Sega Saturn

[hearty marten]

I’m curious - why only mostly in the case of the N64?

[severe whale]

Speaking of N64. Would it be possible to implement the turbo feature in the main N64 core?

Like something you toggle

[errant crown]

There currently isn’t native support for DD games, so for now, I’ll use my N64 for those. Only way to do that, though, is with the Summer Cart 64, which goes out of stock often.

I used to use the cartridge-ized DD rom’s, but apparently, they have quite a few issues, including some games not being able to save.

99% of the time I play N64 now, I’ll just use the MiSTer, because of its convenience, graphical tweaking options, and overclocking functionality.

But, I’m considering getting a Summer Cart 64, so I can natively play DD rom’s on my N64.

[severe whale]

didnt even know there were that many "must have" games on DD

i've tried that super rare golf game on DD. It's really good looking for a N64 game

[errant crown]

F-Zero X got a DD expansion that has an extra tournament, plus a track editor AND a ship editor.

There’s also the Mario Artist trilogy, which is a spiritual successor to Mario Paint.

[severe whale]

Im kind of wondering if any of these games couldnt be released on standard N64 cartridges?

[errant crown]

And SimCity 64, which never got released anywhere else.

[severe whale]

or did they have extra features that prevented them?

similiar to how Nintendo released games on the famicom disk system but later rereleased them on standard cartridges

[errant crown]

There are cartridge-ized versions of them, but most of them have issues, some games not being able to save.

Fan hacks, not official

[severe whale]

ah ok 🙂

feels like there's only a matter of time until the main core will implement DD support

[tiny flare]

Every time I think it’s slammed into the limitations of the current board Robert surprises us…

[severe whale]

anyone tried CDMage? Is there a way to import several files at once to the disc image?

[errant crown]

I’ve used CDMage, but only for merging bin files.

[severe whale]

:/

[tawny compass]

I've been testing the Saturn core lately, and I've noticed that in both Fighting Vipers and Fighters Megamix the game shows a black screen after the intro cinematic and stops working. While the games themselves so far work fine if I skip it, I wanted to know if anyone here has the same issue.

[ripe valley]

Known issue, all software emulators to date and the current core have the same problem, no fix found.

[wise brook]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues?q=is%3Aissue+sort%3Acreated-desc+is%3Aopen

for your reading pleasure

some are redundant and should have been closed but it is the list to go to

[tawny compass]

Thanks! 👍

[mortal mist]

Are you testing core from June or the last test core ?

[tawny compass]

I tried Fighting Vipers on Bettle Saturn via Retroarch and it continued fine after the intro cinematic. I thought it was the game, just a small gripe though...

[tawny compass]

I downloaded the latest unstable, still happens.

[mortal mist]

ok great, it's not even about this bug , but about everything , there have been so many changes that it's a shame to test core from June 🙂

[frail token]

So Saturn core is better than software emulation now is that what I'm seeing

Watched the video @naive whale I learned that we need to get you more eyes

[errant crown]

Only thing I’ve really been noticing is the occasional audio popping. I’ve tested Saturn Bomberman, Astal, Daytona USA, and Elevator Action Returns. Found no issues, except for that.

[wise brook]

your rips or something your end is the problem

i’ve played those games on 3 different MiSTer setups and there’s no pops here

[mortal mist]

With test core 20241008?

[mortal mist]

Same for me

[naive whale]

haha editors blindness

you look at footage so often and for so long you miss the forest through the trees

[ancient surge]

It's better than the software emulators we have now, but still not quite on the same level as the original hardware. It's pretty close, but there are still miscellaneous bugs that need to be fixed.

[frail token]

You complained you need more eyes on it cause you only have two

[frail token]

Yep so I noticed I'm still very excited

[errant crown]

Yeah, most recent one

[mortal mist]

hdmi or analog audio ?

[errant crown]

Toslink audio

[mortal mist]

unfortunately I am not able to check it , I only use hdmi , here everything works 100% fine

[errant crown]

Gotcha

Only seems to happen when an audio track starts. Again, only occasionally.

[severe whale]

also lacking proper 480i support like on original hardware

[errant crown]

How many Saturn games use 480i during gameplay? It’s mostly just fighting games, right?

[severe whale]

Not only. Athlete Kings, Digital Pinball, Steep Slope Sliders and a few others used 480i

alot of games used it in game menus and titles screen as well

and then you have the fighting games VF2, VF Kids, Fighting Vipers, Dead or alive etc

in other words. The core is not complete until we have proper 480i! :SSSS

[ancient surge]

RTC doesn't work either. It keeps restarting to the default date and time every time the core gets a cold reboot. So for any games that used the internal clock, it becomes impractical.

Though to be fair, that is a small pool of games. Mainly limited to easter eggs relating to holidays.

[severe whale]

such as Christmas Nights?

[ancient surge]

The Christmas Nights demo, Twinkle Star Sprites, Puyo Puyo Sun, etc.

[severe whale]

Sega Touring also had something with RTC

cant remember what it was

[ancient surge]

I think the Tamagotchi game uses it extensively to keep track on your pets.

[errant crown]

For a second, I thought you meant there were pool games that used the RTC XD.

[next bronze]

Bust A Move 2/Puzzle Bobble 2X uses the clock for special seasonal attract screens (though they can also be chosen on the options screen).

[topaz cairn]

So with the recent improvements to the core, are there any major components of the core that are left to implement or mainly just bug fixes? Feels pretty close to complete.

[rotund flare]

I tried the new core, with SNAC, the start button is mapped to L1 and the trigger is activated continuously. Anyone got that? I tried two different MiSTers, Analog IOs, two different SNACs, two original Saturn controllers, two light guns. Multiple games.

[errant crown]

Had the exact same issue. The original SNAC cable for Saturn is really particular.

Has to be in a “sweet spot,” or it will do that.

That’s why I ordered the more recent improved Saturn cable from Mister Addons.

#1046941029296779344 message

Download this file

It will show you when the controller is detected

[rotund flare]

Yes I read that earlier, already ordered the SNAC v1 and SNAX v2.1 from mister addons. I did try both my SNAC adapters wiggling the connection in every way, none get to register the start button, but the lightgun has a working trigger, while the controller has a start button mapped to L1 and fire button is pressed continuously

[errant crown]

Start is supposed to recenter the dot. If L does it, try resituating the controller.

[errant crown]

Do you already have the improved one?

The cable, I mean

That connects to your controller

The one I bought half a year ago was before the improved one came out.

With the adapter I have (I still have to wait for my improved adapters to arrive), you have to connect the controller not all the way in.

[rotund flare]

I have the SNAC from ultimatemister. In that controller test ROM you linked, my Saturn controller registers, start button resets the ball and up down left right work. When I insert any one of my lightguns it doesn't register

[errant crown]

Wonder if adapters are cross compatible with SNAC devices by different manufacturers.

[rotund flare]

I will wait for the mister addons SNAC and new SNAX and new Saturn adapter plug. Should be here in a month. Until then I have no idea what else to try. The controller registers but with botched controls and the lightgun doesn't register the start button so unusable.

this was with the latest nightly (released yesterday) and also with the new update all rbf

[errant crown]

I do know that some SNAC devices have issues with Saturn lightguns and need resistors to be added

[severe whale]

480i support is lacking ffs!

I’m going to become an online Cato The Elder and finish every sentence with “480i must be supported!”
But in Latin of course.

480i sustentari debet!

[errant crown]

Anyone play Virtual Hydlide yet on the new core?

Aka the best game on the Saturn 😛

[mortal mist]

Of course, I play it every day

[tawny compass]

Texture filtering would be cool like in the PSX core. Would look awesome in 3D heavy games.

[ripe valley]

Each time 480i support is mentioned, it will be postponed by 1 month each time.
See you in 2037. 😏

[hardy lodge]

Grandia flicker must be as well, which makes me the reason Grandia flicker still exists in the first place.

[green swift]

I saw the email about SNAC compatibility, so is this long boi SNAC compatible with all of the Saturn peripherals?

I don’t yet have Saturn SNAC cables but I was going to pick some up and I figure if this thing isn’t compatible I’d upgrade it.

[polar mountain]

I think the Saturn snac is a standalone adapter

That's what I just ordered

[errant crown]

Wait, is texture filtering not a thing on the Saturn?

Never noticed

[errant crown]

Like an apple a day keeping the doctor away, but with core features.

[true bramble]

Hi, do you know how to save video setting of the saturn core?

[errant crown]

There’s a save option in the second page of the menu

[true bramble]

ok thanks

[sharp dove]

I tested the game and it's still kinda slow in performance ingame

[errant crown]

Wonder if Magical Hoppers has the same issue

[ripe valley]

I must search my OG system and a Saroo another day and redo some tests/captures.

[errant crown]

Aka the better version of Pandemonium 😛

[ancient surge]

You have to keep in mind that Pandemonium has lag even on original hardware. It's just one of those unavoidable things.

[mortal mist]

The game runs at the correct speed, but I won't spoil anyone's fun with comparisons 🙂

[hearty marten]

It also lags in a few places on the PS1. I wonder if it’s in the same areas

[gloomy hedge]

that health bar reminds me of my friends 300zx Z31

anyways carry on

[mortal mist]

think this is a bug , the green glow should cover the whole screen , alien trilogy 1-11

FLYT011 code if anyone wants to check on Saturn

[hearty marten]

Woah, that’s beautiful!

[errant crown]

Is Alien Trilogy better on Saturn or PS1?

[gloomy hedge]

It's pretty wild yeah, the car also talks 😂

She says shit like "the door is ajar"

[errant crown]

I remember when cars used to say door ajar

[sick python]

YOUR WASHER FLUID IS LOW

Friends Dodge did that all the time when turning

[gloomy hedge]

Lmao

Now that's driving

Sorry anyways what's this about alien trilogy

Carry on

[gloomy hedge]

I can check on my Saturn, what's this code?

I have the game up

this?

[hearty marten]

My car usually shouts at me when I leave my phone plugged in

[gloomy hedge]

this help?

looks like yours imo

[mortal mist]

Thank You

[gloomy hedge]

no bug right?

I had to see some alien headcrab under carriage thanks to you

oh you mean the strip on the left

[mortal mist]

There is a shift to the right

[gloomy hedge]

I wasnt looking at the left of your screen yeah I see

yep its misaligned

[mortal mist]

Thanks for checking

[gloomy hedge]

also when the music stopped I was like " oh is this for atmosphere "

oh sure dude

I got my saturn handy so wherever I can help I'll pitch in

I just dont want to do mister core testing cuz that stuff was annoying me a bit lol

but im happy to help otherwise

[serene thunder]

daaaamn

[thorn pagoda]

there is a pc port of pandemonium if you want to play it at 2 million fps (probably)

[severe whale]

I noticed that flicker today when booting it up

[gloomy hedge]

haha what is this gran turismo

[gloomy hedge]

oh SHIT

his car next to mine back in the day

neither of us have these exact cars any more unfortunately

we had fun comparing these

[fringe kettle]

it does, last I checked

but that was a while ago now, I'll need to try on this latest version

even though it has bouts of slowdown on OG hardware, on the mister it was running at half speed pretty much the whole time

[sharp dove]

Same thing

[sharp dove]

Yeah but as someone who's first Videogame ever is this particular gem... I can tell it's not up to snuff rn

[ember terrace]

well, I'm afraid I just can't get my orange stunner to work no matter what I try. I tried Misteraddons Snax v2 and Snac v1, I tried the latest unstable nightly and also a recent lightgun test core. With the Snax, trigger presses were flashing, but everything was a miss. With Snac it's not responsive at all. I had one question though, I know to set snac to 'on' in the input menu, but do I set pad 1 and pad 2 to anything in particular? Thanks much.

[errant crown]

Do you have the new “improved” Saturn adapter?

The original adapter is finicky.

[inner token]

#1046941029296779344 message

so SNAX needs a couple resistors changed to work with stunner, the v1 snac should work though. it's probably a connection issue there. leave a mm or 2 gap when plugging in the saturn peripheral. the pad1,2 options are just for usb, all you need is snac=on

[inner token]

that should work if you get the saturn cable from porkchop

[inner token]

that test rom doesn't handle the stunner, think you'll get "no device detected" or something similar. it's only good for controllers.

[ember terrace]

no, it looks like i don't have that one unfortunately.

[errant crown]

I suggest ordering one. Other people in this server have reported not having connection issues with the revision.

[ember terrace]

I'm going to. Thank you!

[errant crown]

I ordered 2 of them last night.

[ember terrace]

the snax 2.1 says it just added stunner support on 10/6/24
https://misteraddons.com/products/snax

I just emailed porkshopexpress to see if he'd consider letting me exchange the snac v1 i just got for the 2.1

[errant crown]

You could also order the required resistors. You can apparently buy them from Digikey.

[ember terrace]

thank you, I'm not very handy though. I'd probably feel better getting one pre-made.

[next bronze]

I ordered the Snax 64 since I don't have it yet and it also just added the stunner support

and I have the Ultimate Mister Saturn SNAC, as well. I somehow got it working ok with the stunner without issue, though it has the older finnicky adapter.

[ember terrace]

Porkshop got back to me and said he V1 SNAC should work, but I'm not having any luck.

[topaz cairn]

So those of us with the current SNAX adapter wont be able to use the stunner?

[ember terrace]

I have a snax v2 and it wasn't working(at least with this core version)

[errant crown]

There are instructions for resistors to install on the site

[tiny flare]

Oh sweet, will try and modify mine at some point and report back

[errant crown]

I hear you can buy them on Digikey, but I’m having a hard time actually finding the resistors on there

[inner token]

yeah stunner won't work without that modification with snax. There didn't seem to be any way to fix it in the core.

[soft goblet]

I'm guessing even with that video input (?), the SNAX will still need a CRT to use with lightguns?

[thorn pagoda]

yeah thats just for guncons and it doesn't do anything magical. crt still required

(its a video sync signal guncons need)

[errant crown]

Isn’t the Sinden a fix to that problem, though?

[drifting crown]

Random thought but can you actually get a video signal from the sync jack on the snax in the psx core?

[rotund flare]

Is there a test rom that does?

[thorn pagoda]

no it isn't a whole video signal

[thorn pagoda]

yep

[visual grove]

Just Google “0402 resistor 10k digikey”

(Or 0603 for mistercade)

You can get them anywhere though of course

Even Amazon sells reels of them

[inner token]

not really that I know of. https://ppcenter.webou.net/pskai/pskai_release_20240114.7z that one has hidden "smpc test" hit a L or R shoulder button on main menu then press UDLR then Z to unlock the "extra stuff" menu, then choose "smpc pad test". It will only read A0 as the first byte when stunner is connected and detected, it won't give you anything when you press start, or trigger. It does give you button presses if you use a regular pad.

[mortal mist]

I see that the problem with white lines in Virtual Hydlide still occurs

not all the time and not in every place , but still

[frail token]

That's the fog of war

[proper prism]

When I create a RAM cart file for the Saturn core, does it need to have a specific name/file extension?

I can create .bin file with SSF but I don't know if that would work.

[ripe valley]

RAM cart isn't implemented on the core.

Only internal saves.

[proper prism]

Ohhhhhh

I was trying to take advantage of some of the games that use the 4MB RAM cart.

[ripe valley]

@proper prism Okay, I didn't understood well.

I thought you were talking about the external save (backup) RAM cart.

For the regular 1MB/4MB RAM cards, you have simply an option to activate on the core.

[proper prism]

So I don't need to load a file for the 4MB ram to work. That's good to know.

[serene thunder]

There are a couple games which use a ROM cart to provide fast access to extra data

And those might need to have the ROM loaded in addition to the disc image

[ancient surge]

All two (2) games.

[serene thunder]

"a couple"

Else I would have written throuple or more

BTW this is a pretty sweet box set

At least it looks impressive

[ripe valley]

There are also some romhacks for removing the necessity of the ROM cart.

[proper prism]

There are more than two games that make use of the 4mb ram cart.

[ripe valley]

Don't mix ROM and RAM carts. 😁

[proper prism]

I was asking about the 4mb ram cart.

[ripe valley]

For activating the 4MB cart, you just need to select "Cartridge : 4MB DRAM" on the core.
No need for any external BIN file.

[proper prism]

Ok. Thank you. That answers my question.\

[errant crown]

Noticed a bug in Metal Slug that I assume isn’t on actual hardware, where in the snowy level, a tree will flicker on and off.

I’ll try to capture it if I run into it again

Otherwise, it runs great

I can’t play it properly on my Saturn because apparently those Action Replay 4-in-1 carts don’t replicate the 1MB RAM cart very well

[tall radish]

Ayy, Rayman's been fixed in the latest nightly! Amazing work.

[cunning citrus]

Both Kof and Ultraman games were patched to use 4MB carts, it loads the rom content into the ram cart when the game boots.

[ember terrace]

I'm going to try again to get my stunner working. I was wondering what the correct menu settings are? It's "snac ON" but what about pad 1 and 2? Do I set them to anything in particular? Thank you

[errant crown]

Just set SNAC on

[ember terrace]

Thanks!

[old pasture]

I loved the Stream yesterday. Every time I boot up the Saturn 🪐 core I realize #MiSTerisKing

[stiff patrol]

Anf if you have the Snax Variants >= version 2 you will need to do some soldering

https://misteraddons.com/blogs/news/saturn-stunner

[soft goblet]

This is like the 5th time that the stable saturn core choked on SF III Scenario 1 for me with a CD read error... using CHD images. The place where it happens is always completely random and not reproducible.. anyone else?

Also seems to be no way to recover from this, i.e. to make it retry?

[mortal mist]

I can safely say that this core you are using is very outdated , there have been many changes

I recommend a new core

with CHD problems, I also recommend checking the bin/cue version

[soft goblet]

I had one read error with the latest unstable, too

Wait, second to last unstable by now

[mortal mist]

ok try bin/cue

this is the japanese version with the patch ?

[soft goblet]

Yep.. and just tried latest unstable and the bin/cue and got a read error just standing in a church, didn't even do anything..

[rich violet]

Maybe the SD card/filesystem is corrupt

[soft goblet]

unlikely, hasn't happened with anything else and it's a fairly freshly set up, brand new card

[ancient surge]

I remember a long while back that people were issues with Shining Force III being unstable, like the game frequently crashing when using a healing spell.

I guess there are still some problems?

[mortal mist]

no , those problems have been solved

here is a problem with reading data, maybe the game does not work well with the englisch patch on the core

[river wing]

I have also seen (well, heard) CDA distortion for a couple of seconds, using the latest nightly build of the core and latest unstable MiSTer main. Have you guys seen that too?

Happens on different games, like Daytona USA, Sega Touring Car, VFR, etc

Is there a know problem/limitation with using .CHDs in these cores?

[mortal mist]

I have tested many games , but u such problem does not occur (except that I do not use the chd version at all )

[river wing]

I mean: I know CHD is a compressed format, and the ARM CPU on the MiSTer which is decompressing them isn't a powerhouse, but then audio problems caused by CPU limitations of the Linux part of things would be continuous...

I must say, I have that also on the PSX core, not only in the Saturn core

[ripe valley]

I've neither been capable of reproducing the issue on Metal Slug, nor on Shining Force III so far.

For SF III, I'm using the v25 translation version of Scenario 1, patched and compressed myself (with CHDMAN 0.270).
Last unstable core, last unstable Main.

[mortal mist]

MiSTerPi strikes back 😄

[ancient surge]

I'm starting to think the MiSTer Pi is pretty half-baked.

[ripe valley]

Needs more cooking oven time.

[mortal mist]

For now I have no need for it, but if I had to choose I would rather save my money and buy de10 nano.

I do not like to compromise and would not be able to test cores on clones.

I have qmtech and as an add-on it is great 🙂

[celest lake]

I can test it on my mister pi today and see. I have a mister pi and a de10nano that pulls from the same nas, so we can do a pepsi challenge if needed.

[mortal mist]

I guess not all misterpi have the same problems ?

[celest lake]

yeah, and mine doesn’t have taki ram in it - i bought a misteraddons stick

[naive whale]

Saturn controller shootout time

[gloomy hedge]

If the m30 doesn't win this ...

[naive whale]

lol

[gloomy hedge]

Oh wait are you missing one or are you not doing the OG

[naive whale]

OG is in there

[gloomy hedge]

Cuz the wireless and wired retrobits feel different

[naive whale]

I just owned the wireless retrobit

[gloomy hedge]

The wired one feels different

You're gonna need to review that one

I use the wired one as my daily driver for mister

The wireless one is much tighter and uh less smooth, less original

[naive whale]

lol then buy one and send it...otherwise I have no more desire to buy more Saturn controllers (ill mention your feedback in the vid)

RetroBit and 8BitDo arent mailing me this shit though haha

[gloomy hedge]

I mean I could give you one of mine literally I have too many

But I don't think you want to redo your vid haha

[naive whale]

Appreciate the offer but I have too many controllers too

like...100 controllers 🤣

[gloomy hedge]

My feedback I would say is this

The OG Saturn is in the middle and a bit squishy but precise, the retrobit wireless is heavier the dpad is higher up and it's stiffer, just as precise but doesn't rotate as freely, feels a bit tough, the triggers on the wireless ones are slightly better and don't have a chance of getting stuck

The wired one is looser than the original Saturn pad, faster, rotates more freely

The dpad on many of these break and they will send you a new part

Then you should be good, their quality control on the triggers however is extremely poor

Your triggers are likely going to get stuck or wear down over time

This is likely due to the lack of bolstering the metal L piece connected to the trigger button.

The M30 feels closest to an original Saturn pad to me, but the big bonus is that it has amazing triggers

If you open your wireless one you'll see some of the design issues with the triggers but it's better on the wireless ones, unfortunately the dpad to me is too stiff

I have pictures of the inside of mine if you want to include lol

[naive whale]

lol we are so far apart here

the triggers are what I DONT like about the M30

no satisfying click like OG Saturn

[gloomy hedge]

None of them do that though

The OG Saturn click is only on the OG

The retrobits I mean have terrible triggers

The problem with the OG is your rubber will wear out

And it's hard to get replacements

[naive whale]

I dont use rubbers

raw dog life

[gloomy hedge]

Yeah try it genius

Take the rubbers out

🤣

[naive whale]

haha no itll be "most reliable daily driver" - M30

Best real feel OG - OG

[gloomy hedge]

Oddly my retrobit wired is still my mister daily driver after 2 years

[naive whale]

closest feeling approximation but sometimes flaky - retrobit

[gloomy hedge]

I just don't use the triggers

Yeah exactly

They just have shit quality control

None of their controllers feel the same

I know because I have 5 of them

🤣

The M30 shape is also ok but I prefer the glossy plastic of the Saturn pad original stgle

I can grip it better

You gonna review that dual stick abomination?

[naive whale]

nah

its just about these three plus arcade sticks

[gloomy hedge]

Arcade sticks wut

[celest lake]

but what about

A N A L O G

[strong hull]

You clearly can see the esoterica in that picture

[celest lake]

look how sad the big boi is. always excluded

[serene thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-gorilla-hat-tub-silly-gif-17209999

[willow siren]

Just came searching the latest RTC after trying Nights. It's different somehow, I didn't get an in-game prompt in Nights this time.
But still not fully there, always 1st January. Guess the time would need to be handled differently

[naive whale]

separate vid

[lost totem]

100% this. my first one broke within an hour of a tetris session 🤣 I was sent 2 replacement dpad pivots that were also made of a different material than what was originally in the controller

[gloomy hedge]

yep that is how it goes

I have 5 of them I think 4 of them needed the new part lol

regardless of which model it was

I have 1 model 1 wired, 2 model 2 wireds, and 2 wireless's

then I got 2 saturn pads that have been modded with the 8bitdo modkit pcb, and then a couple OG saturn pads, then I got a bluetooth m30 which I use on switch and then a 2.4ghz m30 which I use on pc, usually wired

basically walking around my house you will likely trip over a saturn style pad

[dusty shale]

What save file formats (other than .sav) does the Saturn core for MiSTer support?

I have some .bup save files dumped from my Action Replay via the Satiator that I'd like to try on my MiSTer.

[mortal mist]

Only .sav

[dusty shale]

Thank you!

[tiny flare]

Haha yep I already had to replace the switches on my retrobit triggers with Xbox replacements, ended up just assembling a daemobite instead to use my OG pads, or yeah just use my m30 wirelessly

[errant crown]

While we’re talking about Saturn pads, to me, the SBom Joycard is where it’s at

[gloomy hedge]

Yeah I'm rocking the 8bitdo mod kit for two of my OGs ha

[pine bobcat]

Don't forget you can also throw a reflex ctrl Saturn board into an OEM or Retrobit wired shell

[green swift]

Oh snap! I had no idea there were Reflex ctrl boards other than SNES. That is pretty sweet!

[pine bobcat]

Yep, NES, SNES, Mega Drive, Saturn and... Virtual Boy

[green swift]

I come across a lot of Saturn controllers with frayed cables and dead PCBs, so that's a great option.

Well, not dead PCBs, but cap damage.

[jagged quartz]

@naive whale , you deserve my sincere thanks and appreciation! I learned about Elevator Action Returns because of you...

Just played it, and... Wow. What a great game on Saturn!

It's a crime it never released in the US.

[tiny flare]

Ohh, maybe I’ll try this with my Retrobit at some point then, thanks for the tip

[errant crown]

I wasn’t interested in that game until I saw that vid and tried it out. It’s really addictive, with an amazing soundtrack.

[jagged quartz]

I love the intro cinematic as well. Just the Saturn showing off!

[pearl harbor]

Love me some Elevator Action Returns! I will also always remember it being one of my most frequently tested games for the MiSTer core, because of the bug that kept causing the insane laughter whenever an explosion occurred. Good times.

[errant crown]

It recently got a modern PC/console port, but it doesn’t seem to add anything beyond the original, besides built-in cheats.

[upper dust]

Elevator Action Returns was the first game I tried on the early core back in September of 2022

could not believe it was running at all back then

[errant crown]

I have found one game that doesn’t seem to work with the core. Magic Knight Rayearth just gives me a black screen after the opening FMV. When I tried the Un-Worked Designs patch for it, it just took me to the Saturn home menu.

OK so, I tried the single RAM core, and I didn’t get the black screen problem.

Dunno if the patch issue is because of the core, or the patch not being properly applied.

[mortal mist]

Unapatched game works fine ?

[errant crown]

Yeah, unpatched game works fine

Apparently, someone posted this a while ago working on this core, hmm…

OK, Unworked Designs… works

You know what… could’ve been the RAM cart setting I had. Cuz now, it works just fine on the Dual RAM core.

Guess I should just have no carts selected unless I’m playing a game that needs one.

[mortal mist]

works fine for me 4mb cart + dualsdram ( Un-Working Designs)

[errant crown]

Just tried it with 4MB RAM and… it worked

I honestly have no idea what the hell happened

[mortal mist]

in such cases it is always worth reloading the core , or just do a cold reboot

such things can happen

[ripe valley]

Works also for me.

[errant crown]

Cold reboot meaning turning it off and back on, as opposed to slecting reboot on the menu?

[mortal mist]

you can do a quick reboot in osd or by holding down the button - cold reboot

[wet hull]

This is a very buggy feature unfortunately.

It should be removed

[mortal mist]

so it's best to turn off the mister 🙂 but reloading the core should get the job done

[mortal mist]

I do not use this , but since such an option is , someone can assume that it should work....

[fallow oracle]

Oh I missed some Elevator Action Returns talk. One of my favorites, enough so that I own the arcade cart.

[naive whale]

One of Saturns best

[fallow oracle]

One of Taito's best

[quick sorrel]

What are some other good Saturn arcade games like Elevator Action Returns?

[fallow oracle]

Darius Gaiden if you want more Taito goodness

[drifting crown]

Die hard arcade unless you are dead inside

[quick sorrel]

Have the bugs in Die Hard been fixed already?

[ripe valley]

Yes.

Last unstable.

Sound and waiting time are fixed.

Just passing by

[quick sorrel]

Just updated it a few minutes ago

[dark cloud]

Can you share your input settings for Stunner? I have Snac ON and both pads set to digital, but all I'm getting is Start button on the Stunner, trigger doesn't even make the screen flash. I'm using SNAC single port from MisterAddons.

[rotund flare]

Haha I'm getting the exact opposite, only the trigger is responding and the start button does nothing. On two different stunners, on two different SNAC adapters, on two different MiSTers, on two different Analog IOs. So quite a lot of variables I tried. And of course I tried wiggling.

[tiny flare]

Those settings should be fine, AFAIK having SNAC enabled is all that should matter. If you’ve got the older Saturn dongle you might just need to wiggle the cable in the port a bit to make good contact, which yeah can be a bit frustrating

[dark cloud]

Yea this one arrived today so I am assuming it is the newer style. I'll pull out my old Saturn 3rd party controller and see if that works on regular games.

[green swift]

I just played Die Hard Arcade 10/08 unstable and the waiting time was still happening. It happened right after getting into the elevator but before the antagonist was complaining about finding the president's daughter. This was from a CHD if that matters.

probably a 60 second wait time.

[dusty shale]

Over time, I've come to like the Retro-bit Saturn pads less.

The M30 really is the king among modern 6 button pads.

[gloomy hedge]

Yeah...

[gloomy hedge]

Also super yeah

[dusty shale]

I honestly think the mid-2000s Play Sega USB pad is better than the Retro-bit Saturn USB pad.

[gloomy hedge]

Never had one of those

[gloomy hedge]

Ooo looks good tbh

[dusty shale]

The triggers actually feel functional.

[gloomy hedge]

As a shmup player the dpad is the most paramount to my enjoyment, that is the most important element above all

I do like using triggers for shmups too occasionally as well especially any with rapid and focus buttons

So the m30 has been carrying that

[dusty shale]

The overall controller still doesn't feel quite like the OEM Saturn, but it doesn't present itself as a match for the original.

[gloomy hedge]

Ultimately I find the retrobit dpad for wired saturn to be excellent and fast and works for very quick and precise movements, so it works but the rest of the controller... Well

It meh

[dusty shale]

An honourable mention for me is the Power-A Fusion.

[gloomy hedge]

I haven't tried this one but I've heard not good things about build quality

It sure looks nice though

Ultimately m30 came into my life and it was basically over after that. Very consistent build quality.

[drifting crown]

I never got my playsega wired to work on my mister. You can however do a pcb swap with them into an original mk2 controller. They feel great once that is done.

[dusty shale]

For me, everything works except the Start button.

[drifting crown]

I got a m30 so it’s put back and in a box to go to charity.

[twin canyon]

m30 GAMEPAD KILLER

it's so good

[dusty shale]

Tried renaming a .bup save file to .sav for use on the MiSTer and got this screen.

Fair play, I didn't think it'd be that easy.

However, there has to be a way to get my original hardware saves working on the MiSTer.

[mortal mist]

It works without problems for me, no long loadings times.

Tried many times

[ripe valley]

Update your Main MiSTer file.

[soft goblet]

https://github.com/hitomi2500/ss-save-parser That may be able to do what you want

[rotund flare]

How is the latency? Is it as good as an original Saturn?

[gloomy hedge]

on mister its fucking amazing, let me get the stats

its like a 5ms situation

now I do think the retrobit performs better, their pcb's are stellar

but no one is noticing the diff between 1ms and 5ms

[green swift]

Is it not the main from update_all?

[ripe valley]

Last Unstable Main.

[rotund flare]

That is very good. I bought the RetroBit Saturn wired (original Saturn connection) and the DaemonBite Saturn adapter to play SHMUPS. But it doesn't register. I had to buy a real Saturn controller, that one registered on the DaemonBite. The RetroBit Saturn also doesn't register on the SNAC for Saturn. So for me, with the MiSTer, the RetroBit Saturn controllers are useless. Maybe they work on an original Saturn?

Now I use the original Saturn controller with Saturn core and SNAC, really fast and good controller for SHMUPS. But you say the 8BitDo M30 via USB to the MiSTer is better controller? If only 1ms then thats good. I'll try it

[green swift]

The one from 9/12 from Alexy or the one from yesterday from Steve Rob? I imagine they don’t build on each other. Thanks for helping btw.

[tiny flare]

They do build on each other

[ripe valley]

The one from Steve Rob should do the job.

[green swift]

Thanks!

[tiny flare]

“Unstable” is just the latest build from commits to the main repo, before a release is made from those commits

[green swift]

Ahhh okay. So then TEST are one-off builds. Got it. Thanks for explaining. Unstable is basically like a “nightlies” build then.

[tiny flare]

Yep, that’s right

[gloomy hedge]

I dont understand what you mean, they're usb, you dont use them through snac

you just plug them in

ohhhh you got some that are not usb?

[gloomy hedge]

the 8bitdo m30 is not better than an original saturn pad I dont think, I dont have a SNAC so I cant compare to be honest, I would just use what you have, no need to change that!

its not 1ms, its more like 5ms for the 8bitdo m30 (wired)

[rotund flare]

What do they test there? Minimum latency or average?

[gloomy hedge]

everything

use the spreadsheet if you want the detailed data

its much easier to use

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KlRObr3Be4zLch7Zyqg6qCJzGuhyGmXaOIUrpfncXIM/edit?ouid=100111523164688126923&usp=sheets_home&ths=true

I dont use the site it confuses me lol

[rotund flare]

Yea the M30 looks good 👍🏾 I ordered it just now, to try if the D-Pad is as nice as the OG Saturn. 1-4ms is definitely fast enough for me. But I like that it has more buttons for menu etc.

[gloomy hedge]

yues thoseb uttons are super useful!, report back after 🙂

[twin canyon]

m30 is in fact better than original saturn pad and i haven't even touched a saturn pad in my life. it's that good.

[errant crown]

Isn’t SNAC identical lag to the original consoles?

[barren ice]

Gonna have to try out X-Men

[upper dust]

Yeah - it's serial native so there's no USB layer in the way. Also why you can only use real controllers per console

[quick sorrel]

How can we test latency of controllers not listed on the spreadsheet?

[barren ice]

These words ring true to me.

I actually prefer playing Saturn on my MiSTer because of this haha

[hearty carbon]

Did you ever write for a website called Ficly? @barren ice

[barren ice]

No... why do you ask? Similar handle or something?

[hearty carbon]

Same handle. Just curious. I know a Douglas Adams reference on the internet shouldn't seem uncommon 😄

[barren ice]

Haha cool

And I thought I was being kinda original...

[hearty carbon]

Rare enough that I thought I'd ask at least.

[barren ice]

I do like Douglas Adams and the whole HH Guide series 🙂

[high bramble]

My MiSTer hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't...

My favorite actual quote from that entire series though:

“There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

There is another theory which states that this has already happened.”

[barren ice]

Yeah so good

Best marriage of philosophy, sci-fi, and humor, ever

[hearty carbon]

Someone gifted me a journal with a whale on it and I drew a bowl of petunias next to it with a thought bubble reading "Oh no, not again"

[tiny flare]

I think the only author I’ve read that even comes close in those categories is Ian Banks

Definitely can recommend his Culture stuff if you’ve never read it

[faint sparrow]

Anyone know how to configure the light gun in the new unstable core? I can’t get the calibration menu to appear when I press f10

[pine bobcat]

Clarification, it's 5ms wired latency only for the m30 bluetooth controller
For the other 2 m30 models (DB9 and 2.4Ghz), it's lower at 1ms

I bought the 2.4ghz version specifically for that reason, as I always play wired.

[errant crown]

While people are talking about Saturn controllers here, I thought I’d share mine again: The SBOM Joycard. Hudson made this controller to coincide with the release of Saturn Bomberman. Cool design, buttons feel great, and every button has a turbo switch.

[celest lake]

that’s incredible

[errant crown]

When I bought my Saturn 6 years ago, I also bought one of these. It’s been my primary Saturn controller ever since I started playing Saturn.

The now-defunct channel Saturnology made a great overview of the controller a while ago. https://youtu.be/2Q78_mKohHA?si=v8IDubObj3nVubNy

That’s what sold me on getting one.

[proper prism]

I was playing Dracula X early this morning and noticed some odd palettes in the floating catacombs.

Is this normal?

It's been so long since I've last played any form of SotN that I don't remember.
I'm playing this patch, by the way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyQ9Fcajy7k

[pearl harbor]

Isn't that menu only for USB IR based guns like the Guncon 3?

[tiny flare]

It is used to calibrate GunCon2 over USB also, otherwise yep

For now on Saturn you can only use an original Virtua Gun via SNAC, so that menu won’t do anything just yet

Which also means the only way to calibrate you gun is via whatever in game menu

[faint sparrow]

Hmmmm I’m using virtua gun

I guess there’s always the possibility my virtua gun is broken

But I have to think there’s something I’m doing wrong

Should it be in port one on the snac?

Or a different one?

[tiny flare]

Which SNAC adaptor are you using specifically, SNAX specifically won’t work unless you literally bought it yesterday

(Slight exaggeration, but still, very recent development)

[gloomy hedge]

I'm not gonna lie I'm in a similar boat 😂

[gloomy hedge]

Yeah I couldn't find that in the results unfortunately

I have both and I also use the 2.4ghz

I use the Bluetooth for switch

[pine bobcat]

You can see it in the first image you posted here:
#1046941029296779344 message

[gloomy hedge]

I have both

[gloomy hedge]

Where?

I don't see the 2.4ghz wired

[pine bobcat]

Look at M30 (Genesis DE9) and M30 (Genesis Mini and Switch)

Wired USB entries

[gloomy hedge]

Ohhhhh the second one from the bottom

They just need to call that one 2.4 ghz on the left lol

Spot on sorry about that

Great call out

I thought maybe that was a different model

[pine bobcat]

Yeah, under "connection" it shows 2.4Ghz, but I agree it should be added to the name in that chart to make it more obvious

[gloomy hedge]

Yeah all good I didn't look deeply

[pine bobcat]

Bonus for you, since you have that model 🙂

[gloomy hedge]

But it is interesting you CAN feel the difference when it adds up

Yeah I use the 2.4ghz for mister and pc

And the other one the Bluetooth one is by my bed for switch nighttime gaming

[pine bobcat]

do you have the white m30?

[gloomy hedge]

Yeah both of mine are the same exact colors

[pine bobcat]

Mine is really cream coloured, quite different from the white of the Saturn

I'm wondering if I got an off batch

Because the m30 always looks whiter in pictures online compared with mine

[gloomy hedge]

Yeah cream

[pine bobcat]

ok, good to know
wish it was a bit whiter
I feel like I want to retrobrite it

[gloomy hedge]

It's 100% a different color than the Japanese saturn

[pine bobcat]

Yeah, the pics are a bit deceiving as that's what I was picturing when I bought it

[gloomy hedge]

I'm not worried too much about it myself but I understand everyone has their own preferences, I wish they made one in the clear slate grey like retrobit. I dig that

[pine bobcat]

Yeah, thats my favourite as well

I have this one from my V-Saturn which I also like

[tiny flare]

A V Saturn or a transparent “this is cool” variant of the m30 would be, well, cool

Mine looks pretty close to my white controller, although it’s probably at least a little yellowed, hard to tell on the crappy light I had when I took that photo a while back…

[pine bobcat]

Yeah, a bit hard to tell with the lighting there

[errant crown]

Looks pretty similar. The M30 is just less glossy.

[pine bobcat]

An easy way to compare is to look at the white sticker on the back

[tiny flare]

The matte-ness is definitely not a bad thing at least

[errant crown]

I like matte controllers

[pine bobcat]

You can see the difference here

The sticker is pure white

I have a Dreamcast that has turned cream, and the colour almost matches exactly

[errant crown]

Creamcast

[pine bobcat]

Yes, that's my nickname for it

[tiny flare]

Seems to be a pretty common issue with retro themed plastic, people seem to end up basing their colour choices on aged plastic without realising it

See the “white” Analogue Duo

[pine bobcat]

Ha, I'd only seen the black but just checked the white and yeah, same effect

[barren ice]

Damn, no wonder i like the m30 ... 1 ms lag?

[pine bobcat]

which is not surprising as 8bit do and Analogue are the same company

[barren ice]

Yeah, I got the 2.4gh version

Best controller maybe ever?

[errant crown]

Wait what

[barren ice]

I just love it. Though I guess I do use the Xbox One (newer version) quite a bit

[errant crown]

I never knew this

[pine bobcat]

Yep

[barren ice]

I did not see there was an indication they were the same company, or run by the same individuals, just had collabs.

[pine bobcat]

Chris Taber is Analogue's CEO and also the CMO of 8bitdo

I suppose to be more accurate I should say "extremely closely related companies" vs "same company"

[barren ice]

Oh yeah, well, that's definitely a valid point

CMO.. interesting!

Yeah, didn't know that... but very interesting how much Chris Taber has sort of participated in the retro game scene. He's done pretty well I'd say...

[pine bobcat]

He gets hate because he is pretty hyperbolic in his statements, but Analogue and 8bitdo both sell well so he gets the results, I guess

[tiny flare]

Credit where it’s due, the Pocket is a pretty nice device

[pine bobcat]

I'm always tempted to pick one up, but I'd really only use it for GB/GBC/GBA and I'm already well covered there with real devices

I prefer playing arcade & console games on a TV

[barren ice]

I think the Analogue products are really cool homages.

I sold all of mine, except the Pocket, cuz I am more of a function over looks type

But I appreciate the work he's done.

[pine bobcat]

Yeah their ID is nice, would be interested to see their take on a MiSTer case

[proper prism]

I've had my MiSTer for about a month now, and so far, MiSTer wins over Analogue in everything except for maybe the Mega Sg.

[errant crown]

Curious, what advantages do you think the Mega Sg has?

I used to have one, and I personally prefer playing Genesis/Sega CD on the MiSTer.

[proper prism]

Audio options alone make it better.

[errant crown]

Right, I remember it having a shit ton of options to tinker with, like ladder effect

[proper prism]

You can't tweak the audio on MiSTer the way you can on the Mega Sg.

[errant crown]

Personally for me, though, I’m fine with just selecting the Yamaha YM2612 and calling it a day, so that stuff doesn’t matter to me.

[proper prism]

The Genesis has very distinct sound. Audio is a really big issue for me. I really like being able to dial it in and get the specific sound I'm looking for.

I'm not trying to say anything bad about the Genesis core. It's a great core.

[errant crown]

Yeah, I wasn’t implying you were. It is really cool for the super Genesis audiophile to be able to dial in those things.

But, after I got a MiSTer, that aspect alone just wasn’t worth it for me to keep the Mega Sg around.

I forgot, what does the ladder effect even do lol

That’s the only term I remember from that menu

[proper prism]

I think the Mega Sg will be the only one I keep around.

[proper prism]

It's weird to describe. I'd have to give you two different audio samples.

[barren ice]

Agree

I like having a more minimalist setup

Zimba 3000 anyone remember that?

[proper prism]

I've never had one of those but I remember hearing about it.

[cursive tree]

I keep it around just for Paprium

[green swift]

Updating Main fixed the Die Hard issue for me. Thanks Zet-sensei and shig.

This core is looking great. I think I can pack away my Saturn now. 🙂

[polar mountain]

The minute srg320 announced he was working on this core I drop kicked my saturn off the roof of a skyscraper.

[twin canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/drinking-wine-wine-country-wine-dance-gif-15085091

[gloomy hedge]

@mortal mist asked me to test some tomb raider

not sure what im lookin for but

will post clip shortly for testing purposes

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/196

fuck it would have helped if I looked at the fucking issue

real saturn + fenrir + retrotink5x (tomb raider USA)

[errant crown]

LMAO that’s right

That cartridge has some special chip on it.

I don’t think even any emulators can play it, except I hear MAME.

[serene thunder]

https://youtu.be/1i70FVIqXCg

[high bramble]

Limited Edition Paprium Banana Hammock...
Ooookay.

[serene thunder]

Very Collectible

[forest rivet]

That's how it looks on real hardware

[severe whale]

what's the reason Paprium doesn't work on the Mega Drive core? proprietary chipset or something?

[errant crown]

There’s a special chip in the cartridge.

Think something like the SuperFX or SA-1 chip.

[severe whale]

I see. 😦

[errant crown]

Theoretically, the person who made the core could add support for it, but a chip just for one game probably wouldn’t be worth it.

[severe whale]

yeah thats understandable

I was surprised to see that Final Fight MD works. I thought it would use some special chip or similiar

[errant crown]

The FXPak Pro, the best flash cart for the Super Nintendo, has support for all chips except a chip that was only used in some obscure Japan-exclusive Shogi game. All the chip is used for is controlling the advanced AI in the competitors.

I hear allegedly, you can get Paprium working on MAME.

[severe whale]

oh really 😮

there is a japanese F1 game with some weird chip. i forgot the name

[errant crown]

Virtua Racing had some proprietary chip on the Genesis. There’s no way that game could’ve run without some help lol.

[tiny flare]

The SVP, another vector math coprocessor as I understand it

[quiet crown]

Is there anyone else getting no signal on booting the core on a mister pi with the current stable? It might just be a weird quirk with my setup because unstable works and it works fine at resolutions below the one I'm currently using (2048x1536).

[upper dust]

MiSTer was really designed to max output 1080p. Anything higher is liable to break

[severe whale]

unless you upscale via something like RT4K?

[visual grove]

Yeah it’s a chip lottery at 1440p

I’m a tubeman so not really something I care about but my DE10s were fine at that res on my TVs and monitors

But I’ve read it’s a chip lottery anyway

[severe whale]

i've had my mister for like 4 years. I've never had it connected to anything but a CRT

[visual grove]

Nice yeah I like to mess around with everything so I’ve used the hdmi output. Plus I’ve brought mister to places with no CRTs. But when I play the games it’s almost always on a CRT since big flat screens will never be nostalgic for me

[ancient surge]

If you want higher resolutions, you should invest in an external scaler. Morph 4K is cheaper, but RetroTink 4K is a lot more robust with features.

[quiet crown]

It's purely because of the large input lag on my display at 1080p and below (26ms vs like 40ms). I'm still deciding what I'm happy with putting up with

Fair points though

[sudden tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/the-super-mario-bros-movie-brothers-fist-bump-bros-mario-gif-27456115

[sudden tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-what-im-talking-about-kevin-malone-brian-baumgartner-phyllis-lapin-phyllis-smith-gif-16115118

[sudden tusk]

I ain’t spending no money on no retrotwink! When I got hella crts in excellent condition ready to roll!

[visual grove]

Yeah, why settle, you deserve the best

[small gust]

Have have owned a mister for a year almost and I have never connected it to my PVM 20M2-MDE...

because I made the dumb choice to get the digital IO board instead of the analog one, and even though I have bought what should be a compatible hdmi to VGA adapter for direct mode, I haven't gotten around to buy a VGA to SCART cable yet.

But I know... Shame on me.

[tawdry lion]

Toshiba CRT right?

[visual grove]

I love Toshibas

[tawdry lion]

https://tenor.com/view/lex-luthor-wrong-superman-pwned-youre-wrong-gif-17416897

Idk I'm happy with my Trinitron :3

[visual grove]

They made the best tubes in my favorite arcade monitors

[tawdry lion]

I'm just joking based on how much I hear they have trouble with the guncon lol

[visual grove]

Oh no kidding?

[small gust]

The Toshiba Nanao MS9 in my egret 2 is fantastic 🙂

[visual grove]

Yeah MS9 is probably my favorite chassis

[tawdry lion]

I've heard the guncon 1 struggles on them at times..

Not sure which ones but it's a thing

[visual grove]

Weird, wonder why, I have a pretty curved Toshiba consumer in my main setup works great with dual guncons

For say point blank

Though I’ve got it and a Sony sitting next to each other so usually each person shoots at their own tube for convenience

I don’t think the Sony registers shots any more or less accurately in my experience

[tawdry lion]

Can't seem to find the post. Looks like the user left the server and deleted messages? Idk. There's a remnant of a conversation mentioning Toshiba but it's one sided

[visual grove]

Probably had a dim tube or something

Bad dynamic convergence, weird other lighting interfering etc

Whatever specific to his Toshiba not all Toshiba

[severe whale]

Man I feel the pain 😢

[tawdry lion]

It was the person assisting someone else that said it.

It would seem it's due to a rumor going around that flat glass CRT's do not work as well with Guncons but this seems to be incorrect now that I'm delving into it, so nevermind xD

[visual grove]

Oh yeah that’s an old one. I only had one pure flat tube in a gun setup for a while but it seemed to work fine and I never got why people said they don’t work

Though I only have two pure flat tubes left and I don’t play gun games on either so it’s been a while

My guess is flat tubes bled into the HD CRT era

Even for 4:3 tubes

[tawdry lion]

maybe

[visual grove]

And that probably made people think flat was the problem

[trim nimbus]

Yeah, just anecdotal but I had a 27” trinitron I had paired with my psx, and I never had any problems with time crisis 1 and the included guncon.

This is the first time I have ever heard of the flat tube problem.

[tiny flare]

The only tube I’ve had issues on is my PVM with the corners, probably due to the smaller size, never had problems on my old flat Phillips

[naive whale]

It’s rare but it can happen

It’s more common in arcade boards as those almost never used flat glass and the gun lenses are more accommodating of the curvature at the corners

So you can get a little shit aim at the corners BUT honestly devs really never made required shots at the edges knowing that calibration could be tricky towards the borders. Little QOL design thing

Same way every shotgun lightgun game with a pull pump to reload mechanic will also reload by pointing off screen in case the pump microswitch goes bad. Always planning for the most common faults

[trim nimbus]

yeah, not discounting the possibility, just stating one datapoint of someone with a guncon 1 and a trinitron not experiencing issues (to my knowledge)

[naive whale]

Oh for sure

[green swift]

I have a few flat tubes that have issues with light guns. Not all light guns though and not all games. I have two Sony Wegas that don’t register the right side of the screen with guncons, same with Panasonic Tau. Except the tau always tracks to the right of the sight.

Dreamcast guns work fine.

Guncon 2 on PS2 also don’t work on the right side of the Wegas.

I figured maybe there’s some kind of processing going on.

I’ve tried both Component and composite in case Component was going through an extra circuit.

[trim nimbus]

pretty sure I was using svideo

or could I? Now I am trying to remember, that was a long time ago…the guncon 1 needed a pass through of composite didn’t it?

[tiny flare]

yeah it needs a composite sync signal

but you can get that from green on your ypbpr component cable also

or sync out on a PVM, which is what I use

[trim nimbus]

nah, I didn’t do any cable mangling, I would have just used composite, just been a heck of a long time

[errant crown]

My Dreamcast gun works mostly fine on my VGA CRT monitor, but it will occasinally just miss a shot that I know should have hit. I also can’t get it to work with any Atomiswave gun games.

[tiny flare]

have you done a trigger mod? I find the DC gun trigger switch itself to be particularly bad for missed actuations

[errant crown]

Wasn’t aware of it

May do it at some point

[thorn pagoda]

dreamcast is the fussiest gun for brightness/contrast in my experience

might be that

[tiny flare]

Yeah for sure, it’s always given me problems on any monitor I’ve tried…

[clear condor]

But it's also one of the only CRT guns that can read both 15 kHz and 31 kHz screens! (I think maybe the OG Xbox one can too, but I'm not sure)

[tiny flare]

I actually never knew that, I’ve only ever tried it on 15khz displays. Something fun to mess with in future I guess

[severe whale]

Oh that’s a bummer. Planning to mod my Dreamcast to play those atomiswave games

[sudden tusk]

There’s still a lot of atomis wave stuff that doesn’t require the gun ..

[untold lintel]

even with component you dont have to do any cable mangling. You just pass through on the Green plug instead of the Yellow Composite video one

[trim nimbus]

My trinitron didn’t have component input

[noble escarp]

Confidential Mission on DC works for you? The calibration screen never worked for me. On any CRT I've tested. Even on VGA monitors.

[thorn pagoda]

it works on my pvm

[gloomy hedge]

@mortal mist

[mortal mist]

merci!

[alpine pagoda]

I have problems with the confidential mission calibration screen too, usually have to put the gun right up against the corner of the screen and spam the trigger until it responds. It’s mostly fine after that though. Way less accurate than a guncon, but still a good time.

[tiny flare]

Yeah same for me

[noble escarp]

The game's calibration screen?

[polar mountain]

Bug report: in nba jam extreme the ball is a pink triangle.

[errant crown]

I have some .bup files from my Saturn with multiple save files for the same game. Since each game file is a separate .bup file, when I convert it to a raw save, is there a way to merge files from the save game, since on the core, the entire game is saved with a singular .sav file?

The files look like this, but there's gotta be a way to merge them, right?

[sudden tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/elvis-presley-concert-king-fly-gif-852688518591375921

[green swift]

Reticle is jittery but it seems to play fine

[noble escarp]

Interesting!
Mine wont trigger the bottom right part of the screen

And I've tested 3 DC lightguns on at least 2 consoles and a bunch of tvs

[green swift]

It seems more touchy in the bottom right. It took an extra click. Prior to making that clip I did a calibration and the bottom right took 3 trigger pulls.

probably becasue the reticle is jumping around a bit? That's my guess.

Bums me out that Guncons don't work well though

[noble escarp]

I do have a JP gun that jumps exactly like yours. But it's perfectly fine during gameplay

[green swift]

Yeah, this was one of the NTSC modded for JP gun images.

Not sure if it

is becasue of that combo

[noble escarp]

My USA gun have a steady crosshair

[green swift]

Well that's really weird then. Must not be the cursor jumping around theory then

[noble escarp]

Not sure if I tested this patched version of the game. Gonna try it tomorrow!

[green swift]

Hope it fixes it for you

[noble escarp]

The game works fine without calibration. But on my set, the shots hits a bit to the right. Would be better if the calibration works

[green swift]

That's how Guncon games are for me. :/

[noble escarp]

Guncons here works wonderfully well!

[green swift]

Lucky! I'll have to break them out and try again. Feel like I tried all the combos and removed everything from the signal chain, but maybe I missed something.

[clear condor]

The inconsistencies of CRT guns are super weird. It feels like it's more complex somehow than just "is your screen bright"

[errant crown]

Light guns have a history in general for being very picky. My PVM works great with both my Virtua Gun and my Guncon. However, my PVM is so worn now, it takes half an hour to fully warm up now. It’s just a complete blur until then.

I should pick up a Sinden sometime soon…

[green swift]

I have a Sinden but it isn't quite at that Lazy-man, turnkey point at which I'm willing to use it.

There is a lot of setup I can't be bothered to do

[errant crown]

Lazy man turnkey?

[clear condor]

The Sinden can also be picky! It loves to assume your window is the TV

but when you get a nice environment for it, it's solid

[green swift]

lazy man, turnkey = I'm lazy and just want to plug it in and have it work without configuring anything or adjusting mouse speeds or any of that stuff.

[errant crown]

Curious, does the Sinden work with scaler scanline filters, like on a RetroTink, or the MiSTer’s built-in stuff?

Or does everything need to be raw pixels to work?

[tiny flare]

this is the appeal of using MiSTer on a CRT in general for me, it just works ™️ without faffing around with settings and upscalers and all of that nonsense

well, aside from getting your video settings right to start with 😄

[green swift]

Provided you have a CRT that is cooperative with light guns.

Tried Guncon on MiSTer and real hardware. Both GC1 and 2 and my TV hates them.

[polar mountain]

It's driven me mad. I have a guncon 2 that works perfectly with ps2 but not with mister. Also just got a virtua gun and saturn snac and it only registers shots on the top half of the screen! WHY!??!

[burnt matrix]

Because you sin

I mean I don’t know

[polar mountain]

Why doesn't this 40 year old tech that I bought off some guy on the street work perfectly!! WHY!!?!?

[green swift]

Wish I had a retro hardware street dealer. Mine just have drugs. :/

[acoustic sable]

drugs are cheaper though

[visual grove]

Hmm maybe a mister problem if it works fine with PS2 w/ that tv?

Implies the gun is working fine and the tube isn’t too dim anyway

[thorn pagoda]

it could be the lightguns degrading (caps, plastics used in lenses/sensors yellowing) or the tube dimming

or both

i don't remember having to crank brightness on my crts back in 1999 to get dreamcast guns working

[visual grove]

yeah in his case though the gun and the tube work fine for PS2. Yeah all my tubes I've tried guns with work fine without adjustment but I've heard of people having to increase brightness before

[dark cloud]

same boat here, but the virtua gun doesn’t register shots. For the GC2, I wonder if tweaking the calibration file would help. Mine is fine in the center, but at about 12” out it starts reaching for the corners on the PSX core (this is on a 36” curved tube). My GunCon1 on snac doesn’t have the same issue.

PS2 really is king when it comes to those GunCon2 games. I have two linked with iLink and LAN for Time Crisis 2, Vampire Night, etc.

[inner token]

are you using snax?

[inner token]

is the top half of the screen of that game brighter like a sky or something?

[shell musk]

Question, how is complete saturn core to your advice?

[kind bough]

'most games run great' %

[gloomy hedge]

'completely in progress'

[ancient surge]

Somewhere between Mednafan and official hardware.

Most games should run like intended, but still expect some miscellaneous bugs.

[polar mountain]

I think that there may be some sort of goldilocks zone of conditions between the crt and MiSTer where the guncon 2 works fine

[polar mountain]

There can be be a problem with virtua guns where the little motherboard with the sensor drops down out of place over time. Have you tried the thing where you take the shell apart keeping it on its side and adjusting the mobo while firing at the screen

[polar mountain]

No it doesn't seem to be related to dark or bright areas.

It's such a weirdly specific problem

Perfectly accurate but stops registering exactly half way down the screen.

[inner token]

is that on every game or just a certain one?

[polar mountain]

Every game

[pearl harbor]

What're ya buy'n? (opens trench coat exposing his...||lightguns||!)

[trim nimbus]

hmm, what are the chances the new 8bitdo n64 controller will support dual analog triggers…if so might finally be a reasonable saturn analog controller replacement for the mister

[flat sedge]

For me personally it is so good that I sell my real hardware

[dark cloud]

Snac for the Stunner. Snax64 for the GC45.

[dark cloud]

Hmmm I’ll give that a shot when I have some time. I had no idea they had issues like that, but i haven’t used one in probably 20 years.

[polar mountain]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SegaSaturn/comments/15v2rth/potential_quick_fix_for_virtua_gun_shooting_issues/

[tawny compass]

The PSX core has a texture filtering option, and when turned on the games look kinda like when playing a PSX game on a PS2. That's what I was talking about.

[errant crown]

OK, I finally figured it out. If you have multiple .BUP files for a single game, use this https://github.com/hitomi2500/ss-save-parser/releases

Make sure the cluster size is 64

Select Insert, and select your BUP's

Click Save, and then name your file exactly the name of the game, ending with .sav

You can also do this for games that have an added bonus if a save file for another game is present in the Saturn's memory

And of course, you can do this with just one .BUP file

This is essential for games like NiGHTS, which have a separate file for saved games and for high scores.

There really isn't much documentation for this program online, and I couldn't find solid instructions anywhere, so I had to figure this out by trial and error.

[polar mountain]

This turned out to be the reason for my virtua gun problem. The diode had become misaligned over time due to warping as described in this post.

[kindred peak]

Interesting. I have a bunch of them rotting in a tub. I should check them out.

[polar mountain]

Rotting lightguns would be be perfect for House o' the Dead!

[errant crown]

Virtua Gun + Shuttle Mouse is THE way to play Policenauts

[paper tiger]

i friggin need to find my saturn light gun

gotta be in some box

[errant crown]

I’m really curious if 8BitDo/Retrobit/Retro Fighters will ever come out with a Saturn 3D Pad recreation. I seriously think it’s a super underrated controller, I love the unique way the analog stick feels. To be completely honest, it’s the only way I can play NiGHTS. You can tell the stick design was made for that game. Flying in circles feels effortless.

Also, analog triggers before even the Dreamcast had them! Especially cool for racing games, where you get analog gas and brake.

[hearty marten]

Maybe if Analogue release a Saturn console

Although the 3D pad might be a bit niche

[errant crown]

Yeah, true. I just hope someone makes one down the line.

[hearty marten]

Me too 😔

[trim nimbus]

If the new 8bitdo n64 controller has separately addressable analog triggers it might be a good replacement?

[wise brook]

yes i would say so

[hearty marten]

Why would it? I thought the trigger was digital on the N64?

[leaden dagger]

It's also a pc controller

[hearty marten]

Ah, nice. I had assumed it would just be digital

[leaden dagger]

I've yet to see the triggers but basically everything 8bit do makes in that form factor has analog triggers

[tiny flare]

The BT 8bitdo Ultimate C doesn’t, it has digital triggers due to being designed for Switch (confusingly there is a 2.4ghz USB dongle version that does have analogue triggers, as it’s more designed for PC)

[gloomy hedge]

and that same one you mentioned with analogue triggers still works on switch

[tiny flare]

Yeah, it’s all very odd…

[gloomy hedge]

I just got one for

reasons

(this is my first switch pro controller type thing, otherwise I was just 8bitdo m30 and /or just using it in handheld mode)

for $50 this is a decent pad but I think the dpad is meh

but analog triggers, it do have ( just not on switch )

also very comfortable

[tiny flare]

Oh that’s not the Ultimate C though, that’s an Ultimate not-C right?

[gloomy hedge]

no idea what this is

yeah just an Ultimate

the dock is genius

the whole kit is highly better than I expcted for $50

triggers properly concave as well

not convex like the psychos over at sony did for way too many fucking years

(anyways sorry ,carry on lol)

[tiny flare]

I was thinking of this one which is different again, thanks 8bitdo for your totally not confusing naming schemes: https://www.8bitdo.com/ultimate-c-2.4g-wireless-controller/

[gloomy hedge]

yeah like I dont even know what THAT is

https://www.8bitdo.com/64-controller/ then there's this one coming out

[tiny flare]

As different again to this one: https://www.8bitdo.com/ultimate-c-bluetooth-controller/

[gloomy hedge]

https://www.8bitdo.com/ultimate-3-mode-controller-xbox/ and this

lmao

also salty I didnt get the 10th anniversary I didnt know it existed

[rich violet]

I want this to be real: https://www.reddit.com/r/8bitdo/comments/phzq8h/lazy_edit_of_my_ideal_8bitdo_controller/

[tiny flare]

I 8bitdo’nt

[gloomy hedge]

yeah same as soon as you add analog nubs to my retro controllers they go directly into trash

there's retro controllers, with proper comfort, and then theres analog stick controllers with proper comfort

[gloomy hedge]

somebod at me?

[errant crown]

Oh it was me, I was just talking about the Ultimate Controller, but I didn’t get my point across.

I guess what I was trying to say was, the version you have is the better one because it has back buttons.

I don’t like how the C version got rid of them.

[gloomy hedge]

oh yeah the paddles are actually decent

good placement and feel

[errant crown]

That honestly looks cursed

[gloomy hedge]

Just looks like an 8bitdo variant of the already cursed retrobit

[errant crown]

Which Retrobit? Is there one with sticks?!?!

[gloomy hedge]

Yes

[burnt matrix]

Analog triggers for playing N64 games isn’t great imo. Sure you’ll get used to it but the triggers have too much give.

[burnt matrix]

Honestly, the PS3 controller was the first controller I purchased that felt broken out of the box. Convex triggers are horrible, I had to buy an attachment to fix them.

[twin canyon]

i put kontrolfreek CONVEX thumbz on my controllers because i hate concave

now that you've revealed yourself a conCAVE enjoyer, we have to part ways

[burnt matrix]

they make great shmups

[twin canyon]

you listen here you

nobody talks about the fact that the first sixaxis came with hall effect joysticks

[high bramble]

I didn't mind the original PlayStation controller because it was new, different, and exciting. But ever since they added the analog sticks all the way through to the PlayStation 3... wow. They all just felt like cheap Fisher Price crap.
I love symmetrical analog sticks, especially on the DualShock 4 and DualSense, but I never could stand how close they were to each other on the previous controllers. Move the sticks towards each other and my thumbs would touch. Far too cramped.

They kept that original DualShock shape for far too long.

[burnt matrix]

My view right now

[high bramble]

I bet you can see the Universal logo from there!

[twin canyon]

still no monkeypark

what a scam. scam citizen.

[burnt matrix]

Yeah, I disliked DS2 and DS3 a lot. Happy with the ergonomic improvements of the DS4 and the evolution of the DS5 plus the haptics.

[burnt matrix]

I posted monkey park videos days ago lol.

[high bramble]

He even spanked a few...

[gloomy hedge]

Preach

[errant crown]

DS2 is my favorite Sony controller

[twin canyon]

i didn't say i like that controller. i think it's one of the worst but it's pretty cool they shipped a few with hall effect. but then i read they did that with the dreamcast or something so maybe it's not so special

[errant crown]

Dreamcast had hall effect

[twin canyon]

among controllers with grips, i put ds4 on top. it's still my primary

[errant crown]

Saturn 3D Pad did too IIRC

[pearl harbor]

I always forget that the DS2 actually had analog face buttons. Hardly any games used them though. I know the Metal Gear games did.

[burnt matrix]

It’s an idea that sounds cool on paper but bad in execution. There’s not much ability to offer range with a button so you effectively only get three or four states of pressure.

[errant crown]

Yeah, I agree. Even with racing games, you can’t get as precise as, say, the triggers on the OG XBox.

I actually prefer playing the XBox One versions of MGS 2 and 3. The pressure-sensitive functions on PS2 and PS3 can make you screw things up in the heat of the moment. For example, on PS3, playing MGS3, I would often almost kill a guard instead of putting him in a chokehold, because I accidentally pressed too hard.

[twin canyon]

doom eternal

[burnt matrix]

Exactly

[dusty shale]

The fact that this controller didn't work with NiGHTS, the de facto analog control Saturn game, on launch is immensely funny to me.

They fell over at the most important hurdle.

[serene thunder]

SEGA soiled the cradle many times when dealing with their western products

Still my fave consoles

[river wing]

I have this one, but stupidly it won't let me map L1, R1, L2 and R2 as separate buttons, I believe some of them overlap or something.

[gloomy hedge]

Btw - this one has hall effect 🙂

[burnt matrix]

Drift issues are so bad that everyone knows what hall effect is now lol

[hearty marten]

ur a hall effect

[tiny marsh]

i have all 8bitdo controllers and ps5 xbox etc.. but this ultimate c 2.4g is the one i use every day for many many months for many many hours per day... works almost everywhere...i even play diablo 4 with it.. ofc i use it on my mister too. go for it.. cheap and really good..and instant connection ofc with the dongle

[burnt matrix]

Damn that good?

[gloomy hedge]

unless you like dpads

other than that, it is real good

[burnt matrix]

Oh lol, I love dpads

[gloomy hedge]

for everythign non dpad related im really likign this controller

[gloomy hedge]

yeah then rip

dpad aint nothin, saturn dpad, m30, etc. would destroy it, even a snes or NES dpad would destroy it

its a "modern" good dpad for games where a dpad is basically a button anyways

still a good controller for that style of controller, prob one of the best, and I think easily the best one if you are into switch

[celest lake]

I want to pick one up for my switch

going to wait until they are on sale again

[gloomy hedge]

oh shit you prob just missed the sale, I got one for $50 lets see

[celest lake]

I think they are like 58 right now

[gloomy hedge]

https://a.co/d/hu5YgfT yeah lol thats so funny

[celest lake]

I'll wait until black friday or whatever

[gloomy hedge]

I mean its underpriced regardless but im chuffed with my $50 purchase

given it comes with a pretty nice and solid dock, and the ability to change between 2.5 and BT, PLUS hall effect for that price is a steal.

[celest lake]

Oh the white one is even better

53.99 with coupon

snagged it

[gloomy hedge]

that was actually a tough decision but I looked at where my dock was gonna be and a white dock would stick out so I went with black haha

[gloomy hedge]

I await your review

[unkempt oar]

Do we already know the latency when used with MiSTer?

[gloomy hedge]

I dont use mine with a mister cuz M30 but I should try it, with the dongle I bet its pretty godlike

I dont know if its the same

but the middle one here is the 2.4 dongle

thats very very good for a wireless controller imo

basically lagless if you ask me

https://www.8bitdo.com/ultimate-2c-wireless-controller/ that is this one

which is pretty much the same inside

but im not sure

[ionic gate]

The UItimate 2C's D-Pad is not a retro gaming D-Pad 😛

[gloomy hedge]

yeah not even close

[errant crown]

Yeah, as someone who has a regular Ultimate, the D-Pad often will press up or down when you go left or right. It’s serviceable for retro gaming, but not ideal. M30 is wayyy better for that purpose.

[gloomy hedge]

you're so kind

the dpad is trash

• me

[errant crown]

I mean, I prefer the D-Pad over the D-Pad on the Switch Pro

Since that controller doesn’t have a pivot

[gloomy hedge]

I didnt get the switch pro cuz it didnt look good and the input lag tests werent great on it either

if its worse than this, it must really be unusable garbage

[errant crown]

It got the Switch Pro because at the time (launch), it really was the best controller for the Switch. Now, there are much better options.

[paper tiger]

like what

[errant crown]

https://www.mobapad.com/products/mobapad-m6-hd?srsltid=AfmBOoqigtt4pkAAu_YFF7WW8iVCHhV9ynAyvrtdWl2tVJYZMpnVa1kM

[bitter vector]

I hear these are great at first but those I've spoken with who own them say after medium play sessions the hand cramps are pretty bad.

[acoustic sable]

Like the originals then

[bitter vector]

Yes. So no worse, but also no better.

[high bramble]

I endured the NES game pad in the '80s. Bring it on!

[solemn grove]

i absolutely refuse to believe those satellite dish "d-pads" are remotely okay

[untold spear]

im really liking the 8bitdo m30 for this

[soft goblet]

Yep, the M30 is perfect for Saturn and MD/SCD/32X gaming

[high bramble]

The only thing that would make me happier with the M30 is if the X, Y, and Z buttons were the same size and shape as the A, B, and C buttons.

[hearty marten]

Yeah, that’s the only problem I have with it 😔

[soft goblet]

That'd differ from the original style, though. I personally like it, never had an issue with it

[hearty marten]

Back in the day the only 6-button controller I had was a third party one, which had the buttons the same size. It was actually a really good controller, rather than some cheap feeling crap

[high bramble]

They've made plenty of controllers that differ from the originals yet retain enough to make them easily identifiable as to what they were based on and what system they drew inspiration from. Changing those 3 buttons wouldn't have made it look that alien from the original.
Granted, not many games took advantage of those buttons back then, so maybe it wasn't a high priority.

HORI got it right though...

One of my all-time favorite game pads.

[hearty marten]

https://live.staticflickr.com/5255/5525420013_ec35fb347c_b.jpg

that’s the 6 button I had back in the day 🙂

[high bramble]

Oh yeah, I forgot about those.

[burnt matrix]

Yeah that looks awesome

I really like the M30, sometimes I get lazy and I just use it for every core, including the N64 and PS1 lol

[clear condor]

I was playing Mario 64 with it earlier, hah

it worked surprisingly well!

[burnt matrix]

Dude so, why does Mario 64 work so well with a dpad on MiSTer but sucked on the DS?

[clear condor]

My personal take is to blame that weird "suddenly run" control they added

and to say that really, they wanted you to thumb around on the touchscreen instead, since the DS touchscreen was new and shiny at the time

You're not getting the drop on any Piranha Plants today, though.

[ivory kindle]

since we can't search in these discussion rooms, has anyone compared the saturn core number of input lag frames as compared to emulators like mednafen?

[gloomy hedge]

I have measured it against beetle a while back for cotton 2

saturn core is faithful to a real saturn, mednafen seems to add 2-3 frames on top of that depending on the measurement and game

for Cotton 2 I think I recall 4 frames on MisTER with my LCD - but I'd have to check my data

[ivory kindle]

that was always my experience as well, I know some games had 6-7 frames built in

[gloomy hedge]

for Mednafen - same LCD same everything except its a computer - I was looking at like 8 frames or something so nevermind MORE than 3

tbh I wasnt spending much time on the mednafen measurements

I was spending more time on the saturn core, but this was a LONG time ago, I dont know if the core has changed since then tbh

just found my video for cotton, I would give it 4-5 frames on my LCD

the way I calculated was to use an LED backlit keyboard, and measure the LIT LED vs the screen movement

60fps camera

(Cotton 2)

Mednafen, cotton 2 is unplayable for me tbh

[burnt matrix]

In my highly accurate testing, Mednefen felt “laggy” but still pretty acceptable for software emulation and MiSTer felt “responsive”.

[ivory kindle]

yeah I mean all software emulation for saturn always felt a little laggy

duke3d on saturn I think has like 9-13 frames of lag on mednafen or beetle

some as part of the game and some in the emulator

[burnt matrix]

I really like Mednefen though, it’s such a great comparative test against the Saturn core. Also runs awesome on my Pi 5.

[gloomy hedge]

Mednafen for any shmup feels like unplayable garbage to me 😛

did I clear batsugun 1-all and blast wind on beetle ? yes

but for blast wind I wanted to play on hard and the input lag was a no go

once I got a real saturn, I did the deed

that game is already laggy as it is

so any little bit on top breaks the camel

[serene thunder]

BLAST WIND

[gloomy hedge]

cotton has these little bits of inertia to some of the movement that makes the whole thing crap on beetle

[burnt matrix]

Maybe when you become a gaming Adonis like me, lag is just minor quibble.

[serene thunder]

Think ahead

[burnt matrix]

My brain performs on run ahead

[gloomy hedge]

yeah true Robby can blast wind better than me

[burnt matrix]

LOLOL

[gloomy hedge]

you can have this one

[burnt matrix]

bro you don’t even know

[gloomy hedge]

expert wind blaster