#NES/FC/FDS/Dendy

1 messages · Page 14 of 1

cursive sable
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Yeah, IIRC it was basically a slightly modified Pentium 3 and Geforce 3, which is ironically the same PC I had at the time.

vivid roost
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yeah the smaller fpga runs a mips softcore or something which runs the os

hasty river
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Mall Brawl is good stuff

fierce estuary
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I'd guess mostly that the more experienced devs aren't interested

jade zenith
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i would rather someone just make a mister handheld

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though i do think porting the framework/cores to a new architecture would be good, if it's a worthy upgrade

blissful prairie
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But who shall do it? And why do it if this doesn't lead to any improvement

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In my eyes we all would be better off without a MiSTer2

cursive sable
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There is nothing really stopping one from putting a de10 nano in a handheld form factor, its not much bigger than a pi, and not like you will need the analog board for that

cursive sable
blissful prairie
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Marginal improvement at the cost of development resources?

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It's not that we can have both. I don't see anybody porting all Jotego cores ATM

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Except Jotego himself of course

jade zenith
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it would be a big help for 5th gen console cores and some newer arcade cores as well

blissful prairie
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I guess he would. But for the price of not developing new cores

blissful prairie
cursive sable
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Having 5th gen be accurate would be a very big plus for a lot of people

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Also potential for things like a 32XCD core, or more accurate 32X or CD cores

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The current SegaCD core is rather lacking

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Yet it uses most of the FPGA

blissful prairie
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MiSTer 2 has the risk to convert development resources to porting resources. Not real improvement

cursive sable
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Saturn is using up pretty much the entire FPGA and realies on a hack that could make things unstable to make it run at full speed on single Ram, N64 isn't even 100% Hardware complete but can't do anymore on the current fpga, even the GENESIS core is using up tje entire FPGA, we've gone beyond the limits of the de10

blissful prairie
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And still Saturn is improving more quickly than let's say Galaxian

cursive sable
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Interest, same reason theres no gamecom core

blissful prairie
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And Galaxian is certainly more lacking than any Saturn game

cursive sable
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But intetest cant get you past a hardware limitation

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You seem to be tossing aside all the improvements that a MiTer 2 could bring for the argument of "What if it takes long to port the cores"

blissful prairie
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I guess that MiSTer is more limited by human resources than by hardware ones

cursive sable
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.... despite the De-25 being quite similar to the de-10

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It's getting quite limited by the hardware resorces too

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Whether it can even do CPS3 is still up there

blissful prairie
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Better HW does not mean better cores

cursive sable
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Lacking hardware means you can't get the core to run at all though

blissful prairie
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It's not magic that just happens

cursive sable
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Obviously? Not sure why are you evne arguing that, of course it also needs a talented developer, but a talented developer can only do so much if the hardware is holding themn back

blissful prairie
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It's a tradeoff

cursive sable
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? Of course you can, it's not a tradeoff. You raalize that porting, especially to similar artiteftures, is much easier than developing from scratch right?

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How many thigns has doom been ported to at this point?

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Porting the N64 core to a mister2 would be less work than creating a gamecom core

blissful prairie
cursive sable
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You're going to quite an extreme there, just because we can't have PS4 does not mean we should not want more accurate cores for gen 5 and earlier

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FPGA ps4 would be pointless anyway, that thign is basically a pc

blissful prairie
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Human resources are the limit. I am just saying that. And we have a wonderful platform that so so many people agree on. We risk to split resources and lose that common ground for just a little gain

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People will try sell new stuff to you. Just resist

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Appreciate what you have

cursive sable
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..... by that logic we would all still be on the Atari 2600

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Things improve, that's just how it goes, you can't stay on the same thing forever

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Your Mister1 isn't going to get thanos snapped just because a mister2 arrived

blissful prairie
cursive sable
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Few people here though would say that the NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, PSX, Saturn, Neo-Geo, etc should nto have been developed and we should have just made 2600 games forever

tulip basin
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he didn’t say no one loves the atari lol

blissful prairie
tulip basin
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his argument is technology marches forward. improvements are made. times change etc. stronger fpgas leading to more cores in the future etc

cursive sable
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Not all, some will port, some will focus on mister 1, and the ones that DO port, there isn't really much left to develop on the de-10 FOR those cores

tulip basin
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perfectly natural progression

cursive sable
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Mister1 isn't going to drop all support to jump to only developing on mister2

blissful prairie
cursive sable
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... what does that even mean?

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The MiSTer exists because it's an improved version of the MiST

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It's basically a MiST 2

tulip basin
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i agree with you akuma. a new mister platform will come along. what exists will get ported. new things will be developed. projects will still be made on mister 1 and then ported to mister 2

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mister 2 projects won’t come to mister 1

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i don’t know what the other person is on about

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but they’re welcome to their opinion

cursive sable
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Yeah, if someone does make a gamecom or virtualboy core for example during the mister2, I would imagine the core would be on both, but something like a 100% cycle accurate n64 core will likely be 2 only

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(Not sure how you would handle the touchscreen of a gamecom though)

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The current N64 core relies on pre-patching several N64 games to get them to work, including big ones like Conker, it's just done autoamtically when you load the game now, but it harkens to the earlier HLE days of emulation which we are trying to move past, and there are romhacks that run on real hardware but break horribly on mister. Robert said there isn't much more he can do with the limits of the DE-10

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I remember when about 3-4 years ago everyone was saying gen5 would be impossible

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We've pushed the DE-10 more than past it's limits at this point

blissful prairie
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The limit is reverse engineering newer chips than 1993

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I don't see the people doing that

cursive sable
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That's litearlly what gen5 is

blissful prairie
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Yes. N64 will not become as perfect as Neo Geo. Or Genesis, NES

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Because it will not be fully REd

cursive sable
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IIRC Robert has made a fully accurate core, it just can't fit on the DE-10

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Also the Genesis core uses the entire FPGA, we can't add CD or 32X to it, those cores are using the older less accurate one that had many issues

blissful prairie
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Accuracy is a relative term

blissful prairie
cursive sable
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A large chunk of accuracy can be quantified, a.k.a. AccuracyCoin

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which is what sparked a large revival in this channel

blissful prairie
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The PSX?

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The GBA?

cursive sable
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I just said, the n64

blissful prairie
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The new GBA accuracy?

blissful prairie
cursive sable
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That's just buzzwords at this point

blissful prairie
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What are the buzzwords?

cursive sable
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"accuracy is realative" "random tests that test random behavior" these aren't actually saying anything or meaning anything, they are just replies

blissful prairie
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Well, let's agree to just disagree. I liked that you kept the discussion civil 😉

cursive sable
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I am well past being an angsty teen arguing on the intenret like I was 20 years ago XD

clever scarab
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not me!

blissful prairie
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And sorry Kitrinx for spamming your channel so hard

cursive sable
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There is nothing to be gained form just insulting each other

cursive sable
clever scarab
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lol I am trying to get better, promise

cursive sable
dry lynx
fierce estuary
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some of them the speed is limited

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etc

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there's definitely hardware limits being hit by some cores

cursive sable
fierce estuary
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are they super important ones? not really

dry lynx
cursive sable
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There are still games which do get patched though right?

dry lynx
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A very small number and no “big”ones except for JFG

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afaik

cursive sable
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Maybe the list I saw was outdated, I recall there was a few big ones on there

dry lynx
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But comparing the N64 core to HLE is lol

cursive sable
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Also I think it's still patching Knife Edge?

dry lynx
dry lynx
cursive sable
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I meant those patches, not the core in general

fierce estuary
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even in the case of stuff like NES, I wouldn't be so bitchy about adding junky mappers if the hardware had a little more breathing room

cursive sable
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Knife Edge is so weird, as is the desync in DK64, so picky, nothing gets it right

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Is the NES core taking up that much room now?

dry lynx
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Saving us from ourselves

cursive sable
fierce estuary
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nothing is stopping you from playing atari 8000-games-in-1 garbage on a software emu for the 45 seconds you play it before forgetting it forever

cursive sable
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So no Former Dawn on the De-10? 😉

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Heh, my old 128-in-1 was a large chunk of my NES years, but it contained nothing special

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Unless you count nonsense like Mario's sprite replacing the ship's sprite in a SHMUP as special

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... Huh. Just for the hell of it I tried to see if I can find that old 128-in-1 I had, and I didn't find the right one but, never seen an emulator do THIS before

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Weird

clever scarab
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Did it have BattleCity

cursive sable
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Yes, also I was wrong, it was 168-in-1, not 128

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I remember that weird contra start screen and the menu music now

river mesa
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I was able to beat the entire game without changing a thing. Guess the crash was just a fluke? Or maybe the game itself has a rare crash and I just happened to encounter it?

IMG_0808.jpg IMG_0810.jpg
late flower
granite pivot
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Makes me want to play more of Power Blade NES.

half pasture
rapid saddle
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These NES tests are useful. However, it really needs to test all the mappers also.

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Which means you have to rewrite the code to run IN the mapper.

grand jewel
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I had to help someone privately earlier who was complaining about bugs with the French translations of several games (Bio Miracle Upa & Cowboy Kid).

It turned out the patches were poorly implemented, and the ROMs were old with iNES 1.0 headers.

I just corrected & retested them quickly, and everything works perfectly now.

So, in the future, if you have to provide support, remember that translation patches can also be problematic when you're trying to help a user who's stuck.

clever scarab
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I may make that line more pronounced. It’s important to assume with mature cores that if you’re playing a patched game that has a bug, it is more than likely an issue with the patch itself and you must cross check with an unpatched game that’s been acquired from a trusted rom pack.

fallen brook
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I think the repo readme should also be updated with instructions on header checks. it mentions nothing about it but the core strictly relies on it, unlike emulators

cursive sable
cursive sable
heavy dust
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Where do people post romhacks now? I have one for Wizardry 1 (Famicom) I need to share.

cursive sable
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There are sevearl sites now, and some people even have their own sites to self-host

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Personally not a fan of the ones where the dev makes a site that tells you to provide a rom and the site would patch it for you, would rather download the patch and apply it myself

heavy dust
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I just want to put the hack somewhere other people can find it. All I did was get help on nesdev discord converting it from the NES version to the famicom version.

cursive sable
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Well, the three big ones people tend to use to upload their patches are RHDN, RHDC, and RomhackPlaza

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This is just a patch and not the full rom right?

rapid saddle
cursive sable
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That assumes that the everdrive has a perfect implementation. The AccuracyCoin tests will already fail on an everdrive if you load the test rom the normal way because of differences, and that's without a mapper in the way

supple ermine
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Hasn't rhdn been dead for a while?

heavy dust
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I keep hearing and seeing mixed signals on that.

rapid saddle
cursive sable
supple ermine
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You get a random one occasionally but it's drastically down from when everyone used it

granite pivot
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It's getting new hack pages, but the files are hosted from other sites.

tepid umbra
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Yeah that's one of the reasons I stopped updating there since I don't want to make another random account somewhere else just so I can link it there.

fierce estuary
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they dont need huge batteries of tests because most mappers only do a few things

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only a handful of mappers have so much nuance they really need a lot of testing, like mmc5 and fds

fierce estuary
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mister is also more strict. we follow hardware more closely than many (almost all) emulators, which means things like ram write protection and stuff is enforced

fallen brook
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i'm not saying that's a bad thing - not at all. just a simple instruction in the readme would be nice imo

heavy dust
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MiSTer's strictness has been a boon for making people finally clean up their romsets.

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And making people look up what all the terms around roms actually mean.

tepid umbra
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Yeah I really appreciate kits rejection of idiocy. It's much appreciated.

heavy dust
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As long as you don't take it personally.

fierce estuary
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it reminds me of that splatterworld game

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they said it only worked on FCEUX, it turns out it only worked on that emulator because they set the header wrong and that one was so inaccurate that it ran it anyway by not respecting it correctly

cursive sable
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Also not the first I heard of an emulator allowing a game to run simply beacause it's so broken it's bypassing stuff that trips up others

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Not entirely related but I remember early versions of CEMU allowing you to get a chest in Breath of the Wild that is actually impossible to get on real hardware because it's both buried and underwater, you can't use the tool to unbury it in water.... but early versions of CEMU did not render the water correctly yet so you could just walk there like it was land XD

main narwhal
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the emulator could throw an error about the header and point you to a correction tool

supple ermine
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You could have the emulator look it up in its internal database, then tell the user "header doesn't match autodetect, to use different header, run emulator with command line option --mapper 199". If you do that it will run it, but people will get tired of using the option every time so they will fix the header.

ember bone
timber lava
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https://fxtwitter.com/ninjadynamics/status/1991263670429499765?t=tII4PmLOHxMBqzGx0PzUjw&s=19

🥷 🇵🇹 Ninja Dynamics (@ninjadynamics)

In theory, a movie on the NES could look something like this. This sample is 256x144px, but ideally we would have 256x128px at 12fps.
︀︀
︀︀The problem is data storage. Without using aftermarket hardware, 90s mappers would support no more than a few seconds of video, maybe 30 at most.

**💬 2 ❤️ 16 👁️ 558 **

▶ Play video
FxTwitter ·
fierce estuary
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maybe we shouldnt fucking have video on NES

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"gosh we could play 12fps black and white videos cd's on NES if we just had more storage"

undone willow
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30 seconds of video is all I need.

frigid marten
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just put all the hardware in the cartridge

cursive sable
fallen brook
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lol, I have a troll rom that rick rolls you on SNES core. it just plays never gonna give you up, along with something that looks like the videoclip, with huge pixels. it's awesome

cursive sable
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Not as crazy for SNES, Rise of the Robots had several very short FMVs on it in the SNES verson

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I remember that game shocking me twice when I rented it on SNES

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First time it shocked me was said FMVs on a freaking SNES game

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.... second time it shocked me was how abhorrently terrible the game was XD

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Also I have seen that Rick Roll thing on NES too, but without the FMV

amber willow
fierce estuary
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the longer this video goes on the higher my eyebrows are going

amber willow
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yeah figured you'd break out in hives if you watched it 🙂

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his best video is about making a program to try to learn how to play nes games, it's pretty good if you haven't saw it

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he has another where he turns games 3d

cursive sable
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What even IS "Reverse emulating"?

amber willow
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I think it's just a joke about playing a snes game on a nes which shouldn't be possible due to the limitations of the nes

blissful prairie
cursive sable
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... then do a Skype call

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The SNES wasn't able to handle video and audio a the same time though so they also used two NESes exploited with Megaman 1 and Mario 3 for the two audio channels to stream audio through teh controller ports XD

granite pivot
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TASBOT rhymes with Shazbot

blissful prairie
amber willow
heavy dust
covert crypt
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Beat Contra legitimately. Don't let your dreams be dreams.

20251123_200828.jpg
fierce estuary
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I have never dreamed of contra, but that's quite an achievement

steep yew
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With three lives?

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Jaysus

covert crypt
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Had to use one continue in the last stage.

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But no Konami code.

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The game gives you extra lives as well so there's room for sloppiness

cursive sable
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I think I have gotten as far as BASE2 with 3 lives before at best, many times barly make it to waterfall

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I imagine though the Hangar and Snowfield would be the ones where I would lose the most lives if I could get there with 3

lost plume
tribal hinge
fallen brook
covert crypt
fallen brook
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gg. thats hard

covert crypt
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I think the big thing with Contra is knowing when to move and when to sit still. After playing through it a few times, I don't think it's all that bad!

clever scarab
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pins updated

fierce estuary
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im still working on my branch, but it's super hard on breaking down the timing into sub-cycle accuracy which is needed for alignment differences

steep yew
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Kind of wild to say "The NES is one of the most exciting cores on the MiSTer right now" but here we are. Welcome to 2025

fierce estuary
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NES has always been one of the most exciting cores on mister

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90% of the playtime is probably on like 5 cores

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nes, snes, genesis, ps1, and like, a handheld of some sort

steep yew
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Sorry, I meant development wise. NES is one of the reasons I bought a mister. But it's always just been there, you know? The idea that it's getting better, in the year of our lord 2025, is wild.

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like you just assumed there was no more work to do. But i guess, what I'm learning is, there is always more work to do

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it's more "is the work worth doing"

tepid umbra
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I bought my mister for nes and snes originally. Boy, did that spiral out of control.

steep yew
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now all you do is play visual novels. a real fall from grace story

jade zenith
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part of the reason i even bought a mister was because i didn't want to shell out for an RGB-modded famicom lol

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best decision ever

clever scarab
grizzled tusk
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Same here, was looking into RGB mod a NES, also wanted a Neo Geo AES and a Turbo Grafx, The DE10-nano got all this covered and many more.

jade zenith
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the neogeo core is already better than real AES or MVS hardware due to the lack of good flash cart options for the system

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you'd think with a library as prolific and expensive as the neo, there'd be flash carts out the wazoo for it, but really the only options are the terraonion neoSD and backbit platinum (and the former is basically a meme now)

fierce estuary
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well, to be fair, if you dont like fighting games or shooting games, it's not that huge a system, but it is a good one to have

clever scarab
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NEO GEO is amazing

urban meadow
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I love me some Neo Turf Masters.

clever scarab
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almost as good as Famicom

urban meadow
clever scarab
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I can't do that to the GOAT

jade zenith
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it's definitely true that the neo is a fighting gamer's dream, but there's still a lot to love even if you're not into that

fierce estuary
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metal slug is okay

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the genre's I love are rpgs, adventure games, and metroidvanias

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the genres I hate are sports games, fighting games, and shoot em ups

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platformers are either or

jade zenith
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yeah, if those are your least favorite genres, i can see why you might not be compelled to play it :p

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not really any RPGs on the neo outside of that samurai shodown game that was finally translated a while back

fierce estuary
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I never play puzzle games either

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they are insufferably boring

jade zenith
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i like puzzlers but the only ones i consistently return to are puyo and tetris

fierce estuary
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I know that's weird for a girl, but puzzle games just seem pointless to me

jade zenith
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eh i find that it doesn't really satisfy the same parts of the brain as, say, a platformer does

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so i get it

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do you like beat-'em-ups? i assume not since fighting games are a no-no

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all that said, there's still a decent chunk of neo geo games that don't fall into the above categories, though whether you'd enjoy them or not is up to personal preference

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-Blue's Journey
-Crossed Swords
-Cyber-Lip
-Eight Man
-Ganryu
-Magician Lord
-NAM-1975
-Neo Bomberman
-Ninja Commando
-Over Top
-Shock Troopers
-Top Hunter: Roddy & Cathy
are some examples of games that aren't sports games, fighters or shmups, but still a great time

fierce estuary
late flower
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puzzle bobble is a game my wife proudly beats me at (and brags..), but thats on neogeo

latent breach
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Spinmaster on Neo Geo is one I don’t hear a lot of people talk about that is pretty awesome

inland blade
fierce estuary
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this sounds suspiciously unlike NES discussion

steep yew
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Quick, before the cops get here. Kit, you should try map randos for super Metroid if you dig metroidvanias. It’s like playing a new version of the best Metroidvania every time https://maprando.com

don’t tell the cops I mentioned that here though. It’s an snes game 🤫

Super Metroid Map Rando

After planet Zebes exploded, Mother Brain put it back together again but arranged it differently this time.

urban meadow
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This is an NES thread! 🚨

cursive sable
jade zenith
hasty river
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So how about that Neo Geo

cursive sable
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Neo-Geo is great, but what about 3DO?

half pasture
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3D uh-oh

cursive sable
jade zenith
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does the 3DO have any great games

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not super familiar with it

covert crypt
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My understanding is most decent games were ported to the Saturn and PS1, the remaining exclusives are... Eh

jade zenith
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that's the impression i was under lol

covert crypt
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It's a little bit like the Dreamcast in a way

cursive sable
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Umm.... it's version of Gex is the original and only one that supports saving?

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Every other port used passwords... even the PC PORT for some reason

jade zenith
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did the saturn/ps1 version really not have save functionality lol

steep yew
cursive sable
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Nope, despite the PS1's obvious avability of memory cards and the Saturn having both memory cards AND internal storage, they used passwords

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Even the PC version used passwords.... the PC version that required Windows 95 so it's not like there was any chance you was booting that game on a system with no HDD

covert crypt
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Didn't the 3DO version have crappy scrolling though?

cursive sable
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(Apparnetly the save screen graphics still exist on the PS1 disk, likely saturn and PC too, but are unused)

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No idea

covert crypt
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I think the Game Sack video mentioned it. Shame they were still at 30fps at that time.

cursive sable
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What? You mean this NES game isn't running at 60FPS? https://youtu.be/9kIM8GOg2Ag?t=39

YouTube
NintendoComplete
Hard Drivin' (NES, Prototype) Playthrough - NintendoComplete

A playthrough of a prototype for the unreleased NES game Hard Drivin'. The game was to be published by Tengen, presumably in 1990.

In this video, I start off with a drive around the speed course. Then, at 4:20, I reset and take a couple of laps on the stunt course. Don't worry, I did wreck so that you can see the smashed windshield.

If you've...

▶ Play video
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XD

jade zenith
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peak gaming

cursive sable
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The funny thing is that unreleased NES prototype runs better than the released SNES version, even the game boy version runs better than the SNES version

fierce estuary
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okay no

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we're not talking about 3DO here

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I have standards

cursive sable
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That's a fair limit 🤣

steep yew
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32 bits? in 1993? How does it feel to be brand new and already outdated Jaguar

sullen fable
fierce estuary
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im sure it was adoorable

cursive sable
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So tiger electronics are fine, right?

steep yew
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I wouldn't use that particular word

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but I don't kinkshame

split mauve
cursive sable
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Using Tiger's electrohics would be more like BDSM anyway

sullen fable
cursive sable
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... that was also by Tiger

sullen fable
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Shoot! You're right.

dreamy marten
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I heard this was the new 3do channel

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Oh now I'm reading up and see that it is no longer the 3do channel.

clever scarab
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As a reminder, this new build dropped yesterday. Would be cool to get more eyes on it if anyone has time.

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I’ll have to look what games use Mapper 30 and MMC3.

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Ah, Mapper 30 is NES UNROM-512 - https://www.nesdev.org/wiki/UNROM_512

NESdev Wiki
UNROM 512

UNROM 512 is a discrete-logic board made by RetroUSB as an extension of UNROM with up to 512kB of PRG ROM, bankable CHR RAM, an option for mapper-controlled single-screen nametables, as well as a self-flashable configuration for rewriting PRG. Since its initial creation InfiniteNESLives has replicated its design and also added an optional four-s...

cursive sable
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Mapper 30 is the one for modern homebrew using flashrom right?

clever scarab
granite pivot
cursive sable
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Yeah, not saying it was a 60FPS game, but the SNES one is laughably bad

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Even genesis ran better

granite pivot
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yeah. It's amazing how much the hack improves it (SNES version).

fallen brook
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unless somebody finds a saving regression ofc but I didnt find anything on my end

hasty river
#

Remember this banger?

https://sora.chatgpt.com/p/s_6927be01ef6081919975af3ad5598a93?psh=HXVzZXItU2hVYU1ZUkRFeGxyd2NZRTFMd3dIb0Y3.yWU6CbX4CQ5F

Sora
dinierto on Sora

An old 80s tv commercial for a Nintendo NES game, "Duct Hunt". It features kids playing a nintendo on an old CRT in the 80s, and the video game has 8 bit graphics and sound/music. In the game the main character searches around for ducts in a building. The kids are really into it with them pointing out tips like, "look in the ceiling!"

A narr...

▶ Play video
main narwhal
#

the title changed every time it appeared on screen 🤣

#

but it is quite uncanny

cursive sable
hasty river
fierce estuary
#

the ducts are out there

hasty river
#

I can't believe people are down voting such a classic

clever scarab
hasty river
undone willow
#

Check the technique, those kids are hypertapping!

Screenshot_11.png
hasty river
#

yeah that was one of the few games that used the tate button configuration

mint lichen
#

Stop posting AI slop, it's just gross

cursive sable
#

What about normal slop?

cursive sable
#

Anyone else ever tried the mapperless tech demo on the NES core? I am having some weirdness where a scene with a twisting column and text has the text somtimes flicker, but it's not consistant

#

Feels like the current unstable does it more often than the stable but it seems random if it will happen or not

fierce estuary
#

you're going to have to be a bit more specific with what software you're talking about

#

most demos are mapperless

cursive sable
#

I mean the demo is literally called "mapperless"

fallen brook
cursive sable
#

Odd how I can't get it to happen consistently though, and apparently it's not supposed to happen according to a video of it running on real Hardware

fallen brook
#

its not sprite overload, extra sprites has no effect

#

hm, that youtube video does not have that glitch. the description says its recorded on a famicom

#

its this screen where I see parts of the letters of natt disappear

image.png
#

this is on mister

#

checked in mesen, those letters are sprites

timber lava
#

On my run it happens on name of person for GFX but name of CODE person is ok

fallen brook
#

interesting

#

there is something fishy happening with the sprites in this rom

#

still there is a very good chance that this is accurate, that video does not mention whether it is real hw or not

#

Famicom/NES NTSC + NROM it says

#

can't be both famicom + NES after all

cursive sable
#

It was inconsistent for me. I run the demo, sometimes the letters don't flicker at all, I reboot and try again, and it sometimes then flickers

fierce estuary
#

inconsistency points to ram state

#

because nothing else is random

#

this is interesting

#

im trying to think if that's a vram address/scroll thing or an oam evaluation thing

fallen brook
#

true, it is inconsistent here too

#

also extra sprites does not get rid of it

fierce estuary
#

this is probably oam corruption again

#

im gonna have to disable that til I figure out why it's being overzealous

fallen brook
#

i'll raise a github ticket for this

fallen brook
#

done. @cursive sable good catch it seems!

cursive sable
#

Thanks, I wasn't initially sure if this was an issue to open a ticket at first

fallen brook
#

yeah, I get that. no real hw around to test 😄

fallen brook
half pasture
#

Wait, someone has found a bug on the NES core???? elmorise

fallen brook
#

if I understand correctly, it's a famicom ppu bug

#

so now the bug is that the ppu is not showing the same bug or something

#

which means it's basically bugception 😄

timber lava
#

it is a demo bug 😅

fierce estuary
#

it's not exactly a bug

#

it's oam corruption, sort of a hardware bug in the NES. It's the same thing that was messing with that other demo and that zelda hack

#

it's happening a little more than it probably should right now

#

it only happens when something is turning rendering on and off at inappropriate times, which only happened in one retail game with any consistency, which was battletoads

tulip basin
#

and i always get it confused with cdi but if it has burn cycle and mega race (also available on pc) those are worth playing

jade zenith
#

the only unique aspect of the 3DO port was the arranged soundtrack, which was just lifted from the FM towns version. it's also selectable in hyper street fighter II via the PS2 anniversary collection

urban meadow
#

Yeah, 3DO Super Turbo was incredible at the time. It was our go–to version of the game for several years. My older brother even used to have some of his friends drop by just to play it, which was something he almost never did back then.

jade zenith
#

it was very impressive for both the time and the hardware. the send-away 6-button controller is actually relatively comfortable too, despite it's appearance

urban meadow
#

Yeah, I ordered one of the 6 button controllers. My friends had to suffer with the default 3DO pad. smugnep

dreamy marten
#

3do had a six button controller?

#

Besides the soldier pad?

covert crypt
#

The Game Sack episode showed a picture of the 6 button controller

#

Not sure what it was called. It looked weird though.

jade zenith
#

it's the soldier pad yeah

#

there are versions for the snes and genesis as well

dreamy marten
#

Yeah and much cheaper on those consoles

fierce estuary
#

can someone actually TRY that demo on a real NES

#

like a few times

#

it seems like it's turning off rendering mid-screen which actually should cause corruption under some alignments

hasty trout
#

Tried it on my unmodded Twin Famicom for over half an hour, resetting whenever I went past the text shown above.

This is the closest I could get it, one of the letters does have a sprite that disappears but it's not the same one flickering on the core. Seems like something is subtly different.

vague sigil
fierce estuary
#

heh

#

so it actually does corrupt

hasty trout
#

That looks very close to the current core

#

Like the same, basically

fierce estuary
#

not identical but close, probably alignment dependant

#

so yeah its not a bug, just happening a little too often because there's only one alignment

#

thanks you two for testing that for me

#

early famicoms didnt get OAM corruption, but instead got Palette RAM corruption, they made a change later on that swapped it

half pasture
#

All good in NES core land. Core is still perfect! elmorise

vague sigil
fierce estuary
#

fiskbit and I worked on this a bit

#

seems it's actually accurate behavior for this nes, moreso than you will probably find on any emulators

#

the demo leaves the OAM2 address dirty by drawing the bubbles in that region so it corrupts OAM1

#

so, I guess the moral is please test things on real hardware before opening tickets

half pasture
#

MiSTer wins again! elmorise

urban meadow
#

As MiSTer is wont to do.

clever scarab
#

I guess the core is at a point where if you can’t test it on real hardware then don’t report the bug?

#

And even then, can’t flashcarts introduce discrepancies?

half pasture
steep yew
#

but what about my wood man stage trees?

fierce estuary
#

the bubble pattern is based on initial ram values

#

in case you're wondering

#

to be clear it's possible there is bugs

#

but they are probably going to be really isoteric

clever scarab
#

With the NES core reaching perfection, maybe we can finally get jail bars

fierce estuary
steep yew
#

We all thought it

hasty river
steep yew
#

true bliss

#

your brainworms can rest

hasty river
#

are they borked?

steep yew
#

||#general-banter message|| you are about to step foot into a larger world

hasty river
steep yew
#

Nothing. There is nothing to fix. I just know that bringing up brings kit nothing but joy

fierce estuary
#

what are you talking about? the fidelity loss distortion?

#

it comes from losing and poorly seperating color data

steep yew
#

The trees shake on composite

#

Err RF

#

Because the picture is so shitty

fierce estuary
#

it's just random distortion your brain is trying very hard to justify as intentional

steep yew
#

My brain loves me

hasty river
#

The last bit on OG seemed to have some interference patterns playing on my screen so it looked extra shitty

cursive sable
idle patrol
#

I want AV artifacts in MiSTer... please, don't hit me !

cobalt nymph
# idle patrol I want AV artifacts in MiSTer... please, don't hit me !

I would love a 'make it like a bad crt/random artefacts/distortion' option!
OK my RT4K I do everything I can to make the image 'worse' but turning up the horizontal blur, scanlines, outputting at 1080p to soften it a bit, etc.
Having an option that makes it feel 'authentic' when you don't have an average crt to play on is the dream for me.
But I also 100% appreciate and want the perfectly sharp, accurate as possible, etc outputs for preservation purposes

cursive sable
#

Can it emulate my old 80s Zenith TV that would have diagonal green lines that I have to smack the set to get them to go away?

cobalt nymph
cursive sable
#

Eh, I was joking about that. Only ones I am seriously interested in are replicating effects that games relied on for things like transparencies or extra colors

cobalt nymph
main narwhal
clever scarab
ember bone
fierce estuary
#

what are you talking about?

#

are they real 7800 games?

#

do they use some new mapper or something?

jade zenith
#

aren't all of those games able to run on a stock 7800 without co-processors

#

i think the only game that has missing functions on the 7800 core is rikki & vikki; the music doesn't work

fierce estuary
#

it used a microcontroller for the music

jade zenith
fierce estuary
#

microcontroller, the fpga part is implemented

#

since osmund open sourced the fpga code I could just drop it in

ember bone
clever scarab
#

Man. I want to make an Atari game with an on-cart NES processor to enhance it. That’ll confuse all the nerds! elmorise

cursive sable
#

You mean like that add-on that Intellivision released for their console to play Atari2600 games?

clever scarab
#

Nah I mean an Atari 2600 cart that houses an NES processor which the game utilizes to do enhanced stuff. So it’s a self contained 2600 cart you can use on any 2600 system.

#

That would be my genius idea.

cursive sable
#

That's how Doom """""on""""" NES works

#

Houses a RapberryPi in the cart and just runs a full PC on that, outputting video to the nes

clever scarab
#

Yes but the genius of my idea lies in using another console’s processor. Is it a 2600 game because it plays on that system or is it an NES game because it uses that processor to function? Endless debates, hahaha!

cursive sable
#

So like many SNES games that had enhancement chips?

clever scarab
#

Look I just want to troll Kitrinx.

#

You happy now, you made me say it

cursive sable
fierce estuary
#

6502 (6507 on atari technically)

clever scarab
#

Yes

cursive sable
#

Same processor that runs robots in the year 3000 as well

fierce estuary
hasty river
#

Did they add more?

urban meadow
#

MiSTer wins again! elmorise

fierce estuary
#

yes

clever scarab
# fierce estuary yes

Is this like a cat and mouse game with the author of that testing software? He keeps devising new tests and you outsmart him every time.

fierce estuary
#

well, his last few things have been stuff that I discovered with fiskbit

jade zenith
cursive sable
hasty river
fierce estuary
#

I will not die easily, I am a warrior

#

well if everything you add is in response to a new test, you'll always be behind, the right move is the write the answers before the questions

clever scarab
#

Rolls off the tongue

fierce estuary
#

robby two points if you know what PAL is an acronym for

#

no googling

#

bzzzzt

#

Phase Alternating Line

tepid umbra
#

As a European who grew up with it I can confirm it stands for pain, agony and "LOL can you actually believe our kids play video games like that?!".

fierce estuary
#

you really did have it rough out there. First world war 2, and then PAL video

tepid umbra
#

Did? We still have no Wendy's! 😭

hasty river
tepid umbra
#

But VGE keeps telling me about "handys behind the Wendy's". NotLikeThis

hasty river
#

Yeah their burgers are made from real hand meat. You can find the remains out back.

clever scarab
elfin flume
tepid umbra
#

Bet even Kit got that one wrong. Good job, Robby!

clever scarab
#

🥺

heavy dust
main narwhal
#

SECAM best format

#

magazines used to make fun of NTSC calling it Never Twice the Same Color

#

but yeah once I saw games at 60hz, it blew my mind that, in Europe, some companies would just let their game run much slower...

grizzled tusk
#

I always seen as "never the same color". It was terrible for air broadcast.

glacial turtle
#

Let's be honest, neither format was great, especially for video. The move to 1080p/24 for films was such a game changer. You no longer had films running 4% fast and at a noticeably higher pitch in PAL Land, and in NTSC Ville you didn't have everyone moving like a jerky robot with the NTSC jitter as it tried to turn 24 into 60.

tepid umbra
#

Yeah but as a matter of fact most games at the time were made in Japan and the US, so they were designed to run with ntsc at 60hz. The PAL conversations were the worst of the bunch and I'm in therapy to this day because of that. NotLikeThis

covert crypt
#

Sonetimes... Very very rarely, the pal versions run at a more correct speed than the NTSC versions

#

The game I always use as an example is Zool for SNES and Megadrive. It feels incredibly twitchy on NTSC consoles but feels a lot smoother/natural using PAL. It aligns more with the speed of the original Amiga version.

#

Not that it makes Zool a good game by any means.

grizzled tusk
main narwhal
#

in the SECAM world there were some SCART TVs with RGB, so you could at least get a better image than composite

#

obviously HD and modern formats made that all moot

ember bone
#

Hoping that new console from RetroRemake IS an NES. Especially now with all this accuracy, it’ll be better than the Analogue NT

cobalt nymph
fierce estuary
#

it's one of the loadable video filter presets

#

in the video options

#

not part of the core's settings

cobalt nymph
fierce estuary
#

yes

cobalt nymph
#

Awesome thanks, I haven't checked those out really as I use Tink4K for the filter look. Will look!

fierce estuary
#

if you are using a 4k scaler it will probably look better than what mister can do at lower res

hasty river
cursive sable
#

Or so that's what I generally hear

grand jewel
#

David Braben & Ian Bell coded that version in 1991.

cursive sable
#

Such an amazing piece of game dev work

#

.... and now it takes 200 gigs to install a Call of Duty game that looks like the last several Call of Duty games where you just shoot at things...

idle patrol
#

But the loss of sprites in letters happen. I'll try later with type E chips i have.

half pasture
#

@idle patrol I think RGB-modded NES/FC aren't a good benchmark as they have their PPU accuracy compromised.

idle patrol
#

I thought that

#

It makes sense

fierce estuary
#

it's not doing palette writes/emphasis correctly

#

does indiana jones and the last crusade title screen with the sunset colors look correct? im wondering how broken it is

#

the loss of sprite chunks comes from a hardware bug in the ppu thats called OAM corruption. It occurs when rendering is disabled or enabled at a time when the OAM pointer is jarringly switched from OAM primary to secondary or vice versa AND the column of each isn't identical (usually 0)

#

in the demo on some alignments this happens when the bubbles are at the bottom of the screen, it leaves the OAM secondary address non-zero when rendering is re-enabled at the top of the screen, the OAM primary column corrupts

#

the bubble pattern is pseudo random based on initial ram's values

#

as for the color palette, it's rapidly toggling emphasis bits and writing to palette ram

#

it should be supported in all ppu models, though RGB ppu's like PC-10 would likely show different, weird colors because they handle emphasis differently

idle patrol
clever scarab
#

wow looks great for NES

idle patrol
#

Any other game to test ?

idle patrol
#

Accuracycoin results with type E CPU/PPU

IMG_7561.jpg
main narwhal
idle patrol
#

this one doesn't have firmware updates

main narwhal
#

it does... I have a few revisions 🙂

#

you need to ask the seller

idle patrol
#

it has no memory card slot

main narwhal
#

oh it's the lite version?

#

I got results similar to yours, though with an older accuracycoin

idle patrol
#

it's RGB-FC-V11G

main narwhal
#

oh you're right, those don't have updates, only the ones labeled "Lava" do

#

but the updates I needed were mosly for HDMI filters, if you use it on composite it's not needed

idle patrol
#

I use it by RGB

#

I bought because of the RGB

#

the results overall are perfect for me

#

but, it's curious the behavior

#

the Twin Famicom has errors on Accuracycoin too

#

the AV Famicom no

#

it can have an OAM corruption error, but sometimes yes, others no

#

I'm starting to think that the MiSTer core is more accurated than the real machines 🤣

#

With type G CPU/PPU

IMG_7563.jpg
main narwhal
#

interestingly I don't get as good results as yours

#

ah wait 2 of those are due to using a non-original controller

idle patrol
#

i haven't see a problem in any game I played

#

all seems to work perfectly

#

so

timber lava
#

Some tests issues are implied by the linker

main narwhal
#

somehow 2 tests broke with the OG controller... I have G chips

timber lava
#

it is interresting because with snac the mister core have issues

idle patrol
#

going to test again

#

dun know why

#

anyway ! it works !

#

🤣

half pasture
uncut wind
#

AFAIK anything NES+RGB intercepts PPU palette calls/writes and somehow reimplements part of the video chain so it's no more a reference original system implementation. I mean, that's deeply different from any "bypass RGB mod", i.e. as N64 or MegaDrive, where analog RGB was natively produced somewhere internally by the system and then intercepted, amplified and output by the mod.

#

Tl;Dr: you can't take anything from a RGB NES as reference

clever scarab
#

omg a “scripter of unusual size” role

fierce estuary
#

if you dont have it, some games wont run

#

mostly Huge Insect

fierce estuary
#

most of the inaccuracies will be in specific mapper code at this point

#

any RGB ppu will have issues, or old famicoms also will be less accurate

#

also american NES will struggle with some famicom games, so you'd technically specifically need a late model original famicom if you want to have a setup that's close

#

a lot of the accuracy of course is niche stuff you'll basically never run into in the wild

#

well

#

that we know of

#

it's really hard to know if it might happen in some minor but difficult to detect way

idle patrol
#

Understood

clever scarab
#

@fierce estuary your NES core plays the “just released” Splatterworld translation perfectly. Meanwhile Ares has graphical corruption in the intro. Awesome job! chefkiss

lost plume
clever scarab
#

Oh yeah oops

#

@lost plume there you go

#

We try to post about new translations in #games-and-patches

cursive sable
#

nice

lost plume
#

Thank you @clever scarab

Some insane dedication to translation, thing only leaked on Halloween. Going to check it out tomorrow

half pasture
main narwhal
#

so I'd assume SNAC would have the same problem

main narwhal
# 
AV Famicom              130/131
Lava FC Pro             124/131
Mesen 2.1.1             124/131
RetroUSB AVS            96/125
Hyperkin Retron 1 HD    92/126
NT Mini Noir            89/125```
#

these are the AccuracyCoin results I've measured with my hardware (+ Mesen)

#

bit shocking that a famiclone NoaC beats the NT Mini Noir in those tests 🤣

#

(obviously these tests are not the full story - they ignore many things including palette accuracy)

jade zenith
#

analogue loses again

hasty trout
#

"unparalleled accuracy" still baffles me the market these things go for on the second hand market. I sold my NT Mini Noir after it sat in my closet for like a year, because I was convinced the market was a bubble that was going to pop soon

main narwhal
#

the ranking might change a bit if I run with the latest test, but I don't think any of the bottom 3 will reach Mesen

hasty trout
#

I figured everyone would see "these are just closed source emulators that are just maybe decent for their time and don't ever get updated"

#

but that still hasn't happened lol

#

it's surreal

jade zenith
#

we are living amongst cattle

main narwhal
#

there is a very large crowd that mentally associates "I can use a cart" with "not emulation"

half pasture
#

Is Nesticle better than it? 🤔

undone willow
main narwhal
#

but we still played it a lot... it's a testatement to how much the NES emulation has progressed over the years

#

now we have hardware that is more accurate than the original hardware 😅

clever scarab
main narwhal
#

I heard the latest version passes all (or most) tests. Sour has been working with the AccuracyCoin guy too

#

Mesen is great though, it's super useful for PC Engine and debugging as well

#

I can even use breakpoints against my source code

clever scarab
#

Ohhh, should I use it over Ares?

main narwhal
#

it doesn't support the same systems as Ares

#

but for me, for developing homebrew, the debugger features of Mesen are second to none

teal ivy
#

the super famicom officially passes 108 tests (ok it's actually the tristar)

20251203_230350.jpg
jade zenith
#

someone should make an FPGA version of the tristar 64 :p

hasty river
#

I guess the question is, is Mesen now more accurate than Ares NES?

undone willow
uncut wind
#

I’m sorry and I want to apologize in advance if I'm asking something well known and obvious, but I'm quite out of the loop with MiSTer. I recently got my (very first) Famicom AV, all stock, connected through the AV composite cable to my PVM-20M2MDE... and I immediately noticed some weird random glitchy lines in SMB. After googling I saw it's a normal behaviour/glitch of the PPU, see
https://forums.nesdev.org/viewtopic.php?t=10104
and now I'm curious if the NES core recreates that behaviour (both with the HDMI and the Analog board).
Thank you in advance

half pasture
#

I know the core is 101% accurate to a specific revision of the console. Not sure if that’s the one exactly. Do you still have a MiSTer to give it a try? Oh, and it’s nice to have you back @uncut wind

uncut wind
#

Yeah, but I have to update it since... I don't remember... and I'm waiting for an analog board (in order to use it on my PVM).
I think that glitch is common to many (most? all?) NES/Famicom revisions... at least by reading that thread. But I could be wrong.

half pasture
#

If that’s a common glitch I’m pretty sure the core recreates it accurately. @fierce estuary ?

uncut wind
#

And I think it's partially bound to some PPU/CPU sync that varies upon boot/reset

half pasture
#

Oh, that the core doesn’t support yet (random alignments I think that’s what is called?)

uncut wind
#

I mean it depends on an initial state and on some race condition during gaming (but the initial state is a prerequisite)

half pasture
#

Right on

uncut wind
#

It should be a combination: if some random alignment occours, then the race condition may happen... but, again, I might be wrong

half pasture
#

I think Kit was working on supporting those random initial states

uncut wind
#

I see

#

At first I was worried my Famicom had some issues 😟

half pasture
#

The core is currently even more accurate than the real thing so yeah, technically all original consoles have issues now if compared to it elmorise

uncut wind
#

on the other hand, all different OG issues are a wide range of different references... each its own reference, accurate to itself by definition

half pasture
#

Yeah, don’t take me word by word, I tend to exaggerate a little bit on my statements (to the truth side, generally) NotLikeThis

uncut wind
#

Yeah, but I get what you mean 100%

#

and we could argue that it's a glitch users probably don't want to be faithfully recreated... but I was curious since it's something that jumped to my attention recently

clever scarab
#

Well, the MiSTer core is the most accurate Famicom/NES emulator in human history so chances are good.

fierce estuary
#

right now the NES core only does the good alignment, in which SMB does not glitch, but im add other cpu/ppu alignments for the speedrunner types

idle patrol
#

Then the perfect NES

hasty river
fierce estuary
#

I did a highly scientific personality test at one point and this is what it returned for me

image.png
idle patrol
#

What is that?

fierce estuary
#

it's a potato

idle patrol
#

Yes, a potato, but what it means ?

#

Una patata

idle patrol
#

🇪🇸

blissful prairie
hasty trout
#

It’s random for that session, until you press reset or power off/power on, then the alignment changes.

fierce estuary
#

but it's effectively random on power up and reset

#

it seems like systems tend to prefer the "good" alignment more than others, usually

#

it's a difficult thing to research, so it's kind nebulously understood

blissful prairie
#

So "alignment: [ ] random [ ] good [ ] bad" could be new advanced settings for the core? With the current core always sticking to [x] good

idle patrol
#

So the MiSTer is perfectly aligned

half pasture
#

MiSTer wins again! elmorise

waxen sphinx
#

I am wondering what with MisterFPGA now on your hand, do you really need any of those FPGA clone NES out there?

#

I am even wondering if you even really need the original NES, seeing as how it is broken and does not work

#

I am going to bring it downstairs tomorrow and enjoy an amazing retro experience.

#

Yup.

half pasture
#

Original NES is now completely obsolete! elmorise

#

And other FPGA clones are just labubus nowadays

clever scarab
cursive sable
main narwhal
#

if I'm not mistaken AccuracyCoin (and thus the MiSTer core) target the G variant, which was one of the American NES versions

#

AV Famicon uses an older one (I think it can vary). My Lava FC Pro uses G-0 which has a minor difference (and the AccuracyCoin result reflects it)

#

TL;DR your Famicom may be perfectly fine

idle patrol
#

Twin Famicom uses Rev. E,

#

AV Famicom uses Rev. H

#

My systems are these revisions

#

in the Aliexpress Famicom with RGB i have a G-0 too

fierce estuary
#

the ones after G arent really much different, early famicom PPU's and CPU's have trouble playing some games, while all of them work properly on G and higher

cursive sable
#

Did some of the really early PPUs overheat?

idle patrol
#

With everdrive there is a curious behavior with savestates in Twin Famicom.

#

You save and all is ok, you load and greyscreen or bad colors until you change the stage or you are defeated (because you can see nothing)

#

It doesnt happen in AV Famicom or the Aliexpress clone.

#

The misteries of NES/Famicom

#

Which are the most tricky games that can be affected by these disalignments or other bugs in the chips ?

mint lichen
#

Was messing with unlicensed games last night and I think I found some bugs in a couple Hummer Team games. In DKC 4 it stutters like crazy when you jump and scroll the screen, no issues on console. And in Final Fight 3 the game freezes right when you start the stage. Comparisons with AV Fami and latest Unstable here https://streamable.com/t6j91p

Streamable
Watch DKC4 FF3 MiSTer bugs | Streamable

Watch "DKC4 FF3 MiSTer bugs" on Streamable.

▶ Play video
mint lichen
#

Tried on the old core from before all the new work and they both work correctly, so something happened

hasty river
cursive sable
#

IIRC it was only on the really first revision Famicoms and was fixed by the time the NES came out

dreamy marten
#

You were probably too good at Rampage and the NES had trouble keeping up

hasty river
#

I dunno but it was a long game, we played for what seemed like hours, I dunno what caused it, like if the system was faulty or the cartridge or what

fierce estuary
#

if you use a savestate made on a G+ console they would work on the twin fami

fierce estuary
warm galleon
jade zenith
#

can we get a labubu emote

cursive sable
#

Please no 🙁

tepid umbra
#

Furby would be better.

keen pasture
#

imagine all the shitty licensed games we would have gotten 20-30 years a go when game development costs weren't so fucked

#

(and a random japanese developed, surprisingly good one)

tulip basin
clever scarab
opaque hamlet
#

Wondering why palletes are used for NES core?

vale trout
#

My understanding is that the colors that come out of the PPU don’t have specific RGB values, so the palettes are an approximation of what seems correct to various people.

dreamy marten
#

Yeah everyone saw different colors based on their TVs, which has led to endless discussions on whether the sky in Mario 1 is blue or purple

#

There's some discussion of the palettes here #1091056042667937944 message

dreamy marten
#

But if you want the best one, use the Kitrinx palette.

fierce estuary
#

Decoded faux composite looks like ass too

half pasture
#

PAL_saturated.pal is the palette from my childhood

hasty river
#

@clever scarab we're cooked I got it to decode your hat 😅

clever scarab
hasty river
#

Not any more

clever scarab
half pasture
#

Robbubu

cursive sable
half pasture
#

Labobo

granite pivot
#

Babaloo!

cursive sable
jade zenith
#

is there anything unique about these multicarts or is it just the usual pirated jank

tame flame
# jade zenith is there anything unique about these multicarts or is it just the usual pirated ...

Maxivision 30-in-1 is pretty special. Unreleased mini games. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9iu6DWrjSw

YouTube
The Video Game History Foundation
MaxiVision Power Video Challenge (direct VHS capture)

This is a new transfer of the MaxiVision Power Video Challenge, an infomercial for the MaxiVision 30-in-1 unlicensed cartridge for the Nintendo Entertainment System.

Scheduled for 1992, the MaxiVision 30-in-1 would have contained thirty games from unlicensed NES developers, including Color Dreams and Sachen, and, of course, AVE. It was eventual...

▶ Play video
timber lava
#

What is the differences of beta and proto version ? Which version will work @tame flame ?

tame flame
glacial turtle
#

Oh nice work! Has anyone been able to run through the games on these multicarts and check they all play fine? Be great to get these tested so it can go live

mint lichen
#

Don't all these games already work in non multicart form?

glacial turtle
#

Doesn't mean they are the same versions and doesn't mean they work with the current implementation of this new Mapper, they need checked

eager bison
#

When launching Famicom Yarou VOL01-3 on Mapper 45 using NES_mapper_45_52_200_487.rbf, sound plays but the screen crashes.@tame flame

1.jpg
fallen brook
#

has anyone actually played it in an emu?

#

no clue yet how invasive it is to get 1,5MB of chr-rom in the core

tame flame
fierce estuary
#

I can't remember but I think plenty of space is allocated for chr

mellow dawn
topaz moonBOT
# 
chr_aout[19:0] = {(chr_aout[19:11] & chr_mask[8:0]), chr_aout[10:0]};
fallen brook
#

that is what I saw last time as well yes, thought that 30 in 1 cart had 1.5MB chr

fallen brook
tame flame
mellow dawn
topaz moonBOT
# 
// CHR-VRAM  = 1100
mellow dawn
#

Note that chr-ram is only 2KB. It is probably corrupting the 2KB there. On a multi-cart that would look like a single game having only a small part of its graphics corrupted. It can probably be moved without problem to allow the 512KB there to be used. The next used segment is the cpu ram which is also only 2KB and is at the 1.5MB boundary. https://github.com/misteraddons/NES_MiSTer/blob/mappers/rtl/cart.sv#L15

GitHub
NES_MiSTer/rtl/cart.sv at mappers · misteraddons/NES_MiSTer

Contribute to misteraddons/NES_MiSTer development by creating an account on GitHub.

topaz moonBOT
# 
// CPU-RAM   = 1110
mellow dawn
#

A quick change would be to move the chr ram to 11101

topaz moonBOT
# 
chr_aout = vram_ce ? {11'b11_0000_0000_0, vram_a10, chr_ain[9:0]} : chr_aout;
mellow dawn
#

11'b11_0000_0000_0 to 11'b11_1010_0000_0

#

That still gives each 128KB and they only need 2KB each unless one of the mappers does something weird. Not sure if anywhere else cares about the locations.

lofty zodiac
#

Yoooo Mario 7 in 1 works in the core?

#

Truly the most important multicart of all time

fallen brook
#

I was quickly browsing through it yesterday and I suspected there was not enough allocation for chr

#

for the 30-in-1

tame flame
fallen brook
#

yay, I helped 🥳

#

if you update your repo I can take a look if you missed anything in the chr upgrade, most effective method to prevent regressions in my book

tame flame
fallen brook
#

different branch? your last update was 2 days ago

half pasture
#

Got a md5 for the proper 30-in-1 rom?

timber lava
#

on no intro set the beta version works on the core

simple hedge
#

Do these recent mapper changes make the Haratyler games playable?

timber lava
#

nop

#

even Mesen don't run them

simple hedge
#

they do some weird stuff?

timber lava
#

I think some protection and needs some RE

simple hedge
#

Gotcha

#

thanks

grand jewel
#

MP version even includes a chip that allows you to read MP3 files (Arduino controller).

timber lava
fallen brook
#

apart from the mp3 player, the spec on nesdev for that one does not seem impossible

#

since its mostly mmc3 it would not take that much extra logic either I am guessing

#

just not sure if it's worth it for one game from one asshole dev that likes to throw hurdles for the heck of it

cursive sable
#

I was even able to get a 100MB Mapper 342 ROM to run on that, a homebrew mapper made just for creating your own multicarts

opaque hamlet
#

wondering how you all have nes setup for crt in the core

#

overscan to everything?

#

mask edge both or auto?

#

extra sprites?

covert crypt
#

I'm gonna guess it's personal taste

#

How real do you want it?

#

For me, I'd have overscan on everything, no extra sprites. Essentially as if it were a real life NES hooked up.

jade zenith
#

i usually leave everything as default, but i will turn on extra sprites if a particular game has a lot of flicker

fallen brook
#

dev question. is adding CARTRAM to MMC2 acceptable for supporting the playchoice-10 rom of punch out?

#

I am not sure if this is considered "inaccurate" or if playchoice-10 is in scope for the core

cobalt radish
#

This is probably old news on here, but I just saw this vid...

#

The MiSTer / NES section starts just after the 13-minute mark.

#

Where it passed 110 out of 125 on his test ROM.

#

So I just compiled the latest NES core from github, and it passes 131 out of 131 tests.

#

So I guess your clever NES dev peeps have been busy, and/or he was using a really old version of the core? lol

#

Oh, I should have done a quick search on here before posting.

fallen brook
#

yeah that's an old vid indeed. kitrinx said challenge accepted and now it passes everything

cobalt radish
#

Kitrinx shared the vid on the N64 channel in October, and somebody else posted it on share-media and Misc. Other Cores in Sept.

#

That's great news.

#

I was just a bit bored, basically, and was looking to challenge myself to try fixing at least ONE of the timing things. lol

#

In case anyone's wondering the (Epson laser) projector does have a splodge on it.

#

Previous owner also tried to "clean" the lens, but scratched it so much, and even dented the entire lens in. lol

#

But yeah, that was it, really. It's great to see the NES core is so accurate now, and apparently even more accurate than the NES Classic emu.

#

I'll get back to my PCB cave.

#

(the file date on my NES RBF is just today's date, btw. The "latest" core is whichever code is currently on the git repo.)

late flower
late flower
#

i'm not kidding btw, many original NES don't pass all those tests

#

you need the right model NES that the tests were made for

cobalt radish
#

True.

#

That was also a thing on different Revs of the SNES, PS1, etc.

#

While it probably didn't make any noticeable difference in the games, they did have slight differences in timings, etc.

#

The newer PS1 revisions used a different type of VRAM (SGRAM, IIRC), and a different burst length, etc.

#

So when you get a core to a high level of "accuracy", some people might try the same tests and say "Well, it doesn't pass on MY NES". lol

cursive sable
#

Using an Everdrive will also make some tests fail IIRC

fallen brook
#

dev question. is adding CARTRAM to MMC2 acceptable for supporting the playchoice-10 rom of punch out?

#

I am not sure if this is considered "inaccurate" or if playchoice-10 is in scope for the core

#

(repeating the question because ash knocked my question back :D)

glacial turtle
#

Would goal be to add support and have mra files for each of the games, so they load like arcade games?

#

That could be fun

fallen brook
#

I think you can just load the rom

#

right now it crashes after the glass joe fight because it wants to write to wram and the retail MTPO doesnt have that

amber willow
#

It's a unique version of the game, it lets you put your initials in and it saves the best times which you can see in game. Regular MTPO doesn't have that. I vote yes since I want it to work, and maybe you can look into having it save like nvram since it was battery backed on the PC10 pcb.

#

What does the header say it uses?

mellow dawn
#

This assumes the difference from the real mmc is defined in the header.

timber lava
fierce estuary
#

that's good I guess

fallen brook
#

that's the perfect way to implement this it seems

#

thx!

fallen brook
fierce estuary
#

pc10 and vs both have significant extra info in 2.0 headers

fallen brook
#

indeed, I noticed that just now

#

apparently the last bits of a 1.0 header also has some pc10 flags but they are rarely used

#

says the wiki

fallen brook
#

I dont think those flags are even needed in this case because MMC2 has no other content, the battery flag will do just fine

covert crypt
#

I'm not smart, I make a mean omelette but that's about it - can anyone explain to me like I'm 5 as to how decapped chips help with FPGA development?

fallen brook
#

if the traces are clear, you can derive the transistor schematics from it and replicate it exactly in HDL

#

furrtek says this shot is awful so probably not clear enough

covert crypt
#

Thank you, I think having an understanding of HDL would help but I'm currently struggling enough with intermediate Microsoft Excel techniques so I don't think there's much hope for me.

cursive sable
#

You can basically see the circuitry, sort of like looking into the source code of a program

hasty river
tame flame
half pasture
tame flame
#

Once someone tests then I commit 🙂

fallen brook
#

dont commit yet

#

there is some chr size register in the emu module that needs an update too

#

i will review tomorrow

eager bison
#

I confirmed that the games included in Famicom Yarou Vol.1 ,
can be played. Thank you!

#

Famicom Yarou Vol.2 ,Vol3 also passed testing.

fallen brook
#

I think I see a problem

#

the address update in the cart module will move chr-ram out of the way of 1,5mb chr-rom, but I think the chr-rom available is still limited by the chr masking that is happening in the loader module

topaz moonBOT
# 
wire [9:0] prg_mask, chr_mask;
fallen brook
#

doesnt this need an extra bit for the chr_mask now?

#

unless I am missing something I think this masking is still limiting it to 1MB so the 30 in 1 should still break somewhere

fallen brook
#

is it true that this new memory map limits chr-ram to 2KB? that does not sound like it is enough to me

#

dynamic reallocation (when this mapper is active) might make more sense

#

this is much more work than I anticipated, I dont have time to propose updates, test and commit it

#

but pretty sure the chr masking and its functions need updating, not sure if this 2kb for chr-ram is enough for all mappers, and the memory map in cart.sv was not updated

mellow dawn
topaz moonBOT
# 
if (chr_aout[21:20] == 2'b10)
mellow dawn
# fallen brook is it true that this new memory map limits chr-ram to 2KB? that does not sound l...

Moving the chrram only limits it to 128KB instead of 512KB. And I think most (all?) mappers use a different address if they use more than the official 2KB, but I could be wrong. MMC3 for example uses the cartram space for games that have 4KB of chrram https://github.com/misteraddons/NES_MiSTer/blob/5afc4480be583b88d919b9ad2a13c0a1c3b1a517/rtl/cart.sv#L16

GitHub
NES_MiSTer/rtl/cart.sv at 5afc4480be583b88d919b9ad2a13c0a1c3b1a517 ...

Contribute to misteraddons/NES_MiSTer development by creating an account on GitHub.

topaz moonBOT
# 
// CARTRAM   = 1111
fallen brook
fallen brook
mellow dawn
#

Before moving it occupied 11 0000... - 11 0111... aka 512KB. After the move it uses 11 1010... - 11 1011... which is 128KB. And here is MMC3 using cartram https://github.com/misteraddons/NES_MiSTer/blob/5afc4480be583b88d919b9ad2a13c0a1c3b1a517/rtl/mappers/MMC3.sv#L866 Any address that starts with 11 11 is in what the code calls "cartram" which is the 256KB at 11 1100...-11 1111...

GitHub
NES_MiSTer/rtl/mappers/MMC3.sv at 5afc4480be583b88d919b9ad2a13c0a1c...

Contribute to misteraddons/NES_MiSTer development by creating an account on GitHub.

topaz moonBOT
# 
(four_screen_mirroring & chr_ain[13])? {10'b11_1111_1100,              chr_ain[11:0]} :   // DxROM/TVROM 4kb NT RAM
mellow dawn
#

Of course, the only reason it is done this way is because the NES core was originally ported from a system with less sdram. It could be modified to take advantage of the minimum 32MB on MiSTer sdram modules, if there is a compelling cart to support (Mapper 413 already specially handles a large file).

topaz moonBOT
# 
prg_aout[24:22] = me[413] ? prg_aoute_m413 : 3'd0;
fallen brook
#

ahaaaaa I see

#

thank you for explaining @mellow dawn , helps a ton getting to learn the core when you're years behind

mellow dawn
#

My problem is the opposite. I sometimes forget even some of the changes I made myself after nearly 8 years working on this core on and off.

tepid umbra
#

The legend of zelda redux romhack has a tendency to freeze when entering/leaving caves. I take it's the romhack as it also gets all funky with mesen.

dry lynx
#

That’s why you shouldn’t play stinky romhacks

jade zenith
#

shame as it's otherwise a great experience

tepid umbra
#

Yeah, almost feels like a modern game with the qol improvements and the instability.

jade zenith
#

lol

main lagoon
#

Has anyone gotten the Deadpool nes romhack to work? I just get a black screen

#

Which is annoying as it looks like a lot of fun

#

Ok got it working but strangely it only appears when i boot the console first... If i try to load it via the main mister menu via games it doesn't appear in the games list?

blissful prairie
#

Probably nothing to draw any new conclusions from but furrtek now has preliminary MMC5 shematics online

clever scarab
#

Maybe you have a funky rom patched game?

hasty river
#

or yeah patched wrong

keen rapids
#

We both beat Contra for the first time on the same day, lol.

#

This coincidence brought to us by another coincidence, which is that opening this sub-thread brought me almost directly to your post despite it being almost a full month old.

violet yoke
#

I noticed a couple NES games have corrupted graphics:
-Honey Peach
-Q Boy
I suppose it's possible this is an issue with the mapper. Anyone else experiencing this issue?

grand jewel
#

Same here.

#

Sachen mapper.

violet yoke
#

I don't see any mention of this on Github. Should I open a ticket?

grand jewel
#

I'm searching the mapper numbers.

#

Honey Peach >> mapper 243

violet yoke
#

Yeah it's listed as supported on the Github page so it seems to be a bug

grand jewel
#

Q-Boy >> mapper 141

violet yoke
#

Thanks so much! Both mappers are listed as supported+save state on the GitHub page for the NES and both have this corruption so I'm going to open a ticket

grand jewel
#

The game Q-Boy, using a PCB labelled 2M-RAM-COB, replaces CHR-ROM with 8 KiB of unbanked CHR-RAM, and is usually set to mapper 141. Emulators must therefore distinguish a banked CHR-ROM variant with a CHR shift of 1, and an unbanked CHR-RAM variant, of mapper 141.

#

Sachen 8259

fallen brook
#

did somebody say mapper issues?

violet yoke
#

I just opened 2 Github tickets:
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/issues/447
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/issues/446

GitHub
Mapper 141 has corruped graphics (Q Boy) · Issue #447 · MiSTer-de...

Like the other ticket I just opened, Q Boy is listed under the 141 mapper that's both supported with save states, but has corrupted graphics. Here's more info about Q Boy if it helps: &quot...

GitHub
Mapper 243 has corruped graphics (Honey Peach) · Issue #446 · MiS...

Mapper 243 is listed as being both supported and with save states, but the only game that it supports, Honey Peach, has corrupted graphics.

fallen brook
#

yay, more tinkering 🥳

#

is the chr_ram flag on in your header?

#

for q boy

violet yoke
#

Um, sorry to sound dumb but I don't know what that means. I'm just using the NES 2.0 roms. How do you check that?

fallen brook
#

a hex editor, or if you want something user friendly I suggest punes which has a built in header viewer/editor

#

the mapper allows chr-ram if that flag is set in the header

violet yoke
#

It works fine in the punes emulator BTW if that helps

fallen brook
#

pretty sure punes is designed to run anything, no matter how garbage it is

#

but yeah chr ram is set so that cant be it

#

what other games use mapper 141?

grand jewel
#

Normally only Q-Boy.

fallen brook
#

wiki errata: "The game Q-Boy, using a PCB labelled 2M-RAM-COB, replaces CHR-ROM with 8 KiB of unbanked CHR-RAM, and is usually set to mapper 141. Emulators must therefore distinguish a banked CHR-ROM variant with a CHR shift of 1, and an unbanked CHR-RAM variant, of mapper 141."

#

the mapper does not have unbanked chr-ram so it was designed for that other variant

grand jewel
#

You're the boss here.

fallen brook
#

since when 😅

grand jewel
#

Sorry, I was trying to be humorous this time. 😅

fallen brook
#

🤣

grand jewel
#

I understand that the Wiki page refers to the other games as being mapper 135.

fallen brook
fierce estuary
#

probably the first time anyone has ever tried to play those

clever scarab
steep yew
#

Is that Mapper 135 in your pocket or are you just trying to play a super cartridge

violet yoke
grand jewel
#

Chocolate medal.

fallen brook
#

well I had to download those, indeed mapper 141 and gave it a spin. what a rabbit hole jesus christ 😄

violet yoke
grand jewel
#

You have won…
Our utmost respect.
😏

fallen brook
#

those roms run fine so that is what the mapper is designed for and this q boy game seems to be an odd ball that needs unbanked chr ram apparently

fierce estuary
#

in theory whoever added them tested them at least far enough to get into game, so if there's a difference it's probably something that got slightly changed or fixed along the way, like the point in time that M2 happens

violet yoke
fierce estuary
#

it's clearly a chr address issue

#

the program runs fine

fallen brook
#

the chr_allow checks the chr_ram flag for some reason so that should work. but its not unbanked

#

this chr_ram flag works it seems, it is off in these "super cartridges"

timber lava
#

Q Boy seems interresting 🙂

fallen brook
#

I am going to assume here that the wiki is correct and this mapper needs a config with unbanked chr ram when the flags ask for it

#

solely for this game

#

I can´t find an overview with mapper 141 games and I am not going to plough through all that sachen garbage to organise it myself 😅

fierce estuary
#

there's apparently 4 mapper 141 roms

cursive sable
fallen brook
#

what the fuck is this honey peach game, srsly

image.png
grand jewel
#

I don't know.
I was only here for Q-Boy. 😅

fallen brook
#

I bet you were 😅

#

I raised a PR for Q Boy, that one was really easy

fierce estuary
#

anything japanese thing talking about peaches is pretty sus tbh

clever scarab
fallen brook
#

ok that made me lol 😄

hasty river
mellow dawn
#

Looking at history, I did these Sachen mappers back in mid-2019 and it looks like nesdev was updated in late 2019 after someone properly analyzed the hardware, so nothing in the existing mapper code should be given much credence. https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/commit/0c71ef16ca0565b08bdcc8fad7b53c36b0f56b50 In fact it said Of all the images marked as mapper 243 in GoodNES 3.1.4, Nestopia's database leaves ONLY Poker III (Sachen) [!] and Poker III (Sachen) [a1].nes as variant 374a, and refiles the rest as variant 374b (m150). And I likely only tested two games 150 - Strategist 243 - Poker III with the assumption they were the two mappers.

GitHub
Add support for Sachen and related mappers (133,145,146,148,149,137...

…38,139,141,150,243,136,147,132,173,172,36,143)

Limited testing with the following:
133 - Jovial Race
145 - Sidewinder
146 - Twin Eagle
148 - Mahjong World
149 - Taiwan Mahjong 16
137 - The Great ...

fallen brook
#

well I can't believe nobody took the effort to test this hidden gem that is honey peach

#

nes strip poker but with rock paper scissors, absolutely genius

#

10/10 would recommend

#

I feel honored in contributing to the preservation of these nes tits

fallen brook
#

there you go

hasty river
fallen brook
#

uhu

steep yew
#

Finally. Video Games

grand jewel
#

Core compilation in progress.
And with a "dejitter" option. 😏

fallen brook