competitive_discussion

[mighty stump]

Just a regular protect

[nocturne holly]

bruh

still not as disappointing as steller

[ember linden]

If it isn’t protect with burn it should be distributed to more mons I feel

[nocturne holly]

Stellar Tera looks absolute shit

[ember linden]

If it was that broken shit just keep it on gouging

[ember linden]

I’m going to try it on Rilla

[nocturne holly]

well isn’t it the same as like baneful bunker
Only poisons on contact and everything else bypasses it

[ember linden]

It’s good on porygon-Z imo

[nocturne holly]

I think pory would want a defensive Tera type tho

[ember linden]

Baneful bunker is protect but with poison to contact moves

But it protects status too

Like protect

[nocturne holly]

wait the gouging doesn’t protect status moves?

[ember linden]

Protect with a secondary effect

[nocturne holly]

what that’s absolute shit

[ember linden]

Nope, does not at all

[nocturne holly]

that’s fucking stupid lmao

[ember linden]

I think that move would be a little too good I respect TPC for doing that

I’m fine with it being that way too just don’t hella distribute it

[nocturne holly]

It should block status moves

It’s barely a protect move

[mighty stump]

The thing is

It's a signature

So like

[nocturne holly]

exactly

[ember linden]

Yeah

[mighty stump]

At least give us incentive to run it lol

[ember linden]

Right

[polar canyon]

They made hydro steam and thunderclap good

[mighty stump]

Okay to be fair

This is technically good

[ember linden]

Mhm

[mighty stump]

Like

Against certain scenarios

Like Hands/Rilla

Its a free burn

Combined with Weezing you can probably get it on Urshifu to proc as well

on Lando too

[ember linden]

Ivy Cudgel not being contact but Wood Hammer is is kinda dumb

[mighty stump]

Roaring Moon etc etc

Kingambit

[polar canyon]

I think wood hammer was something about hitting with a wood like part of the body

[mighty stump]

🪵

[ember linden]

Both moves aren’t connected to the mon

[polar canyon]

They're not gonna make an exception just because for ogerpon it's a weapon

[mighty stump]

I think that';s just animation

But anyways

[ember linden]

If it is connected to rilla then sure but it looks like it doesn’t

[polar canyon]

Ok most physical moves don't actually look like they make contact in the animation

Just a giant fist made of light or something like that

[ember linden]

But one name is a hammer and one name is a punch, jab etc

[exotic kindle]

why does earthquake make contact if it doesn`t have the user physically touch the opponents

[ember linden]

You start the earthquake directly under you

[polar canyon]

Do you think the crabs using crabhammer actually pull out a hammer

[mighty stump]

Earthquake does not make contact.

Stomping Tantrum does.

[ember linden]

Never mind I explained sum for no reason💀

[mighty stump]

Lmao

Now

What's a secondary effect of Earthquake 👁️

Fun trivia

[polar canyon]

Hits dig

[ember linden]

Hits dig for x2 damage

[exotic kindle]

any good special attack based mons for a sand team?

[mighty stump]

And then what

Yep

[mighty stump]

Glimmora.

[polar canyon]

Also glimmora has power herb meteor beam now

[exotic kindle]

i got a tyranitar and excadrill rn

[ember linden]

Guys I need to cook with focus sash flutter in Sand

[polar canyon]

Nihilego lite

[exotic kindle]

glimmora could probably work with a support set

and light screen with rock gem

or whatever the move is

[ember linden]

Not at all

[exotic kindle]

it could also be the rapid spin mon

[ember linden]

You talking singles?

[exotic kindle]

doubles/ singles i wanted to make a team that combines both

[polar canyon]

I like support sets that can still deal good damage when you need it to like bleakwind storm

[ember linden]

Quite frankly that is not possible

[polar canyon]

Oh you can't do that and make it good for either

[dapper crag]

That's a nice idea

[mighty stump]

You'll just end up half-assing both

[polar canyon]

It's really not

[exotic kindle]

well since the dlc is for doubles but some of the trainer battles are single i`m at a stand still

[ember linden]

Hazards suck in vgc unless it’s put up by ability/move

[dapper crag]

There is a serious overlap in strong Pokemons in Singles/Doubles

[ember linden]

Wdym by that

[mighty stump]

But how the team dynamic actually functions would be different.

[dapper crag]

So you not believing in that is one thing, but I know for a fact it's possible

[exotic kindle]

i was wanting to make a decent comp team for the dlc because most trainers use various strats

[mighty stump]

and just because it's possible doesn't mean it should be done.

[exotic kindle]

sand based

[ember linden]

Right, 100% Jay

[dapper crag]

Chien-Pao / Dragonite uses the same movesets from the start

[polar canyon]

Good luck with that if you're gonna be insistent

[mighty stump]

Dragonite prefers Multiscale setup in Singles.

you also get to run EQ

you run E-Speed

and you run DDance

With Lum

[polar canyon]

I'm not gonna bother trying to convince anyone

[mighty stump]

Its an entirely different set to banded

[dapper crag]

You can run Choice Band Dnite for BSS

[polar canyon]

They'll realize the teams are gonna be mid when the teams are mid

[ember linden]

I should probably give up tbh

[dapper crag]

It's not an uncommon set by any means

[mighty stump]

you "can" but it isn;t as good

[dapper crag]

Depends if you're using as lead vs tempo killer

[mighty stump]

Which is where you end up half-heartedly commiting

Plus your EV considerations are then different.

[polar canyon]

One half to each format lol

[exotic kindle]

the movesets could also mix each

[ember linden]

When you could just use the full potential of one format🤦‍♂️

[dapper crag]

I truly believe you can make a good BSS roster that could carry on being usable to greatpotential in Doubles

[mighty stump]

Do we want useable or do you want good.

[ember linden]

No

[mighty stump]

Just make two teams

[polar canyon]

Mixing the sets would pretty clearly mean you're not making it the best possible for either of them

[mighty stump]

Id rather do two formats well than both half-assed

[dapper crag]

Flutter Mane Chi-Yu Dragonite Chien-Pao Goldengo Ogerpon is a solid lineup for both formts

[exotic kindle]

oh

[mighty stump]

But again, your movest and EV considerations are different

Even your teras can be different

[dapper crag]

I'm answering what they said, not talking about doing a team for one specific format

[polar canyon]

You can use the same pokemon species for both teams if you want, doesn't seem to far fetched, but please just catch 2 of each and make them built for each format

[ember linden]

Making a team good for doubles and singles is like having 2 weathers on one team in vgc

[dapper crag]

not really

[dull ibex]

No you shouldn't use one team for both end of story imo

[mighty stump]

Your stance is that you can make a useable team for both formats and do it well.

No?

[dapper crag]

If you work with the overlaps ofc

[exotic kindle]

ok so then i`ll try and make it more doubles based

[mighty stump]

Okay, and i'm saying the overlap only begins and ends with the pokemon choices

[dull ibex]

Please make two teams

[mighty stump]

The sets/EVs/Teras can be different/far different

[dapper crag]

It wouldn't be optimized for one format, you'd be trying to have as much overlaps for both formats since that is your building restriction

[exotic kindle]

two teams with similar pokemon but different sets?

[mighty stump]

But why would you follow a building restriction

[dapper crag]

Because someone asked for it

[dull ibex]

Sure

[polar canyon]

You're straight up the one saying it now, it won't be optimized for either

[dull ibex]

Two of each could work in theory

[exotic kindle]

oo

[mighty stump]

But just because someone asked for it doesn't mean a better alternative doesn't exist

Like why settle

[dapper crag]

It would be optimized to play in both formats from the same lineup, that's the building restriction ofc

[mighty stump]

Like why

[polar canyon]

You can't optimize for both

[dapper crag]

Because I can and I like gimmicks, sorry to enjoy this

[ember linden]

Oh boy

[dull ibex]

Also I don't care what they asked for trying to building one team for each is bad advice (no offense you are probably new)

[ember linden]

You sure are good at those

[dull ibex]

It's a dumb gimmicj

[polar canyon]

Well if you're doing it for fun do whatever you want, just don't expect it to get you too many wins

[exotic kindle]

i have two sets for excadrill and ttar now , assault vest good for ttar in singles and doubles?

[dapper crag]

Yeah that's what I got told with my Brute Bonnet team, ended up doing really good

[ember linden]

I’d say so

[dapper crag]

Even saw some usage in online tournaments xD

[polar canyon]

Define really good

[dull ibex]

Oh blitz didn't I help you yesterday?

Good to see ya back!

[ember linden]

Usage and success are different things

[exotic kindle]

yea i`m still trying to make the sandy bois

[dull ibex]

You switched to doubles?

[dapper crag]

Being able to win consistently in 1500-1600 mmr on ladder and finishing top 1000 on cart

[dull ibex]

I can help you alot more if so

[ember linden]

I’m sorry but Cart rank is easy

[exotic kindle]

i was gonna try doing a mix of em because the dlc is primarily doubles

but then there are single battles too

[dapper crag]

Everything is easy for you Vikxk

[polar canyon]

With a team made for both doubles and singles?

[dull ibex]

Yeah you really want different teams

[dapper crag]

You're going to win next Worlds

[ember linden]

The 2 digit are really good to be in but 1k, 3 digits are a walk

[dapper crag]

no lol, this is the building restriction someone else came with

[ember linden]

Top 1K cart isn’t insane or anything

[exotic kindle]

like how rock slide is mainly doubles for ttar but its also decent in singles?

[dull ibex]

Jay maybe stop giving crap gimmick advice to new players and arguing with people rightfully calling you out

[ember linden]

Everything is not easy to me Jay

[dapper crag]

It is for many of us, sorry to not be elite player like you lol

[mighty stump]

Right

How about

This all gets cut here

[dull ibex]

I imagine you want stone edge or something on ttar for singles

[mighty stump]

Because it's getting out of hand

[ember linden]

It isn’t a good point to say 1k cart, if you’re top 1k on cart good shit

[exotic kindle]

doubles it is for it then

[ember linden]

But anyway, like actually

[dapper crag]

Ok elite player, fun opinion

[polar canyon]

Special weather ball ttar

[ember linden]

Tech

[dull ibex]

Could you put your team into showdown then on a paste please? I'll be able to change what I would then the others can fix mistakes from there if that is okay with you

[dapper crag]

For me finishing top 1k on cart when I got limited time to play is really good, you won't change that nor take it away from me

[ember linden]

Mb Tofu I didn’t see the message till I sent this

I’m done talking about it Jay, Tofu is right

[exotic kindle]

my sand team was originally singles but heres the old one

[polar canyon]

Do a paste please

[ember linden]

Send the paste😭

[exotic kindle]

shit i did

[polar canyon]

Like pokepaste

[ember linden]

Goober

[exotic kindle]

it got deleted

[polar canyon]

Not copy paste

[mighty stump]

https://pokepast.es/ Copy it into here

Then click Submit

You'll get a URL to then send

[exotic kindle]

https://pokepast.es/4c68ceb6e9e8310b

[ember linden]

There ya go

[exotic kindle]

theres my old sand team

[dapper crag]

@ember linden for real, what's your current mmr on showdown in Reg E ?

[polar canyon]

I guess calling it paste can be confusing

[mighty stump]

How about

We don't continue

[exotic kindle]

yea i had to look for the pokepaste thing

[dull ibex]

monosand is not the greatest imo

[exotic kindle]

not great but i was wanting to try it out

it can work if i keep my weather up

[polar canyon]

is this how you make big text

[dull ibex]

no thats not what I mean

[polar canyon]

Nice

[ember linden]

is this how you make big text

Big Text

[dapper crag]

mmmky

[mighty stump]

Could you not spam that while Red is trying to help someone.

[dull ibex]

if you want to play a sand team I strongly you use 2 sand mon for a core then fill it out with other meta mons and support

[mighty stump]

Because

It's an actually productive conversation.

[craggy swan]

rillaboom or inceroar

[exotic kindle]

ttar and excadrill should be a good core

[mighty stump]

Depends on what you need.

[dull ibex]

I can build this for you as is but if it doesnt work I reccommend trying what I suggested 🙂

[dull ibex]

yeah you would take excatar and build around it

[ember linden]

I think Sand might be above Snow rn, excadrill checks a9

[dull ibex]

all abusers is bad imo

[exotic kindle]

i got both ttar and excadrill up rn

[craggy swan]

I was thinking of using hydrapple for dragon cheer on archaladon

[mighty stump]

Incineroar has access to Intimidate, while Rillaboom would provide Terrain Change + Healing and heavier offensive pressure due to boosted Wood Hammer. The Grass-typing is also naturally favourable into Amoonguss

[dull ibex]

let me build you a team and ill shoot over the idea

[exotic kindle]

alr

[polar canyon]

I kinda wanna make sun with walking wake now

Do I do torkoal or torn?

[ember linden]

Water Dragon is so fucking good

[mighty stump]

If you were to make use of Dragon Cheer you'd preferrably want something faster than the thing you're boosting.

[polar canyon]

Exactly

[mighty stump]

Dragon Cheer is also distributed beyond just Hydrapple

[ember linden]

I’d go whim

[polar canyon]

Hydrapple just has a special gimmick with it

[next stump]

[polar canyon]

Forgot about that guy lol

[ember linden]

Whim gets prankster sunny day, faster than torn, tailwind as well

[craggy swan]

I mean in your opinion do I use rillaboom or incearoar

[ember linden]

W

[polar canyon]

Shiny metagross the teary-eyed goes crazy

[next stump]

I love the new lock-on feature to see marked pokemon

[mighty stump]

Incineroar because at least it avoids the Grass overlap.

[next stump]

such a nice QOL change

[polar canyon]

Does bleakwind get lower accuracy in sun like hurricane?

[mighty stump]

Excuse me what

[craggy swan]

wait what

[next stump]

if you pay 200BP on the school computer

[ember linden]

That exists 😂

[dapper crag]

no

[mighty stump]

That's what that does?

[next stump]

you can see if a pokemon is marked when you lock onto them and zoom in

yes

[exotic kindle]

it is an upgrade through the photograhy club

[polar canyon]

Damn I thought it was all bad filters

[fallen rivet]

Dang your shiny has depression

[mighty stump]

The more you know. Ididn't know that was what the upgrade did.

[craggy swan]

also who else has seen the team star crew?

[mighty stump]

Me

[dull ibex]

almost done 🙂

[mighty stump]

They got normified

[craggy swan]

Yeah

[exotic kindle]

yea if you lock on a wild mon you can see if it has marks or things it has it as long as it is one you have already caught

[polar canyon]

Natures?

[exotic kindle]

it does not show their natures by locking onto them

[polar canyon]

I need to see what it's actually like

[mighty stump]

I'm heading to bed. If anymore arguments happen just argue without insulting anyone.

[exotic kindle]

only gender, any marks or badges, if its teeny or jumbo etc

thats what the lock on upgrade shows

[polar canyon]

Jumbo and tiny is pretty nice

I like funny sizes

[dull ibex]

back to helper mode

[polar canyon]

I like my miniature torkoal

[exotic kindle]

that would be weird if the sized effected the stats

[dull ibex]

https://pokepast.es/952ef7b8310c2b92 don't just build this in game of course but here is a foundation we can build optimization off of

[exotic kindle]

oooh

[polar canyon]

Can you do joke suggestions if you do /j

[dull ibex]

https://pokepast.es/a8cdf497d89e74b1 lando was missing 4 evs

try this out in showdown for a bit

[exotic kindle]

for doubles only or primarily the singles?

[dawn crown]

what items are viable on incin

[dull ibex]

this is for doubles only

[exotic kindle]

alr

[dull ibex]

goggles, sitrus, av.

pinch berry

probably covert cloak

[dawn crown]

ok

[dawn crown]

also which move is more viable on it knock off protect or flare blitz

[dapper crag]

finally done the team which would work in singles doubles ha ha

it's not too too bad

[exotic kindle]

i`m curious about that

[dapper crag]

going to send it to you in DM to not heat up all the elite players in here

[exotic kindle]

alr lmao

[exotic kindle]

i`m not even an elite player lol

[dapper crag]

so aren't they but they like giving out strong opinions as if they were lol

[exotic kindle]

yea like i was running a doubles set in singles

[dapper crag]

the orange names are really good, no question

[exotic kindle]

dragon tail on ttar with stealth rocks up

[exotic kindle]

that shit was so dumb

[faint nest]

Why did the OU council? Thought letting terapgos be in OU

Was a good idea

[exotic kindle]

turns out

[exotic kindle]

that set you made was really good

[dull ibex]

Because they're expirenced enough to know if it should

[dull ibex]

🫡

[exotic kindle]

thunderbolt hard countered tera flying zacian

unless i got outsped

then flutter mane died

[raw thistle]

Succeeded the 1v6

Led with it didnt switch out didnt get phazed

Essentially 1v6

[frozen silo]

hello

im going into a singles tournament tomorrow

what do you guys think abt this team?

[next stump]

Please send the pokepaste link and not the wall of text

[frozen silo]

my b

[next stump]

you're good, just easier to read there

[frozen silo]

https://pokepast.es/43a4befb441b9197

[frozen silo]

.

[silk lily]

Any new teams with metagross

[karmic temple]

Not sure if your tournament allows multiple pokemon to have the same item but you got a lot of booster energy’s

[frozen silo]

is that bad?

[karmic temple]

Probably won’t have any teams until after reg f officially starts since people are just playing around in casuals/ps

[karmic temple]

I mean, typically most tournaments have an item clause where you can only use one of the same item and no duplicates. So if your tournament allows it, that’s fine otherwise you’d need to change them

[eternal kiln]

Sceptile

trust

[frozen silo]

okay and other than that?

i´ve been having trouble dealing with kingambit

sucker punch

[dapper crag]

@exotic kindle DM sent

[dapper crag]

Chien-Pao deals really well with Kingambit

[exotic kindle]

Looks nice

I had an idea which I'm really stuck on the sand team idea

How would i make one that's good for singles and doubles ?

[vague whale]

https://pokepast.es/03cf1c47b5a4ccd8

[fallen rivet]

Any cool amogus sets I should try or just do the standard pollen puff/spore/protect/rage powder

[vague whale]

Here's a team I have a theory working with I'd love to bring back the whimsicott terrakion duo for doubles fun

Can anyone give some advice on how to best utilize whimsicott terrakion?

[fallen rivet]

If you’re running choice band you probably don’t want protect on it

Also you have two assault vests, I don’t think you meant to put one on incineroar

[vague whale]

You're correct I did mess that up lol

[keen karma]

Does upper hand bypass protect?

[fallen rivet]

Idk

I want to say it doesn’t

But idk

[vague whale]

https://pokepast.es/dac0aed054b1af6f

I mean protect is a priority move

I could run rocky helmet on pelliper then change cresselia to spd evs 🤔

[dapper crag]

no, protect is 4th bracket and upper hands is 3rd bracket

[nocturne holly]

W SHINY

shiny metagross is actually one of the greatest things ever

[smoky hawk]

I can't wait to shiny hunt mine. Is it hard to do?

[nocturne holly]

Nah use a psychic sandwich and go ham

the lighting is weird tho
Some look shiny but aren’t

look at the spikes

I got two shinies in one sandwich

[smoky hawk]

Gotcha. And it's not ham. It's onion

[nocturne holly]

real

[smoky hawk]

I'll have to start team prepping sooner or later because I'm going to Portland next month

[keen karma]

i killed my metang then found a shiny beldum took me 2 sandwiches to get one

the kill was a crit

[nocturne holly]

lol

shiny litten is my next hunt

[keen karma]

have fun

fuck littens

i did it in swsh and sv

[nocturne holly]

Fr

[keen karma]

never again

oh god

[mighty stump]

Whoever is casting is doing a terrible job

[keen karma]

what tourney

[mighty stump]

San Antonio

[nocturne holly]

I’m gonna hunt it
Breeding is no fun

[keen karma]

Do an outbreak

[nocturne holly]

What? For kitten?

[keen karma]

yes

[nocturne holly]

dude autocorrect keeps fucking correcting litten to kitten

[nocturne holly]

how do I get the outbreak

dayskip?

[keen karma]

fire sandwich advance time 1 day

while in game and check map

[dapper crag]

Who's watching the San Antonio stream !

[nocturne holly]

can’t I get the outbreak then fire sandwich

and then do you just auto battle to get new encounters

[keen karma]

im not rn

[dapper crag]

you farm/fish the outbreak then you save and pop the sandwich

[nocturne holly]

oh yeah

Dude I hinted eevee using that and then I never did it again lol

[dapper crag]

pop the sandwitch before saving to be even more optimal

[nocturne holly]

60+ litten kills increases shiny odds right

[keen karma]

yep

save then pop sandwich

[dapper crag]

yeah, you do that for 30 mnutes

if no shiny, reset game

[keen karma]

also watch out for the messages in the top right

[nocturne holly]

what if the outbreak like goes away

[dapper crag]

you saved

[nocturne holly]

shouldnt save then sandwich

[dapper crag]

outbreak won't go away if you're not farming it, pop the sandwich near outbreak location, save the game and go ham

[nocturne holly]

If the day advances I don’t think resetting save keeps the outbreak

[dapper crag]

yes it does

[nocturne holly]

oh well gotta do it soon then

[dapper crag]

if you're offline no risks

worse case scenario, you just farm a new outbreak, but I've not been in a scenario where I lost an outbreak due to resetting a save if unlucky after half an hour of farming for the shiny

[fluid wind]

https://pokepast.es/76b39381b38e2d24 this team have been good so far and i have went postive with this team

[kindred cypress]

Aight bois lay it on me

How busted is terapagos gonna be?

[keen karma]

no idea

[dapper crag]

We can't play it in Reg F showdown rn

[smoky hawk]

They are fairly new at it

[dapper crag]

so if it's a restricted, not too too sure it's going to be good into all other options, maybe it having the tera gimmick form makes it unbearable but I doubt it's going to be good since it would force you to use Tera and thus make it predictible to even compete to a restricted level

[smoky hawk]

Ooh reg F is up on showdown

[dapper crag]

oh ya, it's wild. been having fun with a team I put together in 5 minutes, crossing fingers job doesn't call me

[fallen rivet]

Raging bolt is very cool

[dapper crag]

broke 1300 mmr, it's really fun to see new experimentations

[dapper crag]

it's quite strong, not too sure if AV or Energy Booster is better, looks good on both sets

the new priority move it gets is really good at pinning board

torn-shifu is still really popular and it does so well into this duo, mostly a free win if you don't fuck up your own positioning

[fallen rivet]

I’ve ran leftovers and calm mind to good effect

[wise tinsel]

If the day advances go to the switch clock and push the day back down

[scarlet grail]

Would anyone be willing to look at a team I made to battle friends and see if there’s any tips on some variations or other Pokémon I can swap in/out? I hope it’s alright that I ask this!

[dapper crag]

yeah sure bring it in my DMs or drop it here

[scarlet grail]

Sounds good!! Thanks a bunch!! I’ll get that to you in a sec

[gentle crag]

royaltymilky has given 1 Gen Rep to jaylsp

[dull ibex]

you should drop it here but I can also probably help

[scarlet grail]

✨

[mossy nebula]

Anyone come up with a good Hydrapple build yet ?

[scarlet grail]

?

[fallen rivet]

I think he meant to reply to someone else

[leaden citrus]

is it possible to give smeargle the protect thing from the paradox entei?

[nocturne holly]

Sorry wrong message lmao

[dapper crag]

it should

[nocturne holly]

I don’t think the outbreaks will go back tho
I think I’ve tried it before and it doesn’t work

[wise tinsel]

Your game needs to be off when you do it, I do it a lot

[dapper crag]

We can import the Regis from Home wtf

I thought they wouldn't be allowed

At least what I got told by someone on showdown, let me test

[tired sage]

yeah the regi trio is transferrable..

[fallen rivet]

So is gigas

[chrome knot]

won my pc today

[dapper crag]

yeah just got my family in my roster rn lol

I thought they'd be left behind for some reasons

[tired sage]

[fallen rivet]

The og trio need buffs imo

Give them abilities similar to eleki and drago

[tired sage]

tbf drago and eleki did get a nerf

nvm only eleki got a nerf...
1.5 -> 1.3

[next stump]

congrats 🙂

[dapper crag]

if they do this, they'd be doing a whole lot of buffs to older Pokemon for consistency, which would be nice

[next stump]

+30

[chrome knot]

thanks!!

[gentle crag]

setsumizi has given 1 Gen Rep to mlbd

[fallen rivet]

Hard agree

[nocturne holly]

https://pokepast.es/64b58d6d9aad7b7d thoughts? What would work as the last slot?

Iron head is supposed to be ice punch on metagross

[fallen rivet]

As an ultra ball ranked player with no credibility, maybe raging bolt? Idk

[dapper crag]

You've got lots of Ground coverage

Do you need all 3 moves ?

[wise tinsel]

What are some common Iron Crown spreads atm?

[next stump]

i haven’t looked into any of the 4 paradox legendaries until they’re confirmed legal

[tired sage]

totally not bias but whimsy

[keen karma]

the thing is it would be weird for them to be legal

[dapper crag]

thought they were since Reg F assume they are lol on showdown this being said

[next stump]

is that sentence english hahaha

Reg F on showdown is their educated guess on what the format will be

[keen karma]

showdown isnt official ladder

[next stump]

the ban list comes on Christmas

[keen karma]

i imagine they ban walking wake

and leaves

actually

[next stump]

I hope they do, it’s very weird to have what is essentially a mythical distribution legal in the game

[keen karma]

it could be like a urshifu situation

[next stump]

or they need to rerelease it

[keen karma]

but those arent even limitted time

one thing they could do is just make them raid exclusive mons

like release them permanently into raids

[fallen rivet]

all six of them

[keen karma]

they dont all have to be released into raida

[smoky hawk]

Is dragon cheer going to be useful?

[keen karma]

well kind a actually

[keen karma]

maybe

[nocturne holly]

Thoughts?

[tired sage]

im still trying to figure out what it does

it increases crit chance but that second part is what gets me... (in the move description...)
like does it increase crit chance mroe for dragons?

[dapper crag]

nah Helping Hand is more consistent

[smoky hawk]

I believe it raises the partner's crit rate 1 stage or 2 stages if dragon type

[dapper crag]

I've not seen a single dragon cheer on ladder so fa

I'm at 43 games played so far

[fallen rivet]

I tried it

[tired sage]

ah ok...
i reckon it'll have its niches but HH would prop be better...

[fallen rivet]

It did not work great

[smoky hawk]

Probably won't see much of it

[keen karma]

its probably a hard move to use tbh

[dapper crag]

Helping Hand just ends up being the same result with priority and not depending on you staying in and being slower than the partner using it

[dapper crag]

it sucks

[keen karma]

imma run a exegutor

[dapper crag]

dragon cheer limits who you can run since it's on a pretty low distribution, you gotta target a dragon partner with +1 crit stage item to consistently get crits out (or high crit ratio move I guess)

All these factors combined when you just slap Helping Hand on Incineroar or whatever Mon gets it makes Dragon Cheer, imo, really inconsistent and gimmicky for no good benefits

[smoky hawk]

I agree HH is better

[dapper crag]

or any hard setup move like Nasty Plot/Swords Dance

So much better setup moves vs Dragon Cheer, it's like a fun move that you can make a gimmick around, maybe it functions on a niche team but boy do I don't see it and I like gimmicks

[nocturne holly]

anyone wanna do some bbqs? need two more

[fallen rivet]

Oof I would but I’m out atm

[dapper crag]

what is this

[keen karma]

blueberry quests

[dapper crag]

ok ok

[dull ibex]

@molten oasis I had an aggressive balance idea

of shifu incin rilla clef ghold and gambit

two set up and two fake out

two forms of damage midigation

[molten oasis]

Nice

That sounds fun

[tired sage]

clefable?

[next stump]

clefairy

[dull ibex]

the eviolite one

[tired sage]

i know but...
clefable works too
brisbane top 5 had tera water clefable xD

not sure if it was an error but yk...

[dull ibex]

no it doesnt

not for bulky redirection

[lofty tartan]

People run Clefairy over Clefable for Friend Guard and bulky redirection. Clefable lacks the former part of this

[tired sage]

ah for bulky redirection yeah it wouldnt work xD

[wise tinsel]

Been trying Politoad and Archludadon and I'm genuinely impressed w/ Archludadon's performance, very good Pokemon

[lofty tartan]

It's sorta bulky but like... No Friend Guard is a big deal

[tired sage]

budget cress with follow me was what that brisbane one was running

[dull ibex]

https://pokepast.es/3ffdb975997ddbd7

here is the prototype

[wispy spade]

What is the pink tornadus called?

[tired sage]

enamorus i think...?

[wispy spade]

Thank you

[fallen rivet]

Archaludon seems good but idk how to use it

[lofty tartan]

Rain seems fine

[fallen rivet]

Oh I meant for like moves and spread

[wispy spade]

Enough bulk to survive close combat watershifu

[next stump]

flash cannon, electric charge up move if you have rain or power herb, draco meteor

[fallen rivet]

What item

[lofty tartan]

I mean the meta is new and people too often get stuck into the concept of "this is the set that has to be run and there's nothing else"

So I imagine you could probably try things, too

[fallen rivet]

Good point

[next stump]

i’ve seen AV

[fallen rivet]

Ooh what about all that plus body press stamina

[next stump]

I think you could also consider a damage boosting item or power herb

[fallen rivet]

Tera fairy?

[wispy spade]

Or grass

Spore from the sketch pokemon may be a threat now

[tired sage]

not if you can outspeed and KO it first

[wispy spade]

I am so bad at remembering names

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 235: Smeargle

Type

Normal

Abilities

Own Tempo, Technician, Moody (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

55/20/35/20/45/75

Total

250

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[lofty tartan]

Yeah Smeargle really really struggles into Urshifu

[tired sage]

only 75 speed....

[fallen rivet]

Is chien pao an ok check for smeargle

[keen karma]

what are some mons that need tw

[lofty tartan]

A lot of people are building Archaludon into Rain teams, which run Urshifu pretty commonly.

[keen karma]

im trying to make a suicune team

[molten oasis]

Who’s cooking with smeargle and why

[keen karma]

its gonna be pretty niche

[wispy spade]

Suicune is cute

[molten oasis]

Wow it’s almost like I said this lmao

[keen karma]

niche doesnt mean bad

[tired sage]

heyo drago...
we were just talking about how smeargle shouldn't much of a problem

[molten oasis]

I do not think smeargle is good man

I think fast spore is decent

[keen karma]

ykw man im making a smeargle team

[molten oasis]

That’s it

[tired sage]

fast spore could be a problem but other then that it doesnt have much going for it...

[fallen rivet]

Ok time to commit archaludon

[lofty tartan]

It's really tough for Smeargle to find footing when it struggles into one of the most common threats around. Losing Dark Void mattered.

[wispy spade]

Does smeargle have the fastest guaranteed sleep in the game?

[molten oasis]

Absolutely

And moody got nerfed that also hurt it

[lofty tartan]

100%

[fallen rivet]

Does it matter which rain setter I use or is the meta too fresh

[molten oasis]

No

[tired sage]

nah. toedscruel can be if you have neutralizing gas xD

[molten oasis]

Right now experimenting with multiple options is good

[tired sage]

back to trying to cook a latias team...

[molten oasis]

Do Latias and latios run the soul dew or whatever?

[wispy spade]

That sounds like too much work... 2 pokemon to get a spore off

[nocturne holly]

https://pokepast.es/64b58d6d9aad7b7d thoughts? What would work as the last slot?

[molten oasis]

You need speed control

[tired sage]

nope. soul dew is banned cause it was too op xD
boosts the duo's dragon and psy type attacks by 1.2..
idk it used to be more stupid i think...

[keen karma]

shed tail smeargle

if only smeargle got prankster 😭

[molten oasis]

It’s just banned in vgc? Huh

[molten oasis]

Please never cook again

Smeargle would be so broken with prankster

[tired sage]

oh yeah...
i forgot that until gen 7 it boosted the SpA and SpD of the eon duo

[lofty tartan]

In Gen 9 I don't even see that Latias gets Soul Dew

[keen karma]

if only smeargle had a move to sketch abilities...

[wispy spade]

Sylveon?

[lofty tartan]

Looks like rather than ban it they removed it entirely

[molten oasis]

[tired sage]

the eon duo. latias and latios

[wispy spade]

I've never heard that name

[tired sage]

huh...?
its a held item thats in s/v...

[molten oasis]

Yep

[lofty tartan]

So to clarify, Soul Dew isn't banned because it's not in

👀

[molten oasis]

Soul dew is in s/v

[tired sage]

its in s/v but its never bee usable for some reason...

[lofty tartan]

Is it just in game but not on their move lists?

OH you mean Soul Dew is in Metronome lol

[tired sage]

i understand gen 6 and before cause boosts to SpA and SpD

[lofty tartan]

I mean that Soul Dew isn't on Latias' learn list

[tired sage]

huh?

[molten oasis]

It’s an item

[lofty tartan]

I was talking to Drago

[tired sage]

its a held item

[dapper crag]

Item: Soul Dew

If held by a Latias/Latios, its Dragon- and Psychic-type moves have 1.2x power.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

Item: Soul Dew

If held by a Latias/Latios, its Dragon- and Psychic-type moves have 1.2x power.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[lofty tartan]

Yeah I already looked it up guys lol

[molten oasis]

Ig you’d just use LORB now

[lofty tartan]

Google

[wispy spade]

But i didn't know

[tired sage]

i was thinking tera fairy , fairy feather...
but idk if i should run alluring voice or tera blast...

[wispy spade]

That thing is many years before my time

[molten oasis]

Alluring voice

It’s better

You don’t run Tera blast unless you don’t have that coversge on your Mon

[tired sage]

ah ok

[lofty tartan]

Also I don't see any clause about it being banned in VGC for Gen 9 yet, but Latias/Latios aren't listed in Reg F either.

[molten oasis]

We’re not sure what vgc is gonna look like yet

[tired sage]

santa is gonna bring us the ban list on christmas

[molten oasis]

Yep

[fallen rivet]

https://pokepast.es/ecf23b68a4d8e121

Ok very early prototype. I’m not confident in some of these picks and spreads and torn as a rain setter

[molten oasis]

I’m not cooking with paradox yet

[tired sage]

but yeah...
im prop gonna make a latias team just in case...

[lofty tartan]

Soul Dew was definitely nerfed though

It used to increase Special Attack and Special Defense by 50% but now boosts Dragon and Psychic moves by 1.2x

[molten oasis]

Hydrapple Incin Primarina Farigiraf is what im cooking with

[tired sage]

this is what im cooking...
https://pokepast.es/1cb40c008e81313a

i just need a final member...

[molten oasis]

Ah yes a fellow Hydrapple user

[tired sage]

also dont mind the eject pac incin
that was a mistake

[tired sage]

hydrapple looks pretty interesting...
and its slow so it can work in TR

[molten oasis]

https://pokepast.es/01b73670546ebd27

I think Hydrapple will be pretty good

[scarlet grail]

@dapper crag @dull ibex https://pokepast.es/f9d253f8cf2e4205 Sorry for the wait!! Was doing some ogre ousting. If either of you could take a look and give some tips or potential additions to the team, that'd be great!!

I don't mind making more mons I can just slot in and out, because I'm really only battling one person and that's my partner. Honestly any fun ideas would be super appreciated ✨ If anyone else seeing this wants to weigh in as well, please feel free to go ahead!

[dull ibex]

oh this is for friendlies?

[molten oasis]

Wtf did I just click

[dull ibex]

you called me on accident

[molten oasis]

Oh lol

[dull ibex]

if that is for friendly battles that should work

[tired sage]

should we bring back goggles incin for that parting shot...?

[scarlet grail]

[dull ibex]

im more into meta teams which arent necessary for friendlies so ill let jaysp help you 🫡

[scarlet grail]

Yeah!! I just uh. Am very heavily physically defensive & specially offensive, so I wanna branch out a bit

Sounds good!!

I know I did enjoy Archaludon and Hydrapple together with the build I came up with, but I'm not all that experienced

[next stump]

goggles incin will be very good

[fallen rivet]

Wait do we like pelliper or politioed more?

Or does it not matter?

[tired sage]

but it’s also the question of…
do we want to build incin in a way where it can tank or in a way where it won’t be redirected…
goggles incin was everywhere in swsh from what i remember

[next stump]

I think pelipper is better

[nocturne holly]

yea ik
but what?

[fallen rivet]

Oh thank goodness because I hate politoed as a pokemon for some reason 💀

[keen karma]

i wanna use suicune

but idk what works with it

[molten oasis]

Fari doesn’t sound bad here

[keen karma]

its looking like it will just be on teams kinda like reg e standard

[keen karma]

where

[nocturne holly]

for tr?

[molten oasis]

Mhmm

[molten oasis]

Sour team

[nocturne holly]

https://pokepast.es/64b58d6d9aad7b7d

[dapper crag]

bulky fake-out immune tailwind with good utility

Scald Tailwind Snarl Protect is a good starting point

[keen karma]

i know the set but i dont know what to use it with

[dapper crag]

Put it on balance

Rillaboom/Incin/Suicune/Raging Bolt/Flutter Mane/Kingambit

Great team with a lot of playability into the chaotic early metagame that assumed Reg F showdown is

You could even go for Ogerpon or Amoonguss over Rillaboom if you wanted depending on what you truly feel comfortable with (slowing down pace of the game, setting up or more offense)

[nocturne holly]

thoughts on the last slot??

[dapper crag]

Flutter Mane Icy Wind ?

You don't have much speed control or I'm missing something

[nocturne holly]

yea i need speed control

so the options are fari and flutter

[molten oasis]

I like Fari here since your team is kinda slow

[tired sage]

you should run bruxish. water type fari but more fragile...
/j dont...

[fallen rivet]

Lul

[tired sage]

i mean...
in theory it would work but its too fragile so it wont work xD

[fallen rivet]

It’s also ugly as sin

[dapper crag]

Flutter is never a bad choice

[keen karma]

https://pokepast.es/d3f626c5a7f9c236 here is what i have in mind

[nocturne holly]

tbh yeah and i have a fast mode with scarfshifu

I have a lot of type overlap however
Rilla and hydrapple
Fari and metagross

[next stump]

also with that team + farigarif you need a way to sweep under TR

[nocturne holly]

Hydrapple?

[next stump]

that’s why the original version has Heatran and Dragonite

idk hydrapple calcs enough to know if it’s getting OHKOs

[tired sage]

fickle beam is...
something...

[nocturne holly]

what could I add to sweep under tr more effectively

[next stump]

replace hydrapple with something like Heatran, Archaludon, Raging Bolt, idk

but maybe hydrapple isn’t shit

[rancid delta]

Can anyone help me form a doubles team? Or throw me some ideas I have no idea what I should aim for / use (absolute noob to competitive doubles)

Trying to make a team around terapagos, right now I’ve only got

Tera, whimsicott, and grim as an idea. Tera being a dps, whimsicott as a tailwind + helping hand setter and fairy STAB for Tera, grinsnarl for screens

Can’t think of who to use as a back up physical sweeper, and in general I don’t know what else I would need (like a wall Pokémon? Or A Pokémon to break walls?)

[next stump]

Terapagos will likely be banned

[rancid delta]

Hell

[lofty tartan]

^

[next stump]

if you’re playing BGC

VGC*

[rancid delta]

Just terapagos?

Is anyone else going to be banned?

[next stump]

and other box legendaries, called restricteds

maybe the new paradox legends too

[rancid delta]

Ah got it. I forgot that is a thing

Raging bolt seems quite busted so hopefully xd

But thank you for telling me haha

[next stump]

no worries hahaha, we get the official ban list on christmas

[rancid delta]

Shadow Calyrex counts as a box legendary right?

And alr cool

[next stump]

yes caly will 100% be banned

[rancid delta]

Alr cool. I read before that thing was an absolute demon in doubles

Unless you sucker punch it

[next stump]

it was very very good, it won worlds as well

with tera I imagine it’ll get even stronger

[rancid delta]

Holy crap, too bad he is banned from doubles haha. But makes sense

Everyone would probably just use him

[molten oasis]

Hydrapple gets ohkos with fickle beam occasionally

[tired sage]

but its not consistent is it...

[molten oasis]

But I don’t think it’s hitting hard enough overall to be an amazing tr setter

[molten oasis]

Fickle beam still does good damage

[rancid delta]

Who are some Pokémon with AOE moves? All I can think of is dazzling gleamers like flutter maine

[molten oasis]

I still think Hydrapple is pretty consistent. I’m not praying for a fickle beam boost when I’m playing with it

[tired sage]

i mean base 80 is def not something to laugh at..

[molten oasis]

Hydrapple plays well with incin cuz

Pivots

You pretty much try to get fickle beam dsmage off unless you have something se

Or you need to recover some hp

[next stump]

Heatran Heat Wave, Rock Slide from Landorus and others, Bleakwind Storm from Tornadus, Sandsear Storm from Lando, Heat Wave from Chi-Yu, Expanding Force

[dapper crag]

I've not seen much Hydrapple on ladder so far

Doesn't give much results from my experience

[keen karma]

Have you tried alcremie + fari or no

[next stump]

no I have not, I haven’t played Reg F

[rancid delta]

Thank you, ooo expanding force is back?? Nice I thought that was a sword shield thing only

[gentle crag]

apochrya has given 1 Gen Rep to mlbd

[rancid delta]

And chiyu won’t be banned?

Oh that’s right it’s not a box

[tired sage]

the restricted legends list is...
interesting...
it doesnt really follow any specific list/order

[dapper crag]

it bans all cover Mons basically

[nocturne holly]

Would archaludon be ok with metagross?

[tired sage]

plus a few others but yeah…
it is generally box arts

[next stump]

mmmm maybe not actually

[nocturne holly]

I think metagross is gonna have to be swapped sooner or later

[lofty tartan]

Dude Reg F Showdown ladder has been live for 19 hours

[dapper crag]

the mythicals you might be referring

[dapper crag]

ya and I've played 60 games of it

[next stump]

I think Metagross is nice for TR sweeps with Farig because of immunity to intimidate but idk

[dapper crag]

doesn't change me sharing my experience

[next stump]

I wonder if stomping + hyper voice KOs incin

[lofty tartan]

I mean saying it doesn't get results because you've played 60 games in a format that's been active for 19 hours is pretty presumptuous

60 games isn't a lot

[dapper crag]

Ofc

It's a whole lot given how new the format is

Saying anything this format is presomptuous given we don't have the banlist anyway

[lofty tartan]

What results is it gonna get on an unofficial ladder 19 hours in? Lol

[dapper crag]

But Hydralisk feels very underwhelming when compred to all other options

I've not seen it much and on teams it was showed it rarely made a great impact for me to write down I lost the game because of it.

[lofty tartan]

Listen man, I'm not here claiming it's good, I'm saying the claim itself that was made is nutty. Lmfao.

[dapper crag]

This is just my experience

[lofty tartan]

The term results itself often implies like tournament winning finishes or high placements

[tired sage]

no…?
caly isn’t a box yet it’s banned, while ogerpon is a cover and it’s legal

[dapper crag]

Not for me since I only compete on CTS ladder

Might do tournaments when I'm off this contract but I can only afford to be serious for showdown, on my day offs I can play some switch

[lofty tartan]

So you just take a really common term in competitive things in general and just like apply your own meaning to it for your own experiences and then you give advice based on your own interpretation of these phrases that people are using?

"This doesn't get results" kinda loses impact when you're not using the word like other people in conversation.

[dapper crag]

I don't really care about the impact, I'm just relating my experience so far

If you think it can work, I'm not stopping you to play nor to believe in it

[lofty tartan]

I'm not saying that, and already did say I'm not saying that. I just think that some of the things said here are a little nutty when passed off as definitive advice.

Like giving advice to people trying to compete when you only care about CTS, and don't care about actual real results in tournament finishes is a little whacky.

But hey 🤷

[dapper crag]

This is my opinion, not a definitive advice xD

[lofty tartan]

k

[summer shore]

Lets stop it here guys

[lofty tartan]

There wasn't any fighting or argument but totally norrmal conversation but sure lol

[summer shore]

Clearly one side isn't willing to grasp the barebones concepts of the other

So there's no point in going any further

[dapper crag]

Ya, just trying to contribute my two cents since I've been spamming reg F ladder and getting good results so far

Nothing is set in stone ofc, that goes without saying (to me this being said)

[tough idol]

I'm entering my 1st VGC Regional in January. I'll take any and all advice from in here. End of the day I need a team I'm comfortable with regardless of results.

You could give me the Top 3 OTS teams and I dont gel with them.

If I lose all my games, at least I've tried with what I know.

Sorry @summer shore I'd half typed before you responded and no other responses necessary 🙂

[keen karma]

https://pokepast.es/66f91e55bb9ac774 is this counted as balance?

[keen karma]

charlotte?

[tough idol]

Liverpool UK

[keen karma]

gl

[nocturne holly]

Archaludon should be fine with metagross right
Anyways ima add archaludon and fari and test
Thx Dillon

[gentle crag]

.begulajr. has given 1 Gen Rep to mlbd

[strange tendon]

Is there a place that I can get advice on team building? Is this the right channel? I’ve got some Pokémon I wanna use but I’m new to competitive so idk how to mesh a team around them

[keen karma]

for sure kills mine

[fallen rivet]

This is the place

[tough idol]

Doubles or Singles

[next stump]

I think so too

[keen karma]

its only gonna be like super spd heavy incins living that

[nocturne holly]

What?

[tough idol]

Anyone have thoughts on full support Incin?

Knock Off
Parting Shot
Fake Out
U-Turn

[keen karma]

like super bulky in special defense that are tanking that

[nocturne holly]

Oh I see

[fallen rivet]

Drop turn for something else imo

[next stump]

no need for U Turn and parting shot, replace U Turn with Flare Blitz

[strange tendon]

Right so for singles I wanna maybe use this, is it any good? I’ve looked at guides for doubles but I have no clue on singles:

Metagross
Flygon
Rotom Wash
Volcarona
Iron valiant
Weavile

I know it’s pretty spread type wise and has an answer to most type advantages but I don’t know if I have enough set up or support etc, guess that’s what I’m more confused about

[next stump]

U-Turn is really only used on AV incin teams

[summer shore]

Is this OU or BSS

[dapper crag]

ya it looks like so

[strange tendon]

I have no clue, I was just gonna try make the best possible team in game tbh

[tired sage]

funnnn best of luck!!

[summer shore]

Are you planning on playing the in game competitive mode

[strange tendon]

Yeah hopefully, if I get the grips of it

I just shiny hunt tbh so I wanna try get into it more

[summer shore]

Ok the team is a little bit weak for BSS standards

[strange tendon]

Ok, is that because of the synergy’s or the actual mons?

[summer shore]

The mons themselves primarily

[bold geode]

@summer shore

[summer shore]

I'm not a BSS player myself but let me go find some resources

[summer shore]

Monke

[bold geode]

Winton

[strange tendon]

If you could that would be amazing, thanks for the help it really means a lot

[gentle crag]

Ollie has given 1 Gen Rep to shi.ro.

[summer shore]

Let me move this

I'll send it to your dms

[nocturne holly]

WHY AM I HAVING SO MUCH TROUBLE MAKING A FUCKING SANDWOCH

WHAT THE FUUUCK

[hollow hatch]

Eh

[keen karma]

do you guys think suicune + latios could work

[keen karma]

dont put the bread on top

[nocturne holly]

I’m not

it’s the fucking pepper

[polar canyon]

Real

If a pokemon has exactly the same number in 2 stats what happens to protosynthesis

I didn't think I'd run into that but it's max max timid walking wake

[dapper crag]

It goes in the order they are coded in. Attack Defense Special Attack Special Defense Speed upon a tie occurring

[polar canyon]

Nice

[tough idol]

Run your EVs in Showdown first

[polar canyon]

It's in showdown

Max max gets 177 in both stats with timid

[dapper crag]

You'd get Special Attack always

[polar canyon]

Yeah that sounds good

[dapper crag]

That's what I was gettign with that spread in Singles too

[polar canyon]

Didn't want to drop speed to get spatk proto

I'll have to if I use non max max anyways

[dapper crag]

Yeah some were running a bit less EV in Sp.A to get the speed booster lol

One of the few instances where max/max was detrimental lol

[dull ibex]

drop turn for blitz

[craggy swan]

rate the team

[dapper crag]

without seeing the sets this looks pretty great on paper, really standard Mons + Archuladon looks pretty good. You've got the cheeky Life Orb Chien-Pao which might surprise your opponent given it's anticipated being Sash most of the times.

[craggy swan]

was thinking of giving archuladon choice specs

[dapper crag]

way to go, your call is the best option rn since nobody knows what to do yet with Reg F

[bronze niche]

whats the best way to use regileki? (sorry if its a stupid question in extremely new to competitive)

[dapper crag]

It does one thing really consistently and it's being fast

You can use it with ElectroWeb for speed control, it deals nice damage too but it lacks coverage options in it's arsenal

[keen karma]

Im thinking how would latios shifu and chien pao be

[dapper crag]

Basic Eleki set can be Thunderbolt Electroweb Volt Switch Protect with a Magnet Item using Tera Electric for damage amp

You can also use the Tera Blast variant with Ice Tera to hit opposing Ground Mons

[nocturne holly]

Dude hunting for this kitten is fucking annoying

[bronze niche]

alright

[keen karma]

i warned you

[bronze niche]

i think ill do tera electric for the damage boost

[nocturne holly]

I did like 30 resets and couldn’t get a outbreak

[dapper crag]

It's pretty straight forward, not the most used Mon but it definitely isn't unusable

[keen karma]

chien pao can go on balance right?

[next stump]

yes

[tough idol]

Any input is welcome, I'll have a paste at some point, 2 days prior lol since I know not many here are going to compete on my Region.

[keen karma]

wait latias gets flip turn

who whould've thought about that

[next stump]

I think latias will need a scarf to work well

[fallen rivet]

https://pokepast.es/e5449a5b984ff30a I don’t know what spreads are best for archaludon, torn, and incin. Any recommendations? Also is the team synergy ok or should I make some adjustments?

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 380: Latias

Types

Dragon/Psychic

Abilities

Levitate

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

80/80/90/110/130/110

Total

600

Other Formes

Latias-Mega

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[keen karma]

that spd is bonkers

not covert dark tera?

ill try out scarf ig

[tough idol]

Won't load for me?

[fallen rivet]

Works fine on my end

[next stump]

you need a tera that covers for flutter

or protect

[tough idol]

Nvm I'm on the shit phone

[bronze niche]

how can i check iv's down to the number on s/v?

[next stump]

outside damage calc

[bronze niche]

?

[keen karma]

https://pokepast.es/2de11dced3f06709 so something like this is latias/latios balance

[bronze niche]

so im trying to fight the e4 dragon dude in the dlc, and i have this obama snow set up
Abomasnow
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 71
Tera Type: Grass

• Aurora Veil
• Mist
• Brick Break
• Icy Wind
  is there anything i can pair him with? like beartic because of slush rush?

[next stump]

https://nerd-of-now.github.io/NCP-VGC-Damage-Calculator/

plug in the stats and level of your pokemon here

and you can deduce the actual IV number

within a 1-2 range

[bronze niche]

alright

kinda confused on how the damage calc works

[junior anvil]

Mamoswine likes snow and aurora veil and helps with coverage, but you probably want high horsepower over earthquake unless you put protect on Obama

[keen karma]

nvm the team is literally just tw ho

[bronze niche]

dont got protect, so instead of icy wind i should put high horsepower?

[vocal steppe]

I have been experimenting with 252 HP and 156 to 200 defense impish on incin. Gives you alright chance to live scarf shifu sets and can take a lando stomping tantrum. But that might be more important for me than you since u got amoongus. Cool team btw

[junior anvil]

High horsepower on mamoswine

[bronze niche]

oh alr

[faint nest]

Honestly eletrco shot isn’t good if you don’t have a rain setter or power herb

Also run Tera grass

[tough idol]

I swept using Deocrate Alcremie plus Mane.

Granted I was EV trained plus items

[fallen rivet]

Ty

[gentle crag]

wafflefries.787b has given 1 Gen Rep to sly_ty99

[bronze niche]

deocrate?

[fallen rivet]

Torn is my rain setter tho idk how good it is

[tough idol]

Alcremie move, gives teammate +2 spatk

[bronze niche]

oh decorate

yeah thats useful

i need a spatk mon though

[tough idol]

I used scarf Alcremie to outspeed Flutter

[nocturne holly]

what Tera for archaludon

https://pokepast.es/2587b3ae258d996a time to test with this

[faint nest]

Grass

[tough idol]

Grass, pairs with other members

[nocturne holly]

Dude

Incineroar is so nice
Few games I’ve played with it and it doesn’t feel toxic or whatever at all

[next stump]

I wonder if flying archaludon will see play

[nocturne holly]

I was thinking bout flying

similar to when we saw flying dengo ig

[keen karma]

does it need it

[next stump]

it's weak to fighting, ground

is that it?

neutral to fire, neutral to dragon, neutral to fire, resists water

[nocturne holly]

Yea that’s it

[cyan smelt]

So archaludon is basically a better hoodra

[nocturne holly]

Archaludon goes HARD

tbh metagross feels the weakest on my team

[next stump]

I think metagross is not a super intuitive pokemon

it's only obvious utility is being a pretty hard counter to flutter

[fallen rivet]

I feel like the two have different roles

[nocturne holly]

DUEDE

WHAT ARE ALL THESE FUCKING SIMPLE BEAM LATIOS STRATS

SO ANNOYING

HOLY FUCK

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2013209602

[dapper crag]

Metagross [Steel/Psychic]

Hits for 0.5x

Steel

Hits for 1x

Bug, Dark, Dragon, Electric, Fire, Flying, Ghost, Grass, Ground, Normal, Psychic, Water

Hits for 2x

Fairy, Fighting, Ice, Poison, Rock

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

Metagross [Steel/Psychic]

Immune

Poison

Resists (0.25x)

Psychic

Resists (0.5x)

Dragon, Fairy, Flying, Grass, Ice, Normal, Rock, Steel

Neutral damage

Bug, Electric, Fighting, Water

Weak (2x)

Dark, Fire, Ghost, Ground

Type Notes

Steel-types cannot be Poisoned.
Steel-types take no damage from Sandstorm.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[fallen rivet]

note to self, put clear smog on amongus

[keen karma]

any1 have a link to the most recent japanese tourney

[nocturne holly]

Thin ima do LO metagross
Want it outputting more damage
Putting AV on archaludon

[cyan smelt]

Topsy turvy Malamar would be funny with those dondozo strats

[fallen rivet]

Lul

[dapper crag]

Move: Topsy-Turvy

The target's positive stat stages become negative and vice versa. Fails if all of the target's stat stages are 0.

Type

Dark

Category

Status

Power

0

Accuracy

—

PP (max)

20 (32)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Does not make contact.

Reflectable

Affected by Magic Coat and Magic Bounce.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[keen karma]

looks like it would be a niche but good move on smeargle

looks like a perfect counter to annihilape

[dapper crag]

Move: Sketch

This move is permanently replaced by the last move used by the target. The copied move has the maximum PP for that move. Fails if the target has not made a move, if the user has Transformed, or if the move is Chatter, Sketch, Struggle, or any move the user knows.

Type

Normal

Category

Status

Power

0

Accuracy

—

PP (max)

1 (1.6)

Move Flags

​

Protect

Bypasses Protect-like moves.

Authentic

Bypasses substitute.

Contact

Does not make contact.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[silk lily]

Wait so archaludons ability makes his defense every time

He gets hit? Thats so broken

[nocturne holly]

https://pokepast.es/42e86389dc59b60c what I have so far
Archaludon kinda carrying
incin also a baddie

[fallen rivet]

What’s like a good crash course on doing damage calcs idk what I’m doing lul

[next stump]

like the actual process of doing a damage calc, or what to look for when you're EVing a pokemon

[fallen rivet]

Both I guess

[next stump]

https://nerd-of-now.github.io/NCP-VGC-Damage-Calculator/

when doing a calc, you just want to put the EVs of your pokemon, the nature of your pokemon, the correct item, and then any field effects that may lead to more or less damage. You then need to put in what you believe to be the opponents EVs to be, usually I just find the most common spread on Pikalytics and test against that

you can even save your pokemons' sets on here if you have a team that you want to test multiple things for

what to look for when EVing a pokemon gets quite a bit more complicated... and is IMO what separates good players from great ones

[fallen rivet]

I see

I assume it goes beyond (I must survive x attack from y pokemon) then?

[next stump]

You essentially need to put your pokemon/team into hypothetical scenarios (some people call these "lines") and EV based on those scenarios, I'll give you an example from my recent MSS tournament that I won

I had Urshifu + Farigarif as one of my go-to leads, and many people would lead Amoonguss or Iron Hands into it.

I made sure to put enough SpA EVs onto my Farigarif to ensure that Tera Water Surging Strikes + Psychic was always a KO onto Amoonguss and Iron Hands (it took 100 SpA EVs + a Modest Nature)

If I did not go for that damage calc, Amoonguss and Hands would live that double-up and it would completely alter how the game plays out

[fallen rivet]

I see

So basically study the meta and scenario every relevant line until you get a satisfactory set then?

[next stump]

Yes, once you have a team down you need to theorize how you'd play into the most common teams/leads and you can sometimes EV around that

some pokemon are always going to be optimal at 252/252/4

[fallen rivet]

Like chien pao

[next stump]

but most have room for improvement based off what you need them to do

[fallen rivet]

Right

[silk lily]

Do u like the mons being back mlbd

[next stump]

At the end of the day, this is stuff that will not effect the majority of your games if you're just playing the ladder for fun

[fallen rivet]

I’m especially struggling with my torn arch and incin lol

[next stump]

But if you ever want to compete seriously, it is important

[fallen rivet]

Right right

[fallen rivet]

Thank you so much for the advice I really appreciate it!

[gentle crag]

wafflefries.787b has given 1 Gen Rep to mlbd

[next stump]

Of course, I'm always happy to help 😄

[tiny peak]

So guys I'm building my team corviknight/rayquaza/zacian/swampert/miraidon/heat rotom, what movesets should rotom and corv hav as support? I'm thinking pivot for both but not sure on what moves I need to fit

[craggy swan]

should I do choice specs or assualt vest of archaludon?

[next stump]

AV IMO

[tiny peak]

Dillon any thoughts on my question

[next stump]

I don't play singles, I'm sorry

[karmic temple]

Suicune with scald !!! Stonks going up

[bold geode]

Wassup you lovely motherfuckers
How y'all doing tonight

[amber patrol]

I have BP, meteor mash, psychic fangs on my Metagross, what should the 4th move be, also kinda wondering what I should do EV wise

[bold geode]

I say max HP max attack is one way to go
Adjust how you need from there
Also Body Press ain't too bad

[tiny peak]

So guys I'm building my team corviknight/rayquaza/zacian/swampert/miraidon/heat rotom, what movesets should rotom and corv hav as support? I'm thinking pivot for both but not sure on what moves I need to fit

[amber patrol]

What would you say about Max atk, max defense, and a special def boosting move?

[bold geode]

Nah not really
Actually hold on

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 376: Metagross

Types

Steel/Psychic

Abilities

Clear Body, Light Metal (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

80/135/130/95/90/70

Total

600

Other Formes

Metagross-Mega

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[bold geode]

What item you running?

[amber patrol]

Haven't decided either

[bold geode]

Cuz depending on item, you definitely actually want more Spdef investment
Since your physical defense is high already

Still probably want physical defense investment, but not as much as the special

[amber patrol]

I've seen assault vest be used

[bold geode]

That can work
Body Press as a 4th

[amber patrol]

How about 76 sp def 180 def

[bold geode]

Then just EV from there
I can't really say as I haven't touched Metagross really, I just know you want to patch up that spdef