NES/FC/FDS/Dendy

[glossy bridge]

Two button combo option

[hasty river]

Oh no

I mentioned it and got shot down lol

[glossy bridge]

I wonder why…

[hasty river]

Risk of people accidentally pressing it I guess

[glossy bridge]

Possible interference with other mister menu hotkeys or something?
Well if it’s accidental pressing, seems like it’d be cool to give the user the option to use either 2 or 3 buttons

[hasty river]

I agree! Lol

[fierce estuary]

it could be two button if we switch to a dedicated SS button like psx

but using existing buttons it's way too easy to accidentically hit with only two buttons

that would impact even people who dont want to use it

I thought it was already updated to use a ss button but if it's not we can do that

it's better than just using the existing ones

[timber lava]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/pull/403

[grand jewel]

Yes!

[blissful prairie]

He is so great. Always coming out of nowhere to fix the things most needed to the full surprise of all of us.

[grand jewel]

Kamen Rider Club is working now.
And some FDS games are auto switching sides without issue now (a cooldown time have been added, as some games don't like to be switched under a second).

[simple hedge]

Does this fix Estique?

[timber lava]

nope

[dim relic]

Will SS button be like PSX now?

[hasty river]

I guess I don't know how PSX is, you have dedicated load and save state buttons? I don't have any extra buttons on my snes controller

[dim relic]

It’s just one button on PSX instead of button+start. I use the mic button on DualSense+down to save and up to load.

I prefer that way but maybe others don’t.

[hasty river]

Yeah I don't have enough buttons lol

I just wish I could do select plus R shoulder or something.

[fierce estuary]

estique is probably a bad dump

[timber lava]

another PR for CPU part :
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/pull/404
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/issues/379

[waxen shoal]

finally getting a dogbone controller

tired of repetitive stress finger pad damage

[grand jewel]

I will take a look on the PR tomorrow.

[dreamy marten]

I hope the dogbone helps with your aches. I like the snes controller as an alternate nes pad.

[lean stag]

could never get used to the upward curve of the buttons on the dogbone pad

[hasty river]

Yeah it's odd plus the round part on the front and back

[steel flume]

I never used one but I feel they were just trying make the nes look more like a snes.

I do use my snes controller a lot for nes games on mister.

[hasty river]

They did but they made it worse lol

It's oval shaped from the side

[clever scarab]

Dog bones for days

[steel flume]

I guess you could say anyone that bought the new designed nes got boned 🤣🤣

[dreamy marten]

Yeah it was just a way to visually modernize the nes. That seemed obvious to me as a kid. Over time it has been romanticized.

[jaunty pier]

Am I on SNES?

[fierce estuary]

you probably should be

[jaunty pier]

I am!

Though not officially...

It's not technically Nintendo licensed >.>

But I was in that era!

[grand jewel]

KIL opcode added (PR from here #1091056042667937944 message)
EDIT : That's just a demand for some specific speedruns.
For testing purposes only, you are better off with the 2025-01-13 build.

[hasty river]

The what now

[lean stag]

kill...

[fierce estuary]

you will notice exactly nothing because it's never used

it just breaks the cpu

but I guess it's technically there, so why not

[warm galleon]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/issues/379 - not officially used in a game, but inadvertently used by speedrunners I guess
However, one area where this is quite relevant is in Speedruns making use of an ACE exploit, like Super Mario Bros. 3 Any% or Castlevania Any% w/ ACE. These runs involve setups that make use of game bugs that shift the Program Counter within RAM, where a payload can be placed to warp directly to the end credits, for example. In certain cases, depending on luck or player execution, a STP opcode may be encountered. If a platform is not emulating the behavior of this opcode correctly, it may cause the ACE to work in situations where it wouldn't on original hardware.

so manipulating the PC within RAM to run an unofficial opcode instead lol, sick

[fierce estuary]

sure. okay.

though im pretty sure those exploits already work, i've seen them work

the smb3 one at least

[mellow dawn]

Actually, I think the complaint was some people were doing this to speedrun, and were succeeding when they should fail because the cpu wasnt halting. Essentially they were going faster than they should be able to by ignoring the kill instructions

[graceful field]

Thanks @timber lava , this CR is really appreciated! It may not seem like much, but things like this really help to get more adoption in the speedrunning community. I've personally been so excited seeing this growth and am grateful for fixes like this to fight some FUD in the nes speedrunning community. I may have to celebrate by submitting an ace% run in the castlevania category on my mister now (fyi @sbdwolf)

[graceful field]

Exactly. This allows speedrunners to execute different glitches that won't work on original hardware since the system will just freeze up.

Here is a good example of what I mean. This is a clip of me a few years ago teaching people about castlevania glitches. In the process something really weird happened. We were all excited that it may be a wrong warp possibility, but after a lot of searching, it seems this codepath very likely would have hit a kill opcode on original hardware: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1632474297?t=00h34m27s

[fierce estuary]

alright well, there you go. kil

I didnt add it

im just saying it's there now 🙂

accuracy is accuracy

[blissful prairie]

Warts and all 😉

[lethal dragon]

👋 I'm a moderator from smb3 and past MISTer owner. I'd like to unban mister, but the (admittedly arbitrary) goal post I'd like first is for this to be merged and in official releases. Maybe a week or two for confidence? Good support/documentation and accessibility and yadda yadda 😅 . Thanks for considering it :) 🎉
(if it does go in and is unbanned please tell me if you have to revert it 😅 )

[warm galleon]

login to github and watch the repo, it will alert you when there are new issues, PR's, etc... also our #news channel will post when the new release comes out. we aren't going to typically go out of our way to inform every speedrunning community and person manually whenever there are changes

[lethal dragon]

great, thanks for the help! that was a request for the folks who wrote it or are interested (simplistic, maybe sbdwolf) in my community... I wouldn't expect y'all to tell me. similarly, it's not practical for me to watch repos at that granularity for every project I've been interested in either 😅. sorry for being unclear.

[warm galleon]

no worries!

[runic sky]

thanks for that implementation!

[clever scarab]

Thanks for joining us and it’s awesome the MiSTer can be used for your community!

[blissful prairie]

Sorg just merged the KIL opcode emulation

[fierce estuary]

he's just asking paul if there's any more forthcoming changes before he does a release

[clever scarab]

When is Sorg merging the aubergine Mario sky?

[hasty river]

https://tenor.com/view/enhailed-gif-25134466

[hot wolf]

Typo back again
Advanced > Video Dijitter

Get kuba on the case

[blissful prairie]

@dreamy hornet , we officially summon you

[dreamy hornet]

https://tenor.com/view/rogerroger-star-wars-gif-24538011

[jaunty pier]

There's no Roger here

[dreamy marten]

Dijitter is a better spelling

[steep yew]

you have to rub the lamp and it will sync 3 frames

[hot wolf]

😂

[grand jewel]

For people enjoying a video DEJITTER and using a PERIPHERAL.

[clever scarab]

Is that spelling corrections lol

[grand jewel]

Yes.

🤣

[dreamy hornet]

❤️

https://tenor.com/view/robert-redford-jeremiah-johnson-nodding-yes-nod-of-approval-gif-21066931

[clever scarab]

lol that’s awesome

[hasty river]

It was literally unusable thank you

[simple hedge]

I received my NES cart and dumped it using Retroblaster. Interestingly, I don't get the black lines, but unfortunately there's another problem. It plays at the wrong speed. It was flagged as NTSC but the music and sound are only correct if I change the flag to PAL. Don't really understand that. I am by no means an expert on NES dumping. I'm open to suggestions for sure 🙂

[fierce estuary]

so you dumped the PAL version

[simple hedge]

Not sure. I purchased the English NES cart

and it plays correctly on my NES

[fierce estuary]

the way this mapper works it is has two complete copies of the game on the ROM, and NTSC and a PAL version, it somehow auto-decides which bank to use

[simple hedge]

top loader

[fierce estuary]

it's not mmc3 prely

[simple hedge]

ahh

[fierce estuary]

purely

so, it seems you got the PAL chunk of it booting

[simple hedge]

wonder if the header can somehow be tweaked to fix it ?

[fierce estuary]

how big is the file

[simple hedge]

513k

[fierce estuary]

you might be able to split it in half depending on if you dumped the whole thing

in reality, the mapper needs to be implemented

which is basically mmc3 plus the little extra that deicides the bank

[simple hedge]

you wanna take a look? This is a bit over my head honestly

[fierce estuary]

ill wait for the mapper to be finalized before I do anything with it

[simple hedge]

ok sure

I'm tempted to just flag it as PAL and be happy lol

[simple hedge]

How would I go about splitting it in half? Is there a tool for that?

[fierce estuary]

a hex editor

you'd have to fix the header too

[simple hedge]

oh

[fierce estuary]

the one with the lines though was the Japanese version

[half pasture]

Is anyone working on the mapper?

[latent breach]

I played a little bit of Estique and it’s pretty fun…I think I have the “bad” dump, but it was totally playable still

[glacial turtle]

Is Estique a new cart release?

[grand jewel]

Yes, from last month.

My friends at Broke Studio published the game.

#games-and-patches message

[clever scarab]

It looks really cool - https://www.brokestudio.fr/product/chouyoku-senki-estique-fc/

Good art

[main moss]

Anyone know what happened here? Rest of the game was fine

[half pasture]

Accidentally knocked the cartridge? 🙃

[median whale]

Do a save state right there, reboot, come back and see if it's still borked

[inland blade]

If you are using Villena's RAM, that's what happened

[half pasture]

It might be worthy to post memtest results

[main moss]

I got my sdram from misteraddons. In the sdram test, the red number is stable when the yellow number is 140. That's not bad, right?

[half pasture]

MisterAddons stuff are the real deal. You should be fine. Very interesting bug though

[steep yew]

yup, thats good

Pork makes good shit

[grand jewel]

Celeste NES is really nice so far.
I've recompiled the last version from today, some physics were not perfect on the demo one.

[rocky bison]

hey, i need some help with an issue. i'm having trouble getting a FF3 translation to run on the NES core. this one in particular: https://www.romhacking.net/translations/1590/
when booting it, i'm getting the following screen:

the readme of the translation also has the following info:

In order to make the translation as high-quality as possible, the patch
takes the approach of Dragon Quest/Warrior IV and expands the ROM size to
1MByte; unfortunately, some emulators don't support this type of ROM
correctly. When the ROM starts, it checks whether the emulator can handle
1MB ROMs, and displays an error screen if not. If you see the error, ask
the author of your emulator to fix MMC3 support for 1MB ROMs.

is there anything that can be done to make this playable on the MiSTer?

[dreamy marten]

Thank you. Is that this one? https://github.com/iProgramMC/CelesteNES/releases/tag/demo-1.00

[grand jewel]

Absolutely.

[hasty river]

How do you play it on snes?

[lost plume]

There’s the Chaos Rush translation that keeps the ROM at 512k, no expansion needed

https://www.romhacking.net/translations/4760/

I assume there’s a reason you want to use this 1M version though

[rocky bison]

yeah, i wanted to use ad0220's translation. i'm familiar with the other translations. the one by Chaos Rush relies too heavily on the DS remake script and uses modern terminology. it also has some bugs that were never fixed according to the thread

[lost plume]

Ironically I’m going through FF1 at the moment and there’s just so many versions of these games with various gameplay tweaks, translations etc it’s an absolute minefield working out which versions to actually play!

On the topic of 1M MMC3 I’d be intrigued if that gets implemented, given the MiSTer aims for hardware recreation as close as possible and as the OG NES can’t handle MMC3 ROMs above 512k it’d kinda go against that philosophy.

[mellow dawn]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/blob/master/rtl/mappers/MMC3.sv#L719

[topaz moon]

if (!oversized) prgsel[7:6] = 2'b00;

[mellow dawn]

Could probably change that and allow oversized to check the PRG size, in addition to mapper 268 currently.

[tribal hinge]

did you (or anyone else) here try out celeste mario zap and dash? https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/7915/
i had such a good time w/this game

[latent breach]

yes! It’s super fun. I need to play more of it

[hidden isle]

Does anyone have thoughts on which palette is closest to the NESRGB "Improved" palette? I was watching a zelda 2 speedrunner last night and asked what his setup was like to get the colors he was getting and that's the hardware/setting he said he has. Here's a link to some footage with some of the more notable colors imo: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2363058865?t=00h04m20s

The NESRGB website says Improved is based on FCEUX, but it doesn't really look like that for me when I turn on the FCEUX palette

[fierce estuary]

fceux palette generally kinda sucks. I dunno what that one is but it uses very yellowy yellows and no desaturation

try my full saturation one and it'll be fairly close

[hasty river]

try Sony CXA

[livid leaf]

Still kind of weird how the NES technically can't output yellow. The closest is either a more dull beige yellow or that deeper cheddar yellow.

[fierce estuary]

nes yellow is greenish

I mean it's just dividing up the color wheel evenly, it's gonna have to fudge some

[dreamy marten]

This error message looks pretty yellow $7D #1091056042667937944 message

[hidden isle]

Thanks, I'll give that a try!

[rocky bison]

what would be the best way to get this implemented? should i make a post on github?

[mellow dawn]

Get someone to build and test this one line change https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/pull/406

[steep yew]

^^ https://github.com/MiSTer-unstable-nightlies/NES_MiSTer/releases/download/unstable-builds/NES_unstable_20250131_136d93.rbf

[mellow dawn]

Oh sorg merged it already. Probably should have waited on the pr...Has any one tried it yet?

[steep yew]

I’m not sure I understand the issue enough to test it properly (I don’t know what could break with the change). I built it so @rocky bison could give it a spin

[steel flume]

I was about to say the same thing I really dont understand what it does enough to test it. Im guessing its only useful for certain roms.

[mellow dawn]

Presumably, this error goes away

[steep yew]

could other things break tho?

[mellow dawn]

not likely. code in the cart module already wraps addresses outside the prg size. If it asks for prg address at 512KB+ but the prg size is only 512KB it wraps it back to the first 512KB. Basically limiting it in the mapper does nothing if the size is 512 or less because it is already limited in the cart module.

[steep yew]

Someone is going to have to send me a translated rom because I don't like FF3 that much :p

I am sure it's fine but also, I don't like FF3 that much

[rocky bison]

just tested this core, and now it boots! thanks a lot!

[rocky bison]

yeah i had the same warning 😅 from what i understand it's the patch tool. i patched it in a VM just to be safe

[steep yew]

yeah, the website warned against as much. Ive been got once by "safe" files, never again

[rocky bison]

i can drop the patched rom here if you want to do further testing. but i'm not sure if that's allowed

but for now i can just use your core file. and i'd imagine it will get added to the main build in the future?

[steep yew]

It got merged this morning. It’s in the official unstable build now

Next NES update will have it

[rocky bison]

ahh awesome! thanks

[wet moat]

Been playing solar jetman on nes. Out of nowhere the game shows corruption in the sprites when you are in the mothership. I replaced the rom and still no change. Did I find a new bug in the core?

game works flawlessly otherwise

I played this for hundreds of hours before this started happening

[fierce estuary]

seems unlikely to be a core bug, if anything that would be a mapper bug but more likely the rom header is wrong

[mellow dawn]

Works ok for me. One of my favorites. Took a while to beat in my youth when only renting it.

Note that there are passwords that can create glitches...

Glitch Level
On the password screen, type in MMMMMMMMMMMM. It will take you to a shop where there are glitched items, then an oddly colored version of Planet 5 titled U©, a glitched bonus stage, and finally Planet 12. You will have 666666 points, 6 lives and 6 jetpods. All items in the shop will be available, and you will start with the Italian racing pod.
Contributed By: Mr_A24 5 0

[warm galleon]

One of my favorites from my youth as well

[fierce estuary]

I also like that one and it seems to work fine for me as well

[inland blade]

If you use Antonio Villena's RAM, that could cause that kind of bugs for me

[warm galleon]

on the nes core? interesting

don't think i've heard any reports of NES core issues tied to the 4chip sdram yet

[inland blade]

I had core issues with SNES and MegaDrive on the 4C RAM, yes.
I told Antonio publicly on the spanish MiSTer FPGA group he rules with an iron first, and I got banned.
So he continued selling faulty RAM to this day or at least recently.
When people finds out, it's been months since they bought the RAM, so the villain gets another sell.

Stay away from his products.

[fierce estuary]

we've told people for like, years that ram was bad

I think they just said we hated spanish people or something

[inland blade]

I am spanish. And yes, that RAM is bad, has been for years, and the person selling it is dishonest.

In other words, you were right from the beginning. But most frightening part of the story is how Antonio bans people for telling other people about these problems...

[fierce estuary]

not surprised

he's always been pretty dishonest

like when sorg asked him to evalutate some 64mb ram he was considering for use with neogeo, instead he took the design and started selling it when it wasn't even finalized yet

of course we ultimately went with 128mb instead so all those people with 64mb got just crappy ram

[inland blade]

He did a similar thing with the ZX-UNO design...
That person has been damaging the FPGA scene for years now. I hope he can't leech it anymore due to recent cheaper and more robust developments by Taki and finally gets what he deserves.

Using Sorg's work like that... It's such an ugly thing to do

[steel flume]

I used to use some of his cases..I even backed away from that when I seen how toxic he was.

[steep yew]

dude seems like a real bummer

[warm galleon]

Sorry to laugh but it makes me chuckle that he banned you for pointing out the flaws in his 4chip ram (which he only did to shave a couple bucks off cost for himself)

[inland blade]

In fact, I find it so immensely stupid and evil that I find it kinda funny too

So I understand what you mean

[steel flume]

If he cant take criticism he probably did you a favor by banning you.

[clever scarab]

The most important lesson as a creator is learning how to gracefully receive criticism and separating critique of the product from critique of yourself.

It’s not that easy honestly but there’s no winning when lashing out against criticism. Even criticism meant vindictively. Which of course wasn’t this case but it does happen.

But even though I fully understand that, banning someone for calling out faults in your product is an awful move. It shows lack of confidence in your product and being petty enough to silence people who are only trying to help.

[dry lynx]

Good advice. I should copy that and send it to all junior devs when they start doing code review

So many really struggle at first with giving and receiving feedback

[tepid umbra]

That's why you call me a vocal minority when I express my disgust with lootboxes, microtransactions and games as a service?

[supple ermine]

I don't think a company that does those things counts as a creator. They aren't putting in lootboxes for some artistic reason.

[clever scarab]

Yes

[faint osprey]

is original composite video output (not encoded from an RGB palette, but generated by the simulated PPU) available in the NES core? I remember a year or two ago someone saying this was possible but low priority back then, but now it's easier than ever to output cvbs (and yc) from the mister

[fierce estuary]

no, and the way composite is generally implemented it's not super possible

the ppu generates the pre-mixed signal but on mister iirc it has to be output as seperate components

fortunately it's pointless, so there's that

[twin siren]

help, the ground in zelda 1 is piss yellow

[timber lava]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/pull/408

[urban meadow]

They used those golden showers to color the cartridge.

[latent breach]

Paul is really an angel doing the lord’s work

[faint osprey]

I wouldn't quite agree it's pointless (there's a reason I'm interested obviously, and could make a case for it but will spare you lol)

but it's good to know it's not technically feasible and I should stop hoping for it on mister

[clever scarab]

She just has just a different perspective but means no ill-intent. Fortunately you can get a decent reproduction of a composite signal using the MiSTer’s built-in shaders and filters.

[faint osprey]

yeah of course, the point is well taken

a decent reproduction can be decent, but if you're already simulating the chips so well you could go all the way and output "the real thing", if only for preservation purposes if you want to set taste differences aside

[sweet sparrow]

paulb-nl saves... wherever he damn well pleases

[hazy marsh]

Did FDS games not support save states before?

[fierce estuary]

save states are kind of on a per mapper basis and that one wasn't added

[urban meadow]

So it was mapped to the mapper like a wrapper.

||I tried.||

[mellow dawn]

If I counted correctly only 21 of 140 implemented mappers are missing save states. FDS is likely the only noteworthy one of that group. It is probably the most complicated mapper which is why it hadn't been done yet. Thanks, Paul

[calm jay]

Paul strikes again

[dire lodge]

What do you think of this @fierce estuary ?

I keep wondering if chroma crosstalk is meant to be needless or something to maybe explore on a new take on an NES-core if someone were ever to do it

(Sorry if this sounds vaguely worded)

[fierce estuary]

chroma-luma garbage was never used intentionally on the NES for anything because it's inconsistent with the timing that the nes uses, unlike, say, 7800

or genesis

it's possible some people guess that something might be intentional like the distortion on the gremlins rug, but there's no evidence it is

nor does it seem particularly desireable

[blissful prairie]

Where is this discussion from? I want to read more about that "shining star" effect on PAL Gradius (I grew up with that).

[dire lodge]

https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?t=2713

[dire lodge]

Okkay that makes sense~

[half pasture]

Chroma Luma garbage wen

[oak egret]

It’s Sonic waterfall rainbows all over again.

[clever scarab]

Mario’s sky is vermillion

[clever scarab]

It’s chartruese!

[oak egret]

And now we fight.

[steel flume]

We could probably all share screenshots and depending on our tvs and mister settings they would all look different.

[fierce estuary]

sigh. periwinkle.

[steep yew]

Mario Bros. Sky is old news. Wood Man Tree Jitter is the new hotness

[jaunty pier]

I thought it was blue?

[livid leaf]

I'm going to say the sky is orange to be a rebelious contrarian.

[oak egret]

And this is why the proletariat will never seize the means of production. Too busy fighting amongst ourselves about the color of the sky.

[steep yew]

Our sky

[oak egret]

Kiki dawg got that fight in them

[dreamy marten]

I have zero shimmer/jitter so I have to backup that position

[steep yew]

We are among the shimmerless. God has turned their back on us

[dreamy marten]

I think my position will be that the shimmer is bad

The always effective "You can't fire me. I quit" approach

[tepid umbra]

I would appreciate an overcast mod for smb that makes the sky grey so nobody argues anymore.

[dreamy marten]

My tv shows Kitrinx as periwinkle and Wavebeam as blue

[oak egret]

Can’t believe I’ve enjoyed Mega Man 2 all this time with no tree shimmer.

My entire life is a lie. It’s Mortal Kombat 2 on 3DO all over again

[dreamy marten]

I beat it on original hardware not too ago but have played on mister since. I never would have caught the difference.

While exploring the tree shimmer, i tried a few games via component. It felt very off after several months of composite/rf

[oak egret]

All these years of people seeking perfection. 3D Y-comb filters. Attenuated RGB.

All for naught.

The shaky leaves reveal the one true path.

[steep yew]

Jitterness is Godliness, like I always say

[dire lodge]

That still is lowkey cool

Bring in the chromaluma crosstalk garbage

[tepid umbra]

I'm having so much fun with the nes core. Dragon quest is the best.

[oak egret]

Does it have rustling leaves?

[livid leaf]

[tepid umbra]

Of course not.

[oak egret]

Boooooooo

[steep yew]

How can you even play it?

I get horribly motion sick if the leaves don’t shimmer

It grounds me in reality

[steel flume]

I have a lot of nosstalgia for Dragon Quest/Dragon Warrior

[tepid umbra]

I'm playing delocalization patches of the nes titles. And with xp hacks. For 1 I used 3x and for 2 I'm playing with 2x. I feel like these games are so whimsical and casual that they don't really need much grinding or challenge to be fun.

[steel flume]

Have you tried the snes versions?

[oak egret]

That’s the game that suckered me into a Nintendo Power sub to get a free copy.

[tepid umbra]

Yeah but they feel too snesy too me. I also enjoyed the gbc versions but they have a lot of slowdown and the graphics are a downgrade. I like the nes versions most I think.

[steel flume]

Nes version is what I grew up with the thing that I like about the snes ones is the qol stuff. 1 button press to open chest or unlock doors instead of going through the menu.

[tepid umbra]

Yeah well there are not that many chests or doors.

[steel flume]

Also with the exception of the first game which has colorful backgrounds behind monsters in battle..the others have black backgrounds for battles. Makes 2 and 3 seem like a step back on the nes. They all have the colorful backgrounds on snes

[urban meadow]

SNES Dragon Quest supremacy!

[tepid umbra]

Think you're in the wrong channel. I think the nes is hugely underrated. And ALL remakes are shit.

[dire lodge]

Hehhheyy~

[tepid umbra]

👍

The delocalization patch removes the god awful "old English" the official translation is using.

[livid leaf]

I like the ye olde english

[steel flume]

You say the nes is under rated and remakes are sh*t. Yet you even have to patch and change them to play..thats a bit hypocritical .lol

I like the old english too..it fits the game

[oak egret]

Art thou doth the critic?

Fortune smiles upon thee

Makes it feel more Shakespearean 🤣

[steep yew]

Does the English shimmer at least?

[steel flume]

Hero: no
Princess: But thou must!!

[livid leaf]

"Did I fucking stutter?"

[low egret]

@median whale Tried to record MiSTer composite from Mega Man 2. I think sticking to comparisons as seen on CRT might be easier! It's not normally so shaking like that! Maybe just part of whatever Mega Man 2 is doing. No idea

That's PAL Mega Man 2 using MiSTeraddons active adapter

[livid leaf]

I kind of dig the slower Wood Man theme.

[dreamy marten]

Yeah this is how it looks on mine. No discernible shimmer at all. Whereas dolch had tiny shimmer on his.

[low egret]

I'll have to test again on the CRT some other day. I also recorded Gradius, no star flicker.
Though, I thought I could see some watching through CRT when I tested, but it's been a good while since then

[dreamy marten]

https://www.youtube.com/live/uHe3YREd_tg?t=5702&feature=shared

This is a playthrough on original hardware and it has the shimmer shines bright on this one too. I had to go through 5 videos to find one that had it.

Where is the star flicker on gradius? Ive barely played that game

[low egret]

Can't remember where I was first given the Gradius reference but these are the best videos I can find for now.
My understanding is you see flicker in some of the stars from the very start of the game.
PAL; https://youtu.be/_plxhmshiTQ?si=CFedQfZMGMmDYRLC&t=8
NTSC; https://youtu.be/SUIG3hhLD3E?si=uSV6Vx_IIg80VcPx&t=8

[fierce estuary]

that's just composite randomly losing data because they are 1 pixel wide and the clock is not even on nes

probably depends on your tv

nes's composite is a bit non-standard, so better tvs wont lose that data

again, I can't stress this enough, no composite effects are intentional on the NES because they can't be

at least, not outside just relying on generic fidelity loss to blur edges a bit

[tepid umbra]

I'm a hypocrite for exchanging an awful translation from the 80s with a lovingly created and accurate one instead of replacing a non-existent one with a lovingly created and non-existent one, yup.

[steel flume]

It has nothing to do with the translation or if they good or bad. You said the nes versions are the best yet you need to change them to make them playable for you .lol

[tepid umbra]

I beat the original versions as well. And best doesn't mean good!

[dreamy marten]

In that case, I am the best video game player.

I might be the best at a lot of things now

[tepid umbra]

Best can also be defined as the least bad if that helps.

[sweet sparrow]

He's the least bad Virtual Matt on the server, by far

[steel flume]

The best is not good ..thats a really low bar for the best then .lol

As for the old english translation I like it better because I like the names better. I prefer Edrick over Loto..what the hell is a loto?!

[tepid umbra]

A Roto of course. What's an Erdrick?

[steep yew]

i’ll tell you when you’re older

[tepid umbra]

So it's a boomer secret?

[steel flume]

And its not even his real name Just a name given to the hero

So it could have been anything.so make it cool atleat..lol

If yall really want to play bad versions of those 3 games try the switch versions that were all on 1 cart

[dreamy marten]

I have the switch version of 3

I hate when they rename everything

[tepid umbra]

That's the most bad version.

[dreamy marten]

Where did it come from? It was a phone version?

And before that it was gba or something?

[tepid umbra]

There is no gba version and the gbc version are actually pretty good.

[dreamy marten]

Oh it's the snes version

According to the Internet

[steel flume]

Being honest the phone version are better than those switch versions

[tepid umbra]

Never played the phone versions. How did they manage that?

[steel flume]

Even the phone version doesn't have that java look to them the switch games have.

[tepid umbra]

Really? FML.

Maybe I'll try the hd2d version when they're all out. But that's gonna have to be a deeep sale.

[steel flume]

The phone version is still a bit weird tho. It uses the vertical orientation of the phone.

[alpine meadow]

That's actually pretty

[steel flume]

I like it but I can see why some may not

[tepid umbra]

I'm some tbh.

If it's of any consolation I also wildly prefer the nes versions of ff1-3.

[dry lynx]

I agree. That’s a nope from me dawg

[clever scarab]

Remaking an 8bit game to a high resolution 16bit game isn’t that appealing to me

Probably nostalgia talking, I just like my 8bit games looking 8bit

But I’m a fan of the HD2D shenanigans they did with DQ3

[dry lynx]

People can play the SNES version though which also looks nice

(Also = as well as the NES)

The switch/mobile one is awful cos it’s like half and half

It’s like playing a PS1 game with pre-rendered backgrounds rending the 3D elements at 4K

[clever scarab]

Yeah, I like a 16bit look

Just not that super high res mobile look

It looks anachronistic?

[dry lynx]

The most egregious bit is the awful flash art they use for the monsters in battles 🤮

[hasty river]

YOU LOOK.... achromatastic...

[dreamy marten]

I got the phone ones too

Never played the snes or gbc versions

[timber lava]

Just to share:
https://x.com/redherring32/status/1892392234563080490

Redherring32 (@redherring32) on X

This is the Nintendo Dataship 1200.
An extremely rare Famicom with a built in network system.

It's so rare, I bet you have never heard of it.

Let's reverse engineer it together.
Follow along for however long it takes, and I will show you how to preserve this stuff forever. :)

X · Feb 20, 2025, 1:54 AM

[teal ivy]

awesome. someone on nesdev made a flashcart for the network system and offered it to devs. can't wait to see what they do with it.

[clever scarab]

Is this that Famicom that let people look at horse racing scores and banking stuff?

[teal ivy]

usually an add-on but this version is a combined console. you could also look up reviews with the mario club card.

nintendo protoyped some simple online board games some people are now hoping to recreate

[hasty river]

Easy there FBI I ain't sayin' nothin' till my lawyer gets here

[steel flume]

I can imagine the kind of network speeds back then you could just go to your bank and get the info quicker

[vestal blaze]

Is there any plan to add the mapper & hardware support for Former Dawn to the MiSTer NES core?

[urban meadow]

I doubt it. At least probably not without the help of the game's devs.

[dreamy marten]

They are making that game really weird. It won't even run on toploaders.

[lean stag]

toaster-only nes game

[glacial turtle]

Does it have some modern chips on the board?

[sweet sparrow]

https://somethingnerdy.com/unlocking-the-nes-for-former-dawn/
FPGA based mapper with

Indirect access to as much data as could be stored on 4 CD-ROMs. (2.8GiB)
Direct access to up to 1 MiB of RAM
...```

seemingly more nuanced than putting a rpi in there but... yeah

[glacial turtle]

Umm, that reads like nonsense. Access to 4 CDs worth of data? On a NES cart board?

Why not stick a jet engine on the back of your Ford Escort and use it to do the school run...

[sweet sparrow]

yep I'm with you, at some point its not a NES
arguably more of one than using the console as video out for a pi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzVN9kIUNxw

ie the dev makes that argument in the link

[clever scarab]

No, it’s not an NES game.

EDIT: This isn’t a good or bad thing, it’s just using super advanced tech.

[sweet sparrow]

yeah, it's interesting and the folks behind it are clearly dedicated but not something I'd expect to see run on MiSTer

then again we got MSU1 for SNES so if it became more widely used then maybe but still probably not

[clever scarab]

I think its cool as hell and I’m excited to see more about it but I personally don’t consider it an NES game if they’re using hardware that’s so far above and beyond the capabilities of the original hardware.

It’s a weird hybrid thing that’s super cool.

[clever scarab]

Yeah, if that’s the case then I’m sure a core dev would begrudgingly add support to it lol.

But I am personally also totally ok with only being able to play it with an original cart.

[sweet sparrow]

yup

[warm galleon]

I feel like developers of that kind of extreme mapper put undue pressure on emu devs.

[sweet sparrow]

True, when it was near implementing it in their own emu and then support growing that seems different

[clever scarab]

Or don’t want their game being emulated

[warm galleon]

It's more impressive to paint on the canvas using the restrictions that are contemporaneous to me.

[sweet sparrow]

does make you wonder why not make a SNES game

or whatever

but eh, that writeup was interesting

[solemn sedge]

They make a compelling argument that it's akin to a CD-ROM add-on for the NES, much like the Sega CD or TurboGrafx-16 CD-ROM, which I think is both fair and amazing. Bring on the the NES Tower of (Now You're Playing With) Power.

[blissful prairie]

Just imagine the worlds that could be created with 8-Bit NES sounds and graphics. 700 MB would be bigger than thousands of NES games (maybe bigger than all of them!!) combined (if one needs that).

(if anybody is in doubt: no, I actually don't think that this is needed, not even MSU1).

[urban meadow]

I made a comment like this on a Time Extention article about the game, and the developer immediately clapped back at me to say that it absolutely could have been done on the NES back in the day. Came off as gas lighting the heck out of me.

Ah, found it.

Take what you will from it.

[clever scarab]

Oh interesting

[solemn sedge]

Yeah the linked article that CountDuckula posted by the dev goes into this in great detail. They set a goal to make a mapper that was technologically AND financially feasable to produce in real life in 1994. I think it's really admirable.

So, I have to disagree with @Robby, I see this very much as a real NES game. In a way it's more authentically a NES game (based on the dev article), then StarFox is a SNES game or Virtual Racer is Genesis game.

[clever scarab]

I thought it was some harmony cart bs lol

I need a dumbed down explanation

[vestal blaze]

Apparently, the code for the enhancement chip itself is written in Verilog - they already have it running on the N8 Pro, and are referring to the chip design itself as the MXM-0. (You can run a prototype of it on the N8 Pro available from their website.)

It sounds like their goal is to release the designs for the expansion chip as open-source, so it's something to keep an eye out for.

[solemn sedge]

No, it's all a mapper. I think where people are getting hung up is that they designed it to it 'COULD' have been made back in the day with a custom ASIC and was financially doable if you were a large studio. But in 2025 dollars and indie reach, they are 'implimenting' it in an fpga because it's cheaper. But apparently they will opensource the verilog so you could actually manufacture it.

[clever scarab]

Oh

You need to write their articles plz

that was very straightforward thank you

I also disagree with that Robby guy btw

[solemn sedge]

lol and you're welcome. That article is VERY interesting and describes it in detail. But yeah, it could use a TL:DR; But I get where they are coming from. They are very proud of their baby and overexplaining to the point where a lot of people just don't have the time to read through it all.

[clever scarab]

I mean I think the harmony cart stuff is cool too. I shouldn’t have said bs lol.

I just really like drawing a line in the sand going “this was theoretically possible given the hardware and tech at the time” and “here’s some crazy shit that pushes the boundaries of the console so far beyond it was ever scoped to do”.

Both are awesome and I don’t think one is lesser or greater than the other. But you do have to hand it the former where someone takes the time to build a format that really could’ve worked for the hardware at the time.

Anyways I’m don rambling. I just really like retro games and I can’t shut up. Sorry lol

[solemn sedge]

I agree completely, and I get why so many here are protective/skeptical so the people don't get/set unreasonable expectations on what can be done on MiSTer. All gaming is awesome.

I do hope we get support for this in the core as it (from an educated but non-developer user perspective) seems doable. And if they do open source their mapper could make way for really interesting NES games in the future.

....on the other hand, if it doesn't get implemented on MiSTer, might finally push me over the edge to try modding my NES, or building one of those all brand new DIY mobos like Opentendo.

...but damn I don't 'need' another project...

[main narwhal]

I mean... is it just more storage? I'd argue that was possible back in the day if you threw enough money at it. but placing a RPi with a GPU and network access would not be feasible back then

[solemn sedge]

Basically more storage and period appropriate sound chip.

[fierce estuary]

I mean, it wasnt theoretically possible because the cpu they use would have been faster than the best supercomputer in the world at the time

[fierce estuary]

it seems like it might not even work depending on the mods and things, given how picky it is

fwiw cd addon for NES would have been dumb at the time, FDS addon worked okay and because of it there was room for external audio, but the system itself had such poor interrupt management it would have been a disaster

frankly I absolutely don't want to see the introduction of anything like MSU1 for the NES ever

it was a travesty that it happened to snes tbh

especially with an implementation that is so anachronistic and difficult to implement

[clever scarab]

Yeah but for that I can see the logic since the Nintendo PlayStation was a real device being actively developed for.

[fierce estuary]

yes but it wouldnt have worked like that

[clever scarab]

Yeah, I have no concept of how it’s implemented. At a high level the MSU1 format just comes across like a “what if” scenario.

So I get it, even if the implementation and integration isn’t accurate to reality.

GameBoy MSU1 is just funny to me, the divide is too great lol.

NES CD audio falls in the same camp for me anyways.

[fierce estuary]

NES audio generation is pretty iconic to the experience, even VRC-7 is kinda jarring

[solemn sedge]

What do you mean by picky? Are there some early tests of this mapper somewhere?

[fierce estuary]

it doesnt work on top loaders, yeah?

iirc

I think they said toaster only

[clever scarab]

Would an NES even be able to realistically interface with a cdrom unit? It’s hardware from ‘83. The PC Engine I think was built with an eye towards the CD rom attachment and that came out in ‘87 (cdrom ‘88).

[solemn sedge]

From there website (albeit 2022): " In other words, this mapper is real. It is not a theoretical construct! Any one of you with a genuine hardware NES (frontloader or toploader) could insert one of our N8 Pro dev cartridges and run the current build of Former Dawn right now. Compatibility with NES clones varies, but is quite good; more on that later."

[fierce estuary]

there was a port at the bottom of the NES that could be used to interface with a cdrom unit somewhat

it would also need a cart of some kind that worked together with it

[clever scarab]

That’s cool. I don’t know how capable that port is at all tbh.

[fierce estuary]

it had access to the 4 external ppu control pins and the external audio pin at the bottom of the NES

it was intended for FDS

[clever scarab]

Good ‘ole Faulty Disk System

[fierce estuary]

but they didn't release FDS in the USA because of piracy and the lack of need of the rom price crisis subsided

the data access times would have been poor on cd's and the NES's ram is not made for caching so the unit would have needed a cost-prohibitive amount of ram to be able to use data from discs

in 1988 for example a pc would have had 512kb of ram with an expensive upgrade to 640kb

it's an 8 bit cpu of course so the banking system would have had to be pretty ridiculous

and.. who the hell could write such a big program?

[clever scarab]

So what you’re saying is that while technically possible, due to the hardware limitations so much overhead would need to be integrated for it to function that it would’ve been considered financially impossible to even consider?

Like basically redesign the whole system pretty much?

[fierce estuary]

I mean yeah you could sort of cajole it into working with modern parts, it's possible in that sense, but at the time it would have been a real struggle and very inefficient and kinda useless too

like what would you do with all that space other than I guess cd audio

the NES has 52 colors it cant play video

[clever scarab]

Right, need to consider cdrom tech at the time which is worlds different than what we have today.

[fierce estuary]

the programs for it are hand written in 6502 assembly

[clever scarab]

Also single speed at best so data loading would’ve been leagues slower than cartridges.

[fierce estuary]

it has an 8 sprite per line limit and a lot of other limits as well that make complex and detailed scenes difficult

yes, cd speed data without a large cache would be way too slow

anyway it's all very anachronistic and unessesary

MMC5 is already too much

[clever scarab]

But that’s real!

[solemn sedge]

They demonstrate playing video with their mapper. shrug

[fierce estuary]

im sure they had some kind of bad apple demo but with that many colors it can't be fantastic

[solemn sedge]

Right extra storage and cd quality audio. At that time period...ala the PC-Engine CD-ROM...which as you would say "it's not great.....it's awesome"

[fierce estuary]

the turbo cd stuff was fraught with problems

[solemn sedge]

Not bad apple:

[fierce estuary]

not good video

[solemn sedge]

Never said anything about being 'good' 😉

[clever scarab]

Streaming music is nice but the extra storage I wonder how feasible it would be considering the access times. But I do not know of course.

[fierce estuary]

1988 is the end of NES's life span more or less

[clever scarab]

I wonder how the early PC Engine CD games handled all that.

[fierce estuary]

I think snes was 91?

nes came out in 84 though

[clever scarab]

‘83, isn’t that nuts?

[fierce estuary]

tg16 was technically much more capable of using it effectively though with it's massive exposed bus and things

[clever scarab]

So it was being developed in ‘82 lol

[fierce estuary]

the NES was a great machine and it's expansible nature is what let it be so successful

it's just not really a system that is well suited for huge data

like yeah you CAN do it

just like you can do it with atari 2600

it's just going to be shit

[clever scarab]

Oh you’re too harsh

“Not feasible” maybe

[solemn sedge]

I mean, what they've posted and show and written up does not seem like shit.

[fierce estuary]

in scenarios like this you just use the system as a glorified paintbrush and it really become a "what's the fucking point?" situation

[clever scarab]

Cause people like pushing the envelope in weird ways

I mean I get you, from a business and logistics scenario.

Like it makes no sense whatsoever back when the NES was being actively sold.

[solemn sedge]

A novel challenge, restricting yourself to constraints of the time, a learning experience, passion project. Why does everything have to have univerally accepted point?

[clever scarab]

Even if technically possible it would’ve been fiscally impossible and a complete tech nightmare.

[fierce estuary]

because now people like us have to deal with figuring out what to do with it 😛

[clever scarab]

lol I hope someone makes a cdrom attachment for the gameboy

See your head spin lol

[solemn sedge]

So, bad counter argument I know. But, 32X came out. I see this kinda like that.

[clever scarab]

yeah that sure was a mistake lol

[solemn sedge]

And as bad as the 32X was, I understand the rationale. I 'supposedly' cheaper add on versus shelling out money for a whole new system.

[clever scarab]

I do like some games on it haha

[tepid umbra]

Hate to correct you on this, it still IS a great machine!

[solemn sedge]

I want to say that appealed to me cause I was poor and the Saturn was expensive to me........ but yeah, I ended up with two Saturns shortly after launch.

[fierce estuary]

if we're real even the SNES MSU-1 featuers, which also don't work super realistically for their era, are kinda jarring on SNES

like yes it could have probably worked somewhat, but like the videos in MSU-1 are weird

and I wouldn't say the contribute well to the flow of the games in most cases

we already have mappers with large banking schemes and extra audio options that are more idomatic with the system, like the vrc mappers and the mmc5 mapper

this is just an effort to add playstation-like features to the NES which is really sort of cludgy and unartistic and I have very little respect for it, versus something like micro mages which I have a ton of respect for

it's going to make a mess for emulator developers and just give rise to a bunch of low quality junkware that we have to worry about supporting like those dumb atari carts made from a cheap microcontroller

assuming they ever release this game

i've been hearing about it for like 4 years now

does it have a date?

[warm galleon]

"It is not a theoretical construct!" - The theoretical construct is them saying that this is something the NES could have done theoretically in a contemporaneous way. It couldn't have because the hardware to do this at the time didn't exist.

it's like throwing 100MHz ARM coprocessors on carts as people have done before as well

[solemn sedge]

No, all computation happens on the NES cpu and ppu. They expressly state that avoided going the coprocessor route. This is NOT like throwing an arm processor on it. It's NOT evey like the SuperFX or Virtua Racing situation. They also state it could have been technically and financially feasible to make this in an ASIC in 1989, but defintely by 1994 which is the era they are targeting.

[warm galleon]

i didn't say they threw an ARM processor on it

it's an analogy

[solemn sedge]

Fair enough, my apologies, I misread 🙂

And for the record, I have no skin in this fight. It would be great to see it on MiSTer, or not. I just see lots of analogies and assumptions that clearly are not what the developer is doing and has answered in FAQs (assuming the developer is being truthful).

[solemn sedge]

As to release date. There are playable demos of the game out now. I do not know if there is a release date for opensourcing the mapper.

[solemn sedge]

According to their Kickstarter,
"Estimated delivery Dec 2026"

[glacial turtle]

If the enhancements in this are the equivalent of early 90s super computer stuff, isn't this a bit like in thirty years time someone slapping a quantum computer into a PS4 game and doing something insane with a game?

[solemn sedge]

It's not super computer stuff. It's roughly equivalent to having a CD-ROM add on to the NES like the PC-Engine had, according to the dev: https://somethingnerdy.com/unlocking-the-nes-for-former-dawn/

[warm galleon]

I've read the FAQ before, here lemme summarize my disagreements after re-reading their bullet points again:

1. CD-ROMs in 1994 were max 629 MiB/660MB, not 768 MiB
2. SD card slot on the cartridge to handle these oversized not contemporaneous disc images.
3. 1 MiB of static RAM would have never made it onto a cartridge due to cost. The FAQ even admits this, so it would have instead been DRAM which would require a memory controller, which is more added cost, and even DRAM would have been pricy for 1 MiB in 1994 (probably would add 20-30 bucks onto the cost of the cartridge alone just to break even).
4. This unlikely amount of static RAM I think is being used to help with the biggest enhancements which are the fancy bankswitching and scrolling being pushed to the theoretical limits by using metadata to free up 6502 cpu resources. So it's these main features that are heavily contingent upon a big unlikely expensive component.
5. On top of them using static RAM instead of dynamic RAM, they are also using dual port static RAM which would be even more expensive. Cheaper dual-port RAM only became a thing in like the 2000s. Dual-port RAM before then was basically in graphics hardware and other advanced systems if memory serves me right.
6. error correction and de-glitching features - They admit that this wasn't possible to solve at the time due to the limited development tools. This isn't as much a hardware issue, it's a "what if we had 30+ years of emulator development experience and hindsight to go back and make this better". They also say they added "hardware support" to get rid of the glitches from mid-frame interrupts, no specifics have been brought forth, unless they have it in their verilog code they posted.
7. They implemented a scanline counter. back in the day when this was done it was yet another piece of hardware. In their case I am guessing it's running on the FPGA somewhere, so the cost would have been driven up again.
8. DPCM sample size expansion to 16MiB, how would this have been achieved on original hardware without an exceedingly expensive chunk of ROM on the cart, or a big buffer on the cd addon that exceeded the size of any buffer on any cd hardware at the time by multiple times? I might be ignorant, but they don't go into details on how this would be possible back in the day, it seems extreme.
9. YM2610 on the board, that would have been exceedingly expensive. This is an arcade sound chip that was also on the Neo Geo. The FAQ says they don't even know how they will do this without using the 6502 yet, normally these have to be driven by something like a z80.
10. In the FAQ section about economic feasibility... The TurboGrafx-16's CD-ROM addon was a loss leader, like most cd addons back then, they were hoping on sales of licensed cd games to make up for the lost cost. CD-ROMs were not cheap back then. the ADPCM capabilities of the TGFX16 as well are far less than what they have spec'ed out on the NES here, and it required heavy use of the CPU and those were just 5-bit depth samples. They mention cd-rom drives in computers in the early 90's later, but what they don't mention is that those were an expensive luxury up until about exactly 1994, and still exceedingly rare to see until a couple years later.

tl;dr - If you went to your boss at game dev studio and said that you want to make an NES game that will come out in 1994/1995 that will require it's own cd addon and cost more than any NES game before it to develop, you would get laughed at hard in the face.

[warm galleon]

yeah it's not doing something quite this extreme, it's more that it wouldn't have ever happened since it wouldn't be economically feasible back then. it's no different than assumign the nintendo playstation was actually going to become a thing and that it would have been a success, and that someone would make a 4-disc game that pushes all of the hardware to the limits with 30 years of emudev and indie dev hindsight.

[fierce estuary]

that game would have cost like a cheap pc

[warm galleon]

yeah. i think based on the vague kinda allusions and specs that it implies it would be like a neo geo cartridge cost back then

but that's because a lot of the hardware was actually going to be in the cd addon in their universe

which those were always priced as loss leaders, often as a promotional tool for cd-rom technology, sorta-subsidized by whoever supplied the cd tech

[fierce estuary]

neogeo carts in a way were easier to deal with because of their massive multiple busses and spare cpu's that already existed in the system to drive things like audio

you could have things on ROM rather than dual port sram

[warm galleon]

yup, you had multiple faster processors on the neo geo

again, would this have been possible? less possible than the nintendo playstation becoming a reality, which I don't think Nintendo ever was going to pull the trigger on that, they were just exploring the idea internally

[fierce estuary]

we also dont know what they are clocking this sram at, but I doubt it's going to be at the system's clock

i'd guess all the inward-facing components will be at a much higher clock

[warm galleon]

i would expect at least like 2x or 4x clock

[fierce estuary]

the cart only gets m2 signal which means the clocking is gonna be an internal PLL or crystal

[warm galleon]

especially since it's going to be reading from the internal bram of the FPGA then

[fierce estuary]

to the best of my knowledge that will be unique to any nes mapper

everything else is clocked by the system

[warm galleon]

even the konami vrc7 didn't use it's own clock right?

[clever scarab]

I’m so mad because I was about to respond with “TLDR gottem” but you outwitted me by including a succinct tldr.

[warm galleon]

that's like the only one i could think of that would

[fierce estuary]

right

[clever scarab]

So basically, the only way this could’ve have been real is if a company was fully dedicated on becoming bankrupt within 6 months and not adjusting the price to sell anything, or being price competitive and becoming bankrupt in 1 month?

[fierce estuary]

the NES mappers in mister only use the edges of M2 pretty much

it would be like if a company like google wanted to show off some theoretical thing

[clever scarab]

So then this is literally impossible to have existed for the NES anyways. Even if technically possible, the logistics, complexity, and finances required literally make it impossible for any company to have done.

Because the hardware structure of the NES was simply too primitive to elegant interface with a CD ROM unit so most of the hardware would’ve have to been included on a CD ROM unit:

So we’re literally back to this being some Harmony cartridge equivalent to the 2600.

[warm galleon]

it's more like would a company have made a sega cd addon soley for their one game

probably not

[clever scarab]

Yeah but this sounds way more complicated than that.

[warm galleon]

so then it's a fantasy system of "what if nintendo had officially made an NES cd add-on that exceeded the capabilities of the tgfx16-cd addon and the sega cd addon to a big degree"

[clever scarab]

At least with the Genesis it was late 90s hardware where a lot of design was extensible to working with CDrom technology. At least more extensible than hardware made in 1982. Probably designed before the CDRom even came out.

Honestly the more I read everyone’s impressions, this sounds like literally a brand new console that’s connected to the NES, just because.

I mean I’m probably wrong on that last statement. It certainly does look like an NES game and they say they developed the game in-line with the NES’s development structure,

But like given the exorbitant expenses to make this thing that vastly out dwarfs the NES hardware itself, why would anyone beholden their CDRom hardware to the NES when it would probably be a $10 BOM added expense to the CD ROM unit to make it its own console lol.

[warm galleon]

the sega cd was earlier than this, 1991. tgfx16-cd was 1989 i think

just for perspective

but the sega cd was a commercial flop, so even less likely that nintendo would try to do the same years later hehe

[clever scarab]

Yeah, I’m aware of that. The PC Engine being similar to the NES and being ‘89 is the only thing that remotely compares to this fantasy addon in my mind and the only thing that doesn’t make me outright dismiss any of their claims.

[warm galleon]

yeah

[clever scarab]

Sorry I’m not technical or as well educated as you,

[warm galleon]

i'm not either, not on the NES anyways

[clever scarab]

Just parsing it through from an economic feasibility perspective.

[warm galleon]

yup, and that's the main issue

them using dual port static ram and dual port rom really stands out as kinda giving the game away hehe

[clever scarab]

The Harmony carts I know are FPGA but there could’ve been an actually technical implementation for those, right?

Wait they’re arm right?

See I don’t know shit lol

[warm galleon]

yeah i think harmony cart has a whole ass ARM cpu on it

[clever scarab]

I mean that’s the quickest way to a solution but you could probably have designed a custom processor for the 2600 that did the same thing, right?

[warm galleon]

kinda the whole point of the harmony cart is to be a romcart

[clever scarab]

oh ok

[warm galleon]

it's to load multiple games off one cart

[clever scarab]

well never mind

[warm galleon]

there's another cart that has an arm processor that i forget the name of

another 2600 mapper

kitrinx probably knows

[clever scarab]

What I was trying to get at is the community doesn’t consider that actual 2600 games because of the modern tech used that’s way above and beyond a realistic scenario for the console at the time

Well at least I don’t anyways

[warm galleon]

their justifiation is that pitfall 2 had a coprocessor on the cart

[twin siren]

is nes even relevant

[clever scarab]

That’s pretty cool, I don’t think I knew that

[clever scarab]

lol of course not

[twin siren]

great. see ya in about three weeks.

[warm galleon]

yeah harmony uses a 70MHz ARM cpu and some homebrew designed specifically for it use that to do things like PCM-like audio streaming

[clever scarab]

Damn ok, 70mhz is insane for the 80s lol

[fierce estuary]

harmony and melody?

[fierce estuary]

more like an asic, barely would call that a processor

[mellow dawn]

I would not be that harsh on the idea of the harmony cart itself. As I recall, it was designed to implement the Pitfall 2 cart in an easy way for a Rom cart. Then people thought, hey there is an ARM here. Why not use it. In some way these are all the same. Someone puts an FPGA in a SNES rom cart to handle expansion chips. Then someone says, there is a whole fpga in there so we can do MSU-1. This is similar. FPGAs are in NES ROM carts so why not use it to build a massive mapper. They all use advanced hardware to recreate legacy expansions, then someone says it is there so might as well use it and the equivalent of feature creep ensues. None of them would have been financially feasible at the time.

[warm galleon]

yeah it started out as that, but it turned into something that executes code in a way that wasn't period-accurate. I think the opposition is that new homebrew mappers that do things in an unfeasible or essentially impossible way for the period of the original hardware is a constant moving target. One day someone will implement a raspberry pi 8 in the year 2035 into a cartridge and it streams cd audio music, fmv, etc... It's just that some people think a line should be drawn for period accuracy and others disagree is all.

[sand leaf]

this guide said nothing about unlocking my nes

mom left home without telling me the number lock, guess she never found those cigarettes

[urban meadow]

I see that has ensued since my last visit to NES thread!

[sand leaf]

it’s ok son, i am here

[clever scarab]

Yeah, great points and they’re fundamentally really cool.

I’m looking forward to this NES RPG. I like the concept of pushing hardware as far as possible. Cool to see what people can do.

[sand leaf]

the Paprium of 8bit games

hopefully without all the delays, silence and other weirdness

[main narwhal]

back in the day, if they were in Japan, they would probbly have targeted the PC Engine CD instead

which had much better graphics and sound than the NES, and a CDROM add-on

but of course there is much less of a market for that nowadays (compared to NES homebrew)

[sweet sparrow]

Thanks for the breakdown birdybro 👍

found the article interesting, was hoping for an informed critique 🙂

and kitrinx/greyrogue of course

[clever scarab]

Does this core support the StudyBox?

[latent breach]

I think only if you use SNAC

[blissful prairie]

Are there some videos that show this solid bar of colour? We discussed that a few weeks ago (and your never merged revision of the PPU) and it doesn't let me go 😉

[clever scarab]

I DEMAND STUDYBOX INTEGRATION!

[latent breach]

@clever scarab per-core password locks wen

"Well son, you failed your history test so I locked every core but the Jaguar core. Play that as your punishment"

[clever scarab]

Ok so this rom patch works in Ares but not the Nintendo core - https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/8924/

Now how am I going to play Donkey Kong Country???

[steel flume]

Totally sucks you cant play it on the NES core...I mean who want to play the superior version on the SNES?

[clever scarab]

I don’t see Donkey Kong Country FOUR on SNES!!

[solar ferry]

Is pacman championship edition borked for anyone else?

[dreamy marten]

it works!

no save states though

[sweet sparrow]

You need this version:
Pac-Man Championship Edition (USA, Europe) (Namco Museum Archives Vol 1).nes MD5 EF824FA073B9B34FB07B9CABA33EECA0

Theres another version around that doesn't work with the core: #1091056042667937944 message

[solar ferry]

Thanks for the tip. Fixed Ghosts and Start Button Combined + CRT Overscan Hacks is

[fierce estuary]

YIQ is just rotated YUV really

nintendo didnt use it though

it also was based on the japanese standard

even the american one

also important to note is that the sony chip and etc were designed around sony's phosphors colorometry

these are kind of old things

but it's good this person is starting to explore the nes

[twin siren]

where are the games tho?

[dry lynx]

For those of us who are dense…

[hasty river]

Is mapper 30 supported?

[grand jewel]

Yes.

Should be as some Homebrew games from Broke Studio uses it.

[hasty river]

Right that's why I asked thanks!

[half pasture]

Is Estique running without graphic glitches now?

[grand jewel]

The dump was bad, but the complete version directly from the cartridge is private.

[half pasture]

Confirmed. The fixed ROM works flawlessly in the core!

[wicked cobalt]

I noticed that my PAL roms have sped up music. Is this issue already known?

[hasty river]

Do you have the system set to NTSC? This would happen when you take a 50hz game and play it at 60hz

[wicked cobalt]

I manually set it to PAL and it still was sped up.

[grand jewel]

The original cartridge seems to have an autodetect system between PAL and NTSC systems.

They were elusive when I asked the question the other day.

[wicked cobalt]

Even though I was very careful, it could actually be an issue with some of my roms, as most seem to play just fine in PAL mode. However some run at the incorrect speed.

[livid leaf]

Also there are NTSC-to-PAL conversions that are just plain poor. The opposite also happens.

[twin siren]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiFmu3RxZh4 any CHILDHOOD OWNERS of this game?

[clever scarab]

Nah but I had a friend who owned it

[twin siren]

so that made you cluless

somebody stop me. it's not even friday.

[ember pier]

Ha Nintendo, the family company, with game names similar to "ku klux klan" lol

[clever mango]

What are some good USB Famicom-like controllers?

Two button controllers, not four buttons

[clever mango]

Also does anyone know how to save while playing FDS games

Or is that just not an option, I have auto save turned on

[urban meadow]

They should save just fine.

[clever mango]

The save state and restore state options are faded out for me

[urban meadow]

Oh, that's different than normal saves.

Yeah, FDS doesn't support save states on the core.

[clever mango]

It does?

Never mind

[urban meadow]

Sorry, typo.

[clever mango]

Dang well guess I gotta do the 1990s thing and let my tv on overnight if I’m busy with something else

Jk lol

[urban meadow]

As for usb controllers. I rather like the TG-16 controllers that came with the TG-16 mini console.

[clever mango]

I got a retro bit NES style USB controller to use that core with

I may pick up a TG-16 mini controller at some point

[mellow dawn]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/commit/0f9cb158f189d1197fd151feb5ff16e38fa06213

It is not in a release yet though

[steep yew]

um, grey, this is not the jaguar cd

[hasty river]

You can do it with MiSTer

No need for the tb though lol

[clever mango]

TB?

[hasty river]

TV sorry

[wicked cobalt]

Are NES 2.0 format roms preffered to be used with the Mister? And will rom hacks still work with these?

[livid leaf]

Always use the 2.0 format whenever possible.

[wicked cobalt]

What's the better choice, re-building my romset from scratch by downloading 2.0 format roms, or patching my existing roms?

[clever scarab]

Rebuilding.

Patching will take a much longer process than just downloading a single zip file

[wicked cobalt]

Will I be able to apply translation patches to the 2.0 roms as well, or should I just patch the few unheadered roms that I already applied the translation patches for?

[clever scarab]

I think so, I’ve never had issues. But that’s a great question, maybe try one to see if it’s fine.

[wicked cobalt]

I was able to patch the NES 2.0 roms with the translation hacks from romhacking.net without issues, even in cases where the hashes didn't match.

[hidden owl]

Did the most recent Mister updates (update all) and now my controls via SNAC are out of whack. Is there a fix on the way?

[clever scarab]

This is the first we’ve heard about it

What’s the issue?

[steep yew]

Does a linux update reset snac bindings?

[fierce estuary]

snac has absolutely nothing to do with linux

and there are no snac bindings

[amber willow]

My guess is you enabled the db9 core downloads in updateall. which gave you the unofficial cores with a different pinout. You might be able to check the date on the nes build in the menu.

[steep yew]

gonna just put this here and then back away slowly... https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=9239

[hasty river]

I can finally change every color to periwinkle!

[fierce estuary]

theres a lot of those

there's one right on the nesdev site

[formal grove]

NES core is the only one i can’t get to run correctly for some reason, always boots to a grey/white screen even after i try to load a ROM. anyone else experience?

[steep yew]

Try another rom set. I get that when I try to boot some hacked roms

[half pasture]

Look for the fixed iNes 2.0 headered set

[steel flume]

The htgdb packs on archive work well too.

I like those because they are already organized into folders

[hasty river]

Kitrinx made a tool to convert nes roms too

[tribal hinge]

That tool is fabulous!

it made me want to learn python 😂

I mean I haven't because I lack the discipline but that's another story

[clever scarab]

I used the tool and now all my games are periwinkle, help

[hasty river]

That's a feature not a bug

[granite pivot]

Odd, I used the tool many times and never got that lady from Puchi Carat.

oh wait, that's Peridot

[keen rapids]

Lost a bunch of progress when I tried to open the menu to save. All I got was this square

I’ve had weird problems with NES and the OSD before. Sometimes when loading the core, opening the OSD won’t pause the game (as in the photo I took) and savestates will be broken as a result.

But the OSD has always at least saved the game to ram for me before now.

[steep yew]

are you loading games off the SD?

[keen rapids]

Yes.

[steep yew]

and you have autosave on?

[keen rapids]

Yep

[steep yew]

It freezing as soon as you open the OSD makes me think it's trying to save to the SD and something went wrong. Could be just a transient thing, but it also could be a sign that the SD card is going bad

[keen rapids]

Like I said, only the NES core has ever had the OSD act up. This is the first time the OSD ever actually froze though.

I kind of doubt the SD card is going bad, or else I’d have issues with other cores.

[steep yew]

yeah maybe not - could just be a problem where it was trying to save. But locking up there feels like an SD card thing

might be worth blowing up the nes .rbf in /_Consoles and anything NES related in the /config folder

just in case there is something there gumming up the works

[keen rapids]

Alright, I’ll try deleting those tonight then. Thank you.

[steel flume]

Deleting the config files thats kinda the digital version of blowing the cart 🤣🤣

[urban meadow]

I used to joke back in the day that the Game Genie was the reverse of blowing into the cart. That it sprinkled specific patterns of dust into the cartridge to produce its results!

[dry lynx]

That wasn’t very funny

[graceful field]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXwnEROWnLY

Does anyone have any idea what could be going on here? I would expect timing differences but nothing like this. It almost seems like 60 vs 60.1 hz (losing around a seond every 10 minutes).

I did some manual spot checks in the video:

Timing Mister Ahead
0:12 0
0:15 1
0:18 1
0:22 1
0:24 2
0:34 3
0:44 4
0:55 5
1:05 6
1:12 6
1:26 7
5:24 29

But I've personally timed myself on my hardware vs original hardware on another game and have counted by the frame for at least 1.5 minutes (the section I was looking at).

I also speedran smb1 above and would have noticed the 1/2 a second this is showing for a 5 minute run.

Any idea what could be going on?

[steep yew]

could the NES be PAL and the mister loading an NTSC rom?

[graceful field]

I think PAL would be much more noticable though, basically losing 10 frames every second. This is much closer to 60.2 vs 60.1 I think vs 50ish.

[tepid umbra]

Yeah, I wish pal was that good.

[graceful field]

I thought maybe it was demo resetting losing something consistent but I don't think I'm finding that pattern (but could be missing something)

[frank hinge]

I wonder how the Retrousb AVS compares?

Whilst I have one, I don't have any way to record it.

[graceful field]

More detail was posted in the comments: "The Original Hardware was my footage. AV Famicom with HiDefNES HDMI mod and had a full capacitor restore about 6 years ago. Using my personal Super Mario Bros rom dump, running off an Everdrive M8. Captured using RetroTink4k with all defaults. NTSC."

[fierce estuary]

turn off the dejitter

also pal is mostly ignored, test with ntsc

[graceful field]

I may have figured it out.... is hidefnes giving a 60.0 vs 60.1hhz signal to make things simple.... checking....

[fierce estuary]

nobody should ever play NES in pal if they can help it

the timing on mister nes is very accurate

also on a real NES, the temperature of the room can influence it and the age

they degrade with time

this is why speedrunners have started putting them on hotplates and weird stuff

[graceful field]

Got it

https://forums.nesdev.org/viewtopic.php?p=136413&sid=c329b4eeedd4873e1ab3c9953afcb207#p136413

To get nice output it slightly underclocks the nes

mister ftw 🎆

@little schooner ^ This probably explains the timing differences in your recent video

[tepid umbra]

Thank you. Now I have a picture in my head of speedrunners cooking their NES over a fire like some cowboys with a can of beans.

[fierce estuary]

to clarify on dejitter, what it does is every other frame it adds 1 additional pixel to make the frames evenly sized, otherwise a lot of modern tv's freak out

it can be disabled but the timing differences are extremely minimal

the original timing of a NES runing at the specified clock speed is 60.098 fps

096? something like

60.09

ish

[graceful field]

@little schooner would it be possible to pin a comment to that video explaining this? There is unfortunately a lot of FUD with speedrunners using mister and I don't want this to cause more issues for them.

[little schooner]

No probs.

Do you wanna DM me the message l, I'll copy and paste it, and pin to the video.

Or leave a comment on the video and I can pin it.

[half pasture]

Delete the video!!!

[clever scarab]

Wouldn’t MiSTer be the most accurate way to play these games, even over original hardware because of the aging chips?

[dry lynx]

More accurate than original hardware

[little schooner]

I've changed the thumbnail and description and added that it's a HiDefNES.

If any here has the ability to provide actual NES NTSC footage in a way that is considered pure NES hardware, then let me know, I'll add that to the mix.

[main narwhal]

how about Famicom NTSC?

[clever scarab]

I don’t have recording equipment but I’ve got my original NES still hooked up

[little schooner]

Thanks guys. Something to look into in the near future, when I have more time. I deffo wanna do it

[little schooner]

If that can capture the true NES experience. It would be awesome.

I do enjoy running these tests, but hate creating wrong impressions in the process.

Just wanna make sure. The NES is at the right speed as it was back in the 80s

So the comparisons are as fair as can be.

[main narwhal]

what do you test with?

[little schooner]

Just record default cores on systems, and run them from the first frame of moving animation. It has to be in attract mode.

[main narwhal]

I can check if I can capture 35+ mins of SMB

I have an XCapture1 which can take direct composite input from my AV Famicom

[frank hinge]

I don't have any sort of capture. Otherwise I could've tried my Retrousb AVS FPGA NES.

[fierce estuary]

most emulators also run at slightly the wrong speed, fwiw

to get 60fps

they have to resample to audio to accomodate

[little schooner]

Thanks, and no rush,

[sand leaf]

analogue be like

[fierce estuary]

yes, they do that, but I thought they had some mode to do it at the native speed? maybe im giving them too much credit

anyway the NES core runs at exactly the specified clock speed of an original nes if dejitter is off, and extremely slightly slower if dejitter is on (like 1 seconds a day or something)

but remember, real hardware can vary in speed

it also has alignment stuff which can change timings

now PAL is fairly accurate but I admit we do some slightly odd stuff there to make it work better with memory

if you are playing NES games in PAL though, chances are you don't care about the speed, or life in general

[hasty river]

I don't remember a dejitter setting in the NES core is that what it's called?

[blissful prairie]

That's the one thing that let's me take off my "warts and all" glasses. Even though I grew up with PAL NES games, I stick to NTSC versions on my MiSTer. Even my Punch Out! muscle memory works when doing the mental PAL --> NTSC switch.

[fierce estuary]

dejitter under advanced

I didnt originally make an option for it because it's pointless to turn it off, but someone felt the need to add it

[hasty river]

Thanks, so turn it off for more accurate timing?

Slightly? Lol

[fierce estuary]

I can not stress how marginally more accurate it is, but yes

it doesnt change the actual timing of how the system runs to be clear

the way it works is it pauses the entire system for one pixel clock, so your tv doesnt have uneven timing

so the system isnt running out of sync or anything, all the interrupts and timings are still perfect

[hasty river]

Gotcha

I'll leave it on

[fierce estuary]

it just adds a tiny real time buffer every other frame of a single pixel

[hasty river]

I knew something was off

[fierce estuary]

there are 74166 pixels for frame and it's only skipped when rendering is active which isnt for every frame, and it's only ever other frame when rendering is active, so that's a 1 pixel per every 148332 pixels worst case scenario

hopefully that puts it in perspective

[hasty river]

Yeah that explains it

Literally unplayable

[ripe shell]

Howzabout this freak romset

Of Atari Flashback games, which are ports/recreations to a famiclone system

Some roms like Adventure don't work and I don't know if it's a bad dump or whatever

[clever scarab]

lol that’s amazing

[ripe shell]

There is also the SNES romset which has exact same games looking and playing exact same

But also variyng levels of broken

[urban meadow]

I have E.T. for the NES on my MiSTer! It's actually decent!

[amber willow]

could be the header, kit wrote some script you could run your roms through. Maybe you could try that with a copy

[supple ermine]

There was a mapper request thread on the forum where someone asked for the Flashback mapper. I believe Mister doesn't have it yet. But the separated roms may work when the whole thing doesn't.

[fierce estuary]

I also wrote, you know, an atari emulator

[ripe shell]

I like checking out weird ports to other hardware

[amber willow]

Pretty sure I played the Adventure single rom before on mister, so I think it can work. The mapper for the multicart flashback thing I'm not sure about.

[ripe shell]

maybe you played the SNES rom

that's the one that works for me

[amber willow]

possibly, I don't really remember. I did play some port of it though

[steel flume]

I finally caved and ordered an analogue pocket. The nes core has VS system support something I been hoping the mister nes core would get eventually.

[fierce estuary]

https://www.opi.com/products/nail-lacquer-youre-such-a-budapest

Is it the right color?

[steep yew]

https://tenor.com/vniC.gif

[clever scarab]

I don’t get it

It’s nice though

[fierce estuary]

it's a lovely periwinkle

reminiscent of an evening sky

in the mushroom kingdom

[clever scarab]

Damnit 🤣

u win

[steep yew]

Oh that looks sick

[solar ferry]

There's a jump on the first level that was pretty annoying so I dropped it almost immediately

[timber lava]

thank you for the share !

[steel flume]

Yup

[fierce estuary]

Is that using my pallet?

[steel flume]

Not all the different roms work right some do have weird colors

[steel flume]

Thats what it looks like to start Ive tried palettes and they dont seem to change anything

Maybe because vs palettes are different?

[fierce estuary]

probably

they used scrambled palettes as copy protection

[steel flume]

Like this

[frank hinge]

Cursed

[steel flume]

Thats one of the roms that dont work right

Its almost like they scrambled the different roms in different ways coz all the ones that mess up dont mess up the same way

[hasty river]

Just like I remember it

[sweet sparrow]

The sky's meant to be olive green!

[mellow dawn]

https://www.nesdev.org/wiki/Vs._System#Palette

[calm jay]

Plz implement mapper support

[steel flume]

So I was right there are different variations in the pallettes from the different ppus

[steel flume]

Wouldn't it take a bit more than the mapper? Gotta have a coin button too. Maybe that's something easy..

[fierce estuary]

Yes it's more

Not much though

It's a few mappers

[fierce estuary]

No

[jaunty pier]

https://tenor.com/view/darth-vader-no-noooo-gif-7347380959994097336

[low egret]

Away from MiSTer so without checking if it already exists on the core, can there be an option to swap the duty cycle response for music to match old clone consoles?

I keep forgetting to ask/check, but it's a fun case of what would hopefully be a minor toggle on the core to match the nostalgic NES sounds of perhaps an awful lot of people!

[fierce estuary]

no, and why would you want broken audio

[steep yew]

Nostalgia is a cruel mistress

[fierce estuary]

it's a disease

[low egret]

The desire for broken audio to people in south america, eastern europe, some of asia, is indeed going to be nostalgia.
I doubt any "official" NES had that audio sure, but it would be what a lot of people did experience when they had the chance to play Mario. It seems to be a feature on some emulators, so the demand (if niche) is there.
Bit like asking me why play 50Hz when 60Hz exists!
IMO it would be a nice nod to have. For what it's worth, I feel like it matches my Irish memory too. Never had an NES, but whatever knock off cheap box we had at some point must have also had the duty cycle incorrect

[low egret]

Seeing some of the history of NES releases around the world, with seemingly varying degrees of Nintendo involvement, there may well have been one or many Nintendo approved releases worldwide that did have the alternate duty cycle response.
The Hong Kong NES having a 50/60Hz toggle is wild!

[clever scarab]

Sounds like it’s outside the scope of this core since it’s replicating official hardware instead of clone.

[low egret]

Perhaps. I'm not knowledgable of all the variants, but looking as I said, it might even be in official hardware too! (Just not NAO, EU or JPN)

[clever scarab]

I’m definitely not knowledgeable lol.

[low egret]

We are as one!

[half pasture]

My dream is that someone comes up with the Brazilian Phantom System NES clone palette

[frank hinge]

Now

I'm not claiming there might be a bug. But I came across this post on Reddit which showed an issue with a game on the NES core.

The game is called Battle Chess. There's a flashing blue line on the title screen.

Il send the link to the post you can see the image.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MiSTerFPGA/s/OITgBpCKBX

I don't have my nes setup to check.

[elfin flume]

Can confirm this is happening in battle chess on my mister setup.
Cannot confirm if this is a thing on real hardware.

[half pasture]

Same on real hardware

Phantom System color palette wen

[tepid umbra]

So... by bad they mean accurate?

[frank hinge]

Seems like it

[timber lava]

On NES there is plenty of those kind of issues the more common is SMB3

[tepid umbra]

They are still less buggy than... modern games.

[half pasture]

Modern “games”

[tepid umbra]

I'd rather play final fantasy on nes 16 times than final fantasy 16 once.

[half pasture]

I couldn’t care less about modern “games”. MiSTer alone gives me a library of games that I will be long dead before knowing 90% of them. And I’m only talking about the great ones here!

[tepid umbra]

I like to replay the good ones from time to time.

[steep yew]

I dunno. Final fantasy 16 may have the best “final fantasy” world of all of them. The story is fine, but the world is great

It’s no Clair obscur but what is

[tepid umbra]

No final frenchtasy you mean.

[steep yew]

Lost Odyssey 2

[tepid umbra]

I know it's not as mainstream as ff but shin megami tensei stuck to it's turn based combat all these years and I immensely appreciate it for that.

[steep yew]

That reminds me that I keep meaning to check out the nocturn remaster that came out checks notes ….5….. years ago….

Maybe I’ll just wait for the remastered remaster

[tepid umbra]

Smt5v is also very good and on all modern platforms fyi.

Smt1+2 have translations on mister and are also great. I actually did a lot of testing for the gba translation of 1 during lockdown, so naturally that one is pretty good. 😅

[steep yew]

Was nocturn really the first one we got stateside?

[tepid umbra]

From mainline definitely. But Persona 1 and one of the persona 2 games are on psx.

I personally prefer mainline, but I'll try the original personas before it became school simulator in 3 at some point.

[steep yew]

Yeah, that’s right. It was nocturn, then digital devil saga, then dds2(?), then devil summoner?

[tepid umbra]

Not sure between dds and devil summoner tbh. Though devil summoner is an action game and is also getting a remaster soon.

[clever scarab]

MiSTer wins again!!!

[near cloak]

Is there anything that the N8 pro can do that the nes core can’t ?

[glacial turtle]

There will be some obscure mappers that it supports that the core doesn't, I documented them here once upon a time

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iJM0-bT9_d7SZTpBevZ6d0IiJ05T6Cs_5KubpBqpVRM/edit?gid=0#gid=0

Mapper Description
12 an MMC3 variant with a simple twist, maybe the only game that uses this mapper is Dragon Ball Z 5
40 used in several cartridge conversions of the Japanese version of Super Mario Bros. 2
44 This mapper is an MMC3 based multicart Super Big 7-in-1
45 multicart PCBs, an MMC3 clone with four outer bank registers
49 MMC3 multicart, Super HIK 4-in-1
50 the N-32 conversion of Super Mario Bros. 2 (J). A hack of the YUNG-08 conversion
51 Submapper 1 is used for 11-in-1 Ball Games (JY-010)(850828C)
52 multicart mappers
56 reportedly represents a specific unlicensed reproduction of Super Mario Bros. 3
57 multicarts, GK 47-in-1and 6-in-1 (SuperGK)
58 used for a number of simple NROM-/CNROM-based multicarts
60 used for a Reset-based NROM-128 4-in-1 multicart
61 multicart mapper, 20-in-1
96 used with the two games that use the Oeka Kids tablet
99 a simple mapper used by Vs. System games such as Vs. Super Mario Bros

103 a specific pirate port of the FDS version of Doki Doki Panic
106 used by Super Mario Bros 3 bootleg
108 denotes at least four different PCBs used for FDS-to-cartridge conversions
115 Chinese releases including Thunderbolt Fighting Plane
117 used for Crayon Shin-Chan (Ch) and San Guo Zhi 4 - Chi Bi Feng Yun by Future Media
134 an MMC3-clone-based multicart
142 used for several of Kaiser's unlicensed ports of FDS games
144 allocated for the game Death Race
151 represents the VRC1 on the Vs. System
157 used for games using the Datach Joint ROM system
168 represents the board used for Racermate Challenge 2
175 used by Kaiser's 15-in-1 pirate multicart
176 multicarts as well as Chinese single-game carrtidges, mostly from Waixing
177 used for games from 恒格电子 (Hénggé Diànzǐ)
178 Various Chinese companies used this mapper

182 possible duplicate of INES Mapper 114
183 supposedly assigned to represent the pirate port of Gimmick! known as Suikan Pipe
186 used for Fukutake Shoten's Japanese edutainment game Study Box
187 MMC3-clone-bearing board: Street Fighter Zero 2, The King of Fighters '96
188 describes the board used for Bandai's Karaoke Studio
193 represents boards that use NTDEC's TC-112 mapper IC, Fighting Hero
197 MMC3 clone wired to support 512 KiB of CHR-ROM
198 used for the original Hong Kong release, Tūnshí Tiāndì - Sānguó Wàizhuàn
199 duplicate of INES Mapper 176 variant used on Chinese games
200 used on multcarts: 1200-in-1, 36-in-1
201 assigned to a multicart mapper designed to contain multiple NROM-256 games
202 used for the 150-in-1 pirate cart (which was shipped with dual sloat SP60 famiclone console)
203 multicart mapper, 35-in-1
212 another simple discrete logic pirate multicart mapper
213 a duplicate of INES Mapper 058, used on multicarts
214 used for the Super Gun 20-in-1 pirate multicart
216 used for certain games in Russian, including Bonza and Videopoker Bonza as well as Magic Jewelry II
219 MMC3-clone-bearing board, used by: Toy Story, Super 1997 4-in-1 (NT-8029)

221 used for multicarts using the NTDEC N625092 PCB
222 pirate ports of Namco's Dragon Ninja and Taito's Don Doko Don 2 AKA "Super Mario Bros. 8"
229 used on multicart "BMC 31-IN-1", is a simple mapper
231 multicart mapper, 20-in-1
238 used for Contra Fighter, a hack of G.I. Joe with Street Fighter II characters
240 used in Chinese games, Jing Ke Xin Zhuan, Sheng Huo Lie Zhuan
241 used natively by games from Henge Dianzi, a few educational computer cartridges, and mapper hacks
242 used in Chinese games, Wai Xing Zhan Shi
244 used for Decathlon by C&E
245 used in Waixing's Chinese translation of Dragon Quest IV
248 mistakenly assigned to some Chinese games, for instance, Bao Qing Tian
249 used by several Waixing games, including Golden Axe
250 a mapper by Nitra, used for pirate games such as Time Diver Avenger and the Queen Bee V
252 Waixing's Chinese localization of 三国志: 中原の覇者 (Sangokushi: Chūgen no Hasha)

Assuming everything is up to date, those are the mappers on the N8 not on the NES core, and a basic desciption of what they are for

[near cloak]

That is quite a list .. I’m honestly amazed it’s so long .. might just get an original n8 . Thanks for the info!

[hasty river]

How hard would it be to add those to the core? And who is the brave soul who would do it lol

[glacial turtle]

I am not a dev, but if someone knew what they are doing it would be fairly straightforward for a lot of them. Issue is though the more you add to the core the longer the compile times and bigger it gets, so there there has been a reluctance from Devs who knows the core to do so. That and they mappers we don't have are largely for multicarts, Asian centric titles, and bootlegs, so they aren't terribly appealing.

I do think it would be nice if the core did have parity with the NT Mini Noir and other FPGA devices and the flash carts, but as covered, there is a cost and you need someone who wants to do them.

[hasty river]

Yeah but how full is the core? If there's plenty of space it wouldn't hurt would it?

[glacial turtle]

Well, if you fancied learning Verilog I don't think anyone would stop you from adding them 🙂

[hasty river]

You're right! I'd rather toss money at a Patreon though lol

[livid leaf]

At the very least the mapper for the Vs. titles should be supported.

Maybe an offshoot core to properly support the arcade formatting?

[glacial turtle]

157 - Datach would be cool, I have one of those

[hasty river]

Are they not? I thought they were added

[steel flume]

Vs works on the pocket but not on mister

[hasty river]

damn

[burnt karma]

Whaoh, you just got me thinking. Why don't we have an "Improved" NES core someday?

Like, maybe it could display more sprites

[clever scarab]

There’s a disable sprite limit option in the core

[burnt karma]

Basically free up the limitations just enough

[urban meadow]

Isn't there already an option for that in the core?

[burnt karma]

Or you know in Mario 3

see that garbage on the screen

somehow reduce that or eliminate it

[urban meadow]

I just play Super Mario Allstars to eliminate it!

[burnt karma]

I will take a look. I remember my FPGA NES thing had it, but I sold that...

But I didn't notice a huge diff

Cuz with ninja turltes, noticed the sprites kinda flashing still

[burnt karma]

Heh yeah

YOu know what was cool

That SA-1 addition to Super Mario World

[steep yew]

Dinierto faced public embarrassment after claiming he could hear sound at a “loudness” level above 38, which contradicts established scientific understanding. Such a statement challenges basic principles of human auditory perception, as “loudness” levels above 38 are physiologically implausible. The incident underscores the importance of scientific accuracy and skepticism in evaluating extraordinary claims, especially when they deviate from well-established norms in fields like sensory perception. couldn't have said it better myself

[burnt karma]

Stuff like that I just love

[hasty river]

This sounds super difficult. The games are all written specifically to take advantage of the limitations of the NES, you'd have to rewrite the game itself, or make a game specific hack that somehow counters it in real time, I don't think you can just magically make a special NES that retroactively removes specialized machine code in games

[burnt karma]

Yeah, I agree it would be difficult, but it's possible!

[hasty river]

Oh man that must be true. I read it just now on the webs

[hasty river]

no I think my point is that it's not lol

[burnt karma]

Well, if you redesigned the core, plus the games one by one, it could work

[steep yew]

that's what you get from your deviation

[burnt karma]

There is a guy right now who is releasing NES games on the SNES

[burnt karma]

And it makes them run better

It's very cool

He's working on Mega Man 6 now

this guy

Infidelity

So someone out there is at least doing the roms side of things, and just using the SNES as the "souped up" NES

[clever scarab]

That’s what the S in SNES means

Souped-up

[burnt karma]

Souped-up NES yes that's what we shoudl all call it

[urban meadow]

Super Nintendo Entertainment Souped-up.

[clever scarab]

My brain hurt reading that lol

[hasty river]

There are at least two

[burnt karma]

O who is the second guy?

[clever scarab]

you!

[burnt karma]

I only know of Infidelity

[hasty river]

Also Rumbleminz

[burnt karma]

cool

[clever scarab]

Your poor significant other

[hasty river]

he did a bunch

[urban meadow]

Yeah, he did Kid Icarus, Rygar, and Double Dragon.

[burnt karma]

Well thank you for that, I have some downloading to do now

[hasty river]

And Blaster Master and Super Dodgeball and Chip 'n Dale

[clever scarab]

I thought Nintendo did one of those

[hasty river]

and Double Dragon II

[clever scarab]

Wait, didn’t Tecmo do those

I’m so confused

[burnt karma]

Double Dragon 2 that's great

[hasty river]

Shh you're gonna dox him

[urban meadow]

He's also working on Life Force right now.

[clever scarab]

I thought that game came out years ago

[burnt karma]

I am hoping someone does the original Ninja Turtles. I know, perhaps not the greatest game in human history, but a fave from childhood times

[hasty river]

https://tenor.com/view/good-boy-pat-mad-angry-pissed-off-gif-17387351

[clever scarab]

You know, if we join forces and take over the world, we can make it be the greatest game in human history.

Who would oppose us?

[burnt karma]

Seems like a lot of effort...

[clever scarab]

Yeah but winners write the history books

[urban meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-gary-oldman-everyone-gif-14317847

[hasty river]

Shredder

[clever scarab]

@burnt karma I got your back, boo

Don’t let these bullies scare us

[hasty river]

https://www.udio.com/songs/oPy8Z9nLzBLTmiDFZEbaoV?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

Of all my dumb songs that one is by far the most popular apparently