Nintendo 64

[tidal zenith]

Ah ok that’s it

[cunning mantle]

Impact on what? The N64 Core performance, or i.e. the Mister Main GUI?

[vapid hawk]

all controller input presumably

[lone geyser]

Every time the controller is read

[vapid hawk]

thing is its checking one slow moving boolean

if its not already cached - cache it, job done

[lone geyser]

I know there's been some actual discussion

[compact depot]

Ew. Gotta fix that

Just load a map once the core is loaded. Use the map. Profit

[tidal zenith]

I think it’s not a map though rather it’s some actual math to clamp it accurately

[compact depot]

It’s a map

At the end of the day

[ebon oyster]

It's a translation function.

[compact depot]

I.e. a map

[lone geyser]

It's actually also dynamic

[compact depot]

A dynamic map

[ebon oyster]

No, a map is a static thing.

[compact depot]

Still a map

[lone geyser]

Since it tracks the largest observed analog input as a scaling factor

[compact depot]

Arduino function for that is called… map

🤣

[ebon oyster]

This needs to adjust to the range characteristics of whatever specific analog stick it's dealing with.

[compact depot]

Yep. A map function

[lone geyser]

It's nonlinear

[compact depot]

A nonlinear map

Still a map

[lone geyser]

tf is a nonlinear map

[vapid hawk]

so what is the check thats being done on every controller input ? isN64() ?

[compact depot]

C’mon guys 🤣

[ebon oyster]

Not here to argue terminology, was just making the point that a static table of translation values will not universally work.

[compact depot]

It could. But a map function is much better yeah

[ebon oyster]

The check is presumably just "is this value bigger than any value I've seen before? If so, update the stored value subsequently used in the transform function."

[compact depot]

Just set the thresholds once when a core is loaded and call it a day

[lone geyser]

That won't work

Because some controllers have different ranges and the true range might not have been observed

[compact depot]

Thresholds should be per vid:pid yeah

But still

[lone geyser]

Also, we're talking about changes to the input loop. There's no way to make it not run every time

The core doesn't have it's own ARM binaries that I'm aware of (would be nice)

[compact depot]

Set them once per vid:pid upon core load

[lone geyser]

Set what?

[compact depot]

And use them

Thresholds

[vapid hawk]

you can't set them until the stick has been moved

[quasi storm]

This is pretty heated controller talk 😆

[vapid hawk]

and even then you can't be sure its been moved to its extent

[ebon oyster]

Again, you can't just magically know the min/max range constants for a given analog stick "on load". That has to be measured.

[compact depot]

Most use -127/127

[lone geyser]

And then what? When do you apply the changes (the answer is every time the input loop runs)

[twin barn]

so i took RMG/Mupen64's saves I just made for Fushigi no Dungeon - Fuurai no Shiren 2 - Oni Shuurai! Shiren Jou! and concatenated them to mirror how the mister n64 cores save is done, mister is on the left. there are sections that seem to be asserted to FF when they probably should be varying values. And it does look like SRAM space (but not CPAK) should be initialized to 0xFF entirely maybe. (I only know of two games where this ever mattered and they are both Sega Genesis games, Star Trek TNG which looks for 0xFF and a sonic hack that wrongfully looks for 0x00 as a check :P)

Anyways hope this helps @wanton sun . Some specific offsets appear to not be writing the correct data to the CPAK portion. This is probably why it can't be read back when the game resets. This is a game that continuously writes to the SRAM/CPAK both I believe, triggers everytime you open OSD. Might be a challenging one.

[lone geyser]

N64 controllers famously do not so that's the problem

[compact depot]

For those which dont have a map file with the parameters for them per vid pid

[weary palm]

@languid dune I've made a hot fix for your issue. I hope sorg accepts it.

[lone geyser]

https://github.com/markun/Main_MiSTer/commits/n64-joystick-test

Go nuts then

Prove us wrong

[compact depot]

I won’t do shot

You guys who are on that you do that

I just wanna play

Go go go

[ebon oyster]

and complain

[compact depot]

Not complaining at all

[vapid hawk]

i think what your suggesting would require someone to manually profile all controllers everywhere to make maps for them bootsector

what they've done is fully dynamic

[compact depot]

Markun did a great thing in there

We just need a PR

Sorg can fix the rest

[vapid hawk]

make an MR, see what sorg thinks of it

[compact depot]

What’s a MR?

[vapid hawk]

i think this is probably quibbling over nothing, it's like a tiny handful of extra instructions

merge request

[ebon oyster]

I'm happy to take a crack at coding an improved approach if we can come up with an idea for a better approach.

[compact depot]

Ah

[twin barn]

that's typically called a pull request in github terminology

[compact depot]

Will take a look at what sorg says

But markun and lemonici idea is awesome

Just need to figure what’s missing according to sorg

[ebon oyster]

I mean, the point is to avoid a conditional check inside the common input loop. The only way to do that is to either magically know or assume the actual ranges (and ideally, curve) of every analog stick anyone might ever use, or to measure it somehow. Ideally that would be a calibration routine someone could run once per controller rather than being measured inside the main loop. That suggests an analog stick calibration should be added to the main menu OSD controller configuration sequence.

[surreal summit]

I think the best thing long term would be to have some sort of stick calibration in the MiSTer main when you setup a new controller. I don’t think this was a priority before because everything was 2D consoles. But now we have PSX, Saturn, and N64 there needs to be a set translation from the stick values to console specific values.

[ebon oyster]

Exactly. That would be the right way to address this universally.

[vapid hawk]

it's not as if the ARMs can't handle it

this discussion reads like we're trying to run on a .5mhz pic

[ebon oyster]

It would also enable better off-center / deadzone behavior.

[lone geyser]

That would solve the range tracking. We still need to only apply the scale and clamp when running the N64 core from a binary that runs core-agnostic

[vapid hawk]

main does loads of core specific stuff already

[ebon oyster]

hrm, true...

[compact depot]

Most pads will use the -127/127 range. Why not having a file for each exception with the ranges? That could be per vid:pid

[ebon oyster]

Also true... but does it do it during the input loop?

[vapid hawk]

isn't all this code behind an isN64 switch ?

er, not in the input loops yet i don't think, but it's in the IO loops and stuff

its not that high cost

cd code has tons of them

[quasi storm]

I think Rayman is perfect, now!

[lone geyser]

It's been discussed, but there are a few different ones for the N64 specifically and it would be whack-a-mole to get them all

[ebon oyster]

Keep in mind everyone's obsession with minimizing input lag. That's why alarm bells go off if anyone suggests adding any overhead into the common input loop. Sure, one addition may be trivial, but it sets dangerous precedent -- slippery slope.

[quasi storm]

The award for "Most favorite sound effect ever created" goes to...

[vapid hawk]

if we're super concerned with input lag it should be easy to prove if this adds any or not

we have rigs for that

[mellow path]

I'm getting some weird save autoload behaviour from the CIC detector. Whenever I load Majora's Mask Redux Patch it will say "use database with save if needed". But when I manually set the save to flash and reset, the game doesn't automatically load the save file, I have to manually reload it with OSD. I would have overwritten my save if I didn't have the presence of mind to back them up first. Definitely something to check out, because the main use case for this is rom hacks not in the database right?

[weary palm]

Sorry, I've submitted a hot fix for that.

[ebon oyster]

sure, but the question is, if 20 other cores see this approach in the code and decide to follow suit, does input latency then suffer death by 20 cuts?

[compact depot]

An if on each poll for checking the running core would add what 1uS of lag? That’s too bad

[vapid hawk]

i'd be stunned if you could even measure it

[mellow path]

Ok, great. Thanks!

[vapid hawk]

there are already checks inside the controller loops for stuff like

is-this-a-wiimote

[compact depot]

Yep

Vid:pid too

[ebon oyster]

I agree, but the entire community is paranoid about this particular topic, so any such proposed change will face more than the usual pushback and challenge, which is already generally difficult.

[vapid hawk]

is-this-a-random-logitech-controller you've never heard of

seriously its fine

[mellow path]

The autodetector is a huge improvement for me, so thank you @weary palm 🙏

[lone geyser]

(Markun managed to whittle the actual scale and clamp down to 110ns btw, lots of tinkering but it's quite impressive)

[compact depot]

Aaaand if you wanna be serious about lag just get a RetroPad32 🙃

I’m out 😄

[ebon oyster]

Okay, good! Then any pushback/challenge to the PR can cite that as a reason to not be concerned.

[ebon oyster]

Nice! That info should be proactively included in the PR description to improve the odds of it being accepted.

[vapid hawk]

if we need to we can ask porkchop to test the latency, it's kind of his whole jam

[compact depot]

It will be non perceptible

[vapid hawk]

yeah its going to be under the margin of error

[ebon oyster]

agreed

but being armed with hard evidence to prove that can only help

[vapid hawk]

@graceful radish can you please do some science for us on this new mister main? we just want it quickly tested for any latency regression

[compact depot]

Is checking for the running core more costly than checking vid:pid?

[vapid hawk]

don't think so

[lone geyser]

You all still seem to be under the impression that this is coming to Sorg for the first time. I haven't spoken to him but I know Robert and Markun both have and he expressed concern about the check in the loop. I don't know much more and don't think it would be my place to share if I did. I'm just leaving it to the adults while I tinker with my toys

Maybe he wants to wait for the core to mature to see if it could fit in FPGA

[twin barn]

yup, best to wait and see

input stuff to these specific degrees are usually not ironed out so heavily early on

[vapid hawk]

why would you want to do this on the fpga

[compact depot]

If checking for the core costs too much just create a fucking flag and check for it

[lone geyser]

To eliminate it from the input loop

[vapid hawk]

that doesn't sound like a good trade

[twin barn]

the ARM has a dual core processor, one core is pinned at 100% doing a constant check for the inputs and other duties. every little bit you add into it could potentially be inefficient. it all depends on what sorg and markun come up with

for the analog joystick math stuff, it's usually in fpga entirely

[compact depot]

Ir should cost the same as checking for the vid:pid at least

Or even less

[lone geyser]

We've already proven that the scale and clamp can be done with at most one flop, so it might not even be that big in FPGA

[twin barn]

best to be patient regardless

[lone geyser]

(Though the ARM side actually does flops faster than bitshifts in some cases. Really neat stuff)

[twin barn]

fpga can do bit shifts really efficiently 😛

[vapid hawk]

checking what core you're in should be practically free, it's a single bit fact that only changes when you change cores

[compact depot]

If the PR is already open then give it time and sorg will come up with the approach he thinks is best

[twin barn]

can just wire them as bit shifts from one register to the next, so no inter-flop needed

[vapid hawk]

it can probably be L1 resident permenantly

[lone geyser]

That was actually why I explored this problem at all in the first place. I wanted to optimize a bitshift only version and then it worked, lol

[weary palm]

For @mellow path and others who have had problems with rom hacks. Also includes markun's joystick fixes.

[twin barn]

for simple stuff, bit shifting instead of multiplying/dividing/complex adder'ing is usually better in fpga

[twin barn]

is that the pending PR you put up?

[modest helm]

What does this mean by save fix? Does it fix the MGL issue?

[weary palm]

Yes, +markuns unsubmitted changes.

[twin barn]

nice

[ebon oyster]

So I see an interesting symptom in the controllertest ROM with the main build containing the clamping/range fix: at rest/center, the test rom shows the analog stick X-Y values rapidly alternating back and forth between two different values.

[weary palm]

sorry, but what's mgl? xD

[lone geyser]

Heads up, markun's latest changes change the shape of the clamp slightly. We actually aren't sure why but it was induced by adding flops to get the numbers down

[twin barn]

think of it like a shortcut in windows but for mister for launching core+roms https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_MiSTer/advanced/mgl/

[compact depot]

Lack of dead zone?

[lone geyser]

MiSTer has a deadzone

[compact depot]

Hmm

[ebon oyster]

Ah... no, looks like the test rom may have a bug and just got caught once in a bad state. Resetting it cured it.

[dense chasm]

Yeah, ive had it be screwy before as well

[weary palm]

noted

[compact depot]

@lone geyser I don't see any open PR for that feature in main MiSTer github repo?

[lone geyser]

Discussion isn't from a PR, I just know it's been discussed

[compact depot]

Then I say it again. Open the PR.

And we take from there.

[lone geyser]

Talk to markun

[compact depot]

Already asked him to

[lone geyser]

I can't submit a PR on his behalf 🤷‍♂️

[compact depot]

Let's wait for him. Whenever he's ready.

[lone geyser]

It would be nice if the input loop included a quick call to a second ARM binary that was core-specific. That would limit code complexity in the main loop and still allow divergent behavior where necessary. I'd imagine the overhead would be a bit more significant though, especially because you don't really know what you'd need to pass

[compact depot]

How many controllers don't use full range? about 2 or 3?

[twin barn]

relax please, patience. it doesn't have to be submitted immediately, there's probably a good explanation why it hasn't been submitted yet. it'll get figured out 😛

[compact depot]

A static map that is loaded by the N64 core could make it

In order to make it "speedier"?

[lone geyser]

A map is basically a LUT right?

[compact depot]

Yeah

For the ones which are full range

[lone geyser]

I think Markun already went down that route

[compact depot]

Ok

[twin barn]

a LUT in the core would occupy BRAM, BRAM read/write would entail multiple registers and added timing. usually avoiding using BRAM is preferable. since it can probably be done with some shift math i think doing it with a LUT would be less efficient

[compact depot]

Not in the core

[twin barn]

ah

[compact depot]

Main uses the LUT to translate ranges

[lone geyser]

If we ever get here, I can do this. Really just want a min variance [0.5ms] controller (would probably use a DaemonBite arcade adapter and just wire the button to be used directly) then compare the results with the two mains. Would probably need to step up the resolution on the reported times and run it for a while to see anything, but really that's a good thing, lol

[compact depot]

And send translated ranges to the core

[lone geyser]

As mentioned, the function is really fast. The issue is that you'd still need the input loop's permission to run it

[compact depot]

I have no doubt it's fast if it's using bit shift

[lone geyser]

Latest version actually mostly isn't

We found that in a lot of cases it was faster without them

[compact depot]

It makes sense depending on the case, yeah

[last scarab]

anyone try this controller test?

[cold pollen]

Maybe there could be a controller calibration script so everyone doesn't have to do calibration

[last scarab]

This rom allowed Nintendo Service Representatives to test the buttons on the N64

https://twitter.com/forestillusion/status/1454367347293097991

Forest of Illusion (@forestillusion)

Today we have released the NUS Controller Checker for the Nintendo 64! This is a prototype for the controller checker in the well known N64 Test Cartridge used by the Nintendo World Class Service Center to test and repair systems.

Likes

751

Retweets

122

Twitter · Oct 30, 2021, 8:39 AM

[surreal summit]

Well, couldn't there be default values for all recognized controllers? I.E. PS5 controller doesn't need to be calibrated because they will theoretically all be the same. I think the way controllers work currently is that there are default profiles loaded for those that are recognized anyway?

[cold pollen]

That would require a maintained database of all known controllers and their analog limits or whatever

seems much more cumbersome

[surreal summit]

I guess what I am saying is, I thought that already existed, you would just have to add the analog values to it. Maybe I'm wrong.

[cold pollen]

well yeah you'd want that value stored, and I suppose people could add it over time and if it's not available or you don't like it you could run the script

[zealous hull]

Hey all, apologies if this has been answered, but do we know the particular reason vanilla OoT isn't booting? Have we narrowed it down to a RDP issue? CPU?

[warped cobalt]

I am not sure if it helps, but that sky glitch is not there on real hardware, I just checked.

[mortal apex]

@zealous hull I dont think we did, but I might have missed it. Last time I read a comment from Robert on the subject was a few days ago: #1096015979055697940 message

[zealous hull]

Totally missed that message. Thanks much for linking it. That sucks. I wonder if it could potentially resolve itself as he builds out / fixes the rest of the core. Fingers crossed.

[surreal summit]

Probably not really worth it, but couldn't someone compare the calls that the GC/LodgeNet/unQue version make vs the original versions to figure out where this crash is originating?

[weary palm]

I tried, but I couldn't figure it out.

[surreal summit]

unQue [hack] version boots BTW. I don't know if that has been mentioned before.

[languid dune]

Nice! Thank you!

[zealous hull]

Yeah, I'm just messing around with randomizers.

I tried the OoT/MM combined rando, no luck there.

Which tracks.

Majora's Mask Randomizer works so far, it seems. That's pretty neat.

[vapid hawk]

that randomizer doubles up as a great quality of life patch too

like you can have no randomization and just a load of improvements its awesome

[zealous hull]

I've not played it much. I love the D-Pad shortcuts though.

[vapid hawk]

stuff like speeding up text scroll etc

[surreal summit]

Without breaking Discord TOS, where would I acquire such a thing?

[zealous hull]

I gotcha

[vapid hawk]

the randomizer is legal

https://ootrandomizer.com/

or this if you don't feel like doing the stuff yourself:
https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5138/

[zealous hull]

This is the MM one I use
https://github.com/ZoeyZolotova/mm-rando

There may be a better one out there?

Someone can correct me if so.

[vapid hawk]

these are some of the most impressive romhacks i've ever seen tbh, especially since they predate the decomp

[surreal summit]

IDK people were concerned about Romhacking[dot]net links the other day so I wasn't sure.

[vapid hawk]

they don't host roms

[zealous hull]

I still think there was an issue around it. Something about the forums?

[raw oriole]

No, that was a misinterpretation of the error message

[zealous hull]

Ah.

[raw oriole]

It was actually objecting to Quest 64 😄

[zealous hull]

Well, there I go, spreading misinformation.

[vapid hawk]

btw @wanton sun you can use the OOT randomizer to make an easier version for your daughter if you want

start with more hearts etc

[surreal summit]

That's a cool idea.

[vapid hawk]

ah here's the exact thing i was using:
https://github.com/Admentus64/Patcher64Plus-Tool/releases

it supports a bunch of n64 games

[languid dune]

I didn't know that Rean Schwarzer created a patcher tool! 😂

[orchid nimbus]

#1096015979055697940 message @tidal zenith

[tidal zenith]

Omgahhhhh

Enjoy

[carmine kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-wow-shocked-gif-13356121

[cerulean elk]

ooo whats this

I came for the N64. I stay for the random food shots

[brisk edge]

yeah, this tool is very good for customizing both N64 Zeldas

[cerulean elk]

https://youtu.be/ufnWxVrpyIU

have fun. Goemon persisted. Mostly because I am at the pet store buying loaf and more things we forgot

[surreal summit]

Understandable, have a nice cat

[hearty oar]

Someone should poke sorg about cutting a release for the MiSTer Linux kernel so we don’t have to worry about people manually updating it for their NSO controllers anymore…

[cerulean elk]

more hungry mouths to feed. Kittie is mowing through wet food

guess when you dont get consistent meals for the first six weeks the hunger sets in

[quaint pewter]

Thanks for looking into this. I knew something strange was going on but I couldn't put my finger on it and you look like you have really dug into things. I really hope this helps so it can get sorted. It would be nice to have another rpg style game on N64 to play other than the one that shall not be named! 🙂

[surreal summit]

If you're not settled on PepsiMan for a name you should let your wife name the cat. Creates emotional attachment. 😈

[cerulean elk]

haha its not gonna be Pepsiman

she's proposed a name...so she is invested 🙂

[odd vector]

Wait does Goemon work now?

[cerulean elk]

intro is in sync and I gave a sound sample. Sadly not the intro song....copyright flag

[odd vector]

But not the game itself, right?

[cerulean elk]

not yet

new stuff in vid is...trying to remember even though I did it today lol...Ogre Battle, WDC...and other things? lol

all a blur now

[odd vector]

😔

[cerulean elk]

the best N64 game got better so everyone should be happy. Bomberman 64 is at par with OG hardware

[mild ether]

You should keep the Pepsiman name.

[cerulean elk]

I mean ILL call him that lol

our pets usually have dozens of names

[hollow orbit]

My NSO controller worked fine and I’ve not done any Linux-fu?

[mild ether]

Mr Pixel Peeper?

[cerulean elk]

our dog is Amaro, Mari, Marbo, Marbanyan, Banyan Canyon, jubbles, canyonero, scruffles, dogbert...and thats all I can remember lol

[hearty oar]

Does it rumble/work wired? Or is the updater pulling the new kernel now?

[cerulean elk]

you got your JRPG in the saturn video yesterday...dont give me hell! lol

[hollow orbit]

Um I’ve not tired either of those use cases yet. I’ll have to try when my son’s not looking so he doesn’t realize we have N64 on MiSTer

[languid dune]

But where is my Magic Knight Rayearth bacon? Where is my Magic Knight Rayearth!?

[cerulean elk]

go and capture it and send it to me 😆 I am backed up on channel work now thats NOT MiSTer

[mild ether]

Same for Gals Panic?

It's actually a good game.

[chilly ember]

I randomly chose that magic knight when I tried the saturn core, waaay too anime for me lol. Wouldn't be so bad if could skip the dialogue

[mild ether]

Still haven't setup the Saturn core though. I am a horrible Sega fan.

[chilly ember]

I never had a saturn so the library is all new to me

[fair stump]

It's like I could read people's minds

[marble cargo]

I do admit Magic Knight Rayearth has a really slow beginning, because they need to dump exposition for the people not familiar with the source material.

[chilly ember]

It was the first game I tested when saving was added and got stuck listening to all that dialogue for like an hour

[twin barn]

np, it's one of the best titles on n64 in my opinion so it will be cool once it's working

[languid dune]

Do it! 😡

[mild ether]

Maybe tomorrow afternoon when I get home.

[dreamy ridge]

what do you have to do to set up the saturn core?

[balmy dagger]

I haven't either. Been patiently waiting for CHD support. Then I'll jump in.

[languid dune]

Mostly the usual stuff. Download the latest build from unstable nightlies, acquire the bios, etc. Create a games folder named "Saturn" and place the bios in there. CHDs are not supported yet.

[balmy dagger]

VGE's latest video may be the one to convince me to try the N64 core. 😅

The NSO N64 controller work ok for folks?

[languid dune]

Don't want to go into too much detail here though. Should do so in the Saturn thread.

[languid dune]

Yeah, the NSO controller works great.

Including rumble.

[balmy dagger]

Excellent. Thanks, @languid dune

[raw oriole]

Hop over to #1046941029296779344 and check the pins 🙂

[dreamy ridge]

thanks...didn't know if he was meticulously tweaking settings or something to get a god-tier experience or something 🤣

[languid dune]

I mean, just being able to play anything on Saturn is a god-tier experience. 🤘

[mild ether]

Especially Gals Panic?

It does have a great library in general though.

Best way to ever play virtua fighter 2 on MiSTer that will probably ever happen.

[cerulean elk]

unless we see Model 2 but I have my wonders

I try to stay optimistic so I dont say doubts

[mild ether]

I would love to believe that will happen but it seems like a really heavy lift for someone to make it.

[cerulean elk]

you get a lot of juice for the squeeze with Model 2 though

[balmy dagger]

What are you talking about? The Genesis version is aces.

Model 2... feh. Yeah, if you like polygons, I guess.

[mild ether]

I guess I imagine it taking as long to develop as the Saturn core with a smaller library.

So many processors on those boards.

[devout leaf]

Sorry for the ping @desert crow but is there a SNAC build for the new controller pack stuff? I scrolled around and didn’t see anything so sorry if you answered recently.

[eternal ravine]

Damn, RE2 sure changes video mode a lot
They seem to have used every trick in the book to cram that game onto N64

Wish I had a CRT

[desert crow]

it might be a bit before you can use paks with snac. I did a snac build a day or so ago though it you want that dm me.

I was going to try and do a build tomorrow if we get socks or a car or nothing at all for xmas tomorrow

[woeful beacon]

holy shit XG2 bikes and tracks are here!

this core is absolutely flyin

[brisk edge]

If you disable the expansion pack it'll stay at 240p

Actually on that note, I'm guessing the database forces the expansion pack but this is like the one game it probably shouldn't lol

[eternal ravine]

Yeah i remember reading that a number of the expansion pack games use interlacing

[brisk edge]

Most games of this era only switch resolutions at certain points but RE2 on N64 just switches all over the place, it's why it was always a nightmare upscaling it

[eternal ravine]

I really need a decent CRT for some games

Not that I'm rushing to play RE2 on N64

[brisk edge]

Or a good deinterlacer

[vague sun]

@cerulean elk In Waveracer 64 you turn wider than my Grandmother with her huge Cadillac used to

and name the cat Pepsi ❤️

[split lynx]

Oh? what is this? I really dont want to get a huge bulky CRT

[manic basin]

That's me. I, indeed, turn very wide as I'm new to N64.

I pulled the right bumper and ended up buttonhooking right into a wall, so there's somewhere between those two things I have to figure out still.

[vague sun]

Gotcha. What controller are you using now?

[manic basin]

But, we don't capture for gameplay....we capture for content. Hehe.

[cerulean elk]

wow @manic basin thems fighting words

[vague sun]

the analog stick on the N64 is like nothing else

[manic basin]

OEM + 8bitDo stick replacement.

[vague sun]

ahh. so you should be set

[manic basin]

It was definitely WAY worse before since I had to keep vanilla main for other cores.

But at least I'm placing.

Now.

[vague sun]

I just wanted to get in on the razzing AwBacon. Now I feel like a bad person.

[cerulean elk]

try being good at 100s of games all at once lol

[vague sun]

I'm good at Pepsiman, so that starts me off at 100

[primal bolt]

leave him alone he has an FX3

[cerulean elk]

within 48 hours I now read Pepsiman and think kitten

[weary beacon]

Is there color banding on the n64 core or am i crazy?

[primal bolt]

I need him for my tv show

there is on textures but I assummed it was the textures themselves

some textures, not all

but if direct video would fix that im jumping ship

[weary beacon]

Maybe bc of lack of dithering?

[languid dune]

If I had a way of capturing video, I'd totally do your F-Zero captures!

[primal bolt]

maybe. doubt you can notice on CRT but I do notice on textures in people's videos

on cameras increasing the color bit-depth fixes banding

[marble cargo]

Color banding is definitely noticeable without that dithering implemented.

[primal bolt]

last week I was filming in 10-bit color and noticed banding on the wall from a light

I switched to 12-bit and it went away

[weary beacon]

Im playing on a crt as i type this lol

Not that noticeable

But its there

[primal bolt]

on textures you mean?

[weary beacon]

On everything

[warped patrol]

DK64 audio issues seem to be fixed. Been playing last few hours without any cache delay and everything has been perfect.

[weary beacon]

Stuff that i believe would normally be dithered

[cerulean elk]

I need to get some new captures of Dk64 soon

[weary beacon]

Pretty visible on lit areas

[weary beacon]

Do you have a youtube channel?

[primal bolt]

dithering isnt on the core yet?

does direct video increase bit depth?

[weary beacon]

Not from the looks of it

[cerulean elk]

can never tell here who knows me and who doesnt lol

[weary beacon]

I have a guess as to your YouTube channel identity...

[warped patrol]

https://youtube.com/@VideoGameEsoterica?si=U3MIMKpki8caGkzN

[weary beacon]

Non-helpful hint

I was just watching your vid

[weary beacon]

My guess was correct!

[weary beacon]

Keep up the great work

Colors look wrong in the pic

But

U can see some banding on this lit wall

Wish i knew how to shoot better crt pics

Cuz it doesnt really paint the picture like real life

[warped patrol]

I'd help, but I'm too lazy to hook up my capture card to my mister lol

[weary beacon]

This video shows it better i think

[primal bolt]

yea but it could be the actual texture file

[weary beacon]

It changes dynamically with the lighting though

[primal bolt]

oh ok

its probably just how n64 is and dithering hides it some

but if direct video increases bitdepth in color then it might hide it even more or remove it

[weary beacon]

To me it looks like if you disable dithering on the ps1 core without enabling the 24 bit color option

[primal bolt]

do you need direct video to use that 24 bit option?

that would certainly remove banding

or do you just need hdmi? im on component crt

[quasi storm]

I think I'm going to stream some more tonight. Head on over to the voice channel if you're interested. You could even suggest some games you would like to see!
See you there!

[weary beacon]

No you dont need direct video though

That option is just in the ps1 core though

The texture work in majoras mask is probably the best on the system

Looks beautiful compared to ocarina of time

[manic basin]

Anyone want to set up a .sav bank for N64? Getting later levels for capture is a pain. Hehe..

[fair stump]

I have a 100% clear of THPS if anyone needs it 😄

Just with one skater, not all of them

[manic basin]

I'll take it!

And I'll do a kickflip. Poorly.

[primal bolt]

my childhood is filled with trying to do kickflips

i remember i was afraid to land them with both feet

[manic basin]

I 'yoostacould' as they say.

But it's been eons.

And pounds. So many pounds.

[fair stump]

I've never skateboarded before and tried to learn a shove it last year. Scary stuff when you start 😅

[primal bolt]

skating is dangerous

can easily break bones

as I am older I realize its not worth it

[manic basin]

That's why you start with a Texas boneless.

[primal bolt]

but as a kid or teenager you dont think about things like that

also you arent as brittle

[zealous hull]

The candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long.

[primal bolt]

lol

[manic basin]

Ayup

[zealous hull]

That's why the older I get, the more extreme shit I'm going to do.

Gonna be the first 80 year old to jump through a flaming hoop.

But perhaps not the first one to do it and survive.

[modest helm]

Great idea. Got a 100% Star Fox 64 file.

[mellow path]

This is my behaviour: If I set the save type before loading MM redux, the save loads. If I set the save type after loading, and then reset, it does not load.

[hazy arch]

I enabled the dev core in my downloader.ini, ran update_all but I don't see the core in my core list, did I miss a step?

[candid copper]

you need to run downloader

not update_all

@hazy arch ^

[hazy arch]

ooooooh ty

[regal prism]

What's the state of N64 controllers?

As in,

If you had to choose, how would you approach controlling N64 games on MiSTer?

For context, you do not have an N64 controller in youir inventory.

[brisk edge]

outputting the game at native res (through hdmi or analog video) and using an upscaler with a deinterlacer is kinda what I meant, something like a retrotink or ossc. Although honestly with the n64, I think Indiana Jones is the only game that has to run at 480i, along with pokemon stadium 2? or maybe that was just the menus or something.

[zinc dew]

Oh no, my five year old has discovered Donkey Kong 64

I’ve listened to them theme song three times in a row already

[fair stump]

I just picked up a Saffun controller and I'm happy with it. Much better for me than a normal controller

[chilly ember]

DK!! Donkey Kong is here!

[hearty oar]

I would get the NSO controller if it’s available in your region direct from Nintendo

[fair stump]

At least it's not the forbidden game

[regal prism]

Can you preform a test for the control stick?

[fair stump]

Like the controller test rom? It's currently wildly out of the normal range so I have to wait for the joystick fix to be widely available

[regal prism]

-_-

[fair stump]

At this moment it just means it's more sensitive than it should be and some games have specific issues with it but that will all be sorted out in time

[zinc dew]

Hmmm Donkey Kong 64 isn’t retaining its save for me

[marble cargo]

What do you mean just collect everything in one sitting you casual

[dreamy kayak]

Why cant i hold all these bananas?

[balmy dagger]

Time to git gud, Robby.

[lament lagoon]

No I'll try that now. Thank you I didn't even realize it was a different build.

[manic basin]

Double check your system settings and make sure it's set to EEPROM16 (in the file it'll be eeeprom2k...because bits bytes).

Make sure you're always opening the OSD after saving.

[zinc dew]

Yup doing that

[manic basin]

Does the /saves/N64 directory have any .sav file with the same name as the ROM you're using?

[zinc dew]

I’ll have to check, haven’t done that step yet

I do get the saving message, also press save in game before I load up the OS

[manic basin]

I just played through half of level one (first time...no joke)...if my save didn't persist, I'd probably just cry.

Though I'm actually enjoying it so far.

I expected it to be short little bite sized levels. Hehe.

Whoops.

In my limited experience, the most common cause of 'saving...' but no actual file is mismatched save type. But if System Settings is showing EEPROM16 you should be good....<bane>Quite the poser.</bane>

[zinc dew]

I assume user error but I’m a bit perplexed

[fair stump]

Did you format the controller pack before hand?

[manic basin]

Shouldn't need to for EEPROM save.

Does DK64 allow pak copy? I mean, wouldn't hurt to do it either way, it won't cause a problem that I can think of.

[zinc dew]

FIGURED IT OUT

[manic basin]

Woohoo!

[zinc dew]

Launching the game with MGL nukes the save

Looks like it’s the same issue with any game that uses EEPROM16

@modest helm using MGLs to launch games not only delete saves for any game that uses a controller pak but also games that use EEPROM16 to save

16Kbit EEPROM

• Banjo-Tooie
• Conker's Bad Fur Day
• Cruis'n World
• Donkey Kong 64
• Excitebike 64
• Kobe Bryant in NBA Courtside
• Mario Party 3
• Mario Tennis
• Perfect Dark
• Ridge Racer 64
• Star Wars Episode 1 Racer
• Yoshi's Story

[vapid hawk]

F-1 World Grand Prix seems to be working quite well

better game than i remember too

[atomic stratus]

now that The World is Not Enough works, The Core is Enough for Me

[astral loom]

But not enough for the world

[lament lagoon]

@surreal summit That worked great thanks for letting me know!

[atomic stratus]

well played

[zinc dew]

Lol perfect

[orchid nimbus]

64

[cerulean elk]

I still can’t figure out where the carts go

It’s quiet in here so I’ll grease one by the mode (Robby)

Pepsiman returns 😂

[viral wadi]

Adorable

I have a beautiful cat, but last two days this mangey tailless thing has been hanging out in front of my house

I call her Harold

[cerulean elk]

Poor cat. No tail?

[viral wadi]

Nopee

I keep feeding her.. poor thing

Beautiful girlcat for reference

[modest helm]

Good observation. It looks like there may to be changes to how MGL is handled per this core

[viral wadi]

Pretty amazed by the core progress. I thought N64 was a lost cause and invested in an HDMI modded one + everdrive

But def was premature. Given the state of n64 emulation two years ago, gotta forgive me lol

[manic basin]

I think you mean "I have a great way to test and capture video from real hardware to verify fixes and bugs!"

[chilly ember]

I've had an everdrive since late 2016, I got my use out of it. Always wanted a ultra HDMI mod even tho I mainly played N64 on a crt

[viral wadi]

Yah def message me if you need to compare stuff. I have a capture card and everything

I have the N64digital v1 mod. It seems pretty accurate, at least to my nostalgia

Paper Mario looks amazing

Seriously good work re core. I'm blown away that it's even possible

[frail jolt]

I canceled my pre order hdmi mod the day Robert dropped his big fpga D on the table and said... fuck you all, I'm making an n64 core

[viral wadi]

It's low key insane

I'm a dev, but of the web variety. If y'all need some aws help, hit me up... other than that, I'm useless

I have been enjoying playing N64 titles over the last two years though. Glad it's gonna be more accessible. No gatekeeping retro gaming

All my controllers are first player ready

God N64 emulation scene was a mess

[dreamy ridge]

is there any good replacement stick solution for oem n64 controllers?

[viral wadi]

Yah man, check out https://store.kitsch-bent.com/

Not affiliated

But they're products are rly good

[fair stump]

I would have assumed n64 emulation was much more popular and solid than what I've heard

[viral wadi]

I've fixed a few loose joysticks with their replacement parts

U might need some sandpaper and some joystick butter for 100%, but highly recommend

[dreamy ridge]

wooow this didn't exist a few years ago...i was following youtube tutorials to chop pieces of plastic out of bic pens to shim the stick tight lol

i will try these

[viral wadi]

They're cheap also

So steelsticks/metal replacements do exist but imho, they're not worth it

U can get a machine shop to make a brass bowl for like 1/8th the cost if u really feel its necessary, but replica OEM is probably still better

[cerulean elk]

Yeah there will never be a “real hardware vs MiSTer” N64 video cause I’m rocking S video on my PVM

And honestly verdict is already in; one FPGA device that does everything or one hard to mod expensive N64. Winner…3DO

[dreamy ridge]

you can borrow my n64 to scart cable lol

[hearty oar]

Look at you with your fancy n64 that can do s-video. Meanwhile Nintendo saw fit to strip that capability out of my late model PAL n64…

[orchid nimbus]

must cut costs

[viral wadi]

My buddy stole my original N64 and like 500$+ of accessories.

[dreamy ridge]

with buddies like him who needs enemies

[viral wadi]

"I thought u gave it to me"

Dude I left it at ur house over a weekend and u moved

[orchid nimbus]

lol

[cerulean elk]

Might want to stop calling him “buddy”

[orchid nimbus]

literally a Dick move

[cerulean elk]

I don’t loan shit to anyone. Well one dude but that’s for reverse engineering

[hexed knot]

Yeah I think I'd lean more towards "some asshole I used to know"

[viral wadi]

Its okay, I was in college. Hard to have more than a few game systems and still get bitches

Women always want the man with the ps2

Ill still show em my lightgun

[orchid nimbus]

I never had a ps2

[safe heath]

yes,in 20230911 builds already fix it

[tidal zenith]

How were the 🌮?

[viral wadi]

Let's hope Robbie can work his magic

[orchid nimbus]

you saw the pics right @tidal zenith

I go there quite frequently

[tidal zenith]

Ya but they didn’t have any bites taken out haha

Oh ok I wasn’t sure if it was a new thing

[orchid nimbus]

for me no 😄

[covert bough]

Also rocking s-video n64 + ever drive to compare against mister core. It's pretty fun so far

[orchid nimbus]

100tacos can update his name to 101tacos 😄

[viral wadi]

I envy y'all who still haul around pvms and crts

[covert bough]

Hey moving a 55" oled is a 2 man job

[tidal zenith]

Moving an oled is actually the scariest shit ever

It’s too thin to grab

[covert bough]

Exactly

[tidal zenith]

It feels like you’re going to break it no matter what

Instructions be like just lay it face down to install the legs

Uh, no.

[covert bough]

You can still kinda Yolo a 70 lb crt up a flight of stairs if you have to, provided it has handles built into the chassis

[viral wadi]

I let the movers deal with these issues

[covert bough]

Movers don't gaf sometimes

[viral wadi]

Man's got a bad back (or so I say)

[deep beacon]

The trick is to never improve your life so you never have or want to move

[covert bough]

Lol

[twin barn]

which games ar ebeatable so far?

[viral wadi]

I feel that ngl

[covert bough]

Also keep your oled box just in case

[fair stump]

The test sheet has completable ones marked, the number is slowly going up

[mossy needle]

I forgot how annoying dk64 is to complete

[twin barn]

You beat it on the core?

[mossy needle]

Not yet

Working on it

[split owl]

Hi all -- I've been trying to get the N64 core running for a few days now. I installed it via the added lines to the downloader.ini. Every time I try to launch any ROM, it says auto-detect failed. Not sure what else to try.

[fair stump]

Have you tried using the normal update_all?

[mortal panther]

If that's what it says, you are most likely missing the N64-database.txt file in your ..\Games\N64 folder. If the core is set to Auto Detect in the System Settings menu, it uses that file to automatically configure the various settings in the core on a per-game basis (CIC and save memory type, supported Paks, etc.).

[split owl]

Yes, I added the lines to downloader.ini and then ran update all. It shows up when running the script and does install the core and has pulled down the updates from the last few days.

[split owl]

Yes, N64-database.txt is present

Just had a thought though. I have my ROMs stored on a NAS using the cifs_mount... Maybe it's looking for the BIOS and database there for some reason

[mortal panther]

Quite possibly.

[split owl]

Copying them over and rebooting -- let's see

Yup, that was it!

[orchid nimbus]

yes it is

I have a CIFS mount too

[native mesa]

Yeah I remove all local directories that conflict with mount

[quasi storm]

You kitteh was so cute it crashed my mobile app 😆

[quasi storm]

Glad it's working! Now, get to enjoyin'.

[noble ember]

I updated the N64 core today and now my Road Rash 64 memory pak save is gone

[quasi storm]

Did you load Road Rash after playing something else? There may still be a mempak issue when loading games back to back.

If so, try reloading the core, and then loading Road Rash as the first game.

[noble ember]

@quasi storm I updated, loaded the core, then Road Rash 64 as my 1st game

[quasi storm]

Still nothing?

That's a bummer. Maybe try the "Reload save ram" option, and reset? If not, then RIP... Its just the way it goes in the early phase.

[noble ember]

OK thanks

[quasi storm]

How far along were you?

[noble ember]

Level 3 but damn I was having fun with the 4dapter + Superpad 64 controller

[quasi storm]

I'll jam a pool cue in their spokes for you 😢

[noble ember]

Lol

[quasi storm]

I'm just going to go off on a quick tangent and say that that is one of my favorite things to do...😆

[surreal summit]

Sweet, glad you got it working!

[zealous hull]

Unsure if it's been reported before--and I also know it's a TLB game. But the Select file to start string is wrapped in a green border on the file select menu in Paper Mario.

This isn't typical. Just thought it was a very easy thing to get to: takes barely 5 seconds.

[orchid nimbus]

most likely the same as in dr mario - if that's even a bug in paper mario

yeah should be yellow

but green looks good too

[zealous hull]

Correct

[wanton sun]

if it writes constantly and clears the memory before, it might be an issue with saving, because you cannot know when a consistent state is there. But it could also be a bug that it writes constantly....

[orchid nimbus]

gutten morgen 😄

[wanton sun]

Hallo 🙂

[twin barn]

Yeah, figured there might be something weird with it writing constantly. There are NES games that do this so maybe how that core handles it could be approximated.

[quasi storm]

Maybe put this into place as well. It might prevent issues going forward

[wanton sun]

we should look again when more bugs are fixed

[noble ember]

@wanton sun OK thanks. Where do I place that file

[wanton sun]

you need to place it directly in the sdcard. rename the old "MiSTer" file to something else and place this file as "MiSTer"

[noble ember]

Ok

Where do memory pak saves go? Maybe my save file didn't get deleted

[wanton sun]

saves/n64

[orchid nimbus]

I used a new mister today which fixes the n64 stick - games feel so much better now

[noble ember]

Got it

[hexed knot]

Ah, been meaning to try that unstable version that adjusts the sticks.

[noble ember]

@orchid nimbus do you use a real N64 controller? A real N64 controller is so satisfying when playing

[wanton sun]

when the game is loaded, make sure in system settings that controller pak is on and that you open the OSD after you saved ingame, then it will say "saving"

[zealous hull]

Sorry, would you care to tell me what exactly this fixes, if you happen to know? I'm noticing I'm having issues importing existing saves now, whereas I wasn't before.

[noble ember]

@wanton sun OK yeah I have been doing that this whole time and controller pak is on

[wanton sun]

if there was a "saving" message you must have a save file

[noble ember]

Yea

[wanton sun]

and unless there is a bug with this game, this should also load back

[quasi storm]

So... I'm a simple man. It was posted earlier today, and it says save fix, so maybe it will keep your saves from getting lost? It's an updated unstable mister main.

[wanton sun]

it only helps if you don't have a database...

[zealous hull]

No worries! Just thought I'd ask.

Gotcha. Won't help me then.

[wanton sun]

i recommend to everyone to use the database...really

[quasi storm]

It also includes the clamped analog stick ranges as well. No harm in plugging it in.

[zealous hull]

So this is basically an unstable-unstable.

[noble ember]

@wanton sun I will probably back up my save to my PC periodically now

[zealous hull]

Nice.

[manic basin]

Robby mentioned MGL earlier....what is that? I assume <something> game launcher ... like maybe a script...Mobile game launcher?

It's interesting to know it wipes save files. Like black and yellow on a bug...I'll leave it be.

[quasi storm]

I think I remember that games loaded this way could nuke saves.

[zealous hull]

It's basically a launcher that pairs a core with a game.

[manic basin]

Copy, thank you

[zealous hull]

I have it setup for arcade games.

I also use it for my RFID reader.

So--instead of going into a core and launching a game--you can just launch the game directly.

[twin barn]

It's like a shortcut file to load the game and load the rom. The timing for it might currently be a little off and sorg may have to adjust it for this core.

[wanton sun]

could it be that the core name in mister main is not detected as n64 with mgl and therefore no database is used?

[twin barn]

Hrmm that's possible.

[wanton sun]

or the save files are placed somewhere else?

[manic basin]

Cool, thank you! TLAs are not TCB for me.

[twin barn]

The saves are in the right spot.

I think it's because the core auto formats cpak on startup

[wanton sun]

well, one could check with a game that uses non-standard cic or other settings if they are loaded properly with mgl

[twin barn]

The game loads instantly when you load via mgl

[wanton sun]

that could also be the reason. the core formats the cpak 1 second after the clock is stable

[noble ember]

@twin barn maybe that's why my Road Rash 64 save was gone after I updated the N64 core today

[wanton sun]

if the save is downloaded before the game, it might be too late

with normal core boot, you cannot load a game within 1 second

i need to wait a minimum time, as i cannot format right at core boot, because the sdram is not ready

[twin barn]

You can on some cores that allow autoloading a rom. I thought there was a time delay option in mgl files

[wanton sun]

are only cpak broken in mgl or also e.g. flash saves?

[twin barn]

Whoever is testing with them just delay for 5 seconds and test again

[noble ember]

@wanton sun did the latest n64 core break cpak saves?

[wanton sun]

no, the latest core only changes some graphics handling

[zealous hull]

Isn't Road Rash 64 cpak?

[manic basin]

Robby hit it with EEPROM16

DK64

[old vortex]

This is the issue I bought up the other day, but it didn’t sound like anyone had any ideas on how to solve it. I just expect that more and more people will run into it now that the download script can grab the database file.

[noble ember]

@zealous hull yes it is

[wanton sun]

if eeprom is also hit, it's very likely the database

[zealous hull]

I'm not sure I understand the issue?

I'm using a NAS, and I just put my BIOS and database in the same folder on my NAS as my games. Isn't that what you're supposed to do?

[manic basin]

I'm CIFS and yes, bios and DB are in /games/N64 on my CIFS mount, not my SD.

[old vortex]

The downloader will only work if you’re using /games/N64

[zealous hull]

Oh.

The downloader.

I see now.

[manic basin]

Aaah, yes I think that's 100% SD hog.

[zealous hull]

I just like to do things manually. Or write my own custom scripts. But I'm a weirdo.

[old vortex]

I get it, and I know it’s not hard to solve manually.

[manic basin]

Big same

[zealous hull]

Yeah, I misunderstood. Totally see where you're coming from now.

[manic basin]

Probably needs a CIFS check...scan directories and if /cifs/games/N64 symbolic link exists, copy there.

But... I don't maintain that one.

[old vortex]

I just think this channel will have to answer the same question multiple times when new people run the downloader and are using cifs/usb/etc and don’t see why it isn’t working.

[maiden wyvern]

main should check for it on the sd card

[twin barn]

Most people use the micro SD for storage. There's more than just the n64 core that uses files downloaded to their games folder

[zealous hull]

Yeah, I've already helped out 1 or 2 people in that exact scenario. USB loading.

[manic basin]

It's absolutely the 80/20 (more likely 95/5) case for sure.

[split owl]

Yes indeed -- I just asked/figured this out about an hour ago

[zealous hull]

To your point. If you're "hardcore" enough to setup a NAS share to host games, you probably would have some idea of potential issues with pathing using a script.

[manic basin]

Yeah, that's my take, too.

[maiden wyvern]

well it will happen for usb drives too

[manic basin]

But I get people being new and excited to try 'the new hotness.' If it can be made more robust, with no extra perf cost, could be nice to do.

But....not a high pri given the distribution.

[zealous hull]

That's extremely valid.

[twin barn]

Personally it didn't effect me and I use a nas, so not sure how you mounted your nas. I use the cifs mount script

[manic basin]

Do you use the updater script for N64? I honestly just assumed you were all manual. Hehe.

[zealous hull]

Not to be off topic, but my username is purple now. Please excuse me while I pop-off in #general-banter .

[old vortex]

Yeah. All good points. Just wanted to highlight it again now that I saw it happen in the channel. Obviously not saying it’s a huge issue or anything, but if anyone can do anything to make it even more automatic, I just think it’d be a win. Love all the work that has already been done though!

[twin barn]

Yup. Thanks!

[split owl]

CIFS mount script here too and I needed to manually copy bios and database to the NAS share.

[manic basin]

There are also a lot of folks (for all cores) that have duplicate /games/<core> on SD/USB/and or CIFS.

Which is potential issues for some cores. Others handle it just fine.

[twin barn]

Hrm, maybe I did it manually and forgot. Ah well

[manic basin]

Being a newb is rough in the MiSTer world....

[twin barn]

It will get downloaded with downloader when the core is ready so it should be more ironed out then.

[manic basin]

Also true

[twin barn]

It's part of the fun. It's a simple system and you keep unraveling the layers like a deep fried onion

[zealous hull]

Okay, I'm back.

[manic basin]

"Who doesn't like parfaits?"

[zealous hull]

Yeah, I'm still discovering the depths you can go to on this machine. It's incredible.

[manic basin]

LIterally went from "I want to play Super Mario World with less lag than my OG Xbox" to "I'm learning the DMA structure of a Hitachi processor from the mid 90s that was documented by 10 feral housecats;"

Great project....it's absolutely the modern micro hobbyist project. I wasn't there for the 8bit scene, but this feels like I imagine it would have felt.

[zealous hull]

So it seems I can no longer rip saves off my original carts to use on the core? At least with Paper Mario. Going to do some further testing. I assume a byproduct of how we handle cpak saves?

[wanton sun]

you can, but might have to convert/concat/endianswap them

[manic basin]

Double check the hash of your dump against the DB. You might be ripping LE or Byteswapped depending on your ripper and if it doesn't have correct save type a lot of games will puke, too. So verify the hash you have has the correct capabilities as some were added missing them.

What @wanton sun says.

[twin barn]

Paper Mario's not working anyways. It's a TLB game.

[manic basin]

Gotta get that sweet, sweet savegame screen.

[zealous hull]

I'm very aware. 🙂 I just like to stare at the home screen longingly every day.

[zealous hull]

But I did that before the core was announced too, to be fair.

I just really like Paper Mario, you all.

Yep, can confirm Kirby 64 save off my cart imports fine. Just gotta fix the Paper Mario save, I suppose.

[manic basin]

I did Donkey Kong 64 in anamorphic WS today. You have to stretch it ( I mean, that's hardware accurate, it was always a 1.3:1 pixel ratio, not a direct widescreen output) but it actually looks pretty damned good! I don't want to go through the hassle of setting up my audio to convert the dolby prologic though (I heard you can just combine and boost L&R for center and then some other small math pass for rear).

[zealous hull]

Oh hey question about that. I read earlier that people were having success with widescreen support in Rare games. Just need a sanity check, but changing the widescreen settings in DK64 doesn't actually change the screen size, does it?

[manic basin]

No, it squishes the X axis. 1.3 : 1 versus square pixel ratio.

[zealous hull]

Gotcha. I personally wasn't noticing any difference, but maybe I wasn't looking hard enough.

[manic basin]

If you don't stretch it you get some weird anamorphic wobble when it goes from wide cutscenes to fullscreen wide fram.

[zealous hull]

Thanks! I'll stretch it and see for myself. 🙂

[manic basin]

It's pretty subtle. You can see how DK is too wide when stretched in the 'normal' image, but corrects when set to wide.

This is an anamorphic stretch, btw. DK Cineprime Zeiss 1.2F super fancy Director of Photography mode!

[quasi storm]

Phatty Kong

[hearty oar]

I did float the idea of making main fall back to SD card for bios files a while back and even implemented a quick test locally, it’s hard to do it in a way that isn’t really clumsy due to the way the file path/storage mounting system works currently

Like it’s just a function that constructs a path based on a hardcoded precedence of mount points, ending with the SD card

Really we should probably just seperate bios/support files from games, that would make it trivial with how things currently are

[zealous hull]

What, just have them in their own directory?

I would be in favor of that for sure.

Would there be any logistical issues with the update_all script just moving existing files into newly created directories?

[maiden wyvern]

i think that's how it should work too. i can see downloader has some provisions for this, but i don't think it's right to be handled there

[manic basin]

Downloder.ini does have setups for this, too.

[maiden wyvern]

this is a dynamic path. it can change depending on your current network and whatever is plugged in

sure for most people that's stable

[manic basin]

Yeah, that's what we were discussing earlier.

I think we're generally good overall for the vast majority of people.

[maiden wyvern]

it looks like the behaviour of this db and every individual system bios load is sort of hardcoded

[hearty oar]

Yeah that’s what I meant by “clumsy”

the curent system is essentialy "create file path following hardcoded precedence" -> "try to fopen using that path" -> "fail to open file and give up"
My local change to fix this quickly was just going through every place in main that tried to load something I would consider a "bios" file and add a manual fallback to a new function that just constructs that path with the SD card only

not really sustainable

[maiden wyvern]

it sounds good to me

[hearty oar]

probably could just wrap that in a new function that both constructs the path and tries to open the file, then does the whole fallback thing

[maiden wyvern]

how many more cores with bios are there gonna be really you know

[hearty oar]

true, I guess it can't hurt to open a PR and see what sorg thinks - I guess I just wasn't very happy with it at the time lol

[manic basin]

Initial setup is the biggest concern (for a large number of BIOS d/ls), but honestly...that's kinda designed to go to SD. But yeah, if you can make it work that'd be great!

[zealous hull]

Would you happen to know off the top of your head where in the code your code change will be made? I'm half tempted to fork and mess around for fun.

[maiden wyvern]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/tree/master/support

[zealous hull]

Appreciate it. Sorry, haven't really peaked at the code before.

[hearty oar]

also made some tweaks to file_io.cpp/h and user_io.cpp

[zealous hull]

Rad. I'll keep an eye out for your PR too.

Just wanted to look now.

[lone geyser]

Imagine not running around with a custom modded MiSTer binary in this, the year of our Lord, 2023

[hearty oar]

I can upload the changes to fork in a tick for you to look at I guess, will just need to rebase on latest

not that there's much to it

[zealous hull]

Nah, no worries, I'm heading to bed soon anyway. I'll just keep an eye out. But thank you.

[hearty oar]

I'm going to have to do that to make a PR anyway lol

[zealous hull]

Oh sorry, for some reason I read that as you would ping me when you were done.

I was telling you not to.

Blah. It's late.

[dense chasm]

just tried to pair the n64 nso controller, and it gets recognized in bluetooth, but wouldn't leave and is picking up lots of phantom inputs. guessing i need that driver!

what do i do with this zimage file?

[hearty oar]

there is a helpful guide here: https://vampier.net/N64

see "NSO N64 Setup" section

[dense chasm]

The bluetooth pairing script says "press finish when done", and i've never figured that out, lol

Thx!

i'm embarassed because i literally had the faq open and didnt scroll down enough :/

[ebon oyster]

I've decided to box up and return these Brawler 64 NSO controllers. After more detailed evaluation in wired mode, the analog stick response is incredibly inaccurate/asymmetric, and I just can't get a reliable wireless connection. Back to Amazon they go.

[hearty oar]

that's a real shame, because the blue one in particular looks really cool

[dense chasm]

after using the saffun controller and NSO, i can confirm the obvious (build quality feels much more sturdy), and note that the joystick is much "snappier"

Tested both with rumble, and they both work. Saffun seems a little bit more rumbly

(btw, that linux update is still needed, after doing that it synced up perfectly and all buttons are recognized. in the controller setup Ihad to map the joystick to stick 2, did no mouse controls or x/y buttons, and also did the tilt for the joystick. not sure if thats necessary, but my first time around it didn't recognize the up and down inputs in the controller test rom)

[dense chasm]

Latency seems similar, the saffun feels like it may be a little quicker but i'll wait for Porkchop's numbers

X-input (hold start+B, it switches to 2 lights) seems to work better with the saffun

[zenith orchid]

did anyone get far in HM64?

[dense chasm]

I just loaded it and played the first day, but it worked well that far, haha

[manic basin]

I picked up some rocks and got told by a beefy guy that I dissapointed him by not having any goods for the day. But I was just grabbing footage. I may sit down and PLAY it play it soon, so I'm interested in other people's experience as well.

[zenith orchid]

yeah I'll try getting a couple days in

apparently HM64 is closer to what HM for SNES was envisioned to be. but then the PSX have switched up everyone's roles and stories, and it diverged quite a bit from there

[amber saffron]

How does rumble support work?

I have no idea how that stuff gets mapped to controllers, will it just work with my xbox360 & 8bitdo controllers?

[zenith orchid]

if it's supported it should just work

[manic basin]

Just set the pak in the OSD and it should work fine .

[zenith orchid]

the framework handles usb/bluetooth

[manic basin]

(and pick a game that supports it, of course)

[lethal wren]

You just may need to use your controller with X-Input mode, and that should work fine

[amber saffron]

I think I'm in X input mode, but I'll confirm, thanks!

[vapid hawk]

morning team

[mighty bone]

xenocrisis for n64 now boot to Bitmap Bureau logo and locked up there.. good progress

[old iris]

where did you lose your conscience?

[manic basin]

Try turning on writeback. It's not optimal, but usually you can get into game that way. It plays OK, sound is a little messed up. It will still lock up on occasion, though.

[mighty bone]

Ah ill try.. Thanks

[tropic sand]

Update Mister re Save state...

2023-09-24 707085c]
Fix my previous pull request

Some users complained that some games weren't working anymore after my submission. The reason is that I always set save type to 'none' when the game wasn't detected in the db. This reverts some of the old behavior, don't touch the save type and controller pak settings when these settings are unknown because of missing db.```

[true briar]

Hey everyone. I have been trying to get Super Mario 64 up and running with the latest core without any real luck. I get the standard freeze

[manic basin]

You need to apply a 'no face' patch.

The stretchy face at the beginning makes an unsupported call.

Check the pins for info.

[true briar]

@manic basin I had applied the No Face patch but nothing as yet

[manic basin]

Does it freeze with garbage at the top of the screen?

Or do you just get a black screen?

[true briar]

@manic basin yes it has the garbage at the top of the screen

[manic basin]

Yeah, that's almost assuredly the stretchy face call. Hmmm. Which patch did you apply? The one from pins? It has to be applied to the US version for that specific patch I believe.

Oh, it moved entirely to the FAQ.

[true briar]

The LodgeNet no face ips

[manic basin]

Yeah, so one of those should work. And your base rom was the lodgenet rom?

[knotty zealot]

a conoundrum. fix mario face or lose face.

[manic basin]

I'd try a standard rom. Versus one of the hacked service roms.

[knotty zealot]

how desperate are you to play mario 64 at 30fps? play it flawlessly with widescreen at 60 on pc

[true briar]

I think that is it I am using the standard USA rom

[knotty zealot]

the pc version has faces

[manic basin]

OG Xbox is my preferred way right now, hehe. It's very nice but still gives me that nostalgia hit like vinyl records.

[true briar]

@manic basin Hey do you have the link to the FAQ? I cant seem to find it

[manic basin]

Huh, not sure where the standard US patch went.

https://vampier.net/N64

[compact depot]

I love the smell of Robert's Patreon writings in the morning! 😄

[knotty zealot]

"i'll be happy if i get out of bed tomorrow." at sunset, robert has aquired five mansions, fifteen ferraris and a yacht.

[manic basin]

I can make one but it'll take a moment.

[true briar]

@manic basin thanks so much for the help 🙂

[manic basin]

NP.

My only patch creation tools are on a 98 VM. Hehe.

[wanton sun]

i probably lose some readers with the article this time, not sure it can be understood without previous knowledge of the system, but i was so happy about the fix, i just had to write about it

played penny racers yesterday, it works great now, feels just like 20 years ago, with all the good and bad about it, haha

[manic basin]

For
CRC32:
3ce60709
MD5:
20b854b239203baf6c961b850a4a51a2

[vapid hawk]

Great article thanks !

[quick arch]

You don't have crashes ?

Thank you for the patreon post !

[vapid hawk]

the passion really comes through the writing i like it, i even think the explanations are very good

[true briar]

@manic basin Thanks for that I will apply this and see how I go.... Thanks again for all the help 🙂

[vapid hawk]

i've been playing a bunch of banjo kazooie, its very stable, over five hours playtime no crashes

i did find a couple of spots/creatures in the game that exhibit near constant stray pixels

specifically when you get turned into a termite your legs are covered in them

[velvet nest]

Guys, stupid question. I can't get savesates to work. If I press the assigned button for savestates and then Dpad Down, it seems that it is saving but when I preas again the savestates button plus Dpad Up I get only a bkack screen. Thanks!

[vapid hawk]

core has no savestates, that button mapping is just a tease lol

should probably be removed like the osd controls were

[velvet nest]

Ah thanks for coming back to me. I missed that..lol..

[vapid hawk]

no worries !

you can still use regular saving, just not savestates

[velvet nest]

You mean ingame regular savings right?

[vapid hawk]

yeah

[velvet nest]

Perfect, thanks again

[vapid hawk]

anyone else tried hydrothunder ? i can't get it to crash anymore, played 2 hours

[manic basin]

Same. Had a blast, but not a crash !

[vapid hawk]

i couldn't unlock the hard courses to be 100% sure but i bet thats completable

not because of any bugs, i'm just not that good at it 😄

[manic basin]

Same same

[weary palm]

Same bat-channel

[bronze tree]

I created a pull request of the joystick emulation with the latest changes from @lone geyser

fingers crossed 🙂

[weary palm]

Hooray! You two are grrrrreat!

Merged!!

[bronze tree]

now let's hope we didn't mess up 🙂

I'm especially curious about the N64 controller clones from Amazon that were reportedly not working great with the previous implementation

[daring meteor]

Did you test em?

[wanton sun]

i have two off them(cheap usb n64 controller clones). The first broke the z butten in few hours, the second has ghost stick movements, like you move left by a small amount and it goes full up

[daring meteor]

Oh, great, its merged

[bronze tree]

well, then they will never work great 🙂

[daring meteor]

I think I'll use this layout:
A on Y
B on X
C up on B
C left on A
C right on Black
C down on White

[wanton sun]

in the US version i completed the C-Series, played about 90 minutes or so

[lament escarp]

Finally I can run on unstable again. Been using the custom stick emulation since the first version.

[mild ether]

I got one of the cheap Chinese N64 controllers if you want me to test something.

Not USB but actually N64 via blissbox

[vapid hawk]

yay - thanks everyone who worked on this

[bronze tree]

the unstable build is there, please report if there are any issues

[vapid hawk]

i'm curious if this has unintended side effect of "fixing" bad analog sticks on oem pads through usb adapters etc

like if your real stick generates a skewed octagon on real hardware, or can't push to 85 on the cardinals this would sort of restore it

at the expense of some precision

ran a quick test with the retrobit tribute64 wireless, perfect, same as yesterday

[candid granite]

Hey, someone can help me solve an issue with the core?
So I saw Robert showing his progress on SM64, and I can't even get the game running. I get an E0800400 on starting the core, which seems to be no real issue for most games, but maybe it's why I can't play SM64. So I always get the title screen, hear the "It's-a-me, Mario!" sound and then I get garbage on the top half of the screen and nothing happens anymore. Tried PAL and NTSC version, checked the BIOS files for correct SHA-1 values... everything seems correct, but I can't even start the game.
Any ideas what to try else?

[mild ether]

You need the no face patch.

Look at the pinned comments

[candid granite]

Oh... I see...

[mild ether]

It's on the FAQ website.

[tropic sand]

https://vampier.net/N64/

[candid granite]

I even was on that site (that's where I got the hash values from)... now I'm feeling a little stupid. 😄 Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

[mild ether]

You're welcome, no worries.

[wanton sun]

It's still a pain we need the patch, but i can accept it, because otherwise the game is fine 🙂

i think it was completed before, but i will still try to see the 70star ending. I'm playing on PAL so that is probably not something that is often done

[cerulean elk]

Yawn…5:30 am and feeding a kitten loaf from my lap and reading what’s new lol

[quick arch]

ok i need to test again choro q 😍

[weary palm]

German text?

[wanton sun]

It might be funny, because of the small amount of text in this game, but yes i prefer that over 5 fps more

i only switch to ntsc if the framerate is really important for the game, e.g. racing

[hearty oar]

I guess yeah it's a bit different for those of us in PAL regions where english is the spoken language, to me at least the NTSC version of a game just feels like the same thing only yeah higher FPS and no black bars

[cerulean elk]

Just read your patreon updates @wanton sun fun explanation

[hot spoke]

What's missing to make the face work?

[remote hatch]

TLB

[hot spoke]

It's just used for the face in M64? Interesting!

[remote hatch]

Yes, It was done by someone else, not Nintendo

[rose elbow]

if banjo kazooie was developed in UK that means the PAL version is the og vanilla version right ? 🤔

[vapid hawk]

arguably yeah

[remote hatch]

https://youtu.be/zK66pX5Jw9o?feature=shared

[daring meteor]

iirc there's UK developed games which were meant for NTSC

There's also some Japanese games which were meant for PAL

[zinc dew]

That is true, also the L and R buttons can be depressed along any point of the button on NSO. On the Saffun it’s a hinge so you can push them down on the inner portion of the button.

[oblique remnant]

saw that a while before. very interesting interview. some mario 64 devs quit their job after this game the crunch must have been brutal.

[zinc dew]

Yeah, Japanese game dev is very bad for employees unfortunately.

Bad pay, guaranteed long hours, low glass ceiling for promotions if you’re not Japanese. I interviewed for a couple of places and had to turn them down.

[oblique remnant]

I guess he's been treated differently as "gaijin" he said that he was feeling sorry for the main coders as they had huge pressure to release it in time

[mild ether]

Is it like that for jobs in general there for westerners?

I have heard mixed things about how they are towards Americans but lots of what I hear is from people who were in the military so hard to know how much that is a factor.

[zinc dew]

I do not know but I assume it depends on the industry. Anyways this is kinda getting offtopic, apologies.

[mild ether]

Ok.

[zinc dew]

@wanton sun you don’t have to worry about this but just pointing this out in-case other users bring it up.

Using mgl files to launch N64 games will overwrite save data for EEPROM16 and CPAK saves.

Oddly, EEPROM4 is unaffected.

[worldly flint]

Seems like the first step for TLB is to dummy it in so that games that initialize it but never use it will boot.

[weary palm]

Giles Goddard is a god damn genius programmer. Started working on Nintendo and Miyamoto at age 18. His first project was Star Fox.

[zinc dew]

He also made 1080, a genuine feat of engineering at the time. It’s miles better than literally any other snowboarding game of that generation.

[maiden wyvern]

in the interview he says he doesn't think anyone would want to go back and play old games haha

[zinc dew]

I actually understand that sentiment

His perspective is also wrapped up in some personal baggage too I imagine.

[cold pollen]

Imagine playing those dusty old games

[mild ether]

Seems like any game that attempts to address anything on the TLB part of the memory map should just hang until it gets implemented.

[maiden wyvern]

he said because he doesn't have time to play. he has to pick carefully

so he picks new games

[cold pollen]

I just like having them on a little card it makes me feel powerful

[zinc dew]

TLB will be addressed in good time. I am glad the rest of the hardware is being shored up before TLB.

[mild ether]

Yeah there is plenty to play and test without it so it seems a good decision to wait on it.

Nice that the fix for SM64 was so easy.

[silent marten]

I am 3 levels from the end of A Bug's Life, I have done the whole thing live for a friend of mine so I believe it belongs in the completable category 🙂

[worldly flint]

Supposedly Mario Golf and Mario Tennis initialize the TLB but never use it, so it should be possible to get those games working just by giving them a "TLB"

[mild ether]

Hmm. I will fire them up in an emulator and see what I can figure out.

[compact depot]

It’s perfect with my four players XBOX One to USB adapter! Thanks @bronze tree and @lone geyser

[pallid moth]

where do I download this controller test?

[compact depot]

@pallid moth

[zinc dew]

Give ‘em the TLB sounds like a mafia code-word

[hearty oar]

sounds like a sandwich

[compact depot]

Same results with the RetroPad32! Amazing work, guys! 👏

[zinc dew]

The only thing I don’t like about this PR is that it allows heathens to use non-standard controllers. We all had to suffer for the N64 using the trident and so should you!!!

[wanton sun]

Fun game. Only issue i found is that some shadows have 1 pixel outlines

technically it's not complete, there is AA class, but it's just more of the same

[drowsy lantern]

I’ll have a footlong TLB on Italian herb and cheese please.

[mild ether]

Looks like Mario Golf uses TLB

[zinc dew]

Give the translated sequel a shot. It’s called Choro Q2 - https://www.romhacking.net/translations/3620/

I think it works just as well

[fair stump]

From the translation description: "Only released in Japan, it was even less remarkable than its predecessor. Its lack of depth and features does make it quick and simple to localize"

That's a ringing endorsement 😅

[native mesa]

Nice article Robert. One can tell how rewarding an experience this is for you.

[zinc dew]

LOL

[wanton sun]

those games are really not for everyone, but i like the happy style and the upgrade system. Also there are easy tracks everyone can do and more difficult you really need to master, so it was nice to play for a longer time...i mean back when i got it, it was 1 game per 3 months or so

[fair stump]

I know that Series has a bit of a cult following

[zinc dew]

I think the cult following is just in Japan lol. But hey, those are adorable racing games and I love Everwhere Road Trip for the PS2. It’s a CaRPG!

[compact depot]

Hopefully with markun fixes I will be able to play penny racers without having the car tipping over all the time! 🤣

[zinc dew]

Oh lord yeah

[compact depot]

I tried it before and my immediate thought was: this game is broken! 🤣

[wanton sun]

the second game really looks nice. better menu system and much smoother gameplay. Will try it, thank you

[deft tree]

they were based on actual RC cars that were somewhat popular in japan. I had one of the Audi TT DigiQs

[zinc dew]

@wanton sun not sure you saw but another interesting texture issue is actually toggable in 007 TWINE if you want a fast and easy way to repro with seeing it turn on or off - #1096015979055697940 message

[wanton sun]

it's the 32bit mode being broken in the core, yes 🙂

[zinc dew]

Oh nevermind! I thought it was some weird texturing issue lol.

My bad

[wanton sun]

no worries 🙂 will not fix this for the current video out hack, will look at it again when the correct VI is in place

[zinc dew]

You’re the best!

[zinc dew]

Yeah! I actually almost bought one of the recent Choro q RC cars for my kids but it was like $60 after shipping lol.

[wanton sun]

i think some other games like doom also have that issue

[daring meteor]

Really seems like VI's the next step with how well games are running

[daring meteor]

Is Dr Mario the same?

[zinc dew]

Yeah, that shows up immediately on boot so maybe the easiest for repro.

The enemy sprites have that red applied.

And the enemies show up immediately as part of the intro.

[wanton sun]

i will start with the VI as soon as i have some days without being interrupted

[daring meteor]

My favorate Mario Character

[vagrant ivy]

Better to use Emacs. Let the Editor Wars commence

[daring meteor]

Emacs is my favorate part of the N64

[zinc dew]

MiSTer Fast Facts

Did you know the N64 has a special processing mode called T.L.B. that some games use for rendering Mario characters? It’s because T.L.B. Stands for “Tender Loving Bits”, which Miyamoto demanded so his characters would feel loved by the hardware. It actually does nothing but they needed to pacify Miyamoto during development.

[mortal panther]

Too bad we never got Emacs 2 in the States...

Really well received in Japan, apparently.

[zinc dew]

Also a good character in Mortal Kombat 3

^ that one was for my homie @deft tree

[vagrant ivy]

Instead of Finish him he shouts Ctrl X

[mortal panther]

"Flawless Edit!"

[daring meteor]

Edits your body to dead

[deft tree]

error macro reporting in

[pallid moth]

@compact depot my controller test is like this, 127 to every corner, is it bad?

[hollow rune]

I will mark Smash as completable. Did everything except item switch, but I have trouble believing that's the one thing that fails. Will mark that I haven't done it yet.

[fair stump]

It'll never be able to play the violin again

[mild ether]

Sorry to anyone who sent me a direct message I ignored in the last month. I am nearly a boomer and can't discord.

[compact depot]

You need to update mister main with latest from #unstable-nightlies

[hollow rune]

My dad watched some of those Board the Platforms and was like "I actually did this as a kid?"

[native mesa]

In Smash?

[hollow rune]

Yeah

Trying to just do it all at once is not super fun

[native mesa]

Yeah how else would you unlock Luigi! (I actually don't remember how to unlock him)

[hollow rune]

Break the targets with starting 8 characters. That is pretty easy

[real void]

@wanton sun I know it's a bit of a meme at this stage to show your post about having one game running by Christmas. Can I ask, if you could revise your goal for Christmas, what would you like to have in place by then?

[zinc dew]

To have two games running by Christmas

[onyx minnow]

VR headset interface

[silent marten]

I would assume having T-Pak implemented

[cerulean elk]

you are in an extra mood today lol

[fair stump]

This was the last I heard #1096015979055697940 message