Sega Saturn

[pearl harbor]

I see srg320 and Robert are colaborating to ensure we must fight it out over Saturn vs N64 testing!

[hearty marten]

Two systems I didn’t own at the time, but only played at friends’ houses. Getting the chance to relive an alternate childhood is so much fun 😄

[tall radish]

Hey out of curiosity is there a way to include the unstable core script in update all ?

[ripe valley]

I've created the issue today, as I can't fix it or find a simple solution on my side.

[mortal mist]

Astal works fine for me 🙂

[ripe valley]

Try to launch Astal (1S) or (2S) directly from the core, without launching anything before.

[mortal mist]

ok will check

[ripe valley]

Pocket Fighter (Japan) could be fixed with the black line of the left part of the screen by adjusting some parameters on the SMPC.

[ripe valley]

I've seen at least 3 users with the issue, I tried it myself and the game refuses to load on these two revisions, only the 3S version could work immediately.

[unkempt kelp]

I've heard you can enable the unstable updater in update_all's options but I haven't tried myself. Maybe @devout dawn knows

[mortal mist]

after 3 resets works (1S)

It does indeed fail to start the first time

[ripe valley]

SMPC bug.

I've updated my internal build and I could boot the game immediately on the 3 revisions.

I've opened and updated some issues, as srg320 seems really active on it.

(I know, I should be off for the rest of the week, but I fear to miss something important to be done on the issue tracker). 😅

[unkempt kelp]

Vacation (self) denied

[tall radish]

thanks i'm gonna check for that today

[ripe valley]

I've created a version with a revert on the SMPC changes since 20240204. The whole INTBACK command (and sub-commands) are from 20240202.
The rest of the core is from today's build (20240214).

Upside : the Capcom games which have regressed are working now as intended (Vampire series, Cyberbots, Pocket Fighter, Tenchi wo Kurau II) + Astal.
Downside : I had to break the support of Primal Rage and Discworld once again. I tried the trick with a WAIT command like last time, but it won't work again.

[naive whale]

No rest lol

[ripe valley]

No fun allowed.

[sudden tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/lord-of-the-rings-ian-mc-kellen-gandalf-prepare-for-battle-prepare-gif-4879285

I’m way behind on core testing .. but fighting vipers is looking solid

No more random slowdown

[tough star]

@sudden tusk you're fired

pack your stuff and leave

[sudden tusk]

But what about my severance package ?

[tough star]

SECURITY!!!

[sudden tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/king-of-the-hill-dale-gribble-pocket-sand-pocket-sand-gif-3699662

[tough star]

@sudden tusk but seriously - there are a lot of JP entries

[sudden tusk]

Most definitely..

Let’s out test those n64 wimps!

[tough star]

a lot probably require the knowledge of the Japanese language

[sudden tusk]

We got phones ! Let’s do this

[ripe valley]

Good luck with the Winning Post games.

[burnt matrix]

Hey look it’s a Sega Saturn soccer game!

⚽

[pine tundra]

Hello guys, i have a problem with my 8bitdo saturn modkit. When i map osd buttons combinaison with start+R, i have not not osd but autofire delay on/off toggle..

If i map start+L buttons, no problem, osd appears...anyone Know where is my problem???
I map correctly my controller..

[analog totem]

@pine tundra do you need autofire? Try turning it off in your ini settings and then try mapping Menu to Start+R again and see it if works

[pine tundra]

@analog totem thanks for the idea, i will test

[naive whale]

Also let’s not mince words. Saturn is the best console here lol

(Runs away to avoid the fight)

[pearl harbor]

You only need to run into the open arms and warm embrace that is the Saturn.

[burnt matrix]

Don't mind me, I'm enjoying an FPS on the Saturn!

[pearl harbor]

Gotta play that Powerslave!

[burnt matrix]

IT'S SO GOOD

[half hornet]

What was the script that you need to run so that the Saturn core doesn't crash the MiSTer when launching it, again? I had to reinstall the MiSTer OS and I forgot what I did previously to prevent the Saturn core from crashing the system

[analog totem]

hmm I’ve never had that issue with the Saturn core…I don’t believe you should have to run anything extra at this point to use the core

[half hornet]

Weird, I know I have all the BIOS files in the right places

[analog totem]

I’m not really sure what you mean by “crashing the system”….in my mind, that means everything freezes…controller stops responding, OSD doesn’t come up when you press the Menu button…is that what happens?

also, the only bios file the core uses by default is boot.rom and that should be in the Saturn folder. Any other bioses would be game specific and named cd-bios.rom and placed inside of the game’s folder that you want to use that bios. Which bios do you have set as boot.rom?

[pearl furnace]

anyone know if there will be some audio upgrades with time?

[ripe valley]

At a later time.

From what I've seen since last month, srg320 is working actively on the VDP, SMPC and SCU chips in priority.
The sound chip will be later.

[half hornet]

Correct, the system becomes totally unresponsive and only shows a black screen when launching the saturn core. My CRT shows no signal during this time, too

[analog totem]

@half hornet analogue io board or direct video? have you checked on an hdmi display to see if it happens there too?

[half hornet]

Analog IO board - on an HDMI display, it shows no signal there either

[analog totem]

ok interesting

what type of ram do you have? specifically, what version is it and where did you purchase it?

[half hornet]

just a single stick of 128MB RAM, and I got it from MiSTerAddons, and it's never caused issues in the past - I'm also certain that I'm using the single-stick-RAM version of the core

[analog totem]

hmmm

do you know the revision version? 2.5 sticks and below have been known to cause issues sometimes (though usually not a complete crashing of the MiSTer)

[half hornet]

I'm not sure, I got it back in like, 2020

[analog totem]

ok so that’s at least a 2.5

if not earlier..?

have you run the memtest core on it to see the results?

well, I got my ram stick from MiSTeraddons in early 2020 and it was 2.5, so I’m betting yours is too

[burnt matrix]

Audio is back to being messed up for me in Powerslave

[analog totem]

ooooh a game I actually know something about…let me check on mine real quick Robby to see if audio’s good for me on that one

[pearl harbor]

"Sounds" like a problem!

[analog totem]

@burnt matrix seems Ok over here…only played through level 1, though

[burnt matrix]

It does a quick loop repeat over and over for me. Starts right at boot up. I wonder if it’s MGL related.

[analog totem]

oh interesting

[burnt matrix]

Nope that had no impact

Neither does changing Cartridge from DRAM 4M to None

[analog totem]

does Powerslave utilize the ram cart?

[burnt matrix]

Nah

Oh well lol, maybe it’ll be back to normal in the next build

[analog totem]

dang

[burnt matrix]

What bios are you using?

[analog totem]

region free US

[burnt matrix]

boot.bin right?

[tough star]

hi-saturn v1.03

[ripe valley]

You could try also with that special build I've done today, just to be sure if it's SMPC related or not.
#1046941029296779344 message

As the chip is also partially responsible on some parts of the sound control and srg320 added some delays on multiple commands these last days.

[burnt matrix]

I missed that, thank you. Unfortunately same issue for me.

Audio is garbled and does a one second sound loop.

Very strange. I tried a buncha things but nothing worked, ah well.

[analog totem]

boot.rom

[ripe valley]

Okay, thanks for the test, as I've seen some move on the SNDON and SNDOFF commands on the SMPC that could be the culprits.

So, it's maybe another bug related to what I've heard on Astal.

[analog totem]

@ripe valley it’s interesting that I didn’t have the sound problem, though 🤔 unless it’s something that can be attributed to variances in ram?

[naive whale]

Oh man and I just said how good it sounded too lol

Regressions happened but I was enjoying the sweet sounds of Powerslave

[burnt matrix]

I think I’m in the minority or likely the only one with that issue

[ripe valley]

I don't have a response at the moment, I'm just trying to understand some parts of the code (very limited from my part).

[analog totem]

oh for sure, I wasn’t expecting one, just pondering out loud

[ripe valley]

Me, the last week when reading the source code of several SW emus and the core.

We should also add a final BUT, WHY?! on that meme.

[ancient surge]

That is the SEGA Saturn special baybee

[ripe valley]

I can reproduce the sound bug on Powerslave with my Dual RAM 2.9 system at least - with the 20240214 core version.

Adjusting a parameter on the SMPC seems to fix the problem on the game.
Normally the two TESTVERSION I've uploaded earlier are working correctly as they have the adjusted value on the INTBACK CNT_WAIT (that same value that breaks once more Discworld and Primal Rage).

If the bug remains after that on some systems, no clue.

[ancient surge]

Nintendo 64, SEGA Saturn, and PS1 are all pretty jank, it's just the PS1 had the advantage of being the least jank.

Like you hear about the convoluted stuff developers did to take advantage of these consoles, and you just think "wow they were barely held together with a hope and prayer."

[quick sorrel]

You mean as far as the ease in making games for the system?

[frail token]

I hope so because arguably PS1 looked the most jank in-game

[edgy hollow]

So is it correct only guns are broken with regards to SNAC?

[pearl harbor]

Not sure if it's only guns, but yes guns don't work yet. I can confirm that the 3D controller works great, including the analog triggers.

[naive whale]

Funny I have a GUN4IR MiSTer vid going out in one minute and I was thinking I hope I can play some Saturn light gun games soon

[analog totem]

does the October release that update_all pulls down require bios to be named boot.rom or boot.bin? I can’t remembere

[mortal mist]

nope

[analog totem]

nope what? It works as boot.rom?

[mortal mist]

boot.rom 🙂

[analog totem]

ok cool

[mortal mist]

this was fixed before the beta core release in update all

[analog totem]

trying to help someone having issues and they’re using the October release…maybe they should use a newer test build…it’s odd because their ram seems fine (sent me memtest screenshots) and they claim they have 2.9 ram (though they did buy from AV)

checking bios next

it’s interesting because when they show me their file list from the Saturn folder as it appears in the OSD, I see “boot” listed which is odd because on mine “boot.rom” does not show in the list. I’m guessing their bios file is named incorrectly

[wet hull]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/commits/main/

Build incoming

[mortal mist]

wow great update !

[trim nimbus]

Hah, who needs a mouse when you can just use a GUN4IR? 😉

[ancient surge]

Oh good, some of the things I reported on are being fixed.

[trim nimbus]

I will say the only real problem I have with those is the fact that it is a boutique product and thus my chances of actually getting one are pretty low

[naive whale]

Lol I got a comment like that. So weird

People confuse me sometimes 🤣

[zinc vine]

Where can I get those sensor

[trim nimbus]

Haha, yeah that is what I was referencing. I have to imagine it is just poor attempts at trolling

[naive whale]

I had a feeling. I don’t get people. Just want to bitch about nothing

[trim nimbus]

“Here is new technology that allows me to enjoy my favorite games in a new way that will drastically increase their lifetime as old hardware dies”

Yeah, but it looks like you have to aim it at the screen! My old zapper would just register when I hit the button and work!

[analog totem]

new build hype intensifying

[naive whale]

No commit notes. A mystery

[frail token]

Another day another build?

[mortal mist]

Unfortunately, but the problem with the flashing image in the NBA Jam menu will return

[naive whale]

Ahh I must have been looking in the wrong spot

[mortal mist]

Astal works fine again 🙂

[glass aurora]

New build posted now

[mortal mist]

and more regressions 😄

Manx tt

[naive whale]

Gotta scramble some eggs to make an omelette lol

[mortal mist]

nice view 🙂

lsd

[gloomy hedge]

Build day build day build day

But I don't get my ram until tomorrow 😉

[gloomy hedge]

God damnit

I can't wait to play that game without chipmunks

[naive whale]

Nah that’s how it always looked lol

[mortal mist]

Panzer Dragoon is broken too

wow more and more lsd

😄

Panzer Dragon 2

[naive whale]

Haha I love it

This is like N64 core when we had three eyed Pikachu and quad eye Mario

[mortal mist]

however, I recommend skipping this core version when recording new material on YT 😛

Wipeout 2097 is broken too

[naive whale]

Haha these cores are all so “the same” I’m talking less and less about each individual core now and more “the last couple of cores”

[mortal mist]

ok I will stop testing , I reported the problem on github

[sudden tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/nayib-yonki-brozo-gif-21674202

[ripe valley]

We need to revert that revert.

Revertception.

[mortal mist]

I think that this problem srg320 will solve quickly 🙂

[sudden tusk]

Cool !

Ill hold off on testing until there’s a new update

[mortal mist]

guess what the game is ? 😛

[frail token]

I think everyone knows this but it's interesting how Inception in the movie doesn't mean a dream within a dream or whatever but it's been turned into a reference to that

[umbral radish]

Does anybody fancy testing Monster Slider on the 20240214 core - upon finishing the first level the game locks and boots you back to the Saturn Bios screen. I want to see if anyone else sees this before I report to Github.

[analog totem]

i could try it if it doesn’t take too long to beat the first level

what bios are you using?

[umbral radish]

Hi Saturn 1.02 - it's a puzzle /tetris / columns type game so will only tale a few minutes

[analog totem]

ok

[umbral radish]

win or lose it boots back to bios

[analog totem]

ok trying now

yep I can confirm the same behavior

[sudden tusk]

Burning rangers

[ripe valley]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/123
@umbral radish

[analog totem]

@umbral radish the unskippable “cut scene” before this first match is annoying

[umbral radish]

Cheers @analog totem. Can't seem to skip that cutscene

[analog totem]

ahhh I see that’s part of the bug

not sure if it’s skippable, but it’s longer than it should be and incomplete

[mortal mist]

bingo ! 🙂

[ripe valley]

I don't have time for testing and some possible debug today, so let's wait for srg320 in the next days.
Thanks for your tests here and the quick issue report.

[sudden tusk]

What did I win ?

[mortal mist]

eternal glory

[umbral radish]

I didn't realise it had already been reported on github @analog totem

[ripe valley]

You have won... all our esteem.

[analog totem]

@umbral radish probably a fluke, but I just loaded it with my trusty region free us bios and forced a loss and it plays the cut scene after the match and I was able to continue and do a rematch

[umbral radish]

ok, let me try that!

[sudden tusk]

Wow ! What a fulfilling morning !

[clear condor]

The position tracking for the lightgun still needs some work done inside the core itself. Once that's added, it should be pretty quick to get both SNAC guns and USB guns working

[analog totem]

@umbral radish it’s probably just random…did the rematch and lost again and it booted back to cd player screen

[naive whale]

Tripping Rangers

[umbral radish]

@analog totem same results, crashed with US Region Free Bios
Back to looking at some of the more playable Japanese catalogue!

[analog totem]

nice! Yeah, testing these JP games has been a blast. It helps a lot that I’ve already curated my collection to only stuff I should be able to actually play without knowing Japanese 😅 there’s been some cool stuff I’ve come across and most of it is playable

Based on the preliminary results from this build, I’ll probably wait for the next build to test again in earnest

[umbral radish]

same here! When I got my Mode years ago I separated out the playable from the unplayable, so I've just duplicated that on the MiSTer

[analog totem]

oh nice! honestly, I’d love to see your list compared to mine haha

[pearl harbor]

Seems like I should probably skip today's build update and wait for a hotfix?

[analog totem]

I went through all the japanese stuff fairly meticulously…took me over a year of working on it here and there to finish

[ancient surge]

I think like 70% of the library are Japan only releases? Might be wrong, but there is definitely a noticeable gap.

[umbral radish]

my "playable list" is not perfect by any means, but was done woth the help of one of those marathon Youtube vids that went through every game. If it looked playable to me it went into my playable folder. All of the JRPGs, marjong, dating sims went to another folder

[analog totem]

ah nice

I pretty much just dumped all of those ones haha

didn’t really see the point in keeping them

[umbral radish]

I only kept them just in case they ever got translated. While I have put these back onto my MiSTer I can't see myself testing these.

[analog totem]

yeah

i figure if anything gets translated i’ll just grab them as they release

[ancient surge]

Alright Bouken Katsugeki Monomono is fixed.

[analog totem]

I’ve got 379 Japan titles (including translations) vs. 256 US titles….that Japan number is after dropping tons and tons of stuff with heavy Japanese and stuff that also came out in the US or Europe, so I’d bet you’re right that JP releases take up well over half the library

[ancient surge]

So is Dragon Master Silk

Dragon Island is partially fixed

Still has problems with the audio breaking.

Monster Slider is not changed at all. Not surprised since I doubt it's related to the VDP1 or VDP2

[gloomy hedge]

Also asking same

[ancient surge]

Anyway time to my usual thing of pulling up random games to see how they run on the new build.

[rich violet]

There's another commit

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/commit/7edca954e963b28be60661185723a9c815c3ad76

[ancient surge]

Oh I guess he made a typo and is quickly fixing it?

[frail token]

I think so yeah lol

[mortal mist]

😄

damn

he is quick

[analog totem]

wow and here I was thinking “surely by tomorrow” 😂

[sudden tusk]

SRG DA GOD!

[mortal mist]

but why, no more lsd effects 😦

[analog totem]

just take some real LSD and problem solved

[mortal mist]

Haha

[unkempt kelp]

Tool fans be like "looks great"

[naive whale]

Lol that was fast

Gotta finish the VO on todays video soon

[ancient surge]

Sonic R is suffering from the regression too.

[analog totem]

that’s only for Arcade games! ….unless there are games on Saturn that display that 🤔

[hearty marten]

Using the most recent commit?

[ancient surge]

https://streamable.com/xorfbf

[mortal mist]

In 20-30 min it will be fixed 😛

[analog totem]

is that the average build time? 20-30 min.?

[hearty marten]

Last one took 38mins

[ancient surge]

That's why I'm not reporting on anything yet, since I'm assuming it will be fixed anyway.

[hearty marten]

Current one is 20mins in 🙂

So kuba's estimate is accurate 🙂

[ripe valley]

I've seen the typo like 40 mins ago, he fixed it just 1 minute after I was getting to leave him a message on the issue report from Kuba.
(So, nevermind, he found it.)

[analog totem]

ahh ok nice

[ancient surge]

I think Shinobi Legions is broken again. Not sure if it's related to the recent build or not.

[analog totem]

man, it’s crazy how one misplaced '!' can make us feel like we’re on drugs

[mortal mist]

works ok with second contoller disabled

[ancient surge]

Welcome to the magical world of 🌈 ✨ PROGRAMMING ✨ 🌈

[analog totem]

I didn’t know until the other day that the Shinobi bug with 2P happens on real hardware too…very interesting stuff

[ancient surge]

Okay so false alarm, Shinobi Legions booted up like normal. Must of been a fluke.

It's suffering from the same regression as other games.

[tough star]

you're fired.... again 😄

[analog totem]

quick, someone put in a github ticket with a feature request for LSD mode

[tough star]

we got LSD emulator on the PS1 - wrong channel for Lysergic acid diethylamide games

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD:_Dream_Emulator

[tough star]

fine you're rehired

Albert's Odyssey voice acting is..... horrendous

[mortal mist]

it;s masterpiece

[gloomy hedge]

TWO BUILDS 1 DAY

[ancient surge]

Oh it's now uploading!

[mortal mist]

yeah better than nothing....

😛

[hearty marten]

Eat your heart out, Robert 😂

[ancient surge]

So the new build fixed Sonic R and Shinobi Legions. I'm assuming the other games impacted by the regression are also fixed.

[mortal mist]

yes, all games i mentioned earlier are fixed

[ripe valley]

I need to verify some Capcom games.

[gloomy hedge]

get em Serg!

[hearty marten]

Seeing new cores drop every ~2 days for both the Saturn and N64 over the last few weeks has been so exciting 😄

[mortal mist]

there is something else in Burning Rangers, but that's a different problem

[pearl harbor]

Double build day! What does it mean!? 🌈 🌈

[naive whale]

It means he was annoyed he missed one line and broke stuff so he did it again lol

[drifting frigate]

Two builds at the same time? Then I shall sacrifice one and marry the other!

[naive whale]

Like when I export a long video and realize I forgot to dupe the stereo VO track for 20 seconds

[drifting frigate]

Kuba, and the build fell. SRG, his eyes open.

[naive whale]

Build time is probably the same as a render too 🤣

[pearl harbor]

He was distracted from looking at a double rainbow.

[naive whale]

That’s what your moms calling em these days?

[pearl harbor]

My esoteric jokes aren't hitting!

[hearty marten]

Maybe try saying them faster so all the words run together?

gets coat

[pearl harbor]

According to one dubious viewer, Awbacon talks like the Micromachines guy, so does that mean all his videos are one long joke!?

[drifting crown]

They’re all done in one breath. He gives you 45s to listen in the middle to huff pure oxygen

[naive whale]

I got used to holding my breath for long periods of time because of your mom 🤷🏻‍♂️

🤣 @drifting crown I hope you know my sense of humor. @pearl harbor does but I try to remember not everyone does

[drifting crown]

My mums dead

She’s not really but she has been lonely since the divorce. She says thanks for the visits.

[naive whale]

I’m just glad her state allows conjugal visits

Supermax style

[untold spear]

i beat mmx4 last night twice

once with megaman x and the other with zero

[naive whale]

That’s beating it like it owes you money

[untold spear]

i did notice on the boss it would rarely cut out the music

and then it just felt awkward

like i was hitting them with a stick that just made a loud thud noise while they stood still

only bug i noticed though

[mortal mist]

Yeah , it's already on github

[untold spear]

it was rare enough to only happen with 1 boss.. the mushroom dude

and i really meant he did nothing. easiest boss in the game

[tawny forge]

Do we have crappy ram fix in already?

[mortal mist]

Yes, works better than 3.0

[tawny forge]

WUT

[ancient surge]

Culdcept seems to have some minor graphical glitches.

[untold spear]

you have no idea what i went through. i played this on the psx side with my buddy over. he watched it. i was getting smacked down by many bosses, but there was a point where all of a sudden, the bosses did nothing. except sigmas last form.. that form was absolute bullshit. i had beaten his first two forms so many times, i did it with my eyes closed.

[mortal mist]

Just kidding

No change

[tawny forge]

What do you mean, @mortal mist ?

Oh man

lol

😩

[untold spear]

then after i got killed i think over 50 times

he finally told me about zeros slash cancel with dash

[ripe valley]

The codebase seems quite stable now.
The regressions from all those 2 last weeks are gone, except the reintroduction of the flickering on NBA Jam.

[ancient surge]

Yeah I noticed that everything is a lot more stable. A lot of the issues are stuff like the CDDA and gouraud shading still being broken and maybe some minor VDP1/VDP2 stuff.

[ripe valley]

The SMPC is working as intended, the Capcom games are working once more and some graphical regressions on Rockman 8 and Pocket Fighter are gone.

VDP1/2 are quite stable, but need some refinements.

I will keep the source code somewhere, it could be useful.

Powerslave works without that atrocious sound.

[mortal mist]

@ripe valley Could you check Burning Rangers please?

Maybe you can see where the problem comes from 🙂

[untold spear]

that was my favorite part. there was a time i booted that game up and i thought it was cursed

straight out of one of those haunted game stories

[wooden dew]

Does elevator action returns still have the chipmunk noise rock vocals

[naive whale]

thats a bonus not a bug lol

[ripe valley]

Okay, I'm finishing on Darius Gaiden before.

I've just seen a problem with After Burner 2, could you check if the game boots or not on your system ?
I've seen that InfernoHabanero have reopened the issue the other day.

[unkempt kelp]

Space Jam had non-stop announcer quips when I tested it. It was hilarious.

[shadow merlin]

I had that bug on real hardware with the fenrir ODE once

[ripe valley]

I see the problem.
A decoding error on the VDP2 NBG1 with transparent sprites.
I don't know how to fix it, we should report it to srg320.

[mortal mist]

Thanks !

[drifting frigate]

@ripe valley I couldn't get AB2 to boot either. Also, 'exiting' from the Space Harrier II menu locks the collection.

[pearl harbor]

I just got After Burner 2 to boot just fine on my end.

Still no audio though.

[drifting frigate]

I'm gonna try a cold boot.

[naive whale]

rendering todays video

should be a fun and big one

[ripe valley]

Schrödinger AB2.

[drifting frigate]

<Corsican Bros Reference>

[pearl harbor]

That's what my mom said about you dad.

[naive whale]

fun, big and lasts 15 minutes

the video I mean!

[drifting frigate]

And now AB2 works.

Oh, weird. It works off of bin/cue but not chd for me.

[ripe valley]

Welcome timing issue somewhere on the spaghetti of code.

[drifting frigate]

No sound as well.

Yep

That or one of the 10^23 instances where a WO chip process triggers one of the 50 different register locks that are not idempotent so it's like storing a state machine in an array of superpointers.

[ripe valley]

I understood everything.
We are monsters.

[drifting frigate]

Yeah. 😦

They broker SO much between the multiple processors with collision resolution instead of cleaning up the pipeline. It's almost like they rushed it to market after shoving in a new function with a hammer and some spackle.

[naive whale]

please its "woodscrews, spit and a prayer"

as in "the Saturn's hardware is held together with wood screws, spit and a prayer" 😆

[sudden tusk]

If this reality truly is a simulation somebody must put a few too many “!” Into the code

[gloomy hedge]

Oh shit my ram is coming today, early

[gloomy hedge]

Also yes lmao this is something

If Bulk Slash (English twinsticks patch) still works well that's a game I've been meaning to play through...
... With twinstix baby

Also if virtual on finally works on this new ram. Will finally get to try twinsticks there too

I also bought this but I don't think 🤔 that this is gonna be handy for the Saturn core lmao

[errant prawn]

may be a dumb questsion.. is Oct 2023 the latest "stable" core?

[mortal mist]

Can anyone check Thunderstrike II ? I have a black screen in the menu

music plays

[drifting frigate]

OK, to clarify on Afterburner 2, it is random, not related to image. I got differing results across the board with RAM, chd/bin, etc. with both the JP Ages standalone and the NA Ages collection. Neat.

[naive whale]

that box looks like it says Pooper 2 😆

left a present in #share-media

[gloomy hedge]

poopsie twopsie

[tidal raptor]

I believe so, work on the core picked up pretty recently, but as you can see from the commit comments, lots of breaking changes, probably be a while before another stable push

[naive whale]

I dunno if stable is the right term but its the last core in main / update_all

after the Oct update_all core everything else has been unstable nightlies

[errant prawn]

U da man

[errant prawn]

Gracias

[delicate mantle]

bgm in Radient Silvergun is working better, still getting some glitchy hi frequency stuff in between tracks, but its playing more of it. definately a noticable improvement.

[peak narwhal]

With RAM on Saturn core is speed essentially the concern or is there a reason to need a specific module

[naive whale]

lol two people dislike good news and Sega glory

I bet its when I called Saturn more technically complicated of silicon than N64 because of its odd design vs N64 being actually well developed hardware

[peak narwhal]

I remember running my ram though the test and it was clocked at the faster end

[pearl harbor]

I'm trying to think of the biggest remaining things that still need to be addresses on the core. The remaining audio issues, gouraud shading implementation, and lightgun support? Anything else that would be as major as those?

[pine elm]

Wow, recently SRG320 is REALLY on fire. He's literally updating the core everyday

[tawny forge]

Crappy RAM fix is what’s missing

[frail token]

it's a race with Robert it seems

[gloomy hedge]

Let's see if this drug does what its supposed to do

[naive whale]

its a suppository dont forget

[tall radish]

what if it’s the same person

SRG stands for Same Robert Guy

[naive whale]

Sega Really Good 320

[gloomy hedge]

yeah I see its got the little grippers to make sure I get it up the credit card slot and seated properly

[naive whale]

remember to keep the right side facing out 🤣

[gloomy hedge]

let me grab a mirror, jokes aside I think we are good there

soo uh

Sega Rally still White Screens after first stage

is that the correct behavior on 3.0?

sound seemed WAY more stable tho, and cutout a lot later

[alpine pagoda]

Your sound still cuts out? I thought that was fine for better ram?

[lavish wadi]

Anyone else know what Thunder Force V plays like on real hardware? I don’t remember the amount of slowdown.. within the first 30 seconds transition between sky and water and big enemy spinning. Perhaps it’s my ram or it’s just not there yet

[gloomy hedge]

whoa also sokyu gurentai crashed after the first stage lol it might also be the new core not sure haha

althoguh I THINK the sprites look better in souky

yes 100% they look better on this ram / core (2 variables...)

but I crash after stage 1, this is a regression

that has happened to me twice now

1 step forward 1 step back

hyper duel with sound in menus and stuff! yay! 3.0 wins here

blast wind still has sound issues with new core / 3.0

3.0 seems more finnicky about making sure to COLD REBOOT before EVERY GAME

[gloomy hedge]

trying again to confirm

gonna try the netlink edition instead of the usa version for shits

yup cuts out

same way

or I have a bad copy? I got it from redump...

still white screens after stage 1

[tawny forge]

Are you using external HDD or SD?

[gloomy hedge]

sound is much BETTER with 3.0 but it goes in and out

[gloomy hedge]

sd card

I wont ever have an external hd for my mister

[tawny forge]

Latest main and core?

[gloomy hedge]

yes

[tawny forge]

Which bios?

[gloomy hedge]

its the same behavior ive been having forever so no big there

hisaturn 1.03 region free

bios changes didnt do much for me before, placebo at best

could try another bios ?

but wont for now

unless ther's another one people use that is specifically more popular

[tawny forge]

I haven’t had a white screen in sega rally championship in ages. And I have crappy ram.

[gloomy hedge]

shit

you get it from redump?

[tawny forge]

Audio goes off eventually for me though

Redump yeah. Converted myself to CHD

[gloomy hedge]

I dont do that either

I just stick with the bins

wonder why im havin issues with thatone

oh well

core's not done 😛

cotton 2 crashes at the same spot with 3.0 ram

[tawny forge]

I don’t think people with 3.0 ram are having the issues you are having though

[gloomy hedge]

thats why im being verbose

do I need to do anything special after installing it?

[tawny forge]

No

[gloomy hedge]

cotton 2 crashing in stage 1

[silk mauve]

The hokey-pokey, but that's it

[gloomy hedge]

damn

I only flossed

[silk mauve]

Too advanced for the core, tone it down

[gloomy hedge]

lmao

[tawny forge]

One thing that comes to my mind. Heatsink + fan

Do you have them?

You should unless you have one of those neat aluminum cases

[gloomy hedge]

VR Troopers got way more sound

and is stuck here

better sound but same behavior as before game wise

[gloomy hedge]

yep got a standard mister

[ripe valley]

I've played Cotton 2 with today's build until the end of stage 4, no problem at all.

[gloomy hedge]

what ram do YOU have?

magic ram?

thunderforce 5 runs with 3.0 ( did not with 2.5 ) - has sound but then cuts out

[ripe valley]

Dual v2.9 RAM coming from UltimateMister in early 2022, mesured at 149Mhz.

[tawny forge]

TF5 was running fine on my crappy ram

[gloomy hedge]

never ran on mine

[tawny forge]

Gotta try it again with latest core

[gloomy hedge]

@ripe valley you on 3.0?

[silk mauve]

He just said

[gloomy hedge]

ooops

[tawny forge]

149Mhz whoa

[gloomy hedge]

Im not on dual

so first of all

im on single so dunno if that matters

[tawny forge]

Whats the speed of your ram when running ramtest for 15min @gloomy hedge ?

[gloomy hedge]

no idea I literally got it 1 minute ago haha

[ripe valley]

Normally, it should be between 145-150 for the correct specs.

[tawny forge]

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-dewit-gif-11426456

[gloomy hedge]

my old one was like 145 or somethin

whoa manxTT with sound

will it chipmunk in game

lets find out

yep chimpmunky

in race

actually not as bad as before, but yeah no good sound during race

butI got menu sound clean as a whistle

Layer section 2 with sound!

awww nevermind cut out

then crashed

based

[ripe valley]

At the moment, I don't know, with a v3.0 RAM, you should have SEGA Rally working, Cotton 2 working too.

[gloomy hedge]

anything else I could check?

here I'll do a memtest

[tawny forge]

Ramtest core for sure

[gloomy hedge]

for you asses

[ripe valley]

Burning Rangers, if you have the full animated intro.

[gloomy hedge]

dont think I have that game actually

[ripe valley]

And if you could go to the training room.

Too bad.

[gloomy hedge]

is it a good game

145

I dont think its gonna change

started at 150, went down to 145 and is sitting there, last time did the same thing

(on my 2.5)

[ripe valley]

A little bit low but remains in the specs for the MiSTer.

[tawny forge]

My 2.crap sits at 145 too

[alpine pagoda]

Sega rally sound cuts out for me, but it doesn’t white screen, it’s weird how variable it all is

[gloomy hedge]

yeah the white screen annoys me more than the cutouts

[alpine pagoda]

I think mine was about 143

[gloomy hedge]

maybe I will re DL the dumpy dump

[alpine pagoda]

Chd on a usb stick for me

[gloomy hedge]

ewwwww usb stick! hehee jk

[ripe valley]

SEGA Team doing a firefighter game with JAPAAAAAAN everywhere.

[gloomy hedge]

that sounds kinda great

[alpine pagoda]

lol, yeah given how cheap big sd cards are these days there’s not much point

[gloomy hedge]

does the "cartridge" setting matter at all btw?

I mean for games that dont really need it?

[ripe valley]

Only 1 or 2 games don't want a cardridge at all on the system.

[gloomy hedge]

what do y'all keep it on?

[ripe valley]

But it's late or very early, I don't remember right away the impacted games.

I'm using the region free HiSaturn BIOS, with the 4MB card ON generally. And only moving it to 1MB for SNK games + reset the core (after that change).

[gloomy hedge]

I just got ahead of the fucking red car EVEN THO

blue car fuckin brake checked me

dick

and yeah white screen right after

smh

[tawny forge]

Geez lemme try sega rally championship now

Kids still awake damn

[ripe valley]

I've not tested SEGA Rally today, as I was focused on other games with those regressions.

[gloomy hedge]

any vsync-adjust issues or anything like that?

[gloomy hedge]

well for me its 2 variabls unfortunately

but it was a "no-gression" lol

[ripe valley]

Yes. 😅

[gloomy hedge]

its just one of my faovrite games of all time

here

before I get banned for sharing media contraband

[ripe valley]

😏

[gloomy hedge]

robby gonna shoot my dick off

[ripe valley]

Like when the core status was 6-7 months ago.

[gloomy hedge]

that run is setup for a 1cc and yet.... smh

forest = white scrzn

my official stance on the 3.0 RAM - its better, but not worth "upgrading" at the moment, its not like it blew my mind. it is definitely better though

@unkempt kelp @naive whale fyi - I will continue to test, but my opinion is that its definitely better, but its not like suddenly making the core amazing for me ( yet )

[ripe valley]

There is something else that must escape us.

[gloomy hedge]

FUCK ITS THE FUZZ

[alpine pagoda]

There must be another factor here than just the ram

[naive whale]

No it’s not a silver bullet. It’s more of a “confirming it’s core, not ram” issues cropping up

[gloomy hedge]

understood

[naive whale]

On 2.5V it was always “well is it the core or the ram”

[gloomy hedge]

true true

[naive whale]

This basically just indicates “ok my ram is in spec. So it’s NOT that”

[gloomy hedge]

so it could still be something finnicky with the core or maybe my dump

[naive whale]

Verifying by process of variable elimination until you are left with a result

[gloomy hedge]

I will re-DL sega rally from redump to make triple sure

Cotton 2 as well, basically stuff that I expected to "run like how people above are saying" isnt yet

[naive whale]

Because funny enough my 2.5V ram had zero issues. Ran fast, ran stable. But I had blessed ram on that stick

[gloomy hedge]

yeah ive heard similar stories

robby didnt shoot me, ... must have misplaced his bullet

gotta run off to dinner, will test more soon, the core is rad! ❤️

[ripe valley]

Some Holy water on it and that should do.

😛

Shall I call a Belmont ?

[gloomy hedge]

I could try to shove both rams in

that should do it

[naive whale]

@burnt matrix shoots blanks

[gloomy hedge]

2.5+3.0 = more

[ripe valley]

Don't forget the switches on the DE10-Nano if you go Dual RAM.

[gloomy hedge]

I don't intend on it but yeah thank you

This is my mister btw just in case there's any clues but it's pretty standard

[tawny forge]

Sega Rally Championship running good here

[gloomy hedge]

Get past first stage? Sound?

[tawny forge]

Got to the second race with zero issues

[mortal steppe]

Without sound cutoff?

[tawny forge]

No sound cutoff

[gloomy hedge]

Neato

(I hate you)

[tawny forge]

2.5 if I’m not mistaken

Weird 🤔

[gloomy hedge]

Haha 😅😃😂

[mortal steppe]

I'll try tomorrow with my 2.4

[tawny forge]

Lemme run memtest

[gloomy hedge]

screams into a pillow

I'll get a redump again I dunno

I'm not completely incompetent at getting the right rom I swear

[tawny forge]

Ewww

[blazing lance]

What are you capturing mister video with Aktane

[tawny forge]

Geez it dropped to 140

Maybe the core likes slow ram more now? Lol

Lemme try Thunder Force 5

[burnt matrix]

My Powerslave audio repeat issue is due to CHD compression.

[tawny forge]

Oh I was running the wrong core version

I want the saturn_unstable

Lemme try Sega Rally Championship again

[blazing lance]

Ah, I didn't even realize it could read CHDs now

That new?

[burnt matrix]

Been in there for a few months

[ripe valley]

The loud loop on the sound you mentioned yesterday ?

[burnt matrix]

Yes, sir

[tawny forge]

All good with latest core here for Sega Rally Championship

[burnt matrix]

I tried two different CHD compression methods and it produces that issue. Reverting back to bin/cue and I don’t have that loud loop on intro anymore.

[ripe valley]

Strange too, as I could reproduce it with yesterday's build, but gone with either my SMPC Revert version or the last today's build, and it was a timing issue.

And I'm using only CHDv5.

[alpine pagoda]

@tawny forge I had a run on sega rally where it didn’t cut out on first two races, but when I tried again it cut out. Also it cut out earlier when I had it in cockpit.

[burnt matrix]

Yeah, I was able to complete all three races without any problems. Only issue I could notice was sprite tearing on the dirt effects but wasn’t sure if it was a problem on original hardware too.

[burnt matrix]

How can I tell which CHD am I using? I grabbed from latest MAME release.

[ripe valley]

It's the v5.

[burnt matrix]

Oh ok, thank you

[ripe valley]

MAME switched on CHD v5 eaons ago.

19 Feb 12 (12 years ago)

[tawny forge]

Yeah, eventually it always cut for me too

[gloomy hedge]

ElGato HD 60S+

It's really annoying because on "mode" changes it sometimes loses tracking

But it's fine

[gloomy hedge]

This is why that mem test aint really too important haha

[ripe valley]

And what is the SD card you're using ?

[tawny forge]

Burning Rangers intro doing good so far

Spoke too soon

Frozen lol

[ripe valley]

A white screen and sound cuts offs/freezes are generally a lack of data received on-time.
So, it could be the core, a slow RAM, a slow SD card, slow network drive...

Many factors possible.

[gloomy hedge]

I dunno SanDisk or something probably

[ripe valley]

Okay, it's not a knockoff brand.

[alpine pagoda]

I haven’t done it recently but in the past I tried running the game from the sd card and a usb stick and there was no difference

[gloomy hedge]

Thats what I got

[ripe valley]

Grade 10 - A1 speed, okay, pretty good.

[burnt matrix]

it could still be 👀

[gloomy hedge]

Lol how so

God I hope the SanDisk store isn't selling fakes lmao

[tawny forge]

https://tenor.com/view/imposibiru-gif-16389009832261511254

[ripe valley]

So, it should not be the card, and not the core (as we are using the same from the Unstable nightlies here).

[gloomy hedge]

Yep

I'll grab another redump to rule that out

But I'm gonna say probably not that. So the only thing left is the weather

[burnt matrix]

Oh ok from Amazon and from Sandisk themselves 🍻

[analog totem]

It wasn’t on the testing sheet and I didn’t add it, but I just wanted every diehard Saturn fan here to know that Eyeful Home works : https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=foptp3oiLk4

[analog totem]

Do you use the passthrough feature on the Elgato by chance? I have the same capture card and had issues until I just put an hdmi splitter in front of it and stopped using the passthrough.

[gloomy hedge]

I do and I have no issues with passthrough

But I see what you mean as in - you're saying that you have less issues with tracking loss?

[analog totem]

yes

[gloomy hedge]

Yeah that very well could be the case

[analog totem]

my video would drop more often before I switched

And certain chores that aren’t exactly 60 Hz would give me problems

[gloomy hedge]

I didn't have any issues with that part

I just get drops only on mode switches and I just turn it off and then on in OBS and we're back

[analog totem]

but once I switched to using the splitter, I can do vsync=2 with no problem generally

[gloomy hedge]

Yeah I'm vsync 2 for life

[analog totem]

ah interesting

[gloomy hedge]

I think it could be because my monitor can do those hz?

Like I run cave core at 57, Sharp core at 55, etc.

[analog totem]

my monitor can too but the card had problems with it when i’d use passthrough

the cave core was what motivated me to try a splitter

and I actually had to try two splitters because the first one video looked choppy

[gloomy hedge]

Yeah I really didn't want to use a splitter so I'm glad I didn't have to

[analog totem]

also, passthrough does chroma subsampling so you get 4:2:2 colors instead of 4:4:4

I noticed the difference and to be fair it’s not super noticeable but still

[gloomy hedge]

Oh wait really? On the HD60S+ specifically?

[analog totem]

yes

[gloomy hedge]

Shminteresting

Thank you that's good to know

After the passthrough I have a switch that lets me pick between my Yoko and Tate monitor

Like a very simple button switch

[analog totem]

yeah again it’s really subtle but when I switched back and forth I could see the difference

since you’re doing that I would recommend a splitter so you’re not compressing the signal before sending it to your monitors

and as an added bonus you shoullld notice less dropouts in OBS

[gloomy hedge]

You mean because of the colors?

[analog totem]

yeah

[gloomy hedge]

I'm ok on that

It's noted but not enough for me to add to my setup

[analog totem]

oh for sure

[gloomy hedge]

I have it down to a science 😅

Muscle memory

[analog totem]

I know that feeling

[gloomy hedge]

One day I'll say fuck it and add something to it but I spent a while trying to get something to help me stream and also stay on top of things

The good news is I use analog audio and the passthrough IS lagless

So that's great. So far so good 😳

[analog totem]

oh yeah nice

I see you play a bunch of shmups/stg so I had to throw ya a follow

[gloomy hedge]

I was just about to tag you in #share-media

[unkempt kelp]

Right, I sent you that so you could join in on the testing spreadsheet 🙂

[gloomy hedge]

Always down to help! But worried my experience is not the same as others so far but definitely down!

This one, right?

[naive whale]

For people wondering about their SD cards

https://www.aja.com/products/aja-system-test

You can use this to perform read/write tests on basically anything

If you have davinci resolve you also have access to BlackMagic Speed test, which will assess read speeds on your SD cards

Don’t believe you have a SanDisk just because it’s “sold by Amazon”….they throw all that shit in a big bin and the Amazon one is next to the “big Charley’s discount SD cards and George Foreman Grill emporium” batch

I recommend if you are having random issues on modern 2.9/3.0V ram that you test your cards capabilities to ensure it’s up to the job

Both utilities are free and from trusted vendors

Nothing comes into my bin of cards, camera or MiSTer, without a full speed test 🙂 it’s worth the time

Basically test every variable until you can rule them all out. Check ram speeds. Check disk speeds. Confirm they are all in line with minimum specs. Then make sure you have the correct dumps of games that are confirmed working. If it fails then you can point to the problem confidently

(And trust me. I’ve purchased memory cards from every damn vendor under the sun. I’ve found counterfeits that won’t pass checks from all of them)

[burnt matrix]

@unkempt kelp I saw you had an audio repeat issue. I had a similar problem with Powerslave, I fixed it by just using a bin/cue. With CHD compression it had issues.

So far only game I’ve run across with that weirdness on my MiSTer.

Also noticed that the DBZ French game works. It’s been a while since I tested but it was interesting to check it out.

[unkempt kelp]

I think I reverted from CHD to BIN/CUE for all of my systems. If Space Jam works for you I'll update the sheet.

[burnt matrix]

Digital Pinball Necronomicon has a pretty metal intro lmao

[gloomy hedge]

you think sd cards can change the way teh saturn core behaves forreal?

just blows my mind because its the only core that requires all of this rigor

k now what bacon

[peak narwhal]

Network fileshare should be consistent and fast enough for any core right?

[naive whale]

You fine lol

[gloomy hedge]

just got a fresh reDUMP of dat sega rally yo

lets see

got dat BURNIN RAGER too

[naive whale]

Some bootleg ass cards will read in the basement. Bootleg garbage you’ll see 10-15 MB/SEC which I think will cause problems

A lot of times it appears more as read/write errors. I put my camera cards through full write and read cycles before they go on a set. But that’s way too much for anything MiSTer related

[gloomy hedge]

STAGE TWO LOADED!!!

YOOO

swear I had the same dump

I swear it

[naive whale]

I’m also the dummy who pops Extreme Pro class SanDisk in his MiSTer because “well I’d use it for my camera…should be good here too” 🤣

But it beats the V90 SDXC cards my cameras take. $130 for 138GB and that’s considered “cheap”

[burnt matrix]

It’s an unorthodox and incredibly complex machine. The core isn’t fully optimized either. I’m sure by the time it’s done things will be very stable.

[naive whale]

Grab checksums on yours vs @burnt matrix that would actually be useful

So if we know it’s truly diff or actually the same

[burnt matrix]

Checksum on what

[naive whale]

The dumps

[gloomy hedge]

fuck @naive whale I didnt clear

[naive whale]

It would be interesting to know if Aktane’s “same dump” is actually diff

[gloomy hedge]

do you want any sega rally footage?

oh yeah about that

[burnt matrix]

Dump of what

[gloomy hedge]

I deleted the old dump

fuck

I mean it was dead to me

[naive whale]

Dumps in your trunk

[left hollow]

Core is getting there lately with the updates? I haven't really looked much into saturn core because I don't know 100% of how things should be working

[gloomy hedge]

its on dude ima get this 1cc

[burnt matrix]

also A2 rated cards are the best for MiSTer, they have much faster random read/writes

[burnt matrix]

Yeah, little by little stability is improved and bugs are being ironed out

[gloomy hedge]

^^^

[naive whale]

I know it’s a bit much but I think on these “it works on mine but not yours” tests (same ram version, same core, etc) if we could get checksums off both dumps we could really look at whether it’s just bad files for those individual games

[burnt matrix]

oh what game do I need to do a checksum on

[gloomy hedge]

9th in stage 1

[naive whale]

I say that because my Steam Deck tutorials…100/100 times I get “I put the bios files where you told me and it didn’t Work”….checksums of the zips are not correct

[gloomy hedge]

guess what just happened

I got the white screen

WHAT THE FUCK

huhhh!?!?!

I have the footage

is it because I put a score in ? hahaha

[burnt matrix]

I think this core only works for people who truly have love for SEGA in their hearts

❤️❤️

[gloomy hedge]

dont you FUCKING EVEN FUCKING DARE

saturn was my first console

forreal forreal

the kids made fun of me for it

they all had ps1s

and n64s

would this footage be useful to anyone?

[left hollow]

I never knew anyone with a saturn

[gloomy hedge]

it shows a full race and then a white screen of death after stage 1 when I finally have a sick time

wait what if its white screening ME because Im actually GOOD at this game

not like you posers

[burnt matrix]

what game

[gloomy hedge]

what if the white screen is specific to my amazing ability 😛

sega rally championship (usa)

[burnt matrix]

Oh, I’ve beaten all three races because the core knows that I love SEGA

[gloomy hedge]

ha jokes on you there's 4 races

[naive whale]

@gloomy hedge just raced so fast @burnt matrix he got ahead of the code execution and crashed the game. You need talent for that. Not some Texas half assery!

[burnt matrix]

I play the plus net link CC edition for cool people

[gloomy hedge]

thats right!

[burnt matrix]

lolol

[gloomy hedge]

scorchin

[naive whale]

Hey I found a photo of @burnt matrix playing MiSTer!

[gloomy hedge]

I'll upload it to yt or osmethin

[burnt matrix]

damn look at my cool iMac

[left hollow]

Nah that's an emachine

[naive whale]

AMachine. Alamo Machine

[gloomy hedge]

holy shit is that an ouya mixed with a stadia

[trim nimbus]

One of these days @burnt matrix is going to snap and open up a tank of pro-pain on the channel.

[naive whale]

Not with that narrow urethra he won’t

[tough star]

evening

oh nice - people are testing the JP library

[left hollow]

https://tenor.com/view/dracula-vampire-gif-12706215853670391392

[tough star]

yup 😄

[left hollow]

Hard not to test the JP library with sega saturn

[tough star]

yup

[analog totem]

Oh weird, my copy of Powerslave is CHD too and I didn’t have any audio issues with it 🤔

[tough star]

when I heard Powerslave in @naive whale's video

[earnest ginkgo]

Guys is there a small modification I can make to downloader.ini so that it pulls down these Saturn builds through update_all?

[tough star]

yes

when the script starts push up

and select what you want from the unstable channel

otherwise use:https://vampier.net/Saturn/update_SaturnSingle.sh

[drifting crown]

@gloomy hedge maybe a power issue? What psu and what do you have connected?

[tawny forge]

I think he was just using bad dumps at the end of the day?

[mortal mist]

#1046941029296779344 message

then the white screen of death happened again 😛

[sinful verge]

He had problems with a bunch of games, not just Sega Rally. Maybe return that ram and try another one. Could be just bad luck of draw

[tawny forge]

Meh

[drifting crown]

I’d be tempted to wipe the sd card and start again.

[burnt matrix]

Yeah I’m convinced it’s just me with the problem lolol

Which is good because it means I’m in the minority or an outlier and it works great for most people. 🍻

[mortal mist]

better play Saturn on Pi

[gloomy hedge]

https://youtu.be/IDljJkL3IkA?si=ADU2cqW5eC01c6UB yeah although after I "redumped" I finally got through a race, right after I got the WSOD as seen here

[gloomy hedge]

Wouldn't this affect other cores? It's the PSU that came with the mister via MisterAddons back in 2020, has a double headed thing with a power switch

@naive whale did mention maybe it was a copy to SD error or something?

Gonna try wiping that folded and recopying all my games - some may have been copied via Wi-Fi in the past. Though most were copied via USB adapter (taking out the card)

[gloomy hedge]

Gonna try "redumping" or "recopying" cotton 2 because that one still crashes in stage 1 for me

Or sometimes right after stage 1

[burnt matrix]

|| It actually runs fantastically on the pi 5 with mednaffe ||

[naive whale]

That is true. Was playing around with it last week

(Damn it I agreed with Robby)

[mortal mist]

https://tenor.com/view/traitor-family-guy-stewie-slap-teddybear-gif-4704222

[gloomy hedge]

How's the input lag and does it look accurate

I'm gonna guess the answers are 1.) Sus and 2.) Nice but inaccurate

[burnt matrix]

It looks very accurate but there’s input lag.

[gloomy hedge]

Oh are they getting better on the accuracy?

[burnt matrix]

Yeah, I think Mednafen and DuckStation are extremely good emulators. I would consider them excellent.

[gloomy hedge]

Beetle Saturn was the first time I felt Saturn was accurate enough to actually play, back in 2020 or so

Which I know is just a mednafen fork

But it was better than just mednafen

[warped cliff]

it really did take a while until we had a decent Saturn emulator didn't it?

[burnt matrix]

I prefer the Saturn core though

[warped cliff]

for the longest time it seemed like it just wasn't a thing

[naive whale]

FPGA FANBOY

[burnt matrix]

That’s what the F stands for

[burnt matrix]

Yeah, the multi chip design made it orders of magnitudes more complex than any other system. Plus emulators are written by hobbyist programmers in their spare time and to be frank a lot of them weren’t up to the task either due to skill or free time availability.

[naive whale]

no it stands for Fobby

[burnt matrix]

N64 software emulation is still not what I’d consider good enough in my extremely limited experience.

[naive whale]

stop making me agree with you today

[burnt matrix]

Plus even if it was, the N64 core is the best play to play, hands-down

[warped cliff]

even ares?

[burnt matrix]

I could be wrong, maybe that one is fantastic. I didn’t spend too much time with it. I’ll try it out again today.

I do like ares a lot though. Probably first multi-system emulator that I enjoyed.

[warped cliff]

anyhow, Saturn did what nintendidn't in terms of making a system that couldn't be emulated reasonably well for decades

[burnt matrix]

Saturn is so wacky I love it

I remember it was so difficult early commercial attempts straight up lied to hide the fact they were using PC source ports instead of actual Saturn emulation

GameTap proudly proclaimed Saturn emulation but when you just looked at the files they were all windows executables and asset files LOL. I remember John Linneman getting big mad when he was called out for being fooled by it back when he went by dark1x.

[ripe valley]

Most of the development documentations on the Saturn were wrong (especially the English translated ones) and most of the early Saturn emulation was based on those documents.
It didn't help at all.

[burnt matrix]

Haha

[ripe valley]

We have some corrected documents on the system based on the Japanese bibliography only since 5 years and some emudevs skilled for opening the console + probing directly the chips.

[burnt matrix]

Yeah I don’t think people know just how shit documentation was for Japanese game consoles. They did a poor job documenting their hardware to begin with and don’t bother to translate those docs when handing them out to devs in other countries. Or if they did it was poorly translated.

[ripe valley]

In terms of pure accuracy, SSF is the best but it lacks some rather needed options and the code regressed on 2023/2024; Mednafen/Beetle is the most practical one.

M2 uses some parts of SSF on the SEGA Saturn Tribute collection.

Mednafen is used on projects like the PolyMega.

[burnt matrix]

It helps explains why Western devs were often behind Japanese back in the 16-bit and shows just how incredible western devs were with the PS1/N64.

Rare beat Nintendo at their own game rather handidly having a major handicap like that. Thats just how good they were.

[ripe valley]

Near wanted to tackle the Saturn and worked on the 32x beforehand, but they left us tragically.

[burnt matrix]

Hell, when we received 3DS dev kits early on back before its official announcement and it was a giant motherboard with a grafted screen and controls. All the documentation was in Japanese with ZERO assistance from them.

That was in 2009.

[ripe valley]

I've seen some of the early 3DS devkits, I don't know how you worked with it at all and why Nintendo R&D sent them like that.

[burnt matrix]

and it’s not like you could pay someone to translate them. It was filled to the brim with technical knowledge, acronyms, and highly specific and obtuse Japanese.

It was a shit show lol

[warped cliff]

I gotta say I'm really glad we're tracking game compatibility for this core now

[dim tulip]

The entire emulation history around Saturn is pretty fascinating, especially thinking back to the mid-2000s when the only real option was SSF. As a dumb teenager with no knowledge of hardware, I was always confused how more ‘advanced’ systems had better emulation available, I had assumed that it would all be developed chronologically haha

[burnt matrix]

Dude you have no idea lmao. My favorite part was the highly specific three step process to turning on and off the motherboard or else you’d brick the system.

This wasn’t documented anywhere or mentioned by anyone from Nintendo.

We had to figure that shit out on our own after bricking three motherboards and sending them back to Japan to be repaired and sent back. A MONTH LATER.

[ripe valley]

I remember another dev at Ubisoft saying the same on the process.

They were fed up with bricked devkits.

Ninja'ed.

[burnt matrix]

If the turn around time were like a week it’d be ok. But Nintendo did not give a fuck.

So not only were you under the gun to deliver a launch game but Nintendo themselves were proactively screwing you through negligence.

Imagine how a Saturn dev felt lmao

[drifting crown]

I remember trying ssf (or another early one) back around 2002 and getting about 1 frame a minute on a P150. Great times.

[burnt matrix]

Which is why I laugh when I see people compare Sega Away Team games against like Sonic Team’s output. Yeah it’s no contest on which one was better but you’re comparing against a team who has the keys to the kingdom and complete documentation in their own native language against a team who is barely able to figure shit out because Sega Japan did not give a fuuuuck about anyone outside of Japan.

My friend worked at Sega during that time so his complaints and frustrations rubbed off on me lol.

[ripe valley]

😏

[burnt matrix]

So yeah srg320 is frankly pretty incredible for pulling off the Saturn core imo

[ripe valley]

Something like with Nintendo vs. KONAMI during the SNES/SFC times.
Nintendo delivered an old devkit and SDK for creating Castlevania IV / Akumajou Dracula and kept the up-to-date devkit and SDK to their internal teams.
As they don't want third parties creating better games than themselves for the launch games and first months of the console.

[burnt matrix]

Yeah, absolutely embarrassing behavior.

[ripe valley]

Cherry on the top, the game was burned on slowROM instead of fastROM chips (and tested in that configuration with final QA), so the game lags like hell on some stages on retail.

[burnt matrix]

when you go into the details and interactions Nintendo had with a lot of developers way back when it’s really not surprising why everyone hated them and defected to PlayStation or Saturn

Like how that company wasn’t burned to the ground for screwing everyone over is beyond me

but I’m glad they weren’t because I love their games and modern Nintendo is much better

[silk mauve]

Not too much better. Their angst towards developers shifted into angst towards the fans

[burnt matrix]

lol I suppose so

[ripe valley]

@burnt matrix I used to talk with ShimaX (SSF creator), FCare and Benjamin (Kronos), Steve Kwok (NOVA) and Rypheca (Mednafen) on Saturn researches all these past years.
What srg320 is doing since 2021 is mind blowing, even with their technical skills and personal researches.

[naive whale]

Modern Nintendo just sucks in newer and meaner ways

[ripe valley]

But it takes time, as he wants to do it accurately as possible, sometimes breaking all his code like those last 15 days.

[burnt matrix]

I don’t know who those people are but I’m sure they’re wonderful and influential in helping me enjoy lots of amazing Saturn games so tell them I’m in their debt!!

[ripe valley]

Some of the brilliant minds behind the Saturn software emulators we used to have.

[burnt matrix]

amazing!!

[ripe valley]

Steve Kwok can emulate the floppy disk drive and the MPEG card on the last WIP version of the emulator.
Doing that on the MiSTer will be... tricky.

With the last version of yesterday, we are using 96% of LUT on the chip.
It's way higher than with the N64, and I don't see much more optimization on the code that could be done.

Maybe it's also one of the factors that the core could be stable for someone and crashing for another person.

[wise brook]

Nintendo were saved from themselves (and the sony juggernaut) by Game Freak's little rpg that could.

how different things would look if Pokémon had come to Game Gear

[burnt matrix]

RIGHT??

[wise brook]

even if it couldn't succeed on any other platform, the absence of Pokémon probably would have turned n64 into the dreamcast

[burnt matrix]

I feel like that’s not highlighted enough just how much Pokemon changed the course for Nintendo

[wise brook]

I would love to see a fan made GG port of Pokémon red

[burnt matrix]

that thought has never crossed my mind but holy shit that’s an awesome idea

[trim nimbus]

Nintendo’s lawyers would like to have a word….

[wise brook]

I would also like 5 minutes alone with Nintendo's lawyers

https://tenor.com/view/watchmen-gif-8794746

[silk mauve]

The lawyers are just a legal front. It's the ninjas that will get you

[ripe valley]

We were talking about devkits just before, a friend of mine just texted me that he has already finished his week of gamedev now.
Third PS5 devkit which fails on the disc drive at work since yesterday. Very fragile Blu Ray drive.

[silk mauve]

It would be great if someone made an ODE!

[ripe valley]

We must text Ken Kutaragi right now with the idea.

🤣

An ODE for a devkit.

(Okay, okay, no more silly jokes for the next hours)

[silk mauve]

Don't lie

[ripe valley]

Next question is : does Machi work on the core ? Good question from someone on Youtube.

[naive whale]

Lol you been reading my comments?

[ripe valley]

Yes, sometimes, I like your videos.

[burnt matrix]

someone has to

[tall radish]

So, I downloaded the lastest rev of the core and I have still the same (minor) issue than before, I don't know if it's a known issue. In Capcom Generation 5 (NTSC-J) in the "Collection" game mode (where you can access to artworks, and several bonuses), the resolution changes when I pick any options there (I guess it's normal) but there is a weird offset in 50% of the screen. (I play on a CRT TV)

[gloomy hedge]

@naive whale Im redownloading and recopying some games... how do I check a checksum?

[gloomy hedge]

it really wasnt

also is the 2022 redump better than the 2020? I have a feeling it might be...

[warped cliff]

Yeah, I kinda envied the people who had and kept their Saturns, as there were quite a few exclusives that you just couldn't enjoy on emulators

[naive whale]

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/finding-checksum-values-in-windows-10/dbc3c569-4b5a-4967-8810-c25255cdc1fd

I think there are apps too but I just use a dos prompt when I need to verify a file

[warped cliff]

So this core is really a godsend

[gloomy hedge]

its beyond that yeah

literally there is no way to play saturn with proper input lag

which means 99% of the shmups are unplayable

okay I dont mean unplayable but for someone like me who wants to clear the game, yes its annoying

[gloomy hedge]

noted hmm I'll learn later maybe

[naive whale]

My videos are too complicated for your average Texan

[warped cliff]

Yeah, there are so many playable games now, even with visual and audio glitches

The only gripe I might have is that the games don't all play at the correct speeds, but at least the controls are very responsive

[mortal steppe]

Tested last unstable on my 2.4 sdram, nothing changed for the issues addressed by ram

[earnest ginkgo]

Sorry to bother again, but when I press up to enter the config screen, I can't see anything at all related to the unstable channel...

[wooden dew]

I'm not sure if this has been noted yet but there was a regression on Outrun... Car is invisible

[ripe valley]

I've documented the issue weeks ago, it's a common problem on all HW and SW Saturn emulators.
The gallery needs a very precise simulation of VDP2 VRAM cycle pattern registers.

[tough star]

then use the 2nd alternative I gave you 🙂 @mortal steppe 🦊

[tough star]

@naive whale 🥓 🥓 🥓 🥓 🥓 🥓 🥓 🥓 🥚

[burnt matrix]

Core isn't completed, still lots of bugs an issues left (but we're getting close). CRT isn't the focus either so I expect that to be improved last.

[earnest ginkgo]

I'm happy to use the dedicated Vampier script if needed, just wondering now if something is off with my download_all script in that it's not showing me unstable channel options. Does update_all periodically update itself?

[burnt matrix]

It doesn't update itself and it doesn't have an unstable core option - https://github.com/theypsilon/Update_All_MiSTer

[earnest ginkgo]

Ah, cheers Rob. So the Vampier script is the way to go for Saturn unstables yeah?

[burnt matrix]

Yeah! Or manually adding it yourself from #unstable-nightlies message

[earnest ginkgo]

Gent Rob, appreciate it

[burnt matrix]

I appreciate you! Thanks for joining us here.

[tough star]

get a room

[tall radish]

Of course I understand. I'm extremely satisfied with my MiSTer, Every core than can happened from now are just bonus for me When I bought it I didn't even think a functional Saturn core would be possible and now we even got a N64 core. I'm really glad I bought one even though I have most of the consoles and games I play on it, the practicality and the multiple options and addons available on it are a real blessing for me!

[tough star]

cherry blossom fish?

[burnt matrix]

Yeah you're completely right. The amount of new cores pushing the MiSTer is amazing to see.

[tough star]

I think the Pi emulators are still more cycle accurate

the de10 nano is just very overpriced

even my pi zero does this stuff

[earnest ginkgo]

Booked 🤔

[tall radish]

https://tenor.com/view/powerpuff-girls-teenager-blossom-drinking-cell-phone-gif-128010905779103756

Cherry Blossom ?

[tough star]

Sakura means cherry blossom

[tall radish]

It also means that also! But Sakura is just the character from Fate/Stay Night

Just an old meme I used to like...

[tough star]

I think you missed the enormous animated GIF I posted

[tall radish]

Indeed I did

[burnt matrix]

@tough star is the MSX collection for Saturn worth playing?

[gloomy hedge]

what did I just ocme back to

[ancient surge]

Fish posting. 🐟

[gloomy hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/fish-slap-w2s-slap-funny-sidemen-gif-20599048

robby showin up like

[tough star]

it's a konami collection - so if you feel like doing so it's worth playing

[tawny forge]

Aktane slaps Robby around a bit with a large trout

[burnt matrix]

Should I play those on the MSX core instead?

[tough star]

yes - the emulation on those versions isn't exactly spot on

[frail token]

I mean the emulation in MSX isn't spot on

[tough star]

@frail token after 21 years of working on it the openMSX is the most accurate you'll ever get to document the MSX

every chip has been probed/tested/dissected

every trace has been traced... and every VDP timing issue has been resolved

[frail token]

that's my bad I was thinking X68k core lol

sometimes my brain mixes them up

is OpenMSX the MiSTer core?

[hearty marten]

I think it’s a software emulator 🙂

[frail token]

Then I'm lost lol

I did goof big time though

[tough star]

software emulator - but a lot of the code was used for the OCM core

[frail token]

that's badass

[sacred goblet]

Steve kwok is always active on nova?

[tough star]

@frail token openMSX is my main gig 🙂 https://romdb.vampier.net/index.php?show=643 although I have spend more time into the MiSTer stuff for the last 2 years

[frail token]

cause you're awesome

I deeply apologize for confusing the X68K for the MSX

[tough star]

not really - I just like this hobby

[frail token]

I will never live it down

[tough star]

@frail token the x86k is awesome too - but more modern

[frail token]

yeah but the core for that has some issues which is what I was thinking of

like Castlevania

so it kinda made sense in my head!

[tough star]

on the MSX it's called Vampire Killer 😄

(yes my nick is based on the game... in a weird way)

[naive whale]

So many jokes to make here. But they are all bad 😂

[ripe valley]

He is working on it, I had some news like 2 months ago and he was rewriting the whole soft.

[gloomy hedge]

"redumped the netlink version of s.rally"

lets see how this goes

wtf

music in the intro

oh cut out lol

sound completely cut out 100%, thats new lol

aaaaand white screen of death

Burning rangers intro crashed