Nintendo 64

[wanton sun]

haha you even added the comment 🙂

[odd vector]

Still the same :/

[native mesa]

@odd vector I haven't been able to keep up. What is your issue?

[odd vector]

many NTSC games are not showing correctly on my CRT. It just out of sync

Some games do work, some don't, like Lego Racers for example. I have provided a picture

[native mesa]

What is your CRT? Are you using an analog IO board? YPbPr?

[odd vector]

B&O MX 4000, Analog IO with VGA to Scart Adapter

[native mesa]

what does the screen look like?

Is the SoG switch set?

[odd vector]

#1096015979055697940 message

What's the SoG Switch? I mean everything else works. I have enabled composite_sync

[native mesa]

the analog IO board has a manual switch for sync on green. earlier revisions needed it. I think it can be controled in ini now in newer revisions

[odd vector]

it's set to off

[native mesa]

Try it. Doesn't RGB need sync on green?

Not sure how that scart adapter handles things

[odd vector]

with sog on it's still the same, edit: worse

[lean spruce]

It shouldnt need any of that as other NTSC cores work correctly. Its just a matter of analog is not yet implemented

[terse canyon]

tried a different scart input on your tv?

[native mesa]

He has a PAL monitor

[lean spruce]

me too

[native mesa]

@odd vector that modeline that was shared with you, you can try a different one for PAL 50hz

[odd vector]

you mean the resolution?

tbh: I don't understand what those numbers stand for

[native mesa]

Yeah I'll try to find one that may work

[odd vector]

thanks, thats very nice of you!

[marble cargo]

Banjo-Kazooie did something similar, where Grunty breaks the fourth wall by escaping while letting the credits roll for the enemies/NPCs in the game.

[mellow path]

I'm impressed, that game is tough

[manic basin]

Made a better '0 days' sign...

[weary beacon]

Does the n64 just add dither on top of banding?

Or is it like... One or the other for the mister core

[drowsy lantern]

Banding occurs as the result of the absence of dithering.

Or rather, dithering exists to smooth out the color banding.

[weary beacon]

So, in a basic sense, the n64 renders a banded image and then dithers it?

Banding is what is just underneath the dithering?

[versed cairn]

it dithers with the info

it's not just adding dither on top

[drowsy lantern]

It's not like a "filter applied on top" It's more like as the image is rendered, a real N64 will process the dither into it. Before that step was just missing from the core, so you got banding.

[compact skiff]

Banding is just the result of lack of color depth.

[eternal ravine]

Then you gotta blur the dithered banding

[compact skiff]

Dithering tries to remedy that.

[weary beacon]

I see

[drowsy lantern]

But also devs can disable the dither. Mario Kart 64 for example does not use dithering at all, so you get color banding regardless.

[versed cairn]

the n64 knows that the color is a gradient and uses that info to fill in detail that would be lost with dither

maybe i'm explaining it badly

think of it like dither is used as another color between two colors

[weary beacon]

Yeah

Is it possible to disable dithering on original hardware or no?

[versed cairn]

not that I know of

[orchid nimbus]

with a hammer everything is possible

[odd vector]

1080 is really strange: The stages suggest that you do some tricks on it, but it slows you extremely down

[weary beacon]

The lack of the color depth on n64 has never hit me until playing it on Mister

Only ever seen n64 games on a stock system through composite on a CRT

[native mesa]

@odd vector Can you try this

video_mode=720,21,65,82,288,2,3,19,13853

[versed cairn]

yo can't see it normaly on a n64

cause the de-dither "blur" filter

[weary beacon]

Well u could with deblur and disabled Aa

Yeah

Ive just never had any way to see it that wau

Way

[eternal ravine]

Started playing Banjo 1 last night. Good time

[devout leaf]

I'm super confused on what I'm doing wrong. I've never got the Mario 64 patch to work. Defacer is kicking out E080045.

[versed cairn]

everyone got really excited years ago when those codes were discovered to remove the blur, but I hate how it made the dither so noticable. games like star fox 64 it's really bad

[weary beacon]

Do you personally prefer to play with dither on or off

[odd vector]

sadly, it's garbled, distorted

[weary beacon]

Out of curiosity

[native mesa]

Yeah Idk that's a common PAL res

[versed cairn]

I personally like seeing more detail, which the dither allows. the patern is detracting though. my prefrence is dither WITH the debither filter

[drowsy lantern]

It's a weird question. Because dither as we see it right now is the result of missing features. Once the de-dither is in, playing with dither on will produce the better picture.

[versed cairn]

which we don't have yet

[native mesa]

What you see now is how it looks when people remove dedither on original hardware and deblur hardware mod

[odd vector]

don't worry too much, many games work for now. I will just wait for official RGB addition. 🙂
Blut is still missing, right?

[weary beacon]

yeah its kind of a bummer because the pixels are so sharp and clean but the dither is distracting

I guess we can hope for 24 bit color support

[versed cairn]

if 32bit color becomes a option like the psx core I would probably use that. but for now dither is better then no dither in my opinion. everyone is allowed to like and use whatever they like though. options are great!

[weary beacon]

Its 32 bit?

[native mesa]

I suspect a higher color depth would require a separate build with features removed

[surreal summit]

You could also try the Y/C builds if you haven't yet. Don't know if they effect RGB/YPbPr output but it is worth a shot. #1096015979055697940 message

[weary beacon]

Maybe through direct video only

[native mesa]

Might not be something Robert would do but anyone can

[eternal ravine]

The bummer is all the interlaced video when using expansion pack games

[versed cairn]

will see. I'm not gonna be disapointed if he can't do it, but I'm also not ruling anything out since Robert is the verilog Wizard

[eternal ravine]

Really wish I had a suitable CRT

[versed cairn]

At this point I don't even trust him when he says something is imposible lol

[eternal ravine]

Double rez!

[native mesa]

Oh it's possible, there just isn't a lot of space for extra features

[eternal ravine]

AA for the jagged edges is gonna be nice

[weary beacon]

I like the jagged edges

[eternal ravine]

Oh I see

[weary beacon]

Imagine

[native mesa]

AA at low rez is just bad looking

[weary beacon]

really doubt that tho

Given that psx doesnt do it

[cerulean elk]

Me too

[native mesa]

Me throo

[eternal ravine]

OK, I like them now too

[cerulean elk]

I’m making my first Mario playthrough texture filtering off big pixel mode

[native mesa]

haha

[cerulean elk]

See the game in a brand new way. I love that we can do that

[drowsy lantern]

Ew.

[native mesa]

Based, can we say that?

[weary beacon]

Texture filtering can stay on for me

[eternal ravine]

Yeah I spent some time last night in Banjo 1 toggling on/off options

[drowsy lantern]

I tried toggling off texture filtering a few times throughout my Banjo-Kazooie playthrough and could not stand it.

[eternal ravine]

I like turning off dither on 2D PSX games

[native mesa]

Depends how stretched the game does textures

[weary beacon]

I like seeing what it looks like on/off but i would never use it

[native mesa]

Mario 64 has some bad ones on ceilings and the desert

[weary beacon]

If games werent designed around texture filtering then i would use it

[weary beacon]

Isnt it just squares lol

[drowsy lantern]

Like you can tell the development teams intentionnally used very low-res textures in places because they knew it would get filtered out. Like, if texture filtering hadn't been built-in, they would have built things very differently.

[versed cairn]

filtering should be set to what the game was made with in my opinion. it's clear n64 looks the best with it on and psx looks the best with it off. but thats just me

[native mesa]

I guess you could say that about any graphic setting

[versed cairn]

dithering is more of a video out limitation though

[native mesa]

I always have AA off in modern games

[weary beacon]

Same

[native mesa]

smaller jaggies

[versed cairn]

I think you could argue dither doesn't make the game look better

it was just needed

[tulip coral]

Nah, it’s authentic!!

[native mesa]

I've done everything in my power on original hardware to remove it

[devout leaf]

Anyone know which version of Mario 64 is in the Everdrive pack? Trying to figure out which patch to use and having no luck.

[versed cairn]

pick your evil. blur or dither

[cerulean elk]

Lol I dunno. Connotation might be “bad” now

[tulip coral]

I get the argument against the Vaseline filter on N64. I just like to see the games exactly how they were I guess

… warts and all

[eternal ravine]

I like being able to see how the video sausage is made, switching options on/off

Reminds me of Flash back in the day, when I'd use low-rez assets and blur them into smoothness

[versed cairn]

I think through composite on a crt the N64 video choices make a lot more sense. not only did it have no dithering but it also had very little color banding artifacts of composite

[cerulean elk]

All the toggles is like filmmaking. You can take everything down to the “negative” and see what you have. Then build on top with color correction

So I’m just entertained by toggling options

[versed cairn]

blur is only a problem now cause of our better video quality and our modern TVs

[drowsy lantern]

Yes. Like, just take the skybox texture in the Star Fox 64 introduction. If the N64 wouldn't have had texture filtering, you very well damn know that the devs would not have used such a low-res texture for it, or would have cut elsewhere to make that texture look better.

[cerulean elk]

I was playing around with the core on my 70” and some pixels in Mario 64 were dinner plate sized. I loved it

Has a big Hyper Neo Geo look

Same level of geometry with no filtering

[native mesa]

I wish there was a 'smart' texture filter bar. So only super stretched textures are filtered but ones that aren't stretched much are not

That would probably require some tricky logic

[versed cairn]

another situation where the filtering off makes no sense is the ground in OOT. it's such a mess

[native mesa]

I played Dark Forces 2 that way. It wasn't trivial to remove texture filtering on those old engines

[drowsy lantern]

Yesterday I completed Expert mode in Wave Race 64. I'm still in awe of how good this game looks. Especially for a launch title. Every time I get to Twilight City I'm just in awe of all the reflection/lighting effects. It looks so good. The use of colors in that game is amazing.

[cerulean elk]

Beast Busters : Second Nightmare - Hyper Neo Geo 64 Long Play
https://youtu.be/sGJkobwDmJU

[weary beacon]

Also noticed filtering off mangles the ai

The ui

[cerulean elk]

If you watch the final boss level you will see what I mean. Big unfiltered textures that look near identical to what the core does with filtering off

[weary beacon]

My brain is fried

[eternal ravine]

@cerulean elk
What resolutions does that Hyper NG output

[brisk drum]

Jacked it!

[carmine kettle]

real hardware?

[cerulean elk]

Yes

[carmine kettle]

looks good

[cerulean elk]

15/24

[carmine kettle]

never seen that game before

[cerulean elk]

I’ve been saying for years that the Hyper was just an unfiltered 64. Now we can see it 🙂

[marble cargo]

I find it interesting how some games don't use the dithering. Mainly the 2D games don't use it from what I can tell.

[weary palm]

Have you turned ClearType off as well? 😉

[languid dune]

Just don't cut yourself on those edges!

I actually usually prefer the jagged edges for lower resolutions too. 🔪

[cerulean elk]

ESP on CRT. Let the tube do the work

[native mesa]

If fonts were raster graphics I would.

[hollow rune]

@fair stump we just tried to do it on another screen and the splotches don't show up

I think it might be the display, which was my mom's idea, but I told her it couldn't be, but it is. It works on a 1080 Monitor but splotches happen on the 4k TV

game mode is on though

[fair stump]

interesting. Unfortunately I know nothing about this stuff so I can't really offer any suggestions

[hollow rune]

Oh that is totally fine, I super appreciate your help though @fair stump . You are a good testing buddy

[strange mesa]

Hi guys, you have any idea, why RE2 is so squeezed on the BVM? Is it some unusual resolution?

[native mesa]

Do you have HDR enabled on the TV?

[hollow rune]

maybe. That input always gets removed and reattached since the MiSTer goes between two rooms. Maybe HDR is on by default since it is a Samsung 4k LCD

I always have to switch game mode back on

i have a shadow mask on too, which might affect it

[surreal summit]

Yes, try turning off the Expansion Pak (set system memory to 4MB) and resetting the game.

[hollow rune]

Mom is watching TV now though. Gotta wait to check

[strange mesa]

Did that. It doesn’t detect expansion pak anymore 😁, but the game is still squeezed.

[native mesa]

If it is an HDR thing you don't necesarily have to make changes on the TV side, you can adjust it in misteri.ini

hdr=0 ; 1 - enable HDR using HLG (recommended for most users)
; 2 - enable HDR using the DCI P3 color space (use color controls to tweak, suggestion: set saturation to 80).

[hollow rune]

will it still work okay on my none hdr monitor?

[native mesa]

It will still work I think it will basically be ignored

Might be washed out

[surreal summit]

Wasn't the High Res mode then (you can turn EP back on) I'm not sure beyond that and the aformentioned analog video settings. #1096015979055697940 message

[hollow rune]

will experiment and get back to you

[cerulean elk]

Lolol I don’t see it

[hollow rune]

I want a OoT hack that replaces Navi's hey with DW's hey from the Arthur title sequence

[kind solar]

need some vaseline on those cheeks

[orchid nimbus]

dude

[kind solar]

sorry

i mean the filter

[orchid nimbus]

modern lube is much better

[cerulean elk]

That’s a whole diff party

[modern sleet]

Use the YC build, I set multiple resolution timing changes

https://github.com/MikeS11/YC_Builds-MiSTer/tree/main/_YCConsole

[stone pilot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyqbCDSB26U

[surreal summit]

I was going to ask if it had any effect on RGB/YPbPr because I thought it might solve this issue as well: #1096015979055697940 message

[chrome quest]

I guess the YC build doesn't need any "N64" values in the yc.txt?

[native mesa]

I had the same question

[manic basin]

Steve Wiebe N64 grip confirmed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZPVVVBisBg
(The hyperbolic buildup by Jost is sublime. I'm sure a bunch of people will misinterpret it).

"Steve is a basketball."

[hollow rune]

This is low-key the hardest thing to do in the entire game

[cerulean elk]

And you lose so much time when it goes bad

[weary palm]

Nah.

[hollow rune]

It is easy to walk around, but something about the way the leaves curve over that plank really throws me

[weary palm]

Bombchu bowling for me, or horseback archery. xD

I suck at those

[hollow rune]

I like the bowling, and the archery I only did on 3DS which has motion which makes it easier

[weary palm]

God damn giant chicken

[hollow rune]

I like how everyone pushed for Zelda games to be darkand gritty like OoT was, even though it really wasn't. Even Twilight Princess is VERY silly. These are silly games

With giant chickens

[weary palm]

I much prefer Wind Waker before Twilight Princess

[hollow rune]

same

[weary palm]

TP felt very linear

[hollow rune]

Yeah, when I try to play another playthrough, even on the Wii U one, I tend to burn out and not finish. It is linear and you can feel it

i mean they all are except LBW and the Breath of the Tears

and the first one

but TW really drags

[weary palm]

I were just going to say that.

I haven't even finished it. I bought it for Wii back in 2007 but never finished it.

It didn't click with me.

[zinc dew]

forced stealth in Zelda sucks

[hollow rune]

Wind Waker works. That fortress place is pretty cool

[woeful grove]

I didnt like sailing around

[hollow rune]

I didn't like it in Minish Cap which I just played on MiSTer

[hollow rune]

Did you try it on Wii U with the swift sail?

[woeful grove]

no

[hollow rune]

it makes it a lot better

[woeful grove]

I wish they'd release that for switch

[hollow rune]

personally Phantom Hourglass was the worst.

[woeful grove]

overall wind waker was a great game

I just didnt like sailing

or the tingle tuner

tingle was creepy

[vapid hawk]

you can patch swiftsail and stuff into the original GC game

[modern sleet]

I manually forced it for now, I didn't want to added changes to main for a core that's in an alpha state

[hollow rune]

Tingle is like a deep Nintendo inside joke that we may never fully understand

[woeful grove]

it's like what you get when you cross a clown with a pedophile

[hearty oar]

He’s just a middle aged man that wants to be a fairy, nothing strange about that at all

[hollow rune]

There was a Did You Know Gaming about him, but I can't remember what it said

Like I think it is supposed to make fun of Koji Kondo the composer

[modern sleet]

It should address most of the sync issues for RGB/YC/component

[nova grotto]

which game is that ?

[zinc dew]

I imported that game for my flight back home from Japan. Was super excited to get it, I stopped by the import store a few days before I left to see if they got it in and finally on the day of my flight they got it. Was so stoked to play that game for the 12 hour flight.

THAT GAME FREAKING SUCKS

I was so mad lol

By imported I mean I bought the US version from a store in Akihabara called “Game Hollywood”

[chilly ember]

I actually finished phantom glass when it was new. It was pretty meh. Touch controls 🙃

[zinc dew]

It’s probably not bad lol

[cerulean elk]

Wind Waker is just below BotW/TotK for me

[native mesa]

Bote totk meh tier

[hollow rune]

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

[cerulean elk]

BotW/TotK>Wind Waker>OOT/Majora>Twilight Princess>Skyward Sword as far as 3D is concerned

[native mesa]

Zelda 2 gang

[hollow rune]

Like I like the stylus controls, The game is just ugly and the dungeons are bad

[zinc dew]

How do you like the stylus controls when your paws are larger than the system itself

[hollow rune]

My paws are small. I am a tiny Panda

[weary beacon]

I sometimes wonder what the reception and reputation of WW would be if they'd actually finished it

[zinc dew]

Ohhhhh ok

[native mesa]

Wdym

[zinc dew]

Or maybe you used that little thumb stylus

[versed cairn]

Yeah, those cut dungeons. I was hoping they would add some into the hd one but that’s too much work

[weary beacon]

Well the backend of that game got cut down considerably to make sure it could actually ship in time to keep the GameCube going. Mario Sunshine, too

[native mesa]

Miyomoto!

[vapid hawk]

i've never finished WW, literally always got bored and gave up when it sends you after the triforce shards

[weary beacon]

I think they said many of those cut ideas were repurposed for TP. That game kinda borrowed off what was left over

[versed cairn]

Makes sense. The series builds itself forward

[hollow rune]

Only for Mario 64 DS and Metroid Prime Hunters 🙂

[weary palm]

I enjoyed it more than TP 😆

Haven't played Spirit Tracks, though

[night saddle]

All the Wind Waker love here makes me happy 💞

[cerulean elk]

I was just talking about tiny pandas in voice over yesterday lol

[cerulean elk]

An all time classic. Wii U being the best version just for that fast sail

Now I want to play Wind Waker again damn it

[versed cairn]

wind waker has my fav zelda art style. I would love if they revisited it. don't think it has enough main stream apeal though

[raw oriole]

I'm glad I completed the WW figurine collection on the GC, means I never have any interest in doing it again. Also made me not care about 900 bloody koroks in botw.

[languid dune]

Low poly butt cheeks are peek butt cheeks.

[cerulean elk]

Dudes smuggling two cinder blocks down his wetsuit

[odd vector]

What can we expect with the next update?

[languid dune]

Didn't Robert mention something about working on VI next?

[raw oriole]

For a week or two. So probably later tonight.

[chilly ember]

He did but was saying it might a take a while

[native mesa]

I thought gifs were turned off

[odd vector]

Whats VI?

[languid dune]

So in Robert time, later tonight like Jaimie said. 😆

[native mesa]

Vaseline Implementation

[languid dune]

The blur filter that N64 is beloved/reviled for.

[odd vector]

Oh, thats nice!

[languid dune]

In all seriousness, the VI stands for Video Interface. But yeah, it's basically the vaseline filter.

[brisk drum]

I have a feeling Vaseline will be the next banned word

[languid dune]

Nah, that should be War Gods.

[brisk drum]

Game is so hard

But I refused to turn the difficulty to easy

[languid dune]

In classic Midway fighting games, "easy" is basically bang-your-head-against-the-wall-input-reading-BS difficulty.

[brisk drum]

Very true for MK II

[languid dune]

And "normal" difficulty is just 🖕 difficulty.

[cerulean elk]

Easy is hard, medium is impossible and hard is “ai reads every input and counters every one”

[languid dune]

Classic Midway.

Whereas SNK just made their bosses super OP, Midway was like, nah just have the game read every input and actually cheat by doing things the player cannot do.

[native mesa]

I bet it was Ed Boon's idea

[eternal ravine]

@brisk drum
I always try arcade games on max difficulty

Some companies are crueler than others

[brisk edge]

every time at work I have to write or test something that uploads files, I always use the war gods box art as my test file. I can't remember why I started to do that but, it's a tradition for me now lol

[versed cairn]

this talk reminds me of the Super Street Fighter II Turbo Difficulty Bug. game was always set to the highest difficualty regardless of the dip switches

basicly imposible to beat anyone in the arcade ladder

[brisk edge]

that's a bug in the US version at least, I think Japan has non broken difficulties

[versed cairn]

correct

it's unfortunate cause they didn't fix the bug in the street fighter collection they released a few years ago

and streamers were trying to show off the game and couldn't get anywhere lol

[brisk edge]

yeah that would be nice to fix, or at least have a toggle of some kind

[brisk drum]

That’s the only way I play capcom games

[eternal ravine]

YES

I want to see the full extent of the tactics

Alpha 3 survival on 8 was a serious addiction

Eventually beat it using R Mika

I mean survival, not the world tour

[brisk drum]

I gotta try survivor more often

[brisk drum]

Mika is my main

V ism Mika

[eternal ravine]

It gets nail-biting because you need to think ahead to matches that are going to sap your energy, and you only get SOME energy back after a win

I just use A Mika, as I never swallowed my pride and learned V timing

[brisk drum]

V ism is fun as hell , Mika is specially easy to jive with in v ism

[eternal ravine]

Does the ass bump get used a lot
QCB one

Ooops, we're in N64 chunnel

[quasi storm]

It's all good. Things buckle down when a new core releases.

[eternal ravine]

I remember when SFIII was supposed to land on N64

early rumor

[quasi storm]

Really?! Could the 64 even handle that?

Shudders in MK trilogy...

[versed cairn]

I think the rom would be too big, but they could cut animation

[eternal ravine]

It was probably a Gamefan rumor due to drug use

[quasi storm]

Cut the animation aka the whole point of SFIII 🤣

(Edit)

Okay... Half the point, but still ..

[versed cairn]

lol

third strike rom is 80mb

biggest n64 cart size is resident evil 2 at 64mb

[random portal]

WWF No Mercy shows the red Press Start now

Did Winback always launcher before the 9/25 core?

also, I think 3S on the N64 would look like Street Fighter II on GBA

[versed cairn]

Atleast sf3 and the n64 output the same resolution. The gba street fighter is so squished

[random portal]

I mean, third strike on the Dreamcast

[eternal ravine]

I just can't do 2 buttons for SF

GBA

[random portal]

GBA has 4

[eternal ravine]

I only consider face buttons for SF

Spoiled by Genesis 6 button since ages ago

[random portal]

haha

yeah that does make sense

[eternal ravine]

And then went Saturn after that

Which is still what I use on nearly everything, though the cords are a bother with how they retain bends

[zinc dew]

Has this happened to anyone when playing Space Station Silicon Valley?

If the Expansion Pak is installed in the N64, Silicon Valley will crash (the game, not the space station) whenever it tries to spawn the microchip.

This has never happened to me on real hardware. I think it’s an unfounded rumor that no one ever corrected.

[eternal ravine]

I have this setup called RetroPad32 and adapters to use Saturn pads on a ton of consoles

All the way up to 360

[chilly ember]

I haven't played it much on real hardware but i always have expansion pak installed in my n64 and never had a crash on that game

[cerulean elk]

Same with nba jam

Decompiled or leaked source code literally had a cheating AI

[cerulean elk]

Nope. I’ve played it maybe 3x over the years on my expansion pack N64. Nary a problem

[weary perch]

it's a real thing. there are two revisions of the game. some details here under "regional & revisional differences" https://tcrf.net/Space_Station_Silicon_Valley_(Nintendo_64)

that bug, and some games forcing Hi Res modes or similar when detecting an expansion pak are why you might want to keep a stock 4MB memory around

it's generally not necessary, though

[versed cairn]

I heard it's just the NA version right?

[zinc dew]

Well thank you very much @weary perch

[zinc dew]

Yeah and apparently there’s a 1.1 revision which I had no idea about

Maybe that’s what I own?

[brisk edge]

"The USA 1.0 version has the title screen and turning pictures in the intro running at 60 FPS while the USA 1.1 version runs them at 30 FPS (just like the gameplay). " so it's easy to tell

[versed cairn]

oh thats so interesting

is that the only time you would not want the expansion pak installed?

[brisk edge]

I'd argue resident evil 2 is the other instance, because of the constant 240p/480i resolution switching

[versed cairn]

fair. and thats one of the ones that doesn't have a toggle in the options

[weary perch]

Excitebike 64 runs replays in Hi Res mode if you have 8MB, but normal res if it doesn't detect it. there's no option in-game. it's just a replay there, though

[versed cairn]

like most other res up expansion pak games

[brisk edge]

though I tested it the other day, you can just disable in the OSD and reset the game it'll be fine. But yeah I was gonna say the database file might want to default to it off

[versed cairn]

wish the database turned on save pak for games that need it, but maybe not everyone wants that

[weary perch]

i did notice something weird with cpaks if anyone wants to try and corroborate

in SF Rush i couldn't get it to show a valid cpak for all 4 pads

it would only show one "No SF Rush Note Found" for one at a time

by toggling rumble and cpak around in various ways, i could get it to switch which one showed as valid

but only one would ever show

the rest would show "No Controller Pak Found"

[versed cairn]

that game is known to have Cpak issues. it constantly writes to the pak

it's super weird

[weary perch]

yeah it seems like maybe all the rush games do weird stuff like that?

[versed cairn]

I thik so ya

[weary perch]

wonder if Blitz does

has a similar menu system

[versed cairn]

robert had to limit the saves in the ui to 1 per ui open

or it would just save forever

[weary perch]

Blitz, NBA Jam/Showtime?, NHL Hitz, i think they all have that same type of menu system

midway was on some other shit on N64

[versed cairn]

nintendo's hardware guidelines were a suggestion to them.

[ripe cargo]

Any chance of a MacOS version?

[eternal ravine]

Wait so N64 games expected players to swap cpak and rumble during play?

[rose elbow]

https://images.nintendolife.com/e05bc39762487/rumble-in-the-jungle.large.jpg

[rose elbow]

i grew up with the N64 and even in later years kind of completely forgot about this. more recently when i've been playing around with everdrive and original hardware, i actually just mostly forgot all about the rumble pak

[eternal ravine]

Goofy

Though SEGA had the miserable complaining VMUs

[rose elbow]

yeah the original implementation wasn't elegant

[eternal ravine]

They were working stuff out

[weary perch]

some games allow you to use a cpak from any controller instead of just from P1 - in those games the best thing to do if you want rumble is have your save on a different pad's cpak and rumble can stay on for P1

it helps a lot for the games it works for if you like rumble

[eternal ravine]

Well that's something at least

[weary perch]

World Driver Championship for example, you can save everything to any pak

same with Excitebike 64's ghosts

[rose elbow]

but then other games more strictly need it on p1 ?

[weary perch]

yeah

not sure what the breakdown is exactly but a lot of single-player games ignore the other pads so you can't do it there

[rose elbow]

funny

[eternal ravine]

Devkit manual re: paks: "Do whatever"

[weary perch]

hmmm

might actually make a list of all the games i can find that let you do that

pretty sure any of the aforementioned midway games work

multiplayer games with cpak saves are generally a good bet for being able to use any cpak for saves

[worn delta]

On the subject of expansion pak, are there not a few games that run better without it, maybe even one that crashes with it?

[rose elbow]

on OG hardware or current core ?

[worn delta]

OG hardware

Core doesn't have an option to switch between them, it has expansion pak 8MB set

Although it leads into a following question of if there are indeed games that run better on OG hardware without the expansion Pak, are these same issues found on the core

[main dirge]

I’m guessing this is what the database is for, to automatically set the best settings

[worn delta]

Maybe for Ares it does, but be good to know what the games are so we can check for the issues

[surreal summit]

There was at least one game that crashed with the Expansion Pak, Space Station Silicon Valley 1.0 I believe, and there are more that are arguably better without it because the high res modes they enable run at a lower frame rate. https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/Nintendo_64_Expansion_Pak

[worn delta]

Right, that's good to know

Has anyone who has been playing that game on that revision seen the crash on the core?

[surreal summit]

I don't know, but you can turn set the Exp Pak off in the System Settings, which is a lot better than having to take the Expansion Pak out and put the Jumper Pak back in like you would on the original hardware. 😬

[worn delta]

I guess at some point Robert can add in 4MB ram as an option and we can see if it makes a difference in the core like it does on OG hardware for the games that work better without the expansion pak

[zinc dew]

Yes, constantly

[surreal summit]

It's already an option: Menu > System Settings > RAM Size: 4MB. In the future maybe we can have the database set it automatically, for that one game, lol.

[worn delta]

Oh does it actually work? I didn't realise it was set up

[zinc dew]

there’s a revision 1.1 that doesn’t crash, we actually just talked about this a little earlier which is a kinda funny coincidence

PAL versions also don’t crash

[surreal summit]

Yeah, that is why I'm sure that is super low priority. Still would be nice to have it set automatically at some point for weirdos like me that like to disable the Exp. Pak for certain games. Although there are also patches for games that disable the check.

[worn delta]

Ah, has anyone confirmed that the version that crashes, on OG hardware with expansion Pak, also crash the same way in the core when expansion Pak is turned on (but not when expansion Pak is disabled in the core menu)

[brisk drum]

No new build in like 3 days … in surprised you Nintendo nerds haven’t mutinied yet ..

NO TLB FOR YOU!

[elfin relic]

we're too busy playing games

[cold pollen]

Games?

[elfin relic]

you know, like the controller test rom

[cold pollen]

Oh yeah that's a good one

[brisk drum]

I been playing modern games ..

Pretty far into ghost of Tsushima

I am amazed at how well a western studio crafted a game set in feudal japan

[devout leaf]

Old reply but I've 100% it a few times and never had that happen. Just the statue glitch.

[surreal summit]

There's a fix for that too apparently. https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3719/

[devout leaf]

Yeah had to use a GameShark to fix it before. That crash is so weird. Can't ever remember it crashing with the expansion pak in. Thanks for the link though.

[surreal summit]

It must be a thing though, right? If they released a revision to fix it and there is this hack as well.

[brisk edge]

I've seen it happen in a youtube review, they specifically made note of it. But either way, it's mostly a non issue. We have the above patch or just using the revision that fixes it

[surreal summit]

So looking at real hardware vs MiSTer, the control chip model doesn't look correct, so there may be some stuff that needs to be added to make it crash, lol.

[eternal island]

did anyone try mario 64 60 fps mod with no face yet?

[cold pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/dwight-the-office-creepy-gif-15021929

[compact skiff]

https://youtu.be/BKEL4cUTOI4?si=uJtUcyjNkNb8f3T2

Recommended to me on YouTube 😂

[chilly ember]

Classic 😂

[eternal island]

ah, is the patch not even out yet

i found an old old one but dont think its the one i think it is

[orchid nimbus]

terminal montage is great!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mxNMWUkJys

[plucky oak]

I tried the patched rom last night, and the game gets weird slowdown even though the FPS counter is high. I think some people were discussing it in this thread, thats where I found the rom patch.

[zinc dew]

What if we ban “64”

No nevermind

[zenith orchid]

Did anyone run into any crashes or hangs in HM64?

I guess in theory its beatable if you can sleep through every day until the game is over 😂

[zealous hull]

depression%

[zenith orchid]

🤣🤣🤣

[dense chasm]

Do you waste away and get your house repossessed?

[orchid nimbus]

HM64=HangMan64?

[chilly ember]

Whenever I see hm64, I think of holy magic century

[cerulean elk]

Hyper Mario?

Wow someone port Mario 64 to the Hyper Neo Geo and call it that please

[zinc dew]

Now I want that and Mario replaced by Hoahmaru

[cerulean elk]

All the fans would want Mai. The comments sometimes on videos with her in it…thirsty

[zinc dew]

Oh lol

Man it’s wild playing Zelda OoT on this core. I think a lot of people who didn’t grow up with this system missed just how monumental Zelda was on release. Obviously you needed to be a big Nintendo fan but it genuinely felt like gaming just entered a brand new era. Like Zelda was the watershed moment that really unveiled the future of gaming and you were living it right then and there.

The other games that gave me similar feelings that year was Metal Gear Solid, Half Life, and Thief. All for different reasons.

[vapid hawk]

it was a stupendous year to be a gamer

[native mesa]

They got a lot right

[cerulean elk]

There were three real “moments” for me in gaming; the first time I played Hard Drivin in arcades and realized 3D existed, when consoles went 3D (admittedly on 3DO) and when I got my first 3D accelerator for my PC

So seeing Zelda jump from LTTP to Ocarina was totally mind blowing.

[zenith orchid]

@orchid nimbus @chilly ember so what's a better way to shorten Harvest Moon 64?

[cold pollen]

yep I missed out

it was a weird time period between parents affording a console and me not having a job lol

Gamecube was the first console I bought all on my own, kind of

[zinc dew]

Well I didn’t mean that people missed out on it, sorry. I think people just missed on seeing how monumental Zelda was at the time. Now it just feels quaint, haha.

So I totally get people not fully understanding the hype and adoration the game still commands.

[fair stump]

Someone out there says the same thing about Adventure

[zinc dew]

We’ll call them boomers

[orchid nimbus]

https://vampier.net/N64/memes/ added to memes @brisk drum

[fair stump]

"See that pixel? You can walk to that pixel"

[zinc dew]

I was too young for Adventure but I felt the same when I played Rocky’s Boots on DOS or Mad Maze on Prodigy.

I did get a hand me down 2600 as a kid and liked those games so I still have nostalgia for it.

[cold pollen]

you ARE the pixel in Adventure

[devout leaf]

Ouch, does Mario 64 save?

Exited to FTP something over and it's gone lol

[fair stump]

Did you save and quit?

[zinc dew]

https://youtu.be/iu_nQwZn02E?si=c01BkJhK9hfOIKuH

That Conan the Barbarian song was perfect

[devout leaf]

I thought so after getting a star but now that I think I'm doubting myself.

[fair stump]

I ask because I did the save and quit the other day and it froze on me, I'm assuming it took me back to the tlb face?

I was just poking around at it so I didn't really look into it further

[orchid nimbus]

well - what's it gonna be?

well you have to suck before you can finish....

grow first - the game gets harder over time

but the climax in this game is well worth it

[cerulean elk]

I hope this was written as a double entendre

[orchid nimbus]

I said what I said

[cerulean elk]

😂

Alright well on that note that’s all I’ve got for the night. See all your Brian loving monsters tomorrow

[orchid nimbus]

laterz

[weary palm]

I'll try

[wanton sun]

no, n64 renders with 8bit per color but must reduce to 5 bit per color to save it to the framebuffer afterwards if 32bit render mode is not used, which is normal in most cases, because the memory load/store would cost double bandwidth. Before reducing to 5bit, the color is dithered within a 4x4 area with one of two different dither patterns or with noise.

[wanton sun]

yes, i tested with some games and a testrom that it works

[quick arch]

You can switch it on the osd if needed.

[orchid nimbus]

updated graph

latest stats

thanks to @hexed knot for laying the groundwork for these stats

OOT became bootable which is reflected here

[carmine kettle]

and the core isnt even done yet awesome

[hexed knot]

Still love seeing that massive chunk of untested going away, that was a fun weekend.

I also like how it kind of turned into somewhat equal counts of Playable, Boots, and No Boot.

[orchid nimbus]

most likely TLB related or some weird init

[rose elbow]

is OOT prone to crashing?

i booted it up recently to test it out and next thing i knew i'm still playing on dodongo's cavern

[chilly ember]

I played through the Gamecube version and it didn't crash at all for me

[eternal ravine]

Wow, so slow in here

I heard MARS is going to have a Wii core

[remote hatch]

Yeah, and PlayStation 3 core

[languid dune]

My comment has made it slightly less slow in here. Now I'm going to go to bed, and it shall go back to being slow again.

[weary beacon]

@wanton sun have you already implemented LOD? If not, is it coming before or after VI? Thank you!

[quick arch]

https://github.com/FazanaJ/Diddy-Kong-Racing/releases/tag/1.0

[oblique remnant]

So its mostly between 50-60fps?

[quick arch]

between 40 fps to 60 fps depends

i Have one freeze so maybe not stable

[ripe cargo]

No worries. Probably not worth the effort. I can always load Windows in a VM if need be.

[weary palm]

Probably easier just to compile it

[ripe cargo]

I have no idea how to do that. Lol

[brisk edge]

neat stuff, I kinda forget there's so many decompilation projects ongoing

should have probably assumed there was a DKR one but I don't think I ever actually looked

[native mesa]

I wish there was a list of them

Hard to track them down

[chilly ember]

https://www.retroreversing.com/source-code/decompiled-retail-console-games

[surreal summit]

Finally got SSSiV to crash but I'm not sure it's Exp. Pak bug related. Memory error, so it could be.

[weary palm]

I've compiled a mac version now https://github.com/yxkalle/MarioDefacer/releases/tag/1.0b

[ripe cargo]

Awesome, thank you!

[native mesa]

Slow morning!

Good morning good afternoon good evening everyone

[worn delta]

Hey gang, what is the easiest way to find a checksum for a ROM? So there is a situation where Sydney 2000 (Europe) (Proto).z64 in the HTGDB Everdrive pack is set to NTSC but should be set to PAL (it gives a wrong region message currently on launch).

There are these two entries in the .txt database:
2a8b22f504b8724a5ca332bc79923503 ntsc|cic6102 # Sydney 2000 (Prototype)
a41f00c60fd8160d0e13a664f2cd43d4 ntsc|cic6102 # Sydney 2000 (Prototype)

So I can fix it, but I need to know which one to update

[native mesa]

It's not a checksum right?

It's a hash

You can use PowerShell to get a hash

Not sure if it's MD5 or SHA1

Get-FileHash -a SHA1 /file/path/file.exe

In windows powershell

[compact skiff]

The database is the hash of the first 4096 bytes. If you know how to use the terminal on the MiSTer, you can use this command:
head -c 4096 '/media/fat/games/N64/romname.z64' | md5sum

[weary palm]

"2a8b22f504b8724a5ca332bc79923503" is the Europe one

[hollow rune]

So @fair stump and @native mesa we did a Banjo Kazooie Blotch Syndrome test today and it turns out it only happens when Game Mode is on on the TV. Will try some stuff to see what I can do to combat it.

[native mesa]

Nice that's good news

[hollow rune]

Specifically Game Mode with a shadow mask

[worn delta]

Many thanks!

[native mesa]

I wonder if it does some weird color depth crushing

Who knows what goes on in those game modes

[hollow rune]

Yeah, unfortunately I can really feel then latency without game mode and really like the Trinitron shadow mask. I will have to mess with it more

[fair stump]

And it's only visible when you use a shadow mask? I wonder if the #settings-workshop channel could offer help

[weary palm]

Thanks for making me aware of this issue. I will try to make my database generating program a bit smarter and rerun it. 🙂

[shrewd matrix]

is there a list of what is in each category?

[native mesa]

Why are there perfects there should be no perfect

[weary beacon]

Yeah

Theres a google spreadsheet

[fair stump]

I just checked the sheet and there actually aren't any labeled perfect so far

24 completeable USA games so far though

[shrewd matrix]

just found it, thanks 😄

[native mesa]

I think the 'completable' metric is pretty useless

[worn delta]

There are some on other tabs marked perfect, but those are system tests and small homebrew etc.

[vapid hawk]

completable just means you can get to the credits basically

[hollow rune]

I just feel super worried that I mark something perfect and it isn't. Like in OoT there are polygon seems on the exit of Kokori Village and I just don't know if those were there. Many of these games I don't have

[vapid hawk]

you could check it against ares on your pc maybe? meant to be pretty accurate

[fair stump]

Definitely, I'm leaving the perfects to the people that will check with real hardware

To me, perfect is: is this frame by frame accurate to the real thing

I'm pretty sure the ps1 core had those checks

[hollow rune]

I think I could do that for some games. It'll be a lot of work.

[vapid hawk]

if you spot something you think might be worth looking into you can post a screen of it here for someone to verify vs real hardware

thats how we did it for psx

[carmine kettle]

i believe @manic basin has a program he added few days ago.

[worn delta]

I've put a PR in to fix that Syndey pal/ntsc setting

Another issue that @ripe cargo flagged was that these 3 are giving an eeprom not found message
e091cfba8f16b9e23dd320d3a4224ba9 ntsc|cic6102 # Pyoro 64 (Aftermarket) (Homebrew)
49dd2dc652fbd37f46909127ddeb502e pal|cic7101 # Pyoro 64 (Italy) (Aftermarket) (Homebrew)
c3be84913baf7ed8e004972f1c678c02 ntsc|cic6102 # Pyoro 64 (Unknown) (Aftermarket) (Homebrew)

if anyone is able to dig into this and figure out what they should be set to for them to save properly and not display an error message

[quick arch]

You can use Ares emulator

on the manifest you can have those kind of information

[zealous hull]

On the topic--and believe me I know this has been the subject of a lot of discussion--I would like to ask the group how viable this is:

Would it at all be possible for the core to check two separate fields in the database file? One could compare the filename string of the game and check it against a string in the database, if that doesn't exist, it can use the md5 as a fallback? Or vice versa?

I really do feel that could cover all of our bases (i.e. I name all of my randomized roms the same thing: XXXX - Randomized.z64)

Sorry to ping you, @bronze tree , but I'm genuinely curious if this would be possible?

I'm not familiar with how this lookup functions--and my time is unfortunately quite limited--else I would do some testing around it myself.

[slate sundial]

in full agreement. I'm playing through it now, and it's startling how many modern mechanics this game spawned that are still used today

it's like Snow White. it transformed an industry all at once.

the planets truly aligned with this game

[quick arch]

@worn delta no save type for the game Pyoro 64

[prisma ivy]

another morning another core update. Yowza. What a time to be alive!

[weary beacon]

When i pulled the master sword there were seams on ganondorfs face in the cutscene

They were pretty obvious so i doubt they are there or real hardware although i could be wrong

[weary beacon]

Is there a list of fixes

[fair stump]

Core update?

[zealous hull]

I think Geiger9 is having a laugh.

[mortal panther]

That's not funny. 😏

[zealous hull]

It's a little funny.

[prisma ivy]

I'm sorry guys

[mortal panther]

...a smidge.

[prisma ivy]

I honestly thought there was

[fair stump]

I can only read that with a very heavy British accent

[prisma ivy]

whenever I see a new VGE video I think there's been a new core release 😄

[orchid nimbus]

“Another new core?” 🙂

[zealous hull]

My guy got so excited they didn't even check the channel first.

[prisma ivy]

clearly I need caffeine this morning

[zealous hull]

It happens. 🙂

[orchid nimbus]

It’s been quiet on the n64 core front

[weary perch]

Mario Kart 64 seems very close, not sure if i saw any issues in that one

[prisma ivy]

for about 48 hours you mean?

[weary perch]

a lot of games are close but have a few tiny issues - Wave Race 64 for example, still has flickering text and there are anomalous white lines on the fog sprites in Drake Lake

[prisma ivy]

gamma problem in Starfox 64

[prisma ivy]

I ain't complaining though. I'm freakin stoked about this system I thought I didn't really care about.

I guess it's just this hype train. It's fun jumping on said train when progress is being made so quickly

[orchid nimbus]

Hehehehe the hype train will die down

[prisma ivy]

not all train rides are forever alas

[orchid nimbus]

And then everyone will just go on to the next core and never touch it again

[prisma ivy]

but I'll enjoy it while I can

[vapid hawk]

its like we're getting an n64 piece by piece on the front of a magazine

[prisma ivy]

no way man, we're gonna be playin N64 forever.... forever.... forever....

[vapid hawk]

yeah psx/n64/saturn are going to be my forever cores 🙂

[orchid nimbus]

My favorite core is still the GBA core

[zealous hull]

This is probably the most I've ever played N64 games. Even back when I first got one.

I'm stunned by how many Nintendo games got 3D so right on the first try. It's truly impressive.

[prisma ivy]

do these systems form your core childhood gaming memories?

[hexed knot]

I do have a list of games I plan to add to the backlog for this core, that I missed the first time around.

[vapid hawk]

yeah - psx was the first console i was allowed

[compact skiff]

Except we are the beta testers and the entire library is already available.

[vapid hawk]

yeah but next weeks magazine comes with a tub of vaseline !

[zealous hull]

Next month's. 😉

[prisma ivy]

ah I see. When the N64 came out, my parents said no more video game systems. They bought a family computer instead. I only played the N64 occasionally at a friend's house or if I rented it for a weekend. Same goes for PSX.

[mellow raft]

The N64 hits nostalgia hard because a lot of the first party games were well-rounded.... it's just sad there are so few of them

[worn delta]

Oh, does that mean that the game doesn't save at all regardless of what is set?

[hexed knot]

I do plan to break out my Nintendo Powers and go through a few games too.

[prisma ivy]

I still do have really nice memories of playing three player Goldeneye at my friends house all night long and sharing a 2L of pepsi

[mellow raft]

yeah the fact that it had 4 controller ports out of the box made it the party console

[prisma ivy]

those were the days ♫

[mellow raft]

Even PS1 really didn't have that as much even after the N64 kind of slowed down

[vapid hawk]

n64 was such a good multiplayer console yeah, played so much goldeneye + perfect dark

[covert bough]

Oh you mean last night?

[quick arch]

You said an error message is displayed what is the error message ?

[mellow raft]

I have fond memories playing Smash 64 with 3 other friends a lot

good times

[covert bough]

Yeah good variety within the small library

[vapid hawk]

mario kart64 is like the only game i've ever got my dad to play too

[covert bough]

My friends would go from madden and wrestling to goldeneye

[worn delta]

@ripe cargo what was the error and how did you get it?

[prisma ivy]

ah the N64 wrestling games. Especially with character creation. I can remember waiting for my friends to make their characters and I'd be playing the demo version of Heroes of Might & Magic 2 on the computer while I waited. And the chair... oh my god it was one the cheapest chairs that China could possibly make and the back was broken off it. Didn't bother us as kids though.

[vapid hawk]

we went from goldeneye, to perfect dark, to timesplitters, to halo - it was like the perfect run of 4p splitscreen shooters

[mellow raft]

Banjo-Kazooie was the only game I got my dad to play, and he beat it when I was young

He's in skilled nursing now, and I took him my N64 with the Banjo-Kazooie cartridge that someone sent me as a gift (it is signed by Grant Kirkhope), and I got a video of him achieving the jump to the honeycomb piece on the waterfall... filled me with joy

[quasi basalt]

Pyoro 64 uses eeprom512

[weary palm]

fixed

[fair stump]

Quick question, I'm helping someone try to set up the n64 core, do they just need to run update all and grab the latest rbf?

[mellow raft]

You have to add the entry to the downloader.ini first, but after that update_all will grab the rbf and the database file for you 🙂

[weary palm]

and pif files too, right?

[mellow raft]

see the pinned posts

[fair stump]

Oh, I thought update all now grabbed the n64 database txt file

[mellow raft]

I said it does

😛

it grabs both

[orchid nimbus]

if you add 2 lines to the ini file

[woeful beacon]

was just gonna say halflife but whats funny is I played all 4 of your examples within like a 2 year span at the age of something liek 11,12 and it did change me for sure, althoguh I never had an n64 so Zelda wasnt exactly played to completion.

also I remember the Matrix coming out around then too lol

[fair stump]

I'm just asking if it's just the txt file, pif files, and rbf. I believe they have all those and were saying they were having some issues but I didn't get the details on what issues

they didn't say exactly what games they even checked

[knotty zealot]

my bro asked if we're able to use original n64 controllers. the answer is yes, yes?

[orchid nimbus]

like a 'looter' in an apple store 😄

[mellow raft]

yes

[quick arch]

Have you a link with this information to make an issue for Ares to update their database ?

[weary palm]

Yes, with SNAC or a regular USB adapter

[prisma ivy]

https://a.co/d/0iw8qjx

This controller also works really well. I'm easily able to make Mario do the creep walk.

it was just as easy to set up as the 8bitdo M30

[orchid nimbus]

yes it's in the compatibility tracker in graph form

@shrewd matrix https://vampier.net/N64/

[native mesa]

Wow we have THE Super NES here?!

[quasi basalt]

I used an EverDrive to check out the ROM info and then tested the ROMs on the core.

[drowsy lantern]

I really need to order 4 of those.

[topaz otter]

that font

reminds me of dos games

[prisma ivy]

I'm a stickler for playing games with their intended controller. A friend of mine plays everything with a 8bitdo PS2 style controller and it feels wrong to me 😄

[mild ether]

It's kinda Nesticle esque.

[prisma ivy]

all it needs is the bloody hand

[fair stump]

It is very LucasArts point and click, which I like

[topaz otter]

man I remember the hand lol

first time I fired up nesticle, I was hoping my parents wouldn't see it

I'm thinking, why would someone make the cursor a bloody hand

[prisma ivy]

there's something about that memory of playing Dragon Warrior 2 using Nesticle

[topaz otter]

it was the best dos nes emulator though

[prisma ivy]

did it fit on a single floppy disk?

I'm thinking it did because I didn't have internet at home, only at the library

[topaz otter]

329kb, yes

[prisma ivy]

amazing

[mild ether]

It was straight up magic when I first saw it.

[topaz otter]

but you needed the roms also, which inflates the file size

[mild ether]

Couldn't believe I was playing NES games on a computer

[topaz otter]

Mega Man 78KB
Mega Man 2 132KB
Mega Man 3 217KB
Mega Man 4 287KB

[prisma ivy]

and we can't believe we are playing N64 on the MiSTer

[weary palm]

Could be that EverDrive confuses Pyoro 64 with Puyo Puyo Sun 64, both have "PY" as identifier (BPY and NPY)

[quick arch]

Thank you 🙂

[mild ether]

Yep, MiSTer definitely has the same vibes as when emulators first came around.

[topaz otter]

the crazy thing was, at that time it was either find the games at a yard sale, or play them on the emulator

there was no alternative

[weary palm]

i wouldn't trust the Everdrive on this one

[topaz otter]

i remember about 1994 I was at a yard sale and saw all the megaman nes games for sale

and they were in one of those plastic cartridge holder things

[vapid hawk]

Everdrive has a database they use for a handful of custom overrides i think, i had to put dinosaur planet in it

[quasi basalt]

Yeah I'm not sure how accurate it is. Just been using it as a reference and then I'll test saving and what not on the core.

[mild ether]

What game is it?

Pyoro?

[drowsy lantern]

I'm playing with a 8bit do SN30 right now and while it works great for most games, any game that makes heavy use of the C-buttons for gameplay action instead of camera are a big pain.

[quasi basalt]

Yes

[drowsy lantern]

Once it works, good luck playing KI Gold with C-buttons assigned to a stick.

[topaz otter]

https://static1.thegamerimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/NES-Laser-Scope.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&dpr=1.5

[prisma ivy]

gotta work with what ya got

[mellow raft]

what about Ninty's official Switch ones?

[weary palm]

Yeah, there's another ID clash there. Dinosaur Planet has the same ID as Donkey Kong 64 (Kiosk Demo)

[fair stump]

That was me then I got the saffun and it's a world of difference

[prisma ivy]

only for NSO subscribers and it's a lot more expensive $20 CAD more than that one on Amazon by Saffun

[mild ether]

I had one of those when I was a kid. It sucked nuts.

[prisma ivy]

I want to use this for Pokemon Snap

[mellow raft]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KBAE52S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[prisma ivy]

just shouting for 40 minutes trying to take pics of Pokemon

[mild ether]

Let me guess it's worth a fortune now.

[mellow raft]

I wish this was more readily available. I bought this many many years ago and it was solid. Idk if it's the same now though

[topaz otter]

I have this

It sucks

[mellow raft]

my guess is the product has undergone a change since i bought it in 2015

the reviews show that

[topaz otter]

Worse?

[mellow raft]

yeah

[topaz otter]

Lol

Last time i used it

I played max payne 1 with it

I had to invent a control scheme with xpadder

Worked pretty well actually

[mellow raft]

yeah the reviews have some people saying "exact replica" and others say it has problems, all around the same time. Most likely it's one of those Chinese products that send who knows what chips in random ones off the line

[topaz otter]

Proof that max payne could have been on the n64

[deep beacon]

The max Payne squint in goldeneye smear resolution is what the world needed I suppose lol

[topaz otter]

Im imagining max paynes ost with samples played off the cartridge

[deep beacon]

I can’t pretend. The goldeneye faces blew my mind as a pc and ps1 kid.

[mild ether]

Wow, this channel could break 100k comments by the end of the week.

[deep beacon]

Max Payne on pc was also basically real life to me

And that nvidia demo of the matrix office building shoot out too

Funny how things change

[topaz otter]

People arent wowed by graphics anymore

Its passe

[deep beacon]

Killer instinct as well. First time seeing the arcade I was like wow I hope I get a Nintendo ultra 64

[vapid hawk]

i still get wowed by graphics sometimes

the full path traced cyberpunk is quite remarkable, and also Red Matter2 in VR

[mild ether]

It's been a while since I have been wowed. Thought maybe Starfield but nope.

[vapid hawk]

oh also no mans sky, in VR again

its definitely getting rarer though

[mild ether]

Think they might be entering the uncanny valley in graphics.

[atomic stratus]

That was always my go to as a kid when asking my parents for a new console: “It’ll be the last one I’ll EVER need, I swear!” In the case of N64, it felt like the truth because my 8 year old brain couldn’t comprehend graphics possibly getting any better

[mild ether]

Not quite real looking but close enough to make it look weird.

[vapid hawk]

if you showed like, me 15 years ago the graphics of an average game today i'd probably shit my pants

[prisma ivy]

Imagine showing a MiSTer to a kid in 2001

[vapid hawk]

we're definitely way into the diminishing returns now though

[prisma ivy]

They would BSOD

[vapid hawk]

2001 kids would probably just think its lame it can't do PS2 games 😄

[atomic stratus]

Yeah, I mean when 6-Pak for Genesis came out my mind was blown…10 year old me would just not even be able to comprehend MiSTer

[prisma ivy]

Graphics shmaphics.

[native mesa]

I was a 2001 kid. I would not think it's lame

emulators sucked back then

[prisma ivy]

Stares in Nesticle

[deep beacon]

It ebbs and flows. I remember playing crysis 2 and walking through the streets of Manhattan. I fell under gun fire and hid behind a car. I then noticed that the windshield on the car wasn’t being broken by the bullets and my character wasn’t in the reflection just a stock skybox. At that moment I uninstalled. True story

[vapid hawk]

reflections are still fucked in most games lol

[deep beacon]

Cyberpunk looks good. I just don’t like how everything is wet.

[vapid hawk]

i thought we had basically good enough hardware/graphics for most things until i got a VR headset, now i think we need tons more power, like 5-10x minimum

[prisma ivy]

We should have abandoned 3D after the N64 😂

[vapid hawk]

8k 120hz in VR is like, a good start, not ridiculous the way it is on a tv

[mild ether]

Not a fan of looking at a virtual world through a screen door personally.

[vapid hawk]

thats been hugely reduced with the highres displays u get now

[prisma ivy]

There was a Wonder Project J game for N64 right? Is that the only straight up 2D game?

[mild ether]

I will have to take a look at one sometime but wasn't all that impressed with the first Oculus

[vapid hawk]

i want to say the psvr2 has literally no screendoor, its oled and the pixels just don't do it

it does have a different thing called mura

[quaint pewter]

I need to try Virtual Boy emul on Quest 2

[manic basin]

So....Oculus Prime was weak? Is this Megatron?

[orchid nimbus]

so place your bets - TLB next?

[vapid hawk]

he's already said he's looking at VI i think

[prisma ivy]

Oculus Quest Sixty Four: Brian's Revenge

[zenith orchid]

VI next

[quaint pewter]

Vaseline Intergration

[zenith orchid]

he just got the dither in, he's probably working on dedither and AA

[manic basin]

it's going to make a vas difference

[quaint pewter]

You almost stole my vasectomy joke, Andy

After my vasectomy I thought things would change a lot but in the end there was just no vas deferens

[hexed knot]

We gotta eat our VeggIes before we get our Triple Layer Brownies.

[worn delta]

Thanks for checking this, so in the DB EEP4K = eeprom512? If so I can amend that.

As an aside it may be worth reaching out to someone at Ares and suggest they may like to keep an eye on the GitHub changelog for our .txt file, if these issues we are fixing are also going to be present in their equivalent.

[manic basin]

Didn't mean to cut you off and leave you hanging. 🥁

[quaint pewter]

You didn't have to quote the whole message, just snippet

[quasi basalt]

Yep and EEP16K = eeprom2k

[manic basin]

One of the dumbest puns I ever let creep out of my head...

[orchid nimbus]

..... lol

[orchid nimbus]

why not do female guards

beware of extensive damage control 😄

[manic basin]

I assume someone told them I was going to make the joke in 600 years.

[lament escarp]

Had to read that twice to get it.

[quaint pewter]

I went out on a date with a dolphin last night. It was great. We just clicked.

[topaz otter]

The female guards were assasins like in the historical drama ocarina of time

[brisk drum]

You win best pop culture reference of the day

https://tenor.com/view/sealab-2021-gif-5428355373249421058

[topaz otter]

https://tenor.com/view/the-magic-school-bus-carlos-gif-21892867

[quaint pewter]

He grew up and made his kids life miserable with endless puns. So did I 🙂

[brisk drum]

I just got that joke

[odd vector]

Is it possible that Gamma is not yet implemented? Aquas in Starfox is extremely Dark

[weary palm]

It's not, but you could do gamma correction with a filter.

[vapid hawk]

yeah gamma is missing, idk what profile you'd need to replace it

i think it varied by game/scene

[lament escarp]

Is gamma correction part of rdp or vi?

[ornate obsidian]

VI I believe

[bitter fjord]

so, I am having an issue, I don't know if that happens with legit NSO controllers, but when I use my 8bitdo N64 controller in switch/nso mode it only works the first time I pair it and register buttons. If I reboot MiSTer the controller does sync but it doesn't register any keys input until I pair it once again. The issue does NOT occur if I connect the controller to my blueretro adapter

[drowsy lantern]

You know Robert has really spoiled us when seeing this throws you off a bit.

[bitter fjord]

sadly the 8bitdo controller has a bug where you can't register C-left and C-up when in direct input mode

I am using the latest installed linux kernel

[lament escarp]

The modkit? It's working fine for me. Did you map the c-buttons as 2nd stick in main?

[bitter fjord]

are you using direct input?

[bitter fjord]

no I didn't?

maybe that's the issue

but it doesn't explain the nso mode issue though

[lament escarp]

Yes, so I don't have to pair it all the time with the new kernel

[bitter fjord]

yeah, so on nso mode you need to pair after each reboot. I don't think that's normal

[lament escarp]

The nso mode issue is because the nso driver for linux is still a bit funky, hopefully there will be a better driver soon.

[bitter fjord]

does anyone using the real NSO controller have this issue?

[marble cargo]

Robert has already done a lot, so I think he does deserve some quiet time.

[lament escarp]

No argument there, but with him you never know if he is just playing banjo for fun, really taking a break or about to drop a massive update he's been working in all this time.

[bitter fjord]

I don't understand why they went with using axis input expect of regular button inputs for C stick in direct input mode. makes no sense

C buttons are...well... buttons

[lament escarp]

Then I would have nothing smart to say at all. 🙂

[carmine kettle]

always happen to me as well

[bitter fjord]

using a legit NSO controller?

[carmine kettle]

no 8bitdo

[bitter fjord]

I wonder if NSO controllers have the same issue on MiSTer

[vapid hawk]

some people have reported that but i think they also all had those combo wifi/bt dongles

people with just bt dongles say its fine

[carmine kettle]

yea some bt dongle work mine doesnt work

[bitter fjord]

I am using a bt only dongle xD

[carmine kettle]

you gotta ask which one they got

[lament escarp]

This is the error log using a bt dongle and the nso kernel.

[vapid hawk]

is that when its failing to repair after a cold start?

[lament escarp]

Yes, @hearty oar tried some things but in the end we couldn't make it report anything other then 110.

If someone is driver smart and wants to take a crack you're welcome

[vapid hawk]

did you check if maybe your pad needs an update? thats a thing iirc?

[lament escarp]

Yes, 8bitdo fw is still v1.00, there are also no betas.

Works fine on switch, without re-pairing after first pairing etc.

What I really don't get is why the pad only has nso and dinput mode, all other 8bitdo pads I've seen also support xinput, which would make rumble compatible with everything.

[orchid nimbus]

Vi

Non VI - we are here

best way to see the effect is to look at the tree

[bitter fjord]

registering C buttons as stick 2 worked

[lament escarp]

Watching robert implement things like texture correction and dithering is kinda like watching bob ross. At first you think the new stuff will ruin everything but than you're suprised how good it looks in the end.

[daring meteor]

Can't wait for 6 to be implemented into the core

[carmine kettle]

next build going to be this weekend probably prdection

[daring meteor]

Not sure

[bitter fjord]

I assume that's why rumble isn't working with it on MiSTer?

[lament escarp]

Rumble works with the beta kernel, just the reconnection after disconnecting does not. Dinput doesn't support rumble at all. So you're stuck with a faulty driver or one that doesn't do rumble at all.

[bitter fjord]

:/

[carmine kettle]

we dont need rumble

[lament escarp]

All I can think of at the moment is to contact 8bitdo and nicely ask them to update there fw to support xinput

[carmine kettle]

played n64 without the need of rumble

talking about 8bitdo n64 diy kit they sent me a replacement and still doesnt work

now im waiting what can they do next

[lament escarp]

Whole kit or just rumble pack?

[bitter fjord]

what issues did you have with your kit?

[carmine kettle]

they sent me a new rumble but didnt rumble at all

its either the board its faulty

[bitter fjord]

I haven't tested if rumble works on mine

[carmine kettle]

the rumble doesnt work on the switch, that how i test it

[vapid hawk]

shouldn't it be able to rumble in nso mode same as the actual nso ?

[lament escarp]

If you have a switch you can easily test it when it's paired the the search function in the controller menu

[lament escarp]

Mine does

[carmine kettle]

yea it supposed to work for me it doesnt so i think its the board itself

i can pair it just find but it doesnt rumble

[lament escarp]

But the actual nso doesn't support rumble on switch except for the n64 nso games. So it's I bit shot to test.

[ornate obsidian]

Since supposedly all OoT versions are working, randomizer is working fine aswell_

?*

[tidal glade]

You feel using your feelings?

[vapid hawk]

not sure, my redux patch for zelda oot isn't starting currently

[bitter fjord]

playing the redux oot here, it runs fine

you need to set the right cic/save

[vapid hawk]

oh is it not being recognized ? i didn't see a database miss message

[bitter fjord]

yah it's not

[vapid hawk]

probably worth adding that one to the db ? its on romhacking.net

[wanton sun]

LOD is not implemented and VI will be done before

[vapid hawk]

hey Rob

[wanton sun]

Hi 🙂

[lament escarp]

Hey Robert, you got a bridge day on Monday?

[wanton sun]

yes

that's the main reason i started with VI: have 5 days starting saturday

if i'm lucky, i have the logic ready by monday and some first implementation(not all VI features) until wednesday

[vapid hawk]

what are all the VI features?

[orchid nimbus]

bridge day is a day off from work I assume to bridge a naitonal holiday

[wanton sun]

we have national holiday on tuesday

[orchid nimbus]

Tag der Deutschen Einheit

[wanton sun]

dedither, AA, gamma, bilinear interpolation, noise dithering, divot (and of course async video out)

[lament escarp]

Yeah, 3rd of october is a bank holyday in Germany, we call it Brückentag when there is a holyday on tuesday or thursday and you connect it to the weekend.

[orchid nimbus]

yes 😉 I got that

[vapid hawk]

oh wow, all of that ?

[daring meteor]

Where does the 32 bit framebuffer fit in

[orchid nimbus]

wow

[wanton sun]

i will not have all ready in a first version

[vapid hawk]

what even is divot ?

[wanton sun]

it's average of 3 pixels horizontal

[orchid nimbus]

"a piece of turf cut out of the ground by a golf club in making a stroke."

[vapid hawk]

yeah lol thats all i could find

[bitter fjord]

I just paired one of my 8bitdo controller to my switch to test if rumble works, it does

[wanton sun]

the input to all these function can be from either 32 or 16 bit framebuffer, but it's converted directly after reading from ram, so everything is done at 8 bit per color

[daring meteor]

Ah

[native mesa]

another stroke with the vaseline brush

[vapid hawk]

is VI a seperate chip in real hardware or a block of another one?

[daring meteor]

Real Hardware only has 2 chips its kinda funny

[wanton sun]

part of the RCP

[daring meteor]

RCP is everything

[wanton sun]

except CPU, yes

[vapid hawk]

fascinating thanks

[daring meteor]

And pif but even I didn't count pif

[vapid hawk]

it almost sounds like a mini-scaler or something

there's no real equivelant in the psx or saturn is there ?

[wanton sun]

don't know for saturn, but psx has nothing that can be compared with

and yes, it can indeed scale with fixed point accuracy

[vapid hawk]

does it only ever work on the 2d framebuffer ? almost like a post-effects pipeline

[marble cargo]

So how much will that cost overall?

[orchid nimbus]

$0

[lament escarp]

3.50$

[vapid hawk]

depends how much your patreon to robert is 😛

[lament escarp]

Three fiddy

[daring meteor]

I bet its More than 6 LEs

[wanton sun]

yes, it's only done on the 2D framebuffer. Or better: it works on 3 lines of the framebuffer at the same time

[vapid hawk]

ah

very cool

[wanton sun]

despite it having so many functions, i really hope it can be done small. hopefully 3% of the FPGA (1200 ALM) is enough for it's whole pixel pipeline

[vapid hawk]

its pretty compact on the die

[wanton sun]

if you look at the die shot, that would make sense, the RSP is around 6k ALM and the RDP is around 9k with all function in

all parts that say "mem" can be ignored, they cost only blockram in the FPGA and we have plenty of that

[vapid hawk]

what does the "AI?" stand for on the die shot?

[wanton sun]

Audio Interface

[marble cargo]

@wanton sun Also just for clarification, I noticed some games don't use the dithering at all. Mainly the games that are entirely 2D like Puyo Puyo Sun and Suseme! Taisen Puzzle Dama. Is that supposed to be normal?

[wanton sun]

dithering can be turned on or off for each polygon. So e.g. if you have a solid color background, there is no point in using it

[daring meteor]

N64 is ahead of its time, has built in Chat GPT

[marble cargo]

Oh so it's not something baked into the signal, like how PS1 works.

[wanton sun]

also some 2D games use the copy mode, which is like a blitter that cannot do dithering at all

it can draw 4 times as fast as the normal rendering, so it's prefered

[daring meteor]

Mario Kart 64 is a 2D game?

[wanton sun]

kind of 😉

but some 3D games also don't us it. If the assets are well choosen in color, dithering is not needed and the game looks better

[marble cargo]

I like learning about how the Nintendo 64 functions.

[wanton sun]

if you can skip dithering entirely, you can also turn of dedither in the VI and have less blur

[vapid hawk]

i think quake might be doing that

they have a menu option that makes everything way sharper

[weary beacon]

I don’t think the PS1’s dithering is baked in?

[wanton sun]

ps1 dithering is: always on for lines, never on for rectangles/sprites, and per polygon choise for triangles/quads

so not too far of from n64

[odd vector]

New build today, Robert?

[stone pilot]

Do you know off-hand if Symphony of the Night used tris/quads for its "sprites", then? I remember the library having a ton of dithering

[wanton sun]

ps1 has only one dither pattern choise (n64 has 2), but it's more subtile and can do negative color(intensity averages to +-0), while n64 can only add color(insensity averages to +3.5)

[carmine kettle]

no new build

[wanton sun]

no new build the next days. i want to work on the VI now and don't interrupt it

[carmine kettle]

take your time

[weary beacon]

There is a hack to remove the dithering in symphony so maybe.

[odd vector]

Makes sense, thanks for your hard work!

[wanton sun]

i don't know sorry, but i would assume it uses mostly rectangles which cannot dither

with static 2D assets in psx, dithering would be so useless, as psx only has 16 bit textures (unlike n64)

[fair stump]

With how much is going on in each core you make, do you ever find yourself forgetting how certain aspects function?

[odd vector]

64 bits!

[wanton sun]

4,8,16 and 32 bit only 😉

(thankfully)

[daring meteor]

Wtf, nintendo lied

[odd vector]

Atari Jaguar!

[quasi storm]

https://youtu.be/W5g33W0Zafs?si=RdgSnFKnMyY4HWLt

[odd vector]

Should be at least 4 times better than Super Nintendo

[wanton sun]

i often forget details about older projects when i start new ones. But at least i know where to look so it's not completly lost 😅

[native mesa]

Isn't there dithering applied all over SOTN for no reason?

[wanton sun]

if it was, it would be really for no reason

i mean, boot up the core and disable dithering to check if it has influence

[native mesa]

I remember there being conversations about it when you were working on the core

Dithered backgrounds and stuff

[quasi storm]

@wanton sun Can you explain why the lense flare effect in the intro of StarFox 64 is completely changed by dithering? Without it, some parts are missing entirely.

[wanton sun]

i don't know what you mean, so i cannot, sorry

you have a comparison?

[stone pilot]

It is subtle and is really for nearly no reason. I think they apply some "spotlight" effects in places like the library, and it helps a bit there. There are also areas where polys are mixed in with the sprites, so maybe they just applied the same treatment to everything to make their lives easier.

[remote hatch]

without dithering, some effects are missing

even in the beginning you can see it with the sun

[wanton sun]

it doesn't make sense, dithering is just adding some bits of color

[remote hatch]

ok one sec

[weary beacon]

Dithering was well done in ecco the dolphin.

[quasi storm]

Thanks @remote hatch . I just tore down my capture setup 😆

[remote hatch]

@wanton sun

[fair stump]

Doesn't the dust cloud behind Epona in OoT intro act similarly?

[drowsy lantern]

Nintendo really were at war with jaggies and pixels. Perhaps a bit too much. That said, it's nice how it completely smooths out the dithering. Can't even tell there's any in the first place!

[orchid nimbus]

obviously they never expected 720p 😄

[wanton sun]

very strange, looks more like a bug