Nintendo 64

[lament escarp]

I guess no developer wants to make a bad game, so it's either sheer incompetence or some nasty publisher not giving them enough time.

[hearty oar]

Nobody sets out to make a bad game, but yeah sometimes you just have to deliver in a certain timeframe at a certain cost

Although yeah, sometimes it is just something going wrong, see well renowned AAA studios taking 6 years to deliver an absolute lemon of a game

[lament escarp]

Other m comes to mind...

[hearty oar]

Sakamoto really is the George Lucas of games

As soon as he wasn’t as technologically constrained, and didn’t have to listen to strong voices telling him not to do silly things that’s what we ended up with

[hearty python]

However, bad games often come onto the market because the greed for money is simply too great and a certain release window has to be adhered to.

[marble cargo]

A lot of licensed games are like that. They're produced as cheaply and quickly as possible to make a profit.

Which to be fair is kind of a necessary evil for independent developers looking for work. They often pump out licensed games in order to keep the studio alive and fund more ambitious original works.

[lament escarp]

Plenty of publishers are also pushing for games as a service, which also compromises any decent game design imo.

[cerulean elk]

So what…couple days till I can play Bomberman Hero on the core? Haha

[modern sleet]

Superman 64 plays better on Roberts progression core today then an actual real n64

[vapid hawk]

remember back then there was basically no unreal engine or unity, no asset stores, there was barely even APIs on the hardware

even just making a game that rendered something and didn't crash was a miracle

[hearty oar]

The APIs, the SDKs and all the tooling have improved, sure, but the complexity, especially for large games, has shot way way up

I guess yeah it depends on the scale and the type of the game you are trying to make, and whether or not you are using an exisiting engine and tools or making your own

it would be accurate to say that the barrier to creating a functioning game has been dramatically lowered (which is an awesome thing)

[languid dune]

I unironically like Other M. Major story issues, but it's a fun game.

[native mesa]

Light? There's like 2 RPGs. Is this a setup

[cold pollen]

I need to play Other M

[sullen harbor]

There were about 3 released worldwide and 5 released in Japan only

[neat sierra]

There’s a secret message to decode, you’ll never guess what it is

[ocean lily]

sounds like time for a Qυesτ!

[languid dune]

The Quest for the N64 core!

[worldly quartz]

That game sure misses a lot

[lament escarp]

I loved every metroid game, including on nes and gb and I'm one of the butthurt fans who can't forgive metroid other m. If it was only a game I don't like it'd be one thing, but it put the franchise into hibernation for a decade.

[hearty oar]

I enjoyed it more than Federation Forces I guess

[hollow rune]

Did anyone play this game? With other people?

[hearty oar]

With other people? Of course not, someone else would have needed to be playing it for that to be possible

[zinc dew]

Everyone forgets Aidyn Chronicles

[native mirage]

I thought Federation Forces was a lame rebrand attempt. "Oh we have a really shitty coop shooter here, I know, lets rebrand it as a Metroid game ! That will make it sell thousand times better !"

[native mesa]

There was almost a decade between super Metroid and prime

We got fusion the same day too though

[modest helm]

Try being a modern DK fan. Have t gotten a game in a decade and no one bats an eyelid

[hearty oar]

Oh damn, it’s actually been 9 years since Tropical Freeze. 5 if you played on Switch

Still feels like a “new” game to me, but I guess that’s just me getting old now…

[lament escarp]

At least tropical freeze was good!

[modest helm]

And no sight of a new game whatsoever except vague “rumors”. Metroid fans have it MUCH better than other IPs. I’d prefer having a game announced prematurely and restarted than being left in the dark for a decade

[modest helm]

It was good, but Jungle Beat was an atrocity

That’s our Other M or Federation Force so to speak. A game that forces you to play with damn bongos 🤮

We basically had a decade between DK64 and Returns since no one played Jungle Beat and now a decade since TF and whatever is next lol

We have a theme park coming though which is so weird for a franchise that’s on life support

[hearty oar]

I unironically love Jungle Beat

I still have my bongos somewhere

[modest helm]

More power to you friend. I tried but I hated it

[lament escarp]

At least you had representation on every nintendo console since snes. Where's my n64 and wii u metroid?

[modest helm]

That’s changing with the Switch. No more DK anymore

Wii U ports don’t count

[lament escarp]

Funky kong is better than a new game!

[modest helm]

Hahaha you have a good point there

[hearty oar]

That sure was a funky new mode

[modest helm]

I have to watch a Mario movie to get my fix lol. Can’t even get DK64 on NSO

[modest helm]

I stand by my belief that Star Fox fans have it the worst of anyone though. Their last game was awful and there's no new game in sight

I thought Pikmin fans had it bad, but they got Pikmin 3 and 4 recently so they've been treated well lately

[oblique remnant]

There was also a Pikmin Game on the 3DS. Same goes for starfox allthough its a 64 remaster only

[lament escarp]

Ya'll forgetting starlink! Even came with a nice arwing!

And starfox zero was just peak! Peak crap ofcourse.

[cold pollen]

I can't wait to complete 64 Quests on this core

[native mesa]

Well DK was mostly Rare so that explains the wait. Also Dave Wise definitely lost his touch so even if there was a new DK it would be sad

[covert bough]

Kinda weird that Rare only does sea of thieves now but I'm sure there's not much of the old crew around anymore

[modest helm]

Legacy Rare is currently split up between Playtonic and current Rare

[covert bough]

Oh that makes a lot of sense that they'd be involved in yuka laylee

[zinc dew]

I won’t defend DK64 but I like it

[topaz otter]

The lighting in that game is a technical masterpiece

[topaz otter]

The framerate wasnt really the problem in that game

It was the bad ai and the unfinished buggy levels

Ign reviewed it and then i went and rented it to see just how bad it was

They werent lying, it was worse

[zinc dew]

I thought the flying level was ok lol, not good but ok

The second level is so bad

[topaz otter]

The multiplayer was guys in floating wheelchairs

[zinc dew]

Like everyone shits on flying through the rings but man that second level is really where it shines in being awful

[topaz otter]

Imagine capture the flag with professor x

[zinc dew]

That sounds amazing, I never knew it had multiplayer

Like what character do you play as?

[topaz otter]

Superman lex luthor braniac, probably jimmy olsen

Everyone is jn a wheelchair with lasers on it

You chase each other down tunnels

After we were done dying of laughter

I took that crap back to blockbuster

[modest helm]

Superman 64 launches on the latest build?

[modern sleet]

I never said that 🙂 I just said it plays better 😉

[modest helm]

Oh, by not playing at all 😉

[zinc dew]

yeah it was a pretty good joke lmao

[woeful grove]

The problem I see in this channel is that about 95% of the games library is memes.

Why can't you all just talk about mario 64 and OOT nonstop

[zinc dew]

Mario 64 is cool because it had Mario in 3D

[compact depot]

Close this channel wen

[zinc dew]

Zelda the Ocarina of Time is cool because you can shorten it to The Legend of Zelda TOoT and toot means fart

in all seriousness there’s a ton of obscure but pretty incredible titles on top of the well known stuff

[woeful grove]

swords r fun

[zinc dew]

I’m actually pretty excited to play Zelda again. It’s such a wonderful game. I think in particular my kids would like it.

[hollow pebble]

Mario 64 is the worst Mario.

[zinc dew]

Maaaaaan really

[hollow pebble]

😎

[zinc dew]

Thinking about this seriously…

[golden ocean]

I want to play Diddy Kong Racing

[zinc dew]

maybe that’s the one I’d least like to go back to?

[golden ocean]

Why can't Mario Kart be good 😕 I like everything in it from tracks to characters, but give me something else to do than just race.

[hollow pebble]

When Mario Kart Wii came out we stopped playing it to play Mario Kart 64.

[golden ocean]

Imagine Designing Mario worlds in an adventure type career where you have objective and special boss races

[desert crow]

Momma mia

[hollow pebble]

I only drop the best takes.

Like, comment and subscribe.

[blissful plaza]

Maybe one day, I could play once again the Mystical Ninja series on the core.

[brisk edge]

When they work, I will replay both Banjo Kazooie and Mario 64 for the thousandth time

[modest helm]

There's also the Rare games but Nintendo fans don't count it bc it's 'competition' so I guess Crash and Spyro don't count for PSX bc they're Xbox IPs now

[zinc dew]

I absolutely adore Mystical Ninja on the 64, it’s like a hybrid between Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time

[woeful grove]

huh?

[zinc dew]

lol wut, Rare on the 64 is like half the reason to own the system

[woeful grove]

yeah I like donkey kong country

wait that's snes

neverind

[modest helm]

There's just some weird fanboys online who think that the Rare games 'don't count' because its a company owned by Microsoft. Dumbest thing I ever heard lol glad those opinions aren't common here

[blissful plaza]

The first Mystical Ninja on N64 was my game for "waiting" Zelda 64 (as we called it by that time). @zinc dew

[brisk edge]

Mystical Ninja 1 was definitely pretty ambitious for a third party at the time

[zinc dew]

Yeah that’s silly, lol. Rare games on the N64 are pretty incredible imo

[modest helm]

The Mystical Ninja games have eluded me. Would love to try them some day

[brisk edge]

They can be a bit rough around the edges, but they have a lot of charm

[modest helm]

Those AKI Wrestling games are so god tier

[inner bronze]

I will play Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask to death on the core when these games run, and they dont even need the TLB I hear. There, that's all I can say on the matter. I need memes to keep me going.

[topaz otter]

Doesnt sound like a problem to me

[zinc dew]

I love that game. It’s got such a specific vibe and fun going exploration aspect to it even if it’s simplistic. One of the first games I played that felt like there was a coherent explorable world beyond the immediate area.

[modest helm]

Lots of hidden gems on the N64, it just gets overshadowed by memes. Best hidden gem on the platform is Stunt Racer 64. Great arcade racer that no one has ever played bc it was a Blockbuster exclusive

[inner bronze]

How would I have ever learned about the gem that is Brian's Adventure 64 without this channel

[golden ocean]

I'm taking notes when this core is playable 👀

[inner bronze]

(I will unironically play it)

[topaz otter]

More like 75%👀

[inner bronze]

Oh, you're a Rare fan? Name all their N64 games then.

[woeful grove]

donkey kong country!

[modest helm]

It really is true. Frankly, I think Rare had a better output than Nintendo on the system. It's really close though. Btw, I'm referring to Nintendo EPD (EAD at the time), so not Intelligent Systems, HAL, Camelot etc.

[zinc dew]

Buck Bumble

[topaz otter]

https://tenor.com/view/55-burgers-fries-tater-tots-pastas-gif-16276634907982959412

[modest helm]

Quick pull up Wikipedia and act like you know every Rare game off the top of your head!

[golden ocean]

I played Jet Force Gemini on their Xbox collection and I adored that game

[deft tree]

I replayed starfox last week, still a banger

[zinc dew]

Imagine playing that game with “N64 controls”

[golden ocean]

I never held a N64 controller in my life 😂 I had a Famiclone until 98 when I got the PS1, never got any Nintendo consoles after that

[modest helm]

Those controls suck lol. It's like down C to jump. Completely terrible on a modern controller. You have to press down on the right stick haha

[zinc dew]

Jet Force Gemini is like a few design decisions away from greatness, collecting those little furry dudes was extremely difficult and I think mandatory?

[topaz otter]

Pretty sure collecting tribal heads has no reward

[golden ocean]

It's been years since I played it but I don't remember that 🤔 can only recall camera issues

[zinc dew]

They improved the controls for the Xbox Rare Replay collection

[modest helm]

Rare Replay is my favorite Xbox game. Is that weird? lol

[golden ocean]

Ah that's why

[deft tree]

Wonder how many more characters smash remix will have by time the core is ready

[modest helm]

Yeah. It's quickly becoming my favorite Smash game after Ultimate. Hopefully K. Rool, Banjo or Diddy Kong are available by then

Mario Kart 64's rom hacks are coming along too

[deft tree]

They’ve done a really good job with the new chars

Yeah I need to mess with some of those again.

I did the 4p Grand Prix one, but it makes everyone’s name aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa on the score screen for some reason lol

[modest helm]

N64 rom hacking is at an all time high. Perfect time for a MiSTer core

[blissful plaza]

My N64 time was almost 50% Mario Kart 64 on Battle Mode with friends and neighbourhood.

And Killer Instinct Gold, so much time with my family on this game

[steady basalt]

Played a bunch of Smash 64 and 4 players Golden Eye.

[orchid nimbus]

pass or smash

neither - we test

😄

[modest helm]

You might like the Duck Dodgers game since you're a fan of Daffy Duck

[orchid nimbus]

actually my avatar is duckula

[cloud peak]

Or Sin and punishment

[orchid nimbus]

but Daffy is cool too

[modest helm]

Yeah. Daffy is my favorite Looney Tune

[woeful grove]

I liked the wil.e.coyote. I always thought just once that poor guy should get a chicken dinner.

Like for thanksgiving maybe he could catch the roadrunner and eat it for a nice dinner with his family as the ending scene.

[covert bough]

There's a great rare retrospective series by the nostalgic gamer on youtube

[zinc dew]

There’s an N64 exclusive platformer called ** Duck Dodgers Starring Daffy Duck**

I should play it one of these days, can’t be worse than Blasto

[covert bough]

https://youtu.be/H_268KOftlQ

[modest helm]

I played through a couple stages. It's actually pretty solid

[zinc dew]

Ah that’s awesome!

[modest helm]

It's a pretty fun game. Lots of voice acting samples too. Feels like playing a Looney Tune cartoon

[zinc dew]

never played but I own it lol

[modest helm]

I like your labels. Very neat.

[zinc dew]

They’re like half done and also the wrong way around because I didn’t pay attention lol.

But yeah, N64 games not having labels on the top is annoying haha

[modest helm]

Agreed.

[lament escarp]

My n64 modkit is finally on the same continent as me! What a thrill.

[languid ore]

Y'all need those in the blue protective cases that Nintendo Power and Toys R Us used to sell!

I used these with a ghetto label maker back in the day.

[vagrant ivy]

what a quest todays work has been its like I have done things 64 times !

or I could say its a Quest 32 + Quest 32

[lament escarp]

This core should run with a proprietary .q64 file format that converts every n64 game into quest 60+4.

[wanton sun]

some vector load instructions implemented

[lament escarp]

3% progress! You're already ahead of schedule!

[wanton sun]

can't work every day on it, so i must make some headstart 🙂

most time today i spend on quartus optimizing...

both codes do exactly the same, but one generates 3 times as much logic

(the lower one generates as much logic usage as the whole MDEC, no joke)

[lament escarp]

Optimizing things is good 🙂 but honestly this goes over my head.

[wanton sun]

what quartus does there is 16 times the same substract, even with it doing exactly the same calculation. Sometimes it can optimize so well and sometimes it just does absolutly stupid stuff. You always have to look for ressource usage after every tiny change if you care for ressource usage. It's annoying

[languid dune]

Always love seeing the updates!

[lament escarp]

I really hope there will be enough resources for a proper plu. I want to mangle marios face!

[neon heron]

Yeah, that seems like a ridiculously easy case for the “compiler” to catch….

[devout leaf]

I feel like a dog. I have no idea what you’re saying but you’re excited so I’m excited

[neon heron]

Basically, the second part of what he is doing in the second example never changes. The problem is that it is happing multiple times.

In that case, instead of quartus realizing that and building the logic to do it once, it create a lot of logic to do it every time.

So, the first example is that “static logic” manually pre calculated and reused in the repeated section

[viral portal]

Basically, things are being done and it's another inch towards games actually playing.

[neon heron]

That is always happening; the example is that even with the tools putting up a fight to eat up all the resources, they are losing.

[viral portal]

I am the lay man

[wanton sun]

the issue is that each of the vector load modes(7 different) requires such a logic and if each costs 2% of the total FPGA logic, it's WAY too much

oh and the 7 vector save modes will require the same

will experiment with putting that stuff precalculated in a ROM. We have plenty of BRAM left, so it could be better

[wanton sun]

usually i wouldn't optimize things unless ressources get scarse but i fear for this core it might be worth it

[neon heron]

Yeah, makes sense, especially for low hanging fruit like that.

[frail jolt]

Just to clarify.... is spass robert?... or just a very smart dude

[wanton sun]

yes this one today was obvious. But everything beyond that will reduce readability and storing stuff in a ROM instead of logic will destroy reability completly. That's why i don't like it

[wanton sun]

yes i am 🙂

[frail jolt]

Love you

Lol

Yah i just wanted to know if I was reading the assumptions of a dude who was like "if I was doing this... x y and z . But... it's not on me"

[wanton sun]

sorry, sometimes i just post nerd stuff here...but who else should i talk about with?

[frail jolt]

Thanks for all you do sir...honesrly...if it wasn't for the psx core...probably would have been content with my analog systems And never made the mister leap

[neon heron]

Nah, nerd stuff is great.

[frail jolt]

Trust me... we love it...

I'm a programmer myself, and was going to start trying to learn fpga to make a Sega cd device...or at least attempt...then like a month into starting research Terraonion dropped their product and I just clicked buy and gave up

I've also been so curious of the process, so this Is awesome

[sharp beacon]

We love it! More nerd stuff please!

[kind nimbus]

Robert let's say your computer dies and you suddenly find yourself with free time

What are you going to choose to do

What's the non-FPGA Robert into?

SUDDEN INTERVIEW CHALLENGE

[wanton sun]

very hard to say...playing computer/console games like i did as a child/teenager has been disappointing for me lately. Most games cannot impress me anymore. Always wanted to learn spanish but never had time, maybe this would be some good time filler

[quaint rune]

Robert, what fighting games do you like and who is your main

[wanton sun]

the last time i played a fighting game was street fighter on gameboy when i was like 12 or so. I don't play such games, sorry. Unless you count Smash Bros. Then it's Yoshi 🙂

[quaint rune]

Smash counts. Yoshi is cool. I mess around mostly with samus and fox. Im not super good at smash but I enjoy it

[kind nimbus]

That has been a funny paradox of retro gaming for me.

I don't enjoy most games I played regularly as a kid

I do highly enjoy the games I didn't know about

Maybe the morphed memories don't match the reality

[wanton sun]

i mostly play the games i played as kid multiple times again and again. They never look old to me as i know them from that time. Seeing other old games i didn't knew before...they always look old to me with bad controls and bad UI....it's stupid, because i could have so much fun exploring "new, old" games, but it's just like it is

[kind nimbus]

You may also struggle from knowing how the soup is made..... You probably stare at every vertex and ponder whether or not it's correct.

Any console, what is your go-to childhood game that you could sit down with for an hour and legit have a good time?

I think mine would be a game from a genre and I don't even play today, like I could play Road Rash 2 on Genesis forever.

I can tell you when the 64 core is quasi operational one of the first games I'll play on it is Wayne Gretzky's 3D Hockey. I played it so much as a kid

I don't even like hockey, nor know the real rules of the game today, hahaha.

[wanton sun]

i had that game, but it was only fun in multiplayer for me

[vapid hawk]

have you played VR at all? its totally re-invigorated my interest in modern games

[wanton sun]

i fear getting sick, so i never tried

i get sick even from games in ego perspective and head bouncing, it's bad 😦

[vapid hawk]

thats much rarer now than it was on older headsets

no headbob in VR unless you bob it yourself 😄

[wanton sun]

but then, what games? with modern games i mostly play open world RPGs. No idea what is available there

[vapid hawk]

i've been way into rythm/dancing games mostly

[wanton sun]

don't want to play skyrim again 🙂

[vapid hawk]

not really what i expected to hook me but they really have

[wanton sun]

maybe i need to open up more for new genres i never touched before. Had a lot of fun with the dance mat which i never thought i would have

[vapid hawk]

synthriders is my favorite, then pistolwhip

[neon heron]

“FPGA Developer: The Game”

[desert crow]

he's the one playing the real qu3st S1xty F0ur

[neon heron]

“Quartus 64”

[devout leaf]

Itch.io pulled me out of a gaming lull. Something about $1-$3 bite sized experiences. Better than just jumping into a 50 hour game.

Fishing Horror Jam was pretty fun

[quick arch]

We have sound on Big Buck Bunny video 🙂

also on Bad Apple video

[deft tree]

classic

[kind nimbus]

Oh? I must look for this

[whole zinc]

Which mod kit is that? 8bitdo one?

[lament escarp]

Yes it is. I also fixed up the original stick with kitsch bent parts so I'll try and benchmark them. But I'll have to do it on pc via emulator, as I have no n64.

I'm also getting an itch for that ps1 controller kit, but I'd much prefer a dualshock. So hopefully they'll make one for those, complete with hall effect sticks and all.

[stoic parcel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPqTte-bas4

[languid ore]

I'm surprised a bunch of the bigger mister devs don't have their own private space where they chat, help each other, etc.

[wanton sun]

there are also some private spaces to talk 🙂

[cedar otter]

And/or plot

[lament escarp]

No secrets allowed!

[wanton sun]

of course those are the places where we discuss the next gen mister, upcoming ps2 and xbox cores and zero latency controller interfaces using quantum tunneling. Only serious talk there. But that's enough secrets for today!

[whole zinc]

Nice, I still need to order the pcb and rumble pack they do.

[lament escarp]

I'm way too impatient when ordering stuff, so the wait always annoys the heck out of me.

[quaint rune]

ps2 core, a man can dream. mmmmm

[whole zinc]

I’ve got a controller coming, metal bowl and have a metal stick to go in it. Going the whole hog.

[languid dune]

https://tenor.com/view/curiosity-curious-intrigued-interested-interesting-gif-14505707

[devout leaf]

Wait a core to connect my six pin PS/2 keyboard!?

Time to dust it off

[inner bronze]

NERRRRRDS

[devout leaf]

A serial port? We’re dot matrixing tonight!

[elfin depot]

funny I just got one of those running a while back

[devout leaf]

Wow that’s nice! Im in the middle of a camcorder repair but the dry rot is worse than expected.

[elfin depot]

That era of Rubber was just...ick. I have a luggable that has a rubber protective skin that I had to disolve off to use as it's at the sticky stage of rotting off.

[topaz otter]

if I never see this printer again it will be too soon

my dad had one

it worked for fifteen years

[elfin depot]

We used to have hundreds where I used to work, and they just kept on chugging.

[zinc dew]

https://twitter.com/quest64official/status/1683895181651607560

Quest 64 Official (@Quest64Official)

Someday Goldeneye and Perfect Dark people will get along

Likes

172

Twitter · Jul 25, 2023, 5:41 PM

Perfect Dark > GoldenEye, and I worked on the reboot too

[languid dune]

https://tenor.com/view/neva-never-marc-homealone-youcantstopme-gif-9816521

[kind nimbus]

Which reboot

[zinc dew]

GoldenEye

[languid dune]

Wii GoldenEye!

[kind nimbus]

Oh nice. I never had a Wii so haven't played that one

[zinc dew]

no DS lol, I just mention that to say that I’m biased and I still prefer Perfect Dark

[kind nimbus]

I thought maybe you meant Perfect Dark x360

Which I did like

[languid dune]

Just remember. Goldeneye is an eye tat is golden.

Props to anyone who remembers where that is from!

[kind nimbus]

I'm not saying it was good, just that I liked it, haha

[zinc dew]

I beat it lol

[kind nimbus]

I may have also been partial to 360 bc I got mine for free, thank you Mtn Dew

So I rode that high for a while

[stoic parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/church-baby-praise-worship-feel-the-spirit-gif-20380865

[modest helm]

You're a game dev? Very cool!

[deft tree]

They’re both horribly painful to play now

[kind nimbus]

aye.

[hearty oar]

I never played too much of either at the right time, so going back without the nostalgia they just seem kind of rubbish compared to the console shooters that came just after

ie. Halo

[kind nimbus]

I recently tried PD (for first time 😬 ) in Simple64, it was only playable after I took the controller config to an extreme, lol.

Those awkward years of not knowing how a stick should be used.

[zinc dew]

Can’t wait for all the n64 fps games

[modest helm]

If we got a turbo mode while being able to play with twin sticks, it'll make it a lot more playable. Both games play surprisingly great on emulators

[ocean lily]

I can't wait for Qυesτ64 Tetrisphere

[kind nimbus]

C buttons to left stick, stick to right stick? Something like that?

[vapid hawk]

the ideal is some kind of mode that maps 2 virtual n64 controllers onto one real dual analog pad

those games would let you use a pair of n64 pads for real dual analog

[elfin depot]

Suitcase gun was awesome in perfect dark

[modest helm]

Reverse the sticks, but yes that's the idea.

[vapid hawk]

if you just map digital controls onto an analog stick it'll feel... bleh

especially diagonals

you want to use this control scheme and then we beg Rob for some mister-magic :

[modest helm]

One funny 'error' with GoldenEye and Perfect Dark is that you run 2x faster if you run diagonally. This is because the game's logic thinks that since you're simultaneously running sideways and forwards that you're running in 2 directions so the game logic adds both running axes lol

[vapid hawk]

loads of old fps games do that

goldeneye speedruns are kinda funny looking they spend 80% of their time running diagonally and also staring at the floor to improve the framerate

[modest helm]

Ha you've seen those too? Funny lol

[hollow pebble]

Do it, but with two people.

The ultimate co-op.

[vapid hawk]

you can i think right? 4 pads needed

[hollow pebble]

You can, but I mean one controller each. 😂

[vapid hawk]

this is a cute stunt you can do using the blueretro adapters for real N64 as well, they have a special mode for it

it feels amazingly like a modern fps with those controls

[hollow pebble]

How is one meant to press A & B?

I’ve never tried using this.

[vapid hawk]

you just like, flick your thumb over

its a bit awkward but you don't need those buttons terribly often

[hollow pebble]

My baby sized hands are already cramping thinking about it.

[vapid hawk]

the hand on the left pad can reach it quite easily

[hollow pebble]

I need to pickup more BR receivers.

[vapid hawk]

you need the internal one to do that GE trick

[deft tree]

They’re on pre order rn @hollow pebble I need to get one too. I scored an NSO controller for my bday a few weeks ago

[languid ore]

This is a lot of games in the 90's. Specially if you were a little behind on videocard or cpu since things were moving so fast. I did this a lot in EverQuest, got example

[manic basin]

Wow, I haven't played around with any of the builds in a bit. Built today and was surprised to hear music in the Psycho and Virtual Springfield demos! Neat!

And Going Quackers is getting a lot further as well!

[wanton sun]

9 out of 11 vector load modes implemented 🙂

(most difficult ones still to be done of course 😅 )

i like the documentation of the different load modes in the systemtest, especially the part about LFV, it's so...specific and exact

[marble cargo]

So if LWV does nothing, could you get away with skipping it to save a little bit on resources?

[inner bronze]

lfv/sfv (fourth) moves every fourth memory byte, and the selection of
which bytes is controlled by the memory byte address. Since fourth only
access four bytes within a memory word, element specifies whether the low
or high four shorts of the VU register are accessed

Fun

[whole zinc]

What is a good usb to n64 adapter at the moment?

[hearty oar]

Raphnet make a decent one at least

[pure ocean]

I've ordered a Mayflash at Amazon and it works good so far on the MISTer. It has two inputs for N64 controllers

[vapid hawk]

does rumble work with those?

[oblique remnant]

looks like min. 3ms input lag that's quiet good I believe. Do you own one? I was thinking to get one for PS1/2 Controller aswell but a SNAC would be under 3ms I guess?

[vapid hawk]

snac is effectively 0ms

i wouldn't get too hung up on that though, 3ms is totally fine

[hearty oar]

I don't have the n64 one, but I've got their Wii classic and PS2 adapters and they are both fine, with the only issue being the PS2 one doesn't do rumble yet

also yeah the tradeoff for SNAC totally isn't worth it for regular controllers, you lose the ability to bind a menu shortcut/control it

[vapid hawk]

i don't think rumble is really coming to their psx adapter at this point tbh

its said that for at least 2 years

[hearty oar]

I'm not holding my breath lol, no

[oblique remnant]

I don't own any SNAC controllers you mean youd choose the raphnet between both as with a SNAC you can't control the mister menu?

[whole zinc]

Hasn’t ever been an issue for me, just have a wireless keyboard 🤷‍♂️

[hearty oar]

whatever works for you I guess

[chrome quest]

Raphnet N64 v3 adapter is great. Can confirm Rumble Pak works (even on MiSTer PSX). Even has Transfer Pak and Controller Pak support too for PC emulation

Not to say that transfers to MiSTer compatibility on all those fronts necessarily, but the adaptor certainly capable

[hearty oar]

the only thing stopping me from buying an n64 adapter is how crappy the sticks are on my controllers, and just how used to playing using a gamecube controller on wii virtual console anyway

so I think I'll stick to those once the patch I merged makes it into the next release

maybe I'll grab a replacement stick and see how that goes if the grey ones ever come back in stock on kitsch-bent

[deft tree]

I’ve been lucky enough to hunt down a bunch of good quality OG pads that still have good sticks

[rustic fulcrum]

I rebuilt the very sloppy sticks on mine with parts from Kitsch-bent. Easy to do, feels like new. Very cheap

[lament escarp]

I did the same but it was still slightly sloppy! How stiff are they when they're new?

[rustic fulcrum]

Very stiff new. What parts did you change? The main reason they get sloppy is the little nub at the bottom of the stick wears down, or the bowl itself will wear.

[worldly quartz]

How much should you grease the mechanism?

[worldly quartz]

Full kit is bowl, stick and gears iirc

Then you have to supply the lubricant

[zinc dew]

I mean, that’s one way to hit on someone

[topaz otter]

I greased mine with a tub of nickel grease from the 70s

It comes in a blue tub and it looks like grey goo

[stoic parcel]

I have come here to~~ laugh at you ~~ thank Robert/@wanton sun for his hard work on the N64 core. This is an N64 cake, not a melted clay abomination.

[chrome lodge]

not realistic cake, no k-west

[stoic parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/noted-note-the-office-gif-6207136

[chrome lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/adam-cole-mjf-gif-13830352050733439628

[iron dove]

Looks like an upside down cartoon koala eating Mario 64

[plush summit]

fondant nasty as hell

[chrome lodge]

more like FUNdant

[stoic parcel]

The bros have rolled in.

They are hating.

[plush summit]

Buttercream gang in full effect

[chrome lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/frosting-cake-decoration-baking-bake-goods-cake-gif-14207332

[wanton sun]

yes, the core already fulfills the test for it, which checks if the command does ... nothing 🙂

[vapid hawk]

good afternoon team

[zinc dew]

what’s the next major milestone for you?

want to make sure we celebrate with you when you hit it 🙂

[stoic parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/droopy-gif-9758451

I am reluctantly enthusiastic.

[wanton sun]

complete vector load instruction(9/11 done), then vector store instruction(about 12), vector unit instructions(calculations done for all 8 vector units, about 30 exist), vector single instruction(calculations done for only 1 vector unit, e.g. square root, about 10 exist). At this point all RSp systemtests will pass. Then first games could boot up in theory, but likely there will be bugs preventing it or we cannot see anything because the RDP part is still missing

don't expect that point before end of august. I'm currently able to do 2-3 instructions per day and there are about 50 left.

[cold pollen]

Timville is sitting on 4dapter designs when he has time they should go up for sale

[stoic parcel]

Nobody liked the cake, but everyone appreciates the work. All is well.

[cold pollen]

Also reflex adapter

[topaz otter]

Is this the counterpart to that paper machet pikachu

@wanton sun ive been inspired by your work to try and learn kicad, making some circuit boards

[wanton sun]

that's great! having something to learn and a goal you want to reach will give you a very good time 🙂

[topaz otter]

Biggest hurdle is learning the difference between a schematic and a pcb layout

And the thousands of part footprints👀

[trim seal]

As an EE who designs pcbs among other things I can confirm, footprints are the worst. Especially as everyone has an idea of what pad size should be for each part, and even manufacturers get their own footprints for some packages wrong. And then you get halfway through a pcb layout, have to change a footprint for a part you've used a lot of, and then you have to adjust so many parts and tracks, especially if it's a dense design.
Anyway, good luck :p

[native mesa]

Just for my own hypothetical understanding but does offering the ability to overclock a 'CPU' take up more space on the FPGA? Or is it simply some clock speed configuration that gets altered?

[lament escarp]

The bowl, gears and stick. I think the problem is with the spring, not enough tension on it.

[inner bronze]

From my understanding, you can introduce mechanisms or changes that allow you to shorten the critical path so you're able to clock modules higher. So it can take up more space, but not necessarily if you already have margins and don't need to make changes.

Could be as simple as making a rarely used expensive instruction take more cycles if its in the critical path.

[native mesa]

The prospect of more performant Goldeneye sounds good

I know you can get quite a performance boost by disabling the janky AA

[inner bronze]

I think Goldeneye uses the TLB which from what I picked up is a big contributor to latency

[worn delta]

I suspect that the games were all made to to work within the set ram of 4MB or 8MB, but are there any that could in theory benefit from more ram being available? Have any emulators implemented say 16mb ram as an option and has that let to any performance boosts?

I am guess probably not, seeing as you don't get an across the board improvement from having the 8mb expansion pak, but thought it worth asking

Sidebar question, are there any ROM hacks for games that didn't utilise the expansion pak to make use of it for a better experience?

[cerulean elk]

The game would need to address the extra ram for some benefit. You can double Dreamcast ram in a mod but no retail games will ever even know it exists as it will never target those memory addresses

But I bet there are some rom hacks out there that do it

[worn delta]

That's what I suspected. Which is a bit of a shame, as probably fairly straightforward forward to have a higher ram option on MiSTer core. But if nothing would utilise it then no point

[topaz otter]

Thanks i've done simple stuff with a magic marker and burn the traces with acid but this looks so much cleaner and easier

[modest helm]

It's one of those things where I think we're better off having rom hacks of games to utilitze the expansion pack that don't since so few games actually use it

[worn delta]

Yeah, makes sense. Also keeps games in speck with actual hardware

Are there any ROM hacks that do this already?

[modest helm]

I think some Super Mario 64 rom hacks use it. I believe Super Mario Star Road uses it

Mario Kart 64 and GoldenEye would be great use cases to improve framerates

[worn delta]

Maybe now Goldeneye and OOT are decompiled we could see QOL hacks utilising it

[modest helm]

GoldenEye isn't yet. Perfect Dark is though

[worn delta]

Ah, I thought Goldeneye was

[modest helm]

Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Perfect Dark and Paper Mario are the completed decomp projects afaik

Banjo-Kazooie's been at 98% for what seems like forever

[worn delta]

Hopefully Majora's Mask and Goldeneye are done at some point

[modest helm]

They'll be among the next batch of games including Mario Kart 64

[worn delta]

Are there any popular hacks missing from the htgdb Everdrive pack? I didn't see the OOT A Missing Link one, which is fantastic and hopefully gets added. It is a short game linking OOT and MM that plays really well. I was blown away by it, it almost feels like a new official Zelda game

[modest helm]

I didn't see Smash Remix

[worn delta]

Maybe worth us getting a list together and seeing if we can get them added

Also quite interested to see if I can find a list of games that were changed/censored from Japanese to western releases and if there are hacks adding in what was removed

I know OOT had the fire temple music changed as it was using an islamic call to prayer tune, and Mystical Ninja changed some assets as they were problematic outside of Japan

[topaz otter]

Remember that fpga is just a bunch of little programmable switches that pretend to be real chips

On a real board youd change out a resistor or a clock crystal to change the cpu speed

On fpga i guess its all about optimization and reducing the path of instructions

[modest helm]

I believe that was changed for the GameCube release and the N64 version is still in tact

[vapid hawk]

maybe later prints of OOT had it altered on n64 too

[topaz otter]

Issue on a real cpu with doubling clock speed is heat

[modest helm]

In fact, I don't think there's a lot of censorship on N64 games. Can't think of any unlike the censorship on the NES and SNES

[vapid hawk]

it was music and some textures iirc

[topaz otter]

https://tenor.com/view/cooking-cpu-hot-meat-yummy-gif-25343056

[modest helm]

I remember DK64's rap in later revisions changed it from 'hell of a guy' to 'heck of a guy' during Chunky's verse lol

My friend also owned the game and I was shocked when I heard his game say 'heck' haha

[vapid hawk]

portal64 isn't exactly a romhack but its a must see

not in htgdb afaik

there's also the MM and OOT randomizers, which don't only do randomization you can just use them to make a version with awesome QOL improvements

[zenith orchid]

So excited about the progress on the RSP. Every update on the RDP should be quite visible afterwards. It'll be like a fireworks show 😄👍

[worn delta]

I will have to double check this, was sure it was only in the first release in Japan and subsequent revisions in Japan changed it and all overseas versions had different music

[deft tree]

I need to check back in on portal, when I threw it on my everdrive it went to level 14

[oblique remnant]

Speaking about romhacks, I'm amazed with those FPS improovements like here in Diddy Kong Racing. It looks really smooth and seems to be on original hardware not emulated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRm1z1sL71w

or SM64
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5_J-RoZQck

[languid ore]

FPS hacks for N64 games seem to be the best kind of hacks. Even something like Majora's Mask at a solid 30 would be amazing. Or having the laggy audio/glitches fixed

[oblique remnant]

also a nice Benchmark that is running... guess that's directly implemented in the hacked version not something you can use with every rom

[wanton sun]

it depends on the core and the clock speed. E.g. in Lynx and wonderswan that costs nothing, as the CPU is clocked so low that you can just run it at 2x,3x or 4x clock without any big effort. In PSX2X i needed to modify the CPU slightly, but rather throw away stuff to improve the critical path. For N64 i see no chance to overclock the cpu further.

if you want to do any non-full multiple, e.g. 1.33x, it can be a lot of effort due to clocks not being synchronous to each other anymore

[lament escarp]

How hard is it to transfer a core to another fpga? For example when there is a next gen mister or to the analogue pocket etc. Given of course there are enough logic elements on the new fpga.

[topaz otter]

@trim seal what programs do you use when designing pcbs

And what do you think of kicad for beginners

[languid dune]

The problem I'm seeing with that unfortunately is the hack isn't running even remotely consistent, and since N64 hardware doesn't support VRR, it would be a stuttering mess. Whereas the unmodified version runs at a pretty consistent 30fps, which would be preferable in my opinion.

[wanton sun]

depends. The wonderswan/lynx is easy as there is not much technology specific, as there was no requirement to optimize things so much. So it's mostly framework stuff if that is different, like it is for e.g. the Pocket. For PSX/N64 or such cores it is more work. Not much more difficult, but work to replace FPGA architecture specific elements to the new architecture as they have been required to fulfill the edge case needs

one example: i ported the GBA core from the Mister to a Artix 7 board in less than 1 week, but that was without any framework stuff

[lament escarp]

Just wondering how future proof the whole mister project is when the de10 nano goes out of production

[viral portal]

From what I understand, since it's all pretty open sourced, it should be able to be recompiled without too much extra effort depending on the makeup of the next popular board. Not that it'd be easy, but the most troubling stuff will already be done.

[modest helm]

Are there serious discussions about a MiSTer sccessor at this point or just rumblings?

[viral portal]

Just rumblings. It's been a topic since Pandemic + terasic kind of shunning the idea from what I understand.

[wanton sun]

should be well possible if the new hardware is more capable. Still more work than with software emulators

[viral portal]

But we're also getting to a point where advancements in the technology of things getting reverse-engineered are getting very close to filling the de10 and a physical limitation will hold back cores for later arcade boards and such.

[lament escarp]

But I still think it's great the cores are not completley bound to one fpga. Like, in 50 years people will be able to play hardware emulated snes games and stuff.

[viral portal]

Hell, we're already at a point where PSX (and likely N64) doesn't have full comparable accuracy due to necessary shortcuts that had to be made.

Yeah, absolutely. MiSTer is the hotness that garnered the social awareness and support, but it's not the only option thanks to the cooperation of everyone leaving things open sourced

[modest helm]

Indeed. Another thing many don't consider is additional options that can be supported on existing cores on new hardware such as 4P mode on the GBA 2P core, 480p upscaling on the PSX core, 32X/Sega CD game support etc.

[viral portal]

Maybe even two IO ports so you can have SNAC-accuracy controllers while also having accurate connections between two devices for link cable simulation

Could you imagine if someone did that for the PSX core on a device that it could be implemented on for the two games that utilized it?

[lament escarp]

So technically, as long as large enough fpgas are in production so are retroconsoles. Which makes me happy.

[viral portal]

Yeah, with a large enough FPGA and a dedicated fan who wanted to do it, we could eventually have stuff like PS3 and such. Incredibly unlikely in the next 40 years imo, but you never know!

[lament escarp]

If we got to cover all the pre hd consoles I'd already be happy. But I guess gc and xbox will be extremely complex

[viral portal]

Technically those are semi-HD consoles

[lament escarp]

Yeah and the ps5 is 8k, says so on the box

[viral portal]

Those are the consoles I'd spend the money on a scaler for since I don't believe we'll see FPGA implementation for them for a good long while. Like the PixelFX GEM for PS2 that was just put up for preorder. Or the Stellar XboxHD+ kit for XBox.

Hell, I got an N64Digital and PS1Digital because I fell into the hype that they wouldn't fit on the de10, haha.

But given that those that know a lot more than me had the belief that it would likely not fit on the de10, and how the de10 comes (came?) at a subsidized price so that was an affordable endeavor... I don't think we'll see a successor to MiSTer any time soon if that criteria is part of the creed. FPGAs are not cheap!

[modest helm]

I just love having everything on one platform with a modern controller on an HDTV. That's why I love MiSTer even though I have an Everdrive 64

[vapid hawk]

they've been steadily improving it if you watch the changelog, though i'm not sure if nightly builds are available anyway

they added baked lighting and stuff apparently

[lament escarp]

Im using the retrotink5x for those, are the new ones better?

[viral portal]

For sure! But for what's not available like that, I like the idea of modernizing the consoles for the original experience (or only experience in a lot of cases)

[viral portal]

Better? That's a matter of opinion, really. Mike does some amazing work with his upscalers and I'd fail to see the difference between the two, personally. The internal mods take the digital picture and pumps it out digitally via HDMI for HDTVs so there's no analog conversion happening - while also leaving the analog option available simultaneously. But it's also per-console, and can get pricey compared to an upscaler like the RetroTink where you can just plug in practically anything and it does its job as a single device for multiple consoles.

Mike's got the upper hand imo once the RT4K releases. So far the internal mods don't support higher than 1440p scaling, and I know there are many who are interested in native 4K scaling.

"native 4K scaling" sounds weird out loud.

[lament escarp]

I'm really satisfied with my tink. I'm not really convinced on the tink4k. Last concept I saw it had a bunch of vga inputs which you were supposed to use adapters for component, scart ect. with. But I'll take a look when its finished

The backports of the firmware to the 5x are awesome though, jailbarring my gamecube had is completely gone since incorporating the framebuffer of the 4k in cer 2.98

[viral portal]

Wow, nice

[hearty python]

N64 Core can perhaps speed up with some caches for the cpu and gpu. Perhaps both chips can run with 100 MHz? Next gen mister is difficult for me to say, cause the newer gen consoles will be easier for software emulation. Most have a pc gpu and after ps3 and Xbox 360, all x86 cpu. So it makes no sense to do this all in FPGA, even it is possible one day…

[viral portal]

I got the GC Duo for my Gamecube, and I had to buy a little universal remote just to access its settings. Once I did, though, I was able to get progressive scan mode to work on my PVM. It was a default setting on the device itself that caused issues for my model

[viral portal]

I agree. GameCube and Wii are already fairly perfectly software emulated. PS3 is making huge waves recently with RCPS3, too. I'm not familiar with the Xbox software emulation scene but they're all pretty much a standard x86 PC architecture so FPGA implementation is a lot less lucrative where accuracy is involved.

My comment was more leaning on the idea that with the right gusto, anything can have FPGA implementation.

[topaz otter]

The de10 is way past what it was intended to do

Its an educational/development board

[viral portal]

Who knows where we'll be in 40 years. x86 and x64 could be completely archaic and something way different is used by then, to the point all of the things we enjoy now are unlaunchable on those modern PCs

[topaz otter]

Its gonna be arm

[vapid hawk]

they ditched that vga ports idea

its got scart/vga/component/svideo/composite now

and most importantly hdmi in

[viral portal]

Do we know if it will work as a downscaler? That's one topic I'm unclear on for the RT4K

[hearty python]

Hard to say, but I think that in future many things run as saas… Not with me 😂

[vapid hawk]

can't remember if downscaling is in or not

[topaz otter]

yeah windows is singlehandedly the thing that keeps x86\x64 alive and also the millstone around its neck

I played with windows 95 again the other day and I've come to realize that windows has remained fundamentally unchanged for thirty years

aside from microsoft trying to make it worse

but they have no presence on arm, or linux

[lament escarp]

Nice, guess I'll have to give mike a few more dollars than^^

[hearty python]

Yeah, cause there’s no real competition anymore. Linux is nice, but nothing for end users.

[viral portal]

They've got a small endeavor of Windows running on ARM. Apps have to be compiled for ARM in order to work, but it's something that apparently started in 2017

[vapid hawk]

didn't they stop supporting that? it was for one of the surface models they don't make anymore

[viral portal]

It's possible!

[viral portal]

According to a quick search, there are only Windows on Qualcomm ARM chips due to some deal that's set to expire any time now, but nothing on Windows ditching the ARM endeavor

[hearty python]

Windows for arm is risky. Believe that ms will not do much with it. Office for Mac is also over now. We will se. Perhaps there will be a better bridge, that arm can real x86 too.

[topaz otter]

That was windows rt, it flopped

[viral portal]

That was the Windows 10 version, right? I think they just have an ARM-based Windows 11 build called Windows 11.

[topaz otter]

It died when users found out that regular windows x86 apps wouldnt run on it

[viral portal]

Ah, just like Windows Phones when people realized they couldn't get the same apps as Apple/Android

[topaz otter]

And devs wouldnt port their apps to it and put them on the windows store

[viral portal]

They've made a lot of headway to make android/linux development easy to do on Windows 11. I couldn't say how that's been received, just that they've got the stuff packed in. Google Play even has a beta Windows 11 store where some of their apps play natively in Windows 11.

Well, I say "natively" but it's all playing in within an emulated shell for the platform

Amazon's Android app store also has a beta storefront for Windows 11, but who uses that?

But none of it will play as accurately as Robert's N64 core here on MiSTer! (Phew, forgot what chat I was in for a while there)

[languid ore]

Some of the newer x86/x64 stuff is up there with ARM at efficiency. I think ARM will run side-by-side x86/64 but we'll probably be onto something much different than either of those by the time they die out. x86/x64 isn't set to be going anywhere anytime soon. Like where do we go after silicon? We will eventually hit the limit and be using completely different materials and then eventually things like quantum computing. Luckily we are getting good at translation layers. That will be paramount to move onto newer types of computing.

People like to compare Apple chips to existing, say, AMD or Intel chips but fail to mention that Apple is usually a couple of fabrication steps ahead of either AMD or Intel. If AMD/Intel was on the same process node I don't think you'd see the same efficiency deltas.

[hearty python]

Not Apple, the partner from Apple, like TSMC.

[uncut gyro]

process node != design efficiency

Apple doesn't need to worry about Oracle 9i or Crysis benchmarking well, so they can constrain their focus and efficiency to 1/100th the legacy software, which frees up focusing on making new workloads (eg computer vision, ML, pathtracing, etc) as perf/watt efficient as possible. I think the biggest leap is the integrated memory in the stacked design and the net effects that has on inter-module latency across the whole SoC.

deeply integrating exotic memory directly on-die will be neat to see on the x64 and ARM side. having HBM3e directly on-die won't be cheap for a 2in1, but it would fundamentally change the typical bottlenecks in that class of devices

[hearty python]

I don’t know so much, but how is the ram connected, via pcie?

[uncut gyro]

in PCs, it is over a standard bus with a standard connector. even when memory is soldered onto the motherboard and irreplacable, it complies with bus protocol and pinout standards. Apple Silicon doesn't do that, which is the leap forward. it does more greatly constrain what memory chips they can source to maintain consistency (they aren't fabbing those themselves -- yet), but since they only manufacture a given model for ~14 months, they can typically secure the entire supply they need to satisfy first 4 months of shipments.

[hearty python]

PCs have changed a lot the last years. More and more funktions, that was in north and south bridge chips, is now in the CPU directly. So such connectors a wired direct to the cpu. All that is done with pcie. But lanes are limited. The limited lanes is the problem in my opinion. Make no sense to produce the same chip with different amount on internal ram. An update is so not possible.

[uncut gyro]

ok. definitely way off topic for this channel at this point 😉

[hearty python]

See cheap ssds. Bought on prime day a 2tb nvme ssd from Samsung for only 90€. No slot, no cheap upgrade

Agreed

[trim seal]

I use Altium, Kicad has gotten quite good I believe, and I think the libraries are good. If I hadn't used Altium for so many years, I'd consider Kicad instead.

[lament escarp]

First test of the 8bitdo controller, wuhu

[lament escarp]

Incase people are interested: pairs well with the mister via bluetooth and the r2 button on the rumble pack can be used as menu button.

[sullen harbor]

I sincerely hope they do a standalone controller and not just a mod where I have to gut one of my oems. But then again 8Bitdo has weird habits when it comes to announcing controllers

Like I sincerely doubt they will announce anything unless Analogue announces an N64 thing (very possible imo)

[lament escarp]

I'm actually hoping for a dualshock 1/2 kit, to resurrect my old ones.

[sullen harbor]

I don't hate the retrofighters dualshock replacements

not the best

but they get the job done

[lament escarp]

Im using those, only thing I'm not a fan of are the analog triggers. Way to sensitive.

[sullen harbor]

yeah that seems to be an issue with basically everything they do.
Some element is way too sensitive

or doesnt have full range

look at how many revisions it took for them to get the brawler64 right

The one I'm waiting for, however is their xbox controller

[sullen harbor]

basically imo, the NSO edition fixes most of my problems with the controller

I have never used N64 version

but NSO solves a lot of my issues re emulation control and set up

[lament escarp]

I'm contemplating getting nso+ so I can use the controller on all those games or if I wait for roberts core and play them in a way better way

[sullen harbor]

What I want is a new controller with a three prong

design vs the the more dreamcasty layout modern controllers go for

(I'm left handed, for some reason, FPSs on the system work best for me in that layout)

yeah like, not just a PC controller with shell from an old mold or anything

Like imagine if 8bitdo went an made a straight up new controller for N64 with the old layout

I'm currently using the thrustmaster eswapx pro

The thumbsticks are tall and it gives me a feel of range similar to the original n64 stick

Lol, I wish there was a six face button dual analog controller. That would literally solve all my problems lol

[hearty python]

I give this a try 😁

[sullen harbor]

see I need the analog sticks lol
I do plan on getting one of thos though

[inner bronze]

I wouldnt 🤔

I would however pay for a SNES Controller with the M30 dpad, or an M30 with SNES buttons

[wanton sun]

All vector load instructions are implemented now 🙂

ressource usage for loads(1.5% of the whole FPGA) is slightly higher than i hoped

[twin barn]

Noice!

[quaint rune]

Great stuff

[languid dune]

Hype levels...increasing!

[wanton sun]

well, still 125 open points for the RSP, so not finished anytime soon

[hearty python]

Yes, but that doesn’t mean 125 missing functions, I guess.

[hearty python]

You have saved resources at the fpu. 😁

[cold pollen]

They already did years ago

[sullen harbor]

oh yeah the retrobit collab

[wanton sun]

no, only 52 😅

thankfully FPU was smaller yes. Otherwise things would get hairy already

(i still hope for >10% left after RDP so savestate support can fit in)

[vapid hawk]

does quartus try harder to pack stuff in as the fpga gets more full?

i remember being surprised how like, you could keep adding stuff into PSX even when it was already so massive

or was that all you doing optimizations

[hearty python]

1% per missing function?

1,5% per function is 78% alone, that seems to much

11 vector functions was 1,5%, iirc.

[wanton sun]

currently the FPGA logic is 49% filled. anything above 90% is very hard to fit, so better stay below that. CPU will require about 5% more and other stuff(flash, controller pak, SNAC, ...) another 5%. That leaves 30% open for the restof RSP, RDP and savestates...not much

i assume the RSP to take up further 10-15% for the rest of the instructions

Currently it fills up 1000ALM(2.5%) for the non-vector part, 1000 ALM for the vector handling and first instructions and 600 ALM for the loading instructions. 10% more would be additional 4000ALM. Could be enough or not, hard to tell

(original plan was 6000 for FPU, RSP and RDP each, FPU ended below 3000, so there is some room left)

[hearty python]

Think you are on a good way. Is it easy to say 60% of n64 is done yet ?

Or is my thinking to simply?

[wanton sun]

no, less. CPU is maybe 75% complete(datacache and TLB missing) and FPU should be fully complete, but RSP is at 30% or so and RDP at 10%. Otherparts are either there (rom access, audio) or missing completly(flash, sram, controllerpak, ...)

[worn delta]

Oh, do you think anything else might progress further now in a fresh build?

[wanton sun]

very unlikely. The RSP can load stuff now, but not calculate with it and not store it back in 99% of the cases

[vagrant ivy]

I heard that Quest 6 4 works fime now you should test it

[wanton sun]

but: you can always see if the RSp is the issue: if you get an overlay with the 8th bit set(e.g. E100), you know that the game triggered some unknown/unimplemented RSP instruction

if you don't get that, the RSP is very likely not the reason for it hanging

[hearty python]

I wait for rsp finish and look than again

[wanton sun]

would be best. once RSP is done and the RSP->RDP dma is in, rendering could start. Will add error flags for unimplemented RDp drawing stuff then, so it's more clear where stuff hangs

[hearty python]

Do you think clockrates are reachable or is it unknown yet ?

[wanton sun]

unless they drop a lot when the FPGA gets fuller, it should be no issue for anything non-tlb. With TLB is still completly unclear

current builds have slacks between 0.5 and 1.5ns. Even with rare 2.5ns off(e.g. using signaltap) it was still all working as far as i have seen it. AO486 at 90mhz is 5-6ns off and still works

[hearty python]

Yes AO486 works well.

[wanton sun]

when doing a release, multiple builds can be run, so only very good ones are used. E.g. the Patreon builds i made are all around 0.5ns so they should work for everyone

[hearty python]

Seems fine. Hope you will not get in trouble with the TLB thing. As it seems long time impossible, it went smooth

[lament escarp]

Just as an aside, would it be possible to add an option to tweak analog stick sensitivity? Since the n64 stick was so weird and all

[wanton sun]

even if the original TLB design (all 32 entries compared in a single cycle) is not possible, there are still workarounds. E.g. the N64 cpu has a 2 entry TLB cache for the instruction cache, so not all 32entries have to be compared. Something similar is possible for the data cache. It would not be 100% original timings, but i bet no one would notice as it doesn't seem like games would use many regions anyway

[wanton sun]

depends a lot on how this is going to be implemented. PSX also has some static analog stick mapping, but that would be bad for N64, as e.g. the NSO pad has original ranges. So it would require some optional curve only

[hearty python]

We will see, since psx core runs fine, I think we can play n64 games on Mister at all. If I understand it correctly, the hard part for TLB is the one cycle?

[lament escarp]

TLB is the stuff that lets you pull marios face in mario 64 right?

[hearty python]

Seems like a more working like a MMU, but the stuff is to high for my brain 😂

[lament escarp]

All these acronyms

[wanton sun]

it's just a translation of memory address areas to different areas. So you have a list of up to 32 blocks and if a memory read/write access goes to one of these blocks, it rather goes to a different address. Doing all 32 compares in a single cycle is the only issue there. A single compare is easy and costs not much, but 32 of them in parallel is a very large logic

furthermore the TLB could host either 64bit addresses or32bit addresses, but it seems no game is using the 64bit address mode(because it's useless unless you have gigabytes of ram/rom), but the linux port does use it. But for games i likely take the shortcut and save those 32x32bit

[hearty python]

64 and higher bits was more a marketing thing in theses days. Customer thought higher is better and faster 😂

[native mesa]

I'm in a few different communities and MMU to me means Multi Material Unit

[gritty river]

My weird custom PS1 build was 12ns and only had a few graphical glitches in the scaler

Very excitedly following along

[hearty python]

MMU stands for memory management unit

[devout leaf]

Just look at Jaguar. Tossing in to 32 bit chips and saying it was a 64 bit system.

[gritty river]

Well it did have 64-bit memory addressing

[hearty python]

2x 32Bit Chip is 64 Bit 😂 So do the jaguar marketing the math

Or turbo graphx 16 with it 8 bit CPU

Named extra with 16 in US and EU

[zenith orchid]

so the patched Mario64 without the face screen should work? That alone would make the core worth it 👌

[wanton sun]

i don't see why not currently

but before getting too excited, let's wait for the RSP logic size and the first textured triangles. At that point, it's clear what will fit and what not

but it would be a pity if all games using TLB would not work, so i will do my best

[topaz otter]

Even if you were only able to get select titles to work it would still be a monumental achievement

remember the I-que player is an official product and it still only plays a few hand picked titles

I don't think anybody here is going to fault you if you cut the fat from the N64 library and focus on quality instead of quantity

[zenith orchid]

I bet there are demos for flat and textures triangles

[hearty python]

Think 007 is a good stress test game 😁

[brisk drum]

Perfect dark would be better

[hearty python]

😁

[gaunt star]

BFD

[zinc dew]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LOn5JBn15Zg

[wheat depot]

What's everyones plan for a getting a low latency N64 controller connected to the MisterFPGA? SNAC? some new Daemonbite? Ebay clone controller? official N64 switch controller?

[hearty oar]

If it’s low latency you’re after then the last option is out, if Nintendo’s other NSO offerings are anything to go by

I think raphnet’s adaptor might be the best of what’s currently available at least, or maybe the 8bitdo conversion kit if you want wireless

[wheat depot]

Ok cool, I had no idea raphnet had an adaptor. Thats gotta be the best

[cold pollen]

@dawn fossil will hopefully have his daemonbite out eventually

[solid crest]

I have this to use it in x-input usb mode. No one has tested its latency so I am hoping it is good enough.

https://retrofighters.com/our-collection/brawler64-bluetooth-wireless-nintendo-switch-switch-online-pc-video-game-controller/

[dawn fossil]

I have everything… I just need to build and list them

https://github.com/timville85/4dapter

[zinc dew]

I am lazy so NSO controller for me lol

[viral portal]

Waiting for SNAC, yep.

[hearty oar]

depends where you live, they are readily available here in Australia at least, you can grab one right now from the Nintendo store

[zinc dew]

Oh yeah 100%, I got an NSO controller just for MiSTer

[hearty oar]

Hey You Pikachu microphone 😆

[zinc dew]

Densha de Go!!

[hearty python]

GC had wavebird, was there something similar for n64 ?

[zinc dew]

at the time, no. Currently, yes.

[hearty python]

Okay 👌

[hearty oar]

after all this I'm still going to be using a GC controller with the core anyway, being the terrible person that I am

[zinc dew]

being terrible would be judging you, play with what you want!

I use the N64 controller with the Saturn core

[hearty oar]

that certainly is a choice

[zinc dew]

I’m kidding I don’t lol, but it’s got all the buttons, it would work

[hearty python]

Saturn crashed, playing alien triologie 😂

[manic basin]

Did it hard crash? Like you can't get the OSD to come up? That happened to me twice after leaving the map.

[cold pollen]

honestly probably the same for me lol

[languid dune]

The Wavebird was like magic back in the day. There had been attempts at wireless controllers before it, but it was the first one that felt like it really worked.

[worldly quartz]

Meanwhile I just use a Smash Gamecube adapter->GC to Wiimote->Raphnet Wiimote to N64->N64 controller + manual remapping lol

Maybe I'll just buy the 8bitdo kit in the end lol. Hope it works well with the blueretro n64

[worldly quartz]

tbh, it's a pain getting to the home screen. I have to press like crazy on all buttons until it somehow gets pressed

[topaz otter]

easy solution

any of those controllers that use the rubber push pads with the carbon contact on the bottom, just take the rubber things out and rub a graphite pencil on the black carbon contacts

graphite is conductive

this is how I fix old keyboards, the carbon wears down and loses its conductivity

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/056935ea-f106-4d86-97e8-4892f0bff71d.7b785899316adeb8ad9795802db8f2db.jpeg?odnHeight=612&odnWidth=612&odnBg=FFFFFF

I take a graphite pencil and rub it on the contacts until they get shiny, it restores the conductivity of the pad

[cerulean elk]

Plus the GameCube has got to be the most comfortable controller in the hand ever made

IMO

[deft tree]

barf

one of my least favorite of all time

i only tolerate it for smash games

lol

[elfin depot]

It's alright

[topaz otter]

the c stick really hurts the gamecube controller

its not the c buttons from the n64 and its not really an analog stick either

in half the games it doesn't even do anything, in RE4 it just moves flicks the camera left and right

[hearty oar]

Probably conditioned from years of smash in my younger days, but the GC controller is definitely one of my all time favourites

[cerulean elk]

I probably shouldn’t tell you I carve them out for arcade mode then lol

[topaz otter]

one of the greatest devices ever created is this nubytech thing I have that lets you use the ps2 controller on the gamecube

[hearty oar]

Yeah that’s definitely not for me, I find pre-DS4 Sony controllers to be the absolute worst in terms of cramping up my hands

Those little handles dig right into me in the worst possible way

[elfin depot]

Nah, to each his own I say! I just wanted a set of each for each 'cube that I had at the time.

[cerulean elk]

They work great for racing games. Analog triggers and stick. For when I don’t want to drag my racing setup out

[worldly quartz]

I mean, they're better than n64 controllers at least lol

wish the dpad was better though

[hearty oar]

yeah the dpad is probably the only blight against it, and for modern games I guess not having that extra "Z" shoulder button or a select button can sometimes be suboptimal

[orchid nimbus]

Quest32*2 working yet?

[worldly quartz]

Yeah, remember how Capcom was like, let's put EO (easy operation) as a feature since the dpad sucks

N64 didn't have many fighters now that I think about it

like 2 rpgs and like less than 5 fighters iirc

[deft tree]

theres more like a dozen or so

[hearty python]

Yes, no keyboard and controller, so no ocd. Crash happened just after the end of the level.

[manic basin]

Yeah, that's the same thing that happened to me. I was able to get into terminal from ssh, though. Very odd.

[hearty python]

Have to watch of it, cause the same happens for me in Amiga core watching a demo. Never had this there before. Happen since I add the bt 8bitdo Sega Pad.

[cold pollen]

I used to be tied to Gamecube controller for smash, because the Pro controller etc. didn't feel right, but then I realized that the mappings were wrong. Instead of mapping the button letters 1:1 you need to rotate them clockwise

[modest helm]

I feel I’m the only one that thinks the GameCube controller is the most overrated controller ever. Admittedly the ergonomics and triggers are God tier, but literally everything else sucks. Those face buttons are stupid and I can’t ever remember what the weird bean shaped X and Y buttons are. The C-stick is like an interactive nipple lol. Worst d-pad ever. Only one bumper that’s very tight and feels like it’s been doused in honey. No L3 and R3 buttons. No select button. Short as hell cable

I think people love it because it’s the only modern controller Nintendo’s made that’s quality until the Switch Pro Controller

Sure it’s better than the N64 controller but so is every other controller ever

[modest helm]

It’s also funny that the Virtual Boy controller is essentially a GameCube controller prototype

[cold pollen]

The Wii U controller was good

But yeah the GC controller is lacking for systems other than GC (or playing smash)

Their reasoning was that the A button is the button you use most so your finger should rest on it, saving yourself travel time

[modest helm]

Haha it's so weird that a controller has a face button that takes up 50% of the area. I actually don't mind it at all. It's the X and Y buttons that I always mix up and don't feel natural to press

[languid ore]

GC is by far the most comfortable. That said, it's far from the best. Just feels the best in the hands. Like a glove. C stick sucks, the button layout isn't the best. The z button is dumb. I do love the shoulder buttons for what they are though, that extra click is awesome. I have pretty small hands though. Controllers like the DS5, which I think is way better than the GCN controller, aren't near as comfortable. Too fat.

[modest helm]

Exactly. My problem is people mixing up ergonomics with best controller. I personally think the best controller is DualSense, but I prefer symetrical analog sticks while some prefer an Xbox Series controller because the sticks are asymmetrical. Everyone's got preferences

[neon heron]

The duke was the first time I felt seen by a video game company…that one felt perfect (except for the stupid white and black buttons)

[modest helm]

Ha me too. I have huge hands and the Duke fits perfectly. I loved the Duke, but agree the black and white buttons sucked. The d-pad sucked too but can't remember one game that used it so it didn't really matter

[neon heron]

Even the dual shock controllers gives me the old monkey paw … ps5 finally has a somewhat comfortable controller

There were some 2d fighting game ports

[languid ore]

Makes sense. I could never feel like I was actually holding the duke. I was fully extending my hands just to kind of cradle it. Controllers these days feel like a much better middle ground though. Xbox series and dualsense both feel a little big while not being too big to handle like the Duke.

I bet y'all like the OG 3 button genesis more than the later 6 button too. Thing is a beast

[zinc dew]

This is a wonderful place to chat about N64, and we’re all super excited for the core! Just a reminder that @wanton sun is an insanely talented programmer who’s doing this out of the goodness of his heart (and it’s a fun challenge).

You can find detailed info about his work on his Patreon so please consider visiting: https://www.patreon.com/FPGAzumSpass

[wanton sun]

small update...

cannot finish that part today, hopefully tomorrow

working on the RSP is like handling a raw egg as most stuff is 8 or even 16 times in there. One wrong move and the ressource usage explodes

[stone pilot]

I wish Verilator had some way, even a lousy way, of estimating timing success or resource usage

[wanton sun]

i asked ChatGPT to guess the ressource usage of the N64 components. It was wild 😅

but usually i just run the synthesis(no fitter) on a bare module as top level. That typically completes in under 1 minute

[hearty python]

Nice progress 💪

[lament escarp]

No, 7% to go till it's nice

[languid dune]

At this stage, it's just noice.

[vagrant ivy]

2 % more for a Quest

[quaint rune]

The hype has not even went down a smidgen since the announcement, SENDING YOU MOAR OF MY POWER BROSKI

https://tenor.com/view/goku-spiritbomb-gif-9246512

[hearty python]

You have to ask Siri 😁

[solemn maple]

Stick felt fine but this is what it looked like inside.

Not going to replace any parts on this one, just clean and add some grease

[vapid hawk]

yeah that doesnt look too bad

[whole zinc]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225538121147

These come in stock frequently

[lament escarp]

I can't get the rumble on the n64 modkit to work on pc. No matter if I use dinput, switch mode or a xinput wrapper

[zenith orchid]

are you using ChatGPT4 or ChatGPT3.5?

[topaz otter]

https://tenor.com/view/2869993-hail-gif-12594371

Sending robert my energy

[wanton sun]

whatever is free on the chat.open.ai page. It says "ChatGPT July 20 Version". I don't really use it much, so i never looked in detail

[hollow pebble]

I think 4.0 is paid only, so probably 3.5. 🙂

[wanton sun]

in terms of coding it solved two problems for me: 128bit calculations for the low level FPU in C++. It was able to print very nice and clean code for 128bit integer variables with standard operations (+, -, shift, logical) without using any external library

and it also printed out some code for converting integer to bitlevel floating point. It had some mistakes and didn't handle any edge case correct, but at least gave a good starting point

[zenith orchid]

AI Chat saves so much time sometimes

[jolly canyon]

wild times, AI is changing the world

[maiden wyvern]

i like to use it for coming up with little easy functions i can't be bothered working out

but it makes mistakes all the time. i would never recommend to someone who doesn't know what they're doing

[wanton sun]

Vector Stores, ADD and SUB instructions are now implemented

the big jump in the numbers come from adding all the NOP instructions, which are easy to pass 🙂

[cobalt junco]

so awesome, well done!

[daring meteor]

You're getting closer by the day haha, very nice

[hearty python]

72% is huge jump.

[lament escarp]

10% in 13 hours. So it'll be finished in 39 hours, right? 😋

[hearty python]

Impossible is done immediately, but miracles take a little longer 😂

[wanton sun]

well, there are 64 instructions codes. 24 have no function. The test checks that they really do nothing. That's why the number shot up. Without that it would be 65% or so. There are about 30 instructions left

[teal citrus]

@wanton sun I know it's a bit late for an answer from you, but during your breaks, do you sometimes get epiphanies on how to solve problems during coding and testing sessions?

[wanton sun]

why too late? it's not even 2pm here 🙂

[teal citrus]

The time zones are weird, that even I don't know what time it is over there.

Sorry.

[pure ocean]

But why does a chip have instructions without a function? Was it not completed or does the number 64 come from the addressing, which are simply unused?

[wanton sun]

No worries 🙂 sometimes it happens and i have some idea in the middle of the night or so, but at least half of those ideas turns out to be complete nonsense when i'm back at looking at the code 😅

[wanton sun]

no, the decoding is just done on 6 bit = 64 possiblities, but not all are needed, so the ones that are not needed at least do something defined. That's not always the case. For some CPUs they just do random garbage and even worse, some developers depend on that garbage

in RSP vector, most unused opcodes act as add, but without storing the result. So that's great. No chance of games depending on obscure behavior

[pure ocean]

Now I understand! Then it's probably similar to the undocumented illegal opcodes on the C64, which are still used in the demo scene.

[wanton sun]

i think in c64 they are really kind of random as the original decoder doesn't implement, while for RSP they are decoded to prevent that

[marble cargo]

The Nintendo 64 having all these functions that don't do anything makes me question why they bothered to implement it in the first place.

[pure ocean]

They were not implemented, they are simply unused and the 6bit addressing gives 64 possibilities, as Robert just said 🙂

[wanton sun]

maybe i explained that wrong. It's not some additional function, but rather a safety to prevent faulty actions

there are however some vector instruction for movie decoding that are unused by official games

but only 4 out of 40

[marble cargo]

Oh so it's moreso insurance in the scenario of edge cases causing wonky results.

[wanton sun]

yes

[pure ocean]

This is like your mister's PIN bar where you put the SDRAM on it and not all the pins are used. (OK, with SDRAM they are used), but then the unused ones could also have something done to them that was not intended.

[hearty python]

So that seems halftime for the instructions

[quick arch]

Some RSP tests like Gradient start showing things !

[wanton sun]

nice find, i didn't try anything from Krom yet that actually uses the RSP to calculate stuff

[cerulean elk]

you just descibed like 90% of all arcade boards. Unpopulated areas, headers that never got used, functionalities left behind and never utilized, differences in hardware on the same GAME, from the same manufacturer, a few months apart making boards not interchangeable (GAL location changes, etc)

[quick arch]

and Gradient doesn't trig E100 so maybe it is working fully others trig E1xx

[wanton sun]

everything triggering E100 will likely not work, it uses a non implemented opcode that is simply ignored then

[cerulean elk]

https://youtu.be/dXNuZbzQ45o

more bang up work @wanton sun !

[zinc dew]

hardware, much like software, often gets designed for scenarios that may be possible rather than the final result.

[cerulean elk]

yes and the console engineers were way better about it than the arcade side where they'd break the SAME game by reissuing boards with fundamental hardware changes so that the same ROM chips arent replaceable and you better hope the revised rom is dumped to run on the board set with one chip swapped

[modern sleet]

old footage of waverace? Robert fixed those color issues weeks ago ;P

[cerulean elk]

I cut back and forth across diff examples

thats a load example

well...maybe I should rephrase that lolol

[marble cargo]

With arcade boards, I always figured they did that as a form of future proofing. They're expensive to produce, so it was important to get the most mileage out of the hardware.

[cerulean elk]

Yes. But sometimes all they do on the same platform is move a chip from one place to another. Same chip, same code, same functionality...breaks other games. I am fighting with that now with a new Taito board. Same board as 5 other games...but each board has slight GAL placement changes that cause weird texture issues with each other. Some odd behaivior

[native mesa]

@cerulean elk I don't get why people trash on you on Reddit. I like your videos I know it's gotta be a ton of work to put one out every week

[cold pollen]

Supposedly you can take its output and feed it back to ChatGPT and ask it to spot errors 😊

I've never tried it though

[zenith orchid]

Haha the only gripe I have with his videos is that he calls the Saturn core betas/alphas/releases, when they are none of the above. other than that, I don't really have an issue that I can think of.

its pretty minor anyway

[hearty python]

But there are a lot of games for that 😁

[zenith orchid]

What are they saying on reddit though?

[cerulean elk]

Meh it’s Reddit. Don’t care 😂

It’s “cool” to be grumpy there

[broken viper]

I love your vids

[cerulean elk]

Appreciate it. Love making em

@manic basin has been helping lately so he gets a mention too!

[broken viper]

Didn't you just start a steamdeck series as well?

[cerulean elk]

I did. Not surprisingly that’s become the most viewed stuff I’m doing lately

[native mesa]

I think mostly the frequency of videos but honestly there's only like 2 other people doing FPGA news

[broken viper]

What do you think about doing a backwards compatibility series? Things like the phat ps3 doing ps1/2/p games, the wii u doing wii/gc games, and ect. Imo it is pretty interesting you can do gc on the wii u but not the switch.

[cerulean elk]

Maybe one day. Honestly @broken viper I run out of spots to put vids

Doing a lot of deep dives on arcade pcb’s for fall. Some very rare boards

But eventually I’ll run out of shit to teach people on steam deck

[zenith orchid]

@native mesa true, though Lu's videos seem like they are less frequent than before.

[broken viper]

I was never into arcades growing up because they were super dangerous to hang out around in my area and the MiSTer has really shown me a lot of cool arcade games

[cerulean elk]

Shooting some boards as I chat in here

I need to do a N64 tear down maybe today too

[fallen sparrow]

Nice

[fallen sparrow]

What area was this?

Some arcades where I lived, were a bit dodgy too

I still went lol

[cerulean elk]

That’s because everyone knows you are hard AF

Pixel Cherry bad ass

[broken viper]

N64 is definitely an interesting series of hardware choices to examine. Especially if you compare it against other consoles of the generation. Cds vs carts, removeable psu, graphics expansion, ect

[fallen sparrow]

Haha, lol, I wish that were true, I could finally stand up to my wife 😅

[cerulean elk]

I said badass, not fool. You keep letting your wife win! Smart move

Disgusting board

Not roach goo though. Lacks that specific “roach shit” stink some boards come in with

[broken viper]

Rochester NY in the city. It is all the crime of NYC but without anything worth seeing

[fallen sparrow]

In one arcade we used to go to, there was this robbery scam that used to take place. I nearly got done, but my friend's older brother was there, so he stopped me and a friend from getting robbed.

So, this is what used to happen.

We were around 14ish years old. When playing an arcade game, a kid of around 7-9 years of age would come and try and push you off the machine.
When you moved the kid off a 6 foot built guy would then come over and start accusing you of hitting his little brother, and that's how they'd begin robbing your money from you. Most people out of fear of getting beats, would have over money and valuables.

I guess me and my friend were fortunate, as one of my friends I grew up with, his older brother was present and was a known nut case, jumped into our rescue.

The game we were playing was the Avengers

Also for reference, my friend who's older brother helped, were a rough Irish family, that no one messed with in the area. They were known to fight anyone for anything that pissed them off.
When young, it was definitely good to have them around

My friend went mad, with drink and drug abuse, I don't know how is older brother is

lol, I don't know the last time I typed so much

[broken viper]

Luckily my dad's side of the family were all criminals so none of the gangs except the Puerto Ricans would mess with me (they aren't afraid of the Italians). But in the 20 years since they've all mostly od'd or been arrested.

[fallen sparrow]

Messed up stuff lol

But nowadays, it's all cyber bullying

🤣

[cerulean elk]

You are nobody till the threat emails start coming 🤣

[fallen sparrow]

I'm still waiting for my first 😞

@cerulean elk great N64 video, I watched the whole thing with some Ramen and Chilli Squid.
Btw, that soundtrack definitely sounded like Prodigy

[languid dune]

Oh god. That's nightmare fuel to me!

[cerulean elk]

It’s the worst. But every pcb collector has a roach story

I had to reverse engineer a hyper Neo Geo driving harness off a cable bundle that was dripping in it. Outdoors. With gloves and a mask on

[languid dune]

https://tenor.com/view/jim-carrey-throw-up-puke-vomit-gagging-gif-16080834

[cerulean elk]

Still smells after multiple IPA baths. It’s sealed in a zip lok bag that was then vacuum sealed in another bag. I don’t use it but I keep it around in case I need to rework something

This thankfully is just a garbage amount of flux

[native mesa]

Maybe it was in a flood?

[languid dune]

Keep that thing in the deepest darkest reaches of the closet dungeon!

[cerulean elk]

No. No water damage. Just a bad clean up job from a rework

Or well NO clean up job that is

I cant use the board anyway. 60 pin connector for driving controls, no known manual scans for wiring diagrams. So I cant control it lol

gonna have to grab a scope and start reversing the pinout. Power and ground are easy. Everything else is a big ?

Works though

Some texture issues but that’s because it has improper GAL placement as it must have started life as a Landing Gear pcb, which has a slightly diff design

[zinc dew]

@cerulean elk you ever thought of hanging up a PCB like a painting?

is that a dumb idea? I’d think it would look cool

[cerulean elk]

Yes. I am going to shadow box my Atari Panther prototype dev kit card

[zinc dew]

Oh please post photos! That sounds awesome.

[cerulean elk]

I’ve got some stuff on display but I try not to go too wild

Project and shooting day. Was getting measurements of a lightgun shotgun for someone to do a Gun4IR recreation shell but in a shotgun and not a pistol design

[sullen harbor]

Where do you even get gun4ir

[cerulean elk]

You mostly make it yourself

But that’s an OG Konami Evil Night shotgun, not Gun4IR

[sullen harbor]

Ah I meant is there a kit I can buy?

[cerulean elk]

I’m not 100% sure

[thorn flax]

I think I know where you can get it from

[thorn flax]

US based?

[cerulean elk]

https://rpegelectronics.com/products/gun4ir-diy-mod-kit

No clue if this is a reputable vendor. Just a google search

You’d def save money if you just took the BOM and bought from vendors if the shipping didn’t beat you up

[sullen harbor]

I'm canadian so that would probably be best

[thorn flax]

here you go king

https://rpegelectronics.com/collections/arcade-stuff

I was down a youtube rabbit hole yesterday

[sullen harbor]

Oh cool. Thanks

[thorn flax]

I decided to buy two fully featured gun4ir for myself yesterday.

fortunately paid for with my console repair work side hustle

[cerulean elk]

reminds me I need to fix a 3DO M2 for someone. Well...keep poking at it that is

not so much broken as very security lock out angry and its perplexing me

owner sent it to a repair place that lost the CD-R inside. That image when looked at in hex has the game/region/version data hidden in it. That data set is matches to an EEPROM and an RTC chip as a checksum but you need to reverse the data as the checksum is basically reversed. Issue is all the known versions of Evil Night I have...I can't find a match. EEPROM is blank. But burning a new EEPROM with a custom written file and an RTC chip with matching data AND altering the ISO hex...so everything DOES match...still spits back no match

next step is probing the eeprom traces to see if somthing is damaged and it cant read in the first place

owner doesn't want to spring for a donor sub board either

[lilac scroll]

I guess if it doesn’t bother Robert it shouldn’t bother me but does anyone else find it super annoying and opportunistic that all the YT channels that compile core news every few days are using stills and footage that have nothing to do with the current core progress in order to get clicks with thumbnails or have better visuals? I already have a good sense of core status from following Robert on Twitter but every time I click on one of those videos I think “oh wow, so X is running now?” then I realize they’re just randomly tossing that shit in. Irksome.

[cerulean elk]

Lol if you are referring to me the banjo thumb is a reference to music as they are both playing instruments in the thumb and I call that out via a speech bubble. I also chat with Robert about these videos from time to time. So I think k maybe it just bothers you? Not being mean…just saying…I don’t think anyone is trying to fool anyone into thinking they are playing every N64 game ever made currently

[lilac scroll]

I would be totally happy as a viewer if you just play an audio file over nothing, at that point I’m a minute into your video.

[cerulean elk]

“Show, don’t tell” is ineffective in a thumbnail when it’s all about audio

[lilac scroll]

i don’t actually know which one you are but I try to click on pixel cherry, video esoteric and Lu’s from time to time because clearly folks are putting work into these videos for something that changes quickly

[cerulean elk]

I am Video Game Esoterica

[lilac scroll]

But I do think there’s an element of clickbait in some cases and I don’t know that it’s needed 🤷🏻‍♂️

If it doesn’t bother Robert then I won’t let it bother me. having followed emulation for a very long time and knowing how many amazing programmers have been pushed out over the years because a rabid minority of jerks held unrealistic expectations,

[cerulean elk]

Everyone gets their own opinion. But a blank screen with audio =‘s a painful experience IMO. I even put an animated gif of Mario doing basically nothing as to not show a blank screen. Who wants black? Not me

[lilac scroll]

It’s just something that I think of

[cerulean elk]

I mean this in the nicest way possible but I think you might be overthinking it. MiSTer community is filled with like minded, patient and generally happy people who love updates and seeing core progress. Nobody is beating anyone’s door down to complete something they want today and most content elaborates on the fact that “it may be next month, next year…or never. So be patient and expect nothing”

[lilac scroll]

It’s not this community I’m worried about but perhaps no one else is watching these frequently released vids

[cerulean elk]

But I agree the SOFTWARE emulation enthusiasts…may sometimes get angry and aggressive in my experience

[lilac scroll]

When it got to the beetle footage and you said “now something like this isn’t going to run any time soon” I rolled my eyes and closed the video

It just had nothing to do with the news imo. Anyways, I have watched many of your videos, thanks for your efforts. Just constructive feedback on something that stood out to me

[cerulean elk]

No worries. You provided your opinion without telling or threatening. Better than most I get 🤣

[languid ore]

Well, seems you have no choice but to film you turning on the mister, loading the core, selecting Snowboard Kids, watching it fail to load, then fade to black. Anything else is just just a lie for clicks and I'll feel duped and used

[cerulean elk]

The silicon scans weren’t real either. I just took a microscope photo of a piece of pepperoni and passed it off as technology

[languid ore]

Gotta change your name to Awpepperoni now.

[cerulean elk]

They’d get mad at me. I tried to be VGEsoterica here and I think I made @brisk drum upset lol

[languid ore]

You be who you want to be. Let people be mad!

[mild grail]

There are two rules for putting content on the internet: 1. It's impossible for everyone to be happy, and 2. For those who aren't happy... They'll let you know.

[cerulean elk]

😂

[thorn flax]

https://tenor.com/view/thespoonyone-spoony-betrayal-gif-22534052

everytime I click on a vge video and it doesn't actually contain a download link to the secretly complete hyperneogeo64 core

and don't even get me started on this false advertising

how do you even live with yourself

[remote hatch]

If I don't like something then I don't watch it, don't follow it, etc., but I don't understand the attacks and insulting others.

[woeful grove]

I only like videos that share information that I otherwise couldn't obtain by simply opening a core and loading a file.

Like comparisons should actually have some real reference values, and quantifications

"sounds good to me, but you be the judge" is a worthless waste of everyone's time

[sharp ermine]

Basically what i Hoped john linneman/dfretro would do, but then his one mister video he made turned into a tutorial for a cheap lcd based diy standup arcade

[cerulean elk]

It works. You just haven’t figured out the proper alignment yet

I worked with Robert on it. I sent him precise measurements. Sacred geometry. He followed it and he got it to boot

[viral wadi]

New (to me) controller

[cerulean elk]

She’s a beaut Clark

[vapid moat]

What did I miss ya'll?

[cerulean elk]

Mostly shenanigans and tomfoolery

[vapid moat]

I heard there was some major development though or smth

[cerulean elk]

Some more sound in some demos / some more graphics. Some fun stuff but no new playable games

[languid dune]

The best game on the core so far is the game of trying to boot every game you can think of in the hopes of a diamond in the rough logo or title screen.

[wanton sun]

I don't think most people are watching youtube videos for information, as that could be shared via text and static images much faster and more exact. It's mostly to have something more slow, enjoyable that feels like someone did collect all that for you and present it in a nice way. This is even more the case for the people in here, as they know most information available before even clicking on any video. Could it be with less clickbait? Sure, but that's not how youtube works. And reaching so many people like VGE with that type of content is not an easy task and proves people enjoy it. But i can only say all that because i'm here in a community of very friendly people. In the last years, i have not really received any negative comments about my work or that something isn't finished or working yet. To conclude this wall of text: i enjoyed watching the video from VGE. Why? Given how much the core can currently do, it really shows everything that is possible at the current stage. Most of the time it's capture from the core, which is not easy for a 10 minute video at the current time, so it's totally fine for me to fill some spots with other footage.

[solemn maple]

I completed "007: The world is not enough" yesterday and savestates would sure have been welcome on the second to last level. Denise Richard kept dying on me 😅

[lament escarp]

I tested the 8bitdo hallstick in simple 64 (as I have no real n64 at hand) in case anybody is interesed. Values are close to oem according to the test.

I get some cracking sound in that emulator but after what robert said how the n64 handles sound im really not suprised.

[manic basin]

For what it's worth, I truly love capturing the footage. Going through every game takes about 4.5 hours (it'll be more as they start getting further). It's a zen process and I love finding little differences as pieces are implemented. I think these videos are super fun and I'm glad he's doing them (and glad to be a small part of it).

All of the Maddens 'do more' but still don't do anything, you know? That was cool to see. Dr. Mario has some activity and you can almost make out words. I'm unemployed right now, so it's at least something to pass the day while waiting for businesses to not call me.

[wanton sun]

wow, that's really a lot of work. On the other hand, i would not find it. I usually don't test any games currently. I wouldn't have found namco museum at all.

[manic basin]

Yeah, it's something to occupy my time. I'm a software tester - or was until a PM decided 'we don't need them because the business partners don't leave if they have problems.' This is way more fun than doing script injection or writing automation.

[cobalt junco]

I'm a lurker on Discord and rarely type. Probably like most lurkers we usually skip the majority of the text in this channel and only pause when we see you have posted something.

It's always exciting when you post a small progress screenshot or when you are explaining the inner workings of what the console is either doing or how it's specifically working.

It's going to sound silly but you are somewhat of a recognised name in my household. It kind of flies over my wife's head but she does express it is impressive. My daughter (7 years old) is interested in video games so I've been explaining to her the work "Robert Peip" has been doing to make consoles such as the PSX work on the MiSTer FPGA. I've shown her your GitHub just for a bit of exposure so maybe later in life she can recall or connect the dots as to how it's all pieced together.

She does say "Daddy you are a genius" and I usually reply "No honey, I'm smart.. but Robert, he is a next-level genius".

It's something you don't really get to see but she has a lot of fun playing games such as Spiro and Crash Bandicoot on your PSX core. So thank you, I suspect there are people with stories similar to mine where your work has brought a lot of joy in our households.

My daughter says:
"The Nintendo 64 programs (she means your test programs) are very amazing". She wanted to ask how long did it take for you to write your programs?

[cobalt junco]

I just noticed you've been using https://github.com/lemmy-64/n64-systemtest so I'll explain it to her. She also wanted to say "You are very smart". She understands you are basically reconstructing an N64 console with code that can read N64 games.

[mild ether]

Sounds like Robert is turning into the Santa Claus of retro gaming.

[solemn maple]

Der Weihnachtsmann

Playable mario kart 64 would make for an excellent Christmas present

Competing for the best time on Frappe Snowland would be a fun game challange for that month 🚄

[lament escarp]

I really hope if mk64 runs so will questing 64 by happy accident. I never cared much for it but all this hype around it got me really excited to finally play such a classic.

[worldly quartz]

I just hope battery saving and mem card support are added early

Like on saturn, it was annoying to play games and lose progress

[wanton sun]

@cobalt junco very kind. I kind of struggle with other things in comparison, so i'm really not the one that can do a universal solution for everything. Knowing one niche is actually quite good in the globalized world today, especially for things that are not done by many others. But you live in your niche then. I try to break free from time to time, but in the end you always come back to the same habits i guess

more progress....multiply, div/sqrt and moviedecode instructions are still open. Ressource usage increased a lot today, RSP hits 5k ALM now 😦

i guess the 6k target is not reachable anymore. Div and sqrt will take around 500 or so (they are not vectorized), but all the other multiply with different clamping modes will cost probably 200ALM per unit, so in total i expect 7k or more

[lament escarp]

6k was the expectation right?

[wanton sun]

it was my rough guess and goal before i started, yes

[lament escarp]

Considering the fpu only used up 3k it's still all good I'd say. Predictions can't be right completley.

[inner bronze]

And theres maybe still optimizations possible? Loads and stores can probably share a lot of circuitry?

[wanton sun]

unfortunatly not, i already researched possibilites for that part

maybe something in details, but not more than some 100 ALM

so after RSp we have about 15k ALM left for RDP, CPU completion and all the smaller parts

the die shots suggests that the RDP is roughly the same size as the RSP

[inner bronze]

Fingers crossed

[hearty python]

Some times it is better to go further and look later again. If you count all alms, it seems you are in summary near your prediction. Fpu saved 3k alms if irc, so all is fine.

[wanton sun]

yes, i will not stop to optimize old stuff just for a number now. If the FPGA runs out of ressources, i can always go back. Still i want to design the critical RSP parts with ressources in mind, as changing the design later on is annoying and with things that are 8 times in, every extra effort pays of more

[lament escarp]

Still, rsp at 80% is awesome progress. I think it was at 62% before the weekend?

[wanton sun]

yes, it was 50% before load/store and then only got 12% for the difficult load/store stuff. Now the vector calculation stuff is relativly easy, mostly how to write it to generate few ressources is the task here. Last percents will be tough again for the div/sqrt logic, as it's a special implementation only to be found in the RSP (using lookup table + shifted inputs as index, so it only takes 1 clock cycle)

[thorn flax]

it used to be that software devs had to squeeze as much performance out of limited hardware as possible.

Now they can just program as lazily as the schedule allows and throw horsepower at it.

in a crazy way you've ended up back where devs used to be. a kind of lost art

[blissful plaza]

I took the day out yesterday for testing my N64 system, some of the popular emulators (ares, RMG, simple64) and the core (2023-07-28 version) with the PeterLemon's/Krom's tests.
https://github.com/PeterLemon/N64

The core is already impressive and passing some tests where the emulators fail (or passing them only partially) even right now.

Like the RSPTransposeMatrix, LL_LLD_SC_SCD and DMAAlignment-SP/PI tests.

So, take all the time you need, you're doing a very great work and the community is pleased on your efforts.
EDIT : Ares passes them on v133 Nightly with recompiler.

[lament escarp]

If been trying the 8bitdo controller in some software emulators like project 64, mupen64 and simple64. They all have crackling sound. I seem to remember @wanton sun mentioning the sound interrupting the cpu directly or something. This shouldn't be a problem in the mister, right?

[hearty python]

The cpu isn’t full ready yet. There is stuff missing

[wanton sun]

sound on n64 should be a non-issue also for sw emulation. If at all, software has to deal with sound buffers that can run dry or fill up. Or maybe the CPU is completly wrong speed, then samples might not be ready for the AI(audio interface) to play

no emulator i know implements the interrupting of the CPU for audio or video data fetching

(or memory access patterns in general, 7 components compete for the RDRAM and most emulator just let them access in parallel. Some might pause the CPU when large DMAs, e.g. ROM read work, but that's about it)

i include my own emulator in that list, i also don't implement it yet as it would be insane to handle that in software for no good reason

In FPGA of course we get that "for free", as same-time access to one memory from several components is impossible

[wanton sun]

interesting. I assumed Ares would fulfill those you mentioned. I know it fails some floating point and TLB edge cases, but others than that i haven't found any. But i only ran systemtest, not all Krom tests

[blissful plaza]

So, I will do some retests later tomorrow. Just to be sure that I've not missed or read incorrectly yesterday.
EDIT : I had some time to test it right now.

[marble cargo]

The inaccurate timings of the emulators doesn't surprise me. The hacks needed to make games run at full speeds causes side effects like the lack of lag that normally happens in a lot of games.

[wanton sun]

i'm only testing Ares with my own build that uses the interpreter(both cpu and rsp), while the official version i guess uses the recompiler. From the code it doesn't look like it could be switched at runtime and i never found an option for that

so maybe that explains differences

[blissful plaza]

That's what I'm seeing right now.
So, I'm adding an edit to my previous words.

Anyway, great work so far from you on such short time.
EDIT : Recompiler, not intepreter (I've mistyped and doing too much things at the same time).

[wanton sun]

so have you been able to switch to interpreter in the build you downloaded? if so, please tell me how, i must be blind

[lament escarp]

I have another question thats not directly related to the core: I only managed to get the rumble pack in the 8bitdo controller going with either better joy in switch mode as an xinput wrapper or in simple64 in switch mode. Does dinput not support rumble?

[blissful plaza]

Recompiler. Not interpreter, sorry.
I thought 'recompiler', read interpreter with your reply (and my wife told me something else) at the same time and type 'interpreter' erroneously.

[wanton sun]

ok, all good, no worries 🙂

so it seems they fixed some of these things recently, very good

[stoic parcel]

https://youtu.be/Gnzs0B9jmR4

[cerulean elk]

You spot a difference better than anybody I know

[cerulean elk]

I need to try Ares. People keep asking me about it

[blissful plaza]

RMG (Mupen-Plus + Parallel) is more compatible with games, but Ares is more accurate with system tests.

[cerulean elk]

People are V interested in N64 emulation. I get requests a lot for software emu videos on it. More so then any other emulator. Which surprises me

[sullen harbor]

I've honestly had more trouble with rmg and simple64 than ares

Slowdown is an issue on those where ares seems to run pretty much everything I throw at it smoothly

[weary palm]

The N64 is my favorite console. 🤫

[zinc dew]

It’s up there for me too

[sullen harbor]

I like it a lot but I think for me the console that resonated with me the most is dreamcast

To the point I wanted to build a mister in a dreamcast shell

[weary palm]

My #2 is the PS2 😉

Loved playing Time Splitters on that thing

[sullen harbor]

I think the consoles I gravitated towards the most was because their survival horror libraries

[cerulean elk]

PS2 somehow has become my least played console of that generation in the last few years