NES/FC/FDS/Dendy

[burnt karma]

This is hilarious

That udio site is insane.

All the songs sound super compressed, like worse than 128kbs.

[hasty river]

Don't make fun of my compressed songs!

I love them

[clever scarab]

Haha you have compressed songs

[hasty river]

[mellow dawn]

If really wanted more mappers could be conditionally built and just do a second build for the useless mappers (removing some of the ones people actually use). There are probably 3 or 4 that have any reason for being done and could be added without needing a second build. (Didn't Kitrinx do a mapper 99 build...?). For the rest it seems like work to do something no one will actually use. That puts me off doing them.

[glacial turtle]

Yeah, reading through that list of missing ones, they aren't exactly carts to get people excited to play let alone Devs to support... There may be a handful of ones that are quite cool, like Datach

[fierce estuary]

I didnt finish with 99 but part

it's not hard though

[burnt karma]

I would totally download a HD version of this turtles song and blast from my car. Wearing sunglasses and acting all cool. With perhaps a farmer's style straw/hay in the mouth.

Or blast from my tractor, more appropriately

[fierce estuary]

there's like 3 or 4 that someone would actually use occasionally

and a few larger sizes for existing ones I think for weird hacks

paul has been doing those though

[alpine meadow]

As a non-old I find it terrible

Wait you made all these songs?

[hasty river]

If they say Dinierto yes

[alpine meadow]

That is super cool! Is like audio engineering and musician like your job?

[hasty river]

Nah it's AI assisted, most of them I wrote the lyrics and then generated 30 second clips specifying genre and style etc.

[alpine meadow]

AH!

[hasty river]

Maybe 2-3 I had it make the lyrics but usually it sucks so bad I just write my own lol

It's super fun

You listened to Field Phonographic Goat Array right?

That was one of the first ones I wrote lol

[alpine meadow]

Thay are super fun and cute

I just listened to the Aliens one

[hasty river]

Oh haha that was just messing around

The cream of the crop playlist has my favorites

[hasty river]

Thanks!

[burnt karma]

I noticed the lyrics don't quite match the song I heard.

How did you get it to do those lyrics tho, pretty close to the lyrics of the cartoon.

I tried using this platform, but it didn't care about the lyrics I gave it and just did its own thing haha

[hasty river]

On the older songs they didn't let you change/fix the lyrics. So like I said you generate 30 seconds at a time and you can keep regenerating the next 30 seconds until you get a version that you like. Then you can go back and change sections but it sometimes goofs up the written lyrics and you have to fix them. I haven't gone back and fixed the older ones that had this problem

[hasty river]

Ninja turtles? I just looked up the lyrics of the cartoon

[hasty river]

Sometimes that happens 😆

You did custom lyrics right?

Also this would be better in #bot-play

[versed ridge]

Does anyone know if there's a WIP NES with composite blend option ? (like genesis core)

[hasty river]

I don't recall the NES using a lot of dithering

[supple ermine]

It had only 52 colors.

[fierce estuary]

the chroma clock on nes isn't conducive to artifact colors and no games deliberately used composite subsampling for any kind of effect in an obvious way

if you want blurry video, just turn on gaussian blur or use composite output

there's no benefit to a composite option

[hasty river]

I don't recall the NES using a lot of dithering

[blissful prairie]

Well, dithering is the answer to that problem in many cases.

It's just that there are no known cases for using the composite cable to blend dithering patterns to achieve certain effects.

Not on NES though (but I think for a limited number of games on SMS where it is still missing)

[hasty river]

Right

Genesis is laden with them

Saturn too used checkerboard instead of transparencies often

[granite pivot]

7800 uses it for one game, Tower Toppler. Apple II, Atari 800, and CGA PCs use it quite a bit too.

[fierce estuary]

there's 2 iirc

on 7800

but yeah

[main narwhal]

a proper "universal" NTSC video HDL module would be nice to have, but probably way overkill. You'd need options to controls "knobs" such as chroma, brightness, etc.

palettes work well enough for me, also because it allows you to customize beyond the NTSC range of colors

[fierce estuary]

your tv already has those knobs

they are actually sliders now

check in your tv's settings

[main narwhal]

from what I've seen, you can't adjust the chroma or hue on HDMI

thinking about this: https://www.reddit.com/r/apple2/comments/1cido07/better_apple_ii_color_theory_and_results/

it takes sRGB as reference (as target given it's a modern standard), then calibrates a synthetic NTSC color signal to fit as close as possible to the Apple IIgs palette

but in principle those "knobs" could be user-adjustable to provide NTSC simulation and let users adjust to their heart's content ( + endless discord arguments on what are the best settings...)

but if I'm not mistaken it's already supported by RT4K, so anybody wanting that could use the external box

[fierce estuary]

you could, but that's a lot of wasted logic for a useless feature, since there's really only one correct reference output and again, if you want to break the colors your tv already does this

the only reason the nes output isn't defined is because it uses out of range signals that have undefined behavior

[oak egret]

On this topic: what’s with the “rustling leaves” effect people are on about in Mega Man 2? I’ve seen videos of it. Yeah, I guess it looks like they’re moving.

But I played a lot of Mega Man 2 when it was brand new. I don’t remember that effect at all from any of my replays over the years.

So what the story? Was it something on specific types of TVs or what?

[steep yew]

it has do so with RF...I think?

[oak egret]

That’s how I played my NES the entire time I owned my original. If it did the rustling leaves thing, it never stood out to me.

[steep yew]

Yeah, same. I played NES exclusively through RF

[hasty river]

Same

On an old ass 1970s zenith

[main narwhal]

yes, I hear you that for NES it doesn't make sense.

For Apple II and other composite computers, the display relies on the TV circuitry... so there is no real standard

anyway, OT for NES...

[oak egret]

The leeeeaaaaaaves…

[clever scarab]

Anyone here go “oh boy a Dendy core!”

[oak egret]

Drop to my knees every morning to give thanks.

[waxen sphinx]

I am excited

I have the original NES with me

tomorrow I am going to hook it into my TV

I have a choice to use RF or composite vesion of the NES

I am so excited..I am going to use the RF hehehehe

I want to buy another NES controller so I can use it on my MisterFPGA upstairs

hehe

I like using RF on NES..could not feel so coossy ever hehe

[fierce estuary]

nostalgia is a disease

[tepid umbra]

Original nes doesn't have the kitrinx palette so it's not as good as mister. 😇

[fierce estuary]

palettes aside, rf is gross

it undersaturates the picture, blurs everything into unrecogniseability, and even mutilates the sound with a 1khz-like filter

[glacial turtle]

If you are in a city then the RF signal could be rough with all the noise from everyone

[steep yew]

as miyamoto intended

[glacial turtle]

"What colour is the sky in Mario via RF?"
-"Not sure dude, looks like it is snowing."

[dreamy marten]

Toxoplasmosis isn't so bad unless you're a mouse.

Nostalgia is fun

[waxen sphinx]

I went composite it was so noisy I could not read anything

But NES still give that arcade crt feel on my tv in composite and the experience was sweeeweeetttttt

[waxen sphinx]

I could not stop laughing hahahahhaha

— hugs his nes — mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[clever scarab]

why so many m’s

[dreamy marten]

it's a symptom of the disease

[vestal blaze]

I’m intrigued by the fact that you specifically mentioned it undersaturates the picture - it just made me think about how many now view that the GBA intentionally oversaturated its palettes on the original handheld to compensate for the less-than-ideal tones of the original display.

Do you have a reference palette for the RF colors? Given that was one of the main ways used to view the console (and the only way used for the original Famicom in Japan for its initial run), it would be really interesting to do a direct comparison.

[fierce estuary]

RF is pretty imprecise, it's basically further-encoded composite which already comes with some issues seperating the chroma and the luma

on the NES in particular it does nothing to address the difference between NTSC-J and standard NTSC either

they just kind of expected you to mess with your tv settings

[warm galleon]

I was one of those animals that had an rf adapter for my Sega Genesis.

My TV I had in my room didn't have composite

[hasty river]

yeah I had RF for NES and Genesis cause of my 70s zenith tv

[dreamy marten]

RF brought many of us here

[waxen sphinx]

Loooool

I love how rf topic continues as if people went through world war and recap their horror stories hahahah

[urban meadow]

RF...RF never changes.

[steel flume]

I remember a time where if I didn't have 1 of these gaming was f**ked..

[calm jay]

pLZ maKE Rf FiLTer oN FamICOM coRE

[tepid umbra]

RF isn't the most deviant feature request I ever got.

[steel flume]

It would impress me to see someone that still has a tv with those 2 screws on it.

Bonus points if they already have a mister connected to it

[clever scarab]

I wish we could get an RF video with jail bars as part of the MiSTer framework. @fierce estuary what do you think?

[fierce estuary]

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[calm jay]

Plus those noises that the FDS emits when reading disk

[clever scarab]

Holy shit brilliant!

Maybe the FDS loading of the core breaks down after a year and you have to play a “replace the belt loop” minigame inside the core menu to keep playing.

[calm jay]

┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

[calm jay]

For sure!

Set it as default

[waxen sphinx]

Heheh hehehe I am happy

Keep discussing rf hahahahaha. Beahahahahhaahhahaha 😂👹

[vestal blaze]

Seriously, though - if there is a color difference, it existed for all consoles in the first decade of the system’s life in Japan.

The original Famicom was RF-only - even if there’s no love lost on the fuzzy picture quality, the RF color palette being different from composite is something worth investigating.

[hasty river]

Yep that's what I had to use lol

[steel flume]

The first tv I had to play nes on was a b&w tv my uncle gave me and all the had on the back was 2 screws.

[hasty river]

yeah that's all my 70s zenith had lol

[steel flume]

I was just watching a top 10 video of nes game endings so I was curious what are some of y'all's favorite nes game endings?

[dreamy marten]

https://misteraddons.com/products/composite-to-rf-adapter

For those that would like to join us in the Garden of Eden

[urban meadow]

Super Mario Bros. 2 (USA) will always be a highlight for me.

[steel flume]

One of my favorites is Dragon Warrior because it was my first rpg. Its even more interesting now with the 2 timelines now 1 for the good end where you defeat the dragonlord and 1 for the bad ending where you say yes to joining him.

[steel flume]

Dirty Harry is pretty cool..it does the voice for the full do you feel lucky speech at the end.

[tribal hinge]

Woo I finally beat Metroid in under an hour.

Sorry to spoil it that || SAMUS METROID IS A WOMAN ||

[steep yew]

i liked games better before they were woke

[steep yew]

i should play metroid again

it's p good imo

[steel flume]

You should try infidelity's snes port the map and status screen he added to it makes it a whole lot more tolerable..lol

[steel flume]

How dare you spoil a 38 year old game?! 🤣🤣🤣

[alpine meadow]

I love this picture and comment

[mental musk]

Hello there👋
The nes core still needs more optimization (they consider it finished).
Played Battletoads Double Dragon (US) with my nephew. Experienced serious lag during crowded fights. This didn't happen on the original NES. Major lag is especially noticeable on the ropes section in Round 3 when playing co-op. Single-player mode runs fine.

[stone bolt]

Could you post a savestate? Have you compared to an actual NES?

[mint lichen]

The game lags like crazy in coop on console, specifically on that moving rope section

[solemn sedge]

@fierce estuary Was just wondering, since SNES controllers/mouse work on NES with the appropriate cable adapter, could the new SNES rumble support be added to the NES? I know nothing supports it right now, this is not a request, just curious from a technical perspective.

[fierce estuary]

it can, easily

well actually sorry

not sure it would be super easy

i'd have to look at the lines snes uses

[solemn sedge]

Cool, thanks!

[fierce estuary]

but probably can be

[solemn sedge]

Appreciate the response. Would be cool if some homebrew or hacks support it eventually. Generally not my thing, but one of the neater 'new' features I've seen implemented lately.

[fierce estuary]

im not super warm to the feature because it's always going to be just hacky feeling, for snes and probably even moreso for nes

but it's not complicated

anyway it's mostly a copy paste from snes if someone adds it there

[tepid umbra]

The latest unstable for snes has it added.

[glacial turtle]

In theory could someone make a rumble controller for the NES, like was done with this SNES one, and have homebrew games support it?

[fierce estuary]

that's literally what he just asked

[glacial turtle]

He was asking about USB support, I was wondering about actual NES hardware that would also work via SNAC (the controller released for SNES worked out of the box via SNAC on the core)

Someone mentioned the other week this sort of thing wouldn't work on every console, as not enough pins I think was the reason. Although NES being simpler I would assume someone could make a rumble controller for the NES, but I don't know

[fierce estuary]

who cares

snes or nes controller, there's no difference

I dunno if that rumble uses some output the nes doesnt have, I dont remember the extra pin on snes

[glacial turtle]

I'm idly curious where what systems this might pop up on next now that it has been done for SNES, but I have no idea which systems it is viable on.

I remeber years back there was an announcement for a rumble pack for Virtual Boy and patched roms to utilise it, but I never heard much more about that, no idea if it happened.

[ripe shell]

https://youtu.be/3G6vkRz-_0I?si=mVo3SqULH_ET1TED

I am curious if we could have some optional debugging utilities to mess with sub routines either via USB or ethernet

[ripe shell]

Okay in hindsight, would probably be a major pain on MiSTer that way

[clever scarab]

Will need examples that demonstrates how it’s supposed to function on actual hardware if you can. That game had a lot of performance issues on the NES, especially in coop.

[tender niche]

Asked on misteraddons server as well but anyone rolling Famicom 3D System via snax? Got an adapter, set NES core to snax/3d glasses, and the glasses connection box just gets super hot and the glasses don’t do anything. On a CRT, tried with JJ and 3D Hot Rally

[granite pivot]

I haven't used it for awhile, but I did get it working. Also, JJ is definitely using code from 3D Worldrunner and wierd stuff happens if you play one right after the other.

[tender niche]

Yeah, the glitches are kind of cool actually! Anything special you did besides enabling in snac from what you remember?

[brisk sapphire]

Is there a way to play unpatched Vs. System games in 2025?

[steel flume]

The analogue pocket will play some of them.

[brisk sapphire]

But nothing on the MiSTer, right?

[granite pivot]

I think I may have had to swap controllers.

[clever scarab]

Nope, there’s no interest in supporting those mappers

[steel flume]

The mister gatekeepers won't allow it

[half pasture]

I think that if someone opens a PR it would be merged.

[tender niche]

Thank you, tried to no avail, will keep digging - I suspect bad adapter or headset at this point

[brisk sapphire]

What makes you say that?

[brisk sapphire]

I can see why. They are wacky mappers for such little gain.

I should implement them. Is there a contribution guide or something?

[clever scarab]

I think just basically do a pull request and that’s it?

[steep yew]

thats what i’ve been doing and its gone fine so far

[glacial turtle]

What Mappers are being talked about specifically? There are a lot of obscure ones not supported, that if someone really wanted to add them if done properly would be accepted.

[tepid umbra]

If someone adds a mapper for one of those games they should beat it first as punishment.

[glacial turtle]

Oh is this Mapper 99 Vs games?

[brisk sapphire]

Yeah

[glacial turtle]

Kitrinx did some work on that one, I think it sort of works but wasn't finished

[brisk sapphire]

Is there a branch sitting around that I could potentially finish?

[glacial turtle]

I am sure she will pop and update on the status of it, will be in a branch somewhere

If you are interested in trying your hand at NES mappers then here is a sheet I made many years ago now, it documents what Mappers are across MiSTer, Analogue NT, and the other FPGA NES solutions, so you can see what is missing from MiSTer core that is on other devices and a brief bit of info about it. It is all obscure stuff, mostly homebrew, pirate carts, obscure east Asian and foreign educational things, but may be of interest to you. Some look to be simple tweaks of mappers we have so a good first thing to try.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iJM0-bT9_d7SZTpBevZ6d0IiJ05T6Cs_5KubpBqpVRM/edit?usp=drivesdk

[granite pivot]

Does anything support Estique yet? The JP cart, I got dumped with mapper 4 (MMC3). The US/EU cart is more tricky. Using the same setting as the JP version dumps the PAL rom and I had to dump the whole rom and use a hex editor to get the NTSC version working. US/EU cart uses an odd MMC3 based multicart mapper to switch between PAL and NTSC. It doesn't work perfectly since the PAL rom occansionally loads from the actual cart on my NES (all my systems are NTSC).

[half pasture]

NES core runs the proper JP rom dump just fine

[granite pivot]

yeah, I think that one is just MMC3, AFAIK.

I got the games running on the core, but not the full US/EU rom with odd mapper. I did split it into two MMC3 roms, which do work. Seem to run without issue and display properly, but I have nothing to compare the checksum to.

[half pasture]

Oh, I don’t think a proper US/EU has been dumped yet, yeah

[granite pivot]

I have a sanni reader and dumped it myself, but pretty much used a workaround to get the US/EU version working.

[half pasture]

No graphical glitches like the previous/broken jp version?

[granite pivot]

As far as I can tell, but I got that odd line at the bottom of the screen on the actual carts.

[half pasture]

I think that line at the bottom is expected. I think you can call it a day with your US/EU dump then! 🙂

[granite pivot]

and the game isn't overscan friendly

[half pasture]

It isn’t

[granite pivot]

I do like it quite a bit, though.

[half pasture]

It’s a great game! It’s a shame that it’s so easy/short

[granite pivot]

Definitely feels like a compile game

[fierce estuary]

I have a graveyard of feature branches

[brisk sapphire]

I can never finish anything. Why is it so hard. I get depressed that I did everything all stupid and never finish it.

[fierce estuary]

my problem is I make features that I think aren't really good for the users so I scrap them

though a lot of my things i've merged, some of it was just bad features

like the NES faux stereo

I made a realistic composite blend at one point too that used a shit ton of logic

with artifact colors and stuff

I significantly rewrote the nes ppu at one point which im sad I never finished, but I could never make it pass one of the tests

passes every test but one 😭

also I never wanted to add save states to it

because it's got a TON of state

[glacial turtle]

Nobody able to help you get that one test to pass? Even with that one fail, is it not more accurate than what we have?

[fierce estuary]

yes

[half pasture]

@fierce estuary we appreciate everything you have been doing 🙏

[glacial turtle]

Why not merge in the PPU update, would be cathartic to get it off your plate and maybe with more eyes on it then that test can be passed, and if not still an improvement. 🙂

[wicked cobalt]

I would love to see the composite blend feature, that sound exciting!

[steady current]

On this I'm genuinely curious if the NES core could be developed to be able to output composite like on actual NES hardware

[dry lynx]

TIL the NES core isn’t perfect 🤯

(As in passing all known tests)

Not a criticism to be clear - just something that surprises me 😅

[steady current]

I'm curious what the current core is missing

[tepid umbra]

It passes the test of bringing me unparalleled joy when playing NES RPGs with it. What more do you want? Kit did a damn fine job. Thank you Kit.

[steep yew]

I’d bet they were those hypothetical hardware tests that real hardware passes but no games actually use

The stuff SRG is halfway chasing with Saturn

[dry lynx]

I didn’t claim it was bad!

It’s just one of the more mature cores that I know countless hours of development went into. The fact that there were still known things just surprised me - that was all

[dry lynx]

That would be my guess too

[tepid umbra]

You claimed NES RPGs are bad! 🥺

[dry lynx]

I’d argue many have aged poorly

But I say that having never finished one

[tepid umbra]

I love them. You aged poorly.

[dry lynx]

That is certainly true

[livid leaf]

Take a shot for every Dragon Quest clone on the Famicom.

[hasty river]

So I hear the NES core is shit

[glacial turtle]

You misheard, the NES core is the shit.

[urban meadow]

An important distinction!

[steel flume]

I see people are talking shit about nes dragon quest games. You got a problem with dragon quest/dragon warrior you got a problem with me!

[tepid umbra]

I love those games so I guess I love you!

[dreamy marten]

who is trash talking NES DQ games?

[tepid umbra]

This guy @dry lynx is trash talking ALL NES RPGs.

[dry lynx]

Yep

[granite pivot]

That infamous White Lion game is actually based on an obscure children's movie

[inland blade]

Which in turn was copied by Disney on The Lion King

[granite pivot]

Ghost Lion is the game I thinking of and it's not related to THAT white lion.

[inland blade]

Ah! You are right! 😄 My fault, I was talking out of my ass

[dry lynx]

I just think RPGs started to come into their own during the 16 bit era

[clever scarab]

Looks like someone wasn’t a young Japanese child growing up in Japan during the late 80’s.

[timber lava]

telenet, falcom, square and enix started on PC8801

[tepid umbra]

You're just making it worse.

[dry lynx]

You got me

[steel flume]

They got better in the 16bit era but that was mostly visual. The gameplay was basically the same.

Unless you talking about Chronotrigger..that's a totally different story

[tepid umbra]

Better is very subjective. I kinda miss the black backgrounds in NES RPGs and the slow gameplay loop. It really matches my mood.

[dry lynx]

I like graphics, stories and not having random battles every 3 movement squares

[tepid umbra]

I enjoy battles and see numbers go up.

[dry lynx]

Numbers bore me

I like story

[waxen sphinx]

I really, really, really love my original NES hehehe

I have an NES question..one question

If I get the NES disk drive, can I put all the ROM games in the disk drive and run it from the disk drive directly?

Can I convert the ROM to a single floppy disk...and run the game from the disk drive? Just curious

[clever scarab]

You mean the Famicom Disk System?

[supple ermine]

If you mean Famicom Disk System,no. If you mean a disk based copier, then yes but we have much better technology nowadays. (And you probably can't find a disk based copier in 2025 anyway.)

[waxen sphinx]

Oooh

Damn that nes is a toy by the very definition of toy

It is what a toy looks like hahah

[jaunty pier]

Correction. You couldn't fit all the games on one 3.5" floppy. Would likely take about 20 of them. And I can't guarantee the access speed would be enough for the core to load. I am curious though.

As for modifying original disks for the FDS, the process is pretty annoying but apparently is possible. Need a modified famicom disk drive though that can write to the disks

Likely an original famicom too. I can't guarantee the MiSTer has everything to run that the same.

[fierce estuary]

it passes almost all of them out of hundreds

the ones it doesn't pass are mostly kind of silly things, like the reset palette color which actually isnt the same from system to system

i didnt want to it to default to ugly green so I used grey as the default instead, but the tests wants green

there's a few extremely isoteric ones about intentionally causing dma collisions too and half-cycle corruptions

I kinda know how to fix them and the ppu rewrite probably would, but they dont impact any games

[tepid umbra]

Thank you for your hard work Kitrinx. I enjoy the NES core immensely and never had any issue with it. 🙏

[waxen sphinx]

Me, I have both..MisterFPGA and real authentic NES

[tepid umbra]

You don't need both. Gut your nes to make it a slick case for mister!

[waxen sphinx]

Nooo!

• hugs his real NES - I love it!!

Such a toy!! TOY DAMN IT!

and I love toys!!

[tepid umbra]

I wish there was a golden sd card for mister as there is a golden zelda cartridge for nes. That's the only thing I'll give the nes over mister.

[main lagoon]

is there a hidden gem chat anywhere on this discord? was wondering about famicom games

[tepid umbra]

All famicom games are hidden gems imo.

[dry lynx]

Dragon Quest 3 is the most hiddenest of all gems

My current NES game of choice is tiny toon adventures

[livid leaf]

Super Mario Bros. 3 is the most hidden of gems

[steel flume]

Metaljesus knows hidden gems

[dreamy marten]

There's a little stick you can hook up to a real nes and store fds games on it

[glacial turtle]

You still need the RAM pack thing that comes with the FDS drive that plugs into the cart slot, but the stick is a great placement for the actual disk drive

[urban meadow]

Like the secret hidden gem Super Mario Bros.!

[tepid umbra]

You spilled the secret!

[tribal hinge]

https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?t=7906 i was on a mission to figure out how to play Vs Excitebike on the MiSTeR but never got it to work. sharing for reference as there's a link to an incomplete mapper core

#1091056042667937944 message

[granite pivot]

The hacked VS. Excitebike still uses mapper 99 for some reason. FDS version is playable on the core, but music is completely different, though it has actual in game music.

[granite pivot]

and the purple cart Duck Hunt that is totally not the exact same ROM as the US version! 😉

[clever scarab]

Ok, genuine question here and I apologize if it sounds combative. I don’t know how else to ask it.

What’s up with people wanting the arcade NES games supported? Whats the desire behind it?

[urban meadow]

As in the VS arcade games? There are some fun differences, mostly challenge related. Like VS Super Mario Bros is a remix of both SMB1 and JP SMB2.

[clever scarab]

oh sorry, I knew that. They are cool.

But I meant like are the patches bad?

I never used them

[urban meadow]

I've never used the patches either. Honestly, I didn't even know about them!

[granite pivot]

Differences from the NES versions, especially with the Nintendo made ones. Duck Hunt alternates between the duck and clay modes and adds a new bonus round where you can shoot the dog. There's actually a sequel of sorts to Duck Hunt on NES called Barker Bill's trick shooting, which has a similar dog and a mode that combines the other modes and adds a bonus round, similar to Vs. Duck Hunt.

[urban meadow]

Oh wait, I actually do have arcade Duck Hunt on my MiSTer. And yeah, that version is awesome.

[granite pivot]

SMB hack is awesome too and saves settings, IIRC

Barker Bill's Trick Shooting even has a rendition of the high score theme for Vs. Duck Hunt on the results screen.

[dreamy marten]

You can shoot the dog???

That's something the kid at school makes up

gotta check if they work on everdrive

[urban meadow]

In the bonus round yes you can shoot the dog.

[clever scarab]

But those are rom hacks to simulate the arcade games right? The dream is to get the actual games working?

[tribal hinge]

I wanted it for excite bike because I had randomly found out that the excite bike can turn gold and get unlimited turbo in the vs edition

[clever scarab]

That’s pretty cool

[tribal hinge]

And then I found out famicom excite bike has that feature

But at the time the nes core didn't support famicom save states and then shortly after it did and I love me some save states 😂

Plus you know us fans tend to get obsessive about things most don't care about

[tribal hinge]

bUt It'S nOt ThE sAmE!

In my heart of hearts I'll know!

[clever scarab]

I have no clue, I’d assume they would be pretty different right?

At the end of the day it’s hacking up another game.

[tribal hinge]

I dunno I'm just being silly 😂 but I don't think vs excite bike ever got a proper nes patch

[clever scarab]

Damn

Sorry for my dumb Winston’s

[tribal hinge]

Lol you're good

[granite pivot]

The games use NES hardware and the Vs. hacks hack them to work on the NES PPU. The Vs. Excitebike patch works on Everdrive, but only because it supports mapper 99. Also the Vs. Hogan's Alley patch doesn't work since it doesn't work with the light gun.

[blissful prairie]

The arcade expansion, VS. Ice Climber, has an animated title screen, a stage select menu at the start of the game and between levels, 16 additional mountains, occasional blizzard and wind effects, more antagonists, and bonus multiplier items and extra vegetables. It has been initially released on December 17th, 1984 for arcades, before being released for consoles on February 4, 1985.

I can recommend Vs. Ich climber. There was even a vs. to NES patch on romhacking.net

That was one of the few games that my family owned when I was a kid.

Maybe rose tinted glasses but for me it is a super arcadey classic, just like Mario Bros and Wrecking Crew. Much derided, but worth it. You just have to get used to that pre SMB "old school" jumping.

Regular NES ice climber has a few details left out and a big bug added in the later levels.

[urban meadow]

I enjoy me some Ice Climber. I always felt that the jump physics were fine since the game is designed around it. Only issue I have with the game is the sometimes dodgy collision detection when landing after a jump.

[granite pivot]

I thought it was the FDS version, which is based off Vs., that had the bug. Some garbled graphics in later levels due to not bringing over all the bonus round item sprites. The bee enemy in Vs. uses the bird sprite in the FDS version, but doesn't give any points like the normal birds.

[granite pivot]

Or is this what you mean? From StrategyWiki: "On level 54, the bird slows down to an almost still pace, then gradually speeds up with each level, but still remains very slow"

Also, earlier versions of the Vs. Ice Climber hack were bugged and would only boot after multiple resets, but the latest version is fixed.

[blissful prairie]

I guess that I confused the versions then. The garbled graphics were the problems that I had in mind.

[granite pivot]

Nintendo also made an simplified LCD version of Ice Climber named just "Climber". Game and Watch Gallery 4 has it as an unlockable.

[granite pivot]

The Vs. hacks use the arcade roms, they just hack the game to work with the NES PPU and controllers.

[clever scarab]

Ohhhhh!

[solemn sedge]

Having never played any Celeste game, I didn't get the hype for 'Celeste Mario's Zap & Dash DELUXE!'. But tonight I was applying patches to a few other games and figured I'd finally give this a whirl to see what all the fuss was about. My god. Mind Blown. Don't be like me, play this NOW!

[granite pivot]

There's also a Celeste demo for NES that's based on the console and PC versions, not the more simplistic Pico-8 version. It has the tutorial and first two chapters and has dialog and cutscenes.

[tribal hinge]

This is a game worth seeing through! Glad you are enjoying it I got through it myself last year and had such a a blast

Wow how bad my estimate of time is..

I played it this year 😂

[main narwhal]

obscure? it's from Osamu Tezuka (Astro Boy)🤣

[granite pivot]

I'm talking about this game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Lion

and someone already beat you to that comment

[main narwhal]

actually its unrelated

[burnt karma]

https://www.youtube.com/live/5GYp5ve_WfQ?si=cCQlvITO-Rbm4Npv

This is pretty cool. Great rom “hack” by Infidelity which allows for saves and playing as toad or princess or mario2 style Luigi….

But I noticed a bit of slowdown when playing in Mister.

I know this game well, and that exact slowdown I experienced I know doesn’t exist in the original.

So… not sure if it is mister related, or the rom itself.

I’ll test it out tomorrow on a real nes. But it’s interesting!

[main narwhal]

looks like "white lion" is the original Japanese name

which is from a movie

[granite pivot]

Which I said in the first post...

[main narwhal]

so its not Leo/Kimba the lion from Tezuka

[granite pivot]

I never said it was

[main narwhal]

I thought it was. just correcting myself

[granite pivot]

you misread my post

oh ok

odd that the movie was only released in Japan in English.

[main narwhal]

therr doesnt seem to be any link between franchises, but it is odd

"Kimba the white lion" is the English name, in Japanese it's "Jungle Emperor Leo"

[heady wolf]

Does anybody know if the core supports Super Russian Roulette? I'd like to play it on something other than my cartridge copy at times.

[glacial turtle]

It does indeed

[heady wolf]

With all the voice lines?

I just dont wanna bust this cart out of the box very often... It appears to be breaking the $1000 mark for a mint CIB copy

[glacial turtle]

That I don't know but the mapper was added a few years ago

[heady wolf]

Ill give it a shot tonight when i get home from work. Thanks!

[glacial turtle]

Would be good if you can check since you know the game well

If there are issues then likely can be fixed

[waxen sphinx]

This is my NES with everdrive

It is a struggle to make it work

and when it works and I play game it does not save the saved game for next power cycle for some reason

here is another problem

when I play a game I like so much, and never power off my NES and keep it on for day

s and days and days

when I come back to continue playing where I last stopped, game always freezes, crashes, screws up, etc

and I have no choice but to power cycle it and come with this issue

I need to power on/off nES so many times, soft reset so many times in order to finally make it work

Is it because all NES games have memory leak issue and they where not designed to be on for so long?

Is this a common problem on NES core as well?

[ripe shell]

Do you hold reset before turning off the system?

[waxen sphinx]

No, why??

[ripe shell]

Okay, when you say that do you mean battery backup saves or save states on the Everdrive cart?

[waxen sphinx]

both save state and normal save fail

it should have a folder in !saves

but either it does not save it there

or cannot restore it back

and save stat also fails

wait

you are saying I have to hold in reset button before turning power off?

ok...that is hot....cool and hot

I did not know that

what about this syndrome:

[fierce estuary]

the everdrive doing this is the same reason the mister only saves when you open the menu

[mellow dawn]

The voice lines work fine. All the audio is produced by the sample channel of the NES APU. Auto-incrementing the address is not complicated. The only thing really unusual is the size. Holding 16MB is going to cause difficulties for clones/flash-carts that don't have enough RAM. Even then, it might be possible to pre-cache the data as the audio is read sequentially. Not sure on what the needed speed is though. MiSTer has plenty of room in any version of the SDRAM to hold the whole thing.

[waxen sphinx]

No one helped me with the issue shown in the picture though

[steep yew]

Is that a mister or an everdrive problem?

[mellow dawn]

Have you tried a different flash card. If saves are not working I would first suspect writing issues.

Other than that, I would check how your setup is different. Are you using an NES or a clone? Do you have a good power supply? Are you using a real everdrive or a clone? Which version? What version of firmware is on your Everdrive? Most official NES games will never crash when left on indefinitely as long as using official hardware with a reliable power source.

If you have typical answers to the above questions and if you can't write saves then the card seems the most likely failure point to me.

[waxen sphinx]

I am unsure if it is everdrive problem or NES problem

this picture is authenticate real, legit, USA version NES with everdrive card

[waxen sphinx]

Are you using an NES or a clone? I am using an authentic, original USA NES made in Japan by Nintendo.
Are you using a real everdrive or a clone? I am using a real everdrive the original, legacy one and not the Pro edition.
Which version? How do you check?
Which version of firmware is on your Everdrive? How do you check?
Most official NES games will never crash when left on indefinitely as long as using official hardware with a reliable power source. <<= the PSU is original Nintendo PSU for NES.
If you have typical answers to the above questions and if you can't write saves then the card seems the most likely failure point to me. <== do everdrive fail by time?

This is my NES

-- hugs it -- mmmm

It did it again....I am playing this game...left it aside idle for sometime and now it have run-time error

where collision detection no longer works...

[mellow dawn]

What game?

[waxen sphinx]

old tower

it is an indie game

I am suppose to collect these gems to go to next level

now I pass through them and collision detection failed

https://retrosouls.itch.io/old-towers-nes-famicom

I pass through the green dots and no longer they are detected when I collide through them

it happens to lots of games where collision detection stops working

sometimes the character appears at the title screen...graphics glitch, showing the title screen while collision detection is still detected on the actual level

and then I reboot it finally I get it

like this

and then I have to reboot NES forever before it works again

[mellow dawn]

Based on that description I would guess the everdrive is failing. If you are resetting over and over and it eventually works, I dont think the flash card is being used.

[waxen sphinx]

You mean the everdrive itself is dying?

Is it that the game is running on memory while the everdrive is dead?

and after so many reboots it kicks up again?

and that is why it is not saving or doing glitches?

Hmm...can the connection of the cartridge and nintendo be not so good?

Do you think replacing this:

?

Would be the solution or indeed everdrive is dying

?

[solar ferry]

Do you find it happens with a quick switch off and on? My PS2 has voltage issues if I do that. I have to wait a decent amount of time before I could turn it on again.

Might be a problem on your machine. Does it happen with any other cartridges?

[latent breach]

have you tried cleaning the cartridge pins on the Everdrive? I seem to recall needing to clean mine shortly after I got it

[heady wolf]

Is there a way to use a 8bitdo controller with joysticks as lightguns control?

[steel flume]

Yes there is look under input options for periphery. You set it for zapper mouse or joystick 1 or 2

[heady wolf]

Yup i found it thanks!

[steel flume]

You will also want to set the zapper trigger to joystick also

And have cross hairs on

[heady wolf]

Works great on the mister! I gave a few test runs today!

[waxen sphinx]

There are many reasons why I got an Everdrive, so there will be one cartridge in there. It's been there for a long time, and I can play endless games without having to remove the cartridge and put it in, causing wear and tear. Unfortunately, I am unable to test it with other cartridges, as my NES only has one.

[waxen sphinx]

You are coming closer to my thinking. I am going to order a special NES screwdriver and check it. I want to check the contact, cleaning, etc, and put it back in again and see how it behaves. I want to test the saved data to see if it works and keep a game idle for a long time and see if it still works....I want to power cycle my NES and see if EverDrive works immediately. Then I will report my findings here until we get to the bottom of the issue and fix it there.

Hmmm I had it off for couple of days and when I turned it on, I am greeted with black screen only.

I need to get the screw driver and use it. I know it is easier to get MisterFPGA and use it instead of NEC, but I have it upstairs and I want to be able to use MisterFPGA upstairs and since I have an NEC here, real one with everdrive, why not recycle it and use it here?

I also have SNES+everdrive and I should bring it downstairs too and use it here as well.

[tepid umbra]

I hope you win your fight against time and aging hardware. 🙏 ||for now||

[dry lynx]

I was about to make a joke that there’s a thing called MiSTer which would get around all of these problems 😅

[waxen sphinx]

I have it here -tabs- but I am recycling

[steel flume]

Us retro gamers are big on that recycling thing.

[waxen sphinx]

Now I know how to fix it

it confirmed my NEC works but...but

I need to open it...re-adjust the slot try..make sure it is not lose

get alcohol

and clean everything, including the everdrive

I will open the everdrive and clean it with alcohol .....I will also clean the cartridge slot of NES with alcohol as well

make sure there is no lose components inside

get some drill, hammer there, knife here, blow torch there, surgical utensil over there

-- smash, smack, drill --

give it couple of wrestling move here and over there

and TA-DA!!! Perfect working mint condition system...-- sniff --

All of that under the guise of recycling -- sniff --

Also I have MisterFPGA with NEC core -- double sniff --

[fierce estuary]

my suggested fix is to use mister instead of dying old hardware

[steep yew]

that sounds like something someone who is in the pocket of big mister would say

[tepid umbra]

Big MiSTer got to Kitrinx? Unbelievable. 🤯

[dry lynx]

Never trust anyone who thinks the sky in SMB is periwinkle 😉

[steep yew]

I couldn't pick out periwinkle on a map if you asked me

[tepid umbra]

Honestly with the amount of fun and happiness I've had with the NES core I'd support kit if she said the sky was green.

[urban meadow]

I could make a case for periwinkle sky in Super Monkey Ball.

[dry lynx]

Kiss ass

[steady current]

I love using both, honestly

Any chance I get with aging hardware, to spend time and enjoy it is worth the wait

[clever scarab]

omg omg omg

[steep yew]

that's a good looking sticker

[burnt karma]

Here we go.

[tepid umbra]

YES! This exactly the kind of Big MiSTer that would get to Kit!

[hasty river]

Ooh he's very big

[ripe shell]

That's some good framing

[wicked cobalt]

OMG, we need to keep this as a logo for the Mister sucessor device!

[hasty river]

BigSTer

[quasi dome]

Hey I got a question
Does anyone have that Python script that Kitrinx Made to add the proper headers to NES games

[fierce estuary]

um

it's on my github

https://github.com/Kitrinx/NES_Header_Repair

[quasi dome]

I am not going to lie. I, in an immense moment of stupidity on my part, completely forgot you had a github
My apologies

[fierce estuary]

i'm a modern lady, well-versed in the operation of all the space-age home appliances

[quasi dome]

lol

ah yeah. I wonder how that mapper database is gonna work with newer rom hacks because a few dropped for Metroid 1 recently

but anyways thank you @fierce estuary

[fierce estuary]

no probs

[clever scarab]

lol that GitHub icon is great

[urban meadow]

It's the cat from Azumanga Daioh!

[clever scarab]

me say daaaaaaaaai, me say daaaaaaai-OH

Azumanage come and me want to go home

[urban meadow]

Who shot who in the what now?

[steel flume]

Just curious I feel like the game wasn't very popular but did anyone else here like the Godzilla King of Monsters game on the nes?

Not the best game ever but I had fun with it

[tepid umbra]

Yeah I like it.

There is also some fun creepy pasta for it.

[dry lynx]

I like pasta

[tepid umbra]

Now I'm hungry.

[steel flume]

I'm cooking pizza 😁

Pizza and pasta are a big portion of my diet

Speaking of Godzilla..Shin Godzilla is back in theatres remastered in 4k

[onyx ridge]

May have found an issue.. I'm trying to play NES Open Tournament Golf and when I get into a game and try to change the swing settings I start to get some graphical glitches. Tried on the latest stable NES core from 25.06.18. I thought it might have been a header issue as that seems to be common but I tried another ROM and got the same issue

Oddly enough the Japanese version of the game works fine for as long as I tried to play it

[clever mango]

Okay my mister is acting really funky with booting FDS roms

Some roms won’t boot, some roms will have incomplete textures

Any help?

[urban meadow]

Just tested it on my end, and I'm not seeing it. Do you have any sort of options enabled like Extra Sprites?

[clever mango]

Like ???

[urban meadow]

Is this SMB2 JPN?

[clever mango]

This is all night nippon

Suddenly like half of my FDS games aren’t working

Or have broken/missing sprites

[urban meadow]

Hmm, just tried it on mine and no issues. Is it just FDS games, or is anything else amiss?

[clever mango]

Just FDS games

[urban meadow]

Did you double check all your settings? Like extra sprites? Disk speed? Etc.

[clever mango]

I haven’t touched this core in like 2-3 months, so just felt booting some games and now a lot of them aren’t working or have missing sprites when they were just working fine the last time I played these games

^ I set extra sprites to in and that did nothing

[onyx ridge]

ah, looks like i had a bad save or something, deleting the save fixed it!

had all my video settings set to the defaults

[clever mango]

If someone knows how to fix this, lmk lol, this is bugging me out

[dry lynx]

Try deleting your NES configs and see if that fixes things

[clever mango]

Which configs do I have delete exactly?

[clever mango]

It’s baffling how this happened just because I added the taito F2 core to my mister

Or at least I think

[clever scarab]

Electronics mess up randomly, who knows

But delete your config files and try again, also replace your Mister.ini with a default one.

[clever mango]

Will do!

[clever mango]

Wait, but does that actually happen whenever you add a new core? just want to kinda investigate

[steel flume]

Some will argue it's not necessary but I delete my configs ever so often as a kind of maintenance. Mister evolves so fast it just helps start with fresh configs

[clever scarab]

That should never happen and I assume it’s completely unrelated.

Just a coincidence.

[clever mango]

PM’d ya for some help

It’s also saying “subcarrier unknown” and I’m not able to boot nes games anymore

[clever scarab]

Uhhhh

[clever mango]

So I think I downloaded the wrong NES.CFG file, anyone know where to get the right one that has 16 bytes?

[dry lynx]

Don’t download config files

That’s a recipe for disaster imo

Just nuke them and customise as you like

[clever mango]

Gotcha

[clever mango]

What does this mean? My mister.ini file is already on the root of my sd card media//fat//

[elfin flume]

Do you have the text 'subcarrier' in your mister.ini file, outside of a commeted line?

You may have to update your mister main file

[clever mango]

Let me check

Don’t know where to look for that “subcarrier text”

[elfin flume]

subcarrier is a brand new ini option added 2 days ago, that message means you have a setting in your mister.ini file that main doesn't recognize.
Since it's the new subcarrier option, this means your ini file it upto date, but your mister main is outdated.

[clever mango]

Where’s my mister main

[vestal blaze]

It’s the file on the root of your SD card, labeled “MiSTer”.

[elfin flume]

it's the file called MiSTer, it's in the same directory as your mister.ini file. You will need to grab the updated MiSTer binary from #unstable-nightlies right now as a new release with this is not out yet, or comment out the subcarrier line in your ini file

or just live with it because it's harmless and only appears for a few moments

[clever mango]

Got it!

[steep yew]

Also, I don’t think it will break anything to have it enabled

[clever scarab]

Oh wow dude is that it?

Thanks for figuring it out

Oops, I told him to grab the latest ini. That may have made things worse.

Oh well, at least now we know

[steep yew]

I’m honestly surprised it’s in there already.

But again, should be backwards compatible

[urban meadow]

Go Joe!

[waxen shoal]

replaced my NES caps with what looks like perfect soldering at least good enough

power light won’t come on

I wonder if I broke a trace and if so how

only the power switch does not have continuity

jumper to the rescue

[sand leaf]

looks like it’s come away

[waxen shoal]

What does it mean?

oh it’s slightly lifted

you’re right

[sand leaf]

flux, resolder and hope you ain’t torn the pad

[waxen shoal]

bodge wire will work though right

not sure I have it in me to desolder again without a tool

oh hold on that one

I see what you circled now

I did do that but it didn’t help @sand leaf

[tepid umbra]

Even if your NES is dead it's legacy will live on in your MiSTer. Don't be sad because you lost it, be happy because now it will always be with you. 🙏

[waxen shoal]

lol well I didn’t try the wire fix yet

don’t count it out yet

[hollow fjord]

Isn't there different revisions of NES boards? Maybe something different there?

[pseudo phoenix]

Hi does anyone of you kind folks know if you finish the mario bros 2 FDS version, it saves the unlocked level 9? Or do I need to save the game state in a slot?

[clever scarab]

Probably just save the game state to be extra sure

[frozen wing]

It only saves World A-D, and you have to beat it 8 times before it unlocks it at the title screen.

[pseudo phoenix]

@frozen wing what about world 9 ?

Oh I saw a video. Yikes

[frozen wing]

If you want direct access to World 9, you're going to need a save state. Just have a dedicated save slot of World 9

[pseudo phoenix]

@frozen wing got it. Mustn't forget

[waxen shoal]

the NES is dead

bought a new one

[tepid umbra]

You mean a new, 40 year old one.

Why do you hate mister so much?

[fierce estuary]

(and yourself)

[livid leaf]

Just found out about the Spirit Halloween NES game recently released.

https://www.spirithalloween.com/product/haunted-halloween-86-spirit-edition/280859.uts

Does this work on MiSTer?

[granite pivot]

I heard it works, but turns the MiSTer into a Spirit store when you play it.

(Honestly not sure if it works or not)

[waxen shoal]

I don’t hate mister but sometimes I just want that full feeling of using this thing.

[jade zenith]

both is good

[waxen sphinx]

I have mine

but I need to clean mine as I am having issue with mine

[granite pivot]

I have mine too, as well as an AV Famicom.

[steel flume]

I wish I had kept mine it quit working I didn't know any better..and from what I've learned nowit was probably a bad lockout chip.

[pseudo phoenix]

Little question. Do I need to trigger a save when completing super mario bros 2? After completing another run I didn't get my star 😰

[pseudo phoenix]

Got it figured out. It saves if you enter the mister menu after beating 8-4 and after you get to opening menu again. The second after got me

[graceful field]

Wow the smb1 speedrun world record run is now on a mister!

It is a very popular speedrunning game, so hope that helps increase its awareness in the speedrunning community!

[steel flume]

Who has the record now?

[graceful field]

Averge11

[steel flume]

Must have had another breakthrough on the game..I thought the pretty much had it maxed out.

Or as much as humanly possible

[clever scarab]

We all do since it’s MiSTer

We are all winners here

[graceful field]

I don’t think there are any new strategies, just a tremendous amount runs and practice.

And the inspiring glow of de10nano status leds

[steel flume]

The whole speedrun community will be on board soon especially if mister users start becoming record holders

[clever scarab]

I’m gonna get big mad if they all start asking for speedrun tools lol

[steel flume]

Yup..every core is gonna need Tas support 🤣🤣🤣

[clever scarab]

You joke but once in a while you see them pop up and ask for the most esoteric stuff. I appreciate them and they’re all incredibly cordial and understanding.

but I was just anticipating the less hardcore bandwagon types who might pop up later. The ones who don’t get that MiSTer’s priority is accuracy to original hardware and everything else is tertiary (not even secondary).

[steel flume]

Someone made a version of the nes core that could play TAS files but I think it was something they were just playing with..never added it to main

[clever scarab]

That shit is super cool. It’s all open source anyways.

[steel flume]

I like playing the way I played on the original consoles. I don't even care for save states. It annoys me when attempting to add stuff like that starts breaking other stuff. I like msu-1 on snes that's probably the 1 exception

[clever scarab]

Yes, additional features should never break things. See the deprecated Genesis core and its extra sprites option. Broke a lot of games and while the intention was good, shouldn’t have been implemented.

my first experience with MiSTer was using the Genesis core and having the Sonic title screen appear broken. Absolutely worst first impression with retro gaming hardware I’ve had.

[twin siren]

why did you delete your statement that it was "an awful feature"?

i see your every move, robbo

[clever scarab]

Because that came across as inflammatory and I realized the concept of extra sprites is wonderful so calling it an awful feature wasn’t correct, I just have issues with its implementation

[twin siren]

you will apologize two hundred times

[tribal hinge]

The MiSTeR was trying to warn you about a life of Sonic

[clever scarab]

My opinions can come across as overly strong and I’m trying to be better about it

[twin siren]

i'm very sensitive to your opinions. last night i cried myself to sleep.

[clever scarab]

YEAH OK

[steel flume]

Was that where sonic would appear on top of the ring he was supposed to be inside of..like it was layered wrong?

[clever scarab]

I think he was missing his entire half body? lol

[graceful field]

In all seriousness, I'm on the opposite side trying to talk more speedrunners into using the mister .

At least for the NES core, the biggest battle has been convincing speedrunners to accept the accuracy. If they don't trust that it is matching original hardware it doesn't get on the boards. A good example was the KIL command being properly implemented recently for more accuracy even though it has value for non-speedrun gameplay. I think the mister is such a great combo for speedrunning since the accuracy is great combined with great input lag. As original systems get older and older, I think this is the best place for speedrunners to go.

There are certainly other issues - savestates in particular is a thorny issue. I'm happy with savestates, but I know a lot of other runners who are really used to other workflows on the everdrive that makes it hard to switch. Ultimately, it is a challenge to have more advanced controls without making the product a mess (I may be in the minority, but I love how few knobs there are and how simple the current menu setup is). Hopefully there will be great answers over the next few years and the community keeps expanding! ❤️

[clever scarab]

Yeah, saving on the MiSTer isn't great but right not it is what it is.

Also love your attitude, thank you.

[mint lichen]

I've run over 200 games on MiSTer, on a huge variety of systems, that was the big appeal for me. But I feel like most people that only stick to NES have no real reason to switch, especially at the old price. With MiSTer Pi prices I could see more people trying it. I mostly like the convenience of the video out for capture along with accuracy.

I don't submit to boards any more so that side doesn't affect me. I just wish I could have 99 save states, I don't see how that would make it much more complicated in the menu. For systems with no save states I just practice on emu then jump over for runs.

[graceful field]

Your name is familiar !

I would love to find a way to make the savestate system more approachable. It's where I lose a lot of people 😞 .

That being said, I have a setup that works really well for me.

1. I clone the roms to make named savestates for different levels or areas. I name the rom what I want (e.g. smb1_8_4.rom). and can use directories if helpful
2. I built a tool that I've given to a few other runners (can give to you if interested). May try to open source it at some point. I have a system that I personally like a lot (though it may be a little complicated). It basically opens up a UI on your computer that connects to the mister and shows all of your roms. It then lets you rename or "split them" into multiple named roms. Behind the scenes it also clones the savestates.
3. I got a bootpedal with programmable keys. One creates a save and one loads is.

The combo has been really effective for me.

If curious, here is a clip of an older version of it (made some minor improvements since then like supporting more cores and auto finding the mister): https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2004185171

I agree that if you are just playing nes on an original system and no other consoles original hardware can be great, but especially if they are streaming it can add up if they are starting from nothing (everdrive for save states and practice roms, original console, maybe wanting to rgb mod it, getting something like retrotink or ossc etc if not playing on crt).

[glacial turtle]

I didn't appreciate the core was accurate enough to speed run on, that's really good to hear, a stamp of approval.

[mint lichen]

I have seen your setup before, it's neat but not sure I need it, I'm fine just copying the ROM a few times if I need it for NES. But when you get to like PS1 saves states, you have to copy and swap them in and out if you want them, copying the game doesn't make sense for such large stuff.

[graceful field]

Agreed it falls over for things like cds 😥

[clever scarab]

Yeah, basically you need to get used to opening the core menu when you’re done and not just shutting off the system. That’s the only hangup, so I just tell people to always exit back to the main menu when they’re done.

[steel flume]

I just keep my mister far enough away from me coz I'm lazy and won't get up to press a button which means I gotta use the menu

[hidden isle]

I’ve run games on both mister and nes with everdrive and unfortunately I find the everdrive way way more ergonomic for save state management. If I could get 98 save state slots on the mister I’d sell my famicom tomorrow.

[clever scarab]

What do you need 98 save states per game for?

Or are the save states global and there’s a hard limit on how many you can have total?

[hidden isle]

Per game. This is for speedrunning. For a game like Zelda I want to be able to practice tricky rooms or bosses at any time.

[clever scarab]

oh wow yeah I can see that

I imagine being able to name them too would be helpful

[hidden isle]

It would but it’s not necessary. I just keep a document open with the names/numbers and refer to it when I need to load something.

[clever scarab]

What’s the limit on MiSTer?

[hidden isle]

4 per game

Well, per rom

So people can make multiple copies of a rom

I still find it not ideal, even but some people don’t mind it.

[clever scarab]

I wonder why there’s a limit. Maybe a memory constraint of the menu system, maybe it’s for navigation purposes, or probably someone didn’t think people would need more than 4.

[hasty river]

As someone who uses them very casually (usually just to continue in a game that doesn't have saves) I find 4 plenty but I can see where some would need more

[fierce estuary]

it's the 80/20 rule

you dont design things for the fringe uses, you design it for the 80%

if you have to decrease the UX for the 80% to cater to some niche needs, then you're doing it wrong

[graceful field]

I agree with the philosophy. I think the simplicity of the mister menu system and most things "just work" without lots of fiddling once you get the core setup right is one of the systems strongest points. I've gotten lost in a lot of software emulators with all the little knobs exposed as just standard things in the menu system. Even on mister, some cores have felt a little noisy/confusing relative to the nes one when it comes to "just work like original hardware" with their menu structure an knobs.

At the same time, I do think there is probably an intuitive yet better way to handle savestate interactions that we just haven't found.

[clever scarab]

Damn dude, I love your perspective.

Sorry, just wanted to call out how understanding that response was.

[solar ferry]

I swear it's too easy to screw yourself over in retroarch and not know how

[hasty river]

Retroarch has several problems that are key to its UI failure. One is that there are several places where you go for "options" and they all have variations on the word option for their title. You also have several places to save things like defaults. The second problem I see being major is that the button binding is handled poorly. Initial binding is fine but when you go to remap for a core it adds an entire secondary layer over the main mapping and you literally have to imagine three button maps to decide how to set them

I don't know why they can't just give you a prompt for remap in a core like they do for the main remap, i.e. "Press the button you want for B"

instead I map B to X in main then go into core remap and remember that B is mapped to X and now I want it mapped to Y etc.
When you have a controller like N64 with C buttons it is a huge headache

[solar ferry]

Try operating the menus with an Xbox 360 doad and not accidentally pressing left or right toggling God knows what

The fact that we have to press a button to change an option (for the most part) in MiSTer is infinitely superior

Don't believe I've ever accidentally changed a setting on MiSTer

[hidden isle]

If I’m part of the 20% and the mister is not for my main use case then that’s fine. Unfortunate for me but maybe not unfortunate for the general population.

It would be great if there was a way to make me happy as well, but if not, oh well lol

[elfin flume]

Button mapping is a huge reason I don't use retroarch, it's the worst UI experience they could have thought of, and needs to be completely redone.

[hasty river]

You said it

[glacial turtle]

Found this hunting through boxes. Mapper wen?

[vale trout]

This seems like something you might be able to do with a script on the Linux side. Run a script that swaps your saves with the set you want.

You could even assign names that way, depending on how complex you want to make it.

[hidden isle]

I've looked into that! I ran into a stumbling block when I found out the saves are only "loaded" from the file when the game is booted. Replacing the files after that from the linux side doesn't affect what states will actually get loaded by the load state hotkeys or menu options.

There might be a way to copy the states directly into the core's like "working memory" from the linux side but that is beyond my technical knowledge/expertise unfortunately

But yeah, I've had the same idea. Having a program that I run locally that lets me just shoot states over ssh at runtime would be really neat. Have them named on "my end" and just get placed into the right spot automatically.

[hidden isle]

Anyway this is probably not the right place for this conversation and I apologize for taking up as much vertical space as I have already. Anyone who wants to continue it elsewhere feel free to ping me 🙂

[slow mulch]

So the NES core is less accurate than some software emulators... My life is a Lie

https://youtu.be/oYjYmSniQyM?t=12m42s

[glacial turtle]

Last one is MiSTer

[blissful prairie]

So place 3 behind Mesen and Neshawk (not counting TriCNES because that was handcrafted to pass all tests).

[steep yew]

Nt mini noir (stolen from the fpga discord)

[fierce estuary]

i've never heard of tricnes

I could probably fix a bunch of those really fast because they are just pedantic

like that dummy read open bus thing

[steep yew]

This is how moondandy gets you. Points out something trivial that you can fix and then suddenly you’re awake at 2am testing the lynx48 core to make sure the framework update built ok

Classic moondandy

[blissful prairie]

Me neither. Neshawk didn't cross my ways as well

[urban meadow]

Well that's just dandy.

[vestal blaze]

Yeah, this just came up in my recommended feed, as well.

Probably not a bad idea to also try this test ROM on multiple models of original FC/NES hardware, to verify if all original consoles also pass all tests here.

[glacial turtle]

I haven't watched the whole video, does the guy cover these on original hardware?

[dreamy marten]

Yup yup yup

[vestal blaze]

Not that I saw in the video. He off-handedly mentions that it recreates the behavior of the most common chip revision, which makes me think that some of these behaviors might vary between revisions.

[fierce estuary]

well the good news is none of those tests that fail are likely to impact any known thing

[glacial turtle]

You got a build of your WIP PPU update you could test against and see if that fixes those ones?

[fierce estuary]

oh, tricnes is an emulator coincidentally written by the same person who made the test rom

[glacial turtle]

Hah, it all comes together

Hmm, Mame isn't on that list

[fierce estuary]

it's not going to be very high

I wonder what dummy reads should update the data bus with?

wire apu_cs = addr >= 'h4000 && addr < 'h4018;
wire joypad1_cs = (addr == 'h4016);
wire joypad2_cs = (addr == 'h4017);

I dunno why it's having issues with that one, though it should more accurately be

wire apu_cs = addr[15:5] == 'b0100_0000_000;;

[clever scarab]

lol

[dreamy marten]

Aren't those like $800?

[clever scarab]

marketing worked wonders for them in the early days

[fierce estuary]

oh maybe they're tricking something else into writing for the bus for that test, and since the APU is literally inside the CPU it can't possibly be impacted by the external address bus

hrm

no it uses cpu read and write

that one really confuses me

it's not especially important though since I dont think it really happens

the 2004/oam corruption is emulated, it's used in huge insect

but probably not in a way that makes that test happy

also micro machines

im pretty happy with the way things failed

the DMA is the only thing there that would be really good to fix

[clever scarab]

TriCNES isn't much of an emulator, not sure why it's even being tested - https://github.com/100thCoin/TriCNES

some TAS tool

also doesn't do audio? Like wat

[fierce estuary]

that test oddly lacks a lot of the ppu address conflicts with the scroll registers which are important

it's probably a tool for investigating speedruns

[clever scarab]

the thing I hate about these tests is that they're so arbitrary

[fierce estuary]

which has it's own place, and it's important that such a tool be accurate

some of these are really really pedantic though

[clever scarab]

but I imagine useless if you just want to play the games

[fierce estuary]

and not even true on all hardware models

well, people can feel good that mister did that well

you know you're Playing with Power ™

[clever scarab]

I feel good

except for the DMA thing

[dreamy marten]

I'm curious if different nes/fam revisions have different scores

[fierce estuary]

the DMA thing isnt really stuff you're going to encounter, it mostly has to do with a hardware error that occurs if you try to poll controllers at the same time as a DMA is active, which IS emulated

but the timing of how it resolves seems to not please the tests

there's also a bit of a limitation because of how we use sdram on the core that data isnt returned as early as that test wants it to be I think

[fierce estuary]

im pretty ssure an OG famicom would not pass all the tests

one of the early model ones

[wild wagon]

the square button one

would be really cool to see someone get one of those extra early runs with the grey controller cables

document the performance on that

[covert crypt]

I thought the NES core was supposed to be more accurate than Shigeru Miyamoto's childhood Famicom

[fierce estuary]

I think it is

[wild wagon]

only one way to find out

[fierce estuary]

someone break into his house and steal his famicom

we're testing this. for science.

[wild wagon]

if not, Nintendo HQ might have it in their archives somewhere

could pick up a few more things while there

[dreamy marten]

Great we have a volunteer!

[fierce estuary]

it's probably suspended in a vat in the middle of a vault like Scrooge McDuck's lucky dime

[wild wagon]

it's framed like Mr. Krab's dollar

[fierce estuary]

who is Mr. Krab?

[wild wagon]

good point

[blissful prairie]

NTSC Revision G NES is the target of the test. Other revisions or even Famicoms will fail some tests.

[steep yew]

imagine a world where we didn't start sentences with "I mean"

[blissful prairie]

https://github.com/TASEmulators/BizHawk/commit/ff8a2bdf22d8c18ac77615df681c22146eac2316

I found out that NEShawk is the NES module of Bizhawk and I had a quick look at their GitHub History

Some of the potential test fails were plugged in advance as well some weeks ago. So that emulator looks probably better than it is.

So realistically MiSTer might be just behind MESEN in terms of test coverage.

[glacial turtle]

He mentions some test about translucent background pixels or something that fails, near the end of the video

[fierce estuary]

I mean, why would you even want that?

one of the tests out there tests the default palette color

[clever scarab]

I mean, does it really matter if the games play perfectly?

[fierce estuary]

which is well documented to vary from console to console, that particulr guy who made the test said the default color should be puke green

I adamantly refuse to use puke green for the purpose of the test and use the lovely shade of grey instead (which is what MY childhood nes had)

[clever scarab]

Is the test flawed?

[fierce estuary]

it's a meaningless test since the default palette color only impacts the color of the reset screen pretty much

and it's not even consistent on real hardware

[glacial turtle]

You should probably raise a ticket telling him this

Call him out if his tests are bunk

[fierce estuary]

a lot of these tests are pedantic, they are not known to be meaninful under any circumstance for any game

he himself was calling out that some tests were pedantic

but left that weird "but what iffffff....?????" at the end

I can't really disprove a negative so

maybe cheetamen 2 implicity relies on DMA accidentally triggering a register read

the world may never know

[blissful prairie]

Well, if some of these tests contribute to a otentially even better MiSTer, I am glad that those exist.

[fierce estuary]

I dont think any of them will impact any gameplay ever

however it might make it pass tests better

[clever scarab]

Still worried about the DMA

[fierce estuary]

the DMA works fine robby

it's DMA quirks

like doing weird stuff with the DMA

[clever scarab]

I’m just unsure you know

[blissful prairie]

Well, if it doesn't help gaming per se, I welcome the warm fuzzy feeling that it is (theoretically) closer.

[steep yew]

Robby has ptsdma

[clever scarab]

Now I’m playing Mario and haw concerns on how the DMA could impact it

[fierce estuary]

it's the most likely thing to happen in an actual gaming scenario though

[clever scarab]

Yeah

[fierce estuary]

I'd really like to see how many tests an OG famicom passes to see if we're more accurate than that

I think 85 is not a great number

anything that scored that should really revisit some stuff, though that's still enough to play most games without obvious issues

and of course it matters which things you are failing, not all of these tests are equally meaningful

the APU frame counter stuff is a little perplexing, because our core does pass several other frame counter tests

and it's not that complicated

[clever scarab]

Was playing Somari earlier today and I knew it felt off, maybe it was the DMA

[glacial turtle]

Someone on MDF or 240p TS Discord must have a Famicom ROM cart and an OG unit if nobody here does

[clever scarab]

Yeah I just have an NES with hundreds of games, no rom cart.

Original from 85 baybeeeeee

Still has my ninja turtle stickers on it lol

[steep yew]

No romcart?

Shameful.

[clever scarab]

I don’t buy rom carts, I’d rather put that money towards a game

Because I am dumb

[dreamy marten]

Prove it with the serial number

[steep yew]

And the last 4 of your social

[glacial turtle]

NES romcarts were always quite expensive, unless things have changed you had to pay a lot more on AliExpress than for other systems, and it would be missing a lot of mappers

Not sure how easy Famicom ones are to get now

[jade zenith]

the only cart worth getting these days is the everdrive n8 and n8 pro

everything else is either an ali knockoff or something ancient with support for far less mappers

[glacial turtle]

Actually looks like you can get an N8 clone cheap, not sure how good these are and how many mappers covered, but would be fine for chucking test ROMs on

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008463188037.html

[jade zenith]

i still don't know how much i'd trust putting it into my famicom

there's no reason to cheap out on flash carts anyway imo

[fierce estuary]

well, except money

[jade zenith]

i still don't see a point in risking it, even it's half the cost

[glacial turtle]

I bought a really cheap SMS one years ago, so I could run some test ROMs for Birdy on my OG hardware. That's all I ever used it for. I wouldn't have been able to justify doing that if there wasn't a clone for like £15.

Alas the tests it verified that the core fails on were never fixed

[jade zenith]

what tests fail on the core?

[fierce estuary]

@mellow dawn actually did the DMA on NES

I think it's an interaction between the DMA and APU mostly, and we have to clock the data at the end of the phi2 because of sdram speed

[glacial turtle]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/SMS_MiSTer/issues/113
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/SMS_MiSTer/issues/112

I checked Mega SG at the time and the one it failed got fixed after awhile so it passes them all

[jade zenith]

i see, interesting. thanks

[hasty trout]

I don't have an older Famicom to test unfortunately, but my rev H PPU/CPU AV Famicom even fails some of the tests

[fierce estuary]

what are those two all the way on the left

open bus and dummy write cycles it seems like

[glacial turtle]

That's interesting, does it give another screen saying what the fails are after?

[fierce estuary]

the match the position on the page

page 15 is PPU reset flag

that fails predictably because famicoms dont have that behavior

[hasty trout]

yeah the ones on the left are Dummy Write Cycles and Open Bus

[fierce estuary]

page 16 PPU register open bus and PPU palet ram quirks fail because you can't read from older famicoms

13 seems to be apu register deactivation

I think?

[hasty trout]

yup!

[fierce estuary]

the real old ones might fail a few more

later famicom av's will probably pass them all

reading through the details of all of them they are all pretty unlikely but kinda clear how to fix with small quirks

I think the best way to deal with the DMA is to actually put the APU, CPU, and DMA in the same container to isolate it from the rest of the core and keep us honest

right now we treat the cpu bus and system bus as the same thing which is pretty safe to do, but pedantically different

since in the real system DMA is part of the APU which is part of the CPU

[steep yew]

robby rn

https://tenor.com/bfupO.gif

[fierce estuary]

https://github.com/100thCoin/AccuracyCoin the readme of this explains the error codes for each test

[vestal blaze]

Here’s my front loader NES with an Everdrive N8 Pro flashcart:

[steep yew]

I guess tricnes is more accurate

[mellow dawn]

I did? I don"t remember doing that...

[fierce estuary]

im pretty sure you did

I know I didn't do DMA, so maybe it's just original

but im pretty sure you redid it at one point

[mellow dawn]

I guess it is possible. You sure it wasnt part of the original? Maybe I did redo it...

[dreamy marten]

That's 7 different exploits i could be running to cheat at speedrunning

[urban meadow]

You're all such wizards that you don't even remember all the cool stuff you do!

[fierce estuary]

it's worth noting some tests might need the "good" alignment of ppu and cpu

which means some percent of the time the nes wont pass them

[fierce estuary]

I know I do forget a lot of the stuff i've done

[vestal blaze]

Here’s my best results after some re-runs:

[steep yew]

same system?

[wild wagon]

my SCART-modded AV Famicom

[steep yew]

I hope neither of you are speedrunning on those

[wild wagon]

how about speedwalking

[steep yew]

https://tenor.com/bAyDn.gif

[wild wagon]

help my square button famicom crashed here

this program fucking sucks

apparently it actually passed 123

it just didn't display 124

oh wait wtf

running "implied dummy reads" crashed the first time on its own

but now it works?!

it only crashes now when i run the full test

[fierce estuary]

well

the point here is that real hardware isn't all that consistant

[wild wagon]

or perfect

[steep yew]

I'm excited for folks to cite this as a reason why emulation is better than FPGA. I love that debate - I find it endlessly fascinating

[wild wagon]

[frigid marten]

obviously i lack the technical knowledge/understanding, but it almost sounds it tests too many edge cases, especially since not all models can pass it in the first place.
the hardware being old as it is probably doesn't help either

at least partially

[wild wagon]

yep, parts will inevitably deteriorate and then require replacing

[frank hinge]

That some sort of test?

I wonder how my RetroUSB AVS FPGA nes would score.

[wild wagon]

https://github.com/100thCoin/AccuracyCoin

[frank hinge]

Unfortunately I don't have any sort of way of putting the test game on my AVS as I don't own a nes/Famicom everdrive

But pretty cool

[wild wagon]

Twas brought up in a different forum post but it was being brought up in comparison with this here core

[frank hinge]

I hope someone can test the RetroUSB AVS.

[wild wagon]

would be intriguing but I'm sure the results wouldn't please the guy that made the test

[main narwhal]

I have an AV famicom - could run the test if it helps?

[main narwhal]

ah already checked

[covert crypt]

Yours might be different though!

I'd run it on my NES but I don't have a flashcart. Or a NES.

[main narwhal]

maybe

this is on my AV Famicom (unmodified) with an Everdrive N8

[covert crypt]

Ah so your AV Famicom is more accurate than MP2E's

[main narwhal]

the serial number starts with HN if that means anything

[raw rune]

Hi! I just played Mega Man 2 on the core. First time I played it, so I cannot compare to a real NES. In Dr. Willy's fortress, the 4th boss battle is flickering like crazy. I understand that the NES was limited in the number of sprites it can show at the same time so I guess this is related to that. However I was wondering what is the supposed behaviour of the option extra sprite? Because in this specific instance it did not do anything for me.

[covert crypt]

Which boss is that?

[raw rune]

The one with the orbs shooting at you simultaneously.

[covert crypt]

That sounds about right

The extra sprites thing helps some cases more than others

Some games have their own built in methods of handling sprites and I'm not sure if the core's options can touch it

Retro Gaming Mechanics Explained did a good video explaining how Super Mario Bros 2's sprites work

[raw rune]

OK, thanks! That make sense. Now I am curious. I guess in the megaman compilations they got rid of this flickering? I should check

[main narwhal]

my RetroUSB AVS crashes during testing... around test 90 or so

this is using the latest 1.52 firmware

[covert crypt]

I'm not sure, there's a turbo mode that reduces slowdown on these collections but the flickering is something else

[raw rune]

Ah yes! I just checked and it is indeed still there apparently.

[jade zenith]

the rockman complete works collection on ps1 and the later anniversary collection on gc/ps2/xbox don't have the flicker 🙂

[half pasture]

So this test rom fails even on real hardware. Nice try, bub!

[main narwhal]

sure but it fails less

I wonder what the test would give for those System-on-a-chip Famiclones (like the Hyperkin Retron1)

[jade zenith]

was the retron 1 a noac?

[vestal blaze]

Pretty sure the RetroN HD was, at least. I already know that device is incredibly inaccurate from experience - enough so that many games won’t run - so it will be interesting to see.

[main narwhal]

yes both the AV and HD are NoaC

I suspect its the exact same chip as the super cheap Subor Famiclones from China... just using a different cart pinout

I don't expect them to be good, but they do have low latency and accept Everdrives. So I'm curious as to what this test will yield

[half pasture]

An accuracy test that fails on real hardware is useless. Prove me wrong! 😌

[lapis cipher]

Ha, I was wondering if folks would be discussing that AccuracyCoin test-rom. It's intresting enough I suppose

I was hoping folks had tried the test on real hardware, so thats neat

[vestal blaze]

Yeah - it’s weird he didn’t directly test this on real hardware in the video. The fact it fails there - and so inconsistently fails - makes it difficult to claim it determines much about an emulator’s accuracy.

However, the fact it shows differences and similarities between these are interesting. For instance, essentially everything so far has failed the PPU reset test, right (page 15)?

[solar ferry]

TIL MiSTer can be used for speedruns

[frank hinge]

Oh interesting

I wanted to see what the avs would report

As I couldn't test mine as I don't down an everdrive

[main narwhal]

looks like it

[solar ferry]

What flash cart did this guy use to run his tests on real hardware. Maybe there's the small chance there's variance in the flash carta

[clever scarab]

I hope the DMA can be looked at

[fierce estuary]

omg robby

[steep yew]

imagine if it scored 112 instead of 110

[fierce estuary]

right here you can see where the register select is coded to 0100_000_000 directly off the cpu's abus avoiding the dma abus

[copper bison]

wow thats crazy that multiple revisions of the console can behave differently. the only speedrun thing ive heard of is i think fds runs for either zelda 1 or zelda 2 (cant remember which) behave differently when you try to do a glitched run

for mister

[solar ferry]

Perhaps a revision toggle will make sense at some point if this difference of behavior actually matters

[scenic oracle]

Unrelated, but Randal Marsh, who did Pixel Nyan for his Genre Hopping video, made my and my podcast partner's avatars for our podcast. He placed second in a Cracked film challenge and I didn't need the camera we won (7D), so I sent it to him and he insisted on making us artwork. He's super cool.

[hidden isle]

I only have an AV famicom but if that would be useful someone toss me a rom and I can try it

[fierce estuary]

there's some important things to note

the NES does not work the same every time you boot it

[hidden isle]

I would say most speedrun communities at this point allow for mister runs on NES leaderboards.

[fierce estuary]

the PPU and CPU have independant clock alignments and can synchronize in 4 different ways, additionally, the CPU has a little every-other-cycle counter for the apu's clock which also can align differently half the time

[hidden isle]

Yup, I can attest to that. It's easily apparent in SMB1 and Zelda 2 gameplay. I have to hard power cycle my Famicom at the start of each play session until I get an alignment that isn't "buggy".

[fierce estuary]

those things all impact the behavior of the console

there is considered a "good" alignment that the console tends to have more than 25% of the time (some always)

[main narwhal]

the ROM is on the github page

[fierce estuary]

that's what emulators typically emulate because no games are known to have issues in that alignment, so it's de-facto considered the one it's supposed to have if it was better designed

[main narwhal]

I also wonder if using FDS would change results... but he'd have to code an FDS-specific ROM to even try that

[fierce estuary]

maybe some

im not sure how he tests the PPU writes before x cycles

because on a flash cart it will always be more than x cycles before it can even load the rom

it was added to prevent random bus values on power-on from accidentally writing to a register of the ppu, however, on an fpga that will never happen because we dont have analog electrical garbage on our wires

[hidden isle]

TriCNES was written by the creator of the video/test suite, so it seems quite natural it would be tested 🙂

[glacial turtle]

Maybe someone should invite this guy here, he would probably be interested in being involved in the discussion

[acoustic tangle]

#software-emulation message

He's here

Only he chose the wrong channel

@kind matrix Hi! We're all interested in discussing your rom, particularly how it behaves differently with each real hardware revision

[fierce estuary]

tricnes is a tool for working on TAS so it really needs to be accurate

it's not an emulator you'd play

it's for finding stuff that is possible in games in theory

often edge case stuff like clipping through blocks and stuff

[acoustic tangle]

I guess the question on a lot of non technical followers of this project probably is, could this be used for improving the mister's accuracy?

I imagine this would be a paretto principle situation where it would probably take more work to get the core to pass the remaining tests than it took to get the core to where it is now