Nintendo 64

[fair stump]

Has mister supported this kind of patching before?

[vapid hawk]

no

oh maybe in MRA's a little bit actually?

[zinc dew]

Ohh didn’t know

[vapid hawk]

thats how a lot of variants all work off the same base mame rom iirc

[weary palm]

If anyone has a better idea of how to do this I'm all ears. 😉

Hopefully we wont need any kind of patching in the future. I just wanted to make it easier for people. 🙂

[zinc dew]

Yeah, I view it as a good temp solution

I’m confident everything will be ironed out eventually

[spare meadow]

@weary palm just tested JFG and it works great! Thank you so much for making our lives easier !
Is it possible to show the information that the game was pached too?

[weary palm]

That's not a bad idea 🙂

What should it say? "Patched ✓" ?

[weak hill]

"Enjoy"

[spare meadow]

For me that’s just perfect

[solemn marlin]

Will I be playing jet force gemini and think to myself "huh this is pretty good, good thing I can finally play it now"? 🤔

[jolly turret]

Obviously most people in this discord here will not have issues patching their own games, but there are people out there genuinely struggling with such kind of tasks. If it helps make the experience easier for people I'm all for it. Thanks for the work put into making it work.

[weary palm]

@spare meadow A new version uploaded to #test-builds . I deleted the old one.

[mortal panther]

Awesome work

Thank you

[weary palm]

@jolly turret It's a question of knowing that such a patch exists and to know where to look for them too.

by adding it to the database file, you don't need to think about it. the patch is just there by a simple "update-all" or so

[spare meadow]

Thank you!!

[jolly turret]

Yes, that is absolutely true. I don't even know which patches I still need to use and which I don't, but this is partially because I'm always busy with things and it's easy for me to lose track of new changes.

[topaz otter]

apparently the banjo kazooie decomp is done

be cool to see a full 60fps version of that game one day

[languid dune]

Well the Xbox version is 60fps, so we do have that at least for now.

[zinc dew]

The Xbox versions of the Banjo games and Perfect Dark are amazing.

[dusty tusk]

Holy crap, we got auto patching now?

[zinc dew]

maybe, who’s asking?

[zinc dew]

Then yes, my friend!

You can find the test build here - #test-builds message

[dusty tusk]

I'll wait for the pwm build 😉

[gilded whale]

Poking through the files there’s no core, just a mister main and a database txt file. Which I think means you can use it with any core you please?

[atomic stratus]

yeah I think it’s just a MiSTer main update, not an actual core update

[gritty basalt]

Nice!

[hidden bolt]

This is great! This will effectively make the core more compatible without any (*but you need patches). How are you handling the mario kart turbo patch?

[blissful plaza]

So far, so good on Polaris Snowcross, JFG & Batman Beyond at least.

I've played for at least 30 minutes each game.

[spare meadow]

RE 2 is ok too. When I first tried to played, I used cheats and got a crash after 10 min (Leon A), so it’s don’t count.
Reloaded the game and been playing for around 2 hours (Leon A) now and everything working as expected.

[potent stream]

It'll never be capable of an accuracy that would be okay for speedrunning against console players if that's what you're after. For example ddd the sound lags rather than the game lags in sm64

Are there additional stages other than dreamland that would be viable because no lag?

[surreal bay]

Not really for vanilla tournaments. For remix tournaments there are more stages that are played.

Most of the original stages are more or less setup so the best characters in the original cast are even better or have features that make it easy to camp and stall indefinitely.

[north lagoon]

Does exist a list of games that can't run on N64 due to DE-10 limitations and need to be patched?

[magic girder]

#1096015979055697940 message

[zinc dew]

It’s not due to de10 limitations it’s just bugs that need to be ironed out.

But the de-10 limitations makes it hard to debug lol

[zinc dew]

Thanks again for writing that detailed and well explained post, amigo!

[magic girder]

Any time ❤️

[uncut gyro]

uh, I thought it was the HPS bandwidth that meant we couldn’t get the timings to be consistent?

that doesn’t qualify as “de10 limitations”?

[magic girder]

DDR3 latency, I think

Rather than bandwidth

But I might be wrong

[zinc dew]

thats a good point

the patches i believe modify timings on the game to work better with the core

so yeah to what your saying the bandwidth may prevent us from getting 100% accurate timings

[spare meadow]

Another RE2 (revision 0) glitch. The elevator wall just keeping disappearing each time I shoot. Leon A Campaign, using the last N64 build (popfade). I have a save file if someone would like to try

[weary palm]

@hidden bolt i haven't added any turbocore patches to db.

[vapid hawk]

does it work if you do it before the boss arrives

[weary palm]

Mario Kart 64 patches for the Turbo Core.

[spare meadow]

It work’s just fine.

[spare meadow]

Is there any bad side effect if the turbo patch is used with the vanilla core?

[spare meadow]

Thanks!

[vapid hawk]

hm, need an extra tag in the database to only patch for turbo?

[weary palm]

I'm not sure there's any way for main to detect if it's running the turbo core or the regular. I don't know of any way.

Robert could probably set a flag that I could read, but I'm not sure how useful this would be.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_MiSTer/blob/c358bce380677a4ae45a7cc5ee843c0e2e375815/N64.sv#L289

[simple olive]

parameter CONF_STR = {

[spare meadow]

@weary palm just curious: is it possible that the database could do this? Not my kind of game but probably few people’s know that’s this necessary to play this game.
#1096015979055697940 message

[weary palm]

Kind of... but I don't think I should.

There's no way of overriding the current debug settings with a value of your own, you can only alter it. Sure, I could save the old value before changing it but there are a few problems with that approach. If I would to save my settings while this game were loaded, max delay would be the new standard for ALL games.

Sure, I could probably fix this in some way, but the effort would be much greater than the worth, if you ask me.

That game is barely playable on a real N64, so. 🤣

[hidden bolt]

I think it would be useful to have a option to disable the patches in the debug menu for dev work if that is possible.

[weary palm]

Robert would have to add the toggle.

Devs could just comment out the patches in db in the mranwhile

[wanton sun]

what is the real downside of using the mk64 patches in the normal core? That you don't get the "accurate" speed issues that the real console has? I think most people would prefer that, even if it's not accurate. 4 player DK jungle is no fun without this

[hidden bolt]

It just runs a little slower then a real n64, but without the patch it runs a little faster so not really better or worse.

[wanton sun]

slower means consistent 20 fps in that case, while faster means more often 30fps, which is 150% speed and barely able to drive 🙂

i think pj64 has it always on?

[hidden bolt]

yes, but p64 can always run 30 fps like the turbo core. I think the patch for the regular core is probably fine, but just a little too slow in some multiplayer modes in some situations. But as you said maybe better than without on average.

[wanton sun]

i see. So if it's consistent 30fps, then the game speed is also 100% in that case and not speed up?

[hidden bolt]

yes

with the patch

[wanton sun]

Wow, then i should really use the turbo core + patch the next time we play, thank you. Didn't knew this 🙂

[weary palm]

Hi Robert. There isn't currently any way of detecting if we're running regular or turbo core from HPS, right?

[wanton sun]

I implemented the deblur method from HDMI mods that we talked about @rare relic
The result is that you can get the deblur from Bilinear off while still keeping most of the information, e.g. the texts in goldeneye.

VI-Option that must be activated, keep bilinear on when using it

[wanton sun]

Probably not. Maybe you could read the pll but i guess not. I Could add something

[weary palm]

All config strings looked the same, anyway

[wanton sun]

If i change the name of the core, that would be bad, as then new folders are made

[obtuse estuary]

What does ist do?

[hidden bolt]

In the case of mario kart I think it is not really necessary but a patches toggle in the debug menu would allow people to disable it if preferred and also be useful in general.

[wanton sun]

easiest would probably be to add a status bit that is hidden in the OSD

yes, patch toggle sounds good

[weary palm]

Yeah, don't change the core name pls. Das wäre schlecht

[wanton sun]

Are you ok with the patch toggle to be in system settings? I would add it above the "From N64-Database" options

would like to keep all the things that communicate with HPS in that menu

[hidden bolt]

sounds good

[weary palm]

That's fine by me.

[jolly turret]

Does anything change when using the default settings? I seem to prefer the original mode.

[wanton sun]

will also add a turbo core bit there, but disabled, so you can only see at runtime if you are on turbo or not

[wanton sun]

no, original is still there and unchanged. Only if you want it, you can activate it

[weary palm]

As soon as you've decided about the bits, please tell me which ones. M'kay? 😇

[wanton sun]

1 second

   "d15P2O[69],Turbo core,No,Yes;",
   "P2O[90],Patch games,Yes(Auto),Off;",

opinions? @weary palm

[weary palm]

@wanton sun Thats probably fine. Good that patch is normally on and turbo normally off.

[wanton sun]

should i send you test cores with this and one with turbo bit set?

[weary palm]

If you want and have time. Keine Eile

[wanton sun]

today i'm at the computer where i can, not sure about the next days, so i'd rather do it now 🙂

[ripe cargo]

Will these be new toggles in the core, and does that mean there will just be one core with a turbo toggle?

[wanton sun]

no, turbo online toggle would cost another pll reconfig, reducing space for the turbo core even further, decreasing maximum stable clock speed

you will only be able to see if you are using turbo or not

if the core would not be as full as it is, it would be possible

[ripe cargo]

Oh I see. Thanks for the explanation!

[wanton sun]

it wouldn't be super useful anyway, because you could not switch at runtime

maybe would even need to save settings and reload the core, because the ddr3 clock speed is also switched

[ripe cargo]

Oh yes, that would probably be inconvenient.

[rare relic]

Awesome stuff, when I get back from my trip I'll give it a go immediately!

[spare meadow]

@gritty basalt , if possible, could you test to see if you get same results?

[wanton sun]

probably all the same graphical glitch

[spare meadow]

Thanks

[velvet nexus]

Played fine unpatched. Latest core just worked after update-all

[jovial briar]

this realtime patching is so convenient

[velvet nexus]

Is that why it's working?

[lament escarp]

I think conker, gauntlet and naboo have been fixed in the core. Afaik jfg and re2 still require patches, which are automatic in the latest testbuild.

[zinc dew]

That’s correct 🍻

[lament escarp]

Do I get a gold star?

[neat sierra]

So by being lazy and not playing the problematic titles we now benefit from said laziness by having to do nothing in order to run them after these changes go in? I think this is a clear win for indolence

[zinc dew]

I mean, you won’t be missing much? 🤷‍♂️

JFG slowly reveals to you what an asshole of a game it is and Resident Evil 2 is arguably better on the PS1.

And no one besides me wants to play Polaris SnoCross lol

[neat sierra]

I’d argue but I’m too lazy

[lament escarp]

Those were all considered to be excellent games and a real travesty for not being playable when they didn't work and now everybody is like "meh".

Roberts prophecy came true.

[zinc dew]

Sorry, I am really excited

I was just trying to be objective but I came across as negative

I think it’s really amazing they work

[weary palm]

I tried RE2 for a while yesterday and was reminded how much I hate tank controls.

[lament escarp]

The bugfix I was most excited for was the one in majoras mask tbh. 😅 yes 1 second in mm is more important to me than the whole game of gauntlet.

[lament escarp]

The n64 version has 3d stick controls in the options.

[weary palm]

Ooh. Nice.

[zinc dew]

Yeah, I think I was wrong on that

[weary palm]

Will try

[zinc dew]

RE2 on N64 is equal to PS1, better in a lot of ways actually

Missing some content but also has more content

[lament escarp]

RE2 on MiSTer us equal to MiSTer, better in lot of ways actually.

That's what you're saying.

Don't be held back by consoles, friend.

Embrace fpga.

[zinc dew]

No battle mode but has randomized content, higher resolution, better animations, alternate outfits, and also more lore to collect

It’s a legitimately great port

[lament escarp]

And all in a 64mb cartridge. Very impressive.

[weary palm]

Nintama Rantarō 64 is probably the best game on the system.

[zinc dew]

lol

[weary palm]

Those puzzles are so fun

[lament escarp]

Maybe we can ask Ruleset to make a translation of the evangelion game? Or you could ask the Japanese when you're there anyway Robby.

[zinc dew]

I’m probably harsh on JFG too, probably just child trauma from collecting bears manifesting itself lol

I also love Gauntlet Legends, such a fun multiplayer game

[weary palm]

It was fun shooting said bears.

[zinc dew]

The auto patching is a great accessibility tool, thank you

[lament escarp]

So when the auto patching is an official release, does that mean the patched games can be considered playable since the mister handels everything from a ordinary rom or is it still it's own thing?

[mossy vector]

Did you have the player's guide? For example, to get 101% on Donkey Kong Country 1 it was like fall below to an invisible moving platform, then jump up to the invisible barrel.

[zinc dew]

I didn’t haha

Maybe part of my troubles!

[mossy vector]

Mentioning it because it's an often forgotten part of gaming.

A few areas of frustration seemed baked in intentionally to sell guides.

[spare meadow]

RE 2 for N64 is the best version of the game on any platform 😀

[ivory laurel]

The new deblur option looks amazing, superior to the clean hdmi output in my opinion. Thank you @wanton sun for your hard work! There is no better way of experiencing N64, excellent compatibility, myriad of options and the ability to use any controller

[zinc dew]

Yeah? That’s cool. I own the original cart!

How does it stack up to GameCube?

[lament escarp]

I did a re marathon on gc a few years back. Those are fine versions if you can tank control with a stick.

[spare meadow]

Its a good version but I think Dreamcast version is better

[lament escarp]

Nobody talks about how resi4 is actually only 288p on gc because of the letterbox format you can't disable.

[weak hill]

what do you mean by "tank controls"?

[little socket]

left/right to turn around the y-axis and up to move forward

[weak hill]

ahh ok, yes, that sucks, however we enjoyed that when playing those games at the time haha

[thorn quiver]

Actual tank controls are more like two analog axes, left and right tread

Just saying

And the only game to attempt that besides tank games was... Octodad

[gilded whale]

Certainly when you compare it to the game.com version

[sullen harbor]

Katamari?

[thorn quiver]

Maybe, I never played it

Early on, it was not at all obvious what control scheme would win out

It turned out Mario 64 had the right idea (screen relative controls)

[lament escarp]

Doesn't katamari pretty much control like that as well?

[thorn quiver]

Although you can argue it isn't so obvious in a game like RE where you switch angles

There, tank controls make more sense

[lament escarp]

A pabastien already mentioned that, nvm

I don't want to be rude but tank controls take like 5 minutes to get into and I don't see the problem tbh.

[turbid warren]

Tank controls are cool imo

Signalis has a tank control option and it felt right to choose that for an RE inspired game

[lament escarp]

Dunno on that. Since it has a static top down camera it feels unnecessary to have tank controls.

[gilded whale]

Who remembers tank controls in platformers? Croc, bubsy 3d, floating runner

[lament escarp]

But that game is... life changing. Like seriously wtf.

[drowsy lantern]

It’s a good game, and rescuing the Tribals isn’t that hard or long to do, but for some of them they were intentionally dickish about it. Placing some of them in a room near the very end of the level where they’re under hostage and if you don’t act quickly an ant will kill them, or in rooms where if you kill any of the enemies, the resulting explosion will kill the Tribals. This is absolutely evil. They also clearly wanted to stretch the game’s length and squeezing every ounce of the areas they built by forcing you to go through them multiple times as different characters. But other than that, it’s good! 😅

[zinc dew]

Yeah I honestly just need to git gud lol

Game really is pretty cool

[sullen harbor]

If I want multiple rom hacks to work on the core, do I have to add them to the database? (like having 3 different hacks of oot like redux, widescreen and beta)

[topaz otter]

yeah but that solid 30fps can't be beat

game is smooth as butter and doesn't hitch at all

[vapid hawk]

people did complain about that when it was new

the wii version is a whole 480p w/ anamorphic widescreen 🙂

and can be played with a gamecube controller if you don't like the wii controls

[languid dune]

Yep, the Wii version of RE4 is the definitive version of that game. It has all the benefits of the original GCN release, plus further improvements beyond that.

A shame that the HD remaster that's on all modern platforms is based on the inferior PS2 version.

[latent dagger]

Don't forget there's two different HD versions as well

[languid dune]

There's the VR version, and the mobile version as well. Not to mention the remake.

[vapid hawk]

VR is dope but it totally breaks the games balance

[cerulean elk]

Ooh autopatcher core eh?

[hearty oar]

I just like the Wii version due to how insanely easy it is with IR aiming, haha

[weary palm]

Dont forget Tomb Raider!

[gilded whale]

Or Blasto

[weary palm]

Had to Google Blasto.

Turning AND moving at the same time? What a concept. 😅

[spare meadow]

Seens like Nintendo, except for RE 1, Code Veronica and RE 3, has the definitive version of most of the RE game’s series 😀

[gilded whale]

Duke Nukem Time to kill

I think Tenchu was another really stiff one

[weary palm]

I remember trying to play Croc at a friend's house. Nope. I was much too used to SM64. 😅

[gilded whale]

That’s like my friend trying to go from re4 to re2 (the originals)

[languid dune]

Tried out the auto patcher, and yep it works perfectly!

[green epoch]

Excited for it to become part of the official mister build.

[topaz otter]

I actually own the original PC release, it was based off the PS2 version

its missing the gamecubes lighting engine and the cutscenes are pre-rendered instead of running in engine like on the gamecube

its ugly and doesn't even have mouse and keyboard support, and it uses an external program to configure a gamepad

on the other hand about a billion mods were made for the pc version that fix literally everything

with ENB lighting and texture mods and the widescreen fix, it looks really great, but yeah the HD remaster on steam is the superior version

[solemn marlin]

Goldeneye really looks much nicer on the pwm core. It's a very foggy game so all that is smoother

It looks like how I remember it tbh, 24 bit is what it used to be right? I tried googling but didn't quite understand if all games are doing 24 bit colors

[mossy vector]

no, it is rgb555 dithered. Then it is de-dithered to rgb888, and then vi does some other magic, and then output at rgb777

[solemn marlin]

So what, it's 16 bit with some dithering magic?

[vapid hawk]

basically all n64 games are iirc

the dithering magic is really good though

[zinc dew]

All the consoles of the era had a high resolution color bit depth mode with extremely limited application. Because of low memory most games ran at low color bit rates.

Removal of hardware dithering and compensating with higher color bit rate is an emulation cheat and not real world behavior. Which is a great convenience for modern displays.

[latent dagger]

it's all magic to me

[paper crescent]

I forgot Tiger also did that 99x handheld of Resident Evil 2. Probably just as bad as the game.com version, or worse.

[solemn marlin]

I'm in no way a purist, just kind of wondering how faithful the pwm core is to how it looked originally, if it invents stuff or if the method differs from how og hardware attained higher bit depths

[zinc dew]

I haven’t ever used a PWM core but I imagine it’s really accurate?

Just enables 24-bit output which will look way better when you turn off dithering

[storm vessel]

Is the PWM core the latest one or a custom one?

[latent dagger]

PWM is an offshoot of the one made by Robert (not to be confused with Robby) and it's maintained by Ruleset.

PWM is just a sort of hack to simulate 24bit color space on an 18bit output cuz the original analog board with VGA connector only can do 18bit

[solemn marlin]

You sure about the vi stuff? Is that a recommendation I've missed, that it looks better with dithering turned off? Or maybe the core does it automatically

[latent dagger]

it's "good enough" that people like it and prefer it over regular core and they don't feel like they have to buy new hardware right away to get real 24bit output

[zinc dew]

The dithering is a hardware “cheat” to simulate more color gradation than the console actually output. Because CRTs smoothed everything over your 15-bit color textures in the N64 end up looking richer. So when you’re forcing the core to output 24-bit, you can turn off dithering and not get any color banding.

[solemn marlin]

Yes it's a cheat but I assume it's from the original vi pipeline, I feel bad about about changing stuff from how it originally looked, at least for a first playthrough

[zinc dew]

yeah it’s from the original VI pipeline

The N64 was pretty advanced at the time. Several hardware level functions to really maximize its visuals for a CRT.

[latent dagger]

except the vaseline smear was a bit too strong perhaps.

[solemn marlin]

But I'll try it out and see if it's a nice look, yea that stuff has been one of my favorite things about this core

Just a clean look at all the added affects, the vaseline that defined a generation

[latent dagger]

I do like the texture filtering, I just don't like the anti aliasing cuz it's just too blurry

[zinc dew]

It’s really cool how all those options are exposed to pick and choose

Amazing core

[latent dagger]

ye. you can get even better results than an HDMI mod on an OG console

[zinc dew]

I really value physical mods and people using original hardware to play their games. That will never not be cool to me.

But yeah, boy am I glad I decided on a MiSTer instead of spending money on upgrading my PS1.

I was going to do N64 next too.

[solemn marlin]

I think it's cool because I've always seen pc and console gaming as different things and the n64 is the epitome of that

[zinc dew]

N64 is amazing. I own almost 200 games for it and several consoles lol

[solemn marlin]

No pc game could have that wacky vi pipeline and that's why I like seeing it all neatly laid out

Well, a pc game probably could, but I feel people would complain or mod it out

[latent dagger]

the texture filtering option on PSX alone makes it better than original hardware for me. the 2x core is just the cherry on top

[zinc dew]

That and the widescreen, so cool

Speaking of PC games, it really makes the PS1 feel like a late 90s pc game lol

[latent dagger]

the widescreen isn't as good as an emulator though. causes black textures and popin in a lot of games

I tried it for a bit just to see, and opted against using it personally

[solemn marlin]

Not sure if I could find 200 titles but still very happy with what's there.. also I am finding new games thanks to people here, so that's nice

That gauntlet game is surprisingly good

[latent dagger]

here we go talking about PSX in the N64 channel again.
so how about that Asteroids Hyper 64 game huh?

did you know you can get a secret unlock of the original arcade game in it?

[zinc dew]

That’s due to the game itself not the emulation. Games didn’t render outside the 4:3 view frustrum so any polygons that were completely outside the view were culled automatically.

[latent dagger]

pretty snazzy

[zinc dew]

Crash Bandicoot is an awesome example of that

[latent dagger]

Tomb Raider didn't want to play nice half the time

[zinc dew]

But also that implementation wasn’t hardware based and done via software so some games don’t have that issue. Like with Colin McRae Rally 2.0

[latent dagger]

I've legit never played any McRae/Dirt game prior to the first Dirt game on PC/360.

[zinc dew]

But yeah, to your point, it really varies from game to game.

[latent dagger]

I have played the Rally disc for GT2

[zinc dew]

I think McRae 2.0 was revelatory for the time.

[latent dagger]

Dirt 2 is my all time favorite one.

[zinc dew]

The whole package, great physical model, controls, graphics, content.

[zinc dew]

Yeah! Awesome series.

[latent dagger]

Dirt 3 and onward just don't hit the spot quite the same

Dirt 3 is still better than others though.
On PC it's a bit of a PITA cuz you gotta install the old Live Service thing, and then a patch to get around everything with Windows Live Games garbage.

I think you have to do the same with Dirt 2 as well

[zinc dew]

Online service requirements are such bullshit. We had to do Bethesda.net for DOOM Eternal which was the biggest piece of shit client.

Didn’t even support friends list multiplayer, god what a shit show lmao

[pliant pollen]

wish pwm would be added to the main cores

[latent dagger]

not even necessarily online service, just that you needed the program and all it's features which isn't a thing on Windows 8 and newer and getting it all installed and working just enough to trick the game into getting past the screen for it can be a chore

[zinc dew]

There’s an official hardware solution so not likely unfortunately.

[pliant pollen]

makes no sense to not add it when there are years and years of people who have the old hardware

and it's fine other than that

[zinc dew]

It’s a hobbyist project

[pliant pollen]

the work is already done

it's only not added because politics that make 0 actual sense

[latent dagger]

hasn't it already been established that PWM isn't a toggle and has to be baked in?

[zinc dew]

It’s not politics, whoever said that misled you

It’s a framework and perf reason. So the solution was done in hardware which is a better solution.

I’m sorry it’s negatively impacting you but the community is supporting it which is great.

It won’t be part of the official repo though.

This isn’t a consumer device, it’s done by people on their own free time and for free. They’re not beholden to anyone and you shouldn’t expect them to be.

[latent dagger]

my opinion is that it's not like it's hard to just download a PWM build and throw it onto the SD card and forget about it.
I already do core updates manually as it is as well as manually updating to unstable main all the time so no sweat off my back

[zinc dew]

It’s a hobbyist project and open source so anyone is free to modify as they see fit. But there should be zero expectations on what or what isn’t officially supported.

If there’s a compelling case that’s in-line with project expectations and makes sense to the owner of the project then it’ll be added. If there isn’t a compelling case then move on. Apologies if that sounds harsh but expectations need to be clear.

[latent dagger]

is there anything keeping Ruleset from having his own GitHub branch for PWM?
Cuz if not, he could get that going if he wants to and talk to the update_all script guy to get his repo added as an optional thing you can enable then updates to PWM core can just be pulled down with it

[zinc dew]

Shits for free yo

[zinc dew]

Yup that’s also a valid option

Update_all isn’t official

My bullshit wallpaper collection is in there for example lol

[latent dagger]

ye. as well as all the Jotego stuff

[zinc dew]

I think that’s a great idea personally, good thinking

[latent dagger]

seems like that would ultimately be the alternative solution for those who want those types of core builds and are using older analog boards but don't want to have to keep tabs on updates to manually do it.

[drowsy lantern]

I can confirm Jet Force Gemini can be played from start to finish on the core:

[zinc dew]

Awesome!

[storm vessel]

Does it work on HDMI and CRTs? Or only one?

[latent dagger]

it's not necessary for HDMI. HDMI supports higher bit depth than 24bit.
it was created to be used with the older analog board because it only can output 18bits

it simulates 24bit over the 18bit output

using Pulse Width Modulation (PWM)

oh I see what you're asking. It should work just fine if outputting to both

since the PWM part I believe isn't doing anything to the HDMI output since it's separate. only analog output

[storm vessel]

I only have a digital I/O board but I was considering getting an HDMI to analog converter box to use on CRTs occasionally.
Would my non-pro board be better to use a PWM build still in that case?

[iron dove]

directvideo supports 24bit, just the older analog boards that benefit from PWM

[storm vessel]

Is that in response to my inquiry? If so, can you explain a little more. (I don’t get it)

[atomic stratus]

@storm vessel if you have a digital I/O and want to use a CRT, you have to use an hdmi>vga adapter which uses direct video. The PWM build is unnecessary since direct video is already capable of 24-bit color, I believe

[storm vessel]

Just have to enable direct video for this?
And is there a quality difference in HDMI>VGA converters or are they more or less the same?

[atomic stratus]

yeah enable direct video and then possibly a couple additional things depending on what your final output is. As for the converter, I think some are better than others

I think I have a Rankie adapter which at least used to be a recommended one

[storm vessel]

Does that one have its own power? Most seem to have it but fewer don’t. Can’t seem to find any consensus on which is better.

[atomic stratus]

@storm vessel it does have a micro usb port for power, yeah

[latent dagger]

if it's an active adapter which it should be when converting from digital to analog, it needs power. external power is usually the go-to because you can't always rely on the system that is outputting via HDMI to supply enough power through the output and the HDMI cable to power an in-line converter.

[storm vessel]

Thanks 🙏

[worldly quartz]

so curious, anyone fully replaced their N64s with this core?

Thinking if I should store my N64 away since this one:

1. Deblurs better
2. Supports 4 no AA paks via snac
3. HDMI support
4. Games I care about work or have a patch
5. Turbo core has better performance

and the only thing my n64 does better is have everdrive's usb output/input for camera pics

[surreal bay]

Yes. I've replaced my console completely with this core. And camera pics?

[worldly quartz]

transferring from gameboy camera.
Basically:
PC->USB micro cable->Everdrive->homebrew->N64->Transfer Pak->Gameboy camera

but at this point, I already have alternate solutions, so don't need it

[broken cradle]

wait what on n64 used gameboys camera?

pikachu safari?

[worldly quartz]

it's more of a means of getting the pics

that are stored in the gameboy cartridge

[broken cradle]

well i mean like what games used that feature its a genuine question

i thought transfer pak was only really used in pokemon stadium

[worldly quartz]

I mean that's the main purpsoe of it

homebrew allows game ripping of GB roms and getting save files

[broken cradle]

ah

so it was to extract the game save

not pictures of the gameboy camera

cus i remember that thing and boy was them pictures bad even back then

[worldly quartz]

the pics are in the saves

they're a stylistic choice at this point

like you know there's a bit of charm in the 4 shades and low res

at least i'm not on the crazy side of attaching lenses and shit on the cart

Although I sometimes do the analog style of making colored pics using a filter and merging them in photoshop

[lament escarp]

The gc version is my favorite version tbh. I made a special rt4k profile for it so I can play it fullscreen on a modern tv.

[woven jackal]

Hey everyone. Looking at the pins it seems like we are at 100% compatibility with the core if you used patched roms. I assume this applies to 64DD software as well (just that some features are unusable). I could not find the old spreadsheet unfortunately.

Just an fyi, I am writing some documentation for the core, and may have a few more questions. Thank you all so much

[vapid hawk]

i'd wait a bit we're in the middle of integrating all the required patching into mister-main so nobody will have to even know about it

[woven jackal]

I will work on writing up about other features then.

[tulip pendant]

https://gameboycamera.com/#

[hidden bolt]

You are right, I probably should have done this a while ago. I made a repository for a custom entry in update_all. Add these lines to downloader.ini and run update_all, a folder 'ConsolePWM' will appear with the cores inside.

[Jokippo/MiSTer_PWM_Cores]
db_url = https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Jokippo/MiSTer_PWM_Cores/db/db.json.zip

[weary palm]

How much current can the user IO port deliver?

[zinc dew]

I’ve stopped using my real N64 half a year ago. Even in its previous buggy state this core was just ray more convenient and a better experience overall for me.

Now? It’s no contest, either through HDMI or analog this core is better than real hardware for me.

So my multiple N64 consoles and nearly 200 games are just shelf decorations now LOL

[broken creek]

I like to think that some day my son will appreciate my game cartridges the way I appreciate my father’s vinyl records.

The reality is he’ll probably look at my old games the way I view Atari 2600 (total shite!).

[zinc dew]

Yeah my kids aren’t too interested in what I’ve got. My game room and collections has just become like a show off piece for my kids when they have friends come over. I even have a script now where I go over cart sizes and how old the consoles are.

Neo Geo and the Vectrex are the usual favorites,

[mortal panther]

Same here. I made the switch months ago. There's simply no comparison. So many benefits and essentially no downsides to using the core over original hardware. Glad to finally check another system off the list.

[zinc dew]

Unlike you smart people I still leave my consoles hooked up lol

I just stop using them

[plush summit]

NEO GEO is like the most video game, video game system ever, its just so much to do in one library

[zinc dew]

I think it’s the cart sizes, joystick controller, and how good the games still look. It really stands out, even today.

[eternal ravine]

NG is good if you like certain genres

[vapid hawk]

its kind of the pinnacle of 2d consoles

[eternal ravine]

Great I mean

[zinc dew]

Vectrex stands out for obvious reasons. For my kids friends it’s just hilariously old with lines for everything being funny to them but the video output is still absolutely unlike anything else out there.

[vapid hawk]

shame it didn't see more adventure/rpg type games, everythings an arcade port so its pretty weak in a lot of genres

but if you like fighters and shmups oh boy

[eternal ravine]

Yep

Brawlers not so great
Some good puzzle games

A couple killer sports games

[vapid hawk]

1 racer i think?

[eternal ravine]

Oh yeah that's weak af on NG

[vapid hawk]

tbh racers before PSX are all kind of bad

[zinc dew]

1 really good top down racing games and a bunch of crap lol

[raw oriole]

Vectrex and Dreamcast (HDMI'd) are the only older machines I have hooked up/out, now. N64 and Saturn have been retired to boxes.

[zinc dew]

That’s smart. I am too lazy for that lol.

[arctic swift]

I've not tried the turbo core yet, but I noticed Mario Tennis slows down to almost unplayable when playing with four players. It's noticeably different than playing on the actual console

[raw oriole]

I ran out of space!

I wouldn't have bothered otherwise 😄

[broken creek]

I showed some friends a Neo Geo cart compared to the largest they knew (NES) and they were blown away. I think they were expecting like virtual reality level graphics when I played something and they were a bit underwhelmed when it “looked like Super Nintendo” according to them lol.

[zinc dew]

I do the usual comparison between a Switch cart and a Neo Geo cart and then point out how Switch games can be hundreds of times bigger.

[green epoch]

I wish I had bought a neo geo in the mid aughts when they were “cheap(er)”

[weary palm]

Well, it's not that much more impressive than an SNES to me either, tbh. Somewhere in between SNES and Saturn.

Don't kill me.

[arctic swift]

Not saying you're wrong, but the sprites and animations are pretty incredible all these years later. Metal Slug is still beautiful, imo

[vapid hawk]

strange, it's not like its splitscreen or anything i wouldn't expect it to be slower at all

[arctic swift]

I'm also unclear what's going on. I tried two different de10s with different RAM revisions and got slowdown with both. I accepted it as accurate jank N64 performance, but out of curiosity I hooked up my actual N64 and it was night and day different

Maybe anecdotal, but it seemed to perform worst with the flying characters, so maybe it has to do with their animations?

[vapid hawk]

is that with 4 usb pads or snac?

[arctic swift]

2x USB to dual N64 adapters

They use raphnet code

[vapid hawk]

hmm

could be a controller timings thing? not sure those were ever dialled in

if you play 4p but with 3 AI's is it fine?

[arctic swift]

No, that also caused slowdown. I'm not near the mister at the moment, but I'm happy to do some more systematic testing later

If my memory is accurate, it was also worse on particular court types

If anyone wants to try it out, pick boo and koopa paratroopa as two of the four characters

[weary palm]

Yeah Metal Slug is the pinnacle of pixel art.

380 sprites @ up to 16×512 pixels is quite the flex. Everything was sprites on that console, even the backgrounds.

[green epoch]

One of the wildest things about the mister is playing metal slug on it and seeing how badly it ran on neo geo hardware. I had been used to non-accurate emulation

[vapid hawk]

haha same

i always thought metal slug was basically impossible, but that was just emulators going too fast

with accurate slowdown its merely extremely hard

[green epoch]

Yeah. I thought my mister was busted because I was like “surely it didn’t run this badly in arcades”

C Y C L E A C C U R A T E

[turbid warren]

I love when the cycles are accurate

[gilded whale]

I have mgls set up for all the metal slugs pointing towards the overclocked neogeo cores

It makes metal slug 2 a much nicer experience, even better with metal slug 2 turbo

[weary palm]

It's a quarter-eater

[thorn quiver]

That's why having infinite coins is useful

[weary palm]

I've made a pull request now, guys and guysettes. https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/pull/916

oops. I spelled "compatibility" wrongski.

How embarassing

[green epoch]

we wont tell anyone

[weary perch]

been testing it, works very well

[weary palm]

fixed. 😉

[weary perch]

thanks yxkalle

[weary palm]

Everyone's very welcome.

[magic girder]

Hope sorg accepts it 🤞

[pliant valve]

How unfixable are these? If we got a faster DE10 someday would they be fixable?

[topaz otter]

My dad appreciated his own vinyl records by selling them all

but they weren't missed, nobody listened to them anyway

[weary palm]

I hope my son, 1.5y will look in awe when I bring out my pink AGS101

[quick arch]

@weary palm i have a question regarding Perfect Dark is it normal for player 1 a file tpak is created after loading the rom meanwhile we selected cpak on the OSD ? The tpak seems not well recognised by the game saying the cpak is not ok.

[mortal panther]

There is always the hope that someone else that I know will appreciate everything that I have spent so much time and effort into collecting and curating over the decades. It is sad to think that there is absolutely no guarantee that most of it won't eventually or immediately end up in a landfill some day after I'm gone... but when it's all said and done, all that really matters to me is that I appreciated it all while I was here and that it made me happy.

[wanton sun]

JFG should be easy to fix with a "safe latency, high bandwidth ram" on any sucessor board. For the games that needs pauses after RSP, it's unclear if this is just memory latency or more

[cold pollen]

voices too

[arctic swift]

Haha yeah, the German-inflected "rocket lownchurr" will live rent-free in my head forever

[cold pollen]

it's amazing lol

[vapid hawk]

haha i always hear it as "Rocket Lawn Chair"

[arctic swift]

Haha agreed. Neo Geo games had so much character

[arctic swift]

Absolutely

Which ironically seems exactly like the type of vehicle you might see in a metal Slug game. Lawn chair with balloons tied to it and rockets strapped to the bottom

[broken creek]

Damn this hits hard lol. Going through my father’s things when he passed, so much of his treasure was just trash.

[weary palm]

I'm not following. That game only uses transfer pak in conjunction with pd for gbc to unlock some cheats. Is that mapper implemented? I think it's MBC5

[quick arch]

sorry i made a mistake it is the cpak is not recognized the game said the cpak is invalid

[weary palm]

ah ok

[quick arch]

if I removed tpak of db the cpak is created on player 1 and it is correctly recognized by the game

[weary palm]

@quick arch I see what you're saying. having a tpak tag in db seems to hinder a cpak file to be created.

perhaps a bug

[quick arch]

so normally we will have two files and we can move from one to another depending the selection on the OSD

[weary palm]

it's not a bug, actually. There's just this thing where the core share this memory segment for both p1 cpak and p1 tpak. If we have both turned "on" in System settings, tpak is going to take priority.

If MBC5 isn't implemented, I think we should remove the tpak tag from this game in db

perhaps someone can help me find those unneccessary tags

[weary perch]

i think all it does is look for perfect dark gbc in the tpak and then unlocks some cheats - don't think it even needs mbc5, because that part already works on the existing core

[weary palm]

ah, ok.

seems like something, at least I, could live without.

[weary perch]

you could probably still do it even if tpak wasn't in the db, tho, no?

does tpak get grayed out/disabled?

[weary palm]

yes, if you turn the option on i System settings manually

[weary perch]

so it's probably honestly best to have it off. it's a one-time flag thing so you probably don't need the game defaulting to tpak at the very least

is there a hierarchy in the db?

if it defaulted to rumble that would probably be the most sensible for that game

cpak is pretty optional

[vapid hawk]

the perfect dark GBC game is terrible, incase anyone was wondering

[weary perch]

big sprite tho 🙂

[vapid hawk]

i played it so you don't have to

[weary perch]

i feel like the sprite being so large is at a huge detriment to the game lmao

[vapid hawk]

yeah rumble is best default for PD imo

[weary palm]

games that has battery save i've prioritized rpak over cpak

[quick arch]

yes cpak is pretty optional but there is error on CPAK on the game and it is kind difficult to understand why the cpak is not ok

[weary palm]

if it lacks battery, cpak is more important

[weary perch]

well i think most non-cpak saving games on N64 use something other than battery but yes

eeprom and such

any game without on-cart saves should default to rumble

[weary palm]

there are a handful of games that has both cpak and tpak tags. those can be problematic.

[weary perch]

pokemon stadium games, mario tennis, mario golf seem to be the ones with the most extensive tpak stuff, yeah? nearly everything else is like - look for game in the tpak -> unlock something, more or less

[quick arch]

Choro Q could also interresting for tpak but didn't try it
This game have cpak and tpak and no issue with the core, cpak is recognised
Just with Perfect Dark have cpak issue

[weary perch]

interesting

how to reproduce the issue?

[quick arch]

just launch the game Perfect dark and check cpak on settings

and you will see error saying cpak is not ok

[weary perch]

by default, PD has the tpak enabled?

or is this with CPAK set

[quick arch]

for Player 1, tpak file is created and on OSD CPAK is selected

[weary perch]

i see

[quick arch]

in this case we have error on CPAK in settings of the game

[weary perch]

i would need to check (re: other games) but i think PD definitely does not need a tpak file created

maybe there could be two different tpak settings in the db

[weary palm]

Choro Q 64 II - Hacha Mecha Grand Prix Race ControllerTest GoldenEye - X Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakyuu 2000 Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakyuu 6 Nushi Tsuri 64 Nushi Zuri 64 PD Ultraman Battle Collection 64 Perfect Dark Perfect Dark (Debug Version) Super B-Daman: Battle Phoenix 64 Super Robot Taisen 64

Nushi Tsuri 64 twice for some reason

are any of these a worse game without tpak on by default? 😉

[quick arch]

Choro Q 64 II - Hacha Mecha Grand Prix Race -> CPAK is correctly recognised so maybe no need to remove for this one

ControllerTest it could be usefull for testing

[weary palm]

In Choro Q 2

With tpak on

[quick arch]

and with cpak on ?

I didn't try tpak on

[weary palm]

Sorry. This is the error I get. It tries to read a gameboy save game (tpak) as a cpak.

🤣

[weary perch]

i believe there are only a few games that have any need to address the save game, maybe most of those could just ignore the gbc save

[weary palm]

And without tpak

tpak and cpak will always clash in the current core implementation.

So we should probably just choose one or the other for these games.

[quick arch]

so maybe we can create an issue no ?

[weary perch]

outside of all the Pokemon Stadium, Mario Tennis, & Mario Golf games, potentially only these 3 have anything happen with the GBC save:

• Puyo Puyo~n Party
• Robot Ponkottsu 64
• Super Robot Wars 64

i don't think any of the other tpak games care about your gbc save file at all

[weary palm]

Only robot wars have cpak support, right

[weary perch]

looks like it from your list

[weary palm]

Yeah, create an issue or make a pull request to N64-database.

[weary perch]

that one is the same support as JP Beast Wars, i don't think it cares about save at all

just wants either any pak, or the specific pak for two different flags to be set respectively

[weary palm]

I will not look into this today, but great that you noticed it.

[weary perch]

so hypothetically the only game that needs both GBC save support and TPAK support is Super Robot Taisen 64

+CPAK

[weary palm]

That's great

[weary perch]

i believe only these titles ~~need ~~ modify the GBC save:

• Mario Golf
• Mario Tennis
• Pocket Monsters Stadium
• Pokemon Stadium 1
• Pokemon Stadium 2
• Puyo Puyo~n Party
• Robot Ponkottsu 64
• Super Robot Wars 64

[weary palm]

Perhaps I can refine the logic inside mister main somewhat.

I will need to think about it

[quick arch]

thank you 🙂

[weary palm]

Thinking is hard.

That's me, cosplaying as Xi Jinping

[weary perch]

OK, so this list is games that might modify the GBC save. here's a list of games that read the save at all:

• Jikkyō Powerful Pro Yakyū 6
• Jikkyō Powerful Pro Yakyū 2000
• Mario Artist: Paint Studio
• Mario Artist: Talent Studio
• Mario Golf
• Mario Tennis
• Nushi Tsuri 64
• Nushi Tsuri 64: Shiokaze Ninotte
• Pocket Monsters Stadium
• Pokemon Stadium
• Pokemon Stadium 2
• Puyo Puyo~n Party
• Robot Ponkottsu 64: Nanatsu no Umi no Caramel
• Super B-Daman: Battle Phoenix 64
• Super Robot Wars 64

[zenith orchid]

I wonder if the compatibility graph is still being updated

[weary perch]

i did just update my issues / workarounds sheet today. added a column to indicate which issues have fixes now, and what type of workaround (patch / turbo / regional variant)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HiL-vHgpL5Wj0iv88EGtMYcmcf9sml35W3sQgRPz2wU/edit?usp=sharing

[wanton sun]

the issue is the sdram mapping...currently it's fully static. To support all combinations, it would require a dynamic mapping or leave out 32mbyte sdram entirely

in theory the GB cart RAM can be quite a lot, but i guess most games don't use that much

maybe it's no big deal at all, as currently multiple tpaks aren't supported anyway

so tpak could have it's own memory space

so if we really would want to tackle this, the HPS part would also need a change. Currently there is no information for HPS which data is going to be saved, so it depends on the current settings. Better would be that the HPS controls this and tells the core what to send next (cpak 1, 2,3,4 or tpak) and then the core only sends one at a time

HPS knows which save types are there for each game, so it should be possible. But still a lot of work for what we get

[spare meadow]

This Mario Tennis Slowdown issue has been confirmed? Unfortunately I don’t have 4 controllers to test myself 😂

[weary perch]

i haven't tested it yet

that's why it's on the unverified page

i might be able to test it in a little bit

tho i don't think you need 4 controllers to test it

they said it happens with AI as well

[vapid hawk]

they mentioned some specific characters that seem to make it worse too

[arctic swift]

I just loaded up both the MiSTer and N64. Exhibition match controlling boo, with paratroopa (AI) as partner vs mario (AI) and luigi (AI). Blue composition court. It chugs very heavily on MiSTer without any noticeable slowdown on N64

I ran update_all, so I assume I'm on latest N64 core. Stock, non-turbo

[atomic stratus]

@arctic swift I thiiiink there might be a newer unstable core release that isn’t on update_all yet (could be wrong)? That said, I doubt that issue is fixed even on latest unstable

[spare meadow]

O think this Mario Tennis issue isn’t on github yet. If anyone could open an issue there, it’d be important for tracking. Unfortunately my English isn’t good enough for that😂

[weary perch]

what does "chugs very heavily" mean?

if you turn on the FPS display, what does it read?

[arctic swift]

Slows way down. How do you turn the FPS overlay on?

[weary perch]

it's in one of the submenus, maybe the Video & Audio Options or whatever it's called

down near the bottom

[arctic swift]

Okay, thank you. I'll check shortly

[weary perch]

i saw slowdown on MiSTer but i haven't checked against hardware

it wasn't like unplayable or anything

20-25 FPS generally

it also didn't make any difference if i used paratroopa/boo or not

same FPS

it gets a little lower, as low as 16, i saw once, during replays

generally 20-30 during gameplay

if hardware is holding 30 FPS thru all that then maybe i can corroborate

if you're seeing something other than that maybe i can't lol

[arctic swift]

I just tried it out with the overlay and my experience was much like yours. You're correct, I didn't see any difference using any particular characters. FPS hovered in the low to mid 20s and dipped to high teens during replay

I don't know how to measure FPS on the actual hardware N64, but playing on MiSTer is like playing in slow motion in comparison

[weary perch]

yeah so maybe hardware is closer to 30 FPS there

i can make a video from hardware, give me a few minutes to record and upload

[arctic swift]

No rush, I appreciate you looking into it. I've seen old forum posts about it being difficult to emulate because of the trailing effects, but haven't been able to find a lot of discussion from people playing it on Robert's MiSTer core

[weary perch]

seems pretty rock solid 30 FPS on hardware

core definitely runs slower

maybe it drops sometimes but when you see the spinning ball sprite up close in the replays it looks smooth and 30 FPS

and the feel is just notably faster

[arctic swift]

It's good to hear you corroborate that. I felt like I was maybe making something of nothing. I agree that it feels much faster and more consistent on hardware

[weary perch]

probably still processing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9atsX2_J1g

yeah it drops a few frames during close up effects/trails

but by and large it is 30 FPS

[arctic swift]

Yeah, your video looks as expected to me

Some hiccups, but not many that I notice during gameplay

[weary perch]

i frame advanced through a bit of gameplay

there are some framedrops only at specific points - the first framedrop is when boo returns and hits luigi in the face, causing kind of a simultaneous particle/effect thing

the game drops a few frames there and then goes right back to 30 afterward

definitely not like the core where it starts out at 25 and then gets lower during stuff like that

[arctic swift]

Glad you were able to confirm. Hopefully it's helpful information for Robert

I would be very happy to pack up my N64, but I happen to really enjoy Mario Tennis with friends and noticed the non-turbo core seems to struggle. The handful of other games I tried felt near-perfect to me

[compact depot]

Doesn’t Mario Tennis slow down on real hardware?

[arctic swift]

Some, but it seems much faster and more consistent on real hardware. Maybe meauxdal can be persuaded to upload a MiSTer gameplay capture for comparison

[weary perch]

my mister is in the living room and not connected to a capture card, but if you boot up the game and play an exhibition in doubles you'll see how it is

hardware largely maintains 30 FPS, the core mostly hangs out in the low 20s

[spare meadow]

Same behavior using turbo core?

[weary perch]

there are few little moments where it drops frames during gameplay, and it does drop below 30 during replays sometimes, but by and large the game runs relatively smoothly at 30 FPS on hardware

well, basically it drops below 30 on every replay in doubles, but not nearly as low as the core

[arctic swift]

I haven't tried turbo. Is it necessary in order to get some games running at full speed? I haven't been following development closely lately

[weary perch]

which gets down to 16 FPS during replays in doubles

generally no

most games run faster on the core than hardware

but Mario Tennis is a bit unique

it's one of the TLB games for one thing

[spare meadow]

In some cases, using the turbo core can be a workaround for some games issues.

[weary perch]

killer instinct has a few moments that run slower on the core than on hardware, and that's also a TLB game

so hypothetically that may have something to do with it

nearly every other example is something that runs faster on the core than on hardware

with all the attract modes which run a bit too fast/desync/etc.

[arctic swift]

Gotcha. Maybe the turbo brings it closer to original hardware performance

[arctic swift]

I remember reading about TLB being implemented and it fixing many games. I didn't realize there were still inconsistencies related to the buffer

I'll beat the dead horse of saying how impressed and appreciative I am of Robert's work. I don't mean to criticize it, just hoping any bug information can help make the core even better

I tried the turbo core for a few minutes and Mario Tennis is snappy. Mostly stays at 30fps and dips a little to the high 20s

[jolly turret]

RE2 also has slowdowns, especially with multiple zombies on the screen, such as in the first few moments of the Leon or Claire A scenario, which are not present to such degree or at all with the console. However the turbo core has no issues at all to play it at full speed without any slowdowns.

I assume these situations might be some of the cases where the turbo core is needed to reach full speed without slowdowns, as we all know the core couldn't reach full completion due to the hardware limitations of the Mister. I feel these are very minor issues and easily worked around by using the turbo core instead.

I'm now just awaiting the new stable core and turbo core release including pwm variants. 😁

Actually I compared multiple games with the regular and turbo core. So far I haven't encountered a single issue with the turbo core, so in my opinion it might be the better choice by default.

[arctic swift]

I'm very content to use the turbo core where it makes sense. As long as the game feels like it does on hardware, I'm happy

[arctic swift]

That's helpful feedback. I wondered if there would be many unnatural speed-up issues

[jolly turret]

With the PSX2X core I have however encountered some issues where some games would hang up while loading into the main menu or game, so for that system there are more situations where it's required to switch to the regular core instead.

[weary perch]

curious if turbo helps with the KI slowdowns

[arctic swift]

I've only played on the stock PSX core and found it to feel pretty much perfect relative to hardware. I've only played a tiny fraction of the catalogue, though

[jolly turret]

If we are being perfectly accurate, none of the cores are entirely identical to the performance of the N64. The regular core runs slightly faster than the original console with some occasional slowdowns with some games, where as the turbo core is like an overclocked console. In my opinion the turbo core just feels more superior due to the more fluid performance, but that's a personal choice for everyone to make themselves and might even vary on a game by game basis.

[arctic swift]

Makes sense. I'm not trying to get into speedrunning, just happy to have an N64 lumped in with every other incredible console and arcade board on the MiSTer

[jolly turret]

I haven't played my PSX consoles in a long time, they are currrently still both defect, but based on memory the PSX core feels entirely identical to the console. It's absolutely perfect. Since some of the PSX games even had bad frame rates on the console, I prefer the turbo core here as well, but I switch back and forth between them on a game by game basis.

[weary perch]

i do speedrunning but honestly i only use the real console for speedrunning and recording comparison videos for mister now 🙂

mister is super convenient and flexible

the image is perfect and very customizable, you can use any controller, you can easily manage your save files, performance with the turbo core is better than console, etc.

[jolly turret]

For example sometimes I prefer playing Need for Speed III with the turbo core, and when feeling overly nostalgic I actually like to switch it to the regular core for that authentic experience with a lower frame rate. Just totally depends on my mood and I think it's great to have these options.

A clear case where I strongly prefer the turbo core is with FF VIII, specially the PAL version, which feels like it has frame rate of 15fps while in battle. I wouldn't be able to play it like that and enojy it much anymore.

[arctic swift]

Fully agree. I'm all for accuracy and realism, but I would never look at the bonus performance of a turbo core as a detracting factor

[spare meadow]

Yes, it does. No slowdown using the Turbo core

[weary perch]

thank you

[spare meadow]

The funny thing about RE 2 slowdowns is that it only happens at he beginning of the game, the second and third screen and 2 screens before arrival at the police station. None slowdowns after that

[spare meadow]

Cool! It think it would the interesting for future reference and tracking to open a github issue report about this issue with Mario Tennis using the vanilla core

[atomic stratus]

Is there a list somewhere of games that still have issues in the standard core that don’t in the Turbo core? Sounds like I might need to make a few MRAs

[latent dagger]

You mean MRLs?

[atomic stratus]

no, I mean MRA files I meant MGLs 🫠

[latent dagger]

[atomic stratus]

to just launch the game using the turbo core

[elfin relic]

MGL for doing stuff with the console/computer cores, MRAs for the arcade stuff, I believe

[latent dagger]

That's what I was thinking of

[atomic stratus]

oh is there a difference? Maybe I forgot about the other format…I know ao486 uses mra mgl files and that’s what I’m used to

oh wait yeah

🤦‍♂️

yep, MGL is what I meant

[elfin relic]

three letter M abbreviation

[atomic stratus]

I’ve had a few beers today, don’t mind me

[latent dagger]

#general-banter message

Here's a link

[atomic stratus]

nah I know how to do them I just messed up the extension name, but thanks!

[weary perch]

it's on my spreadsheet, but i think this is all of em:

Games with issues bypassed by the turbo core:

• Iggy's Reckin' Balls / Iggy-kun no Bura Bura Poyon (USA + Japan)
• Killer Instinct (USA)
• Mario Tennis (USA + Europe + Japan)
• Pro Mahjong Kiwame 64 (Japan)
• Resident Evil 2 / Biohazard 2 (USA + Europe + Japan)
• Wonder Project J2 - Koruro no Mori no Jozet (Japan)

i would also highly recommend turbo core for certain games e.g. Starcraft 64, GT 64, Re-Volt, Roadsters

it eliminates framedrops in games like Smash

and makes games like Perfect Dark and GE007 significantly smoother at times

it's a massive help for some of the "hi-res" modes too

many of them are nigh-unplayable on hardware

[atomic stratus]

Nice! I’m playing Goldeneye right now, maybe I’ll try loading it there next time to see

[weary perch]

here's a fun one

you get can Beetle Adventure Racing running pretty close to 60 FPS if you use a combination of

turbo core + turn off music + first-person view + use the "good framerate mode" from the debug menu

the physics get kinda borked (jump height is way lower than usual) but it's really fun to see it run so well

[solemn marlin]

I'd like to talk to the guy who has a comprehensive overview of the psx library and call him a nerd. Isn't it like almost 8000 games? Also probably ask for some of those japan exclusive hidden gems

I'd honestly be more interested in a list of games negatively impacted by the turbo core, right now I always default to it because it just seems better overall

[wanton sun]

The TLB lookup path is slower than real hardware and that is known. The reason is that the hardware can compare all 32 TLB entries in a single cycle, so e.g. datacache can be read and written in a single cycle.
In the core this would be way to much for the cyclone 5 to handle and CPU clock speed would drop significantly.
Therefore I'm using a trick:

• the TLB instruction path uses a 2 (out of 32) entry cache on the core and on real hardware, so with a match speed is the same
• the TLB data path uses a 4 entry cache. So this can be slower if 4 is not enough. (for some games it is, for some not)
• when some access is outside the cache, real hardware can lookup in 1 cycle. In the core we lookup only 1 entry per cycle, but with a heuristic that averages to about 4 cycles for the games i tested, but can be up to 32 cycles
  tldr: TLB access on the core can be as fast as real hardware for games that don't use it heavily, but on others it can be significantly slower.
  Considering I wasn't sure i could implement TLB at all in this speed and with full logic accuracy, I'm happy with the result, but yes, TLB timing can be far from original

The turbo core doesn't speed up those TLB accesses, but of course it makes the CPU faster overall, so this probably more than compensates if maximum speed or stable fps is the only concern.

[worn delta]

Would a more powerful successor board potentially allow for a different implementation of TLB closer to how it works on original hardware?

[worldly quartz]

Probably assuming it has space

[wanton sun]

every modern FPGA(Ultrascale or Agilex) that is large enough could run the cpu without issues at original speed and full accuracy. And a turbo core at even higher speed. But unfortunatly the community is stuck on low cost hardware from 2011 😅

[quick arch]

we like old thing also in FPGA 🙂

[jolly turret]

What would it take to kick things off using a new FPGA? Someone has to do it eventually. And when it happens, can the existing work be ported to the new FPGA?

[chilly ember]

Unforunately the community is stuck on poverty hardware from 2011 because it wasn't provided by their employer

such shame

Let's start a patreon to provide the low value clients with high value fpga's

5 grand usd and we'll be looking at about 6 active users

[solemn marlin]

God bless the turbo core but also a curse on TLB

I'd love a perfect core but I assume there are more considerations than that for a board upgrade

[chilly ember]

https://media.tenor.com/y8CryXmwdqQAAAAM/dr-austin.gif

[solemn marlin]

Average mister enjoyer low-balling his game machine purchase ^

[chilly ember]

I haven't plugged in my poverty hardware in for 4 months aka MISTer

[solemn marlin]

I think the hardware is pretty on-point for what's feasible from a dev standpoint, at least from what I gather

Not quite all the way with n64 but still, it becomes a whole new operation with the generation following the n64 and psx

[chilly ember]

I love yea but we don't all have FPGA boards laying around

[solemn marlin]

It's a business motivated decision ultimately, right? What's feasible to ship with profit, what developers are ready to work with. Like, there wouldn't be a point of having an fpga board that could do ps2 since there wouldn't be resources for the dev team required for the core

At least that's how I understood it

[weak hill]

so there might be a modern fpga that only rich people can buy, and they have hired you cause your the only one that can make it happen =p

[chilly ember]

Fpgazumspass PS2 core confirmed

[solemn marlin]

Final funding goal for mars fpga reached, they shrunk robert to the size of an atom so now he can wander the dreamcast circuit board like an ancient explorer, writing a map for cycle accurate dreamcast emulation

[latent dagger]

aren't we supposed to keep talk about other FPGA platforms to #fpga-platforms

[solemn marlin]

Sry you're right, it gets a bit heated when the current board makes something difficult for the n64 core

[wanton sun]

i wouldn't so much talk about newer consoles, but instead have the possibility to get 5th gen more accurate and also add other stuff. e.g. N64 is still missing savestate saving, PSX could get perspective correction, 480p rendering for all games, higher speed turbo modes... these kind of things.
All that is reasonable effort compared to a 6th gen core 😉

And the price...the issue is not the FPGA. Modern FPGA are not really more expensive, maybe 50-100$ if you want more size also. The main problem is that there is no off-the-shelf board like the de10-nano is

[solemn marlin]

I'd love all that, even better turbo cores/modes especially. If there is a board upgrade, I'm on board (lol) but is there a discussion about it that's possible to follow or is it strictly behind the scenes?

Well I guess there's the talk about the DE25 Nano

[lament escarp]

All this talk about a new board seems insane to me with the de10 already being so perfect.

[worldly quartz]

Doesn't help de10 nano clone boards exist too

So it seems like it's time for more people to jump in than get the more expensive boards

[uncut gyro]

What about PSP? or DS? Is 166mhz within reach?

[latent dagger]

PSP is a mixed bag of sorts. Even with a slightly more powerful FPGA it's 64bit architecture is still a bit too complex I think

It's not necessarily just about how dumb the graphics are in the games

[worldly quartz]

Wonder how much a stripped down ds can run

[latent dagger]

I think DS might be doable

[vapid hawk]

DS has an insane memory setup iirc

[worldly quartz]

Probably better to just develop a pocketstation core

Or a vmu core lol

Probably more realistic

[vapid hawk]

someone said they were going to do a VMU core, i wonder what happened to them

[worldly quartz]

Although are there roms for them? Like they're more memory card data

[latent dagger]

Same thing that happened to the guy who built a car that could run on water in the 70s

[vapid hawk]

games would upload little roms onto your vmu for you to play

someones dumped them all no doubt

[worldly quartz]

I guess snac could theoretically work for ps1

[vapid hawk]

yeah someone did that it works

[latent dagger]

No theoretical about it lol

If it worked being plugged into a PS1 it should work on the core

[worldly quartz]

At least pinwise, vmu should work
It only needs 4 data pins

Although now making a converter from dc controller to snac would be interesting

[latent dagger]

You mean building a standalone adapter for the vmu so you don't have to use an OEM controller?

[worldly quartz]

More like you effectively plug the mister as a vmu to receive data

[latent dagger]

Oh, turning the mister itself into a vmu

[worldly quartz]

Just to play those power stone games

[vapid hawk]

thats so incredibly niche an idea... but i'd use that lol

[worldly quartz]

Would be afun project to do one for the n64 though

Like mempak core

[vapid hawk]

the dreamcast didn't have to be on for you to play the games, once they were uploaded you could remove the vmu and play them standalone

[latent dagger]

Cuz watch batteries

It was no different than a tiger keychain game unit at that point.
Or like a tomagatchi

[magic girder]

beeps

[vapid hawk]

the people who make MemCardPro for PSX/PS2/GC are doing VmuPro for dreamcast right now though

so it would soon be redundant

[tulip pendant]

there is also a VMU2 (or something like that) I watched on kickstarter for a while

think its out now

[thorn quiver]

Right now we mostly rely on singular wizard developers coming in and implementing a particular core. Some collab happens but it's fairly limited compared to FOSS software projects.

I do not think the DE-10 itself is "exhausted" yet.

What will help it live on, and what I hope will happen, is more people working on the cores to optimize them to fit better. I'm sure there are more clever ways to do things that we don't consider possible right now. The N64 core itself is evidence of *more being possible. It needed the right idea.

And more brains involved will help. I just hope we don't become complacent and rely on "falling stars" and act only like consumers

[wanton sun]

modern low end FPGAs are 2-3 times faster. Considering the n64 core would run at 50-60mhz or so when every trick was removed, it will be tough. I wouldn't bet on PSP. DS would run on the de10-nano already if there was enough internal memory. Maybe space would also be critical, but should be possible

[thorn quiver]

Clock speed is a hard limit I guess.

I mean there's no workaround.

[wanton sun]

I mean, modern FPGA optimized softcores run above 500Mhz on 100€ FPGAs, but to have accurate implementations, you cannot optimize for the FPGA but instead have to rebuilt the original architecture

[thorn quiver]

Right, gate level accuracy can only be done in a limited number of ways I guess.

[wanton sun]

for things like x86, where the exact timing doesn't matter, it would be a dream. For a console that doesn't work

[thorn quiver]

But I mean, the more modern the system, the more hw revs/costdown versions there were.. with potentially their own variance

An Atari 2600 is a perfect specimen for super accuracy, but a PSP probably not

Right?

[wanton sun]

Yes, but you will still have some games that depend on either of this revisions. PSX has already shown this

Unlike most emulator users, typical MiSTer users are not happy with 99% 😅

[thorn quiver]

Oh I'm sure 99% is fine, but 98% isn't 🙂

[wanton sun]

to some degree this is also a curse for every developer: you often start from scratch working on a system and users expect it to exceed software emulation quality in the end(that has many many years of headstart). Thankfully the community here has always been great and also accepts this to be a progress

[thorn quiver]

Yeah

Don't let negative feedback get to you. 🙂 You're doing great work, and part of inspiring me to learn HDLs.

[vapid hawk]

i still can't believe i bought mister to play genesis and snes and didn't really expect anything further

[thorn quiver]

Imagine the Atari ST people who started the MiST 😛

[vapid hawk]

when rob popped up with the gba core out of seemingly no-where it blew my mind

[thorn quiver]

You threw me for a loop there, i was thinking of @zinc dew

[vapid hawk]

i've still never really got the hang of typing fpgazumspass 🙂

[thorn quiver]

fpga4fun

But in German

[lament escarp]

Yeah if Robby were to show up with a core it would probably be malware.

[green epoch]

I wish someone would pick up the jaguar core again. But I imagine that the biggest problem there is that 8bitdo doesn’t sell a controller (yet)

[thorn quiver]

The best controller would be a phone

A feature phone

[zinc dew]

The biggest problem is lack of interest

I’m not trolling, that’s really it

[green epoch]

I know, I kid :). I wish I knew enough to take on either that or a 3do project. one of the things I love about the mister is playing the stuff I coveted as a kid (like Neogeo and amiga). And sure, I could do that on emulators, but I’d prefer to just have it in my existing setup (and C Y C L E A C C U R A T E)

[zinc dew]

Yeah it would be cool, there’s fun Jaguar games

[green epoch]

Yep. AVP is not a wonderful game, but Alien is my favorite thing, and I played the crap out of it at a friends house. There are others too. I have a sealed Jaguar somewhere in storage that I got on clearance at toys r us way back when. No games for it though

[mortal panther]

There was lack of interest when the console was new. 😉

[green epoch]

God, it only sold ~250,000 units

the 32x sold more than 3x that

CDI sold 400k. AES sold 1.18m. trying to find something that sold less than it (that wasn’t the jaguar CD or something :p)

aha! the CDX sold less

gotem

[marble cargo]

I think the PC-FX sold less too.

[weary perch]

biggest issues left with no workarounds:

• Blues Brothers 2000 likely not completable with 2nd chase unpatched
• Disney DDR audio/video offset
• CPak issues (mainly that Waialae can't save; Rush series also has issues)
• Exploding polygons in Madden (and Wipeout 64) - FPU bug?

there are a few other games that still randomly crash (Iggy NTSC, Tonic Trouble PAL, Wipeout PAL) but they all have at least one regional variant that works

the list of (minor) no-workaround issues beyond that, excluding all the "attract mode runs too fast":

• RE2 glitchy texture issue (very minor)
• MLB ft. Ken Griffey Jr title screen flicker
• Monster Truck Madness text bug
• Duck Dodgers cutscene a/v desync
• Zelda OoT & MM progressive a/v desync in the longer cutscenes

there's almost nothing left now that isn't super-trivial

[turbid warren]

sounds like the N64 core is in pretty good shape

[zinc dew]

Thanks for being such a badass!

[green epoch]

remarkable for an "impossible" core

[worn delta]

Don't forget Safety Dance graphical issues 😉

Incredible state for the core now, amazing how solid an emulator is despite hitting up against these technical limitations on the board

[turbid warren]

wild how n64 went from "impossible core" to "probably one of the best emulator options for n64"

[zinc dew]

I think it’s the best IMO

there’s zero fiddling required, it just works

[turbid warren]

i also think it's the best but if someone were to come up to me and go "well ares is free" i wouldn't really have an argument against them lmao

[worn delta]

You still need a computer to run Ares on, presumably a fairly good one. Does it run on a Mac?

[turbid warren]

true facts

"i like project 64" oh you fool. you sweet sweet fool who i just made up as a strawman

[green epoch]

ULTRAHLE

[turbid warren]

but yeah, hard pressed to think of a software emulator for N64 that's better than mister currently

[worn delta]

Long gone are the days when every house had a fairly modern personal computer in it you could run what you wanted on it. These days it seems the majority of homes don't, and people use phones and tables primarily and a lot have a locked down work laptop, and many have a Mac which many things won't run on.

I am not sure I have anything that could run Ares and it would likely cost me a fair bit to get a machine that could

[green epoch]

is ares more compatible than the mister core?

[worn delta]

Define compatible

[zinc dew]

Yeah true LOL

[drowsy lantern]

I know it’s always more exciting for devs to work on new projects, but I love when devs take the time to polish and improve what is already there. There is great value in it, despite what it might seem. I’ll be hopeful that someone will be brave enough to rewrite the SNES core to support save states, for example. 🤞🏻

[weary perch]

@jolly turret sorry to bother, but could you make an audio recording of Flying Dragon on the MiSTer core? I am going to record a comparison from real NTSC hardware and i would love if you could compare them and see if there's any meaningful difference. i think the core might be close to hardware-accurate on this game now, but the audio still sounds a little weird in isolation. it was one of the games that previously popped/clicked before the audio fixes

i think there's an attract mode that shows various stuff so i'll probably just let it run for my video

i think what i'm hearing on the core is just the audio fifo running dry such that it kind of sounds like channel dropouts; it presumably should actually be close to hardware-accurate, but i still want to do a sanity check

Flying Dragon and SD Hiryuu no Ken Densetsu both seem to have the same audio symptoms (the latter is the JP-only sequel thing)

[weak hill]

didnt know Oot desync issue, new for me

[weak hill]

i think someone also mentioned mario tennis slow down, i dont know if that counts

[marble cargo]

I think the Rayman 2 random save screen crash still happens. I haven't tested it out in a while though.

[weary perch]

mario tennis slowdown seems to be mitigated with turbo core is why that isn't listed above

i hadn't seen the rayman thing, or saw it once and forgot about it

i'll try and test that later

crashes eventually if left on save file select?

NTSC/PAL/both?

[marble cargo]

The tl;dr is that sometimes after you beat a level in Rayman 2, the save screen that normally pops up may fail to load and crash the game. I've noticed that it gets more common the later it gets into the game.

[weary perch]

ahh, thank you

i vaguely recall seeing an earlier post you made about this

i don't think too many folks have been playing deep into rayman 2 on the core lol

NTSC i'm guessing?

[marble cargo]

Yeah the NTSC-U version. Not sure about PAL.

[weary perch]

thank you

Tonic Trouble (same developer) crashes in PAL randomly but doesn't seem to do so in NTSC so it may be relevant

[weary perch]

could you share your Rayman 2 save file?

[marble cargo]

I'm at work at the moment, so you'll have to wait a bit.

[weary perch]

no rush

i'm also at work until much later

[zenith notch]

Need to add as a GitHub report but both of the T&E golf games have very broken shadows under the course trees, not seen that mentioned before.

[orchid nimbus]

@zenith notch god I hate T&E soft

[zenith notch]

I’ve always had a soft spot for their golf games.

[atomic stratus]

a T&E Soft Spot, you might say

[orchid nimbus]

Oh nerd 🙂 @atomic stratus

[marble cargo]

@weary perch These files were in my save folder, so it should work.

[weary perch]

thanks!

[weary perch]

added this to my sheet, will record a video of how it looks on hardware for comparison soon

re: Flying Dragon audio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEM6zj0hXmg

this game just kind of sounds like dogshit in general, it seems

still can't tell if it sounds exactly the same as the core, but both sound pretty bad lol

[spare meadow]

If you ever need RE 2 saves, just let me know😀

[jolly turret]

Sure, I can take some recordings if you let me know which exact tracks, and we can compare them then. They are not going to sound identical though, as there is still one issue left that needs to be solved first.

[weary perch]

if you could record the intro sequence (just let the game run) for a few minutes that would be enough to compare what i recorded above

it seems to go into randomized matches after a bit but the intro sequence seems the same every time

i'm satisfied to a degree already because hardware definitely sounds bad in a very similar way to how it sounds on the core

just wanted to be sure hardware sounded that bad too 😄

[zenith notch]

A minor thing I thought looked odd in Susume! Taisen puzzle Dama was the text on the screen that flashes up real quick on boot. Can anyone check the real thing and see what it looks like?

[solemn marlin]

Can you also try sim city 64? My patched version sounds weird and I'm not sure if I patched it incorrectly or if n64 dd just sounds like that on the core

Specifically the first track that plays when you start building

[weary perch]

i think this is correct

hardware:

i don't get the same message, presumably because my cpak is full

the red looks brighter on your image but i think it's overall correct

[zenith notch]

Oh cool, thanks for checking. Such an odd looking font!

[upper pivot]

It shouldn’t be too hard to design a new suitable board. Are there no hardware designers in here with some spare time?

I’m too busy unfortunately to lead something like this but I would be happy to take on an advisory role if someone in the community capable and with time wants to make a Mister 2.0 hardware.

Producing boards should also not be a huge problem since many PCB companies offer assembly options too for an added cost.

[vast delta]

Iirc, Terasic announced the DE25, based on an Agilex 5

But it features a similar amount of LEs

[weary palm]

I added this to N64-database: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_ROM_Database/issues/25
Feel free to add helpful comments

[upper pivot]

The thing is that the DE boards are meant as general development boards for education and learning, not specifically for Mister, so it’s unclear that any new board from them will be a huge improvement over the DE10

[vast delta]

The agilex 5 is a fairly more modern FPGA

[solemn marlin]

I'm sure there's more to it if devs are actively looking at it. You have a hunch about what more could be done judging by the specs? I'm too dumb to know whether logic elements is the bottle neck here

[vast delta]

That albeit featuring relatively similar size, could be pushed a bit more than the Cyclone 10

It also features ddr4 and 64MB of sdram built in

[vast delta]

This is in a way why MiSTer appeared. Creating these boards from scratch is quite the undertaking, both from an engineering and finanacial standpoint

[solemn marlin]

Which FPGA board can render the most Marios

[eternal ravine]

Which one can handle the MPEG add-ons for CD-i and Saturn

critical

[vast delta]

i just want FPGA N-Gage

[pliant valve]

The N-gage runs at 104 Mhz. Unlikely.

[mortal panther]

That would be the GOAT~~(se)~~!

[topaz otter]

the ngage has too much raw power for the mister

[weary palm]

We need blockram. loads of it. </IdontKnowWhatImTalkingAbout>

[potent stream]

@lament escarp N64 getting save states before snes would break me lmfao

[cold pollen]

They both require more space but snes wasn't written with them in mind so it might require a complete rewrite 😕

[potent stream]

RIP the dream. The recent retroachievements for the snes everdrive cart being worked on might make me consider actually getting a console, since the everdrive also has save states. That's two huge things the mister can't offer me

[cold pollen]

How would retro achievements work does it have online connection?

Also everdrive doesn't support as many special chip games

[neat sierra]

Just know that the achievements have all been achieved by me in the 90s and everything you do now is fake

[elfin relic]

I'm always faffing about in settings to turn off cheevo pops in steam, playstation, etc, and now here's people rigging them into retro games

[neat sierra]

Kids today can’t do anything without somebody watching 😉

I blame the social medias and the hollow earth reptilians

[potent stream]

https://x.com/Factor_64/status/1830380484217782544

Factor (@Factor_64) on X

My latest project is finally in a state where I feel comfortable showing it off. RetroAchievements on real SNES hardware (RA2Snes) using sd2snes's USB port. I do not have an ETA on release but I'll release it in beta once the UI is finished.

Twitter · Sep 1, 2024, 11:01 PM

there's a usb port on the everdrive itself that can be read from

[cold pollen]

Ohh it's an FXPak Pro not an everdrive

That's awesome

[elfin relic]

that's the sd2snes/fxpak, which is not the everdrive. SNES everdrive is a separate product

[cold pollen]

Yep

I love mine

[elfin relic]

mine's been in a box for quite a while now

[potent stream]

ah okay I'm just throwing the everdrive term around too loosely I guess haha

[elfin relic]

the snes everdrive has a severely reduced feature set, compared to the sd2snes/fxpak, so it's good to be clear on which one we're talking about

[potent stream]

for what it's worth, I also hate achievements in xbox/ps/etc, but I find them fun in retro games, when made by fans. Lots of creative ways to play games I've loved to death already, and get to compete with my buddy. I think when devs make achievements, it takes away from developing the game itself and focusing on making sure that the rewards for tasks IN THE ACTUAL GAME are worthy of your time/effort. However when FANS make the cheevos, lots of creative things come out and it feels categorically different. I basically look to see if the list would make another playthrough of the game more fun and don't even bother if it doesn't. But MANY games have lots of cool easter eggs I'd never think to do or fun challenges that I enjoy personally.

anyway n64 is cool back to n64 stuff

[upper pivot]

What is retro achievements?

[turbid warren]

i hope they can add mister compatibility to retro achievements

[worn delta]

It sounds like it may be possible for someone to add in retro achievements on MiSTer 2, but we will need to wait for the next board and if anyone wants to add them

[neat sierra]

Retro achievements doesn’t even have a mailing address to send your vhs tapes of your high scores to

[latent dagger]

retro achievements is a thing that some smart people added to RetroArch where you can go for community made achievements in old games via emulation.

lots of these achievements are like mini challenges, or they make you have to take notice of details or even easter eggs in games when you previously never noticed or found them

[stone pilot]

Spend 24.0 hours in 240p Test Suite

[mossy vector]

Bilinear scaling has limitations on the N64. A typical case exists where horizontally the pixels are blended, but not vertically.
I tried to find a simple way of showing what the new deblur: on feature does. Surrounding the MiSTer menu is a game screen with white colored single pixel line text. Notice how there is 50% gray to the left and right of a white-on-black pixel for the Original mode.

[latent dagger]

it definitley makes text better

I wonder if it's as noticeable on a CRT though

[mossy vector]

It isn't noticeable using NTSC signaling. I think the intent was to ramp up and down the brightness to lessen rainbowing.

Artifact coloring is when too quickly of a change in brightness gets interpreted as color.

I think it's the inconsistency where it's sharp vertically and blurred horizontally that bothers people into getting the deblur hardware mod.

[quick otter]

I understand if a core exposes memory like on shared ddr, hps can implement cheevos without problems

[weary palm]

I've messed around with the controller auto configuration. I've changed its behavior for pak type config (for player 1 only, as usual). The pak type is ONLY changed if it's unsupported by that game, or if you have no pak selected and the game has one. To avoid tpak/cpak clashing (as I and a few others talked about earlier) I disable TransferPak from System settings when a ControllerPak (memory card) is inserted in the P1 controller when loading a new game or on resetting

[weary palm]

There's a build in #test-builds for brave people.

[eternal ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-working-hammering-hammer-gif-14039888

[weary palm]

does this game really have "battery backup"?
ID:NWQ___ eeprom512|rpak|cpak # Rally Challenge 2000

when I start it it says "the controller pak is not connected, so data cannot be saved."

so I wonder

[weary palm]

Is that me? flattered

[weary palm]

This is what it says in mupen. I'm pretty sure that's wrong. I will check the other regions to be sure.

[quick arch]

on the box it says only rumble pack
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/n64/354052-rally-challenge-2000/boxes/43563

[weary palm]

well it has cpak

if I hold start on reset it shows the cpak-menu

[weary perch]

it does not have eeprom

perhaps the JP version Rally 99 did, but the NTSC-U version only saves to cpak

[jovial briar]

not sure if its any concern but the latest mister main including the cpak changes quadruples initial sync time on my set up when first booting up

once it locks sync everything seems fine

[weary palm]

Japanese version of Harvest Moon is cpak (and maybe sram?), other regions have sram. I hate this.

[marble cargo]

@weary perch did you look into Rayman 2 yet?

[weary palm]

Japanese Harvest Moon had both save types. Amazing that emulators have the wrong idea after over 20 years of emulation.

[modern apex]

maybe the DE25-nano will be released in 2025?

[weary palm]

DEXXV

[weary perch]

i have not. what's the shortest route to reproduction? i haven't played that much of the game so i don't know if there's level select or if the save screen can be brought up by a method other than completing a level

i'll poke around with it but haven't had time yet

[vast delta]

i wouldnt count on the DE25-nano being available next year... but the DE25-Standard should be released

[modern apex]

DE25-nano Dreamcast and Ps2?

[vast delta]

no idea, that'd depend heavily on the FPGA they pick

[marble cargo]

Maybe try the first level, The Woods of Light. It's a very short tutorial level with no hazards, so it should be straightforward to get to the end.

[vast delta]

considering the feature-rich Standard version will only feature 138k LEs I highly doubt an eventual nano would feature a larger FPGA

[plush summit]

Good luck finding people to take it on 😛

[marble cargo]

If you don't get any results, try one of the levels where you race Ly the Fairy.

[modern apex]

At first ps1 and n64 were impossible on the de10-nano, will the de25 not be possible to run these systems?

[marble cargo]

Otherwise, just pick one of the later levels.

[green epoch]

its not a matter of possible, it's a matter of someone wanting to take on the development. the complexity of the ps2 processor in particular would make it a heck of an undertaking

[plush summit]

It's not really about that, the manpower to get things like that going are dramatically larger. A PS2's logic is like 100X times more than a PSX, you'd need a full-time team to get something like that in a reasonable amount of time

[weary perch]

did you ever try it with Turbo?

just curious there

thanks for the repro tips, i'll try and set aside some time

[marble cargo]

I never used the turbo core. I try to play these games as authentically as possible.

[weary perch]

only asking because sometimes that bypasses a crash e.g. Iggy's Reckin' Balls

[modern apex]

waiting for the guardian angels to appear to do this wonderful work

[pliant valve]

What could we get on the de25? Md+32x+CD in one? Other combined cores (which ones are they?) Could it fix the problems in existing cores that were unavoidable on the de10?

[modern apex]

Sometimes I wonder if it will be long before FPGA technology can emulate PS2

[plush summit]

We can get more headroom to improve cores like PSX/Saturn/N64 and support more obscure hacks for SNES/etc

[pliant valve]

More nes mappers?

Could it do a voodoo board on the ao486, or a FPU?

[plush summit]

Mario Maker for SNES doesn't work on MiSTer because of memory limitations and out of spec of a real SNES, a new board could make things fit better or open them up

[plush summit]

Honestly, you're probably better off looking into PCSX2 or a real PS2, its a more active scene

[modern apex]

Has anyone here heard about Neptune which promises to behave exactly like the 32x? and how promising this project is

[modern apex]

this is true

[vast delta]

the DE25-Standard features faster RAM, more BlockRAM and built-in SDRAM

its HPS is also fairly newer

i believe the FPGA itself is a faster speed grade too

so many of the improvements would be incremental

it'd be interesting to see if the DDR4 would be enough for a more accurate N64 RDRAM implementation

[weary palm]

I don't think we'll see a FPGA PS2. At least not this decade.

You'll need a whole team for such a task.

It's many many times more complex than a PS1, and I'm not even sure that there are FPGA's that are powerful enough.

[marble cargo]

It will happen.

The children yearn for The Bouncer.

[weary palm]

I don't really see the point to be honest. The software emulators are superior to the hardware. Imo lag isn't such a problem on later generations.

[lament escarp]

I last tried ps2 emulation 15 years ago on a amd phenom 2 quad core cpu. It wasn't all that great and I'm not willing to find out if that changed.

[hasty musk]

It is very great now.

[lament escarp]

Maybe I'll try it when my modded ps2 phat dies. Which hopefully never happens.

[weary palm]

You can emulate PS2 on a phone today. Perhaps not the optimal way of playing, but still

[remote hatch]

I have several ps2 , but i also use pcsx2. It's great

[weary palm]

I have two. One small, one big.

And Free MCBoot, but no harddrive connected to my broadband adapter.

Should I get a aftermarket adapter with built-in SATA or get a SATA-adapter for my existing one? 😉

#spicy-off-topic

[lament escarp]

Sata adaper for the existing one. The aftermarket one doesn't support ethernet at all (the plug is fake!) And I have to take out the hard drive every time I want to put a new game on it.

Also, the memcard pro2 goes great with a modded ps2.

[vast delta]

interesting, so the SATA adapter is the way to go? i remember something about a 48-bit LBA to allow for bigger HDDs... what's the max size you can install in a ps2 these days?

[lament escarp]

I have a 1tb in there and it works fine. Dunno what the max is.

[jolly turret]

By the way, I will probably not be able to record the audio files before the weekend as I have quite a busy week.

[eternal ravine]

Finally, we will play 32X CD

[placid quiver]

Does this mean I don't have to have the patched roms anymore? The core will handle it?

[silent marten]

If you use the latest unstable main it will auto patch the games on the fly

[weary perch]

hey no worries. i'm pretty satisfied that the core sounds at least close to accurate to hardware after comparing them just by ear

[lean spruce]

Do you need to put the patch files somewhere?

[silent marten]

Nah use yxkalle's n64-database-user.txt and it will use that to patch the games on the fly 🙂

You can grab it from the zip file in #test-builds

[weary palm]

I've updated the N64-database repository so I think you'll get it with the regular updaters.
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_ROM_Database

[gritty basalt]

A little late in replying, but...

I don't have Revision 0 of RE2. I was playing on Rev A. Unless Rev 0 and Rev A are actually the same version, in which case yeah, I could give it a shot. Just in case I don't have one handy (gonna boot up my copy to check when I get some time), you got a save file I can use to test this with?

[teal citrus]

While that is true, after seeing what FPGA emulation can do, I prefer to have that option please!

Especially when I do not wish to have a lot of PS2 games stored on my PC.

So believe me when I say, that I'll be patiently waiting for the day PS2, OG Xbox, and GameCube start running on an FPGA board. Never say never!

[latent dagger]

if anything it won't be an all purpose system like MiSTer but instead a custom board setup that is exclusively built to be just an FPGA PS2 that only plays PS2 games

Xbox is a mixed bag because that's literally just a PC

but with some custom modifications

used NVidia graphics, and custom Pentium III CPU

[gritty basalt]

I kinda beg to differ when it comes to Saturn emulation. Speaking for myself, the MiSTer core is proving to be a more all-round reliable option than any other software emulator I've tried. It generally looks the best, performs the best, and requires the least amount of hassle to set up as the end user. Yeah, this is just one example, but still.

[gritty basalt]

If I can one day see these three platforms come to FPGA along with the Wii (which is basically a beefed-up Gamecube in terms of hardware anyway, last I checked), I'll die a happy man. Yeah, software emulation for PS2 and Gamecube is pretty nice at this point, but I'd like to have options that aren't limited to just software emulation since FPGA has done a lot to win me over over the course of this year. That way people can just choose to use whatever they want and be done with it.

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention Dreamcast. Can't go forgetting Sega's swan song of a console now.

[teal citrus]

Can't believe I forgot about the Dreamcast smh.

[atomic stratus]

all these pie in the sky hopes and dreams for 6th generation consoles in FPGA and I’m just sitting here hoping we might still get Virtual Boy, Game.com and finished Jaguar cores

[languid dune]

Turn in your Sega card!

[languid dune]

I need my 3DO!

[atomic stratus]

I’m interested in that too! I know nothing of the 3DO except Road Rash

[languid dune]

You are in for a treat once you explore the library! It really is shockingly good.

[gilded whale]

That whole generation of cursed consoles needs to have cores like PC FX. CDI is looking promising though.

[solemn marlin]

I do like being the uncle showing the kids our old games, they even like some of them, splatterhouse was somewhat of a hit

I never had the virtual boy but it'd be nice going "this is all we had, red!"

[gilded whale]

I’m with you I want all the all the jaguars, pippins and the casio loopies etc

[thorn quiver]

Just what an animatronic rat would say

[gritty basalt]

We all thought Saturn and N64 on the DE-10 were pie-in-the-sky ideas at one point until people went and made it happen, so it honestly wouldn't surprise me if we saw 6th Gen emulation on FPGA become a thing even sooner than a lot of us probably think. Call it a hunch.

EDIT: Although I DO admit I'd probably give Virtual Boy on MiSTer a try.