competitive_discussion

[keen karma]

without av?

[gloomy crescent]

Is bulk defence

Also hai chat back from school

[mighty stump]

You have A9

[cerulean arrow]

if you'd like i can send a replay here of the team

[mighty stump]

You need to restructure your team choices

in my strong opinion

This isnt really the way to run Bloodmoon Ursaluna

[gloomy crescent]

There is a new rule in school break time areas no phones so that equals no pokemon no phones also means no discord so pretty much school is now a prison

[mighty stump]

I mean

School is pretty important

[keen karma]

i only do pokemon in my free periods

[gloomy crescent]

It's breaktime

Like I do the pokemon anyways

[keen karma]

do ppl run kingambit + gholdengo on the same team?

[gloomy crescent]

My friend does pla and I get him shinys

[mighty stump]

I don't see why not

[keen karma]

i mean its heatran and lando t food

i might just try grasspon

[cerulean arrow]

how do you suggest I fix this team?

cuz i feel like it can work in low elo but itll get destroyedd in higher elo because it leaves too much to chance

[mighty stump]

Theres just too many gaps and not a real game plan

I suggest you rehash it from scratch and decide based on an archetype that Blood Moon can actually function on like Trick Room or Clefairy

[keen karma]

my team is solid for the most part except i keep switching for matchups

this team started as a roaring tw setup team

now it has dnite

because i never click sd into hearth

[cerulean arrow]

clefairy like follow me?

[mighty stump]

https://pokepast.es/47e9cbdb8b411bd7
https://pokepast.es/2221ab4fc4e91a01
Here is a couple of Blood Moon teams, with the second one being very off-meta

[keen karma]

idk if its a me problem or i literally have no situations where i can click it most of the time

[mighty stump]

https://pokepast.es/15c8bb2ef31cf05c

This is a Clefairy version

[tidal blade]

tera fairy sinistcha?

[mighty stump]

Note these are not my teams, just ripped from the Repository in the pins

Which can serve as a decent starting point for ideas

[keen karma]

where can i find the repository

[mighty stump]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OgABE4qrDY

[keen karma]

or is it private

[cerulean arrow]

thanks!

[gentle crag]

just.jayu has given 1 Gen Rep to woodtofu

[mighty stump]

-calc 187/1.5

[gentle crag]

Result: 124.666667

[keen karma]

alr so i came up with this https://pokepast.es/bab66f92e97d61d3

do i just drop hands for rilla or run sitrus

[dull ibex]

Hi chat

[keen karma]

hey redington

vgc

[dull ibex]

Yert

[gloomy crescent]

Wait tofu you change your pfo

Pfp

[mighty stump]

?

[gloomy crescent]

Morning

@mighty stump

[mighty stump]

Odd, im should be using one of my server profiles

Oh well

[bold geode]

You were

[keen karma]

did you just change it

because it was like this the entire time

[mighty stump]

No the whole day

[wispy spade]

Is it ever good to tera+protect?

Like against urshifu

[dull ibex]

Thoughts on this 🤔

[wispy spade]

Fairy is S, so i agree

[dull ibex]

This is overall viability of the type not a Tera tier list

[wispy spade]

Fairy best type

[dull ibex]

Steel is super good as well

[wispy spade]

Sadly yes

[brisk plaza]

Ice is so much better than people give it credit

[keen karma]

this is so subjective

[dull ibex]

yeah no duh its a tier list

[keen karma]

imo fire should be higher

[dull ibex]

why?

curious as to the reasons

[keen karma]

rock is underrated af

poison is a great typing

[brisk plaza]

Ice kills dragon,grass,flying,and groud very popular meta types as well as with the introduction of snow ice types defenses have gone waaaay up and aura veil is literally a meta strat

[dull ibex]

right but defensively ice types are still garbage

and ice types greatest strength rn are being able to tera out of ice

A9 is good because fairy is busted

[brisk plaza]

Who said defensive ice types?

[dull ibex]

its about overall viability of the type which means we consider offense and defense

[brisk plaza]

Iron bundle, cetitan, alolan ninetails,

[dull ibex]

cetitan isnt good

[brisk plaza]

And as I said snow buffs defense

Cetitan is amazing

Slush rush life can ohko a lot

[dull ibex]

it hasnt had a presence in any major format for months

Bundle and a9 are good inspite of their typing

[brisk plaza]

And? That's just the "meta" that won't tell you much about a typing strength

They are good because of it

[dull ibex]

they are not

the ice typing itself still very much sucks, Maybe I could see a D tier instead of F?

[brisk plaza]

Agree to disagree my snow team is and has been MB rank every regulation

[dull ibex]

because snow does make it bearable to be an ice type

I don't think your team and playing is a reflection of the type's strength and weaknesses as a typing

It would be like calling rock a good typing because a rock type is meta

or poison god tier because amoongus used to be omniprescent

[brisk plaza]

@dull ibex you just said cetitan was bad because he's not in the meta though

[dull ibex]

No I said cetitan isnt in the meta because it kinda sucks

slightly different argument

[next stump]

i miss reg a cetitan

[brisk plaza]

Well no its very good and can ohkp so many meta threats lol slush rush is dumb

[dull ibex]

im ngl being able to ohko stuff doesnt make it good

[keen karma]

i mean cetitan seems like its a good antimeta pick

[brisk plaza]

Meta is only comparable too if a player brings a certain mon tbf

[dull ibex]

there is a bit more that goes into viablity then that

[keen karma]

and for reg f regionals im planning on taking garchomp cetitan

[brisk plaza]

Of course there is and cetitan in my opinion meets those criteria

[untold tendon]

what are some good spatk carries except flutter mane

[brisk plaza]

@keen karma broooo I'm planning on zapdos, slash rush cetitan terra ground EQ

[dull ibex]

it has a bad typing, mediocre stats, needs heavy set up to work, im not sure what makes it good tbh

[brisk plaza]

Mediocre?

[dull ibex]

yeah that is pretty meh

[brisk plaza]

Needs no set up just snow

Slush rush outspeeds dracopukt

[dull ibex]

god tier hp stat but it doesnt matter if it gets crapped on by alot of common typing

[brisk plaza]

Attack is amazing too lol

[next stump]

what format are you playing

[brisk plaza]

Life orb slush rush gg

[dull ibex]

113 is a good stat not an amazing stat

[brisk plaza]

It's absolutely amazing with slush rush snow aroua veil

You just take no damage

[dull ibex]

I just don't believe that

[brisk plaza]

Outspeed everything

[dull ibex]

I imagine it just loses to urshifu with decent play

[brisk plaza]

And hurt like crazy

[untold tendon]

just for pokemon scarlet singles

[brisk plaza]

Um...play rough ohko

[dull ibex]

CC be ohkoing ice types

[brisk plaza]

I outspeed

[dull ibex]

like I said decent playing

[next stump]

you can check pikalytics and go to Battle Stadium Singles

it’s likely stuff like Ursaluna-Bloodmoon

[dull ibex]

there are a few things I can do to fix the outspeeding probelm

[brisk plaza]

How do you play around being outsped

[untold tendon]

ok thanks

[gentle crag]

cifuasada has given 1 Gen Rep to mlbd

[dull ibex]

speed control

[brisk plaza]

I outspeed with scarf on urshi

[dull ibex]

ok what do you against tailwind or trick room?

[brisk plaza]

So there's a reason I had zapdis As my second lol

I have imprison flutter on my team for TR and zapdos with counter tailwind

Easy

[dull ibex]

Easy is a stretch

[brisk plaza]

Nah it's pretty simple I regcinize TR setters and cluck imprison lol

[dull ibex]

I think there is a reason aurora veil teams aren't running alot of ice types

they mostly just run a9+bundle/bax

baxcalibur is also great despite it typing

[brisk plaza]

I mean...the beauty is you don't need too but get more bonuses if you do lol

So half the team then? Lol

[dull ibex]

2 mons isnt half the team

its a 1/3

[brisk plaza]

Bax,a9,bundle

[dull ibex]

that isnt what I said

[brisk plaza]

Literally that combo was in regional

I mean your correct though

[dull ibex]

its a9 and baxcalibur or bundle

[brisk plaza]

Those 3 you actually see another on the same team lol

[dull ibex]

more often then not bax because bundle is a bit rough

[brisk plaza]

Nah you see bundle more

He's too fast hits too hard

[dull ibex]

baxcalibur is 21% as a partner to a9
bundle is 20%

you do not see bundle paired more with a9

[keen karma]

that is probably not up to date

[dull ibex]

pikalytics isnt that far off even with meta changes

[keen karma]

take the info with a grain of salt

the meta is still changing a ton

[dull ibex]

no im good anyways back to my argument

Ice type lacks too much defensively to make up for its good offensive power

which is true it does hit stuff good

[brisk plaza]

It's very survivable now lol

[dull ibex]

its the same with rock types

[brisk plaza]

Like can tank hits easy

[dull ibex]

they have a good offensive power but are garbage defensively

[brisk plaza]

Aura viel plus snow lol

[dull ibex]

listen man if an ice type is good its because of stats and movepool not the ice types

ice type is still a detriment

[brisk plaza]

Nah they were literally given tools too not be defensively bad lol

Ice hits so many meta threats lol

[dull ibex]

getting a higher stats on mons doesnt give the typing more resists and neutrals

[brisk plaza]

It literally buffs their def

[dull ibex]

it doesnt change the typing though

[brisk plaza]

It um changes the fact they aren't defensively weak as you say lol

[dull ibex]

making something bulkier doesnt make their typing better it makes easier to compensate for it for sure

right ice type being bad defensively isnt relevant to stats

[brisk plaza]

So compensating a weakness does indeed make it better lol

[dull ibex]

no it makes the pokemon better not the typing

[brisk plaza]

Ice type had no stats?

[dull ibex]

no the ice typing has no stats lmao

[brisk plaza]

It literally makes Ice types weakness go away

[dull ibex]

no it doesnt???????

[brisk plaza]

Which in turn makes Ice types better

[dull ibex]

ice types stay weak to fighting and fire and so on

snow doesnt change that, you could bring up tera

[brisk plaza]

So because they have weakness in supet effectiveness they are bad? Lol

[dull ibex]

but that just strengthens the arguments ice types are good because they aren't teethered to it

[brisk plaza]

So fire types are bad

Cause they die to water

[dull ibex]

in a sense yeah when they are weak too so much and don't resist enough its a bad typing

Defensively

[brisk plaza]

Fire dies to EQ

Fire bad

[dull ibex]

are you purposefully trying to make me sound stupid?

there is not a chance in hell you think that is my argument

[brisk plaza]

Not at all lol I'm saying your saying a type is bad because it has super effective weakness

[dull ibex]

ok so you just have no clue what my argument is

that is fine

[brisk plaza]

I mean I do lol I'm reiterated what you said

[dull ibex]

no you didnt you twisted an argument

right so poison type is good defensive right

[brisk plaza]

Ice is weak too fighting and fire even though it's weakness was fixed under snow so it's bad lol

[dull ibex]

but its not

[brisk plaza]

Ok bro lol agree to disagree lol

[dull ibex]

the weaknesses the ice type has is not related to stats

no this is just objectively wrong and misrepresenting what im saying

if i put a fairy type behind screens that doesnt fix the weakness a fairy type would have

its still weak to steel, it could maybe help the individual mon

because this isnt a stats argument

this about the typing itself

[brisk plaza]

...... are screens a natural part of what fairy types do?

No lol but snow is literally what ice types do

[dull ibex]

screens isnt a natural part of what ice types do

no that isnt true, its what a9 does

[brisk plaza]

Snow fixes defensive problems

[dull ibex]

NO it doesnt

[brisk plaza]

Snow makes ice waaaay better

[dull ibex]

this isnt about stats

[brisk plaza]

It definitely does lol

You say ice is weak defensively

[dull ibex]

YES THE TYPING

[brisk plaza]

So....that's about what then?

Ok and snow does what?

Lol

[dull ibex]

its weak to alot of key types and doesnt resist enough to make it for that

[tidal blade]

snow isnt really that helpful when youre still weak to like all of the common offensive types

[brisk plaza]

But what does snow do?

[dull ibex]

what does ice resist

tell me what ice resists?

[tidal blade]

ice type is a double edged sword its the best offensive type in return for being the worst defensive type

[brisk plaza]

What's fairy resist? Lol

But its defenses were buffed very hard lol

[dull ibex]

fighting bug and dark

[brisk plaza]

Making them much better lol

[dull ibex]

ok your argument is just flat out nonsensical

oh also the dragon immunity is huge

[brisk plaza]

Nah we are just using different measurements

Why it's all subjective lol

[tidal blade]

think about this, even with the defense boost youre still taking 1.5x dmg

[dull ibex]

you are literally fighting my reasoning with irrelevant points to my arguments

[tidal blade]

at that point just tera and get 1x dmg

and even 0.5x

[dull ibex]

what does snow do to a special attack from flash cannon or heatwave?

[brisk plaza]

You csn literally say this about any typing though lol it's too subjective man lol

[dull ibex]

no you can't

fairy type has 2 meta relevant resistances alot of neutral typing and an immunity

and checks dragons as a whole

that is not even comparable to ice type

[brisk plaza]

You absolutely can lol watch

[dull ibex]

thank you for understanding

[gentle crag]

redstonejesus has given 1 Gen Rep to aeythr

[dull ibex]

listen an ice type pokemon can be good and a fairy type pokemon can be bad

but the individual typing isnt good or bad based on that

[brisk plaza]

Fairy is weak too steel one of the most popular typing in the meta one flash cannon and your toast and you literally cannot do much unless you terra fire or have a fire/ground move but even then flash fire on heatran

Fairy is one of the best

[dull ibex]

fairy is the best typing in the game

[brisk plaza]

But you csn do this with any typing

[dull ibex]

no you can not

[brisk plaza]

Exactly lol

[dull ibex]

that is literally ignoring everything else

[brisk plaza]

I literally just did lol it's all opinions

[dull ibex]

firstly no duh its an opinion there is no point in asserting that

you are literally just telling im wrong trying to be nicer about it

[brisk plaza]

Then there you go so ho back to agree to disagree

[dull ibex]

yeah whatever man

[brisk plaza]

Nah I'm not saying your wrong lol

I'm saying I think ice types are better then thag

[dull ibex]

but there not

[brisk plaza]

Why it's an opinion lol

[dull ibex]

what does ice type resist?

[brisk plaza]

See? Opinion lol

[dull ibex]

alright

[brisk plaza]

See your the one caught up on saying no they aren't lol

[dull ibex]

because you are ignoring the evidence for your own opinion based off a team you like

[brisk plaza]

The evidence is also subjective though lol

I stated many reasons why ice types are better and you said no those aren't reasons lol why again its all subjective

[dull ibex]

i mean yes and no

no you stated reasons ice type POKEMON could be good

which im not disagreeing I think a9 is fantastic

and bundle is still great so is baxcalibur

[brisk plaza]

No I stated why they are and how the ice specific buffs helps mitigate that weakness lol

The weakness of ice type as a whole lol

[dull ibex]

but it doesnt

it doesnt change the typing itself

[brisk plaza]

That's opinion lol

It buffs the weakness

[dull ibex]

ok this part is not an opinion

[brisk plaza]

Correct?

[next stump]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-getting-us-nowhere-agent-connelly-agent-bill-sphinx-kyle-broflovski-stan-marsh-gif-21682635

[dull ibex]

no that isnt correct

[brisk plaza]

Snow doesn't buff def?

Dang ok lol have a good one

[dull ibex]

its not ABOUT STATS

[brisk plaza]

Nope it's about buffing a typing weakness making it better lol

[dull ibex]

IT DOESNt

my god man think about this for two seconds

[brisk plaza]

Have a wonderful day

[dull ibex]

ice is weak to fire fighting steel and whatever else

how does snow change that?

[brisk plaza]

So again fire is weak too water lol

[dull ibex]

right and fire types lose to water types alot of the time

and ground types

[brisk plaza]

That's not a typing weakness lol

[dull ibex]

YES IT IS

[brisk plaza]

That's super effective chart

[dull ibex]

THAT IS TYPE WEAKNESS

[brisk plaza]

Lolololol why im saying so fire is bad cause it's weak too ice

[dull ibex]

its not

fire isnt weak to ice

[brisk plaza]

So ice is bad cause it has super effective weakness?

[dull ibex]

also fire is good because of its resists, offensive power, and immunity to burn

[brisk plaza]

That's opinion though you may think thsts why fire is good others may think differently

[dull ibex]

they'd be wrong im sorry

[brisk plaza]

So exactly like I saud

[dull ibex]

if ice had one had major weakness

i'd agree with you

[brisk plaza]

Agree to disagree

[dull ibex]

but it has 4 and only resists itself

exactly now im curious what does fire resist

Steel, Fire, Grass, Ice, and Fairy? that's nuts

5 prominant types

maybe I have to move up fire type lmao

I forget chien pao is ice ngl

[mighty stump]

Ice is the worst defensive type because its the most premium offensive type

[charred saddle]

fighting, fire, steel, rock

all very common typing moves

[dull ibex]

that makes sense

[dense lion]

There’s a reason why ice is the only weather with dual screens associated with it

[dull ibex]

I still believe all of that isnt enough for ice as a typing personally

I think they made it too bad defensively

[gloomy crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/hoshinova-moona-moona-hoshinova-vtuber-hololive-gif-22404413

[dull ibex]

hello

[dense lion]

Idk, def boost in snow is a pretty big buff

Imagine caly ice in snow

[dull ibex]

yeah but this doesnt fix the special attacks

[gloomy crescent]

Do I see people talking about the ice type

[dull ibex]

yes I think it sucks as a typing

[gloomy crescent]

Better not be dissing it

[gloomy crescent]

...... weawy

[charred saddle]

caly ice is annoying even without the snow buff

[dull ibex]

Ice type isnt good, Ice type pokemon are great

[dense lion]

Imo phys attackers are a bigger threat, since your own attacker can always consider assault vest

[gloomy crescent]

Okay I will say that's true

[dull ibex]

Still I think the mons themselves are normally either BAD or good inspite of the typing

also ice type pokemon themselves also kinda suck

[dense lion]

Ah, I can agree with that

[dull ibex]

its just four main ones that are actually meta

[gloomy crescent]

I like the ice type as of snow

[dense lion]

Usually the good ice types need good abilities or movepools to thrive

[dull ibex]

I don't even hate that people like ice types or the ice typing its whatever

[gloomy crescent]

And I like winter

[dense lion]

Unlike fairy, the typing makes the Pokémon

[dull ibex]

but to claim its good inspite of every bit of evidence I provide makes me upset

[gloomy crescent]

Iron bundle is like the only good ice type in competitive

[dull ibex]

Baxcalibur, Chien Pao, A9

[next stump]

https://tenor.com/view/chien-pao-yippee-jump-happy-dance-gif-27595010

[gloomy crescent]

Oh ye

[dense lion]

I still maintain that ice as a type got better after snow change

[dull ibex]

Chien pao absolutely would be alot better without ice imo

[gloomy crescent]

A9? What dat?

[dense lion]

It’s not top tier, it’s just no longer awful

[dull ibex]

I do not agree, but we can agree to disagree

[gloomy crescent]

I like its typing

[dull ibex]

I think its D tier instead of F now

it went from second worst to just kind bad

[dense lion]

That’s fair, I can understand that

[willow vault]

Any know any good Landorus-I ev spreads?

[gloomy crescent]

Whats all of your opinions on bug types

[dull ibex]

they suck

[dense lion]

Now if we can get better poison types

[gloomy crescent]

I hate them very much

[dull ibex]

bug type sucks and the pokemon match the type

there's one good bug type and its volc

[dense lion]

Bug types can only get a buff if u-turn was either changed to normal type, or restricted in availability

[gloomy crescent]

I hate that there aren't any good type combos with it

[dense lion]

Bug needed to resist fairy, imo

[gloomy crescent]

Snom being bug Ice ice I understand but bug?

[dull ibex]

frosmoth is ice bug no?

[willow vault]

I’d rather it resist ground

[next stump]

i think just 252/252

[gloomy crescent]

Ye

[willow vault]

Aight thanks bro

[dense lion]

Bug already resists ground, no?

[dull ibex]

garbo typing

[willow vault]

Really?

[dense lion]

They resist each other iirc

[gloomy crescent]

Lando is quad weak to ice

Like most pseudos

[willow vault]

Yes

[dull ibex]

ice is really good as a coverage move typing tbh

[willow vault]

Indeed

[dull ibex]

ice beam and other ice moves are great coverage

[willow vault]

Why you mentioning this?

[gloomy crescent]

I wanted to say dat a good legendary gets dominated by a bad type

[willow vault]

Ah

[dull ibex]

yeah type chart be like that

[gloomy crescent]

Why tho

[dense lion]

That’s how GF likes to attempt balance

[willow vault]

Bug should resist dragon and fairy for memes

[gloomy crescent]

Why is it flying type

[dull ibex]

cloud

[gloomy crescent]

Ground should have a weakness to dragon

[dull ibex]

no

[willow vault]

Nah

[gloomy crescent]

Mudbray is a donkey

[dense lion]

I’m glad you guys aren’t determining type balance lol

[dull ibex]

make every type resist every type

[dense lion]

Deal

[gloomy crescent]

💀

[dense lion]

Normal stands supreme

[gloomy crescent]

Normal is like the one in the corner chilling

[dense lion]

All single type pokemon insta-F tier

[gloomy crescent]

😢

[willow vault]

If I was making a type I’d make it weak to dragon, resist fairy and hit steel for super effective (it can do other things these are the most important) to balance out fairy and give steel another weakness

[willow vault]

Torkoal?

[gloomy crescent]

Snorlax?

[willow vault]

Xerneas?

Groudon?

[gloomy crescent]

Ye xerneas has geomancy thats insane

Kyogre

[dense lion]

Only in the scenario that all types resist every other type, then taking double damage is pretty rough

[gloomy crescent]

Mewtwo why the hell did I say this I hate him

[dense lion]

I was exaggerating though lol

[willow vault]

Sad for me because I’m restricted mons formats Yvetal is my favourite legendary

[gloomy crescent]

Oh

[gloomy crescent]

I cant choose

[willow vault]

Why not?

[gloomy crescent]

I like loads of legendarys

I'll make a list of em

[dull ibex]

groudon 🥰

[willow vault]

My top 3 in order are Yveltal, Lunala and Groudon

[gloomy crescent]

Xerneas latias zacian calyrex ice rider lunala and miraidon no particular order maybe latias in first

[willow vault]

That’s quite a few

[gloomy crescent]

You mentioned lunala and I remembered how much I like it

[willow vault]

I love it’s ability and design

[gloomy crescent]

I forgo suicune

I always though that thing was an ice type

[willow vault]

I prefer Entei to Suicune

However I will say I love Walking Wake and really want to it to be a legal Pokémon to use in vgc

Nah can’t to do my Yveltal so dirty

It would be ruined

If I were to make a legendary it would be Rock and Fire with Water Absorb

It’s spread would be something like 120/110/130/60/100/80

It’s all good, I’m just trying to type while not burning my food

No

It’s not balanced

[dull ibex]

80 hp 130 def 140 spdef?

[willow vault]

Too strong

[dull ibex]

that is INSANELY broken

140,130 attack stats???????

[willow vault]

It only gets checked to Zacian and we don’t need that around again

[dull ibex]

oh its 60 attack and 100 special attack?

this thing is too strong for an unobtainable final boss tbh

alright man chill out

I misread the spread its not a biggie

not quite

[willow vault]

Also, do we mostly agree that we need a good rock move that can’t miss, it’s crazy how no good physical rock moves have 100 accuracy

With a better ability and crazy offensive typing

[dull ibex]

its more bulky then zamazenta actually

zama has a little more hp

[willow vault]

Choice scarf?

[dull ibex]

zamazenta is not 145 145

its 115 in both defenses

oh yeah look at that

zamazenta is crazy bulky

[willow vault]

Yeah

[dull ibex]

too bad it sucks 😔

[willow vault]

It is quite bad

[dull ibex]

im just gonna shut my mouth im not good at balance

[dull ibex]

meanwhile zacian:

[willow vault]

I know right

[dull ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/dogs-doge-dancing-dance-dancing-doge-gif-20954111

zacian chillin as it breaks another game

[willow vault]

It’s mostly a combination of the ability and offensive typing, if you give it scarf it would be wild

[dull ibex]

why make an unobtainable mon anyways?

[willow vault]

Tailwind then

[dull ibex]

I just don't get the purpose personally

it feels like robbing the audience a bit in a theoretical game

I can't stand that eternamax is a thing

its not about one shotting

[willow vault]

You boost it with dark attacks?

• it’s bulk it won’t die

[dull ibex]

it hits well and takes hits

[willow vault]

Think about it in doubles

Put it next to a dark type and it gets constant sp attack boosts

[dull ibex]

ok then why do you care about balance at all?

[willow vault]

I’m aware, but I’m showing it’s not balanced

[dull ibex]

if its not obtainable and you will not consider it in other settings why care about balance?

im p sure crephace is comparing it to other legends no?

or atleast considering them

[willow vault]

Entei

[dull ibex]

🤭

[willow vault]

Woah

[dull ibex]

bro you did not

[dense lion]

Imo this seems okay, aside from the fact that I don’t like adding immunities through abilities. Biggest thing for me would be the moveset, if you give it calm mind/moonblast, that sounds like a rough fight

[willow vault]

Now we got problems

[dull ibex]

lando t is a nobody legendary lmao

[willow vault]

I hate Lando-T

Lando-I is way better (copium)

[dull ibex]

i've realized lando t is overhated tbh

[dull ibex]

this is just wrong

[willow vault]

I know 😞

[willow vault]

I just like Lando-I

[dull ibex]

then you need to make it better yeah

Just don't make it impossible to kill 🙂

[dense lion]

Is this the only Pokémon the boss will have, or is it going to be on a team

Because if it’s on a team that chips down the player’s team, that’ll be ROUGH

Also idk if you’re considering level capping the player or not

Because overleveling is the ultimate trump card for the player

[dull ibex]

seems fine as a checkmate

oh you made the fight a joke then tbh

[willow vault]

Yeah you kinda did

[dull ibex]

lost turns are a death sentence in pokemon

[dense lion]

Oh occasional disobedience, buff up the stats and bulk in that case LOL

[dull ibex]

yeah

this went from unbalance to an absurdly easy fight

the thing is in a pve context players will have EVs

(accidental or not)

[dense lion]

Leftovers on an NPC imo isn’t great, but I guess it boosts some bulk

[dull ibex]

occasional disobeying is always bad

look at slaking or regigigas lmao

[dense lion]

Imo max EVs in hp and def with t1 calm mind would make it a tough fight but not impossible

[dull ibex]

could sweep an unprepared player

Wuh

[willow vault]

Huh

That’s wild

[dull ibex]

It clears your progress?

That is an awful thing to do imo

[willow vault]

That’s like forcing someone to hunt for a perfect iv enamorous therian, you don’t do that

[dull ibex]

🤨

[willow vault]

Who would do that?

I’m sure glad Pokémon would never force us to do that

[dull ibex]

Losing a fight and having to start over sucks

[dull ibex]

They dont.

[willow vault]

No the enamorous comment

[dull ibex]

Unless it's a roguelike

[dull ibex]

Yeah they dont

[willow vault]

The only way to get enamorous is to beat all of Pokémon legends arceus, to get the correct Iv you then transfer to Pokémon sv to check

It’s like 20 hours for 1 attempt

[dull ibex]

I just caught one and bottle capped it

Pokemon uranium probably has a losing cutscene not a safe wipe

[willow vault]

You need min speed and min attack for the therian form it’s a trick room sweeper

[dull ibex]

I mean you don't need it

It's optimal but you don't have too necessarily

[willow vault]

You do for speed minimum

[dull ibex]

Interesting

Idk so far this fight sounds very unappealing

I spend 20 hours in a theoretical fan game I forget to heal I lose

That's 20 hours I don't get back

[willow vault]

It’s all gone

Like Pokémon brick bronze

[dull ibex]

Or it's way too easy if they just don't act every other turn

A fan game?

That is unusual but neat

[willow vault]

I got into Pokémon in 2011 (I was 6), playing on my sisters friends ds, I got hooked and have played since

[dull ibex]

I was 2010 at 12?

Hold on I can't math

[willow vault]

Got into competitive in 2022 (end of sword and shield) and have struggled since

[dull ibex]

12

[willow vault]

You were 2010 years old in the year 12, damn

[dull ibex]

LMAO

I started with platinum

[willow vault]

I first played heart gold, my first owned game was Pokémon black

[dull ibex]

I've been playing comp since SWSH series 1 or 2

[willow vault]

Nice

Favourite Pokémon?

I think you can guess mine

Good guesses guys

It’s Sandshrew alright I know it was tough to guess

[dull ibex]

In comp or general

[willow vault]

Either

[dull ibex]

In comp uh probably mane until restricted

Overall is samurott no doubt

[willow vault]

I will say Escavalier is probably my 2nd favourite, it’s just really cool

[dull ibex]

Samu is peak

[willow vault]

Truly

Do you like Hisuin-Samurott more or less?

[dull ibex]

More

[willow vault]

Nice

[dull ibex]

Ye

[dense lion]

I’m late to the convo, but losing cutscene and crash seems appropriate, no save wipe

[nocturne holly]

The fuq

it looks so funny

[gloomy crescent]

My favourite is one of those legendarys or glaceon

[bold geode]

Aight what happened while I was gone

[keen karma]

What

[keen karma]

Nothing important

[bold geode]

Ah

I'm using my right thumb again thank fuck

Feels weird to type on phone though cuz there's still like a scab right on my thumb so

[brisk plaza]

I started in 96 with a Japanese Gameboy and Japanese copy of green lol

[dull ibex]

Me being based

[bold geode]

Bullshit

[dull ibex]

It's business as usual

[nocturne holly]

Fr

[next stump]

local game store 10 minutes from my house is starting up locals soon 🙏

[keen karma]

W

[nocturne holly]

w

[dense lion]

Sure

[dull ibex]

Yeah

Idiot (inside joke)

[nocturne holly]

redzle dazzle 💀💀

[dull ibex]

Ye

[nocturne holly]

why

[dull ibex]

Yes

[bold geode]

[dull ibex]

I said what I said

[nocturne holly]

🤓that is so unbelievabley, inexcruciably, IMDb

[nocturne holly]

I’d rather be famous instead

[dull ibex]

Cringe

Imagine wanting that much attention

[nocturne holly]

I want so much fucking attention

all that attention is fucking mine

[dull ibex]

Honestly since becoming an adult being famous is so unappealing

Those people seem MISERABLE

[tidal blade]

whats the best tera type for iron hands? Ive been using grass but i feel there could be something better especially because amoonguss isnt getting the most usage rn

[dull ibex]

Fire

Is great too

[charred saddle]

water is also nice, but you do lose the IH matchup

[nocturne holly]

Ik monke loves dragon

[charred saddle]

(?) but dragon doesnt solve the fairy typing weaknesses

[nocturne holly]

its for the pon

hand is pretty good into flutter anyways

resisting fwg is huge

[charred saddle]

sure

[nocturne holly]

ok

is that sarcastic?

cuz that was not needed

[minor fossil]

what's fwg

[charred saddle]

pon, which pon are most used. fire water. then ehy not just water tera(?)

[next stump]

they usually both carry wood hammer or horn leech

[nocturne holly]

yea lol

even if its not just pon

resisting fwg is huge and useful

why do you think tera dragon dengo is a thing

[charred saddle]

im not even saying tera dragon is bad

[nocturne holly]

then what are you sayinh

[charred saddle]

im just pointing out that tera dragon IH doesnt solve the fairy weaknesses

[charred saddle]

does this seemed like im saying its bad(?)

[nocturne holly]

and i pointed out that hands is good into flutter anyways and things a like

whenever you see flutter do you immediately tera?

[charred saddle]

ill just leave it here

[nocturne holly]

i fucking hate these ass predictions

and they fucing work
tera fairy play rough into my dengo

bo3 anyone

[dapper crag]

Fire Water Grass, the starter typing gimmick

It's a popular idea that these typings gives your team an interesting way to switch in and out of weakness. Fire covers Water which covers Grass which covers Fire.

Another cycle is Dragon Fairy Steel

If your team can have a lot of these typings, you can play the defensive game pretty well (some call it balance)

[nocturne holly]

https://pokepast.es/9b7890045f73e27f what could i replace dengo with? it doesnt feel like its working on this team

[nocturne holly]

theres also dark psychic fighting

[dapper crag]

1st I hear this one

[nocturne holly]

yea tofu told me about it
fwg (starter core) dsf (fairylocke or smth like that) dpf (mystical or fantastical core)

[dapper crag]

That's an idea, Psychic looks too neutral offensively/defensively though

Cress runs Ice Beam as much as Psychic lol

[nocturne holly]

its a core

[wispy spade]

I thought it was dark ghost psychic

[nocturne holly]

nah

[wispy spade]

Vulpix is one of the few pokemon that can learn moves from all 3 but has none of the types

I read it in a fanfiction once

[nocturne holly]

Thoughts?

[dapper crag]

Yeah 1st time I hear about that core

[next stump]

i think you’re just using gholdengo wrong, if you want another special attacker you could try using Jamie Boyt’s team with Thundy-T

[nocturne holly]

How am I using it wrong?

I’ll send a replay of me using it that was a dumb question

[dapper crag]

Nasty Plot Gholdengo is a pretty popular setup on the Mon I don't think it's wrong at all

[nocturne holly]

no as in me using it

[dapper crag]

I wouldn't comment on someone playstyle personnally unless I've met them a few times

[nocturne holly]

that’s why he said probably

and I agree it’s hard to use

[dapper crag]

What is hard ? You setup Nasty Plot if you can or you fire off one of two moves + click Protect if you want to scout/stall no ?

[nocturne holly]

it’s situation dependent lol

[dapper crag]

That can be said for anything no ?

[nocturne holly]

I struggle with using dengo, am not using it as much as I want to and as effectively no?

[dapper crag]

ha in this way ok

yeah if you don't use nasty plot much I get it

[nocturne holly]

idk why I’m not good at it

I used to be good
Needs watch some replays

[dapper crag]

Must be the team if you're good at using it

Though you have a lot of support to enable the setup

[nocturne holly]

yea that’s what I’m saying

idk why it’s not working

[next stump]

I think the only way to actually give a clear answer would be to see replays of how you’re using it, but typically you want to do one of three things with it:

1. Leverage your supportive partner (redirection usually) to get off a Nasty Plot or two, then sweep

2. Leverage your partner’s offensive pressure to get off a nasty plot (you have them pinned into a position where they need to protect, switch, or focus the slot that is NOT Gholdengo)

3. Just straight up go for damage if you’re dealing super effective or even sometimes just neutral damage. Tailwind + MIR can nuke some teams, or tailwind + shadowball

You can also always use Tera to get up a free-ish plot

[nocturne holly]

Yea I’ll send replays
Thx for the tips

[gentle crag]

.begulajr. has given 1 Gen Rep to mlbd

[mighty stump]

Ngl

@nocturne holly

Run LO

LO NPlot feels so very good

[nocturne holly]

On dengo??

[mighty stump]

Imo its way better atm

things despite being bulkier are still skewed physically and are only necessarily specially bulky for immediate thresholds

LO Dengo picks up KOs very easily

[nocturne holly]

hmmmm

I’ll try it won’t hurt

[keen karma]

lo?

[dapper crag]

That's the item ''Life Orb''

[grave sable]

hi anyone got a good build for sinistcha? I got a 5iv one i wanna use

[dapper crag]

For a specific format ?

[grave sable]

any

it has a great moveset that allows it to be a great support pokemon and attacker

[next stump]

trick room/shadow ball/matcha gotcha/rage powder is nice

[grave sable]

hmm what stats would it have?

[next stump]

These are common spreads used

[dapper crag]

Just note that this for the Double format. In Singles it is used as a more wallbreaking/stall Pokemon with Calm Mind/Strenght Sap with Matcha Gotcha/Shadow Ball

[grave sable]

hmmm

[nocturne holly]

-calc 537/2

[gentle crag]

Result: 268.500000

[nocturne holly]

Is it worth making booster spe moon outspeed regieleki?

[next stump]

how much investment does it take

[keen karma]

do you do friendlies

[next stump]

not really but i’m not against it

i don’t really play the game a lot hahaha

unless i’m prepping for a tournament

[nocturne holly]

-calc 278/1.5

[gentle crag]

Result: 185.333333

[nocturne holly]

-calc 185*1.5

[gentle crag]

Result: 277.500000

[nocturne holly]

-calc 187*1.5

[gentle crag]

Result: 280.500000

[smoky hawk]

I plan on being there

[nocturne holly]

244 jolly

I don’t think it’s worth with that much investment

[keen karma]

how do i sign up

[charred saddle]

eleki isnt that common so i wouldnt think its worth putting that much EVs

[next stump]

https://rk9.gg/tournament/PO2b9WxRw223EMcjpOaW

[nocturne holly]

lo dengo is insane

Dengo feels good on my team now

I’m way more open to bringing it

[keen karma]

ah imma sign up for charlotte

[next stump]

charlotte signups probably go live in a week or two

[dapper crag]

Problem solved, gz

[nocturne holly]

lol

[mighty stump]

I mean Jolly Moon is nice to naturally outspeed Modest Manes if you plan on switching

[tepid mirage]

Me when the

[karmic temple]

Finally trick room gimmicks be working

[mighty stump]

I feel like the word gimmick is being misused here

[dapper crag]

Trick Room tend to attract the attention no ? It's very telegraphed.

[dapper crag]

GZ

[mighty stump]

Not how gimmick is used here

[dapper crag]

isn't gimmick something that attracts attention because it's going be doing the same thing over and over

like mausape or trick room

[mighty stump]

Well if you wanna use the dictionary definition.

The context here is for VGC play

Gimmicks are strategies generally used more for "fun" and are incosistent in nature

[karmic temple]

Ur right its not being used correctly

[dapper crag]

Really, Moxie Boosted was considering TatsuDozo a gimmick

[mighty stump]

and MoxieBoosted is wrong

🤷‍♂️

[dapper crag]

So the definition varies from player to player is what I get

[mighty stump]

If you wanna say that 🤷‍♂️

[dapper crag]

Well you say something and someone else says something different

They're both valid imo

[tepid mirage]

🤝

[dapper crag]

ok so tatsudozo would be gimmicky but also can work without relyling on the duality they share

which is sensical

[mighty stump]

I guess the gimmick aspect of DozoGiri would be that theyre a unique strategy that can seemingly look fun towards new players due to its "raid boss" appearance

But DozoGiri is consistent and requires far better win-con identification and decision making than other team archetypes like Balance would

Calling it a gimmick would be more inaccurate than accurate when things like Weezing/Slaking exist

To me it just lies in the consistency of the matter and the dependancy of the idea

[dapper crag]

Aren't unique abilities sort of gimmicky (like if you want them you need that one entity to be on the team)

[mighty stump]

Again, if its for the attention-attracting definition, then sure

[dapper crag]

Like Mimikyu's disguise

[mighty stump]

But some unique abilities like CoStar aren't used cause theyre also attached to inherently inconsistent Pokemon from the level of powercreep

[dapper crag]

Yeah something gimmicky doesn't mean it's good for sure

[mighty stump]

Not really, that's just what it is, a unique ability

Ghost/Fairy is already an amazing defensive/offensive typing

Disguise adding essentially free bulk to a frail Mon

No real extra execution needed barring existing

Again, in this context, I mainly refer to things that are inconsistent by nature built by people who tend to focus on the "fun casual" experience rather than using things that win

or has a better chance of winning

[dapper crag]

I see, that's a very niche definition for Pokemon but it makes sense

Thank you for your insight

[mighty stump]

Its why my core tenet would be Consistency in both results and teams

Like another aspect I believe in relating to gimmicks, is that they tend to fail when telegraphed

Like OTS games

[keen karma]

What

Its fucking braindead

[mighty stump]

Lol

That's what players who don't play DozoGiri say

Even if it has "braindead" aspects that;s simply because the opponent didnt consider them during teambuilding

[keen karma]

It made climbing for me so ez

Tru

[mighty stump]

Go play actually good players with Dozogiri and you can realise just how much room for error there is without properly planned turns

[chrome knot]

ok so

[keen karma]

Ive been trying man

[mighty stump]

And no, I don't mean CTS Bo1 cart ladder

[chrome knot]

ive made a decision

[keen karma]

Ive been doing bo3

[dapper crag]

Why would CTS Bo1 cart ladder not be good players ?

[mighty stump]

Most of them just aren't, and the format is inherently inconsistent and terrible for actually good practice

Unless youre like

In the top 1k of ladder

You don't get good quality matches

Its like playing Bo1 ladder on showdown and staying in sub-1400s

Either you run into stuff you'd never realistically run into

Or you run into players who play extremely braindead so its not a good quality match

Sure, you can use it to build bad habits irregardless

But the volatility of the turns as well just make it kinda shitty

[dapper crag]

lol

[mighty stump]

But for pattern recognition, and just filtering through stuff for with your teams

[keen karma]

Tru

[mighty stump]

To see if they can accomodate a variety of situations

Its useful in those aspects

and also solidifying the foundation of your team

But from a purely quality match pov

[dapper crag]

I find games to be tough in Master Ball right now

[mighty stump]

pointless

Its why I barely play in-game ladder unless its end of season cause I have limited time and showdown is faster/more efficient/higher quality

if I had the time

Id rather just play in limitless tours

But those are not timezone friendly for me

[dapper crag]

Been trying my luck at pushing this season early and it's rough

mostly same teams over and over with little variation

[mighty stump]

Either theres points in your team that needs overhauling or you need to review your matchups into it

[dapper crag]

I'm doing well so far

I'm 41-17

rank 478 right now

just games are tough

I look at the matchup when I get the game

I've been theorycrafting what I could change on the team, but every piece seems to be key in most games and I struggle dropping 2 Mons

[mighty stump]

Then either improved piloting or theres points in the matchups that need, not necessarily an overhaul, but streamlining

[dapper crag]

What do you mean, this is not ringing a bell to me

[mighty stump]

Either you need to start making higher level calls/team needs better role compression for streamlining your matchup gameplan if theres no real changes to be made to the team

[dapper crag]

I made the team with Justin, so I'm not super confident in changing anything lol

Iron Hands Amoonguss Flutter Mane Heatran Landorus-Therian Urshifu-Rapid-Strike

[charred saddle]

tofu, anyone can make rentals right?
is there any like, things or stuffs i should explain or insert?

for rental teams channel

[chrome knot]

is
Lilligant Torkoal
Armarouge Indeedee
Dondozo Tatsugiri
too much for one team

[mighty stump]

Yeah just follow the format

[mighty stump]

No it seems like a fairly functional 2-2-2

Just id be worried about interactions between Torkoal and Dondozo since the Water STABs can be weakened

Like

[charred saddle]

but isnt tatsu dozo might have trouble under sun

nvm im lagging

[mighty stump]

If you hvae any short notes

itll be nice and preferred

and please take a nice screenshot

Like, theres a 6 hour slowmode on the channel

So if you screw up the post with the image you;re gonna have to redo it in 6 hours

[charred saddle]

should i make a docs for it or(?)

[mighty stump]

Nah no need

Idk why everyone else did docs, I just do it cause I have a blog and I share it in other social media

[chrome knot]

i think itll work i just need a base of like

what makes a good turn

im so lacking in the knowledge department

[mighty stump]

I think the Indeedee/Arma/DozoGiri part can work

I dont know what would properly complete that 2-2-2 core that wouldnt necessarily hate each other

Like Bundle/Glimmora perhaps

[charred saddle]

i mean docs help with explaining in depth stuff, i dont think people would like to scroll past a text wall of explanation lol

[mighty stump]

Chien/Pult since Pult likes not having to deal with priority/Chien-Pao likes priority

[mighty stump]

I suppose, but its still going to be a wall of text inside a document anyways

Im the only one with pretty pictures

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 887: Dragapult

Types

Dragon/Ghost

Abilities

Clear Body, Infiltrator, Cursed Body (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

88/120/75/100/75/142

Total

600

SableyeBot version 4.24.2

[mighty stump]

c:

[chrome knot]

what the

[mighty stump]

Oh yeah, Banded Pult

[chrome knot]

i thought pult was special for some reason

[charred saddle]

yeah right, ill make docs at least haha

[chrome knot]

that bitch FAST

[dapper crag]

I've been thinkin about Thundurus-Incarnate

[charred saddle]

pult breaking swap is annoying

[mighty stump]

This seems pretty standard balance to me so

[charred saddle]

it hits pretty hard and reduce atk by 1

[mighty stump]

You met a pult running BSwipe?

Weird

[charred saddle]

yep

it dies to moonblast flutter, not a problem but its annoying

[dapper crag]

Yeah that's what I was going for, teched in speed control on Flutter Mane and Landorus and everything is super slow/bulky vs their normal spread

[charred saddle]

iirc it does 2 move, bwsipe and phantom force. idk rest of the move

[mighty stump]

Usually

Its

Well right now its Tera Blast/Phantom Force/Dragon Darts/+1

[charred saddle]

tera blast pforce protect and dragon thing

[mighty stump]

It gets U-Turn

You can run Tera Blast with Ghost

Cause thats what it ran most recently

Back then it was Tera Steel

To deal with and resist Flutters

[charred saddle]

its just funny and surprising to see it bswipe on harc

rock slide hits but doesnt get the potential ko on the opposing mane

[dapper crag]

Are you saying Dragapult gets Breaking Swipe ?

[charred saddle]

yeah it does right?

[dapper crag]

in gen 8 yes but it didn't conserve it in gen 9 according to bulbapedia

[charred saddle]

oh really?

hmm did i misremembered it

[charred saddle]

hmmm

probably misremembered it then mb

i remember it being a dragon, that im pretty sure

[dapper crag]

I didn't know this stuff, I just learned what the move was lol

[mighty stump]

Are you really sure its not Dragon Darts 💀

[charred saddle]

fuck my brain doodoo

wait is dart hitting both mon?

[mighty stump]

It does

It also has an auto-redirect

if one slot protects, both hits go to one slot

[chrome knot]

Armadee, Dongiri, Chienpult
OR
Armadee, Dongiri, Glimbundle
@mighty stump

[mighty stump]

I like both

Hahahha

Like

ok

Glimmora Bundle imo can answer Chi-Flutter better

cause of Bundle being there for speed control nad Chi-Yu having to blow a tera immediately

which makes Dondozo's job a bit easier

and provides speed control alternative to TR into faster teams

[chrome knot]

oo

[mighty stump]

Chien-Pul has outright damage

[chrome knot]

and then i can play a more balance set

what is purpose of glimm

ive never seen it used properly idt

[mighty stump]

Lets you stall games with Spikes and Dozo's bulk

[chrome knot]

i see

oh dozo plays fine without tatsugiri?

[mighty stump]

Well

You still bring Tatsu

Lol

[keen karma]

tatsu is amazing without dozo

[chrome knot]

i know i know

[keen karma]

tatsu dozo is so hard to plan for

[chrome knot]

i need to consult like a coach or something bc experience is one thing yeah but there a level of understanding that can be achieved through peer to peer connections like that

half this makes me feel like a rock

[charred saddle]

oh, i might misremembered it as bswipe then. i remember it being dragon move and hit both mon

doodoo moment

[mighty stump]

lol

[charred saddle]

hey im new ok

only been playing for 2 months

[robust jackal]

That immediately makes me think of dragon energy actually

[charred saddle]

[robust jackal]

Oh but regidrago doesn't get phantom force lmao

[charred saddle]

ye

[robust jackal]

I just read up

[charred saddle]

nah, its me being doodoo

dont read it

dude then rocklide Harc doesnt get the mane ko from 75% range or so
the hell is that

[mighty stump]

Is it banded

Could be bulk mane

[charred saddle]

yep

[mighty stump]

I probably have the fattest Mane out there

[charred saddle]

banded 196 adamant

[mighty stump]

Oh, not Max?

[charred saddle]

no

[mighty stump]

y

[charred saddle]

i forgot why, i did some calcs

[mighty stump]

Have the calcs been relevant

[charred saddle]

hmm not that i remember whats the calc for, so idk

[mighty stump]

Time to go back to max attack

Lmao

[mighty stump]

Meh

[charred saddle]

lives 1 hit from boosted adamant drain punch IH

[mighty stump]

Yeah but if you calc'd that at 252+ its kinda irrelevant

Plus like

Its stilla 2HKO anyways

Cause you hvae intimidate

[charred saddle]

no thats with intimidate

no intim is guaranteed ohko

[mighty stump]

Yeah

But like

-1 252+ Atk Iron Hands Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arcanine-Hisui: 120-144 (70.1 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It never kills you

even with 0 bulk

[knotty mirage]

Is galarian articuno can be viable trick room setter ?

[mighty stump]

Booster Energy Hands doesnt exist

[charred saddle]

ig yeah, last time when i built this team, i calced it for booster iron hands somehow haha

[mighty stump]

So not really worth considering

[charred saddle]

its already on cart

and i think im fine with it for now, still picks up the needed ohko

[mighty stump]

196+ Atk Choice Band Arcanine-Hisui Rock Slide vs. 68 HP / 116 Def Flutter Mane: 93-109 (66.9 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO misses out on standard bulk flutter at 75

[charred saddle]

yeah, that explains it then

wait standard bulk is at 68 116?

[mighty stump]

well

sub standard

its higher generally now

cause theyre trying to live Icicle Crash

[charred saddle]

i did mine a bit in the opposite way,

i was thinking since hp and def started the same, might as well do more hp for sp def bulk

[mighty stump]

Wasting EVs here cause you have 4 stats invested

[charred saddle]

hmm im having no problem with it, since im getting the sp atk boost while getting some bulk

[mighty stump]

But you're wasting EVs lol

We need to exit the mindset of "it works fine anyways"

It starts becoming a habit

[charred saddle]

then what should i take off

[mighty stump]

If you tell me the thresholds I can make an optimised one