Sega Saturn

[graceful horizon]

and guardian dragon is fucking cool as fuck

[icy escarp]

It looks like I celebrated too early the glitch is back

[haughty dove]

I’ve beaten that prologue stage at least 10 times across different aborted playthroughs on different setups.

[graceful horizon]

de10 right?

the prologue stage takes up like 7 minutes too

[celest lake]

Turn it off, let it sit for 10 minutes, turn it back on

[icy escarp]

D10 correct

[graceful horizon]

I've never encountered that on my mister pi, weird

[celest lake]

I wonder if this is heat related

[graceful horizon]

does the mister even have a temp indicator?

because that artifacting looks like a when a GPU dies on me on a desktop

[icy escarp]

I have a fan and heat sink

[graceful horizon]

that doesn't tell us much dude

[icy escarp]

Sorry new to this, not sure what is important or not.

I think it might be my power supply

[graceful horizon]

well yeah, having proper cooling is good

[icy escarp]

It is my power supply

The one that I have on it is 5 V 2 A

I think it needs 5 V 5 A

[wide glacier]

i don't think 5A is necessary for a mister, but iirc the retrocastle boards are designed with 5V 3A, non-PD supplies in mind

[icy escarp]

I have a 5v 3a gonna try it

lol nope

Gonna go back to my old IO board

[wide glacier]

this is a dual RAM setup from retrocastle, right? i recall a while back people were having trouble getting the dual RAM jaguar cores working on the same configuration

[icy escarp]

My Saturn core is 251003

it does the same thing with only one memory stick too, but I will go back to my old board and see if I can get it to work because it seems it was running just fine with one stick

[wide glacier]

weird

[icy escarp]

it just sucks because I really like the convenience of a power button

[wide glacier]

yeah, the retrocastle boards are really nice

[celest lake]

Io board wouldn’t make a difference. Ram might. Swap the ram boards

[mortal mist]

I can't reproduce it.

[celest lake]

I think this may be something specific to the mister. Something with the ram, maybe?

[ripe valley]

I can't either.

[tawny forge]

Geez, I doubt his memtest gets over 70Mhz lol

[wise brook]

we must all make sacrifices to to Sam Altman to get his ram speed back

[glossy steppe]

I'll get the chickens and daggers

[icy escarp]

Just got done with work, I will swap the boards and also download the dual ram version of the core.

Sometimes its perfect, sometimes it has those pixel artifacts its wierd.

[mortal mist]

maybe your sdram is faulty ?

[icy escarp]

So I have the one that I originally bought which appears to have two memory on it and one that has just one I will swap them out

The cores have xxx.rbf extenstion but none of the files on the github have that, is there one I should use? Sorry totally new to this.

[mortal mist]

here is the latest unstable #unstable-nightlies message

[icy escarp]

Does this mean it doesn’t see my ram now because none of the cores will load content now.

I’m sorry guys 😥

[celest lake]

yeah, it means you don't have SD ram installed

and don't be sorry - I'm sorry you're having trouble

[icy escarp]

So the ram is there does that mean there’s dip switches that need to be done on the D 10?

[celest lake]

one ram or both?

[icy escarp]

I guess I need to put both in again. If I put the ram in the first slot it says no ram

[celest lake]

if the HDMI port is facing up, the ram goes on the right side of the board

make sure not to put it in backwards - there houls be a label that says "this side facing out" or something similar

[icy escarp]

So because I switched from a single module to a dual, I think I had the ram in the wrong spot and now the game doesn’t have any glitches at all

Before, when it would play a FMV, it would have glitches on the top of the video, but the game would work sometimes and sometimes it would not

Now everything is perfect

[celest lake]

Keep an eye on it

[hearty marten]

Someone said dual ram. I’m here

[green swift]

https://tenor.com/view/gopher-winnie-the-pooh-headlamp-gif-20776124

We poppin up for Dual Ram, Fam?

[pine bobcat]

Double Dedotated Wam

[winter phoenix]

A curio from an old issue of a Japanese Sega Saturn magazine led me to investigate what seems like an odd control setup if true: Does the shuttle mouse work in Digital Pinball: Last Gladiators? Let's find out:

https://www.segasaturnshiro.com/2026/01/27/investigating-the-alleged-mouse-support-in-digital-pinball-last-gladiators/

[burnt matrix]

The shuttle mouse works with pinball gladiator?

[winter phoenix]

well
yes
but with a catch

[burnt matrix]

Hah, you fell for my ruse! Now I know the answer to your article!!!!!!

[winter phoenix]

do you tho 😏

you'll just have to read it to find out!!

[burnt matrix]

Noooo! You uno-reversed me!

[ripe valley]

I clearly saw the background corruption when using magic on Shining Force III on my Dual RAM system.

I need to leave for about a week starting tomorrow, so I will probably retest with the Single RAM systems & the SS1 later.

[lethal lantern]

I don't mean to derail the conversation but I'm wondering about the current state of Saturn core is in term of single SDRAM vs Dual SDRAM? I'm new to mister and am think about getting the QMTECH mister with integrated SDRAM bundle and am wondering is it's single SDRAM would work well with the Saturn core does anyone have experince with it?

[hearty marten]

Single ram is fine for the vast majority of games (main exception are fighting games), especially since there’s a “fast timings” option that can mitigate some of the slowdown in some games - but dual ram is more compatible and accurate

If you’re a very big Saturn fan and/or love fighting games and/or don’t want to use an analogue IO board and/or don’t mind paying a bit extra for dual ram, then go for that

[burnt matrix]

🤐

[sharp forum]

Never miss a chance to show off your dual ram

[lethal lantern]

Okay thanks I'll look into getting another SDRAM module for when I get mine

[jagged spire]

my dual ram setup is real hardware

tried the first level of nights the other day on single ram, yeah there's slowdown during level transitions but i saw none during actual gameplay

last bronx and vf2 are pretty choppy even with fast timings enabled but i'd rather play their original model 2 versions on an emulator

[hearty marten]

I thought I was pretty fair?

[pearl harbor]

I thought you accurate and/or inaccurate. ||You kept bringing up fighting games without clarifying that it's only some of the 3D fighting games that have issues! There are a ton of 2D fighting games as well on Saturn!||

[hearty marten]

Sorry, 3D fighting games. And Nights, and radiant silvergun

[pearl harbor]

Too late. Damage is done. Drop your head in shame.

[placid geode]

Is it possible at this time to set up two USB flight sticks as a twin stick setup in the Saturn core? I was thinking about buying two of these. Thanks
https://www.amazon.com/THEQUICKSHOT-II-PC/dp/B0G6J4D1VS/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=2MZ2V0X2EMC5A&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.xvFvDGKoZDVvYsYFr9-8jA.N8gLSrIlXq3apjR0PIn6LiSVlY77eoUS4nS1DCbEH0s&dib_tag=se&keywords=1uickshot+II&qid=1769742860&sprefix=1uickshot+ii%2Caps%2C116&sr=8-1

[pearl harbor]

I doubt it since they would be recognized as two different controllers plugged in.

[pine bobcat]

You can do this by using "player_1_controller" in MiSTer.ini to assign multiple devices to a single player. You could even restrict this to the Saturn core specifically.

[placid geode]

Thank you for the information

[rocky notch]

Hi everyone,

I’m having a persistent issue with the Saturn SNAC adapter on my MiSTer. While my NES, SNES and N64 SNAC adapters work perfectly, the Saturn one is giving me erratic inputs.

The Problem: When using original Saturn controllers, the inputs are "scrambled" or crossed. For example, pressing the D-pad triggers action buttons, and some directions aren't recognized at all.

My Setup & Troubleshooting done:

Hardware: MiSTer FPGA (QMTECH) with IO Board v2.1

Adapter: Saturn SNAC adapter (checked for continuity 1:1 against community schematics, pins seem correct).

Controller: Original SEGA Saturn pads (JP and US models).

Core Settings: * Serial: SNAC enabled in the Menu.

Tried resetting Saturn.cfg (deleted the config file to start fresh).

Latest Main and Saturn Core versions (updated via Update All script).

Cross-Testing: * NES, N64 and SNES SNAC work fine (same IO Board port).

The issue persists even after verifying the schematic's continuity from the Saturn port to the USB 3.0 pins.

Observations: I suspect it might be a signal integrity/timing issue or related to the Level Shifters on this specific Chinese adapter, as the Saturn core seems much more sensitive to timing than NES/SNES/N64.

Has anyone encountered this mapping/crosstalk issue before? Is there a specific menu.yml setting or a particular hardware revision of the adapter known to cause this?

Thanks in advance for the help!

[inner token]

which Saturn SNAC adapter? is it the one that uses the blissbox cable?

[finite hound]

i have single ram and real saturn, and i don't notice any difference in speed in radiant silvergun. slowdown when a lot is happening is the same

[pearl harbor]

I've definitely never encountered that when using SNAC on Saturn (via the MiSTeraddons adapter). I suspect it's an issue with the adapter itself.

[glossy steppe]

How did it control? A bigger issue for me with NiGHTS is that I keep floating upwards every time I do something that makes me stop such as destroying an Ideya container

[hearty marten]

I’ve heard conflicting things. Dual SDRAM at least eliminates the guesswork or concern about things being different

[warped saddle]

or at least shifts them more towards inperceptible

[hearty marten]

Yep. As close as srg320 believes we’re gonna get on the DE10 anyway

[warped saddle]

at the end of the day you're still trying to stuff N independent memory domains into Y things on the mister, just with dual ram you get Y+1. I'm not sure there's really any side-by-side comparisons of long term runs to see if that's enough to keep within X frames.

stuff like that is hard with cdrom systems anyways, too much variation

[glossy steppe]

What about those arcade boards that loaded an entire CD into ram?

... also there's the ST-V

[jagged spire]

Perfectly fine, but I'm cheating since I'm using SNAC with a 3d controller

(which I imported from the US in 2002 for 20$ 🥲 )

[jagged spire]

Somebody reported additional slowdowns later in later levels. I'm not good enough to reach them unfortunately

[finite hound]

My experience is that there was none

Well, of course there is., but just as bad/good as on the physical Saturn

[jagged spire]

This was an ancient report by the way

Core was way less mature (acerbic?)

[finite hound]

I's also a matter of expectance. I have seen people cussing at DDP because it lags. Which it does indeed - on the original board

[jagged spire]

Third party Saturn ports suck, I can only use the 3D controller when the plug is tilted in a very specific way, so it could be a port issue as others said

[jagged spire]

Single ram lag is real, but it's true that it's a bit different than real hardware slowdown

It's like the whole system hangs for half a second, while real hardware slows down

[finite hound]

I never experienced that.

sounds more like a storage issue

[jagged spire]

Very evident in Last Bronx whenever 2d effects appear

(like every time you land a hit)

Fast timings mitigate the issue making it somewhat playable

[burnt matrix]

Try pulling the Saturn controller cable out slightly from the SNAC cable.

[polar mountain]

I also have to pull the cable out slightly to get it to work on mine.

[winter phoenix]

After the release of Sega Saturn homebrew FPS Vigilant Paradise, my buddy PandaMonium reached out to its sole developer, Ricardo Campione. He reveals how he got into Saturn development, what inspired the game and the five year journey of putting it together:

https://www.segasaturnshiro.com/2026/01/30/vigilant-paradise-dev-talks-about-his-solo-homebrew-journey/

[hearty marten]

Last Bronx is pretty bad even with fast timings. Better, but still a long way from performance on dual ram

That might actually be the worst one I tried with single ram

Fighters megamix is also pretty bad from what I remember

[haughty dove]

Yeah Fighters Megamix is horrible. The main reason I changed from analog board to IO Direct.

[wide glacier]

i wish there was an arcade version of fighters megamix

[haughty dove]

I wish Fighters Megamix had better AI.

They just let themselves get juggled forever by air-teching every single hit, leaving them open for another hit.

[wide glacier]

yeah, it's a very easy game, especially compared to virtua fighter

[next bronze]

I'm glad I decided to use the Mister Pi for dual rams

Definitely noticed slowdown in the single ram core for Dead or Alive. Runs much better in the dual ram core.

[burnt matrix]

How was it with fast timings on the single ram core

[dry hinge]

I considered doing this exact same thing. Those quick shots have satisfying micro switches and are cheap.

[next bronze]

Honestly forgot to check

[supple vine]

Which SNAC Adapter are you using exactly? With the MiSTer Addons adapter, I had the same problem when I used a Blissbox Saturn cable. But it worked when I used the MiSTerAddons Saturn cable.

[tawny forge]

Finally someone here doing the work of comparing the core with real hardware and confirming that Radiant Silvergun runs crappy on OG! Thank you!!!🙏

[finite hound]

I wouldn't call it crappy. A lot of shmup fans would argue that it is intended behaviour, and that designers of the game took slowdowns in account. DoDonPachi prime example. Isn't this the case in the original arcade board as well?

[tawny forge]

Fair enough!

Running similar to the OG should be the goal here. Not “run much better”.

[finite hound]

DoDonPachi (technically much less advanced) has slowdowns on the arcade board. The Saturn port does not have the slowdowns. For me that felt 'off'

[tawny forge]

We need people comparing the core performance to how the original hardware runs the game and not to how they want the core to run. So thank you again!

[floral saddle]

Bosses Mika-L on stage 3-b and Dan-564 in the Saturn mode have way more slowdown than real hardware depending on the weapon you use, you can get the game to absolutely crawl, real hardware was never that slow. Search/homing can definitely trigger more slowdown in places too.

[tawny forge]

@floral saddle what game is that? I’m aware that there are some games which have real slowdowns on the core but I always had doubts about Radiant Silvergun specifically

[finite hound]

Those are bosses from Radiant Silvergun

again, I did not notice any difference

[floral saddle]

Radiant Silvergun, I owned the Saturn port for nearly 20 years so am very familiar with how things run.

[visual sundial]

I think a real test for accuracy is if the core slows down at the same places as real hardware. For example, I know very specific places where Panzer Dragoon Saga slows down and the dual SDRAM core slows down in the exact same places. This is a good thing

[tawny forge]

We need to make sure you guys are testing with the same version of main and also the core

[floral saddle]

I tested RS for the best part of a year finding and reporting various graphic bugs, from then until the latest unstable core and main slowdown performance has remained consistent in the same spots. It's pushing the OG hardware HARD, more than the vast majority of games in the library so it shouldn't be all that surprising that the DE-10 doesn't perform the same in certain instances.

[tawny forge]

Side by side comparison videos wen

[hearty marten]

Dual SDRAM users rise up!

[left chasm]

today was a good day, compiled a core for the first time. Added ATL/ATR (analog trigger left and right) to the input tester, got the main bit end to end. Need to figure out saturn, psx next 😅

a few things causing lag but I think some in this core atm (without my changes? rest is just too many debug logs)

[burnt matrix]

IMPRISON THE HERETIC!!!!!

[left chasm]

replaces controller by gun, keeps pressing triggers

[lethal lantern]

Good to know that I need dual ram for Fighters Megamix as it is one of the games I intend to play on my mister

[warped saddle]

if it turns out Sorg is open to merging all that trigger stuff, I think if we're bumping the controller map file version we should at least try to turn it more into a 'virtual psx' controller instead of snes. as of right now there's no real way to do true 'plug and play' mappings for the psx core. and maybe saturn too

and I guess n64 but that'll be a fun riot when the 'wrong' defaults get picked for psx->n64 lol

[left chasm]

I thought about the snes to psx virtual controller but on another PR. Idk if there are more consumers/producers of the mapping file? If not, shouldn’t be an issue to upgrade it again later to simplify development?

Still need to find how to upgrade versions, i assume there’s an example in the git history for v2–>v3 that I can adapt

I’ve got it 0 at rest and positive on the axis up to 254, but guessing 255 is standard, never played with this stuff

[tawny forge]

@warped saddle will figure something out. Dew it with the PR!

https://tenor.com/view/dew-it-galactic-republic-palpatine-gif-21847982

[hearty marten]

You’re a wizard!

[warped saddle]

I don't think there's much to upgrading, you just fallback to the old version on load, add a converter, always write the new one. probably a transition period where you leave the old one hanging around, esp during 'unstable'

I don't mean to imply doing all this in one PR, but maybe before 'stable' goes out with the ver change

I don't think much consumes, except maybe Taki's frontend which isn't even out

[wise brook]

https://tenor.com/view/knight-i-think-of-you-gif-12930177

my hero!

[idle gorge]

is princess crown playable on the saturn core? Just heard about it

[warped cliff]

isnt the list of unplayable games quite short?

[wise brook]

the one MPEG required games and some hyper obscure japanese game but even then it’s just the disc2 of

[wise brook]

yeah, for a long while now. great game playable even in english, if you like absurdly lush sprite work it’s gonna be your bag

[warped cliff]

thats really impressive

[ripe valley]

And the game exists on PS1.
For Lunar, the regular version works on the core.
So, we're not losing much.

I will do some more tests on Shining Force III next weekend.

It's strange that I don't see any issue on my Single RAM systems.
But it seems to appear on the Dual version with Magic spells or Healing items.

[ancient surge]

Maybe a bad build?

[ripe valley]

Nope.

It is present on the last 3 versions.

For Fighting Vipers & The Last Bronx, I saw the slowdowns even with the Fast timings option.
We can't do anything more.

For VF2, DoA & Fighters Megamix, it could depend on the storage device used too, but I need some more tests next week about that.

[hearty marten]

We must regain dual ram supremacy in all cases

(I’m sure srg320 will figure it out)

[graceful horizon]

I wish fighters megamix was a better game

[graceful horizon]

It's playable and with one ram card too

[ripe valley]

Everything was already tried back then.

The Dual RAM build responds really great on all tests (except one but I see the same test failing on real systems too, that's something I need to understand and to eventually report another time).
Verified against several real consoles.
Even much better results with that core than with a Fenrir or a Saroo.

[ancient surge]

If using the fast timings fixes the problem, then it can't be a limitation of the RAM.

[ripe valley]

The single RAM one is working great too, but fail partially two RAM access speed tests.

The Fast timings help to reach far better results, but the tests cannot pass completely even with that option.

Some games rely on that complete synchro & speed of the memories inside the system.

[ancient surge]

I'm just saying that if Shining Force III doesn't have the bug on the single RAM build, then it shouldn't be a problem where RAM is the issue.

[ripe valley]

I will check everything anyway, just to be sure and to isolate the real issue there.

The dual RAM must remain undefeated. 😉

[ancient surge]

Also does this bug happen on real hardware? Like maybe if it can happen there, then that might narrow it down on what is going on.

A lot of these older RPGs tend to have game impacting bugs.

[ripe valley]

It never happens on real hardware but all emulators have that issue so far.

[ancient surge]

Maybe it's a disc reading bug? Like it's too fast or too slow and the game doesn't know how to handle it?

[ripe valley]

The testrom don't see anything like that.

The core even response better than the Fenrir here.

[ancient surge]

Then maybe it's an obscure instruction that isn't currently implemented in the core?

[ripe valley]

If it was an instruction, the single RAM should be affected to.

[ancient surge]

Also does this impact every version of Shining Force III? There are technically three games.

[ripe valley]

I didn't checked the two others.

Only the official English one and the fan-translation.

Right now, I'm on travel until Thursday.
I will be back next Friday for these tests and checks.

[hearty marten]

Fortunately the single ram core still works on a dual ram setup. We can just rename the single ram core to be “shining force 3”

[wise brook]

just got into the first battle in the game gonna see what happens when I fire a magic spell or healing item off

used a healing herb, background looked like a cooked negative

[idle gorge]

wait im single ram and am gonna be playing shining force 3, whats the bug again?

id go dual ram but i like analog support

[ripe valley]

The backgrounds are being distorted + black & white when using some spells.

[idle gorge]

thats it? is it temporary?

[ripe valley]

I saw it on my Dual RAM, but not on my Single ones.

[burnt matrix]

Single ram wins again!!!

[ripe valley]

That bug is present on all known emulators too.

But, I can't test much further at the moment.

I could test more during the end of next week. And if I could see the reason to that.

[idle gorge]

yeah, a huge draw for mister for me is being able to play on a CRT TV or else i would have saved for a dualram setup

[river wing]

dualRAM + CRT TV is possible via DirectVideo and works perfectly well

[haughty dove]

DualRam + CRT is so easy. Direct IO board is all you need.

[wise brook]

are those getting redesigned for the rgb+subcarrier functionality?

[drowsy hull]

That was a lot of single ram coping.

[hearty marten]

Dual ram will reign supreme once again!

[wide glacier]

direct video has always been really fickle for me. works fine on some tubes, and not at all on others

[burnt matrix]

Single ram wins again!!!

[pearl harbor]

Dual rammers in shambles.

[hearty marten]

[ripe valley]

We will rise, once again. Shiny and chrome.

[pearl harbor]

||I'm a dual rammer! ||

[celest lake]

Dual Ram too accurate for shining force 3

[hearty marten]

Shining force, more like stinky force

[pearl harbor]

Sounds like something that a dual rammer would say.

[hearty marten]

Good job I am a dual rammer

[wise brook]

are you familiar with the rgb output also doing composite?

addons, er, added that function onto the current analog output

[burnt matrix]

Thanks, MARl0. THARl0

[haughty dove]

Are you sure your inis are correct? Requires different settings for component vs composite. I have tested mine on three sets with no problems (one small, one regular, one slightly larger w/ component).

[visual grove]

Direct video loses sync on resolution changes depending on the dac, real analog output can change resolution in the middle of a scanline without issue

[haughty dove]

I’ve noticed that on gbc core by default, but there’s the sync core option which fixes that.

Does the vsynch_adjust value have an effect on analog output or only on HDMI output? I assumed it was just the latter.

[warped saddle]

only hdmi

well, 'only scaled video'

[haughty dove]

Okay. I do have that set to 1 instead of 0 because my HD sets would lose signal like crazy during certain PS1 games (wipeout XL in particular).

But I don’t use MiSTer with HDMI anymore these days.

[wide glacier]

of course. a while back i tried the exact same setup and .ini configuration on two CRTs; one of them was fine, the other was not having it

[pearl harbor]

Is this a riddle wrapped in an enigma!?

[robust agate]

Saturn has a lot of good fighting ports. Any other games other than fighting games you guys like?

[haughty dove]

Cleopatra’s Fortune, Bulk Slash, Fighting Vip- SHIT!

[thorn pagoda]

Resident Evil

[robust agate]

How does it compare to the ps1 version?

[thorn pagoda]

er, mostly worse but you get to use the saturn pad! some interestingly different enemy and player models

might be the absolute hardest version too i'm not sure

[wide glacier]

not counting ports from other systems, some games i enjoy include
-astal
-baroque (english patch)
-bulk slash
-clockwork knight
-grandia (english patch)
-guardian heroes
-keio flying squadron 2
-legend of oasis
-mega man 8
-nights into dreams
-pebble beach golf links
-policenauts (english patch)
-rayman
-sakura wars (english patch)
-saturn bomberman
-shinobi X
-shinrei jusatsushi taromaru (english patch)
-silhouette mirage (english patch)
-sonic 3D blast
-steamgear mash
-super tempo
-thunder force V
-vatlva
-waku waku puyo puyo dungeon (english patch)
i like the sega saturn a lot, if you couldn't tell 🙂

[left chasm]

Maybe also Sega Rally, World Series Baseball, Burning Rangers, Die Hard Arcade?

[wide glacier]

sega rally and die hard are arcade ports, but yes, definitely those. burning rangers too

haven't played world series baseball, looks fun though

[burnt matrix]

Bug!

also Bug Too!

also Virtual Hydlide

[wide glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/eugh-cat-meme-cat-short-gif-2615133611839375135

[placid geode]

Gungriffon II is a very good Sega Saturn exclusive highly recommend for any mech fan

[pine bobcat]

You can enable fixed Hblank and fixed Vblank to resolve that, if you ever try with HDMI again

[winter phoenix]

Bulk Slash
Cotton 2
Stellar Assault SS
Sakura Wars
Willy Wombat

[rich violet]

Shienryu

[stiff latch]

Everyone loves psychic killer taromaru, it even got an english patch

a lot of what makes the saturn cool is the stuff you dont expect to find, especially in the jp library. lot of great stuff to play there

try rush deppy is a fun one

lot of treasure developed games - silhouette mirage, guardian heroes, radiant silvergun

[rotund steeple]

Elevator Action Returns is great

[muted cradle]

I like the Saturn Road Rash

[visual sundial]

Guardian Heroes remains great even with the insane slowdown

Panzer Dragoon Saga fully deserves all the hype and fuss

[polar mountain]

Virtua Cop 2 if you want to pew pew pew

Its an obvious one but in the same vein as Sega Rally I find the Saturn versions to be better than the arcade.

Much better

100 times better!!!

https://tenor.com/view/fire-gif-10341555270454130792

[neon wind]

Best console. I'm sure real fans will understand my profile pic too.

[left chasm]

100%, we find Virtua Cop 2 fun even w/ a controller for local co-op

[sturdy dagger]

I might have found a bug

But I’m unsure

As I have been messing around with my v scale mode in mister ini setting

[wise brook]

fresh spare sd card is a good idea if you want to eliminate false positives

[sturdy dagger]

When I try to load my save game with Biohazard 1 (That I completed on the dual ram Saturn core last year)

I don’t get any option to see any of my saved games

Which I know is there

I’m going to quickly try my pal version

[wise brook]

The save won’t flag in the core if the file name has changed or folder structure is different

[sturdy dagger]

Il take a photo one moment

I can’t even see any text, just the typewriter background

I’ve not done anything to file names or folders. I’m just going to make a save on the pal version

Huh

So it’s working now

But for context

All that text, and the images of the console and cartridge wasn’t there

Just the type writer

Huh

Strange

[mortal mist]

I completed BioHazard some time ago , no issues with saves for me

[sturdy dagger]

Likewise, but I just found it odd that the actual text of the image above aswell as the icons didn’t show

I’m gutted I didn’t get a photo now

As it looked pretty cool, just the image of the type writer

I can’t seem to reproduce it. Sorry about that all

[calm ruin]

Sonic R is crashing evertime you reset the race

[mortal mist]

Was fixed with unstable mister main

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/pull/1078

[calm ruin]

ah

thank you

[burnt matrix]

Sakura Wars isn’t good, get out of here

[burnt matrix]

It’s amazing!

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-gif-17172043193563962893

[visual grove]

The sun rises and the sun sets and Robby does this bit. Round and round it goes ever on this course

[stiff latch]

i feel like a lot of people were about to jump you just now lol

[pearl harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[mortal steppe]

The PAL versions works great with original timing, If this could be a useful info.

[glossy steppe]

If you like SHMUPS, I also recommend The Game Paradise, also called Game Tengoku

Oddly, the sequel was on PSX

... also even stranger it recently got an official English translation and re-release on modern systems and PC... but not the sequel

[hearty marten]

Everybody please welcome @sharp forum who joins us as a new member of the dual sdram family. I trust that you’ll all greet them with a warm welcome

[sharp forum]

Just in time for DQ7 Reimagined to come out to keep me from playing Mister

[winter phoenix]

Yep, that's one of my favorite shmups on the Saturn. I do own it on Steam, too

[winter phoenix]

The developers did say that they refined the controls for the Saturn port and they consider it to be better than the arcade original, too. It also has textures, unlike the arcade. (Edit: better textures, multicolor textures)

watch PandaMonium's documentary about Sega Rally, he's got a ton of great info in there

[wise brook]

you mean to say better textures right

[winter phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/padme-gif-24474700

[winter phoenix]

OK so I misspoke 😆 Sorry. The Model 2 arcade board can do textures. The thing is that it can only do monochrome textures. If you extract the texture data from the ROM, each texture will be black/gray. They get colors applied to them by the polygons they're on. So each texture could only be one color.

Meanwhile, the Saturn can use a bunch of colors for each texture, so its version of Sega Rally has multicolor textures that weren't possible on the arcade version.

This is also why the Saturn version of Virtua Cop has better textures than the arcade original.

[polar mountain]

You better believe I've watched that documentay brosef!

But do I remember any of the details?

The answer..

No

[winter phoenix]

(I have a bad memory, I remembered something about the textures, so I asked Panda and he corrected me, haha)

[polar mountain]

I do remember being in a state of constant euphoria the whole time though

[winter phoenix]

that's a common effect when watching a PandaMonium video, yes

[visual sundial]

Yeah it’s why the later PS2 port plays worse

[burnt matrix]

I just can’t play the launch Daytona USA. People say it’s got better handling but I dunno.

[pearl harbor]

It does have better handling compared to the later version on Saturn. Also more accurate art style and way better music.

The problem is that it runs awful. 20fps with pop-in very close to the camera.

[burnt matrix]

Yeah, I can’t abide by that.

Less content too

[visual grove]

It looks like shit

[wise brook]

that’s a crazy way to describe its low poly aesthetics

40 racers on the track and the sense of speed are well worth a bit of pop-in

impressive they could optimize it so soon after but it’s a different game from the handling changes

[wide glacier]

i'm the last person to ditch a game for it's visuals but i just can't play saturn daytona. a racing game should not be that choppy and have that much pop-in

shame there isn't a version with the performance and fidelity of CCE but the graphics and handling of the original

[wise brook]

shmups shouldn’t run at 10fps
-# but you wouldn’t know that from the nintendo fans glazing Star Fox

[wide glacier]

lol

star fox can be tough to go back to, yeah

[wise brook]

just give AM2 some extra time to revisit it after the SGL was completed and we’d have gold

[wide glacier]

true. it's a shame the game didn't get a bit more time in the oven

[burnt matrix]

It’s different, one is racing and one is flying!!!!!

[wise brook]

ok jon tron

[burnt matrix]

You can get away with lower frames up in the air because you’re not as close to the ground to notice.

But driving, man you’re right there. The low frames you can see on the immediate scenery.

Total deal breaker!!!!

[wise brook]

https://tenor.com/view/turnt-jontron-gif-9320151

[burnt matrix]

that was off the cuff, I couldn’t workshop it lol

[wise brook]

https://tenor.com/view/jontron-why-would-you-do-that-gif-11127841

[burnt matrix]

Honestly if I had a Saturn with that game at launch, nostalgia would overcome the low framerate for me

[wise brook]

i had mine in 2019 no nostalgia required

just play it, try get 1st place and the graphics just… stop mattering

like Perfect Dark after 30 minutes stops bothering me

[burnt matrix]

Yeah ok you’re right there, I acclimate way too quickly to low framerates

Ok I’ll commit

[wise brook]

maybe just turn the AI features on on your tv to make some fake frames

[burnt matrix]

For Sega

[burnt matrix]

omg

[wise brook]

unironically the fake frames made Tears of the Kingdom more tolerable

[burnt matrix]

Yeah that one was rough

[wise brook]

The only good thing about the new Zelda was all the fan art of my husband Sidon

https://tenor.com/view/sidon-sparkle-sparkle-on-sidon-sparkle-on-botw-gif-6991183127453903161

[burnt matrix]

lol

[pearl harbor]

For some reason Wave Race 64, which runs at the same frame rate as Saturn Daytona, doesn't feel bad at all to me when I play it. But Saturn Daytona's frame rate feels so much worse. Maybe it's just the speed of the game.

[wide glacier]

could be. maybe the lower framerate lends itself better to the feeling of being on water

[pearl harbor]

32X Virtua Racing also feels fine to me and it's also 20fps.

[wide glacier]

huh is it? that's pretty crazy, it feels great otherwise

[pearl harbor]

Honestly, it's probably just that Daytona is known for 60fps, so going from that to 20fps makes it feel so wrong.

[glossy steppe]

I used to play a DOS racing game called Stunts all the time, and it's framerate was pretty bad regardless of your CPU XD

[pearl harbor]

I played a lot of 3DO racing/driving games back in the day and those ran at like 10–15fps!

Good old Crash'n Burn

[visual sundial]

Have to remember that the PS1 launched with Ridge Racer at 30. Daytona is the better game, but in terms of ports the Saturn didn’t come out of it looking good

[glossy steppe]

It could always be worse, it could be the SNES version of Race Drivin'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bf136nqYLQ

(Here's the GAMEBOY version by the way)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFahywkFKqM

[visual grove]

As a day one Saturn owner and huge Sega arcade fan let’s say I was more than a little disappointed in that port. They made up for it with VCop, VF2 and Sega rally at least. And even VF1 I loved and played the hell out of even though it was also a pretty flawed port. Daytona was just such a massive arcade experience with too much to live up to

[wise brook]

must’ve been nice to see a video game arcade growing up, how fortunate for you

[visual grove]

Yeah Ive been along for the ride for much of video game history compared to a lot of gamers. On the negative side Im also going to die sooner 😉

[pearl harbor]

Same...

[winter phoenix]

PSA: Daytona USA Circuit Edition (the Japanese one, not Championship Circuit Edition released in NA and PAL) has the original Daytona’s music in addition to some of the newer Daytona’s music

It also has improved handling than Championship Circuit Edition (NetLink Edition does, too) but still different than the original Daytona

[wide glacier]

you can also hold different button combos when starting a race to change the time of day

sega retro says the draw distance and handling are improved as well

[winter phoenix]

The draw distance is better than the original but the same as CCE

Just read this, I tested the hell out of these games and discussed the similarities and differences: https://www.segasaturnshiro.com/2023/10/26/is-daytona-netlink-edition-really-based-on-japans-circuit-edition/

[analog totem]

nice, didn’t know that! I’ll have to check that I have all of the variants on my SSD

[tiny quartz]

In this year of 2026, is this really a bad thing?

[visual grove]

Sweet release of death

[tiny quartz]

Bury me with my candy cabs.

[burnt matrix]

Which Saturn game is your favorite and why is it Bug?

[visual sundial]

Don’t forget the !

[calm ruin]

I literally just played Bug!

[winter phoenix]

It is Bug … Bug Too, that is

[visual sundial]

It’s Bug! and Bug Too! The exclamation mark is not optional!

[ancient surge]

I will say the title out loud with a question mark, because I am a rebel without a cause.

[serene epoch]

A friend claimed Bug! is better than Gex. This requires further study.

[ancient surge]

Bug?

Bug Too?

[serene epoch]

Bug!

[ancient surge]

Bug¡

[visual sundial]

In its defence, it was a pre-Mario 64 3D platform when nobody really knew how to make them yet. It would probably be considered 2.5D these days

[visual sundial]

Dunno about that but Pandemonium is on Saturn and that’s much better. So is Croc

[hearty marten]

Dead or Alive. I love how well it plays on my dual sdram MiSTer FPGA gaming system

[pearl harbor]

Yeah, that's the version I have on my MiSTer. Sadly it doesn't have the Saturn Daytona soundtrack though. Just the arcade version, which isn't as good. Still a massive improvement over the game's default soundtrack at least!

[hearty marten]

Game over, yeah!

[glossy steppe]

Really though, it's a bit annoying that you can't do the typical analog inputs with dual-ram, yet the saturn had many effects that heavily relied on the RF/composite signal blending pixels on a CRT together

[wise brook]

just use Kuba’s composite blend

that option absolutely rocks

[glossy steppe]

I am guessing it would not be possible to do actual transparencies like some emulators sucha s Ymir can do?

[wise brook]

the option to blend certain mesh textures exists right now in the core

it was ported from ymir

quite the achievement

[glossy steppe]

Wait, really? It blends just those and not blurs the entire image?

[wise brook]

yep, certain ones anyway

[glossy steppe]

Though I think Ymir does it differently, rendering it as an actual transparency instead of blurring it

[wise brook]

might need some revision/expansion

[hearty marten]

Saturn core is perfect

[glossy steppe]

Perfectly... in need of enhancements

[hearty marten]

No stinky ymir features plz

[wise brook]

#1046941029296779344 message

this was from just after it was first implemented

the health bar at the bottom

[glossy steppe]

IIRC since the Saturn had a built in feature in the VDPs to take a solid sprite or polygon and cut it into a checkerboard, some software emulators are able to intercept this call and just... render it actually transparent instead of performing the poke it full of holes thing

No idea if that would be possible to do on the saturn core

It's not still poking it full of holes then blurring it, it's just putting holes in it at all and rendering it with actual transparency which the saturn generally could not do in most cases

[hearty marten]

But I guess the whole thing was blurred back in the day - so composite blend is a good simulation of what most people would have seen, right?

If you want the console to be something it’s not, that’s where software emulations will thrive

[wise brook]

better even, it’s blur without unwanted or excessive signal interference

[hearty marten]

“Better”

[wise brook]

just enough to achieve the desired result

[hearty marten]

I need cycle accurate signal interference

[wise brook]

stab your hdmi cable now

with a spoon

[hearty marten]

I want to buy one of those RF output things one day

[glossy steppe]

True, just saying that it matters a bit more in this case since this is a built-in feature of the saturn that can be intercepted, and that it was there to take advantage of CRT blurring... when the saturn core is the one many are getting dual-ram for which will make using it on a CRT harder

[wise brook]

the percentage of crt 1st users is quite low

[hearty marten]

That’s a fair point. I think composite blend is a decent compromise. Or people could use an external DAC

[glossy steppe]

An external dac woulden't really be able to tell which parts the VDP is cherckerboaring, just saying the saturn is in a unique position here

[hearty marten]

I dunno, I’m glad options exist for those who want them - but I try to make everything look just as shitty as it did back in the day. No turbo cores, extra sprites for me. Different strokes though…

[glossy steppe]

Just about any other system that used checkerboards for this effect, it was hard-coded into the graphic

[wise brook]

but you’ll miss out on Sonic’s potbelly without extra-sprites

[glossy steppe]

... I can live with that, I've already seen the horrors of Sonic XXL

[hearty marten]

I get super happy when SMS Sonic 1 slows down exactly in the areas I remember as a kid

[glossy steppe]

(Still not as bad as Sonic OmoChao Edition though)

[wise brook]

slow down as a kid made me feel like i’d pushed the game beyond its limits

[hearty marten]

Which coincidentally correspond to an enemy flying in from the right - which is handy 😅

[wise brook]

and that the game needed a moment to take in the awesomeness

[hearty marten]

Now people just whinge about lazy devs

[wise brook]

both are true

[glossy steppe]

Yeah, normally I want the game to run 100% authentic to the hardware, just that in this case the hardware was breaking up a solid image to try to create an effect that anyone playing their mister over hdmi, which is going to be many in general and especially those on dual ram, is not going to see

And they would be able to see it if this was done

If it even can be done, I hav eno idea

[wise brook]

sloppy programming from game designers who couldn’t write a line of assembly to save their lives

[hearty marten]

You reading this @burnt matrix?

[wise brook]

don’t tell me a mod here is a fake game maker

[hearty marten]

The best fake game maker ever

[wise brook]

Genie3 user confirmed

[hearty marten]

You probably know him for his role as the guy who named the blood punch in Doom Eternal

[burnt matrix]

lol

Yes it’s true, I invented Minecraft

[warped saddle]

more like stole it

I'm on to you

just need to finish editing this 6.5hr expose youtube video

[burnt matrix]

What’s done is done, it’s in the past

[warped saddle]

THE ROBBY SITUATION IS CRAZY

[burnt matrix]

Love for the future is what I always say

Live

[warped saddle]

a/b testing alternate title: WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT ROBBY

[wise brook]

https://tenor.com/view/grimace-gif-4412895

the hyper-majority of my species are alien to me

[burnt matrix]

I’m eating sour coated frozen grapes while reading this

[wise brook]

oh, there’s hope for you yet

[burnt matrix]

lol

Normal human things

[glossy steppe]

Wait, you're Hatsune Miku?

[hearty marten]

How are you alive?

Your diet astounds me 😂

[ripe valley]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/494

[wise brook]

what’s the word Zet!?

[ripe valley]

I tried on 6 different MiSTer configurations, there is something wrong with SFIII (SC.1) & the Dual RAM.

We need to regain Dual RAM supremacy here.

[burnt matrix]

hello yes, ram for crypto?

[ripe valley]

"Work faster, or you'll get a proper whipping (good)?"

https://giphy.com/gifs/whip-it-devo-mark-mothersbaugh-23LIwxLIXgr6M

[wise brook]

threaten me with a good time

ya sly ol’ dog

[tidal marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/bill-paxton-aliens-game-over-gif-27184304

[ripe valley]

I tried 20 different builds with Shining Force 3, that's not a seed problem here.
I will need srg320 on that when possible.

[lethal lantern]

I'm wondering if there is a SDram test for dual ram as I ordered a qmtech board with 128MB solder to the board and 32MB SDram board and I don't think I will be able to test the ram separately... if there isn't a ramtest core for dual ram is there a core and game that is a good test for a dual ram setups?

[celest lake]

There is. I’m on my phone, but it’s called 2ndrammemtest.rbf iirc

Search for that

https://github.com/birdybro/MemTest_MiSTer/blob/dual_sdram_test/releases/2ndrammemtest.rbf

[lethal lantern]

thanks

[glossy steppe]

Oof, wanted to get the RR ram module to go dual ram but the shipping is more than half the cost of the module 🙁

[hearty marten]

Treat yourself

[tawny forge]

I have finally succumbed to the dual RAM hype! Ordering a Direct IO Board from @unkempt kelp soon!

[wise brook]

for a DE-10 or Mister Pi?

[tawny forge]

MiSTer Pi!

The bathroom Pi needs to be dual RAM!!!

[lethal lantern]

By the way is there any core that benefits from dual ram that needs more than 32mb?

[wise brook]

none at all

there was some weirdness a couple years ago with the Saturn core

[lethal lantern]

Okay cool

Is that resolved

[wise brook]

yeah, years ago

[lethal lantern]

You might be able to get a cheap 32mb sdram off of aliexpress I got mine for $11 and that includes shipping

[lethal lantern]

That's good

[celest lake]

I believe the weirdness still exists

In DOA

[glossy steppe]

The ones I saw there cost even more. In fact, retro remake's was actually the cheapest I could find

[lethal lantern]

the 32mb on this listing cost less than $10... I'm waiting on mine to be delivered but I'll let you know if it works well or not https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801220508952.html

[glossy steppe]

A dollar? That's suspiciously cheap

[hallow fossil]

Guys, don't go buying 32MB sticks and definitely don't be buying them for a dollar on Ali Express

[wise brook]

sounds just like something a man planning to hoard ram sticks would say

[river river]

I thought 128MB was the standard for dual ram setups these days?

[hallow fossil]

RAM timings are a serious issue. The 32MB sticks are an old outdated design, and you have no idea how well made something on Ali Express is going to be.

Can you not get a cheap 128mb stick from Taki anymore?

[tawny forge]

https://tenor.com/view/boom-bird-parrot-explosion-gif-19159583

[warped saddle]

or just get the 128mb from that same seller

if you must buy from aliexpress

[burnt matrix]

Yes, let me spend hundreds of dollars on this device and just completely cheap out on an integral piece of equipment that will prevent anything from working correctly if it’s made poorly.

[lethal lantern]

it's actually more like $8-$10 aliexpress trys to bait you with that low price and than at the last second try to charge the full price

the taki ram is $20 and aliexpress seller sells the 128mb for more than twice that so it's probably leftover old stock that they are probably pricing to sell it's up to you if you want to take the risk... it's supposed to be a v2.2 board with Winbond W9825G6KH-6 memory which is supposed to be rated for 166MHz/CL3 or 133MHz/CL2 but I guess the timing could not be good enough for use in dual ram setups

[lethal lantern]

if it's not as described I probably won't try with my mister and just use single ram until i can order ram from taki

[burnt matrix]

Ok, that’s reasonable

[analog totem]

oh man, now I have the brain worms telling me I need a bathroom MiSTer…my partner is going to leave me for sure

[glossy steppe]

That seller charges more before shipping than it would be with shipping from Taki honestly

[glossy steppe]

Oh comon, don't be crazy. First you need a coat closet mister

[hearty marten]

https://tenor.com/view/arrested-development-gif-24255243

Nice to see dual ram really catching on over the last few weeks

[drowsy hull]

Why does robby hate saturn so much 😔

[hearty marten]

He hates dual sdram superiority

Gerbert would understand

Gerbert accepts no compromises

[strong osprey]

Gerbert would support canonical misters

this is a lie

gerbert would support any mister

[neon wind]

Just got my stick yesterday. It rules.

https://tenor.com/view/virtua-fighter-virtua-fighter2-sega-saturn-am2-yu-suzuki-gif-14316917

[hearty marten]

Enjoy!

[neon wind]

And next week I'll have my SNAC adapter to use my 3D Pad.

https://tenor.com/view/baby-cute-yell-shout-cheer-gif-17060849

[supple vine]

Does the Saturn core support "simulated" multitap? Or multitap only via SNAC?

I think the answer is "not yet", judging by this code comment: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/blob/10f380b5143bf9041b13e422ecfdee60861e98b5/rtl/Saturn/SMPC.sv#L1213

[coarse token]

end else begin //TODO: keyboard,multitap

[hearty marten]

Living the dream!

[tidal marsh]

i wish i didn't have to sit on the floor to live the dream

[burnt matrix]

Don’t sit on the floor

[haughty dove]

I wish I had a good enough excuse to sit on the floor

[tidal marsh]

Get a snac adapter

[haughty dove]

I have one. But my game room is set up too efficiently, my controllers reach my chair so easily

[burnt matrix]

hello! I too am fan of astrology

Stars are beautiful, but why we like Saturn planet

[winter phoenix]

Then boy do I have the Saturn game for you! Check out Sento Monogatari Sono I

[graceful horizon]

sega rally racing is hype tho

[graceful horizon]

hence why I grew to appreciate sf64 much more with the recompile

I hope every relevant game in the n64 library gets recompiled because the n64 was pushing above it's weight with 20 fps oot and those sf64 slowdowns

[visual sundial]

We never really got a great home version of Daytona until PS360

The first Saturn version was still default best until then though imo

[wide glacier]

i wish the dreamcast version wasn't so different

[visual sundial]

Yeah, them making CCE and 2001 back to back felt like they were embarrassed by the original arcade game

[wise brook]

the time that went into CCE should’ve gone into making a port of the sequel or something else

[visual sundial]

Sequel wasn’t out in 1996 when CCE was made tbf, but absolutely 2001 should have been either Daytona 2 or Scud Race. There was even a Scud Race tech demo for Dreamcast

[rocky notch]

The SNAC adapter I’m using is a Chinese version from AliExpress. It doesn't use a cable; it connects directly with the level shifter acting as a bypass. According to some AI troubleshooting, the issue might be the level shifter itself—apparently, it’s a transistor-based, older design that could be introducing 'noise.' Since the Saturn's communication protocol is faster than other controllers I've tested via SNAC, this hardware seems to be the bottleneck. I should probably wait for the MiSTer Addons unit to be back in stock and get one of those instead.
Thx!

[jagged spire]

I have both the Akicus and its AliExpress clone and they are both very finicky

I suppose the issue is with the third-party controller ports themselves, they suck; you have to bend the controller plug at a very specific angle to make it work

(please don't trust AI with troubleshooting)

It's also very easy to bend the pins inside the port if you don't plug the controller in exactly the right way, which I could describe as a 20-30° downwards angle

both adapters have exactly the same controller ports that you can find in third party extension cables

[rocky notch]

I tried what you suggested, but it’s still behaving the same way. The buttons don't work; only the D-pad responds, and whenever I press a direction, it triggers a button action simultaneously. I believe the pins are making good contact—I even tried tilting it while applying pressure to the port, but the behavior didn't change.

The SNAC design is identical to the original; I checked for continuity with a multimeter and all the pins are correctly mapped. I’m aware that the MiSTer Addons versions use a dedicated chip instead of transistors, which is why I suspect that might be the actual solution here.
I strongly suspect the issue lies with the transistor-based level shifter. Since the Saturn protocol relies on faster switching and tighter timings than other consoles, these transistors might not be shifting the logic levels cleanly enough, causing the signal interference I’m seeing. This is likely why the integrated circuit (IC) design used by MiSTer Addons is the gold standard for this specific core

[burnt matrix]

Nah, CCE trumps it

https://tenor.com/view/mokey-puppet-monkey-sidekick-monkey-angry-gif-14891453

[burnt matrix]

https://tenor.com/view/mokey-puppet-monkey-sidekick-monkey-angry-gif-14891449

[inner token]

MiSTer Addons doesn't use a dedicated chip instead of transistors that I'm aware of. Don't trust AI

The problem could be the aftermarket saturn connector, One thing to try would be pulling the saturn controller plug out a little bit after you plug it in the adapter. And are you testing a Actual sega controller or an aftermarket one?

[wise brook]

used to see this guy everywhere

[burnt matrix]

NO YOU REVEALED MY SECRETS

[paper tiger]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/8xrpjA7Fr55_uTMvuM_P67-U8SEJ8ddaPXFA1wxirD8/https/cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did%3Aplc%3Acf3stkos6b2o555pzm3tlniz/bafkreiatfid37olr7nlgqmsz5ev6dlnxrb46zo43vpx56mned6irikksiy%40jpeg?format=webp&width=754&height=840

[jagged spire]

I use a cheapo AliExpress level shifter too, that's not the issue, don't trust the robot

[nova pasture]

Is there any way to play policenauts with the virtua gun over SNAC or did the og require u to have 2 controller ports, 1 for the controller and the other for the gun? Haven’t been able to get it working unless i switch from digital gamepad to SNAC and then I can’t navigate the menu

[wise brook]

correct, MiSTer limitations mean only 1 snac for Saturn

there are old builds where you can choose between port 1 and port 2

so the could be brought back

buuut

for now your best method is a usb/bt “light gun” for port 2 and a controller or mouse of your choosing for port 1

[tight mica]

What a Great underrated game

[lethal lantern]

I got the ram today it has Winbond W9825G6JH-6I instead of a Winbond W9825G6KH-6... the datasheet says a feature of these chips is CAS Latency: 2 and 3 but under the part number it only list W9825G6JH-6I speed grade as 166MHz/CL3 whereas it list the W9825G6JH-6 speed grade 166MHz/CL3 or 133MHz/CL2 so I'm not sure if CL2 will run well enough on the W9825G6JH-6I board I just received,.. do any cores really need cl2 at 130mhz and does anyone know if the mister memtest utility tests at cl2 or cl3 timings...

[tawny forge]

Ok. Finished setting up the dual SDRAM MiSTer. Tell me a game that is borked on single ram that runs fine on dual so I can test and decide which one wins

The ones I tested so far run the same way to me

[glossy steppe]

NiGHTS and Burning Rangers has a lot of slowdown on single ram

[ripe valley]

Last Bronx, Fighters Megamix, Fighting Vipers, Virtua Fighter 2.

[tawny forge]

Awesome

Haven’t tried those

[floral saddle]

Daytona CCE

[glossy steppe]

Virtual Hydlide runs like total crap on single RAM... and Dual RAM... and real hardware....

[ripe valley]

Burning Rangers is slowdown fest on the original hardware.

[glossy steppe]

Yeah, it had slowdown on real hardware too, but on single ram even more

[ripe valley]

I can't confirm them on my MiSTer configs, same for Nights.

That's why I'm perplex from some results.

I trust you, but I think something else is playing here too.

[glossy steppe]

Do you have fast timings enabled? That would make it more obvious if you turned it off the slowdown difference between single and doubl

[tawny forge]

What are you guys talking about? Are those crappy on OG hardware too?

[ripe valley]

Ah yes, those games need the fast timings, that's also why srg320 implemened it.

[tawny forge]

Dual SDRAM is a fallacy

[glossy steppe]

... whenever I say something then see that like, 3-5 people are suddenly typing I just think "Aww crap, did I say something stupid?" 🤣

[glossy steppe]

From my memory while both have slowdown on real hardware too, it's not too often in NiGHTs, it happened when there was a lot of explosions in Burning Rangers though, but like I said, it's a lot worse on single ram without fast timings than on real hardware

[ripe valley]

That's normal, that's why you should use the fast timings for these games.

[glossy steppe]

bootsector was asking for games where you would see a difference between single and dual ram though

[tawny forge]

So if I don’t bother about those games or I turn fast timings for them I will get close to the OG slowness?

[glossy steppe]

Also doesn't fast timings make the emulation less accurate?

[ripe valley]

He didn't said if it was with/without the fast timings.

[tawny forge]

I mean, I don’t need dual SDRAM right?

[glossy steppe]

Also, NiGHTS seems to have a control issue reghardless of what settings or ram you have 🙁

[tawny forge]

You guys tricked me

[ripe valley]

Yes, unfortunately.

The RAM access to/from the SCU DSP is limited on the Single RAM, if I should explain simply.
We're missing the correct timings by almost nothing.

The Dual RAM is perfect on that point.

[tawny forge]

Is dual SDRAM 1:1 to the original hardware slowness-wise?

[floral saddle]

Nope

[tawny forge]

WAT?

[ripe valley]

With the testroms and knowledge so far, we are more accurate than an original system with a Saroo or Fenrir as of today (the Fenrir fails some CD Block tests, and the SAROO fails on the CRC check sometimes - depending on the quality of the chips and the cartridge pins) on the Dual RAM core.
And the games I checked with a real system works like the real system with a real disc.

[tawny forge]

I’ve been double-tricked

[ripe valley]

If you have any comparison with a double screen, I could see more with srg320 later.

The issue, I don't have any news from srg320 since weeks and I don't want to disturb him at the moment.

[tawny forge]

Hope is doing alright! 🙏

For now I’m still not convinced about the superiority of the dual SDRAM setup for Saturn gaming 😌

Oh wait, except for Grandia. That I saw a difference

Glitches are gone in dual

[ripe valley]

And I don't understand the issue with a controller on Nights, I saw something like that the other day.

[tawny forge]

I don’t play Nights so the core is perfect to me

[floral saddle]

You are moving part of the emulation into it's own memory space so the timings for it are guaranteed to be fulfilled, unlike in single where it is shared with everything else so can be bottlenecked.

[floral saddle]

I want to do this at some point as I'm sure there is more slowdown in a few games a certain points, but no longer having a Saturn means I need to find footage from real hardware that shows similar gameplay which might prove difficult, especially in game like Radiant Silvergun where play is so variable. Also don't have any means to capture MiSTer footage apart from a phone which is hardly ideal.

[tawny forge]

@naive whale to the rescue

[naive whale]

Eh?

[tawny forge]

Footage. Single ram vs OG. WEN

[naive whale]

Ummmm…sometime? lol

[floral saddle]

This is more about dual ram vs real hardware in a few spots, not comparisons to single.

[tawny forge]

@naive whale

OG vs Dual wen

[naive whale]

Once the core is done

Once Srg says “that’s it”

[floral saddle]

Having an FPS counter like the N64 and PS1 cores would be so useful for this stuff.

[hearty marten]

Dual sdram

[ripe valley]

I'm off for several days.

[hearty marten]

I kinda get the impression he’ll never say that. I think it’s pretty much “done” now, and has been for a while. All the bugs that are found seem to be very minor

[lofty spire]

art isn't finished, only abandoned

[hearty marten]

Exactly

[naive whale]

Someone get me a list then

And don’t screw me with something six hours into an RPG 🤣

[hearty marten]

You want to know which are slow on single ram?

[naive whale]

Yes. I know most but I don’t want to use my memory

VF2/DOA/Last Bronx…fill in the blanks for me

[hearty marten]

#1046941029296779344 message

GS-9133 Fast # Dance Dance Mix Vol 1
T-3603G Fast # Dead Or Alive
T-21001G Fast # FEDA Remake! The Emblem of Justice
MK-81073 Fast # Fighters Megamix
GS-9126 Fast # Fighters Megamix
MK-81073 Fast # Fighters Megamix
MK-81041 Fast # Fighting Vipers
GS-9101 Fast # Fighting Vipers
MK-81041 Fast # Fighting Vipers
T-4507G Fast # Grandia
T-14402G Fast # Gunbird
T-31101G Fast # Pyon Pyon Kyaruru no Mahjong Hiyori

(Plus nights, burning rangers)

Those are the ones people told me needed fast timings

Last Bronx for certain is slow too

Probably VF2 too?

[ripe valley]

Yes.

[naive whale]

So what do people want? Fast timing vs dual? OG timings vs dual?

[left chasm]

I'm interested in seeing the issues that cannot be resolved with fast timings

[hearty marten]

OG vs single vs fast vs dual would be the most illuminating but a nightmare

[ripe valley]

Pyon Pyon Kyaruru no Mahjong Hiyori cannot be resolved.

Cat the Ripper too.

[hearty marten]

Nor can Last Bronx. It’s still a slideshow with fast timings iirc

[ripe valley]

Let me recheck quickly, as it was working for me the other day.

EDIT : I see the difference, between the Fast Timings and the Dual RAM.

[hearty marten]

Looking forward to more people joining the dual sdram nobility once the evidence of supremacy is clear for all to see

No more peasant tier MiSTers

[floral saddle]

Last Bronx is one that I think is still a little slow at times with dual too.

[hearty marten]

I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that it was also slow on real hardware

[ripe valley]

And I don't see it on the memory tests speeds on the testroms.

[floral saddle]

Could be another source? Like how Dead or Alive used to really struggle on the second to last mirror match stage but then performance improved dramatically over a few months. Think I will pick up a cheap capture card next week and see if I can get some sequences recorded that are easily easily repeatable where I think things are a little off.

[ripe valley]

I just checked between some real hardware captures and the last unstable core, I can't see any difference directly.

And checked the attract mode of the game too.

For Dead or Alive, I saw the source of the issue with the tests on the Saturn RAM speeds, right now I can't see anything.

(I really need to go this time, and I don't know when I will be back)

[naive whale]

lol yeah that’s a half days worth of work

[floral saddle]

Thanks Zet, will get some capture toghther and see what everyone thinks at a later date. Take care.

[floral saddle]

Given your background any recommendations for reasonably priced MiSTer capture hardware?

[naive whale]

Internal or external?

1080p or 4K?

[floral saddle]

External as I only have a mini Beelink PC, 1080p will be good enough.

[naive whale]

$21

[floral saddle]

Perfect, thank you very much!

[winter phoenix]

I believe that team originally was going to port Indy 500 but then got put on making a “Daytona Remix,” later renamed CCE

[graceful horizon]

Grandia

[tidal marsh]

How do you know about this guy

[hearty marten]

Robby is a huge Johnny Vegas fan

And PG Tips are his favourite

He also loved ITV digital

[burnt matrix]

Whatever he said, it’s true

[hearty marten]

British words

[rocky notch]

Original Sega controller ones

[inner token]

ok good I think those should work, try messing with the connection like I suggested it's a know problem about the saturn connectors

[neon wind]

I started this one up on my dual setup last night. It's awesome with my TINK 4K and M30 combo. Grandia the way it was always meant to be played.

[hearty marten]

Another person who has seen the light of the dual ram setup!

[tawny forge]

https://tenor.com/view/excited-fuego-gif-12099368701239660790

[hearty marten]

Could you guys imagine using only single sdram and having to worry about when to use fast timings or not, and whether it will break the game?

[polar mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-cat-door-doors-behind-gif-2932066563552571305

[glossy steppe]

Considering it's only a handful of games where fast timing is recommended, I wonder if we can put together some sort of database so it can auto-enable it for those games, like how the N64 core has a database to know what save type to use for each game

Ideally with the Fast Timing option then having an On, Off, or Auto setting rather than forcing auto

[acoustic temple]

Thought It'd ask here also, anyone ever got SNAC to work on Saturn with a Retro-bit Sega Saturn Controller?

[burnt matrix]

No, controller is ass. I mean I think it feels nice but it even has issues on real hardware.

[acoustic temple]

[burnt matrix]

I ended up replacing the board inside with a Reflex CTRL board from @unkempt kelp and it’s been awesome

[glossy steppe]

I think those controllers were intentionally designed to not work on adapters?

[wide glacier]

after having used a few 3rd party pads, i'm convinced that nothing can match original controllers. just get a reflex ctrl and be done with it tbh

[burnt matrix]

In my case I got a deal on eBay and couldn’t return it lol

[wide glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-26470175

[jovial oyster]

Anyone have any suggestions for me? I can't get Donpachi running I start arcade mode then it loads to a black screen. Tried stable and unstable core as well as the game in CHD and bin cue format.

[marble laurel]

You use the correct région bios ?

[hearty marten]

I started. Problem is, it’s very hard to verify, and isn’t necessarily needed at all parts in each game, and might even break things

[graceful horizon]

The triggers are not goid but the facebuttons and shell is fine

They also have like 18 ms input delay

[jovial oyster]

Yeah treid setting to auto and manually set to jp no chnage

If someone else could test I'd be curious to know if it's just me or if it's the core.

[mortal mist]

i'll check it out soon

[glossy steppe]

Well, one can't really make it turn on and off for specific parts of a game so we would have to choose better to have it enabled or no for that game

[mortal mist]

Works fine for me, latest unstable single and dualsdram

Bin/cue redump

Micro sd card

In general, I do not recommend keeping the fast timings option enabled permanently, or at least remember to check the game when unexpected errors occur.

[glossy steppe]

Yeah, we were talking about a database where it just gets enabled for games determined to need it

[mortal mist]

We can definitely use this option without any problems in fighting games like Dead or Alive and on the same engine as VF, that's where I would start

[jovial oyster]

Not sure why I can't get it running then. Not a big deal other ways I can play the game but I guess it's not a bug with the core.

[visual sundial]

Completed Panzer Dragoon Saga for the first time since 1998, on the dual SDRAM core.

[tidal marsh]

You've lived the adventure...of a lifetime.

[kindred peak]

the real dragons were the ones we gooned along the way

[glossy steppe]

Did you get the save bonuses? Those were fun

[mortal mist]

How long did it take you to finish the game?

[visual sundial]

Unfortunately it doesn’t keep track of the time and nor did I. I didn’t exactly rush it and I’d say in the low 10s? It’s not a long game, but it’s as long as it needs to be imo

[small ore]

I beat it for the first time early last year, and it took me around 13 hours. It's quite short for an RPG but perfect for the game it is, exactly as long as it needs to be.

[visual grove]

But surely the devs would have added 35 hours of pointless side quests and crafting if only they’d had the technology!

[dense sundial]

wow, easy rent game

[visual sundial]

There’s still not really any other game like it so it still feels really fresh

[deft lynx]

1 dollar 1 hour simple as

[neon wind]

It really deserves a sequel... exclusive to Saturn.

[acoustic temple]

Would a Saturn 3D controller work with SNAC?

[glossy steppe]

yes

In fact, that's currently the only way to have analog triggers in the few saturn games that supported that feature

[rich violet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBbxDlXzxAY

[glossy steppe]

I wonder if it's quad-based GPU helped at all with that

[cobalt rune]

I had how this dude does his videos.

Take video of your game... And then put it inside a tiny screen in your video

It always makes me feel like he's hiding something lol

[thorn pagoda]

is it actually meant to be a real crt?

i thought it was composited in

[cobalt rune]

It's all just a wallpaper background with the video shrunk down to fix that little CRT window of the background

[dense sundial]

That's Fair Use 2.0

[cobalt rune]

Hey dude can do whatever he wants, I just personally find it odd. Shrinking it down to such a small window in the video is an odd decision to me. But that's just me.

[cobalt rune]

I find it annoying in these videos cause I wanna see the graphics and it's so damn small. Doesn't help my vision is going to shit as well

[wide glacier]

this guy has made quite a few neat demos, but i don't know if he ever actually plans to release anything, does he?

[glossy steppe]

I still wonder just what the hell was going through the mind of the guy who made that. Even bootlegs on Aliexpress would have a better designed cover

[burnt matrix]

It was “this is what the head of marketing is asking for and even though I think it’s stupid as shit if I don’t do this I lose my job”

[glossy steppe]

I can't imagine the head of marketing specifically asked for a tilted photograph of the original entire game case on the cover

[burnt matrix]

I gotta be real with you chief, those people are typically not bright

[glossy steppe]

This feels more like a "I did this in 10 seconds with the lowest effort possible and could not care less"

[burnt matrix]

I mean

Yeah probably lol

[burnt matrix]

I love this so much

[glossy steppe]

Coverception

[wise brook]

he does give his tech demos (mgs, crash bandicoot) to select other members of the Saga Saturn Dev scene to prove his work isn’t fake

[dense sundial]

just wanna know

launch Duke Nukem 3D, look at SEGA licensing logo at the very start

did it always awkwardly cut out, cut back in and made a smooth fade in on original hardware?

[mortal mist]

Yes

[dense sundial]

-# sloppy, Lobotomy

thanks

[winter phoenix]

https://www.segasaturnshiro.com/2026/02/13/frogbull-recreates-minecraft-on-saturn/

[merry raptor]

Sorry if this isn't the appropriate channel to ask, but what are some worthwhile ST-V games to check out?

[wide glacier]

Astra Superstars
Columns '97
Cotton 2
Cotton Boomerang
Dynamite Deka
Golden Axe: The Duel
Groove on Fight
Guardian Force
Purikura Daisakusen
Puyo Puyo Sun
Radiant Silvergun
Shienryu
Terra Diver
Elan Doree: Legend of Dragoon
Virtua Fighter Remix

[visual sundial]

Basically all ST-V games are on Saturn with extra modes though

[winter phoenix]

Don't be so sure! #1046941029296779344 message

You can't play Waku Waku Shinkansen or Maruchan de Goo anywhere else

[wide glacier]

that's true, although it's still worth playing the ST-V versions in many cases. often times there's different music and no loading times

it's a bit like the neo geo AES/MVS games compared to their CD counterparts

[cobalt rune]

I wish i could get excited about anything this guy does, but i simply can't. Nobody gets to try it out, other than a select few who you'll just have to take their word for it, and when he shows a video of it in action, it's shrunk down into an even smaller window.

[burnt matrix]

If I can’t play it, then it’s not real to me

[cobalt rune]

Exactly. I mean is it cool if it's all legit? Hell yeah. Neat little concepts and what not, but why display it in such a shurken down window? and why not allow anyone to play them?

[winter phoenix]

his Shenmue game is downloadable by everyone, and Minecraft will be publicly available eventually once he works on it more. Minecraft is available to his Patreon subscribers as well as SHIRO! Patreon subscribers now, too.

It's absolutely legit because I've played it lmao

[cobalt rune]

That's nice for those two things

but the rest is still locked away

and hey, that's his right, but those decisions make me personally not give a crap about any of it. Just my own opinion

[burnt matrix]

Sorry not real, better luck next time

Can’t fool me

[winter phoenix]

so he actually told me why he hadn't released the other stuff publicly ... he doesn't want eBay sellers to take it and sell it like it's some long-lost prototype from back in the day and get him in trouble

[cobalt rune]

People spend money to play tiny little concept demos though? damn that's wild

i've heard that reasoning before and i think that's nonsense.

[winter phoenix]

His other projects were stuff like Metal Gear Solid and Crash Bandicoot

[burnt matrix]

I used to do that

[cobalt rune]

Plenty of other concepts etc out there and that's really never been an issue

but hey, it's his work...he can do as he wishes

[wide glacier]

imo that's the fault of the bootleggers and any buyers who aren't informed enough to realize that they're buying a fake

[cobalt rune]

Honestly, my only real major gripe is how he displays them. Like hey...here's this cool concept project of what this could've looked like on Saturn...check it out on my Youtube channel! Now watch the video, in this other tiny window that you can barely see!

[burnt matrix]

Some people know and don’t care

[visual grove]

I say make more bootlegs / repros. Then people who really want physical media can get it cheaply. Yeah some collectors might make a mistake and buy a bootleg they think is genuine but so what? Collectible value is all arbitrary anyway

[glossy steppe]

That's nonsensical. eBay sellers take romhacks and fan patches and put them on a cart to sell all the time. Many even boot to a "This is a free project, if you paid for it you were scammed" message. It's 100% not his fault if that happens, also it's not like it would become news either, since any site that would cover such lost prototypes are likely to cover homebrew like this as well and would know it's fake.

[cobalt rune]

Exactly.

[sage minnow]

the problem is sometimes the bootlegged demo becomes hugely popular, like a Dragon Ball Kart 64 demo hack that really took off on ebay/aliexpress/etsy, and the dev loses motivation after seeing other people profit from their unfinished work and calls off the project (exactly what happened with DBK64)

[glossy steppe]

Again, that is not at all that dev's fault. Also, that's basically chasing shadows. The dev is so worried about an unlikely potential scenario, one that ultimately dosen't really effect them, that they are refusing to release anything. That's like refusing to ever get into a car in case there is a crash, except in this case nothing would even happen to the dev.

[sage minnow]

i think it does affect them if an unfinished version of their work they're not satisfied with becomes widespread. not a huge concern with most homebrews but it's a real one with something based on a popular property like minecraft

[glossy steppe]

Considering all the Early Access games on Steam that doesn't seem to be something most developers really care about. Besides, like I said, they could have that if you paid for it you were ripped off warning at the start

[sage minnow]

i've noticed some NES homebrews with "you got ripped off" screens at the start still make it to aliexpress, though i don't know if they're still there and the sellers don't give a shit or if they got them removed (granted, i'm guessing that's easier to do on NES than saturn)

[glossy steppe]

99.99% of bootleggers woulden't have the skills to remove them (especially if even a utterly rudimentary and basic anti tamper mechanism is added since that then means changing code), and the majority of those that could would not care to. That message alone will prevent a lot of scenarios you mentioned of people thinking it's lost unreleased game or a finished work.

[sage minnow]

for NES at least, i think you do need to have some hacking knowledge to flash bootleg carts. i say this because i actually bought a NES flasher/dumper from aliexpress and it was way more complicated to use than i had guessed

[glossy steppe]

? NES seems like the easiest

There are kits designed for beginners making NES homebrew to flash carts with

[sage minnow]

maybe it was the flasher i got, but i remember having to mess with headers and stuff

i kinda wanted to buy one of those homebrew bootlegs to see if i could reflash it easily, but figured that'd be shitty towards the original devs

[glossy steppe]

Heh, the cart dumper I have can do that for N64 (Not sure if it can do it for others)

Most modern N64 bootlegs are just a flashrom, which can be re-written

Conker is commonly used for this since it was one of the largest N64 games so it's likely to have a flashrom chip large enough to have any retail game written to it

[glass rain]

SWIM downloaded a drive image full of modern arcade dumps and there was a nag screen that said “if you paid for this, you got ripped off!” for 5 seconds every time you loaded a game. The bootleggers both (a) didn’t care and (b) were happy to sell the no-nag version after the community spent dozens of hours making it

[final mantle]

Saturn Keyboard test builds.
Key mappings and supported games: https://segaxtreme.net/threads/keyboard-hss-0129-for-sega-saturn-list-of-compatible-games.25472/
Game Basic Info: https://flybacklabs.com/sega-saturn-homebrew-with-game-basic/

[old pasture]

@final mantle I just dropped you a DM

[tacit viper]

Today I learned the saturn had a keyboard, and I dig it

[sage minnow]

very useful on the planetweb browser (which i'd love to see working on MiSTer one day)

[ripe valley]

The Saturn had also a Word processor in Japan.

[wise brook]

which has an english translation

[burnt matrix]

damn you posted here too? @final mantle you're going to optimize me out of my job!

[warped saddle]

AI is coming for you

[burnt matrix]

TOUCH THE PEEEEEEEENS

[visual grove]

No means no

[glossy steppe]

Well at that point it's like those movies that have unskippable anti-piracy messages at the beginning every time you play them, you're just making it annoying enough to the user at the point that they would prefer a bootleg version that does not have the nag screen. There is a difference between that message appearing for like 1-3 seconds just once at boot, and appearing for 5 seconds EVERY time you load a game in a game collection.

[glossy steppe]

Hell, even the freaking GameBoy had one in Japan.

[burnt matrix]

Damn that’s both hilarious dumb and super cool

[exotic crypt]

Damn when is the Gameboy core going to have USB keyboard support

[polar mountain]

I want to tell you guys that when I play Virtua Cop 2 I pretend that I am Robocop.

That is all.

Good day to you.

[dense sundial]

my illusion of that would be threatened if it didn't have nut shots

[burnt matrix]

My illusion has Mickey Mouse in a castle and it’s great!!!!!

[burnt matrix]

pins updated

[shy basin]

judging by the size of those .rbfs the FPGA must be quite full 😄

[ripe valley]

99%

[warped saddle]

like I'm continually surprised when someone adds even a small feature to that core

[shy basin]

I saw on N64 that it uses ~1/5 of the DSP stuff just for the video scaling och filters.
If it is the same for Saturn maybe an option is to reduce some of the fanciness there to get some more space for the actual core...

[ripe valley]

srg320 already optimised most of the VDPx and the RAM access/controller as possible + removed everything from debugging functions, just to gain 3-4% on the FPGA.

[shy basin]

I see

[winter phoenix]

https://bsky.app/profile/privateye.bsky.social/post/3meygxp224s2j

https://segaxtreme.net/resources/virtua-cop-quality-of-life-improvements.489/

https://segaxtreme.net/resources/virtua-cop-2-quality-of-life-improvements.488/

privateye (@privateye.bsky.social)

Released patches for Virtua Cop 1 & 2 on Saturn that, among other things, disable the white flash triggered by light guns for the benefit of setups that don't require it for hit detection (e.g. MiSTer FPGA + GUN4IR/Sinden). Such patches already exist for Model 2, I'm happy to bring them to Saturn :)

Bluesky · Feb 16, 2026, 4:13 PM

https://bsky.app/profile/privateye.bsky.social/post/3meygxsqh6s2j

privateye (@privateye.bsky.social)

-# ↩ privateye (@privateye.bsky.social)
House of the Dead patches that I released one month ago have been updated to give them the same treatment :

segaxtreme.net/resources/th...

Bluesky · Feb 16, 2026, 4:13 PM

[next bronze]

Castle of Illusion actually has a Saturn port! Quackshot is included with it. Only came out in Japan.

[burnt matrix]

Is it enhanced in any way?

[tidal marsh]

I LOVE MICKEY MOUSE

I LOVE DONALD DUCK

[wide glacier]

there's not much in the way of extras, but i think it's similar to the ports of the thunder force games, where the sound effects and music aren't quite as "clean", but performance is overall better with no slowdown and no sprite flicker

[winter phoenix]

it's on a Sega Saturn, so that's an enhancement right there

[idle gorge]

Mega Man X4 saturn port is great I just need to adapt to the controls so I can saber dash cancel easier to feel cool

MM8 has slowdown on single core though?

[wide glacier]

seems so. i'd imagine it's mitigated with fast timings

[hearty marten]

Imagine playing a game and wondering if the slowdown is accurate or due to only having single ram, and then wondering if fast timings will fix it or break the game

[noble escarp]

Updating my MiSTer after a long time.
Current saturn unstable requires main unstable too?

[idle gorge]

I mean, its why I asked. I didn't own a Saturn growing up

[wide glacier]

ignorance is bliss in this regard

[idle gorge]

I would have bought a dualram system but people I asked were like "ohhh you dont really need to outside of a small number of games" and for some reason I thought dualram didnt work with analog but learned I was wrong

||actually i bought a multisystem 2 because it was cheaper and had no dualram option RIP||

[celest lake]

I don't think it's required. But it fixes some stuff

[hearty marten]

I was kidding. Hopefully fast timings will help and you can enjoy the game 🙂

[idle gorge]

you know, as i typed that i didnt notice your name haha

its ok

[hearty marten]

[visual sundial]

'just use fast timings' is going to keep getting repeated regardless of whether or not it actually fixes the problem lol

[hearty marten]

Or join the nobility

[visual sundial]

I've been dual SDRAM since day one lol

[hearty marten]

A man of culture, I see

[visual sundial]

I think the confusion there is analogue triggers only work with SNAC. Analogue sticks work fine

[hearty marten]

I think they meant analogue output

[visual sundial]

Oh that kind of analogue

[hearty marten]

Which you can’t do with dual ram and a standard analogue IO board, but you can use direct out and a DAC

[visual sundial]

Yeah it's still a pick your poison situation unfortunately. Saturn is a primary use case for me though so single SDRAM was never an option

[idle gorge]

i meant output as in the display, yes

[wide glacier]

i love the saturn core, but didn't want to sacrifice analog output since i primarily game on a CRT, so i'm still using a real saturn for now. direct video has never worked well for me

[visual sundial]

If analogue video is a requirement and direct video not an option then yeah, gotta choose I guess

[idle gorge]

yeah, its pretty important to me right now

eventually when my CRT TV dies i guess ill just compromise and use an OLED or something

[hearty marten]

Sadly I don’t have the space for a CRT

[idle gorge]

i only have a space for a 20 inch one and thats pushing it

i cant do stuff like 36 inches

[visual sundial]

I know John Linnemann at Digital Foundry has talked about methods to convert HDMI to analogue video, but that's probably a bit investment

[idle gorge]

i do love my tv though

[visual sundial]

I'd love a CRT but no space

[idle gorge]

the dark day my CRT dies ill probably just get a dualram system or something, idk

hopefully that's a ways off

[hearty marten]

The main reason to get one, imo, is for a light gun

[visual sundial]

I've been considering a Sinden actually. I have a 65" OLED which would probably be great for arcade light gun games

[wide glacier]

lightguns are just a bonus for me

[idle gorge]

im not into lightgun stuff

[hearty marten]

Sinden is close, but not the same, sadly

[idle gorge]

is there a doc with games that are fixed by fast timing or need dualram?

I know the 3d fighters want dualram

[wide glacier]

there isn't unfortunately. we really need one

[idle gorge]

I could start a list maybe

[wide glacier]

it's definitely not just the 3D fighters like some people say though. i reckon that on single SDRAM, a good chunk of games will have at least some slowdown in places that they shouldn't, especially without fast timings

[visual sundial]

No-one (myself included) has really bothered because single SDRAM folk like to think fast timings solves all, and dual SDRAM folk have no reason to care lol

Another issue is most people can't do a side-by-side to know if slowdown is caused by the SDRAM, the core, or happens on real hardware

[wide glacier]

it can admittedly be pretty hard to tell with saturn games

a lot of games chug pretty badly even on real hardware

[visual sundial]

Like, when I completed Panzer Saga it chugged in places, but I know that game well enough to know it chugs in the same places on real hardware

[idle gorge]

I can deal with some chugging, like i said, i didnt grow up with a saturn

[hearty marten]

Games where fast timings are suggested:

list removed because fuck trying to be helpful

[idle gorge]

thank you

[hearty marten]

Hope that helps. People DM or @ me if I need to edit it

[idle gorge]

i played some of Radiant Silvergun myself without fast timings, it chugged once

so ill try with fast timings

ill save this list to a doc

[wide glacier]

apparently mega man 8 as well

[visual sundial]

Virtual Fighter 2 and Dead or Alive are rare 60fps games on Saturn, so no surprise they are taxing

[hearty marten]

Added. Thanks

[visual sundial]

It would not surprise me if Zero Divide is another one given it's another fighter that runs at 480i 60fps like VF2 and DoA, but I cannot test right now

[hearty marten]

If someone can confirm either way, I’ll add it to the list

[wide glacier]

that game is seriously impressive for a saturn title

[idle gorge]

do fast timings make the games just slightly playable or roughly on par with dualram but with the chance of bugs etc?

i just need to try it i guess

[hearty marten]

Depends on the game

VF2 feels similar, DoA is close but not quite there, Last Bronx is still a slideshow

But yeah, timings aren’t as accurate (faster to avoid slowdown) so there’s a higher chance of things breaking - which is why it’s not recommended to be enabled by default

[tawny forge]

And dual SDRAM fixes it all!!!

[hearty marten]

Yes, m’lord!

[burnt matrix]

Wagaaufhauagauag single sdram is fine!!

[hearty marten]

Legend has it that Robby likes single ram so much that he uses the single ram core on his dual ram MiSTer

The ultimate flex

[ripe valley]

You're doing a list without verifying against real hardware and a real disc at the moment, that's not the best idea.

FYI

• You can't enable the fast timings during the intro FMV of Fighters Megamix or you break the game.
• Megaman/Rockman 8 runs correctly against the real disc.
• Last Bronx can't run correctly on the Single RAM, I recognize it and tested it quite extensively.
• You can't fix the intro of Pyon Pyon Kyaruru no Mahjong Hiyori with the fast timings, but the main game works fine.
• Cat the Ripper can't boot on fast timings, and the game works fine on the PS1 core, we don't lose anything.

• Gunbird works now fine without fast timings last time I tested it (last month), it was a fluke from a bad build.
• For NIghts, I don't see any difference against real hardware videos and captures I asked earlier, with or without the fast timings;
• Same for Burning Rangers, the original disc is a lagfest already.

• The other games on the list are compensated with fast timings and I can't detect a real difference with my current configs against a real hardware for those.
  If you have direct comparison footage and some explanations where it shouldn't be like this or that, I should reconsider later.
  Like, I already done it by the recent past for other testers/users when it was correctly referenced and documented.

[idle gorge]

the info you guys are providing is incredibly useful, thanks

also: is there anyway to increase disc read speeds? The load times in tactics ogre are kinda bad but i assume there's no way im just asking for the heck of it

[small ore]

No: #1046941029296779344 message

[idle gorge]

ok thanks

[wide glacier]

buy a saroo 😉

[idle gorge]

that's tempted me but i think im happy with my mister

im locked in saving for awhile anyway

[visual sundial]

I bought a MiSTer precisely to not have to have tens of consoles set up, with flashcarts/ODEs and scalers

[idle gorge]

honestly, same

[wide glacier]

fair enough, though the saroo is about as easy as it gets

for me the mister only replaces everything up to 4th gen

[visual sundial]

MiSTer basically replaces everything up to Dreamcast. Some exceptions like 32XCD, 3DO

[wide glacier]

would like to see more improvements to the sega CD and 32X cores sometime, and eventually a 32XCD core, though the latter probably won't happen on the DE-10 nano

3DO is apparently in the cards though

[idle gorge]

I wish DC had more games that interested me to excuse buying one, id like to have every retro consoles by the end of this year playable on my CRT. Mister covers A LOT but i also have a modded ps2, 3ds and will probably be buying a wii when I can. Back when I did have a DC it was mainly for code veronica and some fighting games

[wide glacier]

there's a lot to love on the dreamcast, but you definitely have to dig deep to find the good stuff beyond what everyone already knows about

[idle gorge]

is dreamcast easy to play backed up games on?

there is no way in hell im jumping on the retro games market beyond buying consoles + mods

[wide glacier]

it's extremely easy to play burned discs on VA0 or VA1 consoles, or if you want to go the ODE route, GDEMU clones are very cheap these days

[idle gorge]

ode is what id prefer

[wide glacier]

me too. GDEMU is great, especially with the recent openmenu

[idle gorge]

do i have to know how to solder to install it?

[wide glacier]

nope, it's plug-and-play, but you do have to watch out for the power supply. the 12v line is no longer needed once the disc drive is removed, and it produces a lot of excess heat, so you need to either modify the original supply or buy an aftermarket one

[idle gorge]

well that's great to know, ill cross that bridge when i get to it

i for sure want a DC for CV anyway, the ps2 port is awful

[wide glacier]

so i've heard lol

[idle gorge]

i tried playing it on my tv and could barely see a thing

[wide glacier]

many dreamcast games that were ported over to PS2 lost a lot in terms of visual fidelity

[idle gorge]

yeah, also heard skies of arcadia's sound quality is way worse on GC

[wide glacier]

it is. i think the bitrate was cut in half lol

[idle gorge]

i played third strike on DC too but i heard the PS2 collection was closer to the arcade but still not ideal

wonder if we'll ever get cps3 support on mister

leaning toward "no" but who knows

[visual sundial]

The problem with Dreamcast in 2026 is most of its best games have since been ported to other consoles. Not all of them, some odd hold-outs like Headhunter and Outtrigger, but much of its library has been raided

[wide glacier]

CPS3 on mister has been talked about quite a bit lately. most people are leaning towards "it's possible but only with immense effort"

[wide glacier]

i will have to disagree. there's so many amazing games that are still exclusive to the console

[visual sundial]

Genuine question, which are the remaining ones? I guess the Sakura Wars games

I've a soft spot for Blue Stinger

[wide glacier]

-border down
-cannon spike
-confidential mission
-cool cool toon
-dynamite cop
-elemental gimmick gear
-fighting vipers 2
-frame gride
-napple tale
-plasma sword: nightmare of bilstein
-project justice
-rainbow cotton
-rent-a-hero no. 1
-tech romancer
-toy commander
-virtua fighter 3tb
-zombie revenge
just to name a few

many games that were later ported to other consoles are still arguably better on dreamcast too

[visual sundial]

That’s a fair list, yeah

I’d like to see some of the 3D arcade boards. Sega Model 1 (2 seems too much?), the PS1-based boards etc

[wide glacier]

me too. i think a lot of them might be too much for mister, but most of the PSX-based hardwares should be feasible. i believe ZN-1 is currently being worked on by coin-op collection, actually

[glossy steppe]

I generally feel that way too, although in the case of the Saturn it performed a lot of tricks due to its limited GPU that heavily relied on CRTs

[glossy steppe]

Would fast timings also falsely make games run better than they would on real hardware? Because nights definitely ran better for me with fast timings on

[glossy steppe]

Yeah, it's a shame but for my understanding model 2 was more powerful than the Saturn so that is probably out of reach. I really would have loved to play Sonic the Fighters on my mister

[exotic crypt]

Most of those tricks can be accounted for either with filters or composite blending tbf

[pearl harbor]

Hmm, is the mra for STV Puzzle & Action- Treasure Hunt outdated? I just get an error on cartridge message now.

It's the alternative that's in english.

[exotic crypt]

Traditional light guns are more dependent on the specific behavior of CRTs rather than video signal/display flaws (which can blend parts of the image beyond just light softening of the image + scanlines which enhances a lot of low resolution media)

[glossy steppe]

Yeah, light guns generally depend on the exact position of the Electron Beam, not what the image itself looks like. I guess we could simulate those someday if TVs ever hit like 10,000 Hertz refresh rates

[hearty marten]

Fine. List removed

[glossy steppe]

Time to fire up the CD burner

[muted cradle]

Imagine playing a game and not knowing if the slowdown is inherent to the game or just exposed on the dual RAM setup. And you wonder if the single RAM fast timing option is actually closer to the real thing. It's sadly not the case that dual RAM is a magic cure to RAM latency. It just mitigates the problem mostly better than the single RAM overclocking (aka fast timings).

[glossy steppe]

I mean, I do have my Saturn like, 3 feet away from me... but I don't think it's hooked up any more

[visual sundial]

I still have mine from 1997 but it’s at my parent’s place

[livid leaf]

Started work on a Sorted set for Saturn.

[burnt matrix]

Unless you guys have a real Saturn with an actual retail disc of the game to compare it to, you can’t say something is faster or slower than real hardware!

ODEs don’t count, sorry. Unmodified hardware with retail discs comparisons only!

[tawny forge]

@left chasm any plans to open the PR that adds Saturn analog triggers support via USB you’ve been working on?