dense latch
it just feels a bit more personal
shadow wind
Yeah but the person can always just decline the answer the question
Similar to gender just it feels worse somehow
next stump
VGC playerbase feels like it skews old
shadow wind
VGC playerbase feels like it skews old
Which is funny because it’s not a sport where you need to be young and fit
dense latch
VGC playerbase feels like it skews old
yeah almost everyone here is 18+ or close to it i feel like
and the top players are around the 25-30 age range too
next stump
my theory is that VGC is more fun when you can be involved in the IRL aspect of it and to be involved, you need free time and money
which people in their 20's tend to have
shadow wind
I would agree with that
dense latch
i hope to get involved in the irl aspect soon
shadow wind
But also I’ve never gone to a real life event so I can’t speak to that too much
chrome knot
my theory is that VGC is more fun when you can be involved in the IRL aspect of ...
same person who said itd be cool to have to play online to qualify for in person events btw
next stump
imagine how fire a last chance qualifier for worlds would be with an online tournament deciding who can attend
🔥
foggy lodge
imagine how fire a last chance qualifier for worlds would be with an online tour...
Idk how good this idea would be but what about a tournament that only gives money and doesn't affect who qualifies?
That doesn't give any Championship points or invites
next stump
I'm a fan of any online tourney that is OTS, bo3, and doesn't take away from the number of IRL tourneys there are
foggy lodge
Fs
wind sparrow
Why are new legendaries getting less total stat points?
dense latch
wdym
wind sparrow
1 sec
foggy lodge
My family knows that I want to play irl tournaments but they asked me like "oh but why irl if its Pokémon you can just battle online"
And its a good point tbh Pokémon should take more advantage of it being a game that plays the same irl and online
dense latch
new legendaries are more min maxed stat wise anyways so there's need for filler bst
polar canyon
Why are new legendaries getting less total stat points?
If you mean the ruin legends not being 600 it kinda balances out their broken abilities
next stump
in person VGC is an experience every player needs to have at least once
foggy lodge
And to that question I think is "balance" reasons like Miraidon and Koraidon don't have a super high bst
But they are broken in the ability aspect xd
wind sparrow
oh
dense latch
no need for higher special attack when hadron engine boosts it to insane levels already
polar canyon
Could you imagine a legendary that has a really good ability and insanely high bst that's legal to use?
Yeah me too
dense latch
and it still has 670 bst lol
tiny karmaBOT
Sableye version 4.28.2
foggy lodge
Lmfao
foggy lodge
Nah what
dense latch
what is that i've never heard of such calibrex
foggy lodge
I remember Kyogre and Groudon being almost 700
tiny karmaBOT
Sableye version 4.28.2
polar canyon
what is that i've never heard of such calibrex
Like at least top 3 competitive mons of all time
dense latch
how tf does it do everything
how are you fast bulky and can hit hard af
foggy lodge
Fs
wind sparrow
ghost rider can stall with protect and disable and i hate it
foggy lodge
100 on EVERY STAT
polar canyon
ghost rider can stall with protect and disable and i hate it
Who does that
dense latch
willingly choosing to play singles and complaining about stall just sounds like masochism to me
wind sparrow
like 2 hours ago i dealt with a staller ghost rider
foggy lodge
Its has a good BST but it's truly a lie because it doesn't have any incredible stat and therefore the real BST is fake
tiny karmaBOT
Sableye version 4.28.2
wind sparrow
protect should become 100% block every 2 turns
foggy lodge
why
polar canyon
willingly choosing to play singles and complaining about stall just sounds like ...
I mean it kinda depends on wether it's 3v3 or 6v6 format but it's been years since I did singles so things might have changed
wind sparrow
or less pp
foggy lodge
No wtf
dense latch
protect should become 100% block every 2 turns
huh?
foggy lodge
Its perfectly fine the way it is thanks I keep it
wind sparrow
every other turn you can block bro
polar canyon
Honestly yeah
dense latch
every other turn you can block bro
punish passive play
polar canyon
Double protect is lame
dense latch
pokemon is not just deal damage to your opponent every single turn
polar canyon
If you don't have a way to deal with protect spam maybe it's a team issue
wind sparrow
technicly if your lucky you can block for like 3 turns in a row if im right on how protectworks
polar canyon
And assuming you're playing singles, if you've seen your opponent protect every other turn twice, you can probably assume it's a safe bet to switch or set up the third time they do
foggy lodge
But I think double protect is bad
next stump
100% chance for 1 protect
1/3 chance for 2 protect
1/9 chance for 3 protect
just switch your pokemon out if you’re getting stalled by calyrex like that
dense latch
or take advantage of the fact that they're doing nothing that turn
boost a stat
reposition
set up in any way
wind sparrow
dont get me started on the disable use too bro😫
polar canyon
Turn the fact they're doing nothing against them
foggy lodge
The other rng mechanics have a use, crits and secondary effects affect the game in an annoying way but atleast they make each game different and they aren't really that broken usually
And missing moves is usually a balance mechanic
What does double protect give
dense latch
crits are 100% necessary in pokemon
wind sparrow
thankfully that was the only time i dealt with stallers
foggy lodge
Fs
polar canyon
Playing with odds is usually about calculating if a risk is worth it but it's different with double protect because since it's almost always a last case scenario it's just banking the game on a 1/3 chance
dense latch
idt double protect is
foggy lodge
Urshifu would be a healthy mon if it didn't bypass 100% through protect
polar canyon
That's why they run sash isn't it
foggy lodge
As if it cared about it
dense latch
calyrex shadow is 4x weak to dark and ghost
doesnt make it any less broken
also tera
foggy lodge
A lot of competitive staples have x4 weaknesses
polar canyon
A lot of competitive staples have x4 weaknesses
Not incineroar
Because he's the goat
foggy lodge
Koraidon, Heatran, Whimsicott, Lunala, CSR, Volcarona
dense latch
half the pseudos too
polar canyon
Ice
wind sparrow
yeah like my boy garchomp
foggy lodge
And a lot of them aren't part of the "but tera came to save it" they are just good even with that
dense latch
yea
polar canyon
Heatran was huge
wind sparrow
oh no
polar canyon
I think the best legendary pokemon historically is chi yu because it's a funny looking cute fish
foggy lodge
Even when people thought it was dead it somehow revived to be besties with pagos
dense latch
half the pseudos too
ttar salamence garchomp dnite hydreigon kommo-o damn i was kidding about it being half but it's actually higher than that lol
forest arrow
All the homies love heatran
wind sparrow
nvm the kid lagged out
polar canyon
Tera bug heatran goes crazy
wind sparrow
dude why do all the japanese kids lag out
foggy lodge
Ayo what's that shit
wind sparrow
????
next stump
Got it
polar canyon
I missed it
left bobcat
Hmmm
polar canyon
Wonder if multiscale dragonite is gonna rise in usage if mega dnite turns out to be a special attacker
left bobcat
Well who doesn’t run ursh?
polar canyon
Urshifu?
left bobcat
lol
wind sparrow
my duraldon
polar canyon
Why you using duraludon
dense latch
why are you using duraludon
wind sparrow
i used crunch by mistake oops
polar canyon
You know that thing evolves now right