competitive_discussion

[rustic mountain]

also i never said that

give me all the meta no flavor

[mighty stump]

My standard for good also differs 💀

[keen karma]

wow that's harsh

[dull ibex]

Wow Toxic Tofu /j

[mighty stump]

Boy if that's harsh

Idk what I regularly am

[keen karma]

harsh

[mighty stump]

Understatement

[rustic mountain]

i wanna ladder w/ the tangs rain team, seems like a fun team

[dull ibex]

A giant dick sometimes 🙂

[rustic mountain]

think i have em all shiny too

[mighty stump]

Thats how you get the girls Red

Pokemon elo and giant dick

[keen karma]

yeah its unfortunate some people just arent nice

[dull ibex]

True but I wouldn't know

[keen karma]

just how the cookie crumbles

[mighty stump]

Frfr

[dull ibex]

Tofu is quite kind tbh

But not here

[mighty stump]

As if

[rustic mountain]

isnt there that dude on some show sayin he was a pokepro and he had like 1100 elo in randbats

[mighty stump]

HAHAHA THAT THREAD WAS SO FUNNY

[keen karma]

who is tofu

[rustic mountain]

haha

[dull ibex]

A better player then half of us

[rustic mountain]

some1 made an alt w/ their name for reg e and got like top 5

[mighty stump]

Man said he was a pokepro and got slandered on VGCtwt

It was so kekw

[dull ibex]

👀

Tea?

[mighty stump]

It was ages ago

Someone on like Love is Blind mentioned they play as a pokepro

And his highest elo is like 1100s on randbats

[keen karma]

thats pretty good

[mighty stump]

so he got clowned on super hard

[rustic mountain]

"ages ago" 2 months ago at most

[dull ibex]

HAHAHAHAHA

[mighty stump]

2 months is ages ago tree damn

[dull ibex]

We found him /j

[rustic mountain]

[mighty stump]

ur such a CONTRARIAN

GOD

[dull ibex]

SAYS THE CONTRARIAN

[mighty stump]

SINCE WHEN AM I THE CONTRARIAN

[dull ibex]

[keen karma]

who is a contrarian

[dull ibex]

Me

[mighty stump]

ANYTHING RELATING TO GOOD GAMEPLAY SEEMS CONTRARY TO YOU RED

CHOP CHOP BUCKET BOY COOK MY NUGGETS

[dull ibex]

Listen that sleep powder paid off

[rustic mountain]

who r u joeux9?

[mighty stump]

JoeVX10 actually

[rustic mountain]

hahaha

[next stump]

swiss round 4 finallyyyyy going now

thank god

[rustic mountain]

joe wen venu comes back in dlc:

[mighty stump]

The tera blast ice Regieleki

[dull ibex]

Chop your giant dick off idiot

[mighty stump]

Venu was so carried by dmax istc

[rustic mountain]

i mean zard faded to irrelevancy

[mighty stump]

Carried by dmax moment

[dull ibex]

Um actually

[rustic mountain]

but i do think venu offers more support/utility

[dull ibex]

Zard is my mvp I got to masterball with it

[rustic mountain]

u can get to mball w/ anything

[mighty stump]

time to miss Sleep Powder bucko

[dull ibex]

That's the joke

[rustic mountain]

[mighty stump]

mfw Flutter Mane is stil faster than Venu in Sun

[rustic mountain]

i never said id run it

flutter moment

[next stump]

HAHAHA THE DC

[mighty stump]

NO WAY

LOL

[next stump]

LAIC is going to be riddled with network issues

[rustic mountain]

dude wen iron hands finally gets to use its ability

[mellow barn]

https://pokepast.es/d6c83913ee39536a
I don't know what to add as final pokemon

[next stump]

soooo funny hahaha

[mighty stump]

Intimidates
Gets Def Boost

Ruh Roh

[rustic mountain]

[dull ibex]

more bulk

[smoky hawk]

Almost 1.5hrs between rounds. Maybe it was due to lunch. Hopefully

[dull ibex]

flinches are cringe

[keen karma]

i mean i can somewhat understand that you seem to have quite differing opins from alot of ppl

[dull ibex]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2023regulatione-1992844231

[keen karma]

red you wanna go a bo3

its been a while

[dull ibex]

not really

[mighty stump]

A lot of people's opinions tend to be misguided, or biased towards incomplete information.

[keen karma]

ok :(

[dull ibex]

im not playing vgc again til a vc happens

[mighty stump]

Plus, if you're understanding me as a contrarian that's just blatant misunderstanding of me lmao

[keen karma]

i was trying to be ironic

[dull ibex]

tone inidicators

[mighty stump]

The irony is missed

[bold geode]

Did it disconnect on stream?

[keen karma]

its very hard to do that red through text

[dull ibex]

no its not

[mellow barn]

I used wrong power item on Landorus

[dull ibex]

/j, /s

[mighty stump]

Anyways, this is a very good point to cue returning to going on break

Ta

[bold geode]

Also idk if he's on strike or if he knows his job now

[dull ibex]

see ya tofu

[bold geode]

Later Tofu

[keen karma]

cya wood

[mighty stump]

Take care everyone

[mellow barn]

I don't wanna use Flutter Mane, but I got no other SP ATK option for my team

[bold geode]

You take care 🫵👁️👁️

[strange juniper]

damn going to a BO1 after a DC??

[mellow barn]

But landorus already has scarf

[strange juniper]

and they overruled it now? what are they on

[keen karma]

guys its regieleki

[keen karma]

u got time for a friendly?

[bold geode]

Working

[keen karma]

later then ig

[bold geode]

I'm not even watching stream and judging by what I'm seeing, I guess that might be for the best huh

[strange juniper]

they decided to follow the proper rules in the end. game 1 tie, if game 2 and 3 go both ways, it goes to sudden death

[bold geode]

Man
Literally people who hold Limitless tournaments do better at these problems

[strange juniper]

in the middle of game 1 they announced that this was going to be treated as game 3 because the first game disconnected

[bold geode]

C'mon

Like
You think they'd figure out better ways by now

[placid thorn]

They truly suck at tourneis

[next stump]

it blows my mind that pokémon has existed for 20+ years

with 10+ years of official VGC tournaments

and there is no reconnect feature

every other online game you can reconnect

[bold geode]

Like I know "RNG can come into play" but turning into BO1 kinda invalidates shit

[placid thorn]

It's a pisstake innit

[keen karma]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2023regulatione-1992868042 HOLY I COOKED

got to this elo in an hour

[placid thorn]

Imagine not top cutting or whatever cuz of that shit

[keen karma]

fortnite:

you dont know how many times i crashed on that fucking game and lost out on points

[bold geode]

Bruh I was cracked in Fortnite last night

[bold geode]

Also I remember in Worlds where people lost cuz of disconnect

[dull ibex]

cracked your controller from being bad

[bold geode]

No

[dull ibex]

ok boomer

[bold geode]

[next stump]

round 5 starting soon

two incredibly standard teams lol

[bold geode]

What looking at

[rustic mountain]

small indie company

[bold geode]

[rustic mountain]

dude that mustve sucked for the players. u r told the 1 game is g3 then after they r like nah jk play a full set

[strange juniper]

yeah

[rustic mountain]

seems like they r having mad issues

team preview was wrong for r5 they somehow had chien pao and gholdengo swapped

[strange juniper]

now this game has no mons on the live view as well

[placid thorn]

That was mental fam

I'd be fuming to be fair

[bold geode]

Same

[gentle delta]

@cerulean arrow just woke up and saw Tofus ping but I understand you need Trick Room advice from me?

If thats the case toss me a dm because I dont check this chat often unless I’m pinged but I’d be happy to help. Just dont have time to read the chat atm

[tawny wyvern]

Whats a meta trick room setter currently?

[next stump]

Indeedee, Armarouge, Sinistcha, Cresselia, Farigarif are the main ones IMO

some fringe setters like Oranguru exist, as well as trick room flutter mane

Dusclops as well but not really high usage

[tawny wyvern]

Kk thanks

[gentle delta]

Indeedee, Armarouge, Sinistcha, Dusclops, Gallade in that order

Farig is useful but only on specific teams and is not splashable (as a hard tr setter)

Nothing else is viable atm save for Cress but im not a fan of her rn

Clops is good only with Blood Moon on the team but they go together incredibly well

Oh Chandelure is decent too

[chrome knot]

i dont like that teams feature 88 tr setters that was the worst jump scare ever

[gentle delta]

On hard tr teams 2-4 is standard

[chrome knot]

goober

[gentle delta]

Just wait until we allowed restricted Pokémon and I have six setters

[chrome knot]

not until i bring a mon whos only purpose is to occasionally turn off trick room

[bold geode]

Cress mid
The allegations are actually kinda valid

[mellow barn]

May I introduce Taunt?

[chrome knot]

i aint using 92 taunt mons

i have taunt didnt bring it

[bold geode]

Taunt is fucking useless against Prog

[chrome knot]

yes

[mellow barn]

Prog?

[gentle delta]

Im 9 chess move ahead of anti tr tech

[chrome knot]

he also made me look like a dummy bc i forgor psychic terrain

[bold geode]

I have a strategy for beating Prog you wanna hear it?

[chrome knot]

rillaboom

[bold geode]

My strategy for beating Prog

Pray 🙏

[mellow barn]

Ah...

[chrome knot]

he let me win

[mellow barn]

https://tenor.com/view/pok-rillaboom-galar-grookey-gif-19963718

[gentle delta]

I swer I didn’t

[chrome knot]

it feels too not real

to randomly whip up a 2-0 vs like an extremely good player as

a not so good player

[bold geode]

I just fall asleep in tournaments with Hard TR that's all I do

[gentle delta]

It was a good match for you and I mispredicted you Earned the W

[mellow barn]

I might need a test partner after I have build my new team 🤔

[chrome knot]

[mellow barn]

https://pokepast.es/d6c83913ee39536a
I just need a sixth pokemon

[gentle delta]

Heat

[chrome knot]

pao

heatran stinks

h arc is the cutest fire type

just ignore the 4x ground weakness

[mellow barn]

Oh... Pao has Sucker Punch...

[chrome knot]

whys this a surprise

[mellow barn]

Just thinking the possible plays I could make

But I need SP attacker, all my team is filled with physical

[gentle delta]

With you I can genuinely never tell if you mean its a bad mon or your frilly ass just thinks its ugly lol

[chrome knot]

ugly

[gentle delta]

Hence Heatran

Good glue special attacking mon

[chrome knot]

heatran good i just hate certain mons bc ugly

[gentle delta]

Feel

[mellow barn]

True, other option might be Flutter Mane. But that is the most expected

[chrome knot]

heatran

you have no fire type

[gentle delta]

Flutter bad here

[mellow barn]

There is also the fire fish

[gentle delta]

Also bad here

Heres a way to look at it I like

Dont justify why NOT to bring a mon unless you absolutely have to

But any mon you consider needs an elevator pitch of why

Like why do you want Flutter, why do you want Chi

I suggest Heatran because it rounds out both your offensive and defensive thpes

[mellow barn]

[gentle delta]

And fits very snugly on aggro balance teams like this one

[mellow barn]

Main idea for the team. Roaring Moon Tailwind. Go from there

[chrome knot]

moon is just

ok and we ice spinning

it just dies to too much

[mellow barn]

So bulk?

[chrome knot]

your set rn is made of glass

[mellow barn]

I just took what Pikalytics said about EVs

[fast plume]

Hi, do frisk ability only activate when an enemy pokemon join in battle or every turns?

[gentle delta]

Literally never do this

[gentle delta]

Frisk is bad

But to answer your question its when the mon with Frisk enters

[mellow barn]

Any suggestion where I can check preferable EVs?

[gentle delta]

You cant just slap evs on a team unless its a mon like Kingambit that you can go 252/252

You need to know what your evs are for

By figuring out what threatens you and calcing to either survive their hits or to make sure you nab the ko

By using random evs you’ll never know what you can safely do

[mellow barn]

So how would you start checking EV's? Any site to check them?

[gentle delta]

There are damage calculator sites where you can adjust stats between two mons to see what moves will do what

So say you wanna live Wicked Blow from Urshifu w/ Life Orb

You plug in the Urshifu (Adamant, 252 att) and your mon. And raise hp or defence til it shows that it cant get the ohko

[molten oasis]

Prog the tr god nice

[gentle delta]

Ive decided to stop being humble when I found out people at my locals got paid coaching to beat me (and still lost)

[mellow barn]

You could say, they wasted their money

[gentle delta]

Not at all

They’re excellent players but people dont play TR like me

[molten oasis]

Lol

[gentle delta]

Im impervious to anti tr hate unless its the kind that dedicates an entire team and therefore the team sucks against other stuff

[mighty stump]

Oh good

You're here

[molten oasis]

You’re here too

[mighty stump]

The bat signal worked

[molten oasis]

Lol

[mighty stump]

Not for long bucko

[molten oasis]

You’re going back on break?

[mighty stump]

Of course

Its doing wonders for my patience

[molten oasis]

That’s good

I might go on break for the reg, kinda did everything i wanted to tbh

[nocturne holly]

I haven’t

I think ima take a few days break

Wait reg f starts January right

this team is eating me alive

All I’m seeing is tr and armadeedee

My worst mus

And sunroom

[fast plume]

@gentle delta oh ok, so even first turn as lead?

And, if i swap and put it again in battle he do it again?

[mellow barn]

Rank 9!

[bold geode]

Not me
Gotta make blog content

[bold geode]

Also if you're still here, thx you made me realize something obvious lol

[gentle crag]

dollarmonke has given 1 Gen Rep to woodtofu

[dull ibex]

Rep farming SMH

[mellow barn]

Ogerpon (Water) Horn Leech or Power Whip?

[nocturne holly]

lemme see the set

Horn leech if like sd or smth like that

I don’t see the use of power while over wood hammer tho

[dapper crag]

Move: Power Whip

No additional effect.

Type

Grass

Category

Physical

Power

120

Accuracy

85

PP (max)

10 (16)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Makes contact.

SableyeBot version 4.24.3

[nocturne holly]

Yea if you want the extra damage imo just go for wood hammer

[mellow barn]

https://pokepast.es/647841bfe1ae2056
Same as this but only difference is Tornadus with Sitrus Berry and Ghost Tera

[nocturne holly]

Yea horn leech imo with follow me

[mellow barn]

So change Power Whip to Horn Leech?

[nocturne holly]

Yea

[mellow barn]

[nocturne holly]

Is that James Baek team?

[mellow barn]

Yeah

[rustic mountain]

only a mad man runs power whip like baek

[nocturne holly]

I mean he probably used power whip for a reason

[mellow barn]

From Peoria Regional

[rustic mountain]

ofc he did

[nocturne holly]

I didn’t watch the regional

[nocturne holly]

and it worked

[rustic mountain]

hes also an extremely good player

prolly jus gave him better damage rolls into specific mons

[nocturne holly]

I didn’t watch the regional so maybe someone who did would have more insight as to why he used whip
But imo in general horn leech/wood hammer over whip @mellow barn

[nocturne holly]

It does the same amount of damage as wood hammer

[rustic mountain]

w/o the recoil tho

[mellow barn]

[nocturne holly]

ig it was cause of follow me
Didn’t want the recoil

[mellow barn]

Most likely to any mirror fights or Urshifu

[rustic mountain]

yea jus trading accuracy for no recoil

[mellow barn]

Speaking of James gonna play the next match 👀

BRAMBELGHAST!!??

[placid thorn]

Pretty much this

One of my mates keeps putting random evs cuz he can't be bothere to run the calcs😆

[chrome knot]

anyone got baby names for rillaboom

[nocturne holly]

grookey

Thwackey when it’s a teen

[chrome knot]

what

[nocturne holly]

🫠

[gentle delta]

What is the question? This sentence makes no sense

[gentle delta]

Cornerstone should only use Whip over Hammer but only Cornerstone

[nocturne holly]

why

[gentle delta]

Look at Cornerstone and its not difficult to aee

[nocturne holly]

Sturdy?

Oh yea

it breaks sturdy

[gentle delta]

Exactly

Cornerstone has mid typing, Sturdy is the only reason to run it

If you’re on Hammer then its a waste

But then again Cornerstones best use is also just taking two hits and dying

[next stump]

thank god james baek won

[nocturne holly]

LAIC?

[next stump]

yea

[bold geode]

Huh

[bold geode]

George

From Curious George

[dapper crag]

Power Whip is fine on Wellspring if you go the sweeper route

[gentle delta]

Not really, the accuracy drop is not worth it

[bold geode]

Horn Leech or Hammer kinda better

[dapper crag]

It's working

[gentle delta]

Doesnt mean its optimal

Moves that have lower accuracy than other options need a reason to be used

[dapper crag]

Staying on the field through recoil on specific calcs if optimal if you want to sweep

[gentle delta]

“No recoil” is not a good reason

[dapper crag]

If you end up dying from recoil, there goes your sweeper

[bold geode]

A food reason?

[gentle delta]

You’re allowed to prefer it if you insist but its a bad call

[dapper crag]

Oh no

[bold geode]

Offensive Rilla runs Hammer still

[dapper crag]

I'm talking real sets on ladder, not a call mate

[dapper crag]

Rilla sets Grassy Terrain

It's different calc, Ogerpon uses Swords Dance

[bold geode]

Yes and no?

Mine goes bonk, but I got Follow Me

[dapper crag]

I was just correcting Progatog on their claim

No big deal

[gentle delta]

As I said the other day, if you’re talk cart ladder then the conversation is irrelevant

[gentle delta]

Im not making a claim im stating objective truths lol

[bold geode]

I wouldn't correct Progatog tbh
Trust me, guy knows what he's saying

[dapper crag]

xD that again this is gold

[gentle delta]

Power whip is the suboptimal play

[dapper crag]

you like bringing this back it's amazing

[gentle delta]

You dont want inaccuracy on your moves

I mean I’m not going to argue with someone who insists on being wrong.

I come to this chat once in a while when I’m asked to to provide assistance. But you can’t teach someone not to be stubborn in the head.

Power Whip is a bad move when Wood Hammer is an option. The only reason you’d run it on Cornerstone is to keep Sturdy active

[bold geode]

Right
Like some moves I'd agree you don't mind inaccuracy
Like Chien Pao Icicle Crash or Heatran Heat Wave/Magma Storm
But with Power Whip, you already have better options in Hammer or Horn Leech, since Horn Leech with SD up can do crazy damage and help you stay around longer to sweep more
Meanwhile you miss Whip once, and that SD can be useless when it dies

If you got better options, you use them more

[dapper crag]

They lost me at you don't want inaccurate moves

[gentle delta]

Those are facts that any other serious player will agree with, and they’ll agree with my comments on cart ladder too.

Cart ladder is its own environment by nature of being closed sheet best of one, which is not an environment a healthy competitive meta develops in.

[bold geode]

https://tenor.com/view/jddjxj-dmndnd-head-smash-gif-17979724

Ok

[dapper crag]

Now the lack of healthy competitive meta on cart

[gentle delta]

Monke just move on and don’t engage, this is why I dont come here

[bold geode]

Nah nah I got this

[gentle delta]

There’s two kinda of bad players, ones who want to learn and ones who dont realize they’re bad players

[bold geode]

So let's compare inaccurate moves to show the arguments right

[gentle delta]

Jay here is the latter

[bold geode]

So Chien Pao Icicle Crash

[dapper crag]

Now judging bad players and labeling me

[gentle delta]

When I mentioned arguing with him yesterday to Tofu he just laughed and said dont bother

[dapper crag]

Move: Icicle Crash

Has a 30% chance to make the target flinch.

Type

Ice

Category

Physical

Power

85

Accuracy

90

PP (max)

10 (16)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Does not make contact.

SableyeBot version 4.24.3

[bold geode]

Not 100%, but more damage and flinch chance, which is why it's run as it's a decent gamble

Prog lemme finish plz

[dapper crag]

it also was getting around rocky helmet + preserving sash

but hey what do I fuckign know

I'm a bad player lmao

[bold geode]

That too see
You're getting it
Now

[gentle delta]

Im trying genuinely to help you despite your rudeness in replies.

Your refusal to take advice even when its explained to you in plain terms, and your insistence that you are correct anyway, makes you a bad player no matter how many games you win

[gentle delta]

No

[dapper crag]

''advice''' calls me a bad player

[bold geode]

Prog really
Shut up, I'm tryna defuse it, not helping

[gentle delta]

Jk bb go on

[bold geode]

Love you

Anyways
Heat Wave
Not 100%, but it hits both targets (most of the time)
Good gamble, why it's worth running

[dapper crag]

Once you step down from your ivory tower progatog, maybe you'll see value in different moves

You don't need to run 100% accurate moves on everything

[gentle delta]

I never said you do

[dapper crag]

Cart or official tournaments

[gentle delta]

But as monke is saying you need a good reason to use the inaccurate move

[bold geode]

[bold geode]

Can I finish explaining first plz

I'm actually tryna explain the concept

[dapper crag]

Not fainting to recoil on SD is not a good reason ?!?!

This is going nowhere

[gentle delta]

No its really not

[bold geode]

So Power Whip let's look at it

[dapper crag]

Move: Power Whip

No additional effect.

Type

Grass

Category

Physical

Power

120

Accuracy

85

PP (max)

10 (16)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Makes contact.

SableyeBot version 4.24.3

[bold geode]

It has no additional effect

[dapper crag]

1st user I gonna ignore in here

good job progatog

They said their perspective and they failed to comply with what other pros do

[bold geode]

Versus Horn Leech
Where you heal up and stay longer
Vs losing sweeper due to recoil
Therefore by that logic, I'd rather run Horn Leech since it has a benefit vs Power Whip which doesn't

[dapper crag]

That's it

[dapper crag]

on non SD sets sure, but Power Whip makes sense if you don't want recoil

[bold geode]

You see Wolfe Glicks video on the team he built around SD Ogerpon

Look at his moveset for me

[gentle delta]

Its risk vs reward

Low acc usually has a good reward for the risk

High bp with no effect isnt it

The inaccurate moves that people do use are either because the effect is good, like Magma Storm, its a good spread move, like Blizzard or Heat Wave, or its the only good stab option, like Stone Edge or Hydro Pump

[bold geode]

Yes
Icicle Crash was a good example
Good risk vs reward
Honestly if the other way was viable, Rillaboom would be running Frenzy Plant rn

[gentle delta]

Power Whip DOES count as the stab one for some mons, but since Oger has Wood Hammer you dont really want it

Tangrowth runs Whip because it doesn’t get hammer

[bold geode]

Or if you don't want recoil, Horn Leech

[gentle delta]

On a mon as frail as oger you’re honestly fine with recoil

[bold geode]

It's kinda mid anyways lol

[gentle delta]

Its not surviving many hits anyway

[bold geode]

I've never had Wellspring work
Only one I've had work is Hearthflame when I just need a good bonk

[cyan smelt]

it's fun to just bonk with ivy cudgel

[bold geode]

It can be
But also sometimes I'd just rather have something else
I like my board positioning

[gentle delta]

Cornerstone best oger

And only because its a better maushold

[cyan smelt]

isn't clefairy better than both

[bold geode]

Yes? Cornerstone just can do damage if it needs to

[nocturne holly]

👀

[bold geode]

So you get basically
Maushold Super Fang
Stone Edge with 100% accuracy
Follow Me with free sash for honestly free AF setup
And other things that can come into play depending on movesets

[nocturne holly]

bruh I had to read all of that

[bold geode]

Ogerpon doesn't get Super Fang, but basically the concept of Maushold being able to hit for a good chunk of HP

[dapper crag]

Move: Frenzy Plant

If this move is successful, the user must recharge on the following turn and cannot select a move.

Type

Grass

Category

Special

Power

150

Accuracy

90

PP (max)

5 (8)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Does not make contact.

Recharge

Has a recharge turn.

SableyeBot version 4.24.3

[nocturne holly]

👀

[bold geode]

Don't

[nocturne holly]

frenzy plant rilla cooking

come cook with me

[chrome knot]

BONGOBONGO IS A FORBIDDEN NAME

[nocturne holly]

🐸

[chrome knot]

@bold geode can i name my gorilla after you

[nocturne holly]

no you can’t he’s gonna arrest you

😔

[chrome knot]

he’d like it

i gib him trade fodder

[bold geode]

Absofuckinlutely
What you think I name my Monkeys?

[nocturne holly]

💅

[bold geode]

Tf

[deep sparrow]

Just a quick question. I’m new to VGC, and I’m trying/wanting to learn more. Over all grow as a player. Am I better off playing ladder on SD than in ranked cart?

[nocturne holly]

tbh using rentals is the way to go

So cart when beginning imo

[deep sparrow]

I’ve been using rentals and trying to make small twists when I feel comfortable. Just didn’t know which was more beneficial I guess. Cart doesn’t allow you to second guess yourself, when on SD (depending on if your opp has selected his moves for the turn) you can cancel and change.

[nocturne holly]

Showdown is definitely better when beginning to make your own teams

[bold geode]

Honestly the second guessing can come in handy sometimes
But yeah Showdown ladder is beneficial
Especially considering you can test and finalize a team before building on cart

[nocturne holly]

I think you’re fine with cart for now, alternatively you could find a poke paste of the team and import into showdown and play with that

[deep sparrow]

I gotcha. Thanks 🙏🏻

[nocturne holly]

np

[true niche]

🤨

[heady onyx]

That's a big crowd

[weak dune]

Hey guys, I’m looking to get into some competitive games sometime soon and I’m building a rain team. Wanna know if anyone has some tips or ideas for running that team or whether it’s worth doing?

[heady onyx]

Rain is really good weather right now

You have things like Urshifu-Water and Ogerpon-Wellspring that are powerful rain attackers

You can use Pelipper or Tornadus (both lol)

[gentle delta]

Ladder on showdown using a team thats well established to be good, while also having a guide to use it correctly

Imo cart ladder provides little benefit besides practicing without Showdowns handholding (reminder text, showing hp % etc)

I only use cart* (edit) ladder for content now, or to race friends to rank 1 for shits and giggles on a fresh alt

[deep sparrow]

Ohhh you make content?

[gentle delta]

But i at no point was trying to say cart is bad

[heady onyx]

playing games is how I'm learning but I'm noob

[gentle delta]

JaySP whom I was arguing with was insisting I was.

My point about cart is that theres a hard ceiling of how well you’ll learn

Because its not a healthy competitive environment

[deep sparrow]

No I understood what you meant. I was just asking mostly to get an understanding at benefits on both sides

[gentle delta]

Its just who has the weirdest gimmick or guesses the better lead

[gentle delta]

Legit this, playing (and losing) a bunch will teach you tons

[gentle delta]

Yeah, just started lol. I have a trick room focused channel

[nocturne holly]

Can we take a look?

[heady onyx]

tried making a team, ended up playing games and going from there

[deep sparrow]

I perform decently on cart. Not so much on SD. 😂

[dull ibex]

Cart does have the benefit of animations and visuals

[deep sparrow]

Even with the same team

[dull ibex]

Which is barely anything tbh

[gentle delta]

thats fluff not a benefit

[heady onyx]

they removed some animations from sword and shield

like urshifu lost their animation on signature move

[nocturne holly]

Fr it’s a difference experience than showdown

[dull ibex]

Eh helps some people with stimulation

[gentle delta]

Rain is very good atm

[dull ibex]

Neat

[heady onyx]

SD has a lot of alts tryhards

[gentle delta]

Alts aren’t because they’re try harde

It’s because what you use on your account is publicly available

So people use alts to mask that they’re testing

[weak dune]

I should mention this is my first time playing the game in a long time so I don’t really have mons I can port in from previous versions

[heady onyx]

So they're tryharding on low ladder to test teams xD

I'm guilty of it myself

[nocturne holly]

W
Trick room god makes sense

[gentle delta]

No its not about ladder position at all

[molten oasis]

It is a w

[dull ibex]

What does it matter If they try hard, curious?

[gentle delta]

It’s because, if your name is associated with tour showdown profile people can clock you

[molten oasis]

In vgc, idk

[gentle delta]

Im at the point where people can and will look for progatog to see what im on before a local mss

[heady onyx]

to me less likely to have alts on cart tryharding then on showdown

[cyan smelt]

click no spectators then

[gentle delta]

So I change my name from time to time, especially when testing something experimental

[molten oasis]

That’s awesome

[gentle delta]

Nah, having spectators is useful to

I often will share my games with my group and they pile in like a clown car to watch

[dull ibex]

But people try hard on cart too there's a rank reset

[heady onyx]

not if you're starting fresh right

My games were way easier when I started so I got a false sense of being good

[dull ibex]

The only person starting fresh on cart is someone new

[heady onyx]

Then the Master Ball reality hit me like a truck

[gentle delta]

Low ladder is also actually really bad for testing because you face so much off meta wild card shit

[dull ibex]

Smurfs are a non issue imo

[gentle delta]

So on an alt the goal is usually to rush to 1200 or so in bo3 ladder

[molten oasis]

Smurfs are mostly just people testing new stuff

[dull ibex]

I don't get the stigma behind try harding tbh

[molten oasis]

Smurfs in other games are a different story

[deep sparrow]

I was testing my draft team and won like 4 straight in SD against meta teams Lmao

[gentle delta]

(Ill be in and out of conversation im at a concert, if someone has a direct question ping me or dm me, I dont bite)

[dull ibex]

It's different in a math game then a twitch shooter

[heady onyx]

yeah low ladder SD is full of meta teams with the occasional wild one

[molten oasis]

Yea fs

[deep sparrow]

Is your YT the same as your name? I would love to learn more about TR

[dull ibex]

Do you mind sending me your channel? Trying to learn tr

When you're free ofc

[heady onyx]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOa9JRbnWPJvkOo4iDHcNKQ

found it

[dull ibex]

Ah I see cool

[marble coral]

my favorite hobby is watching prog demolish people

[cyan smelt]

he demolishes people in arguments too lmao

[gentle delta]

Lol but apparently im sitting on an ivory tower just being a dick 🤷‍♀️

[cyan smelt]

i'd trust the opinion of someone who plays the circuit far more than some internet rando

[bold geode]

I'm sorry, but can we plz move on

[gentle delta]

Tbf Im not referring to just the one guy

[bold geode]

Ah
Call out all the haters

"So this one fuckin dude"

[gentle delta]

Its not uncommon for tofu to ping me and ask for help, and the guys who wanted help will argue with me ad nauseum because they dont like what I have to say

You can teach game skill, you CANT teach good attitude

[bold geode]

Fix that attitude

[gentle delta]

Its not like I go “im right because im me”

Im in group chats with pretty big names, and most of what I say also comes from them or is agreed upon

So most of what I have to say is commonly understood

[bold geode]

Sources: I am him

[gentle delta]

Lol

[bold geode]

I AM THAT GUY

[gentle delta]

The highest compliment ive ever received still was Raghav saying I was scary 🥲

Made me feel like I made it

[bold geode]

Yeah
Wish someone tells me I'm cracked

[gentle delta]

Sucks I lost the set but the fact that he was more concerned fighting me than Brian Collins was like yooooo

[bold geode]

[heady onyx]

Did you win an event or something progatog ?

[bold geode]

Bro barely missed day two of Toronto

[gentle delta]

No im still new to the circuit

But ive done well enough to have a lot of attention from Canadian players, as im nearly undefeated in my locals

And my locals are stacked with guys who go to worlds every year

[bold geode]

👀

[heady onyx]

oh okay so you're still learning how to do well on pro scene nice

[molten oasis]

Dude I wish I had locals

Where I live sucks for vgc

[heady onyx]

looks rough competition is pretty solid

[gentle delta]

I lost day 2 to a 3% calc lol

Skill wise I earned that shit I was so bitter

[bold geode]

He made someone rage

[heady onyx]

day 2 of what ?

I don't know shit about competitions

[cyan smelt]

how tf was an iron hands faster than me

maybe it was tailwind

[bold geode]

So you have in regionals
Day 1 and 2 of Swiss before top cut
For regionals, you have to go at least 7-2 or x-2 depending on number of rounds for day 1 to advance to day 2
He was 6-3 day 1

[heady onyx]

would help to know what it outsped

[cyan smelt]

okidogi

[nocturne holly]

dogi can be slower than hands

[bold geode]

Oh that's probably a bit easy with TW
Hands are getting a little faster now

[nocturne holly]

Probably a fast hands and a slow dogi

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 1014: Okidogi

Types

Poison/Fighting

Abilities

Toxic Chain, Guard Dog (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

88/128/115/58/86/80

Total

555

SableyeBot version 4.24.3

[nocturne holly]

Yea hands can prob outspeed without tw if it has spe investments and dogi is fairly slow

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 992: Iron Hands

Types

Fighting/Electric

Abilities

Quark Drive

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

154/140/108/50/68/50

Total

570

SableyeBot version 4.24.3

[cyan smelt]

oh well i'm in master ball

[nocturne holly]

W

[gentle delta]

Regionals have 14 rounds of Swiss but to advance to Round 10+ you need a 7-2 record

I lost Game 3 of round 9 to a Hisuian Arcanine that survived Earth Power at 3 hp.

It was a 97% chance to ohko

My opponent proceeded to go 8-6 -_-

[nocturne holly]

what used ep?

[gentle delta]

And Carson Jones lost top cut because I didnt Day 2, he sat at 9th

[gentle delta]

Torkoal

[nocturne holly]

oh makes sense

[gentle delta]

Everyone I’ve told the story to was offended on my behalf

[gentle delta]

It doesn’t lol, its not a common harc spread

Even at max hp EP ohkos

[charred saddle]

it needed to be a lot of bulk investment

and its dumb

[nocturne holly]

Yea I figured, if it’s a more specially defensive harc taking an ep, I figured it wouldn’t be an ohko from tork

tough luck tho 😭

[bold geode]

I was so sad for Prog
I did the Rilla song for him

[nocturne holly]

🤓

[heady onyx]

So you know the EVS of enemy in tournament ?

[nocturne holly]

No

[bold geode]

No

[next stump]

nah he asked

[heady onyx]

Ha okay

[bold geode]

Only OTS

[heady onyx]

I was like how do they know the calc if they don't know EVs xD

[next stump]

my regionals record the past year is so cursed

[nocturne holly]

It’s ots, yk the items, Tera, and moves

[next stump]

7-2, 6-3, 6-3, 6-3, 6-3 LOL

[nocturne holly]

😭

everything’s 6-3 lol

[marble coral]

results to back it up allows for this tbh

[bold geode]

Spicy accept my challenge man

[next stump]

it's by far my biggest weakness

win and in games

[nocturne holly]

lol

w tho going to tourneys are huge

I’m gonna cry about this till the end of time but I have nothing near me rn

[heady onyx]

This is a big reason, tournaments are in specific locations

[marble coral]

got distracted here

[heady onyx]

Would be better if they were available online

[karmic temple]

God im so excited for San Antonio regionals next month

[heady onyx]

So then you get all the good players instead of a limited amount

[gentle delta]

Nah but you can infer

[karmic temple]

I’ll probably go 2-6 but it’s fine

[next stump]

there are hella online tournaments, just not official

[gentle delta]

Having a weird surprise EV spread is one of the few ways you can gotcha people in Open Sheet

[heady onyx]

official ones I mean

[gentle delta]

Like my patented beef hands spread

[next stump]

they hold 3 official ones per year

its just really hard to police online competitions

[heady onyx]

there must be really good players not near the competitions

so it makes it hard to get the best players from everywhere

Like I can't compete in anything where I live

[nocturne holly]

what challenge bruh

[next stump]

there definitely are, but in theory you can qualify for worlds without going to too many in-person tournaments

so there are good players who manage to qualify and play without spending crazy money

[heady onyx]

who did this ?

for real, you got players earning enough CPs just with the few online ones ?

[next stump]

do you live in NA or EU

[gentle delta]

Its not possible with just the online tours unless you live in I think Saudi Arabia or other nearby countries.

They have the lowest cp threshold needed

But you can get about 40% of what you need in theory, but not reliably enough to bank on it

The idea was that to try and keep things fair, you need more CP the closer you are to tours

[next stump]

latin america/oceania can do it, they only need 300 points

not easy at all, but possible

like a Gabriel Agati could definitely do it

[heady onyx]

I live in Alaska 😦

[gentle delta]

Sure but you can’t reliably bank on top 4 3 times in a competition that large

When setting points goals its better to temper expectations

My path to worlds requires 80 points from regionals, which I have.

6 top 4s in MSS, easy
6 PC wins, also quite easy

From there, I just need 38 points from GCs, which I can also do away with if one or two of those MSS are 1st place

[gentle delta]

Not entirely impossible to qualify, if there are any places to play tcg near you they have the authority to do vgc locals too

I know theres at least an mtg scene in alaska

[heady onyx]

Gonna stick to ladder and good fun I guess

[gentle delta]

And that IS fine

[heady onyx]

maybe give a shot to online circuits if they come by

[gentle delta]

My newest video is about a team I would literally only recommend using on cart ladder

Cart ladder fun is fine and dandy

My only frustration with Jay was him saying something doing well on cart ladder meant it was “good” which isn’t really true

As in my video, I force my way to victory with a fucking Dragalge

Which proves my point lol

But thats fine, not everyone is playing in tours

I just don’t recommend confusing “doing well on ladder” with “meta viable”

Those two things aren’t entirely mutually exclusive but its venn diagram isnt a circle either

[heady onyx]

but most players are using the meta right

[charred saddle]

not really on cart

[heady onyx]

it's not crazy experimentations going around in master ball

[gentle delta]

About 70/30, still most

[heady onyx]

it's tornadus urshifu rillaboom hands flutter mane and friends

[gentle delta]

And Dragalge 🤡

[heady onyx]

with some TR teams showing the same ones

[heady onyx]

I'd love to see Dragalge but I don't

[gentle delta]

Tbf TR is the best its been since pre USUM gen 7 atm

[heady onyx]

not saying it's not good lol

[gentle delta]

Thats the joke lol. In my video I talk about how for a mon with non-zero potential its odd I never see it ever

[charred saddle]

why? is it because of tera / TR F indeedee support

[heady onyx]

just that it's mostly the same Mons with little variation

[gentle delta]

But its pretty poor, needs a lot of support to be half decent

[gentle delta]

Lot of reasons, but no its not that explicitly

Basically the meta is mostly fast frail stuff

Which tr feeds on

[heady onyx]

Hands is everywhere and it's not frail xD

[gentle delta]

And the teams we lose to, lose to the more common top teams

So the better you do in a tour with TR the less likely you are to see your silver bullets

We’ve had Psyspam top 8 two regionals in a row when it never has

And even though people in my scene throw the book at me I still win. Armarouge is stupidly good

[charred saddle]

im still surprised with the gallade pick last time

hits so hard

[gentle delta]

I brought Gallade to Toronto

Hes insane

I named it Brian for the rude factor

Anyway, phones going away for rest of concert wife is unhappy lol

I can be reached by dm but if you ping me and I look in 3 hours I prob wont see it

[charred saddle]

right. have fun in concert

thanks for insights

[nocturne holly]

Armadeedee is my worst mu

Im gonna switch back to roaring

Tr is a hard matchup for me, sunroom teams in particular https://pokepast.es/13d51bfa09ef0f33

[jovial storm]

I am looking to make a mixed attacking Sceptile (for fun, not competitive…unless I change my mind later). Does anyone have any tips on making a mixed attacking Mon?

[cyan smelt]

I kinda want to try tr with wp hisuian avalugg, brick break to activate wp and sweep

[nocturne holly]

Thoughts on how I could fix it?

[cyan smelt]

Uh either tr on one of your mons to cancel it out or taunt

Or rain dance?

[nocturne holly]

On what

I’d basically have to switch moon to torn

[cyan smelt]

Maybe replace roaring moon with torn

[nocturne holly]

I tried torn and I didn’t really like it

[cyan smelt]

Hm

[gentle delta]

This is one of my free-est matchups in the format

You can accept that because its still fine into other things

[heady onyx]

Oh yeah Tornadus is so good

[molten oasis]

Imma be honest I think the team is fine

You don’t got to change shit

If you really want a better matchup for armadeedee rilla is an option

[heady onyx]

how does it make it better ?

[molten oasis]

Rilla sets terrain

And so does indeedee

So to shut down the other terrain you have rilla

Switching it in

[heady onyx]

But they can switch in Indeedee no ?

And Armarouge gets Fire move no ?

Fake Out doesn't work in psychic terrain too

[charred saddle]

expanding force doesnt get boosted, and wasting indeedee to return and switch back in means its a passive turn

[molten oasis]

Yea it’s kind of a 50/50 matchup

Rilla is the way to handle Deedee but Deedee is how you handle rilla

[heady onyx]

They can have it in the back no ?

I don't see how it makes the matchup personally

[charred saddle]

armarouge without support indeedee feels a bit weird, no follow me support kinda feels off

but theres the new endure armarouge with weak armour now

and u have the rilla on the back too

[heady onyx]

i see Eject Button on Torkoal sometimes, they have ways to do it for tempo

[charred saddle]

eh, thats no damage torkoal then

like hit it once with prio moves and i dont think itll do much

and my current team had rain dance torn. torkoal is never a problem

usually with armadeedee
i go kingambit Harc

kowtow to indeedee, rockslide.

since its usually a free first turn to deal damage. if its tera water indeedee,

Rockslide hits SE to armarouge, doesnt KO indeedee, but dies to kowtow.

if its tera grass armarouge, indeedee dies, (means no more follow me support next turn), then rockslide to single. doesnt kill, but sucker tera dark kills it

and even if its like going badly like indeedee still doesnt die, expanding cant hit dark, so i switch harc to rilla for fake out / grassy glide

[cyan smelt]

what if it's tera fairy indeedee

[charred saddle]

yeah, if its fairy. goes in to rilla, then kowtow to indeedee

still teraing dark, so heatwave doesnt hit SE to Kingambit

TR is no probelm to my team since i have 3 prio to play with, FO, sucker and extreme speed

[cyan smelt]

weak armour endure armarouge is annoying

[charred saddle]

torkoal usually got hit by prio then it does less damage with eruption. but i hate BM

yeah weak armour endure arm makes it able to play outside TR

its very annoying

[cyan smelt]

people keep finding ways to make armadeedee viable

[heady onyx]

indeedee is so good at denying prio

[heady onyx]

it's a strong duo without much tricks added

expanding force psychic terrain is really strong

[charred saddle]

thats why i focused on it. and i have rilla

[heady onyx]

you don't need to look anywhere imo

[charred saddle]

theres no way indeedee lives 2 kowtow + 1 Harc banded STAB rockslide

[cyan smelt]

weak armour weakness policy armarouge is scary

[charred saddle]

thats why i specified that in cases where indeedee lives, i still kowtow to it and switch in rilla to reduce expanding boosted.

andddd FO next

last time i met weak armour endure arm, its focus sashed

dude like. it hits once, and i hit rockslide crit, focus sashed.

i was like okay, next just prio. dude it endures.

i was like "fuck"

[cyan smelt]

last time i met it, i used surging strikes to get it down to 1 hp then the tsareena tried to u-turn on it or something because it tera'd to psychic but it KOed it

people using gimmicks really don't think about their plays

[heady onyx]

that's not very fair statement

like pretty sure some players are very good with gimmicks

dondozo-tatsugiri is pretty skill testing imo

[cyan smelt]

not really, you just sit there and spam order up and protect

[heady onyx]

that's you not thinking about it then 😛

[cyan smelt]

that's what i see most of the time

[heady onyx]

I see a lot of dondozo games in high mmr on sd and it's not that simple

where you lead and how you play it out is very not that simple imo

[cyan smelt]

well it's super annoying lol, makes me wish skeledirge was still viable

[charred saddle]

gimmick teams usually like have a pretty straightforward spamming

[dull ibex]

tornadus feels too solved

[charred saddle]

not saying every team, but its most of it and its dumb

[heady onyx]

Nah your gimmick could be very clever and subtle

[dull ibex]

not likely

not for the kind of players who run gimmicky teams imo

[heady onyx]

not gimmicky teams, just a gimmick on a team

something you hide and is surprising while not very common

can't be dozogiri or armadeedee always

sometimes you get other stuff

[dull ibex]

I also have a different understanding of gimmick

if its consistent and works its a strat or a tech

if its unreliable and relies on CTS its a gimmick

[charred saddle]

the latter is what i usually call a gimmick

[dull ibex]

beat up justified is not a gimmick its a strat

perish trap isnt a gimmick, etc.

[charred saddle]

like explosion regieleki

[dull ibex]

running pikachu fling is a gimmick

[charred saddle]

it needs CTS to work. even if it like win 4 times in a row

the weak armour arm isnt a gimmick again now tho

its been featured a lot

[dull ibex]

weak armor is kind of unreliable imo

too much counterplay

[charred saddle]

it is, but it enables it to play outside TR

[dull ibex]

armarouge?

[charred saddle]

ye

[dull ibex]

just run it in tr imo

not worth personally

could i make 2 2 2 into a hard tr team

[charred saddle]

its different preferance, but like people who have the normal armadee TR counter like imprison gets surprised with endure weak armour arm outspeeding you outside TR

its a cool tech

[dull ibex]

ig so

maybe like clops luna, armadee, two fast mons?

[charred saddle]

flutter chiyu

chiyu helps with reducing sp def too anyway

[dull ibex]

not relevant I tried

[charred saddle]

oh really?

[dull ibex]

atleast for lun

so the probelm is chi-yu's speed

[charred saddle]

i mean u can like setup TR, then hypervoice switch in chiyu

hmm i mean yeah

[dull ibex]

yeah but then chi yu is easy to kill

[charred saddle]

but u can kill the chiyu threat with bloodmoon

since luna is prob the slowest there

and like running sash chiyu maybe?

[dull ibex]

chiyu is useless inside tr its not really worth tbh

[static ice]

Anyone here has a paste for a viable weather team?

[charred saddle]

which weather?

and vgc paste in pin have a nice teams

[heady onyx]

Yes. https://pokepast.es/9a3e00a1514bc058

It's a fun sand team paste someone gave from showdown, they were using it

I messed up the Empoleon, it should be Hydro Pump lol

[deep sparrow]

Not a whole lot to brag about but just finished the tourney I entered yesterday. Out of 12 people I took 2nd overall.

[dull ibex]

weather teams are normally just 2-3 weather mons then full with stuff that isnt impeding by weather

I do NOT reccomend sand rn

[static ice]

I want a rain team actually

What should I go for?

Any thoughts or ideas?

[charred saddle]

if ur talking a fun team, recently cybertron featured a fun pelipper team

https://pokepast.es/76b11baf9e9aee30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96sdU_SqCOA&t=2667swatch
watch it for better explanation

[static ice]

Yeah I saw that video and despised that team

Any other suggestions?

[heady onyx]

Why not, that team came from a 1700 player

[charred saddle]

coming from a high ranked player doesnt translate it being an easy team anyway.

you need to know the uses

[heady onyx]

they were looking a weather paste team

that is what I posted

the use is to play the team

[charred saddle]

ok

[heady onyx]

what is the use for a weather paste team otherwise ?

[charred saddle]

i mean of the uses are like each of the moveset and team usage

like rilla taunt isnt common

u sending the paste with no explanation while just saying its a high ranked player team wont help

[heady onyx]

they asked for a weather team paste

[charred saddle]

ok ill jsut drop it

since theres no point

[heady onyx]

just trying to help here

if you need to have a full guide to drop a simple paste I'm sorry

i won't do it anymore lol

[charred saddle]

no. i didnt mean that

[heady onyx]

then what do you mean ?

[dull ibex]

hey man listen

people can disagree with the paste you posted

nobody villianized you for it, people disagree with my pastes constantly

[heady onyx]

but i just help

no need to argue xD

[dull ibex]

yes and I disagree with the team you posted because I think they can do better for the current meta

[heady onyx]

you can always do better ofc

[dull ibex]

rain sun or snow are stronger atm

[heady onyx]

sand won a regional no ?

[dull ibex]

Don't think so

Ttar on a team won regionals

[bold geode]

If you count Zhangs team
But it wasn't sand

[lofty tartan]

Winning =/= stronger and that TTar/Kommo-o team was sort of a meta call

[heady onyx]

ttar is the only sand setter no ?

[lofty tartan]

It's not super easy to pilot and doesn't have general application

[dull ibex]

Don't think so

but ttar being on a team doesnt make it a sand team

[heady onyx]

this is going nowhere lol ill go back playing games

[lofty tartan]

[dull ibex]

good luck then

[lofty tartan]

Stay hydrated

[dull ibex]

anyways

I'll see if I can find a snow team to drop here as an alternative

[charred saddle]

kinda tempted to make a water urshifu team

[lofty tartan]

I'm questioning my team pick for my upcoming MSS and it's stressful

[charred saddle]

its annoying and very strong lol

[heady onyx]

oh yes urshifu is very strong

[lofty tartan]

I hate how wonky ladder results can be.

[dull ibex]

rapid is still as broken as it was last reg

[charred saddle]

the pressure of not being able to protect and outspeeding u is very scary

[deep sparrow]

I think there’s a couple in the rental teams channel

[dull ibex]

well spring helps

[charred saddle]

yep i got wellspring oger and rilla for it but still its annoying

[dull ibex]

I would not reccomend the two snow teams I saw in rentals

Articuno is kinda mid for someone inexpirenced and sandslash is idk kinda weird

[deep sparrow]

😂 fair

[bold geode]

Someone say snow

[dull ibex]

yep

[bold geode]

Pog

[dull ibex]

goP

[cyan smelt]

waluigi game when

[dull ibex]

Hopefully never

[crude pollen]

Right after he gets his Smash invite

[cyan smelt]

ok so never

[heady onyx]

Hisiuan-Goodra steals the win

so clutch

[charred saddle]

last time i saw snow team.

abomasnow hits blizzard to kingambit without snow (i rain danced)

it freezed. and KG never saw the light ever again. 6 turns not thawing and it dies

[heady onyx]

there is alolan-ninetales being used right now

really good Pokemon, the Aurora Veil is 2 screens in 1

really good move

[charred saddle]

a9 can be in anywhere. it doesnt have to be a snow team.

its there mainly to setup screens
its nice

[heady onyx]

It sets up snow with their ability

[charred saddle]

? i know?

[mighty stump]

Mm

Im not feeling that recent team

in rentals

[charred saddle]

the alolan sandslash or?

[mighty stump]

Yep

Just the Surf Slowking

no Poison STAB

Might as well have chosen K-Slowking

[heady onyx]

everytime I've seen ninetales it sets snow so far

[molten oasis]

It has to set snow to set veil

[heady onyx]

yeah it's a great move

[mighty stump]

I dunno overall it seems like a weak team offensively relative to the current power scale

[molten oasis]

But a9 doesn’t need a partner to abuse snow

It’s a really strong support Mon

[charred saddle]

this. is what i mean.

a9 support just for veil, doesnt have to be in a snow team

[heady onyx]

it sets snow for the veil normally

[charred saddle]

i didnt say it not taking snow warning

[molten oasis]

It’s always taking snow warning

[heady onyx]

ya

[charred saddle]

dude is my sentence weirdly sentenced or something

[heady onyx]

it's nice that weathers are viable

[charred saddle]

idk, ill just sleep

[molten oasis]

Weathers have always been viable

[heady onyx]

always liked them but snow was bad last few gens

hail wasn't good when I started playing

[molten oasis]

Snow was bad cuz it just did chip damage

Nothing else

[heady onyx]

but now it's good

you can make a good team with snow

you have chilly reception bax in singles

I'm in love with snow rn

but I'm in love with sand too

team I posted is so good

[molten oasis]

Chilly reception Bax???

You posted a team?

[charred saddle]

prob meant that posting the pokepaste team here before

[charred saddle]

this one is what he meant

[molten oasis]

Pretty decent team

[heady onyx]

I mean in Singles, chilly reception to get in Bax, it's a nice setup

[molten oasis]

Oh I see

[heady onyx]

got Baxcalibur banned (not just this, Scale Shot too)

[molten oasis]

Lol

Meanwhile it sits at 3% usage in vgc

(I don’t think baxcalibur is great)

[heady onyx]

It would fit on a snow team I'm sure

[mighty stump]

Baxcalibur is poggers

Baxlance will definitely be a thing as well

[molten oasis]

Idk it hasn’t worked for me

[charred saddle]

last time i saw it in opposing its scale shot icicle spear loaded dice

[molten oasis]

It’s such a fucking Tera hog

[mighty stump]

CA Ddance >>

[heady onyx]

yeah I like it, someone gave it to me yesterday

[molten oasis]

I didn’t try CA ddance

I’ve only done loaded dice stuff

[gentle delta]

I am back, I am too lazy to read what I missed but Im back

[molten oasis]

Not much

[mighty stump]

No clue

[gentle delta]

Disagree tbh

[mighty stump]

Other than nitpicking at the current rentals

[molten oasis]

I really don’t think Bax is that good rn

[gentle delta]

I crush em every time I see em with any team type, and I never have good use of them when I try them

[molten oasis]

I think it has potential to be good

But it wants, a lot to say the least

[mighty stump]

Just needs the right support

There are far worse options out there

[molten oasis]

That’s true

[mighty stump]

No one running thsoe AV tera ground or CA DDance sets anymore on TW/Balance

[charred saddle]

the typing is pretty weak since theres a lot of common moves like fairy, fighting, steel, rock.

even fire now hits neutral

[molten oasis]

Idk what that support is, it’s not waterpon that’s for sure

[mighty stump]

and also: You dont need a dragon STAB lol

[charred saddle]

why not

[molten oasis]

Dragon stab sucks

[gentle delta]

you nuts

[charred saddle]

since it doesnt hit a lot of mon?

[mighty stump]

Because Ice is already a premium offensive type, unless you really need a strong neutral, going for its ground coverage is just far superior

[molten oasis]

Oh wow you hit other dragons for se good job

[molten oasis]

I mean like, type wise

[mighty stump]

Ice/Ground is objectively the best offensive coverage

[gentle delta]

Dragon is excellent for having so few safe switch ins

[mighty stump]

There is no debate there

[charred saddle]

thats what ive thought

[gentle delta]

No its not lol

Fairy Ground is

[mighty stump]

It is lol

Ice/Ground

[charred saddle]

being able to hit neutral on alot is pretty nice

[dapper crag]

Ice, Ground

Hits for 1x

Bug, Dark, Fairy, Fighting, Ghost, Ice, Normal, Psychic, Water

Hits for 2x

Dragon, Electric, Fire, Flying, Grass, Ground, Poison, Rock, Steel

SableyeBot version 4.24.3

[gentle delta]

One of the few things I agree with Wolfe on

[molten oasis]

That’s nuts

[charred saddle]

but having ground coverage is also nice

[gentle delta]

He did a whole video ranking every type combination offensively including unused ones

Fairy Ground was at the top

[dapper crag]

Fairy, Ground

Hits for 1x

Bug, Fairy, Flying, Ghost, Grass, Ground, Ice, Normal, Psychic, Water

Hits for 2x

Dark, Dragon, Electric, Fighting, Fire, Poison, Rock, Steel

SableyeBot version 4.24.3

[gentle delta]

In singles Ubers Fairy Arceus with Calm Mind Earth Power is the only fairy not named Xerneas worth a damn

[molten oasis]

9 se to 8 se

[mighty stump]

1 less SE hit

[gentle delta]

When you factor in other dual types Fairy Ground gets you more mileage

[mighty stump]

You cover more types

Its been debated about before

[molten oasis]

Maybe that’s why a fairy ground type doesn’t exist lol

[mighty stump]

Ice/Ground is on top

[charred saddle]

ice does have more weaknesses i think. compared to fairy

i realized context is offensive tho

[heady onyx]

No no no, it's been dominating Singles forever

[mighty stump]

Fairy Ground already exists offensively@if you wanna run Enamorous