Nintendo 64

[lament escarp]

50 bucks a year decent though?

No, I will review mister though if you want me to.

[tender pine]

Personally I'd have still preferred Analogue to release a GBA Pocket. Much as I personally am an N64 fan boy I think a Analogue GBA variant of some sorts would have been far better received.

[zinc dew]

I’ve actually gone through that question and ultimately decided no because I have a family plan and the expansion pass is an additional $45 a year for me.

Aside from the Mario Kart 8 courses, no one in my family would benefit from the expansion pack options.

Oh and the octo expansion for splatoon

[tender pine]

MK8 is good n'all but it's not MK64 Amped Up.

[zinc dew]

MK64 Amped up is pretty incredible.

[tender pine]

Gotta be my 2nd favourite hack of sorts after Smash Remix.

[lament escarp]

Robby I admire your positivity but describing a product that even you yourself have to say just isn't worth the money as a "decent option" doesn't seem very authentic. Did gaming karen threaten to sue you if you speak ill of them? Did they demand to speak to the courts again?

[zinc dew]

I think if I didn’t have a family plan I would buy the expansion pass

I had the expansion pass for several years but none of my kids used it and while I did sparingly I don’t think it was worth the extra $45

Or rather paying $80 a year is a huge jump from $35 lol

[magic girder]

Good news, you don’t have to pay for it!

[magic girder]

But I agree. The relative value doesn’t seem there

It would almost have been better if $35 was for online play and $80 was for all of the emulation

[zinc dew]

Yeah, I think that would be enough value for me.

[magic girder]

But I guess they added the SNES/NES stuff earlier so they couldn’t really take it away

I still don’t know why they don’t sell the games individually. I doubt anyone is paying the $35 for the old games

[zinc dew]

But I mean it’s a good point, if I don’t personally use something it does seem inauthentic that I support it.

I think I just share two perspectives; the enthusiast in me who has every retro option available and recognizing the benefits it provides to casuals.

If I didn’t have the MiSTer I would likely be happy with it tbh.

[magic girder]

This is probably what clinches it

[topaz otter]

just talked to the CEO of KFC, he said they will continue until every Swede is as fat as the average american

I really really like this enclosure

[green epoch]

None of us outrank the Colonel

[turbid warren]

i'll be honest, i wouldn't hate getting an Analogue 64 but with the mister i don't feel like i need an analogue 64 ykwim?

[tender pine]

You don't. You really, really don't. Better spend that time and focus spending the word on MiSTer and core developers...

[lament linden]

https://tenor.com/view/this-pointing-finger-pointing-up-so-just-like-that-gif-23250443

I personally would rather fund mister community than analogue but thats me

[tender pine]

The thing I both love and hate about the Analogue 3D is how suddenly all these N64 'fans' are professing their love of said system.

[blissful wolf]

all these folks cracking open the analogue 3d, launching into their favourate childhood n64 and then first 3 minutes to realizing what 240p at 10-15 fps feels like it'll be like "ripping a huge fart" on a long road trip only to crap your pants kinda feeling

[tender pine]

I think both can and obviously do coexist, Analogue for that more home console like experience, but just remember the grass isn't always greener on the other side...

For too many people Analogue is just a flex.

[blissful wolf]

though I definitely expect analog to push a "turbo" core by default or something

[tender pine]

The real 'next gen' exciting thing outside of the MiSTer but still with N64 is the re/decompilation PC ports. That has proven fairly seismic.

[lament escarp]

I wish mister had an n64 core. Sadly it's impossible. 😭

[tender pine]

Maybe one working game by around Xmas...

[thorn quiver]

Why does Discord suck so badly? When I click my notification it brings me to a +/-100 message neighborhood around the time I was @ed

I can't find it, again.

[thorn quiver]

This means war (in Minecraft)

[viral portal]

It's not all about flex. I've got a buddy who just really likes the design of the console despite already owning a MiSTer. He doesn't have any cartridges so that's not really a debating factor for him specifically.

I have both a MiSTer and an original console enhanced with the N64Digital, so there's absolutely no reason for me to own one at all. I don't think it looks all that sleek, personally.

I also don't like what feels like artificial FOMO they've seemed to garner with their marketing and sales practices, so I vote against them all I can.

[tender pine]

Ok so in this particular case maybe it's not about 'flex' but just wait until next year when it's presumably in ppls hands and YouTube blows up. Flex central.

[viral portal]

Yeah, I can see that. But by that time they'll stop selling the console anyway 🙄

[lone geyser]

You can search with the mentions tag to find times you were pinged, but it's still frustrating that you'd have to at all

[thorn quiver]

Yeah

[wanton sun]

the low level accuracy can of course be better, because they can construct hardware for the sole purpose of this system. If i would have had this possibility, development time would have been shorter and accuracy would have been better as well. E.g. the JFG patch that is required on the mister core is only because of the memory we have. With non-shared DDR3 memory the game wouldn't crash without any change to the core.

[lament escarp]

So rather imperceptible stuff, huh?

[tender pine]

I was wondering @wanton sun how much 'better' or not exactly is the FPGA chip Analogue are professing to have in their N64 console compared with that of the one the DE10 utilises?

[wanton sun]

the speedgrade is not known, but my first comparison is between 40 and 80% faster compared to our cyclone 5. So probably it can do the full cpu with no TLB tricks and without extra efforts. Other parts are not critical anyway

[wanton sun]

i would assume that if you know where to look, you can find differences in minutes. For the casual player it could be hard. The core allows for a fps counter, but the original games do not and the 3D will not, so you must judge small differences from the pure view. In demo scenes you probably have better chances then by playing games

[magic girder]

I think it’s really remarkable how, to the average/casual gamer, the core plays and feels despite the need for the various tricks etc 🙂

[wanton sun]

In the 1080 intro I measured on average 1% higher fps than a real n64.
So ingame you will only notice if the fps drop below the soft limit of 30fps anyway and even then, feeling 1% more fps, so e.g. an average of 25fps vs 25.25fps is probably hard for anyone.
Maybe if it's right at the edge between dropping from 30 to 20

[magic girder]

Not bad for “maybe only a few games will work”, or whatever it was you originally said when you started out

[wanton sun]

Nontheless, i would be happy if i could have made this last step of accuracy as well, but i fear with opensource we will have to wait some years

[mossy vector]

To me it was more critical to have the RDP implemented at the gate level. I was so sick of the PJ64 plugin ecosystem.

[topaz otter]

I think that is the deciding factor

if you are like me and you have a whole plastic tub full of cartridges

then the analogue would make more sense

but there are way better cheaper ways than that thing

you got Mister, you got emulators which are pretty good and run on literally everything these days, you have the actual N64, you can get a cheap Wii and just homebrew it and play them that way

[turbid warren]

oddly, i think mister might be a better N64 emulator than the Wii

[topaz otter]

the wii is a software emulator

mister is a hardware emulator, thats why

[turbid warren]

cause it makes you hard when you get it working and all your classic games work

[topaz otter]

nintendo just had a custom emulator made and they inject the rom into it

but not all roms work

it hits the high points of the N64 though, which was all the games that people were actually going to pay money for

[kind solar]

https://tenor.com/view/lewd-trinity-seven-anime-sign-gif-7407062

[lament linden]

@random girder Not sure how to do it, But was going to modify my personal print of your case, and see about getting this 3D printed in full color if i can figure out how to turn it into a full color 3D print file. I work daily in Solidworks, but not super famililar with what it would take to turn into a full color 3d print file, especially in fusion. Any ideas?

[manic basin]

I think I have a good idea of what the NSO N64 emulator is clocked at...

[lament linden]

This is what I'd like it to look like, but unfortunately, A full color resin printed jewel isnt possible through JLCPCB due to how thin it is. So a sticker would have to be likely.

[turbid warren]

Analogue DD

[storm vessel]

It’s magnificent. If I were to get a custom case, I’d have such a hard time between this and an SFC + Satellaview combo case.

[random girder]

That looks awesome! Hmmm. There is some space behind the jewel. There aren’t any components there. Technically it could be made thicker.

[magic girder]

Interesting. I wonder why they did that. Trying to improve the perception of games because people often forget how low the frame rate could be back in the day?

[marble cargo]

Shit emulation.

That's not me making a joke by the way. The NSO N64 emulator has a slew of inaccuracies under the hood, which is why people keep finding all sorts of bugs with the games.

[wanton sun]

i would assume the emulator just has more power and runs the game at locked 30fps like the 80mhz core does in this demo mode

the gameplay speed will slow down at lower fps in these demo scenes. Ingame probably noone complains about Tooie running at 30fps instead of the slideshow it is otherwise

[plush summit]

Kaze is an odd fella, not sure why he's dodging the N64 core if he keeps pointing out Emulation problems for N64

[pine apex]

https://x.com/KazeEmanuar/status/1848389421755977950

Kaze Emanuar (@KazeEmanuar) on X

I will preorder, test and review the Analgoue to check if their marketing claims are accurate! Stay tuned

Twitter · Oct 21, 2024, 3:42 PM

[turbid warren]

[tries an early N64 mister core] [claims it's bad] [refuses to try new core] [continues to complain about emulation problems]

[zinc dew]

This dude is way off base lol - https://x.com/gamingaori/status/1848392144840507515

Aori (@GamingAori) on X

@KazeEmanuar @the_tuolomee It's mister fpga it's an opensource fpga project so you could get the mister pi board for example. But the n64 core still runs to fast so it's not that good

Twitter · Oct 21, 2024, 3:53 PM

people are biased about the weirdest shit lol

[green epoch]

I don't know who Kaze is, but that tweet is amusing

analogue rn

https://tenor.com/gZxsKpxnXkc.gif

[weary perch]

if there's no DAC support and it's like Analogue's older products, you will either have to have a some lag / image stuttering or play the whole console at a (slightly) incorrect rate (single buffer or zero delay)

[plush summit]

Someone asked him about it, he said he wasn't interested.

[turbid warren]

probably saw it was more than just [buy thing, plug it into tv] and went "nah i'm good"

[mellow raft]

I think I cleared up that tweet

see replies lol

He sourced where he got that info

I read it and he clearly didn't read it xD

[weary perch]

there is sort of a unique opportunity for Analogue's solution to be superior to MiSTer... if they have a faster FPGA without the limitations of the DE-10 nano (likely enough) and they've solved some of the remaining issues with other solutions (the MiSTer still has some issues unrelated to timing, such as Monster Truck Madness 64 text, Madden 2001 exploding polygons, Rayman 2 random crashes (Ruleset wasn't able to solve this one despite 2 patch attempts), Resident Evil 2 texture glitches, etc.)

but a commercial product is only going to live as long as they think it's profitable

and based on their track record, i think i'll keep swimming in the open source waters, myself

it'd be especially great if they've solved some new issues and went on to share that knowledge so that other solutions could benefit... here's hoping 😄

[plush summit]

I would've like to see the DD, but that's not on Analogue's scope

[weary perch]

plenty of games do in fact have a variety of timing issues. it's not always "runs faster", though. 4-player Mario Tennis and WWF No Mercy run slower than hardware on the non-turbo core. tons of attract modes run too fast on the vanilla core (Banjo-Tooie, Tonic Trouble, Fox College Sports '99)

[marble cargo]

I mean, the Nintendo 64 core does run too fast compared to original hardware. Specially the faster RAM means any games bound by the RAM will inherently run faster.

[vapid hawk]

yeah its really the ram that stung us on mister, presumably they've been able to give it whatever dedicated ram pools it needs

[weary perch]

the general rule of thumb seems to be that most games run a bit fast, but some TLB games run slower than expected

i think every single game that actually runs a bit slow is a TLB title (hmm, actually i'm not sure WWF No Mercy is TLB, would have to check)

this all makes sense based on what Robert had to do to make it work on the DE-10 nano

the core is inarguably still magnificent and probably still the very best non-hardware solution currently, but there's also room for improvement

[zinc dew]

I don’t own an Analog product but the TG16 launch disappointed me.

[plush summit]

I don't really care about speed too much on the core, 3D consoles will always have variances

[zinc dew]

But I think they fixed all those issues?

[plush summit]

I much prefer latency/visual gains over speed

[manic basin]

I think the demo mode is just fully unlocked. It has a frame pacing issue on og that the gameplay doesn't have. For fun I tried the 60fps patch and it smoothed out the attract demos to exactly 20fps, while the game ran at alternating 30/60 , usually 30. I don't know the details of the patch, but I'm guessing they had to fiddle with some of the stuff for physics and locked demo/cutscene to 20.. So that version has the slowest, but by far the most consistent demo and it looks like real gameplay versus even the released cart version's speedups.

[blissful wolf]

the john carmack brain demon of n64 architecture

[thorn quiver]

He knows the hardware pretty well from the software perspective. Maybe perhaps better than any contemporary dev.

Doesn't mean he's always right ofc

[green epoch]

It's nice to have hobbies I guess

[thorn quiver]

Of course.

That's a mighty broad southern accent btw. Yawl gaht sum haobbies

[plush summit]

Yeah, that's what Im getting off of him, he's pretty critical about Emulation, but I dont think he's well versed enough to tackle it

[wanton sun]

well, if your optimizations heavily depend on exact replication of e.g. memory bus speed and latency, only original hardware can fulfill it right now

the 3D can and will most likely be more accurate with all these timings, otherwise it would be very disappointing. You wouldn't construct a specialized hardware and then not use it.
In fact, timing for e.g. RAM and cartridge aren't that hard to fulfill for 99% of the cases. I have written testroms for it and did trim the core to be as close as it possibly can given the clock speed and shared ram constrains.

Being able to replicate all original timings was never the plan when i started and i made this very clear, very often. No one should feel betrayed.
For me, it's by far good enough to enjoy the games, but if for some it's not that is totally fair.
In the end it can always be used as a starting point when better hardware is available. It's mostly the RDRAM interface and timing that needs to be worked on. Maybe some DMA adjustments. Not tons of work

And of course some bugfixes, but i woulnd't be surprised if some of the remaining bugs are already solved with consistent timing

[steady basalt]

Your core is amazing!

[wanton sun]

thank you 🙂

[fossil umbra]

agreed! I've been searching the discord and never found an answer on this, so I was curious: is it a TPM issue that makes WWF No Mercy run at a weird 20 fps in the non-turbo core? I'm happy it plays just fine in Turbo but was curious on a technical level what's happening w/ that game

[wanton sun]

it wasn't researched at all, but very likely no TLB (TPM is something else, luckily the N64 doesn't have it)

things that are faster on the core: RAM bandwidth
Things that are slower on the core: TLB when many pages are used, RAM delay(random), some floating point operations (clock speed constraint of our FPGA)

[random girder]

@wanton sun Thank you!

[turbid warren]

rubs hands together with malicious intent watch me

[covert bough]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-burns-vingança-revenge-plano-os-simpsons-gif-22044850

[marble cargo]

Is that a challenge?

[random girder]

It is!

[topaz otter]

too bad I already downloaded one

in 1998

[topaz otter]

Nintendo took a "good enough" approach with their emulators

they had a certain list of games that they were targeting and some milestones that they wanted to hit as far as emulation performance, sound accuracy, etc...

they probably started with a list of top selling N64 games and the ones that moved the most units, and worked their way down from there. Obviously the developers would probably have loved to have done more work on it since nobody wants to leave something unfinished but its a commercial product tied to an online service

at the end of the day emulating older games as part of a service is kind of niche anyway, the product is the Switch, the emulated games are not the product, but they add value to the product

[turbid warren]

would you say

that the Nintendo Switch Online games

are games as a service

[trail swallow]

Yeah

Since if you cancel your NSO subscription, you lose the games

[desert moon]

Anyway to save things on any of the Mario Artist on the core?

[trail swallow]

That’s just how the cartridge-ized N64 DD games are. Some of them can’t save on real hardware. Or, I guess, the MiSTer core.

[desert moon]

unfortunate, is there anyway to load the Disc files on the mister or nothing of the sort?

[junior pine]

That's my experience with Analogue too. In the end, all of their products were abandoned with bugs. Exception is the Analogue Pocket because of OpenFPGA, but this new 3D thing doesn't support OpenFPGA, so it's a hard pass for me.

[tidal glade]

https://x.com/MarioBrothBlog/status/1740052845666455881

Supper Mario Broth (@MarioBrothBlog) on X

Throughout the different rereleases of Super Mario 64 over the years, Mario is being progressively consumed by his shadow. With each new engine the game runs on, his shadow rises up further from the ground and covers more of his feet.

Twitter · Dec 27, 2023, 4:51 PM

[neat sierra]

Wow the NSO feet he was really tromping around in the mud

What does the core look like? I don’t think I stared at Mario’s feet that long

tarantino enters the chat

[tender pine]

People say the NSO is good, relatively. I dunno. Accuracy aside, has anybody been able to do any conclusive lag measurements? I feel that so rarely if at all gets discussed in regards to NSO but is a massively important factor which can be the difference between choice games leaving a good or bad lasting impression.

[zinc dew]

Its not great, no. Especially when you couple it with the NSO N64 controller.

I get used to it though.

[vapid hawk]

its on porkchops dataset, 16ms iirc

[tropic cypress]

How good is that controller for Mister? do it worth the investment?

[zinc dew]

I think it is, the only issues are the input lag and incompatibilities with certain WiFi/Bluetooth combo adapters

Input lag isn’t that big of a problem imo

It’s noticeable for me but I get used to it

The incompatibilities with the WiFi/bluetooth combo adapters sucks though because it requires repairing every time you want to use it. I ended up just buying a third party clone controller since my adapter had the issue.

[green epoch]

I just plug mine in

and it's great when set up that way

[tropic cypress]

I have like 3 different bt dongles, should not be a big issue

[kind solar]

it works fine with the dongle i got from misterfpga.co.uk

i think it was just the combo adapters?

[tender pine]

Link?

[kind solar]

To what

[tender pine]

The dongle from misterfpga, silly.

[kind solar]

you aren't capable of copy pasting misterfpga.co.uk?

[manic basin]

For many games it's fine. It's a great way to easily play for a lot of people. But for some games it's bad. Racing games really suffer. F-Zero being the worst, in my experience. It doesn't recover from dropped frames well and makes the game extremely difficult to control, whereas it's buttery smooth on OG hardware/core. The upscale is awesome for some games as well. JFG looks amazing on NSO. But again, it has some control issues. The Zelda games all control great and apart from some minor (and in many cases, fixed) issues with graphics glitches and a tiny tiny timing difference on physics because of the OC (I assume), it's a great way to play. Though, to be completely honest, Decompile is leaps and bounds better for the games it supports. I know SOME comparisons are coming out soon because I did caps for them, but basically NSO is OK enough for a lot of people, but I'd still avoid it for certain games like racing. But a game like Sin and Punishment is awesome on the Switch. It's very hit or miss.

[tender pine]

Oh, Christ...

[lament escarp]

Sadly I lack Robbys positivity and say it sucks complete ass. The emulation is subpar and the price point is ridicules.

The best way to play n64 that isn't n64 and probably an a lot of use cases better than an n64 is a little known thing called mister. Though you could probably surpass nso quality with project 64 at this point.

[manic basin]

Ultimately, I have family members I will introduce to MiSTer/Pi/other options and I have family members with whom I don't want to deal with the headache. There's not enough missing for me to make any case to them...they just want to play, don't care about accuracy, don't care about filters or anything else...they just want to play the games with as little friction to entry as possible. Somehow, Nintendo still found ways to make things stupid (multiple apps, a separate app for MA content - which Perfect Dark only laughably and quaintly fits into, bad UI choices, minimal settings, etc), but remains the easiest recommend for friends and family who just do NOT care and who also have no interest in learning how to do anything but pick up and play a console. Considering that's the selling point of consoles, I can't argue it. NSO is just fine for that.

It stings way less if you are going in on a family plan with a bunch of pepole, too. It's $10/year at that point. That's nothing.

[zinc dew]

Great impressions dude, thank you

[zinc dew]

Join me in being positive!

[manic basin]

I do a killer Meatloaf, too.

[thorn quiver]

Impressions and cooking, what can't he do

[elfin depot]

Rob Liefeld has been working on Mario 64 ports? Who knew!

[manic basin]

Conversely, Dan Schneider is pissed

[tidal glade]

The shadow will cover us all

[manic basin]

https://tenor.com/view/onwaaard-zombie-orpheus-the-gamers-tghof-im-surprised-gif-17172589

The Shadow, you say.

[elfin depot]

I was thinking Quentin Tarantino but yea..

[manic basin]

They'd probably get along, all said...

[elfin depot]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-john-krasinski-jim-halpert-shiver-shivering-gif-4969600

[cunning cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/zombie-orpheus-onwaaard-the-gamers-rpg-ttrpg-gif-17217545

[blissful wolf]

I’ve been trying to finally learn 1.2 control style (goldeneye/perfectdark), using a DS3 controller without the sticks swapped and I feel like I’m giving myself a traumatic brain injury

I’ve been eyeballing either the saffun controller or the tribute64 as a dedicated n64 controller to replace the ds3 but I wonder if you need to have the dpad/stick grip to really utilize 1.2 control style

(Which tribute64 being based on the hori can’t do)

Like I see online real goldeneye sickos use this grip

Maybe I need to up my autism to try the “keyboard”

[trail swallow]

There is none. Best bet is to get a Summer Cart 64 for your N64, which has emulation of the DD hardware.

[tender pine]

Krikzz u mean?

[manic basin]

It's important when collecting shadows to get all 3 at once.

(We start filming 4 in a few months*...I'm so stoked!)

*barring any major issues/conflicts/armageddons.

[trail swallow]

No Everdrive at the moment natively supports DD games

Summer Cart 64 is something that just came out this year

[cerulean elk]

I’ll have videos soon

[mortal panther]

That's too much reading. I'm going to play Nintendo.

[zenith orchid]

In this case you can call it an adverb 😄

[mortal panther]

I find it hilarious that they thought kids would give a shit about that.
Don't they know that the more you tell children not to do something, the more they want to do it?
You'd think they'd understand their largest demographic a bit better. 😏

[zenith orchid]

You can play Nintendo, just don't play a Nintendo

[topaz otter]

my grandma still calls every game console a nintendo

she's 92 years old

[mortal panther]

"They said it's not called a Nintendo."
"You don't know anything about Nintendos, Mom!"

[paper orchid]

It's like how people photoshop images

instead of y'know, manipulating photos using Adobe Photoshop

[topaz otter]

well actually she says nintenduh, thats how she pronounces it

[paper orchid]

(there's a TM or a copyright in there somewhere but i'm not whole-assing this shitpost)

[zenith orchid]

I prefer to gimp my images 😄

[mortal panther]

One would think large corporations would be thrilled that their products are so popular and the de facto standard that they became part of mainstream vernacular.

[topaz otter]

well they lose their brand power when a name becomes a commodity

thats what happened to xerox

[mortal panther]

Yeah, that's true...

[topaz otter]

everytime someone scanned something they were xeroxing it

[mortal panther]

'Genericide', I believe it's called.

I think I'll Photoshop a meme of that in MS Paint.

[zinc dew]

I call my MiSTer the Nintendo

[turbid warren]

MiSTendo

[green epoch]

mister does what nintendon’t?

[turbid warren]

mister does what nintendon't runs Banjo Tooie at a stable frame rate

[trail swallow]

Can you use your Nintendo tapes with it?

[zinc dew]

No, what a shame

[zinc dew]

Anyone getting Xenoblade Chronicles Twitter?

[trail swallow]

Holy shit, this is how I found out

Personally a big fan of Xenoblade Chronicles X, so I’m excited.

[zinc dew]

They can change the name but it’s still Xenoblade Chronicles Twitter to me

[trail swallow]

Oh, I finally got the joke hah

[zinc dew]

[magic girder]

It plays Nintendo games and has blast processing

[covert bough]

I feel like calling it a Nintendo was more of a parents thing rather than the kids playing NES

Same parents who pronounce Mario Mare-ee-O

[tender pine]

I don't understand as I've played DD games my my Krikzz Everdrive...

[iron wren]

I think I'll call any popular game or game system in the future "a fortnite" just to mess with the youngins

[raw oriole]

And confuse the non-US English speakers

[trail swallow]

Those are fan hacks that convert the games into cartridge format

[tender pine]

Right. So to a layman such as myself what's going to be the differences if any between this said hack and running these games natively?

[zinc dew]

Hacks bypass hardware functions to enable device functionality despite lacking the necessary hardware capabilities for proper operation.

[tender pine]

I hear that but still for 99.9% of folk these impressive and skillful hacks will more than suffice. Better than suffice.

[zinc dew]

I concur. It is truly remarkable that 64DD games function at all. I am optimistic that the save file format of 64DD games will be modified to operate in a manner similar to a standard cartridge.

[worn delta]

Ideally one day we will get native 64DD support. The people who made the cart conversions of 64DD games regret it now, as they are in their own words broken, and have become a disincentive for people making emulators to properly support the format.

[blissful plaza]

Stabilize the N64DD filesystem format first.

[topaz otter]

Well I don't know how else they expected us to play them

[worn delta]

Emulators to support the disc dumps they have done

[drowsy lantern]

Heya! I’ve been away for a little while! (About a month) Any exciting news lately? (And also I’m just posting so I don’t end up kicked out 😂)

[covert bough]

You can play jet force Gemini and conker's bad fur day on the core

[drowsy lantern]

That was more than a month ago. But thanks 😉

[zinc dew]

Don’t think so

[pliant valve]

Well, there's been a lot of CD-I progress.

[drowsy lantern]

Okay thanks. 🥲

[severe rock]

no hacks needed anymore?

[green epoch]

nope. And any roms that needed a "patch" are patched in memory by mister main automagically

[tender pine]

Can anybody confirm or deny Shindou Mario 64 is the definitive version of that game on original hardware?

I'm talking not just because it has 'rumble' but patches and bugs.

Better most recent patch and less bugs.

[marble cargo]

Unless you care about certain glitches for speedrunning, it's basically the most polished version of the game.

[tender pine]

That's what I was hoping. Thanks.

[trail swallow]

I personally prefer the original, since Shindou makes some odd little changes, but really not enough to make it super inferior.

They changed the “So long-e Bowser” when you chuck him to “Bye-bye.” And when you climb up a tree, Mario always faces the camera for some reason.

[jolly turret]

I think they also changed out some of the sound effects and reduced the reverb effect. It definitely feels different, I prefer the original.

[tender pine]

I hear all that but if it's generally less bugs, glitches and the like...

[trail swallow]

Eh, glitches weren’t a big deal anyway

[tender pine]

Why then for example does anybody know why the change from 'so long Bowser' to 'bye bye'?

Must be some reason for the change. Small thing but I'd be interested.

[marble cargo]

Bowser is called "Koopa" in Japan, so in that context the "So long Bowser" line doesn't make sense.

[tender pine]

Ah. Ok. I love little things like this.

[topaz otter]

what bugs does it fix

only one I know of is mario changing colors under the waterfall by the castle, but thats not worth minting a new cartridge and revision number

[topaz otter]

i thought he was saying so long 🏳️‍🌈 bowser

[iron dove]

backwards long jump is prob the biggest one

[tender pine]

Apart from Mario 64 and Wave Race does anybody know what other games if any got the Shindou treatment?

[tender pine]

I know of Wave Race also getting the treatment and of course Lylat Wars/Star Fox, the one that kickstarted the movement.

[zinc dew]

That’s it

[tender pine]

The end lol.

[vocal storm]

Were there notable bugs to address in Wave Race’s initial release?

[thorn quiver]

What's shindou

[blissful plaza]

Vibration pak

[thorn quiver]

Oh! shindō pak taiō!

[blissful plaza]

振動

[thorn quiver]

I didn't realize they put out new versions of the games for it

[storm vessel]

Mario and Wave Race only IIRC

[zinc dew]

It’s genuinely a great addition for Wave Race imo

[blissful plaza]

I don't remember if the Fanta sponsoring was removed on that version.

Maybe later on the Virtual Console or even the NSO version.

[zinc dew]

I didn’t even know Fanta was a sponsor. Was that for the EU version?

[weary perch]

all the original versions have Fanta advertisements

the first version to remove them is the iQue version

WR64 Shindou doesnt really fix any known bugs, but it does add new features. it also unfortunately removes some easter eggs (the "big dolphin" thing doesn't work anymore... maybe you can't actually ride the dolphin at all in Shindou? would need to double-check that)

there are new announcer voice clips, the countdown samples sound slightly different, 2 of the songs are replaced with new ones, and one other tune has a new mix

it's effectively the definitive version outside of the removed easter eggs and the 2 songs that were swapped out for new ones

[zinc dew]

Damn you know your stuff

[weary perch]

oh yeah, the load times are also quicker in Shindou

[zinc dew]

Thank you!

I just go “controller shakes heee heee”

[weary perch]

not by much, but it makes a difference when speedrunning... or it used to, before we switched to In-Game Time as the ranking criteria for full-game runs

the most important difference between vanilla and shindou for WR64 is the latter implements Ghosts (depicted as a dolphin, which is an inspired decision) representing your best time

they supposedly wanted to add it but didn't have time, so when they got the chance to put out a new version, they went and finished the feature

makes a big difference if you are trying to figure out how to go fast

for Mario 64 i'd actually just take the vanilla game

i don't like the changes they made, and the rumble is pretty damn pointless

[zinc dew]

I am a simple man that enjoys the rumbling

For about 15 minutes until I get acclimated and forget it’s there

[worn delta]

Has anyone made a patch that adds in the missing features to make the ultimate version?

[tender pine]

I think the takeaway is neither is a compromised or poorer version. Each has relatively minor changes. Play either and you will still walk away grinning from ear to ear.

[topaz otter]

Sounds like you were playing it at Michael Jackson's house

[topaz otter]

If you want a platformer with rumble just play banjo

It's the same game as mario

The beak bust is the same as the butt stomp

And unlike shindou edition banjo is on english

[worn delta]

We were talking about Wave Race...

[topaz otter]

mario isn't in wave race?

are we playing the same cartridge

[thorn quiver]

Are you thinking of sunshine

[marble cargo]

That's an actual hack by the way

https://n64squid.com/homebrew/roms/super-mario-sunshine-64/

[magic girder]

Probably doesn’t run on the MiSTer since a lot of Kaze’s hacks don’t 😔

[worn delta]

Do they run on real hardware?

[magic girder]

Some apparently do, but I don’t have a real N64 to confirm

(But I think it’s also version dependent for some of the patches, so you need to be careful that you use the right version if you want to run on real hardware)

[willow linden]

It's been months, but I was able to play Super Mario Star Road hack on mister

the only time it froze on me is right at the start there's a little house with invisible walls that would crash it

but as long as i just avoid it i was able to enter a few worlds and get stars

[magic girder]

I wasn’t able to, but it depends which version you use (#1096015979055697940 message)

[willow linden]

didn't get too far though, got distracted with other games and haven't tried again since

i can't remember if i made any version choice or if i just downloaded whatever patch was on romhacking

i was definitely using turbo core tho

[magic girder]

I think there’s a “console compatible” version out there, but the standard one doesn’t work afaik

[willow linden]

yes, i do remember researching that much and got one that was said to work on console

[magic girder]

https://mario64hacks.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Mario_Star_Road

“A console-compatible version of Super Mario Star Road has been released, allowing it to be played on the original Nintendo 64 hardware.”

[willow linden]

that's right

[magic girder]

The version that’s floating around on that site that’s romantic about an optical disc format doesn’t work 🙂

[willow linden]

lol, yeah i patched it myself after finding out there was a console fix out there

[magic girder]

Nice 🙂

I’ll update my post 🙂

[willow linden]

chances are there's more places where it freezes, or maybe all the core fixes up to today made it better? i'll have to try again

[magic girder]

Just updated my post to link to your comment about a potential crash 🙂

Thanks!

[willow linden]

😄

[magic girder]

Maybe I should put the info in a spreadsheet or something 😅

[willow linden]

just tried again and got the same crash (super mario star road), but all things considered there's still lots of fun to be had there

just don't go down to the right of the starting gazebo. jumping on top of the invisible house with the bunny in it is the trigger

[zinc dew]

HAHA THE RECKONING COMES

ok that's 10 people

new people can join

Also, if I kicked anyone and you're an active lurker/commenter here please reach out and my sincerest apologies.

[lament escarp]

Wow. Robby the Slayer.

Guess I'll behave myself or I'll be next.

[mellow raft]

How would they see you write this

[lament escarp]

They watch us from heaven now.

[molten remnant]

Always reminds me of Ashman

[thorn quiver]

Robby used the super shotgun

[lament escarp]

It's so quiet since Robby removed the undesirables.

[river bison]

Very active lurker here, no offence taken 😉

[zinc dew]

I believe they can still see the post, just not comment.

[hollow rune]

We need to make some noise

[lament escarp]

Aidyn chronicles is a better game than quest 64

Superman did nothing wrong.

[rich warren]

The Magical Nitro section in Castlevania on the N64 is good!

[lament escarp]

Wow I was just trying to get a reaction but you went too far.

[chrome quest]

For my part I just got the N64 noisemaker, aka the VRU. Time to start chatting with my pal Pikachu

[marble cargo]

Going to throw every slur at Pikachu because he can't pick up the damn mushroom.

[lament escarp]

Between snap, stadium and red&blue gen1 seems almost ridiculously good in hindsight. Not to mention pinball and tcg as spinoffs.

[chrome quest]

I did test the microphone on the PC and it really is remarkably awful. Might need to buy a cheap one to improve things.

And/or get the toddlers high pitched voice to help tell Pikachu fun things like "SEGA".

[chrome quest]

Gen 1 game completion is an interesting one for that too, if you play Japanese games just to try and beat OG Japanese only Stadium

[lament escarp]

Japanese stadium1 really seems like a prototype. Didn't it only have half the pokemon or something?

[chrome quest]

Yeah. Something like only those Pokémon that had been used by Japanese players in some initial tournament I think

[cold pollen]

Good news, everyone! I managed to get the MiSTer 64 shirt design on my Redbubble. There's stickers and magnets and other stuff too if you scroll down.

https://www.redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/MiSTer-FPGA-64-by-DiniertoDesigns/166025321.TR8D9?asc=u

[eternal ravine]

We need Trucker hats

[cerulean elk]

vs NSO part 1 is up on #share-media

dueling Banjos

[kind solar]

i wonder if he'd sign my de-10 nano

[thorn quiver]

Who

[kind solar]

pierce brosnan

he's old now

[thorn quiver]

Oh on the right

[mortal panther]

That white-haired guy just scribbled all over your game boxes. I'd be pissed!

[deft matrix]

its okay, they're only pal copies

[mortal panther]

Oh! Whew!

[kind solar]

imagine if he scoffed at them "what is this the PAL version?" and threw them across the street

[chrome quest]

He would never! Good Irish man he is, I'm sure he remembers his PAL past fondly, where 7 frames per second was a gift from the divine!

[calm anvil]

I survived the purge

[green epoch]

so far

[cold pollen]

I think they have "dad hats" or something lol

[topaz otter]

one day I'm going to get him to sign my copy of goldeneye

getting george lucas to sign my copy of rogue squadron is going to be harder though

[elfin depot]

Could be worse

[thorn quiver]

Thank you so much mister carmack

[storm vessel]

I thought that was Romero from the long hair then again I don’t really know what the Doom team looks like

[thorn quiver]

It is Romero

Carmack looks like a stereotypical nerd

[deft matrix]

oh yeah?

[compact depot]

They seez me rolling… they hating

[thorn quiver]

Look at him, he's clearly thinking about volumetric light fields and doing shadow casting right

[covert bough]

Wait the bed sheets go hard 🔥

[cold pollen]

I always laugh at the shower curtains and the skirt for every design lol

[mortal panther]

queue "White and Nerdy" video...

[thorn quiver]

He be sprayin K-LOCs

[green epoch]

Black controller is up on Amazon https://a.co/d/9k57jMF

Sorry for the obfuscated link. I’m on my phone and that’s what the app generated. I promise I’m not hiding a referral code in there

[zinc dew]

Looks nice

[mortal panther]

Look how thick that shaft is!

[thorn quiver]

Yes but how is the latency

[green epoch]

Where do I put my mouth

[thorn quiver]

Around a bar of soap young man

[tender pine]

N64 controller in name only. I'll wait obviously to see how it feels/reacts to N64 specific games but im utterly interested and uninspired looking at another 8bitdo controller of this moulding.

Not producing the classic 3 prong design is a big miss for me.

But, arguably more importantly, it all boils down to the stick/gate and how it mimicks the OEM, or not. Few if any have produced good results outside of Nintendo.

[covert bough]

thanks, been checking for this, just copped

i feel like between that and nso im good, latency be damned

[topaz otter]

Night terrors better take a hike when you sleep in the safety of mister sheets

Blessed by the mister pope

[karmic sequoia]

can't believe it's real.......

[green epoch]

Excited for the limited edition glow on the dark one

[karmic sequoia]

i linked this back to another chat i'm in and five people immediately placed a preorder lol

[blissful wolf]

the fact they launched without a transparent colour option disgusts me

[vapid hawk]

i'm suspicious of those Z triggers still

they look potentially analog

[manic thicket]

Does this automatically output 480p?

Nvm

[manic thicket]

Anyone have issues getting rumble to work with a wireless tribute 64 v2 controller?

[manic thicket]

Got it working. Looks like it needs to be in Xinput mode.

[zinc dew]

Looks super good!

[tender pine]

its actually - if u cant tell - the pc port. im as big a n64 fan as is possible but this even in the face of Roberts wildly amazing core my prefered way of playing said game.

actually im more looking forward to more of these pc ports and recompilation efforts than i am the Analouge 3D.

i think in the perhaps not too distant future these will be the definitive way to play n64.

[junior pine]

Same here! MiSTer core and PC ports are way more interesting than closed/dead products

[tender pine]

Here here.

[manic thicket]

That tribute 64 wireless controller works great. I'll have to compare it with the Analogue one when that comes out.

[untold dragon]

How are transfer paks supposed to work? I'm playing Pokemon Yellow through the Mister and want to use my save in Pokemon Stadium. Trying to load the .gb file through the OSD does allow the game to see a game in the transfer pak, but no save is found. I also saw this save utility (https://github.com/mysterypaint/MiSTer-N64-Save-Utility), but it's not clear how I'm supposed to use it. Are these the steps? 1) inject save 2) overwrite N64 save with new save 3) load game with transfer pak and .GB file loaded

[chrome quest]

Sounds a little odd as it generally works automatically.
Can you boot the Gameboy core, select Yellow ROM, and see the save?

Once the Gameboy core can see the save, the N64 will pull in that data, no modification necessary.

[lament escarp]

The roms in the gb games folder and n64 games folder need to have the same naming

[chrome quest]

That's a good tip too. I guess maybe people do put GB games in the N64 folder for convenience. I always navigate out to the GB folder

[mortal panther]

Looks ultra good!

[zinc dew]

Reminder that when doing controller testing so the analog stick range, you can’t use the MiSTer core because it will automatically clamp all values to match accurate N64 stick ranges.

You’ll need to verify stick accuracy via software emulators or using an Everdrive on a real console.

[magic girder]

So what you’re saying is that MiSTer is less accurate?

[lament escarp]

Just use the input test core that comes with update all in the other folder

[vapid hawk]

does that do sticks now?

[lament escarp]

Set it to analog and there you go

[vapid hawk]

neat

[lament escarp]

Always did afaik

No need for everdrives. Mister shall remain a sovereign nation independent of all else!

[magic girder]

#notacult

[untold dragon]

I figured out the issue. I've been playing Yellow using the GBC core. The ROM is under the GAMEBOY folder but the saves are under the GBC folder. Copying the save to the GAMEBOY folder fixed everything. Is there any reason to use the GB core at all if you can play all the games on the GBC?

[kind solar]

Might want to use different filters for gbc

[chrome quest]

Glad you figured it out. It's a interesting one to consider how best to implement, they way the N64 core and MiSTer main were updated to support the TPaks is amazing! Given the way you could have some other GAMEBOY custom folder for any reason, it looking for the saves in the primary "GAMEBOY" folder does seem to make the most sense. At the same time, allowing alternate saves across the folders for the GAMEBOY COLOR saves, is probably useful to some people? At least, that would not be an N64 change at any rate! I didn't know the GB/GBC core split saves to different locations before

[vapid moat]

They do, yeah - I kinda keep GBC and GB-roms + saves separated on their cores for this reason

[trail swallow]

I’m super hyped for Render96 to get finished

[zinc dew]

Yeah, sorry this is a bit confusing.

The simplest way to explain it is there’s just one GameBoy core. The GBC one you use is just some smart shortcut trickery that says “use the game boy core but give it a new name”. This is so a MiSTer user can have different video/audio/general settings so they can get GBC games working how they want without impacting how their GameBoy games are setup.

[mellow raft]

Hacks

[untold dragon]

Thanks for the explanation!

[zinc dew]

My pleasure. If you have any other questions always feel free to reach out!

[tender pine]

Just thinking today whilst we often hear the term 'impossible' port' for Switch that maybe N64 was the true pioneer of that term, 700mb CD sized games often having to fit on 32mb size cartridges. RE2 still the benchmark.

[quick light]

I find the RE2 N64 port just amazing. How they managed to fit it all onto 1 cartridge.

[lament escarp]

The cartridge has 2 psx discs inside.

[tender pine]

Agreed. If I remember right the only compromise as such is bittier fmvs but when you consider the additionals added it really is I'd argue the definitive version of RE2.

[green epoch]

we don't talk about RE2 here

the memories are.......too painful

[tender pine]

Ah. Sorry.

[waxen bear]

Is Sept 28 the newest N64 build? Haven't been following too closely for a while and I don't see anything pinned or in Unstable. just wanted to check.

[green epoch]

yup

[quick light]

Well, there is another difference, they reused one of the cutscenes audio, for a slightly different cutscene in the other scenario (Claire/Ada)

[green epoch]

yeah, they did everything they could to squeeze it onto a cartridge. if nothing else, it's an amazing feat of engineering

[tender pine]

I don't like to keep banging on about one game particularly when so many amazing games litter the N64's library - a lot of them incredible feats of development all on relatively modest cartridges - but RE2 really does feel the original 'impossible port'.

[vagrant ivy]

but still better on the PS1

might be technically brilliant but still worse on the N64

[green epoch]

https://tenor.com/8a9w.gif

[thorn quiver]

Coulda shoulda woulda

[trail swallow]

Best version is the Japanese PC port with fan mods

[tender pine]

How come, exactly? I'd argue not only it looks better/sharper on N64 it doesn't have all that PS1 texture warping. Also - and somebody can put me right - but it feels to run better. A lot more stable.

[vagrant ivy]

I run it on Duck Station in 4k with Texture correction

[quick light]

https://youtu.be/TQGlB1LITGA

Id highly recommend the section where he talks about the N64 port. Id say the PSX port is better (but no randomizer)

[tender pine]

So you saying we would have been better as N64 owners not getting an excellent port of RE2 a very, very good game?

[quick light]

But for me, the best way to play is the old source next pc version with the classic rebirth patches. (Then if you want, can install seamless hd project for better textures and Biorand for Randomizer fun)

[tender pine]

I play it on mister via Roberts miracle core and enjoy every moment.

[vagrant ivy]

Duckstation spoiled me

I have a massively powerful PC

and the giltter seduced me

[tender pine]

I hope all that combined fills the void.

[vagrant ivy]

I never owned a PSX or N64 so have no attachment to them

Amiga on the other hand I do

[cunning cradle]

DF did a great comparison as well:

https://youtu.be/9J716rqAPCU

[tender pine]

I had ZX Spectrum, Amiga, SNES and N64, in that order.

N64 however holds a very dear place, even more than the others, just barely.

[vagrant ivy]

why the drop from Amiga !

Amiga was peak fun

[quick light]

I really enjoyed there video on the old og RE4 PC port and also comparing the PS2 and Gamecube ports.

[tender pine]

Haha. Amiga was phenomenal and only have incredible memories owning one, but SNES really did up the ante.

Still, via mister I love revisiting the Amiga with huge, huge help from Amiga vision.

I still love how European the Amiga feels in its games.

[vagrant ivy]

I do the Amiga on Winuae. The mister core just cant compete on AGA timings

[tender pine]

C'mon. You are talking negligible differences.

[cunning cradle]

Yeah, I loved that one. I had both the GameCube and PS2 versions so it was cool comparing my thoughts and theirs.

[vagrant ivy]

No the AGA timings are off by a long way on the Core

[tender pine]

But I thought that Amiga core was one of if not thee most mature of cores?

[vagrant ivy]

Its the oldest yes

but its missing anything over a 68020, and the Aga timings are worse than Winuae

which is nigh on perfect

FPGA is not Magic. Its good but not a magic bullet

[tender pine]

But I just want to emulate Amiga 500 and I'm only too aware every core is only as good as it's developer.

[vagrant ivy]

I want a 68060 Amiga that allows the latest demos

[tender pine]

Lofty. I'm old skool. Keeping it pure and back to basics.

[vagrant ivy]

The Mister is fine for playing an Amiga game on the tele

I had an A500. A1500, A1200, and now have a A2000 with a pistorm

[tender pine]

Besides - getting back on topic - ZX Spectrum, Amiga, SNES, all well and great, but nothing and I mean nothing compared to seeing Mario 64 that first time.

That was seismic.

A true revolution in a world of incremental upgrades.

Ocarina and Goldeneye rubber-stamped it.

These are only a few games but their DNA and reverberations can still be felt today.

[grizzled stratus]

The best latest demos target OCS/68000/512k/512k anyway

[vagrant ivy]

yep but its nice to see the 68060 ones

even if its not a real miggy

[trail swallow]

Honestly, it’s up to personal opinion. N64 version has more compressed audio, and the FMV’s are lower quality. It really is a technical marvel, though, and IIRC has slightly better textures. May be wrong about that, though.

[tender pine]

Reminds me a bit of Silent Hill 2 on OG Xbox. The almost same accusations were aimed at it but actually sitting down and playing it is 99.9% the PS2 experience and even sitting both of them side by side you'd struggle to notice the differences, so minor that they are.

[spare meadow]

RE 2 for N64 is just amazing! Hope that at some point we get a fix for the texture glitches, especially the blue box issue

[trail swallow]

PS2 version has better fog, and the flashlight effect looks better. The fog kinda got messed up in all the ports.

Thankfully, the PC port got fan patches that basically makes it the definitive version of the game

OH YEAH also, the XBox port changed the FMV’s from 60FPS to 30FPS. Seeing those cutscenes at 60 gave them a very uncanny feeling that halving the framerate kinda messes up.

Same problem with the PC version, but thankfully, one of the fan mods replaces those FMV’s with the ones from PS2.

[wanton sun]

is any of these easy reproducible inside the game? E.g. you go there and can watch it forever? Or at least trigger it over and over again? And how long would it take to get there?

i would need to get there with my emulator at 20% speed, so hopefully it would be something like: load a savegame and go to the next room

if it's more complicated, i fear we need to wait for a bigger FPGA so we can have savestates in the core

[sand jasper]

Is there any way to make n64 core to use specific bootrom depending of rom's region?

[upper pivot]

Rude 😭

[wanton sun]

currently no, but you could probably use some mgl if required. Why would you want to do that?

[vapid hawk]

hey @wanton sun ! how is your GBA game going ?

[sand jasper]

Ntsc bootrom doesn't work with pal roms for me

Only tested pal doom 64 tho

[magic girder]

Can’t you just have two bios files? boot.rom and boot1.rom?

(NTSC = boot, PAL = boot1)

[zinc dew]

sorry

[blissful plaza]

That's the correct method.

[worn delta]

I am confused by this multiple BIOS talk... The core already has an NTSC and a PAL boot room, and it sets this dependant on the game...

[magic girder]

I think you're assuming that the user followed a common method of supplying those boot roms. That might not have been true. The core itself doesn't supply those boot roms - they need to be provided by an end user.

But you're correct that the database will allow the core to select the right one, provding both are present - which I suspect they might not be in this case 😉

[wanton sun]

one playable version before christmas i guess 😅

[wanton sun]

boot1.rom for pal. Sorry, i misunderstood the question. Also i realized the readme doesn't contai nthat information currently. It's bad maintained overall, sorry

[deft matrix]

Take the pal bios and delete it. Now you're free

[worn delta]

Just run update all and make sure BIOS DB is turned on and then you are good to go with both BIOS files set up properly.

[lament escarp]

Pal was hell. People never believe me when I tell them how horrible slow and badly adjusted those games were.

[chrome quest]

PAL is great. Only N64 mode I use

[tender pine]

PAL >>>>> NTSC

I kid of course, or do I...

[blissful plaza]

At least, it had a pedigree.

😏

And NTSC = Never Twice the Same Color

[thorn quiver]

At least our color standard is right on average

By flipflopping every scanline

Dont let anyone call you indecisive, just say you're converging on the right decision

[toxic pumice]

Gotta be PAL wherever it's possible for me. 😉

I just have this thing about sticking with what I actually had, I guess.

[thorn quiver]

My personal fave is PAL-60

Best of both worlds

It's PAL... but also 60

[toxic pumice]

How about NTSC-50

I actually used to end up playing import games like that back in the day without realising things were way too slow.

Force 50hz on everything. Gimme that treacle gameplay.

[sand jasper]

Np, glad that people here are willing to help

[short dragon]

Where can I get the turbo core?

[green epoch]

Pinned messages #test-builds message

[mortal panther]

...or the GitHub repository.

[latent dagger]

This is why I have PayPal. I don't use it to trade money, or store money at all (I use Zelle which is built into my bank app for that).
I use it to get around some of the crap that sometimes happens with trying to buy stuff online from some places. I also use it as a means of protecting my payment info since any old site can try to store your card info and either get hacked or just sell it off, but PayPal is an encrypted thing

[short dragon]

tnx 🙂

[spare meadow]

@wanton sun Thank you so much! It would be great if you could take a looking at this.

The save file is for RE 2 Revision 0 and each save is near as possible from the room where the glich occurs.

Those issues are easily reproducible inside the game and since you don´t kill or get killed in the boss fight, you can watch it forever and using the save files, trigger it over again (except for the blue box issue that shows only 1 time).

Unfortunately, there is need to follow some steps to find the glichs.

Don´t know if there is any possible way to create a save state, but if its possible, you can trigger the issues over and over again since all of them are 100% reproducible.

My english isn´t that good but I will try my best. Maybe @gritty basalt could help with a better explanation for the directions and details.

When you load the save files you should look for:

Save File #13: Blue box appears when X Destroys Wall (Github issue #25)

Save File #14: Texture Glitches & Slowdown Occurs for the Final Boss for Leon A on the Regular Core (Github issue #57)

Save File #15: Texture Glitch Occurs At The Large-Sized Elevator (Github issue #56)

You can use the in game cheat for invincibility and unlimited ammo to fight the bosses.

For the blue box glich, you will need to go to the room that shows at the map (no zombies around), solves a small puzzle and escape from Mister X.

When you load the save file #13 you will start the game at this point:

You must go to this room (no zombies aroud):

When you get in the room, there is a small puzzle that you will need to use the lighter:

Them, use the lighter in the big candle (painted in yellow). That will start the puzzle, Them you shoud use the lighter on the the statue candles in this order: Number 12, Number 13 and Number 11.

Mister X will show up and now you need to exit the room and go aroud some corner and get to this position at the map:

At this point Mister X will break to wall and the blue box will appears:

I will try later when I get back home to make an explanation for Save File #14: Texture Glitches & Slowdown Occurs for the Final Boss for Leon A on the Regular Core (Github issue #57) and for Save File #15: Texture Glitch Occurs At The Large-Sized Elevator (Github issue #56). They are more simple to reproduce

[spare meadow]

Sorry for the late replay. Send you the save file in the post above

[wanton sun]

thank you. I will take a look this weekend. Thanks also for the description. I never really played any RE game so i have to find my way through it 😅

[topaz otter]

playing as tofu

https://tenor.com/view/cutting-tofu-maangchi-slicing-cutting-tofu-gif-17258825

[thorn quiver]

This feta is too jiggly

[manic basin]

I'm gonna tell my kids this is Jess Harnell.

[trail swallow]

Damn, he really does have a Jess Harnell haircut and beard

The voice of Wakko Warner made Doom

[spare meadow]

Use the vanilla core and load Save File #14 for the Texture Glitches in the Final Boss for Leon A (Github issue #57).

You will start the game at this point in the map:

You should go to the door at the other side of the room and go to this point at the map and enter the elevator rom:

As soon as you enter the room, the auto destruction sequence will be activated. Go the elevator and press the button:

The boss will show up and for the glich to happen, you will need to fight the boss near the elevator door as show in the video at the github page:

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_MiSTer/issues/57

Use the vanilla core and load Save File #15 for the Texture Glitch that Occurs At The Large-Sized Elevator (Github issue #56).

You will start the game at this point:

Go and exit the door at the other side of the room:

Go straight ahead and use the key at the control panel:

.

You will automatically enter the train again and after the cutscene, exit the train and fight the boss as show at the github page:

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_MiSTer/issues/56

[spare meadow]

Just included the description for save file #14 and #15. 😀
Thank you again for taking a look at this.

[vapid hawk]

can you make this faster by going and getting the key then going back and saving again? then you'd only have to run to the control panel

[spare meadow]

Great suggestion! Will be doing it in a few minutes! Thank you

[spare meadow]

here´s the new save game file (Resident Evil 2 Rev 0) using @vapid hawk suggestion. When load the game, you should look for:

Save File #13: Blue box appears when X Destroys Wall (Github issue #25)

Save File #14: Texture Glitches & Slowdown Occurs for the Final Boss for Leon A on the Regular Core (Github issue #57)

Save File #15: Texture Glitch Occurs At The Large-Sized Elevator (Github issue #56)

[wanton sun]

save 14 and 15 are too far inside and too short to really research, but i looked at save 13, the "blue box":
It seems that resident evil is the first game that uses color palettes that point to the same palette index for multiple pixels in a 4bit LUT and blends them together.
When looking at the palette color fetch code it's strange that this ever worked with any other game, but i guess most would just not blend together different pixel colors if you only have 16 colors but instead only use a single texel, which is working.
Fixing this would be a massive change with plenty of games to be tested, so i'm not sure yet when i will tackle it.
At least here is a savestate for easily checking the blue box in future.

maybe to explain it better, this is what a 16 color palette looks like.
3 point filtering just makes no sense usually with such colors, that's why we haven't seen it before

If the game now wants to filter any pixels inside(4 times the same, or whatever), the core currently just filters the main pixel and it's 3 neighbours instead of the ones that are really wanted.
E.g. in this example if the game would request to filter 3 times the red(0|0) and 1 times the yellow(0|1), the core would instead use the upper left 2x2 sqaure colors(0|0 0|1 1|0 1|1)
tldr: texture fetch bug in the core

[gritty basalt]

Fortunately, I was able to get the issue resolved, and now I'm on the waiting list for the first batch along with everyone else who's pre-ordered. Should give me enough time to get my hands on an Everdrive cart for the console.

[gritty basalt]

I don't think there's really much more I can add to these particular glitches besides what's already mentioned/shown on their respective GitHub pages (the pages I made, anyway). Pretty much everything anyone needs to know about them are on said pages.

[vapid hawk]

fascinating thanks for looking into this stuff!

[gritty basalt]

I have a feeling that I could spend hours learning about all the unique coding intricacies to RE2 in comparison to numerous other retail N64 releases and not get bored.

[spare meadow]

Thank you so much for looking at it! Could this somehow be related with the logo black line issue in Rayman 2?

If you are going to play RE 2 in the future, after you get used with the tank controls, you will see its an amazing game. Many hours of fun 😀 Hope you enjoy

Ps: I realy missed your reports. Pleasure to read them again

[wanton sun]

this type of game isn't really for me. Both the controls and also the type of game. But that's ok, everyone had their favorites

[lament escarp]

Just fyi in the n64 version you can turn off tank controls and turn on regular analog controls. In case it'll ever come in handy for debugging.

[wanton sun]

something went wrong....

[neat sierra]

Ship it

[marble cargo]

Good old clown vomit textures

[dry oak]

Is that the 3DO core!?

[wanton sun]

even with these textures, games still look better than any game on the 3DO 😛

[wanton sun]

feel free to try

Hopefully that breaks no other games, will therefore not commit until tested more

[jolly turret]

Out of curiosity, what are some of the games you enjoy most for this system?

[spare meadow]

Can’t wait to try this one! Thank you so much 😊

[jolly turret]

It is such a small and almost insignificant bug to fix, thank you for your effort.

[dawn halo]

Thank you!

[mossy vector]

Blend the color that the index value points to? Or is it the other way around, blend the index into the color pallete? I guess I'll see the HDL eventually.

[wanton sun]

the tri point filtering will fetch 4 texture colors and use 3 of them to determine the final color.
With palette mode, it will first use the texture address to fetch 4 palette pointers, then use these to fetch 4 color values and merge 3 of them together to one color value.
Now the difficult thing is that there is only 1 texture mem holding all the textures AND the palettes.
The Memory is organized as 8 seperate memories to allow fetching of 4 texture values and 4 palette values in parallel, each storing 1/8 of the data.
However, that means that the 4 texture values cannot be independend, instead they must be next to each other so by clever address logic you can always fetch all 4 of them in one cycle without issues.

For palette this is more difficult, because they can be fully random, so you must be able to fetch 4 completly independent values, as each color could point to a random palette entry.
Because each of the TMEM instances holds only 1/4 of the palette, you cannot do that, as e.g. address 0 can only be accessed by texture unit 0, but not by texture unit 1. (simplified)
So games usually just store each palette color four times, so address 0,1,2,3 all point to the same color, so it doesn't matter if unit 1 is loading from address 1 instead of 0.

RE2 does not in case the blue box bug, but instead depends on each texture unit to fetch independend addresses, e.g. unit 1 loading from address 0, not 1.
As this is not possible due to each TMEM instance only having a single port I currently have no clue how this was solved.
For the version above I just quadrupled the 5th TMEM instance, so each texture unit can read from the same palette memory
We have enough memory in the FPGA anyway, but not much logic left, so if this is doing the same as the original does with some different trick, i would prefer this logic.
But it must be proven that this is really what happens for other games. If not, it might gives some further clues to see how a game breaks due to the change

[lament escarp]

You ever thought about getting into education Robert? Your explanations are fantastic and you have a lot of knowledge to share.

Would also be a great way to assemble an army of free devs that can work on the ps2 core while you take care of management.

[compact depot]

I would buy a book from Robert on the knowledge he has about these cores/systems in a heartbeat

[gritty basalt]

I'd buy two copies

[wanton sun]

I don't think I would be happy with only writing. Also it would be so annoying if people come around and point out all the tiny inaccuracies. Especially with these retro systems where all the time new things are discovered.

[spare meadow]

I’ve been playing and testing the new build for some hours with RE 2, Super Mario 64, KI Gold and Mario Kart 64 Amped and so far everything is just fine

[mossy vector]

Try the other hundreds of mediocre forgotten games.

[spare meadow]

Blue Brothers is on my list

[wanton sun]

did you check if the other 2 bugs in RE2 are improved?

also thank you, i will also play some games today

[spare meadow]

Yes I did. The bug listed at File #15: (Github issue #56) is still there but I”ve got the impression that it not happens with the same frequency as before.

The bug listed at File #15 had no change. The interesting thing is that this bug only occurs using the vanilla core. It works flawless using the turbo core.

Thank you again for taking your time for fixing those bugs.

It’s so great to see the core at this stage where all the few no-time related bugs are getting fixed, even the smallest one😀

N64 core is just perfect!

[wanton sun]

i see, so the second one is a timing issue rather than a rendering issue. We will likely not see a fix with the current hardware then

[spare meadow]

What you already did was more than enough😀
Do you intend to release a new turbo core with this RE 2 fix too?

[wanton sun]

if it shows to be fine in the next weeks, i will create releases for both

[hollow lake]

im getting a black screen when I try to load super mario 64 on the latest n64 stable core.. im probably doing something dumb, is there an faq or something for this?

i could be missing the boot.rom.. i'll see if I can find a guide or something rather than just hope it works out of the box

ok its working.. but interestingly.. the 60fps patch does awful things 😂

it can be found here: https://romhacking.com/hack/60-fps-patch .. this is the guy that did the video about reverse engineering sm64 and making it much more optimised

[magic girder]

I feel like your mileage may vary with any framerate patch

[magic girder]

…”and fixes most of the physics issue”

[hollow lake]

it doesn't even get past the intro.. just displays garbled graphics and makes glitched sounds

[magic girder]

A lot of Kaze’s patches don’t work on the core. You often need to look for ones that run on original hardware - not sure if there is one in this instance

A huge number of SM64 patches only work on emulators in my experience

[hollow lake]

fair enough.. it was sold as if it should work on original hardware, but I don't have an n64 and im not that invested in finding out how true that is

i have a cheap n64 controller usb knock off.. and it lets me map the buttons.. ie, i can go through the controller setup.. but pressing start doesn't do anything

[marble cargo]

It's less that it's not compatible with original hardware, and more like the optimization is so tight that any imperfections like on the core can cause problems.

[hollow lake]

oh i see my 8bitdo snes controller is primary for some reason

[magic girder]

This may also be true but someone would need to verify I guess

[hollow lake]

do i need to unplug my other controller perhaps

i set up the controller in the main mister menu.. now it works properly in the core 👍

wowsers.. playing it on a commodore 1084s monitor, with the 24bit enabled.. is amazing

[wanton sun]

some older version of this hack worked but even with turbo core is not able to provide 60fps. Real hw also can never reach that, so the mod is pretty much useless unless you use some software emulator, but then you can also use the recompilation for much better quality.

[hollow lake]

just regular core and OG game

[wanton sun]

what do you mean? the normal game works fine

[hollow lake]

thats what i mean yeah.. but I was semi interested in this performance patch, but since it doesn't work, and it doesn't seem overly necessary.. i guess i'm not that interested in it

[wanton sun]

sorry, was not up to date with all comments and thought you have problems with the normal game as well

[hollow lake]

it seems to work great.. that was a nice distraction for a bit 😁

[mossy vector]

I'm finding the constant prompting to insert the rumble pak annoying when combined with games that also rely on the controller memory pak for saving.

Are there many games that would use controller 2 memory pak for saving, keeping rumble in controller 1?

[cerulean elk]

core vs NSO Mario Kart edition is up on #share-media

[zinc dew]

Densha de Go! 64 and Puyo Puyo Sun 64 translations updated - https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=39726

[cerulean elk]

Train time for you!

[spare meadow]

@zinc dew , could you fix this new build? In case anyone wanna try it

[zinc dew]

Thanks for the ping; pinned!

[mossy vector]

oh man, another N64 robby file (.rbf)

[blissful plaza]

No regression for me at the moment with the Multipalette version.
I've tested so far on Mario 64, Turok (1 & 2), Starfox, Sin & Punishment, Zelda OoT & MM, Mystical Ninja 1 & 2 & Wave Race 64.

[blissful wolf]

anyone with the saffun n64 controller, how did you set it up with the core? I've got it connected in xinput mode, but for whatever reason its inputing c-button inputs with the main stick on top of the main stick binding

[tender pine]

Get an OEM and be done. You'll hear pros and cons on all of the 3rd party imitators, some with more pros than cons and vice versa, but none of them come close to the feeling and responsiveness of Nintendos own.

[blissful wolf]

Figured it out, the binding for the n64 core that refers to left/right/up/down is the dpad, not the main stick. So was binding my main stick to the dpad which acts like c buttons in many games

[zinc dew]

Yeah was going to chime in with that but you got it

[zinc dew]

I’d say the Saffun (and its clones) are the best third party option for a wireless N64 controller. Its input lag is fantastically low.

[tender pine]

While that may or may not be true - needs much more testing - I'd still suggest a good OEM N64 controller is anybody's best bet.

Still plenty on eBay and the like with perfectly serviceable and better sticks. If you look harder and are willing to spend a little bit more you can get some essentially good as new.

It will all be worth it if you are in for the long haul.

[wanton sun]

thank you!

[broken creek]

I’m still in camp 8bitdo kit for the best wireless N64 controller.

[zinc dew]

Oh you’re suggesting SNAC? Yeah nothing beats an original.

[zinc dew]

Yeah I need to pick one of those up. Thinking of that and the GameCube one.

[broken creek]

GC kit seems well liked. I'll let it play out a bit, not in a hurry with that system.

[tender pine]

SNAC or Raphnet. Either. Both.

[broken creek]

What about N64 Daemonbite?

[tender pine]

Possibly. I only comment on items/accessories I have paid for using my own money and used relatively extensively.

[errant steppe]

Does n64 work forced scandoubling for 31khz?

this and ps1 wont sync to my monitor says its getting 15khz

Other stuff works like nes,snes,genesis

[hushed nova]

I don't think either of them support scandoubling

[errant steppe]

🙃

Damm

[vapid hawk]

should be straightforward to use vga-scaler instead i think?

[iron dove]

somethhing like this in MiSTer.ini, prob a dif/higher res for CRT monitor:
[N64] vga_scaler=1 video_mode=640,480,60

[thorny wolf]

Hello is there a specific way to save a game on the N64 core or can I do manually save states?

[zinc dew]

Depends on the game, some games save with onboard cart memory and some games require a memory pak. In either scenario, once the game says it’s saved, open the MiSTer core menu to write that save.

[thorny wolf]

Thank you

[mellow raft]

Make sure autosave is on for that to happen though. It has to be turned on for any core you want it to. Then make sure to save the core settings or autosave will revert back after you swap cores

[thorny wolf]

Have the option selected and saved before thank you 👍🏼

[tender pine]

Wait. Just reading above. You can't simply scandouble with the N64 core??

[rich warren]

No - too many 480i games. You can't scan double 480i

[zinc dew]

I just play N64 at the original resolution

[vapid hawk]

it also frees up some space in the core to exclude the scandoubler, psx doesn't have it either

its largely made redundant by vga-scaler anyway

[tender pine]

VGA scaler not come with any downsides?

[tender pine]

Is it possible you or anybody else has a list of all 480i games on N64? I always thought 480i was only an option with a small selection of games when using expansion pak.

[neat sierra]

Scandoubler doesn’t add lag I think while scaler adds scaler lag depending on vsync_adjust

[tender pine]

That's what I suspected. I suppose however even some lag via scaler but still operating under a CRT will be negligible.

[rich warren]

I think, as Freddo pointed out, it's just not going to be included to save space and potential headaches.
Here is some more info about lag (the block mentions HDMI, but it also affects the VGA port of the analog IO board):
https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_MiSTer/advanced/lag/#processing

[vapid hawk]

yeah if you're using vga-scaler out to a crt you can use vsync-adjust 2 to eliminate the lag. crts don't mind it at all

[blissful wolf]

does the core add a deadzone to the stick? the saffun controller I've got seems to have a larger deadzone on my mister than on my pc

[wanton sun]

there is no active deadzone added by the core itself

[blissful wolf]

testing it with the vkb joystick tester I can see that the actual axis is very low bit, which I guess with the 85+/- of the n64 is more than enough but its very funny comparing it to the 16bit flight control usb devices I have

I guess its an 8bit value

(for modern flight sims anything under 10bit is basically unusable lol)

[hushed nova]

main adds deadzones. 10 for DS3/DS4, 2 otherwise

you can override in ini with 'deadzone', see the sample ini for syntax

[blissful wolf]

Nah I think the deadzone is in my stick itself after all

And its not a deadzone in the center of the stick, but each axis has a deadzone in the center

[tender pine]

anybody got any experience with the Hudson N64 controller?

i rarely if at all see it mentioned. Is it particularly rare?

[tender pine]

C'mon people. I might be sitting on a goldmine here...

[blissful wolf]

Hudson as in hudson bay?

[tender pine]

As in the ppl behind Bomberman.

This controller specifically although this isn't my picture this is the exact one I have in my possession.

[ivory laurel]

VGE material

[broken creek]

Probably made by the same OEM as the standard OEM controller. Same as the ASCII turbo controller, just with fewer turbo switches.

[topaz otter]

Hudson from aliens

[topaz otter]

I see the picture, and i wonder exactly how this plays

and also what good are turbo switches on an N64 lol

[tender pine]

It's less the turbo switches and more the stick can be adjusted on the fly. Still don't know if it's to adjust sensitivity or a way to reposition the stick direction.

I can find anything official which either confirms or denies this.

Anybody can find exactly what the manual adjusting on this controller actually does would be much appreciated.

[tender pine]

Perfect. Id heard previously it was for sensitivity but this appears to prove once and for all it's to set the stick position.

[zinc dew]

What about the O-o-ku direction

[iron dove]

and cinematic rapid fire 🙂

[topaz otter]

But why

[tender pine]

So for cases where a lot of people who were holding the N64 controller on an angle pushing up would still register as up and not up-right or right - for example.

[zinc dew]

lol “MONEY”

[iron dove]

Someone who speaks Japanese, pls explain that Google translation 🙂

https://bomberman.fandom.com/wiki/Joycard_64 originals

[zinc dew]

it translated “PULL” lmao

[iron dove]

Seriously tho, bless the folks who upload manuals

Lol, I should have actually looked at the original 🙂

[tender pine]

Are these controllers considered particularly rare and/or valuable as a result of these features?

I just searched eBay now and can only find 2 available. Both from Japan, both in relatively poor condition.

Say if somebody had one of these controllers new in box...

😎

[green epoch]

https://www.ebay.com/p/1400366157

The only controller that matters

[iron dove]

Rare controller seeks unadaptable gamer with slightly askew thumb

[tender pine]

It's not that but rather a relatively prominent 3rd party developer who produced a controller which is basically all OEM parts - again, with my research - but some tweaks and options available should you wish.

[iron dove]

Just talking shit 🙂

[tender pine]

Me??

[iron dove]

Nah, me

[tender pine]

No. Seriously. What sh1t do you feel I'm talking?

[iron dove]

Referring to myself with the askew thumb comment

[tender pine]

All I come on here for is I'm a huge longtime N64 fan and wanted to get all the info on this controller possible.

Feels lots of other info for other controllers exist and even Misteraddons comprehensive N64 controller testing doesn't include this Hudson variant so that got my interest in it peaked.

https://misteraddons.com/blogs/news/ultra-n64-controller-review

[iron dove]

It interested me enough to have a search, definately wasn't having a go mate 🙂

[marble cargo]

I was wondering if there was any secret content associated with this controller, like what Hudson Soft did with the Super Joycard controller for the SNES.

I'm guessing there isn't, since I can't find any documentation saying so.

[tender pine]

I've heard that definitely some hidden and/or unlockable content is available via this controller and either Bomberman 64 or Hero, or possibly both. I think it was just costumes and the like. This is the information I have at least.

[topaz otter]

I own this

Brand new still in it's case

[green epoch]

same. my kids will retire on it

[topaz otter]

I didn't realize you could get it graded

How wacky

[green epoch]

oh grading is the biggest grift around. only a matter of time before gamestop offers it

[quick light]

That RE chainsaw controller is epic. Mines just currently on my shelf

[trail swallow]

The hell, they made a Bomberman-themed Joycard for the N64, too?!?!

I have the one they made for the Saturn.

[tender pine]

Too true they did.

[delicate oriole]

Hi! I am testing the 80MHz core and I was curious whether there were games that clearly show big improvement on it (without patches). Any suggestions?

[lament escarp]

Castlevania legacy of darkness in high res mode is apparently a big one.

And golden eye

[inner isle]

Maybe turok games that uses expansion pak

[willow linden]

perfect dark is much smoother too

banjo tooie can chug on original hardware, but it's smooth on the turbo core

[blissful wolf]

Is there a master list or google sheet listing all the games that benefit or break?

[willow linden]

i don't believe so, the developer made the 80mhz version for fun basically so any issues with timing aren't a priority. the main core is the focus

i personally use the 80mhz by default, and if a game seems off i switch to the normal one

but i've only found that a couple sports in nagano winter olympics were impacted, where it was easier to win on turbo

otherwise i haven't really found any issues. but i'm pretty sure nothing "breaks", just might be weird things if there's a timer involved?

but i don't test thoroughly, i've just been going through my favorite games and nostalgia one by one 🙂

[delicate oriole]

Thanks for the answers! I will try these.

[placid ferry]

I think Star Fox 64 plays much smoother

[iron wren]

Gauntlet too, not quite perfect in dense scenes but much better.

[topaz otter]

I need to see a video of this, the part where you turn into a dinosaur literally runs at less than ten frames on real hardware

[marble cargo]

Oh yeah, Terrydactyland runs like absolute shit on original hardware.

[green epoch]

N64.gif

[rocky spindle]

Even when using a SNAC adapter?

[zinc dew]

I don’t know! That’s a great question. I haven’t thought to test it myself.

[hushed nova]

I don't think so. if what you're referring to is what I think it is, it is done in main which can't see SNAC controllers

[zinc dew]

Ok great, thank you! 👍

[last wraith]

Anyone finished Majoras Mask?

[iron wren]

long time ago

[magic girder]

Never

Nor have I finished OoT

[last wraith]

:O)))

[plush summit]

I beat MM on the core

[tender pine]

Anybody know how I can identify if an Extreme Green N64 controller is legit or not?

[topaz otter]

Is it green?

[magic girder]

Is it Extreme?

[tender pine]

C'mon people. Be serious.

[green epoch]

To be fair, those are the two easiest tests.

[latent dagger]

99% likely it's official if it actually has the Nintendo stamp on it

[quick light]

What might help is opening the controller and checking the board..see if it matches other Nintendo N64 remote boards.

Check the controller screws? (If your concerned with the shell)

That's how I would check to see if an N64 controller is 100% official.

If the board is original, then youd just have doubts on the shell. Incase you think it's a reshell. Id then compare the shell and screws to other controllers and high quality scans online.

(and why I suggest checking the screws. I'm guessing like most reshells of anything, they use their own screws and not the OEM. But that's like overkill checking, but yeah. )

[magic girder]

Checking the minor details like screws seems to be the best way

[vapid hawk]

most clone shells i've seen don't have the actual nintendo stamp at the top

[tender pine]

Hi. Thanks everybody for your help and suggestions. I will chase this up using said recommended measures.

[latent dagger]

Yeah, cuz Nintendo didn't fuck around ever when it came to that stuff lol. People learned hard and fast not to bother trying

[stone pilot]

Except on Game Boys

[lunar ginkgo]

I'm having a lot of trouble getting the picture to look right. I'm just using the stock HDMI connection. I've tried forcing lower 4:3 resolutions but my TV just stretches the picture to 16:9. Best I've come up with is all the "original" options in the AV menu and the JVC screen filter. I'd like to go without a filter but so far this is the only way I've found to make the polygons not look like a jagged mess.

[rich warren]

There's a clean HDMI option, but honestly being a 240p 3D console with small texture memory, the N64 is a blurry jagged mess by nature

The 720p video mode (3x upscale of 240p) with the Interpolation Only filter preset should be very clean though

With Aspect Ratio set to Original as well

[lunar ginkgo]

I'm already on 720p. Clean HDMI distorts the textures on interpolation only but it looks better than the original options set with the JVC filter.

I remember having a capture card in my PC when I had the original hardware. I always remember the screenshots looking like ass. I guess the video processing design is heavily based on the CRT technology of the time.

[rich warren]

Yeah - being able to use a CRT with the MiSTer and especially for N64 is a huge selling point for me

[marble cargo]

Honestly I think Nintendo 64 games being all clean looks significantly worse.

Like I see all the muddy textures and artifacting, and I just get confused as to why people think having that all exposed is an improvement.

[rich warren]

Even worse when the polygons are rendered at super high res with their low res textures stretched over them in software emulation. N64 needs a CRT airbrush

[latent dagger]

Just to clarify you are connecting to modern HD widescreen TV right?

[lunar ginkgo]

yeah

[latent dagger]

And it looks stretched out right?

[lunar ginkgo]

when I set it to the 4:3 resolutions (640x480, 800x600, 1024x768)

[latent dagger]

Yeah that's probably just the view mode on the TV. Open the TV OSD menu and make sure it's not set to something like full. You would want to use what is usually called "direct"

[lunar ginkgo]

I looked through the TV options. didn't find anything

[latent dagger]

Are you sure? Any options for things like full, zoom, zoom 2, normal all in a list with each other?

Perhaps if you have the official TV remote that came with it and has a button for the view mode on the remote instead like TVs of old?

[lunar ginkgo]

no, nothing like that

[latent dagger]

Is this like some super basic older HDTV?
In the event that your TV just does not give you viewing mode options (which is hella weird) then you will need to just make the mister output a widescreen resolution instead. As long as you are using a scaling method that keeps the aspect ratio of the games themselves intact, it won't affect the image. It'll be a widescreen image of a 4:3 game with black space on either side

[lunar ginkgo]

I know it's a problem with the TV. It's not a very good one

[latent dagger]

My TCL is hella basic but gets the job done for me lol. Bought it back in like 2019 or something for $300

Let's me play my modern games at 4K with HDR

[lunar ginkgo]

this is a samsung I bought in a post Christmas sale 2 years ago when I moved to Seattle.

[latent dagger]

Ok, does it have that whack ass custom Samsung smart operating system?

[lunar ginkgo]

yes

[latent dagger]

See if this works:

Settings (all settings)
Picture
Picture size settings
Picture size

Do you have those options?

[lunar ginkgo]

yes but 16:9 is the only option

[latent dagger]

Not even custom

[lunar ginkgo]

nada. 16:9 is the only option

[latent dagger]

What other settings do you have? Low latency and scaling for example

Try setting the mister to output at 960x720

[lunar ginkgo]

nothing like that. only color adjustments

[latent dagger]

And can you confirm that the mister is outputting that resolution when you reset it by opening the mister OSD and going to the left menu

[lunar ginkgo]

I set it to the resolution you suggested, the menu you requested shows two resolution settings, The bottom is the same as what I set and the top looks about half that

[latent dagger]

have you tried different HDMI ports on the TV?

[lunar ginkgo]

there are only 2 ports and they're both the same as far as specs

[latent dagger]

not sure if the TV has you try to tell it what kind of device/content is associated with the selected input either but if it does, try changing it around to something like "set top box" or "satellite" or something

[lunar ginkgo]

nothing like that. It tries to read device info through HDMI but as far as the TV is concerned, it's a PC

[latent dagger]

all I can dig up online is that you are supposed to be able to change the mode in settings and that you should have an option for custom or even 4:3

stupid samsung is what I'm gonna chalk it up to.
You could try enabling low latency mode in mister ini and maybe it'll force it to think it's something else.
can also try doing a factory reset on your TV in it's settings and seeing if perhaps it's just an issue with some other function of TV settings causing this.

That's what happens when you try to make your TV "too" smart and think it knows best when it doesn't lol.

[lunar ginkgo]

"should be able to" and christmas clearance sale are two sides of the poverty coin that I'm on the wrong side of lol

[latent dagger]

I mean bruh, from all pictures and documentation straight from samsung themselves lol. it's just that for whatever reason the TV isn't seeing that the content is appropriately 4:3 and giving you the options.
Doing a factory reset may perhaps solve some issues who knows.

may be related to it being a non conventional device, may be some other reason. not really sure.

may also just be the HDMI port you are using doesn't play nice with the input and changing ports works

any particular reason you want to output a 4:3 signal to begin with?

[lunar ginkgo]

I was hoping restricting the image size would make it look less wonky without screen filters.

[latent dagger]

wonky how?

[lunar ginkgo]

Every time I mess with the settings, either the polygons look more jagged or the textures overtake the image and look oversized

I'm finding it looks best with all the original options in the AV menu and the JVC scanline filter

[latent dagger]

typically you want to output 1080p and set scaling to integer (sometimes might have a small black space above and below the image but it's pixel perfect)

You don't want to mess with anything else.

Then assuming you are playing 3D games on PSX or N64, you can adjust some things like texture filtering.

Old games like PSX games will not look HD ever because you aren't rendering the game at 1080p. the game is still rendering at 240p and that image is just being scaled.

if you want that crisp clean HD look with no jaggies, you want to use a software emulator which can actually render the textures at a higher resolution internally.

same honestly for N64

and then yeah, using a CRT filter of some kind helps with the blending of pixels as well if wanting a more original CRT look on the modern display.

[iron dove]

yeah, 720/1080 output and vscale_mode=1 in mister.ini should be what you want

[latent dagger]

as for good filters, Robby has some that people seem to really like

https://github.com/RGarciaLago/VIDEO_PRESETS_by_Robby

Me personally I have a CRT I play on. HDMI output is for if I travel, and for capture card.

[lunar ginkgo]

720p is what I usually do due to the limitations of my capture device. It looks passable on my TV but my capture card looks bad. I'll have a look at the filters and see what I can find. Thanks.

[latent dagger]

lower the resolution, the less good filters are.

if you want a recommendation for a capture card that will do 1080p60fps for cheap I can throw one at you assuming that the one you have now only does 1080p30 which is why you are doing 720p capture

and by cheap I mean $20

with a passthrough port

[lunar ginkgo]

yup. Avermedia kinda hosed me when I got my card

[latent dagger]

avermedia typically has good stuff.

is it a super ancient card or something?

[lunar ginkgo]

super ancient describes almost everything about me lmao

it's the original livegamer HD

[latent dagger]

is that an internal card?

[lunar ginkgo]

yeah

[latent dagger]

from what I can gather it should do 1080p60 just fine at that point.

[lunar ginkgo]

no, it's why they had to make the II

[latent dagger]

oh ye I see it now. oof. Want me to link you that $20 card that performs better with USB?

[lunar ginkgo]

sure

[latent dagger]

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807158535815.html

supports all the good stuff for passthrough so can use it with modern consoles too.

if you've never bought anything off Ali before, you can get it even cheaper with the "welcome" price discount

otherwise it's like $18

[lunar ginkgo]

https://youtu.be/jXrq7Ncc4_o

that's what it looks like right now

[marble cargo]

It looks normal.

[latent dagger]

youtube compression doesn't help but ye, looks like a low resolution N64 game complete with that staple vaseline blur

the CRT filter itself is a preference of course. and the higher the resolution you can output from the MiSTer the better it can look though to you as you play with it. it won't be perfect though because of how LCD works, it will darken the image a bit (which is why a lot of retro enthusiasts are getting OLED displays)

but ye, looks like N64. you can try to deblur the game a bit in the core settings by turning off things like the VI filter or whatever it is called

disabling the anit aliasing as well can make it look a little sharper ( less smeary)

[mossy vector]

Perhaps some of the frustration is from the absence of advanced lighting and shadows. No amount of fiddling with settings is going to add details that aren't there to begin with.

Textures are typically diffuse. Specular lighting is barely used ingame, usually only seen on car selection screens.

[latent dagger]

sometimes it's just a matter of memory and perception.
if you grew up playing these games on a CRT they looked a certain way to you as a kid.
If you play them in later years on an LCD they don't look as good.
worse though is if you happen to revisit these games in later years via emulation which then replaces the way you remember them looking with that more raw, high color, clean look, then when you go to play them again as they originally were they don't hold up to your "memory"

and if you also get used to modern day games looking less aliased and more clean, going backwards gets a bit jarring

[last wraith]

It’s just that N64 graphics have aged bad

Simple as that

[eternal ravine]

Some of it looks nice IMO
Mostly games by Rare and Nintendo tho

[storm vessel]

IIRC they were the only ones with official dev tools hence better looking titles from them. Fuzzy recall.

[blazing knot]

pretty good list! kinda wonder if my particular brawler 64 wireless just has problems with it's deadzone because I find it almost impossible to do tiptoe movement in games like mario 64 or banjo, while on the NSO controller it's just fine

[eternal ravine]

I kind of want to play the Indiana Jones game using the turbo core
That uses the expansion pak IIRC

Also, imagine an N64 version of Day of the Tentacle

[topaz otter]

I am serious, and don't call me shirley

Also sometimes you can just look at the plastic

Clones most of the time are made with cheap plastic

You can look at fake N64 games and tell their not legit, the plastics a different mix

[junior pine]

Hmm... wasn't there an Scummvm port for the N64?

In faaaact, if you look for Scummvm-n64 on archive, you can play DOTT on the N64 readily

[eternal ravine]

Yeah but I mean an original 3D game

[storm vessel]

I wanted to as well but will finally give it a go on the core 🤘

[trail swallow]

A good majority of the N64 library, really. Most titles don’t hit a consistent 30FPS, so you get frame drops or slowdown in spots. The most noticeable examples are the Rare games. Both Banjo games, DK64, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, and Jet Force Gemini really pushed the N64 hardware, arguably too far. So, the turbo core makes all those games much more playable.

Another big example is Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire. That game has a notoriously low framerate, often going down to the teens. With the turbo core, though, it often goes into the 40’s, very rarely hitting 60.

[broken creek]

Shadows of the Empire was the first game I played on turbo core. Very improved.

[trail swallow]

Yeah. The framerate is abysmal on original hardware.

[iron wren]

Gauntlet is pretty apparent too, with the hub and the end of most levels hitting 60 sometimes, but most of the time running at 20ish

[storm vessel]

from 20 to 60? that's quite jarring

[last wraith]

Yeah would be nice with a list of games that improves with the pro core

[iron wren]

Game usually runs at 30ish, with really empty scenes hitting 60 and really busy scenes running 20ish. It’s impressive it runs that well, they shove a lot of detail into that frame rate!

[severe yoke]

Let me prefix this with this fact. I am not a smart man. I am trying to download the turbo core form the pinned comment but Discord is saying I don't have permission. What am I doing wrong?

[zinc dew]

Try again, I gave you the Cycle Accurate role

[severe yoke]

Cool thanks. Appreciate it.

[verbal urchin]

I’m not near my mister physically since I’m away for school, but can someone let me know if the Mister has the ability to run texture hacks?

like for example, MasterKillua’s 4K/HD texture back for Paper Mario?

[zinc dew]

No, sorry. The MiSTer’s approach to emulation is quite different than a software emulator.

[verbal urchin]

Gotcha, thanks!

[zinc dew]

My pleasure, friend!

[lament escarp]

In general anything that doesn't run on real hardware can't run on mister. Edited since Jamie is right.

[raw oriole]

*can't

It's insane how often autocorrect inverts that

[latent dagger]

shame though. there are some pretty neat game mods that only work on emulator, and not because it's a mod that requires a little extra processing power either, just cuz it's easier to implement than going and buying real hardware and an everdrive

[weak hill]

guys, the resident evil 2 glitch of bad sprites was resolved with robert´s fix? right?

[mossy vector]

if you mean the texture color palette fix, then yes people are reporting yes.

[placid ferry]

I've recently been having an issue with the N64 core (both). I'm on official main, and cores are up to date, but now certain games load to a black screen (that used to work in the past, like Banjo, Zelda, etc) while other games continue to work fine. I erased the database and redownloaded it, but still nothing. Any suggestions? Thanks!

[rich warren]

try deleting the N64 config file. The MiSTer will generate a new one with default values.

[placid ferry]

Ok thanks man, will give that a try!

[weak hill]

yes, i was, thanks for the answer, incredible stuff from robert

[topaz otter]

sometimes they'll work if someone has modified the original rom and hex edited the new textures in

I mean on a technical level the mister n64 core IS a real N64 or as close as you'll ever get as far as accuracy

so anything that a real N64 can run, the core will run, in theory.

but its not going to run a bunch of rom hacks where the person that made it took advantage of the fact that they were making it on an emulator and did a bunch of wacky tricks

[zinc dew]

Pins updated. Please let me know if I need to add something. Thank you.

[latent dagger]

What is this multi pallet

[zinc dew]

Experimental fix for some color palette wonkiness in Resident Evil

[broken creek]

Oh I missed that update. Thanks for cleaning up the pins Robby.

How has that multi pallet been for those of you using it? Has it broken anything?

[spare meadow]

Tested it with several games and everything is fine for me

[hollow carbon]

Hi guys, is there a way to access the N64 Turbo Core link? Trying to get into it, but it's not granting me access.

Trying to play Mario Tennis Doubles with my wife, and I'm hoping to check and see if it would fix the slowdown.

[zinc dew]

hey friend, try again. I gave you the Cycle Accurate role whuch gives you access

[hollow carbon]

Superb! Just tried it out and it worked like a charm. Thank you kindly!

[zinc dew]

My pleasure, have fun!

[gritty basalt]

I'm a little late to the multi-palette core party, but I wanted to report that this particular texture glitch involving Mr. X bursting through a particular wall in the RPD in the Claire B scenario has indeed been remedied for me when I use the multi-palette N64 core Robert dropped a short while ago. I'm assuming this particular texture glitch for this exact segment in the Leon B scenario has also been fixed as well, although I can also do some extra testing and get footage from Leon B if necessary.

[spare meadow]

I played both Leon B and Claire B scenarios and the texture issue (blue box) is fixed

[rocky spindle]

(Sorry - didn’t see that you clarified HD displays a couple of posts later 😅. I agree on that! I can’t play N64 on a flat panel, either).

[rocky spindle]

Settings.

[last wraith]

I have an RGB modded N64 with Tim Worthingtons modchip. It got that deblur feature. I should compare it to the Mister core one day

I've always felt that the deblur filter is hit or miss. In some games it does make it cleaner looking and makes a big difference. in other barely anything or very little

[tender pine]

That being the case better just to leave it on no? This way - like you say - it will either 'improve' some games and the others will have no detrimental effect.

Also. What's all this 'cant play N64 on a flat panel' weirdness. I've been a long, longtime N64 player and fan, since day 1 essentially. Playing N64 all thanks entirely to Roberts impossible core on my flat panel, everything looks great. Different than on a CRT, no doubt, due to how both technologies work, but not worse. Clean HDMI and those sharp pixels/polygons. Bliss.

[last wraith]

i usually test it out on per game basis

[tender pine]

I just feel some people take it too far. Like I say, I've played N64 day 1 via a CRT, got my N64 hdmi modded and now am blessed with Mister N64 core, all great ways to play N64. None of the above mentioned bad ways. All actually great ways.

Oh. I also am fortunate to own a RGB modded N64.

Bad ways exist to play N64. All the aforementioned are great ways, luckily for us.

[last wraith]

i think alot of people who nowdays return to N64 with their flat panels are kind of shocked to see how blurry it looks

that's not how they rememeber the games from their childhood