Nintendo 64

[neon heron]

Need analog triggers too. That is the same issue with the the retro-bit- leave off one of the defining features.

[alpine glen]

Thnx Red, but I find it strange, I have rumble with the same adapter with psx core in Mister. Binding goes perfect in s mode, all is working except rumble.
And I have rumble withOG Xbox and project stellar with the same adapter. That confuses me, a little.. but give it a try tonight when iam home from work, or tomorrow.

[void mauve]

@alpine glen The Analogue 64 controller support isn't perfect in Mister yet. I'm sure it'll get fixed.

If you rebind the controller inputs in the general Mister settings, the analog stick stops registering up and down.

I had to delete all my N64 controller configurations to "fix" it.

[wanton sun]

I'm currently cleaning up the github issues. There have been long solved bugs inside and some weird requests.
Please feel free to reopen any issue if you think some of these are not solved.

[zinc dew]

Ohhhh what are the weird requests?

[wanton sun]

mostly button remapping options for the OSD

[hushed nova]

moondandy's 55 issues asking for 64DD support

[wanton sun]

If someone wants to support, some games might need a retest:
Wipeout64(PAL): https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_MiSTer/issues/48
Star Twins(JP): https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_MiSTer/issues/47
Top Gear Rally(Asia): https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_MiSTer/issues/35
Wave Race: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_MiSTer/issues/55
I suspect some of these old bugs are gone.

[waxen oyster]

Some of these are really difficult to rule out completely, as the submissions don't really have information like ROM revision #, what video mode they're using, etc.

For reference, I'm on DV=1 to a Morph. I tested these on both the latest N64 Core and N64 Turbo Core. I tried each game twice on each core.

Wipeout64 (PAL): Completed the first race with no crash. I realize more testing may need to be done but I can only play this game so long waiting for a random crash.

Top Gear Rally (Asia) reports a standard 640x480i resolution in menus and 640x240p in game. I experience no flickering or offset colors.

Star Twins (JP): No crash during into sequence.

Wave Race: No flickering on the first course with the default racer.

[zinc dew]

While true about not being able to rule it out, if there’s not enough information provided and enough testing was done then it should be marked as closed.

Bugs without enough information for proper testing aren’t helpful unfortunately and if repro steps aren’t known or can’t be identified as being related to a set of specific parameters then it could be something wrong with their hardware. So that can’t be ruled out either.

[magic girder]

I think a lot of those issues were ported across from the old testing spreadsheet

[wanton sun]

especially since these entries are old and fixes have been done since.
Thank you for looking into it @waxen oyster

[zinc dew]

Sorry for coming across as preachy, I just spent several months fixing bugs on a major AAA release so it’s still fresh in my mind haha,

[magic girder]

Define major 😏

[zinc dew]

And before anyone says, I fixed a lot of bugs caused by other teams, not all were my fault!

[magic girder]

You’re right though. I’d mark and closed and wait for them to be reopened if there’s actually a problem

[wanton sun]

I will test Wipeout myself as well, but the other 3 are not random events, but defined situations that would be broken, so i guess those are fine to close

[weary perch]

wipeout PAL has other issues that are a possible bellwether for the random crashing that are reproducible, i'll take a look at it

the options menu flickers reproducibly last time i tested it

well the race records screen still glitches and flickers so i'm going to guess Wipeout PAL still crashes too

i'll put in a few races and see if i can get it to happen

it's still an issue in Ares so i'd be a little surprised if that one was fixed, as Ruleset never patched it

[zinc dew]

Ares still best N64 software emulator?

[weary perch]

Top Gear Rally looks like it was actually fixed, Star Twins i think possibly no one tested after Ruleset patched it?

but should also be fixed

honestly i mostly just use MiSTer and have less reason to keep up with software emulators, but Ares is still the one i'd trust by default

[zinc dew]

After I posted that message I realized I only emulate on MiSTer so I didn’t know why I bothered to ask lol

But Ares is a very nice program

[weary perch]

hmm, actually i still see the issue in TGR (asia)

could someone who is just using regular HDMI out test that one?

i.e someone not running thru an external scaler

Very quick test. Just load up Top Gear Rally (Asia) and lmk if you see this or not

in-game looks fine, only the menus look borked

could hypothetically be my display not liking it so would love a corroboration if anyone gets a chance

yeah idk. far as i can tell the issue remains same as it was. my capture card sees the same thing as my TV. seems like a scaler type issue, especially if someone with an external scaler didn't see anything wrong

but idk, would just wanna see if anyone else gets that

still showing the OSD values i reported in the original issue for me as well

[magic girder]

Emulate on MiSTer?!

[zinc dew]

It doesn’t load for me, how odd.

Do I need a unique bios?

[green epoch]

it loaded, wait for the demo to start

I only know becasue I have it on an analog set too

but yeah, the menu does not display through HDMI

[zinc dew]

My N64 has a little C64 light show going when I load the core

And when I load the game that doesn’t go away like when the games are loaded

Just stuck there

[green epoch]

game is 1912x1440. Menu is 1904x1437 (on my ipad screen). Also, menu is 57.4hz and the gameplay is 61.5

music is kind of a bop tho

Oh it's not stable at all. the go around it said the menu was 59.2

On the 5th or 6th attract loop, my ipad screen was like "you know what, get out of here with game" and now doesn't display anything

added to the ticket

[quick arch]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_MiSTer/pull/73

[green epoch]

how long do I need to let wipeout sit?

ahh, there is that crash

[weary perch]

in Wipeout PAL? it's very random

[green epoch]

yeah, I let the attract run for 10 minutes and it finally crashed

[weary perch]

i've been playing for quite awhile and it hasn't crashed - it's one of those very annoying ones to test

probably about an hour stable here

but that flicker in the race records and other menus screens is a good indicator to me that it will still crash so thank you for the corroboration

[green epoch]

it was an E00000100 error for me

[weary perch]

so 2/4

star twins and wave race should be closed

top gear rally and wipeout PAL are still issues

TGR (ASIA) specifically

[green epoch]

Yeah, I can't get star twins to crash

[weary perch]

ruleset patched each regional variant of JFG and that one i believe was not tested again

or well, it was tested but that old sheet wasn't updated

[green epoch]

Do we know which region of wave race had the reported?

[weary perch]

the wave race one seems to be some kind of strange user error

i don't know what they are talking about but the game has been basically flawless on MiSTer since a transparency fix a long time ago

the last issue in that game was a weird little line at the top of transparent objects but that was, yeah. fixed. long ago

game is fine and all regional variants should be fine

i'm looking at it now just to be double sure

[green epoch]

Yeah, I was gonna look just to be sure. I dunno if MrsBison is here and can elaborate a little

[weary perch]

i'm testing each variant just to be sure

all the main 3 are fine with driver 1 on course 1. not entirely sure what is meant by "flickering" but i see nothing out of the ordinary

main three as in Japan, USA, Europe

iQue also looks fine

there are a few subvariants like Australia and a different European language set but i will leave it to someone else if they want to dig

i think it's safe to close that one

wave race options menu music is very soothing 🙂

[vapid hawk]

wasnt waverace one of the game-of-the-month thing? probably a hundred+ hours of testing got poured in there

[zenith notch]

A couple of times I had the character portraits flicker and a ton of slowdown which would last for about five seconds, think it happened when I first played after updating the core, could be wrong on that though, been a while.

[weary perch]

oh interesting

USA version?

[mellow raft]

What MiSTer setup/componentry do you have?

[zenith notch]

Yes, USA ver.

[zenith notch]

DE-10 using hdmi.

I also had the game soft lock 3 times when going over the start finish line, it's very rare for it to happen and hasn't for a very long time now. Didn't mention or report these things at the time as core development had finished.

[weary perch]

wow, hmm

i'll play some wave race and see if i see anything

[mellow raft]

Is your N64 database file updated to your knowledge?

Everyone during testing would have been completing full tournaments before counting a game like this "perfect" on the compatibility list.

So I'm very curious what's going on here.

Are you saying this has been going on for you since core testing?

[wanton sun]

I played both PAL and NTSC through all cups last year, never had any crash or other issue.

There was a very random crash, but that was fixed very early, still in 2023 I think

Will take a look later at wipeout, 61.5 Hz seems very weird

[zenith notch]

The database file is whatever is pulled from update_all, should be ok.

[zenith notch]

I played the game daily for a couple of months when the core was "finished", around March last year. Took ages, like 8 hours of gameplay or more before I had the game first softlock, then had a couple more in the next few hours before never seeing it again. Played it a few times since but given how infrequent the crash was don't expect it will be easy to replicate.

[visual sage]

Why does “Clean HDMI” break Direct Video?

[zenith notch]

Would you object to a new feature request? The black transitions option from the ps1 core would be nice if possible. Whilst there are nowhere near as many 480i games or menus in the library as others the screen transitions between 240p/480i display show frames of static garbage which would be nice to mask. No worries if it's not possible or you don't want to add it!

[wanton sun]

as it is now part of the framework, it would be very easy to add

[hushed nova]

do you remember if it has a particular pattern when it happens? like is it always 240p -> 480i or 480i -> 240p?

[wanton sun]

I think the issue happens with any resolution change. My guess is that the different resolution will result in different memory model in the scaler, but the resolution gets updated later/earlier than the data or something like this

[blazing anvil]

I have a question (hopefully it's ok). Would the replay2 FPGA have enough power to fix the memory related timing niggles with the N64 core. Otherwise put, would a power powerful FPGA allow for more improvements? It has 'hyperram' and I believe also a DDR4 (or was it 5) stick can be allotted to the core exclusively

[swift drift]

My controller's rumble on the MiSTer by default, but the DS4 rumble is very pathetic, and almost non-existent compared to my DualSense.

[zinc dew]

It’s definitely an ok question to ask! I’m not an expert at nor am I familiar with the Replay 2 but cores and the MiSTer framework would need to be ported first and that is a massive undertaking. So even if it were way more powerful it might be a moot point anyways.

[plush summit]

The only way we'll know is when the thing is actually in people's hands at this point

[blissful plaza]

The newest N64 core on the GitHub page seems to have some video issues (regular vertical white stripes).

I'm building a new version with a different seed right now.

[blazing anvil]

Aha you need to alter a lot to support other RAM. I hoped on small changes

[green epoch]

that’s common with robert cores. you have to find a good seed

[blissful plaza]

I know, I was compiling versions of GBA, PS1, and N64 cores before you came here.

Just letting people know to wait before using it, as I'm looking for a good seed and I'll upload it soon.

Seed 10.
Seems to fix the Vertical lines.

[green epoch]

an N64 release in 2025?

[hushed nova]

does paul's latest PR fix that issue where if the user changes those settings and then later loads the core it basically black screens and looks like the entire mister crashed?

[jolly turret]

Can someone also test Resident Evil 2 via a CRT monitor, maybe both PAL and NTSC versions? I noticed that some of the early A campaign screens on the way to Kendo's gun shop are flickering in a weird way, I think one image was even offset in height slightly if I recall correctly.

[vapid hawk]

you're most likely noticing the way that game switches between 240p and 480i from screen to screen

[zinc dew]

I have the cart and my N64 hooked up to a CRT

[mortal panther]

That's our one release before Christmas.

Promises made, promises kept.

[quick light]

RE2 on the N64 core will default to using the expansion pack. Try changing it back to 4mb (I believe that's the number)

[blazing anvil]

Does anyone have experience with region (PAL to NTSC) converting save game data?

[jolly turret]

Is it behaving in the same way that I described? Just wanting to make sure if the console behaves in the same way. I thought the images flickered very noticeably in a way that I wouldn't expect the console to behave like.

[quick light]

I'm guessing the expansion pack enabled by default for RE2. The expansion pack for RE2 increases the resolution based on the area you are at. However, it isn't consistent. Meaning from starting the game and reaching kendos. Your going to experience resolution changes.

Now i don't own a crt, however I believe it's the expansion pack. If you go into the settings and change the ram back to 4. I reckon your issue is solved

Now on my modern TV with the expansion pack enabled. Whilst I get the images getting larger and smaller (due to the resolution increase and decrease). I also get black screens whilst the resolution changes.

(however if I run it with the expansion pack and the fixed blanks mode on. I don't get the black screen when the game changes in size)

It's a quirk of the expansion pack + RE2.

To be fair I think RE2 should have it's expansion pack by default turned off. Or at least allow the settings I've changed to be persistent. As every time I want to play RE2 on the N64. I have to change the ram and reset the game. (Even when saving the settings)

[vapid hawk]

there is a cheat you can use instead to disable the expak, thats what i do on real hardware

[magic girder]

Isn’t the point that, while it does change resolution a lot with the expansion pack, which does cause issues with modern TVs, it should be fine on a CRT?

[quick light]

I was tinkering more with the video settings earlier actually with Resident Evil 2 and I've got it looking quite nice without clean HDMI enabled. It looks really nice.

[quick light]

I'm guessing you would notice the images stretch?

[vapid hawk]

if you're using directvideo there's going to be a little audio blip with it

[quick light]

Or the images at least moving around slightly/flickering due to the resolution increases and decreases.

To be fair we can wait for someone to test it with an expansion pack on original hardware with a crt.

[zenith notch]

Pretty sure it's the scaler causing the issue on res changes, using a CRT or HDTV won't make a difference (correct me if I'm wrong!). That's why I requested the black frame option to be added earlier, to clean up those transitions.

[quick light]

I'm in the mood now to play RE2 on the n64

[hushed nova]

crt from analog out has no scaler path (unless you forced that)

[quick light]

I might play biohazard instead.

[hushed nova]

direct video doesn't really have a scaler path, but the mode switch might make the dac slightly annoyed

[vapid hawk]

biohazard2 has weird issues last time i checked

[quick light]

Oooh, looks like I got a reason to give it a crack

[jolly turret]

Exactly, was thinking the same. I didn't notice it happen with my N64 console, but I didn't compare it directly yet.

[zenith notch]

ah ok, thanks for clarifying for me.

[vapid hawk]

yeah try it out, watch out for the music getting stuck after kendo dies and other weird stuff i cant remember anymore 😄

[quick light]

Il be using whatever the latest turbo core is. As I like my turbo cores.

[magic girder]

Exactly. In an ideal world, the behaviour of a real console + CRT would be the same as a MiSTer + CRT

[quick light]

But il be making sure that expansion pack is disabled

[vapid hawk]

yeah i'd still disable the expak for re2 even on real hardware and a crt, the 480i screens are meh, the backgrounds were only ever rendered at 240p so all it does is make the 3d models stick out more

similar problem to the dreamcast versions at 480i

[magic girder]

Sure, but that’s a preference rather than a solution

I’m not saying there’s necessarily anything wrong with the core - just that that’s what @jolly turret is querying 😅

[quick light]

If you don't mind the images changing sizes slightly. You can just enable that v blank setting aswell as keeping the expansion pack on.

Let me boot up my mister

[magic girder]

I don’t use a CRT 😅

[quick light]

I don't either to be fair. I just want to see how bad the scene transitions are with the expansion pack enabled aswell as fixed video blanks

To be fair it isn't that bad. You can see that the scenes are changing in terms of size

However

And a big however

Crop vertical 8 makes quite a difference in the image size changes. It's not that noticeable

[tepid shuttle]

fwiw the guys in the replay2 server are talking about having the same SDRAM from the mister on the replay2 board for compatibility's sake, which would apparently make porting cores trivial. their words though, not mine

[blazing anvil]

True but that won't help the N64 core taking advantage of the faster RAM additionally on the board. But nice to have of course

[wanton sun]

I don't know that actual external memory, which is the crucial part.
DDR4+5 will not work, too high latency, at least with the memory controller Xilinx FPGAs offer.(DDR3 would work)
Hyperram can be fine, if they have enough of it, same for sdram.
The FPGA itself will be fine if it's newer fabric and large enough(+20-50% would be nice)

With Hyperram it's easy to calculate: must be able to fetch 72bit with 62.5Mhz.
E.g. with a 8 bit Hyperram running at 250 Mhz you can fetch 32Bit with 62.5Mhz, so it would need 3 of them

[blazing anvil]

4 (All seperate addressing), each 16 bit data bus (DDR so it's 8 bits on rising edge and 8 bits on falling edge of each clock cycle)It runs at 200 MHz believe. 256 Megabyte of RAM.

@wanton sun Maybe I need to wake up first but where does the 62.5 MHz come from?

Edit: whoops it is a 16-bit bus not 8-bit. So DDR makes a 32-bit data transfer

I don't get why DDR3 would work and 4 wouldn't. It's not that much slower? But you mention the controller specifically so it's probably not related to below calculation...

Example:
DDR3-1600 CL10
→ Latency = (10 × 2000) / 1600 = 12.5 ns

DDR4-2400 CL16
→ Latency = (16 × 2000) / 2400 = 13.33 ns

[quick light]

I think your correct

(couldn't do any playthrough of Biohazard last night as I watched Top Gear instead)

The audio is quite different between Biohazard 2 and resident evil 2

There's no bgm at all

[quick light]

And after you get past the gun shop the bgm is stuck

Looping the same song

Just saved it and im resetting the mister. Seeing if loading the game fixes anything

After loading the stuck looped track has stopped but now nothing is playing

Just tested both the normal N64 core aswell as the turbo core and still the same bug is appearing.

You do not need a save to test it. Boot up both Biohazard 2 and Resident Evil 2 on the N64 core. On RE2, there is bgm audio when you spawn in. It's missing in Biohazard 2.

@green epoch Hey boss. Your favourite game might have another bug haha. Resident Evil 2. But this time, it's the Japanese counterpart titled Biohazard 2.

[weary perch]

so, audio issues in Biohazard 2 is an old issue. as far as I know the patch Ruleset made was supposed to help with that (along with the crashing it used to have), so maybe he could look at it again

it's been too long to directly recall but on my sheet i have the older audio issue symptom (music gets stuck on one track after the gun shop and never changes again) having been addressed by Ruleset's BH2 patch

[quick light]

Ooh sweet.

[weary perch]

can we do a quick sanity check to confirm the audio is there on hardware on BH2?

[quick light]

Er

[weary perch]

i.e. not a hardware bug

[quick light]

I might be able too but it's going to be on a modern tv

[weary perch]

that's fine

you could even pull up a yt video if you can confirm it's hardware

[quick light]

I have an RGB ntscj N64 with an official biohazard 2 cart

[quick light]

I did find a video but I wasn't sure if it was hardware.

[weary perch]

i've gotten burned by this before with those stupid clayfighters games having bugs on hardware that look for all the world like emulation errors

[quick light]

You'll have to give me quite a while. I haven't setup my ossc + N64 in ages

[weary perch]

i assume BH2 and RE2 both have the same music presentation

[quick light]

Il have a quick look for a video first.

[weary perch]

and i think i know that to be true, but i'll find a vid, yeah

speedruns are a good resource because they actually mark if it is on hardware or not

on the downside, they often skip every damn thing soooo

lol

[quick light]

https://youtu.be/IHAJELrch78

[weary perch]

oh i see what you wrote

[quick light]

Biohazard 2 played on an official N64 with the hardware pack (not that would make a difference) but boss music is playing

[weary perch]

so you are saying the music doesn't play properly at all

[quick light]

Nope

[weary perch]

basically the old issue is back

[quick light]

The only music that plays is kendos gunshop

The alleyway music doesn't work

[weary perch]

ok, yeah sounds like the symptoms from before, which i wrote as "Music gets stuck on one track after zombies break into gun shop"

[quick light]

When you finish kendos gunshop. That music is looped and stuck. After saving and loading in the police station. The kendos gunshop music is gone and nothing else plays

But no music even plays before the gunshop

[weary perch]

@hidden bolt any thoughts? maybe i'm mistaken and your patch didn't address music in BH2

been too long now

[quick light]

And I don't know if it's placebo or anything. But it feels like the main menu music is slightly wrong or off. But that could just be placebo

[weary perch]

if other audio issues are manifesting it could be off there too

i have my MiSTer hooked up to a capture card so i can make a video later on one of my work breaks

[quick light]

I reckon I don't need to play biohazard on my actual N64 as that video I linked above had boss music playing

[weary perch]

oh yeah don't worry about that, was just trying to cross t's etc

iirc the music should be the same in all regions there

but the way it's doing things now is clearly wrong

[vapid hawk]

ruleset never looked at the JP version afaik

focus was all on the random crashing in US

[weary perch]

well, he patched it, same as the others

edit 04/07/2024: Added Resident Evil 2 NTSC (1.0) and (1.1), PAL and JP (Biohazard 2).

[vapid hawk]

weird

cant imagine much testing was done for that

[weary perch]

i don't recall, but i definitely wrote "patched" next to the music bug on my sheet where i didn't write the same for the texture bug for Mr. X later, which wasn't patched

[vapid hawk]

i dont think we even know for sure if it has the random crashing issue since the music thing is so annoying nobody plays it lol

[weary perch]

maybe i just did a dumb, it's been too long lol

i know i tested quite a fair bit of RE2 but again, been too long to recall which versions i tested, when, etc.

[vapid hawk]

its really weird how it like, carries on even after you load up a savegame

[weary perch]

i'm pretty sure i confirmed the crashing was fixed at the very least

i probably still have the BH2 save before the Licker and one downstairs under the stairwell before the S.T.A.R.S. door

and some of this was JP specific so i'm positive i was testing it back then

[vapid hawk]

oh i made that stairwell save heh

[weary perch]

not sure about the music thing

[vapid hawk]

i forgot the stars door, that was a 100% reliable crash

[weary perch]

i was specific about which issues i marked as patched on the BH2 thing. guess i'm gonna be booting that thing up on my lunch break today and double-checking it now

could have been a brainfart, maybe i did one extra line on the sheet

like, i have 5 issues listed for BH2, but only 3 of them i marked as patched. the Mr. X wall texture bug and the worse-than-hardware slowdown on the first few screens def weren't affected by Ruleset's patch

so i feel confident i checked this... could be a typo.

will report back in a few hours when i have a lunch break

guess it could also be a regression?

what has actually changed in the core since March 2024?

[quick light]

Is that in regards to the BGM? As for me when I loaded up my save the kendo BGM stopped and I had no BGM in the police station.

[quick light]

To be fair I did also try the turbo N64 core too. Which i don't think gets updated as much as the normal core. Still had the same issue there.

[spare meadow]

The Mister X texture issue (blue box) was fixed by Robert. The last core update (vanilla and turbo) are both merged with Robert’s fixes

[weary perch]

Oh right good heads up

[quick light]

Ahh

[weary perch]

hmmmmm

the patch doesn't actually seem to be active when i'm playing the game now

it is back to crashing in the first licker appearance

the music is silent in a loaded file

maybe the patch for BH2 is not getting applied now?

i'm pretty sure the first time i tested this i manually patched the game from his patch? wanna say? before it got baked into the database or whatnot

again... been too long

all i can say is i just now got the Licker crash on the latest stable N64 core

music is also muted from a file loaded after kendo's shop

[quick light]

Thank you for testing. I never got to the first licker so I wouldn't have been able to trigger that crash

[weary perch]

got a save for ya if ya wanna test

takes about 1 min

i'm nearly wholly positive that the Licker crash was retested, most likely by me and possibly also fabrisco and maybe a few others, so either the patch is not currently being applied or some wild regression is happening

or maybe there's some kind of mandela effect going on, idk lol

[quick light]

I just find it strange that it works fine on Resident Evil 2. But not Biohazard 2.

[weary perch]

they always tested different, had slightly different issues so, while i dunno why, this follows with prior observations

just thought most of this was already fixed so i'm a bit confused now

[quick light]

Can do if you want. How do I load up the save in mister? I haven't downloaded someone's save and imported it before.

Oh wait I don't even need a save

I'm at the police station. I'm right next to the first licker. When I get a spare few mins il boot it up and check

[weary perch]

in case anyone else wants to check

go in the first door on the left (looking in from the front door of the station) out of the police station atrium and keep going thru the next room and then walk down the hallway

[quick light]

Yep will test it now.

To be fair I was going to do my N64 playthrough of RE2 with the Japanese version. As the Japanese versions tend to be slightly easier with less zombies. (I did the same for the Saturn port of RE1)

I wonder if the pal version of RE2 had the above issues?

[weary perch]

all 3 versions had slightly different issues

i think it still has the slowdown in the first few screens on PAL

and occasionally elsewhere in the game maybe

[wanton sun]

62.5 Mhz is the N64 bus timing. RAM runs at 500 Mhz with 9 Bit, but 72bit at 62.5Mhz internally

[weary perch]

This is where you’ll get a hang in BH2 if you see what I’m seeing

[wanton sun]

https://utaharch.blogspot.com/2013/11/a-dram-refresh-tutorial.html
tRFC is much higher. There seem to be some tricks with DDR4 to get around it, but typical FPGA memory controllers don't offer it and you cannot really design your own

[quick light]

Ah right. I thought they all had the same issue but the patch database thingy was only working with the NTSC U release or something.

[quick light]

Okay dokey. Hopefully within the next 10 mins I can boot up my mister

[hushed nova]

de25-standard is ddr4 memory, we're gonna regress!

[quick light]

Testing now

(side note Leon starts with the side pack in the Japanese version)

[quick light]

Yeah I got the crash there too

[quick light]

I guess you might be correct here.

I'm not sure if I have a GitHub account, but I could create one later and open up an issue.

[spare meadow]

The patch seens to getting applied correctly but the n64_database. Tested a regular BH2 rom using the n64_database and a manually pached rom. They both are crashing, even if you leave the game run attract mode

Maybe Ruleset could take a look at it

[vapid hawk]

i guess i was only able to make that save past the licker fight on a much older core or something

[quick light]

Ive also just updated the above issue on github and created an issue in regards to the licker crash. Just to keep Robert updated in case he misses our discussion here. If anything changes i can edit the issues.

[weary perch]

thanks for looking at it y'all

[quick light]

Thanks for telling us about that licker crash

[vapid hawk]

i wonder if its all related to the music

that licker cutscene fires new music, the stars door does too

[quick light]

Maybe?

And also thanks to @vapid hawk to pointing out to us that there was an audio bug. As i wouldnt have tried Biohazard 2

[spare meadow]

If it is possible, try to test the game running the attract mode. It crashes after a few minutes ( I always got a black screen)

[quick light]

Il have to test that tomorrow but yeah can do.

[fiery grove]

hi there, i've been away a long time, i have a question about the n64 usb controllers analog sensitivity, i remember that like a half a year ago there was a MiSTer beta distribution that fixes this problem because the controllers where too sensitive.

i wonder if this fix is on the main distribution now or still in beta distributions

Sorry if i misspelled something, english is not my native language

i remember the fix was made by lemonici and markun

[lament escarp]

Afaik analog range has been fixed for a long time. You can fire up a test rom in the n64 core to verify, should be around +-85 on n64. Modern controllers use +-127.

[fiery grove]

thanks, i'll try it

[fiery grove]

yeah i remember that the fix was limiting the "extra" range of modern controllers to be less sensitive more like the original

[hidden bolt]

The patch was only for the crash not the music. It doesn't crash in the usual spot I was testing when I made the patch, but I can try your save file later. Maybe I can play around with the values in the patch some more using this save file.

[weary perch]

hey, thanks for looking at it

[quick light]

Maybe something has changed or some regression in the core?

[hidden bolt]

I only tested BH2 in one specific spot so there could still be some crashes, don't think anything changed in the core.

[weary perch]

alright, so we can test this pretty quick. there are two reproducible crashes, one at the S.T.A.R.S. door upstairs in the mansion on the left wing, and one in that hallway i showed in my screenshot where the licker first attacks

i'm guessing the former* is what you checked previously

it also did randomly crash as well iirc

[hidden bolt]

I only checked a random crash on the third screen after starting a new game for all versions, The crash in the save file seems to be consistent so it might have a different cause. Maybe related to music not working? I think the NTSC version was pretty thoroughly tested so BH2 might be more sensitive to timings or it might be a different problem altogether. I could have a look at the consistent crash for BH2 at some point.

[blazing anvil]

Could you give more details please? How would you verify having the correct range?

[lament escarp]

There are n64 roms for testing purposes, like https://github.com/wermipls/mimi that tell you the range and let's you test all sorts of stuff.

You load it just like any other game in the n64 core.

In the mister main menu you also have a input test utility under utility, that one can also tell you your stick range but won't be affected by the n64 range fix.

[blazing anvil]

Thanks learned something new. I want to compare the 8bitdo replacement sticks to OEM while I still have decent controllers

[lament escarp]

👍

[blazing anvil]

I'm sure this is a somewhat daft question but what's up with all the game patches? Isn't the console recreated on a logic level? Or are these timing related issues because the bandwidth of the SDRAM isn't enough but the DDR is shared with the OS, leading to contention

[zinc dew]

I don’t think there’s a lot of patches, just a small handful for the most difficult to emulate games. I believe it’s due to timing as some games like Conker would crash very inconsistently.

I think that was likely the best solution they felt possible. It was either patching them so they’re playable and make that an automated process or spend months and months trying to get it fully ironed out or maybe not at all due to limitations.

[hidden bolt]

We found the problem for Conker so that is was fixed in the core, but yeah just a handful of games like jet force gemini that has a specific memory timing check (potentially anti piracy).

[weary perch]

the core pushes the limits of the DE-10 nano in several ways. mostly it still ends up nigh-identical to an N64, but some games are very, very picky

[zinc dew]

Oh thanks for correcting me! Was it audio related?

[hidden bolt]

no a instruction cache thing iirc

[weary perch]

and the patches are really mostly minor things too, you can see a list of them here: https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?t=8078

like batman beyond just has a framelimiter that was already present in the game enabled for regular gameplay

[blazing anvil]

Ah that's SO interesting. That's why change in memory type means a lot of work. Starting to get the picture

[weary perch]

we still haven't seen an emulator that can flawlessly replicate every nuance of N64 hardware performance... that said, the MiSTer core is damn close

[lament escarp]

Remember: "N64 emulation is still a mess in 2025" according to sources.

[weary perch]

there's a video that made the rounds not too long back that shows how DKR is timing sensitive enough that it desyncs not only when comparing MiSTer to real hardware, but even comparing the game running from Everdrive 64 X7 to a retail cart

and the same is true with SummerCart 64 vs retail cart

[blazing anvil]

I'm doing a little subjective experiment of myself too. Anyone familiar with PD challenge 20 knows it's the hardest one (with the fast movement combat in sewers). I can't beat the level anymore after like 50 tries. So I either got old and slow, the 23ms added by my TV is killing me or ... I'm setting up the old tv and if I beat it there I'll need a new OLED 😁

[mossy vector]

Change the ingame screen resolution. There are some target practice challenges like that too.

[blazing anvil]

What do you mean by that? I'm running out 720p60 from the MiSTer

[mossy vector]

Do you understand that perfect dark has widescreen or not options, or a low resolution mode.

Sometimes you need more framerate. Sometimes you need more lag

[blazing anvil]

Ha you mean in game options? I've never looked at those but I remember a display menu, vaguely

[mossy vector]

Yes. Rare timed challenges are so unfair you need to meta game or cheese them.

[blazing anvil]

I'm already running the turbo core and the performance NTSC rom. The latter could be the issue too of course. I've also made sure I have less than 2ms controller lag. So I'll narrow it down

[mossy vector]

Might be giving the ai too many cycles on turbo.

[blazing anvil]

Yeah I distinctly know a few spots on the level whenever I get there, I'd have a 50/50 chance of winning. I thought the core had restraints built-in to prevent games from running too fast or too slow

[mossy vector]

It's not that fine, and as I hinted before, on real hardware itself there is variance

[zinc dew]

I forgot to mention earlier but @hidden bolt is the badass who got patches in for fixing the last handful of games to work on the core. Another example of why the MiSTer community is the absolute best.

[hushed nova]

this community sucks it hasn't given me any money yet

[mortal panther]

I thought you did it all for the glory.

You've got tons of that!

[zinc dew]

Do you have a Patreon? I apologize if I haven’t called attention to it. I can do that.

[hushed nova]

no, I just expect people to send me checks in the mail

[tender pine]

💪 Flex

If you can top that any N64 aficionados...hats off to ya.

[lament escarp]

Do these paks have fram instead of sram? I enjoy similar cartridges for game boy, nice to finally have stuff that isn't a time bomb. 😅

[tender pine]

Exactly. That's the beauty of them.

[cyan surge]

It's interesting. Do you have the link to that video ?

[weary perch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVdWCzVis0

[tender pine]

What's the verdict?

[weary perch]

that even an everdrive on the same console desyncs from a retail cartridge eventually, let alone MiSTer

some games are just that finicky and timing dependent on N64. the slightest variance messes with it

[civic wind]

I’m still salty about getting to wiz pig and somehow my everdrive (well me really) messed up the save file

[tender pine]

Mister IS emulation. But here's the important bits. It's hardware emulation - essentially zero lag - running cores by exceptional and passionate developers that's so good it needs videos of this nature to show any small idiosyncrasies. N64 mister core thanks entirely to @wanton sun is for me the only way to play N64 in 2025.

[zinc dew]

This is why I say that the only most accurate testing can be done with a real cart on real hardware. A flash drive adds deviation that we can either identify or not identify.

But the bottom line only the original hardware and cartridges can provide true accuracy. Anything else is just an approximation and sometimes it’s a nearly identical approximation, but still not 100%.

Or I guess with the SNES even original hardware can deviate lol.

[vapid hawk]

are we sure the variance comes from the everdrive and just not random run-to-run variance?

[weary perch]

in this particular case yes

if you do multiple carts against each other they desync slowly, but in random directions

everdrive and mister always desync in the same direction from retail

(and summercart)

[vapid hawk]

interesting

[weary perch]

i don't know exactly why this happens but it is definitely interesting

[vapid hawk]

could this be improved on the flashcarts now its known?

summercart has quite active development still

[weary perch]

not sure, honestly

might be an interesting avenue to explore

the summercart test wasn't published, but one of the DKR discord members mentioned the results were similar to everdrive

[zinc dew]

But also like owning original carts and hardware is a luxury, especially having a CRT to test it on so sometimes that’s just not possible.

So flash carts are the only way to go and at the very least that’s probably like 99% accurate which is WAAAAAY more than good enough

[weary perch]

this is a pretty severe case, in most cases you probably wouldn't see these results

DKR is very finicky

i'd imagine other Rare games are probably similar

[zinc dew]

are we talking perf or gameplay HUAHUAHUA

[weary perch]

heh

Rare N64 performance is an infinite rabbit hole

c.f. goldeneye speedrunners staring at the ground the entire run

[vapid hawk]

have they tried staring at the sky instead? might be even faster

[weary perch]

yes, that is done occasionally but it is usually the ground for various nuanced reasons

[vapid hawk]

interior levels not having sky for one

[dusty tusk]

Every DKR cartridge is personalized

[wanton sun]

I don't see how the everdrive can cause this. Cartridge timing comes from the console itself, not from the cart

https://n64brew.dev/wiki/Peripheral_Interface#0x0460_00n4_-_PI_BSD_DOMn_LAT

The game tells that it wants to read 16 bit from cartridge after n cycles and the console will do it. If the cartridge provides the wrong data it will crash
No idea how this can lead to some offset

Only chance i see is with EEPROM or Flash delays, which i doubt will happen with the intro loop

If anyone has an idea what could be the reason, I would be glad to learn

[bright lotus]

It sucks that the only thing I can reliably verify for myself is PAL Perfect Dark and Goldeneye

On my Everdrive V3

[weary perch]

oh, the summercart test was published, just unlisted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6i_mzgcYDY

you might recognize the username there - https://github.com/FazanaJ - author of the DKR performance hacks and other N64 stuff

summercart actually ends up a little faster than everdrive, which is itself a little faster than oem

[bright lotus]

Holy shit summercart is faster

[weary perch]

and yeah, i have absolutely no idea how the game is so sensitive and to what exactly

but it's definitely an interesting test case

there is a decompilation in progress, maybe some insights there

https://github.com/DavidSM64/Diddy-Kong-Racing

getting closer there

Decomp progress: 96.77%
Documentation progress: 65.90%

oh the description of that video clarifies that the labels are actually wrong

the one labeled OEM is actually SC64 and vice versa

so summercart is actually marginally slower, and oem is the one that ends up desyncing ahead a bit

[bright lotus]

Dang it!

[weak hill]

i read in the summercart discord, that if you activate a "direct mode" you dont have any differences of timing, cause you dont load the menu, something like that, and it was confirmed by a diddy kong racing speed runner, before he activated the direct mode he got those timing differences, after activating it, it was = to original n64 console

[blazing anvil]

So it means the entire game runs a bit faster or slower? Does that mess up game play to a too large an extent?

[little socket]

If you have a menu, surely some cycles somewhere have to be sacrificed to make that happen during the runtime?

[weary perch]

hey that's super good info, i was personally curious about direct mode but i thought all it did was just load the last-played game without bringing you to the game selection menu. guess it does a little more than that

Fazana is the same person i was quoting in the DKR speedrunning discord, but searching for specific info on discord is a bit fraught ;_;

[vapid hawk]

that seems weird, its not like you can call up the menu ingame or anything

maybe it isnt possible to completely unload it when it launches a game

[weary perch]

this whole thing is very weird to me haha. i'm pretty sure you wouldn't see such behavior from most games

[inner bronze]

Anyone know if the Turbo Core is recommended/useable for MK64 Amped Up?

Having a bit of lag on the normal core with 3D models but it seems crisp without that

[mint shadow]

It is usable yes

[zinc dew]

I think you want to set it to original console in the initial settings, the game performed best for me with that

[mint shadow]

yes, don't use the 30/60fps emulator speed settings, it will not run properly under those settings

[inner bronze]

Yeah I did that, but that still enables 3d models and gave me some lag spikes

Maybe I should do a reset. I recall two settings

One being the Console/30fps/60fps setting in Settings. But also on Boot it asked if you were playing on a real N64

Im not sure if thats the same setting, as I answered No but the option was still set to Console

[zinc dew]

Yeah I think that

[mint shadow]

You can fine tune each individual setting, the question on boot is just a quick setup

[zinc dew]

Ohhh

[inner bronze]

Ah so its not its own setting

Ill have a looksie later

[mint shadow]

on the main title screen, you can access some quick settings. On the game select screen, you can press R to go to the extras menu which has the extended settings

[tender pine]

Question. Would if for example all or at least every major N64 game get a re/deomp, well, would that make you turn your back on N64 FPGA and originally hardware altogether?

[cyan dome]

no

[zinc dew]

No, I don’t want to play them on PC

[mint shadow]

I'm not touching the decomps at all, they don't look right to me and the MiSTer is just simpler

[tender pine]

Like with the existence of Ocarina, Majora's and Star Fox having native PC ports, do you see any good reason for playing them any other way?

[cyan dome]

to play the games like they were is very important to me

[tender pine]

I'm speaking for myself when I say playing the available N64 recomps makes it impossible to go back to either original hardware or mister.

[zinc dew]

If they were perfect ports, then objectively they would be the best way to play of course. The added resolution/framerate/QoL/modding features are incredible.

[cyan dome]

ive played recomps and its very easy for me to go back lol

[tender pine]

High resolution and arguably more importantly high frame rates.

[zinc dew]

I say “if they were perfect ports” because I assume they are but not sure

[cyan dome]

i do not care about objectivity i care about the art as it was made, sometime less is more, you can lose out on some really niche specifics

[tender pine]

Playing the MK64 recomp today at 120hz was just sublime.

[zinc dew]

Some games were built around low framerates but I think the Zelda decomps worked around it

[zinc dew]

I am in full agreement with you. I enjoy playing them as authentically original as possible.

But for someone who’s never touched an N64 I’d tell them to play the decomp.

[tender pine]

All that N64 re and decomps I've played have spoiled me.

[cyan dome]

i dont hate recomps i like recomps but i crave authenticity

[zinc dew]

I think it’s extremely impressive how they came about.

[tender pine]

https://youtu.be/awcFpg_BG38?si=QVGqOhFa1OdxiKVG

[cyan dome]

i want to play the art that was made and was celebrated at that time not someone else making improvements and fixing it

ratios I think are something underdiscussed when it comes to video game artistic intent, for many games framing can be quite important

[tender pine]

A arguably even better example is if anybody has played the Perfect Dark PC port. Going back to the N64 version feels very, very rough.

[cyan dome]

i have done this but i am brave and love low framerates now

[mint shadow]

I actually really like Virtual Hydlide, low framerates and all

[tender pine]

I'm as big a fan as anybody but how can you possibly play some of these mentioned ports and go back to the originals? It is the originals only improved on in every single way.

[cyan dome]

anyhow i was going to talk about remasters of old tv shows and stuff like Star Trek TNG and Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but this is all based on memory so yeah. Star Trek TNG was remastered and re-edited from the orginal film, but since it was edited on tape they had to re-do effects and the editing. They had a choice to adapt it into 16:9 or keep the original 4:3, and I remember reading that they didnt want to go with 16:9 because there were cameras and boom mics showing up near the edges of the film that wouldnt show up when originally airing

[tender pine]

Sorry, but poor analogy.

[cyan dome]

perfect dark is a great game any way you play but it is very interesting on N64 because it pushes that hardware in specific ways, and you lose out on that specific artistry and technical achievements when running it on better hardware

[zinc dew]

My two cents, I don’t think you need to justify your opinion @cyan dome but I do enjoy reading it.

[mortal panther]

Mario Kart at 144 Hz at 1440p ultrawide is fun... but just as something different and new to experience for a while.
The original is where it's at, and MiSTer is the mutt's nuts at handling that.

[cyan dome]

im not done making my point yet about ratios! Lot's of art is presented in specific ratios, and buffy the vampire slayer is another show of that era that was made on film and remastered, but they actually did expand that into 16:9, and thus has framing issues and mics showing up in the frame and whatnot. Expanding the frame for art where you weren't meant to see outside those borders can be a downgrade

[dusty tusk]

Honestly depends on the game. I feel like I have more of a tolerance for low res/framerate on slow paced third person games than first person or racing games. I only play Doom on modern ports.

[cyan dome]

its easier to show where things go wrong with film restorations but video games have specific framings too and software emulators and recomps often encourage the dismantlement of the original frame in favor of expanding to your screen, and while I'm not saying this is bad or evil or anything, I do encourage thinknig about that when playing video games

another fun example, look at seinfeld and friends and 90s sitcoms in widescreen! notice how the actors hang out in the middle of the screen with the sides often being empty

while in 4:3 they would be filling the frame without the empty space

video games can be like this too!

playing No One Lives Forever is a video game that makes me think about that because if you play that game in widescreen you will often see things you're not supposed to in the sides, especially in cutscenes

[quick light]

Il give you 2 cents if you release that Gamecom core

[vapid hawk]

yeah its extremely rare for any kind of widescreen patch/hack to actually like, reframe everything correctly to match

only silent hill 2 comes to mind

[bright lotus]

It is very tough to go back to N64 PD after the decomp

Or even the gcc recompilation

Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes is another hot example, devs were aggressively culling just on the sides of the screen and you see that exposed in 16:9

[weak hill]

im glad to help

[worn delta]

Are there any recomps made to play on an N64 that have a noticeable improvement for the games that have been decomped and recomped?

I.e. are there a recomps of the Zelda games that have a better frame rate?

[vapid hawk]

there's the goldeneye/pd ones

sorry just pd

[blazing anvil]

I still have a reservation the game is a bit too fast in the turbo core. I'm slowly (spare time is scarce) investigating it

[chilly ember]

Goldeneye decomp gotta be getting to being now though right?

[vapid hawk]

i'd love to see someone do a recomp of OOT that boosts it to 30fps but i'm guessing its not easy

[tepid shuttle]

doesn't ship of harkinian already support uncapped fps

[vapid hawk]

there are quite a few mario64 patches based around the decomps

[worn delta]

Hmm, struggling to find any update of Goldeneye decomp

[stone pilot]

it's pretty rare

[worn delta]

Sadly looks like Animal Forest is inactive/not-much-progress

[tender pine]

Forget Animal Forest, for now at least. Bring your attention over to the PC port of Dinosaur Planet that was cancelled but essentially complete for N64. Check that out for some N64 sunken treasure.

[iron wren]

AC is decomped, a good chunk of the game logic might match the AF decomp

[mortal panther]

Decomps are cool AF.

[quick light]

Yes they are

[junior pine]

Indeed, I have Mario 64, Zelda OOT, Majora's and Mario Kart 64 all running natively on GNU/Linux with a light Wayland desktop, at true 1080p resolution and 120 Hz. It's just perfect, a dream made reality.
Sometimes I just load them to watch them and enjoy the pure amazing sensation of having those games looking so perfect.

[dusty tusk]

Crazy how Linux is now the best place to play games

[gilded whale]

I’m just gonna say this for anybody who didn’t know, but there’s an English patch for custom robo v2 (as well as the first one by a separate team I think) I thought it was cancelled years ago, but it’s been floating around

[tepid shuttle]

damn i never knew there was a patch for v2? i'll have to check that out

[gilded whale]

As far as I can tell it’s not fully complete, but the story is done

And there are reports of people finishing it, I haven’t played enough to know what isn’t finished

(The name entry screen was still in Japanese)

[zinc dew]

Which game is better

[gilded whale]

Not sure. I used to always to fumble with this game though (v2) in Japanese when it was on the virtual console. It was good times

This game makes me wonder why there wasn’t a full fledged Pokémon rpg on 64

[zinc dew]

Cause RPGs are hard to do I guess and they probably didn’t want to take any attention away from the game boy games

[gilded whale]

Maybe, but at that age that might have made me buy a 64

Plus the 64 desperately needed rpgs

[mossy vector]

RPGs were FMVs in that era.

I think it took until the GBC/GBA that RPGs became card battle games.

[zinc dew]

Not according to Yamuchi lol

"[People who play RPGs are] depressed gamers who like to sit alone in their dark rooms and play slow games," he noted in a 1999 interview. Yamauchi - who incidentally has prided himself on the fact that he has never played a videogame - went on to call RPGs as a whole both "silly and boring."

[gilded whale]

I mean, he’s not wrong lol

[visual sage]

I still do not get this thing.

[turbid warren]

Yamauchi was all "ew, video games? not even once"

[visual sage]

Also damm you Alex for writing your name on the controller.

[gilded whale]

Yamauchi then proceeded to do a sick wheelie on his dirt bike

[visual sage]

(8Bitdo Modkit in case you’re confused about where the cable is)

[zinc dew]

What’s not to get, it has buttons and sticks

[gilded whale]

Oh I thought it was the Alex mod kit

[visual sage]

I’m not sure one exists.

[zinc dew]

Bing bang Mario go wahoo

[gilded whale]

East side Mario’s

Ehh Bada boom bada bing

[visual sage]

Also, where’s that controller test rom I’ve seen like a couple dozen times by now?

[zinc dew]

https://github.com/sanni/controllertest/tree/master/N64-Port

https://github.com/wermipls/mimi

I forgot which one people like more

I don’t know if it matters, both are good

[mortal panther]

You need to hold it correctly.

[visual sage]

🫲✋🫱

[gilded whale]

The n64 was right before ergonomics were invented

[visual sage]

✋︎❼︎💣︎ ☠︎⚐︎🕈︎ 💧︎☟︎✌︎❄︎❄︎☜︎☼︎☜︎👎︎ ✌︎👍︎☼︎⚐︎💧︎💧︎ ❄︎✋︎💣︎☜︎ ✌︎☠︎👎︎ 💧︎🏱︎✌︎👍︎☜︎📪︎ ☺︎⚐︎✡︎📬︎

[gilded whale]

If a controller prior to that was comfortable it was purely by accident and not an intentional design choice

[visual sage]

Sony invented ergonomics.

[gilded whale]

People started showing up to their office jobs with their spines coming out of their bodies

Gamers wrists were twisted up like curly noodles

[visual sage]

It looks fine.

Not perfect in the bottom corners tho.

Seems to be slightly misaligned, as I can get the OEM shape, but it’s not at the notches, which does add up with the more GameCube style ring this mod has.

Plus MiSTer mapping when I think about it tbh.

[visual sage]

Right, rumble doesn’t work because only Xinput supports rumble, and the modkit supports either Switch or Dinput, so no rumble with this thing.

[snow gulch]

Is 64 8bitdo controller fine on Mister?

Is it the best controller right now?

[tender pine]

Its fine in general. The 'best' controller still by some distance is a good condition OEM via snac or the like. Nothing yet has come close to replicating it. That and many of the N64 games were designed around it's ergonomics and button placement, particularly z-trigger on the back.

[lament escarp]

If you wanna go wireless I like the intec modkit. Stick is closer to the original and no issues with rumble.

[snow gulch]

ok, thanks for the info

[tender pine]

Anybody know if a usb mouse would work via N64 core so you could use Mario Paint 64DD?

[bright lotus]

exact same as my two other sticks

it gets overcorrected to be oversensitive on MiSTer though

[visual sage]

If you want rumble+the og layout, then SNAC is the only option, since DInput and Switch Controller Protocol don’t support rumble.

Because MiSTer still thinks that all you need is an SNES controller (so no rumble needed), when you need a lot more nowadays.

Am I alone in seeing the 8Bitdo’s or NSO controller’s rumble not being supported being more of a MiSTer issue at this point then a controller issue?

[bright lotus]

I was going to check this out

then I realized that I have no idea how to launch an .ndd game

but this was a very funny way to discover that I can use mouse in all n64 games!

(crank it to max sensitivity and bear with analogue curve)

[weary perch]

"Saffun" (etc.) does rumble in the OG layout

i don't necessarily recommend them due to reliability issues but they're usable

as far as the 8bitdo 64, i believe for me personally it's the best modern controller for N64. i've used it on MiSTer wired and on N64 using BlueRetro and i'm very impressed with it. I've set several personal best times in Excitebike, which is very touchy with input

[visual sage]

Oh, right.

[visual sage]

I still think that after the Switch 2 has come out, it’s a bit odd that MiSTer still only supports rumble via XInput, and nothing else.

[bright lotus]

this mouse feels TERRIBLE

I just remembered that Uncle Derek got an actual N64 mouse peripheral that came with Mario Talent studio and it basically works by emulating an N64 stick with B/A buttons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38u010d02E8

you get a bit more mileage on MiSTer with different P1>Mouse settings (and raising DPI on gamer mice) but it is so damn rigid and feels nowhere near as good as SNES mouse did

[turbid warren]

there's a later video where Derek uses the N64 mouse on Mario Artist and it felt worse than just a regular ass controller lol

[tepid shuttle]

i wonder if there's an adapter to use a regular mouse on the n64? maybe raphnet has something like that

[bright lotus]

there's an arduino nano project for something like that

[cyan dome]

there was a snes mouse to n64 mouse adapter at some point

[tender pine]

☝️ when and where??

https://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/snes2n64/index.php

This of which you speak?

[cyan dome]

yeah it probably was if it mentions mouse support

it was raphnet for sure

[amber fjord]

New: Since firmware version 1.3, the SNES mouse is also supported, providing an alternative to the rare and expensive N64 mouse.

[solar slate]

never knew the n64 mouse was expensive

[cedar forge]

the NSO controller rumble works for me over bluetooth, or is it wired that doesn’t work?

[worn delta]

I'm not sure what you mean by this, I use a USB SN30 Pro and it has supported rumble fine since it was implemented years ago. Is there something MiSTer is missing support for that could be added?

[hushed nova]

the n64 core only rumbles one motor when it does rumble. the driver for the nintendo controllers (nso n64 etc) rumbles the 'right' joycon for one motor and the 'left' for the other. I think some controllers (n64) only respond to one 'side'

I think it's probably best to modify the driver since I don't think the 'left/right' thing actually makes sense on some of the controllers. I need to test on something NotLinux tho

[little socket]

Wouldnt it be eqsier to just let both just rumble from core site?
Or am I missremembering and n64 had more than one motor?

[mossy vector]

N64 had one motor, full speed on or off. To run both motors full speed on another controller would be irresponsible and irritating. But I don't think that was the reason only one motor runs.

Now, I'm sure there are pulse patterns (sigh) to lessen the intensity per game. I'm saying the hardware itself is motor on or off (from an address bit, of all things, originally meant for the memory pak, because rumble was never thought of when the pad was designed).

[weary perch]

the OEM rumble pak is notably stronger in intensity than most modern pads

also many games do pulse it when they use it, it's extremely strong to leave it

star fox leaves it on for a bit when you take a hit and it's pretty loud and aggro

probably not actually stronger, but the use of it is very binary as you noted

[mossy vector]

Missing the point as, how can rumble be better. My suggestion is give options in the mister.ini

I was heading that way

[hushed nova]

the ini can't cover all the weird stuff cores can do. in this case maybe a core option. but honestly I think the way the driver handles rumble on controllers like the nso n64 is a legitimate bug

[mossy vector]

In mister.ini file: Digital rumble on from core = this controller's analog rumble valve. Tell me what in missing?

Yeah. Likely lots of unintended behavior. For some reason on the mister menu, the new 8bitdo 64 controller vibrates. Much room for improvement.

[hushed nova]

well for one do you want to edit your ini every time you change controllers? there's no easy 'per controller' ini setting mechanism. and there's no mechanism to detect 'digital rumble' without just making assumptions in main

[little socket]

Just let it go full throttle and let peiple use the n64 core as an unteractive vibrator control

[mossy vector]

Do cores send a numeric value for rumble?

[hushed nova]

a combined 16 bit number split 8/8

[mossy vector]

So one byte left motor, other byte right?

[hushed nova]

yeah

[wanton sun]

Best to add a 16 bit OSD option with all the options. Zakk will optimize the OSD string operation to make this possible 😛

[lament escarp]

Thanks zakk! ❤️

[green epoch]

What a guy

[tender pine]

I don't know what the thread or topic of conversation is but will only say thanks also Zakk.

[magic girder]

Thanks Zakk

[zealous knot]

Sorry if it's been asked, but the N64 2x that was added to 'other cores' is that just the N64 turbo core that's been around for a while if you manually add? Any updates to it or just made it easier for people to access?
Also the ps 2x same thing? And tangentally the genesis 2+ core, know where I can find info as to what's different with that? Thanks

[zenith orchid]

there's an N64 2x???

also I never heard of the Genesis 2+ core. I gotta look into this

[hushed nova]

it's just the old megadrive core?

[zinc dew]

Yes correct. @zenith orchid it's just the old Genesis core that's been deprecated.

[zenith orchid]

Ohhh

And I guess by N64 2x they meant N64 80Mhz

[hushed nova]

yes

[weak hill]

guys probably not the right place to ask

but do you know anyone or a discord channel where i can ask why my cpu 16 cores, is showing in cpu z only 2 cores 4 threads? new installation

[zinc dew]

Wha

Is this N64 related?

[languid dune]

He said "z". The N64 controller has a z button. Checks out.

[tepid shuttle]

have you tried turning it on and off again

[wanton sun]

Fix for the crash in Biohazard 2. All credit goes to @hidden bolt for finding the root cause of the issue. (access at the very end of the 64Mbyte ROM)
The core until now only supported 63.99Mbyte roms. Now it does support also larger than 64mbyte in theory.

(testbuild is without Pauls fixes for blanks, so please wait for a full release unless you want to play BH2)

[hushed nova]

I was being robbed of .01Mbyte!

[quick light]

That's great news! I believe I opened up that issue on GitHub so I guess it can be removed or solved or whatever.

The only other issue I remember with Biohazard 2 was the audio. Tracks not playing and kendos gun shop audio looping until you save and load. (Which then results back to no music)

[hidden bolt]

audio was also fixed with this, or at least in the start after a new game

[weary perch]

wow, thanks y'all! amazing work

[quick light]

Oh sweet mate. Thank you kindly. If you want I can test it out soon.

Currently playing Leon B on the PSX core but ive never completed the N64 version.

[quick arch]

is it help also COnker's ?

Thank you 🙂

[hidden bolt]

conker was already fixed last year

[quick arch]

Ok thanks !

[polar raft]

Rumble works fine with OEM N64 controllers via a Raphnet USB adapter, no SNAC required

[quick arch]

So we could now removed those lines from N64-database ?

b04f298721223a22e1150cebc712ee6a pal|cic7101|sram32k|rpak|p4:fbfb57a3|p5:1c71c65a|p277c:00100320|p277d:ffff6320|p277e:feff6014|p2780:0800e003|p399e:d5ede013 # Resident Evil 2 (Europe) (En,Fr)
f77d70959222276491222f31ebff3bf1 ntsc|cic6102|sram32k|rpak|p4:baff5b7f|p5:967cdce6|p27a0:00100320|p27a1:ffff6320|p27a2:feff6014|p27a4:0800e003|p39c2:d5ede013 # Resident Evil 2 [Biohazard 2] (Japan)
dd21150cbc21c05420304599ec57411c ntsc|cic6102|sram32k|rpak|p4:faff79ab|p5:cb4f8da7|p2784:00100320|p2785:ffff6320|p2786:feff6014|p2788:0800e003|p39a6:d5ede013 # Resident Evil 2 (USA)
1add2c0217662b307cdfd876b35fbf7a ntsc|cic6102|sram32k|rpak|p4:82ffd961|p5:713a8c42|p2784:00100320|p2785:ffff6320|p2786:feff6014|p2788:0800e003|p39a6:d5ede013 # Resident Evil 2 (USA) (Rev 1)

[visual sage]

What does that mean?

[quick arch]

it is auto patch for compatibility with the core
; N64 game patches to increase N64 Core compatibility
; Source: https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?t=8078

[visual sage]

Oh ok.

[hidden bolt]

no, this doesn't fix the random crashes addressed by the patches

[quick light]

Just loaded the core and the game up and audio is playing fine. Il see if I can try and complete Claire A asap.

The police station ground floor music sounds amazing as always.

And sweet. No issues with the first licker either. Thank you very much for sorting the issues out and fixing them rather fast 🙂

[hidden bolt]

thanks for testing the crashes

[blazing anvil]

I noticed something odd too. I tried it with the combat simulator stats save game data for Perfect Dark. If you rename the PAL .eep to the NTSC .eep it works. The player stats can be loaded in the NTSC version of the game. However, this doesn't work for the .cpk data (which contains the same data, nothing more nothing less, I made sure of that). Sooo bug or N64 thing. Who could help me verify?

I verified the .cpk md5. The NTSC game just doesn't see the data when it originates from the PAL version of PD. Only test I can think of is to copy the identical .eep in game to the controller pack. Then extract the controller pack data and save to my computer. Doing this both for PAL and NTSC I could then hex compare and maybe find some difference in a header or so

[wanton sun]

that is exactly what I would do to understand the difference

Best to have 2 identical saves from both versions

[vapid hawk]

thats awesome news about biohazard2, i always thought it was weird the issues in that game were so consistently reproducible

[zealous knot]

Can it do anything the current core can't? Save states?

[zinc dew]

It can turn off sprite limits which breaks some games and can increase CPU speed which benefits some games.

I forgot what else.

It’s the older core that’s been replaced by the new Mega Drive core.

[zealous knot]

And is the N64 2 the same as the 80mhz that I've manually installed? Any updates?

[tepid shuttle]

adaptive composite blend

why the vomit reacts lol

[mortal panther]

The effect is atrocious. 😄

[tepid shuttle]

it works. selectively

personally i don't use it but if it functioned more consistently i could see myself leaving it on

[mortal panther]

I think I've found only one or two games where it works effectively... Crusader of Centy being one of the best examples.

In almost all cases though, it applies the effect where it shouldn't, and in areas where you think the effect should be applied, it doesn't. It just does too much weird stuff.

[tepid shuttle]

yeah hence my above comment lol

that being said, i still enjoy the extra sprites and turbo functions

[mortal panther]

True

[zinc dew]

There’s this too down little shooter with a magic person

I forgot the name

It works there too I think

[tepid shuttle]

undead line?

[mortal panther]

I think that's the other I was thinking of, but couldn't remember the name either.

[tepid shuttle]

or elemental master

[zinc dew]

no it’s got a silly name

magical beaver time

Something like that

[tepid shuttle]

i cannot say i recall playing a genesis game by that name

[zinc dew]

waku waku beaver ippatsu chan

It’s called Twinkle Tale

I had to turn on my MiSTer, sorry for the delay

[tepid shuttle]

lol

[mortal panther]

I keep referring to this example screenshot comparison I made a while back highlighting the weirdness of Adaptive Blend. In the far right shot, it's either half applied to the areas where the checkerboard patterns are (shadows of the cliffs on the grass) or not applied at all (top of the temple).
Another benefit of composite blending is that it gives the perception of increased color palette like in the middle image, but that's not happening at all in the far right image.
The large flat tops of the plateaus consist of exactly two colors, but the dominant color in those same areas in the middle image is an additional third color that appears to be the average of those two colors. It's a nice effect to give the illusion that the console/game is producing more colors. A similar effect is happening with the grass and water.

[tepid shuttle]

that one is good

[mortal panther]

Even just booting up the Sega CD BIOS screen, it does weird stuff to the edges of the large white letters against a solid black background, and that makes no sense...

[tepid shuttle]

i don't understand exactly how it works but looking at the end product it's clear that it's very inconsistent

not sure how it could be improved without doing it on a game-by-game basis, which is obviously a monumental task

[mortal panther]

If it worked consistently in a manner that made sense, I'd probably use it all the time... but with CRTs, it was all or nothing anyway. Those weren't selective. 😉

[vapid hawk]

i can't believe we've all been playing a nintendo63.99 core this whole time

[mortal panther]

I don't feel so 'ultra' now...

[lament escarp]

Full N64 wasn't possible after all.

[vapid hawk]

until today!

[lament escarp]

I liked Quest 63.99. Heard bad things about Quest 64 though.

[mossy vector]

@wanton sun With 128 MB SDRAM, what is the new ROM size limit?

[blazing anvil]

Right, I'll give that a go. Fully expect a difference.

[wanton sun]

in theory it would be 112 MByte, but there could be more limits, e.g. the fast rom copy. I didn't check them, but feel free to try

[magic girder]

Didn’t the Mario builder 64 rom need a bigger cart size or something once upon a time?

(I don’t remember)

[modern leaf]

@zinc dew - How close would you say the Miser n64 core is to real hardware for Perfect Dark? I am playing it for the first time and was really surprised how bad the FPS drop. I fired it up in Mupen in retroarch and it is night and day. Going to dig out my n64 real hardware to compare but was curious what your thoughts were.

[chilly ember]

Turbo core is better frame rate wise

There's a patch that removes the TLB that will give better frame rate too, it just has a bug on the Carrington institute level where the bomb doesn't get planted so can't finish the level

[vapid hawk]

still, i'd guess mupen is running it way too fast and mister is closer or matching real hardware

[modern leaf]

I would agree on Mupen

[vapid hawk]

n64 emulators dont even try to match real hardware performance

[modern leaf]

it is running at what feels like 50-60fps easily at times

My n64 is boxed up so I was curious

[vapid hawk]

yeah 0% chance of that on real hardware heh

try 5-6fps 😄

[modern leaf]

crazy fun game though

ok that was my mistrer exp lol

felt like 10 fps

[vapid hawk]

yeah its great especially with the dual-stick control mode you can do

although, if you really want to enjoy it, tbh play it on xbox. 1080p60 w/ 4xMSAA is really nice

[mild widget]

Wtf for 27 years I never knew you could change the pitch of the ocarina by moving the stick

https://youtube.com/shorts/ZUuX0cqvRCs?si=rG2gOAMCXTV3O7-p

[vapid hawk]

oh also make sure you dont have the hi-res mode on in the perfect dark options, that makes it even slower

[mild widget]

[vapid hawk]

i cant remember what the default is

yeah you can hold Z and R to do, something else too iirc

[zinc dew]

Felt pretty accurate but I haven't compared in a while. What situation were you in that you felt the FPS was super low?

[modern leaf]

First level when you get to the night vision scene, frames were massively tanking and the Windmill area was really bad, felt like 5-10 most of the time.

Not complaining, was just curious b/c Mupen makes it tolerable 🙂

[blazing knot]

I mean, perfect dark is well known for it’s low frame rates. It was pushing the hardware to its absolute limits

[magic girder]

The low framerates are why I’m here

[wanton sun]

Is there any software emulator that takes rendering timing into account now? Early 2024 there have been none to my knowledge, all draw in zero time, only CPU would take time and RSP for the better ones like Ares.

[quick light]

@wanton sun (figured I'd tag you here too)

Yeah I've not came across any issues so far with Biohazard 2 now. Tracks are playing and not had any crashes yet. (Currently on Claire A).

A quick question though. Hopefully once the fixes for Biohazard gets pushed into the official N64 core. Could we see the fixes also implemented in the N64 Turbo core? The N64 Turbo core really shines with RE2/Biohazard 2 especially when there's a lot of zombies on the screen. (Like I'm the beginning)

[wanton sun]

yes, just needs to be merged and then it has to be build...summer is not a good time for 50+ builds

[quick light]

Great. Thank you very much.

(I can't wait for winter myself. I hate the heat)

[wanton sun]

Summer is nice...if it stays outside 🙂

[quick light]

I just feel like I can't do much to combat the heat in my house apart from AC/Fans. Whereas if it's cold, I can just put more clothes/layers on.

[green epoch]

If you do the merges I will do the builds 🙂

[blissful plaza]

I'm doing some builds right now.

Let's see if I could achieve a core with some correct timings requirements.

[magic girder]

Seed 10

[blissful plaza]

Let's try with seed 10; all the others were drifting too much.
FPGAZumSpass version will might be better than mine.

[green epoch]

this has the paulb and rullset fixes?

[blissful plaza]

Yes, I integrated everything earlier.

[quick light]

Thank you Zet. When I next get on my Mister I'll give it a try.

[blissful plaza]

I will need people who know more about RE2 than me.

[hasty musk]

for what is that core? i mean what changes?

[vapid hawk]

carcinogen is on here sometimes, idk if he runs the n64 one though

@remote hatch biohazard2 (n64) testing needed 🙂

[blissful plaza]

I integrated the last changes from paulb-nl (Override Fixed blanks & Clean HDMI setting until VI generates a frame) and a fix for PI address area checks to support full 64mbyte and beyond (root cause and fix by Ruleset).

That should help RE2 quite a bit.

[vapid hawk]

thank you penny for bringing this up and re-testing the old bugs

[mild widget]

If your game doesn't tank to 13 FPS are you really playing N64? 🤣

[digital remnant]

no. but simple64 had some madeup ones i think

[zinc dew]

Anyone get Dezamon 3D working on the core?

[blissful plaza]

It should work, I'm testing Solid Gear right now.

[mint shadow]

I'm getting a Backup RAM Hardware fault error for Dezaemon 3D

[blissful plaza]

I tried only the JP original release, the fan translated version isn't on the database probably.

[drowsy lantern]

I’ve been out of the loop fighting cancer for quite a while. Is there a list of the games Ruleset has recently created patches for? Thanks!

[zinc dew]

I hope everything is going well for you!

Those patches are applied automatically. You can find the list here - https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?t=8078

Batman Beyond
Blues Brothers 2000
Jet Force Gemini
Knife Edge
Nintama Rantarou Game Gallery 64
Polaris Snocross
Resident Evil 2
Rugrats in Paris

[drowsy lantern]

Awesome, thanks so much! And yeah I should be fine. Did almost 3 months of chemo and currently recovering. Odds are 98%+ of full recovery. 🙏🏻

[zinc dew]

Congrats, dude! Glad to hear you’re kick it’s ass!

[compact depot]

Welcome back, buddy!!

[mellow raft]

Glad to hear you're recovering!

I'm guessing you were around when ruleset was making manual patches. They're no longer needed. The core was updated to support ROM patching from the n64-database file in addition to its previous functions. It also supports game ID's now instead of just ROM hashes.

So now all of ruleset's patches apply to all applicable roms including some popular conker hacks iirc. It will detect them and apply at launch. No pre-patching necessary.

So just run update_all to get the latest N64 database and you're good

[quick light]

So far it seems great. Il try and get to the licker (first crash). I can do more testing hopefully later on

Yep no crash at all with the first licker. So it seems like it's working absolutely fine. I can continue my Claire A save (that I made on the previous fixed Biohazard version of the core).

Music is playing in all the correct spots. I haven't tried RE2 (NTSC-U/PAL) version with either test core but I can do that later too.

[quick light]

I wasn't able to test anything to do with clean HDMI. As I need fixed blanks enabled to stop all the wonky resolution switching.

[quick light]

Right

I've beaten Claire A on Biohazard 2 with the core you linked @blissful plaza (N64_20250810.rbf). No issues with any of the audio tracks nor any crashing.

[blissful plaza]

So, I did the compilation well.

That's reassuring.

[quick light]

I do want to quickly compare the black borders on the side of the image though. Once the credits have finished.

I just noticed the right black border is slightly thicker than the left. But I'm guessing that's down to my integer scaling settings and resolution of the Mister.

The other slight issue that still persists but it's nothing to do with your core creation is this.

You see that white bar to the right? It only really appears at the first couple of sections then it goes. I'm also guessing that's down to my resolution aswell as scaling options.

[quick light]

(ignore that. The bars are symmetrical when the final ranking scene is shown. So that's probably due to my ini settings)

[vapid hawk]

this happens on real hardware

the bar on the righthand side of the screen, its well into the overscan zone

[drowsy lantern]

Oh I was around then! I was just wondering what were the latest games to benefit from automatic fixes. But thanks! 🙂

[mellow raft]

That forum post has the list 🙂

Gotcha

[green epoch]

Don't mind me, just trying to find a turbo core that meets timings...

[blissful plaza]

I was more lucky yesterday with only 16 cores compilations.

And seed 10 won, once again.

[lament escarp]

I believe humans have evolved to have 10 fingers specifically so they can count up to seed 10.

[wanton sun]

you will not find any turbo core that will meet timing. Try to get close to 4ns. Typical turbo core releases have been 4.1-4.3ns(on the 3 important clock domains)

[green epoch]

ahh ok, that makes more sense then :p

[wanton sun]

And don't toss the table too early...you can always have the scaler bug in the best build and need to use the second best. Had this every single time....

Thank you for sacrificing your room temperature for us 🙂

[green epoch]

yup yup. that was what was worrying me because I had gone 13 hours with no timing matches and thought "I am going to need more than one build of this...."

[quick light]

If either of you need someone to test the turbo core (With Biohazard 2). Just ping me and let me know 🙂

Always happy to test and help when I can.

[green epoch]

You were exactly the person I had in mind

[quick light]

I just really like Resident Evil 2.

[zinc dew]

I haven’t played Resident Evil 2 on the core in forever. Is the non-turbo core expected to have slowdown?

[spare meadow]

Both core show slowdowns for RE2. The turbo core is way better than vanilla

[zinc dew]

Did the original game have that slowdown? I am too lazy to cross reference and thus have become a hypocrite.

[spare meadow]

No, I played on original hardware to be sure and no sign of slowdowns

On Mister, the Turbo core is the best choice to play RE2. The vanilla core has more slowdowns and some graphics glitches that aren’t on Turbo

[lament escarp]

On mister, the ||psx|| core is the best choice to play RE2.

[blazing knot]

*until the Dreamcast core is finished

[bright lotus]

*until the game.com core is finished

[vapid hawk]

• until i release my GBC port of RE2

[zinc dew]

Thank you for the rundown!

[fossil umbra]

who do I know in the Seattle area who loves N64 and is around in mid/late August for no reason at all whatsoever?

[quick light]

It's a shame the PSX never got the randomizer mode that the N64 port got.

[quick light]

Haha. One day

[green epoch]

Am I looking at worst-case slack or FPGA_CLK1, 2 and 3?

[wanton sun]

these ones. First is RCP, second is CPU, third is DDR3.
Priority is: CPU highest, RCP second, DDR3 lowest to get a stable build

[green epoch]

got it, doing 50 builds now. lowest on the 20 builds I did earlier was 4.6

[quick light]

Currently continuing my PSX Leon B playthrough on RE2, it's so strange being able to read the files as they are now in English

[wanton sun]

could be the timing gets more and more difficult with latest changes and new framework

worst case the turbo build has to die

[green epoch]

https://tenor.com/bpjkH.gif

[mossy vector]

9/10 fitters quit right before they hit the jackpot

[spare meadow]

Oh no. Long live N64 Turbo Core!

[green epoch]

@blissful plaza do you need me to do a framework update on the main core?

[blissful plaza]

Do it.

[green epoch]

Best I could do is 4.470.. Can folks test these and let me know which ones work good?

[waxen oyster]

Any suggestions for games to stress test?

[green epoch]

Honestly I'm not sure what games show scaler issues with n64. With PSX it's bright multicolor stuff (like the cd player menu)

Robert would know for sure what to look for with it @wanton sun

[quick light]

Time for some RE2? Haha. Ive got a couple of N64 games I can use to test.

Will start to test in around 20 mins

[green epoch]

start with (I think) seed 43. whatever is the 4.4 one. That will be the closest to timing

[lean sable]

I jumped back and forth from seed 43 and seed 10 on perfect dark multiplayer for a bit and seed 43 seemed to perform smoother.

[quick light]

Currently testing seed 43 and no issues with the music or the licker crash in Biohazard 2.

[mint shadow]

playing around with sm64, pilotwings, rogue squadron, and turok 3, I haven't seen any issues with seed 43

[green epoch]

can you confirm it's the turbo core (I'm still dumb when it comes to working with branches)

I'm fairly certain it's the turbo core

[quick light]

One monent

I can confirm it with Biohazard 2.
Non-turbo core = 23/24fps when moving into the 2nd scene.

Official turbo core = solid 30fps

Your turbo core (seed43) = solid 30 fps

[quick light]

Yep it is the correct turbo core

[green epoch]

[quick light]

Hopefully Robert can get back to us with games to easily test

[magic girder]

Seed 43

[zinc dew]

@worn delta for your visibility

[sullen harbor]

Immediate Note?
Glitching in majora's mask menus

switched back to old core

no longer glitching

I mean RE2 on N64 is the worst version so I doest matter to me

[languid dune]

RE2 N64 is best version because it has non-tank controls! 🤘

[turbid warren]

tank controls are good in games with static camera angles so you can just keep going forward when you hold the forward button imo

[sullen harbor]

Static camera games are meant to be played with a dpad. Playing on analogue without the correct stick sensitivity feels like sludge

[green epoch]

main menu or in game?

[sullen harbor]

Main Menu

[green epoch]

Looks ok here. Can anyone confirm?

or maybe I just am missing it and the menu is a completely different color than what it's supposed to be

[lean sable]

Looks fine to me as well

[green epoch]

if you have a save @sullen harbor that may help in case it's related to that - I assume you're using the US rom?

[sullen harbor]

Yes. But no save needed. It literally is just on the main menu without anything loaded

@green epoch

[green epoch]

shit, that's definitely a scaler thing

let me see if I can reproduce it on another mister

[sullen harbor]

I got a stupid question about the scaler. If I run in direct video mode, does that bypass the scaler entirely

[sullen harbor]

Just FYI its a new DE-10 nano running a dual ram set up from about 2023

[green epoch]

That's actually a really good question. One for Zakk. You bypass the scaling but not the scaler bugs, I think?

[sullen harbor]

ah

[green epoch]

yup, I see it on my de10 dual ram

now i'm curious....

[sullen harbor]

checking single ram config? Or mister-pi?

[green epoch]

whenever it works on a mister pi but fails on a de 10 a (and now qmtech) my brainworms start trying to connect dots

[sullen harbor]

so it is working on a Mister-pi?

[green epoch]

yep

[sullen harbor]

Fuck Do I Need to buy a mister pi?

[green epoch]

Completely unrelated. Can you run this core and try megaman X2? Just let it sit and see if it crashes

[sullen harbor]

how long do I have to wait

I got to go start making dinner at some point and I don't want to be sitting around for like an hour

Oh wait it happened

[sullen harbor]

yes it does occur

[blissful plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/we-got-one-annie-potts-janine-melnitz-ghostbusters-gif-26581466

Sorry, I had to.

[green epoch]

Well my theory was not proven :(. My other DE10s are fine

oh well

[sullen harbor]

Megaman x2 does not load at all on The 7_23 core from unstable either
BUT it does run on SA1 core

[green epoch]

yeah

there is something there. paul is working on it with SRG

Can folks move to this core then?

[sullen harbor]

Is that another 80mhz core?

or standard

[sullen harbor]

Is there something different about the config of those DE10s. Single ram. Newer ram. etc

If its tied to ram

then maybe there can be something put in the 80 mhz core that makes sure the second ram stick is never accessed

[hushed nova]

it's not a dual sdram core, it already is not accessing it

[sullen harbor]

mm

[hushed nova]

when you're on the edge of timing sometimes the difference between failing and not is just fpga silicon lottery

[green epoch]

its another turbo core

timing is a little worse

[sullen harbor]

Sat watching the screen for 5 minutes nothing glitchy happening

[sullen harbor]

Video evidence Seed 10 working on mine

Hmm. I wonder if the seed itself has some effect

But yeah at least no glitching at that stage @green epoch

I wonder if it's tied to the new framework

[green epoch]

no, this core is just picky

the turbo core, as robert mentions, never meets timings, so there are no guarantees that it's going to work properly on every system (not that meeting timings guaratees that...but that's another topic). So we try to get as close to it meeting timing as possible. Seed 43 was 4.443ns and seed 10 is 4.673ns. so it's a little worse, but it may work better for everyone

[sullen harbor]

framerate is slightly more unstable on this core from testing
If flickers between 59/60 on the main menu of majoras mask and 19/20 in game a bit more frequently than the 2024 december core that I was playing on previously

whether that makes a discernable difference in the long run is to be seen

switching back to my old core

[quick light]

Interesting that the seed 43 core works a bit better with the Pi compared to the DE 10 nano.

[green epoch]

some de 10s

2 of mine were fine

[quick light]

Oh? Interesting.

Well anyway, I do appreciate you trying to build these turbo cores and whatnot. I haven't got a clue in the slightest how it's done but from what I can gather. The turbo cores are a bit of a pain to get as stable as possible

[green epoch]

give [this one](#1096015979055697940 message) some reps and see if it's good for you

if you get a chance

[chilly ember]

I've been letting it run some game intros while doing things on my computer and haven't experienced anything game breaking

completed first level in megaman legends/64 and played through the matrix level in conker and didn't get a crash

[quick light]

Ok il download that now. Not sure when I can test. Wednesday is a bit of a busy day

[green epoch]

no worries

[wanton sun]

the game that was least stable for me with the turbo core has always been banjo tooie. I usually just let it run through the demo loop for 1 hour, then the turbo core build is pretty solid.

(or at least the cores I released after testing this have been well so far for plenty of people)

[bright lotus]

...so I am free for taking Blues Brothers I guess

[blissful plaza]

I left a ticket about the results of these tests on GitHub, I don't know if it's relevant to the core.

https://github.com/rasky/n64_pi_dma_test

[wanton sun]

the test is older and one of the reasons I gave up on improving the core.
The data tests should all be pass. The recent update only activates the timing test.
This timing test basically can be used as a way to see if the JFG copy protection can be passed, because if this test is passed, JFG would also pass the test.
Unfortunatly I tried all I could, but the random access timing of the DDR3 made it impossible for short transfer sizes to be as fast as required reliably.

[blissful plaza]

Thanks for your explanation.

[green epoch]

@blissful plaza I can't get a base n64 build that meets timings. can you try? the repo should be updated (including the sys update)

[wanton sun]

it does not pass

aim for <2 ns for the standard build

[green epoch]

oh interesting. i thought zet got one that passed yesterday. I think I had a couple that were that low, lemme look

[wanton sun]

in the beginning i made a version with the CPu running at 62.5mhz like the RCP runs, but as games will run worse and no one ever reported issues that could be explained with timing failure and the turbo builds runs great even with 4ns and more, I decided to rather run at original speed with the minimal risk

One example:

[green epoch]

is banjo the best test for the non-turbo core too?

I can just leave it running in the background while i work

[blissful plaza]

I failed to meet the timing requirements, but I selected one with the least drift from the target.

[green epoch]

aha

if folks can test that. it's the standard core with Paul's fix, ruleset's fix, and a sys update

[wanton sun]

I have not seen a single non-turbo core fail random due to timing like i have seen failed turbo cores with bad timing.
So any test is probably fine. The only thing to worry is probably the scaler issue

Setting my own limit to 2ns slack is arbitrary and just for releases to be kind of save for a large crowd

[green epoch]

are there any good tests (like the psx bios) for testing the scaler in N64?

[quick light]

Ty kindly mate. Not sure if I can test today but Il at least get it on my Mister (It's a Mister Pi)

[lean sable]

Seed 8 I get an orange line show up on the top left that kinda goes up and down on different screens that doesn't go away in gameplay

Scratch that I'm seeing it on the previous ones too

[lean sable]

I get slow motion on RE2 on the third frame you move to at the beginning with Leon.

[green epoch]

pretty sure that is expected

Penny would know for sure

[quick light]

You shouldn't on the turbo core

[lean sable]

Gotcha, yeah turbo works fine

[quick light]

One momento

Oh I'm sorry. Was you trying the normal non turbo core?

[lean sable]

I was on the seed 8 normal core yeah.

[quick light]

#1096015979055697940 message

That?

That should be turbo

Non-turbo core = 23/24fps when moving into the 2nd scene.

Official turbo core = solid 30fps

Jesus fish old turbo core (seed43) = solid 30 fps

That was the test results I did this morning with a different seed build

[lean sable]

Yup seed 8 above was normal core, just was browsing through some games on it and noticed. Didn't know it was to be expected on the normal core.

All good 💯

[quick light]

I'm confused now xD

So the seed 8 build is not turbo?

[quick light]

This is turbo core right?

Because if your getting a similar framerate to the results I posted just above. Dropping frames to around 23/24 for example. That isn't turbo core behaviour

[quick light]

Oh standard

Ignore me

[green epoch]

yeah, seed 8 is standard

[lament escarp]

All this talk about different seeds. If my seed can improve the n64 core I'm sure we can work something out.

[green epoch]

sorry

[lean sable]

Lol all good

[quick light]

I've been testing a lot of Turbo cores haha

So what's the difference between that seed 8 core and zet sensei core they posted the other day?

I need coffee

[quick light]

There's been a lot of previous discussions with the turbo core you see. I just automatically assumed it was about the turbo one. As I think we are still testing out Jesus fish's seeds

[green epoch]

sys update

[quick light]

Ah

[lean sable]

Yeah, I was testing them out yesterday and last night too. Turbo seed 43 works best for perfect dark for me but I guess it had issues with scalers but I use CRT so no biggie for me

[quick light]

I think I tested that seed too and it was fine on my mister pi

[lean sable]

I have a QMtech

[quick light]

Right so @green epoch . I'm testing both seed8 normal build and #1096015979055697940 message for turbo?

[green epoch]

Wrong savior

[quick light]

Need to find the right jesus

Apparently there's a few lord and saviours in this discord

[green epoch]

seed 8 = normal. seed 10 = turbo. I = bad at labeling

im letting bajo tooie run on seed 10 and it seems to be fine

[quick light]

Right. And disregard that zip of all the other seeds you created?

[green epoch]

yeah, just focus on 8 and 10 right now

[quick light]

Gotcha.

Il download the cores ready on my phone, transfer them over now.

Not sure when I can do a good test though.

Actually

I could tomorrow theoretically just leave the mister running banjo tooie for like 6 hours. But I won't be able to keep an eye on it

[green epoch]

I think seed 10 is good to go

it's just the non turbo core I'd like more eyes on

[quick light]

Do we know if any scaling issue might persist after it shows?

Like something corrupts and it stays corrupted?

[green epoch]

yeah

scaler issues should be pretty immediate

[quick light]

Sweet then I can do seed 8 tomorrow then.

I think I see an issue already

Ye

This is going to be difficult to show

That is Ur seed 10 turbo core

Same as the normal official N64 core aswell as Zet sensei recent Biohazard fix bundled core.

Your seed 8 core is like this below

The red line is flashing aswell. It also looks like it's stretched too far to the top as it's cutoff

Issue still persists when launching a game. Just tried majora's mask

Oh god

@green epoch

Emergency

[quick arch]

The core has issues