NEC PC Engine / TGFX16

[true flare]

Assuming you mean Crater Maze, it was apparently based on Kid no Horehore Daisakusen and the US version restored the arcade graphics. Although tcrf claims they just ripped off the arcade game.

[grand moss]

That's the one

The Doraemon version seemed more fun to me

Can't explain why.

[random beacon]

I looked up the credits on MobyGames and Shigeki Fujiwara is listed as the lead designer for both Doremon and Cratermaze. He also worked with both Nichibutsu and Hudson Soft and was the director of the arcade version of Kid no Horehore Daisakusen.

He also worked on some of the early Nichibutsu games like Moon Cresta.

The TCRF site actually mentions Shigeki Fujiwara, but still assumes he ripped off the game.

[blazing hatch]

Well, his own game. It's rather like an unofficial Arcade to TG-16 port

I didn't know all of that. I always thought that Cratermaze was a watered down westernized version of Doraemon. Now I know that Doraemon is kind of a ripoff of a Nichibutsu arcade game. And Cratermaze more or less a direct probably unofficial port.

[grand moss]

A lot of what Hudson and NEC Avenue did were arcade ports, so if there was an arcade port, it wouldn't have been unofficial

They would've had access to the original assets and source code (in most cases).

If you can read Japanese, there is an excellent write-up of the trials and tribulations of porting R-Type to PC Engine within the pages of Hudson Densetsu 3 (by Iwasaki Hiromasa who worked at Hudson)

The machine was originally considered to be a good home console for porting games to give "as close as possible" feel to the original arcade versions, and they took that seriously

Having said all that, I didn't know that Cratermaze was an arcade title to begin with

And clearly, they felt that it was at its core a good game, but with licensing Doraemon, it could be made better - and indeed, I felt it was better. Maybe the music helped.

[tardy pecan]

question

what system card I need to boot into Akumajo Dracula PEKE?

https://castlevania.fandom.com/wiki/Akumajyo_Dracula_Peke

tl;dr it's a joke game that boots up instead of Rondo of Blood when you launch the game with the wrong system card

[worn spindle]

Castlevania Rondo of Blood used the Super CD-ROM² (ver. 3.00), so in order to get the joke game you need to use an older system card BIOS.

[true iris]

You want the System Card, not Super System Card. That's all you need to do.

[sturdy geode]

is there something known about a problem loading a CD? for me the game stuck always at the "Just a moment..." screen and does not go any further

I use CHD

[grand moss]

That could be a million different possibilities. One is that your image is bad

[sturdy geode]

I can rule out a bad image. The very same images worked yesterday. All of a sudden I cant get any CD game past the loading screen.

[dreamy tiger]

What are they stored on?

Have you run update all or anything like that between yesterday and today?

[grand moss]

Yeah, I see no legitimate reason why it would stop working if it was working before

[dreamy tiger]

Unless it is a problem with the image because whatever you’re storing it on flipped a bit

that would be my first suspicion if the image was working with the core yesterday

because nothing has changed on the mister side unless you haven’t updated in 6 weeks or so

[coarse shadow]

Yeah, this can happen. I remember a few games that worked fine, but a few month later not. Just re-copying the same CD image fixed the issue.

[sturdy geode]

external usb drive

I update every sunday

[dreamy tiger]

I would try a new image as nothing has changed in the core or mister main in the last week

[steel ibex]

Maybe try a different storage device as well to rule that out.

[sturdy geode]

As soon as I am over that Flu Attack, I will have a deeper look

[spark osprey]

did you try just turning the MiSTer off and back on 😅

[sturdy geode]

a few times

[spark osprey]

damn, I'm out of ideas

[sturdy geode]

Okay, a little followup here. CD Games work again. I always had loaded the core via the Console Autoboot option. Now I was looking into the Core list and found, that at some point I must have downloaded a unstable version, that was still in the folder along with the stable version. I tried both and the unstable version was the one that had problems loading disc images. This unstable build was from about april this year. Now it seems that Autoboot was always using the unstable version. But why? Isn't it supposed to use the stable core?

Now that I have deleted the unstable core, all works normal again

[grand moss]

I have no idea how autoboot works; never used it

But glad to hear you're back up and running !

[cunning flume]

It's an MGL file that loads a mister themed rom for the system it's for.

[grand moss]

There are a lot of complexities I prefer not to know about.
But in this case, probably the MGL had a pointer to the unstable core which messed things up.

[cunning flume]

MGL files just reference cores by their basename, so if you have multiple cores of the same basename in the same directory, like mixing stables and unstables, it's upto main to figure out which to use, and that may not be what you're expecting.

Best not to mix multiple versions of cores in the same directory if you're using mgl files

[sturdy geode]

that must be it.

[random beacon]

TCRF page just assumed it was a ripoff, despite the original creator working on it. I highly doubt it's a ripoff with the original creator and the arcade assets used in the Cratermaze version. Though Cratermaze is definitely a localization of the Doraemon version. Even some of the dialog seems to be directly translated, despite the graphical changes. The flying machine is still referred to as a magic carpet.

though both Doremon/Cratermaze and the original arcade game it's based on (as well as Booby Kids on NES and GB) owe quite a bit to Heiankyo Alien.

[turbid sinew]

Should I play bonk3 cd or the regular version?

[worn spindle]

Either version is fine. It basically boils down to whether you want more frames of animation from the HuCard release or the red book music from the CD release.

[turbid sinew]

Which has the nicer music overall?

[grand moss]

Why not both ?

[steel ibex]

Wow, I wouldn't have expected that the HuCard version had more animation.

I've never really played much of the Bonk series, just a bit of the first game. I really need to change that.

[blazing hatch]

Maybe like Daisenpu. Using the normal CD ROM system rather took away from the available RAM because of the need for buffering CD data.

Using the Super CD ROM system was the solution to that problem. That added more RAM and really increased the available memory.

Hmm. I just looked it up: Bonk III was indeed a NA exclusive Super CD game

Thus it is surprising that frames of animation would be missing. There should be plenty of RAM to show all of it

[dark wharf]

i would play the hucard versions of both bonk 3 and daisenpuu

the cd versions always felt jank to me lol

[turbid sinew]

its v fun actually

the sequel builds on the first one quite well too

[turbid sinew]

after playing a bit i realised the correct answer was neither

bonk fell off

[pseudo rivet]

I liked (and pretty much mastered) Bonk 1. Then later played through Bonk 2 but I barely remember any of it anymore.

i have never even touched or played 5 minutes of Bonk 3.. maybe I should do that

[blazing hatch]

I like Bonk 1 for its simplicity. Adding stuff is not always a good idea.

Even optically the later ones are more "dense", but not necessarily more beautiful

[grand moss]

Download

[regal valley]

a very quotable game

[dreamy tiger]

I didn't realize bonk was so edgy

[regal valley]

in this game, you pilot a flying Akira motorcyle

[blazing hatch]

I have to play download 2 at some point

Technically maybe "less" but bonkers enough it seems

[turbid sinew]

2 was fun in a different way

But I agree 1 was a nice simple platformer

[grand moss]

I remember starting to look at potentially translating that once. It has an intro scene that's like 12 minutes long or something....

Needless to say... I stopped there

[dark wharf]

if you think download is crazy just wait until you see the plot of download 2 lol

[stiff lotus]

Download 2: Torrent harder

[random beacon]

I like the first two TG-16 Bonks and the GB game that feels like a remix of the first two games. I read that the US Bonk and EU BC Kid versions of the GB game are identical and a flag in the header decides which title screen shows up.

[stiff lotus]

What’s the best Bonk? First one?

How are the ones on other platforms?

[random beacon]

Probably the first or second on PCE. NES one is ok, but not as good as PCE and definitely not worth the US asking price.

[dark wharf]

the snes bonk games are alright

[random beacon]

I did like what I played of 3 as well, but I'm not sure about that growing big thing. Super Bonk 1 on SNES has that same gimmick as Bonk 3.

Was a bit disappointed in the second GB game. 1 bonus round, choosing power ups instead of upgrades, and most bosses can be defeated by staying in one place and bonking.

[worn spindle]

The growing giant gimmick always came off as fodder for screenshots in magazines.

"Look at how huge the sprites are, waow!!"

[turbid sinew]

i just beat that one in one sitting lmao

i was trying to figure out who actually made which games. seems like they fell off after 'a.i. co' took over the reins bc bonk 1 and bonk 2 are excellent

also i hear zonk 1 is very good

[grand moss]

Bonk was Red/Hudson

Which was eaten up by Konami around year 2000 or so

[random beacon]

It's a bit more compliated than that, according to the actual game credits. AFAIK, Red has never developed a single game by themselves.

Keisuke Abe worked on the first two Bonk games, and only appeared in special thanks for Bonk 3.

[grand moss]

Red was the characters, Hudson developed

[random beacon]

though, He also directed a couple Tempo games, where are also credited to Red

[turbid sinew]

yeah i was just reading through that. super bonk 2 seems like a lot of new ppl so that makes sense why it's so different to everything else

[random beacon]

apparently some Atlus involvement, but not sure what the extent

Kazutoshi Ueda (who designed Mr. Do) was also involved with a couple of the earlier Bonk games.

[steel ibex]

Even after all these years, it's still hard for me to think of Hudson IP as Konami IP.

Like seeing the Konami logo on a Bomberman game still throws me for a loop.

[coarse shadow]

I think the best Bonk is the second PCE game. But i like the Amiga port of Bonk 1 (B.C. Kid) too, it uses the improved graphics style from the second PCE game.

[dark wharf]

wow, the amiga version looks and sounds pretty nice

funny that i've finally found an amiga game that actually looks fun and it's just a port from another system

[grand moss]

That's because they've mostly given up on it

and yeah, completely not Konami's personality

[steel ibex]

I don't know if I'd go that far. They've released two new games in the series over the last generation of consoles. Not a ton of Bomberman, but not exactly giving up on it either.

[regal valley]

there are good Amiga games... Moonstone is pretty fun once you learn the moves

[regal valley]

https://newsdee.itch.io/kex

so I made a thing 🙂

[languid geyser]

Nice!

[dreamy tiger]

Not much here beyond the headline, but super interesting all the same https://www.timeextension.com/news/2025/11/it-should-have-been-ours-street-fighter-2-was-supposed-to-be-a-turbografx-16-exclusive-claims-former-tti-president

Interesting to think what the world would have looked like, I mean

[stiff lotus]

Thank god that never happened.

Sounds like everyone loses if that had happened.

[dark wharf]

nah, this would've been awesome. everyone would have to buy the superior turboCHAD-16 to get the street fighter II experience at home, and hudson soft would still be a household name to this day

[stiff lotus]

well the TG16 is pretty badass

[dreamy tiger]

We could have had proper portable SF2 rather than those tiger handhelds

Tiger Handheld core when.

[regal valley]

eh, even if that worked out, they would have made another bad marketing decision and tank their chances 😄

[sterile flame]

We had a couple of users who could use all cores but oddly couldn’t just run Turbografx-16 (one didn’t boot, the other had issues like address error), with a de10-nano and mister pi.

I wonder if the knowledgeable devs here have any insight of what could be, as nearly all the blackbox testing suspects were ruled out (bad ROM, BIOS, mem frequency etc) and it’s just this core
#help message

#help message

[humble dagger]

I am the guy who had a problem with turbografx core with mister pi batch 5. I tried to see if older core would work on and found out 20200326 is the last one that will work without screen glitch. Next core revision of 20200517 along few others and the latest will malfunction on my mister.

[random beacon]

I have to check, but isn't it already playable in the newer Game and Watch core? Odd thing is that the older core updated recently.

[dreamy tiger]

We updated it because it didn't work on new boards. it's just a framework update, no compatability changes. agg23's core is still probably the more complete of the 2. Maybe, now that the framework has been updated, someone will come back to the mister-devel version

[random beacon]

oh cool. The old one does work on CRTs, which is nice, though it's understandable why the newer one doesn't.

[dreamy tiger]

yeah, the new build should too. should also run on CRTs for folks with the new board

[random beacon]

I guess the board with the Mister PI counts as the new one? I found out the hard way that the old unofficial SMS core doesn't work on CRTs with it.

[dreamy tiger]

yeah

I wonder what the split of boards is now, with how many stacks taki has sold

[grand moss]

I'm curious what might have changed - board layout or bill of materials - given that this is the first time PC Engine was affected, and it's a specific hardware revision

I would kind of guess that it's SDRAM chips.

[dreamy tiger]

I wouldn't fall down that hole yet. My batch 5 mister pi runs the core just fine

we also haven't heard of anyone else having trouble

[grand moss]

Oh, I thought I saw on the other channel that it happened to several boards in that batch

[dreamy tiger]

I only pinged you in case there was something we could focus in on for the RMA process since it's almost certainly something hardware related

[grand moss]

If you want to focus in on something, I'd try to swap out the SDRAM board for another one and see if that fixes it.

[dreamy tiger]

not this issue as far as I'm aware. the n64 issue was on a lot of boards with batch 1. I can remember 2 issues with the tgfx16 core in the last few months

[dreamy tiger]

can't, it's soldered on (I suspect there is an issue there but memtest reports no errors at 160 for an hour)

but I also wonder if memtest needs to be tuned for BGA ram or whatever

[grand moss]

Well, I'd suspect that the chips are either a different manufacturer or specification, or even different speed rating. Some but not all memory being corrupted points to an incompatibility in SDRAM controller and chips.

Different trace lengths (and widths!) could also affect the speed of return signals, or timing of signal availablity

[dreamy tiger]

yep. that is my suspicion. and it's likely a defect rather than a systemic problem because it's only one report (and, as mentioned, my board from that batch runs the core fine)

[grand moss]

OK, I'll buy that

[sterile flame]

It’s maybe not related at all, but there was a different issue (not booting pc engine) but just odd as again everything else worked #help message

[grand moss]

Could even be due to variance in width of trace between boards

Electronics gets pretty picky above 100MHz

[toxic mortar]

I've been doing speedruns of Cross Wiber - Cyber Combat Police and notice there is some glitching on the top part of the screen when some screens come in.

Wondering if this occurs on console, I don't seem to see it on MESEN.

You can see it right away on the title screen. I'm on the stable release from 250830.

[dark wharf]

does it happen if you let the intro finish playing without skipping?

found a few videos of the game captured from real hardware and it doesn't happen there, but they're not skipping the intro like in your clip

[toxic mortar]

No, it doesn't seem to. It happens on a bunch of normal stages too when they load.

[errant pilot]

Doesn't seem to happen here on my CoreGrafx

[toxic mortar]

Cool, so it might be a core bug then

[dreamy tiger]

yeah, I would file a bug

[toxic mortar]

I don't have a github account

[dreamy tiger]

Ok, I'll file it

@toxic mortar where else have you noticed it?

just on leading stages?

same area of the screen?

[dreamy tiger]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/TurboGrafx16_MiSTer/issues/251

[toxic mortar]

Right when stages start, I think it's occurring with the fade in, seems to be every stage, just hard to see on some

[grand moss]

It happens on Core Grafx if you skip the intro

Same as MiSTer

[dreamy tiger]

interesting that it didn't happen on @errant pilot's test #1073797664195494028 message

[grand moss]

I don't believe it happens if you don't skip the intro

[dreamy tiger]

MP2E skipped the intro in their video

[grand moss]

Well, it's certainly happening here

[dreamy tiger]

weird. computers ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[errant pilot]

Nice! Interesting to hear it happens for you, maybe it’s something to do with the Super HD System 3 Pro I’m using.. it samples digital video output from the expansion port so maybe that changes things in this instance

But I think it’s accurate if it’s happening for dshadoff

[grand moss]

yeah, must be

[dreamy tiger]

yup, I will close the issue

[grand moss]

I think it's palette-update related.

I'll bet you don't see shimmering on the surface of the lake at the beginning of level 5 of Dracula X (on SHDS3)

[errant pilot]

Yeah, I think you're right. Here's what Stage 5 looks like on SHDS3P

[dark wharf]

terraonion delivering top quality as usual

[grand moss]

Yeah, they are missing out on the deliberate palette-update artifacts on that level

See what it looks like on MiSTer - it's pretty close to original hardware, but not identical

Anyway, I've got to go out for the evening - I'll check in when I get home

[grand moss]

I saw that, but have no idea whether it actually fixes the issue some people were having (on batch 5 MiSTerPi).

[grand moss]

I wonder if these codes work on the PC Engine version ?

https://www.segasaturnshiro.com/2025/12/09/under-the-microscope-steam-hearts/

[steel ibex]

We could go totally ape poop and rename this thread to Konami PC Engine.

[dreamy tiger]

NEC PC Engine / TGFX16

[true iris]

TGFX? why isn't it just TG16?

[slim yew]

What about the SuperGrafx?

Or the Duo?

[coarse shadow]

Or the CoreGrafx

[dreamy tiger]

Name of the core is TGFX16

[slim yew]

to be fair, there was a lot of discussion relatively recently specifically around the cd timings

[true iris]

At least it's not TGPHICS16. Damn newbs always spelling it wrong.

[dreamy tiger]

Again, like the genesis, it’s the better name

🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[coarse shadow]

I'm surprised they never sold a Super Turbo Genesis in the USA. Their marketing "experts" were on a different level. And not a good one...

[cobalt kindle]

Why wasn't it called the Mega Drive in the US? Seems like Mega is better than Super?

[coarse shadow]

There was already a company with that name registered in the USA, or a product. Something like that.

[steel ibex]

Also, don't forget that the Genesis/Mega Drive released quite a bit earlier than the SNES. So it's not like they knew how the marketing could work for a super vs mega battle.

[dreamy tiger]

they didn't call it the mega drive because they knew it was a lame name

[cobalt kindle]

Oooh shots fired!

[steel ibex]

And just look at the success in North America! Best selling region!

It was the genesis of a new era.

[dreamy tiger]

that's just science at work

[cobalt kindle]

Must've appealed to all those early Phil Collins fans

[steel ibex]

But yeah, I just like Genesis because that's what it was called here. Mega Drive is a cool name too, but it's hard for me to ever think of the console with that name.

[cobalt kindle]

That's a completely fair and valid reason to like that name

[steel ibex]

After all, Genesis does what Nintendon't.

[dreamy tiger]

for all we know, megadrive does exactly what nintendoes

[worldly drum]

genesis denesis what nintenesis

[true iris]

Did a recap of my Vistar tonight. I think I prefer the MiSTer. Less maintenance 😊

[random beacon]

Odd that it credits companies that localized anime for the US.

(though those are from the JP version and have nothing to do with the fan translation)

[dark wharf]

iirc media works is the only one out of those companies to have ever published any anime, so maybe they helped with the in-game cutscenes? i know emerald dragon has a good amount of them

[steel ibex]

Right Stuff brought over several anime back in the day. Stuff like The Irresponsible Captain Tylor.

[dark wharf]

i thought that was right stuf, a different company?

[steel ibex]

Oh, nevermind. I thought that was them.

[dark wharf]

lol it's a one-letter difference so i can't blame you

[steel ibex]

Blame me. Shame me!

[grand moss]

Different company

[summer rivet]

You idiot

||😏 ❤️||

[grand moss]

It's long-awaited, but to be honest, both my original translator and this guy found that it got really grindy at a certain point.
So, it's more like a 1990-gameplay RPG published with 1994 graphics

Everybody who has ever owned a Japnese PC Engine (in an english-speaking country) has always wanted this translation

[stiff lotus]

That is very cool, I am very happy for all five of you

omg I’m sorry, I am awful lolol

[grand moss]

There are dozens of us ! Dozens !

[dark wharf]

that's rude robby. there's at least 6 of us

in all seriousness, emerald dragon is a pretty cool RPG. it's no final fantasy, but a very good addition to the PCE library nonetheless

[stiff lotus]

PCE kicks ass, the MiSTer core was literally my first time enjoying that system

[summer rivet]

The PCE core is pretty special imo

[dark wharf]

as someone who's owned all manner of PC engine consoles and flash solutions, i can confidently say that the mister core is the best way to experience the system

[grand moss]

I have to agree

[summer rivet]

I might have played it more than the SNES and MD cores

[sterile flame]

Same here, with everyone in this discord praising it, appreciate the push

[dark wharf]

essentially perfect compatibility with the entire library, support for all console variants and expansions, color palette options, extra sprites, fast seek times, multiple controller types, CD audio boost, cheat support, etc.

it really doesn't get any better than this

[grand moss]

Well, there's still no "Illust Booster" support...

and some of the unreleased hardware isn't in there

But it's 99.9% or better

[dark wharf]

we'll have to figure out how to connect an etch a sketch to the mister

[stiff lotus]

Oh shit, that peripheral sounds super cool - https://www.pcengine.co.uk/HTML_Games/Artist_Tool.htm

[grand moss]

Yeah, and the GPS is only partially understood, so it's not implemented.

And the Tsushin Booster (modem) hasn't been implemented either.

[steel ibex]

I always wanted one back in the 90s, but we couldn't justify having one when we already had both a Genesis and SNES. My first time actually playing TG16 games was on the Wii Virtual Console. Then I had the TG16 Mini console. But the MiSTer is where I put the most time into it by far!

[night breach]

Question: Since RGB Colors is known to be somewhat extra saturated, does the core have options to dial down the colors to bring it closer to what composite/S-Video looks like?

[dark wharf]

there's an option for composite colors in the menu

[grand moss]

It's already the default.

[night breach]

Oh really?? Gotta try it out

[grand moss]

In "Audio & Video", it's the "Colors" choice - "Original" or "Raw RGB".

"Original" is the composite/SVideo palette

[night breach]

Oh that’s where it is. Does this apply also to analog output?

[dark wharf]

yes

it's not like terraonion's device (thankfully)

[night breach]

I wonder if we can like… add resistors to the output of RGB mods and the Terraonion
. I personally did that noise mod for the first release batch

[dark wharf]

personally once i got my mister and tried the PCE core, i sold my SHDS3P right away. i had sold my SSDS3 earlier that year as well

[summer rivet]

Imagine playing the PCE on anything but the MiSTer or original hardware

[regal valley]

I wanted to like the PCE mini, and it has a nice menu, but it doesn't feel as responsive as the FPGA core

[true iris]

I've been recapping PCE and TG systems all week. I've got like 20 of the things and I still use the MiSTer to play. 😊

[stiff lotus]

I had one before MiSTer and absolutely loved the thing but yeah I can’t go back now lol

[steel ibex]

My biggest issue with the TG16 Mini was the horrible pixel scaling due to the 720p output. Play Ys and Adol's eyes would be razor thin at one position on the screen and then super wide after walking to the side a bit making him look all derpy.

All the mini consoles had that problem honestly.

[dark wharf]

non-integer scaling on retro devices is unacceptable tbh

[blazing heath]

Hello. Has anyone tried the newly released Emerald Dragon on real hardware ? There seems to be some bugs on subtitles on cutscenes. For the context, I don't know if there is technical reasons or necessity, but sometimes subtitles have a black background added, sometimes not. On Ares emulator, when the black background are on, there is no problem, but mister and mesen behave exactly the same, the black background triggers some bugs. Here are screenshots, the first from ares, the others from mesen (same behavior on mister). Before report a bug on patch GitHub, I'd like to know if this is accurate to hardware. Thanks to all

[steel ibex]

I didn't encounter that issue in my current play through.

[dark wharf]

the same hacker has done translations of a few other PC engine games using what looks to be a similar subtitle engine, i wonder if the issue is present there?

[steel ibex]

You sure you don't have something like extra sprites enabled?

[dark wharf]

oh yeah that would be a good start

[steel ibex]

I'm a few hours into the game and haven't encountered any issues.

[dark wharf]

extra sprites are nice but sometimes they seem to do more harm than good

godsend in games like r-type though

[blazing heath]

Good catch guys, ares has sprite limit, mister and mesen had not. Problem solved 😅

[grand moss]

News to me. supper tested on mesen and Mednafen; maybe you're using older versions of the emulators ? Ares is known not to be 100% accurate. Current Mesen is the best for accuracy.

Yeah, all of the emus can add extra sprites, but it's always best to use "normal limits" for sprites

[stiff lotus]

MiSTer wins again!

[turbid sinew]

damn you mister

[primal inlet]

Is there hardware for dumping Hucards?

[true flare]

An ssds3 will do it.

[primal inlet]

Is there a cheaper option? I ask because I know someone who worked for a company that released/published games on the console and it just occurred to me that some of the stuff in their collection might be either prototypes or localizations that never released

[faint dagger]

I think about the RetroBlaster Mini, with the cartridge adapter.

Or a USB Tengu Dumper/Programer (from ToToTek).

[slender bluff]

@grand moss and @desert oriole will no doubt find this interesting, if your friend does indeed have undumped cards and could likely offer assistance to get them dumped properly.

[grand moss]

Yeah, there have been many different solution over the decades, but the bulk of HuCard extraction was done in the 90s on Super Magic Griffin and Multi Game Doctor machines (which have almost certianly become less reliable over the years)

I would be interested to hear what sort of stuff is thought to exist in that collection

[true iris]

I just wired a HuCard slot directly to a ribbon cable and IC frame, which popped into my EPROM reader. I think I still have it.

[pale eagle]

Does Castlevania Rondo of Blood have known problems on the Mister core? I'm getting some graphical glitches during the introduction scene and main menu. The problem occurs both with and without the English patch, and I think I'm using the recommended Japanese v3.00 BIOS. The problem seems the same whether the files are in CHD, BIN/CUE, or ISO/WAV/CUE format .

[faint dagger]

Could we have some screenshots ?
I played that game, like last week with the latest unstable core, but I generally skip the introduction and never seen an issue in-game though.
I can take a look later today.

[graceful root]

Haven’t fired it up in a while but it definitely didn’t in the past. It’s probably the most launched PCEngine core game so people would be bitching for sure

[turbid sinew]

Yea I didn’t notice any issues when I played it on mister a while ago

[worn spindle]

Turn off extra sprites

[stiff lotus]

It does not. It’s an issue on your end. Either bad dump or you have some config option that causes issues. Delete your tg16 cfg and try again.

[steel ibex]

Checking that you don't have extra sprites turned on is always the first thing you should do in trouble shooting graphical issues on the core. It...it's not like I've ever run into that problem! ||(laughs nervously) ||

[grand moss]

People think they want stuff like that but it is never a full solution

[stiff lotus]

Literally my first experience with MiSTer was playing Sonic the Hedgehog with the sprite limit turned off and the intro was corrupted in that game.

I honestly thought the MiSTer was at fault here because I’d never seen that on other emulators.

My knee jerk and probably wrong take here is that we shouldn’t have any options that could negatively impact how a game is functioning because of experiences like that.

But I think better UI management of gating those options behind more explicit menus that informs people that turning that one will break some games is probably the best course of action.

I mean we see it pop up all the time here. People have extra sprites turned on and then come here to complain about the MiSTer being wrong.

We just do a poor job of handling advanced functions and informing people they are modifying the original experience which will cause issues.

But this is also a hobby project done by people for free out of their own spare time. So I guess it would be unfair to expect to handle every single edge case and be prescient about how the average person will interact with the menu options.

[magic stump]

I think PSX core did it quite well with the (U) flag being set/shown if something was changed that potentially can break games

[steel ibex]

I think the pop-up flag should say "Why you gotta be like dat?"

[turbid sinew]

Or have a seperate core like n64 does

I never bothered trying that one

[stiff lotus]

Yes, that is quite good.

[stiff lotus]

I actually like this idea a lot but probably not developer or maintaining-friendly.

[grand moss]

Well, we do make all the settings default to be as close to original hardware as possible.

[dark wharf]

like corn said, i think the PSX core's approach is the best; having the options that could potentially cause issues be labelled "unsafe"

[grand moss]

Well, that's really most of them

[pale eagle]

Here is an example of the corruption I am getting in the introduction scene of Rondo of Blood. I checked and the option "Extra Sprites per Line" is disabled.

[dreamy tiger]

Do you have a mister pi

that you received recently

[pale eagle]

Yes, I am using a recent Mister Pi, from batch 5.

[dark wharf]

weren't some of the previous batches struggling with an SDRAM-related issue on the PC engine core

[dreamy tiger]

yeah, that's a problem with that board, unfortunately. you need to reach out to retroremake. they have a less accurate version of the core that fixes the issue

I haven't heard any updates on that

[dark wharf]

yikes

[dreamy tiger]

it has to do with the BGA ram on the batch 5 board specifically

not sure what they changed there, if anything

(could have just been a bad batch of ram)

[dark wharf]

i see, interesting

[dreamy tiger]

I guess I shouldn't say that it's less accurate. They moved the data out of the sd ram, but I believe it was moved there for accuracy reasons

but either way, it's not a public version of the core. I don't think it's been shared anywhere

[pale eagle]

Thanks a lot for the info, I'll look into this custom version of the core.

[dreamy tiger]

[email protected] I believe

[hollow trellis]

guess i better make sure to check later, too, though i have an earlier, non bga ram model

[graceful root]

We need to introduce the “MiSTer seal of quality” to protect the MiSTer brand from bad clones 😉

[regal valley]

the big challenge is how do you introduce that without making it a nightmare to maintain for all devs

for exampe (just my first random idea) make it simple to add an extra flag in an option in the config string... and the MiSTer framework will pop up a box saying ("some games may experience issues")

[dreamy tiger]

it is, as far as I know, only batch 5 that’s affected. Pretty sure I tested my batch 3 and batch 4 with BGA ram

[faint dagger]

I asked for a test on the SS1 too, just for our own knowledge.

[dreamy tiger]

Do you have someone with one? Or did you ask Taki?

[faint dagger]

I asked on the Discord.

I wanted to test it at the same time as the Turbo N64 core.

[dreamy tiger]

gotcha

[primal inlet]

Put it under an "advanced" submenu

[grand moss]

Not a solution. Everybody will indiscriminately go in there anyway

Each of the options messes with something somewhere.

There is a game (Kiki KaiKai maybe ?) that won't start if a multitap is plugged in.

That's about as vanilla as it gets.

And then after setting something up in there, and finding it doesn't break the first game they play... they'll leave it like that and forget about it.

One day, a game will break and they won't remember having gone into game-breaking settings (or may argue that it didn't break the other games....)

[dark wharf]

again i think the PSX core does it best. the options are labelled as unsafe and a warning appears in the corner of the screen when booting a game

[summer rivet]

And yet people still occasionally post issues when running with an unsafe option 😅

[summer rivet]

This is such a terrible idea

unless it was discussed with the core devs and makes it into main

But forking a core to work around borked hardware is dumb

[dreamy tiger]

I was under the impression that this was a temporary thing, but I haven’t seen any updates about it

[pale eagle]

While waiting for a response from retro remake, I ran the SDRAM test core to see if I could detect any problem (BGA RAM is the SDRAM and bot the DDR?) It seems fine at 160MHz, but glitches out if I go to higher frequency. Does this tell us anything useful about whether I have a RAM problem?

[sterile flame]

I'm ignorant in these things but the batch 5 owners who had issues with this core, their memtest ran fine, so guess it's not the frequency

[stiff lotus]

Is the ram bad

[pallid kestrel]

Is it me or Taki MiSTer's pop up around this server very often with core problems?
That, and the repulsive "batch" thing... I always wished that a way cheaper MiSTer clone would appear, but well...

[stiff lotus]

well complainers are going to be loudest so we won’t be seeing people say “everything is perfect”, and I assume the mister pi clones are bought more by people who frequent this discord or are likely to join it

But yeah, it started off having incompatibilities, which were fixed, and continues to have minor issues here and there. It’s the result of being a clone.

If you don’t do things exactly like the original hardware use the same exact components, there will be inconsistencies.

[faint dagger]

The SS1 doesn't have that issue, after requesing some tests from early users.

[dreamy tiger]

It seems to be only batch 5 mister pi stacks.

Again, I haven’t seen any updates on this particular bug, but the last thing taki mentioned was that he thought it might be similar to the n64 bug with batch 1 ram sticks. Would require an update to the core, but I don’t know why has happened beyond that.

[stiff lotus]

That’s awesome

Also very reassuring

[dreamy tiger]

I only know about this bespoke version of the tg16 core because someone else with the problem mentioned it

[stiff lotus]

There’s a different tg16 core out there

[dreamy tiger]

Have they responded to you at all?

[dreamy tiger]

Yeah, taki built one that (as I understand it) stores the rom in bram. But (to my knowledge) no one (outside of the folks who write to Taki with this issue) has seen it.

[stiff lotus]

lol why would anyone use that

I guess the lol makes me sound insincere but that’s actually a sincere question

[dreamy tiger]

@humble dagger did taki send you the working tg16 build?

[graceful root]

I’d ask for a new misterpi instead, who knows what other problems you’ll hit

[dreamy tiger]

Well, in theory, if this fix is another shift situation, then maybe David and SRG will accept a PR, and it will be fixed for batch 5 folks. I think it's unlikely that they will accept the ram revert, though

[stiff lotus]

I mean if it can be fixed in software and people don’t mind then great but it sounds like they should probably test their stuff better before they mass produce and sell it to people

Or maybe I’m being ignorant, I dunno

[dreamy tiger]

yeah, I think there is definitely a labor mismatch there. it felt like their support and testing system was already strained, and that likely is made worse by the fact that they are heads down shipping super stations at the moment

[stiff lotus]

Ah yeah really good point

super understandable

And they are trying to provide a solution so that’s nice

[dreamy tiger]

I don’t think that makes it ok, but I do think it’s maybe a reason. But I have my own problems with how taki runs his support

[grand moss]

There was a build in the early days where the ROM is stored in DDR. It was people who didn't have SDRAM. It was a compile with a particular "ifdef" setting on.

[grand moss]

It would have to be srg, because I'm neither owner of the repo, nor am I an expert in SDRAM. The whole scenario makes me feel a bit odd about it though. If they came with decisive information about what exactly is happening, and therefore what needs to be fixed, and ensured that the change didn't affect existing boards, I would feel better. But I don't believe that anybody has that information in their hands.

[dreamy tiger]

Yeah, and (as far as I know) this bespoke build's code is not anywhere public

so I am going off of information that someone (who had the issue) was told by taki's support

[grand moss]

Yeah, "a friend of a friend said..."

[dreamy tiger]

yeah exactly

I assume he hasn't spoken to you. I wonder if he spoke to SRG about it.

[grand moss]

No, I haven't heard anything specific

[humble dagger]

he did send me a test build which worked with storage set at ddr3, however it did not have supergrafx support.

[dreamy tiger]

Did pce cd work? I’m wondering if you can share it with @pale eagle as they are waiting to hear back from retro remake support

[humble dagger]

https://github.com/Takiiiiiiii/TurboGrafx16_MiSTer/actions/runs/20068513717

[humble dagger]

yes cd worked

[dreamy tiger]

thanks duder. I wondered if it was on a branch, but I wasn't sure which one

[grand moss]

Yeah, storage set at DDR3 was working better than expected; srg320 was expecting that some games wouldn't work because DDR3 latency

But I don't think anybody found actual cases

And soon after that, everybody ended up getting SDRAM modules

[primal inlet]

Is it a problem with the Mister or a problem with the RAM he used?

[dreamy tiger]

It’s definitely a ram problem, buts not a problem with any of the other batches that had soldered on ram, so maybe something weird about that batch

[grand moss]

There have been various RAM weirdnesses over the years, so let's try to avoid the word "problem". "Incompatibility" might work better here.

That RAM seems to pass the RAMtest, so it's definitely not testing the same things that the TG16 core does

[stiff lotus]

Yeah, I like that a lot

[dreamy tiger]

yeah, good shout - there is something in the current batch of ram that is incompatible with how the TG16 core does its thing. But it's on the hardware side, not the core side

[grand moss]

Is it a phase difference ? A capacitor issue ? Nobody knows.

[dreamy tiger]

memtest is not the silver bullet it once was

[grand moss]

Knowing that would require running definitive analysis on the actual signals (which are buried under a BGA), using modern test equipment (which is expensive and few people posess)

And thirdly, understanding high-speed signal design

I don't have access to any of those three things

For all we know, it's RAM that has different timing requirements (i.e. setup and hold) than the usual one; that would likely be apparent from the datasheets, assuming that the markings on the chips was original.

I've gotta say, in recent years, I've seen a lot of counterfeit chips be discussed in "relatively good" supply chains, so it's a tough business to keep your supply chain clean and trustworthy.

Don't even talk about Amazon and eBay sources, AliExpress, and small-time Shenzhen markets. Probably can't trust those very far at all.

[graceful root]

Oh yeah I always like that on Adrian’s digital basement when he scrubs the paint off the fake chips with ipa. Some are even laser etched but they didn’t get the font or whatever the same so he can tell having worked with originals a lot. The volume of fake / rebadged chips seems incredible

[stiff lotus]

Wow even counterfeit ram?

[grand moss]

Even counterfeit op-amps. It's crazy

Any chip that they think is in any sort of demand, they'll see if something is "compatible" in any sort of a way - pinout, etc. Sometimes they don't even look at power supply requirements

They think that they can somehow sell it to someone who won't be able to tell the difference

Here's how bad they are, especially for things like RAM:

https://x.com/kenshirriff/status/899663001619267584?s=20

Ken Shirriff (@kenshirriff)

A vintage RAM chip turns out to be counterfeit. Inside I find a Touch-Tone phone dialer!
Details: https://t.co/bmqOp9HM83
@babbageboole

X · Aug 21, 2017, 4:02 PM

[pale eagle]

Thanks for sharing. Retroremake did get back to me with a copy of that same custom core file. Unfortunately it did not solve my graphical glitches, and I've yet to hear anything more from them.

[humble dagger]

did you switch storage to ddr3 in the option? otherwise it will have same issue

[pale eagle]

Thanks for the tip - graphical glitches in the Rondo of Blood intro are now gone, so that looks promising.

If the DDR3 is effectively replacing the CD, then I guess there should be no performance issues compared to SDRAM. But if its being used to emulate the Turbografx RAM that holds data loaded from CD, then latency could be a problem.

[humble dagger]

I was just happy to see that it didn't have graphical glitch. Even if there was latency issue, I couldn't have felt that anyways....

[sick elk]

Enjoying the core. Really never played this console before other than a couple times. About half way thru Beyond Shadowgate and enjoying it quite a bit

[golden edge]

The pce is great. Funny as I only really came across it due to the Johnny Turbo comics.

[coarse shadow]

Completed the translated Emerald Dragon a few days ago. I really enjoyed it. The PC Engine was the first console I bought myself in 1989, and I still love it.

[grand moss]

Ah, one of the originals, welcome !

[coarse shadow]

And now i'm trying to complete your translated "Dead of the Brain". Started it 2 years ago. But all the "look,look, look" on every pixel on the screen was a bit exhausting. But i still like it a lot.

[grand moss]

Yeah, the game is just like that

Try Bazaru de Gozaru too - completely different type of game, but fun in its own way

[coarse shadow]

Had a look on youtube. Reminds me a bit of The Humans or Lemmings.

[sick elk]

I really wanna play Dead of the Brain, when I saw there was a translation out I downloaded it right away, Maybe I'll start that one up today. Is the 2nd one a direct sequel to the first?

[grand moss]

The second one is a sequel, but I've only translated the first game on PC Engine. I think there's a translation of DotB2 for PC-98 though

[golden edge]

Dead of the Brain is a good description of how I feel today

[steel ibex]

Would be cool to get Dead of the Brain 2 translated on PCE now that the PC-98 version is translated.

[grand moss]

I'd need a translator. The script is twice the size from DotB 1

I did the first one myself, and it took months.

[sick elk]

Worst case can always try using A.Im translate in retro arch for a play thru if I go thru the sequel. I used it to play thru Belzerion on the 3DO. It wasn't perfect, but it gave me a good enough idea of what was going on and was able to complete the game.

[grand moss]

I'd recommend the PC-98 version over doing that.

https://romhack.ing/database/content/entry/8mqdySG4SSmYlPYefdKZpQ/dead-of-the-brain-2-english-translation

[sick elk]

is the PC-98 easy to use?

Is there a mister core for it?

[steel ibex]

Sadly, no MiSTer core for PC-98. Hopefully some day.

There are a metric ton of english fan translations on PC-98, so it would be a fun core to have.

[dreamy tiger]

Why would OfmanNotMachine want to play PC-98?

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2026/01/30-years-on-the-groundbreaking-and-nsfw-visual-novel-shizuku-has-been-translated-into-english

https://tenor.com/bGtJS.gif

[cunning flume]

There is a pc-98 core, but it's very difficult to use, and in very rough shape and not really able to properly play many (any?) games. Puu has moved onto other things for now, and it's not sure if it'll ever be finished.

[steel ibex]

Ah, it's a Puu core. Yeah, that's dead in the water then.

[sick elk]

I've been noticing that, and that's what's really started to get my interest going in the platform, I'd imagine there are some great emulators for the PC-98 in the meantime though that'll get the job done just fine enough

[dreamy tiger]

oh, they'll get the job done

[golden edge]

I'm sure you could just Google Image Search for the important plot points

[bold swan]

hey, i messaged way back about my mister pi pce core having issues, i see there was some discussion on it, do I have to message support to get the updated core? or is it just that setting

[sterile flame]

I believe so

[dreamy tiger]

You need to get in touch with retroremake

they will send you a forked core that plays nice with their ram

[sick elk]

Man I tried Darkwing Duck, woohoo what a turd 😂

[steel ibex]

When in trouble you call DW!

[dark wharf]

i think the ratio of good games to bad ones on the PC engine is actually pretty good, but man, darkwing duck is definitely up there as one of the worst

[slim yew]

As a fan of the show, I was devastated playing that game.

[grand moss]

There were only a few US-developed, US-only games, and they were mostly crap

[sick elk]

Yeah I was a huge DW fan as a kid and always let down there was never a Sega Genesis DW game, so I was browsing thru and was like OH shit a DW game?!? Sad thing is...I saw it thru to the end and beat it. I must truly hate myself 😂

It's -8 outside, 28 inches of snow out there, I'm stocked on food n drinks, figured what a perfect night to explore a consoles library on the mister.

My favorite part on the final boss is it can't even be bothered to turn around and face you if you get behind it 😂

Sad thing is, if I had a TurboGrafx as a kid, 10 year old me probably would've played the shit out of it anyways 😂

[dark wharf]

i'm so sorry

at least darkwing duck on NES is pretty awesome. if only capcom made the PC engine version too

[sick elk]

I'll have to try out the NES version then.

[sick elk]

So it's like I don't wanna have a good night lol I played China Warrior for a bit. Oh my.

But now playing Legendary Axe and this one is freaking awesome

[dark wharf]

never got into china warrior, felt pretty jank. the big characters are impressive though, for the time i guess

legendary axe and the sequel are awesome

[sick elk]

China Warrior strikes me as Hudson's answer to Kung Fu on the NES or something

[blazing hatch]

I like it quite a bit. It is simple and oldschool-arcadey but doesn't deserve all the hate it gets online. I guess that if I had to choose one for the lost island I would go with Spartan-X/Kung Fu. But at my current home I would rather play a more modern alternative to Kung Fu while China Warrior is a bit more unique and finds its way into my playlists. Not often ofc

[stiff lotus]

Best game on the Turbo-Grafx Sixteen, don’t @ me

[grand moss]

Hmmm... if that's your taste....

I mean, I love the PC Engine system (USA TurboGrafx release was a colossal disappointment), but I acknowledge when games suck

[blazing hatch]

Well, it's certainly not good. But nothing to hate on. It's just a very simple game that happens to have big sprites. It's quite entertaining for 15 minutes

[coarse shadow]

Jackie Chan's Action Kung-Fu is great, much better than the NES version. One of my favorite platformer for the PC-Engine. Son Son II is a lot of fun too, which is somewhat similar to the Wonder Boy series (Monster Land).

[blazing hatch]

Sure. But it's another "Kung Fu". We were talking about the game that was Spartan-X in Japan and Kung Fu Master in the US arcades. It was just "Kung Fu" on NES

[grand moss]

Oh, "The Kung Fu" (or "China Warrior"). Yeah. it was also the first game on the system, and more of a rhythm game than an action game.

[blazing hatch]

Yeah, China Warrior was "THE Kung Fu" in Japan

[grand moss]

Also, more of a technology demonstration in 1987 than an actual game

[blazing hatch]

It feels more like a basic 1984 arcade game. Years from the standards of 1987.

[grand moss]

Well, compared to Famicom, they were showing off sprite size and colors

They didn't even have decent development tools yet; that's why it's not a great game

[blazing hatch]

It's much too simple (the concept). Like games like Mach Rider on the NES. But I find simple games like those quite enjoyable for some minutes. I played China Warrior quite some times when I got my Coregrafx Mini

[grand moss]

Yeah, I was reading (in Japanese) in "Hudson Densetsu 3" - written by Hiromasa Iwasaki from Hudson - about the development of the chipset and the tools and the initial games. If I recall correctly, they weren't even planning on releasing The Kung Fu as a game at first - it was basically a tech demo - but needed a few games at release, and this one had a good enough response during market tests.

Development tools for games for the system weren't really even available for several more months

[coarse shadow]

The Kung Fu was indeed just a tech demo to impress the gaming press, with the big sprites. The gameplay is awful and they knew it.

[grand moss]

It's certainly not an actual Kung Fu game. More like a rhythm game, of sorts

[sick elk]

Finished Legendary Axe. Really enjoyed it..hard as balls but great game. Gonna try the sequel next. PC Engine has a unique look to it's games

[blazing hatch]

You will be surprised. Both axes are strangely disconnected. I remember that the second one was a bit easier at least on the first levels.

[steel ibex]

Yeah, Legendary Axe 2 both looks and feels like a completely different game/IP. It's not a bad game though, just extremely different.

[grand moss]

They called the next game a sequel, but it was actually from a different series; they were just trying to cash in on the name.

It's not a bad game; it's just very different

Wow, I hadn't read all the way to the end, and I probably should have, since I just said the same things

[sick elk]

Explains why it's so different

[random beacon]

Legendary Axe 1 looks and feels like Astanyax (AC version)

[worn spindle]

Not a coincidence, since both were developed by the same development studio.

[golden edge]

The enemies even explode the same

[sick elk]

Finished Legendary Axe 2. Absolutely bad ass game.

[steel ibex]

Missed opportunity to call it a legendary game. smh

[sick elk]

Shit you're right

Ugh

[stiff lotus]

So I’ve seen people hate on it because it’s so different to the first game.

[sick elk]

It's definitely different. Mainly in that there's different weapons. You don't even get the axe till halfway thru the game. At least that's how it worked for me.

It was fun though.

[stiff lotus]

That’s pretty cool, thanks for posting about it

[sick elk]

I figured all of us are usually nerding out about accuracy of cores etc...thought some rambling bout actual games might be good 😂

[sick elk]

So I think next I'm gonna try Ninja Spirit

[blazing hatch]

That feels like a much improved Legend of Kage/Demon Sword

Impressive sprite work

[faint dagger]

I played so much Ninja Spirit on the arcades and the original console.

Very good IREM game.

[dreamy tiger]

it's probably my favorite TG16 game

[coarse shadow]

Really? It's a bit repetitive, but technically nice though.

[sick elk]

Loved it. Non stop action, and I liked the soundtrack too.

[coarse shadow]

I suggest to use the "Noise Fix" though. Some PCE games have issues with silent portions ingame. Ninja Spirit is one of them, other are Bloody Wolf and Shinobi (and a few more).

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/7236/

[sick elk]

Tried out Strider on the TGCD. Interesting port. Dug the little cutscenes. Great Redbook audio soundtrack too

[slim yew]

Interesting is a great substitution for awful 😉

[dark wharf]

that port had no reason to turn out as bad as it did. arranged music, new cutscenes, and extra levels, yet NEC avenue somehow managed to screw up the gameplay

[grand moss]

And it was years late

[tidal linden]

Wow... You have an EXTREME amount of patience!!! Congrats!

[sick elk]

As well as usuing an infinite lives code lol and i still almost gave up lol

[tidal linden]

I bet! There is no cheat code for patience 😎

[sick elk]

Maybe it makes me a piece of shit, but I'm 43, and I wanna enjoy as many retro games as possible, so when I play a platformer, if I can give myself infinite lives, I do, if I'm playing an RPG, if I can give myself tons of money, I do.

I try not to be ridiculous with it, and spam save states and stuff like that when they're available to me.

I feel like I've put in my time over the years and as a kid. I've earned this lol

[tidal linden]

Nope - If you are enjoying the content, thats ALL that matters. Im 50 and was fully against codes for years. Now looking back, that was a lot of time lost due to stubborness.

[sick elk]

Yeah same here.

I try to make sure it doesn't eliminate skill outta the equation

I don't run thru with invincibility n shit like that

but unlimited lives, and some extra money in rpg's never hurt any body 😉

I've found just doing that, has helped me enjoy games a lot more

[tidal linden]

There are a lot of games that I would never invest the shear amount of time an brain damage into just to enjoy it the way the creator intended... or whatever people want to say. If not for savevstates for games with no continues, I would probably never even give it a second look

Im talking B tier games

[sick elk]

oh I hear ya.

I wanna experience as much as these classics as possible before I die

So if that little nudge helps me accomplish that goal, I am all for it.

I just try to make sure I practice some restraint and don't get silly with it

I never really played much TurboGrafx before, All I had ever played were the 3 Bonk games, and I enjoyed em, I've been really enjoying what I've played on this little console so far.

I'm still glad 8 year old me chose the Sega Genesis since it had way more games and a longer shelf life, but the TurboGrafx was no slouch. Just handled very poorly by NEC in America.

I'm gonna give Splatterhouse a go next here, then I'm gonna play thru that Dead of the Brain translation

[tidal linden]

TG16 is a great console. Was the bastard console in the US

[sick elk]

I know all bout bastard consoles.

I had a 3DO in Xmas of 1994

Loved that thing so much

I always had the system none of the other kids had

[tidal linden]

Me too

[sick elk]

everyone round me had Nintendo, or SNES, and I had my Genesis

so when all the kids were chatting bout games at recess and lunch, I was stuck just listening cause nobody wanted to hear bout games they never played

then when I had my 3DO, they didn't even know what the hell that thing was

It bugged me at first, then i looked at it as I'm the only one that has something they don't lol

[tidal linden]

Or... when you had them over to check it out, that and the Neo Geo, they would NEVER leave

[sick elk]

HAHA hell yeah.

I remember showing FIFA off to some friends on 3DO

they had to pick their jaws up off the floor

[tidal linden]

Then they looked at my SNES and Genesis and asked... whats on your system? I said... thats a super magic drive.. you load games via floppy.. nobody on the playground believed that

[sick elk]

Plus my dad and I played tons of MS-DOS games too back then, and nobody I knew played those.

I consider myself lucky I got to experience so much of the unique stuff when I was younger

Instead of the same cookie cutter stuff most kids were playing

[tidal linden]

FIFA and Madden were show stoppers.. played a lot of Return Fire too

[sick elk]

oh yeah

Crash N Burn and Need for Speed blew my friends away too

I remember the first time I did hand to hand combat in space hulk my mind was blown away lol

I couldn't believe what my eyes were seeing

[tidal linden]

OMG - The crashes blew their minds.. total belly laughs. Road Rash was peak

[sick elk]

I played the CRAP outta Road Rash on 3DO

and Slayer

I spent SO many hours playing Slayer

[tidal linden]

I never had space hulk. Waiting for the 3do core to look at it

There was another real popular FPS that I never got around to picking up

It was a haunted house or something like that

[sick elk]

Escape From Monster Manor

It was fun

[tidal linden]

yep... thats it

[sick elk]

Space Hulk is SO hard, but it's so awesome.

Never beat, probably never will lol but i always try again from time to time

[tidal linden]

I was too busy with trying all the slop fighters...

and yes.. I did buy Plumbers Don't Wear Ties... Thats when I knew we were doomed 😂

[sick elk]

hahah

I was into the fighting craze too

[tidal linden]

SF on the TG16 is pretty darn good! Playing it on a US system back in the day made the system look UGLY with the huge adapter card that was needed. A US port with a proper 6 button controller could have helped sell a few more units IMO. Did you ever get the SF controller from Capcom for the 3do? I actually really liked it

[sick elk]

I have that 3DO controller. It looks so goofy, but it's actually really comfortable to use

TurboGrafx was offered the first port of Mortal Kombat I remember reading, and NEC passed on it

Would've loved to have seen how a port of that would've looked on it.

[tidal linden]

What a shame. The must have REALLY wanted out of the game.

They just hit the lottery with PCE in Japan and never cared to hire someone that cared to fully understand the gaming market.

The Dreamcast was the last console that I actually played and fully enjoyed. Sure, I have played other games, but the PS/XB consoles just did not give me the fun factor for some reason. I dont know whow to explain it... Nintendo keeps it going, but now with Switch.. Its kinda feeling the same way there too. That and Nintendos antics...

[sick elk]

I am in the same boat.

A part of my gaming soul died when the Dreamcast died and Sega left the hardware biz 🙁

[tidal linden]

Just want and NEED and translation of Segagaga

[sick elk]

oh dude

I'm so excited for that. Supposedly it's near the finish line

[sick elk]

Put an hour n half into Dead of the Brain. I freaking love it. I love visual novel games in general, but so far Dead of the Brain is fantasic!!

[grand moss]

Ah, cool.

[sick elk]

Been enjoying Dead of the Brain so much it finally motivated me to get off my ass and download every translated PC98 game I could find as well as Dead of the Brain 2. I hope the other horror games this company made get translated at some point!!

[sick elk]

Finished Dead of the Brain. Thanks for your work in getting this project completed. I really enjoyed it!

[grand moss]

My pleasure ! I don't often get feedback, so it's good to hear that people are enjoying them

[sick elk]

I've wanted to play that game for a long time. It was great. I downloaded every PC-98 translation I could find and slapped it into RetroBat. Starting up Dead of the Brain 2. Gotta finish the story!

[sick elk]

Trying out Ninja Gaiden. I've never played a Ninja Gaiden game before so I have no basis of comparison but the TG16 version is fun

[blazing hatch]

It would be next to perfect if the background layer scrolling was somehow bearable.

Since the TG-16 Mini I always thought that some kind of hack might appear to fix that. Fast forward many, many years: no sign of that

[dark wharf]

shame too as it's a decent version of the game otherwise

the famicom original is the best though, no questioning that

[sick elk]

The background scrolling is a little odd. Eventually I was gonna try the trilogy on SNES

[dark wharf]

the trilogy is uh, frankly not great lol

it's not terrible if you don't have access to the originals, but it's less of a super mario all-stars situation, and more of a very quick and dirty conversion

[sick elk]

Ah that sucks. I'll play the NES ones then

[blazing hatch]

Yeah. Not even a Mega Man 1-3 Situation

[steel ibex]

Yeah, the TG16 version of Ninja Gaiden isn't as good for sure. Even ignoring the scrolling issues. The gameplay is off by quite a bit. Reminds me a lot of the Wily Wars on the Genesis. As for the scrolling background issue, there are other games on the platform with the same problem (see Ys III). It's something about the console having problems with multiple background layers scrolling.

[blazing hatch]

Yeah. Some devs could could pull it off (see Down Load, see Air Zonk), but most not

[primal inlet]

Why do SNAC adapters insist on separating PC-engine and TG16 ports? I know they're different, but from what I understand it's just a matter of a different size and shape. Wouldn't it be easier to just make one adapter, and include a conversion cable?

[grand moss]

cables are horrible to make

and 90% of connectors that are available mount on boards anyway

[stiff lotus]

Will this core ever support the NEC LD-ROM²?

[dreamy tiger]

LDEEZ

[steel ibex]

Nutz

[grand moss]

Robby, you know the answer to that

[stiff lotus]

I want to believe

[slim yew]

After the vcd core, slamy will be itching for more video things to support 🤡

[viscid brook]

do turbo buttons exist for this core?

[stiff lotus]

Yeah, if you swap to two button controller mode than buttons 3 and 4 are like turbo 1 and 5 and 6 are turbo 2

[primal inlet]

I heard someone argue that Bonk's Adventure was the first Mascot Platformer

[stiff lotus]

That’s clearly Pac Land tho

[turbid sinew]

maybe not but it is the best!

[left merlin]

So if your controller is configured properly in the mister main menu, have the PCE controller in 2-button mode, 3-6 buttons will automatically be turbo 1-2 levels? 😳

[stiff lotus]

You need to map them in the core as well

But yeah

[turbid sinew]

i really like the hori pc engine mini controller i got

shame those are so expensive now

[dapper bobcat]

@grand moss Just curious how feasible it would be to add TurboGT/Express TurboLink support via SNAC? Would this require a different BIOS/System card? Was there every any adapater made to link two PC-Engine home systems? I'm slowly going down the rabbit hole of systems that had link cable support. Currently the GameBoy/Color core support link cable. Jag core has a work in progress Jaglink SNAC. Robert has mentioned the new GBA core will eventually support Link Cable, etc. NOT asking/requesting you do the work, just asking your opinion on if it's feasible.

[slim yew]

Hmm, any documentation on the signal it uses? Looks like an analog audio cable

[dapper bobcat]

Right now, I'm still just trying to find a definitive list of games to support the feature. Kind of surprised how little information there is (that I can find).

[slim yew]

yeah, I was looking it up casually to see how many wires it was assuming it was a serial connection. I guess it could be a send/recv and ground wire?

[grand moss]

Since SNAC is already in use for controllers, TurboLink support can't really be added there.
AFAIK, only 1 or 2 games ever supported the link, and they were HuCards (I don't even have a complete list, but I believe one of the Bomberman game supported it, although probably not all of them).
I also don't think this is documented from a technical point of view, so that reverse engineering/documentation step would need to take place.
Should otherwise be feasible - IIRC, it was a 3-wire cable with ground, data in, and data out - so those signals would need to passed (would need to find a way to connect these signals)

[dark wharf]

today i learned the turboexpress had link cable functionality

[grand moss]

Oh, and no adapter was ever made to link home systems - it was only the handhelds - PCE GT/TurboExpress

Some old reddit post suggests the following games, but I wouldn't exactly trust it:
Bomberman, Bomberman '93, Bomberman '94, Columns, Falcon, Puzzle Boy, Spin Pair

This page removes Bomberman 94 and Falcon from that list, leaving only 5 games:
https://necretro.org/COM_Cable

I've never tested

I think I have 2 TurboExpresses, but I don't own the cable. The end connector is simlpe TRS, but I don't know if it's straight-wired, cross-wired, or something else.

[primal inlet]

Turboexpress Link Cable has to be the most obscure hardware feature of all time

[stiff lotus]

Sweet, then we don’t have to worry about it

[dapper bobcat]

@grand moss Thanks for the responses. I do greatly appreciate it. It would be cool to have as a feature, but more than anything, just surprised how little information is out there on it.

[grand moss]

Yup. Kind of a "failed feature"

[slender bluff]

I didn't even know about this one. Maybe one day people will run out of things to take apart and poke and look at it. The N64 homebrew people are doing the 64DD modem, which wasn't on my bingo card for obscure things to be emulated.

[dapper bobcat]

I'm really really interested in this one (and all system to system link cable configurations between two MiSTers). And it's a challenge to find info.

Not suggesting this list is complete, but after looking at several sites in English and Japanese, and skimming through manuals, I can confirme at least the following games are supported:

Bomberman
Bomberman ’93
Columns
Falcon
Morita Shogi PC
Puzzel Boy
Spin Pair

Also, no surprise, but you can't use a regular male to male audio cable. Which implies a crossover/crossed pair cable for Rx/Tx. But I've yet to find a pinout.

Also, many sites have different lists of games. Some have Facon, others don't. Some have Bomberman 94, some don't (as dshadoff already reported). But I only found the Shogi game listed on a Japanese site (translated) and then verified in the game manual. So there may be more.

Also, the link cable option, at least in the Bomberman games appears in the menu on a normal Turbo (at least emulated). In my very uneducated naive brain, I wonder if there is actually additional hardware in the TurboExpres/GT, or if it's just reusing/rerouting some thing from the standard expansion port.

I think there is a repro of the TurboExpress pcb, I may go down that rabbithole some time. But I'm just an idiot on the net and have no idea how to make use of any info gleaned.

[dapper bobcat]

@slender bluff @grand moss So putting this here in case anyone with the skill is ever interested.
Reproduction PCB info for TurboExpress/GT and it’s special controller board:

• https://github.com/Board-Folk/PC-Engine-GT
• https://github.com/Board-Folk/PC-Engine-GT-Controller?tab=readme-ov-file
  Thread with a little info on the custom chip used on the controller pcb
• https://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2083.0
  AND…Furrtek already decapped it and has info/schematics in his GitHub
• https://github.com/furrtek/SiliconRE/blob/master/NEC/BU5782K/BU5782K_schematics.PDF

And with that, I'll stop obssessing for the night.

[slim yew]

Isn’t that where the turbo link connects. Are the inputs labeled?

[dapper bobcat]

Yes the TurboLink connects to the controller pcb, which uses a custom ASIC, the BU5782K, which furrtek decapped and has schematics of. I'm posting in the hopes that someone eventually can implement TurboLink so we can hook two up two MiSTers and replicate the 'experience' of having two TurboExpress' linked together for the few games that support that. 😄

[slender bluff]

Is the link cable support the only aspect of this board we don't support?

[dapper bobcat]

Technically the board also controls the on-board speaker too. But to the untrained eye, looking at the pcb, I think it just passes the audio signal through the board and doesn't actually 'process it'. But that custom asic controls the controller itself as well as the TurboLink. At least that is my current understanding.

[slender bluff]

What is the onboard speaker used for? Does the core emulate that?

[dapper bobcat]

The onboard speaker is just for sound, the TurboExpress is a portable like a gameboy. Standard speaker, yes the core emulates sound, so that part can be ignored.

[slender bluff]

Oh sorry, I didn't appreciate this was a handheld. I get confused on the myriad of different NEC consoles from this era

[true iris]

There's only two platforms, really - pcengine and Supergrafx. Then the CD add-on with varying amounts of RAM. It's hardly a myriad. Sega had the same number of systems for the mega drive: MD, 32x and CD. They just never expanded the ram.

They both pumped out a myriad of variant styles, but stuck to the same core platforms.

[slender bluff]

I am being hyperbolic, but the TurboGrafx versions also confuse me

[true iris]

I hear that a lot but it's just so easy in my own head I don't get the confusion. PCE, SGX, CD. Easy. 😊

[dapper bobcat]

I think the confusion comes from all the 'variants' having distinct names. With Sega you have "MegaDrive", "32X", "CD". Variant designs retain the same overall name like the "MegaDrive 2". But, PC-Engine, PC-Shuttle, CoreGravx, and CoreGrafx II, PC-Engine GT, and PC-Engine LT are ALL still PC-Engine. Then add in SuperGrafx and PC-FX. It 'looks' like more variety, even if it really isn't.

[true iris]

MegaJet, WonderMega, CDX, MultiMega, the Aiwa stereo, 32x, super 32x, WonderMega 2, nomad, genesis, genesis 2, genesis 3

[dapper bobcat]

True, I didn't even think of the MegaJet and Nomad. It's late, my brain is slowing down. I concede.

[true iris]

Sega CD, Sega CD 2, mega CD, mega CD 2, etc. 😊

All good. I think most of us were closer to Sega so what it did was assimilated easily as it happened.

For most of you, who weren't NEC kids like I oh so definitely was, you got all the PCE stuff in a rush and it's a lot.

I was lucky enough to run a game store in the late 90s, and I was big into TurboGrafx. I've owned every single thing on those lists, plus a bunch more. I know this stuff as well as I know my own face.

[cobalt kindle]

Don't forget the Mega PC and TeraDrive!

[true iris]

And the X1 Twin!

[cobalt kindle]

Oooh, hadn't heard of the X1 Twin, neat! Also how can we forget the NEC PC-KD863G 😄

🤌

[true iris]

I've owned that too. 🙂

It was really nice.

[cobalt kindle]

Niiice

[dapper bobcat]

I'm envious, I WANTED to be a Turbo kid. I was lucky enough to own a TG-16 and CD-ROM drive. But I lived in the middle of no-where. Nearest store that had any TG-16 stuff was 30 minutes away, but that lasted only for a very short time (less than a year) and they had no selection. Next closest was a 2 hour drive away. This was long before I was old enough to drive or have my own job, so I didn't have the opportunity to obtain much. Bug damn, I remember the first time I flipped on Keith Courage like it was yesterday. I thought it was so very superior to my Genesis. Good times.

[true iris]

I lived in a small town in Canada, and managed to catch the pre-release TurboGrafx tour at a mall at the next even smaller town down the highway. They had a PC Engine (though I didn't know what it was at the time) in a wooden box marked TOP SECRET, playing Alien Crush. Blew my whole ass mind. Then a friend got one, and Blazing Lazers, man!

Then I bought a TG16 with CD ROM and Monster Land. Forever a fanboy. Then bought a Duo. Gate of Thunder! Picked up some imports - Dracula X, Street Fighter with a pair of Hori 6-button pads. I got so lucky.

Years later I was managing a store, bought all the stuff on clearance. Then I owned a store, people traded it all in to me for peanuts. Then I moved to Japan... A lucky life, game-wise.

[dapper bobcat]

I love Alien Crush and play it all the time to this day! That game and it's sound track rocks.

Back to this TurboExpress TurboLink thing, with my limited understanding, looking over schematics, it really looks more and more like the controller pcb, which is seperate from the main pcb, could work like a regular controller on a TG-16 if you just soldered the right connecter on it (looks like signals and wires and such are the same). I'm really really tempted to get a couple for parts models and play around with this idea.

[primal inlet]

I'm actually curious how this works software-wise

I know Bomberman just has that on the menu

[grand moss]

I'll get you a pinout soon. I found one on yahoo auctions Japan, and I'll check it with a continuity tester. My expectation is that the "Sleeve" is ground (and connected), and the "Ring" and "Tip" are cross-wired, but not clear which is which. I will confirm once I receive.

[grand moss]

Pretty sure it's additional hardware, but hard to say what complexity. Could be bit-banged by the CPU, or it cound be a shift register of some sort.

[grand moss]

Could be. Not sure. I'll take a look at some point soon (not today). If you're also looking, that would be cool.

My approach would probably be something like:

• receive the cable (probably at least 2 weeks away)
• analyze the signal passing between hosts (*)
• look at Mednafen to see what port(s) it's hitting
• Then try to correlate what electrically is happening versus what programmatically is happening.

Note the (*) - If the signal has pulses less than 2 microseconds long, then SNAC probably wouldn't work well, due to the open-drain nature

This is already a problem with non-trivial controllers - multi-tap, 6-button, etc. especially when on extension cables

[graceful root]

I love all the wild form factors for Japanese consoles. What an era

[slender bluff]

Not sure if you follow the Jaguar channel, but there was a lengthy dev discussion yesterday on how to potentially connect two MiSTers for Jag core linking, now that is supported.

[grand moss]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Lots of raw information needs to harvested first before anything can be built to simulate it, or decide on how to implement it

[slender bluff]

Just wanted to make you aware if you missed it, as probably an interesting chat for you to read

#1055574003810578503 message

Weaves and bobs in and out of conversation for the next day, discussing potential cables that could work etc.

[grand moss]

too distant for now, and I don't even think it'll be implementable on MiSTer. But we'll see what the research finds out

[dapper bobcat]

Again, thanks for the responses and seemingly interest. I want to stress again that I was not and am not asking you to do work, I'm respectful of your time and all the wonderful contributions. Having said that, yes I am 'looking into it', but I do not have real knowledge and skills beyond researching. That's not to say I won't make progress, just likely much much slower than you. I had the same Yahoo auction up but didn't pull the trigger last night. I see you did, happy to contribute towards that expense. I see a couple more I may try to snag in the next day or so.

[slender bluff]

A bit off topic, but I am curious now what consoles all did have link cables. I don't think we support any other than GBC link cable, but not sure that works for joining two MiSTers together. I think quite a few handhelds had link cables: Game Gear, Gameboy, GBA, even Super Vision. Maybe Lynx, NGPC, Wonder swan?

Playstation?

[dapper bobcat]

I haven't tested it (I need to buy a second GameBoy SNAC adapter), but MiSTer to MiSTer GameBoy Link Cable should work is my undersanding.

We have working prototypes for Jag to Jag.

Off the top of my head, in your list, there is also a few Neo Geo cartridges that support system link, but the link port is built into the carts rather than the main unit.

And of course there is system to system play in Zero Tolerance 1 and 2 (prototype) for Sega Genesis. That works through a special controller crossover cable and does indeed work on MiSTer with the right cable and SNAC adapters.

Oh, and there is at least one game (likely more) that supports system to system play on the Atari ST over Midi cables.

I've slowly been building up hardware to test these. Would be neat to do a spreadsheet, wiki, video or something on it.

[dapper bobcat]

Not disagreeing, I'm out of my depth, but just to add to my theory: The reproduction GT/Express controller board has two versions, original with all functionality, and a 'remaster' that ditches the BU5782K ASIC and instead reverts to the same standard chips used in the standard PC-Engine controller. It states this works but you lose the TurboLink functionality there. That again makes me think it's just a special controller (again may be wrong). But I'm still looking for an affordable 'for parts' to test. If it is 'just' a special controller, might be interesting to try to reproduce the 'controller' to use on original systems and your awesome SNAC adapter, rather than try to force it into MiSTer. But I won't speculate further until something gets tested and more information is out there.

[dapper bobcat]

oooh, didn't know this existed, but looks like there is a Sega Saturn system to system cable too: https://segaretro.org/Taisen_Cable

[dapper bobcat]

Should we start a new thread or somethig to capture this info?

[slender bluff]

Yeah that's a good idea, would be interesting to figure out what all could connect together. Pokémon Mini did it via IR if I recall, that is another one

[grand moss]

No worries, I've always had a vague curiosity for how it works, and I've reverse-engineered several of the other communications protocols on the system, and this topic does reappear from time to time. I'm probably only going to take it as far as understading how it works, though.

If it uses additional bits on the joypoad port, I might go one step further though - the SuperGrafx seems to expose all the bits of the joypad port (both in and out) on a special SG-specific port next to the joypad input, and if the above is true (a lot of "if"s), then it might be possibel to hook up 2 SG's realtively trivially. Not that anybody has 2 SG's....

[onyx bridge]

You can link two MiSTers running the Gameboy core.

[primal inlet]

Good idea

I'm also curious to what extent you could genericize this

Like would it be possible to have a Universal Mister Link?

[regal valley]

theres also a GB2P core where one MiSTer can run 2 linked cores on the same screen

(plus a GBA2P core as well)

not sure if there's enough FPGA resourves for a PCE2P core, but it would be neat

(arguably "PCEGT2P" or "TGExpress2P", though)

[grand moss]

Nope

And I would say, not worth it

(even me !)

[regal valley]

figuring out the link cable can be fun though. VodSound (Nate) was asking me if I could add a link mode to Kex 😅

I suspect it will need writing a whole custon protocol though, which is way too much work for a simple game

[grand moss]

link cable will be in transit tonight; I should recieve it in about a week.

What ports to hit, and how ? That's a separate investigation

[regal valley]

https://github.com/Newsdee/pce-tenseiryuu-saint-dragon

I patched away the annoying SFX sound from Tenseiryuu

you can get the BPS patch from this page

[coarse shadow]

Nice one. Some PC-Engine games also had a faint music volume, like Gunhed. Is it possible to fix something like this?

[regal valley]

maybe. I would have to see if I can work out the internal logic for it

in Saint Dragon the issue was that the SFX was not only loud, but also a big bunch of white noise; which drowns everything else

[coarse shadow]

Yeah, noticed this too. Justin Gibbins also fixed some games with noise issues. Good to see more love for PC-Engine games these days.

[regal valley]

I managed to increase the music volume a bit, but not the voice samples. Not sure it's much better, but its a start.

the game has probably lower volume to mix well with the samples and noise instruments

I need a volunteer who knows the game well to help me test if the result is OK

[coarse shadow]

Many thanks for working on that one. It's very low volume, especially the title screen music. I know, that the PC-Engine is generally a very "quiet" system but Gunhed is very odd. Such an iconic game deserves better. Even with "Master Audio Boost = 4x" it's still not load enough. Compared to PCE games like Somer Assault (which is very load for a HuCard game). Is it maybe the low samples/voices quality they tried to hide in a lower master volume? They crammed the whole game in a 3 mbit Hucard, of course this lead to compromises, but it sounds awful.

[dark wharf]

one of the things i appreciate the most about the core is the ability to increase the CDDA volume. it's a godsend for some games like rayxanber III where the shot sound effects are just ridiculously loud

[regal valley]

getting somewhere

[coarse shadow]

Wow, looks like a massive improvement already!

[regal valley]

I haven't yet figured out how to make the voice samples louder

but the rest seems decent now

[coarse shadow]

This is more than good enough. I can live with the voice samples volume, they aren't good anyway. 🏆

But the music is really well done.

[regal valley]

I got something working with louder voices. Just need a bit more polish before I upload it to github

[coarse shadow]

Many thanks again. All works fine now. Really appreciate your work. 👍

[primal inlet]

Y'know I feel like the Supergrafx could've saved NEC if they released it as an Arcade platform shortly after the PC Engine

[coarse shadow]

It would have helped a lot to NOT release a stupid hentai porn/dating sim machine as a successor console (PC-FX). A better licensing system for starters. What obscure titles they allowed.

[primal inlet]

IDK. Not a lot of the titles were super obscure. I think the bigger problem is that it's a lot of minorly enhanced ports of games you could play elsewhere

[coarse shadow]

I meant the PC-FX. Check the list. Very niche titles mostly, very few good action titles.

https://www.mobygames.com/platform/pc-fx/

[primal inlet]

Angelique was huge though

[dark wharf]

PC-FX was not a "porn machine" by any stretch. there's only a few 18+ titles

[primal inlet]

Any statistics on the PC-FX are weird based on the small sample size

Just under 10% of the titles on the platform are magazines

7% of the games on the platform are in the Angelique series

[coarse shadow]

Still quite a flop. They had no clue which audience to address. They surely knew that they had no chance to compete with Sega or Sony.

[dark wharf]

had they released it a bit earlier and maybe gave it some decent 3D hardware, it probably could've had a much better chance against the other fifth-gen platforms

[primal inlet]

I'd honestly say the library is good in a vacuum, it's just not plentiful enough and a lot of the really good titles are already on other platforms.

Plus the Saturn occupied a similar niche much better

[coarse shadow]

They forgot about there already installed user base, which wanted good action games, RPGs, platformers. Maybe more good arcade ports.

[steel ibex]

PC-FX's biggest problem was the hardware itself and not the library of games (which were a direct result of the hardware's capabilities). Not embracing 3D at a time when 3D was the new hotness was the wrong bet to make. Even Sega made last minute changes to the Saturn when they realized that.

[dark wharf]

i think that's going to depend on where you were in the world at the time. many of the saturn's best-selling titles in japan were still 2D games

[coarse shadow]

Nah, the hardware was good enough for 2D games. This could have been their niche. Despite the fact that the Saturn was there.

[steel ibex]

Yes, but it still had 3D capabilities, which was what it needed at the time.

2D only system in the mid 90s was always going to fail.

[dark wharf]

eh, i partially disagree. it probably wouldn't have reached the heights of the playstation, but i think it could've done a lot better had it come out earlier and launched with a stronger library

[coarse shadow]

There was a thirst for good 2D arcade ports in Japan back then. Sure, in the US/Europe this wouldn't have worked.

[steel ibex]

Even in Japan it would never would have succeeded without 3D. People really underestimate how important it was at the time.

And of course, it didn't succeed.

[coarse shadow]

The Saturn fared well, with mostly 2D games. Much better than other consoles released there.

[steel ibex]

But it did have 3D. That's why it succeeded. It had both great 2D and solid 3D capabilities. It having a lot of great 2D games does not = success without 3D.

It would have been massacred even in Japan without 3D.

[dark wharf]

i've no doubt the saturn still would've done pretty well in japan even without the 3D capabilities

[coarse shadow]

I don't think so. The Japanese market was different.

[steel ibex]

I really don't agree.

[coarse shadow]

They didn't really need 3D for the Saturn.

[grand moss]

OK, you guys both sound like Americans who were born after this period of time.
3D was not in a shippable state by anybody, and Sony somehow puled a rabbit out of a hat (even though it still looked like shit). Saturn spoofs 3D, it's not really 3D. It goes to extreme lengths to emulate it.
And NEC thought that PC-FX would be a supplementary machine to PC Engine - for younger audiences to "grow into", so they thought overlap was unnecessary. I agree that it was a HUGE mistake... but that's NEC's hive mind thinking.

[steel ibex]

The PS1 would have absolutely slaughtered Saturn if the Saturn didn't have 3D.

[coarse shadow]

It did slaughter the Saturn worldwide, except for Japan. I didn't knew any person back then who had a Saturn console in Germany.

[grand moss]

You mean, if Saturn didn't try to emulate 3D

Everybody knew 3D was "the next big thing", but expected it to be "next generation" or even "mid-generation". Sony pulled a rabbit out of a hat.

[steel ibex]

Much of that is due to Sega of America and the lack of releases outside of Japan. Not to mention how badly they botched the launch. Saturn's failures were more corporate related than hardware related.

[grand moss]

And it's pretty clear that this generation was a reckoning for all of the major companies

Showing that none of them really understood what was going to happen next

[coarse shadow]

We all know that Sony excelled with the aggressive commercials. Sega couldn't compete.

[slender bluff]

Anyone calling PC-FX "a stupid hentai porn/dating sim machine" is a good indicator that they have no experience with the system and have just read comments from other people who have no experience of the system. This urban myth of it being a hentai machine really needs to die.

[coarse shadow]

I played/tested most of this PC-FX stuff. Via emulator.

[grand moss]

Yeah, a higher percentage of Saturn games are hentai

(Whoosh) <everybody moves to the Saturn channel>

[coarse shadow]

Hardly surprising with over 1000 released games

[grand moss]

I said perecentage, not just number

[steel ibex]

The PC-FX's library just isn't large enough to extrapolate any sort of genuine pattern that resulted in success vs failure.

[coarse shadow]

since it was over 1000 in Japan it's hardly suprising.

[grand moss]

When PC-FX was coming out, NEC seems to have thought "let's bring over some popular games from computers. This will be a machine that has computer games, but isn't as daunting as a computer"

You can see from the launch titles which were pretty much subsidized

[coarse shadow]

Well, it looked like a mini desktop PC for sure.

[steel ibex]

Yes, but the large number makes it easier to misunderstand that because that also mean a large volume of non hentai games. If you focus on all the great Saturn games, it's easy to either not know about, or just ignore the hentai stuff. But with a small number of total games, it's hard to ignore them when there aren't many games total to begin with.

[coarse shadow]

The SuperGrafx was their biggest fail at that time. I wonder how many consoles they really sold and not just destroyed.

[steel ibex]

As an extreme example. If a console had only 5 total games. And 1 of the 5 was a hentai game. That game sticks out like a sore thumb.

But if a console had 500 games. And 100 of them were hentai games. It's easier to ignore the 100 hentai games when there are 400 other games. Quantity changes perspective quite a lot.

[coarse shadow]

And don't forget the Mahjong clones, everywhere!

The PCE has also tons of it.

[grand moss]

Sure. But it's more appropriate to call Saturn the "hentai" console than PC-FX. In fact, I think 3DO has them both beat though.

And X68K and PC-98 put all consoels to shame for that

[steel ibex]

PC-98 is the hentai king!

[coarse shadow]

Before internet. LOL

[grand moss]

Actually, I think the Shuttle was the bigger fail. It's just easier to forget about because it didn't have any exclusives.

[coarse shadow]

Wasn't the shuttle just a cost reduced PCE?

[grand moss]

Everybody at Hudson was thinking "what the heck is NEC even thinking!??". I know this because they literally said it recently at a Hudson Night event where they talking about the old days

[coarse shadow]

Sega, Atari and Commodore did similar stuff. They fall failed at some point.

[grand moss]

"what the heck.." was referring to all the variations of hardware that NEC was creating without deciding on how many units would actually be sold, or how it might confuse customers. At that time, there was the white PC Engine, SuperGrafx, Core Grafx, Shuttle, and numerous peripherals and controllers.

they also had the CDROM unit, the karaoke unit and soon after, the Duo

You can kind of see the thought process on some of these, but the timeline is insane

[coarse shadow]

I know. But other companies made the same mistakes. Not the engineers, but the corporate management.

[regal valley]

the PC Engine feels like a dream machine for whoever was used to code for the Famicom. But all the subsequent machines feel like marketing mistakes

[slender bluff]

3DO, CDi and PSX have actual video porn releases

[grand moss]

Yeah, Hudson's influence was positive, and NECs was near-cataclysmic

[regal valley]

the CD was maybe the only suvcessful console add-on of the era; not sure if it sold better than the Mega CD, though

the Arcade Card was pretty impressive with the SNK ports

[coarse shadow]

Europe/US would have never accepted the CD-Rom addon in December 1988.

[regal valley]

if only they licensed SNK games for the PC-FX

"another rooster would be singing" as they say in Spanish...

[coarse shadow]

The CDTV flopped in Europe/US around 1991,

Still too early for CD-Rom games.

[steel ibex]

Even the Sega CD was mostly a failure at the time.

And I was playing Sega CD on day one.

[coarse shadow]

I maybe saw it 1-2 times in a mall.

Nobody wanted it.

[steel ibex]

Though I seemed to like backing failures at the time since I was also playing 3DO, Saturn, and Virtual Boy on day one.

[coarse shadow]

LOL, Virtual Boy? And you neck is still fine?

[steel ibex]

I wish it was fine...

[primal inlet]

The PC-FX was intended as a transitional system for PC-engine when it should've been a transitional system for PC98

[coarse shadow]

Well, they had the FM-Towns. Much better at that time.

So many great games with awesome CDDA soundtracks.

Hopefully some day we get a working Mister core.

[grand moss]

It was available here in December 1989. I bought one, because I had seen it in Hong Kong. Nothing about that console was popular in North America, but there wasn't any copy protection preventing Japanese releases, so people who had the CD attachment immediately gravitated towards imports

[dreamy tiger]

I own a TG16CD, if that is what we are talking about

[coarse shadow]

This butt ugly "US needs it bigger" crap. 🤣

[grand moss]

Yeah I agree that they did stupid things

[coarse shadow]

If the TG16 case had been just a little bigger, they could have fit the CD-ROM drive in as well.

[plucky python]

I had the TG-16 and TG-CD back in the day. I still think it was the coolest looking console of the era in the US. Was definitely niche. My best friend and I were the only ones I ever knew that owned any Turbo system. I lived in the Seattle area at the time. I remember seeing the system and games all over and commercials on TV. Yet, most people I knew were still unwilling to part with their NES or they were eyeing the Genesis.

[grand moss]

Yeah, it was a strange time. People were either already married to the NES ecosystem, or knew the name SEGA from the arcades. And nobody seemed to have any interest in Japanese things like anime. It was weird.

Talk about being ahead of your time

Ys1-2 was the killer app of CDROM

Yet most of North America was more interested in sports games. Yeah not actually going outside and playing sports. Pretending to play sports on a TV screen.

[steel ibex]

Sounds just like...today.

The only two non-arcade style sports games I ever owned in my life were Madden and FIFA on the 3DO back in the day. Beyond those games, it's stuff like NBA Jam or Mario Tennis and such.

[regal valley]

last soccer game I played for a bit must have been International Superstart Soccer for the N64

and that one can be pretty arcade-y

I guess console buyers are split between somebody who gets a console to play Fifa all the time, and the rest of us... 😅

[regal valley]

https://github.com/Newsdee/pce-gunhed-blazing-lazers

new patch ^

gives louder volume on Gunhed

[coarse shadow]

Great patch. Gives me the perfect excuse to play it again (and again...). 😄

[regal valley]

#share-media message

here is a volume comparison vs. the original if anybody is curious ^

[left merlin]

This is a worthy replacement patch, like why go back to the original now

[grand moss]

So, getting back to the discussion of the link cable on the PC Engine GT / TurboExpress... I received a cable today, and:

1. sleeve connects to sleeve (as we all expected)
2. ring connects to ring
3. tip connects to tip

So how communication takes place is still a mystery

Maybe one unit claims to be "master" and the other as "slave"

[dapper bobcat]

That is really surprising that it's a straighthrough. Thanks for the information on this.

[regal valley]

interesting. how does it differ from a regular 3.5mm audio cable? is it that it's just a "mono" cable?

[grand moss]

Well, it has rather large ferrite "beads" on both ends

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_bead

That indicates that it's used for basically DC applications rather than music

[stiff lotus]

Oh sonthatsbwhatbtheyre called

[regal valley]

ah so it reduces noise

[grand moss]

Yeah basically. Stops ringing, reduces the "antenna" effect, etc.

[slender bluff]

Basically an RF filter. Worth clipping them on all your power cords for AV gear

[dapper bobcat]

@grand moss Saw your post on X about the pinout which motivated me to dig some more. Not sure how useful this is, but here is a little bit more info I found on how the com cable works:

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=16367.msg338318#msg338318

Specifically talks about which registers correspond to the pinout and how it's read and disabled regular controller.

[grand moss]

Oh thanks for digging up the original post ! I saw his reply on X, but it only contained a picture of a portion of that post

[viscid brook]

why is pc engine audio so quiet compared to other consoles?

even my coregrafx is quiet

[magic stump]

All the power went to the CPU and there was nothing left to amplify the audio?

[grand moss]

It's just well-behaved ?

[golden edge]

PC Engines should be seen and not heard as they say

[honest ibex]

Ys Book 1 and 2 isn’t known to have any issues on the core does it? I’ve had two random lockups now in one play session but nothing consistent. One entering Zeptic from the mountains and another entering Minea from the fields

[cunning flume]

I played through ys book 1 last august with no issues.

[steel ibex]

I haven't come across any issues either in Ys.

[grand moss]

No issues. Generally the types of issues people can have on games are because they're either:
a) using a bad rip, or
b) they have set the core settings to something non-standard that the game is sensitive to (i.e. unlimited sprites, or "fast" CD seek), or
c) using netowrk storage with random latency. SD Card access is reliable

I'm also still not 100% convinced about CHD (it may make network access slightly worse), but most people seem satisfied with CHD on SDCard

[honest ibex]

I’ve got it as CHD on network storage that’s hardwired, and it’s the redump rip so should be good

[summer rivet]

I’m assuming the network storage is spinning discs? Maybe the drives went to sleep?

[honest ibex]

Nope, it’s on an SSD! I haven’t had an issue on other CD cores (where I also use CHD) but CHD seems like the most likely culprit so I’ll convert it back to bin/cue and see if it happens again

Oh yeah, and all default hardware options in the core settings

[grand moss]

Not sure how easy it is for you to do, but try it on SDCard

The only freezes that have been reported in the past 2 years have all been network-related

[honest ibex]

Yep I can give it a try later!

[honest ibex]

no issues when running from the SD card, but also as a sanity check, I've just been completely unable to recreate either of those lockups while using the network share. I've spent a good 20 minutes going in and out of either town, spending various lengths of time between entering and exiting etc etc and nothing at all

hate to chalk it up to a fluke that happened twice but I'm not sure what else to think

between those lockups i didn't restart the mister, just the core

[grand moss]

Yeah, that's what makes them really hard to replicate and diagnose and correct.

I feel like there must be a way to remove the lockup - but I can't recreate it, so it's best to just give advice on how to avoid it

[honest ibex]

out of curiousity i ran an ioping against my cifs share and latency is quite low but dunno if the numbers even matter much here

/media/fat/ioping/usr/bin# ./ioping /media/fat/games
4 KiB <<< /media/fat/games (cifs //192.168.68.38/mister 931.5 GiB): request=1 time=1.33 ms (warmup)
4 KiB <<< /media/fat/games (cifs //192.168.68.38/mister 931.5 GiB): request=2 time=1.86 ms
4 KiB <<< /media/fat/games (cifs //192.168.68.38/mister 931.5 GiB): request=3 time=1.55 ms
4 KiB <<< /media/fat/games (cifs //192.168.68.38/mister 931.5 GiB): request=4 time=2.13 ms
4 KiB <<< /media/fat/games (cifs //192.168.68.38/mister 931.5 GiB): request=5 time=2.05 ms
4 KiB <<< /media/fat/games (cifs //192.168.68.38/mister 931.5 GiB): request=6 time=2.00 ms
4 KiB <<< /media/fat/games (cifs //192.168.68.38/mister 931.5 GiB): request=7 time=2.05 ms
4 KiB <<< /media/fat/games (cifs //192.168.68.38/mister 931.5 GiB): request=8 time=1.78 ms
4 KiB <<< /media/fat/games (cifs //192.168.68.38/mister 931.5 GiB): request=9 time=2.04 ms
4 KiB <<< /media/fat/games (cifs //192.168.68.38/mister 931.5 GiB): request=10 time=1.98 ms
4 KiB <<< /media/fat/games (cifs //192.168.68.38/mister 931.5 GiB): request=11 time=1.96 ms
4 KiB <<< /media/fat/games (cifs //192.168.68.38/mister 931.5 GiB): request=12 time=1.99 ms
4 KiB <<< /media/fat/games (cifs //192.168.68.38/mister 931.5 GiB): request=13 time=1.98 ms
^C
--- /media/fat/games (cifs //192.168.68.38/mister 931.5 GiB) ioping statistics ---
12 requests completed in 23.4 ms, 48 KiB read, 513 iops, 2.01 MiB/s
generated 13 requests in 12.5 s, 52 KiB, 1 iops, 4.15 KiB/s
min/avg/max/mdev = 1.55 ms / 1.95 ms / 2.13 ms / 149.0 us

[grand moss]

If you can find the root cause of the hang, it can get fixed. it is hanging somewhere in the SCSI request when data doesn't return as expected, but why and how, is not known. And only when network is invovled. And only rarely.

Best guess is an outlier in latency from the server

(or lost packet)

[fossil pumice]

Hi

I'm having a green line in the bottom with a not usual combination

What is not usual is the resolution I configured in the monitor. It is an ultra wide and the resolution via hdmi is 1720x720

And when the core is enabled, the output resolution is

But the monitor is receiving 694

That's probably the reason of the trash line at the bottom

Changing the overscan option causes a change in resolution output and it is an even resolution so the problem goes away

Changed the vscale_mode from 5 to 0 in the ini file and problem gone. This problem also happens with an standard 16:9 monitor with the vscale_mode=5 for this core. Maybe it also happens in other cores

[primal inlet]

Weird-ass Ebay listing

Although it was listed as PC-Engine I'm pretty sure this might be PC-98 or something

[viscid brook]

is it some kind of dev unit?

[earnest blaze]

Looks like it ran a CNC machine
https://portal-images.azureedge.net/auctions-2024/corpor10496/images/aaddc725-e58c-4a91-ab5a-b0ec00fca8a6.jpg

[regal valley]

maybe a regular PC that is considered the "engine" for that bigger machine

[primal inlet]

Yeah. To me the weird thing is that fuckass murder basement

[stiff lotus]

LMAO

[blazing hatch]

I think that one of the killer games for the TG-16 was Bomberman 94. It's so strange that there isn't any fanpatch to translate that game to English. There is the Megadrive port of it ("Mega Bomberman"), but the conversion was bad.

[opaque zodiac]

I agree. It’s pretty shocking as it’s likely the most prolific TG-16 game not released in the West

[grand moss]

Not many long-time hackers in PC Engine land. Only a few of us, but there are a bunch of games translated.

Bomberman 94 is in a kind of an odd space - very playable without translation, so the value of translation is not so obvious

[stiff lotus]

clone yourself plz

[grand moss]

Lot of shooters also in that same position

[grand moss]

I'm not sure the world would be ready for that

[random beacon]

No Tina hack for New Adventure Island either.

[blazing hatch]

The menus for the 2p modes are sadly non obvious. While I agree that the value of a translation is less obvious (compared to e.g. JRPGS), the amount of pure translation work is much less or maybe zilch if the texts can be reused from Mega Bomberman

It's a strange situation. When friends come to play with me we end up to play either Bomberman 93 or Mega Bomberman on the Genesis

Just because of that menu trial and error to find the most fitting 2P settings

[grand moss]

Well, maybe somebody will translate it at some point

That one is a little more complicated than many others because the text is not stored uncompressed

[blazing hatch]

Ah, ok. I guess that this is main problem then.

[grand moss]

Plus, a lot of later games popped up all sorts of graphics (displaying text in alternate fonts/styles), which complicates things, especially when the graphcis are also stored compressed

[primal inlet]

Devil's Crush shirt

[grand moss]

AsianShock ?

Hmm.. maybe not, they seem to only Alien Crush...

Oh... wait, is that one from "back in the day" ?

[primal inlet]

Yup. Thought people might find it cool here

[fossil pumice]

@wary wolf i've just seen that you where the one implementing the option 4 and 5 in mister video_mode. I encountered that in the pc enginge core, when using option 5 and ultra wide screen resolution, an odd vertical ressolution is set. That causes a garbage line at the bottom. Are you aware of that?

The other day I posted some pictures about that problem: #1073797664195494028 message

[graceful root]

You sure that line isn’t usually there in overscan on real hardware?

[fossil pumice]

I don't have the real hardware for comparison but the fact that the vertical res is unpair (odd) makes me suspect it can be something general

[fossil pumice]

It would be interesting to find another core that scales also to an odd vertical resolution

When overscan option is changed, the vertical resolution changes to an even one and coincidentally the problem goes away

[grand moss]

The odd/even vertical resolution thing ison real hardware. It was implemented in the VCE as a means by which to either improve clarity of text by reducing artifacts or improve graphics. 262 versus 263 lines per field.

but I think you're talking about what happens inside the scaler as a result of this input - which I am not familiar with, and is controlled by many variables.

[fossil pumice]

wickerwaka could apport some info. I'm also inclined in thinking this garbage line is something in between the scaler and the final output rather than the core output

[dreamy tiger]

mode 4 and 5 might have weird rounding errors depending on your display resolution.

some displays don't like the resolution those modes spit out

[fossil pumice]

I have the error in an ultra wide monitor and in a 16:9 standard one. Am I the only one with video_mode=5 having this line at the bottom?

I have only the castelvania game and is the only one I have tested. Don't know if it's happening in other games

[dreamy tiger]

I can check with I'm home. rondo of blood?

[fossil pumice]

Yes, rondo of blood

[dreamy tiger]

ok, I will look

ive not seen it in 4, but I know one of my screens hates TG16 in 4

[fossil pumice]

In the ultra wide monitor I was able to check that the resolution of the monitor was 694 while the mister output was 693

[dreamy tiger]

what video_mode are you using?

[fossil pumice]

In the normal 16:9 didn't check

Video_mode=5

When changed it to iirc 0, the problem was gone because the resolution was kept the same

[dreamy tiger]

not vscale_mode, video mode

[fossil pumice]

It is mode 5 that creates weird resolutions 😅

[dreamy tiger]

; 1 - 1024x768@60
; 2 - 720x480@60
; 3 - 720x576@50
; 4 - 1280x1024@60
; 5 - 800x600@60
; 6 - 640x480@60
; 7 - 1280x720@50
; 8 - 1920x1080@60
; 9 - 1920x1080@50
;10 - 1366x768@60
;11 - 1024x600@60
;12 - 1920x1440@60
;13 - 2048x1536@60
;14 - 2560x1440@60
;
; custom mode: hact,hfp,hs,hbp,vact,vfp,vs,vbp,Fpix_in_KHz[,hsyncp,vsyncp]
;  example: video_mode=1280,110,40,220,720,5,5,20,74250,+hsync,-vsync
;
; calculated mode: width,height,refresh[,flags]
;  example: video_mode=1920,1200,60
; flags - cvt=CVT timing, cvtrb=CVT-RB timing (default)
;video_mode=0```

[fossil pumice]

One moment. I'll check

Vscale_mode=5 and video mode 1720x720@60 for the ultrawide

For the normal monitor it is just the vscale_mode=5

[dreamy tiger]

Ok, so just to be clear, your video mode line is video_mode=1720,720,60? Or is it disabled and autodetectling?

what is the native res of your ultra wide?

[fossil pumice]

In both cases the line is there. It looks it's caused by the 5 mode in the scaler

[dreamy tiger]

not in the OSD, int he mister.ini

[fossil pumice]

As the line was also appearing in a normal 16:9 1080p monitor I'll start testing just vscale_mode=5 and the video mode in auto

And the tgfx core

[dreamy tiger]

what is the native res of your monitor?

[fossil pumice]

The ultrawide is twice: 3440x1440

That's why I set a custom video mode in order to keep aspect ratio correctly

Overscan must be set to hidden

[dreamy tiger]

gotcha, so the ultrawide will try to scale if it isn't fed a resolution in the proper AR?

[fossil pumice]

It's not scaling. The osd says the output resolution of the game is 270x231. The resolution to the monitor is 1656x693. The resolution reported by the monitor is 1656x694

It could lead to think is a problem with the monitor, but as I've said before it also happens with a normal 1080p monitor

I think the problem arises with the resolution of that game (or that system)

[dreamy tiger]

yeah, as I mentioned, I have a screen that doesn't like vscale mode 5 and that core

[fossil pumice]

Testing with sf2' ROM that I discovered I have here, the game res is the same as rondo and with the same trash line at the bottom

Problem here, I suspect, is that the core or something upper in the video mode processing pipe is generating and odd resolution and that's not very nice to digital monitors to say it in some way 😅

Because two different monitors with different native resolutions shows the same trash line at bottom I believe is something at mister side