Nintendo 64

[stuck geode]

Has anyone gotten Smash Remix 2.0 to work? I'm guessing I need to manually add a row to the text file for the core to see that it's there?

[mint shadow]

Smash remix works out of the box? Edits to the database file aren't necessary for the core to see your rom, just file extensions.

[stuck geode]

does it have to be z64 or can it be zipped?

[stuck geode]

nevermind, I was being dumb... it works just fine

[cyan dome]

smash 2 remix works for me by just adding the rom to the sd card...

[lone geyser]

I have to boot up the core and select it before it works

[trim birch]

having a weird issue where controller inputs dont work in jeopardy. using bluetooth, haven't tried with snac yet, but inputs appear to work for every other game i've tried. is this a known issue?

[mint shadow]

I was able to reproduce this.

I'm not 100% sure where the problem lies, probably the game itself, but the input does not respond if all 4 controllers are plugged in. If you set at least 1 of the Pad Types to off it works properly, in my limited testing.

This may make sense, as the game only supports 3 players.

Seems to be a known issue with emulators at least, couldn't find anything about this on real hardware... Because who the hell owns jeopardy on the N64, with 4 controllers.

[zinc dew]

I could if you really want me to lol

[mint shadow]

I was legit going to ping you about this robby lol

I don't think it's worth your time

[wanton sun]

yes, this game doesn't work with 4 controllers, it's the same with real hw

[iron wren]

incredibly made game

[dusty tusk]

Oof almost as embarrassing as faceball only supporting 15 Gameboys

[weary perch]

last page on my spreadsheet covers a few cases like that where issues are accurate to hardware https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HiL-vHgpL5Wj0iv88EGtMYcmcf9sml35W3sQgRPz2wU/edit?usp=sharing

[leaden dagger]

does anybody know how to convert .mpk files to .cpk?

[quick light]

Got another question in regards to N64's resolution switching. I currently use these settings in my ini:
Vscale_mode:4
Vsync_adjust:2
Vrr:1

Now, I'm playing resident evil 2 (without expansion pack) with fixed video blanks and video out: original. I have no resolution switching issues whatsoever.

But when I change video out: from original to clean HDMI. I get the resolution switching.

[green epoch]

I wonder if clean HDMI enables the expansion pack for whatever reason

that's what fuels the resolution switching iirc

[quick light]

I don't think so as if you boot up Resident evil 2 with the expansion pack enabled. You get a little expansion pack symbol below the title screen

But that's a good theory

Then again, whilst it's set to clean HDMI. It seems like the fixed video blanks setting has no effect. Changing it from on to off does nothing

So maybe clean HDMI disables fixed video blanks?

To be fair I was able to tweak with the video settings quite a bit (under the video out:original) to try and match the clean HDMI.

[zinc dew]

https://savefileconverter.com/#/n64/controller-pak

[sullen harbor]

Having used the Saafun and and the NSO controller I weirdly like the Saffun controller more for some reason

Its cheaper but the NSO controller's stick is too tight sometimes

[lament escarp]

I feel the same about the intec controller mod. First I thought the stick was too lose but I started to actually prefer it.

[tender pine]

You can't account for taste...

[coral hill]

How does Mister perform in games that have the most common timing issues in all N64 emulators?

Like DK missing the vines? Or the Blues Brothers aligator boss issue? Or Knife Edge playing too fast?

Or Beetle Adventure Racing attract mode missing the jump (unconfirmed if it happens on real hardware)

[random bloom]

Mister isn't perfect timing wise. Some games have been fixed via patches to the games themselves (that now are automatically applied without you needing to do so). Knife Edge and Blues Brothers fall under that category, for example. Other issues like DK missing the vines in demo mode remain unfixed because of the limitations of the de-10 nano.

For more detailed info

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HiL-vHgpL5Wj0iv88EGtMYcmcf9sml35W3sQgRPz2wU/htmlview

This is from the pins and is a list of all issues with the core, as well as workarounds where applicable.

https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?t=8078

This second link is a list of the patches made to increase compatibility. Things like slight timing changes or framecaps where there were none. Not noticeable in game, but there nonetheless.

[weary perch]

of the 2 instances of timing issues in Blues Brothers 2000, the second one was never verified iirc because no one played that far, but is hypothetically still unpatched

if you give Ruleset a save file from right before the second bit he can probably fix it 🙂

don't think a single soul has done so, lol

not a game many give 2 shits about i'd wager

maybe someone did play that far but didn't share a save file, can't quite recall now. but there's a decent chance that game can't currently be completed on the core

[green epoch]

My first thought was "I wonder if meauxdal knows the answer to those questions". Dunno why I wondered :p

[bright lotus]

MiSTer also has clearly slightly worse perf in Goldeneye and Perfect Dark than the real system (with low fps dips retaining for slightly longer times), with regular core at least

I was looking for a productive excuse to play trash bin-tier games

[zinc dew]

Yeah? I can check at some point. I have those carts.

[magic girder]

TIL

[balmy copper]

noob question, but are any games rn cycle accurate? if not, is it possible in the near future, or is that something that wont happen any time soon

[zinc dew]

cycle accurate is more or less just a goofy marketing term, I believe most games run just as accurate as the original system

These are just emulators, albeit recreating the hardware, but to have a complete 1-to-1 recreation of the hardware would require an FPGA that is much larger than what’s currently affordable

[balmy copper]

Im looking for cycle accuracy for Tasing purposes

since i dont think any software emulators are good enough atm

[tepid shuttle]

the n64 core is amazing but not without flaws. there's some games that need patches to work properly and others run too fast or too slow. i think some concessions had to be made for everything to fit on the current fpga

[zinc dew]

I hope that’s not a spelling error and you need to tase someone. If so I’ve got your back buddy, let’s roll.

[zinc dew]

This is, in my sincere opinion, the best way to play N64 right now.

[neat sierra]

Don’t tase me bro

Robby should know, he owns 1 million N64 carts and is actually Pikachu in real life

[zinc dew]

Pika piiiiiiiiiiii!

[green epoch]

Tool Assisted Speedrunn….nevermind you’re trolling

[zinc dew]

OH LOL

thank you, I didn’t know

[balmy copper]

yea

[zinc dew]

I honestly thought he meant to spell “testing”

lmao

[neat sierra]

I knew that at one point but had forgotten after the last time speedrunners were saying stuff I didn’t know

[tepid shuttle]

me too lmao

[zinc dew]

Sorry @balmy copper , I was just having a goof

….brush

[balmy copper]

does the core have somewhat accurate lag atleast?

[zinc dew]

Yeah definitely

Wait, I think it does

[neat sierra]

Can’t beat mister for input and display lag in general

[zinc dew]

I am casual so maybe I shouldn’t opine lol

[tepid shuttle]

does @balmy copper mean input latency or actual in-game slow-down

[balmy copper]

in game lag

[tepid shuttle]

i would have to say no, then. in my testing, f-zero x, mario kart 64 and star fox 64 all run with a lot less lag

[balmy copper]

ah bummer

[zinc dew]

See I am casual

lol

[neat sierra]

Yeah N64 core will never be exact because of memory compromises due to the DE10

[tepid shuttle]

so am i i'm just hyperfixated on the same 5 games

[neat sierra]

Robert has explanations and documentation somewhere with specifics

But IDC because I almost never play N64 😉

[tepid shuttle]

one of the reasons i'm most excited for a potential "mister 2" is so compromises like this don't have to be made. imagine an n64 core that ran everything 1:1 and had DD support

[zinc dew]

bruh, I get that feel. That’s me and DK Bonanza right now

[neat sierra]

Yeah we have so much stuff on mister a sequel would really just be about that kind of improvement and maybe a few more arcade cores being possible IMO. Oh and DS

[jolly turret]

It would definitely be nice to have a more powerful and suitable successor hardware. Do we know anything about a potential upcoming Mister Pro or 2?

[zinc dew]

I play a lot of N64 but just for casual fun, I don’t do tool assisted speed runs

[tepid shuttle]

there's been a lot of talk but i don't know if anything is concrete yet

[zinc dew]

@balmy copper I got a dumb question about TAS if you don’t mind

[balmy copper]

sure : )

[zinc dew]

it just means like you can use save states to perfect a run, right?

[balmy copper]

does it just require a more expensive fpga chip? 🤔

[balmy copper]

essentially

but you have access to a lot more tools

like viewing memory etc

[zinc dew]

Oh wow, so like for RNG purposes to make sure you get something favorable for your run?

[tepid shuttle]

mostly. a better fpga will have more logic elements and therefore could store more Stuff inside all the different cores

[neat sierra]

A lot of talk but not by the guy that matters: sorg. Taki or whomever need to engage with him before talking to users IMO and hyping the idea

[balmy copper]

yess

[zinc dew]

That’s super cool

[zinc dew]

Can a flash cart do that stuff?

I know it’s a dumb question but I don’t have an Everdrive or Summer Cart

[balmy copper]

if they can savestate then yeah technically, but tasing usually uses a setup that looks like this

where you have access to all frames in rows

[zinc dew]

wow!

That’s super cool dude, thank you for explaining

[balmy copper]

np

[balmy copper]

Ill be looking out for this in the future 😄

[green epoch]

Did they do a TAS block as SGDQ this year?

[neat sierra]

Wait people can use tools to make records as well? I figured it was for practice

Wouldn’t that just be a tools arms race?

Guess it would be like car racing

[balmy copper]

looks like it?

[green epoch]

It’s not really a record as much as a “this is what is possible”

[neat sierra]

Ah

[green epoch]

It can be wild to watch

[balmy copper]

theyre treated as a separate thing, like normal chess with players as opposed to events that do chess engines v themselves

[green epoch]

It’s fun when something that was considered “tas only” is pulled off by a speedrunner and then integrated into the route

[neat sierra]

No idea how people have the patience for speedrunning, I can barely make myself finish games once these days 😉

[green epoch]

Same, but I love watching it

There were incredible super Metroid and Mario odyssey runs this year.

[green epoch]

Ah, I must have missed it

[zinc dew]

I like the TAS where you have no idea what the hell is happening and it’s like magic lol

“yeah, I’m just gonna parallel stomp this goomba right when the eclipse starts and BOOM, we’re now playing Crash Bandicoot on the Supah Nintendies”

like wtfffffffff lmao

[green epoch]

“This a one frame trick that relies on a subpixel being in the right position”

[zinc dew]

@balmy copper just in case we’re saying that out of love, TAS people are like magicians is what I’m trying to say

[balmy copper]

I think the real magicians are the MiSTer devs here xD

[tender pine]

This so-called bigger FPGA what we might hope to find in the Analogue 3D?

[zinc dew]

I have no idea what FPGA they’re using tbh

[blazing knot]

nobody does! afaik they haven't even shown it playing anything yet

[tepid shuttle]

i wouldn't want analogue to be at the forefront of fpga gaming anyway

[hushed nova]

it doesn't matter what it has, nothing else is going to run on it

[tepid shuttle]

haven't all of the other analogue systems been jailbroken though

[hushed nova]

"jailbroken"

[tepid shuttle]

custom firmware

whatever you want to call it

[hushed nova]

i.e analog is giving you some other cores they wrote and pretending it isn't them

[tepid shuttle]

is that how it happened lol

well, just another reason for me to dislike them

[green epoch]

The 3d is only going to play Nintendo games. Analogue has said it’s not going to get openfpga

[cyan dome]

why get analogue 3d when MI2TER FunPGA is coming soon

[hushed nova]

crickets

[cyan dome]

noooooo

[hushed nova]

no one should be under any assumption a mister successor is 'coming soon'

[cyan dome]

until the analogue 3d comes out it could be sooner than that!!!

[zinc dew]

Yes it is, I made the logo and everything!

[cyan dome]

mi2ter has a logo, analogue 3d has some renders of the console

[hushed nova]

any product Robby is associated with is an immediate failure

[cyan dome]

no faith in the MiTWOTer?!

[blazing knot]

i don't own any other analogue hardware but the pocket at least has the ability to run true community developed cores out of the box

[lament escarp]

All the comparisons between mister and other fpga platform have left out the best feature on mister: it exists.

[blazing knot]

analogue releases things too! ...eventually...after delaying it 10 times.....

...and then provides dubious continued support

[tepid shuttle]

don't know why they get continued support when the mister is so much better

and actually available as quirrin stated

[blazing knot]

the pocket was the only thing i've ever had interest in getting from them bc it provided a meaninfully distinct experience from what mister can do

everything else though is pointless for me

[lament escarp]

Mister is so available I actually bought a second one as a gift for a friend. Name any other fpga platform you can do that with.

[blazing knot]

but whenever taki's handheld is out that'll change

[tepid shuttle]

if someone could make a sleek, portable mister then even the pocket will be redundant

[lament escarp]

Given, the one my friend got was a mister pi, unlike my de10 nano but then again I'm not that good of a friend. 😅

[blazing knot]

https://stupidpenisx.com/TakiUdon_/status/1826602501044666743

Taki Udon (@TakiUdon_)

The band is back together. Plan b teaser:

QRT: TakiUdon_
DPAD prototyping and MiSTer handheld plan a teaser

vxTwitter / fixvx · Aug 22, 2024, 12:49 PM

[tepid shuttle]

almost 1 year ago

[lament escarp]

Taki is slow. I waited 6 months for the mister pi between order and shipment.

[tepid shuttle]

he's done some great things but i wish he wouldn't announce like 8 products all at once

[blazing knot]

yeah, he put a little too much on his plate at once for sure

at least we know he can actually release something that works

[chilly ember]

Mister pi i ordered recently it only took then 5 days to ship it

[lament escarp]

Yeah batch 3 appearently had a lot of issues, lots probably out of takis hands.

But all in all he is still better at keeping his dates than analouge.

[worn delta]

I suspect you are right that it will get a "jailbroken" FW that allows you to load N64 ROMs off the SD, like their other consoles do, but I wouldn't expect it to play games by any other systems. I.e. I doubt they will release their NES core on the jailbreak Analogue 3D.

What I am interested to see if once that happens how it stacks up against the MiSTer core and if it has any features out core doesn't, that could in theory be supported

[lament escarp]

Can mister be jailbroken?

[blazing knot]

no it's too secure

[hushed nova]

the very fact they can design custom hardware for it means it'll probably be better than the mister core

[lament escarp]

Would be embarrassing if not. Just imagine: a product that only runs one core, is more expensive than a pi and then works worse.

[tepid shuttle]

i'll be interested to see how the 3D performs, and if there's any options to improve framerate like in the turbo core on mister

[tender pine]

My understanding of the Analogue 3D fpga being used is the newer variant de10 operating under a higher clock.

If Analogue keep to their word - this time at least - it shouldn't be too long until we have actual hard data.

Either way I'm going to be fascinated with how it compares with the exceptional and 'impossible' Mister N64 core.

[chilly ember]

I'm curious if it will play kaze rom hacks

[tender pine]

I think for me and a lot of people it's the promise of it running 4K native and as such the CRT filters should arguably be as good as running via a Retrotink 4K.

[green epoch]

a lot of hopium being huffed in here

[tender pine]

Regarding what exactly?

[chilly ember]

I won't be buying one so it doesn't make a difference to me still curious :p

[green epoch]

literally everything considering the device hasn’t been released and analogue doesn’t have a great track record delivering on their promises

[tender pine]

Say what you want about Analogue - and Im often their worst critic - both the Mega SG, Super NT and Analogue Pocket are very reasonably priced and well crafted products.

[green epoch]

I didn’t say they weren’t. I’m saying they aren’t great at keeping their promises

[tepid shuttle]

too bad 2 of those 3 products are impossible to get now

[tender pine]

Definitely they've been plenty guilty on over promising and slightly under delivering, but still, in an industry in which too many products dont ever see the light of day, Analogue at least have delivered numerous well regarding products at this point.

Also is Palmer Lucky's N64...

[tender pine]

Entirely untrue. Go on eBay for example.

[green epoch]

I dunno if I would classify “The Duo still cannot play certain games” as “slightly underdelivering”. That is kind of the point of the console

[tepid shuttle]

not paying $400 for a super nt lol

[hushed nova]

didn't they completely flake on some pocket peripherial too?

[worn delta]

I think the DAC is still a mess, I don't think that ever got properly fixed

[green epoch]

yes

Folks bought the dac because they said support was coming to the pocket dock. that support has still not appeared (and references to it have been removed from the site)

[tender pine]

Guys, gals. I don't disagree with any of this. This is a company far from perfect. I only say they've delivered on manufacturing and delivering on products. That alone should never be undersold.

[green epoch]

I’m just trying to temper expectations because assuming that a 100% accurate N64 with RTINK4K CRT emulation is not a realistic expectation here

doesn’t mean it won’t happen

but it’s not realistic

[tender pine]

Let's aim for the moon...

[worn delta]

Their products are generally very slick and for the average consumer do what they need to do and well. Most people buying them to play the old box of carts they have had under their bed gathering dust for years on their modern TV have a their needs well met.

I am curious to see if they can pull off a solid N64 core, as that is substantially more complex than any other systems they have done.

[tender pine]

I don't say I'm expecting perfection or anything even close, just a solid product.

[lament escarp]

I think this discord in particular will be the hardest audience for them to impress. We've had N64 on fpga for over a year now. Not to mention the integration of the game boy core for transfer stuff but also the turbo core and the auto patches for edge cases.

[tender pine]

Yeah. I hear that. I don't see how they could top the mister N64 core but my interest will be waiting to find out for certain...only 1 month now, allegedly.

[worn delta]

Is there anything that doesn't play on the core now? I forget if everything got fixed or not

[lament escarp]

I think so? I wouldn't no of anything that doesn't boot.

I think some 4p games have performance issues?

[tepid shuttle]

was that crash in wonder project J2 fixed

[tender pine]

Certainly everything of artistic merit.

[tepid shuttle]

the only thing missing from the core in my eyes is proper rtc/64dd support

[lament escarp]

For what exactly? A handful of japan exclusive games and animal forest that has a wonky fan translation?

[tepid shuttle]

i mean the 64dd does have a small library but what's there is really cool

worth it for the f-zero x expansion kit alone imo

you can play the cartridge conversions, but they don't save properly

[tender pine]

@tepid shuttle talking fringe and niche cases here. The more the merrier, I agree, but not exactly a hurdle for enjoyment.

[tepid shuttle]

yeah it's definitely not a top priority, but would be cool to see someday

kind of like how the neo geo core got neo geo cd support eventually

[tender pine]

Not likely to happen on this de10 nano but either Analogue 3D or Modretro...

[lament escarp]

I think those features will get added when there is finally a successor board, but I probably won't upgrade.

[tepid shuttle]

it will be nice to see a lot of little features and improvements in an eventual mister successor

[lament escarp]

What we really need is gamecube support.

[worn delta]

It would be nice if possible to see the RTC ported over from Summer cart, and for someone to fork the core and port 64DD support from summer cart as well (assuming there isn't room in the actual core for this).

[tender pine]

GC is something I'd suggest software emulation to anybody OR just pick up a Wii for peanuts.

[tepid shuttle]

the wii is great for gamecube games

also moondandy gets it ❤️

[lament escarp]

I actually have a kitted out gc with carby and gc loader. But would be nice to have it all in one system. (Even if a fpga solution is probably decades away)

It's the gc my mum bought for me as a kid, so it was basically free. 🙃

[worn delta]

I guess anyone who buys the Analogue 3D and a Summercart, which are quite fairly priced, could have a very robust way to play N64 ROMs, assuming their core is of a high standard

Summercart seems a very feature rich piece of kit

[lament escarp]

If they're compatible. I wouldn't count on it till it's well tested. I have a chromatic that doesn't work with my everdrive x7 and the analog pocket also had issues with it at launch.

[quick light]

I heard analogues next console is a gamecom

[quick light]

GameCube is my favourite retro console of all time

[green epoch]

you absolutely did not

[lament escarp]

I'll quite the development of my mister core for it then.

[quick light]

Its so easy to modernise. Like you said. Gcvideo + GCLoader PNP.

[quick light]

Can't reveal my sources.

[lament escarp]

Yeah, rt4k+memcard pro gc if you wanna go really fancy. Since the swiss dev and tink dev are friends swiss actually supports some kind if direct video you can turn on for even better rt4k support.

[green epoch]

https://tenor.com/80aG.gif

[quick light]

Ok it's Robby

[tepid shuttle]

nintendont via a wii is even better imo

better performance in gamecube games and near-perfect virtual memory card support

[bright lotus]

there might be some argument that Wii's component output is worse than GC's but I wasn't bothered by it

[fierce girder]

Much cheaper way to get component for your GCN games that way too, lol

It’s not worse enough that I would notice without running both side by side and pixel peeping

[bright lotus]

my euro Wii U was such a dissapointment

I thought after selling my og Wii I could make by with GC games on a U

it's interlaced only!!

even after flashing US firmware to it it still outputs interlaced video for vWii!!!

what a goddamn disappointment

[fierce girder]

Nintendont does have some issues though, not every game is perfect. Wind Waker has flicker than can be minimized with forcing Deflicker on in the settings but it doesn’t clear up every instance

[bright lotus]

it will be progressive if it's output to HDMI but Nintendo's Analog to Digital converter is really shitty

and is actively worse than component video

[fierce girder]

Getting RE4 to play reliably without crashing also requires a virtual memory card, I can’t get it working with a physical one

[latent dagger]

PSP. That would be dope.

[mossy vector]

Start infiltrating Sony to get the RTL. PSP is more complex than the PS2.

[mortal panther]

Just shoot for Vita, then you get both.

[mossy vector]

On the whole, societal benefit gain stops at the GameCube. The channel with four gates cannot leak anymore.

[mortal panther]

Vita is the best PSP... just like PS5 is the best PS4. 😉

[iron wren]

Wish the vita could run psp games at double res 🥲

[mortal panther]

That would be neat, but at least the screen is double res, so it's a clean 2x upscale.

[zinc dew]

Dude, being able to play PS4 games without my console sounding like a jet engine was probably the biggest improvement.

I loved and hated that console lol

[mortal panther]

I would've thought it'd be the solid 60 FPS for most titles, but yeah, that was a nice bonus. 😉

[chilly ember]

I had to fix a friend's ps4 in the past because her 2 year old put coins in the disc drive and because I had to take it completely apart, I needed to redo the thermal paste, it stopped being a jet engine after that

[iron wren]

Cleanish, default is bilinear stretch so it looks horribly blurry

[zinc dew]

Ohhh nice to know, thanks dude

[chilly ember]

How long it lasts, I don't know lol

[thorn flax]

i know what i’m playing tonight

[jolly turret]

I think I found a bug. San Francisco Rush - Extreme Racing (Europe) will not boot. USA version works just fine.

[green epoch]

lol, boots with the turbo core

regular core too slow for europe

[marble cargo]

Well yeah, San Francisco isn't in Europe.

[lament escarp]

Source?!

[mellow raft]

I think you mean takes a whiff of the pipe sauce~

[compact depot]

EUR games blocked! Core is now complete!

[green epoch]

https://tenor.com/bS5ha.gif

[jolly turret]

Thanks for confirming. Should I create a new issue on the github page?

[green epoch]

yeah, I think so? I was going to see if it had been reported already

[jolly turret]

I checked and didn't find anything. I'll open a new issue just in case.

[worn delta]

I noticed that the N64_80MHz core, and the PSX2XCPU, aren't covered right now by names.txt. What would be the preferred naming for these two, "N64 Turbo" and "PSX Turbo"?

[dusty tusk]

That's what the PWM cores use

[worn delta]

PWM cores?

[dusty tusk]

https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?t=7565

Allows for 24bit video output on older io boards

[worn delta]

Ah, OK. So they are already being referred to elsewhere as "N64 Turbo" and "PSX Turbo", so makes sense to have names.txt rename them as such?

[dusty tusk]

I would to keep things simple and uniform, but I don't know how others feel. Turbo is more obvious to a user than 80mhz

[worn delta]

Yeah, in agreement there. A nudge to @cloud hollow so he is aware of this conversation

[zinc dew]

I use Turbo myself

But I do fancy brackets like this “Nintendo N64 [Turbo]”

[hushed nova]

Nintendo N64 [Scraped]

[green epoch]

Nintendo N64 [64]

[jolly turret]

I refer to these cores as Turbo as well. It's likely the most self descriptive term that you could choose for these cores.

[rich warren]

Some variant of Street Fighter and/or Power Rangers monikers should work

[zinc dew]

Nintendo N64 - Turbo Edition [N64 by Nintendo] (1996) (Rev 3)

[chilly ember]

Shame no one has made the suggestion of Ultra 64

[tepid shuttle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1095426007227441153.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[mortal panther]

That's personally how I've done mine for a long time, but I've managed my names.txt for years.

[magic girder]

N64_80MHz and PSX2XCPU for me. I’m a traditionalist 😏

[vapid hawk]

N65 and PSX Pro

[iron dove]

I like to update 'Nint. 64' to 'Nint. N64', to match the 'Nint. NES' and 'Nint. Super NES' cores

[zinc dew]

Double Nintendo gang rise up

[iron dove]

'who made this system aga..... oh, cool'

[paper orchid]

I vote we change the name of the NES core to just "Nintendo", which is what we called it back in the day (maybe "The Nintendo")

We should also change the SNES core name too, to just "Nintendo", which is what my parents referred to it as

[iron dove]

'new nintendo'

[green epoch]

We should take the southern soda naming approach and just rename all the consoles “the Nintendo”

[raw oriole]

I reserve the right to call my Dreamcast "fanta"

[paper orchid]

Oh you have Cokes, excellent, I'll have a Dr. Pepper.

In MI it's "pop", in NC it was "soda". AL? "Coke", everything's a Coke.

[blazing knot]

Should probably also rename the PSX core to Nintendo as well then

[paper orchid]

Pepsi's a Coke.

Yeah, every console needs to be a Nintendo

[zinc dew]

Didn’t you see my post, there’s no such thing as a Nintendo!

[raw oriole]

If only. The D-pads would be better if nothing else

[paper orchid]

There's no such thing as Photoshopping either!

[cyan dome]

there is no photoshop

[paper orchid]

Big Software wants you to respect their branding

[cyan dome]

only gimp

[raw oriole]

Oh wait. Everything's an Xbox. This is very confusing.

[zinc dew]

[zinc dew]

[paper orchid]

I should be doing some work today, but it turns out I have nothing to do, so I'm going to go play some Donkey Kong on my Nintendo

[magic girder]

All consoles should be called PlayStation

[raw oriole]

Ban the heretic

[lament escarp]

A Nintendo Playstation, yes.

[raw oriole]

Double ban the double heretic

[zinc dew]

Super excited to see how the N64 core fares against 8BitDo and ModRetro’s offerings.

Or if ModRetro is using Robert’s N64 core.

[worn delta]

Who are ModRetro?

[green epoch]

Palmer Luckey's side hustle

[zinc dew]

They made the Chromatic

[worn delta]

Oh, those guys

Did Chromatic use MiSTer cores?

[zinc dew]

it uses the MiSTer’s GBC core and as far as I know they played nice with all the legal requirements

[worn delta]

So this is probably using Robert's N64 core

[zinc dew]

@wanton sun do you know if ModRetro is using your N64 core? Not saying they are, was just wondering.

[tepid shuttle]

any competition to the analogue 3D is a win in my book

[thorn flax]

not at first if you recall

only mentioned the core being used on there website a week or so later

after someone had figured out it was in fact the mister core

[visual sage]

*Analogue

Not 8Bitdo, they’re just making a controller for it.

[tepid shuttle]

i'm excited to see more about this m64 console. if it has analog rgb video out of the box (which it looks like it does), that's already a plus over the analogue 3D for me

[zinc dew]

It’s 8BitDo, they share the same employees

That’s not super public knowledge but if you look at a few people on LinkedIn and Taber’s own resume you’ll see. No worries, friend.

Well they’re both “companies” of Shenzen Bestodo Technologies. It’s a typical Chinese tech company format. One generic company that hides itself and they make lots of smaller companies with Anglo-sounding names.

But it doesn’t end there, Shenzen Bestodo is actually part of “Shenzen Best of Best” holdings with Yucheng Wang as the CEO.

[cyan dome]

secret knowledge

the real question is when is chicken run network technologies going to make a fpga console?!?!

they must compete with 8bitdo in all areas

refuse the analogue 3d, wait for the Gamesir 64

[zinc dew]

Speaking of which I wonder how the IP Patent case against 8BitDo is going - https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/68865748/5/gametronics-llc-v-8bitdo-technology-hk-limited/

(they’re patent trolls lol)

[cyan dome]

8bitdo are the patent trolls or those having a case against them?

[blazing knot]

Case against them. 8bitdo is listed as the defendant there

[cyan dome]

i figured

im looking at the patents and the cases now

beautiful

[little socket]

What did they do, have a blue face button with a letter engraved on the top?

[cyan dome]

"device that generates data signals"

[blazing knot]

damn, apparently these people own the patent for every digital device ever

[cyan dome]

theyre being sued for having analog sticks in a plastic housing that sends data signals as far i can see

[blazing knot]

patent trolls are wild

[cyan dome]

"gametroncis" have seemingly sued nintendo a couple times too lol

[blazing knot]

probably learned their lesson there pretty quick lmao

https://tenor.com/view/lawyers-simpsons-gif-18186566

live footage of gametronics at Nintendo’s legal offices

[cyan dome]

looking at just this one patent all the cases have been dismissed (the ones that are not ongoing)

[plush summit]

I hope the M64 controller isnt another GC hall effect stick

[blazing knot]

Actually if you don’t make a controller with hall effect sticks your controller manufacturing privileges will be revoked by the council of armchair hardware developers

[plush summit]

that is true

[blazing knot]

Well, now it’s TMR bc hall effect is old news

[plush summit]

also, did the M64 ever specify they're using FPGA?

[junior pine]

What would be the alternative? Cheat ass emulation or... well.. a MIPS processor and discrete parts which would be impossible to manufacture nowadays.

[plush summit]

software emulation would be my best guess

[junior pine]

I wouldn't be caught dead buying that piece of shit coming from a weapons dealer, but for the good of the people without a conscience that buy it, I hope not: good N64 emulation isn't easy to achieve. Even today, running an accurate N64 renderer needs a relatively beefy graphics pipeline...

[plush summit]

as of now, I only use either the 64 core or whatever is re/decompiled

[junior pine]

Ah, I enjoy N64 decomps and recomps too! I am about to send a PR to the Goemon one so it works natively on Wayland 🙂

[plush summit]

interesting note, palmer luckey mentioned he isn't "upscaling" the image? could be another hint its a software emu

last I heard, AMD FPGAs aren't cheap and its undercutting the 3D

[worn delta]

That would undermine his "real hardware" claim if this was just a glorified raspberry pi in a nice case. It would be very odd for him to do an FPGA GB then basically do what Retron did like a decade ago with an N64 software emulator. That would be pointless.

Also this thing is going up against the Analogue 3D, he would be a laughing stock if he rolled out a software emulator

[plush summit]

Its possible that he's leaning very heavily on the controller/cartridge support to hide the software emulation part

[worn delta]

That feels like a sure fire way to irreparably tarnish his company, and be a pretty pointless endeavour, but who knows, people always find new ways to surprise and disappoint.

[vapid hawk]

i bet it was them that commissioned robert to make the new gba core

and if so, i bet they're also working with him on m64

[plush summit]

I doubt Robert has anything to do with it

[worn delta]

That seems a very logical assembling of the various bits of data we have at hand.

[vapid hawk]

it seems to fit the facts

[plush summit]

if it was the case, quite odd they would switch to AMD and expect a "complete" core very quickly

[worn delta]

If I remember right Robert did also mention something that could be done on the core that he never got round to was low level pif emulation, which if I understand correctly would essentially be creating an open source BIOS. This is something that both the Analogue 3D and M64 will need, and Robert probably wouldn't want to share one if he had made before Analogue 3D is out as they could just take it for free. Time to change my tin foil hat, getting sweaty under it.

[vapid hawk]

have you seen how fast robert works? 😄 he may even be heading up a team

[hushed nova]

Robert is a professional, porting to another fpga isn't a huge mountain for him

[zinc dew]

You’re right, it’s not a mountain it’s a PCB

Duh

[worn delta]

He already has his cores running on beefier dev boards, doesn't he?

[vapid hawk]

anyway this is just my random conspiracy theory 😛 i think it'd be cool though, i'd def be more interested in buying chromatic hardware if i know he was involved

[zinc dew]

I pinged him earlier in the chat asking him

🤷‍♂️

[plush summit]

maybe they're licensing it off the FP64 guys? They use Xilinx

[zinc dew]

Was that even real

[plush summit]

it is real

[zinc dew]

That’s pretty cool

[worn delta]

I am surprised Chromatic didn't follow up GB with NES/SNES/Megadrive. Those would all be much simpler than GBA or N64, and Analogue has dropped the ball not keeping their consoles in stock. They go for silly money now on eBay.

[zinc dew]

I don’t think enough people care about 16-bit or older systems anymore

That’s boomer retro

[hushed nova]

I'm assuming Chromatic's strategy is basically 'what Palmer thinks is cool'

[worn delta]

Yeah, I expect you are right Zakk

[hushed nova]

that guy is so rich he could lose money on every unit sold and never even notice

[vapid hawk]

i wonder if their m64 will have a "jailbreak" and ports of other mister cores become possible

[plush summit]

Its my assumption of what he's doing, he's most likely breaking even to recoup dev costs for his passion projects

[worn delta]

How old is he? Might give an indication of what systems he grew up with

[plush summit]

early thirties maybe?

[worn delta]

That's young

[plush summit]

now I feel like a baby 😛

[zinc dew]

Late 90s systems and onwards

[lament escarp]

He actually claimed so on the modretro chromatic. And since the retail price for the one with sapphire class display is now 100 bucks more than for the first wave I'm inclined to believe some of it.

[zinc dew]

GBA and GameCube are next

[worn delta]

Amazed he even played N64 if he is early 30s

[lament escarp]

GBA would be most interesting to me since it hopefully will have a custom 1:1 screen as well.

[plush summit]

I own an N64 and Im in that age group 😛

[hushed nova]

hand-me-downs from older siblings/cousins type thing

[lament escarp]

I never owned a n64 since my family was too poor but it certainly was the dream.

[plush summit]

my dad bought it at launch, had it ever since

maybe I'm just an edge case

[zinc dew]

I got it BEFORE LAUNCH

[slender hawk]

‎ 🎩

🧿👄🧿 ✨
‎ 🫴

[plush summit]

fell off from the back of a truck huh?

[zinc dew]

Toys R Us and GameStop broke street date a week early

Maybe it was just 3 days early

[worn delta]

That's because Robby's uncle works at Nintendo

He says Mother 3 is coming soon btw

Keep the faith

[lament escarp]

Don't need it. Whole trilogy on mister. Newish hack for mother 1 "mother restored" now has the superior tomato translation on nes. I'm about halfway through.

[worn delta]

Better not tell Robby's uncle that, he'll tell Mr Nintendo and get us shut down

[waxen oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/any-day-now-jon-larson-andrew-garfield-tick-tick-boom-very-soon-gif-23415249

Man, I remember how crushed I was when that was first canceled.

[iron wren]

He’s not far off from my age, he probably grew up on gbc and n64.

N64 came out around the time he would have been the target demo

[worn delta]

Well, anyways, he clearly does have a fondness for the system regardless of his age. Although he is unlikely to have nostalgia for the 8 and 16bit eras

[iron wren]

My guess is he’s trying to beat analogue to market, and might be influenced by the relatively poor accessibility/obscure landscape for playing n64 games in currentyear. Guess we’ll see!

[hushed nova]

the thing is he may not beat them to market, and he certainly wouldn't have if they hit their initial release date

[worn delta]

It will be interesting to see what USP he has over the Analogue 3D

They will presumably be quite similarly priced

Although offering sanely priced shipping would be one...

[weak hill]

im here wating for (if any) information regarding it the m64 is using robert´s core or no hahaha

[tender pine]

Just wondering, you say you wouldn't buy anything from Palmer Lucky as you cite him as a weapons dealer. Ok. Would you or have you in recent times bought from either Amazon or Apple?

[hushed nova]

ya'll have to learn to stop engaging this stuff

[junior pine]

Nope. I wouldn't touch Apple products with a 10 mts pole.

[remote nexus]

There’s a link to sign up for early bird pricing on their website. Heard somewhere that it might be $199.99 with that pricing.

[hushed nova]

it literally tells you the price on the site

[junior pine]

In fact, everybody around me avoids buying/paying anything related to a certain middle-east genocide pseudo-state, too.

[zinc dew]

Ok this is veering into politics. Please keep it in #spicy-off-topic

[junior pine]

Yep! Nothing else to add 😄

[zinc dew]

Appreciate you, thank you for understanding.

[remote nexus]

Thanks, I didn’t watch the video, so I didn’t see that.

[civic wind]

Wasn’t everyone crapping on Palmer Luckey for sort of being a POS, would be kinda sad if what you said is true

[raw oriole]

Yeah, he’s a mercenary techbrodude with no ethics or morals

[cyan dome]

a lot of people in tech work for unethical tech companies as tech companies usually are unethical, gotta put food on the table somehow

it's a tough landscape to navigate

(this is a defense of people who work in video games for unethical tech corporations like microsoft or whoever the fuck palmer lucky is, but i would certainly avoid buying their products)

[civic wind]

People have more choice than they realize and most of the time for engineers it’s not a do or die/put food on the table crisis

I would never work for a defense company personally, even though they’re a huge employer for my specialty (Fpga)

[cyan dome]

that is true

[civic wind]

(Also defense is boring as can be)

[cyan dome]

my stance isn't that this is good but it's more "there are a lot of bad things in our world and at one point I, personally, have to distance myself from this stuff and programming nintendo 64 fpga cores for unethical people is really not something I have time in my day to worry too much about"

[civic wind]

“Defense” lol, aka missile targeting systems or some other offensive tech

I was just curious more than anything, especially since community patreon donations were sort of mixed in with the development

And full disclosure I would probably buy the m64 because I can’t help myself when it comes to n64

[bright lotus]

at the risk of damning myself - you're already supporting a lot of harm indirectly and unconsciously already in your lives to worry about Luckey's warmongering

[civic wind]

Yeah yeah yeah

I watched the good place

[cyan dome]

let's do our best and reduce harm in the world and increase joy

[civic wind]

Using that as a cop out to not care about anything is fun

[bright lotus]

I just really don't want to talk about where the money went when I bought Saber's Tomb Raider remasters and Atomic Heart

I will still hold on to my two N64s and MiSTer

[cyan dome]

tell your friends the truth about third party nintendo 64 consoles!!

[raw oriole]

First job I got pimped for out of university was a "we'd like you to write C code for missile targeting" and I noped out of that so fast I got whiplash. Being a dumb kid I hadn't realised how much I would react to the suggestion.

I ended up working as sole IT lad at a 200-ish staff place run on unix+serial terms, which honed my sysadmin skillz no end

[civic wind]

Lockheed Martin was a big internship/student coop work employer for my school

It was like everyone and their dog was working on missile systems

I guess I did briefly work on a darpa grant research project, but I did such a bad job that might as well be considered malicious compliance lol

[covert bough]

Working in gaming id like to thing I help bring ppl some amount of joy but the first game i worked on was cod and its basically military propaganda after a certain point

[green epoch]

Which COD though? Like MW2 (the 2009 one) is almost anti-military (almost)

[plush summit]

Neversoft was tapped into making a CoD game after MW2, too bad they never completed it

[zinc dew]

Palmer Luckey is a PoS but ModRetro the company seems to be pretty good

🤷‍♂️

The fact that they’re actively publishing GBC games and want to do the same for N64 is pretty awesome

[dusty tusk]

Wait until you find out about Konami

I wonder if the rumors of them working on CRTs is true

[slender hawk]

‎ 🎩

🧿👄🧿 ✨
‎ 🫴

[broken cradle]

Lockheed and pratt&whitney were big in my school too

My cousin works for raytheon

But my stance is if a product is good then let their politics be dealt by those who care about politics

Chick Fil A makes amazing waffle fries

And the chromatic is pretty solid lol

Own an actual n64 and a scaler so no need for the m64 tho

[covert bough]

Black ops 4, aka the original battle royale before warzone

[green epoch]

Ahhh gotcha gotcha.

[mossy vector]

(Dude had an awesome video about the Nintendo logo in Ocarina of Time accessing out of bounds TLB memory, but got bashful and made it private)

[gritty sinew]

video is private

question to all: does anybody else feel like the rumble in this core is quite rough with a modern controller? (eg dualshock)

I noticed in the code that N64 only has a binary value for rumble, no power can be configured, so the core switches it to max rumble or off. that explains why it is so rough

also the status bit to disable rumble in the hardware menu has no effect. I can't find any logic driving that status bit so that explains it

[vapid hawk]

yeah mapping n64 rumble to modern rumble could probably be done a bit better

it needs like, a bit of decay to it? instead of straight off

[gritty sinew]

decay you can't do, N64 has binary rumble so it is on or off. but modern controllers can set the power in 16bits, and the core sets the controller at full power for on

so I am considering a PR to set that value for on a little lower, 80-60% or something, and fix that setting for rumble in the hardware menu which does nothing

[lament escarp]

So you could toggle the rumble between full and say 70%? That would be neat. But I guess you'd have to try how it feels before you if it's really better.

[gritty sinew]

no, lowering it would apply for everybody, that's why I am checking here if my experience that it is too rough is recognized. the setting in the hardware menu that does not work is the one that is supposed to disable rumble - so to summarize: rumble cannot be disabled and it is rough in my opinion

of course I have to test what feels right, but for a system which only does rumble on or off, setting it at full power everytime is not correct in my opinion and I think it is unpleasant, especially since I can´t disable it

[lament escarp]

You could always manually "remove" the rumble pak in the osd. I noticed it being a bit off. But dunno how much lowering it would improve it and I think there should be a way to toggle it between high and low. Maybe this could be achieved in main instead and be available on all cores?

[gritty sinew]

removing the rumble pak does nothing

that is the feature that doesn´t work. at least the one under the hardware menu, and I understand why because the status bit that is being toggled in the osd has no logic associated with it

main's behavior is fine. you tell main to do 50% rumble power and it will do it. this core is telling main to always rumble at 100% when triggered by the game

[lament escarp]

So the controller still rumbles when you tell the core that a transfer pak or no pak is inserted? Weird.

[gritty sinew]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_MiSTer/blob/86af24e8a931ce0f2c462f6b8af730d4fc72579e/N64.sv#L483

[simple olive]

.joystick_0_rumble(rumble[0] ? 16'hFFFF : 16'h0000),

[gritty sinew]

the rumble vector is coming from the N64 engine. here it says it is either 0xFFFF or 0x0000.

whatever you set in OSD has no effect on it

[lament escarp]

Right but you can turn off rumble in the osd by changing pad 1 type (or whichever controller port you want to turn rumble off for) to n64 pad (which is no pak inserted afaik) or transfer pak or whatever to turn rumble off.

That being said, that's completely off, still no adjustment.

Just tested it in oot.

[gritty sinew]

let me try again

[lament escarp]

You could also edit your n64-database to turn it off for certain games permanently if you want to.

[gritty sinew]

now I get it, OSD flips to rumble pak when you load a game, even if it is N64pad before you load it

and indeed if you flip it back it is gone

[lament escarp]

Yes, the database has defined which game supports which pak, since only very few games support more than 1 type.

But you can edit the database, it's just a textfile in youre games/n64 folder.

There may be a more elegant way to do it.

[gritty sinew]

gotcha. thanks for checking, a fresh set of eyes is useful sometimes

[lament escarp]

That being said I'd still be interested if you come up with a way to fine tune rumble. 😅 but always happy to help.

[gritty sinew]

I can think of something

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_MiSTer/blob/86af24e8a931ce0f2c462f6b8af730d4fc72579e/N64.sv#L351

[simple olive]

"P2O[72],RumblePak,Off,On;",

[gritty sinew]

this RumblePak under the hardware option does absolutely nothing, and since you can remove the rumblepak under controller settings, it is pointless

I can repurpose it to tone it down a bit, to not send 0xFFFF to the controller for rumble power but something milder

[lament escarp]

👍

As long as it's optional I can't think of any reason against it.

[gritty sinew]

👍

[mortal panther]

I don't think you're limited to just two options... so perhaps you could have
"P2O[72],RumblePak,Off,Low,Medium,High;"

Then again, perhaps the expert should chime in on this one. 😏

Oh, look who it is! 😄

[wanton sun]

was away last week, but some comments:

• the core could be more accurate with nonshared memory with decent bandwidth. Any custom board like Analogue 3D or Modretro M64 can easily do this.
• Analogue 3D will use mazamars closed source N64 core and will likely not allow to load custom cores
• Modretro M64 might use a variant of the mister core and make it open source again. It might allow to run custom cores like the Chromatic does

Even with memory good enough to replciate the RDRAM completly, there are still plenty of tasks around accuracy left for the mister core:

• TLB lookup table implementation is a hack, needs to be replaced
• FPU has some timing cases not covered (e.g. divide by 0 takes more cycles before it crashes 😛 )
• some CPU pipelining is not fully understood and no emulator fulfills the tests I have written, the core also doesn't, because I don't know how to make that work
• and some other parts

Ideally, if the M64 is based on the mister core like the chromatic, these things would be fixed there and can be either ported back, if timing is still fulfilled, or at least are available for any successor mister hardware, as I guess this work needs to be done for a product.

[wanton sun]

It's in the system settings submenu and was made to be set by the database and will be overwritten.
This cannot be reused for adding options

[gritty sinew]

are you sure? I see those other bits for controllerpak and transferpak being sent to the n64top module, but I fail to see anything that the rumblepak bit does. toggling it also does not disable rumble

[wanton sun]

it was placed there in the beginning of the development to have all options reserved for future use

Maybe this was never implemented, but still, I wouldn't reuse the bits in the range that are set by the HPS

[gritty sinew]

is that this bit? https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_MiSTer/blob/86af24e8a931ce0f2c462f6b8af730d4fc72579e/N64.sv#L418

[simple olive]

wire [127:0] status_in = {status[127:40],ss_slot,status[37:0]};

[gritty sinew]

I think this is where main writes those settings depending on rom db

[plush summit]

When you say that some aspects of the N64 is not fully understood, is it because of lack of documentation/knowledge, or that nobody has ever attempted to fix it through emulation?

[gritty sinew]

I guess that's what you meant with "made to be set by the database"

[wanton sun]

bits 64..95 are reserved to be set from the HPS

(at least for the n64 core support code)

[worn delta]

What was the potential improvement from low level pif emulation I think you mentioned awhile back? Although maybe I am misremembering/misunderstanding? I guess both analogue and M64 will need some sort of solution for not using the official pif files

[wanton sun]

there is documentation e.g. for the CPU, but they don't tell all the details how the pipelining works. Typically it doesn't matter to emulate a game, but might lead to slightly different timing.
You can only really test the behavior, but still have to imagine how to reach the same, especially when two things seem to work in opposite ways

[wanton sun]

PIF ROM is copyrighted and probably needs to be replaced. It should be fairly easy however, as it's only used for booting up.
Low level PIF controller is mostly academic to be honest. I doubt a product would go that extra mile. Visible timing behavior(game speed, controller timing, ...) can be replicated without implementing the original 4 bit cpu

It might however solve edge case issues when controllers or cpaks are not detected as they should.
It's like: don't fix/implemented the behavior of all the different actions, instead implement the old 4 bit CPU and let it run the original code and everything should be fine

[plush summit]

That's pretty neat, thanks for the insight. I'm curious if a better board would provide a better simulation environment to try to replicate these behaviors

Its pretty crazy we have 3 avenues exploring the N64 in 2025 😄

[wanton sun]

no, board is not relevant for that, can be implemented and tested in software emulator or HDL simulation as well.

It's mostly the art of testing things out of the original hardware and imagine how it could have been designed

[plush summit]

interesting, so its mostly trial and error?

[wanton sun]

in theory you could have all the information tested and build something to ideally replicate it.
In reality every time you want to build something:

• two things you tested contradict each other and you find no solution
  or
• you could build it, but a small detail remains, so just one additional test.... this new test contradicts your previous assumptions 🙈

[quick light]

Hey FPGAzumSpass.

I have a quick question in regards to the N64 core. Does enabling clean HDMI mode disable fixed video blanks?

Reason why I ask this is that I recently tried playing Resident Evil 2 (without the expansion pack, confirmed). Without clean HDMI and fixed blanks turned on. There is no resolution switching and it's great.

But when I turn clean HDMI on. Whilst the mister menu still shows fixed blanks is still on. I get resolution switching.

So I just wanted to see if that was intentional or not? Not an issue really as you can still tweak the video settings to try and match clean HDMI without enabling it.

[wanton sun]

Yes, clean HDMI will output the internal framebuffer in the RDRAM directly using the scaler, VI is skipped completly.
So when resolution changes, I must adjust there, otherwise you cannot get a full image.

[zealous knot]

Thanks for all of the info. How does the Turbo core work to increase framerates? I use that exclusively as I enjoy the small improvements and I'm interested. Does it boost cpu speed or something?

[magic girder]

#1096015979055697940 message

The base clock is 80 MHz rather than 62.5 MHz, but everything is increased in proportion ^

[wanton sun]

only exception is VI/AI clock, so video and audio playback speed should be the same for nearly all games, with only the fps being higher

[quick light]

I see great. Thank you very much for your explanation. Il just tweak the video settings to try and match cleanhdmi as close as possible. As i want to keep using the Fixed Blanks for the resolution switching.

[tender pine]

Even as a noob who understands very little of it, I could listen to @wanton sun discuss the technicalities all day long. I understand it's established but the de10 and add-ons amount to very little without these devs working on cores and asking very little in return, nothing stonewalled.

P.S the 8-bit Analogue 3D controller has not an estimated date but now a day...this Thursday.

[zinc dew]

That makes me super excited, thanks for answering all that.

Someone who knows about open source stuff please educate me but I am not a fan about anything emulation being closed source. It feels like by nature of what they’re doing, replicating someone else’s copyrighted/trademarked/whatever product, it almost feels counterintuitive to the whole process.

Just another clone product.

[mellow raft]

Robby, excited? That doesn't make any sense.

[zinc dew]

I get too excited by everything, I know lol

[mellow raft]

That's why we love you

[zinc dew]

to amend my comment above I don’t blame people for close sourcing stuff so I think my knee jerk reaction was foolish. They put in the hard work and effort and fulfill every legal obligation, so it makes sense wanting to close source it so no one can undercut them with their own work.

I just like the concept of giving back to the community but easy for me to say when it doesn’t involve anything related to me lol

[cyan dome]

open sourcing is better for communities and allow for creators work to flourish for longer and for people to work together and learn from each other to make better things for everyone

[zenith orchid]

it skips the scaler if you use DV1 right?

[mellow raft]

It also extremely slows down development. A lot of emulators started closed source and moved to an open source model after they matured. Dolphin did. People forget that

[cyan dome]

this is a problem that is easily solved by having patience

[wanton sun]

I don't know to be honest. Can't DV also downscale? not sure what the scaler framebuffer mode does when using DV

[wanton sun]

Everyone can of course close source their stuff, but in the end it will die and that can be very fast.
For example take the Analogue Pocket: the GBA core was great when it came out 2-3 years ago.
But because no one can/will update it with the newest findings, several open source software emulators are now more accurate.

That typically doesn't matter much for old official games, but new homebrew can switch to these new findings as well if it helps to e.g. get more performance out of the console

[zinc dew]

Thank you for explaining it. Open source has such a huge advantage in that regard.

[mortal panther]

We need to open source Robby so others can improve him.

[magic girder]

That wouldn’t take much

[cyan dome]

LibreFingers

[weak hill]

guys i just noticed this in the analogue 3d page "No more incompatibilities found in software emulation like input lag, graphic/audio inaccuracies, timing/frame rate issues", do frame rate issues means, like robert´s turbo core?

i mean for fps?

[hushed nova]

what are you asking exactly?

[weak hill]

that if you think, that analogue 3d will have like an option for "turbo", getting more fps like robert´s turbo core

[worn delta]

You will have to wait and see, nobody here has any inside knowledge on it. I would take Analogue marketing spiel with a heavy pinch of salt however.

[weak hill]

hahaha, i just was asking for your opinion, but if nothing goes wrong again, it will be realease in august

[green epoch]

I think assuming that Analogue will follow through with their promises is setting yourself up for disappointment

but we don't kinkshame here

[worn delta]

I am very interested to see how their core stands up against Robert's MiSTer core, especially if Robert's is likely the basis for the M64 and those two will go head to head.

[green epoch]

I am excited for the M64, assuming any optimizations they find they pour back into the core.

I don't know if they did that with GBC

(not that there were likely many optimizations to find there)

[hushed nova]

maybe it's the same core as the analogue!

[worn delta]

That one does seem like it might be a winner. Will need to see what video out options are etc. but does sound promising for anyone wanting a bespoke N64 machine to plug into their TV

[hushed nova]

I'm just saying if I were in a position where I had something like a fully functional n64 core that a company like analogue wanted to license from me I have no motivation to make that license exclusive without a substantial monetary incentive

[green epoch]

do we know if whether or not they just bought the core from Maz outright?

[worn delta]

Maybe he gets a cut of every unit sold. I would be surprised though if his core was also in the M64, when they could just take Roberts one

[hushed nova]

didn't Maz develop on artix originally?

[worn delta]

I don't recall, is that what is in the M64?

[hushed nova]

they haven't said, but Palmer's AMD tag on his tweet makes me suspect that might be the case

[worn delta]

Interesting

[mossy vector]

Doubtful

[tepid shuttle]

not interested in anything analogue is putting out personally. m64 is more interesting to me for the lower price tag, video options for crt users, and potential use of robert's core

[zealous knot]

This is the big thing. I work in AAA games and I love retro games. I HATE games going out of existence due to being delisted, or hardware dieing, etc. Even worse than that is when someone has spent time doing amazing work on emulation/fpga and then they move on, which is fair enough, but then all of that work is left to rot if its mot open source/documented.
I really believe that if a game isn't continuously being sold, at a fair value, after 10 years then it should be fair and legal to emulate/fpga/whatever.
When I work on my own games in the future I will happily do that to my games, and release the source after a time too.

Game preservation is a huge thing to me

[zinc dew]

omg what do you work on?

[iron wren]

kinectimals

[mortal panther]

I heard he was taking over someone's job at Gearbox... something something Lago. I heard that guy wasn't pulling his weight.
Got a lot of train stuff to clear out of his old office, too.

[hushed nova]

whole office smelt like meat

[mortal panther]

Yeah, that's the guy.

Framed pictures of his own biceps all over the walls.

[iron wren]

Sounds like my office

I work from home

[magic girder]

You have photos of biceps on your home office wall?

[magic girder]

^

[zealous knot]

Can't say what I'm currently on but it's my biggest game yet. Previously worked on horizon zero dawn remastered, need for speed hot persuit remastered, fable Legends, and some other games

[iron wren]

Yes.

[magic girder]

Me too

[iron wren]

evidently working on Glover remastered and doing market research in hobbyist discords, based on your presence here

[spare meadow]

Are you guys playing the new Mario Kart Amped Up v3.0? What options did you choose when asked if you are playing in a real hardware?

[chilly ember]

I chose no but I didn't try the yes option. Only played a couple races

[zinc dew]

I said yes and framerate was best with that option on

[spare meadow]

Thanks!

[mortal panther]

I forgot all about the release. Just downloaded the patch. Thanks for the reminder!

[night saddle]

Hello N64 lovers
We're having a friendly time trial competition for the recently released Mario Kart 64 Amped Up 3.0 hack- 4 different tracks with individiual scoreboards. Challenge is open for the next 3 weeks down in #game-challenge!

[mild widget]

Hey guys I'm new to the mister project only had one for a little bit I'm absolutely loving the Nintendo 64 core and playstation core as that's my favourite era of 3D I was wondering I noticed in the PSX there is a option to render the dithering at a 24 bit colour depth that eliminates the dithering pattern will that ever be an option for the N64 core? 🙂

[wanton sun]

Disabling dithering is easy, but then you only have 5 bit per color in the framebuffer.
The 24bit render mode for PSX does save the additional bits in some extra shadow framebuffer that the game doesn't know of.
Same would be possible for n64 as well if we had space, but I fear that is not the case on the DE10-Nano

[tender pine]

Analogue 3D/N64 controller...out for delivery. I'm genuinely both excited and nervous to get this tested out. Will it over or under deliver?

[raw oriole]

They actually released? Yow! Hope they're good

[neat sierra]

Holy shit. They released with only one delay. That’s impressive for those guys

[tender pine]

I mean this is the 8bitdo controller to pair with the 3D in conjunction with Analogue...

Probably should have been clearer.

[green epoch]

Oh ho ho. One delay this month you mean?

[neat sierra]

Oh I thought your 3D was shipping . That’s due today as well right?

[raw oriole]

Confused now

[tender pine]

No lol the Analogue 3D console is due to ship late next month.

https://amzn.eu/d/ixBk5E4

[tepid shuttle]

the analogue 3D will release in 2036

[tender pine]

This is the controller is was refering by 8bitdo in conjunction with Analogue which is supposed to complement the Analogue 3D but - perhaps more importantly - could also be used using MiSTer.

[tender pine]

Id have almost agreed with you a month or so back but I genuinely do see it shipping now and being in people's hands late August/early September.

[tepid shuttle]

here's hoping. even if i don't intend to buy one, i'm eager to see how it performs and stacks up to the mister core

[tender pine]

That's exactly it. Be it fan or naysayer, it's surely got to be interesting for anybody even remotely interested in either FPGA and/or N64 to see what gets delivered.

[tepid shuttle]

my sights are already set on the m64 though seeing as it apparently has analog video output, unlike the 3D

without their dac anyway

[lament escarp]

||MiSTer|| also has analog out for n64.

[tepid shuttle]

yes but i'd like to use my summercart :p

[neat sierra]

Eh not me, if it’s reproducing 30yr old hardware and not open source not interested

[green epoch]

I’m very interested in the controller, though. 6 face buttons with an analog stick is rare. I’m using this hori pad as my all-around controller and it’s fine, but it doesn’t feel great in the hand. Hoping this is better.

Someone got one yesterday and said it only works on switch mode with the mister, which would be weird.

[tender pine]

That would be weird and not particularly great.

[green epoch]

could be user error. won’t know until today

[tender pine]

Fair comment.

[tepid shuttle]

yeah closed source is a big blow to the analogue for sure

[zinc dew]

Finally a good Sega Saturn controller

[green epoch]

the mad men and women at 8bitdo finally did it. but will it make the saturn playable??

[tender pine]

Well, I don't know if that's necessarily accurate since their products generally sell like hot cakes.

More a blow for the community than Analogue themselves.

[zinc dew]

I do agree but they have a very limited amount of people who can work on FPGA and their cores have developed the reputation of being inaccurate because of longstanding issues they do not fix. When in comparison the equivalent MiSTer cores are always superior because of the community contributing back to help improve it.

That came to a head with their TG16 unit which was released in an unfinished state and had a litany of compatibility issues that were widely reported on. That’s when I started to see comparisons to the MiSTer core from public reactions and it was always presented as being far more accurate.

[mortal panther]

Analog stick?
Six face buttons?
I got you, fam.
https://stores.horiusa.com/fighting-commander-octa-for-playstation-5-playstation-4-and-windows-11-10/

[mellow raft]

I think what @zinc dew is saying is Analogue could just pay @zinc dew royalties and use the MiSTer cores

[zinc dew]

I actually think Analogue does an incredible job for being closed source.

This isn’t a back handed compliment. Knowing what I know now, having their cores come out so well without any sort of extended external testing and a very small team, it’s frankly astonishing it’s as good as it is.

[mortal panther]

How do we know it's just not closed-open-source software though? 👀 🤔

How do you know it's not stolen code, hmm? 😏

[zinc dew]

I have no clue about anything, I just spout shit until I’m proven wrong.

lol

then I shut up

[mortal panther]

I can't prove you wrong... yet... so I guess I'll just have to take the shit.

[jolly turret]

I'm really hoping that the Analogue 3D controller has at least reasonably short input delay, hopefully no more than 15ms.

[mortal panther]

Most of them have traditionally been pretty good on that front, I think.

[zinc dew]

The only question mark I have about the controller is how accurate the analog gate is to a real N64

But I also don’t appreciate analog gate accuracy so it wouldn’t impact me anyways lol

[jolly turret]

Yes, that's also very important. I hope it really delivers.

[mortal panther]

Gate-accurate!

[blazing knot]

We’re forgetting the OG of analog stick with 6 face buttons

[mortal panther]

All that and it has the best D-pad ever?
It's the perfect controller!

[zinc dew]

It’s a pregnant N64 controller.

[blazing knot]

what does that make the Xbox duke controller then?

[mortal panther]

So if Microsoft has 'The Duke', does that make Sega's 'The Duchess'? 🤔

[zinc dew]

The daddy?

Ok look, you win. I don’t want to go down this rabbit hole.

lmao

[mortal panther]

'Fat Princess' to play all the fat baby games?

[zinc dew]

I like the Dreamcast controller but I thought the Saturn one was more comfortable?

It looks silly to me with how circular it is but was pretty comfortable.

Really cool controller

[green epoch]

I have the wireless version of this. It’s fine

[mortal panther]

Took a while to get used to the microswitch buttons.

It's not my favorite, but I don't hate it.

The previous one for the PS4 has been my go-to for many years on MiSTer.

[zinc dew]

What do you think about a micro switch dpad?

[mortal panther]

It's the one and only reason I don't use that Neo Geo repro pad I bought. 😄

It was more egregious and annoying than I expected it to be.

[blazing knot]

microswitch d-pads > rubber dome d-pads, there I said it

[plush summit]

hell yeah clicky dpads

out of all the controllers I own, the most reliable membrane D-Pad is probably the M30

[zinc dew]

I eventually got used to the Retrobit D6 but the micro switch dpad felt less accurate to me. Probably the controller itself.

[plush summit]

I think the best clicky dpads are the Xbox dpads

[mortal panther]

Microswitches feel wonderful and normal on joysticks (arcade control panels, of course, or something like an Epyx 500XJ or Competition Pro 5000 from the '80s during my C64/128 years).
On a D-pad, they just feel... weird.

[plush summit]

damned if you do, damned if you dont, if you want tactile feedback and insurance you're hitting the right diagonals, clicky is the way to go

membrane dpads are all muscle memory

[raw oriole]

If they could be clicky but without the extra half-mm of movement, that'd work for me

That movement through the click gate throws me completely, I can't do microswitched dpads at all

[mild widget]

If I disable dithering with the clean HDMI output mode I just get lots of colour banding So the issue is the space on the DE10? I only have a passing knowledge of this stuff so thanks for the info I was just curious

Thanks for your work on the PSX and N64 core I'm enjoying those the most at the moment It's a nostalgia trip 😄

[zinc dew]

The dithering is what covers up the color banding. It’s a hardware hack to make the N64 appear to support more color bits than it actually does. On a consumer CRT the dithering is typically smoothed out.

[mild widget]

It's ashame I don't own a CRT at the moment

[zinc dew]

You can use a filter to achieve similar results.

[mild widget]

Yeah that's probably what I'm going to have to do 🙂

Cheers Robby

[zinc dew]

At least the N64 has real transparencies!

[blazing knot]

can’t resist throwing shade at the Saturn at every turn

[zinc dew]

I do it out of love lol

The Saturn can do real transparencies too but it’s some VDP thing not a lot of people took advantage of

[wanton sun]

clean HDMI does only disable the dedither, which is a VI(video output chip) functionality to get rid of the dither patterns, but it reduces banding as well.
There is currently no option to disable the dither inside the RDP(rendering chip).
And yes, there is a massive space issue in the DE10-Nano for the n64 core. That's why it's missing savestates, some features like RTC support and other optional features.
Also one of the reasons the core deveopment more or less stopped.

[mild widget]

Also when it comes to transparencies it does it in a weird way look at the cape in guardian heroes where the transparency blocks objects if the cape goes over them lol

[jolly turret]

Everything considered, it's an absolute miracle in my opinion that you were able to squeeze it into the Mister, as it only differs from real hardware in a few very specific cases with normal use.

[mild widget]

Yeah I've used plenty of 64 emulators and were never really satisfied with the compatibility This is as close as you can get to the real thing from just a feel perspective in my opinion

[mild widget]

I'm going to see if it looks any better if I just disable some of the blur effects but keep the dedithering ones active maybe that will be a nice middle ground You've done an excellent job with the core mate given the hardware 🙂

[jolly turret]

Absolutely. The N64 core sealed the deal on the Mister for me. It's the best N64 experience I ever had, better than using the real console in my opinion. I always struggled with N64 emulators as they never fully replicated the same experience and eventually just gave up on them.

I'm just curious if the Mister will at some point receive a follow up device that would allow the core to be fully completed.

[wanton sun]

some day it will happen, I'm sure 🙂

[lament escarp]

If you're especially interested in n64 keep an eye on the anal3d and m64. Probably only better in niche edgecases, but that's all that's left to improve anyway.

[jolly turret]

I'm actually quite curious to get to know how the analogue 3d handles the audio output. Maybe if it doesn't have any audio filtering option present I should just finally submit my N64 filter to be included with the Mister main, just so that we can say that the Mister experience is superior.

[mild widget]

Anal 3D?

[mild widget]

Analogue 3D ok that makes more sense lol

Yes you should I'd be interested in seeing the N64 filter you've created

[blissful wolf]

https://tenor.com/view/sup-girl-eyebrows-gif-25755293

[weak hill]

it is said analogue 3d will support it, like their others fpgas consoles that support that kind of cartridges

[covert bough]

are there design renders of what the m64 looks like?

[mild widget]

[mild widget]

As a pc engine fan that hurts 😔 but I'm glad I can play these classics on the mister now and no more pad hacking or adapters required for my arcade stick

Rondo on stick is next level

[zinc dew]

I think they fixed most if not all issues though

[mild widget]

That's good to know at least they fixed all the issues And didn't just leave it as is

[magic girder]

That said, how many of the open source cores have had lots of people contributing fixes? 😅

Some cores more than others, and any contribution is obviously gratefully received - but the number of devs actively contributing to cores is an incredibly small number 😅

[tepid shuttle]

yes though it still doesn't come with analog video output as far as i remember

unless you want to buy their shitty dac lol

[native mesa]

Has anyone been successful pairing the 8bitdo N64 controller?

[mossy vector]

Pairing to what? And in what mode?

[native mesa]

I got it to work I was just using the old btpair script instead of OSD

[vapid hawk]

there's a hotfix out for amped up 3.0

[tender pine]

I'll be honest. I'm a bit surprised that on forums such as these in particular we haven't had more interest or testing regarding the new N64 variant controller from 8bitdo. Whatever you think of Analogue and it's upcoming system, a new controller aimed solely at N64 is surely a point of interest.

[green epoch]

it's not good

[mild widget]

They've Borked the octagon on the left stick

Also the sticks deadzone is too sensitive

Good luck Tiptoeing

[green epoch]

I'm not a "muh latency" dude, but the wireless latency on this thing is bad. I mentioned it the controller channel but you have to buffer a few frames between pressing z down and pressing jump in mario 64. On my hori I can just roll one right into another

[mild widget]

Wow... Yeah I'm not the biggest muh latency guy either but having to buffer an input because of input lag is ridiculous lol

[green epoch]

There is a firmware update apparently

and maybe that will allow it to pair in dinput which might help?

[mild widget]

8bitdo have always been spotty with their latency

At least in the their older Bluetooth pads I've heard the 2.4ghz is a little better but nothing amazing

[green epoch]

yeah, and I guess I am also used to 2.4ghz. But my m30 bluetooth controllers never felt this bad

[mild widget]

The Bluetooth didn't feel too bad either when I first got it but then I started using more wired peripherals and now I can feel the difference

[green epoch]

oh yeah, i refuse to use wired because then the brain worms won't be able to let it go and I'll just be tethered to everything

[quick light]

Which is strange as the M30 (2.4ghz) is supposed to be around 10ms of latency.

Same as their arcade stick. But I can't feel anything or notice anything with the M30

[green epoch]

no, the m30s are great

so is the arcade stick (and the new leverless stick)

but this pad is bad

hopelly the 3D is better baked

[quick light]

That is bad news.

[tender pine]

Right, but based off what and/or who's testing...

Edit: sorry, I posted this without seeing the feedback since.

I see people are down on it 'only' being Bluetooth but I've had controllers which weirdly have lower latency under Bluetooth than 2.4ghz...

Bluetooth needn't be a dirty word in the right hands.

[raw oriole]

You also have to be a little lucky on your local 2.4GHz radio enviromnent; I've been places where bt was laggy as fuuuuuuuck due to interference

But I use it all the time at home

[raw oriole]

(partly for the same reason as this tbf - OLED has already ruined me for IPS and such!)

[tender pine]

It's true. 2.4ghz connection alone isn't a silver bullet.

[raw oriole]

bt is 2.4GHz too, specs wise (in case of confusion there, I meant bt)

[tender pine]

Anyhow. I'm gutted to hear about the new N64 controller but still would like to see some video reviews showcasing exactly why it's unacceptable...

[mortal panther]

I still love the Brawler 64.

[zinc dew]

Did you get the initial batch lol

[mortal panther]

I don't think so. It had been out for a while before I decided to get one. Did the first ones have issues?

Mine's the Bluetooth NSO Edition, standard gray with typical N64 colors.

I mainly use it wired via USB though.

[zinc dew]

Oh the controllers are cool, the initial batch just had the left bumper block the analog stick if you pressed down on it lol.

They sent replacements out to everyone so it’s a non-issue. I just think it’s funny and I love giving controller to friends for MP.

[mortal panther]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_0JDfMYA8M

[zinc dew]

inb4 they ruined the artistic vision and only Nintendo gets it crowd

It looks extremely good tho, probably someone’s college portfolio piece?

[plush summit]

It has a Wind Waker flair to it

[tender pine]

All these wonderful but becoming increasingly rare bespoke game engines and then we have UE...urgh.

[cyan dome]

nintendo ruined the artistic vision themselves on the 3DS admittedly

[blazing knot]

i always new something was missing from MM, and it was microstutters that only UE can provide 😌

[tender pine]

Disagree. It only complimented the N64 original. I found the updated models gelled quite nice. Granted I'll always prefer the strictly N64 aesthetic but that's likely nostalgia speaking than me being objective.

[mild widget]

Wasn't the stick range Borked on the earlier batches too?

I remember hearing about it so I just forgot about the brawlers and stuck to my original pads lol

[bright lotus]

out of all HIRE THIS MAN, NINTENDO things this isn't bad

[sullen harbor]

Can the pad connect via usb

And what is the latency like there

[green epoch]

it can and I don’t know - wired has no use for me, unfortunately

[sullen harbor]

Okay cool. I'll be ordering a pad myself and let people know what the experience is like with it

I want to see if it works with pc as wrll

[sullen harbor]

But I got the saffun and nso controller if it ends up being a wash

[mild widget]

Hell yeah let us know I was interested in getting one of the secondary controller as I'm perfectly fine with the N64 pad But a lot of people aren't lol

[sullen harbor]

Yeah

I'm also a weirdo that vastly prefers wired gaming to wireless

[mortal panther]

Either one of my MiSTers sits less than 3' away from me while gaming, so it makes no sense for me to not use wired.

[zinc dew]

Wired is inferior for gaming. With wireless the signal goes to both the controller and your brain so you’re able to receive and send feedback faster thanks to the dual pronged approach.

[coral hill]

Looks like every single material is made out of plastic.

The naughty dog style of cartoony graphics, everything made from the same material.

[languid dune]

It's the only logical conclusion.

[upper pivot]

Wow the 8bitdo controller I had preordered ages ago was delivered today

Guessing others got theirs too? Have missed some backlog lol

[zinc dew]

Yeah, bunch of people talking about it in #controllers

[upper pivot]

Did not even know that channel existed 😳

[mortal panther]

Just trying to avoid ||spoilers||. 😉

[random bloom]

I know I'm a little late to this convo, but very much not a fan of the stick on this controller. It feels designed to be super sensitive for fighting games and getting values in between cardinals and 45 degree diagonals feels off. Dpad also felt pretty meh. I ended up trying to mod the dpad to use microswitches with an arcade stick like mechanism. Couldn't quite get it feeling right though.

[mortal panther]

You're absolutely right. It was designed specifically for that. I agree with every observation.

I absolutely love the prior version of it though. It's been my 'daily driver' for MiSTer for several years now. Ridiculously difficult to find new now. I knew I should have bought more than one back then.

My two favorite controllers (the M30 rounds out the Top 3).

[random bloom]

That one didn't have a stick though, right? I've definitely heard a lot of good things about them for fighting games.

My fave dpad is currently a modded razer raion. The original run didn't have a centre pivot, which meant you could get them for dirt cheap used. It was easy to make a centre pivot though and it took the dpad from garbage to god tier, provided you like the microswitches

[mortal panther]

Correct, no stick on that previous model.

(shown above)

[random bloom]

Yeah, that's a good combo 💜

[mortal panther]

The only thing that keeps the M30 in that position for me was their decision to remain a little too faithful to its design inspiration and not make the X, Y, and Z buttons the same size and shape as the A, B, and C buttons... but that D-pad just feels sublime.

[zinc dew]

Try out the D6 controller, it’s got a micro switched dpad.

But like, buy it from a vendor you can easily return it to just incase you don’t like it

[green epoch]

This is still my daily mister driver: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DVB2JB1K

its only crime is that the dongle is USB C

and they should be put in jail for that

[mortal panther]

Harsh...

[random bloom]

Ooooh, might have to check it out. Cheers

[mortal panther]

Not meaning to continue a discussion about controllers here, but I've seen a lot of mixed reactions specifically pertaining to the D-pad... for what that's worth.
It was supposedly designed specifically for the slew of Dreamcast fighters, but I've seen a lot of complaints about the stiffness of the D-pad, and how there appears to be a lot of travel before the switches are even activated.
Overall build quality, comfort, and features seem excellent though.

I have no personal experience with it though. I've been meaning to pick one up out of curiosity.

[zinc dew]

The D6? Yeah, I think all those comments are valid. I had issues with diagonals too.

I got used to it? Not sure how to describe it but I accounted for its behavior and don’t have problems with it now.

[mortal panther]

Just seemed like a strange complaint to read about for a controller designed for those games. 😄

[zinc dew]

So I tell people to make sure they can return it easily because that dpad will make it or break it for you.

[mortal panther]

Some say it's perfect for those though...

[zinc dew]

Yeah I dunno, it was super weird and I didn’t like it until I got used to it. But that’s not really good feedback lol.

[mortal panther]

Was about to pick one up on Amazon, and saw the reviews pretty much split down the middle.

...and Amazon will probably accept returns on used diapers, so I figured why not. 😏

[tender pine]

Joining the convo. I just picked up a controller yesterday which may or may not - time will tell - end up being a fabulous Mister controller.
https://amzn.eu/d/0RsglY5

[zinc dew]

Yo tell us how well the little baby analog sticks work

[tender pine]

Check it out if you've not already. Granted it won't be any good barring for in a pinch for N64, but few meet that requirement outside of OEM.

[zinc dew]

Bruh, I’m lazy. I straight up use an M30 for N64 and switch the dpad to analog stick mode lmao.

[tender pine]

I hope you are joking right now...

[magic girder]

Legend

[zinc dew]

NOPE

[tender pine]

Suddenly I feel nauseous...

[magic girder]

I used my M30 to play lunar on the PSX 😅

[tender pine]

My daily mister controller has been for ages...ibuffalo snes variant.

[magic girder]

Ew WIRES

🤢

[tender pine]

You better believing it...

[magic girder]

I have a cat. My MiSTer would be on the floor if I used a wired controller

[tender pine]

It's a long wire and I don't sit too far from the TV. I also have a cat so only use mister when he's out and about.

I'm not even joking.

[magic girder]

Why not just… wireless?

[tender pine]

I don't trust the latency enough.

Lag is an important factor why I got into mister in the first place.

[magic girder]

I dunno, with a decent TV on game mode with VRR and a decent 2.4G controller, it’s fine for me

But I’m not a pro gamer or anything

[lament escarp]

Because you're having fun, right?

[tender pine]

Likewise and it would probably be fine for me, more than fine. It's just my OCD plays havoc.

[magic girder]

Because saving <10ms isn’t gonna be the difference between me dying or not on a game

One day when you’re old @lament escarp, and your reactions are measured on a timescale of minutes, you’ll be the same

[tender pine]

Also, being a noob, can I ask how VRR help lag? Never really understand it's proper use case if I'm honest.

[lament escarp]

Because you die anyway.

[magic girder]

For sure

[cyan dome]

I LOVE WIRES

[magic girder]

Well I guess it’s more about if you can match your TV up to the same output frequency of the console

[cyan dome]

FUCK LITHIUM

[zinc dew]

I have great news to share with you

[cyan dome]

and AAA batteries

[magic girder]

So you don’t get stuttering every now and then

When I first turned it on, I was blown away how smooth the scrolling was

[tender pine]

So is it right to say if you have a very TV then always enable it in the mister ini? No downsides to enabling it?

[magic girder]

None that I’m aware of

[tender pine]

VRR not very, sorry.

[magic girder]

But I’ve only had a sufficiently good TV for… a few weeks 😅

[zinc dew]

My good news is that you have plenty of built-in lag already

[magic girder]

Don’t listen to Robby, he is a miserable pile of secrets who sits on a throne of lies

[green epoch]

Just a pro tip to you VRRers, if you’re enabling VRR, change your vsync_adjust setting to 1 or 2

leaving it at 0 puts you into sorg mode

and your tv will not like sorg mode

only sorg’s tv likes sorg mode

[magic girder]

#1312772542091497472 message

[green epoch]

One day I will file a bug about that and see if sorg has any appetite to look into it. I think Zack already tried, so it may be a dead end.

[magic girder]

vsync_adjust 2 doesn’t like me. Not with the PSX core anyway

Drops sync like crazy on my TV

[tender pine]

What TV exactly?

[magic girder]

LG C4

[tender pine]

Damn that's a pretty premium TV too by all accounts. Mine appears ok enough and it's a much earlier model, LGCX.

[green epoch]

open up dino crisis and swap between the menu and the game - that’s one of the good torture tests

[tender pine]

Excellent. Thanks. Always looking for good stress tests 👍

And loading up Dino Crisis is good anyhow.

[zinc dew]

I have an LGCX too

[tender pine]

Misery loves company.

[zinc dew]

I don’t use my mister with it though, I use it on the worst tv in my house

[tender pine]

Size CX you got? This is the real test...

[zinc dew]

55”

[tender pine]

No credibility. 48 is the connoisseurs choice.

[zinc dew]

lol how come

[green epoch]

So tiny, how do you guys see anything on that thing

[tender pine]

I squint...

Also I have a vivid imagination.

[tender pine]

If you gotta ask you already can't know...

[mortal panther]

I feel like such a schlub with my 65" LG B6 model OLED from 2016... 🙁

I don't even deserve to be on this server anymore.

Just forget you ever saw me here...

[tender pine]

Honestly? I wish you hadn't mentioned it...

[blazing knot]

literally unwatchable

[tender pine]

Charity begins at home...

[raw oriole]

Interested question: any burnin damage? I'm not seeing any on my B7

[blazing anvil]

What type of file format does mister expect for N64 saves? So far I found mpk, sra and .sav🤷‍♂️

So I have an mpk (converted from .n64 dexdrive backup)

[magic girder]

I had a 2009/10 LCD until a few weeks ago 😎

[blazing anvil]

Found it by searching discord hoorah

[latent dagger]

Too bad there's no such thing as a USB-C to A cap you can put on it.
Someone in this community should do that, they'd probably make a bunch of money.

[green epoch]

Oh they exist. I am using one of these guys on it https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CY1Y3TSQ

[latent dagger]

I was being sarcastic 😂

I wonder if we'll get an updated USB board at some point with a couple type-c ports on it

[green epoch]

Take it easy on me - I haven’t had enough caffeine yet

[mild widget]

https://youtu.be/6SL5MqRVgX8?si=zdH1zTdq929Z0rY2

"no mercy" was given

[blazing anvil]

@tiny latch are you still active here. The cpk mpk thing isn't really working for me.

[mortal panther]

Nope, none at all. That's not to say it doesn't have image retention issues, but long ago I drastically adjusted my viewing habits with that TV, and it's been fine ever since. I am extremely selective about the type of content I view on it. Small price to pay.

But yeah, they hadn't quite nailed the temporary image retention mitigation by that point yet.
Some colors are worse than others (red and especially yellow). Things like yellow menu buttons for Plex or Amazon Prime Video if left on-screen in the same spot for about 30 seconds will leave behind a shadowy silhouette which will eventually go away completely after approximately the same amount of time.
I don't play any games on it that have persistent static HUD images though. I have other TVs for that.

[raw oriole]

Interesting - yeah, I heard (long after buying it!) that the B7 was the first really safe OLED against burnin, so glad to hear the 6 ain't bad either!

[mortal panther]

All things considered, I'm thinking my next one will be a 65" Bravia 7/9.

[tiny latch]

I'm still here, what cpk mpk thing again?

converting the saves?

[blazing anvil]

@tiny latch yes that's the one. I've transferred eeprom saves from Perfect dark cartridge to the original controller pack using the original console. Copied it to my pc using a dexdrive, converted the .N64 file to mpk, removed the saves from another game that was present and then renamed to romname_1.cpk. but when I boot into perfect dark it says the controller pack is damaged 🤷‍♂️

I double checked I overwrote the existing cpk on the Mister. But mister doesn't see any controller pack

[tiny latch]

ugh yeah, that stuff was a pain. I wasn't even entirely sure why mine worked at the end, I thought I did the same thing multiple times and then it worked. What did you use to convert the save?

Also, I can tell you that for Perfect Dark specifically, I put a controller pak in and copied my profiles to the controller pak in Perfect Dark itself. Then I took the controller pak saves and converted those. So I never worked with the eeprom saves directly

[blazing anvil]

Copied my saves from the cartridge eeprom to the controller pack too (I don't have HW to dump the cartridge). I used this https://bryc.github.io/mpkedit/ to delete the Duke Nukem saves so only PD save was left, saved and renamed to .cpk.

If you are asking about .N64 to .mpk I used https://savefileconverter.com/#/n64/dexdrive

Maybe I can format another controller pack and just put the PD saves on it and nothing else and try again

[tiny latch]

Yep those are the sites I used too. I ran into a ton of issues and kind of lucked into it at the end I think

Ultimately it came down to having the PD save be the only thing on one of the controller pak saves, and then loading that using the core and transferring it

Wish I could help more, what I said back in October is most of the info I have.

[blazing anvil]

Aha got it!

I had to set the controller to controller pack. But...for the 2nd controller. There's only one connected so I only set the first. So it's just a straight rename once you got the mpk.

You gave me motivation haha. I've spent about half a day non stop on this

[zinc dew]

Yo, any N64 super fans here?

Does anyone know what the deadzone range is for an original and perfect condition N64 stick?

[magic girder]

No

[mortal panther]

It's a myth.

[tiny latch]

Awesome! I feel your pain, it is not intuitive at all. At the end, really cool to have old saves carried forward to the mister though! Glad you figured it out

[iron wren]

8

[dusty tusk]

Would it be possible to modify the Mario Kart 64 decomp to spread out the time trial ghosts between all four memory paks?

[swift drift]

What do you mean one delay? My controller date changed about 3 times.

It finally got delivered today. At my apartment door, right as I arrived at work. (Typical luck for me)

[blazing anvil]

I'm going to try and region change it now. To NTSC. At first glance they're not compatible but I am using a modded NTSC ROM

[neat sierra]

Sorry thought they meant the console

[spare meadow]

8BitDo is selling its N64 controller on its official AliExpress store.

[mortal panther]

I simply bought mine through Amazon. $39.99. Should be here in a few more days.

[zinc dew]

Don’t make my mistake of buying directly from them 🤣

[void mauve]

Anyone get the new 8bitdo 64 controller working in mister?

The right analog stick doesn't register up or down and the camera buttons aren't working.

[glossy lake]

Did you setup the buttons on the main menu before loading the core?

[blazing anvil]

Hmm nice controller. You'd have to map in the core too

[mortal panther]

Map analog sticks along with all of the other typical buttons in MiSTer main before the core is loaded. Skip all input options that aren't applicable, but make sure to finish that process. Complete the mapping process for all buttons that are unique to the N64 in the N64 core.

[blazing anvil]

My analog stick usually doesn't register in mister main menu (using an original controller though)

[void mauve]

Dude you have to set it to S 🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽

I synced it in S mode and everything worked out of the box.

Feels really good.

[dusty tusk]

Yea really easy to mess things up and use Ƨ mode on accident

[zinc dew]

Does the 8BitDo controller rumble in S mode?

[dusty tusk]

The ultimate does, I'd assume so

[void mauve]

Sure does. @zinc dew

Played the Japanese super Mario 64 with rumble support. Was able to do all my Mario moves with rumble. Feels great.

[dusty tusk]

There's a hack that adds rumble to American wave race as well that feels great

[zinc dew]

Awesome!

[void mauve]

$40 is a little much for just a Bluetooth controller but overall I'm happy with the product. I am running the beta v1.3 firmware that fixes the analog stick issues

[alpine glen]

Got mine 8Bitdo 64 controller, put in S mode, and use the beta firmware (1.02)for the controller, and update the 8bitdo wireless dongle 2 tot latest firmware. Bind the buttons in main, and in n64core. All is working well, but I have no rumble. Checked in osd in core that I have selected rumble pack, selected pad 1 type “rumble pack” fzero x wil see mine rumble pack, but still no rumble support. All the other games who has rumble support, does not rumble. Any ideas?

[cedar forge]

the website says this

[vapid hawk]

if it can rumble on switch its probably possible to get it rumbling on mister too, or at least blueretro gets all kind of switch controllers to rumble

[teal citrus]

https://youtu.be/0cpjhIS6ClI

Today I learned that the N64 had memory paks higher than 32KB.

Although, they were custom-made by Nintendo, and in a way Datel, and nobody else.

Also, no emulator could run anything higher than 32.

[lament escarp]

This is the same for the n64 modkit from 8bitdo. But it has issues reconncting to mister after being turned off. Maybe they'll finally fix it after all these years. 🤡

[worn delta]

Is there something the core doesn't support because of this?

[dusty tusk]

Think of all the MK64 time trial ghosts we could store on a larger controller pak

[void mauve]

@alpine glen ditch the wireless dongle. Rumble works in S mode over Bluetooth on MisTER