competitive_discussion

[mighty stump]

But why

[molten oasis]

That’s just the rule

[mighty stump]

:/

[mellow barn]

I wrote it on the rules

[molten oasis]

Opposing mon will target the mon weak to the move it clicks

[mighty stump]

This is not a good puzzle

[mellow barn]

Sorry Will do better next time

[molten oasis]

I like these send more

But yes better puzzles would be appreciated

[mighty stump]

Have fun, good luck, Fake Out isn’t available

Also, not mine

Answer as Spoiler

[molten oasis]

Ight

[keen karma]

Finally got heatran ffs

[molten oasis]

I think

[keen karma]

I know the answer

[pine sleet]

I am trying so hard to make H-Goodra work but man the power creep is so much -.-

[keen karma]

Its def possible to make it work

Send a team

Or whar you have

[molten oasis]

||Maybe you need to try to finish the game with perish song. So you click perish song first turn and switch hands into great tusk. Then the next turn you need to fake out into goth I believe to prevent psychic from doing damage before the game ends. In the event amoonguss chooses to spore on the first turn hands won’t be spored and instead will go into tusk. To stall out the turns hands needs to Tera to be able to stall out perish song. I’m assuming they double into scream tail|| I think this is one solution you could do

It’s under that in the event anyone wants to try and solve it

[pine sleet]

Well atm I try Ursaluna, Ogerpon (fire), H-Goodra, Fluttermane, Iron Hands, Landorus

But idk I think I'm doing smth wrong? People kinda just sweep me? (I am new to team building and comp in general - but I really try)

The Goodra atm is Sap sipper + Leftovers with a defensive EV spread (max HP, 160 Def, 96 Spdef)

like a wall - a Snail wall

Last time a full ice mon team kicked my ass really hard

[karmic temple]

Please switch to shell armor rather than sap sipper

The ev spread is ok what moves are you using

[pine sleet]

Acid Spray, Thunder Bolt, Draco Meteor, and that one 80 BP special steel beam move if which I forgot the english name of...

again (I'm sorry I don't play the game in english)

[molten oasis]

I’m think tofu is sleeping so imma click the solution and see if I was even close

Well I was right about perish song

[keen karma]

Get rid of ursaluna add grimm or ninetales alola

You normally want to keep hoodra on field as long as possible

[pine sleet]

I got a Ninetales with Aurora Veil, Ice Shard, Freeze Dry, Dazzling Gleam (max spA, Speed)

[pine sleet]

What Terra do you think is best then? Flying or Fairy? (I've been told both)

[molten oasis]

Oh dude I totally missed the leftovers

I think what I said still works

OH WAIT

volt switch cuz of shadow tag

Ahhh

[keen karma]

aurora veil, freeze dry/blizzard/moonblast/icy wind, protect, encore

[molten oasis]

I was also right about Tera fire

So I was close I just forgot about shadow tag and didn’t think about leftovers

[pine sleet]

both protect and encore?

[keen karma]

Thats what i do

[pine sleet]

ok I'll try it -

[mighty stump]

Lol

It just started with knowing you have to click Perish Song

[molten oasis]

Yea you have to win with perish

[mighty stump]

It doesnt matter when you have to trade, you just have to set up Perish Song and get Hands out of there

[molten oasis]

And then my thought with switching was spot on just forgot about tag

[mighty stump]

That’s it, really

Lol

[molten oasis]

Damn that was a good puzzle tho

I will take more puzzles

If anyone has more

[dull ibex]

Hi

[mellow barn]

I made another one, hope this is more to your liking

[tired sage]

:0 puzzles about comp ooooo

[dull ibex]

theyr'e cool

[icy vale]

For Duraludon is heavy metal or light metal ability better for it? One doubles its weight and the other halves it. It's only 88.2 pounds/40 kilograms. If both are terrible I might just patch the one I have for the HA

[tired sage]

technically light metal cause of low sweep but… both are pretty terrible in vgc

[nocturne holly]

whyd you spoiler it

[molten oasis]

It’s for people that want to solve it

[nocturne holly]

oh

[keen karma]

I just realized blaziken + bisharp got buffed

[molten oasis]

Ik what to do

[nocturne holly]

how

[molten oasis]

Wait

Hmm maybe not

[keen karma]

Well kinda they used to run mega blaziken + bisharp

Against incin

But now there is kingambit

But no blaziken

[molten oasis]

You have to click surging into deedee first turn

I don’t think clicking cc is optimal

[keen karma]

Never restart swsh

Dynamax adventures fucking suck

You have shitty ai playing with you

[molten oasis]

Wait actually, I think you trick and cc first turn

You can’t safely click shadow ball and if they don’t Tera it doesn’t hit

If Deedee does Tera it still takes big damage

[keen karma]

You dont kill indeedee tbh with surging i dont tbink

[molten oasis]

You don’t

Tricking deedee prevents it from doing anything

[mellow barn]

Close Combat actually works with Indeedee F that is Tera Water

Not OHKO

[molten oasis]

And i think no matter what first turn is follow me and tr

[mellow barn]

But more damage

[molten oasis]

Mhmm

I don’t think you can tbolt

[mellow barn]

You sure?

[molten oasis]

Yes

Because, dengo needs shadow ball to win the 1v1

Against arma if it gets into that position

I’m guessing that shifu bulk would live expanding?

If it Tera’s

[mellow barn]

Nope

[molten oasis]

Wtf is the purpose of the bulk then

[mellow barn]

Good question

[molten oasis]

It doesn’t care about dazzling

Deedee would go down first turn to specs tbolt and cc

But then you’re choice locked

[mellow barn]

Wait...

Let me check

[molten oasis]

I don’t think this is even winnable unless your opponent throws

All they need to do is tr follow me first turn

Then kill shifu with expanding force

Then armor cannon dengo

Tera steel specs make it rain doesn’t kill Deedee, I think

[mellow barn]

Gholdengo can live two Expanding forces from Armarouge

[molten oasis]

It doesn’t because of the +1

[molten oasis]

It doesn’t matter much cuz it has armor cannon

Oh wait

[mellow barn]

IF Indeedee Tera Waters

[molten oasis]

Well no again thah doesn’t work

[mellow barn]

And Urshifu Detects

[molten oasis]

If shifu detects you just go down to expanding next turn under tr

If indeedee Tera waters and I click tbolt

And shifu clicks cc

It goes down

[mellow barn]

Yes

[molten oasis]

The next turn arma has to pick to kill shifu or dengo

Dengo is locked into tbolt

So arma just removes shifu

Shifu can’t aqua jet because of psychic terrain

Shifu could detect and dengo can try to get dsmage

[mellow barn]

And Armarouge is Life Orb Sweeper

[molten oasis]

Uhh

Tbolt only does 60%

Dengo isn’t slower than arma

[mellow barn]

Had to check the calculus

[molten oasis]

I’m pretty sure this is unwinable. Your out is him clicking expanding into shifu instead of armor cannon into dengo

well, no legit I think it’s unwinnable even with life orb chip

[karmic temple]

I think if dragon Tera dengo you could win no?

[molten oasis]

Dengo is steel Tera

[mellow barn]

The risk is in 50/50 chance with Armarouge.
Expanding Force hits both, but Urshifu can kill it if it focus on Gholdengo

[molten oasis]

Yea so it’s just,

[karmic temple]

Right I’m just saying if dragon instead of steel in the puzzle

[molten oasis]

Risky

There’s no guaranteed way to win

[karmic temple]

I’m also 6 margs deep so

I only briefly looked at the puzzle and chat after

[molten oasis]

There’s a way to win

But it’s not guaranteed

[mellow barn]

There are multiple ways to win and many scenarios

[molten oasis]

You could also win if indeedee Tera waters and you read the Tera and shadow ball

[mellow barn]

Just like in Tofu's puzzle

[molten oasis]

That is another way to win

[mellow barn]

You could... if damage calculation is on your favour

[molten oasis]

Cc+shadow ball kills

Then you surging and shadow ball the turn after arma trick rooms

[mellow barn]

Possible. (I test run it few games and Indeedee always lived )

[molten oasis]

Cc and shadow ball?

[mellow barn]

Yep

[molten oasis]

oh close combat does less than I though it did

Ok so yea I think you cc tbolt

The you 50/50

Protect on shifu

Or don’t

[mellow barn]

The Shadow Ball play is also viable. But then again it's tricky if you roll high on damage

But! With tera you could do some mind trickery.

[next stump]

https://twitter.com/chefvgc/status/1684977516040073224?s=46&t=fDxHQLlKCKU_ddfszOAZ6w

these puzzles are fun as well

[mellow barn]

In real game that affects too

[next stump]

image from the tweet

[mellow barn]

[karmic temple]

I remember seeing this on Twitter and I vaguely remember the answer

[ember linden]

Is that a showdown add on like the background add ons ppl use or something smogon is actually implementing??

[bold geode]

Wasn't it like hitting Cress with SS and reviving it same turn?

[keen karma]

Man imagine av dnite in reg d

[next stump]

AV dnite won the first reg D regional IIRC

or maybe it was banded with thunder punch

[keen karma]

Av dnite was actually like popular in reg d?

Or it fell off

Because i remember seeing a ton of banded

Then people in reg e running av like it wad new

[dapper crag]

that looks like written analysis of the situation

Tried Close Combat over Drain Punch on my Iron Hands and made a more offensive spread, really good

[keen karma]

Yikes

[next stump]

throat spray farigarif is busted as fuck hahaha

feels so good to play

[dapper crag]

nice

I feel confident enough to experiment a bit more outside of the meta stuff this season

[keen karma]

Ive seen the set but just couldnt use it

I felt like the damage was lacking

I have improved since then so imma try it again

[next stump]

i'm modest 100SpA and I'm 2 hitting most pokemon I see

tornadus, chien-pao, etc.

[keen karma]

Wow

Chiyu + farig?

[dapper crag]

made a team using Chien-Pao Iron Hands Amoonguss Iron Bundle Flutter Mane Urshifu-Water, liking it so far

[next stump]

nope, just farigarif

hyper voice needs to do around 40% on the first hit for it to be a 2HKO

[nocturne holly]

tr is hard to pilot

that is what I have learned over only 2 days

[silver ravine]

Besides Ogerpon what would be a good water type for a hyper offense team? So far I have Choice Spec Inteleon

[dapper crag]

Urshifu

poster child of hyper offense

[silver ravine]

Should've included him as I don't have SWSH D:

[dapper crag]

Trade for one

otherwise Iron Bundle is really great

Brings ton of damage + great speed control into one slot

Freeze-Dry + Hydro Pump is really awesome offensive duality

Pokémon No. 991: Iron Bundle

Types

Ice/Water

Abilities

Quark Drive

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

56/80/114/124/60/136

Total

570

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

with good hp investment suprisingly can take a couple of hits on the physical side

[silver ravine]

Yeah Iron Bundle could do the trick. What do you think would be the step below/budget option? Like how Gliscor/Garchomp is a budget Landorus and Whimsicott is a budget Tornadus.

[dapper crag]

Iron Bundle is already a good budget Pokemon

checks speed control + really awesome damage Pokemon

is in the base game

Otherwise Milotic/Dondozo are great Water type

[silver ravine]

True. Just need to get some more caps and the right mint

[silver ravine]

Thanks for the help

[gentle crag]

striferealists has given 1 Gen Rep to raymeta

[dapper crag]

dondozo tatsugiri is a one of a heck duo. Don't see them too much but they're so hard to breakthrough

[silver ravine]

Yeah they'd be a fun core to use

[ember linden]

One might argue tornadus is a budget whimsicott

[dapper crag]

the extra reach they never expect lol

[ember linden]

I would only use cc iron hands on the faster or less bulky variants

They expect it if it’s ots

[dapper crag]

this a team for ladder

[ember linden]

Okay?

[dapper crag]

ots you can expect stuff ya

it's not too common but can be devastating, getting a cheeky kill gets you ahead on board

[ember linden]

Jamie Boyt is using cc hands

But it is a faster, less bulky variant of hands

He might not be actively using it but he has used it

[dapper crag]

wasn't that their team report last video ?

ya it is, they used it last tournament they were in

[ember linden]

I’m not sure, I watched a Neil vid and he said that cc hands was Jamie Boyt’s hands build

[dapper crag]

I checked

[ember linden]

K

[dapper crag]

got the idea from cybertronvgc featuring their team, gave it a shot with my own spread and it's really not bad, just don't play it like you got drain punch recovery lol

[ember linden]

Well no shit lmao

I don’t think I’d use it but I see it fs

[chrome knot]

my balls itch

[ember linden]

Erm

What the flip

I’m eating Klawf after that

[next stump]

nice

[ember linden]

🦀

[next stump]

[bold geode]

[molten oasis]

[molten oasis]

I wish

Whims does similar things

But whims has faster taunt

So torn is gonna be running mental herb more I think

[next stump]

rank 2 on ladder rn is running screens dragapult with wisp

[molten oasis]

Interesting

Super fast wisp is crazy tbf

Like being able to wisp chien pao and shifu is huge rn

[dapper crag]

or click the wind move and pressure whims

[molten oasis]

It’s gonna run sash

Whims preventing torn from doing its job is a good thing

Even if it dies in the process

[dapper crag]

so torn can go offensive and remove it in the process

[molten oasis]

sash…

[nocturne holly]

Common Dillon W

[cyan smelt]

wonder which will be better out of metagross and iron crown

[dapper crag]

sash won't stop the partner from doubling it imo

[molten oasis]

Ok

Whims still prevents torn from doing it’s job

And you can lead whims with incin

So incin can fake out the partner

[dapper crag]

torn deals nice damage

[molten oasis]

Or hands

[dapper crag]

i like offensive supports so good

[molten oasis]

Or just fo Mon period

[dapper crag]

ya sometimes tornadus just click bleakwind over and over

covers potential taunt

[molten oasis]

That pressure is plenty enough to get your mons in position

Also bleakwind is inaccurate

So it could just miss

[dapper crag]

you still spam it in some situations because it gets damage on the board

[molten oasis]

Fair

[dapper crag]

covers taunt

if they don't taunt, you tailwind T2

[nocturne holly]

In torn mirror?

[molten oasis]

I also think torn will be running mental herb a lot more

[molten oasis]

Whims v torn

[nocturne holly]

ah ok yea bleakwind then

[dapper crag]

nah

[molten oasis]

I think sash is gonna be the play for whims

[dapper crag]

torn mirror is really about what partner you got and they have + your tech, plays very differently from player to player

[molten oasis]

I think incin whims will be pretty strong

[nocturne holly]

I was asking for the context
Ik how to handle torn mirror

[molten oasis]

Scroll up lol

[dapper crag]

thing is with torn mirror, it's not just cookie cutter one line of play, lot of things going around contested prio lead

[nocturne holly]

it looked like it was being generalized

[molten oasis]

I see

Well anyway

I think whims will have sash so it can usually get off 2 moves before it dies

So like, it can taunt and tw, or tw and encore, or sunny day and tw

I also think covert could be decent

And whims is good into shifu

Outspeeds it and resists it’s stabs

[dapper crag]

Life Orb Chien-Pao deals crazy damage it's insane

[molten oasis]

Also in a situation with like for example, hands and whims vs shifu and torn, you are forced into a 50/50 situation where torn needs to either 1, match tw with whimsicott, or 2, get it down to sash/kill it

Shifu can aqua jet to confirm the kill

But hands also threatens kos on both torn and shifu

And fake out pressure

And ofc it’s gonna be mu/partner dependent

But I think whims v torn is gonna be fun to watch/play through

[heady onyx]

oh what set

[next stump]

rank 1 team rn

[mighty stump]

Did you see the new archetype

Kingambit Amoonguss balance be dropping

[nocturne holly]

It also has prio spore

[nocturne holly]

Just max max poison poison Tera

[heady onyx]

?

[next stump]

damn such a close game against him

he had double kick life orb ogerpon which won him the game against chien-pao

[dull ibex]

do tell

[mighty stump]

Fighting coverage is even better now cause Kjngambit is back

Ive teched fighting moves on to things that generally would not hit Kingambit

[dapper crag]

oh yeah fighting tech is nice, good offensive typing

[mighty stump]

its just that + 4, either Lando/Hands/Flutter with Heatran

Or you can go offensive

but the duo is Kingambit Amoonguss as your anchor

Cause it can make for trickier board positioning

[dull ibex]

I wonder if I should try

[mighty stump]

I assume the logic also follows the one ive carried in.e. forcing an unfavourable situation on the chance Bleakwind triggers Defiant

[dull ibex]

kingambit balance stream 👀

im done with AC til 5-7 so im able to stream vgc

[rain cedar]

Hey guys does Fairy Feather affects Sylveon normal type move with pixilate turning normal into fairy moves just asking for competitive build

[mighty stump]

It does.

[dapper crag]

oh nice kingambit amoonguss balance looks like a fire duo to build around ty tofu for the heads up

great recommendation

[dull ibex]

https://discord.com/channels/663661005514997770/1180703381489201182

[ember linden]

Erm, what the deuce

[rain cedar]

Stupid question is Iron Valiant good at Competitive alongside With Iron Hands?

[dull ibex]

what is everyone so confused about?

[ember linden]

I wouldn’t say so

[ember linden]

I was saying that just to say it lol

[dull ibex]

what is jay confused about lmao

[rain cedar]

Is it mid or bad?

[ember linden]

Both🗣️🔥🔥

[rain cedar]

...

But Iron Hands 100% good

[rain cedar]

How about Hisui Zoroark?

[mighty stump]

Bad

[ember linden]

Horrible

[mighty stump]

Screens beating Michael Kelsch

[ember linden]

I tried to use it in reg-d 😭😭

[mighty stump]

Lando-I surfacing everywhere

[ember linden]

It may or may not have came to my games zero times🗣️🔥🔥🔥

[dull ibex]

So doing gambit amoong, plus shifu and heatran

lando and hands?

@ember linden we already have a grass type I dont like rillaboom here

these sets are set in stone

im pretty okay with the generic versions of mons

[dull ibex]

stupid question what does anchor mean in this case

[mighty stump]

Your fallback

I view anchors on teams as the thing thats staying on the field that maintain a board position for you

That the opponent has to actively account for

[dapper crag]

you linked somethign and I don't know why

[dull ibex]

its a vc??????

[dapper crag]

I don't know why you linked that

[dull ibex]

im in it?

[dapper crag]

So you link the vc you are in ? Why ?

[dull ibex]

so people know and can join????

[dapper crag]

Ha ok

Didn't know why you would link that now it makes sense

thought you just misclicked something

[dull ibex]

fair

[dapper crag]

what would you qualify as an anchor ? utility oriented bulky Pokemon like Amoonguss or Cresselia ?

[dull ibex]

I built a baseline 6 im gonna play to masterball and see if there is anything I want to change

[mighty stump]

Its like dependant, I consider combinations/solos that are difficult to remove such as for example, in earlier regulations

Bulk Up Screens Annihilape

Amoonguss Kingambit can create a position depending on the set where it can be difficult to overall get Kingambit to go away

[dapper crag]

So would you say Amoonguss and Cresselia qualify for this role sort of ?

[mighty stump]

or Amoonguss can start forcing the opponent to start running around

because they dont want to be spored

[mighty stump]

They dont necessarily have to be bulky as well, as a strong offensive pressure that threatens outright KOs can deter certain mons as well

[dapper crag]

so you see anchor as something that pins the board in your favor ?

[mighty stump]

Cresselia can provide sustain to lock down your position if they have a unfavourable matchup

Yes

[dapper crag]

ha okay I thought about heavy anchor on boat sort of

[dull ibex]

bringing gambit moongus all 3 games so far

[mighty stump]

And the opponent has to active position around

[dapper crag]

but anchor in like hard to remove from the current position makes more sense

[mighty stump]

Exactly

At least thats how I think of it, I don’t know if other people mean differently using that term

[dapper crag]

they can, I like that definition

gonna write it down in my notes

[keen karma]

man why tf im always missing these events

[dapper crag]

looking some group stage games, nice event good games great quality

[mighty stump]

its WCOP

Its somewhat streamed but not by TPCI

So unless youre searching for it you’re not really going to find it

[keen karma]

ah ok

does anyone have anything explaining stuff like balance and standard and stuff like that

i've been going off of typing cores

[mighty stump]

Kind of

Hold on

VGC guide has excerpts

and ill fine my own words for it too

[chrome knot]

pppp

[mighty stump]

Hyper Offense basically uses speed control and heavy offensive pressure to eliminate as many resources of the opposing team as possible and prevent any foothold in the game i.e. breaking the team by speed and hitting hard

Balance repositions and waits for a favourable board state to then break through the opposing team, rather than immediately always going on the offensive

Bulky Offense to me focuses on establishing an anchor/foothold, mounting positional pressure due to strong defensive/offensive presence

Stall would be using a combination of recovery, switching and overall sheer bulk to whittle the enemy resources down through passive damage while being hard to break, its proactive in its positioning

Theres also like, obviously off shoots and other formulas for the archetypes like Redirection + Setup and stuff

[keen karma]

alright thank you

[dull ibex]

So bulky offense fits me well so does ho

[keen karma]

for me bulky and balance

i like playing reposition games

[dull ibex]

I still want to play bulky offense

[mighty stump]

Yeah its all playstyle dependant too and what people find satisfying

it also narrows downs the options youll likely consider when teambuilding

[dull ibex]

Do you want to vc tofu?

friends want to play league and got off lethal company so I have nothing to do again lmao

[mighty stump]

On a date

We just in the car

[dull ibex]

ah fair enough

[mighty stump]

no im not driving, got a driver lol

in case anyones wondering

and also no its not cause we’re rich, its common in Indonesia

[dull ibex]

🤔 interesting

[mighty stump]

any middle class chindo family tends to have drivers/helpers

[dull ibex]

america is lame LMAO

[mighty stump]

Well its cause we’re third world

and cost of living is different

[dull ibex]

fair enough

[deep sparrow]

Dude I’ve gotta get better against TR teams. Most of my losses are TR

[carmine ledge]

have you tried the jamie boyt team? it works really well in and out of TR, and they never expect it

[deep sparrow]

I haven’t. Which team is it?

[carmine ledge]

https://pokepast.es/8f27901ed38d279d

he got 9th at gdansk with it

really smartly EV'd

he did a team report on youtube if you search his name

[deep sparrow]

I’ll have to check it out! Thanks

[cyan smelt]

there's also a good regidrago team that works in and out of tr, cybertron featured it in a recent video

[pine sleet]

Could H-Goodra, H-Zoroark, A9, Volcarona, Garchomp & Meowscarada work as a team in any way or form? (I'm just trying to make my faves work, I'm not expecting to win every game)

[ionic shell]

are sun teams still alive

[deep sparrow]

I think I know the video you’re talking about Lol. It’s probably why I’m seeing so many regidrago, torkoal, ursaluna teams. But I’m not wanting to climb ladder quickly by doing the same as others. I’m just trying to learn Lol.

[cyan smelt]

Can confirm the regidrago team is really fun

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 936: Armarouge

Types

Fire/Psychic

Abilities

Flash Fire, Weak Armor (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

85/60/100/125/80/75

Total

525

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

Pokémon No. 901: Ursaluna

Types

Ground/Normal

Abilities

Guts, Bulletproof, Unnerve (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

130/140/105/45/80/50

Total

550

Other Formes

Ursaluna-Bloodmoon

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[feral ledge]

https://pokepast.es/7831b141ba8ec109
This team I uploaded yesterday is great but it keeps losing to expanding force… Any suggestions on strategies?

[nocturne holly]

By e force you mean Armarouge+indeedee? If so I would lead smth like harc+hoodra/Milotic then switch harc into rilla to reset grassy terrain

[next stump]

this team gets a bit run over by TR

[charred saddle]

the only hope you can do is reset terrain with rilla, and rockslide Harc ig (?)

if it flinches on setting TR thats free damage considering indeedee likes to follow me

[nocturne holly]

but yea you do struggle with tr

[feral ledge]

Yeah and I just learned that Bruxish had this ability called Dazzling which blocks Fake Out and other priority moves while setting up Trick Room. This is a pain… I mean props to people who have time to study the entire Pokédex and have that strategy… I’m a school teacher lol

[next stump]

yeah Bruxish/Farigarif have essentially the same ability

and serve kinda similar functions

[feral ledge]

I just don’t want to go through the hassle of a rebuild after finally picking a team I really like with Pokémon I really like instead of entirely meta top mon’s

[next stump]

you don't have to, but you do have to accept that you really need to play well into TR

[chrome knot]

stupid fish

[next stump]

Assault Vest Rillaboom can help, a set up move like Coil on your Milotic could help, Shelter Goodra can do its thing into physical matchups

[feral ledge]

Tbh I have a shiny H-Goodra so I really wanted to build a team around it 🫣😅

Finally beat this TR team that has beaten me twice! Whew!

[mellow barn]

Made another VGC Puzzle

[nocturne holly]

I think I might scrap tr team
It’s just not my playstyle

[short nebula]

hey guys new to this

where do i start to build a team hahah

[next stump]

are you playing singles or doubles

or which are you interested in

[short nebula]

Doubles!

[next stump]

Let me send you some resources that are helpful, but as a side note I really highly recommend you do not try to build your own teams right away

Use rental teams or use other people’s teams as a framework to base yours off of

[short nebula]

ah i see

[next stump]

https://www.vgcguide.com/ (Helpful website for basics and also to get your feet wet)

https://www.pikalytics.com/ (Shows you usage data and helps you build Pokémon)

https://nerd-of-now.github.io/NCP-VGC-Damage-Calculator/ (Damage calculator that is very helpful when building teams or reflecting on games)

https://youtube.com/c/CybertronVGC (Best channel for daily VGC content, guiding you through the thought process you need for success)

https://victoryroadvgc.com/ (Tournament results, team reports and breakdowns, and rental codes can be found here)

https://twitter.com/VGCPastes - Tournament and high ranked teams

https://twitter.com/vgccorner - Helpful Twitter account that posts in-depth EV spreads and ideas about competitive pokemon

There are dozens of other resources, some of which are in the pinned messages of this channel. But these IMO are the best places to start absorbing knowledge and getting to a place where you're comfortable with VGC

[short nebula]

woahhh

thanks alot man ill look throught the links

[nocturne holly]

fr dillons starter pack

[mellow barn]

[next stump]

I gotta update it haha some stuff is either outdated or there’s new stuff now that’s good

[mellow barn]

Should I climb on ladder in VGC before DLC even when I am Master Rank already or wait out and let chaos ensue from DLC?

[nocturne holly]

dlc shit starts January

Like when it becomes legal
DLC only comes out in 2 weeks tho

[mellow barn]

Ah so there is no rush. Perfect.

I have exams etc. coming in and need to prepare for those too

[feral ledge]

Sorry had to step out so currently I have AV on my Dragonite. What Item shuffle would you suggest? Reposting my team to help

https://pokepast.es/e3d80e5b8278959c

[charred saddle]

maybe specs on flutter (?)

since youre going 4 move coverage anyway, and i dont think you need that much speed

dgleam fairy tera is also very strong idk about not having it

its my opinion, moonblast dgleam and shadowball is the common moves since its working really well, usually a 4th flex cover move for timid max speed specs

[feral ledge]

I am redoing FM’s stats to 100 HP / 140 Def / 192 SAtk/ 76 Spe
Timid Nature

Taking away mystical fire for Protect

Just haven’t updated on Showdown yet

I think if I go AV on Rilla, I’ll keep sitrus berry on Milotic, but it comes down to what to do with Dragonite… Do I run Silk Scarf to increase ES? Do I run Life Orb to make him hit like a tank? Dragonite is my favorite Pokemon of all time so I want to use it right!

[charred saddle]

choice band dnite, AV rilla, sitrus Harc and other item for milotic is also a possibility

btw i think inner focus > multiscale

evades flinch from FO and no intim

since you dont really need CC on Harc

[feral ledge]

If I remove Choice Band I’ll likely go safety goggles and replace CC with protect

CC was for Empoleon and other steel types

But yeah I’ll change Dragonites ability

And CB it

[charred saddle]

AV Harc is also a thing

dont forget to change the rilla tera too since youre not going for seed

[chrome knot]

band harc is sex

fairy blast is so hot

[nocturne holly]

tf

band harc is god
we do not compare harc to that

[wooden igloo]

Can someone teach me how to ev train i cant understand any guide

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 908: Meowscarada

Types

Grass/Dark

Abilities

Overgrow, Protean (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

76/110/70/81/70/123

Total

530

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[molten oasis]

[feral ledge]

I think I’ll keep the items as is at this time. I adjusted Flutter Manes EV spread. I’m keeping CC on HArc because it checks Empoleon which doesn’t have many weaknesses. I also changed Dragonites ability and gave him Ice Spinner over Stomping Tantrum. I appreciate everyone’s feedback but MS Rillaboom is a beast, Band HArc is a beast, so I just need to make sure to use the right moves, pick smartly, and remember what everyone has told me and all the advice I’ve been given and the experience I have gained from battling

[nocturne holly]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2023regulatione-2003920092

gallade fucking SLAPS

[mighty stump]

Might as well pin it

[next stump]

I can help if you're still around

[dapper crag]

you can use vitamins or train vs Pokemon using Power Items.

it is best to make your EV spread head of time on pokemon showdown just to be sure of the exact numbers and keep track of them.

Good luck 🙂

[deep sparrow]

If you have the dlc Mochi is pretty easy to get to help ev train as well.

[strange fjord]

Fresh Start Mochi is so good

complete reset on all EVs

[dapper crag]

ya its good

[nocturne holly]

So I’m gonna cook with dengo and weezing
What would be good partners? I think landot/harc would pair nice

[mighty stump]

Why Dengo and Weezing

Like what's the plan

[nocturne holly]

like just use dengo to set up as IMO it doesn’t need its ability all the time
I can neutralize abilities with weezing and also burn to keep dengo on the field longer

[mighty stump]

Sure, but what does Weezing provide next to Dengo other than Wisp, cause status immunity seems more fun combined with another Mon with dedicated damage reduction say Intimidate + Wisp or Prankster Screens

Not many abilities really relevant for it

[chrome knot]

im putting that dengo to bed gn

[mighty stump]

Otherwise its easy to slap Roaring Moon and your Walance pieces on it

Since you definitely need speed control

[dapper crag]

Roaring Moon, I often see it with Weezing. looks good. Energy Booster ability works with the neutralising gaz

[tired sage]

anyone absolutely terrified about incin’s return?

[nocturne holly]

Hmmm yea I see your point

I’ve already cooked with dengo so I’ll just cook with weezing now

Are there any other speed controllers that work with weezing other than moon

[mighty stump]

Eh

Terrified is a strong word

Good mon, opens up teambuilding a little bit more due to strong role compression

[mighty stump]

Techincally Bundle/Icy Wind Mane if you wanna go that route instead

Jugulis if you want to be quirky

Lol

[dapper crag]

Iron Jugulis's moveset:

Physical Moves

Acrobatics, Assurance, Body Slam, Crunch, Dragon Tail, Dual Wingbeat, Facade, Fire Fang, Fly, Giga Impact, Iron Head, Knock Off, Lash Out, Outrage, Rock Tomb, Take Down, U-turn, Zen Headbutt

Special Moves

Air Cutter, Air Slash, Charge Beam, Dark Pulse, Dragon Breath, Dragon Pulse, Earth Power, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Flash Cannon, Focus Blast, Heat Wave, Hurricane, Hydro Pump, Hyper Beam, Hyper Voice, Snarl, Tera Blast, Tri Attack

Status Moves

Electric Terrain, Endure, Focus Energy, Protect, Rain Dance, Rest, Roar, Scary Face, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Sunny Day, Tailwind, Taunt, Work Up

Notes

A move displayed with Bold text benefits from Same-Type Attack Bonus when used by Iron Jugulis.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[nocturne holly]

This is literally just worse moon

wasn’t jugulis used like early reg b

[tired sage]

it’s gonna be everywhere… that’s what scares me

[fallen rivet]

Once i think

[fallen rivet]

I’m so excited for incin

[nocturne holly]

That’s like a lot of mons right now tho

incin will be fun

do you guys know any weezing teams

[tired sage]

it’ll be fun but also annoying

[mighty stump]

Lots of ways to punish it, especially with the Gen 9 items

Clear Am/Covert Cloak are easy

Tera Ghost also useful

Armor Tail on Farigiraf

Defiant/Competitive mons

and just overall powercreep

[tired sage]

that’s true…

too much trauma from swsh

[mighty stump]

I mean in SwSh right

Incineroar was basically a hero

Cause it kept the format in check

It answered a ton of the metagame rather than being the reason the metagame is the way it is

[tired sage]

you make a good argument…
it’s just… parting shot intimidate would kinda just… prevent boosts from happening

[dull ibex]

hi

[chrome knot]

what kind of hero

[dapper crag]

I'm building a team around Kingambit Amoonguss Iron Hands

really like how bulky they are, might add Heatran too

just all bulky Mons

[nocturne holly]

Harc or landot with weezing?

I’m thinking bout doing slaking

[dapper crag]

lol slaking weezing

[nocturne holly]

yea

weezing neutralizes truant

[dapper crag]

Slaking's moveset:

Physical Moves

Aerial Ace, Body Press, Body Slam, Brick Break, Bulldoze, Chip Away, Counter, Covet, Crush Claw, Cut, Dig, Double-Edge, Drain Punch, Dynamic Punch, Earthquake, Facade, False Swipe, Feint Attack, Fire Punch, Flail, Fling, Focus Punch, Frustration, Fury Cutter, Fury Swipes, Giga Impact, Gunk Shot, Hammer Arm, Headbutt, Heavy Slam, High Horsepower, Ice Punch, Knock Off, Lash Out, Low Kick, Low Sweep, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Metal Claw, Natural Gift, Night Slash, Outrage, Play Rough, Poison Jab, Pounce, Power-Up Punch, Punishment, Pursuit, Retaliate, Return, Reversal, Rock Slide, Rock Smash, Rock Tomb, Scratch, Secret Power, Seed Bomb, Seismic Toss, Shadow Claw, Slash, Smack Down, Stomping Tantrum, Strength, Sucker Punch, Take Down, Thief, Throat Chop, Thunder Punch, Trailblaze, Wild Charge, X-Scissor, Zen Headbutt

Special Moves

Blizzard, Chilling Water, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Focus Blast, Hidden Power, Hyper Beam, Hyper Voice, Ice Beam, Icy Wind, Incinerate, Mud Shot, Mud-Slap, Round, Shadow Ball, Shock Wave, Snore, Solar Beam, Tera Blast, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Uproar, Water Pulse

Status Moves

After You, Amnesia, Attract, Block, Bulk Up, Captivate, Confide, Curse, Double Team, Encore, Endure, Focus Energy, Helping Hand, Hone Claws, Metronome, Mimic, Protect, Quash, Rain Dance, Rest, Roar, Scary Face, Slack Off, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Sunny Day, Swagger, Taunt, Thunder Wave, Tickle, Toxic, Work Up, Yawn

Notes

A move displayed with Bold text benefits from Same-Type Attack Bonus when used by Slaking.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[dapper crag]

just lol, not seen this on ladder and it must be very hard to win through

[golden sentinel]

Some of you may have seen me blogpost about my journey to get the master rank ribbon as someone who have never done competitive before but today I want to report that I finally reached ultra ball

I know is not the end but it feels really good because loosing a rank is so demoralizing so I'm just one step away

if I lose a couple more times can I go from ultra ball to great ball again?

[crude pollen]

I think each ball rank is a hard floor and you won't be demoted

[golden sentinel]

ok thank god

[strange fjord]

Once you're in Ultra, you can't drop to Great.

[nocturne holly]

it’s not very popular but it’s a tech

prog is cooking up a tr team with weezing+slaking

[dapper crag]

good for them

I don't see it being good

Feels so clunky to force a duo that works together and oddly inconsistent ouytside of it

[nocturne holly]

It can be if you can pilot it right

it is a gimmick nonetheless

but prog is cracked so 🤷‍♂️

[ember linden]

I prefer Weezing Moon

But I don’t use it either way lol

[dapper crag]

yeah I seen them a couple of times, they do be crazy a bit lol

[ember linden]

Prog?

[dapper crag]

uses the TR god title, that's a funny way to label yourself ha ha

[ember linden]

He is like at least one of the best tr users in this server

[dapper crag]

can you be more non specific ha ha

''like at least one of the best''

[ember linden]

At least one of the best if not the best tr user in this server, the title is well deserved

Make sense?

[dapper crag]

not really, I don't know them

but if you say so

[ember linden]

Well idk how to explain it to you if that doesn’t

[dapper crag]

find it funny to use such title

[nocturne holly]

I wanna cook with weezing but don’t wanna use moon

[dapper crag]

what have they done with TR ? any tournaments ? any results ?

[ember linden]

Ask him

[dapper crag]

but you vouch for them being that good

you said title is well deserved, why is that ?

[golden sentinel]

I just beat someone using toxapek stall by stalling them out with a time out
it was such a nasty toxapek moveset but it had no attacking moves

so the moment I managed to land a taunt it was over

took me like 10 minutes to figure out they had no damaging moves though

[ember linden]

I don’t know how many placements they have made, so ofc I recommend a primary source over me, a secondary source.

@gentle delta

I can tell Prog is a good player.

[gentle delta]

The god thing is more of a joke

[ember linden]

Well you’re still a good tr player lol, which is my point

[gentle delta]

Most of the inflation to my ego is from praise from others rather than my own thinking highly of myself

Ik im addressing his distaste for the name

[ember linden]

You should think highly of yourself

[dapper crag]

I don't hate it lol

just they say you're good but can't tell on what basis, this is what it's funny

do you place high on ladder, have a good mmr on showdown, do tournaments/events

[ember linden]

I couldn’t tell you that genius

[gentle delta]

But to actually address the question of my finishes.

This is my first season, so I’ve only done two regionals. I’ve made CP from both which Im told is an achievement and a half.

121st in Pittsburgh
56th in Toronto
Undefeated in locals.

On sd when im genuinely grinding im usually top 5

[dapper crag]

be respectful vikxk pls, you're rude a whole lot

[gentle delta]

Top 10 for cp in Canada atm, regularly praised by the manager for team canada who also sends others my way for help

[ember linden]

You’re saying something I said was funny when it’s a simple concept, I’m just talking. Nothing I say is supposed to be taken in a rude way.

[dapper crag]

team canada ?

[chrome knot]

sorry im actually the best canadian rn

[dapper crag]

what is that

[gentle delta]

Feels weird coming to say here and say this shit because I actively dislike bragging

[dapper crag]

you not bragging I'm calling for it

you deserve all of this if you actually go the distance, this is amazing

[gentle delta]

Victory Road hosts a very large grassroots series called World Cup. Next to official VGC its the largest pokemon circuit

[ember linden]

I’m going off of what others say.

[gentle delta]

Ive been invited but have turned down tryouts

I also won my first ever tour going against the player generally considered the best TR player in Canada

He jokes that im now his sleep paralysis demon

[dapper crag]

ok ok

[chrome knot]

let ur nuts hang prog

[gentle delta]

Again, hate bragging. You asked

[dapper crag]

this is nice, might interview you in february for game theory ground work for my master's thesis if I may

[gentle delta]

By all means sure

[ember linden]

Interesting lol

[dapper crag]

I'm building up a list of possible players, and TR is a specific playstyle not much players tend to use

it doesn't get good results in most tournaments, you might know why (also might be sort of a goal)

[gentle delta]

Scrolled up to see why I was tagged

But tbh the weezing team is def a meme

For content not every team can be some fire top 8 team. So I try to engage in a mix of serious and not serious

Because some players will actively have more fun losing with something funny than winning with the same shit as everyone else

Teams like the Slaking one and Dragalge one are for them

[dapper crag]

ok nice, you always play TR i assume ?

[gentle delta]

Like, 95%

[dapper crag]

that'll do

[gentle delta]

But worlds is the goal so I adapt when absolutely necessary

[dapper crag]

has TR ever won Worlds to your memory ?

[gentle delta]

First tour without TR on the team at all was last week. Came 5th did fine. But I like my tr

It did not until some Canadian won in 2024

[dapper crag]

I know it was strong on Mimikyu pre-nerf

[gentle delta]

Tbh the nerf changed little

Mimi was still good in Gen 8

And I plan to use it in gs cup

[dapper crag]

didn't mean about power scale, but mimikyu gen 7 being strong TR with good sweepers/metagame favoring it

I saw some high placements from TR centric teams around that time

but I've not done much research past top cuts

can't speak to these metagames myself since I'm an outsider

[wooden igloo]

Guys for anybody who was here before, just watched a vid on EVs, IVs and natures and FINALLY i understand, thx for everyone who recommended vids!

[ember linden]

W

[dapper crag]

nice

[gentle delta]

Gen 7 Mimi was also very different because of things like megas, z crystals, and a lack of other new mechanics that hurt mimi

[nocturne holly]

Alr so I have moon, harc, water pon, weezing
What last 2 mon?

[dapper crag]

Iron Hands doesn't care about its ability

so does Flutter Mane

not original I know

[nocturne holly]

I don’t wanna copy wolfes team

[dapper crag]

not good enough to contribute out of the box ideas

maybe go with slaking ?

[nocturne holly]

I was also thinking of slaking

I also have moon for tw

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 289: Slaking

Type

Normal

Abilities

Truant

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

150/160/100/95/65/100

Total

670

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[nocturne holly]

he’s actually fairly fast bro

what the fuck
Yo this thing actually slaps with weezing

Ima try it

[dapper crag]

Slaking is just a slacker, don't piss it off

[karmic temple]

You can also use grafaiai doodle which is fun 🤭

[nocturne holly]

slaking doesn’t have good moves
Normal typing 😭

[dapper crag]

high horsepower body slam sucker punch don't look too bad

even low kick for heatran/kingambit would be potent

could be AV Slaking

[nocturne holly]

does weezing need any spe investment? first thought is to outspeed 205s in tw
which it does without any investment

[next stump]

outspeeding stuff like mid speed dragonite is nice

but it sacrifices bulk

[karmic temple]

Speaking of moon what do we like as our build 🤭

[molten oasis]

Acro knock off ddance or acro/breaking swipe knock off and tw

[dapper crag]

one I build is Protect Acrobatics Knock Off Tailwind with Energy Booster, does a lot of things

[chrome knot]

breaking swipe knock off tw protect w/ tera poison is a good one

[golden sentinel]

how many wins does it take to go from ultra to master rank

[dapper crag]

enough, normally a win streak of 3 will do it, might be 4

you could win 10 games and lose 13, not gonna be enough in some order and would work in another order

[golden sentinel]

from scratch is 4 right

[dapper crag]

think so

[golden sentinel]

ok

im 2 wins away of master rank but been getting my ass kicked all day

the mons are different on ultraball tier

[dapper crag]

yeah things get spicier as you get closer

[crude pollen]

https://pokepast.es/be92c0a943467857
Which looks like a better fit, waterpon or water shifu?

[dapper crag]

Waterpon

[crude pollen]

Was leaning towards her but uncertain

[charred saddle]

why bug tera? grass tera removes the rock weakness typing

[crude pollen]

Bug resists fighting and still removes the water weakness to make water shifu slightly less annoying

Plus too lazy to get another Heatran and another team has him+Gastro so makes Shifu have to go through gastro to hit him first

[ember linden]

I run breaking swipe, knock off, tailwind, and protect w/ tera poison 36/116/100/0/4/252 jolly

[karmic temple]

With so many flying and rock threats in the meta bug Tera will not be a good choice

[ember linden]

Yeah bug tera is not it

[dapper crag]

I can see bug on CTS ladder, if you know how to play it, it can be a funny thing

[ember linden]

Grass or Fairy is the better option, bug used to be alright early reg-d tho

Fairy is the best usually but it varies by team

[dapper crag]

Bug resists Fighting + Ground

can be pretty decent as a surprise tera, I see the line of play

if they cover you going for grass tera with a flying move, bug yields same result

[ember linden]

Surprises are not worth it a lot of the time it wouldn’t give you all that much value

[dapper crag]

Surprises you can leverage to win games are hella worth

You use the rational tera expectation to your advantage, it's somewhat risky, but risk taking is different on each player

[ember linden]

Mmm

[chrome knot]

also teaches you nothing

[dapper crag]

[Latest Gen] Slaking

Fake Out:

• Slaking does not learn Fake Out in Generation 9

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[nocturne holly]

damn

that could’ve been hands replacementish on weezing balance

[ember linden]

Teaches you how to surprise someone with some uncommon thing over teaching you how to play into the good thing.

Bug tera’s value back then was just tera blasting the opposing grass tera heatran.

[dapper crag]

bug still switches 2 weaknesses in resistances

weakness profile is covering fire and leaves you weak to flying rock, which you resist prior

not like you couldn't use it to your advantage in the right board state

[ember linden]

But you could instead just be neutral to most things

You don’t resist rock I believe

[dapper crag]

same amount of weaknesses on tera bug/fairy

[ember linden]

Super effective to fire, steel resists, that should be neutral

[ember linden]

Fairy is weak to uncommon types in the format, while bug is weak to more common types : )

[gentle delta]

Fairy's resists are far more crucial than Bugs in addition to having an immunity

[ember linden]

Yup

[gentle delta]

Bug tera was a thing people fiddled around with before Fairy took off and then was never touched again.

Bug tera is only worthwhile on mons who want to utiliize bug damage while also gaining those resistances.

Bug Iron Thorns comes to mind

but hasnt been viable since Reg B

[ember linden]

Opposing heatran can flash cannon your fairy tera heatran but that’s just the price you pay.

[gentle delta]

gaining a fire weakness when flash fire is disabled or ignored, which is common atm, is also not great

[karmic temple]

Me with my grass heatran bc I’m too lazy to farm fairy shards

[dapper crag]

grass is good

[ember linden]

Tera blast heatran also js went down in usage

[nocturne holly]

Alr so I have weezing, moon, wellspring, slaking, and harc. What could be 6th?
Also anyone have sd wellspring spread or acro tw moon spread?

[ember linden]

My bulky ogerpon spread is 236/140/36/0/92/4 careful

[dapper crag]

Tera Blast is used on AV set, but it's often always Hands

[nocturne holly]

thxxx

[gentle crag]

.begulajr. has given 1 Gen Rep to vikxk

[smoky hawk]

What attacks does it live?

[nocturne holly]

Yea forgot to ask what’s it evd for?

[bold geode]

Tera Fairy Heatran better tbh

Honestly imo, Tera Bug was only a thing on it cuz people didn't test Fairy yet

[dapper crag]

you see all sort of stuff on ladder

I've heard stories of stuff working high ladder by japanese players and it got me very interested in seeing surprising stuff used

[bold geode]

Yeah
Full Eeveelutions team won a GC
But I just say meta stuff lol

[dapper crag]

wow

[molten oasis]

I’ll say it once and I’ll say it again, hands or mane

[chrome knot]

Tera Fairy Hisuian Arcanine

[nocturne holly]

av is going on slaking

[molten oasis]

Try clesr amulet hands

Hands doesn’t ONLY have to run av

[nocturne holly]

yea but it’s the best

[molten oasis]

Agreed

[nocturne holly]

I don’t like other items on hands

[molten oasis]

Ok then specs mane is your other option

Or maybe toedscruel

[keen karma]

im making a team for that on tuesday

[molten oasis]

Nice

I’m just, kinda done with the reg lol

I have no motivation to play

[keen karma]

no you see what i mean

it just feels so boring

[molten oasis]

Once you do everything you want to yea

Literally I cooked the kingbundle team (thanks for quaging it -insert name here-) and now I’m done lol

[finite vine]

I wanted to make a unique competitive team for Christmas with Delibird and went totally wrong. This thing just wasn’t made for competitive AT ALL

[tired sage]

it’s made for comp singles…
not doubles

[keen karma]

i feel you

now you understand me

[next stump]

couldn't find an opponent 3 times in a row lol, the climb stops here tonight

trying to hit rank 1 this season

[thick geyser]

What the difference between dread plate and dark glasses

[next stump]

same item

[dapper crag]

Item: Black Glasses

Holder's Dark-type attacks have 1.2x power.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

Item: Dread Plate

Holder's Dark-type attacks have 1.2x power. Judgment is Dark type.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[next stump]

well, besides the Judgment part that isn’t relevant for competitive

[molten oasis]

Fr

[molten oasis]

You’ll get there

[next stump]

it’s just a matter of not getting cheesed hahaha

all of my losses are to super random sets

[keen karma]

3 different dozo teams in a row 😂

[next stump]

LOL at least 2 of my 5 losses are Dozo

[molten oasis]

Average ladder experience

[keen karma]

drago dyk if shifu works on weezing balance

[molten oasis]

The fear of not getting cheesed is so real

[keen karma]

i honestly dont know mons that work on it

[next stump]

some people probably think i’m the cheeser

[molten oasis]

Unseen fist doesn’t work with gas on

[molten oasis]

What is the team?

[keen karma]

im aware

[molten oasis]

It can work yes

[keen karma]

but it still does a shit ton of damage

maybe ability shield

[molten oasis]

Don’t

You can easily play around unseen fist with weezing

Similar to intimidate

[next stump]

Slightly outdated screenshot

• Heatran now has Life Orb
• Farigarif now has Throat Spray and Hyper Voice instead of Dazzling Gleam
• Dragonite now has Aerial Ace instead of Aqua Jet

[molten oasis]

I see why people would find you cheesy lol

Very fun team tho

[next stump]

yeah lol throat spray farigarif has genuinely been the MVP of so many games

[molten oasis]

For sure

I remember reg c throat spray was relatively common

[next stump]

I think it’s between rocky helmet, an HP berry, or throat spray

[keen karma]

i wanna make an solo av dnite team

[next stump]

and it just depends what you want out of it

[molten oasis]

Now it’s lots of goggles/sitrus/helm

Yea

[next stump]

ah true goggles is good too

I’ve seen Goggles with Uproar to hard counter Amoonguss

[molten oasis]

With amoonguss comin back it makes sense

[next stump]

but that’s super niche, I think the team handles Amoonguss fine

[dapper crag]

Move: Uproar

The user spends three turns locked into this move. This move targets an opponent at random on each turn. On the first of the three turns, all sleeping active Pokemon wake up. During the three turns, no active Pokemon can fall asleep by any means, and Pokemon switched in during the effect do not wake up. If the user is prevented from moving or the attack is not successful against the target during one of the turns, the effect ends.

Type

Normal

Category

Special

Power

90

Accuracy

100

PP (max)

10 (16)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Authentic

Bypasses substitute.

Contact

Does not make contact.

Sound

Does not affect Soundproof.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[molten oasis]

Ah it wakes shit up

[next stump]

yeah it can be really really nice

but the random targeting and being locked into it turns me off from it

[molten oasis]

I feel like you get the same effect from goggles cress with lunar bless

[ember linden]

Correction 228/140/36/092/12 careful

[ember linden]

It lives tera dark max attack wicked blow, cc from urshi, chi-yu heat wave, tera fairy max sp.atk choice moonblast from flutter, heatran heatwave, crash from pao, espeed from tera normal choice band dnite

[molten oasis]

https://twitter.com/vgccorner/status/1723788553857974368?s=20

@ember linden

THIS is the god spread waterpon

[chrome knot]

my balls itch

[chrome knot]

WAIT WTFI S THIS !!!!!!!!!!!

[molten oasis]

Ik it’s crazy

[chrome knot]

why you ask for it if you weren't the one who needed it!!

[molten oasis]

Well I needed it to prove a point

He thinks he has the god spread

It’s a good spread

But this one is better

[tired sage]

what the hecccc

[molten oasis]

It’s the goated waterpon spread

[chrome knot]

that he had to ask politely for

[short nebula]

hey guys what is a goof counter for husian arcanine

[dapper crag]

Iron Hands

[short nebula]

been playing this team from the latest cybertron vid but i am having alot of trouble against arcanine

https://pokepast.es/74cbfafa2c54159b

any idea how i can counter it using this team?

[chrome knot]

@gentle delta this a you team

[dapper crag]

no

this was posted from someone else on the cybertronvgc channel, tried it myself a bit and it's stupidly strong

[chrome knot]

i WILL be pinging someone with all the knowledge of trick room yes

stop talking to me pls

[dapper crag]

they already discussed that me

you missed it, but I posted it and they said it wasn't their mix. you can directly link it to the owner of the team, BravadoVGC from the paste.

[dull ibex]

well tbf not every tr team is prog

[dapper crag]

calm down will ya, I'm just giving you the proper information

[chrome knot]

i know where its from

but if someone can explain a trick room team is going to be prog lmfao

[dull ibex]

but you implied prog made, not that prog could explain it

[dapper crag]

this one is fairly easy to get

fast mode through drago + lilligant, tr mode with the rest

psyspam usual suspects

[dull ibex]

torkoal lili is also a fast mode

[dapper crag]

ya if you mention lilligant it comes with sun support always, but it's a given to me

[short nebula]

what is 'prog'?

[dull ibex]

Progatog he is the resident tr expert

[chrome knot]

didnt but k

[dull ibex]

"this a you team" implies he made it

[chrome knot]

no it doesnt

[dull ibex]

you can say it doesn't but yes it does

[dapper crag]

it kinda does

[chrome knot]

it implies he can explain the team bc its what hes familiar with💀

[dull ibex]

if someone pings and goes hey red is this a you team? I would respond sorry didnt make it

man I haven't made a team in a while tbh

this whole banter is wholely unnecessary anyways and we should all move on

[chrome knot]

@bold geode ayo come look

[dull ibex]

https://pokepast.es/74cbfafa2c54159b this one prog

[short nebula]

this one^

[dull ibex]

if that was sarcasm im sorry

[short nebula]

feel kinda bad now hahha starting this weird banter

[dull ibex]

comp chat is just like this

[dapper crag]

don't, pouty girl played dumb when we actually were answering them properly

this is a very good team

[dull ibex]

why are we still jabbing at people

[dapper crag]

super easy to pilot and gives insane fast games

[short nebula]

yea it is!!

just have some trouble against arcanine thats all

just wanna know how i can pilot it better

[chrome knot]

Sorry, i will not redirect to someone smart who can explain said team.

[dull ibex]

we could also like leave pouty girl alone

a mistake in wording was made and I explained it

we really do not need to get hostile

[dapper crag]

the way you answered ray was uncalled for ima just say this, they were trying to be helpful and you barked at them

[gentle delta]

Tbh when I saw the ping I DID read it as “this is your cup of tea”

[dull ibex]

oh did you?

ok my bad pouty im wrong here

[gentle delta]

100%

Just read through all the messages

[dull ibex]

hmmm okay

[chrome knot]

https://tenor.com/view/roasted-spongebob-coffin-gif-5703731

[dull ibex]

People should ping me with Hyper Offense teams

I need ideas

[gentle delta]

Bobbys Toronto team

[dull ibex]

the harc one?

[dapper crag]

you don't like the new kingambit/amoonguss new strong duo that everyone seems to be talking about ?

[dull ibex]

I think I copied that team for a bit

listen man balance is not me

im already bad I dont need a team I can't pilot well

[dapper crag]

you don't talk like someone who's half bad

you just like downgrading yourself for reasons when you're super interested in the game

[dull ibex]

I don't like thinking im awful

I just kinda do

[dapper crag]

come on, have some love for yourself

[dull ibex]

🤷‍♂️

Like i've said before I hold myself to an insanely high standard and I dont meet it

progatog what archetypes does tr generally struggle against?

[bold geode]

Bruh I'm just tryna watch YouTube lmao

[chrome knot]

and now you witness

:D

[bold geode]

Idiocity

[chrome knot]

yeah that

[bold geode]

Is what I witness

[chrome knot]

yes ma’am

what you watchin monke

[bold geode]

Bullshit

I did watch two newest episodes of Dr Stone on Crunchy though

But I go to set my alarm in case I fall asleep and I come back to that shit

[bold geode]

Also is it Hisuian Arcanine you're having a problem with?

[chrome knot]

i watched kon today or like a bit of it till prog was gamin

[bold geode]

That the funny looking one?

[chrome knot]

the bed gif we send

[bold geode]

Pog

But yeah
Can we calm shit down
What Emmie did was not wrong at all

[dapper crag]

pouty should drop that mentality

[bold geode]

Look in a mirror buddy

Laugh all you want, but it's true

[dapper crag]

wtf

they need an easy team to be explined ot them when cybertronvgc sweeps the floor with it and they (prog) previously discussed it in here...

bark at ray who tryna help

[bold geode]

Well you do realize Cybertron has been doing it for HOW LONG
And Emmie or the other person is new
That's like if I pick up Wolfes Weezing team
You expect me to pilot it LIKE WOLFE

And I'm sorry but Ray and help don't mix

[dapper crag]

can you guys drop it pls

there was a misunderstanding, no need to fight over it

I can help that being said, please be respectful

[dull haven]

Hey, chill out. It's okay if someone needs something explained to them, everyone learns at a different pace. Just drop it and move on please

[short nebula]

Yupp

Have a feeling I am playing the team wrong when I am against it

[bold geode]

So two moves should help
First off, if you get TR up especially, Earth Power from Torkoal can probably OHKO

[chrome knot]

mochi I saved myself 3203e204hours by using a cute irl sheet maker

[bold geode]

And I believe same can be said for Regidrago, although Dragon Energy at full HP should probably do the trick unless it tera fairy
And I BELIEVE it should outspeed most Harc? Unless TW is up or there's speed drops on your side

Those are the immediate counters I see

[tired sage]

extreme speed i feel like would lower dragon energy’s base power if it does go through into drago?
idk how much it would do with a banded harcanine tho

[bold geode]

Although @gentle delta if you're still around, I'd like you to give a second opinion as TR is your expertise and I know you've looked at this team before

[keen karma]

The bravado team is very fun to play

Lilikoal regidrago

Armadd

Iirc right?

[short nebula]

ok so for example what would you lead into a Harc and thornadus

[bold geode]

Oooooooooooooooh good question

[short nebula]

i can set up TR

but prolly 1 of my mons will die

so sorry i just started playing comp like 24 hrs ago hahah

so my qns may be dumb hahhaha

[tired sage]

it’s okay we all start somewhere

[keen karma]

Show team

[bold geode]

Tbh sometimes sacrifice is needed
Although Ursaluna could work too, since if you go tera Ghost to miss the Espeed, you can probably live its other attacks and then kill it with a Ground move

[short nebula]

its this one^^

[bold geode]

https://pokepast.es/74cbfafa2c54159b
Moving down here

Also 24 hours and you know how to Pokepaste, good job lol

[keen karma]

I would say you got armadd lead

[short nebula]

oh no thats from the youtube vid hahah

[bold geode]

Or at least send pasted

[cyan smelt]

lilligant could kill it with CC

unless it goes tera fairy

[short nebula]

armadd?

[keen karma]

Armarouge indeedee

[charred saddle]

indeedee armarouge

[tired sage]

i would lead ursa and something else…
or perhaps armadee?.
lilikoal could work but you risk lili dying next turn so…

[short nebula]

ahhh i see

[bold geode]

Yeah well you got people here who play for a month and send game screenshots, which don't help worth shit
But then you send link it's like thank God there's hope

[gentle crag]

dollarmonke has given 1 Gen Rep to thebroda.

[short nebula]

ye i did lilikoal a few times didnt work so well

[charred saddle]

honestly. the risk im willing to take on Harc torn is sleep powder lilligant

[cyan smelt]

then torn rain dances and you're screwed

[short nebula]

oh i did wwin a game coz of sleep powder

[bold geode]

Armadee ain't a bad lead, could Wide Guard to miss Rock Slide
I think Ursaluna + Indeedee is also just good
Then with Psychic Terrain, you don't have to worry as much about Espeed unless Rillaboom is in the back

[short nebula]

but its not consistent...

[charred saddle]

itll always live t1

sash

[tired sage]

armadee would be ideal cause it prevents Espeed
but… who knows…

[charred saddle]

if it raindances, sash. if not itll outspeed

even TW harc doesnt outspeed lili in sun

[short nebula]

how does the turn order work

[charred saddle]

from speed

[bold geode]

Yeah final say on my end tbh
Harc and Torn lead
You lead Ursa and Indeedee

[short nebula]

if lets say the opp has rilla and i have indeedee

[charred saddle]

and priority

[short nebula]

what stays on the field?

[charred saddle]

if indeedee is slower than rilla, grassy terrain first, then psychic terrain overrides the grassy terrain

[crude pollen]

Whoever is slower