Meaningless

[trim jewel]

Honestly I believe that for something to exist there should be limitations that create it. Life is like a sandbox you decide your limitations freedom extc for example I believe that the only objective moral is that the moral thing is to do what you believe is moral its a limitation but this limitation helps me have a sense of guidance

I know I couldve explained this simpler

I believe that even those around you must have some kind of certainty they hold onto

From what ive seen youre a nice person you know You actually try to reason everyone elses actions around you. I dont think being an poc and being rude to everyone around you is the way youll be happy

[austere dagger]

You are right about the second part but I don't feel like a nice person. Way too many people told me that I am terrible. Exspecially at work people find me too silent or something like this and that I suck because i am "not one of the cool kids". But I think that cool is often times equal to mean. But when you are not mean you get fucked by everyone it seems

[noble crow]

Hey reading all of this I get your perspective, and though not for the same exact reasons, I thought about stuff similar to this too.

I struggled with the idea of "life", whether it's something unique to experience, or if it's purely deep and complex chemicals and things working as a machine, so complex that I'm even fooled by it. This led into existential crisis's, spanning over periods of time I can't even fully remember (thinking about meaning, good/bad, and what it means to live), but It led me to a sort of realization.

You are right in a way, that we are chemicals and materials put together to live day to day in some specific way, and that life in the grand scheme of everything, it's meaningless. Our universe, based on what we know at least, will slow its expansion and die out, leading to the death of everything we know pretty much. A celestial graveyard, and regardless of how it ends up happening, it's still going to end. You've got a good grasp on things, but I believe you could be missing something, that something being the thing I realized.

Life and reality itself is something that we are yet to fully comprehend, and while we have a lot of information and discoveries, we don't know the true nature of what reality is itself. It could be something we may find out to know, or it may not be, and what we do know is that reality is our brains version of reality to comprehend, though it still doesn't fully explain what reality and life is itself. Knowing this, that there is a major uncertainty of discovering the truth of both, that means that there could be more than purely just chemicals (which are I'd say the building blocks), as consciousness and self-awareness are a much more nuanced topic/story (we don't know the truth of either as well).

On top of that, while life is meaningless in the grand scheme of EVERYTHING, it doesn't mean that it has no meaning in some aspect at all. For there to be meaninglessness, there must be meaning, otherwise it wouldn't just be meaninglessness, and in the grand scheme of everything that makes it seem pretty vast. Sure we will not live for all of it, maybe even get cut short, but it doesn't take away the meaning that we're able to find within it and to value it for ourselves. The meaning of "life" is purely a subjective thing, as you are allowed to find value and meaning in whatever you feel like, regardless of "good" or "bad". Those two ideas of light and dark, are societal constructs, an idea/rule set that we set for ourselves. Despite this we still have people who rebel against these ideals, and do stuff generally considered to be "bad", but outside of our planet, there's nothing that proves whether what we did was inherently "good" or "bad". Now as a member of society, I obviously wouldn't suggest to find meaning in something we would consider bad (like murder for example), though that's just my morals and spin on life, as regardless of what it is, you're able to find value in whatever you find to see value in, and I can't stop someone inherently from losing that value. This all means you can find that meaning too, that you and anyone else is perfectly and equally capable to find meaning in ANYTHING.

I understand though, especially with very factual thinking, that it doesn't seem too great to live life, whether sometimes or even most of the time. It really does feel hopeless, especially when that existential stuff comes in, but it doesn't mean it should end. Think about life like a movie, a long story with whatever kinds of ups and downs, with every movie being different in some way. regardless of what it is, the movie will end eventually, and you can't change that it has a set time.

Now just cause its gonna end, and that no matter what you do it'll be meaningless cause it's gonna end, does it mean it should end? I say no, and that's cause that'd be missing the point of the movie. It's something to watch, to feel, to enjoy, and is something to be there and ride along for. Sure it will end, but you're there to enjoy it. Life is like a set of movies in a way, and not all of them are bad, though sometimes it still can be. I believe you may have just gotten a bad hand for a lot of your life, and that's gonna suck regardless, but it doesn't mean that it's bound to be bad (as understandable that is to believe), and suicide wont fix it. Sure it might be a solution in a way, but it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem, and is it really worth risking to lose everything you currently know/love and ever will know/love in life?

I believe that with the uncertainty's of not knowing what life is truly, even with the factual information we have, we're still living in the unknown to a degree, not knowing what reality is. But due to that uncertainty, it makes we wonder whether to adhere to the idea that "life is meaningless, because the grand scheme of everything is meaningless" or whether to "Understand that life is meaningless in the grand scheme of everything, but to find meaning anyways in the smaller things, and to enjoy the ride as much as I can", and I wanted to find meaning.

These uncertainty's will always give us an idea that some things in life/reality are a gamble, but it equally makes everything a gamble. So since you're living in uncertainty, I'd say just go for it cause it's a gamble anyways, so you might as well stick along and enjoy it.

Like I said, I think you've been given a bad hand, but I don't think it will be all bad, cause for there to be darkness there must be light, and you will see that light I can guarantee that. So hold onto that stuff, and I hope things get better man.

Sorry for the long yap sesh, I'm hella tired, but by the time I realized I was too deep into it to leave. If I missed anything or had any holes in my points, I'll do my best to fill the gaps, cause I probably mightve left sum out (if at all).

[austere dagger]

How do you deal with getting screamed at at the workplace for saying a word someone does not associate like you do? How do you live a life in which everyone is cheating at some point and always blames you eventhough you were actually honest about things. You can even admit your wrongdoings but people hate that. They only want to hear what's fun and good. Exspecially when there have been rules it is better to destroy all rules than to align with the rules... So why the hell should I even try at this point? Everything is meaningless and I can't do shit about it... Yes, I am pessimistic and so on... Seriously speaking... I had this relationship and it fucked up my perception of right and wrong... Everyone says to me that she is hella toxic and so on but she and her friends say the same about me. I tried to do what is according to science healthy and good and so on but every time I was told to be a cheater... I did not cheat. But being told to be a cheater made me enjoy talking to other people more because they weren't mean and calling me things that I wasn't. Well then again it is all just an illusion in your head and I have the shittiest of the people i know i guess.. cuz i am a social reject, my parents are divorced, my father was abusive, my mother kinda too but i forgive her because she does her best and idk but i feel like lots of people just talk badly about me though i dont do anything badly to them i guess besides existing and meanwhile i care about things such as climate change and so on but people don't according to their behavior but they always say so... Idk why i do anything anymore... I just wanna die because everything is soo meaningless and fucked up

Tbh I don't care if it ends... At this point I kind of hope that it ends because I hate myself and everything

[austere dagger]

Do you believe that my thoughts create my reality and therefore I shall simply not care about anything and only "manifest" what I desire?

[noble crow]

I get your point for sure dawg, but like I said before, It seems more so you've been dealt a bad hand in your life. You've gone through hardships throughout all of your early (still early) life, and continue to do so. That kind of hardship and struggle can get us into states of depression, anxiety, and honestly anything that'd make us want to leave this life we have, cause dying would hurt a little less than living.

Like I said though, suicide/death is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, as all of these things can change. This is coming from someone who deals with self hate, and has gone through the hardships of life more times than I can count, alongside viewing others who have gone through the same, if not worse than me, you, or anyone. Some people give in, lose their lives over things that matter so much to them, but its still possible to move on from those things. Did you know that most failed suicide attempts, whether intentional or not, result in people regretting even trying in the first place? That's because they found a better spot in life, and realized that despite all the hardships, they found a place where they could bare to live, and even want to.

We all have the possibility to reach new heights, and to be better than we currently are in the present, whether in regards to ourselves or our situations. For you, I'd say that you still have a chance to find yourself in a better spot within life, and even if its all meaningless in the grand scheme of everything, it doesnt mean that you cant find meaning in the life you have now at all.

You acknowledge that you're pessimistic, though while that's something to be worked on, how do you expect to see a world in a more positive light when you constantly focus on the worst aspects of it all. Sure there will always be pain in life, maybe more than others, though there is also love is beauty.

I'm sorry you've been hurt, but don't let it stop you man, as life and happiness are things worth cherishing, and once you find that for yourself you wont want to turn back, and trust me on that.

I know in these moments of hardships it's hard to see the positivity in things, just as if you were in a dark tunnel, with no light in sight. You're surrounded by darkness, walking endlessly and to what? As uncertain as everything is, and as much as it can give you tunnel vision to see the good sometimes, it ultimately will lead you to the light. It might be a dark ass tunnel, maybe even a long ass tunnel, but as long as you keep walking you'll reach the end and see that light, I can promise you that.

Things will turn around for you one day, as to when I cannot say, though life isn't all bad, and I don't expect it to be for you either. And to be frank, even though I barely know you, to one day come to the realization you took your own life, I'd still feel the weight of that even now. You'll meet good and bad people, and there will be people that will hate you no matter what you do in this world, though there is also so much good in others too. There's always somebody for someone, no matter who it is. Hell there's people that idolize the worst of us, and knowing both me and you are miles away from how bad they are, I think it's safe to say we both have a chance at meeting good people, or even finding love.

Trust me when I say that life is worth living, cause even through all the pain it will give, the suffering you will endure, it'll be worth it in the end to see the fruits of your labor, and to be happy in some way finally.

Finally for your last question, its a yes and no answer. Sure your mental space can dictate whether something can result positively or negatively, and thats well displayed in sports. The thing is that while it can lead to those things, it also has the chance to not, as the world and whatever happens within it is much bigger than just what we do.

So I'd say to an extent, especially if we let it controll us, it can result in something negative or positive, though in the end its circumstantial. On top of it all, there's so many factors in some things that our mental might be negligible in the final outcome, regardless of whatever it is.

I get your perspectives man, but whether for your sake, mine, or anyone else's, don't give up, not now or ever. It's okay to lay down, rest, grieve, and all of those things, just as long as you get up again. It's what makes us human, and there's no shame in that man.

I know you've got this shi

[austere dagger]

Thanks man. This was really beautiful to hear. I am scared of getting the life I dreamed of because people are mean yk? I am scared that once I am there, I will get lots of hate. I mean that is type of normal but then again: I am scared of it. Exspecially because I have been an asshole myself at times. And I deserve getting hate for that I guess? I don't know. I mean... No one really deserves hate but help to be better but idk... It is hard to not get angry at yourself sometimes

[austere dagger]

Tbh... I do find meaning in christian teachings. Not the nationalist christian teachings but the actual christian teachings. I do get hate for that. But I find comfort in that

[austere dagger]

But there is the issue yk? I think that Christianity tries to find "truth" and wants you to live according to "truth" but then it is said that there is no "free will" and I think that it might be like Nietzsche thought: maybe there is no good and no evil and it is all just an endless cycle that repeats itself. Either you are the slave and suffer what lots of christians do or you start to be the master and fuck hard and so on yk? But then there is also the preacher in his books and sometimes they win when the slaves listen to them. But idk... Looking at current politics, media and my own life i fear that nietzsche was right and i hate that

And I fear that he was right

And if he was it is really hard to gaslight myself into not thinking that he was right

[austere dagger]

But obviously like everyone I don't follow all teachings

[heavy knot]

ever like just drunk drive? feels awesome man itsl ike riding a cloud

you should do it

[untold fiber]

That’s not rlly funny tbh overused

[austere dagger]

I don't even know what the hell you wanna tell me. I know of people who do that shit. I really don't like humans anymore I guess

[austere dagger]

By the time of now, I simply don't know what to believe anymore and I don't feel like trusting anyone anymore

[tired cypress]

Fax some people do too rough and mean things that they deserve it

[austere dagger]

I am not sure on that... I think that if we have those people help it would be better but then again there probably is no free will and therefore it is an endless cycle of Power games and so on. I am scared of people due to that because you never know what they do/did... I know what i did so far and I am not proud of some of that...

I definitely try to improve myself and so on but it is really hard. It will be worth it though. However humans often do the same thing twice so i am scared of doing mean things again... I think that i was a terrible child and I just need to be better at everything

[austere dagger]

Like am I a gaslighter when saying that someone is overreacting for screaming at me eventhough I simply don't use my phone? Is it gaslighting to say that it is stupid to me to not be on your phone 24/7? What is gaslighting even supossed to mean now? Because to me it would mean to deny reality and just be an asshole but aren't we all assholes sometimes and since reality only exists in our heads how should it be real?

Like: is it cheating to talk to another person? Exspecially when you tell your partner about it and don't have any intentions besides talking? Who am I even allowed to talk to anymore? Sometimes I talk to people and I am "persuing" them and "trying to get with them"... But in my reality I just want to talk yk?

Sometimes I also just want to be nice

Or give a genuine compliment... But then it is already trying to flirt or smth? I don't know what is real and everything is meaningless and yes idk

I don't even exist

Right?

[copper ibex]

i mostly believe that anything is there for a reason and for a important reason the human brain is there to give awareness and to make the human body to function properly I'm not a medical expert though.it okay to feel that way we all go through hard times sometimes but at the end of the day there be a light at the end of the tunnel you can talk to me if you want.

[austere dagger]

I don't know what is even real yk? I don't know if I shall trust anyone anymore because everyone will betray you at some point probably... I guess that it is just human nature... At some point you simply speak badly about someone in public or shit like this... You can always try to help out others and so on but you will not get anything in return... You will simply become the "nice guy" but what if you simply think "how can I make myself valuable for the people around me?"... Ain't that what humanity is supossed to do? Create value to oneanother? Idk man... I want to write a book with all my past wrong doings that i am aware of and meanwhile speak out on all wrong doings by elites and so on but I am scared to do so

[untold fiber]

Writing a book would be a fire way to let out ur feelings

If u don’t want to, u don’t even have to show it to anybody

Do it for you

[austere dagger]

Sure

Tbh I can't take it anymore

Simply everything...

It all sucks and when I tell anyone from the family or so on people make fun of me

[austere dagger]

Can I ask you all one thing though? Do you think that truth exists?

[blazing inlet]

moral relativists when i hit them on the head

sudedntly they dont like it

[blazing inlet]

if it didnt then causality wouldnt exist

reality wouldnt work

what nihilists never usually understand that their outlook on life isnt a logical deduction of reason but their horrid state of the psyche they build up

a lot of it is fate of course, its just hot it iz 🚬

i had the same belief systems as u did when i was around 15

lost my sense of purpose due to health issues, got into addiction and gaming

kept me stuck, dissatisfied and anhedonic

only after i got clean i saw how much of it relates to your routine and daily choices, your view of reality depends on your health more than u think

iam using health as a broad concept, not just physical obviously

i would reccomend you getting into buddhism/zen, did help me

the practice is generally too hard to keep up, but u can look into the philosophy more deeply

it has nihilism in it but not one that leads to depression

more so a clear view of reality

also morality isnt as based in "artificial" social rules as most ppl thing

it just got rly trendy bcs of postmodernists and such

but theres a lot of good research indicating the foundations are highly biological

many vids from frans de waal on yt

its just when people see different enviroments with outliers they assume it must be arbitrary and "relative"

but in reality its just the same system evolving at a different rate within a different enviroment, that brings bilions of different factors

nevertheless the psychological outcomes will stay relevant and realiable

do u think that some islam guy graping a child will produce wellbeing in their society? the outcome is absolutely irrelevant if the society consideres it as immoral or moral within that context

the more moral societies are the most collectively evolved on a cognitive level, because they are able to recognize nuances in social judgment

the most immoral societies arent immoral because people behave due to some random set of social beliefs that is relative

they are immoral because people in power make it so and can get away with it

the best way to subjugate a society is to make them think, with force if necessary which it always is anyways, that their acts are indeed socially acceptable

in a sense social rules are artificial but not because of randomness and relativity but because of either genes, or decisions

depends on if the decisions are grounded in reaching truth, and most positive outcomes for everyone involved, or if they are based on people of power that want to bend their personal opinion for their gain to the collective ideal

in doing so they defy what would be a process of natural adaptation and progression

to add to the frans de waal comment, he found out very soon that animal groups that had atleast some basis of a moral foundation were functioning the best

which by logic makes sense completely, a species that fully selfish will not and cannnot continually progress, adapt and survive in a enviroment

they will be outcasted, killed or not reproduce

[austere dagger]

I am not a nihilist normally... I used to live along Christian values and simply think that everything is meaningless whenever someone acts like a douche with materialistic goods because otherwise I might insult him for his stupidity... But that way I stay calm

[austere dagger]

Thanks, this was really helpful.

[cyan iris]

🥀

[austere dagger]

Everything humans do is based on pattern recognition i guess? And when you acquire knowledge I guess you can get into other patterns?
Everything is also some type of evolution right? And the type of partner you get is also based on evolution?
I just know that it was said: turn yourself into the person that you would like to date... But I feel like I can't be that person... I can not even be happy anymore due to all the shit going on around me... Can anyone tell me if there is ever going to be a way of having good love in these days? I thought I had it but idk... Then again I do have to admit that i wasn't that good back then... Nowadays i might be better? However, i am scared... Idk whether i should talk to women... Exspecially because of feministic propaganda in germany... It really hits with the people over here to the point of women abusing their men and still being angles and so on...

I don't know what to believe anymore due to my last relationship... That's why I talk about this truth thing... And I am confused because over here, we used to have a beautiful language that worked perfectly but nowadays no one speaks it correctly anymore eventhough the language contained psychological barriers... Now that they are not used anymore I kind of lose my sense of right and wrong

It seems to me i don't know anything anymore and I most definitely don't know my place in the world anymore and don't know whether I can even have a relationship that lasts when I look at the amount of fucked up relationships from the generation of my parents... Besides almost all the girls my age i know of have a body count of 6+ and had even more partners at interest... Idk how likely they will stick to me or how good i find that... I heard that the more partners you had the less likely you are able to have a relationship that lasts...

Besides, I am so fucked because I am hyperaware and I see these little clues of attraction so easily and they instantly turn me off once they do it to other men while "being with me"

But they probably do them subconciously

But it bothers me so badly

I can not unsee them though

And I try to not be like this... I try to stay away from girls usually because I only want to be with my partner one day and so on but i am fucked up man...

And sure everyone is telling me to simply "have fun" or to not take it "so seriously" but I can not just not give a fuck without turning into nihilistic depression or shit like this... I try to find anything that gives me meaning... I try to live healthy, make myself valuable, learn a lot, be good to others, not spend too much money and work jobs to get money but yet I don't feel like I will be good enough because everything is so fucked...

I do sports and fighting... Am an artist... Work a job... Write books... Play the guitar and sing... Am into science... Live healthy... Don't eat up all that shitty propaganda... Am not that much into brainrot content... I am not completely stupid i guess?... I speak multiple languages and I can not not love I think... But why am I still not enough then? It is not that i am not enough... But it is how it is... The best part about it: if I don't follow every shitty fashion trend I am not attractive... But I hate the recent fashion... To me it looks like crazy shit... Surely it is artistic but it just sucks to me...

[hollow cloud]

Keep cultivate your garden, and puts aside for the moment the fact of having a partner.

In this way you will, either find nobody either find someone who fits you perfectly. I find these both better than finding someone who doesn't fit you

[hollow cloud]

I am not sure what they are talking about when they say "have fun" etc. But make just sure to be consistent with yourself.

[austere dagger]

True

Well, having fun refers to just hooking up to those people. Do you believe that when I put in all the effort to cultivate myself, that person "just shows up" or is it rather like still searching till dead end?

[hollow cloud]

Meet new people and keep going in your life

This person will probably show up

it's up to you to catch the occasion

[austere dagger]

Ok, thank you

You are really someone🫶🏼

[broken dragon]

I feel hollow

[austere dagger]

Why?

[austere dagger]

But besides... So the libet experiment says that there is no free will and everything that gives us pleasure is based on familiarity and pattern recognition. Meanwhile not having free will seems in line with most of modern neuroscience, human behavior studies of standford university and so on. So therefore I wanna ask, am I stupid for getting mad at my ex doing mean things and so on? I mean... It is just how it is yk? It is supossed to be this way I guess. So why do I even complain. Ok complaining doesn't do shit ever I know. But why should I feel hurt? It doesn't matter right? But I do feel hurt. Or generally. So we had this topic of moral behavior and cognitive decline and so on but seriously speaking: why do I care about any of this? Why does it mean anything to me when in reality nothing means anything I guess? But well that is just nihilism. There is meaning to be found in life. There is social and anti social behavior I guess. But still it feels so weird. Besides, I wonder whether my life is in control of corporations and I am brainwashed into believing I am in charge but meanwhile I am a slave or am I actually able to do things? Exspecially since I feel that I need to align with politics and the law and so on, I feel rather like a slave. I feel not capable of doing what the "self" wants but rather what the industry or the politics want.

[broken dragon]

I just feel empty. Like every day is the same and I don't have any notable skills. And I am really uncomfortable with my body

[hollow cloud]

The thing that particularly helped me was to really tell myself that we are animals, well there are already practically everyone who already know this but you have to feel it, we are not superior to them at least.
We are, however, conscious. Maybe it's a conditioned consciousness, maybe we're hanging on by a thread, but it's truly beyond us.
About laws are established for living in society. If you don't feel truly free, try the countryside. I find there are beautiful landscapes there; it calmed me.

About your ex, things are like they are, you are going to find probably a better person, all you just need is to cultivate your garden. That is to say, become a better person, the one you want to be. I won't say any stereotypical goals, the person you want to achieve depends only on you, not the general culture or idk what.

Become yourself and be proud of this, and things will come.

[hollow cloud]

Sorry to hear that, create a post in #1021080405895561246 so we talk about this more deeply

[austere dagger]

Well, but even if we are animals... We don't always behave like animals until we do.

That to me is weird part

[hollow cloud]

I didn't say it in a pejorative way and even less so in an hedonic way. I just say we are weird animals.

I meant that we are not gods, maybe we should care less about the control. Who are animals for you, is it even pejorative?
We are just humans, maybe determined, limited, maybe without meaning, but we must be content to move forward.

We follow patterns of recognition like you said, we are spirits living alongside the primitive.

[broken dragon]

That would be nice

[hollow cloud]

So even if we are the product of something inevitable, the fact of realizing it shows that we have not lost everything, and even more you won the game, be proud of who you are, no matter what disastrous process gave birth to you.

[hollow cloud]

Sure

You know how to create a post?

[broken dragon]

No

[hollow cloud]

Sorry i went sleeping since , i saw that you created one already, i will talk there

[broken dragon]

I feel like I'm trapped living a life I don't want

[hollow cloud]

What's up, what's happening?

[broken dragon]

I feel like I have no control

[hollow cloud]

Are there events who made you think that?

[broken dragon]

No

[hollow cloud]

Just a general feeling

[broken dragon]

Yes

[austere dagger]

Well, in theory you don't have control. However, it feels as if you are in control right?

[broken dragon]

Yes

[austere dagger]

Right now, I talk to some people at work and it is pretty alright. Try to find people to talk to and you might feel less terrible I guess?

But living is so weird

[broken dragon]

Ok

[nova loom]

Thoughts do create our reality because thoughts are all we have have the is no objective right or wrong but speaking of manifest I do not believe in that life comes at random

[austere dagger]

Everything is just thoughts though right? When I talk to you, I also just use my voice to give you information that are in line with my thoughts. Isn't that weird?
How do you mean "life comes at random"?
I read lots of books and for some random reason they appear in my daily life (which might be all coincidences)
And i have the same thing with adapting movie characters and even crazier:
I work at a place which I never applied for or anything. I just got there somehow because at some point I was asked to work there and the funny part is that I wanted to work at a place like this. Sadly, the place isn't as good as the idea of it but I might go somewhere else soon which will be more like that.

Even funnier: when I make myself useful by buying certain items that align with the things I want to create, I attract them without trying

[nova loom]

When I said life comes at random meant struggles and maybe the reason you attract things you think about it's because your more aware

[broken dragon]

I don't feel right

[austere dagger]

I feel like I am hyperaware

[broken dragon]

What do you mean?

[austere dagger]

I notice every incorrect word someone uses while speaking.
I notice every time when someone licks his or her lips.
I notice their pupils.
I notice how they touch their hair and all of that.
And for some weird reason everyone does everything wrong nowadays and still gets away with it.
It feels like "god is dead".

[broken dragon]

I kinda feel that too but to a much, much less degree

[austere dagger]

Yes, sadly I am hyperaware but all in all it is just nature I guess and therefore I need to accept it. My parents are divorced, my brother hit on an ex of mine and my now ex wanted to fuck my head up. That which we call "free will" might just be an illusion and I am feeling so weird.

[broken dragon]

I just noticed when people uses a word incorrectly

[austere dagger]

Yes, and you will most likely use that word incorrectly in the future too.

[austere dagger]

If there is no free will, why do I act as if I have free will

[crude smelt]

what is free will?you speak of chemicals in your original text.so its not H20 its more like 2 hydrogen molecules and one oxygen molecule.so you have a lot of falsely placed concepts placed in a doubtable schematic we call the mind.its plain and obvious that the more we act on our real thoughts the less we create thoughts.i think that is a place to start.just notice what happens when you stop to think.what are you avoiding?and why?wanna dive deeper than that question or layer of the psyche?be my guest...a small advice.all that is made up.is a lie.that includes society...borders...concepts...etc.so conventional ''thinking'' doesnt help when diving down.eventually.''reason itself'' ceases.and forced structures.fade away.as to why you are not allowed to be a ''bad person''?most likely because you are afraid of going to prison.or something like that.but theres also a reason you call it a ''a piece of ...''i dont think ''you'' really wanna be a ''bad person''i just think some aggresive behaviors or impulsive expressions scare people especially those half-dead mentally.and trigger defensive mechanisms.which in turn scare you.acceptance,honesty and explosive expressiveness will do the trick.you will learn a lot about yourself if you do these three.walk with caution though you are not all wise.no-one is.and thus you may not know if hurting others is something you really want.should you be wiling though to charge through everything in life in one mighty dash.then good luck i guess...society wont let you though.so be careful. (took me a while to actually take the risk of writting that one down) personaly though i cant tell you whats right or wrong.after all ...im not god...i DONT know EVERYTHING...but philosophicaly speaking thats how life is.when we THINK* about it.that is...(thought is a made up map and thus completely wrong)(dont confuse it with naming like calling a cow a cow hence we can plan*.

[austere dagger]

Wait what? Yes we have imaginary things in our head but all in all everything just happens and we shall just go along and not think about it?

The question I always ask myself is: does this increase my survival and the survival of the species and so on?

[crude smelt]

yes because active thinking is a mess

[austere dagger]

And looking at the modern world I don't think that lots of us should be here

[crude smelt]

indeed

[austere dagger]

I think that some stuff should be fun yk? And I think that it is wrong to cheat on someone... I fear that that stuff just happens yk? But I think that there actually is right and wrong since like one person already said in this thread: bad often times leads to cognitive decline and so on.

[crude smelt]

what if its the opposite

or more accurately

what if ''certain behavior'' lead to ineffective induction of natural cognition in survival

there is right and wrong

its just nothing we can understand by thinking

the closest i can get to it by thinking is that they are objects

otherwise we name action after action and create a clusterfuck

[austere dagger]

Man I just want love that lasts but nowadays everyone wants so much.

And I fear that due to survival mechanisms and a lack of free will that does not work out

Exspecially not as long as I am not a millionaire or shit like this

Meanwhile I want to enjoy life but it becomes really hard to travel and all the "fun" stuff when the planet is dying due to it yk?

Or animals

All these beautiful creatures and things

[crude smelt]

thats the reason i personaly strive for perfection

i might never get there

but the closer the better

i have accepted the world is a mess

and have to adapt

[austere dagger]

Yes, I work so badly and don't do drugs and so on. I did when I felt really shitty to cope but nowadays I try to learn thousands of skills, live healthy and read lots of books and surround myself with smart people.

[crude smelt]

sometimes though the road aint paved

you have to make it yourself

and sometimes it hasnt even been found

may i ask you a rather rough question?

[austere dagger]

Yes

[crude smelt]

what is meaning?

[austere dagger]

Something that feels good because it seems logical. Even things that feel bad can be meaningful because you can learn from them. But to me love is meaningful. And losing love shattered that "illusion" for me I guess? Meaning might also be your job, or being a "good person".

[crude smelt]

so you are saying that meaning is why you keep living.or anything that benefits.

so you seek a reason to exist.aka motivation

[austere dagger]

Yes, but when that was lost, I struggled with surviving

Exspecially because the world kinda dies I guess due to millionaires and so on

[crude smelt]

your story sounds like the concept 'dark night of the soul'

you fell into a void of meaning

i am assuming that was because of utter disillusionment from previously held illusionary ones.

am i right?

[austere dagger]

I guess? Before I believed the woman that said that "you are the prettiest man on earth for me and I never want someone else".
Now I don't trust words like that anymore. All in all, I have trust issues now. Besides, I don't believe that anyone could ever mean words like this to anyone because it is all just chemicals and it all changes all the time due to the universe and probably no "self"

It is all just manipulation I guess? And I tend to be really good at manipulating myself or seeing through outside manipulation through media and so on. But it still fucks me up.

Exspecially because not everyone is aware of the things around them and lots of people behave like shit due to all of that.

[crude smelt]

it is chemicals now whose or what makes them moving thats a difficult question to answer but i m gonna take a different aproach than i usualy do with you.you keep telling me you suffer but you seem t not express direct emotion about half of the things you say are horrible about the world.so im curious.what is the source of your suffering?

[austere dagger]

I think, that what makes me suffer is the pain I went through. Divorced parents, heartbreak, kind of broken family, the stupidity of humanity, climate change, elitism

I do a lot to make all of that work out but ye

Btw I am happy that my parents are divorced because my dad used to be an asshole but it is still shitty and I experienced so much shit due to that. And my ex acted as if the relationship failed because I'd be toxic for good reason because my parents were toxic but in reality I became "toxic" because she fucking hit me or humiliated me in public and so on.

[crude smelt]

woah i can relate to most of that actually...i think you d like researching spirituality a little bit.it will make your horizons much bigger.i know it may sound lie nonsense and that it can be explained with science.but even science cant deny the absurdity of creation.i wont judge your behavior no matter what you did.(im being literal).but that doesnt mean i wont respond to it.good and evil are 2 very unique terminologies that sprout from within when encountering the emotion of bliss or the emotion of suffering.so when you say you became toxic all i see is a response to something.its not evil.even though nobody enjoys being treated that way.additionaly i would like to respond to your reply.if these are the reason you suffer change them.its a three phase plan.FEEL----->ACKNOWLEDGE----->BE.its complex. its difficult like finaly deciding to let the stomach disease take its course(to vomit).once you decide it 100%.and do the above with perfect accuracy.its over.if they aint then start looking again.thinking is almost impossible to grant the answer.unless you are like carrie wells from unforgettable.and can recall SOME thought you had or feeling at 3:08 at last years saint patricks day.pfff.you need to feel it.theres a song from a game called hades i think it might help you get what i mean with some lyrics.Its called'' In the blood''.its also a nice song 😄 *(a little hint.take the song somewhat literally).you may also like to research some psychoanalysts that dealt with the unconscious mind.i can imagine how you feel.ive gone through similar things.to find the source you must dive all the way down.Below though,below all illusion.find yourself.whoever that is.and please dont judge thyself.and dont think too much.just guide yourself.

[austere dagger]

Look, I don't believe that there is a real "self". I think that the self is simply all that you have learned throughout your life. But it is all just really weird because most people throw their shit everywhere and treat lots of people badly. In the long term, this will cause issues for them. But idk how to fix the world and I don't think that it is my mission to do that all by myself. Exspecially, because everyone seems to follow false prophets and money nowadays.

[broken dragon]

I just feel empty like I'm living someone's else's life

[austere dagger]

How do you mean that? Maybe, you are doing things that you don't want to do but are forced to do or told to do?

That's one of the reasons for why I absolutely don't want to listen to anyone.
I hate politics and so on. But then again: you somehow need to work together. It is so weird and crazy I guess?

[crude smelt]

yestreday i was smart and wanted to change the world,today i am wise so im changing myself.-some guy whose name i not gonna bother looking up.that + you are a bit confused.you said you dont believe in a self and then explained what it is.or gave a truer meaning for the word to be more exact.if you change yourself the world will have to follow.even though the ''self'' wont change the literal translation is more accepting and acting accordingly rather than morph.what you gonna turn into copper or something?

[crude smelt]

its only crazy if you try to do it.cause its not crazy,its illogical and thus impossible.

[crude smelt]

thats my guess as well...

[austere dagger]

I just start to believe that therapy is stupid because it is just a bunch of people talking to each other but tbh, I don't believe that they can change anything about the fucked upness of everything.

If you want to tell me that some dude with a degree is able to make me feel less terrible about all the terrible shit that goes on around me, I fear that you are wrong. Worst of all: I don't want think that it changes anything about me not being able to get what I want due to fucking politics

I mean, I can say fuck politics but that would be fucked up too

Besides, I can't stop asking myself what I do here and whether the people around me don't ask themselves those questions because they clearly get along pretty well and behave like shit

Not meaning to offend anyone because I get it man. They just want to have fun and so on

Best I can think of making me happy is sitting at home playing video games all day and caring for the garden

But video games are a trap designed by the government so I don't build cool shit outside

[broken dragon]

I'm not me Is how I feel

[austere dagger]

What is "me"

[broken dragon]

I've been asking myself that forever

[austere dagger]

Yes, so do I.

There have been things that I used to consider "meaningful" but now I realise that everything is meaningless and it makes me so sad :c

But then again: everything can be meaningful too right?

[broken dragon]

Yes

[rare ether]

you say that until you feel happy

then you realize it is not meaningless

happiness is the meaning of life and the moment you feel happy you agree with me

[austere dagger]

Yes

It is just really hard

It is hard to feel happy

[rare ether]

there are no thought of "meaningless" in a happy state
an example would be when I drink beer, I feel very happy, and when I think about "meaningless" Im like, this feeling is "meaningful af" but ofc drugs are not the way, more like excersize and progress in brain-science

[austere dagger]

The world has become so weird. People don't want to hear the truth

[rare ether]

yeah, because we still live in a time where our brains are designed by nature, not by intelligence

our brain is wired to save energy, to be lazy, and it's kind of randomized too

[austere dagger]

Besides, our brains are cooked to believe in money and stories instead of facts and logic

[rare ether]

yeah, most humans are not well educated, it's lonely at the top for me

[austere dagger]

I oftentimes feel hyperaware

I notice the way that people stand

how they look

how they tilt their head

their feet

how they moistion their lips

[rare ether]

do you want to feel hyperaware? is it something active you do or does it happen passivly without you even wanting it?

[austere dagger]

how their puppils become bigger or smaller

[austere dagger]

Both

Sometimes, it helps me to make better decisions

[rare ether]

I heard that some people on the autism spectrum are hyper-aware and therefore hate loud and full places

[austere dagger]

Sometimes, I just notice it and become scared or feel weird

[austere dagger]

Oh I definitely hate loud and full places

But I don't think that I am autistic

[rare ether]

ok, but you are hyperaware which ?luckily? Im not so idk how to help with it, for me I dont even realize if someone gets beaten up right next to me

[austere dagger]

The weirdest part is: I notice when female partners of others are attracted to me and I even notice that I can manipulate my own behavior, so I become even more attractive towards them and could make them cheat but I actively chose to not do that which therefore makes me feel as if there is free will and it makes me wonder why there are so many people telling me that there is not.

Because obviously, if there was no free will and it was all just about reproduction, I would go along

[rare ether]

not even a god could know if he has a free will or not

there is a famous german saying "I doubt about free will, which is proof to me that I have free will"

it was shortened to "I think therefore I am" which was not quite what the german philosopher meant but yeah

[austere dagger]

I consider friendship or friendly behavior more valuable than short term gratification or something like that and therefore, I don't do things like that

[rare ether]

yeah I mean cheating is lying which is criminal tbh

[austere dagger]

Yes, that to me is also the "truth". I think that even the Bible says that humans tend to love the gratification and are therefore not having free will but humans are capable of conditioning themselves to not doing things which is free will.

[rare ether]

the bible is like 1000-2000 years old or sth, back then people did not really have much education

it is true that many people are short-term minded which sucks

but I usually try to stay away from those dopamine-drug-addicts

I am a very long-term thinker and try to surround myself with long-term-thinkers (I have 0 friends)

[austere dagger]

There are so many cheaters in the world and they do just fine. I just don't do it because I don't want to be cheated on and I don't want to hurt anyone. Besides, it might hurt me and all in all I want to love the people around me but it becomes really hard when I notice the infinite amount of stupidity within humanity

[rare ether]

if cheaters manage to get away with it, that's lucky

I wouldnt risk it, some thieves get away with stealing stuff, doesnt mean it is right and doesnt mean you should risk it

my ex cheated on me, she will never be happy again, she will never have a cent of money again

[austere dagger]

Tbh, give that book a read and try to read it as metaphoric, badly translated science. You will be shocked on how much overlaps with modern scientifique insights

[rare ether]

I was forced to read it

there are things in the bible I agree with, for example 1 Timothy 2:12 🤭

[austere dagger]

So you are aware of the weird passages that talk about climate change, epigenetics, work that pays off, socially "bad" behavior, empathy, seeking/finding truth, the book ecclesiastes which states meaninglessness and many more?

I do think that it contains a lot of social values and so on

[rare ether]

you do you, I dont like reading books in general, I use educational YT vids with nice animations

Branch education, Lesics, 3blue1brown, no book can ever beat them

[austere dagger]

Yes, same nowadays.

[austere dagger]

Tbh, I disagree that women shouldn't teach. However, I could imagine that teachings and so on give women power and I think that power dynamics should be/are "equal" in every "healthy" relationship. Besides, I think that you are obviously right. The book is really old and does contain passages that were relevant for the survival in former times but not anymore I guess. I do find it hilarious though that there are many things within that book to "secure your survival". For example, I don't think that you should not not wear clothing made of more than three strings as the Bible says. Considering that there are many people who will treat you with disrespect when wearing or not wearing branded clothing, I do think that there might be some truth to that statement.

[rare ether]

yeah it was more of a joke I made

[austere dagger]

Ok

Sorry, perhaps I am autistic 😄

[rare ether]

no, you dont know me, hence you couldnt know if I was serious or not

maybe the smiley but that's the only clue that I was joking a bit

[austere dagger]

I did notice but I was still trying to clarify on it because I did feel the need to do so

[austere dagger]

Do you think that most people lie about their identity?

Or what they do or don't do?

I sometimes realise that I lie

I mostly try to work on myself

I try to improve myself

But then, I realise that everyone is lying at some point and I realise that everything is kinda weird and stupid and most of the things in the world are being destroyed by us or just exist, so there is something that "controls" us.

The absense of right or wrong is also messing with my head. It even goes to the point of me wondering whether I should go along my negative thoughts because I really want to act on them but I don't do it because I consider it the "wrong" thing to do and it puts me in jail I guess. But seeing all the "wrong" things or "illegal" things that others do, I simply feel like shutting off. Besides, killing myself is also not wrong in that case I guess, so I wonder why I just don't do it. Everything is so screwed somehow and yes that's it.

All of that has started due to post modernism for me

And I realise how stupid all of this sounds but I feel as if all of this is needed in the world. Whenever, I speak to loved ones about this, they believe that I am crazy. I tell them that everything happens beyond good and evil and is simply weird. They tell me that I am just an idiot who hung out with the wrong people. Meanwhile, I often think that my loved ones also behave like that which they themselves call idiots. I do realise how much of an idiot I am myself. But the worst of it is that everyone wears different clothing and uses different speech and all of that which fucks up my pattern recognition and makes me adapt in every second or makes me filter every second. I am overstimulated and fear that my genes will not be useful for the future of humanity. Exspecially, because there are lots of unnecessary things for humanity and the planet in general based on a scientifique perspective I'd say.

I try to make my own experiences and try to find really good reasoning for all I do but tbh: I do lots of shit that feels stupid. Exspecially, using a phone feels kind of stupid to me. We do so many things that seem terrible for education or securing our survival.

Worst of all, I find it difficult to believe in human relationships anymore. Family, love and friendship have become really difficult to me due to all of that. I am traumatized af but I feel like it has to be that way and it is a good thing that I am traumatized because it makes me see the truth.

Due to all of that, I exspecially don't feel like putting any effort into anything because I doubt that most other people put lots of effort into anything.

[broken dragon]

I just feel like I'm living someone else's life

[austere dagger]

Yo, I just have a childhood memory coming back into my mind. In that memory, there is a video of a girl from a town which was nearby my hometown and in that video she is getting fucked by her dog.

How do I get rid of thoughts like this

Due to things like this, I am scared of being in public and so on

[austere dagger]

I mean... It does not matter and I won't be mean to that person because of that but filming yourself when getting fucked by a dog? Like what the fuck?

And posting it on snapchat?!?

Public story

Or like a few second ago I just went on the sidewalk and some dude drove on the wrong path and almost crashed into me and then looked at me in a really mean way as if he wants to punch me though I did the right thing. But then again, it is probably smarter to just remain calm and keep on living since it is stupid to care about shut like this but then again, I feel like I should not let myself be treated badly

[placid patio]

Moral and ethics are human technologies that define the properties of good & evil. Similarly money, governance, or free speech are also technologies. Sure they may not really "exist", but they are a meaningful models for information and interaction in our phenomenal reality.

As creatures we aren't automated solely by pragmatism alone, but through a panacea of internal drives. It can be difficult to realize affective experiences can lead us to live self destructive lives, but we aren't without autonomy.

[austere dagger]

And things such as friendship feels also weird to me right now because some of my friends hang out with friends of my ex and I am scared that they will be good with them. They might know that this makes me feel weird but they don't care and it is all just nature so idk

[placid patio]

It sounds like you exist in a state of limbo.

[austere dagger]

What does that mean?

Like what the hell do I do here? How can I escape this shitty place called earth?

[placid patio]

You've said a few times that things feel weird to you, like you're undecided about how to act.

[austere dagger]

I want to be in a good place

[austere dagger]

Yes, I feel as if I should kill myself because I think that I am crazy

[placid patio]

The narrative that are given to us and the context of our environment have a deep affect on who we become, but you also have agency in the narrative of your own identity and where you place yourself in life.

[austere dagger]

Like... Is it normal to get fucked by your dog?

[placid patio]

No, but sometimes human behavior is malformed and maladaptive for many reasons.

[austere dagger]

Yes, but shouldn't that be treated differently or idk?

Like wtf

Am I crazy?

I feel like I have lots of malformed humans around me

Like what even is friendship and so on?

When you disrespect the borders and so on?

[placid patio]

I can't say how someone should or shouldn't be treat, I know my feelings on the matter are disgust, but that's my own affective experience.

Friendship is a connection, care, and acknowledgement of another. Where you draw the line on who is or isn't a friend is a choice you get to decide.

I don't know you, but you don't seem crazy. Just different like everyone else.

[austere dagger]

But what makes me so different?

Is it not normal to not want your friends to be good with your ex?

Idk

Like

Do you really want friendship with an ex?

I don't think so

It is awkward

And it only increases a messed up partnership for your future with another partner

Like: I only had eyes for one girl

And now I feel not attracted to anyone anymore

And it is weird af

Exspecially because other people are always looking at girls for some reason and they watch "the videos" if you know what I mean

I used to do that too

I was even addicted

But ever since I fell in love I tried not to

And now I don't feel attracted to anyone but her

And it is really hard to get her out of my mind

And it is even weirder to be with another person

Besides, I rationalize securing my survival

[broken dragon]

I feel like I'm screaming inside like I'm trapped in my body. No matter how much I scream for help I just feel drowned

[austere dagger]

Nothing matters is the worst part... I feel like everything is full of chaos but chaos probably has to exist and idk... Chaos does not exist... Chaos only exists in my head... People have fucking animals from africa at home for fun and it is absolutely fine because it is a great emotional decision and I am still supossed to go along with all this stupidity and shit... I feel so sad when I think of how badly animals are treated or the environment... Or literally everything... But then again... It is only a problem in my mind. I mean the universe does not care and people don't care and it is all nature and people could behave better but they won't because people suck and I really wanna kill myself due to all that but I don't do it because I know that killing myself does not change anything

I don't even know how this system could possibly work this well considering how much weird shit is happening 24/7

Like my ex literally considered someone as a potential partner who sent me pictures of his pp when he was drunk... I mean... Surely humans make mistakes and can learn from them but what the hell?

And besides that: should we seriously be fine with this incredible incompetence? With people who molest others and so on?

By now I am just like: well whatever.. but I don't feel like: well whatever... And then again I feel so weird... Like why do I even complain? Because it all has to be this way...

[austere dagger]

What you might have is a derealization. It is a feeling of not being yourself and everything just happening outside of yourself. I also have that every day, whenever I notice that people behave like people do on social media instead of how it was appropriate at a work place. I also have that whenever I see people who look as if they want to make themselves really sexually appealing and I have that whenever someone just does not give a fuck about any social norms and behaves like shit but that has become so common that I notice my system copys it and therefore I start hating myself because I behave just as terrible as everyone else due to my mirrorneurons eventhough I don't want to... Besides, I wonder what is done correctly or not. So basically, I wonder what I want to have within my system or not because I am trying to build a life that I can enjoy but nowadays it feels impossible to live a life that you can enjoy because there are so many distractions everywhere and I need to get rid of them so I can relax... Meanwhile I feel like my work does not matter and so on

[austere dagger]

Am I crazy for all of these thoughts? I mean what do I do here?

[austere dagger]

Can someone please explain me what my purpose is or what is good or evil or how I can be a "good person" eventhough no one really is good I guess because everyone is an asshole sometimes and no one actually cares for oneanother but only cares for as long as you benefit oneanother? Like why do families split apart for some dumb ass argument when before arguments were just fine with them? Why do I get angry at someone in one moment for something that I'd do myself in another moment?

[placid patio]

We are contradictory, but should our behaviors entirely encapsulate who we are? Is good and evil defined by intent or action, or both? The thing is we have many drives and different moral scales that lie behind our actions. You're looking for a truth where there isn't one. The truth lies in the world model you cultivate and the absolutes about human behavior you narrate to yourself. Meaning in life is what you make it, and your moral system is for you to choose and adopt.

If you want some philosophical answers on the subject look at stoicism, taoism or even works like Beyond Good and Evil.

We get angry for all kind of reasons but a common underlying foundation for its expression in a loss of control or significance. Perhaps being an almost mindless evolutionary expression to regain authority for ones will.

[placid patio]

You bear the weight of your own freedom, do not make it the responsibility of another.

[austere dagger]

Alright. Don't you feel weird sometimes though? Like about all that happens? Because I can assure you that to me everything is just soooo weird

[placid patio]

Sure, but I imagine our experience of the world is radically different if derealization is the lens in which you live your life through.

You seem like you're looking for some dividing absolutes to understand human behavior, or an answer you've already prefabricated.

You can construct models to fit human behavior, but they will never reflect reality entirely. At best they will abstractly map in a superficial way. Add a value system on top of that model and the inconstancies only become more distorted.

[austere dagger]

Help, I am willing to kill myself again

I don't know what I do here and am scared of humans

I found out that the people around me do orgies and so on

And I am scared of all that

What do I do here

Please help me

What the fuck is going on

I am so fucking scared of everything by now because it all happens and it all happens due to nature i guess?

So wtf do I do here

So many people do cocain and all that stuff

And i am always getting influenced somehow by all of this

And I don't want to go to work, speak to people or whatever because of it

I just don't want to

I really don't want to be around this stuff

And meanwhile I wonder why I try to not do things like that

Because obviously lots of (exspecially powerful) people do that

And is that good?

Idk

I don't want this anymore

Everything just feels meaningless to me and I don't even feel like securing my survival anymore

I just lay in bed most of the time and want to die

[placid patio]

I say this with all due respect, you need to find a professional therapist.