Nintendo 64

[craggy cradle]

it's definitely the last Analogue console I'll buy

[green epoch]

I make poor financial decisions and suffer from fomo, so I’m basically their ideal customer

[craggy cradle]

I buy stuff that I think is cool and that I WILL USE

that why I'm not looking at the Analogue 3D

[plush summit]

If a company like Analogue can't properly support and follow up on their products, it kinda shows how difficult it is to break in

[craggy cradle]

to tell you the truth, any company with the certain "marketing" will flag that they are just in to sell and not support

[plush summit]

pretty much

[craggy cradle]

which is turning out to be most of the retro space now-a-days

[zinc dew]

did someone shit on me for my rant

It’s ok if they did, I’m just too lazy to catch up on chat lol

[green epoch]

nah, they started getting into an emulation argument so I threw an analogue flash bang and disoriented them

[zinc dew]

emulation is awesome

I really dislike how expensive retro game collecting has become and how haphazard it’s been having those games available on modern platforms

[quick light]

Tell me about it

I'm glad i watched Alphaomegasin when I did. All them years ago. (He was the reason I got started in retro collecting)

[green epoch]

I just think the “are FPGAs just emulators” argument is like a top 5 most boring argument of all time

[quick light]

With how cheap the Mister Pi is, I really see no downside to going with a mister instead of say a retropie setup or something along them lines.

I won't use anything else than my mister for emulation now.

[mossy vector]

Eh. It's more like words have meaning. Already lost the clipping through walls battle in 1995 and am still sore about it.

It's not clipping against walls. The code is noclipping.

[green epoch]

yeah, but meanings and words evolve as language evolves. throw a stone any direction in your house and the thing you hit’s name is likely a word that was used for something else 100 years ago.

[blissful wolf]

yeah but since he uses chatgpt to write most of his scripts the bot isn't up to date on mister developments

[scenic jolt]

Except OOT+MM randomizer doesn't load for unknown reasons

So far the Mister hasn't yet replaced Everdrive for reasons like this

[plush summit]

Let's try this again

Is there something the Everdrive does for the randomizer?

[weary beacon]

i have a weird relationship with the n64 core for this reason. it can do some things way better than real hardware (cpu turbo, video options), but many hacks and conversions that run on an everdrive/summercart won't run here

[mortal panther]

For someone who cares little to nothing about things like that though, the N64 core is practically perfect.

[plush summit]

Like I said, if the Flashcart does something away from the OG hardware, then its not technically running on real hardware

[weary beacon]

that's fair, but i don't think the core will replace a real N64 until DD support gets added, at least for me

there are some SM64 hacks that work on real hardware that don't in the core though, and that confuses me, because i don't think they should be doing anything that requires extra hardware provided by a flash cartridge

[thorny marten]

Technically its not running on real hardware just with a flashcart.

[weary beacon]

???

[thorny marten]

The flashcart isnt the actual cartridge thats hardware too technically

[plush summit]

Its like that NES game kickstarter

Claims to work on a real NES, but the cartridge is doing the HEAVY lifting

[weary beacon]

well yeah, there's always some homebrew like that, or paprium on genesis, where the cart does most of the work

but a lot of rom hacks don't behave that way

[vagrant ivy]

same with the Atari 2600 carts that have a massively powerful arm chip in them. Its not an Atari 2600 at that point

[plush summit]

ideally, if we could isolate those cases, it would benefit the core

but we can't expect Robert to do it himself

[vagrant ivy]

The core is almost filling the DE10 there is little room for anything extra

[topaz otter]

I mean technically the gameshark is running its own OS that goes between the game and the machine

[weary beacon]

i talked about one hack, Peach's Fury, with another user about a week ago. it runs really well on a real N64, but loading it on the core just gives you a black screen. neither of us could get it working

it's just one example, but maybe it's a start

[little socket]

don't get me started with those super fx games

[turbid warren]

didn't sd2snes have a hell of a time getting Super Mario RPG working

[weary beacon]

it still struggles with it no?

i swear the latest firmware still had some issues with it

[cerulean elk]

It’s a bummer that doesn’t work

[weary beacon]

very much so

[cerulean elk]

I was just uploading another rom hack vid on the core and was asking people for more to test. So many out there

[plush summit]

I'm all for more homebrew, but let's get as much collaboration done first

[upper pivot]

Comparing an everdrive or summercart to one of these other specialized cartridges with powerful coprocessors is just silly… they might support some extra features like usb comms, etc., but I doubt the rom hacks being referred to here require an everdrive to work. If they were burned on an original rom cart they would probably work just as well.

[weary beacon]

my thoughts exactly

[plush summit]

I mean, the MSU-1 for SNES literally uses the FPGA on the flashcart to work

[upper pivot]

But we aren’t talking about that…

The rom hacks being talked about work in standard N64 software emulators too I assume.

[plush summit]

That's what we're trying to figure out, if games can work without the need of a flashcart

If so, what can the core do to fix it?

[weary beacon]

i'd bet almost every console-compatible SM64 hack would work if it was flashed it to a rom chip like a real cart

[rich warren]

well - ruleset did have to make several game specific patches on retail carts to get them working on the MiSTer. There are some memory timing things a hack dev might have to do to make a MiSTer version.

[upper pivot]

I’m not sure where you got the idea that the rom hacks are relying on some special flash cart feature to work. If that were the case, they wouldn’t work in software emulators either. It’s a lot more likely that the core has some bugs that prevent them from running properly.

Or timing issues as mentioned above

[tidal zenith]

I am also really confused about this prompt because he then proceeds to show GE007 having trouble hitting 60 fps and then complaining that angrylion/vulkan struggle but that game was never 60fps or even close.

[plush summit]

I'm not saying all rom hacks do, but at the same time, what do we know right now that can solve it?

If there's no code or reasoning, then nobody is right lol

[upper pivot]

Likely @wanton sun is the only one knowledgeable enough regarding his core to debug these cases, and I’m not sure he finds it worth his time.

The black screen right away in the peach hack though might be low hanging fruit

[lean spruce]

If I remember correctly not all functions were implemented in the Mister Core, "only" all functions used by retail library. This means not all N64 functions are implemented and if homebrew relies on any function that is not used in retail library it wont work

[plush summit]

that makes sense

[lean spruce]

i think specifically libdragon or something like that was not fully implemented since lots of instructions were not utiliced by retail games

[plush summit]

Okay now we're cooking, thank Tenshin!

[lean spruce]

np, i remember Robert talking about low motivation to implement instructions that would take a lot of effort that is not even used by any retail game

[compact lark]

On a CRT, the N64 looks blurry while the PS2 looks very sharp, like sharper than wii/GameCube games even though the PS2 has way more jaggies for sure.
As to colors, i feel like this speaks more to the trends of game devs in the N64 era vs the ps2 era, especially by the mid 2000s

[plush summit]

Now Im starting to recall those discussions, yeah, its making more sense of the core's behavior now

[rich warren]

PS2 looks so awesome over component on a CRT. That system knew it was going to full of 480i content and its interlacing is sharp af

[plush summit]

@upper pivot @weary beacon I think you have your answer now 😛

[weary beacon]

it seems so

[plush summit]

Right now, it might not be a priority, but things changes overtime

[upper pivot]

I don’t think that’s true

I think there was an issue with libdragon stuff but @wanton sun said he solved it a year back

Also, he’s not “implementing” libraries. Mister 64 is full LLE (low level emulation)

To my understanding, the primary differences against real hardware are RDRAM timing/access issues due to the shared SDRAM and likely some hard to find bugs here and there.

[lean spruce]

I´m pretty sure he has said not all N64 instructions were implemented, but hopefully he will clarify

[upper pivot]

I find that highly unlikely at this point. But yeah, let’s see what he says when he’s around. 🙂

[plush summit]

Im like the least well versed in this core, but its awesome to see the discussions

@weary beacon @upper pivot good talk fellas 🍻

[warped cobalt]

I just noticed what might be a bug playing Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine (US) with original N64 controller plus original rumble pack (NUS-013) via SNAX: When I moved the boulder in the first level, rumble started but never stopped. The solution was to disconnect and reconnect the rumble pack to cause the infinite rumble to go away. Is this a known problem with the game?

[fierce girder]

I don’t remember that happening to me with real hardware but it’s been a year or more since I played it.

[zinc dew]

I think when we get beyond the scope of original games and into rom hacks and homebrew it gets a bit dicey. Obviously if it runs on real hardware then it should run on MiSTer. But that’s down the priority list over getting the actual library running as flawlessly as possible.

But it’s great hearing those reports. Thank you for being such an awesome community for testing so much.

[ivory laurel]

The MVG video might be biased towards the Analogue product. Maybe that’s about to happen and the narrative of being the only hope hooks people

[tidal zenith]

very few of the retro youtubers do mister justice really, some do, rarely.

for some reason mister has to be perfect while all other options can be imperfect

[zinc dew]

When I say “dicey” I mean that we’re over 20 years out from the original hardware’s lifespan. Homebrew authors do some ridiculous shit and really push the hardware in new and extremely clever ways. So I’m not entirely surprised there are incompatibilities.

[zinc dew]

Yeah it’s a bit frustrating but I am biased as hell lol.

So maybe they have a more even keel assessment than I do.

[turbid warren]

i'm not too terribly interested in romhacks don't work on mister cause i do have an everdrive and an actual N64 but it'd be nice if they worked on mister 🙂

[tidal zenith]

I suppose so, or I suppose the pre-misterpi pricing put it at a lever where it needed to be perfect

[worn delta]

Have people found new things that run on OG hardware but not on MiSTer?

[zinc dew]

I think there’s that OOT + MM randomizer that doesn’t work but does on the Everdrive.

[worn delta]

Ah OK. I wonder what is causing those not to run

[neon heron]

On passing glance, I thought Robby just confirmed himself as Bear Grylls

[vapid hawk]

Isn’t that oot and mm rom probably bigger than any real cartridge ?

I think the core tops out at the size of the largest actual retail game

[worn delta]

That's a good point, how big is the ROM?

[tidal zenith]

67MB

[cerulean elk]

That’s because MiSTer sucks!

@zinc dew come tell them about Pi

[zinc dew]

[cerulean elk]

No but seriously there’s like 5% of commenters who just want to make MiSTer sound like some emulation scam and we’re all lying to people about what it does. I do not know why. I feel like it’s people who can’t afford one and hate it because they can’t have it 🤷🏻‍♂️

[hushed nova]

honestly some of it is probably lingering annoyance/backlash over the early mister days where there were a bunch of weirdos on the internet yelling about how it isn't emulation and it is by default more accurate than any software emulator

like somehow fpgas magically made developers perfect

[cerulean elk]

People just want to be angry. They get mad at me and I’m just 100% positive all the time. And when I’m not (SuperSEGA) I try and make it funny

Case in point I get THIS 🤣

@languid dune must be off his meds

[hushed nova]

what exactly happened at the end there

[turbid warren]

ran out of English, switched to Latin

[desert crow]

latin i think, maybe speaking in tongues

[tidal zenith]

they ran out of gpt4o tokens

[zinc dew]

I wish I was this unhinged, what an awesome comment

[turbid warren]

i wish i had even half of this energy goddamn

[tidal zenith]

this type of untethered rage is what they took from us millenials

[desert crow]

so msu can make pixel perfect ports from arcade? I was thinking the sprites were a different size for like sf2

[zinc dew]

the end is an actual Catholic salutation in Latin. It’s called the The Immaculate Conception.

[tidal zenith]

jesus

[zinc dew]

close, Mary

[upper pivot]

So basically the guy is a nutjob?

[neon heron]

Nah, just lazy because he didn’t replace CHRISTUS with Miyamoto

or shout “BACON DELENDA EST”

[zinc dew]

Yeah, I’m trying to unravel it. The Latin phrase at the end has its roots in the very heated Immaculists vs Maculist debate amongst the clergy in Spain. He might see his opinion as one side of that debate and being so rooted in Spaniard history, could see his perspective as the loyal to Spanish royalty who ended up pressuring the Holy See into declaring it a dogma of faith and therefor the winning side.

[tidal zenith]

robby is a mod of latin/catholicism too

what other hidden talents does this man have

[neon heron]

That or just really into warhammer 40k

[desert crow]

you don't want to hear about the bloody van story.

[cerulean elk]

Or…alt idea…he’s just crazier than a shit house rat

[neon heron]

Robby’s hidden talent?

[blissful plaza]

#software-emulation message

Aleck 64 support on Ares coming soon.

(I know that will wake up moondandy 😏 )

[worn delta]

Oh, ace, we can see what they did to get them to run and what file format they use. Great timing!

On these 67MB ROMs, is there a hard cap on the core of 64MB? If so where does the limitation come from?

[mortal panther]

If only this was a proper channel and not a thread, we'd be able to effectively search for previous comments regarding that...

[mossy vector]

The SDRAM is shared with other needs like the 9th bit.

[languid dune]

I just took my medication!

[tidal zenith]

I think it's time to retire threads

they're awful on discord

[worn delta]

With 128MB SD ram surely it can theoretically handle a 67MB ROM?

[tidal zenith]

don't call me shirley

but also, I would imagine so? Neogeo can load 128MB roms

[chrome quest]

Testing analog output on a few cores for some reason today and found a difference in the N64 core and my PAL N64.
Unlike SMS and Megadrive testing, I am pretty sure I did see someone else in this channel once test N64 output, so curious anyone can raise a hand to checking output with/without overscan before.

Left: PAL N64 with Stadium 2, Right: MiSTer core

Perhaps previous testing would have only been NTSC?

At least compared to confusion testing other cores, I've found the analog capture and viewed image on the CRT are both off in the same way, by the same amount (within what my eye thinks anyway).
MiSTer image is about 2 pixels shifted to the right.

Interesting to see MiSTer also doesn't have some of the left most part of the image. Maybe I just got unlucky testing on this screen (MiSTer reports as 640x576i)

Without switching between live I'd never have noticed the difference to be fair.
In that left region where MiSTer doesn't have some of the image, you can even see the lines of the floor tiles in the game cut off because (at least on my CRT) it is well inside the overscan region so nobody would notice anyway 😄

[mossy vector]

The elbow is also cut off on the right image?

[wanton sun]

the big question is: how does it look on HDMI? does it display those pixels? if yes, it's a simple analog shift, if not, the whole image would be wrong from the VI

about the romhacks: as people changed the code that are more open than big companies, the chance for fixes is higher.
If it's a black screen from the start, that's probably some easier case than a random hang ingame.
Does Ares run these?

[upper pivot]

@wanton sun this is wrong right?

Aside from the timing issues that can’t be fixed and a few potential remaining random bugs, the core should be complete?

[chrome quest]

Got a HDMI screenshot from MiSTer. Looks like the HDMI matches the analog output, which is not just a shift as @mossy vector spotted, the MiSTer has less image to the left (at the desk) and to the right (past the persons elbow)

[chrome quest]

MiSTer is showing this different, reduced horizontal image compared to my original hardware. Don't know if it's worth anyone else testing too?

I guess my initial CRT horizontal concern can wait until that is correct.

No idea if this is common across any other resolutions or anything, this was just the one I tested yesterday looking for a single screen to compare with my original PAL N64

[wanton sun]

can take a look the next days what is going on. Please remind me if i forget

[vapid hawk]

what game is it?

[wanton sun]

should be stadium 2

[vapid hawk]

can n64 games even be wider than 640? thats interesting

[wanton sun]

well complete is a VERY difficult word. Things that are not complete:

• PIF is not low level emulated (4bit microcontroller + original firmware)
• RSP is not dual issue (potentially higher speed of RSP)
• TLB for data is not 32 way, but iterative (FPGA fabric too slow)
• FPU has some edge case timings not implemented (FPGA fabric too slow)
• RDRAM controller not emulated (e.g. reading bit 9 not possible from CPU)
• CPU cannot be switched to little endian mode and possibly more strange settings of the CPU like debug functionality

So there is plenty of "fun" for implementing these edge case stuff if anyone wants to 😅

[vapid hawk]

wasnt there some unimplemented 64bit stuff that would only ever be used by linux aswell

[wanton sun]

ah yes, 64bit TLB is also missing

[vapid hawk]

and i don't think we ever did controller timings like on psx - though possibly that doesn't apply to n64

[wanton sun]

i measured controller timings against snac, especially to get the emulated transfer pak work with the same timings as an original via snac 🙂

so it SHOULD be very close, but there was no formal test

[vapid hawk]

ah cool

[silent marten]

Isn't there also some GB mappers missing for TPak games?

[spare meadow]

The core is perfect as it is. I doubt that the Analogue 3D will be as practical as the Mister core is.
The only feature I miss is the native 64DD support that would be an amazing additional feature, even if it was a separate core.
Theoretically it would be possible to implement it within the current hardware (de10 nano)?

[silent marten]

Does it need native support considering they work if you patch them?

[lament escarp]

I think the gb mappers would've been part of the tpak, so it's kinda how you define the n64 and if they need to be there.

[silent marten]

Yeah I understand that I just vaguely remember that the 2nd generation pokemon games don't work in Stadium 2 or something like that

[lament escarp]

I'd argue the automatic save file transfer between gb core and n64 core makes more than up for that.

[silent marten]

Ohh yeah that is true, I forgot about that feature 🙂

[lament escarp]

I'm only playing gen1 so far to get surfing pikachu, but I didn't notice any issues yet when playing pokemon on the gb core and then transferring them to stadium. I'll probably complete gen2 at some point and try to complete stadium 2. 👍

[worn delta]

Yeah there are a few GB mappers missing, if you look at tab on the testing sheet it shows what works and what is missing. Maybe in a GitHub ticket as well? I can't remember, but it is documented

Whoever is working on the readme should have a section that covers this if they don't already

[wanton sun]

due to the RTC in the GB core, it's better to play the gen2 there anyway

[worn delta]

One for MiSTer 2 when there is more headspace for features? 🙂

What does the PIF not being low level emulated mean in practice?

[chrome quest]

Thanks!

I don't really understand the mappers, but to whatever extent some might be missing, I think people have tested and gotten all TPak games to work

The only caveat I know of is Gen 2 Pokémon, where the absent RTC means you can't play in the GB Tower mode (so you use the GB core), and like a daily mystery gift. You can still do the important thing of transferring Pokémon and playing in Stadium 2 battles. Plus, you get around the other limitations if you use SNAC and a TPak

[worn delta]

You can see there what was tested back when, and what is in and missing mapper wise

[uncut gyro]

Thanks for re-summarizing this, it’s good to have a reference in one place that can help drive development of the next platform.

[chrome quest]

That's probably a little outdated, at least as far as the notes go, where all the Pokémon Gen 2 games will equally work, just have issues with specific modes

IIRC the mapper that was noted to be implemented at one point was not the one used by english Gen 2, but at that point they were working. So I never understood what part I was missing understanding what it means. Maybe more than one mapper is implemented?

[worn delta]

Different regions of the same Pokémon games had different mappers

MBC5 and some flavours of MBC3 are implemented for sure

MBC1 is not

HUC-1 and HUC-3 are not implemented, but those are not for Pokémon games

[lament escarp]

Those mappers are only for playing those games in the gb tower in stadium, right?

[worn delta]

No, you can use the Pokémon on the save files in Stadium

That's my memory anyway

Been a long time since this was added

[lament escarp]

The save files work 100%. My question was if those mappers are necessary for anything other than the gb tower, i.e. playing pokemon games in stadium through emulation.

[wanton sun]

as far as i know, only gen 2 in the gb tower has issues, otherwise there are none

this is btw by luck, because only a cheap mbc3 is implemented

they are close enough and the games/gb tower don't use crazy things to test the limits

[lament escarp]

Sadly the gb tower checks the rom too well in stadium, so it won't boot my romhack but it still imports the pokemon from the save file since that's unchanged. 😅

[wanton sun]

PIF would normally set up the RDRAM controller and handle timing to e.g. game pads. Could be there are some edge cases and slightly different timing. Overall the difference is rather small

Ares devs invested time to do a better HLE of the PIF last year, but even they didn't go for LLE

But if someone has fun doing a simple(?) 4 bit cpu, no one will complain for sure 🙂

[neon heron]

How different is the SM5 used for the PIF from the game n watch version?

ah, looks like the one implemented there is the 510, not the 5

[weary beacon]

the cartridge conversions will run, but they won’t save anything. the developers of the conversions have said they would like for the conversions to be depreciated and native support for DD images is superior

[tender pine]

I'll be honest. Right or wrong I'm more and more excited to see just what this Analogue 3D is capable of pulling off. If it can tick all the bullet points for £250 then I'll be in awe.

Don't get me wrong. Even if it does all this it still won't top for me what @wanton sun achieved on the DE10 via MiSTer.

I'm more curious just how far Analogue can push beyond what's already doing the rounds.

[green epoch]

first time with an analogue product?

[tender pine]

Nope. First was my Super NT and later the Picket. I'm very happy with both for different reasons.

Pocket - not Picket.

[green epoch]

they aren’t well known for going “beyond” anything (unless you count shipping prices)

I think anyone expecting the 3D to be anything more than a mostly compatible n64 with a decent upscaler is going to be disappointed.

[tender pine]

I dunno for £250 I think both products are relatively great value for the money.

[green epoch]

depends on what you value. but I think we can both agree that both are mostly compatible facsimiles of their parent system

so if that’s what you want out of the 3D, then you will be satisfied

[magic girder]

The availability of the clone boards has probably taken some of the shine off the Analogue N64’s pricing (can’t remember which came first)

[tender pine]

Sorry. What's this clone boards story?

[magic girder]

The availability of the MiSTER Pi and QMTech DE10 nano boards have made the entry price to the MiSTer ecosystem a bit lower

So when it was e.g. £250 for the 3D vs £400 for an “authentic” triple stack, I could see people weighing that up depending on how much they loved the N64

[tender pine]

Ah. Right. I'd mostly agree but only argue that's quite a different beast from the Analogue 3D. A much, much more plug n play dedicated solution.

[magic girder]

Sure. It’ll still move units

But I suspect a few might give it a second thought now the entry price is lower for the MiSTer

[spare meadow]

I already preordered an Analogue 3D hopping it will be compatible with the SummerCart 64 (64DD native compatibility) but my main N64 will be the Mister N64 Turbo Core.

[tender pine]

Also I'm still a bit cautious recommending the clone boards. Im still very sceptical how these will hold up over time in comparison with the DE10 nano.

[green epoch]

Oh i have one and two controllers preordered too. I make bad financial decisions and suffer from fomo: the perfect analogue customer

[tender pine]

The MiSTer turbo core is exceptional but the Analogue 3D has the potential to go that bit further in regards to ironing out performance in games which would benefit.

[green epoch]

but they won’t

or, at least, don’t hold your breath for it

there are games that are still incompatible with the pocket

[weary beacon]

i look forward to seeing what the 3D is capable of but i think some people with high expectations will be disappointed

[tidal zenith]

how so

[fiery locust]

I wouldn't be surprised if some users are expecting the 3D elements to be rendered at native 4K

Expecting software emulation-like graphics etc

[tidal zenith]

oh

can't fix stupid though

[fiery locust]

I'm not sure if Analogue have amended their marketing since I last saw it, but there was no mention of native resolution; just the 4K being flaunted

[quick light]

Exactly what happened to me with the mega sg. It was cheaper to go with that than a full mister set up.

But now thanks to Taki, I'm part of the mister gang.

[fiery locust]

N64 is one of the consoles that seems to disappoint people most when returning to original hardware after years of emulation

[quick light]

I still haven't played any N64 on my mister yet.

[fiery locust]

My N64 is in the attic.. and it's PAL. Not worth getting out. I played Cruis'n World on the N64 core and had a great time.

[quick light]

Pal, don't remind me

One of the things that annoy me when collecting retro consoles in my country.

Ended up buying an ntsc-j N64 RGB modded and some bootleg flash cart

[fiery locust]

Yeah, UK here too and all the modding/collecting is one of the things that pushed me to get a MiSTer.

I'm a northerner, can't be doing with all this spending

[quick light]

I ended up with the other fpga RetroUSB AVS for nes and Famicom. It was cheaper buying that and importing it than an hdmi/RGB modded nes with 50hz/60hz toggle

[fiery locust]

Yeah I was thinking of going for one of those solutions, then held off.

[quick light]

I think I have quite a few modded consoles somewhere in my house. From mega drives with region toggles to a Japanese sega Saturn I think? I seem to forget

Yeah my mister has replaced all of my consoles now. My N64 which is connected to my ossc just collects dust.

[fiery locust]

Yup, Japanese Saturn here and a region (and NTSC crystal) modded Megadrive. PS1 with XStation and DFO.

[spare meadow]

I have the Mega SG, Super NT, Mini v2 and the Pocket. They are really great but they are all at their boxes right now, except the Mega SG that I use to play Paprium (what a great game by the away).
My MiSTer replace them all. The N64 core delivers all the fun and quality that I need.
I will use the Analogue 3D + SummerCart 64 only for the native 64DD support.

[spare meadow]

Same thing here

[weary beacon]

my mister pretty much replaces everything from 5th gen and prior

[zinc dew]

Same

[weary beacon]

hell even more than that if you consider the gba core

[fiery locust]

Mine replaces my Super Famicom and PAL SNES. I was gonna get one of the Edge Enhancers once it was released but I realised I was spending stupid amounts of money. I still like playing my legit Mega Drive but it's nice to have the different audio options in the core as mine is a Mega Drive Model 2 with a triple bypass.

I have no nostalgia for stuff like the NES or PC Engine so it's nice to play them in this way without having to spend money on OG consoles, mods and flash carts

[weary beacon]

i love the audio options in the genesis core(s). ym2612 with the model 2 filter is my go-to

i still have a real pc engine but it barely gets any use thanks to the mister core. the extra sprites, composite palette, and audio boost options in the turbografx core are amazing

[magic girder]

The PC Engine core is amazing ❤️

[spare meadow]

My favorite cores are N64, PSX and SMS. Hope that someday SMS gets full SMS 2 support

[magic girder]

I didn’t release there was anything the SMS2 could do that the original couldn’t

[chrome quest]

The borders are a little off, but Kasher_CS is kindly looking into that.
Otherwise I don't think there is anything it can't do.... Minor differences I have noticed, like the core doesn't show CRAM dots, and light phaser accuracy is a little off, but I think the SMS2 compatibility is good

[spare meadow]

There is some games that core can’t run, like the korean game Super Boy I ( Super Mario clone)

[neat sierra]

I thought CRAM dots were a core option

[weary beacon]

they are in the genesis core at least

[cold pollen]

Does Knife Edge work with the core?

[tender pine]

Northerner and into Mister and the like? We should talk...

[iron dove]

this thread is full again, if theres any mods around for another purge

discord threads cannot handle the popularity of N64

[stark vale]

insert message so I don't get kicked from the thread here

[scenic vapor]

Lol, the first purge escapees

[mortal panther]

Why the insistence on continuing to use threads instead of channels for some of the most important topics on this server and the primary reason this server exists (MiSTer cores)?
They don't offer any benefit over dedicated channels for this purpose, hardly anyone likes them, and it's harder to do certain things like searching for content limited to that thread or finding important information/pinned comments.
Discord obviously does not intend for them to be used in this manner (having to purge users every week or two), otherwise they would have addressed the issues we constantly complain about long ago.

Not everyone who wants to stay up-to-date on certain topics wants to engage with others. They just want to lurk, read comments, and move on.

Threads make perfect sense for short-term conversations, like a #buy-sell-trade section... not this.

Out of all the topics on this server that still have dedicated channels (including ones that have no relation to MiSTer whatsoever), you've made the one thing most people come here for harder to access, search for, or remain connected to.

[rare relic]

Yea I don't get it either. Just have a channel for every core and be done with it

[zinc dew]

[zinc dew]

I dunno lol

I’m just paid to look pretty, not think.

[lament linden]

https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-stewie-griffin-gone-crazy-insane-letter-l-gif-17135412

[cold pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/side-eye-dog-suspicious-look-suspicious-doubt-dog-doubt-gif-23680990

[lament escarp]

Worth every penny.

[iron dove]

#help message
the inactive must pay for discord's failings

[zinc dew]

Ok ok fine, I’ll get off the couch and go to my pc, I was being lazy lol

[mortal panther]

There's Discord integration with PlayStation 5, so you don't have to get off the couch!
Mass-kicking people with a DualSense would be a boss move!

[zinc dew]

Something something, we thank the fallen for their sacrifice, something something, let the games begin!

IT IS DONE!

In today's sacrifice, rexswaggin made me laugh. Good name.

[mortal panther]

...and that's how you treat that user?
For shame.

[zinc dew]

Also I think people have been paying attention and there's a lot less names without photos lol.

[neat sierra]

Waiting for the day we get “Robby removed robby from the thread”

[zinc dew]

shit, I don't know how to do that

LOLOL

@twin barn come back, I'm sorry. I was just testing something

[neat sierra]

FIRED

[lament escarp]

Abuse of power!

[neat sierra]

I shouldn’t be able to drop this table but I’ll try just to make sure

[zinc dew]

I knew he wouldn't be mad at me if I did that lol

I can't kick myself though, I can't see my name in the list

[lament escarp]

That's not for you to decide!

[zinc dew]

but mods can kick other mods

so that option is always available!

[paper orchid]

I survived the prune yet again

[lament escarp]

Yes, the prune.

[paper orchid]

All so I can tell Robby that Densha's ending network service in Japan in March

[lament escarp]

Dang prunes!

[mortal panther]

"People who crave power shouldn't have it."
~ not Emperor Palpatine

[zinc dew]

I know it's so sad but I get it

OH ADFJADSJKFDSAKLFDSF

I FORGOT TO PLAY THE FREAKING ARCADE GAME ON MY TRIP

FUUUKSADKASDKFADSFKASD I AM SO MAD AT MYSELF

ASDFKSDAFKDLAFSMGFDASLMGK

[paper orchid]

oh nooooo

guess you need to buy a cab when they start leaving japan :^)

[lament escarp]

I miss birdy. 😭 He was a bro!

[zinc dew]

they had the english translated version at the Dave & Busters here in Dallas. I spent a lot of time on the machine lol.

It went away after a year. Where? Who knows!

The manager came over one day and asked me "why do I want to play a train game" and my response was "yeah you right, shits weird lol"

but then I explained it and she was like "still weird but now I get it"

loooool

[paper orchid]

Why do people play rhythm games

The eternal question

[vapid hawk]

it feels good to do things in time with music

thats as old as time

[mortal panther]

Why do people think they're 'playing' visual novels?
The mysteries are endless...

[drowsy lantern]

You do know that you can slow down the time considerably, yes?

It's funny you guys are talking about Majora's Mask because I'm also currently playing through that, for the second time since I bought it back when it launched. And I have to say I understand the criticism towards the repetition and tediousness of some aspects of the game. It really feels like Nintendo went "Okay, we're gonna make a whole lot less areas/dungeons now, so we're going to maximize and make sure you spend a whole lot of time in each one so that the game feels just as long." In OoT you beat each boss once, and that was it. In Majora's Mask you're gonna have to beat each boss multiple times. Once when you complete the dungeon, then obviously you're not going to have enough time to do every post-boss sidequest so go back to Day 1 and beat it again, and then some later side-quests require you to re-beat the bosses again in order to access the changed post-boss areas. "Creating bosses is demanding and expensive, so we're gonna make sure you have to beat them multiple times." And funnily enough this is also a philosophy they carried over into Tears of the Kingdom. Back to Majora, the nature of the 3-day cycle and the fact that you often won't have everytime at your disposal to solve some of the NPC schedules means at first you're often going to spend a lot of time investigating leads that will resolve in failure, and it's only later when you have the proper items/masks that you can conclude them, but that means you'll be wasting a lot of time on trial and error. It's tedious.

I find it a bit of a dick move that the Anju/Kafei quest is the most obvious/involved one right at the start of the game, yet you won't have the things you need to solve it until about 80% into the game.

[vapid hawk]

charitably, this is meant to make the world feel big and mysterious and generate lots of playground conversations

dark souls has some of that dna

[drowsy lantern]

True.

[vapid hawk]

MM would be a good game for game of the month, if it hasn't already been

just because having lots of people to talk to for hints is probably the ideal way to play it

[green epoch]

only 15 culled? That means that there still close to 85x more people here than there are good games on the system

https://tenor.com/xvDw.gif

[magic girder]

I vote for Majora’s Mask March. That way it gives me time to finish OoT

[vapid hawk]

who runs it? to game of the month thing

[neat sierra]

Facts

[magic girder]

@maiden lintel I think. We haven’t had a game since Sept, so maybe some notice might be good 😅

Although I didn’t play RE after voting for it

[drowsy lantern]

Oh and one more thing about Majora's Mask: Because you can only truly save your progress by playing the Song of Time and restarting the cycle, sometimes you'll be playing the game for a loooooooong while before you'll want to save and restart, especially when beating a dungeon and then wanting to do the post-dungeon side-quests. Like easily 2 hours straight with no saving. Better pray you don't get a power outage while playing this game.

[zinc dew]

The owl statue saving was just added for the 3DS remake, right?

[drowsy lantern]

No it was added in the US N64 version, but that just saves a snapshot of your current progress. When you load your owl save, that save is gone. So if you lose power after loading that save, any progress you made since Day 1 will be lost.

Though with MiSTer, that save isn't gone if you don't open the OSD, as it won't save the deletion of the owl save to SD card until you do.

[topaz otter]

doesnt it take place during the final day

also its really involved and theres a lot of waiting

[topaz otter]

why do people play mario, he just goes right until you fall in a hole

[topaz otter]

this is still 80 more games than are on the saturn

[mortal panther]

This is N64. He goes left now, too.
#Innovation
#NewImprovedMario

[topaz otter]

https://tenor.com/view/sick-tricks-with-wario-wario-drowns-gif-1832047849940242039

[green epoch]

I’m not sure this is the argument you think it is :p

[drowsy lantern]

It takes place over the course of the whole 3 days, but yes you can only solve it at the very end of Day 3, and only when you're about 80% done with the whole game, since you need items that you only obtain way later in the game.

[topaz otter]

you need all the masks right, been a while since I played it

[drowsy lantern]

Not all of them, but very specific ones, and one step of the quest takes place in Ikana village, which you can't reach until you complete the 3 first dungeons anyway.

[topaz otter]

its also the most emotional quest in the game, and its the real difference between ocarina and majora

you learn a lot about the people in the town in this quest

[vapid hawk]

its easier to beat the end boss with all the masks but not required iirc?

[topaz otter]

fierce deity mask makes the end boss trivial

[drowsy lantern]

It is! It's great. And the process of investigating and figuring out where people go and the discussions that you have along the way paint a really touching story, especially with everyone wondering about the end of the world, etc.

[topaz otter]

like when anjus grandma pretends to be senile

but its because anju can't cook and she doesn't want to eat it

[drowsy lantern]

And most good Saturn games are very short Arcade style affairs you're done with in an afternoon at best. Sega Rally has like what, 4 tracks? 3 cars? No saving? Even Wave Race 64 has like 4x more content and bang for your buck with the difficulty levels that change up the track layouts, trick mode, etc. Let alone juggernauts like Zelda, Banjo, etc. Turns out bringing short games made to extract quarters out of you to the home doesn't make for the most compelling experience...

[mossy vector]

I prefer my textured polygons to not fold or bunch up at the near clipping plane.

[mortal panther]

N64 wishes it had dithered transparencies!

[drowsy lantern]

Speaking of short Arcade-style affairs, I finished Pokémon Snap over the Holidays, for the first time. Excellent game for what it is, very fun, but dear god I pity anyone who paid full price to buy this game. There's only a weekend-rental's worth of content in there and I'm being generous.

[mossy vector]

That's probably true. Can anyone recall what it cost to print the Snap stickers at the rental place? I was a little too old for such an amusement.

[zinc dew]

@oblique nymph quick, get in here!

[oblique nymph]

Nice! Thanks

Is there anyway I could adjust deadzones on the n64 core or in mister settings? F-zero X with a ps4 controller is rough lol

[zinc dew]

uhhh, I don't think you can?

[chrome quest]

You can, but it would apply to all cores.
There's a bunch of formats for it, but if you grab the latest INI file you can see examples

You need the controller ID.
IIRC, you can get it to show up for the controller of interest by entering the button mapping from MiSTer main level

[zinc dew]

Ohhh that’s cool

[green epoch]

Couldn’t you use an MGL to load a specific controller config for just n64? Or is it because it’s a system level config, you can’t load those on demand?

[vapid moat]

Hey - trying to use the updater but for some reason it doesn't go past the V1.03.24.00-firmware. Is this intentional?

[nimble needle]

Here’s me when a new Saturn core arrives -

Woo new core

Copies to mister

Boot up Saturn

Plays Sega Rally

Plays Daytone USA (shitshow port)

Searches Web for hope of a fixed Daytona Mod

Finds nothing

Closes Saturn core

[neat sierra]

I’m here to help: https://racketboy.com/retro/sega-saturn-shmups-2d-shooters

[nimble needle]

Much appreciated thanks. Sadly I burnt out on shootemups after my c64 & arcade days

[vapid moat]

Anyway right now this update doesn't seem to do it for me on making the rumble work on MiSTer

[hushed nova]

re deadzones: like all ini entries, you can make it per-core (where cores also mean mgls)

so if you want n64 specific deadzones, you can do that

[vapid moat]

Managed to get the Rumble work on this core through X-Input Mode. Switch-mode looks to not work though unfortunately

@wanton sun MayFlash N64 Adapter looks to support rumble now with this test firmware

[vapid moat]

My firmware though is not fully updating so I'm not sure how it works-

So far Starfox 64 has a limited rumble - the collision the floor via sideways wings looks to register but rest not

[chrome quest]

This homebrew might help
https://n64squid.com/mind-present/
Allows you to vary rumble strength with analog stick movements

[vapid moat]

Tested this around with XInput, and yeah, rumble's not really reacting.

Updater looks to be bit wonky rn as its not updating for me in full and results come out like this

Sent support email to Mayflash, hope they get back (IDK if this @weary beacon guy is around much actively)

[topaz otter]

yeah but the advantage is that most of them were perfect arcade ports

since sega had the naomi hardware arcade board

no wait that was the dreamcast

[weak hill]

hi guys, my saffun controllers just arrived, is there a channel, or something about that control?¡

like, how to update firmware, where to get the firmware, etc, something like that?

[zinc dew]

You can always go to #controllers but I’m pretty sure there’s no firmware and no way to update it.

[weak hill]

it says i have no access to that chatroom

[zinc dew]

You need to give yourself the cycle accurate role but I fixed that for you.

[weak hill]

thanks man!

[weak hill]

so i got my controllers, i just need my mister pi to arrive in february and im good to go

[rare relic]

in the blissbox discord there was some talk about rumble in the n64 core, apparently only one of the rumble motors get fired off? in psx core both do

[vapid moat]

Through Mayflash adapter or all of adapters?

Because I'm trying to also get the Raphnet adapter so if it only fires on one motor, that'd be a shame

[rare relic]

this was blisster related with usb mode. despite being different they might both be affected with how rumble is done in the core with the one motor

interesting to quote ulao from the blissbox discord. so yea because they are similar/same they could be affected by the one motor instead of two in n64 core

"ulao — 6/01/2025 10:36 AM
Raphnet uses the same code for rumble as Bliss-Box, as a matter a fact, he used Bliss-Box's code ( and credited us )."

[vapid moat]

Aww noo

Maybe I should get SNAC then

@wanton sun Do you know about this?

[chrome quest]

Not sure how you mean. Using an original N64 controller with a rumble Pak? There is only one motor in it

[vapid moat]

Aaah - well false alarm then

I thought it used two

[chrome quest]

Bit different than some other rumbles. IIRC it varies intensity by the frequency of on/off signals. So it only has one strength, but using that homebrew I linked earlier for example, it can make the feel of quite a few levels between lowest and highest. Not sure how many, or if it is a broad analog response.

The Raphnet USB works perect on the core, either than or SNAC from experience feel perfect

[vapid hawk]

the n64 rumble is really cool sometimes, almost haptic

[upper pivot]

@zinc dew please don’t cull me again 😭😭😭

[candid panther]

I use snac for rumble paks, transfer paks etc. works just like on the real console. Even have my memory paks with old saves that work fine

Rumble Pak is rumbly

Brrrrr

[unique coral]

dc§542222222

[lament escarp]

Da hail does that even mean?

[unique coral]

Oops, pocket typing 🙂

[candid panther]

I thought it was an attempt at wording the rumble Pak sound

[zealous knot]

@zinc dew why do people get culled?

I've been playing solely on the turbo core for the past couple of weeks and haven't hit any issues. Loving it, thanks for all of the effort there! @wanton sun

[candid panther]

There's a maximum limit of users for these discussions on discord

so I guess when that limit is hit inactive users are purged

And mulched

Taken out back

Shot etc

[zealous knot]

This is the only discussion I currently follow so don't want to be part of the 'taken to the farm' lot!

[candid panther]

Brutal business

[neat sierra]

Jaimie believes in incorporating the systems developed by Temple Grandin for lowering the stress of the animals during slaughter

Unlike Robby who has a production farm mindset

[zinc dew]

You are safe, you have a profile icon.

I only go after people who are offline, have no profile icon, and have a funny or memorable name.

[broken creek]

You go after funny memorable names? "Get your creativity outta here!"

[zinc dew]

It’s what catches my eye basically lol

[broken creek]

This is FPGA: Serious business!

I hear ya. It ain't easy being the digital Grim Reaper. You're needed but feared.

[zinc dew]

I’d boot myself but I can’t lol

[broken creek]

Have birdy do it for you, he needs some retribution lol

[zinc dew]

LOL true

[broken creek]

I'm visiting a friend today that messaged me asking how he can play N64 on his Xbox or if it's possible. Little does he know he gonna get a visit from MiSTer today. After I show him the N64 core I'm going to demo the turbo core. It'll be a double barrel shotgun blast of 64 bit awesomeness.

[zinc dew]

Does he mean doing the whole n64 emulator app thing on the series consoles?

[broken creek]

Most people I show are impressed but ultimately balk at the price. "Aren't these boards like $50?" (They think it's a Pi)

[broken creek]

I don't know if he knows what he means.

He's not a computery guy. Probably heard something from his kid.

[zinc dew]

I did that for a bit last year, it was ok. N64 core way better of course, haha

[broken creek]

Yeah, I don't think he would mind emulation, but I can't see him setting up and maintaining it. Me and our other buddies have been trying to convince him for about 10 years to build a gaming PC but then it wouldn't be an Xbox. He is diehard Xbox. I guess he was a top Halo 2 player in college.

[lament linden]

A memorable name?

https://tenor.com/view/hiding-hide-work-cant-see-me-hiding-from-responsibility-gif-5786380

[broken creek]

Maybe, but I don't want to post it. I've never acutally Googled him

[kind mountain]

Xbox series is an emu monster. Not sure about the N64 but newer systems are amazing on it

[zinc dew]

I have the same friend but he’s die hard Sony fan lol

[zinc dew]

Yeah GameCube was super cool

I think that was the newest I did

Honestly that was the only reason I did emulation on it lol

[kind mountain]

My jtag 360 rrod’d so the only place I could try the leaked goldeneye remake was on the 360 emulator on the Series lol

Worked well

And the thing can emulate ps3 well too

[zinc dew]

I am emulation noob it seems lol

[onyx minnow]

i got into gamecube probably 2-3 years after the next generation came out, ended up buying tons of games as they were super cheap back then, like $5-$10 on ebay and stuff like that, every now and then someone would sell a big collection too

[rich warren]

GameCube was my first midnight launch system (was a HS sophomore). Played Super Monkey Ball well into the night. Still have my original collection too

Using emulators on Xbox still needs developer mode right?

[topaz otter]

doesn't the xbox have a native retroarch app

[broken creek]

Not sure. 360 was my last Xbox.

I recall MVG doing some videos demonstrating emulation on newer Xboxes but didn’t it have to be in dev mode disabling retail mode? Also, wasn’t dev mode later pulled? I’m out of the loop on the modern stuff.

[mellow raft]

Have any of you noticed that the N64 forum is the only one who has hit the maximum posts it can count?

[candid panther]

That's because it's the best console

[knotty zealot]

it's because of those damn bio hazard 2 rerunners posting pixel glitches

[kind mountain]

Yes. $20

Ms killed the retail mode emulators

And you can switch between dev and retail no problem, it just reboots in between

Really no big deal

That’s Gran Turismo 4 Spec II mod on PS2 running in 2560x1080 21:9 via an Xbox Series S at a solid 60fps in dev mode

[broken creek]

Been wondering if you could switch back and forth. That’s awesome. Also that PS2 emulation looks great. Does it hitch or stutter or is it good enough to replace PS2? Also can you use a Dual Sense on it?

[kind mountain]

It’s incredible smooth and can handle lots of upscaling

No dualsense I think without a converter

[solid cypress]

MVG made a video promoting a group that were taking free emulators and charging people a subscription to get them working in retail mode on Xbox, via an exploit that could be closed at any time. I think it did get closed and the group shut down. I stopped watching MVG videos after that.

[kind mountain]

To be fair I think there was a cost associated with the certificate to publish the app to retail mode

But I don’t remember ever paying anything for retail

Gladly paid the $20 to m$ for dev

[green epoch]

I almost grabbed a series S for emulation. But it still can do OG Xbox emulation. Once it does that, I’m in

[languid dune]

I see Robby had the urge to purge again! I lived!

[mossy vector]

Heavy is the crown. You'll be the last of us left.

[candid panther]

Has anyone else other than me tried the bio pulse sensor for biotetris?

Any way to have that implemented for anyone without the pulse meter and snac?

Basically, you plug it into the controller pak slot.the other end clips onto your fingertip.

If your pulse rate speeds up, the Tetris field speeds up

It's pretty fun if you have other people to distract you, or a girlfriend

Or boyfriend or whatever

[craggy kettle]

lol, I did not survive the purge. I finally decided to come update my cores in the new year and noticed the N64 subforum was gone

it's been so long I can't decide the best way to go about it. I think any update_all script I have is severely outdated 🤔

[vagrant ivy]

it wont be

update all self updates

[upper pivot]

There is homebrew on the new Xbox?

[green epoch]

in dev mode, yeah

[craggy kettle]

Do I still need the separate update_n64 script? (yeah, it's seriously been a long time since I updated things 😆)

[vagrant ivy]

no

[craggy kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/new-reveal-a-whole-new-world-shocked-surprised-awed-gif-17537714

[lament escarp]

Wait till you find out you don't need to patch conker and resi2 anymore.

Or that savefiles are shared between the gb and n64 core for seamless transfer pack emulation.

[deft tree]

its hilarious how poorly rolled out the 'forum' feature is

[zinc dew]

Saturn and N64 are the most popular.

[mellow raft]

.>

<.<

https://tenor.com/view/segata-sanshiro-karate-taekwando-gif-4880719

[turbid warren]

i believe the idea is that everyone had a PS1 so they get a mister to play the consoles they didn't have the chance to i.e. the N64 and the Saturn

[zinc dew]

Sorry the forum stuff isn’t workin great for everyone.

For what it’s worth I’m having a ball kicking people.

So at least one of us is having a good time. LOL

[green epoch]

You’re having a good time now. But what happens when there are 101 people you recognize in here?

Gonna have to make some hard decisions

[zinc dew]

Yeah today was tough, I think a lot of people have been paying attention to how I select em.

[magic girder]

Don’t you know I’m still standing better than I ever did?

[weary palm]

Oh yeah, that's how it works. A bundled button_aliases file wouldn't break anything, I think. If you don't have one you will get the default button names. dunno. I both like and dislike this solution. xD

[pallid moth]

how to set controller buttons for analog and dpad? When I try to define the buttons up, down, left and right, they only appear once, so I can only define analog directions.

[mortal panther]

Configure the analog stick with MiSTer's main controller mapping (before you launch the N64 core).

Complete the rest of the mapping with the N64 core.

[pallid moth]

Before lauching n64 core, only 'define joystick button' appears on main menu. And it asks for X, Y buttons etc. So I dont think it will solve this.

[mortal panther]

You have to proceed through all of the mapping prompts, skipping the ones that don't apply.

[zinc dew]

Well, Sorg was willing to listen to me and he’s going to think about it. So I’m hopeful there’s a good solution that can adhere to his expectations and clarifies it for new users. 🍻

[mortal panther]

You spoke to Sorg... directly??

[cold pollen]

So what's the suggested change?

[zinc dew]

Changing the text to holo foil

On the main menu

[cold pollen]

sometimes I don't think you even take me seriously in our relationship

[zinc dew]

lol I’m sorry

It’s for the initial directional inputs on the controller setup in the N64 core

People think it’s for the analogue when it’s not, it’s for the dpad

[magic girder]

I mean surely you figure it out pretty quickly? 😅

[zinc dew]

Nah, they come here and ask about it. I don’t blame ‘em.

[hushed nova]

clearly not

[magic girder]

A Darwinian approach to FPGA gaming. Those who can’t bind buttons are forever doomed to bad N64 software emulation

[mortal panther]

I mean, just 30 minutes ago...

[zinc dew]

They can only play Killer Instinct, Kirby, and Yosbi’s Island lol

I forgot what else uses dpad

[hushed nova]

well it's probably more confusing because if you move the analog stick when you map there it now counts for both 'analog stick' AND dpad

[zinc dew]

Yeah it registers double inputs

[hushed nova]

which is what prompted that 'I move when I aim in goldeneye' thing

[zinc dew]

Ohhhh yeah, how funny

[hushed nova]

(that said lol the controls in that game)

[mortal panther]

Yeah, games had weird controls back then. 😏

[magic girder]

There aren’t that many cores that use analogue sticks - wouldn’t it make sense to have those bindable from within the core rather than just in main? That’s at least consistent with buttons and D-pad (why are they special?)

[mortal panther]

That didn't age well... 😄

[magic girder]

I know that means those cores would have to be updated… but there are… 2 of them? Both by the same author? 😅

(Personally I don’t trust the automapping from main anyway, so I’ve always manually set it up for each core)

[cerulean elk]

That’s it I’m submitting a run next year and I’m insisting on MiSTer! Even though I don’t speedrun

[cold pollen]

maybe just better labelling?

[zinc dew]

Yeah, basically

[kind mountain]

Hey AGDQ is all up in my city this year

[cerulean elk]

Ooh nice

[topaz otter]

kicking people in the balls is more like it

[zinc dew]

yeah I’m kidding, I wish I didn’t have to do it

I just make it silly to entertain people

[lament escarp]

I just love mister and how it all connects. That pikachu will surf, wether it wants to or not.

[zealous knot]

How do you do that? Did you have to connect an actual GB into it or can you do it within mister somehow?

[lament escarp]

The gb save files are connected between the gb core and n64 core automatically. Just load the gb rom in the n64 core before you load stadium. I have a copy of the pokemon gb roms in the n64 games folder for that.

[candid panther]

It works with a real transfer Pak and snac too, but I didn't realise the N64 core had it built in now!

[lament escarp]

Still a bunch of work since you have to do all the cups and gym leaders so you can get to the second round and then you can teach the dumb mouse. 😅

It's no wonder there were so many rumors back in the day, some of them sound insane but are true!

[magic girder]

I’ve never played Pokemon stadium. Is it even worth playing if you’re just a single player?

(I assumed the main draw was being able to battle your friends in 3D)

[lament escarp]

For 10 minutes, sure. Just imagine it being the battle tower for gen1 from later entries. There are some neat prize pokemon you can get, like the other starters, fossil ect. And it's the only way to teach pikachu surf if you're interested in that.

[vapid hawk]

tbh the main draw is trasnferring your pokemon from your GB save and seeing them in 3d etc

[lament escarp]

Also the graphics are indistinguishable from the latest switch game, same resolution and smear and all!

[vapid hawk]

lol

it'd a cool way to kind of continue a pokemon GB playthrough, but i dont think it'd be much fun to just play it without importing your guys

[lament escarp]

You mean like on NSO?

[candid panther]

I got it at launch and I really only used it to play my Pokémon Gameboy games at x3 speed

Was more than worth it

[errant steppe]

Im considering trying the turbo core, is the general consensus is that its just as stable as the standard core? Zelda in 30fps sounds awesome

[broken creek]

Turbo core is my default. Haven't run into any issues.

[candid panther]

Oot in 30fps sounds awesome until sheik starts glitching in cutscenes, and you're forced to fight the lizafols in Dodongos Cavern in the lava as they leap into walls repeatedly, as the timings are all out on their movement

It's hacky as hell

Banjo Tooie has a 60fps patch by comparison that works perfectly on the turbo core (variable framerate, up to 60fps in smaller areas) as the gameplay and animation aren't tied to framerate like Zelda is

[errant steppe]

Aw noo😭

[vagrant ivy]

I for one run on the standard core, unless the standard cant run the game

[zinc dew]

Reminder that the Turbo core is completely unsupported (hence why it isn’t pulled down with update). Any bugs, incompatibilities, or missing features will not be addressed. You are on your own with it.

[wanton sun]

the enemies are much stronger than any available in the gen1 GB games, so if you like gen1, then this will give you some nice challenge.
It also has special cups that i like most, e.g. all your pokemon have to be level 15-20. Can be fun to find the strongest ones for lower levels

[iron wren]

It’s great in combination with shockslayer’s Crystal Clear, has full save / move set compatibility, legality checker in CC, lots of qol features that make leveling pokemon much less annoying (e.g. gym rematches at any of the 16 difficulty levels)

But if you don’t play pokemon for the battling, it’ll be a fun diversion for a few minutes. Maybe more if you find a mini game you like

[marble cargo]

Pokémon Stadium is harder for multiple reasons.

The trainers have Pokémon with actual DVs making them inherently stronger, overpowered moves like Hyper Beam and Wrap were nerfed so you can't cheese battles, and of course the computer sometimes blatantly cheats.

Round 2 in Pokémon Stadium in particular is when the game takes off the kid gloves and provides harder opponents, with higher stats and better moves, making it almost impossible to beat every challenge using the rental Pokémon.

[lament escarp]

To unlock round 2 you also need to beat pika and petit cup, right?

[marble cargo]

To unlock round 2, you need to beat every challenge (i.e. unlock the Mewtwo fight and beat it).

[zinc dew]

How do I unlock round 3 on this Pokemon game

[lament escarp]

So all cups on master ball and gym leader castle?

[marble cargo]

Every challenge in Stadium Mode and Gym Leader Castle. Other modes like Free Battle and Kids Club don't count.

[rapid prairie]

Anyone with a reflex adapt know if the n64 rumble pak works yet with the core or are there still updates needed in Mister main for this to work. Is snac the only way to use a rumble pak currently?

[zinc dew]

Good question,I’ll give it a shot later and let you know

[rapid prairie]

I can test it out too. Have the means just know it wasn’t supported due to xinput or something like that

[topaz otter]

You have to find mew under the truck in Vermillion city

[latent dagger]

Missing No. is best pokeman

[broken creek]

I̷̦̓ ̶̳̃ą̴̕ġ̵͔r̴̙̐e̸̡̚e̷͐. Easily the best ̝̐P̶͎̀ó̸̩k̸̺̚é̵mon.

[chrome quest]

Hilariously someone has made that real via Ruby/Sapphire "dlc" in the form of e-reader content. It's very cool

[willow linden]

I still have my original Pokemon Red cartridge and save file where I used the MissingNo. glitch a ton to get infinite master balls

[lament escarp]

I hate how missing no messes up your hall of fame. I maxed out the clock at 255h, but I trained every pokemon by hand, as intended. 😎

[rare relic]

Considering how well turbo core works, many people using it by default, I'd argue it should be in update_all. Maybe in the core menu for the turbo core, there could be some warning text somewhere?

[velvet nexus]

I'd like that.

[vagrant ivy]

I's argue it should not. No matter what warning you add people wont read it. Its an experimental core and so should only be used by people prepared for this. The standard core is closest to a real N64

[rare relic]

What issues would normal people have if they used turbo core? I'm not aware of any major game breaking bugs with the turbo core

[vagrant ivy]

its unknown what will happen thats why its flagged by its author as experimental

its best to stick to the standard core

The standard core works very well and behaves the closest to the N64.

[rare relic]

It's been out for months now, many people only use the turbo core.

If this is a hard no what about having the option in the update_all script to enable download of turbo cores?

[vagrant ivy]

I dont get to decide anything

but the Core Author has said his preferred core is the Standard one

one should respect that

[turbid warren]

pictured, what could happen if you use the turbo core

[rare relic]

A decision can be re-evaluated, it's nothing to do with respect. I'm just saying it works very well, many people only use it and haven't had major issues. If anything it helps more, eg multiplayer Mario tennis is underperforming on stock core compared to real hardware. But doesn't on turbo core. I'm just saying it would be good to re-evaluate, and if Robert still says no then I'll accept it

[vagrant ivy]

Its playing as it would on a N64

Turbo is a fantasy N64

[rare relic]

No it's not, it's slower because of TLB implementation limitations if I recall the convo correctly

[vagrant ivy]

Turbo cores are not downloaded as the default cores both for the PSX and N64

[rare relic]

I'm saying to have both normal and turbo core

Not to replace stock with turbo

[vagrant ivy]

And then welcome to hell on debugging. As people will say problem with N64 and fail to say which core

[rare relic]

I can understand during development, things have stabilised on the whole though

[vagrant ivy]

and yet people show up here every day stating Game X doesnt work

its normally them but it happens

The Turbo core can easily be installed if you want it

But as I say Its not my decision. I dont get any vote and you are welcome to disregard everything i say

[rare relic]

The discussion is good, if Robert reads this and gives it another thought that would be good

[topaz otter]

they'll get themselves in trouble twice as fast as the standard core

[green epoch]

if you want to run n64 games at incorrect speeds, you can throw a stone in any direction and hit an emulator

[topaz otter]

imagine this discord chat but the mister version of yahoo answers

[velvet nexus]

no kidding

[zinc dew]

It will not be.

It’s not really a discussion point, I’m sorry.

Unless you convince the project lead then I guess it is lol.

[fiery locust]

Sounds like it'd be a troubleshooting nightmare

[zinc dew]

People want things because they don’t have to work on it or provide endless support.

So it’s real easy to say “I think you should do this” when they don’t have to do anything.

The Turbo core is provided “as-is” and isn’t as well tested as the regular core. Additionally it behaves differently than the N64 so already that’s fundamentally opposed to the MiSTer project’s goals.

The Turbo core was done as a fun test to see how far the clock speeds could go, that’s it. We are fortunate enough that it was shared with the community and that we benefit from it.

[magic girder]

The fact that Robert also regularly updates it further shows how spoiled we are - but it’s a reinforcing cycle - every minor update now has people asking if there’ll be a new turbo core

[topaz otter]

what would be cool is if the regular core could detect the game thats running from a whitelist, and then do whatever the turbo core is doing for games that it works well on

and not do it for games that haven't been tested or cause problems, and it could do this by checking the checksum on the rom to make sure that its on the list

but I don't actually know if thats possible because I don't pretend to know how it works and also I'm dumb and eat crayons

[wanton sun]

Ok, here are my thoughts:

###clock speed/timing
The N64 core(no matter if stock or turbo) reaches timing closure for the CPU at ~80mhz. We need 93Mhz for normal speed, so even the stock core is slightly running out of spec, but it's so close it PROBABLY works on all DE10-Nano that are out.
The Turbo core runs the CPU at 120mhz, so it's already a 50% overclock compared to what the tools would allow. I could never be be sure this works stable on all DE10-Nano today and in the future.

###game speed
The normal core runs most games already slightly to fast. Not all, but most. This is due to the core having higher memory bandwidth, while RSP, FPU and TLB are slightly slower. The difference is typically small but in some special cases might be noticable. Using only the turbo core will run the whole system MUCH faster than original. While it feels better in many cases, this is not what a user would expect.

###deployment
I have zero control over what will be distributed. Both cores are open available on Github in the releases folder, so I'm absolutly fine with people distributing, downloading or using them.
There is only one rule: the github issue section does not allow game bugs that only happen on the turbo core. Use for your own risk and fun.

[weary beacon]

my philosophy has just been to use the turbo core by default, and if i run into any issues, i just switch to the normal core. i understand the risks and will accept the consequence of some games breaking at the cost of faster performance

[rare relic]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Robert. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but from what you said I don't see you being completely outright against having the turbo core also being included in the update_all script. I can appreciate the community shielding Robert from potential users that could overwhelm him with turbo specific issues, however I think it's unfair to completely dismiss the idea and not give it a go. If it becomes a big issue it can always be reverted

A middle ground idea is to have the update_all script have an option to Download Turbo Cores. It's off by default, but gives the flexibility for someone to enable it and have the turbo cores downloaded too and easily updatable

[neat sierra]

I don’t use the turbo core, but yeah you can just make a downloader custom db (like how it was distributed early days) to point at the turbo core no? (even without involving update_all)

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Downloader_MiSTer/blob/main/docs/custom-databases.md

[worn delta]

If Robert were to add the Turbo core to unstable nightlies then anyone who grabs those via script when they run update all would have the latest version of Turbo in the Unstable folder. That feels like a good solution here.

Assuming this is possible.

[vagrant ivy]

#1096015979055697940 message

in that he states why its not a good idea

that final point is the prime reason in my mind why it should never be done.

Core bugs on the Turbo core will be reported

[worn delta]

See no reason for it not to be unstable with the other unstable cores, it doesn't cause any issues elsewhere, people aren't logging bugs for unstable cores that get pulled down

[vagrant ivy]

yes they are

regulalry in the PSX channel people report turbo core issues

if you want it go to the effort of pulling it down yourself but dont give a loaded gun to people who may not know better

[worn delta]

You are being overly dramatic. Generally only people in the know grab unstable builds via script, and worst case scenario someone does log an issue it could be flagged by community, commented and deleted. We don't have a big problem with people logging issues on GitHub of unstable builds.

[vagrant ivy]

No I am being realistic

Its not hard to get the core yourself

if you give someone an option of Turbo or normal . Guess what people choose

[worn delta]

But easy to miss if the core gets updated, how many people are running an old version of the Turbo core?

I suspect a lot

[vagrant ivy]

thats their issue its not the supported core

the standard core is

if you go to a Turbo core its your issue to keep upto date

[worn delta]

Realistically it will wind up in update all at some point one way or another, that's inevitable

[vagrant ivy]

Well I dont get a say as I have stated many times. I just thyink its a poor decision for the reasons Robert stated

Its also amusing as hell that a we must have accuracy device and people want a turbo core

May as well just run a SW emulator like Ares and turbo it

Since you are never going to convince me its a good thing and you are never going to accept it isnt I will stop now

[hushed nova]

I mean, Robert can control if it ends up in the downloader db

[worn delta]

It will inevitably wind up in being grabbed by update all somehow when that gets more attention, it is down to how and where it gets put really. It has slipped through the net thus far

[vagrant ivy]

it hasnt slipped through at all its actively not been added

[hushed nova]

well being added as an update all option requires theypsilon action and he's mostly been quiet

[iron wren]

I would argue that no unstable core is supported if it’s categorized as unstable

[wanton sun]

unstable nightlies is automatic build and turbo core relies heavily on random routing timing. So the unstable nightly version of the turbo core would very likely make it's name full honor: it would be very unstable 😅

[hushed nova]

very unstable nightlies

[iron wren]

That sounds wonderfully chaotic 😂

[iron wren]

“Extra unstable” folder

[wanton sun]

if anyone wants to put the released turbo core to any update script, that is fine for me. I never use the update script myself and don't know how it works, so I cannot say what is the best way

[hushed nova]

I think anything you put in the main branch releases/ folder gets pushed to distribution

[neat sierra]

Part of the Cinemax: After Dark lineup

[civic wind]

Give the users control/options! turbo for all!

[zinc dew]

Not happening. Just download it manually.

EDIT: I’m sorry, I only mean as part of official distribution. Unofficial such as update_all is fine.

I will actively argue against it with the project lead.

EDIT: I’m sorry again, I meant only argue against it as part of the official distribution. Externally it’s fine and zero issues.

[green epoch]

Robby V Robert: Match of the Millenium

[zinc dew]

Whatever Robert and Sorg want I fully support.

[mortal panther]

I don't really see what the big deal is.

People who know about the turbo core and how/where to get it, there is no problem there. They will continue to do so. Business as usual.

People who don't know about it and have no issues with the standard core, no problem. To them, it performs extremely similarly to the real hardware. That's what they remember, so that's what they're happy with. They obviously don't need the option.

People who don't know about the turbo core but notice what they perceive to be 'issues' with the standard core will investigate and inquire about it, most likely here. It is then when someone here will explain to them that this is expected behavior, but if they want potentially better performance, there is a turbo core that might yield better results... with the caveat that it is completely unsupported. If it works better for them, great. If not, then they need to be politely told that their expectations are too high, and that they are most likely viewing their memories with the real console with rose-tinted glasses.

[zinc dew]

Ok I’ll stop.

[iron dove]

Kids these days will never appreciate the quick response of a naturally aspirated n64

[neat sierra]

Kids today want more than 8fps. The nerve 😉

If you aren’t suffering it isn’t N64. Bring the pain

[zinc dew]

Unofficial is fine, just not part of the official repo is all I care about.

I won’t argue anymore.

[neat sierra]

But yeah it’s easy to get for those worthy to complete the quest

[zinc dew]

PSX2X core needs to be given the same treatment

[neat sierra]

Even without a downloader db option

[iron dove]

Quest 64: turbo

[neat sierra]

First you must prove your worth by admitting stock N64 is significantly worse than Saturn

Only then can you Quest 64 to the unstable unsightlies and pickup your mutated N64 hobgoblin

[worldly flint]

In 1996-ish I traded in the N64 I got for Christmas for a Sega Saturn. The only video game trade-in that I never regretted.

[zinc dew]

Thank you, you are right

I just didn’t want people having the turbo core so I could lord my turbo core superiority over everyone.

But I have lost. So now I must lord my PSX2X core superiority over everyone.

[mortal panther]

Wait.. there's a turbo core for PSX too?!

[zinc dew]

SHIT

[mortal panther]

I must have it!

I ran update_all, but nothing happened...

[zinc dew]

Not happening. I will actively argue against it with the council of the cores.

lol

[twin barn]

i think adding it to unstable nightlies could work as an option, but yeah you probably run a design space explorer run of 20+ seeds and pick the best quality of fit for your releases right?

[twin barn]

https://github.com/birdybro/PSX2X_MiSTer - I updated the framework and made it a separate repo after people requested an update to it. Not sure if anyone has done a newer one.

it requires like 8 hours of my computer compiling seeds so i don't want to do it very often 😛

[mortal panther]

I know. I was joking. 😏

[twin barn]

ah okay, wasn't sure

some people are n64-onlyfans

wait

[mortal panther]

lol

Well, the console does have some sexy curves...

...and the controller seems to encourage 3-way play.

[green epoch]

I think this absolutely touches on the main thing here. We aren’t gatekeeping the turbo core. The fact that it’s not a part of update all creates an important barrier to entry.

Someone who seeks out and installs the turbo core has enough familiarity with the mister that they would understand that the turbo core is running off spec, and prone to more issues than the normal core.

If that core just shows up via the updater, people who don’t have that familiarity will have access to the core, and they may not understand what running that core may mean. They may get the impression that the n64 core is unstable or doesn’t run things properly.

As folks like Taki and QMTech make the Mister more accessible (and even more outwardly user friendly), more folks who aren’t tinkerers are going to come to Mister. It’s better to give them the intended experience and have them explore at whatever their comfort level dictates, rather than shove everything on them and expect them to figure it out

[twin barn]

We don't want it to become Retroarch.

[green epoch]

god no

[zinc dew]

yeah I don’t think I was clear about my perspective or did a good job explaining it, @worn delta and @twin barn were kind in explaining that to me

I just care about main mister repo

That’s it

[twin barn]

Robby you are my favorite ball of passion buddy.

[zinc dew]

Sorry about that

[green epoch]

You did a fine job. short and to the point

we are just backing you up

[zinc dew]

Also it’s kind of not my place lol

[mortal panther]

"Stop apologizing, Robby!"
"Okay, I'll stop. Sorry."

[zinc dew]

you people are too nice, sorry again

[worn delta]

Right, as a way to hopefully bring this to an amicable compromise for now, I have added the N64 Turbo core and the PSX2X core to the WIP database. What is this you ask? Well it is a Database I manually update that if you add a line to your .ini file it will grab a selection of WIP cores and put them in the Unstable folder you will see on the menu.

This is a power user DB for nerds, geeks, freaks and perverts who want to do things like test the latest CDi and Super Cassette Vision test builds, or try get a barely functioning Japanese PC to boot.

You can read more here:
https://discord.com/channels/647909397477195803/1096872957030174750

This sits outside of MiSTer official distro, and anyone jumping through these hoops to set it up should be smart enough not to log bugs for it in GitHub, so hopefully this is a happy enough compromise.

Note I have to manually update the files in the DB, so if a new N64 Turbo or PSX2X core drops then ping me so I know to update it.

OK, now we hopefully don't need to have this discussion ever again... 🙂

[zinc dew]

lol perverts?

[worn delta]

Anyone who tries to figure out how to get Puu's PC-98 core to run falls into one of those four categories, and I think we know which one...

Anyways, I jest, hopefully this solution keeps people happy enough. So anyone rocking up wanting N64 Turbo to download automatically, send them to the WIP database channel and make them do some reading and jump through the basic competancy hoops of updating an .ini file

[mortal panther]

Are you a deviant? [Yes/No]

[neon heron]

PS2X core?! I knew Robby was holding out on us.

[wanton sun]

yes, 80 runs unless some very good one appears early 😅

i could havre trimmed down the turbo core from 120 to 110mhz so it's easier to build, but what fun would that be?

[zinc dew]

Is that why you call it “80” huehuehue

Push it to 130mhz 👀

[wanton sun]

80 is the base clock(rsp, rdp,...), cpu runs at 1.5x base clock = 120

[zinc dew]

Yah sorry, was making a bad joke lol

[wanton sun]

I have a 135mhz turbo build sitting on my sdcard 😛

[zinc dew]

[wanton sun]

it crashes in some games, so I will not share it, but it runs starcraft fine for me....so why not?

[green epoch]

put it in update all and watch the world burn

[mortal panther]

Dev's Choice™️

[zinc dew]

Lol

[dry oak]

sharing is fun

[turbid warren]

April Fools joke: replace all the stable cores with cores that will crash constantly

[wanton sun]

I also have a slower build(cpu at 62.5mhz) to rule out timing closure issues. April 1st edition. "Don't worry, it's just how the n64 was back in 1998!"

[zinc dew]

would be funny if evertime you updated it would randomly pull from one of those builds and not tell the user lol

[mortal panther]

"Sorry, but the standard core is no longer supported either. Use at your own risk."

[wanton sun]

I should make a ps1 edition with 33mhz cpu and disabled data cache for the fans of weak gen5 hardware 😛

[mortal panther]

Savage...

[wanton sun]

I think such study could be very entertaining. Like:

• what if the N64 had the PS1 CPU?
• How would N64 games feel if they where running from CD
• What if PS1 had RDRAM/unified memory?
  With some technical details and examples how games work.
  Well, maybe I'm just weird 🙂

[zinc dew]

I mean, with the extra options you give us, I can pretend I’m playing PS1 on N64 hardware.

Smooth textures, double CPU, no dithering

[wanton sun]

That's all "upgrades", trying to make things better. Typically noone tries to make things worse just to prove how important one design really was for the games

[plush summit]

I like this idea of freaky deaky alternate reality cores

[marble cargo]

We already got an answer with how the N64 would handle CDs with the N64DD.

Granted there isn't a lot of software to reach that full potential, but we technically got a sampling of what could of been.

[wanton sun]

is there any game that exists on both, at least comparable?

[zinc dew]

F-Zero for 64DD and N64

[wanton sun]

just watched mario64 dd footage and the loading times are still somewhat acceptable

[plush summit]

Wasn't one of the reasons the DD got abandoned because the read/write was slower than a cart?

[zinc dew]

It got abandoned because no one wanted it

not being jokey, it bombed so badly

[little socket]

One hardware in the long line of failures becquse robby did nit buy them

[zinc dew]

I wasn’t given a chance!

[little socket]

Excuses

[marble cargo]

N64DD was always doomed to failure just for the simple fact expansion peripherals were a tough sell by that point.

[compact lark]

GB, GBC and GBA really did carry Nintendo financially through the N64 and Gamecube era

[marble cargo]

Specifically Pokémon.

Like it's not an exaggeration that Pokémon was why the Game Boy got a second wind in life in the late 90's.

[compact lark]

Pokemon birthed multiple industries and franchises tbh

[zinc dew]

Pokemon lived so that GameCube could die.

[plush summit]

Melee was carrying that generation on its back

[magic girder]

Absolutely insane how popular the GB/GBC was back in ~99-2000 over here because of Pokemon. Weird to think that the GB was already like 10 years old - and underpowered when it came out!

[worldly flint]

The Game Boy Color probably wouldn't have existed if not for Pokemon.

[compact lark]

Game Boy color exists because Nintendo caught wind about the development of the Wonderswan

[worldly flint]

The GBA was being developed but wasn't quite ready when Pokemon exploded, so the GBC was a low cost stopgap

[compact lark]

Yeah, because Bandai with the help of Gunpei Yokoi was developing the Wonderswan, so Nintendo hastily made the GBC to steal its thunder

[worldly flint]

Time between Game Boy and Game Boy Color: 9.5 years.
Time between Game Boy Color and Game Boy Advance: 2.5 years.

[mossy vector]

Around 1999, there was a handheld Arm based 3D beast that would have cut into N64 sales and Pokemon profit margins. Literally 'the world isn't ready for this yet'

To me, GBC was a sad joke, and too many developers got pulled into its mediocrity and away from wonder-swan etc. The only positive thing was battery life.

[zinc dew]

You wound me

[mortal panther]

Developers got pulled into the Game Boy market share. Simple as that.
You support what sells.

[green epoch]

also, no wonder swan in the us

[mossy vector]

Did you have a worm light? How did you deal with the reflective screen? I guess it would be less of an issue in sunny regions

[zinc dew]

Yeah I had a worm light lol

[green epoch]

everyone did. it was like the number 1 selling accessory

[zinc dew]

I upgraded to a ufo light for GBA

[compact lark]

GBC screen looks okay as long as there is enough light in the room. It looks best outside of course.

[topaz otter]

Thanks, this makes more sense now Robert. Is there a way to restrict the turbo core from running on anything but the official DE-10 Nano until the ones from other vendors are tested with it to make sure its stable? This would cut down on the number of people just running it on whatever different colored board they bought off aliexpress and then complaining that it doesn't work.

At least until these other boards can be tested for overclocking stability

[wanton sun]

it's not related to the board itself, rather to the individual silicon. If I buy two identical, that doesn't mean it works on both. Like if you buy two CPUs, they are not safe to both run stable at e.g. 20% overclock

Given how few complains there are, it seems relativly stable with a huge crowd now, but on the other hand i wasn't able to get any really stable versions at 130 or 135mhz, so we are definatly at the edge

[topaz otter]

I overclocked CPUs a long time, this makes sense thanks. It was always luck of the draw when you pass the safe threshold, even on identical CPUs

[wanton sun]

to be honest: in industrial environment where I usually work, even the normal n64 core would be a no go due to "slightly" missed timing. But I guess people here rather live with it than not having the core 😅

[topaz otter]

here's a better question, is there a way to use the turbo core but change the overclocking multiplier inside of the core. This way if someone finds that 50% locks up their DE-10 they can reduce it to say 20%.

[wanton sun]

not really, because if the clock rate is configurable, it would be even lower. I could make something in between, so 93.75(stock), 105(turbo low), 120(turbo high), but I guess it's not worth the effort

for a future fpga this should be much easier to add and also have higher rates as maximum

[zinc dew]

Yeh, excited for what new levels of accuracy reinforcement a new board brings.

I know that’s not exactly sexy or jaw dropping. But it is to me lol.

[quick light]

Which I think is a shame

Reminds me of the Famicom Disk System

[vapid hawk]

we could maybe make a build system for it like that ao486 one that does X builds and picks the best / least failingest?

[quick light]

I treat the N64 turbo core like I do with the PSX 2x core. I play my games on them cores first, and If there's issues I drop down to the proper core.

[zinc dew]

I think the idea behind it was interesting and Nintendo also tied online functionality to it with RandNet so they had a long tail vision for it. However, sales of the N64 in Japan and development delays with the hardware sealed its fate. A lot of high profile projects were slated to be exclusive on it and Nintendo was forced to redirect those to work on base hardware to have any chance at making profit. So it was left with no killer app and the few remaining games did a terrible job of demonstrating what the value of rewritable media had to the average consumer. The art programs were pretty cool but very limited in scope and were pretty out there creatively.

Nintendo had the right idea but the wrong execution. A hard drive like what the original Xbox featured was the right path forward.

[vapid hawk]

was nintendo expecting memory to get cheaper and it didn't?

[quick light]

I just like the idea of 'upgrading' your console. Same reason why I have a soft spot for Sega's tower of power. With all the hardware addons, they tried to keep the system going.

[zinc dew]

I personally like the idea of upgrading your console but as a developer I don’t lol.

[vapid hawk]

has there ever been a genuinly good console add-on though?

[quick light]

From what I can guess I think Nintendo went with the FDS mostly due to cheaper costs, as cartridge prices were expensive in comparison.

[quick light]

Gameboy player for the GameCube?

[zinc dew]

good as in quality or successful?

[quick light]

If we count that?

[worn delta]

Ram expansion for N64

[vapid hawk]

GBP doesn't really count since its not used by gamecube games. it is cool though

the ram expansion makes almost everything worse

[zinc dew]

Kinect sold really well for example but I wouldn’t call it good. Well the hardware was cool but I didn’t care for the software.

[worn delta]

DVC card for the CDi unlocked a lot as well

Struggling to think of any killer ones though

[zinc dew]

I guess Kinect is not an add on

More of an accessory

[vapid hawk]

kinect is more of a new controller i guess

[zinc dew]

the ram modules for Saturn?

[quick light]

I do kinda think the 32x and mega cd was more successful as hardware addons compared to the FDS and 64dd based on the fact they had worldwide releases. Unfortunately FDS and 64dd never left Japan.

[zinc dew]

Sega CD is cool

Oh wait the Turbo CD

[quick light]

But on that basis, I'm not sure if id class the Atari Jag cd player addon thingy as a success

[zinc dew]

an add on that became the main game media for that system

[vapid hawk]

Saturn ram modules do definitely help out some games thats fair

[quick light]

But I'm all for hardware addons.

What's stopping someone connecting one mister to another?

[zinc dew]

lol

[quick light]

Double the ram

Double the cores

[worn delta]

The Satellaview looks cool under my SFC when sitting on the shelf...

[zinc dew]

Ohhhhhhh take a photo

[vapid hawk]

the problem with sticking two misters together is the bus between them and synchronizing them

it was actually discussed semi-seriously at some point many years ago iirc

[quick light]

Id find it quite comical, if the upgrade from a de-10 nano, is 2 de-10 nano's via some hat.

[modest helm]

I'd say the FDS, Sega CD, and Kinect are probably the most successful add-ons. I consider the Kinect an add-on since it requires bespoke hardware and had a large library of games that were exclusive to it. Crazy how Kinect Adventures is the best selling 360 game lol

[vapid hawk]

the eye-toy was quite successful if we're counting kinect

[modest helm]

Yeah I suppose that counts too. Was the PlayStation Motion successful or a flop? I didn't own a PS3

I guess we could count PSVR as well

[zinc dew]

I don’t think it was but it was nowhere near levels of Kinect success

[vapid hawk]

i'm not sure about commercially but technically psmove was excellent

amazing way to control fps games

its kind of like what you wish the wii was like

like i was genuinly shocked sony didn't have move controls in every game after i'd played killzone3

[iron wren]

The new WideMiSTer, an unholy union of two mister stacks by way of a jumper hat connecting their gpio pins to combine their capabilities into one device…

[green epoch]

MiSTerSLI

[iron wren]

CrossMiSTer

MiSTfFire?

[green epoch]

I believe you mean XMiSTer

[marble cargo]

They say if you boot up the PS1 core, it becomes the fabled PS2 core.

[dense wagon]

just got around to updating my mister and did some N64 last night - updated the overclocked core to the latest one... how much faster (roughly) is that?

Its still amazing 😄 and i love the ability to do N64 😄

[iron wren]

Around 50% faster than the base core best case scenario iirc

[twin barn]

gosh dang, 80 runs is crazy. last time i did something like that i ran 200 builds of ao486, 100 of each with different fitter settings to demonstrate higher success rate with my settings lol

that was... running it on two computers over the weekend

[topaz otter]

For the N64? Rambus lied, look up their history on Wikipedia sometimes if you want a wild ride.

They tried to patent claim a lot of stuff that was open industry standard

rambus ram was expensive and had high latency, they convinced Nintendo somehow that since everyone was soon going to be moving to RAMBUS ram that the price was going to drop like a rock

sdram won when the industry adopted it

[vapid hawk]

nah i meant cart and 64DD cart memory

[delicate cove]

Im new here and fairly new to MiSTer also. I have all of my classic systems cores going but want to add the N64. I was told this was the place to go to for help.

[vapid hawk]

i know the rambus saga, they nearly killed intel too - insane

[zinc dew]

You should already have the N64 core. It’s part of the normal system updates.

[delicate cove]

Yeah I have that, but need to know what other files are needed and where they go.

[zinc dew]

The core has a readme which should answer everything for you.

Oh wait no it doesn’t lol

[delicate cove]

Sorry Im new to this and hate asking questions lol

[zinc dew]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_MiSTer/blob/main/README.md

[zinc dew]

Please don’t worry, ask everything you want

We are happy you’ve joined us and we want to help

[delicate cove]

Thank you!

[zinc dew]

Every core has a readme option. I think you bring up the core menu then push right? There should be a “Help” option.

But fundamentally you’ll need a bios and you put your games in the /media/fat/games/n64 folder

The bios also goes in that folder

The readme I linked above says what bios you’ll need

[delicate cove]

Okay I found that.

[zinc dew]

This script might make things easier with bios files - https://github.com/theypsilon/Update_All_MiSTer

it’s unofficial and not part of the mister repository

You add scripts to your /media/fat/scripts folder

[dense wagon]

Aye the update all script makes things sooooooo much easier

[delicate cove]

Thanks all! I will give it a shot.

[zealous knot]

I exclusively play on Turbo and love it 🙂

[zinc dew]

The Turbo core is pretty amazing. It’s a “use at your own risk” type core but it’s really stable. It’s just not guaranteed to always work or even work on your de10 considering how much it’s pushing the hardware.

Games like Zelda have their game time fixed at 20fps so the Turbo core won’t automatically address that.

Also as a heads-up, I specified game time because running the game faster than 20 will make animations go faster and cause issues. Outside of rom hacking that game is a fixed 20fps experience.

Well I think it minimizes slowdown.

[errant steppe]

I was hoping to try Ocarina of Time redux which has an optional 30fps hack however someone else posted it can get buggy

[delicate cove]

Okay so I try to load up my game back up rom and it loads but the screen stays black. I dont see an error message come up either.

[vagrant ivy]

you dont have the bios

[delicate cove]

I did the update all and thought that it installed the bios when it did that. I may have misunderstood that.

[vagrant ivy]

no update all will not do that unless you configure it to download bios

update all by default does not download any copyright material

[delicate cove]

okay

[vagrant ivy]

push up when you start update all to configure it

explore the options

exact instructions cannot be given due to server rules

[delicate cove]

Gotcha sorry

[vagrant ivy]

any decision you make is your own

[delicate cove]

I understand that. Just came here to the community looking for some help.

[drowsy lantern]

I had forgotten how awfully tedious and un-fun the last areas of Majora’s Mask are. Having to constantly switch forms and playing a song to place a dummy is at the polar opposite of fun. Go out the dungeon and reverse it: you have to do it all again. Really tests your patience to the limits.

[broken creek]

The more I hear about that game the less I want to play it.

[iron wren]

It’s a good game. Just not a good game

[fiery locust]

The atmosphere is what draws me in; though I do have an odd interest in doomsday scenarios so that might be related

[tidal zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/jackie-chan-meme-what-confused-huh-gif-5480485

[rich warren]

It's a unnerving melancholy nightmare game. I love it.

[marble cargo]

Honestly I think every Zelda has that one section that just sucks. Like an entire dungeon that has some terrible repetitive gimmick or whatever.

[tidal zenith]

like weapon durability in BOTW and TOTK

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[zinc dew]

Like all of wind waker!

lol I like wind waker just not the triforce hunting

[orchid mortar]

No one likes the trifocre hunt

[iron wren]

I liked it but I had a guide at that point

[mortal panther]

Precisely why I never liked the Final Fantasy Legend series on the Game Boy.

[rich warren]

Weapon durability is the best part! You feel like Jackie Chan grabbing random crap and throwing it or smashing it on enemies heads. Keeps the combat engaging so you don't use one sword for 100 hours.

[weak hill]

is it possible tu hack the analogue 3d, and use their fpga system to develop other cores?

and use its potential?

[weary beacon]

even if it was it wouldn't matter since it'll always be out of stock

[zinc dew]

Possible? Yes. Will it happen? No.

Unless they OpenFPGA it.

What could happen is that they release a “hack” under a different name which adds their previous closed source proprietary cores.

[twin barn]

it's next to impossible because the likelihood that someone would hack it is next to none

yeah they will probably "unofficially" (tee hee ) release their other cores, but they haven't announced openFPGA for it probably because they don't want to internally compete against their own products

[plush summit]

Theoretically, would it even be possible to try to crack it? I don't know how FPGA boards differ.

[cerulean elk]

They won’t

Look at their business model; stand alone consoles

Here’s what happens. Analogue sells 3D. Closed ecosystem. Maybe a firmware for rom loading

Then they do the same for PS1 and Saturn. We know the turbo duo FPGA was a test bed for cd rom consoles

Once Analogue has released stand alone consoles for all the major consoles you will see one of two things

1. they run more Mega SG / SNES , etc consoles with a bigger FPGA and 4K scaling

Or 2) you get the “open console” that’s a box with a big FPGA that runs all their cores

Because the reality is analogue should realize their business model comes with an expiration date and that date is when they’ve run out of hardware to recreate

But analogue won’t open shit until they’ve sold every stand alone product they can and if I was working there and in charge of the business model I’d say the same thing…nothing open until the bitter end

[zinc dew]

We did it guys, we found John Analogue, founder of Analogue

[cerulean elk]

Haha I’d be a lot richer that’s for sure

But my proper name is John Anal Lodge

[zinc dew]

Yeah but seriously that’s a great explanation

[plush summit]

Pretty sure they'll retool the 3D for the PSX/Saturn variants with a CD drive

[broken creek]

I hope the expiration date includes Naomi 2.

[cerulean elk]

Oof that would need a big pipe hitting FPGA

NAOMI 2 is a beast

[broken creek]

Still SH-4 and Power VR right?

[cerulean elk]

And more

[zinc dew]

Since the N64 is higher spec version of the same processor the PS1 uses, you think going from N64 to PS1 is easier?

[cerulean elk]

Elan T&Ls

[plush summit]

Isn't the analogue consoles just retooled variations anyways?

[broken creek]

Pfff what a cake walk

😉

[cerulean elk]

It’s in the same nuclear family so I’d presume some bits can be reused. MIPS is MIPS

I don’t know why analogue hasn’t made an FPGA Neo geo yet. Give me that

[tidal zenith]

doesn't the cart need like 200 pins

[cerulean elk]

A 4K Neo Geo AES. Ignore the fact I have a Neo Geo AES and a Tink 4K lol

[zinc dew]

Yeah, didn’t they get their start doing Neo Geo consoles?

[tidal zenith]

also, they'd have to use the mister core for it, probably.

[broken creek]

No one can afford the games lol

[cerulean elk]

Rehousings of OG boards

[plush summit]

They're riding the retro wave, N64 is the latest cycle

[tidal zenith]

yeah no one has nostalgia for neogeo at home because none of us could afford it.

everyone had an n64 though

[plush summit]

Yeah, the N64 core is pretty much their market research lol

[cerulean elk]

Hyper Neo Geo 64 confirmed!

[tidal zenith]

"casuals" as it were

[broken creek]

Wonder if they’d ever attempt Xbox with like a Vortex X86 processor and FPGA the nVidia bits. Would be cool to see a hybrid like that some day.

Them or someone else

[plush summit]

@cerulean elk no joke, if they could convince a Saudi prince or two, Analogue can totally get the Neo Geo license and bang out a console with digital games

[cerulean elk]

I know a Saudi prince. I’ll ask him

(True story. I sold him something)

Also I won’t ask him obviously lol