competitive_discussion

[mighty stump]

Its an easy logical statement

Not even an assumption

[foggy lodge]

how

[zinc totem]

shall we summon keanu?

[devout nebula]

LOL

[solid frigate]

ah yes

Funni past Magneton

[foggy lodge]

How is Sandy shocks more used than Latios😭

[solid frigate]

because its funny

Is it because of Gravity?

[foggy lodge]

maybe

I saw some stuff with gravity sandy and groudon

[devout nebula]

@solid frigate is clodsire in trick room with max attack and hp good?

i feel like im cooking

but i might be burning it

[solid frigate]

pls do not burn the recipe

[zinc totem]

mostlikely beacuse sableye has seen some play recently

[foggy lodge]

what is clodsire supposed to do tho

[devout nebula]

😭

[mighty stump]

Easy to look at stats and just see the most used team members for Koraidon/Groudon and easy to just scroll the best performing sun teams all have Raging Bolt

[zinc totem]

unaware SpD bulky wall that poisons

[shadow wind]

Oh for sure looking at performance wise.

[chrome knot]

@craggy dagger :((((((((

[foggy lodge]

taunt

[zinc totem]

gunk shot

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 980: Clodsire

Types

Poison/Ground

Abilities

Poison Point, Water Absorb, Unaware (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

130/75/60/45/100/20

Total

430

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[shadow wind]

But to say a team is immediately worse is stupid.

[foggy lodge]

What is a gunk shot going to do with 75 atk

[shadow wind]

1 Pokemon does not make up an entire archetype.

[zinc totem]

if perfomance wise raging bolt makes sun teams perform best they can, its worse without

[dapper crag]

Clodsire's moveset:

Physical Moves

Body Press, Body Slam, Bulldoze, Counter, Dig, Double Kick, Double-Edge, Earthquake, Facade, Giga Impact, Gunk Shot, Heavy Slam, High Horsepower, Iron Head, Liquidation, Low Kick, Megahorn, Poison Jab, Poison Sting, Poison Tail, Rock Slide, Rock Tomb, Slam, Stomping Tantrum, Stone Edge, Tackle, Take Down, Trailblaze, Waterfall, Zen Headbutt

Special Moves

Acid Spray, Ancient Power, Chilling Water, Earth Power, Hydro Pump, Hyper Beam, Mud Shot, Mud-Slap, Muddy Water, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Spit Up, Surf, Tera Blast, Venoshock, Water Pulse

Status Moves

After You, Amnesia, Curse, Endure, Haze, Helping Hand, Mist, Protect, Rain Dance, Recover, Rest, Sandstorm, Sleep Talk, Spikes, Stealth Rock, Stockpile, Substitute, Swallow, Tail Whip, Toxic, Toxic Spikes, Yawn

Notes

A move displayed with Bold text benefits from Same-Type Attack Bonus when used by Clodsire.

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[devout nebula]

clodsire in trick room is the fastest u can have + it got acsess to good moves and yawn

[zinc totem]

that is why its looked about perfomance

[foggy lodge]

Ehh it has yawn

[mighty stump]

Okay, if you really need me to spell it out for you.

Why on earth would you not use a mon that easily is one of the best current metamons in general, to patch your own archetypes poorer matchups

[devout nebula]

it has like 50 speed or something

its really good in trick room

[mighty stump]

A team that cannot deal with the common counters of its own archetype is an incomplete team, ergo, worse

[devout nebula]

• any move that damages it has a high chance to poisen the attacker

[mighty stump]

If you have to deal with it in a convoluted way, you’re just doing a worse job than what can be provided

[devout nebula]

clodsire is underrated

[shadow wind]

The poorer matchups being rain I'm assuming?

[mighty stump]

Peli-CIR, Kyogre HO, Crystal Rain, Miraidon

[shadow wind]

Yeah my team has been able to handle all of those pretty fine actually, but since it's worse then oh well.

[mighty stump]

I’m glad you understand

[shadow wind]

Of course of course.

[mighty stump]

Just to make sure, what’s Crystal Rain?

[devout nebula]

clodsire is fantastic

ima ev train it and try it in pvp

[shadow wind]

No need to go against one of the Top 10 players in this server.

[mighty stump]

Lol

[zinc totem]

instead being hurt, how about you show it and you get feedback

[mighty stump]

Not even a title I gave myself?

[foggy lodge]

i was going to ask the same

[mighty stump]

I mean the guy faced it and dealt with it so he should know right

[devout nebula]

should i go for defense and spa for my farigraf

or should i spread it across spa spd and defense

[mighty stump]

Depends on what you need it to live.

Usually EV spreads are calc’d

[devout nebula]

i need it to set up trickroom when clodsire is on the field

[shadow wind]

I mean I'm assuming it's just Terapagos with Decorate Smeargle but I don't hang around here much so if that's wrong oh well. I don't know a specific lingo.

[devout nebula]

when i got clodsire in trick room farigraf can just die for all i care

[mighty stump]

So you don’t know what it is and yet you dealt with it. Ok

[zinc totem]

mine runs Farigiraf @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Armor Tail
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Hyper Voice
• Protect
• Trick Room
• Helping Hand

but this is more to have bulk against shifus

[mighty stump]

Moving on

[shadow wind]

I'm not hurt I'm just a little annoyed that not even being given a chance and just being immediately put down.

[solid frigate]

The special Defense looks kinda-

[devout nebula]

I want it to be more attacing

[mighty stump]

People take it very personally when they’re wrong and that’s a human thing. No need to be upset

[shadow wind]

What is crystal rain then?

[devout nebula]

so ill half the hp and put it i spa

[nocturne holly]

I really like amoonguss in this is there anything i can do instead

[zinc totem]

then its HP and SpA spread with throat spray

[devout nebula]

yep thats exactly what im using

hp spa spread and throat spray

[mighty stump]

Screens CM Kyogre with Raging Bolt/Grimmsnarl/Rilla/Incin

[foggy lodge]

why tho

[mighty stump]

More Grimm/Rilla/Incin then +2 but Bolt/Urshi

[zinc totem]

yeah, but most opponents i've faced i've not needed much SpD but i've been thinking to switcha bit spread making hp 116 and SpD 136 maybe

[shadow wind]

Oh yeah I'm not shocked I didn't know what that is, that is like hyper specific.

[mighty stump]

Its one of the big compositions atm

[shadow wind]

And I bet I've seen it on ladder.

[mighty stump]

Although, depending on Origin Pulse as your sole Water STAB isn’t my cup of tea.

[shadow wind]

Just didn't know the name of it.

[mighty stump]

But it works for a lot of people. So.

[shadow wind]

At what point can a team be considered "good" then by going on ladder standards as because of my situation tournaments are not an option.

[mighty stump]

Good objectively vs subjectively is two different things

If you’re happy with it and it’s good in your eyes by all means

[shadow wind]

Objectively good then.

[zinc totem]

@solid frigate

would this work better

Farigiraf @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Armor Tail
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 132 HP / 236 Def / 140 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Hyper Voice
• Protect
• Trick Room
• Helping Hand

?

[mighty stump]

Good objectively is relative to tournament standards. In ladder it has to achieve at least 70% GXE and top 500-top 100 depending on how far along the meta we are at

[devout nebula]

Is that special defense or speed

[zinc totem]

SpD is special defence

[shadow wind]

So currently as of today.

[zinc totem]

Speed is Spe

[shadow wind]

Top 500 or Top 100?

[chrome knot]

• Psychic Noise
• Foul Play
• Helping Hand
• Trick Room

[mighty stump]

Probably that, top 100 since we’re far along the meta

But ladder in bo1 itself, a lot of wack stuff works

So you can get there pretty easily with weird things

I saw Zebstrika at like

[shadow wind]

But for Bo3s?

[mighty stump]

For Bo3s then you’re better off doing tours, if by ladder than the standard I chase atm is to be somewhere in the top 400 to consider a team “okay” conceptually and then tweak from there

So far I’m happy with two teams only

[shadow wind]

Also wouldn't being far along the meta be wider than top 100? Compared to top 500?

[mighty stump]

As an overall, consistency in performance of the archetype across several players and garnering results in big tours is an easy way to see things objectivrly

So I can’t debate with whatever results come out. Any inferences drawn from those statistics become mere opinion like VR Tour not having any Terapagos in Day 2 while I still think it’s good

[shadow wind]

Fair.

[mighty stump]

The further along the format is the higher the ceiling goes

it also means that people have more time to solidify concepts

[shadow wind]

Yeah so more time means it would be harder to reach top 100.

[mighty stump]

Which means the standard you want to achieve is aso going to be higher

Yea

Since maybe at the beginning people weren’t reaching those levels as they didnt get it

Then they start getting it

So the level of play goes up

So its harder to go higher

[zinc totem]

regulation H starts next month?

[shadow wind]

So at what point in a VGC meta does Top 500 and 70% GXE become "good"?

Nah end of August I think.

[mighty stump]

As a concept: I would consider that to hold water

[shadow wind]

What?

[mighty stump]

Like the team. If it gets to that elo/GXE with relative ease

[opal trout]

I got to top 300 on the ladder with:
Zacian C
Urshifu R
Chien Pao
Incineroar
Raging Bolt
Tornadus I

[mighty stump]

Then its probably good in either team logic, or its being piloted by someone insane

[opal trout]

It was pretty easy

[mighty stump]

80% GXE is undeniably good

[shadow wind]

Alright sounds good, thanks for answering my questions.

[mighty stump]

But 70% is where you kinda wanna aim for but at the end of the day its all also a snapshot

[misty helm]

are latios and latias the only sub legendary Pokemon with a base stat total of more than 580 now

[mighty stump]

Best thing to focus on is overall consistency

its better to be top 1k with 65% GXE across all formats than to fluke a top 500 a couple of times imo

[misty helm]

oh yeah there's also landurus and heatran

[glad osprey]

https://pokepast.es/bcdb48388d35b41f

Thoughts?

Just whooped some dude w it

but its def not a usual team

[solid frigate]

Bulky Specs??? I Need therapy

[mighty stump]

Spe investment on Miraidon. You can use Alolan Raichu

[zinc totem]

bulky specs, raichu with no lighting rod. i need bleach my eyes

[devout nebula]

are any of your pokemon sow

slow

[zinc totem]

miraidon and incine are slow af

cuz miraidon has no speed investment

[devout nebula]

?

miraidon needs speed

[zinc totem]

yes

and in his pokepaste miraidon is HP/SPA basically raging bolt investment but miraidon

[glad osprey]

shit

[devout nebula]

omg i just found out clodsire has water absorb

but it can also have unaware

[zinc totem]

yup

[devout nebula]

which one do i pick bomboclat

[rustic mountain]

at like what?

dont leave us hanging

[glad osprey]

is it good to have slow mon on team

@devout nebula

[rustic mountain]

i mean if ur tr based yea u want slower mons

[devout nebula]

slow what

slow pokemon?

[glad osprey]

pokemon

[zinc totem]

unaware is generally better for setup countering in singles. in doubles clodshire wont be much use

[glad osprey]

yea

[devout nebula]

trick room is being used alot

incineroar is generally slow tho

[glad osprey]

dondozo coming out the woodworks

[rustic mountain]

w/ cir being what it is, yea tr is def around. and then the niche teams w/ like lunala and shit also

[zinc totem]

"and shit also" i assume you mean dawn wing

[rustic mountain]

lmao

i mean i wasnt thinkin of it wen sayin that but yea

[devout nebula]

@zinc totem i think using clodsire with yawn and helping hand and making him super bulky

would make him usable

[rustic mountain]

for vgc?

[devout nebula]

No

[rustic mountain]

i mean im no singles expert but helping hand isnt a move ud use for it since its for a partner

[devout nebula]

i mean in doubles

[rustic mountain]

vgc is doubles

[devout nebula]

yes

Oh

my bad LOL

[rustic mountain]

ok b4 u said no wen i asked haha jus confused

clodsire unfortunately isnt that great in doubles. if u want a yawn mon thats more support based id go like umbreon

[zinc totem]

doesnt mean its good beacuse farigiraf does same but better and no need yawn, got spore amoongus for sleeps

[devout nebula]

hes the fastest in trick room

no matter what

i think he would be usable

[rustic mountain]

yea but it also doesnt do enough

[devout nebula]

i like him so im trying to make him usable

[rustic mountain]

jus cuz u move first doesnt also mean its useable. it doesnt do the damage u need it to under tr to get the value u want

[long narwhal]

https://pokepast.es/1d50daeb1a74d491 is this good?

[devout nebula]

its hella hard to ko it

its probably not good

[rustic mountain]

4 best mons + best restricted and top 5 support mon? yea i think the teams good

[mighty stump]

With Clodsire best thing you can do is go Water Absorb + Yawn

[devout nebula]

thats what ihave on it

[mighty stump]

Fissure/Stomping Tantrum/Poison move

[devout nebula]

oh

[mighty stump]

There u go have fun

[zinc totem]

you need max speed max SpA shadow rider first and foremost, but otherwise good yes.

[rustic mountain]

nah not for cm

[mighty stump]

Not necessary

[zinc totem]

ah didnt see CM

[mighty stump]

Max spe is a maybe, max SpA is not necessary cause you’re going setup

[zinc totem]

yeah, max speed definetly needed for shadow rider

[long narwhal]

Btw should i sash the shadow rider or no? Bc if i do i change its evs to max spa and speed

[zinc totem]

it doesnt have tailwind so slow speed is too little

unless im blind again

[mighty stump]

Don’t need it

Tailwind wants to play fast

The alternative approach is to just play a balance game

[rustic mountain]

that team is more balance imo anyway

[mighty stump]

Exactly

[long narwhal]

Whats cm?

[rustic mountain]

calm mind

[long narwhal]

Oh

[zinc totem]

for me more having 156 speed shadow rider seems abit iffy beacuse it get outspeed a lot

[long narwhal]

So what should the evs

[zinc totem]

so dont know if it can really setup

[long narwhal]

Look like

[opal trout]

252 speed with timid nature is generally best so it doesn’t get ohko’d by other calyrex shadow riders

[rustic mountain]

ur more focused on the bulk anyway, double fo and follow me/friend guard support, the bulk is more important to capitalize on. also having dkiss go after u get attacked can be nice in certain scenarios

[mighty stump]

If you’re going bulky, you’re fine to be slow

[rustic mountain]

even w/o max speed investment ur still gna outspeed a lot of things

[mighty stump]

If you’re going hard hitting and frail then you need to be fast

Lol

[rustic mountain]

yea

[long narwhal]

I also want you to get rid of calm mind but dont know what to put

[rustic mountain]

cm set is good tho

[mighty stump]

If not CM then you go NPlot

[rustic mountain]

or that

u want to be set up there

[mighty stump]

If you go NPlot then you need max spe since you won’t have as strong of bulk

[devout nebula]

yep

[long narwhal]

Kk

[mighty stump]

You can still invest in defences but you’re not buffing them so just be aware you’re planning on playing a faster game

[rustic mountain]

np is basically i wanna snowball faster but im also more prone to getting ko'd. tradeoff shit

[long narwhal]

Like this is good?

[rustic mountain]

ud want some bulk

[devout nebula]

isnt calm mind usually better then np

or is it dependent on the mon

[rustic mountain]

both have seen success

[timber falcon]

how to make av ting lu spread, prefferably very bulky spdef wise

[opal trout]

Sash may be better with those evs

[devout nebula]

im still struggling on my farigraf ev spread

[timber falcon]

idk moves it should have, and if it should have attack

[devout nebula]

😭

[long narwhal]

Thats what I thought

Do i use smogon evs?

[rustic mountain]

are u asking?

[timber falcon]

yeah

[next stump]

252HP/100DEF/156+ SpDef

[opal trout]

I like it with Indeedee f to block priority moves

[devout nebula]

i want mine to be more attacking

[rustic mountain]

listen to dillon, hes been on the giraffe

[next stump]

252HP/76SpA and spread the rest into DEF/SPDef/Speed

[next stump]

modest nature

[devout nebula]

i dont want speed can i just not use that?

[next stump]

are you purposefully aiming for min speed

[devout nebula]

yep

i want it to sweep in trick room

[next stump]

then yeah just do Quiet nature with those stats

[nocturne holly]

https://pokepast.es/0dd6712cf9fdffe3 stuck on whether I want peli or fari on this
Peli gives me rain and can do solid damage but fari anti prio and another tr setter

[zinc totem]

for me what i've seen, fari is run generally with ice rider. but peli giving weather war against koraidon can be useful, i guess its more what you feel you struggle against most

[timber falcon]

anyone here know how ting works

[long narwhal]

I used this https://pokepast.es/fd11326968e1ebfb

[timber falcon]

specifically av ting

[rustic mountain]

id go for near max tbh. hp doesnt really need much investment imo
Ting-Lu
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Level: 50
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 4 HP / 76 Atk / 172 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
id say something like this and adjust it as u go if u need to (prolly would go water/grass or poison tera)

[timber falcon]

ty

[glad osprey]

I need to get calyrex from swsh still

[timber falcon]

though, how come that hp is low. I thought Hp before bulk unless bulk is really low

[glad osprey]

which one is best

[rustic mountain]

its hp stat is insanely high, ud rather invest in its defenses

[timber falcon]

i think ghost is better rn

[nocturne holly]

Yea I’m using a variation of that team

Peli also gives me wide guard

[timber falcon]

makes sense thanks

[gentle crag]

otot8953 has given 1 Gen Rep to treeco.

[long narwhal]

Yea to counter kyogre and calyrex

[nocturne holly]

I’ve played around with both and they both feel decent

[timber falcon]

do you have any ideas for moves?

[rustic mountain]

also like i said that spread prolly isnt perfect but its a start, u can just adjust it as u play if u feel its lacking in a specific area

[glad osprey]

Betttt

[rustic mountain]

for av? id say snarl/ruination/stomping/fissure or sand tomb

[long narwhal]

After all what should be the calyrex shadow evs?

[long narwhal]

I used rock slide to hit both

[timber falcon]

no heavy slam? has flutter fallen off

[long narwhal]

I think its bc of the restricted idk

[rustic mountain]

yea heavy slam can be there too, i honestly forgot about it, havent seen or played ting lu much recently

stomping/heavy slam/snarl/ruination seems fine. sand tomb is more for yawn trapping stuff and fissure is if u wanna roll the dice and have an option to break things u otherwise wouldnt be able to in specific scenarios

[misty helm]

the legendary birds, beasts, and giants, lake guardians, cresselia, swords of justice, 3/4ths of the forces of nature, silvally, guardian deities, urshifu, calyrex's horses, treasures of ruin, loyal three, and ogerpon all have lower base stat totals than pseudo legendary Pokemon

[zinc totem]

this might be hot take but pelipper gives a bit more value than fari. Sun teams wont weaken your shifu if you bring it to field when you let peliper get rain up

[rustic mountain]

its trade offs, both are good if ur talking that cir team

[long narwhal]

what should be the calyrex shadow evs?

[rustic mountain]

they help elevate different portions of the archetype

[devout nebula]

oh god

[misty helm]

so does it count as legend spam if you use a team full of pseudo legendary Pokemon

[zinc totem]

yeah. either get threatened by priority moves but counter sun teams, or block prankster t-waves and priority moves but sun teams might be problem

so whichever is bigger problem, its better use pokemon that helps with that

[long narwhal]

What does grassy and physic terrain do

[rustic mountain]

i mean again depends what set u opt into. if ur unsure where to start theres sites like munchstats and pikalytics (to a lesser extent) that compile data of what people mostly use for spreads and you can usually get a baseline there of where to start. id honestly recommend using rental teams to start and get a better understanding of the game and as a result know better where to put those evs and why ur putting them where u are

[zinc totem]

grassy terrain gives healing while psychic terrain stops priority moves and makes one move hit two target instead of one (e force)

[rustic mountain]

like lo csr isnt running the same evs as cm csr or np csr etc

[rustic mountain]

p much yea

idt sun is unwinnable w/o pelipper its just harder

[zinc totem]

here big brain move: run both and drop shifu or inci

[rustic mountain]

lmao

i personally havent felt the need to switch out peli

but i get the reasonings behind it

[zinc totem]

for me i pref fari many situations tho i do run both fari and peli in one of my teams

[rustic mountain]

oh god haha

[zinc totem]

wide guard timings are painful

[rustic mountain]

i barely click it anymore

cuz i jus assume they r gna play around it

usually works

[zinc totem]

yeah, i get every 5th game one wide guard block when they bring in obvious pokemon that does heatwave or snarl

[bold geode]

Tree

[rustic mountain]

or do it once and then assume they wont repeat it again

[zinc totem]

yeah

you get one wide guard against shadow riders

[rustic mountain]

i had 1 game i forced a terapagos who terra'd into earth powering my cir and im like bruh, its joever

[bold geode]

Tree
We got fuckin Dinwiddie again

[zinc totem]

but if they run chi-yu you can use couple times wide guard as its mostly scarfyu unless they got water shifu

[rustic mountain]

like they couldnt ko peli to stop wide guard but they couldnt ko my cir fast enough

[rustic mountain]

dinshittie

dude was ass for the lakers

[zinc totem]

lmao specpagos

[bold geode]

Idt he was bad for the Mavs before?

[rustic mountain]

nah it was cm set but yea specs gets even more screwed

[rustic mountain]

he sucks now

dude couldnt hit a 3 to save a life

[zinc totem]

im surprised they didnt play mind games on you EP EP and then aoe you

[bold geode]

Yeah lmao
I was starting to say like we got Irving, Luka, and Klay already with other shit
We just slapping Dinwiddie on there for the fuck of it

[nocturne holly]

Yea I am it’s quite situational on when I want them

[rustic mountain]

[bold geode]

He was signed to a one year though so

[nocturne holly]

Like peli can be a game changer with rain and wide guard

But so can fari with anti fo and tr

[rustic mountain]

mavs need more frontcourt help

[zinc totem]

but i do find CM pagos one of most annnoying matchups reason why i run taunt now on inci instead of willo

[bold geode]

They need more bigs?

[rustic mountain]

oh fr? i dont find cm annoying at all

[nocturne holly]

But peli does have damage over fari

[bold geode]

We already got Lively Gafford and Washington still right?

[rustic mountain]

gafford and lively is enough?

[bold geode]

Got Washington
I know we lost Jones Jr

[rustic mountain]

washington is a 3 no? and a 4 ig in small ball lineups

[zinc totem]

fr, beacuse i need otherwise make hard read if they gonna CM or not

[bold geode]

He played 4 usually
Might've went small ball actually

[rustic mountain]

hes like 6'8 lmao wow

[bold geode]

Ain't that Lebron's height?

Yeah Lebron's a 3 lmao
The one thing I still won't believe ever is saying KD is 6'9"

[rustic mountain]

yea i think p shotting it is usually fine imo, and since ive been running cir, the sp def boosts dont really matter. non boosted cm terapagos isnt that threatening

[rustic mountain]

well bron has been everything

[zinc totem]

reason why i taunt them, beacuse with tailwind my inci moves faster most of time so iget taunt off and if they CM, they cant boost

[rustic mountain]

nah kd jus hates himself that hes 7'

[zinc totem]

meaning i either force the switch or they are forced to tera and attack

[bold geode]

Idk I think Mavs are really building around their strong backcourt
Sorta like Portland did

[timber falcon]

https://pokepast.es/0b8751388103fe79 i keep losing to iron hands miraidon, what to do

[rustic mountain]

yea i mean if it works for u. i jus really like wow in the mirror and some other cases

[bold geode]

Except it got Dallas further

[timber falcon]

would a fairy type like flutter help?

[rustic mountain]

cuz they are better

luka is a better dame and irvings a much better mccollum

[bold geode]

Oh yeah
Imma be real, I forgot McCollum existed

[rustic mountain]

[rustic mountain]

whims + tw and u get outsped. id say adding some terrain control thru rilla

give u a fwg core w/ volc/urshi/rilla

[bold geode]

I'm just worried about the Warriors now
I'm wondering how Hield gonna do

[rustic mountain]

idk if electabuzz is that helpful there

[zinc totem]

yeah i was looking at electabuzz that it probably hinders team a lot

[timber falcon]

is very helpful

[rustic mountain]

worried as in u think theyll b good?

[bold geode]

Opposite

[rustic mountain]

oh lmfao why do u care tho?

they r likely a play in team w/ that roster

[bold geode]

I don't really

[rustic mountain]

into what?

i get it on the cir team but other then just trynna plug it in here i dont see the point

u dont have the power that team does

[bold geode]

Hell idk let's see here
They got Curry
Maybe Wiggins can step up
Green ain't shit usually unless they put boxing gloves in the NBA
And Hield is just like eh

[rustic mountain]

play in team. greens still good but hes gta jus stay on the court

wiggins needs to find himself again

[bold geode]

Yeah
He gotta stop confusing the buzzer with a bell

[rustic mountain]

yep

[timber falcon]

redirection, idt anything kills it on one hit, its not so slow so eweb can do stuff, taunt for moongus, and overall very bulky with eviolite

[zinc totem]

you could try swap areound some pokemons like buzz into indeedee/fari (personally i think indeedee is better follow me pokemon than electa) to stop fakeout from iron hands and maybe ting-lu to rilla or just swap electa into rilla . ofcourse im not experience enough say for sure but its good to experiment with a bit differend setups.

[bold geode]

Yeah no, no bias but rn if I gotta choose a finals based off of off-season so far
Mavs vs 76ers

[timber falcon]

i do not think indeedee helps this team, purely cause its not as bulky and has a more exposed typing

not many powerful groudn type moves threten it

[zinc totem]

have you checked indeedee-f?

[timber falcon]

yes

ik what indeedee-f is like

ive had 0 problems with electabuzz

[rustic mountain]

i get its value i jus dont know if it works on ur team, u got a lot of underused mons. usually u can get by w/ 1 or 2 but ur whole team other then urshi is like 2% or less useage. u want that follow me value to let a hard hitter get atleast 2 attacks off and basically wipe ur opponents resources. u have to set up before even getting there and then u can jus be outsped and ko'd before doing much

[rustic mountain]

maybe electabuzz specifically isnt the issue but the team comp is kind of all over the place. i dont know really what it wants to do and ur all in approach for ray can backfire quite easy

[jade dust]

I barely get any higher per win but

Staying top 500 at least

[rustic mountain]

thats what happens the higher u get

[timber falcon]

the plan is set up and kill as much as possible.

[rustic mountain]

also depends on the rank u play

[rustic mountain]

yea sorry like i said i just dont see it being consistent enough

[timber falcon]

ive never found it so be incinsitent

[zinc totem]

then you defo want swap ting-lu probably for rilla if you want keep electa in team

fake out is pretty big to help for setup

[devout nebula]

how many vitamins to max out a stat

[rustic mountain]

26

or 25 and 2 of a stat feather

[timber falcon]

true i dont have FO rn

[jade dust]

I mean this is doubles

Master ball tier

[rustic mountain]

yea?

[jade dust]

But yes that’s true, the higher you are the less your placement changes

[zinc totem]

also beacuse you run rage powder volcarona, follow me electra also isnt that necessity imo

[timber falcon]

rage powder is flawed, volc is only there for cir

cause of grass types

and goggles

[rustic mountain]

rank still exists in masters, if u beat rank 2000 ur not getting the same rank up u would if u beat rank 10

[jade dust]

Yeah I get matches from people outside of top 500

I didn’t consider that

[rustic mountain]

it depends, the longer it takes the farther out of ur pool it searches

[rustic mountain]

i mean fair enough but u are coming here asking for spreads and mu help. obviously the team isnt quite there

[zinc totem]

well you could then swap volcarona freely something else aswell

but as tree said rilla/shifu/volc core might be something you could try build around for

[devout nebula]

what nature is best on urshifu water

[zinc totem]

if scarf Jolly, if bulky mystic water adamant

[devout nebula]

im using choic scarf

max speed and attack

[rustic mountain]

i run scarf adamant

[devout nebula]

adamant is good acc

[timber falcon]

i mean

there is a missing member slot im trying to find out, so ive been using these 5 to find out what mon helps the crack

[rustic mountain]

i like the extra damage boost especially since i generally dont go max atk

[devout nebula]

nah urshifu normally doesn ohko with adamant and max attack it might

ohko some pokemon

[zinc totem]

well put rila into team and see how it fares

[timber falcon]

Wait why rilla again?

[zinc totem]

it contests with miraidon terrain

and fakeout is huge support move

[devout nebula]

• really good pokemon

wood hammer u turn grassy glide are all good moves u can use on him

grassy glide is pirority with his hidden ability grassy surge

[zinc totem]

av rilla is pretty bulky

[rustic mountain]

my first suggestion still stands, jus suggesting replacing other members too cuz the all in approach for ray jus doesnt seem enough imo is all

[devout nebula]

imo he worked really well with ogerpon hearthflame

[rustic mountain]

ur obviously free to disagree

[timber falcon]

Cause the core i started with was ray, ursh, and electabuzz

[devout nebula]

help ogerpon get a swords dance off

since ogerpon can tank atleast 1 hit

[timber falcon]

I think I’ll restart from that fire

Core*

You’re right, I think I have gone the wrong way

[chrome knot]

adamant both lmfao

[chrome knot]

scarf already outspeeds everything

[jade dust]

I had fun with this team

But next season I’ll use something more optimal

[devout nebula]

i want my urshifu to do as much damage since he outspeeds almost

everything in the game

[zinc totem]

Rillaboom @ Assault Vest
Ability: Grassy Surge
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Atk / 4 Def / 76 SpD / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Grassy Glide
• Wood Hammer
• Fake Out
• U-turn

you can try this rilla btw

[timber falcon]

Lorb swampert? Interesting

[rustic mountain]

booster flutter

[timber falcon]

What’s this set called fo?

[bold geode]

Can we hit the cycle of Caly S losing again thank you lol

[devout nebula]

most different rillaboom set

[timber falcon]

YOU

[chrome knot]

erm booster bundle ermmmm ermmm like shut up!!!!

[devout nebula]

[timber falcon]

the person I wanted to see

[jade dust]

Yes lmao. It caught a lot of people off guard that I had wide guard

[rustic mountain]

except flutter is actually used?

[chrome knot]

I fear common sense should tell you you ALWAYS are outsped by it

[timber falcon]

Monke, you made a successful ray team I’ve, what approach did you have? I remember it not being HO

[rustic mountain]

i fear u were misleading saying it outspeeds everything

[bold geode]

Like I don't hate it
Just saying so I can have one less Ghost type for Zama to worry about

[rustic mountain]

[zinc totem]

well you can go max speed/attack of max hp/attack if you want, for me that gives it abit more bulk all around tho it might not be best spread but works for me

[devout nebula]

im so drained i cant be asked to grind for ability patches

[glad osprey]

I want a ray team lol

That is prob fav mon ever

[chrome knot]

I fear you gotta be dumb to think urshifu outspeeds booster :v

[rustic mountain]

ray is cool

[glad osprey]

looks so dope

[chrome knot]

i meant Adamant already outspeeds what you're hitting with timid therefore no need for extra speed

in favour you can have extra damage

[bold geode]

Simple
So first off, Rayquaza came from a poll (I'm not doing Palkia fuck you)
I realized that Ray is different from Dnite therefore I said I'd go for an approach of fixing MUs instead of doing like Ray Pao (cuz it genuinely doesn't feel good)

[rustic mountain]

a lot of people are newer here without a full understanding of the games interactions. i think its important to clarify and not make blanket statements and then when corrected get salty and toxic about it

[chrome knot]

??????

[rustic mountain]

no need to say people are dumb or w/e else. everyone is learning

[timber falcon]

Ok thanks you

[gentle crag]

otot8953 has given 1 Gen Rep to dollarmonke

[glad osprey]

Is there a rental to the ray team

[chrome knot]

brain hurts

[glad osprey]

i need a competitive pokemon VC

[bold geode]

Then I got the idea of Hitmontop cuz of its package plus CIR is a weak MU
Hit has Wide Guard
It can help Ray set up and protect it and Intimidate

[zinc totem]

i think emma meant that it outspeed most common threats like shadow rider and such. flutter usage is maybe 18%?

[chrome knot]

flutter usage is quite high

[devout nebula]

isnt flutter like stupid broken

18% is dummy low

[rustic mountain]

u said it outspeeds everything, it doesnt then when said thats the case ur saying shut up and bringing irrelevant info like oh well bundle outspeeds and that someones dumb if they dont know it outspeeds. like some people actually dont know that? haha i just dont understand the approach and attitude there

not everyones operating on the same level of game knowledge

[devout nebula]

?

rah

[bold geode]

From there @timber falcon
I thought either can it help Ray or can Ray help it
Rilla, Ting and Ghold help Ray and Ray helps Ursh
Boom

[chrome knot]

this is hilarious because ursh outspeeds quite literally everything used in the format EXCEPT flutter & the item + already given speed stat should already paint the clear picture

by a cute 1pt over csr lmao

[zinc totem]

while i agree with emmabun, i do understand why tree say need clafirication

[chrome knot]

I do not see the need for clarification for the 1 extreme example ._. but I guess so

[rustic mountain]

but u didnt say that originally is all. also if we are being technical, scarf jolly ape also outspeeds

my point was more there are cases where it doesnt

[chrome knot]

but its not in the format like booster/eterrain bundle!!

[zinc totem]

which i definetly agree most part but some people do take word everything literally till they see that "oh wait it wont outspeed these"

[rustic mountain]

scarf ape is on a decent # of the cir teams

[bold geode]

Thx Underhill

[rustic mountain]

not patcon 6 level but

[rustic mountain]

hence my point

some ppl are learning those basics still

[zinc totem]

but emma has abit stronger point beacuse there is thing callled common sense which means people already have read the abilities of certain pokemons like flutter

so people who would take it literally is very small amount of people

[bold geode]

I mean not to be rude (not throwing shots), but common sense is just called sense now

[zinc totem]

https://tenor.com/view/youknow-you-gif-19056787

[rustic mountain]

what u think people have is the issue. common sense is not common

[bold geode]

See, I'm talking shit like I have any

[rustic mountain]

and again ur approaching it from ur baseline understanding of the game, not everybody is coming in thinking of the game in the same way to be like oh yea booster flutter that totally will outspeed this. theres so much info to take in when u first start playing it takes a bit to really understand all the puzzle pieces before putting them together

[chrome knot]

I fear seeing this is quite fucking jarring no ?

[zinc totem]

you also need take into consideration that if they are coming into competitive, they've done amount of research to extend

[rustic mountain]

dude have u been in this channel?

[bold geode]

I mean also yeah it's kinda common sense to us cuz we know stuff

[chrome knot]

LOL

you got a good point there

[rustic mountain]

im only speaking from experience. ud hope and think so. often times its not the case. i just try to approach it knowing that is all

[bold geode]

Yeah you think mfers do research to ask "what's the best Chimchar spread for my little game of rock paper scissors with Billy down the road"?

[nocturne holly]

idiot it’s either rock paper or scissors

[zinc totem]

yes and i've seen dumb shit. dumber than what i've said but i also seen majority atleast have somewhat knowledge

[nocturne holly]

are you one of those ro sham bo weirdos

[chrome knot]

@bold geode so what mon is it

[bold geode]

Probably Koraidon

[chrome knot]

no restricted stat lines are crazy

[bold geode]

Oh it had good attack and same speed so

Can't be Chien Pao

[chrome knot]

[bold geode]

No way that's Pao

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 1002: Chien-Pao

Types

Dark/Ice

Abilities

Sword of Ruin

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

80/120/80/90/65/135

Total

570

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[bold geode]

Damn it was Pao

I thought Pao was frailer

[chrome knot]

80 80 65 is QUITE frail

[zinc totem]

https://tenor.com/view/chien-pao-yippee-jump-happy-dance-gif-27595010

[bold geode]

Yeah
Actually wait no I'm thinking Bundle HP shit

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 191: Sunkern

Type

Grass

Abilities

Chlorophyll, Solar Power, Early Bird (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

30/30/30/30/30/30

Total

180

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[zinc totem]

Hot take: scarf pao outspeeds scarfshifu

[nocturne holly]

isn’t there a Mon with 5 in every stat

[chrome knot]

thats not a hot take thats how numbers work .

[rustic mountain]

the clarification is moreso for the general eye. theres also plenty ppl that dont

[bold geode]

Chansey has 5 Defense

[chrome knot]

k maybe ur right @rustic mountain

i take it back you win after reading that

[rustic mountain]

lmao

[chrome knot]

hitmonlee stankey leg

[bold geode]

Emma you forget literacy is dead

[chrome knot]

https://tenor.com/view/dumb-chansey-pokemon-idiot-upside-down-gif-16626866

[zinc totem]

Question is does scarfpao outspeed booster flutter

[chrome knot]

speed tie...,

[bold geode]

Ties unless one is boosting speed and one ain't

[rustic mountain]

gf trolled us heavy this gen. koraidon, flutter, pao and miraidon all speed tieing

[bold geode]

Or natures or EVs aren't maxed

[zinc totem]

Damn so close have scarf that outspeed everything

[rustic mountain]

even tho most mirai go modest and idt koraidon is ever max jolly

so they dont actually come up much but still

[bold geode]

Until I use Jolly Pao and every Miraidon is Modest

[rustic mountain]

just the fact they could speed tie tho haha

[zinc totem]

Modest specs mira is most used i think

[rustic mountain]

yea

[zinc totem]

Tho i got rekt by scarf mira

Was surprise to me ngl

[nocturne holly]

why scarf mirai

[rustic mountain]

yea i played a scarf korai w/ dual weather torkoal that beat me. got them on the runback tho

[nocturne holly]

imagine losing

[zinc totem]

No idea thats why i got rekt cuz thought was specs

[nocturne holly]

just like idk win

bo3 is like impossible on my phone

There’s like so much to look at on such a little screen

[rustic mountain]

i cant do sd on mobile lmao

[nocturne holly]

why

[bold geode]

Man I wish P2 actually fuckin did something

[rustic mountain]

it does

[nocturne holly]

I wish you fucking did something

[rustic mountain]

it can set tr

[bold geode]

Well I mean other than sit there really

[rustic mountain]

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 233: Porygon2

Type

Normal

Abilities

Trace, Download, Analytic (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

85/80/90/105/95/60

Total

515

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[bold geode]

Like it sets TR and kinda
Sits there tbh

[rustic mountain]

cuz it sucks

[chrome knot]

+SpAtk download ice beam goes crazy

[dapper crag]

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/ani-shiny/calyrex-shadow.gif

[rustic mountain]

i was more making the joke all it does is set tr

[dapper crag]

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/ani-shiny/calyrex-ice.gif

[solid frigate]

i'm having Seziures

[solid frigate]

I'm also Having Seziures

[nocturne holly]

No way those are the shinies

[chrome knot]

but it doesnt it sets tr then does damage and is an annoying bitch

[rustic mountain]

yes way

[bold geode]

Nah we Trace
Although like
It could probably take a Glacial Lance and hell it's another bulky Normal type that can set TR, therefore it'd be nice against Caly S

[nocturne holly]

P2 does like a ton of chip

I imagine it’s good with terapagos because you can close games after all the chip with Tera star storm

[rustic mountain]

i def think there will be that 1 p2 team at worlds but overall i dont think its as strong an option as other mons on similar comps. like i think having an enabler like smeargle for cir or even just the balance stuff like patcon 6 is just better then having to slot it there. and other then that idk what other team comp it would exist on outside a lunala or dawn wings team potentially

[chrome knot]

idt p2 will see much play this worlds imo

[rustic mountain]

its not a bad mon by any means but im not sure this meta is beneficial for it. in dmax it could soak up any hit really and jus set tr and recover it off which was really valuable

[chrome knot]

this format is fucking STRONG rn

[rustic mountain]

yea exactly

[chrome knot]

some new flavour of cir is gonna win (hearthflame) or aurelien soula takes it

[rustic mountain]

i feel like ur really high on hearthflame

[chrome knot]

its so fucking strong on balance

oh my god fairy DA

[rustic mountain]

yea

it kinda nosedived for awhile there ive only recently see it come back on a few teams

[chrome knot]

cir needs a solid foundation in the zam mu

and guess who provides for the family ! ! !

[rustic mountain]

it always ohkos?

[chrome knot]

tera + coaching/hh yes

[rustic mountain]

[chrome knot]

which is like the most flexible setup ever

[rustic mountain]

i feel that, it gives more optionality in the mu which is otherwise more an uphill battle

[chrome knot]

it is a nightmare

[rustic mountain]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2164086171-mtip9n6efnvwe2q0xggic8unotlpb9gpw
i felt good winning this the other day cuz i was lookin at team preview like wtf do i do lmao. dude was decently high up

not the standard zama comp but yea

[chrome knot]

clean

[rustic mountain]

yea mostly middle ground plays, i wasnt really predicting the tera on pao there i jus wanted it wisped

[chrome knot]

wisp is always best bet anyways

[rustic mountain]

yea

[chrome knot]

1 turn gotcha vs crippling the cat lmao

[rustic mountain]

fake out doesnt really get me much there

generally tho

zama is a bitch to vs

especially cuz wow ghost tera is so obvious now. good players either play around it or have answers (ran into a player running taunt rilla)

which like once i knew i played around that but still it muddys up the mu

[chrome knot]

@craggy dagger :<

ALL OF THEM HAVE APPEARED EXCEPT FOR FINI LIKE EVERY FAIRY TYPE OPTION AHNIFAWSHFUAWYHFGBWUA

[nocturne holly]

Remember matcha gatcha sinistcha

[zinc totem]

zama also playts around incine

[nocturne holly]

I miss that

and then the ability was also hella fun

And then rage powder and stuff

[pallid hare]

Tapu Buwu

[chrome knot]

buwu just 1v4'd in 1 turn

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 1013: Sinistcha

Types

Grass/Ghost

Abilities

Hospitality, Heatproof (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

71/60/106/121/80/70

Total

508

Other Formes

Sinistcha-Masterpiece

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[sweet swallow]

Wisp doesn't actually make zama do less damage with body press right?

[chrome knot]

bc my WHOLE team was grass weak lmao

[nocturne holly]

It does

1/2 all physical damage

[sweet swallow]

Ahhhh

[dapper crag]

Move: Will-O-Wisp

Burns the target.

Type

Fire

Category

Status

Power

0

Accuracy

85

PP (max)

15 (24)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Does not make contact.

Reflectable

Affected by Magic Coat and Magic Bounce.

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[sweet swallow]

Physical damage, not atk stat c:

Got it! Thanks :DD

[nocturne holly]

Yep

[austere pilot]

is there any resource that has plenty of teams that I can use and explains them? ie a certain pokemon's role in the team, why it has x and y move, things that it should capitalize on from other teammates etc

[rustic mountain]

cybertronvgc on youtube

[next stump]

https://www.youtube.com/@CybertronVGC

https://www.youtube.com/@TalonVGC

https://www.youtube.com/@ck49vgc

[austere pilot]

I wanna get into vgc but I find team building really overwhelming

[rustic mountain]

understandable, its a good way to learn the game using other well established teams

[next stump]

that's the beauty of it, there really isn't a reason to teambuild as a new player

[rustic mountain]

i mostly yoink peoples teams myself

[austere pilot]

true but whats the point of using a team if you know nothing about what it does lmao

[rustic mountain]

hence the resources he linked

[austere pilot]

I'll check em out! thanks a lot

[rustic mountain]

cant speak for talon but adi and cybertron def have good breakdowns of the teams they feature in different ways

aaron gives a breakdown of the team early on in the vid that hits the ladder. adi talks w/ the pilots/teambuilders about all their choices and their tour runs etc

[next stump]

Talon takes teams from tournaments that don’t have public spreads, creates a rental based off his best guess on spreads, and uses the teams

[rustic mountain]

i do the same except no rental or vids

thats cool

[chrome knot]

DAs make me so eepy bruh

i hate these just give me finito

[rustic mountain]

im guessing u havent caught many either which means the pool of legends is even wider

[foggy lodge]

I hate this meta

Inci top 3😭

[rustic mountain]

also u never know, while finding fini u could get another shiny legend along the way

i got xurk and one of the lake trio i think mesprit

that way

[rustic mountain]

all on my team currently

the big dogs

[chrome knot]

is that how it works…

[rustic mountain]

if ur solo yea

if its online it goes into everyones pool iirc

[chrome knot]

im about to puke

you can go ahead and guess what ive caught already

[rustic mountain]

u caught fini?

[chrome knot]

n o n e o f t h e m

[rustic mountain]

or u just mean u did the first catch run w/ suicune

oh lmao

[chrome knot]

not even suicune lmfao

[rustic mountain]

yea so its 47 legends

[chrome knot]

holy fuck

[rustic mountain]

including ubs

[chrome knot]

ive seen rayquaza 4 times in a row

[rustic mountain]

jesus

[chrome knot]

offline

OFFLINE !!!! its always dragons with 0 fairy spaces

its so annoying

[rustic mountain]

ive gotten a few b2b idk bout 4 times in a row

that sucks

[chrome knot]

maybe i need an outfit change

[rustic mountain]

swsh fashion > sv fashion

[solid frigate]

true

[chrome knot]

i look too much like a basic white girl for finis style of clothing

[rustic mountain]

any idea what ball ur gna use

[chrome knot]

love for ball effect

[rustic mountain]

cool

[chrome knot]

its just

GETTING THERE (!)

[rustic mountain]

yea

thats the annoying part, u can always ask in the da channel if anyone has the path

i think its mostly dead but u never know

[chrome knot]

i cannot

[rustic mountain]

oh

[chrome knot]

look roles

[glad osprey]

Why did chat gpt actually make me a good team

[rustic mountain]

ahhh gotcha

[chrome knot]

otherwise i woulda asked

like 3 days ago

[molten oasis]

Emma how’s the grind?

[chrome knot]

im getting superstitious and changing my outfit

[rustic mountain]

some ppl might not know it exists or think cuz its dead theres no point but yea i get it now

[chrome knot]

ill leave you to decide where i am on the mental scale

[molten oasis]

Broken probably

[chrome knot]

hehe a little

[rustic mountain]

any music u got playing or show ur watching?

[chrome knot]

i just wanna go to locals and play vgc

[molten oasis]

lol

[rustic mountain]

def helps pass the time, das are pretty rough otherwise

[chrome knot]

music yes and sometimes youtube

i was too focused on youtube i forgot to use reflect vs buwu

and it 1v4’d in a single turn

[rustic mountain]

damn

[chrome knot]

was kinda hilarious

my entire team was grass weak

[rustic mountain]

only time bulu is good

[molten oasis]

Lmao

[chrome knot]

SHE NEEDS A NEW OUTFIT ! !

[rustic mountain]

whose the bulu of the ruin mons

[molten oasis]

Remember, the tapus are koko fini lele and rilla

Cute outfit

[solid frigate]

mhm

[chrome knot]

why is there 1 entire sports bra option

[molten oasis]

LOL

[pallid hare]

Wo Chien

[rustic mountain]

yea

pao would be lele, chi yu would be koko and ting lu would be fini

poor grass legends

[chrome knot]

aight suns out guns out

[molten oasis]

Rilla would be wo chien

[chrome knot]

im never playing online again

flying type legendary and we dodged

• Alolan Raichu
• An electric type I couldn't see the outline of

[molten oasis]

That’s rough

[craggy dagger]

meow

[chrome knot]

novaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[rustic mountain]

[molten oasis]

Gotta complete the quartet somehow, and bulu got kicked, bcuz rilla

[craggy dagger]

hi

[chrome knot]

:((((

[rustic mountain]

where does rilla come in there tho haha like ur saying its the grass legend?

[molten oasis]

Yes

[chrome knot]

AAHH BUWU IS BACK

WE'RE ALL WEAK TO FAIRYYYY

[rustic mountain]

yea but i was asking who the ruin equivalents of the tapus were. we all know tapu rilla

[foggy lodge]

[molten oasis]

Fair enough lol

[molten oasis]

Is this a person you play with?

[chrome knot]

tapu bulu

[plain drum]

Fashion hasn’t been the same since Gens 6 and 7

X/Y the goat here

Not that SwSh was too bad, but some things still felt missing

[molten oasis]

oh ok

[frail grove]

Are there any usable blastoise sets in the current season?

[next stump]

I haven't seen a single on in hundreds of games

If you are going to use it, probably something like Helping Hand/Yawn/etc.

[chrome knot]

@craggy dagger pleasseeeeeeee

play toys with me :(

[rustic mountain]

rip stoise

atleast it had some use case in swsh

[chrome knot]

holy christ

watching someone play ranked doubles in "master ball" in call is bonkers like this isnt a real tier

[rustic mountain]

ngl i didnt even know it was still a thing

[chrome knot]

its tough to watch im ngl

[rustic mountain]

oh wait nvm lmao i misread but yea cart can be very different

the real craziness is rank 8 great ball when u get reset every month

[jade dust]

Probably to set pledge

With follow me and fake out

[rustic mountain]

yawnbot

[frail grove]

Aight

[jade dust]

I considered playing ladder in smogon but then I saw how there is a lot of toxic people there. Specially those kids that don’t understand game mechanics and call you a hacker lmao

Tho it might be funny to run a troll team

people here already think I’m running a troll team anyway

[next stump]

like Doubles OU?

[chrome knot]

how do you even hack on showdown....?

[modern harbor]

i realized zama rly isnt that bad into CIR

[chrome knot]

which way

like zam --> cir or cir --> zam

[modern harbor]

my team zama isnt that bad against cir

[foggy lodge]

tbh when i didn't play showdown i just saw videos on yt about those "salty player🔥🔥" and i thought that it really was a toxic community

[chrome knot]

its supposed to be good into it....

[modern harbor]

i know

[foggy lodge]

But i've never seen anyone like that in the showdown chat lol

[modern harbor]

but it struggles usually with trick room bc i dont hav reversing tr

[foggy lodge]

Atleast in my case

[modern harbor]

and my whole team is fast

[chrome knot]

you take like 0 dmg and deal back about 3000

[modern harbor]

so redirect/spore/incin was rly hard to do

[modern harbor]

ok also both moves do less than half unless im iron defense

[foggy lodge]

Your zama is iron defense or wide guard?

[hazy vector]

Hello

[modern harbor]

its body press iron defense protect heavy slam

[chrome knot]

currently manifesting your want to play dynamax adventures with me rn

[hazy vector]

Made my team

[modern harbor]

i was running wide guard instead of iron defense for a while but didnt like it

[modern harbor]

I WILL SOON I HAVE TO WORK A LITTLE AND THEN PICK UP SOMEONE FROM THE AIRPORT

[chrome knot]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[modern harbor]

i found that people like to play a no prediction game, and just click SGT moves into zama teams

[next stump]

Lead Zamazenta + something else threatening (I don’t remember your exact team) and you can usually get up a free iron defense

then just protect every turn you can during trick room and the game is usually pretty easy

[modern harbor]

but if i find a way to get iron defense turn one and have ogerpon late game for spore redirect etc

[modern harbor]

this!

only problem is high horsepower still does decent dmg and i cant tera dragon bc of glacial lance so it can get a little bit tricky but

[foggy lodge]

Atleast for me the only lead that could be problematic is the Urshifu/Pelipper lead

[modern harbor]

but i found that ogerpon is rly clutch bc ivy cudgel 1 shots fari, redirects spore, and spiky shield is nice

plus grassy glide if i bring rilla

[modern harbor]

yeah i feel like an electric or rock attack somewhere would be nice

[foggy lodge]

Which Ogerpon do you use?

[modern harbor]

fire

[foggy lodge]

Ah

[jade dust]

Yes doubles OU

[chrome knot]

DUBS

[modern harbor]

i luv fire ogerpon rock = uglier

[chrome knot]

LOL

[foggy lodge]

whyyy

It's still Ogerpon

[modern harbor]

the maskkkk

[foggy lodge]

I don't like the terastal

[modern harbor]

same

I HOPE THEY DISTRIBUTE SHINY OGERPON AT WORLDS OR JUST IN GENERAL

[craggy dagger]

shiny pon is cute

[foggy lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/ogerpon-ivy-cudgel-kitakami-amoonguss-gif-2589179404536318779

[craggy dagger]

but shiny chi yu better

[chrome knot]

shiny chien pao

[modern harbor]

but i like ogerpon fire bc tera makes it resist glacial lance but not tera makes it follow me spores

[modern harbor]

I WANT

[chrome knot]

have you ever played exo sky @modern harbor

explorers^

[modern harbor]

for me its

1. shiny ogerpon
2. shiny chien pao
3. shiny chi yu
4. shiny koraidon

[modern harbor]

i played exploreres of time

[chrome knot]

hmmmm

good enough

[balmy glen]

It’s because it’s click bait

Or people trolling

[jade dust]

I mean I do believe there genuinely is toxic people

[foggy lodge]

Yeah

[modern harbor]

ItS oVer
YoU haVe 2 MoNs I hAve 6 LeGenDariEs

custom game where they give them a free sweep to showcase some strat

[foggy lodge]

https://x.com/WeSpikeANDSpin/status/1813916470931226851?t=7dA9fzdQtc6gVZ1vb2hNpg&s=19

FourTrees!? (@WeSpikeANDSpin) on X

🗣📢

Twitter · Jul 18, 2024, 12:39 PM

[modern harbor]

WHATTT!!11!1!1! NO WAY UR HACKING !! xxxxxxx SHOULDNT HAVE THAT ABILITY

REOORTED !1!1!1

[foggy lodge]

brainrot pokemon version

i hate those shorts

[jade dust]

Lmfao they are funny

[foggy lodge]

good thing i discovered how to desactivate them

[modern harbor]

and its never anything cool

[chrome knot]

@modern harbor do you like my outfit

[modern harbor]

YES

[molten oasis]

I pulled the alt art iron boulder card

[chrome knot]

yippieeee

[molten oasis]

And also these

[chrome knot]

prime catcher

[foggy lodge]

i remember one where a samurott didn't ko a Zac and the calc would imply that that Samurott was like 20 IV in atk to not kill the zac

[molten oasis]

Is prime catcher good?

(I don’t play tcg I just collect)

[jade dust]

The goat grass is still Amoonguss

[balmy glen]

Well yeah theres toxic people in every video game it’s not really avoidable just like irl it’s wtvr

Only difference is on cart you can’t see their messages kek

[jade dust]

Yeah that is true

It’s hilarious to watch

I just laugh when I lose to a meme team

[chrome knot]

yes

[molten oasis]

Sick

If I choose to make a deck I’ll use that

[tawdry urchin]

Hey pookies, In IVs what comes before 'No Good'?

[molten oasis]

Maybe, I play very rarely with a friend

[jade dust]

I lost to a team using Oinkologne female in top 500 and was hilarious

[foggy lodge]

Nothing

[jade dust]

They used stockpile body press

[foggy lodge]

No good is 0 ivs

[jade dust]

Tera bug

[molten oasis]

skill issue

[tawdry urchin]

Ik but I have tried to trade for a curtain pokemon with No good in it's speed IV and I might just go to the one before it because It's been like a month...

[chrome knot]

go in ancient box and decks where if u have no idea which ace spec to use prime catcher is ur go to

[molten oasis]

Sounds good Ty

[jade dust]

Is Dondozo still good?

Or just niche?

[craggy dagger]

eh
depends

[foggy lodge]

Ah

1iv is the same as 0iv tho

[jade dust]

I don’t have any problem dealing with dondozo cuz I run Amoonguss, and it shuts it down very effectively

But maybe teams without haze or Amoonguss struggle with it

[devout nebula]

is spd or defense ev best on farigraf

[jade dust]

Nature or EVs?

[devout nebula]

evs

[jade dust]

Half and half

[devout nebula]

alrighty

[modern harbor]

its crazy that +5 body press doesnt 2hko amoonguss lol

[devout nebula]

no way

[nocturne holly]

Don’t underestimate the shroom

It’s also resisted so

[modern harbor]

but +5 stab base 115 def 😭

i mean i dont have the craziest investment in def but stilll

[nocturne holly]

Zam bp right

[modern harbor]

yea

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 889: Zamazenta-Crowned

Types

Fighting/Steel

Abilities

Dauntless Shield

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

92/120/140/80/140/128

Total

700

Base Species

Zamazenta

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[jade dust]

It’s amoonguss lol

Built to tank hits

[modern harbor]

o wait yea crowned is way higher

[jade dust]

It survived an astral barrage of a caly s at +2

And slept it

[modern harbor]

i hate amoonguss

[jade dust]

That’s how I won that match lmao

It survived with like 10 hp

[modern harbor]

i think it does die to +1 tera fire ivy cudgel tho lol

[craggy dagger]

it dies to a +0 252+ hurricane :3

[modern harbor]

from?

also it dies 12.5% from regular ivy cudgel

[chrome knot]

@craggy dagger hey……..

[jade dust]

No

It survives with like 30% hp

[craggy dagger]

hi-

[jade dust]

From pelipper right?

[chrome knot]

mmmmmm

can you help meee….

[jade dust]

I love the animation of spore

It looks hilarious

[modern harbor]

yawn better

AAAAUAAAGH

[jade dust]

That one is great too

[chrome knot]

waowa waowa

[jade dust]

Spore shakes a mushroom in their face and I love it

[nocturne holly]

Was it a normal zam?

[modern harbor]

nope

[craggy dagger]

wish i could TwT

[modern harbor]

just looked up zama base stats and read tbe wrong one

still anything surviving a +5 press from zama is insane

[nocturne holly]

zam is annoying as hell for cir

I might try hearth flame

But amoonguss is so good on this team

[dapper crag]

[Latest Gen] Ursaluna-Bloodmoon

Fake Out:

• Ursaluna-Bloodmoon does not learn Fake Out in Generation 9

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[craggy dagger]

close enough
252+ SpA Moltres-Galar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 156 SpD Amoonguss: 174-206 (78.7 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[chrome knot]

pleaseeee

[modern harbor]

mold breaker ignores terapagos ability right?

nvm guess it doesnt

wtf

[craggy dagger]

nope

however-
teravolt/turboblaze do

[modern harbor]

that is called favoring the new legendary

[dapper crag]

Ability: Turboblaze

This Pokemon's moves and their effects ignore certain Abilities of other Pokemon. The Abilities that can be negated are Armor Tail, Aroma Veil, Aura Break, Battle Armor, Big Pecks, Bulletproof, Clear Body, Contrary, Damp, Dazzling, Disguise, Dry Skin, Earth Eater, Filter, Flash Fire, Flower Gift, Flower Veil, Fluffy, Friend Guard, Fur Coat, Good as Gold, Grass Pelt, Guard Dog, Heatproof, Heavy Metal, Hyper Cutter, Ice Face, Ice Scales, Illuminate, Immunity, Inner Focus, Insomnia, Keen Eye, Leaf Guard, Levitate, Light Metal, Lightning Rod, Limber, Magic Bounce, Magma Armor, Marvel Scale, Mind's Eye, Mirror Armor, Motor Drive, Multiscale, Oblivious, Overcoat, Own Tempo, Pastel Veil, Punk Rock, Purifying Salt, Queenly Majesty, Sand Veil, Sap Sipper, Shell Armor, Shield Dust, Simple, Snow Cloak, Solid Rock, Soundproof, Sticky Hold, Storm Drain, Sturdy, Suction Cups, Sweet Veil, Tangled Feet, Telepathy, Tera Shell, Thermal Exchange, Thick Fat, Unaware, Vital Spirit, Volt Absorb, Water Absorb, Water Bubble, Water Veil, Well-Baked Body, White Smoke, Wind Rider, Wonder Guard, and Wonder Skin. This affects every other Pokemon on the field, whether or not it is a target of this Pokemon's move, and whether or not their Ability is beneficial to this Pokemon.

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[craggy dagger]

nevermind-?

my memory is failing me

[chrome knot]

you want to play swsh so badly novaaa

[modern harbor]

ME WHEN I PREDICT THE FLUTTER SWITCH AND CLICK HEAVY SLAM XD

[craggy dagger]

emma
im not home for a few days so i cant

OH WAIT NO IT CAN IGNORE TERA SHELL

[chrome knot]

noooooooooooooooooooooo

:((((((((

[nocturne holly]

It does

[dapper crag]

Ability: Tera Shell

If this Pokemon is a Terapagos at full HP, the effectiveness of attacks against it is changed to 0.5 unless this Pokemon is immune to the move. Multi-hit moves retain the same effectiveness throughout the attack.

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[craggy dagger]

my brain just isnt working today

[modern harbor]

isnt mold breaker supposed to ignore stuff exactly like this...

[nocturne holly]

mold breaker is the budget ability

turbo blaze and the other one are premium

[craggy dagger]

yes but no
mold breaker is mold breaker
Turboblaze/teravolt is different ig?

[dapper crag]

Ability: Mold Breaker

This Pokemon's moves and their effects ignore certain Abilities of other Pokemon. The Abilities that can be negated are Armor Tail, Aroma Veil, Aura Break, Battle Armor, Big Pecks, Bulletproof, Clear Body, Contrary, Damp, Dazzling, Disguise, Dry Skin, Earth Eater, Filter, Flash Fire, Flower Gift, Flower Veil, Fluffy, Friend Guard, Fur Coat, Good as Gold, Grass Pelt, Guard Dog, Heatproof, Heavy Metal, Hyper Cutter, Ice Face, Ice Scales, Illuminate, Immunity, Inner Focus, Insomnia, Keen Eye, Leaf Guard, Levitate, Light Metal, Lightning Rod, Limber, Magic Bounce, Magma Armor, Marvel Scale, Mind's Eye, Mirror Armor, Motor Drive, Multiscale, Oblivious, Overcoat, Own Tempo, Pastel Veil, Punk Rock, Purifying Salt, Queenly Majesty, Sand Veil, Sap Sipper, Shell Armor, Shield Dust, Simple, Snow Cloak, Solid Rock, Soundproof, Sticky Hold, Storm Drain, Sturdy, Suction Cups, Sweet Veil, Tangled Feet, Telepathy, Tera Shell, Thermal Exchange, Thick Fat, Unaware, Vital Spirit, Volt Absorb, Water Absorb, Water Bubble, Water Veil, Well-Baked Body, White Smoke, Wind Rider, Wonder Guard, and Wonder Skin. This affects every other Pokemon on the field, whether or not it is a target of this Pokemon's move, and whether or not their Ability is beneficial to this Pokemon.

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[nocturne holly]

Wait it does?

[modern harbor]

IT IGNORES ARMOR TAIL!!!????

[craggy dagger]

it ignores armor tail yes

[nocturne holly]

I think Sableye is wrong

[modern harbor]

BRO I COULD HAVE BEEN GRASSY GLIDING N SHI

[craggy dagger]

that’s why fake out tink was a thing

same with helping hand into gholdengo

[nocturne holly]

It also ignores good as gold so hh tink + dengo was also a thing

[modern harbor]

ohhh someone played that against me but it was rly shit

[nocturne holly]

Yea both are power crept

Wait but does mold breaker ignore Tera shell

[modern harbor]

wait it does

[craggy dagger]

don’t think so?
maybe it does-
anyone wanna test?

[molten oasis]

test what?

[modern harbor]

showdown calc says it does at least 🤷‍♀️

[molten oasis]

oh

[craggy dagger]

tera shell mold breaker

[molten oasis]

ik turboblaze works