#Computer Cores

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

stiff steeple
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honestly it sucks

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the CPU is enormously complex though, and chips like OPL3 have no alternatives floating around and as of yet nobody has rewritten them

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it has a fairly odd structure with it's bus too but that's manageable

fast kraken
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i'm mainly thinking of the cpu here

stiff steeple
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the cpu is auto-generated from c code

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the opl3 is just software emulation running on a small z80 cpu

fast kraken
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some instructions run too fast, some too slow, as i understand it

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in terms of ops/clock

stiff steeple
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there's other issues hard to deal with

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I think it's roughly 3 fpga clocks to 1 real clock in terms of speed

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it has to deal with ram speed and other things as well

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it's a small wonder it runs though

fast kraken
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it depends heavily what the exact workload is though

stiff steeple
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around 386 era computer games started to get pretty interesting and it's nice to be able to access those, despite the many thorns

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alexey seems to want to create a version that uses a pi as an accelerator

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which I really hate that idea, it would let you have a more accurate cpu up to pentium and dial it down to some tiny level if you wanted an xt though

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I can't deny the usefulness of that despite hating the grossness of the required hybrid setup it would take

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unlike amiga where the accelerators are largely academic, for x86 there is acctual software made that could make solid use of them

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diablo, windows 98, ME, etc, and quake, etc

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and plenty of games like duke3d that don't run great but are hard to deal with on modern machines

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it would cover that gap

woven lava
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thats the point of spark's recent pull request. question remains how do we deternine what we want to keep as simple options

stiff steeple
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what i'm saying is that labeling it 286 386 etc is wrong

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that's not how it works

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you could do high medium and low

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or pick arbitrary numbers like it is now

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but a 286, a 386, and a 486 are very distinct things, and it's not accurate

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as much as you want it to represent generations of systems, it doesn't, and trying to force it to isn't the right approach

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it's a 486 cpu

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the speed of it doesn't follow historical performance for systems of that era, so it's very much a case by case basis

fast kraken
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what if we take robs doubleclocked PSX mips cpu

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and write an instruction decoder frontend for it to run x86 code

vestal ginkgo
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My point was what does 90Mhz mean to you as a user?

stiff steeple
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it means 90mhz

vestal ginkgo
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for what? I am a user, why am I setting 90Mhz on the 486 core

stiff steeple
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because it's the highest number

fast kraken
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there isn't zero value in it saying 90mhz vs 56mhz, at least that gives you some idea of relative speed

stiff steeple
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right

fast kraken
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even though it could just as easily say 9 speedunits and 6 speedunits

stiff steeple
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percentages would probably be better

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100%

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50%

vestal ginkgo
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not arguing, I get why its there, it just makes little less sense even when comparing it to what sparks changes did, at least that way you are closer to what the user should expect.

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yes that

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agreed, that would be fine

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as long as there is a 42%

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😄

stiff steeple
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I agree the mhz is a red herring

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im just strongly against trying to reductively force it to seem like it's representing a system of a certain era, because it absolutely doesn't

fast kraken
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percentages kind of make sense until rob comes along and boosts the performance another 400%

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then it'd be like, oh 50 is the new 90 and so on

vestal ginkgo
stiff steeple
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it's not really 286 speed

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it's like a 286 with an ultra fast ram and hdd

vestal ginkgo
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I fixed my comment

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😄

stiff steeple
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right

vestal ginkgo
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and bloddy fast VGA

stiff steeple
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so saying "286" is misleading people into thinking it should behave like a 286

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because, it won't

vestal ginkgo
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yeah yeah, okay.... Okay, so I still like the percentages idea.

stiff steeple
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I think percentages would be an improvement

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you think i'm being pedantic I know

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but the next thing you get is a bug report saying "286 doesn't have so and so 286 behavior"

vestal ginkgo
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I don't, I like the discussion.

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I just know the MHZ option not really being the acutal MHZ of the 486 CPU (which is also measured in mhz) doesn't work either

stiff steeple
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agreed

gloomy void
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Just a note.

The line in the OSD is called "CPU Speed", not just CPU. That alone might lead any user to assume that it is the relative speed that is being discussed, not the CPU itself. And as I also suggested to sorgelig, we can make it even clearer by putting "as 286 16Mhz", for example, instead of just "286 16Mhz". Then if people interpret it differently, it's because they want to.

My opinion, that's all.

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CPU speed is just that, CPU speed, not CPU system or anything else.

stiff steeple
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I just don't see how architecture is relevant to speed

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"386" is not a rating of speed

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it's a specific cpu, with specific features and behavior

vestal ginkgo
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but the "386" era does give you a sense of speed and the games that were in that segment. I think of it like the game boxes, with minimum spec ratings. what if we thought about it like that? anything is better than it sits today, L1 and L2 are actually the caches, just like in a real system, where as "CPU Clock" is not the actual CPU clock in MHZ.

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probably beating a dead horse now from my side.

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CPU Class? I guess that would still get people thinking they were running that actual processor and not a 486.
Minimum CPU Class Required: Intel i386

image.png
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Looks like most just call out the "class" of processor. 8086, 286, 386, and then when you get to the like of Doom and Duke 3d they start calling out specific speeds

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though Doom's box says "386" so...

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Dukes got very specific, 486 DX2/66

image.png
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ok I'm done

thick pendant
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to me, ao486 high "CPU Clock" to performance ratio is just like the AMD 133mhz 5x86 which had real world performance anywhere between a 60-90mhz Pentium.

stiff steeple
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a 386 dx can outperform a 486 sx in some tasks

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no tasks relevant to our general needs, but some tasks 🙂

thick pendant
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just the SX? I thought the 486 SX and DX where the exact same speed for integer stuff

stiff steeple
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they are, but not for floating point

undone anvil
# stiff steeple but the next thing you get is a bug report saying "286 doesn't have so and so 28...

Hmm.. If we're talking about the ao486, I would suggest they look at the name of the core, and perhaps even the first line of the features section of the github readme.md. The common person using the MiSTer to play games isn't that nerdy about these details and technicalities. To the layman, those architectures are relevant to speed. Probably because of the way they are referenced in system requirements.

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If someone makes a bug report like that, I'd have a feeling they're either trolling or nerdflexing

clear meadow
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I feel like a big-time rewrite of ao486 is coming at some point on MiSTer

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Might take a few years, but I can see it happen

undone anvil
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perhaps it'll be a new 486 core forked from the PCXT core 😄

clear meadow
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Worst case, it'll just be now a native 486SX 33 implementation rather than the weird 486 we have

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Hopefully we can at least get the DX version of that chip though

undone anvil
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Whatever it is, I'm looking forward to it.

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hopefully based on real hardware which will actually work properly with its drivers

clear meadow
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We'll see though

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And hey, what's a few years to us MiSTer junkies?
By then, we'll probably have other crazy things to mess with

stiff steeple
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regardless of clock speed

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a pentium 60 can do a lot that a 486 60 could not

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also, you're underestimating the bug reports for mister

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it's a project full of detail oriented people

undone anvil
# stiff steeple it's a project full of detail oriented people

I get what you're saying. Perhaps it's an issue of whether or not the project will be approachable by the common retro gamer if settings are labeled to such detail oriented standards.. If I'm a random guy who just wants to play games, I won't care about such differences. I might only tweak that setting according to the minimum requirements of the game as they are written. That would be my primary if not sole point of reference.

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Sometimes I feel that there should be separate menus for basic and advanced users

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It's hard enough to get some of my friends into MiSTer, even though it's such a great value.

thick pendant
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I don't understand why people think ao486 is so bad that we need an entirely new 486 core...

clear meadow
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But who knows, maybe after that the Bochs performance does turn out to be superior in the end

inner relic
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ao486 is a hack and doesn't feel like when you use a real i486

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they want it for the same reason they wanted a new MSX core

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or the PCXT core

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it's also never been fully debugged so it has a list of issues

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but even if you went through and debugged it, in the end you end up withing something that doesn't feel like real hardware

woven lava
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we had a similar discussion before pcxt came along

hollow ice
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I mainly don’t like ao486 because I can’t boot some of those old cool Unix/Linux operating systems. The IDE implementation is also wonky and breaks the next/openstep install

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Otherwise it is great

woven lava
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benchmarks may not be perfect but they are well established in PC user "culture", so thats the best we have short of writing a new core

hollow ice
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I tried debugging it a while back, and for some reason I think the sector per track value was being reset to 0. Probably something that would be relatively easy to fix if I would have caught the error.

woven lava
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IDE setup is the samd as pcxt now so both cores would benefit

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ao486 could use some OSD simplification though. I'd move the option to disable both caches together to a debug menu, for example

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as that results in really slow speeds that arent useful for any end user, as far as I can tell

inner relic
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depending on where the bug is in the IDE implementation, the PCXT might never experience it

woven lava
stiff steeple
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yes

woven lava
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we could pull a move from the Intel marketing department and have fake CPU names that roughly suggest speed classes

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ao486 tx 4.77Mhz (XT like)
ao486 ax 8Mhz (AT like)
ao486 px 16Mhz (ps/2 like)

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kind of silly but it doesnt come with claim of acccuracy

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or at least use the "xX" tag to indicate the cache config (both off, both on, etc)

thick pendant
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That is kinda like the old "PR" rating thing...

woven lava
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yes... fitting since ao486 is a clone 😁

thick pendant
inner relic
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I owned one of those Cyrix chips and it had major compatibility issues and was horrible for gaming

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it also ran very hot

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duplicating an i486 should be the ultimate end goal

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anything else is ultimately going to be unsatisfying

thick pendant
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I liked my 486DLC and only got rid of it because I wanted VLBUS

inner relic
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and yes there were multiple video standards but the thing the PC has going for it is every is connected to each other over a relatively slow bus

thick pendant
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486 machines had EISA, Microchannel, VLBUS, and maybe even PCI...

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ao486 is most like VLBUS which is great. Maybe there could be a option added to slow down access to the video RAM.

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I like ao486 and (except for the elusive DPMI extender bugs), I think its made excellent incremental progress over the years - thanks to the devs...

inner relic
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I think at least the CPU should be reworked at some point in the future

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a future better core doesn't preclude continuing to fix bugs in ao486 in the meantime

thick pendant
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Maybe the CPU could be run on the HPS ARM

inner relic
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probably not, the minimig hybrid experiment wasn't really all that sucessful

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too many bottlenecks

thick pendant
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Well, I do think Amiga is a more tightly integrated system

inner relic
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but it's also an exponentially easier CPU for ARM to emulate

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which is why they decided to start with it in the first place

thick pendant
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I have run DOSBOX on the MiSTer, and the CPU performance is like a 386, but that is emulation the entire system, not just the CPU...

inner relic
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but that's the thing, the 68000 emulation on the ARM CPU itself was fast, but once they tried to hook it into the core performance was significantly slower

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because of multiple bottlenecks in communication between the FPGA and the SOC

stiff steeple
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you'd probably need a pi to get any real gains

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I think with a pi4 you could get pentium

fast kraken
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if you've already got a pi4 though just like, run dosbox on it

thick pendant
stiff steeple
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the overhead of having it this way might not be worth it, it's hard to tell, but I think you'd end up the same or slower, and an fpu doesn't get you much

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maybe make quake marginally playable at like 10 fps

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might as well go for broke if you're gonna go that route

thick pendant
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I like to run old 3D and weird stuff - in addition to games obviously

stiff steeple
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a pentium would actually get some real gains, diablo and a lot of windows 95 games

thick pendant
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So like Autodesk 3D MAX needs FPU

stiff steeple
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well, okay

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if you're gonna do some cad work 90's style I guess it's useful

thick pendant
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Or make some cheesy 3D models and animation.

clear meadow
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Also, you've got to understand
Some people just want FPUs "just because they're neat"

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It may not be sensible/reasonable, but it's Neat to Have the Option™️

thick pendant
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Just stuff I used to mess around with applications I experienced in the 90s when I had my peg leg and parrot.

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Same with Minimig, would love a FPU

woven lava
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hybrid approach might be worth it for 3d acceleration, but the FPGA might not be able to handle the CPUs of that era anyway

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so maybe the FPFA could be a GPU for a Dosbox running on ARM/Pi, but that would be a completely different kind of setup than what MiSTer does

clear meadow
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We'll see how it goes
Maybe a new PC core could be one of Robert's future projects or something

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(not necessarily his next one!)

woven lava
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would be cool to build up eg 186/286 then 386 etc

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if possible reusing parts (same vga etc) so we end up with a modular design

clear meadow
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Maybe in the future

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For now, I got my many old computers and similar programs

north haven
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Is an architectural 80286 needed or just more speed than the MCL86? Adding speed is easier but adapting the MCL86 to a 80286, which is also a 16-bit machine, is also doable with some effort. But it would only add a few new instructions and some other structural changes which would allow it to be sensed as a 286... I am wondering if there is some magic that happens once a 286 is detected which allows software to run that cannot with the 8088.

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I would think more applications would become available with a 386 rather than upgrading to a 286,...

clear meadow
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Once again
It's the "Nice to Have the Option" mentality again

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Practicality be damned

inner relic
stiff steeple
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you know, if the cache is a problem, you could just add more clock dividers

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if you need it slower

woven lava
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but its not just the CPU, wouldnt we get benefits from a 24bit RAM bus and 16 bit ISA?

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it would be able to address 16MB of RAM, not sure about speed impact

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a "186" (or clone like a NEC V30) plus those chipset changes may be enough to reach AT-like and low end 386 speeds, to cover anything before the 486

gloomy void
woven lava
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right, but then it could be a separate core

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to simplify

gloomy void
woven lava
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that is true in any circumstance 😅

surreal marsh
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Is there something that ao486 won't run because it doesn't behave enough like a CPU of the time, rather than because of the bugs? (Well, a CPU of the time doesn't have the bugs but you know what I mean).

inner relic
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and technically not running specific software is also a bug

woven lava
thick pendant
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2.0 worked anyway

vestal ginkgo
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OS/2 was the best mutitasker for BBS hosting back in the day. I used deskqview for the longest time before finally switching.

thick pendant
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Yeah, I had added added a 2nd RLL controller to that machine which I had cut the trace to the IRQ and changed the port address. The 3'd and 4th drives used polling, but worked well enough for a BBS. haha, 400mb of storage on a 486DLC

vestal ginkgo
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that was popular I'll bet. "restricted Area" 😉

thick pendant
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I really just ran the BBS to get cheap USR modems

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If you ran a BBS USR rep would practically give you a modem.

vestal ginkgo
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I was using mom and dad and Christmas money at that time and did not have the business acumen to milk USR for equipment 🙂

undone anvil
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It would be nice if there were real hardware that a 486 core is tested against. otherwise, isn't it kind of a fantasy computer that is based on a 486?

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That's my main issue with ao486, it doesn't seem to be based on a specific computer.

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perhaps an IBM PC 300 Series 486 would do

opal void
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even better, merging all present and future IBM PC compatible cores into something modular/configurable akin to 86box ❤️

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but that's just my opinion

thick pendant
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The cores are not modular, so combining all features into a single RBF is simply not doable

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ao486 is already at capacity

undone anvil
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it would be interesting if one could compile an RBF according to specific hardware that you want in the core.

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but even if that were feasible, it's probably best to start with something standard

opal void
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@void belfry I tried to use carnivore 2 on one of my MSX1 computers... but it is not booting

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apparently it needs an alternative firmware to boot on Arabic MSX computers, and all my MSX's are of the Arabic variants 😄

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which means I'll have to buy a USB blaster to write the new firmware to the cartridge

opal void
void belfry
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@opal void Thanks for testing 🙂 Maybe one day will have a full MSX2 core (maybe also with RS232 or other UNAPI carts support)

hushed lance
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I really hope so for msx2. I finally was able to open up msx1 and enjoyed it

void belfry
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The one we have now (OCM based one) is nice too, except the minor inconvenience (for me at least) for lacking of direct loading of floppies/tapes/carts. But it can do this, so I'm happy enough 🙂

20220826_161452-screen.png
woven lava
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@gloomy void sent you a pull request with the changes (new labels and tweaked some of them)

# 
User Defined
ao486 XT 7
ao486 AT 8
ao486 AT 10
ao486 AT 20
ao486 PS/2 20
ao486 3SX 25
ao486 3DX 33
ao486 3DX 40
ao486 4SX 33
ao486 MAX (stable)
ao486 MAX (unstable)```
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I labeled all of them "ao486" to flag that it's all the same CPU... just different settings

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it does work quite nicely - it's basically steps of performance and it's fast to switch to find one that works with your game

opal void
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I won't give up, will still try it on MSX 1 before trying it on one of the MSX 2s that I have 😉

gloomy void
woven lava
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no, the configs are tweaked a bit

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but same principle

gloomy void
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Won't let you modify the pull request with these suggestions?

woven lava
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I sent you a PR with changes, how do I merge it to your PR?

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I figured I had to merge to your repo first

gloomy void
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OK, I've seen it. I have merge the change and now I see if the PR is also updated to sorgelig.

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Well, I've already seen that it is automatically added to the PR, I guess sorgelig must have received some notification.

woven lava
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hopefully

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I can copy the description in my PR as a comment in yours?

gloomy void
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Yes 👍🏻

hybrid flame
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@void belfry @opal void @hushed lance did you guys miss this post? #1047332497492553799 message

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(actually I know @opal void didn't 😛 )

plush zephyr
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Any plan on an official PC98 core in the (near?) Future?

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Just wondering if one is currently in development

granite umbra
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Puu-san released some RBFs of PC98 but it is still early stage

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Some games works but they are slow

plush zephyr
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Thanks for the info 🙂

waxen brook
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Heya folks, the final #game-challenge of 2022 is for the Amiga version of Rogue!

This one goes until the new year, and is a score competition. Take a picture of your tombstone with name and score on it, and post in that channel if you want to join in!

waxen brook
void belfry
hushed lance
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I saw it. I was just hoping development goes smoothly

void belfry
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lol, and I see another core (max delay on me lol)

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I had no idea about this HU computer 😄 thanks @tawny egret @autumn hatch

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I live in a city with many HU friends (most of them colleagues and nerds) so for sure will have a good little fun showing and them translating to me :)))

tawny egret
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hope you enjoy it. was fun putting it together this last month

somber dune
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I know people will hate me for saying this but I no longer update mister or look at it because it is just a games machine now. Most people who started in home computers in the late 70s very early 80s want to code. They used calculators/Zx80s and so on. This is just swamped now by the gamers.

copper slate
inland stream
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damn kids

void belfry
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To each its own 🙂 Anyway, this Homelab is quite intriguing : seems it has a Braille version as well. Loaded some (4 actually) HTP files I quickly found, I can say they work, though language barrier prevents me for understanding much atm :)) That is why I said I am lucky to have HU speaking nerd friends 😄

lunar trellis
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Homelab has a decent sized library, there is a pack up on archive

somber dune
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Well my. Apologies to all in the group. I had a grumpy day. You know who work on mister have have real talent and they have to work on what interests them personably. I taught myself to code without the internet and with few books but my days are gone so I salute the fpga people. I used to walk around the coin arcades just to looks at the hardware and what amazing things it could do. Space harrier was stunning to look at but a dreadful game. Which is more important to encapsulate in reproducible logic for people to preserve and experience, Space Harrier or the xerox parc machines?

lunar trellis
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What cores do you like using and are there any features you think are missing? Any cores you are hoping come to MiSTer?

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It is always worth updating MiSTer as the computer cores routinely get nice updates and we tend to get a new computer core about once a month

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I would expect to get a good few more in the coming months based off what people have said they are working on alone, let alone the surprise cores that pop up unannounced

hybrid flame
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@somber dune you can disable the game cores from the updates - computers/consoles will still be downloaded

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most of the computer cores are very mature and don't get a lot of updates anymore

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same goes for some of the console and arcade cores

lunar trellis
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It doesn't take more than a few seconds to upload game cores, even if there are a few, probably not worth the time to disable them especially now with the database system

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You also would lose the consoles that have additional functionality to turn them into computers

hybrid flame
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yeah my SD card is bigger than 4Gb

thick pendant
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I'll be getting a 1TB next, put my current 512 in my older MiSTer

gloomy void
void belfry
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Finally made Betrayal at Krondor to work (DOS 7.1, QEMM), 3hrs already of playing this gem on ao486 (didn't bothered with MIDI yet, maybe bit later). me happy today lol 😄

20221217_133212-screen.png
thick pendant
void belfry
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I remember this game being picky with memory setup as well back then. I had then also some similar issues freeing every bit of conventional mem I could.

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It needs at least 595 KB conventional mem + at least 1meg or more of Expanded mem

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Midi works as well 🙂 Now this is smth new to enjoy (on my old 486 I only had a Sb clone , think it was some ESS Audiodrive if my memory serves me)

copper slate
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@void belfry damn that game looks cool

void belfry
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a classic RPG and one of my faves, alongside Lands of Lore Chaos Throne and Fallout 1. What also gives me an extra nostalgic kick is that I can play all these now on MiSTer from the very first installed bytes on my first PC almost 30 years ago. Carried that hdd with me all these years and it's a fun way to rediscover what my teen me played with 😄

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fully recommend the game

copper slate
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Thanks for the recommendation!

pure fog
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Anyone run X68k over hdmi on a modern tv? Bonus if it’s a C1. Tried chorensha last night and while it seemed to work at first, the video would drop out and back in intermittently

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Other cores I tried seemed fine

opal void
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@void belfry couldn't upgrade the firmware on the carnivore 2 because I am missing specific parts to do the job...

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Kept fiddling with it on ax-170 and managed to get the ide running but I'm facing a very weird issue

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When partitioning the SD using fdisk on MSX, it no longer detects it after a hard reboot

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And it won't detect it if I format the partition on windows

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Also I'm not certain how to boot msx-dos2 on MSX 1

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I imagine it's possible with carnivore2 since it provides additional RAM, just unsure how

modest skiff
opal void
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it could be that the SunriseIDE BIOS ROM version in my actual Carnivore2 acting up

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although it worked fine last year :/

opal void
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sweet!

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1MB RAM on an MSX1 😄

copper slate
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who needs more than 512kb?

opal void
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ikr

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now I have to figure out how to install UZIX on that MSX1

hushed lance
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Whatchu working on brody ?

opal void
thick pendant
opal void
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@void belfry I also have tried the UZIX boot disk on an MSX 2, after trying to load for a few minutes... it decided not to :/

image.png
void belfry
void belfry
opal void
hybrid flame
# opal void

aw 🙂 do yourself a favor push f10 and type in set scanlines 0

hybrid flame
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(spoiler I didn't lift a finger - it's all automated)

opal void
hybrid flame
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ok set scanlines 15 set blur 100 set noise 15

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try that if you like em so much 😄

undone anvil
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100mhz on ao486 working well for you guys?

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does it by any chance make windows 98 run more smoothly?

thick pendant
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Its a 10% increase going from 90-100mhz. a 10% is not going to be a game changer...

opal void
thick pendant
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It probably won't even be noticeable...

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except for the decreased stability that is...

undone anvil
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in theory, yes.. just wondering if anyone's tried

vestal ginkgo
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I don't spend too much time in Windows on the ao486 core, it just isn't that great of an experience. Getting the lite version does help. Here is what you can expect from the 100MHZ version if it is stable on your specific DE10.

image.png
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so 42.11 fps to 46.37 in fast doom

undone anvil
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funny its almost exactly a 10% difference 😄

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then again I remember on my childhood 486, I needed to have the screen size at 80% to get smooth gameplay

thick pendant
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@vestal ginkgo from what I understand is that one build of ao486 for example might be stable on one MiSTer, but not another one, and the next build the opposite

#

generally though, in my experience, I have one DE-10 that is less stable with cores that have timing constraint issues.

vestal ginkgo
#

yeah, I have one DE10 that it depends on the build, I ran through all the ones that birdy did that one time on that one and had mixed results. My other two don't seem to have problems at 100Mhz no matter what.

thick pendant
#

is the less stable one older?

#

My less stable one is older, but Sorg told me that the he found his older one to be more stable.

undone anvil
#

It's a little odd that DE10's vary in performance. I thought they are all factory built to a spec

granite umbra
thick pendant
undone anvil
#

@thick pendant I know different manufactures like to tweak those things. Making it confusing as to which is the better option: gigabit, msi, evga, etc

#

when it comes to gpus at least

thick pendant
#

Yeah, I had an AMD CPU (can't remember the model) which was had some shaders disabled and there was a way to enable them. It ran fine... Told a coworker about it and he went to the same store(sleazy Tiger Direct) bought the same card, did the same hack and it made artifacts everywhere....

vestal ginkgo
void belfry
opal void
void belfry
#

lol, it is exact the same I have 😛

#

so many goodies, hope one day we can run them on MiSTer 😄

image.png
opal void
void belfry
opal void
void belfry
#

I didn't try on actual machine, I have no ram expansion (or any cartridges whatsoever). any floppies I'd use I would have to use the cover the hole trick, i guess

#

hope to get one day an OSSC and some GR8net (would target this to connect to internet lol) or some Carnivore/other carts

#

back to Uzix, works ok on standard F1XDmk2 rom + 512k ram in slot 1

#

need to figure out how to partition a hdd image, one with MSXDOS 2, the other to install Uzix

opal void
tall grotto
opal void
#

oh found it

#

yeah it works! ❤️

#

oh wait I got this instead

image.png
void belfry
tall grotto
#

i use it to manage my floppies for these cores haha

void belfry
tall grotto
#

not sure what kind of disk they use though. ImDisk supports a TON of formats

void belfry
opal void
void belfry
tall grotto
#

I'd expect that ImDisk would work then

#

if it's normal FAT12/16

#

There's also this tool

#

Discussed here

#

"It's a pretty new and simple app for now, but should do everything required - create new images easily, add there new files with drag-drop or a dialog, delete files etc. And of course save to those DSK/HFE formats."

#

as for partitioning, I'm not sure

#

check your DM's though. I found a source of a lot of useful utilities possibly

void belfry
opal void
#

hmmm could be because I didn't bother to unzip it 😄

void belfry
#

lol

#

unzip the damn thing, it's not the entire PSX collection

opal void
#

yep just unzipped and got booted on the best MSX2 that I have 😄

image.png
opal void
void belfry
#

now how to generate a full VHD install of Uzix and throw it against MiSter 😄

tall grotto
#

what Uzix are you guys using anyway. 0.2.1?

# 
-----------------------------

* Why?

    Because many things changed from UZIX 0.2.0 to 0.2.1, and because
it has been a long time since the last UZIX version was released, I
decided to release an alpha version of UZIX 0.2.1. Why this version is
called 'alpha'? Because I still wanna add direct access to floppy disk
drivers and dynamic memory allocation by applications before releasing
the 'official' version. Also, any report of a yet undiscovered bug is
allways welcome, ensuring a more stable 'official' version.

* What's new?

Big improvements:
- Direct access to Sunrise IDE, CIEL IDE, ESE MegaSCSI, Novaxis and BERT
  harddisk interfaces.
- Simultaneous access up to 64 different disk devices.
- Access to any partition of any device of harddisk interfaces.
- UZLO 2.0 (allows booting even MSXDOS1).
- Enhanced interrupt system: Sunrise RS232 can handle 56kbps with Z80 7MHz
  and 33kbps with Z80 3.5MHz;

Other improvements:
- More robust PPPD application;
- CHAT accepts \c and \d escape sequences for "send" strings;
- Fixed a bug in rm command of sash;
- Added ZICA do distribution;
- Fixed some bugs in installation program;
- Fixed bugs in filesystem (mount and unlinking device entries);
- Fixed a bug in piping;
- Fixed a bug in /dev/lpr handling;
- Fixed a bug in pppd for incoming error messages;
- More file descriptors (meaning more simultaneous opened files);
- Access to 5 mounted UZIX filesystems simultaneously;
- /etc/fstab file is now processed at UZIX startup;
- Smarter intallation program;
- Optimized kernel performance;

* And...?```
#

might be important to do what you're trying to do @void belfry

#

based on the improvements listed

void belfry
#

for now, we confirmed booting he 0.2.0 floppy disk image on OpenMSX (both Sony HB and Al Alamiah)

#

didn't yet touch the install part on ESE megascsi image.

#

"- More robust PPPD application;" -- as a network engineer I love to see this kind of stuff on seemingly impossible to support systems

#

this would be nice to lol if it would work , to not monopolize the thread with MSX 😛

20221220_202235-screen.png 20221220_202428-screen.png
tall grotto
void belfry
#

whatever I tried, couldn't make it to work (even just as modem) on MiSTer, but I don't have a real C64 to test if it works on real machine as well

tall grotto
#

he just called it "alpha" because it didn't have a couple features he felt he wanted to finish before calling it "stable"

#

but ultimately they are also missing from 0.2.0 anyway

#

Oh you swapped to a different machine lol

#

people have always touted the GBC pack for C64. But my issue is that the GBC pack is intended for use on modern PC's

#

It's not really organized for putting on something like a MiSTer

#

So it's not really as useful in that regard

void belfry
#

to show there's Unix (and possible slip/ppp/mdm connections ) also on the other side of 8-bits

void belfry
granite umbra
#

@gloomy void I found a bug with the credits on PCXT core.
How to reproduce ?
Click F12 to show credits
Click ALT+F12 to open the OSD
Change Model on System Bios form Tandy to PCXT
Reset & Apply
You will have this screen and F12 will not permit to toggle off the credits

gloomy void
granite umbra
hybrid flame
#

@opal void the MSX was not important in the history of games 😛

image.png
opal void
hybrid flame
#

I did

solar forge
#

any tips for how i can play games like giana sisters in c64 core? i have a keyboard and a controller and i can't move the main character no matter what i do. i've tried setting the joystick and such, but it just won't go.

#

i am a zoomer, so i apologize, i'm not very familiar with c64 etiquette, but i want to be.

#

they just stand there like a fool until the time runs out

image.png
#

i had the same problem with jumpman. i just can't move or do anything, though i'm able to get through all the menus fine

coral coral
#

Try the “joystick swap” setting

solar forge
#

that did it! how did you know? :O

opal void
coral coral
#

It’ll map the player 1 input to joystick port 2, which is used for input on the majority of C64 games

gloomy bolt
solar forge
#

that's why i like it

gloomy bolt
#

Optiroc, apart from having the coolest name on the server, is dead on.

copper slate
#

I really need to get into the C64

solar forge
#

i'm not new to retro computers or anything, i'm just new to specifically the c64

#

i grew up with an atari 400 LOL

gloomy bolt
#

I always try then just listen to the M.U.L.E. theme for 30 minutes.

#

Amiga continued the "Swap Joysticks" tradition, so always try that first there as well.

copper slate
#

What is swap joysticks and why is it a thing?

coral coral
#

Indeed, but on Amiga it made more sense as the default setup was to have mouse in port 1

gloomy bolt
#

Assumptions are why it's a thing, I think. Assumptions that you'd have a mouse or some other peripheral in 1..that's my assumption! It could be a huge number of things.

#

Right

#

Exactly that.

#

But even Atari had some jank there.

coral coral
#

(I need to set up a proper M.U.L.E. session during the holidays…)

gloomy bolt
#

A few Xbox games won't work with the controller in any port but 1, so the whole thing recently echoed. (ed: 2 decades isn't exactly recent, I guess)

#

Yeah!!

coral coral
#

Is the C64 version the best? For me it’ll probably always be anyway since it’s the one I played, but I actually never even saw another one

gloomy bolt
#

I mean....for the exact reason you say... yes, but I know that's a lot of bias on my part.

#

The SID theme, to me, does make it the best defacto, though.

hollow ice
#

It is based on the way the system handled joystick and keyboard input. Joystick in port one could cause spurious keyboard inputs, so to avoid that most developers used port 2

sweet scarab
#

On various computer cores there are ways to map keyboard functions to controller buttons. But last time I looked into this, this config was not saved, has that changed?

woven lava
#

no, still the same. would be neat if it saved or if we could load presets

#

at least it doesn't take too long to remap

sweet scarab
#

Yeah, that seems like a very useful feature to have.

thick pendant
#

C=64 developers never settled on a standard game port, port 1 shared IO with the keyboard, to make matters worse, hot-swapping the joystick port had the risk of blowing one of the CIA chips...

#

So generally the safe thing to do was to have 2 joysticks attached

undone anvil
#

Anyone had any issues with CPU: MAX/UNSTABLE in the latest unstable ao486?

#

Perhaps I've been lucky so far

#

That 10% does make a difference to me though.

#

NT4 boots faster and its snappier

#

From what I can see, the CPU usage in the task manager doesn't seem top out out as often, and when it does, it seems to settle down again more quickly.

gloomy void
undone anvil
#

🙌

granite umbra
stiff steeple
#

over 90mhz is real silicon lottery

undone anvil
stiff steeple
#

ultima7 and part2 are two of my favorite dos games, and a pita to play well

#

exult seemed promising but it never really got to a good accuracy level

wheat folio
#

Getting Ultima VII to run was harder than Ultima VII itself

undone anvil
#

I originally played U7 on SNES, and surprisingly I enjoyed it, but later I remember seeing the black box on the shelf at a game shop and wanted it so bad, but my dad insisted that we don't have a dos computer anymore, and old games won't work.

#

yeah it was around 1995

#

definitely gotta play the real thing at some point

undone anvil
stiff steeple
#

snes u7 was.. really really bad

#

almost a parody of the real game

#

strongly suggest you try the real one

undone anvil
#

hahaha yeah, but I loved the music and the graphics. I really got into it

stiff steeple
#

if you do play it, use mt32 for the music

undone anvil
#

hmm.. I do have a pi3, and an analog io.. how much will it set me back to get the remaining parts of an mt32pi?

#

I currently use that pi3 as a ps2 samba interface, but I can swap SD cards and use it for u7

copper slate
#

Never played an Ultima, which one is best for a newbie?

wheat folio
#

Whew. They’ve not aged particularly well. How tolerant are of very old games?

#

Ultima VII is a beautiful mess

tall grotto
#

@fast kraken any good that you know of?

#

Might be too new....

fast kraken
#

2003

#

probably really good

#

what size is it?

tall grotto
#

17"

#

The question is if it works lol

fast kraken
#

similar to mine

#

you'll probably find 640x480 @120hz works, aswell as 1280x960 @60hz

tall grotto
#

Dang.

thick pendant
thick pendant
undone anvil
#

I would say the last two trilogies are the best. 4, 5, 6.. and 7(black gate, forge of virtue, and serpent isle).

#

beyond 7 there are no other ultima games

#

the first trilogy is really dated, and sometimes cryptic.

#

you could even say, experimental

#

might or might not be your thing @copper slate

copper slate
#

I had Roberta Williams personally demo me Mask of Eternity at E3 and she looked so defeated.

#

She could’ve been sick but she was showing the game off to me and was just sad about it.

inland stream
#

When I met Lord British it was right after people had wrecked his castle and I felt that.

woven lava
#

never meet your heroes, and all that...

surreal marsh
#

The first Ultimas were really influential. Basically created the whole JRPG genre.

#

I'd say, start as early in the series as you can tolerate.

#

Also, don't leave out Martian Dreams and Savage Empire.

#

And it is possible to mess up by accidentally sequence breaking. Happened to me in Martian Dreams and 7.

#

Ultima 7 was cut down and censored on SNES. 6 was cut down but not so badly.

stiff steeple
#

it's really hard to play 1-4

#

6 is where things start to get somewhat modern

#

the two "worlds of ultima" games are somewhat interesting too

#

8 was weak and 9 I try to forget exists

undone anvil
#

5 is a hell of an experience though

#

It also introduced some of Ultima's most iconic music

woven lava
#

start with Akalabeth. you can speedrun it once you know how to game the RNG

#

it makes U1 look less rough 😉

#

it also helps to study the manuals of U1 to U4

undone anvil
#

While Akalabeth and 1-3 to varying degrees establish the lore to the later games, unless you actually enjoy these kinds of games, it's not worth all the grinding

surreal marsh
#

I actually started with 3 way back when. 3 on the Atari had music, I believe 4 was a port that did not.

#

I wonder if the C64 port had music or more colors.

#

Played 5 on a PC, 6 on snes, 7 and 8 on PC. Still have 9 to do someday (with the fan patches).

stiff steeple
#

Computer Cores

undone anvil
stiff steeple
#

not really

#

someone tried really hard to make 9 better but it's still pretty terrible

#

EA aquired Origin after 7 and did what EA does best, destroy worlds

#

in fact, ironically, the Guardian from Ultima 7 was tongue-in-cheek meant to represent EA

#

anyway 8 wasn't in brittania, it didnt have a party like all previous games, and kind of gave up all familiar aspects of the game

#

it also, weirdly, had tons of horrible jumping puzzles and really bad controls

#

9.. was just a disaster

#

such a sad note to end the series on

surreal marsh
#

They patched 8 to take out the jumping puzzles.

undone anvil
#

that's pretty hilarious that the Guardian represented EA

#

it's a perfect representation

hybrid flame
#

for context

stiff steeple
#

they are still there they just made the jumping less insanely bad, like you jump where you point

#

it's still pretty easy to hit the edge and insta-die in the water

chilly rain
#

and by this I mean the playvid functionality

#

where you play a video on the core

#

you run .playvid vidname i believe, not sure how to do all this, but i figure some zxnext people were here. If it can't play the 240p-480p videos that it would support, then i would be very surprised

# 
// 1 = 320x240 no palette 16.7fps 933 stereo samples @ 15.6kHz (frame size = 154) (layer 2)
// 2 = 256x240 with palette 16.7 fps 1866 stereo samples @ 31.1kHz (frame size = 129) (layer 2)
// 3 = 256x240 no palette 17fps 1866 stereo samples @ 31.1kHz (frame size = 128) (layer 2)
// 4 = 256x192 with palette 25fps 933 mono samples @ 23.3kHz (frame size = 99) (layer 2)
// 5 = 256x192 no palette 25fps 933 mono samples @ 23.3kHz (frame size = 98) (layer 2)```
#

these are the display modes of that

#

there's no way that's limited by the microsd reads lol

#

not even remotely true

#

if these don't work, then the limitation is from something else, possibly a bug or some optimization missing

thick pendant
#

@chilly rain The Minimig core can play back HAM6 and HAM8 video really well...

#

So I don't know why ZX Next would be any different...

chilly rain
#

yeah i asked the person for evidence since it sounds incorrect

thick pendant
#

What does "no palette" vs "palette" mean? how many bits per pixel?

opal void
#

so what's the best way to emulate a 486 machine nowadays? AO486 core or 86box? 🥴

stiff steeple
#

pcem/86box

#

ao486 is convenient for early 90's stuff though

opal void
#

yeah that's what I want to use it for

#

late 80's and early 90's stuff

copper slate
#

486 core works well enough for me that I’m completely satisfied! When paired up with a bit of @vestal ginkgo ‘s magic that is.

void belfry
#

Also some Windows games work quite decent for what it is under W95/NT4: Fallout 1, Panzer General 2, even Diablo 1

opal void
#

That's nice, I'll give that a shot

#

Last time I tried ao486 the experience wasn't ideal lol

#

Working with pcxt core was more enjoyable

void belfry
#

Well, I finished (for first time actually) Fallout 1 on ao486. Back in the days my PC was not very powerful (12 megs of RAM in '95-2k on a DX4 and a 512k video card)

#

@opal void you might want to head down to MSX chat to see what is booting now on the new core 😛

opal void
#

sad that I couldn't get it to boot on real hardware yet

#

need to find a way to power the carnivore2 cartridge for firmware upgrade

void belfry
#

Speaking of NT 4 workstation and ao486 🙂

My_Great_Game_-_My_Great_Capture_2022-12-28_22-20-16.png
opal void
void belfry
#

yeap

#

didn't think it would be possible lol

stiff steeple
#

is it playable

void belfry
#

pretty much yeah 🙂 just started first campaign, it runs quite ok

opal void
void belfry
#

the movies though, better skip them, NT doesn't like them much

#

justt a very short and quick capture

#

maybe/probably it would crap when more units/buildings are set, will see

opal void
#

Makes sense since it has to be very stable for enterprise applications

void belfry
#

yeah, I was biased a long time that NT is not good for gaming

woven lava
#

that looks very playable

thick pendant
#

NT was kinda a pig as far as RAM compared to its contemporaries like OS/2 and 9X witch would run well with 8mb. ao486 does have a lot of RAM...

woven lava
#

has anybody used the Zx Next core recently? It complains it cannot load the firmware

ocean zenith
undone anvil
#

NT4 does have higher system requirements than 95, but you're much less likely to get a BSOD or illegal operations

formal whale
#

Very happy that this runs on AO486! 1995 demo with more advanced features than Quake (which wants a Pentium). 🤓

undone anvil
#

I think Quake just wants an FPU, I think the later 486's can run Quake, just not very well

#

But that's a cool demo

waxen brook
formal whale
#

It was supposed to become a game, but Scavenger went under.

undone anvil
#

So is it true that the FPGA can't play MP3s? not even with AmigaAMP?

void belfry
undone anvil
# void belfry

Oh wow, this is quite impressive. is that how it's supposed to sound? I'm not familiar with that tune

#

Anyway, looks like I really should take a dive into minimig. I've never owned or used an Amiga, but it always looked like a neat system to me

void belfry
#

Me neither until MiST and MiSTer 🙂 Quite capable core, I love it.

undone anvil
#

I really want to try out the various software that are not necessarily games

void belfry
#

So you want to install by yourself stuff ? Think I have some bookmarks, lemme check, At least with AmigaOS install and MiamiDX

undone anvil
#

I really like your setup, it looks relatively modern

void belfry
#

Think there are also some links on forum as well

#

that is OS3.2, it works very nice. You need to buy it

undone anvil
#

installation cd? so you gotta rip the iso?

void belfry
#

you need the serial number from the physical CD for updates

undone anvil
#

Ah

void belfry
#

actually OS 3.2 is the easiest to install

#

it is literally like making a HDF file (either in emulator, or directly in linux with DD)

#

Think there is also some vids on YT with it

undone anvil
#

Oh wow!

void belfry
undone anvil
#

Do you by any chance use it for any productive activities? or is it more of a hobby purchase for you?

void belfry
#

neah, I don't make any money with it, I just like to tinker with toys I never had 🙂 and to connect them to internet if possible :D)))

#

yyou can experiment with different AmigaOS versions of course, and it is a nice learning curve in it

undone anvil
#

is there any benefit to using older versions though?

#

Are they free?

void belfry
#

and no, neeither the ROM filees you need

#

easy way is to buy AmigaForever

undone anvil
void belfry
#

nope 🙂

undone anvil
#

haha it says 3.x, so I had to ask

void belfry
undone anvil
#

So which model of the Amiga is the minimig closest to in replicating?

void belfry
#

You can do quite a lot with this core, even seeing CDXL movies or use OpenStreetMap lol, besides gaming ot whatever

#

even listen MODs online and chat with ppl, or IRC, BBSing..

undone anvil
#

heh, there's even a irc/discord bridge that you can host from a raspberry pi, so you can chat on discord with any irc client

void belfry
#

I mostly use it in Amiga 1200 mode, AGA, max on RAM, and kickstart rom from AmigaOS 3.2

#

as I said, mostly for internet stuff or testing programs

undone anvil
#

Whoa that is cool!

#

Is there a modern office suite for it? Does it by any chance support modern formats?

#

PDF reader and all that?

void belfry
undone anvil
#

seems a lot of those are made for morphOS

void belfry
#

other nice source for software

void belfry
undone anvil
#

alright I'll probably go ahead and buy 3.2

void belfry
#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKFS2bsBp7o&ab_channel=thera34

YouTube
thera34
Big Buck Bunny in hires CDXL format played on Amiga (Minimig) #MiST...

Hello and welcome to my channel !

CDXL is a video file format developed by Commodore in the late '80s for Amiga platforms, primarily for CDTV, to permit video playback from CD-ROM in early '90s. While initially it allowed playback of up to 24 frames/s with 12-bit colors encoded in HAM-6 and 8-bit mono/stereo sound, it was extended to support AG...

▶ Play video
undone anvil
#

I also want to buy C64OS, but I really want there to be a built in IEC storage feature built into the core. so I don't have to buy a SD2IEC, and an iec2snac,

#

maybe it could put the secondary sdcard slot to good use as well

void belfry
undone anvil
#

I really hope it gets somewhere

void belfry
#

would be very nice to have that, and from what I read not only for C64OS

undone anvil
#

yeah, could be useful for Chicli

#

and bigger games like eye of the beholder

void belfry
#

ah yes lol, forgot about EoB 🙂 oh well, still at that we have the option to save on a disk

undone anvil
#

could you link me to that thread?

#

I'm curious if sorg has said anything about this yet

#

I believe he does most of the work on that core

void belfry
undone anvil
void belfry
#

I can understand both sides, as after all it will translate in many hours of work from our devs.

undone anvil
#

I'm rather excited about the second thread you linked

#

it seems to be an enhanced c128 which will have these features, and they could be backported

#

and most importantly, the dev seems to be excited about it too. Which means this just might happen

void belfry
#

hehe, I wanna play doom on C64 with superCPU 😄

undone anvil
#

loll it seems like a really fun core

#

wow, it even has the superfx chip used in SNES carts... starfox on C128DX? that would be interesting

void belfry
#

hehe 😄

20221231_230804-screen.png
#

so many ways to "abuse" C64 😄

undone anvil
#

lol what is this?

thick pendant
thick pendant
undone anvil
thick pendant
#

AOL yes, Q-link was exclusive to C64

#

Q-link was also the home of Habitat which was first graphical MMO

#

One season of Halt and Catch Fire was based on Q-Link/Habitat as i recall...

undone anvil
#

That is cool!

thick pendant
#

Habitat eventually became the SCUMM game engine for Maniac Mansion and eventually Monkey Island... lots of history there...

undone anvil
#

Something like that would be cool to recreate. Especially if it were something that all 8-bit computers with a network connection could access

thick pendant
#

Both Q-link and AOL have been resurrected, and the is PLATOTerm...

#

Habitat is NeoHabitat now, also back

undone anvil
#

Neat! Has anyone gotten NeoHabitat to work on MiSTer?

thick pendant
#

yes. i have

#

check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjvehiEC4LU

YouTube
NML32
MiSTer (FPGA) Commodore 64: Loading NeoHabitat (C64 Virtual online ...

Update: Joystick works if you set in OSD Swap Joystick = No
Neohabitat is a relaunch of the first massively multiplayer online roleplaying game, Lucasfilm's Habitat. Originally developed in 1985 by Lucasfilm Games (now LucasArts) for the Commodore 64, Habitat is considered the grandfather of modern MMORPGs. Neohabitat is an open-source project l...

▶ Play video
undone anvil
#

nice! this is some cool stuff!

thick pendant
undone anvil
modest skiff
sudden ice
#

Anyone knows how to run MMDSP on the X68000?

void belfry
void belfry
sudden ice
#

Oh ok very nice

#

@void belfry I’ll probably ask questions when I try lol, if that is ok with you

void belfry
#

sure, no probs 🙂 see DM

#

Don't have a real X68000 and too lazy to fire up software emulator but Space Rogue, Manchi's Planet theme sounds awesome in MDX format on MiSTer 😄

pure fog
#

My favorite computer just keeps getting better, will have to try this out sometime 🥳

sudden ice
#

Need to somehow get a recording of die bahnwelt in midi

sudden ice
pure fog
#

Pretty sure that can be googled up via a certain, ahem, “archive” site

void belfry
#

if it was done, maybe it is archived somewhere. I heard of it for first time myself now lol

sudden ice
#

Or is there a humanOS.hdf availavle?

#

I can only find dimm file

void belfry
#

for creating HDF files and installing your own clean HumanOS HDF I recommend using XM6 emulator first (see the links in the pinned msg on #computer-core-testing ) as well for converting from DIM to d88 for floppy images

#

and yes, all the bootable HDF images you might find out pre-made (there are) contain HumanOS, so lazy way to delete unnecessary stuff and add you own

copper slate
#

I just discovered one of life’s greatest pleasures

#

Pronouncing it the ZEE ECKS Spectrum in front of the British

tall grotto
#

Lmfao

stiff steeple
tall grotto
#

Yeah seems normal to me

undone anvil
stiff steeple
#

Zed? the guy from hitchikers guide to the galaxy?

#

weird

north haven
lunar trellis
#

Yep, Zed Ecks all the way in the UK. If you were to say Zee Ecks we would all assume you were some kind of pervert.

undone anvil
#

Yeah I don't think they ever say "zee," it's always zed.

tall grotto
#

I think they say zed

gloomy bolt
#

Spekky is the most comon thing I've heard recently. I have to wonder if that's not YouTube shifting the zeitgeist.

copper slate
#

Ok I need an Amiga fan to explain to me why Shadow the Beast is well regarded. It’s so awful.

inland stream
#

The music

formal whale
#

The parallax

coral coral
#

Indeed. It served so well as an audio-visual showcase for the platform that it didn’t need gameplay to match to make a huge splash.

copper slate
#

Ah that makes a lot of sense, thanks everyone!

undone anvil
#

This looks pretty neat

#

apparently this works on apple IIe and IIc

gloomy bolt
#

Huh.

thick pendant
#

I have never gotten anywhere in that game without using a trainer...

#

But Shadow of the Beast 3 was actually a pretty fun game...

#

I really can't recall if Beast II was any good...

#

I kind of think Shadow of the Beast was made made to compete against Altered Beast, which was also a visually compelling game with kinda sucky gameplay.

copper slate
#

That all makes a lot more sense. I get why it’s well regarded now. Must’ve been really cool at the time.

#

Thank you!

thick pendant
#

It made good screenshots for the Amiga magazines and box art... Sword of Sodan is kinda the same thing. not terribly playable.

undone anvil
gloomy bolt
#

Yeah, it was pretty much plug and play.

undone anvil
#

Wow.. I should try it

#

I wonder if there's any functional value to this, like if you can boot games from this interface, or if there are any productivity tools

woven lava
#

It used to be called Mouse Desk in 1985

#

then Apple licensed it

woven lava
undone anvil
woven lava
#

it has a cool story... was reverse engineered and rewritten from 2017 onwards

undone anvil
#

that is really neat. I wonder if it can access the MiSTer file system and launch from it that way

copper slate
tall grotto
#

I even use it with my MT32-pi

copper slate
waxen brook
# copper slate Has anyone tried out Geograph Seal on the Sharp X68000 core? If so does it run w...

I played through the whole thing on MiSTer last year, video here:
https://youtu.be/QKTfatk73Xk

YouTube
MiSTer Walrus FPGA
MiSTer FPGA - Geograph Seal (ジオグラフ シール) [1cc/PB: 1,009,100] / Sharp...

My first video using the current-release X68000 core, and boy is this a special game! An important piece of 3D gaming's history and the predecessor to early experiments in 3D navigation on the PlayStation with the original Spring Man demo which eventually led to Jumping Flash! This was made by Exact- the same developers of Etoile Princesse in ...

▶ Play video
#

Really enjoyed that one. Great early-3D effort and is the genesis of early 3D experiments on the PlayStation with the "Spring Man" hardware demo, which later became Jumping Flash.

#

Settings recommendations are in the description. Including an overview of the controls. Quite impressive what they were able to pull off with only two buttons- very surprising amount of depth.

waxen brook
#

Default soundtrack is quite good, would love to hear the SC-55 version. Is this one of the games that requires holding a special key while booting or something?

tall grotto
#

I definitely used sc-55. Can't remember which.

copper slate
tall grotto
#

Definitely a useful spreadsheet

waxen brook
#

definitely, i refer to that for non-obvious stuff like midi access. wonder if i just overlooked that in geograph seal's options..

tall grotto
#

Yeah it's in there 😛

#

I did end up paying for that newer successor to the soundfont used by epic games too. What was it... Ugh. Can't remember.

#

Been a while since I touched the mt-32 stuff tbh

waxen brook
tall grotto
#

I'll look it up when I get home

vestal ginkgo
waxen brook
#

The music is bangin! Looking forward to trying with the MIDI soundtrack soon..

tall grotto
#

But I think I used sc-55 with geograph seal. I'll be in my cave shortly

cosmic scaffold
#

I’ve never gotten music when I switch from “internal” to “midi board” in the config menu. I’m interested to know how you got it to work.

tall grotto
#

You need to set up synth settings in core menu or use an mt32-pi for it. @cosmic scaffold

#

It's in the menu to the right when you load a core

#

You also may have to run the soundfont install script.

cosmic scaffold
#

I’ve got an mt32-pi and set it to FluidSynth instead of Munt to emulate the SC-55. I’ve got a small collection of soundfonts on the pi’s SD, but I’m not familiar with a soundfont install script. Is that for emulating SC-55 without an mt32-pi using the core’s UART config?

#

For what it’s worth, it works fine with Castlevania’s SC-55 mode.

thick pendant
tall grotto
#

I thought it installed required files.

thick pendant
#

if its this script, it simply would snag a SC-55 SoundFont from google drive and grab MT-32/CM-32L ROMS from somewhere...

#

provided the links are still good, you could potentially use both with mt-32pi, but only after you upload them to the device.

#

so, yes, that (at least at one point) would make the HPS MUNT/FSYNTH work, but unless you put the files on the mp32-pi, its not going to help you...

tall grotto
#

I see

cosmic scaffold
#

I was just under the impression that SC-55 did not work with Geograph Seal on the current version of the x68000 core. Another example of a bugged game is Etoile Princesse; trying to use MIDI causes the game to freeze.

thick pendant
#

Kitrinx "AudioFabric" SoundFont is probably preferable to the one that script downloads for the mt32-pi

copper slate
thick pendant
#

I don't prefer any one soundfont to my actual SC88pro or SC55Mk2, but MUNT/mt32-pi are better than my Rev0 MT-32 at this point.

stiff steeple
#

i'm hoping that sc55 emulator the guy is working on ends up being a good option

#

soundfonts are hard to represent the sc-55 in

thick pendant
#

I just wish for something that is on par with Sound canvas VA was created or VA could be even decompiled and recompiled like the Casio SW-10 thing...

stiff steeple
#

they never made a proper sc-55 version of va

#

only 88 afaik

sudden ice
#

The X68000 has issues with MIDI currently (I'm using mt32-pi). While in some games it works for example Castlevania. It doesn't work on Die Bahnwelt. Some instruments are making sounds but others don't

sudden ice
#

Is the mt32 pi code same across the cores?

stiff steeple
#

x68000 core is missing some IRQ's that it's midi controller is supposed to implement

#

I dont think puu uses it and it's all in vhdl

#

so it breaks easily

tall grotto
#

Yeah I do recall having issues with Geograph Seal being finicky with it

#

I could have sworn I had it working one time though

tall grotto
#

Looks like I was using SC-55 v1.2b by trevor0402

tall grotto
#

yeah seems it doesn't work. Shame

worthy zealot
#

Anyone tried Wasteland on the PCXT core with Tandy graphics? Sounds like its a problem finding the right version of Wasteland or figuring out how to run it with Tandy graphics.

worthy zealot
#

Ahh, seems its an option you get when installing the game

tall grotto
#

Anybody have problems getting Jazz Jackrabbit to load with Gravis Ultrasound in the Top 300 pack?

#

It just hangs on start. The default audio version (Soundblaster) loads fine. The CD-Rom version loads but its script is broken preventing the choices from working (so it also defaults to normal audio)

vestal ginkgo
#

No GUS in the AO486

#

that option is just left over from the conversion from exodos

#

I left GUS in there as I thought years ago that it could possibly happen but that was pretty far fetched, same for CD-audio

tall grotto
#

So it doesn't use midi?

#

I didn't realize that wasn't going to work 😦

vestal ginkgo
#

so the option is there just to annoy you. 😉

tall grotto
#

damn. lol.

#

Would've been nice to use a soundfont from my mt32-pi. oh well

vestal ginkgo
#

yeah, for that game only soundblaster

#

I dont think jazz has any other sound options

#

let me look

tall grotto
#

I paid for the VoiceCrystal soundfont for nothing then 😂

#

So then, DOOM doesn't seem to load music with the Sound Canvas option? Is there a way to get MT32-pi working with DOOM 1993?

vestal ginkgo
#

GUS, Pro Audio Spectum, Sound Blaster, Sound Blaster 15, Sound Blaster Clone, and Sound Blaster Pro are the only Jazz Jackrabbit sound options.

vestal ginkgo
tall grotto
#

It doesn't seem to load music when I do

#

unless maybe I have something set up wrong

#

Also I updated the top300 pack today and the entire screen view changed. The color's now blue instead of purple and the preview graphics on the top right are gone.

FYI the Jazz Jackrabbit CD-rom script boots with a Pause. seems to break before the option selection

vestal ginkgo
#

are you using Fast Doom or Original?

tall grotto
#

Fast Doom

vestal ginkgo
#

the CD rom verison of Jazz only has the pause in there only because of the cd-auto mount script. It's something I did so we could see that it mounted the CD correctly for those games that mount CDs. So the pause is there just so if something didn't go right, you have a chance to go mount a cd yourself using the mister menu

tall grotto
#

ah

#

@vestal ginkgo I don't remember it looking like this

#

I thought it had a more rainbowy look with custom MiSTer logo and stuff

#

It was black with color accents and graphics in the top right and descriptions at the bottom right

vestal ginkgo
#

Either that was the shareware pack or you had run the pre-release update script

#

That puts the other interface

tall grotto
#

AO486_Update_Top300_Pack.sh isn't the latest?

vestal ginkgo
#

You can flip flop with the update script

#

There is a pre release that I didn’t ever move to release

#

Sec

tall grotto
#

Ah it's in the releases page right?

#

wait that doesn't have a script though

vestal ginkgo
#

Oh yeah

#

It’s in _mister

tall grotto
#

does this update to 2.0.2?

vestal ginkgo
#

That yes

#

I’ll go get my my-32pi setup after work to test doom

tall grotto
#

honestly I forgot I had the prerelease lol

vestal ginkgo
#

You can always run the regular one and it will put it back

#

I got back and forth when people have issues

tall grotto
#

doing that now 😛

#

Well it's working now

#

Something must've been busted. maybe I had an old pre-release while you were still working on it

#

Also I updated the MT32-pi software and midilink on the MiSTer (which was outdated)

vestal ginkgo
tall grotto
#

does something weird sometimes when changing soundfonts though

#

it'll change the type of instrument used lol

#

all of the sudden I hear it rocking on piano xD

vestal ginkgo
#

yeah thats normal

waxen brook
woven lava
thick pendant
#

or something else

undone anvil
#

Fixes for Duke Nuke? 😄

formal whale
vestal ginkgo
#

Sorry I missed it. The answer is no. It’s a long answer if you want it I can explain

formal whale
vestal ginkgo
#

The folder names are going to be different for the games as they were dynamically generated back then (stupid design) so your folders won’t match the original folder names in the top 300, the converter now uses a static database for creating folder names so they will always be the same across “packs”

#

Are you good with Dos?

formal whale
#

Well, it's been about 30 years... but I remember some things... 😅

vestal ginkgo
# formal whale Hehe, ok. Well, I fixed those particular error messages, but I'm also guessing t...

Correct, you cannot. You would need to just replace a few things and manually do what I did in that pre release pack to your own image. Grab the mymenu folder, set it as your launcher in your autoexec.bat. Set its base folder to where your games are or do what I did and create a new folder that has all the long file name folders with batch scripts that reference the real game folder. If that makes sense. Once you get mymenu as the launcher you can just put your new games in e:\games and they will show up in the launcher

#

If you look at the commits for the pre-release on GitHub you can see my changes.

#

Eventually I need to go back to the converter and add all this crap

#

Life gets in the way of fun

formal whale
vestal ginkgo
#

If you use samba, just do it over the network and double click the vhd, it will mount in windows

#

Just don’t do it with the core loaded

#

Backup your vhd first 🙂

formal whale
#

Ahh, I tried to search for Samba info but I got some confusing results. Thanks, I'll look again!

vestal ginkgo
#

Then you need the e\mymenu and scrsaver folders in your vhd

#

Then just run mymenu.exe E:\games\mymenu

#

Sounds complicated but it’s not

tall grotto
formal whale
#

But yeah, got some life things to deal with first that got in the way too (fairly newly renovated bathroom leak, yay), but I'll get to it. 👍

formal whale
tall grotto
#

If you use Windows support is built-in 😛

#

you can type that in a browser or even File Explorer

vestal ginkgo
formal whale
tall grotto
#

I'm glad I caught one that happened by a repair guy when it did. He tried to slip it under the proverbial rug, then tried to do work under the table to fix it without reporting it to the company.... I reported his ass to the rental company

#

He caused a pipe to disconnect under the floor for the HVAC drain

#

then poured water down it to test it as it was clogged

#

He thought it was a great idea to shake it up and down to drain it faster

#

water finally drained and he was like "job's done"

#

but we saw water starting to build in a puddle in the ceiling underneath the HVAC

formal whale
#

Yeah... we found a plastic bag stuffed inside a hole in the wall around the pipe that broke... as if the plumper who installed it tried to cover something up from day one... (around five years now since we redid the kitchen and bathroom, and I happen to know that this person doesn't work at that company anymore).

vestal ginkgo
tall grotto
vestal ginkgo
#

ouch

#

"this will be fine"

formal whale
#

yeah, the inspector we hired just sat and stared at the hole in the wall for a long time just muttering "I've never seen anything like this" over and over again. 😅

formal whale
vestal ginkgo
formal whale
hexed ledge
#

i've downloaded the shareware and mymenu vhd

#

how can i add and remove games here?

vestal ginkgo
#

Just put the games in the C:\GAMES directory and they will show up

#

if you create an AUTORUN.BAT and put it in that game directory it will auto launch whatever game you add (the BAT references the game .exe needed to run, look at any existing game for reference to this file and what to put in it) and README.ANS as either ANSI art or a text file describing the game and that will show up on the right side in mymenu when you hover over the game you added. Thats it.

#

remove games, just delete the folder from the C:\GAMES directory and they will go away

#

MyMenu reads the actual directory structure to display it to you. What you see is what you get.

hexed ledge
#

when you say puting games in c: you mean within DOS

#

?

void belfry
#

most games have their own installer, so just mount that iso and install it the old way under DOS.

20230105_192117-screen.png
#

and if you're not much used with DOS, use a file manager (Volkov commander, Norton Commander, Dos Navigator) to navigate through files

#

as well as using misterfs shared folder

vestal ginkgo
hexed ledge
#

this hdv already has installed the misterfs util?

vestal ginkgo
#

for the shareware pack misterfs is not set to autorun. but you could just edit the autoexec.bat and add it. it is included in the pack on disk though and already in the PATH so it should just run. its in C:\TOOLS

hexed ledge
#

do you mean there is any software in windows that allows you to admin this vhd?

vestal ginkgo
#

windows will, just double click the .VHD and it will mount it as a drive. you need to make sure you dont do that over the network if you are actually in the core, and make sure to right click and unmount when you are done

#

this VHD is just a FAT32 VHD, nothing special about it

hexed ledge
#

and i can just drop dosbox games folders?

vestal ginkgo
#

you can try that, yes

hexed ledge
#

that would make everything easier

vestal ginkgo
#

but there could be difference in how that game is setup with audio, etc from how it is setup in the pack

#

example, soundblaster audio in the shareware pack is setup like this: SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
your existing pre-configured game could be setup to use IRQ7 so it wont have sound until you run the game setup and change it. just an example

hexed ledge
#

ok, maybe it has to be configured in the setup.exe

vestal ginkgo
#

right, exactly

#

have fun

hexed ledge
#

but the folder structure will be ok

#

i was wondering if it had different format

vestal ginkgo
#

yup, just make sure it goes into its own folder inside of C:\GAMES\

hexed ledge
#

thanks a lot

vestal ginkgo
#

neh, should be fine.

hexed ledge
#

yep

hexed ledge
#

it works

#

amazing

vestal ginkgo
#

awesome. don't forget to create yourself a README.ANS and put it in the game folder. It can just be a description of the game, controls, whatever in text format. That will show in the preview window on the right in MyMenu if you put the file there

#

like just go copy and paste the description from the game from mobygames.com

hexed ledge
#

also the autorun

waxen brook
woven lava
#

great list! I liked that they single out Amiga original releases

#

I never understood the Xenon2 hype...

formal whale
woven lava
#

I suppose it should be seen a music single with a bonus game attached to it 😅

thick pendant
#

Amiga has "Blast Processing"

woven lava
#

they blew all their budget on that one sampled MOD track

waxen nymph
#

I am going to try to update sys on some of the computer cores tomorrow (coco, trs 80, etc ) I would love some testing help. I think I need to add options to shrink or remove my fancy tape status dialog too.

woven lava
#

I can help for apple2, but I'm not familiar with coco and trs80; not sure if me testing those would be useful

opal hare
#

hey guys... is the ao486 top300 v0.7.8 the latest update?

chilly rain
#

Yes

#

I think so, it's the latest release on github

#

However the GitHub repo has been updated since then considerably so you should run the top 300 update script from Flynnsbit's github repo

opal hare
#

ahh, I see... v0.7.8 is from april 15th, 2021

chilly rain
#

Yeah

#

@vestal ginkgo would know for sure

opal hare
#

ahh, I should have looked better... I also see v2.0.2 pre-release

#

it's still a bit old (jun 18th, 2022)

#

oh, are there any favorite packs for the PCXT core? i saw some discussion a while ago about it

vestal ginkgo
#

two versions out there, one is 7.8 which has the older TDL interface (blue and white) and the pre-release has the new mymenu but I broke a couple of games launching with that one so never moved it to "production release"

#

but you can run that update if you want it

#

PCXT pack is still in progress, I'm just working through each game, making sure they work and have audio options like Adlib/Tandy Sound/Tandy Graphics, etc

opal hare
#

Awesome... do you have a git repo setup yet I can follow?

#

Thanks for the awesome work!!

vestal ginkgo
#

its set to private but I'll move it soon. That pack will start out being "archived" as it has ms-dos as a base. so "fixes" and changes to scripts will come from github, but I should be much better at having a good base vhd out of the gate as compared to the Top 300.

#

famous last words...

opal hare
#

looking forward to it... thanks again

undone anvil
vestal ginkgo
#

no, everything is Tandy Graphics so just games that would have worked with VGA/EGA

#

I guess.... Commander Keen, Prince of Persia, come to mind as overlaps. But mostly new

#

let me find the list I am working through

undone anvil
#

I have a feeling that all the games on the eXoDOS archive which targetted PCXT would probably work on the core.

vestal ginkgo
#

the difference on this is people can easily add and remove these games, most don't even have installs and just need to be copied in

#

agreed.

undone anvil
#

So this is exciting, because that could be A LOT of games

#

Well, maybe not quite as exciting for the one who has to go down the list, but I really really REALLY appreciate that you're doing it

vestal ginkgo
#

though my current focus is Tandy only. CGA is a MUCH larger list

undone anvil
#

ah ok, that makes sense

vestal ginkgo
#

for CGA you could just remove some of the memory crap from this image and it would just work.

undone anvil
#

maybe Tandy and CGA could be separate packs 🤔

vestal ginkgo
#

Tandy is the hard part, CGA mostly just works out of the box

undone anvil
#

I'm curious how long that list is

vestal ginkgo
#

combo of those two lists, and then vogons and vcf threads where people have hacked in Tandy Graphics, like Commander Keen

#

CGA is something crazy like 2000+ games

vestal ginkgo
undone anvil
#

though I have a feeling a lot of them are garbage 😅

vestal ginkgo
#

there are a bunch that are... whats the term, booters.

#

where you can just treat the floppy like a rom. there is an archive pack that has all the "booters" in it. all CGA

#

yes they are... pretty bad unless you have nostalgic memories

undone anvil
#

oh that's convenient

#

at least the concept

#

Wow what a list!

#

Hmm.. I thought Ultima IV and V have Tandy versions too

vestal ginkgo
#

I'm not positive. that's the list I dwindled down to. I am at like 80 games working currently. We have all the OS and MyMenu kinks worked out so it is just testing games now.

#

Still some games can lock up the core after exiting which is annoying. I don't think it's a core issue either as it does it in 86Box as well. Little things like that make the last 10% difficult and cause frustration for people if I share early.

undone anvil
#

Hmm.. is it possible that these games expect a soft reboot after you exit out?

#

I think I remember some games, especially if you boot into it, you have to reset after you remove the disk, even if you exit the game. it'll be stuck on a black screen

undone anvil
#

@vestal ginkgo hey just curious, do you still livestream the testing and fixing etc? I used to enjoy watching that

vestal ginkgo
#

I dont but I could start with the PCXT stuff. you will see me breaking lots of stuff 😄

undone anvil
#

haha I'm down! 😂

#

plus we get a look at what will be in the pack

#

even if we can see the list, its nice to see it in action

vestal ginkgo
#

alright, I'll get that setup

blazing wraith
#

I been seeing videos of people playing on the acorn atom core with some sort game menu like the ones on Amiga and msx. But can't find anything on how to get it setup. Anyone have any ideas? It's called the Atom software archive and I found the files for but nothing on how to set it up.

waxen nymph
#

after it boots.