Nintendo 64

[wanton sun]

i mean, it's a valid request

[vapid hawk]

it might not of been discussed anywhere tbh, i kind of figured it out myself when i was trying to do my time crisis setup

[weary beacon]

I thought the same, I didn't see anyone mention it online so I brought it up not too long ago cause I was playing with some friends when it had occurred

Ended up using my series X controller as p1 and then Snax64 controllers as p2 and p3

[vapid hawk]

if the core could somehow solve it that'd be awesome, same on PSX, would save me having to have a dummy usb pad for p1

[wanton sun]

all that needs to be done is to use a modified "command_padindex" here, based on the number of previous snac slots:
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_MiSTer/blob/main/rtl/Gamepad.vhd#L183-L206

[weary beacon]

I don't even have 3 other dummy controllers to use LMAO 🤣

[manic basin]

Is it an hps request for main or should I leave it in n64?

Oh cool

Robert, you're awesome

[vapid hawk]

@desert crow might be interested in helping out

[weary beacon]

I'm not sure what I'm looking at but y'know what, it looks awesome

[wanton sun]

you can leave it there. I'm not sure when i have time for it, but it should not take more than 1-2 hours or so to figure out. Probably needs some builds and 4 slot snac to fully test

[weary beacon]

I have a 4p Snax and 2 N64 controllers and free time, I'd be down to test if there's a build available sometime

[vapid hawk]

i've got the hardware to test here

[wanton sun]

it's not related to snac directly, so blue1 isn't really involved, but of course he could also do it

[vapid hawk]

i'm sure porkchop would hook you up with a snax64 if you asked

[wanton sun]

let me see when i have time for it. It's a bit annoying i cannot really test and have to leave to you, but i guess that is ok this time

[manic basin]

We have contingencies, thank you sir! You've already given us so much!

[wanton sun]

this can get complicated if someone wants it really mixed, e.g. 1+3 snac, 2+4 usb

[manic basin]

Yeah... The matrix is rough

[wanton sun]

just to cover all cases that currently are offset

• 1 snac, 2+3+4 usb
• 1+2 snac, 3+4 usb
• 1+2+3 snac, 4 usb
• 1+3 snac, 2+4 usb
• 2 snac, 1+3+4 usb
• 2+3 snac, 1+4 usb
• 3 snac, 1+2+4 usb

anything missing?

[manic basin]

4 snac is out?

[wanton sun]

nothing is shifted if snac is only at 4

[manic basin]

That's a lot of testing for sure 😦
Ah, right

[wanton sun]

yes, a lot of testing, that's why it's not nice to just upload a rbf without testing, especially if it needs multiple tries. But I currently have no setup where i can even connect snac, so that's the best i can offer

[vapid hawk]

so you need a minimum of 3 usb pads and 3 snac pads for testing

[wanton sun]

for all modes yes

[vapid hawk]

can do

[wanton sun]

Great, I would send it via PM once i have something if that is ok

there is one trick: i can tell via OSD that i have snac, but even if i don't have it connected, the usb pads should still shift the position

so i can test most of it, just not that snac still works

[vapid hawk]

oh yeah true the snac pads dont have to actually exist

[magic girder]

https://youtu.be/UPw-3e_pzqU

[weary beacon]

Did you change the sticks on your Dualshock 1? All 4 controllers I have came with Grey sticks

[vapid hawk]

They’re dualshock2s really

[weary beacon]

Oh! That's really cool

[hearty oar]

That’s one clean looking AV cart setup

[compact depot]

Do you have a RetroPad32?

[vapid hawk]

no

thats a reflex adapt

[compact depot]

Lemme know if you want one. Those controllers deserve to be played on those consoles 😄

[vapid hawk]

i think i can already adapt every controller i have to almost any console , between the reflex and various brooks adapters

[compact depot]

Oh, right on! Brooks are good for those use cases yeah

And reflex is awesomeness for USB

[vapid hawk]

yeah they just need to hurry up and release the stuff thats in beta right now with the rumble support etc 😄

[desert crow]

since you have the 4p snax you could have used usb for the ports 1,2 and snac for 3,4. That way you wouldn't need any dummy controllers.

[weary beacon]

I believe I mentioned it somewhere in the thread but yeah, that's what I did. P1 was the USB controller, P2 and P3 was Snax.

[desert crow]

good, I just skimmed through. Rob may already have it figured out. It seems like if could get complicated, we''ll see what he comes up with.

Some of the other cores that can only do 1 port with snac, there I made usb 1 act as port 2 when snac was enabled. it gets trickier when there's 4 ports

[prisma jungle]

Hi, lurker here - on this topic, anyway to make a 2p snax adapter work as n64 p3&4? Densha de Go controller requires being in port3, and would like to avoid snax64 just for this use case

[desert crow]

No not currently I did do a special build where port 2 of snax acted like port 3 so Robby could test the DDG controller.

[prisma jungle]

Cool, thank you for confirming!

[wanton sun]

@weary beacon feel free to try the test build. Freddo tested and found no issue, so your use case should work now

[high umbra]

mintendo mixtyfor

[iron escarp]

Hi everyone 👋 I heard in VG Esoterica’s recent video that the Turbo Core is able to play previously unplayable games like Resident Evil 2. Can someone tell me a little bit about that? Do I need two sticks of ram? Do the games need a patch? Is Conker playable?

[lament escarp]

@cerulean elk explain yourself!

[cerulean elk]

Lol you rang

[blissful plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/you-rang-gif-20538562

[cerulean elk]

I have beaten RE 2 on turbo with Leon and no freeze

[iron escarp]

That’s sick

[cerulean elk]

Andy D tested an area prone to freezing on his end and he also could not cause a freeze

It’s a very “mileage may vary” situation

I was on 3.0V ram

I’ll have videos soon. A two part test

[iron escarp]

I see

[iron escarp]

Any difference between 2.9V and 3.0V on N64 core?

[cerulean elk]

I haven’t even started the Claire campaign so this is just for Leon

[cerulean elk]

No that change is just a ground I believe

2.9V should be fine

[lament escarp]

According to sorg (I think) 2.9 and 3.0 should be completely exchangeable.

[iron escarp]

Dope, thanks! Really looking forward to those test videos then 🙂 While I got you though quick question, what’s up with all the pregnant Arnold Schwarzenegger pictures all over your Mars FPGA videos? Is it an inside joke or do you just have a thing for that? XD

[cerulean elk]

Just something that stuck lol. Just me having fun

[lament escarp]

He thinks it's arousing. Like a kink.

And I agree.

[cerulean elk]

I put a lot of things into videos nobody notices. This one is just easy to notice

[iron escarp]

I bet you’re having having fun lmao

Lots of fun

[cerulean elk]

But in almost every video there is some sort of joke, usually in VO, that not many people notice. Or in the edit. Or in the video itself. I like to see who figures things out haha

[iron escarp]

Your videos are very funny lol keep up the quality work 👌

Huge part of me getting back into Mister after the recent Saturn core updates

N64 is the extra cherry on top I didn’t know I’d get lol. Can’t wait for my bonus to drop so I can buy Snax64 and use all my old controllers

[cerulean elk]

Glad you enjoy them 🙂

[iron escarp]

Dude your video on F-Zero CD expansion was insane. I had no idea that would be playable on the Mister. If not you then someone else should make a video calculating just how much money the mister saves you in retro hardware, both consoles and arcade. I would love to know, because it’s gotta be somewhere in the upper 5 digits. Absolutely insane. Not to mention old hardware is old and starting to fail at higher rates. Best purchase I ever made.

[cerulean elk]

I did just a while ago

Maybe 2021 or so

[iron escarp]

Link please 🙏

[vapid hawk]

@manic basin build in #test-builds for you 🙂

[cerulean elk]

Is the MiSTer FPGA Worth it? Should I buy a MiSTer? Let's Find Out!
https://youtu.be/ike6HlKL9IU

[iron escarp]

Streets ahead as always @cerulean elk 🙏Thanks a lot! You’re the fucking best. Your videos, especially Saturn FPGA updates, have become the highlights of my mornings!

[manic basin]

Yep! I am memorizing lines for an auditioni but I'll look as soon as it's over. I saw it come in last night but was 10 seconds away from conking out.

[cerulean elk]

Plenty more fun coming

[iron escarp]

Can’t wait! 😄

[cerulean elk]

New N64 video tomorrow at 4 cst

[vapid hawk]

ooh cool good luck with your audition!

[iron escarp]

Oh hell yis

Gotta head to my doctors appointment now. Thanks so much for your help @cerulean elk ! Happy gaming everyone!

[languid dune]

1-2 Switch Part 3 confirmed! ...sadly, I know you weren't in the second game.

In all seriousness, good luck on your audition! 👍

[weary beacon]

Awesome! Will be testing tonight 🙂

[manic basin]

Thanks! It was a very 'this dialog is lifted from The Big Lebowski' situation, so I hope I did OK. I got to 'You're out of your element' a Donny basically.

[compact depot]

Not worth it, according to MJR

Hidden Gem!

[manic basin]

@wanton sun Closed the bug! The test build works great!

[vivid current]

On another social media platform I saw someone post that he heard "only 1/3 of N64 games run correctly"

Is that true?

So far I haven't noticed anything wrong with the N64 core but maybe I just played the more popular games?

[hearty oar]

If correctly here means “with 100% perfect accuracy and timing to real hardware” then sure, maybe, otherwise I don’t think that’s the case, the vast majority of games play and run really well

[cerulean elk]

That’s what we cal in the business “horseshit” lol

You are getting a 99% perfect core minus a few games. The slight variances you’d be hard pressed to ever notice

[manic basin]

100% of Batman Beyond games don't run right. That's not core specific. They just suck even when they're timed correctly.

[hearty oar]

Unlike Superman games, which are all perfect and beautiful

[manic basin]

Lex Wins

[cerulean elk]

Really this is a feature not a bug. You can realize the game sucks at double speed

[eternal island]

its possible that person on social media that said only 1/3rd of games run correctly checked in 6-8 months ago and thought progress would take a longer time

it did not..

[dawn halo]

Re the RE2 talk: I experienced a number of freezes with Claire on the turbo core. I do think it's a YMMV thing.

[weary beacon]

I just finished testing aswell and I agree!

[weary beacon]

Did you do anything specific to get the turbo core working? Mine loads to a black screen. I wasnt sure if I needed to do anything specific but I just added it to the console cores folder

[wanton sun]

the core is completly identical, other than higher clock speed. If you cannot get the OSD up with it, this can mean two things:

• the rbf is broken (99% likely)
• your DE10-Nano cannot handle the higher speed (1% likely)

[vivid current]

That is awesome to know.

In fact, I am about to really cut down my insane console collection.

I've already decided to sell around $5,000 worth.

As for the N64, I never owned one as a kid, and never liked the controller, and just... have no attachment to it.

I do LOVE the games and think it's an awesome system, but if the MiSTer can do it, I can sell the retro gear to someone who will actually use it.

[inner bronze]

Its just a bit sad that 1% includes Conker I think?

[thorn flax]

hopefully some core devs will be compensated for the value they’ve provided you

[marble cargo]

It's true, there are multiple examples of RAM timing inaccuracies due to the RAM speed being higher than it should. So any games that were impacted by the RAM bottleneck inherent to the original hardware don't exhibit the same behavior on the core.

In a majority of cases this will be games running faster than they should, but there are some games that are particularly sensitive to the RAM timings and may randomly crash. Though keep in mind some games will still lag like the original hardware due to having a different type of bottleneck.

The Pokémon Stadium games are an example of this behavior you can easily see. Certain moves that produce a lot of effects like Blizzard, Thunder, Explosion, etc. will lag on the original hardware, but due to the faster RAM timings on the core, the animations play out faster than intended.

[minor fog]

Not sure whether here or controllers is best to ask but does anyone use the nso n64 controller with an 8bitdo receiver?

[weary beacon]

Ive downloaded the RBF from the discord, I've already downloaded it twice but I'll try again. Maybe it's a configuration setting but I'm not sure? Everything so far has worked fine at 1920x1440. I also have interger scale enabled, vrr enabled, and the low input lag option but I can't remember the name right now

As for my hardware configuration, I bought the Digital IO version from MisterAddons

[cunning mantle]

There's an issue with "Fixed Video Blanks". If you start the N64 core with it "off" you get a black screen, no core menu shows up. Delete your N64 config file (media/fat/config) and start the core again.

[vapid hawk]

is there a bug open for that? seems weird

psx cores similar options don't do it

[cunning mantle]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_MiSTer/issues/5

[raw oriole]

Maybe more lube needed?

[fair stump]

N64 needs more Vaseline

[knotty zealot]

it makes no sense having two n64 channels

[lament escarp]

I wonder if robert could add additional vi features. Instead of turning them off we could double the intensity. 🤞

[manic basin]

I believe the n64-dev channel is getting archived at some point. I kinda prefer it (easier to search than threads) but yeah, having two is a pain.

[knotty zealot]

it's DUMB

everyone just typing the same stuff in both channels anyways

[manic basin]

Double buffered output

[knotty zealot]

when this weekend is over, we will have ONE channel so help the legs i stand on

[manic basin]

My son Basket was tall and slim and he had a leg for every limb. But now he has no legs at all, they were both shot away by a discord mod, timmy roo dun dah, faddle riddle dah, whack to the riddle timmy roo dun daaaaah.

Yeah, it'd be nice to be down to one. Keep the archive for posterity/answers, but lock it down to one for new messages.

[knotty zealot]

i've kept this one muted and hidden for as long as it's existed and i come back and find..... just the random discussions you see in the other channel

do you realize what it does to my trigger-meter? it cooks it!

i'm going to just switch. i'm muting the other one.

[lament escarp]

I should argue in one channel for one opinion and in the other for the opposite.

[cerulean elk]

Turbo RE 2 test is up on #share-media

[manic basin]

I could not get it to crash at all on Turbo. Me. The person who literally had it crash on the first screen pretty much every single test on the original core. So that's something!

[cerulean elk]

you were cursed

part 2 will be next week

[lament escarp]

Would be interesting if there is a certain speed the core needs to be to make conker stable.

Probably 69mhz the way I know that squirrel.

[cerulean elk]

Nice

[wanton sun]

i'm not sure what the real console would do when you start it with no game. Does it produce a video signal? If yes, we could change the default VI settings

[cunning mantle]

I don't know, sold my N64 decades ago. But i would assume a black screen too. But this happens on older consoles too, right? The NES has a grey screen iirc.

[storm vessel]

What is forced video blanks for anyway? 480i flicker? And yeah, pretty sure NES was grey (without a cartridge right?)

[cinder pagoda]

Is Patch64+ easy to use? I watched your OOT and MM video, downloaded the tool, but it did not seem straight forward like .ips patches. Closed the program and have not looked at it since

[manic basin]

It's kind of a pain. The script requires a specific version of powershell and .Net. once you're in, you have to select the game from a drop-down, and then load the original ROM file. I Once you do that, poplar patch packages are listed in ANOTHER drop-down, or you can choose extras and pick your own from the right hand side of the screen. Under multiple tabs, if course... Because complexity is cool, am I right fellow kids?

Once you learn it, though, it's fine.

[weary beacon]

For whatever reason, I still can't get the turbo core to work at all. I'm not sure if there's something wrong with my software config but everytime it loads, I'm getting a black screen. As for hardware, I got the digital IO version with the two ram kits from misteraddons

[minor fog]

Does the core load a default rom if named correctly? Could always dump a copy of mario64 as boot1.rom or whatever

[junior pine]

I see what you did there

[wanton sun]

it should, yes @minor fog

[orchid nimbus]

there is a meme for that already:

[ebon kindle]

wow its back

yey

[vapid hawk]

a real console without a cart in it produces an empty black screen, but it is like, generating sync etc

[wanton sun]

ok, thank you. Then it's a valid point and the default value should be changed

it's a bit annoying as it would be either ntsc or pal depending on the TV type, but that is unknown until a game is loaded

maybe it's a good solution to force fixed blanks until a game is loaded?

[vapid hawk]

that sounds good

[junior yarrow]

clearly we gotta set it up to do the N64 DD Startup animation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK29G_ZeOGI

[chilly ember]

Why is that video's date set to 9 11 on the boot screen?

Worst day to demo the double D boot screen ever

[manic basin]

9/11 was a Thursday wasn't it? I remember being at work...so at least it's not THAT 9/11.

Tuesday

Never could get the hang of Tuesdays.

[chilly ember]

I don't know but I'd wait a day to film the video or change the clock manually just because i know some guy years later would comment on the fact

[hearty oar]

Occam’s Razor - they probably didn’t notice

Especially if they are outside of the US, not saying it wasn’t an important or historic event but we definitely aren’t as tuned into it ie. here in Australia

[manic basin]

Well, in Australia it'd be November 9th, right? So... even less so.

[storm vessel]

Most of the world doesn’t do it US/JP style

The date

[chilly ember]

Your mom doesn't do it US style. Aaa ohh

[storm vessel]

I still say the F-Zero X startup is best

[chilly ember]

F zero x is code name for foreplay

[hearty oar]

I guess that explains the G in GX

[worn delta]

Hmm, has anyone ever tried loading the 64DD BIOS? I assume it doesn't boot but don't recall anyone ever trying it on the core

[kind solar]

one tried, and was never heard from again

[hollow rune]

https://tenor.com/view/scooby-doo-scooby-doo-where-are-you-hanna-barbera-productions-cbs-scooby-dooby-doo-gif-8486604008516254154

[lament escarp]

I remember kids gathering behind a gameboy but never behind a book.

[hollow rune]

books were how amateurs solved crimes before podcasting

[lament escarp]

We weren't solving crimes as kids. We were commiting them.

[worn delta]

If anyone gives it a shot let us know if anything happens

[lament escarp]

Though it actually helps that way when you're trying to solve them when you think about it. Who shoplifted the batteries? Me. Why? Because I want to get another batch in pokemon. Crime solved. 😅

[hollow rune]

I showed my mom this exchange and she asked "What is a 64DD Bios?" and I said it is like the software that is on the 64DD. She said nothing and then I asked if she knew what the 64DD is and she said "Yeah, the Dendy."

She knows enough to be dangerous.

[lament escarp]

How do you get from 64dd to dendy?

[hollow rune]

I think she didn't know what the 64DD was and just likes the elephant

[lament escarp]

Very Republican.

[hollow rune]

That's ridiculolus. That would mean this baby is part of the GOP

[hollow rune]

They probably hang out

[lament escarp]

It would be so funny if that hat was red. What a shame. 🤡

[fair stump]

Is that another dendy?

[hollow rune]

No, it was a joke for Quirrin. It is a famous German cartoon character

[fair stump]

I just noticed dendys piercing gaze

[lament escarp]

Sendung mit der Maus.

[hollow rune]

That look comes with the experience of fighting to bring the Famicom to all peoples of the world

[lament escarp]

Honestly I don't think those german shows are all that great. Same with Löwenzahn.

[lament escarp]

Yeah the dendy logo is great.

I'd love it if they had a dendy switch clone. But I guess they're busy with less nice things.

[hollow rune]

Sendung mit der Maus is really good. It could go toe-to-toe with most American educational shows

[lament escarp]

I don't wanna be educated!

[dusty tusk]

Japanese date formatting. November 11th

[worn delta]

To answer my own question I tried loading the 4 64DD BIOS files in the Everdrive pack that are .z64 format and all give a black screen. Three have E20 as an error and one has E80045

[cerulean elk]

It’s “funny”. September 11th is the day my mother in law died. So it’s a totally diff anniversary than what everyone else remembers now

Good thing is you still remember it’s a shitty day so 😂

[latent hatch]

Wouldn't November 11th be 11/11 worldwide?

[junior yarrow]

The video was uploaded on September 11th 2016, most likely they just, didn't notice

[manic basin]

Surely they meant 9th, but when you start typing 1s, the day just gets away from you. Ask Tolkien.

[dusty tusk]

Yeah meant 9th

[weary beacon]

@wanton sun Hey, I was able to get the N64 turbo core working but I had to be on the latest Mister unstable branch. Is that something you always need to do for test builds?

[wanton sun]

no, newest stable should be fine. Maybe you have been on a very old stable version

[weary beacon]

I updated both using update and update_all.

I also did a fresh install beforehand

[viral portal]

both of what? Last I knew, the unstable branch wasn't in any update scripts

[weary beacon]

Sorry, I meant I updated my mister using the update script then ended up using update_all afterwards

But I was having issues getting the N64 turbo core to work so then I switched from the most recent main build to an unstable build and now the core works

[viral portal]

Oh, the turbo core. Not the regular core.

[weary beacon]

LMAO I didn't even realize I forgot to specify the turbo core, this is why I need my morning coffee lol. Yeah, the turbo core wasn't working at all but the standard core has been fine

@wanton sun I meant the turbo core lol my bad

[wanton sun]

if it works great, but i can't see how that could be the reason

[weary beacon]

I'm not sure either, I've tried everything. Fresh install, new SD card, left everything at default, updated and nothing fixed it

[cerulean elk]

N64 vid time!

[calm knoll]

N64 = good

[junior yarrow]

Is there still a spot where people should report bugs or errors with the core?

[vapid hawk]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_MiSTer/issues

[snow anchor]

Hello. I've been pointed towards the Discord forum, as I've been told there's a new test core by Robert, that fixes some of the Snac issues when using a Snax64. Could anyone tell me where to find that, please? Thank you.

[languid dune]

#test-builds message

Enjoy!

[snow anchor]

Thanks for your reply. It says "No Access" though.

[languid dune]

Ah dang it. I forget what you need to do to get access to it. @zinc dew can you help? I know it's something really simple, but forget what it is exactly!

[zinc dew]

I can fix

[zinc dew]

Try again please

[zinc dew]

Thanks for pinging me. It’s basically the Cycle Accurate role that’s needed to gain access.

[snow anchor]

The link works for me now. Thank you.

[zinc dew]

You’re welcome!

[snow anchor]

The issue I have, is I got a Snax64, and I have two wireless Brawler64 controllers. Either of them work in the first port (I also have a wired Brawler that works in the first port too), but I can't get two controllers working at the same time when I use the other ports.
I've just tried the latest test core, but still no luck, unfortunately.

[zinc dew]

Have you tried with other N64 controllers?

[snow anchor]

The Retro Fighters Brawler64 (either wireless or wired) are the only ones I have.

Any of them work in the first port, but that's all.

[zinc dew]

Really dumb question but did you set the other player assignments to SNAC as well?

[deft tree]

was typing the same

[snow anchor]

All four I changed to Pad Type: SNAC on the menu.

[desert crow]

try 1 pad in just port 2(second from the left on snax 64), and try both cables in port 1 by themselves to verify the cables work.

[snow anchor]

I did so and made sure earlier. Both cables work.

[snow anchor]

I just swapped them over to make double, double sure. And both cables (and controllers work), just only in port 1.

[desert crow]

so does port 2 work with just one controller?

[snow anchor]

No, even though the menu has all the Pad Types switched to SNAC.

[desert crow]

how about ports 3 or 4?

[snow anchor]

Port 3 and 4 are the same as port 2. Nothing happening with those. I've been trying all day on and off.

[desert crow]

maybe try setting only the port your using to snac. there's a few controller test roms maybe that will tell you what's happening.

[snow anchor]

Here's what I'm using. I've tried the wired Brawer too (that works in port 1, just the same as the wireless version, but not in any of the others).

[snow anchor]

I just tried your suggestion. Turned off all the Pad Types apart from the second one. But still, it doesn't work. I even unplugged the first one. But again, nothing.

[zinc dew]

Might be good to reach out on MiSTerAddon’s discord server. He’s an extremely nice and helpful guy.

https://x.com/misteraddons?s=21&t=qZDZkf9otfQfj9v44WsIZA

Porkshop Express (@MisterAddons) on X

Owner and designer of MiSTer Addons, a company focused on accessories for the MiSTer FPGA gaming project. https://t.co/OaFiufc5qd
Discord server: https://t.co/5mi4JBTkZ0

Twitter

Link is in his profile

[snow anchor]

Thank you. I'll contact him. It could be possible that I have a faulty Snax64.

[zinc dew]

I hope it works out for you, bud. Sorry to hear you’re having trouble.

[desert crow]

I tried the 4/25 build out with a pad in port 2 of regular 2 port snax, nothing in port 1. it works fine with just port 2 set to snac. it also works with all of them set to snac for me.

but that's using a regular nintendo controller, I don't have the ones you used.

it could be HW, does psx pads work with port 2?

[snow anchor]

I don't have the PSX pads. I do have this Nintendo SNES classic controller, which I usually plug directly into the MiSTer. That doesn't work with any of the ports on the Snax64 though.

[junior yarrow]

I suppose I should check if other people have this issue in majoras mask? or maybe its something on my end

[junior yarrow]

basically when the game is supposed to fade to black (example, closing the telescope) it instead just displays the full picture

[zinc dew]

Yes, SNAC/SNAX64 will only work with original controllers and original controller connections.

[inner isle]

Is the n64 core 100% complete?

I'm aware of the select few games that crash, but wondered as I saw that video of 5 perefct games which made me wonder are there games that run different to the original hardware still.

[plush summit]

As of now, active work on it has been paused, if there are noticeable behaviors, I wouldn't be surprised if Robert might take a glance at it

[inner isle]

Just my curiosity more than anything.

[gaunt star]

I think there are still technically bugs or behaviors present that are different than real hardware but tbh I have gone through and played a lot of the big titles on the regular and turbo cores and it feels quite accurate to me

I have typically had issues with any non-Ares implementation of n64 emulation so for it to feel so authentic was surely a feat

[inner isle]

I'm not complaining 😃👍

I only play a few games on it, major titles. I think the game I played the most was superstar soccer 64.

[wanton sun]

Nothing in the 5th gen will ever be 100% in our lifetime, just too complex. But yes, active development has ended. The games that don't suffer from the memory latency issue typically work well

[inner isle]

So just for my knowledge what isn't accurate about the games that run ok? Is it even noticeable to you?

I played wave race and I didnt notice anything

These inaccuracies must be so tiny.

[wanton sun]

could be that you have slightly less fps drops in waverace

in general the core is faster compared to the real console. To compensate for the ddr3 latency, the bandwidth is increased. But the difference isn't huge, maybe 5-10% higher fps? You would only notice when a game drops from e.g. 30fps on a real console to 25fps, then on the core you might still have 27 fps

I didn't compare wave race.
In mario 64 the intro won 1-2 frames against a real console over 50 seconds, so 2/1500 = 0.1%
In 1080 it was about 1 second over the first course intro of 80 seconds, so 30/2400 = 1.25%
keep in mind that the game isn't really running faster, it's just that you have less slowdown. Personally I prefer this situation, but of course having less slowdown/fps drops is not fully accurate

[inner isle]

Sounds like an improvement to me

So basically better than the real hardware. You're a legend Robert.

And then there's the turbo core, which probably holds 30 fps on wave race.

So what is it your now focusing on? Making your own games? Sounds fun and great to do something for yourself.

[wanton sun]

It's completly different, but great to learn something new 🙂

[languid dune]

Wave Race is actually a locked 20fps. And it rarely, if ever drops frames. It's one of the most stable games on the console, but that comes at the price of 20fps.

[inner isle]

Excellent

[inner isle]

Good for you mate

@wanton sun What's your fav genre?

[oblique remnant]

good find, def. a very minor bug. here's how it should look like on original hw

[worn delta]

Great find, definitely worth getting a GitHub issue logged for that one so it's documented

[vapid hawk]

can you find anywhere else in the game to repro that?

it takes like 30 minutes to get there from a cold start iirc and you can't even save before?

[worn delta]

Can a save file be shared? I forget how that works now with the files

[oblique remnant]

not that I'm aware of. you only use that binocular only once in the game as far I can remember (?)

[junior yarrow]

I dont think theres anywhere earlier than that one

[vapid hawk]

actually i guess you can go there on any day, so you should be able to make an owl save where it's only a few minutes running to get there i guess

[junior yarrow]

You can use the telescope as many times as you like, tho you only need to use it as many times as you need the moon tear (mandatory the first cycle, after that you can get some heart pieces out of it

[oblique remnant]

yeah I played through the game on mister then finished up on original hw. When I started playing, the core still got some major updates nearly each day but I must have forgotten about that issue in the end

[junior yarrow]

Uh i wanna say the same fade to black transition is used at the end of the milk delivery minigame

Tho that's not a fast easily accessible part of the game

[oblique remnant]

I wonder now how it would perform on the GC Version that wasn't the best port I've heard

[weary beacon]

How long do test builds stay test builds before they get added into update_all? The newest N64 update with the controller mixing fixes is super cool and useful

[vapid hawk]

kinda varies on urgency

its an obscure case with not a lot of people who have the hardware to test it so probs be a bit longer than usual

on the other hand it does work perfectly 😄

[spice rover]

is there any way to hide this prompt? something i’m missing? also, any way to add the turbo core to my downloader.ini?

[junior yarrow]

I dont think theres a way to hide it, if you turn off auto-detect that would get rid of it but then you'll have to change the settings every time you want to switch games

[vapid moat]

It gets hidden with controller info set on 0

[spice rover]

I have it set to zero currently

[vapid moat]

Hnmm

You have latest Mister-main?

[spice rover]

i do, also updated the mister.ini (which is kinda messy, i cleaned it up)

this is the only core it displays on

[vapid moat]

Huh, odd

I think there's an unstable build of mister main-file that should hide it

[spice rover]

i can give that a shot. any reason i should want to not be on an unstable build?

not want*

[fair stump]

This old unstable mentions hiding that but I'm not sure what the setting is

[spice rover]

Great find! Thank you!

[zinc dew]

Yeah pretty sure it was with controller info?

[spice rover]

yup, fixed it!

[lament escarp]

Been 4 months since the last main update. Any idea when all these unstable functions get pulled into stable? Mainly waiting for the gb-n64 core save transfer.

[dusty tusk]

Today I learned you can use L and R to cycle back and forth in the controller pak settings instead of looping all the way around

[cold pollen]

That works in some other areas like shadow masks

[spice rover]

This is such a helpful tip

[vapid hawk]

it works on any control afaik, and yeah its so useful, can't remember who added that, hero

[vivid current]

Just listed my RGB modded N64 and EverDrive to sell.

Mixed emotions.

But the MiSTer does N64 so well... I just had to.

[zenith orchid]

I guess it's not worth it for conker and jet force gemini

[manic basin]

Conker on Repaly is pretty damned nice to play. I'm glad they included the N64 version and not just the 360 one.

*OG Xbox one

That is.

[oblique remnant]

If there was only an option to invert the controls. Felt weird to me

[manic basin]

Yeah, that's the big complaint and I get it. I think you could do it at the os level with accessibility features, but that blows for just one game. They never did enable it, which is tragic.

[storm vessel]

I never played either Conker or JFG. I think I had moved on to the next generation and didn’t care about them for whatever reason. Still wonder if I’ll play them someday with the backlog I got.

[zinc dew]

I asked the dev team about it at E3 and even though Live and Uncut was up and running they felt the original was better. But they also had to sort a bunch of other issues with the Xbox release so I just think the N64 version running on their emulator was easier to do overall.

[lament escarp]

Translation: I'm famous and awesome and I meet famous and awesome people and they tell me interesting stuff. 🤡

[zinc dew]

That wasn’t my intention but yeah I can see how it could come across that way. Sorry about that.

[lament escarp]

Nah I'm just kidding. You don't need to apologize for being famous and awesome.

[zinc dew]

I’m not famous or awesome lol

I just like video games a bit too much lol

[lament escarp]

I think you're pretty awesome.

[zinc dew]

Likewise!

[iron dove]

live n reloaded still had some slowdown in the area with the catfish (on a one x) when I last played it, probably fine on series consoles

[glass walrus]

do the other regions for conkers have the same issues?

[zinc dew]

Yes

[eternal ravine]

Robbie invented the BFG, FFS
Let's give appropriate respect

[weary beacon]

I thought Roald Dahl created the BFG. TIL.

[dusty tusk]

I overall really like live and reloaded, game is still gorgeous. Not a big fan of the tediz redesign though. They barely look like Teddy bears anymore

[zinc dew]

Yeah I liked live and reloaded too

[hearty oar]

it's the version I've replayed the most, although no doubt the original has loads of charm

[weary beacon]

Before I mess anything up can someone please confirm that if I delete "rpak" from a games listing in the N64-database file that it will not boot with the expansion pack enabled? Want to play a bit of ISS 2000 but the expansion pack makes it run like poop. Thanks!

[lament escarp]

You can also set the ram to 4mb in the osd. I think it's under miscellaneous.

Dunno bout the database.

[weary beacon]

You can set the ram to 4mb to for it to take effect on boot you have to turn off autodetect on the database which isnt ideal. My thinking was that if you can edit the database directly then there's no need to turn any options on or off on a per game basis.

[lament escarp]

You certainly can do that, but I'm not really knowledgeable on how the database works.

[weary beacon]

Ok thanks, will try editing manually as see how it goes.

Ahhhh, "rpak" is obviously for rumble pack, that won't help with disabling the expansion. There's no value for the expansion pack on the database file at all.

[lament escarp]

There should afaik.

[weary beacon]

Everything but the expansion is listed from what I see.

Odd, wonder where the value is taken from.

[zinc dew]

rpak means rumble pak

There’s no expansion pak setting in the games listing. You need to change your ram amount to 4mb.

Most games if not all have an option to disable high res visuals so check the in game options menu.

[weary beacon]

I spent so long mucking about in the database and options that I was too stupid to check the in game options, it has a low res option lol. Thanks pal.

[zinc dew]

Yeah no problem! While not the exact solution you were looking for I hope that helps all the same! 🍻

It reminds me of when I got the expansion pack and excitedly went to play Turok 2 in high-res lmao

It ran like absolute shit!

[weary beacon]

No it is the solution thanks, I don’t have to save options on a core level that I may want to revert or change later or edit any files to get the result I want so it’s all good. Yeah the expansion pack isn’t utilised that well, one step forward for resolution, one step back with the FPS!

[modest helm]

Hey guys it’s been a while. Glad to see the N64 core is complete! My only question is how do I get cheats working? The cheat section is greyed out on every game and I have the cheats all downloaded

[manic basin]

Make sure you've followed the instructions in the Cheats heading here: https://vampier.net/N64/

Once you have populated that directory, the cheats option should become enabled.

Also, if you have multiple storage options, I believe cheats should be on the SD card. But I've never used them, so I'm not sure.

[worn delta]

The regular downloader script should be grabbing the cheats. Worth double checking what version of Main you are on, someone had a weird issue recently where their Main wasn't getting updated and was way behind

[brisk edge]

I haven't tried to enable them but I know for sure when I recently ran update_all it grabbed N64 cheats

[spice rover]

This isn't necessary anymore

Just enable cheats in UpdateAll, that's it

just tried it out for the first time, no issues. So far all i’ve done is beaten the deku tree level lol

[manic basin]

It's still where the files are stored, isn't it? For troubleshooting it seems relevant.

[spice rover]

For troubleshooting, sure, but start in UpdateAll. That’s the only instructions for getting it set up. Anything else is figuring out a problem

unless you want to set it up manually

guess i didnt think that some might want to do that

[manic basin]

Specifically, the issue was they did update all and had cheats and they were still greyed out. Verifying they have a cheat file for the game was the point, not the source specifically. Just trying to help them

[spice rover]

Yeah, they mentioned they ran updateall after you pointed them to those instructions. I know you're just trying to help, I just wanted to point out that those instructions have been outdated since it's now part of Main. Still a good resource for troubleshooting though

updateall first, then go from there would be my recommendation is all

[cobalt junco]

Hmm I still get the greyed out cheats on N64. I've ran the update all and can confirm I am on MiSTer v240110. The cheat files are located on my SD card in the MiSTer in: /media/fat/Cheats/N64

Could be the roms but they are being detected okay by the database and each game is configured correctly. i'm unsure what could be wrong.

Cheats work fine for other consoles/handhelds like Gameboy, PSX

[spice rover]

@cobalt junco I don't mean to ask such an obvious question, but are you checking after you;ve loaded a rom?

when you load the core before loading a rom, it's greyed out. just want to make sure

I'm not sure if you have any filters set or not for downloader.ini so there's a chance you're not grabbing the newest N64 core depending on how it's set up

what version is your N64 core?

[cobalt junco]

Yes I am running the game first and then checking cheats. Running N64_20240322.rbf

I will try deleting the cheats inside the n64 folder and re-running update all

[spice rover]

weird, you're on the most recent stable

i'm not sure how the n64 core works, but I know with PSX the game ID has to match the cheats, otherwise they don't pull

are you acquiring your roms from a reputable source?

htgdb N64 roms from Archive are great and work with cheats for me. I confirmed OoT works from there with cheats. Maybe download that one rom and test it

[cobalt junco]

Yeah I deleted the N64 folder in cheats and re ran update all. It did redownload the cheats and I can see them repopulate ../Cheats/N64 via FTP. I’ve just launched snowboard kids and still see the chests are greyed out.

mine are no-intro roms but I will try again from another source to see if it is the roms

[spice rover]

what do you mean by no-intro? to my understanding that's just a classification meaning they don't have those annoying hacked intros in the beginning of the rom from whoever dumped the rom

any source can be no intro, unless i'm out of the loop lol

all htgdb packs are no intro, but they aren't labelled as such

[cobalt junco]

the romset I have are matched and hashed against no intro's dat's.

[spice rover]

that sounds just like the archive no intro sets page i just found lol

check your PMs and try that

worth a shot 🤔

[worn delta]

What version of Main are you running?

[cobalt junco]

I downloaded and tried the Zelda OOT (USA) (rev 2) rom from N64 - Everdrive 64 2023-12-07. I still can’t seem to get the cheats to enable.

[worn delta]

Hmm, can someone who is at their MiSTer confirm what they have? I am on holiday in Turkey right now so can't check. Seems like we should have had an OS update since November though, but maybe we haven't

[cobalt junco]

I regularly run the update_all script roughly 1 once a week, doesn't it update the OS?

[worn delta]

It should but we had a case recently where for some reason it hadn't updated properly for one chap who was stuck on an older version of Main and it meant he couldn't load N64 ROMs. Just want to check something similar hasn't happened to you

[cobalt junco]

No worries i'll keep checking on my end. I'll look at the downloader.ini to verify the update_linux is set to true, I don't really go into it unless if i'm adding entries to get unstable builds.

[worn delta]

Wider question, are cheats grabbed automatically by the official downloader script by default still? Or did they move to update all and become optional? I.e. will everyone get all the chests by default or could some people have cheats set to off somewhere

[cobalt junco]

I was looking in the options under update_all to ensure I had selected to download cheats and couldn't find it, so I suspect it's on by default.

I can verify the N64 cheats did download via update_all after I deleted the folder in ../Cheats/N64

[worn delta]

Hmm, that is curious. When you run update all do you see a list of cheat DBs it is checking at the start?

[cobalt junco]

yes and at the very end i don't have any errors being reported

[worn delta]

Hopefully someone can pop in and confirm what version of OS they are running if only so we can rule that out

Only other thing I can think of that can cause issues, but I can't see how it would here, is if you have a really old .ini file as that doesn't get updated automatically you need to do those manually

[weary beacon]

Fwiw I get the same, cheats always greyed out and a main that hasn’t been updating properly with update all. Used an unstable main but cheats are still a no go.

[worn delta]

I wonder what is causing Main to not update for some people... Do you know what OS version you are on black Francis?

[blissful plaza]

I have the same OS version on my two systems.

OS v20231108

[worn delta]

Must be that hasn't needed an update since last year, thanks for confirming

[weary beacon]

v231108

Main is on the unstable 240331

[hearty oar]

OS version is for the Linux kernel, which isn’t related to n64 support files/cheats

You want MiSTer version, yeah

[worn delta]

Oh yeah, I misread the image, that Main file is from January so that is the issue @cobalt junco

[blissful plaza]

That's why I was surprised for a demand to check the OS and not the main Mister file too.

[worn delta]

Why you aren't getting updated Main by update all is another mystery though, maybe if you can get your update log file @whole tulip can take a look as seems a few people have been having this issue

[cobalt junco]

Good catch thanks will do

[worn delta]

Reading this on my phone with shades on, made me misread the Main date, sorry about that, that is definitely the issue though

[hearty oar]

I think that might actually be the latest stable release for main

240110 I mean

yep, it is

[weary beacon]

Yeah I think it is, I updated that yeaterday to the latest unstable, still no cheats.

[fair stump]

It can be hard to read a phone when you're wearing sunglasses by the pool and holding a mixed drink

[cobalt junco]

Yep grabbing the latest unstable now displays the cheats. Will send the logs to theypsilon

[worn delta]

I don't try troubleshoot N64 core issues often, but when I do...

[storm vessel]

You’re on vacation? Get off the internet 😜

[cobalt junco]

Looking at the update_linux.log shows

`===========================
Downloader 1.8 (c08) by theypsilon. Run time: 0:00:01.08s at 2024-05-04 16:17:09
Commit: c08b81c
Log: /media/fat/Scripts/.config/downloader/update_linux.log

Installed:
none.

Errors:
none.

linux: {
"hash": "a6651d603b5a6c825579b618d9550a1e",
"size": 93745153,
"url": "https://raw.githubusercontent.com/MiSTer-devel/SD-Installer-Win64_MiSTer/f498c08188793fb9e80c0c4cb0ad04fce9c1c307/release_20231108.7z",
"version": "231108"
}
Reading file contents "/MiSTer.version"
current_linux_version "231108" matches db linux: 231108`

So the last update to linux on MiSTer is 231108
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/SD-Installer-Win64_MiSTer
release_20231108.7z Release 20231108. 6 months ago

Latest Main MiSTer - Release 20240110
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/tree/master/releases

@whole tulip

Let me know if you need anything else

[spice rover]

good catch! I wonder if it has anything to do with the Mister version being from before n64 was added to Main

[worn delta]

Yeah, maybe if someone hadn't updated for a good while they are stuck for some reason. Is an odd one for sure. Maybe there is a way to force update everyone once and fix that for any stragglers.

[cobalt junco]

@worn delta #1096015979055697940 message
My image shows I was on the latest MiSTer / Linux OS to what update_all is offering. I didn't realise I had to update to an unstable MiSTer build for the cheat functions to be made available. I was looking at https://vampier.net/N64/ and under the cheats I read it as all I needed was the cheats/N64 directory to be in there for everything to work.

Thanks all for the help, much appreciated!

[worn delta]

You shouldn't need to be on an unstable Main for cheats to work, but no harm on being on the latest unstable

[cobalt junco]

Looks like the cheat stuff was added in Feburary? but the latest MiSTer main is 10th Jan

[worn delta]

I thought there was a new Main update with the recent iO board release before the FW updates started rolling out? Apologies if I was wrong there

[cobalt junco]

Was the MiSTer code forked to accomadate the new IO board?
I only know the latest version not unstable that's available which I believe update_all uses is from here with the latest release showing as 20240110:
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/tree/master/releases

[zinc dew]

No, wasn’t forked. Any official updates from Sorg are always rolled into the main distribution.

[hearty oar]

You can get the latest unstable build here, which has all changes to the point #unstable-nightlies message

As Robby said all these changes will eventually be in stable release, it’s just a series of commits to the main repo and at some point sorg will decide to cut a release

[hearty oar]

Linux version is not related to MiSTer version

Linux version is for the Linux kernel which comes from here, so that version is correct: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Linux-Kernel_MiSTer

Updater has given you the latest released versions of everything

[lament escarp]

That's the old one, without the latest nso fixes correct?

[hearty oar]

It’s the current release for MiSTer at least

[iron escarp]

Hello all! I'm getting in my snax64 adapter tonight finally! Is there an updated compatability list? I hear a small portion of games still have some graphical errors?

[fair stump]

The compatibility list is in the pins

[zinc dew]

that reminded me to update the pins

Oh I did, this is the other N64 chat

I guess I'll replicate it here

ok done, phew

[iron escarp]

Thank you 🙏 I relatively new to Discord servers. But I'm happy that Google searching is so garbage these days that I found you guys. This server is a lot of fun lol.

[zinc dew]

We’re happy you joined us. Welcome!

[night saddle]

Glad you're enjoying yourself! Lotta good folks here all enjoying classic gaming/computing 🙂

If you enjoy friendly score challenges we also do bi-weekly games down in the #game-challenge channel

[iron escarp]

Thanks! Mister has single-handedly gotten me back into retro-gaming. The hobby was just getting way too expensive, and emulation can only go so far. The real hardware experience is where it's at!

[iron escarp]

Neat! What games do you all play?

[night saddle]

all sorts. currently playing a commodore 64 game- crazy comets

last one was Wave Race 64 time trials. we do a bit of everything as long as it works well for a challenge

there's a suggestion thread also if you want to pick a game for a future challenge

[iron escarp]

Problem is I suck at all games lol. But I'd be down to watch/participate to see what they're like. How do I get invited to No Access?

[hearty oar]

open the "channels and roles" tab and you can choose which channels you want access to

[iron escarp]

Dope, thanks! 🙏

I'll be sure to come check it out sometime 😄

[weary beacon]

Lots of frame drops in Mario tennis, frequently hovering around 26fps. Quite a few in f-zero x too, especially when jostling in the pack. I don’t see the same in hdmi console footage on YouTube and always thought these were essentially locked at 60fps?

[wanton sun]

yes you don't see it there, they have no FPS counter 😛

[weary beacon]

Given your expertise in the matter I’m happy to accept that’s how they should be! But man, Mario tennis can seriously chug at times, I’m still being surprised at just how poorly these games could run.

[worn delta]

New MiSTer Main from Sorg, so everyone will have cheats available after running the update script 🙂

[neat sierra]

Cheaters never prosper

[junior pine]

But they live long 😉

[cerulean elk]

Nostalgia glasses plus a quantifiable frame rate counter really betray N64 performance. Games on OG hardware could just absolutely choke sometimes

That’s why generally I don’t run test videos with framerate counters on

[zinc dew]

What he said, people really forgot how poor perf was back then.

Also bad framerate wasn’t automatically awful. Sometimes it felt cool, like when there tons of explosions. It felt like you were doing so awesome that the console couldn’t keep up.

[cerulean elk]

I’m sure if you did a study where you polled 100 gamers in a controller environment; 50 playing with no frame counter and 50 with a frame counter on the same game in the same area with the same slowdown…you’d find people with no data on actual framerate thinking performance was better than the 50 who saw the frame counter

This is why I’m always talking about the feel and motion of a capture and the overall cadence vs pointing verbally to a number in the corner

Otherwise I’d be saying “this runs like crap. But it’s ACCURATE crap” vs “the motion and the gameplay are spot on and feel 1:1 accurate with real hardware performance”. Same footage, two wildly different take aways

[zinc dew]

Yeah we do perf tests, group A has access to a frame counter and group B doesn’t. When the framerate dips a little during action Group A always complains and Group B always says fps was perfect.

[cerulean elk]

Exactly. The worst thing is “letting people see how the sausage gets made”

[zinc dew]

yeah, need a control group which is A and the real feedback is from B

You sometimes get people who aren’t paying attention in A

[cerulean elk]

Both groups do say “it seems like a fat baby Hank Hill was involved” though

That is consistent I hear

[zinc dew]

All the time

Everyone looks at me and I just go “HEE HEE” and sip my Alamo beer

[cerulean elk]

“Those kids can’t understand frame rate Peggy I tell you what”

[viral portal]

"Them pixels ain't right"

[cerulean elk]

The pixels def have a narrow urethra

[weary beacon]

My surprise at f-zero dropping frames was mainly due to the narrative about how everything was kept simple to ensure a solid frame rate, which I then see isn’t the case. I don’t ever play with fps counter on, I only used it to confirm what I what I was seeing and feeling.

[zinc dew]

I love the random floating pipes lmao

[cold pollen]

It's a hack

[zinc dew]

Yeah, honestly same here too lol. I had to boot my original console and game up to confirm.

[lament escarp]

I think the conclusion should be that even bad/inconsistent framerates are better than the real world.

"Oh you think there are to few frames in your rocket car video game? How about no rocket car and you try and get that pos handy civic that smells like kid's vomit through inspection instead?"

[thorn flax]

Tell me how you really feel

[weary beacon]

Has anyone been able to confirm why for some people, the Mister wasn't updating? I had a similar issue, only fixed by updating to the latest Mister unstable build which fixed my cheats and N64 turbo core, both didn't work initially when I received my Mister from MisterAddons

I did both update and update_all

[vagrant ivy]

update all had a new main mister this morning

so you can see if it updates now

[lament escarp]

Finally all can share in the magnificence that is automatic save transfer between gameboy and n64 cores!

[hollow rune]

Wait. What?

[lament escarp]

Main got updated. So that feature is now available for everybody.

[viral portal]

I'd love a pos handy over no handy at all 😏

[lament escarp]

I meant honda now I'm not gonna correct it.

[eternal ravine]

With Rambo on Genesis, you can spam the bombs until the system crawls. Super fun. I got it to freeze once when I was a kid

[zinc dew]

Hahaha that’s awesome

[eternal ravine]

That game is basic yet oddly satisfying

[covert bough]

True lies on snes/Genesis is legit good

[wind lark]

https://www.theverge.com/24146590/n64-speedrunning-mariokart-controllers-joysticks-world-records
By William Poor, a video producer, story editor, and reporter with over 10 years of experience crafting news and documentary video. Will joined The Verge in 2017.
May 5, 2024, 6:30 AM PDT

"On this episode of The Vergecast, we explore a looming crisis in the Nintendo 64 speedrunning community: players are grinding their controllers to plastic dust and at such a quick pace that optimal N64 controllers are growing scarce. We also speak with Beck Abney (abney317 on Twitch), a Mario Kart 64 speedrunning legend who is dealing with an even more bizarre, personal form of controller hell."

[cerulean elk]

https://youtu.be/IGpjc4xQxrQ

calling it...its playable!

[eternal ravine]

are conker and jfg basically the problem games now?

[gaunt star]

I know I’m not the only one in this boat but, the most appealing thing about the core being able to run Conker in the future is that it would likely run better than stock

Esp the turbo core

Conker is a fun game to play and visually impressive for the n64 but my goodness is the framerate abysmal

[cerulean elk]

Basically. I have a testing video on Conker and Gauntlet coming next

[gaunt star]

I know that will likely only happen though if someone is able to do a romhack for it

[empty cliff]

I thought there's also gauntlet and battle for naboo

[languid dune]

Haven't tested it myself, but the turbo core also fixes Wonder Project J2 as well right?

[cerulean elk]

Gauntlet yes. That vid is uploaded. Just hasn’t run. I also have a Conker ready to go. Naboo is next

[cerulean elk]

Yes it does

But that one I don’t think I’ll do a vid for. It’s so visually not fun to watch people play. Awesome game. Not exactly great on YT IMO

[languid dune]

You have disappointed androids everywhere. For shame.

[cerulean elk]

Good thing your mom isn’t an android because I never disappoint her. Satisfied 10/10 times

[languid dune]

I mean obviously Dad, I wouldn't exist without you and Mom!

[cerulean elk]

GO CLEAN YOUR ROOM

[languid dune]

Never!

[pallid hill]

does anyone have any custom modlines for 5x or 6x scaling for the n64 core?

[sullen harbor]

Where is this new 80mhz core? All I see is one from like 2 weeks ago

[cerulean elk]

Updates, not updated 🙂

[sullen harbor]

ah

[zinc dew]

best console of all time, prove me wrong

[zinc dew]

damn, one and done

you win again @cold pollen

[cold pollen]

as I do in all things

[sullen harbor]

Ah the NGAGE it's the GOAT...se

[zinc dew]

Watching the video, seems cool it works well.

Did we find out why JFG consistently crashes?

[cold pollen]

Did we find out why JFG consistently crashes?

The Jet was made by Boeing

[zinc dew]

omg lol

[cold pollen]

That's right I'm topical AF

[manic basin]

It requires DMA timing that is unattainably precise, is my understanding.

In a shared memory space.

[cerulean elk]

Cause it’s a bad game

[manic basin]

Also that.

[cerulean elk]

That’s why Bomberman Hero works perfectly

[zinc dew]

Thank you @manic basin and @cerulean elk

[cerulean elk]

Andy Bacon at your service

[zinc dew]

Bomberman Hero is a fun game, I should play it more

[wanton sun]

The issue with instabilities on the turbo core is that it could either be the game crashing or just that the turbo core is unstable because it pushes to timings beyond what the DE10-Nano can do according to intel/altera. A good indicator is that if a game is 100% stable for one user and is not for another user, then it's more likely the DE10-Nano being run beyond specs

[pastel fjord]

"Third whistleblower dies after N64 Discord indiscretion"

[wary stag]

where can I get the N64 Turbo core? Sorry if been asked?

[cerulean elk]

The fun is in the variables haha. I do let everyone know that “what I see may not be what you experience” but from my RE 2 play through it was rock solid stable. Standard issue MiSTer. No OC

[cerulean elk]

#test-builds

[zinc dew]

Check the pins too if you ever have any questions about a core.

[cerulean elk]

Who here has a capture card? I want to do a group text of something potentially Conker related. And I’d want as many people as I can get 🙂

[lament escarp]

I can photograph my tv.

Does that count?

[fair stump]

✋

[cerulean elk]

Sadly no

[hasty musk]

What id like to see:

Can you make a video from real n64 hardware from perfect dark framerate compared to n64 normal core and turbo.
If u can do this u would make me so happy

[cerulean elk]

There will be real hardware tests eventually

I still have Core vs 64 and core vs NSO emulation on my lists

[hasty musk]

I know its hard work

[lament escarp]

Isn't a comparison to nso kinda savage? The nso emulation got shit on from day one and I never heard anything good about it.

[cerulean elk]

haha thats the point

drag Nintendo

[lament escarp]

What's next? @hollow rune fighting a real grizzly in her next stream?

[fair stump]

Save needs to match the rom name, right?

[lament escarp]

Yes

[eternal ravine]

I have one of those E1s cards inside this PC
Gets kookoo quality capturing videogames

It was like $60 on fleabay

And used to retail for a mint

[cerulean elk]

I was able to get what I needed 🙂

[lament escarp]

I'll feature in another vge vid some day. Vge vs quirrin, who is the real spare ribs king? Oh it's Robby. Of course it's Robby.

[cerulean elk]

@zinc dew is the McRib king

[manic basin]

No, Robby is the girlfriend God would make if he TOOK your McRib as a source.

He tried it with a Popeye's spicy chicken first, but that's how he ended up with Lilith.

[cerulean elk]

Dont say Popeyes

my number 1 loss for this celiac garbage....Popeye's chicken

[manic basin]

I'm...so so sorry. I just didn't have it today.

Did that lie comfort you? Because I did.

[cerulean elk]

my beloved chicken

it better not have been a spicy chicken sandwich

[manic basin]

Of....course ... it ... wasn't.

(it was. It obviously was)

[cerulean elk]

a morbid joke if there ever was one

[manic basin]

I won't say it was delicious. Because I don't have to.

Last time I was at this particular one, the cajun fries sucked. But they were good this time around. No gluten, so ... at least you can get a mouthful of those!

[cerulean elk]

Next time adi is out of town I’m just gonna slam one and keep quad ply TP and max strength tums on hand

[eternal ravine]

They have pills you can take now before a potential immune system freakout

Histamine stuff

Might at least reduce the ass trauma

[cerulean elk]

Wait what?

[eternal ravine]

Like if you know you're going to get exposed to something that could cause an allergic reaction

I guess they can mitigate the severity

HistaminX, D-Hist, etc

Not sure what they could do for celiac fallout

[languid dune]

It's going to be a bloodbath. NSO

[zinc dew]

I think this is important. Most people only know of official emulation solutions and they are woefully behind community ones.

Highlighting inadequacy gives the developers more power to request a budget to fix their official emulators.

[stone pilot]

This exact thing happened with NSO N64, which has been pretty nicely fixed since its pathetic initial release

[cerulean elk]

Yeah it’s not like I’m ever mean about it but NSO N64 sucks donkey you know what

[iron escarp]

My capture card arrives tomorrow. Totally down to help if able 👍 I would love to see N64 core fully working

[cerulean elk]

After I run the vid we can all group test my “theory”

[iron escarp]

Sounds cool! Full disclosure though I’ve never played Conker but it’s always been on my backlog. Hope I can still help even though it’ll be my first “playthrough”

[cerulean elk]

There’s no requirements except “play game, report results” so it’s dead ass easy

[iron escarp]

Dope lol. Excited to hear about this theory

[cerulean elk]

It’ll be a fun vid. Basically I believe I’ve found a way to get the freezing in Conker down to an extreme minimum. All the standard “loves to crash doing X” or “loves to crash at X” are def diminished from testing I did today and @fair stump helped with

It’s not the magic bullet it’s like the magic rubber band gun

[iron escarp]

Sounds awesome! You always make great videos dude 🙂 can’t wait for it

[cerulean elk]

All edited up. Just gotta VO tomorrow and ship it at four

[iron escarp]

Also I couldn’t help but notice that your last weekly 3DO game showcase was three weeks ago. Don’t tell me there’s only eight (8) games on it xD My “Buy a 3DO” bar is starting to go down because you stopped hyping it up!

[cerulean elk]

Haha I didn’t make the last few episodes

I make X amount and schedule them. If the series does well I add in the last few. If it’s meh views I’ll skip

[iron escarp]

No! I demand you drop everything else you’re doing in work and life and make the videos that I want right now!

https://tenor.com/view/pouty-face-lip-baby-sad-gif-25856965

[iron escarp]

Jkjk No love for 3DO is sad though. It’s a genuinely interesting console that isn’t talked a whole lot about.

[cerulean elk]

Haha you’d be surprised what people demand. Someone’s mad I said pressed CDs aren’t the same as CD-R and now is saying I need to debate them on their twitch stream 🤣

[iron escarp]

WHAT!? People still act like that when politics aren’t the topic? Don’t give him the free clout

That’s insane though

[cerulean elk]

You deal with a lot of insane people

[iron escarp]

Oh my god the cringe levels are fucking radioactive with this one

Dude is either 11 or 46 and definitely doesn’t own a 3DO

[cerulean elk]

Haha that’s after I banned him yesterday. Just using a diff account

Probably @zinc dew again bothering me 🤣

[iron escarp]

And lives in an area with no grass in sight

[iron escarp]

No fucking way

Some people need their internet privileges revoked permanently

Starting with the debatelords

All of them

No exceptions

[plush summit]

VGE Diss Track is droppin' soon

[iron escarp]

Oh god I can’t wait to see who has a secret daughter with an Atari 2600

[cerulean elk]

Haha LRG vid is about as mean as I get on YT

And they had it coming

[iron escarp]

We all know who’s the pedo though. Sam_Bibly’s favorite pastime is probably debating age of consent laws

[cold pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/chicago-musical-2002-cell-block-tango-he-had-it-coming-gif-26433114

[iron escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-crowd-jumping-concert-drake-concert-gif-21397277

[cerulean elk]

I’m just mad he’s using Master Shake. Giving shake a bad name!

[plush summit]

Seriously though, yeah, its just people jumping on someone's wagon for clout. They can't build their own channel/community, so better off stealing someone else's lol

[iron escarp]

I mean the bibly in his hand makes me even more wary of him at that point xD

[fair stump]

VGE vs MVG

[iron escarp]

And so he wants to debate a topic that can easily be settled by owning a 3DO and putting a CD in it? Has there been a new patch lately because I swear there’s more NPCs populating than usual xD

[plush summit]

My only problem with MVG is that he's not the voice of developers in the industry, he has to pull punches because he can't afford to piss anyone off

[iron escarp]

VGE meanwhile says it how it is

He’s gonna make retro gaming great again!

[cerulean elk]

Haha I did enjoy debate in HS. Because it was arguing for extra curricular credit 🤣

[plush summit]

If MVG says a word about Unions, he's black balled forever 🤣

[iron escarp]

Awbacon: “The core developers yearn for the mines”

Logging off now, too much politics for one day xD @cerulean elk hit me up when you need me to start playing Conker 👋

[zinc dew]

I actually think it’s really good for a commercial product and that’s due in part to the hardcore fans pointing out the flaws.

And thanks to the MiSTer core it’s easier for a lot of people to make those comparisons now.

[cerulean elk]

It didn’t start out too hot. You’d have thought Nintendo would have just sued someone who made an emulator and taken their money and source code to do it right 🤣

[zinc dew]

Well I’m excited for the video. It’s a great idea.

[cerulean elk]

I’ve got so much fun N64 stuff coming

Honestly the best stuff comes after the core is complete. Not chasing updates but getting into the real fun

[neat sierra]

You should have agreed but then sent Taco to just troll him

Oh wait he knows your voice, it would be a short lived troll

Have Taco open with “I have a cold and I talk slow now..bitch”

[cerulean elk]

He’s still going too 🤣

He must have issues

[neat sierra]

Oh he’s Master Shake, now I read that in Master Shakes voice it all makes sense

[cerulean elk]

Lol maybe it’s just a shake bot

[zinc dew]

@cerulean elk debate me on stream you coward!

[cerulean elk]

I don’t debate people from Texas. You get all shooty shooty pew pew when angry

“GET OFF MY LAND”

[zinc dew]

Just accept cdrs are the same as manufacturing CDs. Why are you hating on the small guy who’s making a living while the fat cats in factories make the same thing but say it’s more authentic.

Limited run takes care of us and this is how you treat them???

orange technology

[cerulean elk]

🤣

I kinda like him now

[zinc dew]

ok he’s trolling, no one says “disrespect my art” seriously

[cerulean elk]

On that note I’m watching tv haha

See y’all tomorrow

[zinc dew]

👋

[neat sierra]

Shit that guy came out of nowhere and went from tool to winning the debate

[manic basin]

I am 30 or 40 years old and I do NOT need this.

[languid dune]

Seeing how insane some of the people are in the comments on bacon's videos can be genuinely frightening sometimes!

[lament escarp]

I didn't know we get to make demands. I demand you come to my next birthday and bring @zinc dew , so people see I know famous internet people and that doom developers are really impressed by my skills. 😅

[orchid nimbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDNU9k8uTc4

[hollow rune]

I have one. I can help

[night saddle]

Sure. What you wanna do? I'll throw down some 1920x1440 footage for it

[night saddle]

attract modes might help keep things consistent. easy to match frames on scene changes for those and gauge performance

thats how I measured the SNES core turbo performance for the core's github

[fair walrus]

Ho i was hoping for good news 😢

[cerulean elk]

@hollow rune and @night saddle check your DMs 🙂

[cerulean elk]

Conker VO done. Coming in at a 22 minute video. Hope you all like Squirrels!

[cold pollen]

Wait does Conker somehow work without crashing now?

[cerulean elk]

I dont want to spoil it but it works with probably 80% LESS crashing now

[lament escarp]

U just spoiled it.

[cold pollen]

Eh, okay

[cerulean elk]

I am about six hours in and Ive barely crashed it / I am getting full crash handler data out of the crashes as to why

[lament escarp]

Thanks, I was so excited for the video

[cold pollen]

Is that in the turbo core or regular

[cerulean elk]

lol you will still watch

[cold pollen]

He makes videos? Big if true

[lament escarp]

He is like a wannabe mvg

[cerulean elk]

MVG is a wannabe VGE lol (he is not)

[lament escarp]

Your saving grace is that he doesn't nearly talk about mister enough for my taste.

One should all the time talk about mister!

[cerulean elk]

my highest viewer niche is MiSTer. My biggest actual niche is rare ass hardware

[lament escarp]

I prefer my hardware well done.

[cerulean elk]

I like my hardware like I like my steak...rare

[languid dune]

Incredible crash dummies are returning today!?

[compact depot]

Conker mojo? 🤔

[cold pollen]

Can you show an example of ass hardware? Rare or otherwise

[cold pollen]

Turbo core or regular

[cerulean elk]

Turbo

[cold pollen]

Ahh, does that core break any games

[gusty cobalt]

I have n64 question. Not one single n64 works all black screen

What did I do wrong

[lament escarp]

You got the pif?

[cerulean elk]

Sure I can send you a photo of Jaguar

[cerulean elk]

Yep!

[gusty cobalt]

Pif?

What is that?

I thought I can run any n64 file fine

[lament escarp]

It's like the n64 bios, you need to get it from somewhere. We can't link it here.

[gusty cobalt]

Ooooooooooooo

Where do I put that baby?

In n64 root folder?

[lament escarp]

Games folder

[gusty cobalt]

Ooooh

[lament escarp]

Games/n64

[gusty cobalt]

Aaah!!

Hehe so my n64 hardware is missing the bios chipset 😃? Got. It.

Thank you

[lament escarp]

Yeah there was something about pal/ntsc pif. Don't quite remember which one is boot.rom and boot1.rom.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_MiSTer

This should help you.

[worn delta]

Just run update all with BIOS DB selected (press up when you first run it to enter the menu). That will get you the BIOS files you need for N64 and pretty much all the other cores that need BIOS files.

[cerulean elk]

https://youtu.be/vgZb_HCutkM

here you go all: we are testing the Oct 2000 prototype. Full debug and crash handler. Much more stable. Please test and if you do crash it send me screenshots of the crash handler error messages. I will be compiling those and sending them to a friend with experience in N64 development. I also have some other stuff in the works 🙂

sorry obv cant link that version of the game here

the crash handler is shown in the video and thats what I am compiling

Ive had four other people test and send in results so I could do the VO and its been consistently much better and hoping somehow I can get it over the finish line into perfect

[eternal ravine]

Do the remaining "problem games" exhibit the same sorts of issues? Or different depending on game

[cerulean elk]

No clue. I don’t have debug for them

I’m just doing this for Conker since you can get full crash handler reports. Dunno how the other games act / if they have debuggers in game

I’ve also getting a copy of retail Conker so I can mod it to auto tilt itself and unlock full debug on real hardware

[manic basin]

This made me try the kiosk demo for JFG. It still crashes, but I get further.

[cerulean elk]

If anyone wants to test the prototype on real hardware and lmk if it ever crashes that would be very helpful too as that’s a variable I need to get an answer to

[fair stump]

I assume you're sending the crash stuff to top men?

[manic basin]

TOP. MEN.

<minor key John Williams plays>

[cerulean elk]

Power top men

[worn delta]

Did an issue get raised for the telescope bug in Majora's Mask?

[manic basin]

I saw someone talk about it a long time ago if it's the one where skullkid sort of just floats off.

[worn delta]

Looking now it looks like it did not. Also next to none of the known issues have been added...

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_MiSTer/issues

We did a good job finding all the bugs, we should really get them logged now the core is in Main...

[worn delta]

No, this is a new one found about a week ago that someone posted videos of here, the transition isn't correct when using the telescope. This is why we really need to be logging these issues...

[mossy needle]

What is the version of Conker I need to find for the debug called?

[versed cairn]

look in the video description. it talks about it. don't know how much more I can say

[mossy needle]

Ohh I found it! Thank you!

[versed cairn]

This is so cool. I'm gonna do some testing too. see if I can get some good crashes

[marble cargo]

I haven't bothered with any bug hunting because I know core development has stopped for the foreseeable future.

[manic basin]

To @worn delta's point, documenting isn't so much about asking for a fix as it is keeping track of the issues for things like porting, eventual maintenance releases, or new knowledge making old roadblocks surmountable. It's good to have them. I document as much as I can in other cores. I just don't have a real N64, so I have no idea what's a bug and what's just the hardware jank from the console. But if you're sure it's an issue, you should document it. Open source lives and dies by well documented issues.

Plus some minor bugs might be oversights and while getting more features implemented/more games working is shelved, minor fixes are probably something that will still get picked at on occasion.

[fair stump]

I kind of assumed the final bugs made their way to the issue tracker but I didn't really follow it

[worn delta]

Yeah, having them logged on GitHub is a resource for knowing what the issues are not a demand for them to be fixed. The problem is we had tracked a lot of these issues on here and in sheets but anyone coming new to the core isn't going to see these, and as time goes on they will be forgotten.

Getting all the known issues logged now will pay dividends in the future when it is possible to fix the found issues and improve the core further on a future core. It would be great if we could collectively get what we know logged in GitHub.

[compact depot]

conker wen

[cerulean elk]

Conker now. Go get me test results. I need all that juicy data

[versed cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/date-everywhere-data-digital-marketing-gif-24166770

[compact depot]

Do I need a specific rom?

[cerulean elk]

October 2020 decrypted rom

You’ll need to rename the file from .rom to .z64. Endianness is correct

[compact depot]

Awesome! Will give it a try and report back

[zinc dew]

Just wanted to say I appreciate you being vague about it.

[cerulean elk]

Gibs me da ROMZ

Perfect. Optimally I need what was happening when it crashed and the crash handler data

[cerulean elk]

Most common is this

Lesser common is “cpu halt”

[mossy needle]

Me is have rom?

[cerulean elk]

Also if you can grab screens of the memory map that’s useful

(That’s the memory map from the heap crash)

Without a legend I’m guessing but I’m assuming red is allocated and in use, white is free, green is current address being written / read and black…unavailable? Honestly I need to get in touch with someone from rare and I have a few messages out there

I’m particularly interested in the one black address / space to the right of the two green

[eternal ravine]

Will Awbacon solve the N64 core

[cerulean elk]

I can’t do that here but it’s just the October 2000 conkers bad fur day prototype

[neon heron]

Looks like an old defrag screen

[cerulean elk]

I’m motivated. I’m a shit coder. But I’m a very good researcher and “band leader”. Generally I always have SOMEONE I can send things off to for help

Current thoughts; if the prototype is freezing ONLY because of memory issues (core has 8MB, dev kit has more)…could we poke at the core and expand ram? Would the prototype see and try to write to this? Because I can’t 100% say it’s a core issue. It could be a “prototype runs on dev kit. Dev kit has more memory. We’ve overrun the 8MB on a retail N64 with ram expansion and the freeze is truly out of memory” issue

PSX / Dreamcast prototypes often won’t run on retail hardware since they are looking for a double compliment of RAM. So they will work fine under emulation but not retail spec. Next step is running this on OG hardware / Ares and seeing what happens

[plush summit]

The Conker prototype reminds of the Majora's Mask Debug rom

[cerulean elk]

Also you can access debug on a retail Conker with a code and a cart tilt. So I want to compare locked off areas (cutscenes, static camera lock offs) on both versions and see memory usage

I just gotta buy a Conker. Not in my collection

[plush summit]

Wouldn't it be possible for someone to hack in the Debug screen statically on a retail rom?

[cerulean elk]

Possibly. Quicker to grip it and rip it on hardware though

[dusty tusk]

Could GameShark the original game cartridge instead of tilting it

Unlock Debug 800E9D04 00FF

I just got that code from a very period appropriate angel fire page so no idea how legit it is
https://www.angelfire.com/rebellion/conkerscrib/hackshack.html

[cerulean elk]

Ooh well shit. That’s easier 🤣

I need to find a Conker to buy. I haven’t seen any listings that open the cart. I don’t want to drop a Buck and change for a repro to show up

[fair stump]

Word is that @cerulean elk will have one conker working by Christmas

[eternal ravine]

Halfmas, so by the end of June??

[cerulean elk]

2028. Again…artist not engineer 🤣 but you never know

[mossy needle]

I know I was just poorly playing off one of your texts

[lament escarp]

I would love it if MVG would make a video about VGE and explain how he fixed conker on mister.

[eternal ravine]

Can we involve Neil @ RMC somehow

[lament escarp]

Also, are we supposed to only test on turbo core like in the vid or also on the normal one?

[manic basin]

Throw Adrian in there as well, just to say it freakin' works.

[eternal ravine]

I just want to see Neil's glittering blue eyes

That recent arcade cab restoration was pretty epic
https://youtu.be/dQ6A9IH2bGQ

Their group has so many skills between them

Speaking of, what happened to the RMC handhelds for MiSTer?

[manic basin]

It was a really fun watch. Beautiful cabinet.

[worn delta]

How much ram did the dev kits have? That feels like something that could be supported in the future for sure

[hasty musk]

What i found is 16mb ram

http://n64devkit.square7.ch/n64man/u64/u64.htm

[worn delta]

Good find, a shame that never came up during core development, probably not possible to add at this stage but hopefully @wanton sun can consider supporting it for the future if some games would benefit from it. We would probably need another ram value supported by the database file that sets ram etc. per game

[hasty musk]

I think Robert was saying logic is almost full. But he will know

[lament escarp]

Is the ram size really that logic restricted? Iirc the ram used to be uncapped, which games like donkey kong really didn't like.

[cerulean elk]

Haha Neil and I are involved. He should be receiving a package I shipped him today

[cerulean elk]

Yeah standard back then was dev kits had 2x ram of retail

[lament escarp]

@cerulean elk really excited for this conker project. Maybe you mentioned it before but could you please provide the exact testing conditions? Only turbo or also regular n64 core? Could you provide a checksum for the debug rom in question?

[cerulean elk]

Turbo only for my footage

I’ll get the checksum when I get to my computer in a bit

[lament escarp]

Thank you. If you get conker to run on the core (bonus if it also runs on the normal core) you're my hero.

[vagrant ivy]

I thought Robert had already exhausted all avenues. I dont think reopening the problem is helping

[zinc dew]

Game could be patched or the core might see an update down the line

[lament escarp]

Yeah that's how I understood it as well. Only change to the core that's been floated was allowing for more ram to be usable (again).

[cerulean elk]

we aren't reopening the problem. I am poking at shit for pokes sake

I did get some more results in overnight. Crashing def reduced on Oct 2000 prototype. One person two hours in had two crashes. Another person 2 hours in had zero

so now Ill take the crash data coming in and chart it. Take that and send it to people I know who do N64 stuff. See what they think

[zinc dew]

Are saves interchangeable?

[cerulean elk]

haven't checked yet honestly

plant shopping for garden with my wife last night so had no time

[eternal ravine]

That's how they get you

[cerulean elk]

today I need to source and buy a Conker cart for debug on retail

[eternal ravine]

I bet that will cost a small sum

Make sure it's graded

[cerulean elk]

yeah ill probably spend too much money banging my head against the wall on this one

[hasty musk]

What is your goal to find ?

[cerulean elk]

You can get debug on retail too

I want to compare locked off cutscenes / other areas that you can have 1:1 experience between near final proto and retail....compare memory allocation and usage across the two both while running and in crash reporting

[hasty musk]

Can that help to fix it? Or is it just curiosity?

[cerulean elk]

first steps are collecting data. I need a bunch of reference points to better understand the ins and outs of WHY its crashing and if its crashing consistently across real hardware / core on the prototype version

I know some people that do game dev stuff for N64 so I can have them take a look

from there Ill decide what makes sense next. Could attempt to use Ghidra to decompile the game. Thats hard because I dont know exactly what RARE used when compiling. But thats a possiblity

[hasty musk]

Wow.

[cerulean elk]

and all this COULD also end up with me not achieving jack shit except saying "yo prototype is way more stable. Play that"

I mean I am close to finishing a "fun playthrough" of Conker on the prototype and Ive crashed five times total and lost maybe 5 minutes total backtracking. So honestly...I consider that playable. Now would zero be better? Absolutely

[inner isle]

What's missing from the prototype

[cerulean elk]

nothing...just small graphical differences here and there

so I just played Conker for like 2+ hours in Ares. The prototype build. No crashes. GitHub code just has a compliment of 8MB total RAM so the build is intended to run within the allocation of a retail N64...so no amount of changing RAM in any situation would seemingly benefit performace in CORE hang wise

[inner isle]

So the prototype uses the same amount as ram as the official release? Shouldn't it behave the same then if its a ram latency crash?

[cerulean elk]

Not necessarily. The prototype is based off a diff code base so it’s likely it’s not hitting ram the same way

I have an everdrive on the way to test on real hardware with the debugger so I’ll find out more then

So far I’ve only gotten one crash report in so I’m still V short on info

[inner isle]

Well done for persevering with this. Its a big title for the N64, so I know its a bummer being one of the crash victims. Some smart fellow will most likely create a patch for it or hack the rom.

[cerulean elk]

Gives me something fun to do and I get some videos out of it

[fair stump]

Oh he's just doing it for the views

[cerulean elk]

Order of operations; test proto in core (done), test proto in Ares (done), test proto on real hardware (in progress), generate more crash handler reports (in progress)

[cerulean elk]

Why else capture all this damn footage 🤣

Package all crash handler reports up. Sift through data with people smarter than me. Profit?

[eternal ravine]

The love for Conker isn't because it's the GOAT or whatever
It just has really good graphics and sound for N64, plus it's uniquely British

Efforts are greatly appreciated

[eternal island]

i see you need someone to crash conker

i will get data from the crash test. i wonder if this version of conker can pass

did anyone else run the crash test that guaranteed one

finishing the barn area, starting on roof, jump down, run through tunnel to the water on the other side, splash in and out of water a few times constantly running back to stairs

will crash in a few seconds on retail

[fair stump]

I tried that and it was pretty darn stable

Didn't get a crash there but did in the water area with the turrets and eel

[cerulean elk]

Yes this is proving to be way more stable. Im done with my proto playthrough on MiSTer. Minimal crashing, very enjoyable

Next is OG hardware. Im gonna end up playing Conker half a dozen times by the time I am done

[vapid moat]

@cerulean elk

Brave undertaking you're doing here. Wishing you all of luck

[cerulean elk]

I’ll need it haha

[lament escarp]

Try and beat the wr while your at it. 🤡

[cerulean elk]

I’m gonna beat the world record for missing jumps. I hate the jump in Conker. Feels so laggy even on real hardware / MiSTer

Run off so many f’ing cliffs

[fair stump]

They put auto jumping in OoT for people like you

[vapid moat]

Conker jumps too realistically lol

[magic girder]

I wonder if the reason the prototype crashes less often than retail has anything to do with some kinda copy protection? Like tighten up the timings etc for the retail build to make it hang if timings aren’t perfect or whatever

Or I’m just talking out of my arse 🙂

Or some kind of optimization to try and get an extra fps here and there

[cerulean elk]

Conker jumps like he's doing the uh oh shuffle towards the bathroom and has to be very slow in all his movements

[cerulean elk]

Once I get the everdrive I can look at CPU/memory usage on real hardware vs MiSTer vs retail and see what the variables are on most of it

[magic girder]

I have faith that you’ll at least learn something

But good find on the proto. Not crashing as much is definitely a win

Worse case scenario I wonder if someone could do a proto -> retail patch for any noticeable differences

[cerulean elk]

There’s a differences list and it’s legit basically punctuation and one cutscene has a slight change

Legit the differences

[compact depot]

Pretty sure it crashes at the same rate on OG hardware 😌

[cerulean elk]

Did you text or?

I wasn’t able to crash it at all on Ares

[compact depot]

Nah. I’m just being an ass, as usual

[cerulean elk]

Haha ahh I was gonna say. I had to drop $140 on the damn everdrive just to test 🤣

[compact depot]

I really hope we get to the bottom of it

[cerulean elk]

And another $130 for a retail cart. I’m $270 into this damn testing

[compact depot]

And find the reason and a fix

Even it’s a rom patch

[cerulean elk]

At this point im expecting real hardware NOT to crash. Which is fine. Isolating the problem is good data in and of itself

[compact depot]

I think the reported crashes on the console is from pirated copies of the game

Maybe it uses slow eprom chips

[cerulean elk]

Yeah it’ll be interesting to see

[compact depot]

I think there are some reports on Reddit

[cerulean elk]

I was hoping ares would crash and I could use debugger but damn thing was stable

[compact depot]

Of fake carts that crash eventually

[cerulean elk]

I want to find a pcb for a funny video

[elfin depot]

There's another that qualifies but not sure if it's safe to post here

[worn delta]

Going back to this Conkers prototype and the 16mb ram that the dev kit has, does any emulator support 16mb ram and does it make a difference with this or anything else?

[cerulean elk]

Ares source code just shows 4/8MB. Went through the git

So this build seems to be designed to run on retail hardware spec

https://github.com/ares-emulator/ares/blob/master/ares/n64/rdram/rdram.cpp

This proto could be magazine preview build or intended just to run on retail

[magic girder]

Yeah, very very minor. I just meant for those who really cared about it being the same as retail 😅

[cerulean elk]

Lol if anyone complains in the comments it’s not “retail” they can kiss my ass

[magic girder]

From the cutting room floor, I think the repeating sound effect you mentioned on your vid is actually a bug in the prototype build

[cerulean elk]

Yes it is. I got that in Ares too today

Diff scene. Same looping SFX bug. Diff sound but same symptom

[magic girder]

So there’s your biggest difference 😉

#literallyunplayable

[marble cargo]

By the way, Rayman 2 on the core has a bug where sometimes the game freezes on the screen asking if you want to save your game.

It has happened to me twice. Doesn't seem consistent, since it just randomly freezes. Though I noticed it only started to freeze in the latter half of the game.

[cerulean elk]

Haha the way people act I’m sure they’ll say it

People did that with Castlevania: The Arcade when I released it. “It doesn’t work well with AMD GPU’s. There’s some texture issues. Waste of time”…yeah cause it’s a rare never released for you to play arcade game that ran on XP embedded I MADE work on modern systems 🤣

[wanton sun]

16mbyte rdram isn't that hard to implement. Are we sure it is needed/helps with anything currently?

first indicator is that at least one of the "wants to write outside of RDRAM" error bits does trigger. If that is not the case, the game doesn't even try to find out if more than 8 mbyte exist

[compact depot]

Got the prototype rom. How do I enable debug on it?

[lament escarp]

I read something about "debug" as a cheat code

[manic basin]

That's for the cart tilt glitch. Though I saw something earlier about a Gameshark code to force it.

[worn delta]

Can someone post what error codes this Conkers prototype is throwing up, as per Roberts comments above?

[lament escarp]

I'll try and get the setup running, finally finished with my chores today. 👍

We want more cores and less chores, am I right? 😅

[lament escarp]

Sorry I only get a black screen when booting the October 25th prototype. I also tried booting regular conker first in case it doesn't know the proper cic.

[wind lark]

I got black screen for a .v64 file. After that I instead I used a .rom renamed as .n64 and that booted. Whether it’s the right thing to do or not I’m not sure.

[lament escarp]

Good to know! My dump also came with a .v64 and a .rom. will try.

[lament escarp]

That actually worked.

[worn delta]

What error code you getting, if any?

[lament escarp]

None, so far. But I'm still in the first level.

[worn delta]

Cool, is this regular core or turbo?

[lament escarp]

Turbo, since that's what awbacon wanted to test.

Can also check a look with the normal core.

But shouldn't affect ram usage, should it?

[cerulean elk]

Yes I said that in the vid to rename .rom

[lament escarp]

You know I use your vids to fall asleep so please put the important information at the beginning 😅

[cerulean elk]

I finished Conker on turbo core on proto. Five total crashes. Best was a little over three hours with zero issues. Turbo core. No changes otherwise

[lament escarp]

Did you also try it on regular n64 core? Is it turbo just for turbos sake or is turbo actually more stable?

[fair stump]

The regular core was surprisingly more stable at the normal water spot it would crash at

[cerulean elk]

Not yet

I just picked turbo because no real reason

If people want to test stock core and see what errors come up (in crash handler and in core E codes) go for it 🙂

[lament escarp]

Alrighty, I actually prefer stock n64 core for pretty much everything, but I also don't want to make testing more convoluted than necessary.

Did you vid also say how to open the crash handler?

[fair stump]

If the game crashes then the debug screen will just pop up

Just gotta use the "debug" cheat

I was recording so I turned off the error overlay so unfortunately I don't know if any popped up when testing

[lament escarp]

Cheat as in cheat menu of the mister or is it an internal cheat menu in the game?

[fair stump]

In the past the overlay hasn't said anything so I wouldn't really hold my breath there

In the main menu of the game there's a cheat entry screen at the fireplace

"Weldersbench" also unlocks all levels that you can then chapter select with

[cerulean elk]

Crash handler should come up even if debug cheat isn’t active

[lament escarp]

I'll try and play it regularly now on the regular core for the first time. How long is the game when you don't rush it?

[cerulean elk]

I did it in a little over eight hours but I just did what was essential to see the credits