Sony PlayStation

[manic citrus]

the big change in spring of last year was the updates for the new i/o board

[tropic stratus]

this change for example is not in my dev repo: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Template_MiSTer/commit/2b795444020ed774a4e8b4560471c7ba50bbe0ca

[manic citrus]

one thing that potentially touches sysmem in the i/o board change

set_false_path -to   {sysmem|fpga_interfaces|clocks_resets*}```

that's also the update/same time as the mysterious audio issues on the new i/o boards that get fixed by seed changing

[chilly kraken]

https://tenor.com/bp3Er.gif

[manic citrus]

CAROLE

[tropic stratus]

maybe worth throwing out this false paths and see what happens. Worst case we get some timing failure

from the looks I can't even see what it does...

[manic citrus]

and then you get the fun of 'did this fix it or did I just get 55 lucky builds in a row?'

[tropic stratus]

hmm, this clocks_resets module seems to generate the 100mhz clock that is used for scaler ddr3 access?

I think you found it @manic citrus :
i have some old wonderswan build from 2023 and doing a timing check on this clock, it delivers paths in the scaler.
Doing the same with a recent build it shows zero paths.
So basically it looks like the whole 100mhz clock(used for ddr3) inside the scaler is not timing checked at all

you could remove that false path line, do a build and check in time quest you see paths for this clock again. If yes, i'm pretty sure it was the root cause

even easier: check Fmax.
sysmem clock is gone in recent builds

[manic citrus]

wonder why sorg added that. guess it is time to build some cores and see if the scaler issue pops up again

[abstract drift]

wizards!

[chilly kraken]

oh sure, After I build 60 PSX cores :p

[manic citrus]

also a deeper conspiracy to go down here. didn't the audio issues sometimes get resolved by changing video output?

[chilly kraken]

yes

no audio issues when it's set to svideo

has to be RGB or ypbpr

[worldly hound]

How do I create a new blank memory card?

[serene nebula]

@worldly hound download that

[worldly hound]

ty!

[serene nebula]

I added it to the important info pin

[hidden mist]

__ [ 𝙈𝙞𝙎𝙏𝙚𝙧 ] FaST FaCTs __

Did you know? The PSX core uses memory cards with an extension "mcd" because everyone who uses a MiSTer loves McDonalds and we wanted a way to celebrate that.

[chilly kraken]

Ring that bell to subscribe to more

[mortal oracle]

@somber steppe

[glacial orbit]

really living up to the name, just bearing that cross for all of us 🫡

[clear rock]

I am guessing it would take up the SNAC port so you would have to choose between SNAC controllers/memcards or link cable?

[chilly kraken]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[clear rock]

Would it be possible to submit a feature request for that disk swap thing I talked about before?

[spring elk]

Give a man a core and he's satisfied for a day.
Teach a man how to build his own cores and he's satisfied for a lifetime.

[glacial orbit]

According to Robert, the Link Cable needs pinouts that the Analog I/O is hogging already, its just not viable, but whoever is willing to do the work can

[clear rock]

More like he will be swearing at his own code trying to make it work for a lifetime

[clear rock]

The pins used for Analog I/O? You would need to specifically use those and can't use the ones going to the SNAC port?

[glacial orbit]

apparently, its not enough

[clear rock]

Huh, well if Robert says so, not like I know anything about this. I looked it up and the serial port uses 7 pins so I assumed that's enough since the SNAC port has more pins than that

[glacial orbit]

I mean, if it was viable, someone would've clearly added it by now

[tropic stratus]

I looked at it years ago, I cannot remember the details, sorry

[tropic stratus]

Without the 60 builds and giving a broken one to Zakk, this mysterious chain of events would have never happened.
(and your constant complaining about it probably helped, too 😛 )

[chilly kraken]

My mom always said I was an excellent complainer

Are you guys pretty convinced this is it? Or can I lend my cpu to some dse?

[tropic stratus]

It would be good to have new releases for psx+2x and n64+turbo core with the line removed, because when timing is checked, it's "safe" that the issue is gone for all de10-nano around the world

This would also be a pretty good test, given how difficult it was to find a good timing build without the issue

But I haven't yet tested that the scaler clock timing checks comes back when removing the line, will do in the evening if no one else is faster

[chilly kraken]

If you check it and it checks out, merge the changes and I’ll start building. (Potentially) not having to deal with scaler stuff makes the whole thing quicker because it’s just about finding the best build out, like, 20

Which is a 4 hour endeavor, rather than 12

We can just check the top 7 or 8 turbo builds and see if any of them have scaler issues

[tropic stratus]

it could be that timing gets harder to reach if the build process has to care for the scaler<->ddr3 as well

Also also we need to see what the issue was that led to introducing this line, as it will come back when we remove it

I mean, the issue will be some timing error popping up. Maybe always, maybe from time to time.
Could be we need a modified false path for a different signal in this module

So to make things short: first it needs to be tested in 1 core, then merged to template, then cores can be updated and rebuilt

[chilly kraken]

I do love a sys update

[manic citrus]

it might be worth asking Sorg why he did that and let him know it might be causing issues

[tropic stratus]

I currently don't have any contact to him

[lusty coral]

@chilly kraken if you need any of the turbo cores tested, let me know.

I'm always happy to help testing turbo cores as I think they are the best cores for the mister. The hidden gem cores..

[manic citrus]

I can at least relay a message, but if he asks me real questions we're out of luck 😉

I built ten cores and got 3 that met timing and none had scaler corruption, but I have to try them on my pi/qmtech

[tropic stratus]

You could ask if he still remembers why he added it and can tell this removes any timing checks on the 100mhz clock used in the scaler and maybe some other parts as well.
Maybe he can still remember which signal really was the issue, so we can strip down the false path or maybe it wasn't even important and we can remove it completly.

Or maybe I should just install that app and contact him 😅

[mortal oracle]

SorgMessenger

[soft granite]

I know MiSTer has negligible latency and that's top of the reasons why so many such as myself have bought up but I'm curious in comparison how much latency has Duckstation for example. I'm only asking as I've been giving it a runabout over the weekend and it felt to me at least a seriously great way to play PSX games. Granted I wasn't playing any twitchy platformers or the like but everything I did play felt response enough.

It's unlike for me at least to replace Mister as my go-to way for playing PSX games but as I found out particularly since the emulator itself is now so mature, it's a seriously fantastic way to play PSX and if you didn't have a MiSTer I'd go so far as to say it's perhaps not worth making the leap, if PSX is your sole interest.

[frail storm]

Is this the line that can be removed to solve scaler issues in the cores in general? (I am seeing them in my ao486 builds)

[mortal oracle]

Doesn’t it depend on how performant your computer is, and what settings you run with?

That’s one of the main reasons for jumping to FPGA to me. I no longer need to worry if my computer is good enough, what background processes might start running, or if I’m using optimal settings

[soft granite]

Entirely agree and as somebody who's not had anything closer to what you'd label a 'gaming' pc for over 20 years I've generally not dabbled with this type of emulation. However...

While I only have a Microsoft Surface 10 and so no dedicated GPU I still figured I'd give it a shot. At my end I was running PS1 games at 1080/1440p internally with no performance penalty that I noticed. Everything looked and ran great.

This is all with a Surface laptop. Nothing you'd ever buy for gaming. I was even able to play PS2 games via PCSX2 at the same nearabouts resolutions, no small thanks I think to these emulators being very, very performant now.

[soft granite]

I hear this but even using PSX core on mister still has numerous settings...

[serene nebula]

DuckStation is fantastic, yes

One of the best emulators out there in terms of maturity, feature set, and user interface,

[soft granite]

And PCSX2 - certainly based on my testing over the weekend.

[serene nebula]

Yup, and same emulation author helps there too

[soft granite]

You can feel that in its DNA.

[serene nebula]

DuckStation is my second favorite way to play PS1 games right behind the PSX core. An actual PS1 is my third favorite way to play.

[soft granite]

I'm a noob and often can't get these things running but it's about as plug n play as possible.

[serene nebula]

Yes, I think emulation authors are realizing that thanks to DuckStation. Accessibility is nearly as important as performance,

This is why Mednefen is hardly used.

[soft granite]

Yeah. Same. I have a PS2 so PS1 backwards compatibility and I find no good reason to hook them up now with these available options.

[serene nebula]

You could have the best emulator in the world but if no one knows how to use it, it’s completely useless.

[mortal oracle]

fwiw I wasn’t criticising duckstation - just saying that the nice thing about MiSTer is that it’s largely “set and forget”. I very rarely need to think about my settings/config

[soft granite]

Precisely. The only thing I changed honestly was the internal resolution, bumping it up to a level that didn't hurt performance for my meager machine. Even I was surprised 1440p worked flawlessly.

I feel for me at least I needn't ever want to own or use PS1 or PS2 real hardware.

Not got everybody but for me at least this does the job - and then some.

[mortal oracle]

In fact, the only toggles I tend to mess around with are visual ones - e.g. cropping, and that becomes an obvious one that I see, rather than performance options that are less obvious

No more “this doesn’t feel quite right, I wonder if…”

[serene nebula]

I do think this core and several others need a settings consistency pass and a lot of features need to be further gated to minimize option bloat.

Unfortunately I don’t know how to code or otherwise I’d do it,

[mortal oracle]

Or databases everywhere

||I’m kidding||

[hallow quartz]

Stenzek added the Vulcan backend and added some much needed features but fell out with the main developers about a year ago and is no longer involved.

[serene nebula]

Oh nevermind, lol. Thanks for correcting me.

[hallow quartz]

You are right in saying that a lot of the nice UI features matching Duck are thanks to them though, they for sure made it a better emulator to set up and use.

[empty yacht]

Has he removed linux from duckstation yet?

[serene nebula]

Oh cool, that’s nice to hear. PCSX2 is my favorite way to play PS2. It’s so great.

[hallow quartz]

Like they didn't have features as basic as integer scaling or a sharp bilinear output option instead of a horrible full screen blur before him. Better frame pacing, input latency reduction options, so many little things that made the output FAR better than it was before, I'm glad they got that stuff implemented.

[coral minnow]

Vulkan is always such a nice thing to have in emulators that can make use of the gpu

[hallow quartz]

Yup, Vulcan gives the blending accuracy setting much lower overhead which is great. It's a shame he left before Themaister's Vulcan compute work was complete, as we could have the accuracy of the software renderer with the speed of a hardware renderer (like the Parallel plugins for N64), unfortunately it looks like that one will stay Retroarch exclusive for the time being. https://themaister.net/blog/2024/07/03/playstation-2-gs-emulation-the-final-frontier-of-vulkan-compute-emulation/

[serene nebula]

I remember when our engine programmers were all excited for integrating Vulkan on DOOM 2016. I just made Star Trek jokes lol.

[mortal oracle]

Retroarch exclusive? 🤢

[mortal oracle]

That’s very cool though. Thanks for sharing

[dense wharf]

pov youre at id software in 2016 on the engineering team, and are discussing intergration of vulkan. then you see this guy coming down, you know that the star trek jokes are not far behind

[hallow quartz]

Fingers crossed someone with the right skill set will come along and add it to PCSX2 too.

[manic citrus]

maybe, we're still investigating. it might be worth giving it a shot and seeing if you don't get scaler issues as frequently

[tropic stratus]

i tried a first build with the n64 core and the timing was horrible for the core cpu. But the 100mhz for scaler are fulfilled (barely) and no scaler issue

hopefully this was just bad luck

second build is better but still not great. Probably need to check with DSE if any good are still possible

[manic citrus]

Alexey says "it's just resets I don't think it should cause such problem". I think we need better proof. he also doesn't remember why he added it, lol

[tropic stratus]

i mean, he can check the timing on the "sysmem|fpga_interfaces|clocks_resets|h2f_user0_clk" on any build. There are no paths, but there should be some 🙂

[manic citrus]

10 cores that met timing, none have obvious scaler corruption on de10/qmtech/pi

[chilly kraken]

If you want to send them to me, I can check on my misters as well

[tropic stratus]

thank you for building and testing. I only have a small sample size for n64 now (also no scaler issues), haven't used DSE yet

[chilly kraken]

So no obvious scaler issues but builds 12868, 22621, 4134, and 6183 have a bob bug. hold on, let me get a video

See how jumpy it is?

This is how it should look

goes away if I select weave

[opal carbon]

My limited understanding of Bob is that it’s bad at static images in general? Does the new method mitigate that in a way that’s not happening in some of the builds?

[manic citrus]

I'm not even 100% sure which bob these builds have now that I think about it. can't remember if I pulled latest

[abstract drift]

they should all be the same though right? thats odd

[frail storm]

According to sorg, that like shouldn't do anything to the scaler:
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/ao486_MiSTer/issues/205
Maybe he's wrong or it only affects the N64 core?

[manic citrus]

we're still investigating things...

really Robert and Sorg need to talk about it

[mortal oracle]

A meeting of the elders of the FPGA council

[serene nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/botafumeiro-censer-incense-thurible-the-way-gif-14499700

WE ARE SUMMONING THE FPGA ELDER COUNCIL

[wild sinew]

One of the Megadrive games that uses it is Sonic 2.

Never mind, that was an old message

[manic citrus]

yay. Sorg removed it in the template

Jesusfish CPUs spin up

[mortal oracle]

The council has decreed that scalar issues shall be no more!

[spring elk]

...if that was indeed the cause of it. 😏

[chilly kraken]

https://tenor.com/buz7X.gif

[spring elk]

"Your scaler is mine!"

[chilly kraken]

21 builds (2 met timings), zero scaler issues across 3 misters

@manic citrus Your new bob is a purity detector. I only get the shakey screen (again, only under some cores) if vsync_adjust is set to 0

It punishes sin.

[manic citrus]

bob (even old bob) starts to be weird if the input and output framerates don't match

the more they don't match the worse it gets

[chilly kraken]

but shouldn't that be consistent across builds?

[manic citrus]

one would hope

the best part is weave reads just as much data out of ddr3

[nimble pond]

Hey guys

Casual conversation for anyone who's into it

What is all this "seed 10,seed 8," stuff? It sounds like the compiler is quirky or something

If its even called a compiler

[abstract drift]

basically the compiler is none-deterministic - its solving travelling salesman (very famous math problem) using an approximate method that relies on some randomness

the seed affects the randomness so changing it can get you a better build sometimes

[nimble pond]

Randomness means in this context that it will screw up?

[abstract drift]

not always screw up, just different

[nimble pond]

And what is the methodology to get the right one? Testing amd seeing?

[abstract drift]

yeah there's no methodology

just have to try it

[restive plover]

think of it as the path you picked on your gps gets a traffic jam making it less than ideal

[nimble pond]

Testing and seeing is a methodology 😂

Good old trial and error

[abstract drift]

its unusual for this to be such a problem, its worse because the PSX core uses up most of the fpga resources

[nimble pond]

But with permanent consequences for the build? I.e. Stuff will break, unexpected behavior, bugs

[abstract drift]

yeah trial and error but also like, you can't binary chop, there is no actual like, contiuum or anything where seed 7 might be bad and 9 good and 8 somewhere inbetween

[nimble pond]

So you'll Never run into this with, say, the atari2600 core?

[abstract drift]

some people dont even bother with the seed value you can just add random whitespace to the code and it has the same effect

probably not no

[manic citrus]

you can still run into it, it's just less likely because the process has more room to work with it so it can path things better/easier

there are physical constraints to this pathing. like you want things that use sdram to be near sdram pins etc

[abstract drift]

the most common effect people notice is the scaler tends to start glitching out so you'll get some weird colored pixels etc

its kind of the canary in the coalmine though in theory it could be anything

[nimble pond]

Interesting stuff

But now I'm wondering why the scaler is the most common to break

[chilly kraken]

because Robert is a wizard and the scaler hates magic tricks

sorry illusions

[nimble pond]

🤣

[chilly kraken]

(really it looks like something that was added a year ago with new IO boards that sorg just removed - so it may no longer be an issue)

more testing required

[nimble pond]

And all Compilators are like this?

Or is this quartus exclusive?

[abstract drift]

all fpga compilation is like this

regular software compilers dont do it

[nimble pond]

Point for software compilers

[clear rock]

I thought that problem was solved?

[tropic stratus]

The randomness only means that your starting conditions are different.
Imagine 5 people driving to some destination.
The only thing that matters is that none of them needs longer than 30 minutes.
If they drive in a city without other cars and traffic lights(Atari2600), this is easy.
If they drive in city with godzilla walking around(PSX), one of them might get screwed, so you might change the conditions for a better chance.

Now this all seems reasonable to solve, unless their cars are just not fast enough to do it even without traffic(n64, AO486).
However, if for one of the 5, you do not measure the time it took at all, (scaler clock path not constrained)
then it's pure luck if it was below 30 minutes or above(causing the random bug).

I hope this is somewhat understandable?

[clear rock]

No way to do automated testing of it? Like, generate 10 or so and make them all perform the same task and record the result?

I remember reading years ago someone was using a rudamentary neural net to create some kind of audio filter on a fpga with that method

(Though it failed miserably for other reasons related to how it was creating the filter)

[tropic stratus]

Yes, you can multiple at the same time. That is what the "design space explorer" is for.
It also measures the timing itself and tells you which is fulfilling timing or at least closest.
The only issue is if you miss to have timing constraints like we had for the scaler until recently.
It's solved, will not happen anymore, we can trust the timing analysis again.
If it says: no timing failure, then the FPGA will work the same as a different one with no timing failure on all FPGAs ever sold by Altera. That is their promise.

(also the reason the n64 core works at all, their promise is so good, FPGAs are typically about 50% faster than they claim they are)

[clear rock]

The engineer in me feels like that's a redundancy just to be safe than a it's so good thing. Kind of like how CDs can technically hold close to a gig of data if you used the space normally reserved for error correction to just plain store more data

[chilly kraken]

Do we think that change that sorg made would have impact outside just your scaler bug? I ask because Paul and SRG are chasing an snes bug where cx4 games (megaman x2 and x3) don’t work on some boards, but work fine on others, even though the cores pass timing

[tropic stratus]

Unlikely, unless they use the same 100Mhz clock as the scaler uses.
More likely is that it's either another timing constraint/false path or external constraints that the tool doesn't cover at all, e.g. SDRAM

I can still remember someone here also having some issue with one DE10-Nano since I made some SDRAM controller change in the PSX core, but no one could ever reproduce

[clear rock]

Are the cores starting to push the hardware to the point where small manufacturing differences that would be whthin tolerance can actually cause problems?

[tropic stratus]

not if timing is fulfilled. If it isn't like for n64 and ao486, maybe, yes. But mostly if you push them (ao486 at 90 or 100mhz, n64 turbo core)

[nimble pond]

Amazing explanation, thank you zumspass

[north oracle]

Hi, I am having a issue when playing certain games on the PSX core with SNAC. Sometimes during certain screens on some games inputs are very unresponsive. For example on Gran Turismo 2 in the menus, and Tales of Phantasia on the save screen, etc. Has anyone experienced what I am talking about?

I can record some examples if needed

[clear rock]

Hmm, wonder if that is related to saving since the memcard port and controller port are esentially the same port

[north oracle]

Hmm interesting. Also to note that all inputs have the same effect as a turbo/autofire feature (Gran Turismo 2 Title Screen). It's very strange. Seems to vary alot depending on the game

[north oracle]

you were right! i switched the setting from virtual memory card -> real and the issue is gone!

but now i cant save and load data haha

oh dear

i dont have a SNAC that can read a real card

[clear rock]

Well, you have to use Virtual cards if your SNAC adapter does not let you use real ones

[north oracle]

i was using virtual yeah

i guess ill flip it to virtual whenever i want to save and swap it to real when playing

[short heron]

"Memcard Pro 2 doesn’t work via PSX Multitap"
Yeah, you have to power these externally because the Multitap itself doesn't provide enough power 🙁 Had the same issue with my PSxMemCard Gen2, but it works fine with external power (via USB). To be fair, this is an issue affecting real hardware as well, so it's not the SNAC (or SNAX64 in my case) to blame assuming the same is true of Memcard Pro 2.

[clear rock]

Does the memcard pro 1 or 2 work on mister without a multitap?

[short heron]

They both should, in theory, if the adapters being used are providing the same voltage/current to the port as the original console's internal mem card ports, but I haven't got the means to test anything like that.

[cosmic tulip]

Solution
https://crownarcade.co.kr/product/sony-playstation-snac-adapter-for-mister-fpga/25/category/1/display/2/

[north oracle]

Very nice, I noticed on misteraddons it states that PSX memory cards are supported for SNAX64, but I don't see any adapter available to use them.

[serene nebula]

Man, that is really nice but $75 + shipping for something that only works on the PS1 core is tough to swallow.

And it requires its own power adapter?

[proven seal]

it's nice for playstation fans i suppose

considering one so i can use the pocketstation...

[spark ermine]

It comes with a sticker too

[glossy geyser]

The SuperStation is another option with built-in Memory Card slots if you're good at playing the waiting game

[serene nebula]

The pocket station is cool as hell

[serene nebula]

Nah I’m good, I’ve got a multitap

Maybe if I didn’t have a MiSTer or a multi tap?

[glossy geyser]

Same, but it's good that more options are coming on the market

[serene nebula]

Ok good lord, this de minions thing sucks. Ok so $75 + $31.46 shipping + $11.25 tarrifs means the grand total for that PSX SNAC adapter is an insane $117.71 and it only works on the PS1 core!

That is such a hard pass, for me.

But it looks so nice!!

[glossy geyser]

Afaik the memory card shares the same data lines as the controller on PS1. If you're good with a soldering iron you should be able to make your own memory card slot on an existing SNAC?

[serene nebula]

Hey really good point.

I have no clue what I’m doing so I need to pay the dummy tax lol.

[proven seal]

i suck at that game

[opal carbon]

When I power it via USB, in most games (Gran Turismo 2 for example) the analog sticks shut off on the controller after a few seconds.

[cosmic tulip]

Doesnt require. Adds more power to it. Giving you stronger rumble and memcard pro use

[serene nebula]

Oh that’s good to know. Ok awesome, it being optional is super smart.

[clear rock]

IIRC I contacted them about that and they said to... Use a multitap...

[clear rock]

Same, it's a nice design but the price is rather high compared to other PSX SNAC adapters

[serene nebula]

It looks so good

[north oracle]

good to know thanks

[cosmic tulip]

Also its just really nice

the optional stickers makes it feel like hefty and real and shit

[opal carbon]

Multi tap + Snax + regular memory card works great. Memcard pro 2 gives me grief with the multi tap but regular cards are great

[clear rock]

I don't have a multi-tap, and that's a bit of a mess to just have memorycard support, I would rather get a SNAC adapter that just has memorycard ports

[cosmic tulip]

Those exist too

[short heron]

That's interesting... I'll need to see if that happens to me.

[serene nebula]

Yeah, the bulk of a multitap is a bit silly lol.

[opal carbon]

If’s be awesome you could verify, and I’ll keep my fingers crossed that time doing something wrong somehow. I’d love to find a solution. I have a dedicated SNAC adapter with a memory card slot but will one day want to play a multitap game and save. My current workaround is to use a normal memory card which is totally fine but I’d love to use my MCP2

The multitap is probably the cheapest non DIY way to get a real memory card port. SNAX lets you use other peripherals so you don’t need a dedicated adapter and I’ve never paid more than $20 for a multitap (had to buy two because one of mine had a bad memory card port lol)

For me I have the fewest issues in the core with SNAC and real memory cards (using a SNAC adapter with memory card support built in) and the mcp2 is REALLY nice to use with gameID support in MiSTer. All the convenience of virtual memory cards and I never have to remember to commit my memory cad file to memory via opening the menu. Plus automatic cloud backup! That being said, now that I worked out the issues I was having with my Reflex Adapt that setup is really nice, although my PSOne controllers still don’t work with it and there is some part of my brain that feels happier knowing that the analog signals are getting to the core the same way they were back in the day. Not really latency concern more of a “things are working like they should with no software in between” thing.

[serene nebula]

We call those brain worms.

[short heron]

Yeah, I'll check if it affects my setup by tomorrow, as the only difference I have is that I'm using the PSxMemCard Gen2 instead of Memcard Pro 2, but they seem to have similar (if not identical) power demands and quirks, I'm really curious to see if this works or will have the same fault you're experiencing... if there's any difference, I will be surprised and it will end up requiring even more research lol.

But I am wondering the exact scenario that this happens in. I guess I can start by just testing with some games with analog support and see if I notice any such issues... Curious to know if you're using a DualShock or a DualShock 2, as that might be relevant info.

I have both DS1 and DS2 on hand to test, but I want to try and reproduce your issue as closely as possible just so I can say definitively "yep, happens to me too" or not.

[opal carbon]

I’m using first gen DualShocks SCPH-1200 and you’ll notice it pretty fast in GT2 if you have the same issues. The analog button shouldn’t stay lit for long and the sticks will stop working.

[short heron]

Cool, I'll give it a go.

[opal carbon]

Super appreciate it! I’m traveling but happy to test specific things on my end as well when I’m back in a few days.

[short heron]

Most I can do is confirm whether it happens to me or not. As far as finding an actual solution, I'll probably be pretty useless 🤣 took me a while to think of trying to power the memory card externally before I figured that one out, even.

[opal carbon]

Same! Then I was bummed when it stopped working. Hoping that maybe I’m just doing something weird or my mcp2 is configured weird.

[short heron]

How'd you manage to get GameID working?

Wondering if it doesn't work for me because I'm using CHDs or if it's something else.

Or I need the patched BIOS... which I guess I could also do 😅
Edit: yeah, that did it.

[short heron]

Alright, I've reached a conclusion: No such issue here. I've mirrored your setup as much as possible and analog control works continuously for me (as it should). 🤔

Hmm, interesting. I did finally experience a cut-out, but it didn't happen until my fourth lap...

Got it to happen again, so it's definitely not just you at least. Seems most likely that it's a voltage issue with the multitap (the same kind of thing that makes the memory cards require external USB power, funny enough).

It's possible this would also happen on real hardware, and I might test that if I get super bored sometime.

[opal carbon]

Glad you found the BIOS patches! It works great, although as I start digging deeper into weird issues I might swap to OEM BIOS just to eliminate variables. It shouldn’t matter but 🤷. Bummer you have a similar issue - it does seem like a multitap voltage thing but I’m confident that my setup is feeding it the proper 7.5V at the controller port.

I don’t have real hardware to test with but I’ll mess with my setup more and see if I can find any kind of rhyme or reason.

[short heron]

Yeah, I'm curious so I'll probably end up testing on a PS1 and PS2 as well. I do have a strong suspicion this will happen on the PS1 at least, and likely not the PS2, based on the fact that the PS2 ports, in my testing, have even been able to correctly handle the PSxMemCard Gen2 in the multitap... something MiSTer and PS1 seemingly cannot do.

It may also be worth noting that in my limited testing, this happened with the DualShock but I haven't been able to get it to happen with DualShock 2 yet.

[serene nebula]

What’s the bios patch for?

[short heron]

GameID support on SD2PSX type memory cards.
Basically handles automatic VMC creation and switching per title.

[serene nebula]

that’s necessary for the mem card pro?

[short heron]

Not necessary, just an extra feature.

Without it, VMCs need to be switched manually, as desired, and VMCs are labeled with card numbers rather than by the GameID.

Alright, I'm preparing myself to be surprised if this doesn't behave the same as on MiSTer.

[serene nebula]

That’s cool

[short heron]

Time to eat my hat. Can't reproduce on real hw...

[opal carbon]

This sounds crazy but I wonder if the patched BIOS has anything to do with it. When I get home I’ll test with the stock BIOS and see.

I also will test with my PS2 controllers and my SCPH-110 (PSOne) controllers and see if there’s any difference. I actually find the PS2 controllers to be less finicky I just don’t like the button feel as much.

[clear rock]

Wonder if it would be possible to have this feature added to the PSX core, the game ID thing so the MemcardPro can auto-switch, ODEs on PSXes already do it, and even tonyhax I think can do it

Hmm, speaking of SNAC as well, has anyone done any sort of pinout for connecting an actual PSX controller port to the SNAC port? As in, pulled out of a broken PSX? The two controller and memcard ports appear to be a single unit connected by a ribbon cable.

I still have mine from my old broken first PSX

[grand sage]

If you get one of these PCBs and solder the pins in the same order, this works. I ended up using both sides. (Sawed it in half) Works like a charm, memory cards and all. https://fxtwitter.com/blindrezo/status/1680861189130125312

blindrezo (@blindrezo)

I did a thing...

**💬 2 🔁 1 ❤️ 5 👁️ 230 **

FxTwitter · Jul 17, 2023, 8:45 AM

[grand sage]

Should be able to see what each of the pins maps to if you look close enough to the PCB. Currently I'm abroad, so that old picture is the best I could do.

[clear rock]

I remember seeing that when I was looking into it, but any way to not have to cut it in half? Is there a way I can just plug the existing ribbon cable into a pcb?

[grand sage]

Maybe using a multimeter to map out the pins, or find something online about it... Though I imagine soldering to the tiny ribbon pins would be ... well, scary to me!

[forest trench]

I imagine that's what's being used here

Not sure how it's connected inside that adapter, but you could just do a custom PCB with the same ribbon connector

[opal carbon]

Not in the core but patching the PSX BIOS and running it in MiSTer works.

https://github.com/jdfr228/PS1-Disc-Based-Game-ID

[clear rock]

Yeah, I am no expert in soldering, but I managed to somehow solder the USB 3.0 connectors to several DIY SNAC connectors without an issue. I actually had more issue with one of the SNES controller ports than the USB plug

But I meant if these are some kind of standard than maybe I can get a connector for it

If not well, pretty sure the ribbon cable is not soldered on the other end either, I can probably find replacements

[clear rock]

Is it not possible to do with the core?

[opal carbon]

Not sure! I suspect you can read gameid out of the iso as you’re mounting it in main but patched BIOS seems just as good?

[clear rock]

Does the patched bios cause any problems with anything else? Or if you use virtual cards?

Or just an original real card?

[opal carbon]

Not that I know of. Normal cards seem to work fine. @short heron and I both are experiencing some instability with SCPH-1200 Dual Shock controllers via the multi-tap while using Memcard Pro 2 but I don’t believe the BIOS is the cause of that issue. Need to test more when I’m home from vacation.

There are issues using virtual cards and SNAC combined, but that’s not due to the BIOS

[short heron]

I'll expand my tests too. Some things I still need to try, like using an official memory card. Might as well narrow the issue down as much as possible so we can really figure out what's the cause.

[clear rock]

I am not 100% sure but I think that is a power issue, it's why some of the SNAC adapters for PSX have a power input

But yeah, I would love to be able to use a memcard pro on my mister, without having to use a multitap or running into such issues

[opal carbon]

I’m using a Crown Arcade SNAC adapter and the Memcard Pro 2 works great with it.

[hearty cliff]

Hi folks, could someone please help me diagnose this issue with the graphic corruption. I have tried, various PS cores, changing PSUs, changing HDMI cables, changing monitor, changing bios (all checkout as MD5 correct), toggling all display options in the core, removing AV board, different region options and I am completely out of ideas. 😕

[chilly kraken]

what game is that? I can take a look

[ivory verge]

Bios game 😅

[chilly kraken]

oh, the best game

Have you done a memtest, @hearty cliff (apologies if you have - this is the first time I've seen your issue)

[hearty cliff]

@chilly kraken - Not sure if this helps but this is what memtest looks like after 5-10 minutes

[chilly kraken]

Is this a DE10? or a clone board? If the latter, which one?

[hearty cliff]

It came from retro remakesbatch 4

Same one I posted about in the help thread yesterday

[chilly kraken]

ahh right right

now I remember

date on your PSX build is 25.08.25 yeah?

[hearty cliff]

Yes the very latest

And I tried the previous core posted in this thread

PSX_20240922.rbf

[chilly kraken]

my batch 4 (hopefully) gets here tomorrow. I'm curious if I can reproduce on that. Does teh issue show up in games too?

[hearty cliff]

Yes so games boot but the video is a mess

Other cores are all good

No hurry, keen to hear how you get on with your batch 4 board

[chilly kraken]

@shadow root @shadow kiln If you guys see this, can you boot up the PSX core and let us know if it looks weird to you

Looking for weird graphical bugs like #1046940919607345272 message

[chilly kraken]

can you take a pic just so we know what "a mess" looks like?

[chilly kraken]

ok, definitely a standard metric mess

[shadow kiln]

Mine looks totally normal

[fluid raft]

I have a batch 4. I will test it and report back as soon as possible

[fluid raft]

Everything is ok at my side. No graphical bugs. Bach 4 - Single Ram

[chilly kraken]

Perfect thank you 🙂

[shadow root]

Yeah all good on my end. I was playing FF VII and SOTN yesterday and it was perfect.

[chilly kraken]

ok good

[serene nebula]

SotN is mandatory to play on the MiSTer, glad you’re taking ownership seriously

[opal carbon]

Do other cores work?

[hearty cliff]

@opal carbon Yep other cores perfectly fine

[opal carbon]

Wild. Even the Saturn core?

[hearty cliff]

Yes - I still memory alerts from a couple of titles but majority are fine

I wonder if installing mister on an ultrawide at 1600p done something crazy to the video settings

Contemplating a clean install at this point

[chilly kraken]

probably not. but it wouldn't hurt if you have a spare SD card lying around to just install mr fusion on it, and see what a fresh install looks like

[hearty cliff]

Success !!! - I think there's some confusion about which bios files to use

There's no need for scph5500.bin scph5502.bin etc if you have used update_all.sh - woops (sorry new to this project and still learning)

Thank you everyone who replied in this thread - I'm so impressed with the mister community spirit 🙂

[lilac scaffold]

the bios DB is a lifesaver

[hearty cliff]

There needs to be a big sticky that says run update_all before you do anything else

For newbies

[lilac scaffold]

it's not an official part of the mister 'ecosystem' due to the stuff it does, but still... yeah 🙂

[glossy geyser]

I don't think anyone would be surprised by this but I got a chance to try out Wipeout 1 and it's the same old story https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PSX_MiSTer/issues/323#issuecomment-3247848161

[opal carbon]

Did some further testing with the Memcard Pro 2 through a multitap using a SNA(X) adapter. Tried my Crown Arcade SNAC adapter (with 7.5v power supply) that can power the MCP2 just fine directly, but when I attach a Sony Multitap the MCP2 boot loops until I provide it with USB power. I use Gran Turismo 2 Arcade mode to test and during a race my SCPH-1200 and SCPH-110 both will shut the analog sticks off after a few seconds (light goes off, sticks are inoperable) if the MCP2 is in the card slot. My PS2 controller seems to work fine and I can complete many laps with no issues, rumble works, etc.

I have two of each controller and each pair exhibits the same behavior.

Next I’ll test the same sets of controllers via the multitap going through a SNAX adapter and a Retrocastle PSX adapter. The Retrocastle PSX adapter is also able to power the MCP2 directly, but in the past had the same issue through the multitap (but I will test again more rigorously to confirm).

One other weird datapoint is the MCP2 will only boot in the multitap while connected to USB power but will remain functional when I remove the USB power adapter. It seems to only need it for boot, and boot loops right before the WiFi connection is made. I’ve tried deleting the WiFi network saved in the card but I don’t think it’s possible to disable the radio completely. If I remove the USB power from the card after it boots the card functions but the controller problem persists as if power was connected, which seems super weird to me.

I also tested the same controller configurations briefly with a standard memory card (it’s a cheap third party card) and the controllers seemed to work properly while using the multitap.

[lost coyote]

Will try testing later but I'm curious: what controller are you using?

[north oracle]

Dualshock 2 & Dualshock 1

[opal carbon]

You’re having this problem! https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PSX_MiSTer/issues/291#issuecomment-3063445490

It sounds crazy but you can fix it by loading a random virtual memory card into slot 2 and choosing Save Settings so that the core auto loads that memory card in slot 2 every time. Having something in slot 2 seems to fix it and it’s a mystery as to why.

Virtual memory card + SNAC is a hack and it seems like some games get upset. GT2 seems like the ultimate SNAC stress test for some reason, it’s my go-to test game.

[cosmic tulip]

Is there a blank memory card we could download somewhere

[forest trench]

There's a link to one on the github page:
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PSX_MiSTer

[cosmic tulip]

thank you

[north oracle]

Oh wow I didn't know save settings auto loads it afterwards everytime. I'll try it when I'm home thank you

[lost coyote]

After creating a save file, 2 out 3 times, my GT2 (JP version) worked with SNAC using a Dualshock 1 with the memory card set to virtual. In the other instance though, no input was being read by the game even from the start.

[opal carbon]

Interesting! Looks like more testing is required.

[serene nebula]

Back to the testing mines!

🪲 ⛏️🏃

[opal carbon]

Are you sure you had a card loaded in slot 2 each time?

[dusky ore]

Out of curiosity and to confirm, is this a virtual card only in slot 2, then either no card or a real card for slot 1?

(Along with a real controller for SNAC)

[dusky ore]

I don't know if it's been explained but I have a suspicion I know why this happens; I'm not as familiar with the PSX core's source but I did see something that stands out to me

Let me actually check something in GT2 to confirm, it's been a while since I've played it.

Right, think I'll need my real PS1 to check what I'm thinking here. Basically I need to check and see when and how often GT2 sends memory card commands

[opal carbon]

If you’re using a real card this shouldn’t happen, so the test case is virtual slot 1 populated with GT2 memory card and virtual slot 2 populated with any memory card.

And then, yeah, a real Dualshock controller. Seems to happen with SCPH-1200, SCPH-110 and the Dualshock 2

As well as the Negcon

[dusky ore]

So to confirm, when both virtual slots are populated, SNAC controller works fine?

[opal carbon]

Yes

In my testing at least

GT2 seems to really be a good test case since instability should happen within one lap

I use the Arcade disc

[dusky ore]

Good news is I have my PS1 (still got a bunch of stuff packed from a recent move but I found it)

Bad news is I know where my oscilloscope and logic analyzer are and the answer is "not in this state"

I'm actually missing all of my diagnostic tools and I need to grab a multimeter to diagnose an espresso machine so I'll find a basic logic analyzer (as well as a PS1 memory card)

[clear rock]

I don't understand how you are supposed to toggle dualshock mode on/off. you need to press up and down at the same time? how?

[opal carbon]

One direction is on and one is off

[clear rock]

Oh, I thought it was a toggle

[opal carbon]

It is with the Dualshock 4, clicking in the touchpad toggles dualshock mode on and off. Not sure why the other combinations are not toggles, since they’re also not re-mappable but that seems to be the case!

[clear rock]

I guess somehow the Mister is able to recognize the extra buttons of the PS4 controller

The xinput or directinput or whatever the spec is called that generic controllers use does not allow for extra buttons, it's a rather insnaely stupid move

My controller actually has an R4 and L4, they can only be used as a shortcut for other buttons, not as their own buttons, because of that nonsense

Which means for simulationg a dualshock, it would use up all the buttons in that spec and not be able to assign anything else as an extra button for mode toggle

And anything made to act as an Xbox or generic PC controller uses said spec

[serene nebula]

Behold, the best games for the PS1

[clear rock]

https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-barf-kotze-gif-8292097

Though I'm one to talk, yesterday I was playing some weird Japanese PSX game where I was defusing a bomb in an orange

[dusky ore]

Suzuki Bakuhatsu is really good though

[lilac scaffold]

i think pressing the dualsense trackpad acts as mouse click, which also acts as analog/digital PSX dualshock toggle

[lilac scaffold]

you've got a few options:
button combo as set in OSD ,with up/down as enable/disable (or vice versa, i forget)
map a spare button to it in 'define psx buttons' (there's a 'toggle dualshock' binding)
left mouse click to toggle

[clear rock]

Spare button? But wouldent every button that Mister recognizes from a usb controller be used up for the buttons a dualshock would have?

[lilac scaffold]

mister can recognise a lot of buttons, they just dont all get mapped in the main menu
Eg the SNES NTT pad with its full numpad

on a current xbox controller you have a full set of DS1 inputs with xbox button for OSD and share button for digital/analog

or could use a 2-button combo for OSD and use xbox button for savestates or FF

[dense wharf]

where's bubsy?

[serene nebula]

Oh yeah, I do have that too

[tulip moat]

I'll give Bubsy 3D credit for having the balls to make both endings fall on a sour note, where Bubsy gets trapped due to a mishap and the Woolies win.

It's like the game is self-aware that it's bad and is telling you that you will always lose no matter what.

[dense wharf]

this is my collection

[dawn axle]

Hey now Gex 3D was NOT that bad 😭

[vagrant moat]

Damn, Spider-Man has very scratchy sounding audio on the opening cine via PSIO

I wonder if that still happens if I use the core on MiSTer.

https://tenor.com/view/let's-find-out-bradley-hall-let's-discover-let's-check-it-out-gif-4567571401985359217

Part of my "which thingy shoudl I use more often" research

[proven seal]

we need a better playstation ode solution

for the time being the mister core is definitely the best way to play though imo

[cosmic tulip]

The Xstation guy is working on Mstation

whenever that will be done? fuck if I know

[proven seal]

love rama's work but i'm not holding my breath for the mstation coming out anytime soon with how slow his output tends to be

but i would love to be wrong

[vagrant moat]

Soooo... I played on my MiSTer and it hands down beats the PSIO.

Audio sounds much better, not scratchy and distorted like on the PS1 with PSIO.

Crazy.

Usually I prefer to play on the 'real deal' but if MiSTer is a better experience, that's what I guess I'll use?

Oh well, glad I have choices. I'd sure love another ODE solution tho.

[serene nebula]

With absolutely zero evidence to back my claim up, the MiSTer is the best way to play PS1, yes even over original hardware

[proven seal]

this has been my philosophy ever since i got into the mister. it's just that good

i do worry about weird bugs and edge cases with the psx mister core, but it's not enough to dissuade me from using it

[vagrant moat]

Truth. I still prefer the actual Sega Genesis over the MiSTer core, because the RGB output looks so damn good.

However, it seems to me the Playstation core is indeed superior possibly to the PSX that I got right here (modified)

I used to have the actual Spiderman disc, and I do have a mod-chipped PS1 I wouldn't mind testing a disc on

Just wanna see how the audio is in that Spiderman cine

[serene nebula]

I’ve got an unmodded PS1 and forty thousand games for it

[vagrant moat]

If it's clear on Mister, and the PS1 does worse audio, I might just go with Mister from now on

As for the NES and SNES, you do get much better picture thru MiSTer

Seeing the NES in RGB was quite something

[serene nebula]

And with the SNES the MiSTer core is more accurate than original hardware

[vagrant moat]

And seeing the SNES without that slight red shift color bleed thing was cool too

[serene nebula]

Crazy but true!

[vagrant moat]

I guess if you account for SNES revisions and all that right?

[serene nebula]

Just the click cycle thing

[vagrant moat]

Or are you referring to the speed/hertz

[proven seal]

i think what robby means is that some components can drift out of spec over decades

[vagrant moat]

Well, the SNES is weird...

It's the only console where teh chips seem to die more often than others

Some I just couldn't revive

[proven seal]

but honestly i prefer the snes core over a real snes + fxpak pro if for no other reason than it can play the spc7110 games

[proven seal]

that alone gives it the edge in my book

nes can look good with expensive rgb mods, and snes can look good if you hunt down a 1chip console... but the mister already does that out of the box without having to drop a fortune

[vagrant moat]

Gotcha, so that is deffo an edge

[proven seal]

for sure

more accurate sa-1 implementation than the fxpak pro as well

[vagrant moat]

Right. And that's why I never did mod my NES to use RGB.

I thought about doing it, I have multiple NES consoles, not sure if I will tho

[proven seal]

same here. nesrgb is great but expensive and can be difficult to install

[vagrant moat]

also, in some ways, i find the look of composite on an nes feels more 'right' in certain situations

it is what i remembered

so i kinda like having both options

messy composite, which i grew up with, and rgb if i am in a wine sipping mood

[proven seal]

most nes consoles don't even output rgb so composite is arguably the "truer" or more accurate look

[vagrant moat]

yes, true NES look is composite

i would guess that's what the devs saw when they made the games too

[proven seal]

i would imagine many devs tested their games on composite monitors

[vagrant moat]

especially in the 1980s

so many nes games were made in 85 and 86 i kinda doubt they used something else

[vagrant moat]

And holy crap the hoops you need to go through just to use the PSIO

The installation of the switch board is crazy

But maybe necessary

But the silly stuff is the whole deal with the challenge response stuff

To show you have an authentic copy...

[proven seal]

the switch board was needed at the time but nowadays i think there are ways to bypass the protection in software

the whole business with the psio firmware though is just a mess. the creator is an asshole and when he finally released the most recent update, it still wasn't what was promised. i'm glad both the psio itself and the firmware got cracked

even when it's all working, some games still have compatibility issues, and then there's the nonsense with cu2 sheets

[vagrant moat]

So I just updated my firmware for the first time since 2020

And the first bug it says it fixed was the one which crashed my Playstation

"Going back to the BIOS from the options and enabling the CD-ROM will no longer lock-up the system" which is exactly what I did lol 😄

Well, at least they're fixing bugs

[vagrant moat]

Everything eventually gets cracked

Not Bitcoin yet, somehow???

[proven seal]

that's true, but it seems to happen faster when the creator(s) is actively against it lol. it's like purposely challenging people

[vagrant moat]

Totally. It reallly is a frustrating ODE

[proven seal]

i think the hacked russian firmware actually might fix some more bugs than the official one

[vagrant moat]

Just so many issues... lol

[vagrant moat]

That is funny and actually makes sense.

The Russian version is essentially open source, kinda?

[proven seal]

seems so, thankfully

[vagrant moat]

More eyes on software and able to fix bugs is a great thing.

[proven seal]

for sure!

[vagrant moat]

To me the PSIO company just seems 'off' in many ways, including the weird behavior of the guy who made it.

One thing that bugs me too...if I made the PSIO, I'd at least make it so you could install your own background music. The more user configurable stuff the better imo

[vagrant moat]

Ouch, playing a game on the PSIO and again, the audio starts skipping.

I am almost wondering if I shouldn't just give up on it.

Can't remember if I modded this thing to play burned CDs or not...
But the PSIO doesn't disable to the optical disc I believe?

As someone who did not own a PS1 back in the day, was it common to hear audio skip or distort?

[proven seal]

it shouldn't be

since you mentioned it earlier, i just got out my psio to mess around with, and i'm already reminded why i stopped using it lol

[deft sphinx]

Apparently, for reasons unknown this game uses a nonstandard mouse that no PS1 emu appears to support. Anyone tried the game on the core?

http://redump.org/disc/121017/

[lilac scaffold]

they tried, but photo hunting on the net inexplicably remained more popular with young males 🙂

[clear rock]

Yeah but I am pretty sure the controller itself isn't reporting the extra buttons to the API in any way, or that the API it uses even supports more buttons

[clear rock]

Preferably one that lets you keep your disk drive 🙁

[lilac scaffold]

yeah it can depend on the controller (mode) / driver, but there's plenty of good options with enough buttons

current sony/MS controllers work nicely

[stiff ferry]

I was checking up on GitHub and noticed there was a new version released with a “new Bob”? What’s this about? I can’t find any information in the docs about it, the CL itself isn’t descriptive, and the new version wasn’t posted on the Mister forums update thread so there’s no release notes? Why is it so hard to find information about changes in versions?

[dense wharf]

new bob deinterlacing i assume

bob being a form of deinterlacing

[buoyant plinth]

Zakk wrote a new (better) bob deinterlace scheme a year back, and it's being added to cores as they get updated. It's simultanously excellent and not a big deal, which is why it's not being detailed in change logs. #1046940919607345272 message

[stiff ferry]

Okay thanks! So uh, what is new about it? Anywhere that explains/shows what it does or looks like compared to the “old” one?

[buoyant plinth]

Give them a try 🙂 #1046940919607345272 message

[clear rock]

We've got Bob and Weave but no Dodge or Parry, we're never going to beat Dark Souls at this rate

[coral minnow]

but maybe we can still beat king's field

[buoyant plinth]

You can fat roll by messing up vsync

[steel rover]

Anyone have any good ideas for a ps1 to usb adapter for mister ps1 games

I dont want to use snac because for some reason its givin me problems with ps1 games

Also i want to navigate menus

[little frost]

Reflex Adapter from MiSTeraddons with a PSX adapter

[dawn axle]

Seconded. Even supports rumble with a dualshock(2) now

[last kraken]

Reflex adapt all the way. You can also get adapters for a variety of other controllers.

[vagrant moat]

Very tempted to sell my unit.

How does the MODE on PS1 go?

Pretty good experience? I have used my MODE on both the Saturn and Dreamcast and it's very solid (though I think the Satiator is an overall better option for the Saturn in the end)

[proven seal]

no idea, i don't have experience with the mode on other consoles as it mostly only interests me for dreamcast. i imagine it's fine, but it requires soldering like the psio and xstation, at which point i would probably just install an xstation

[vagrant moat]

I am using the MODE on Dreamcast now and it is SUPER solid.

Just love it.

[serene nebula]

I want a Dreamcast ODE

[proven seal]

i'm gonna stick a mode in my dreamcast eventually. more expensive than the GDEMU clones, but seems like a much more solid and stable option

[serene nebula]

Is a mode an ODE

[proven seal]

"yes" in the sense that it replaces and emulates the original disc drive

but some people like to get pedantic about it

"x ode doesn't simulate the pits of a disc like y ode does" or some shit

[serene nebula]

lol wat

tell them to your emulate your pits

[proven seal]

lol

[serene nebula]

is there anything for Dreamcast as simple to install as the Flippdrive

[proven seal]

simple how

as in no-solder?

[serene nebula]

Yessir

[proven seal]

both gdemu and mode are plug 'n play i believe

[last kraken]

I just installed a MODE in my Dreamcast and it’s super simple. No soldering or nothing. You do have to remove the disc drive though

[proven seal]

the only sticking point with the gdemu is that you have to either mod the original psu or get an aftermarket one so it doesn't overheat

does the mode require that as well? not sure

[dawn axle]

Nope, MODE works perfectly fine with the stock PSU!

at least im not aware of any need to change out the PSU

I played through all of Sonic Adventure 2 and Skies of Arcadia on my mode with no noticeable issues

[dusky ore]

The MODE puts a little bit of load on the 12V rail if it's present, yeah

[proven seal]

ah very cool, thank you both for confirming. i prefer to use original power supplies when they're internal, so that's very nice to hear

[dusky ore]

Honestly, the alternative to removing the 12V rail with a GDEMU is to just put some kind of dummy load

[dawn axle]

Yeah the manual seems to suggest you don’t need to do anything with the 12V rail

[dusky ore]

Something like three 1K resistors in parallel is what I've seen suggested, and you could technically pull it off without soldering

[dawn axle]

I’ve been very happy with my MODE but it’s definitely the Ferrari of dreamcast ODEs

[dusky ore]

"buy once, cry once" honestly

I have a GDEMU and it's...fine, but I'm well aware of its compatibility issues

I would consider upgrading to a MODE at some point since I'd like to have organized storage without having to use some extra application and numbered folders

[proven seal]

yeah, the gdemu's menu and folder system is pretty jank. as someone who likes to organize things as much as i can, it's a real turn-off

[forest trench]

With the latest firmware (released about 3 years back), there should be no known incompatibilities

[forest trench]

Have you tried openmenu?

[dusky ore]

Correct, but I'm in the bucket of "bought the bootleg one"

[forest trench]

Ah ok

[opal carbon]

I run a GDEMU on a stock Japanese Dreamcast PSU, no issues. GDEMU creator doesn’t believe it’s necessary, good enough for me.

I have a Mode in my Saturn. Works well. Don’t love the creators (firmware requires registering an account, were kind of jerky online when I was interacting with them), bought a Fenrir Lite and a SAROO for the second Saturn I’m building.

[vagrant moat]

I used to have this hacky resistor on there so the Dreamcast wouldn't overheat

But I got rid of that once I got the Robot Retro thing

Saves you a cap replacement too...

https://www.robotretro.com/collections/sega-dreamcast-and-saturn

Wait, why are we chatting about the Dreamcast in the PSX room hehe

go with the flow

[steel rover]

Wtf

Idk why i never looked into this all the way

This looks dope

[steel rover]

Does it support rumble with a ps1 controller?

[oblique glade]

MODE is great but support from TerraOnion is nearly absent now. Fortunately it run 99% of games without issue. Homebrew and hacks work well too.

[proven seal]

that's the main problem with terraonion's products; lack of support

the most notable thing they've done over the last few years is dickride some neo geo homebrew game on twitter

meanwhile the super HD system 3 came out over 4 years ago and still doesn't play supergrafx games correctly

[little frost]

pretty certain it does

[lost coyote]

Only reason I might want to buy actual ps1 hardware is morbid curiosity on the launch ps1's with the old GPU

[ivory verge]

You can change the code and do it in core :))

[steel rover]

According to something voultar said in a livestream forever ago its because the early non 1chip snes did not have proper seals around the mask of the chip

Which causes them to die

But this was years ago when he said this and im probably not explaining it correctly

[steel rover]

Also i did not know there were differences in early ps1 gpus and late ones

Kinda crazy

[lost coyote]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13piNam2pMJoMaIDEZlXUbP7ZIOq6T9xO/view

New GPU to the Left, Old GPU to the right

[vagrant moat]

interestin

[clear rock]

Doesn't MODE do DRM-ed updates like the PSIO? Or am I thinking of a different Dreamcast ODE?

[clear rock]

I don't understand the point of these, USB-C power supplt replacements. I understand using them for systems that had a barrel-jack connector or some other proprietary or semi-proprietary AC adapter, but the Saturn and DC just used a standard AC cable that you can get for like $5 or less from anywhere and is used in many devices as standard, including from what I understand just about every non-slim PlayStation from PS1 to PS5. Replacing one of the most common, interchangeable, and cheap power cables with a USB-C port sounds like a downgrade, now you need USC-C AC adapter that has a high enough wattage for the console. As common as USB-C is nowadays, the cable used in these systems is far more common, not to mention far cheaper than a USB-C adapter. Only advantage I can think of is that I guess you can run it off a power bank? But these are not portable systems, you would still need to plug it into a TV anyway, nor are these consoles really small or made to be moved while in use.

[clear rock]

Gotta say, while the differences in those Tomb Raider screenshots was obvious, I'm not noticing a difference in that video. I assume the video compression isn't helping, nor that they seem to go out of sync later.

[lost coyote]

The right side becomes slower and becomes laggier

[clear rock]

Oh, I thought I was supposed to be looking for banding like in Tomb Raider

[river otter]

Its not being changed just for the cable. Its because in some cases the PSUs inside the consoles die and not everyone is capable of recapping them or performing other repairs. Whereas many people are capable enough to switch out a PSU.

[clear rock]

The GPU running slower sounds.... like it would cause a lot of compatbility problems from older games runnning on the newer GPU, sure it wasn't just slower loading or something?

[clear rock]

Yes, I get replacing the PSU itself, my point is why USB-C instead of using the same AC port

[river otter]

Because instead of designing a whole new DC power supply (that's what the PSU is internally) you're saving time and effort by using a USB PD PSU which are readily available

[clear rock]

But you are adding time and effort, as well as cost, to using it. And honestly, USB-C is also a much less resilient connector than the original

[river otter]

You're not adding time and effort, I just explained that

[clear rock]

Like I said, in it's usage because now you need to hunt down a USB AC adapter with the appropriate wattage instead of using a very cheap and common cable

For no real benefit to the user

[river otter]

sighs

[abstract drift]

several consoles can run from one USB-C supply. USB-C cables are thinner than AC cables, having no AC voltages inside the console makes it safer to perform modifications inside

it also reduces heat inside the console since thats all handled by the bricks

modern USB-C bricks are much more efficient than the old supplies, and have no idle power draw

[clear rock]

At least you bring up some good points, though I don't really agree with are why would you leave it plugged in if you are making modifications

[abstract drift]

thats a minor benefit yeah

[clear rock]

Do they make replacement PSUs that still use the original port too

[river otter]

No

[clear rock]

Seems the most common one for both PSX and Dreamcast uses... a barrel connector? Ugh, that's even worse

[river otter]

And USB-PD is much nicer than DC barrel connectors

[clear rock]

Yeah, I would take USB-C over a barrel connector

Or Nintendo's propitery connectors

Just not over that common AC cable

[vagrant moat]

Initial reason I bought the Retro Robot PSUs was for the Saturn (Japanese one). Runs slightly cooler now (Japan is 100v and here is 115v). But picked up a DC one too.

Now a Nintendo Switch 2 power unit does the work.

As for the cord being usb C that’s not really the draw for me but it’s cool

[clear rock]

Who designed that mess. There are like, over a dozen different sizes for both the outside barrel and inside pin, and could be any voltage, polarity (though the vast majority are positive pin) and could even be either DC or AC

[river otter]

Another advantage of these USB-PD replacements is that it makes the consoles dual voltage. Not something that everyone cares about but I do.

[clear rock]

That's fair

Though I suppose technically you can do that with a replacement PSU that takes AC too, but it would be more expensive and work to do

[river otter]

That wouldn't make it dual voltage, I just end up having to get a different region

[clear rock]

? Why would it not? If a replacement PSU could take an input from 110V to 240V? Most stuff nowadays that does not have a motor does

[river otter]

Does such a PSU even exist?

Like are there aftermarket Saturn or DC power supplies that take AC and are dual voltage?

[clear rock]

Like I said most stuff these days does that, not sure if there are any replacement PSUs for retro systems that do since I haven't looked into it, but it's obviously doable since that's how many digital devices these days operate. My PS4 Pro supports 110V-240C at 50hz and 60hz

[river otter]

I'm just talking about Saturn and DC since that was what we started talking about here

[buoyant plinth]

Haven't seen any, they all offload the AC-DC conversion to a wallwart with barrel jack or USB-C blob

[river otter]

So it seems you're just making things up or something

[clear rock]

I am just saying you don't need USB-C to design a PSU that can do it for a saturn

Also you are just simply offloading the voltage conversion to the USB AC adapter anyway

Which is doing the 110-240 conversion

[river otter]

✌️ I look forwarding to see your replacement Saturn AC PSU

[clear rock]

tears open a USB adapter and just hard wires it's guts into one of those replacement PSUs Oh look, here's one

[buoyant plinth]

Be very easy to do, eg dreampsu takes up a third of the space of the original power board leaving plenty of room for a mains socket and onboard AC-DC.

I've not looked at psx or saturn ones but I'm sure they're the same kinda thing

[clear rock]

Yeah, pretty much. The USB-C PSU is essentially as if a standard AC PSU is in two parts, one half is in the console and the other in the USB adapter

And they tend to be much smaller than the original PSU, so you could definitely do it, though it would be a very jury-rigged way of doing it

[buoyant plinth]

Quite tempted to do that in my Dreamcast now; barrel connectors are way too easy to blow shit up with when you use the wrong one

[clear rock]

in terms of DC though my bigger conscern is that AFAIK there are no ODE options where you can keep the disk drive 🙁

Yeah, if my choices were USB-C or barrel connetor, I would go USB-C

I want to keep or switch to standards, not replace standards with less standard connections

That's the same kind of PSU that I kept finding whenever I searched for a replacement PSU for a PSX or Saturn just now by the way, that white one with the barrel jack in that DC

[buoyant plinth]

Simple, cheap, works

[clear rock]

By the way, what is that small black board on the right?

[river otter]

You can change the DC barrel jack to USB-C PD with a USB trigger board lol

[clear rock]

I am guessing you would be using the PD feature to tell the adapter to deliver whatever voltage the barrel jack would normally be taking in?

[river otter]

Yes

[buoyant plinth]

No idea, I stole the picture from https://kaicolabs.com/product/dream-psu-dreamcast-power-supply-replacement/. Looks wifi-ish, doesn't show up on a websearch for 'dreamcast airgun' or 'airguin'

[river otter]

Unlike regular DC barrel jacks USB PD negotiates so you don't have to worry about plugging in the wrong DC voltage or polarity and blowing up your vintage console

[clear rock]

Yeah, I assumed wifi, but then I saw that thin black wire which I assume is the antenna

Just as long as it's not an NES since that took in AC power XD

But I would rather use a USB-C PSU than replace the original one with a barrel jack

Been messing with deciding how to power my MisterPI properly over USB-C too actually, weird how PD can not transfer over a simple power switch

I think I might switch to a PD based adapter even if it will run hotter, since just standard 5V USB-C can seem to sometimes undercurrent it if I have too many accessories connected

[river otter]

If you need the extra wattage then do it, the increase in temperature is why it's got a fan

[clear rock]

Yeah, a non-PD one can't seem to handle a MT-32 Pi being plugged in

At best it reboots when I turn it on, worst case it keeps rebooting

works fine with a PD adapter

[buoyant plinth]

Huh. I'm still running my MiSTer off the Terasic 2A psu, with mt32-pi (wifi/bt/keyboard/mouse also)

[clear rock]

Mine is a Pi so it uses USB-C instead of a barrel jack

[lost coyote]

Devs had to test games both on the old and new gpu ps1s

[clear rock]

Ouch

[dawn axle]

They do, unfortunately. Terra onion as a company are pretty iffy but the product itself is solid

[proven seal]

i don't mind TO's firmware protection since most of their products are decent, but i wish they would actually, you know, update them more often

and by "more often" i mean literally at all

[forest trench]

Antenna for a DCHDMI

[abstract drift]

terraonion did say they'd update MODE for the new VMU Pro. we'll see if it happens but they're not completely absent

[opal carbon]

Yes but you lose 2p support so you need two adapts if you want two player rumble. It’s just a mode (X-Input mode) so easy to switch if you need to.

Crap that was supposed to be a reply to @steel rover re PS1 rumble support with the reflex adapt. Need coffee this morning.

[steel rover]

So it does have rumble?

In xinput mode?

[opal carbon]

Yes. One player only.

[steel rover]

Thats fine

Hows the latency

[opal carbon]

Incredibly low

The only issue I have with my adapt is SCPH-110 controllers do not work. These are the common DualShock controllers that came with the PSOne and are usually in fun colors.

Original DualShock SCPH-1200 and DualShock 2 work great.

I think highest measured latency on the adapt is still under 3ms

[steel rover]

Really?

They dont work?

I have the earlier ps1 dualshock but i prefer the later ones due to how the sticks feel

[opal carbon]

Neither of mine do. They’re both SCPH-110s, in different colors from different eBay sellers. Not familiar enough with the SCPH-110s to know if there are other revisions or what but that’s all I can report.

[steel rover]

@humble thorn

[steel rover]

Are you familiar with this incompatibility?

[opal carbon]

I mentioned it in the MisterAddons discord but we didn’t get into troubleshooting. Sonik has had success with SCPH-110s and I had other controllers I could use so we didn’t dive in but I’m confident there is some wonk with at least some revisions of that controller. These same controllers work great via SNAC

[steel rover]

The main reason im not using snac is because i have an adapter and its givin me problems with dualshock controllers

[opal carbon]

What kind of problems?

[steel rover]

Has weird weird delay issues on some games

Its weird cause its varies on the game

[opal carbon]

Which games and which adapter?

[steel rover]

Im p sure ive talked about it in here before ill try to reply to that message

[opal carbon]

Yeah you have the virtual memory card issue

right?

[steel rover]

Here it is

[steel rover]

Even if i turn it off it still happens :(

[opal carbon]

It still happens when you set it to Real Memory Card or whatever the option to use memory cards over SNAC?

Have you tried unmounting both memory cards slots? You can do this by going to select a memory card and then hitting backspace on a keyboard

I’m gonna try FF8 on my setup right now and see if I can replicate it

[steel rover]

Ill have to test it again to be sure but im pretty sure it still happens with virtual memory card disabled

But id like to use vmcs if possible tbh

Just wayvmore convenient

[opal carbon]

You SHOULD be able to use VMC if you just mount a bogus memory card in slot 2

That fixes it for Gran Turismo 2 at least

Yeah confirmed it’s SUPER twitchy for me when I switch to VMC. When I use the Real Memory Card that issue you video’d goes away for me.

Loading a card in slot 2 seems to fix it for me when using VMC

Try that. What I was doing was loading a random card in slot to and then saving the core settings. It will then automount that card every time you boot the core. If you ever need to use slot 2 you can just swap the card.

I’d love to know if this work around is stable. I’m using a SNAC adapter with a real memory card slot and the memcard pro 2 now so my setup doesn’t really have this issue.

[steel rover]

Ill test that when i can

Gotta head to work soon

[steel rover]

Okay yea it works normally if virtual memory card isnt used @opal carbon

[steel rover]

How do you load a card in slot 2?

[opal carbon]

In the menu, there’s an option to mount a card in slot 2

So you can put the VMC you want to use for the game in Slot 1 and anything in Slot 2

[steel rover]

Oh wtf

That worked lol

Ff8 works fine now dope

Thanks for helping me out with this lol

[clear rock]

PSIO is in the same situation, feels like the ones with closed DRMed decives tend to update far less often

Main reason I am not using SNAC for PSX is because I can't find one that I want that dosen't cost at least like $80 🙁

[proven seal]

i don't even know if cybdun is still around? been messing with my psio a bit more and it's alright, though getting some games to run is a hassle. i will say though, i very much like the menu system

it's quite polished and pretty customizable

[clear rock]

FF8... wonder if it would somehow be possible to get pocketstation on the Mister

[clear rock]

Well, the site is still up, but the last update to the PSIO IIRC was in October of 2024. The forums are still "coming soon" that were closed down so Matt could add DRM even to them

PSIO had no updates for like three years because Matt insisted on putting more DRM on it because there was chinese clones of an already even at the time outdated firmware revision, started banning people who got angry, finally came out with the update.... updated it like, one other time,and ... that's been it

Oh, also the new firmware update was cracked on a Russian forum in like a week

[proven seal]

yep, that's the firmware i've been using lol. fuck matt and his drm

there were a couple of attempts at some alternate psio firmwares from other developers, but both were met with threats of legal action from matt. so again, fuck him

[clear rock]

He knew damn well that people were not happy either, he used to keep trying to spin the argument of why the PSIO has not been updated yet, at one point comparing it to people these days having little patience due to cellphones... then finally begrudingly admitted it was because of adding DRM... people did not take it well, and after a while he started to threaten to ban people if they kept bringing it up

[clear rock]

Yup, that one pisses me off the most. One of them was apparently due to people bullying/threatening the dev. I am not saying it was Matt but, it happened at the same time as the other and for no reason the dev suddenly had foreign people attacking him over it...

[hidden mist]

‎ 🎩

🧿👄🧿 ✨
‎ 🫴

[clear rock]

Fishier than a cannery

[proven seal]

i hope someone makes custom firmware and releases it someday just to spite him

[clear rock]

I recall Matt also saying if the new DRM was cracked he would just stop updating, wonder if he is staying true to that now

[proven seal]

yeah, that's what i was referring to lol. would be fine by me

[clear rock]

Let's not forget, when the new firmware came out you had to register your PSIO now, and if you had not bought it from matt, it cost like $10 to transfer the license or whatver, you would also have to do this if you bought it used

I think it was even found that Matt had used the offiial PS1 SDK to make his PSIO? And nothing came of that

[proven seal]

i think stoneagegamer actually paid that fee for some users. good on them for stepping in, but also ridiculous that it even existed in the first place

[clear rock]

Yeah

[serene nebula]

man who makes piracy device gets mad when his device is pirated

[proven seal]

right 🤣

[clear rock]

Many such cases

I recall Alcohol 120% was like that too

He was OBSESSED with people copying his device, putting all of his attention to that instead of his actual customers

Surprise, didn't end well, everyone says to avoid the PSIO now, even PSIO owners like me

The bootleg ones at the time didn't even have the latest firmware

[proven seal]

meanwhile the xstation took years to clone without any drm nonsense from rama, and when it was finally cloned, he didn't make a big shitshow about it, because he's an actual grown-up

[clear rock]

Exactly

I wish the PSIO wasn't the only option to keep the disk drive... I wish more ODE devs would make one that lets you keep the disk drive

The Fenrir has a 3rd party add-on that does... but it costs as much as the new cheaper version now, and is a mess

I won't get a bootleg Fenrir because I don't want to rip off the dev, but the bootleg ones managed to just make a single board that is not much bigger than the fenrir itself (if not smaller I think) that incorporates that in it and needs far less connectors as a result, for like half the price.

[proven seal]

damn, that's rather impressive and enticing for a bootleg

[clear rock]

Yeah, I wish the real one had that option 🙁

Feels like most ODEa devs could not care less about keeping the disk drive even if it would be simple to do

Which is a massive shame for Dreamcast considering it's propitery drive

[proven seal]

odes are already kind of a niche thing, and people who want to use both an ode and the original drives are an even smaller niche, so most devs probably don't feel the need to retain the original drive if they don't have to

[spark ermine]

My original drive in my dreamcast was dead anyways so i didn't care swapping it for a gdemu

[clear rock]

I feel like for Dreamcast it is rather important, yet, that's one of the few consoles that has no such option

(Outside of VERY outdated methods that run poorly)

Though I wish the PSX had a better option than PSIO

[dawn axle]

MODE and GDEmu are at least pretty easily reversible

but that’s the thing imo, if im going through the effort to install an ode in any console, its because i explicitly do NOT want to use the disc drive

I can see the appeal to keep both if you have a sizable physical library and or you have a specific edge case where a game doesn’t work on an ODE somehow

[opal carbon]

Keep us posted if you find that anything breaks with that work around. It’s a weird one but here’s hoping it works 4ever.

[opal carbon]

Like a core? Or you mean the actual device? I think the actual device works over SNAC

[ivory verge]

I tried it in the core

for fun ofc

[mortal oracle]

What’s the default core behaviour?

New GPU?

[ivory verge]

yes

[mortal oracle]

Thank you

[ivory verge]

left images

[mortal oracle]

PSX core best core

[proven seal]

it is very good

i hope to see improvements whenever it and the mister framework gets ported to the de-25 nano

[mortal oracle]

I feel like the most major benefit would be anything timing related - so that the slowdown/turbo options aren’t needed for the very small number of edge cases

But I have no idea how much work that would be, and/or whether anyone would be interested in tackling those issues

[proven seal]

i would like to see a lot of the longstanding open issues on github addressed, mostly for accuracy's sake. a notable one is the issue in captain commando where the first boss graphics appear corrupted, because the core can't handle interleaved XA audio data and game data properly

perspective-corrected textures would be a really nice feature to see on a larger fpga as well

[clear rock]

For me, it's because I want to have the option to use either. Especially since the PSX had some games that took advantage of reading off other disks as part of their gameplay like Vib Ribbon or Monster Rancher

[clear rock]

A core

[serene nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/yoda-there-is-another-star-wars-jedi-gif-5140031

Oh wait I’m wrong, the game doesn’t use discs, damnit

Gif wasted

Anyways this was the game I was thinking of - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonseeds

[clear rock]

There are others, those were just examples

IIRC some of the DDR games had add-on disks or let you plug int he disk from previous games to play it's songs

[serene nebula]

Yeah hut Sragon Seeds

[clear rock]

"The game also allows the player to receive extra dragons through the saves files of certain games, if the memory card is placed at the second slot." so similar idea but with save files instead of CDs

Feels like you would be a lot more limited in what you can get vs Monster Rancher scanning Cds

[serene nebula]

I knoooooow, I thought I was being all clever and shit

I wonder if the bane is good

[clear rock]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-solid-mgs-you-like-castlevania-dont-you-konami-castevania-gif-18137110

[dawn axle]

No that’s completely valid. That’s a case where I’d probably have two separate consoles if it were me

[serene nebula]

Argle me bargles, I own it!

[clear rock]

Actually took me a while to figure out how ot even play those games on the mister, since normally it reboots the core if you load a new disk image

noreset.txt doesn't help if you need to swap back

That reminds me, the PSX core dosen't support CDI format images right?

[opal carbon]

DRAGON SEEDS! I’ve been trying to remember what this game was called for like 15 years.

[lost coyote]

Can I get this version of the core for funsies

[little frost]

I presume there’s a technical reason. why loading a savestate where one doesn’t exist resets the game? It would be so nice if that could be adjusted some day

[serene nebula]

Detective Robby always gets his game

That’ll be $5

[clear rock]

I wonder if Dragon Hopper had any relation to Dragon Seeds, both were monster raising games about dragons

[clear rock]

I remember hunting down an import copy of Puchi Carat on PSX in my college years. Managed to find a PAL copy with the paddle controller. I assume it's probably much easier to find it now but back then Retro Gaming hadn't really taken off yet and prices were still sane

I miss the days of getting Conkers bad fur day for under $20 or Amazon having dozens of sealed boxed copies of perfect dark for $3

[serene nebula]

https://ebay.us/m/QeuK5Z

Yeah im good for that price lol

[clear rock]

Jesus... I don't remember what I paid but it was probably under 30 if not under 20

[serene nebula]

My last stupid controller purchase for the PS1 was Jet de Ho lol

[clear rock]

Not sure if it came with that cardboarf box though

Heh, i havent bought much crazy controllers

For me the craziest one is probably Steel Battalion

[clear rock]

Also the animations were significantly cut down feom the arcade version to fit in the PSX's memory, though they added extra modes. Too bad it wasn't released on saturn

[serene nebula]

I only played the GBC version lol

[clear rock]

Heh, there worse GBC versions of psx games you could have played...

[tropic stratus]

set lower 3 bits of gouraud gradient to zero?

[still lichen]

https://eshop.thrustmaster.com/en_us/t-16000m-fcs.html

If i wanted to use this on the psx core, should i be using the analog joystick option or just digital?

[sand minnow]

I was surprised that the Arkanoid Returns actually took some things from Doh it Again on SNES.

[clear rock]

I can't read that name without thinking of Homer Simpson

[solar fable]

Is this core supposed to output c-sync via SNAC with these?

[mortal oracle]

Isn’t that for lightguns to make the screen flash white?

So more… input than output

But I know nothing so I’ll be quiet until the adults arrive

[solar fable]

That yellow port shouldn’t work without SNAC outputting csync.

[dawn axle]

Oh yeah that’s really weird looking. Normally those light gun adapters had a composite pass through that it tapped into

The guncon is supported by the PSX core through SNAC though so it has to be doing something like that

[lilac scaffold]

Yeah csync for guncon, older io boards needed the io jumper set to io6 for it to work

[dawn axle]

I’m guessing it’s for cases where you’re connecting mister to a CRT over something other than composite and still want to use a light gun

[lilac scaffold]

Can be more convenient to connect at the mister than the tv end of the video cable i guess

[dawn axle]

That too

Apparently there was a breakout AV adapter that Namco made so that you didn’t have to plug it directly into the TV

[solar fable]

Did they pass csync?!

[dense wharf]

those adapters do work so i guess they do pass csync

[solar fable]

Nope, over composite, but connecting the guncon's composite to the SNAC adapter and not to the composite video single. One works (connecting it to the composite signal) and the other doesn't. But somehow it works for a few people.

[lilac scaffold]

Yeah, it's part of blue's original psx snac design and snax, lots of folks use it

[dense wharf]

i use a snac psx adapter with that composite output, my misters video output is just VGA to a 15khz capable CRT pc monitor

[lilac scaffold]

Needs the 6th io pin on user port, that's default on io9.2 tho isn't it?

[dense wharf]

guncons of course work swimmingly

[lilac scaffold]

'If a guncon is connected and a justifier isn't the needed signal for Guncon will be output through the composite port.'

[solar fable]

Yes, but it doesn't work

If the intention is for the current software to output csync via SNAC on a 9.2 ( or even 3rd party adapters from RC), it doesn't do that.

[lilac scaffold]

Hrm, don't have one myself but nobaddy's saying it works for them, have heard of plenty of folks using it and not many issues outside the io jumper

[dense wharf]

maybe it works some other way, i dont really know. The practical purpose of it is to connect guncons, and it does make the guncons work

[lilac scaffold]

What io board do you have nobaddy?

[dense wharf]

i have a mister pi so i think its a 9.2

i havent done anything to it

[solar fable]

I only found two videos of people using their guncon connected via SNAC only. Everyone else seems to be feeding it with a csync cable or connecting it in their composite video chain.

[dawn axle]

Yeah I wish I had a way to test this myself. I have a PS1 guncon (that will eventually be converted to gun4ir one day i swear I’ll get to it) but no CRT

[dense wharf]

i dont have a video of myself using it, but i most certainly have played guncon games on the psx core plugging the guncon into snac only and it works

[solar fable]

The two people:

[solar fable]

What adapter?

[dense wharf]

hold on

[solar fable]

And VGA to CVBS with VGA mode set to svideo?

[dense wharf]

just vga

havent set it to anything

[solar fable]

VGA crt?

[dense wharf]

yes

[solar fable]

[dense wharf]

my psx snac is the one from misterfpga.co.uk

[mystic flare]

i use the ps1 snac from retrocastle

[solar fable]

I tried that with his IO board. It doesn't output csync.

[lilac scaffold]

With a guncon connected?

https://github.com/blue212/SNAC-PSX/tree/main#snac sounds like it's detecting it

[solar fable]

Yes. The gun only works when it is provided with sync from the VGA connector. The one on the SNAC port doesn't do anything.

[dense wharf]

i have a unmodified batch 2 mister pi

[agile snow]

I connect my light gun using the yellow pass thru with the green ypbpr cable side going into a CRT

[dense wharf]

i took some footage but it doesnt really show anything but the gun successfully pressing the menu buttons

(playing time crisis with a single hand is kinda impossible lol)

[solar fable]

Ya, this is what I am talking about. In that situation, the SNAC adapter’s port isn’t being used.

[solar fable]

Can you go into option and calibration?

[agile snow]

It didn't work for me in the snac yellow input thingy so I do it the other way I mentioned

[solar fable]

Does your GunCon have a mode switch?

[dense wharf]

no

just a normal ps1 guncon

[solar fable]

I’m trying to uncover why 😭

[solar fable]

Time to buy a pc crt

[dense wharf]

its a microvitec 1438 meant for later amiga systems, it does 50/60hz and 240p/480i/480p (720x480 is its max resolution i think)

[lilac scaffold]

Wait for Jesusfish, he probably has 5 setups it works on 🙂

[chilly kraken]

I don't do snac stuff, unfortunately. I have 2 adapts and a retropad32 - it's more than enough dongles for one man

[solar fable]

Well, damn.

[abstract drift]

thats pretty neat, people are always curious what it looked like

@serene nebula worth pinning i think?

[clear rock]

I thought the core let you choose the old gpu?

[digital zinc]

#1046940919607345272 message

[clear rock]

So turning 24 bit off makes it act like the old gpu? That was off by default though

[digital zinc]

No, Turning off 24bit makes it perform like the new gpu, there is no option for the old gpu at all, because robert doesn't want to do it

[clear rock]

Turning it OFF? Odd, I see banding when it's off

[opal carbon]

Does it default to off because that’s how original hardware worked? I haven’t flipped it on, even though I hear it fixes Chrono Cross.

[digital zinc]

It does default to off I believe

[opal carbon]

Oh reading Robert’s comment it sounds like on is what I want.

It’s def off by default. I assume there is a reason for this given Robert’s thoughtfulness.

[solar fable]

I found out why.

The FPGA code defaults to never outputting csync unless it can correctly identify a GunCon (even when a GunCon is connected and all of the buttons work). In such case, you’d be forced to use a separate csync signal to allow the GunCon to work. There should be a forced override option to get around this detection failure.

[opal carbon]

Interesting. Do you think the guncon is never detected correctly or that it's just not detected in some cases?

[tropic stratus]

24bit off = new 16bit GPU.
There is currently no option for the old GPU. As @ivory verge made this now, we could offer the option if we want.

[opal carbon]

Ahhh okay so off is “stock” new GPU, got it.

Neat to have an old GPU option as a way to preserve an experience

[solar fable]

It’s not detected correctly in some situations

[proven seal]

https://x.com/terraonion/status/1965870744602395074 literally a few days after i mentioned that they haven't done anything in years lol

Terraonion SL (@terraonion)

New MODE firmware update released

X · Sep 10, 2025, 8:11 PM

[manic citrus]

maybe they are here listening 👀

[abstract drift]

neat

nice to see fixes for saturn aswell

[opal carbon]

I hope that the issue where my VA0 Saturn can’t reset to the MODE menu with controller commands. The Saroo can

[little frost]

probably also partially a preemptive update ahead of the VMU Pro release

[opal carbon]

Very excited about that thing

The VMU Pro. I have a VM2 and I really like it but if the VMU Pro is anything like my MCP2 I will really like the VMU Pro.

[little frost]

yeah i’ve got one on the way as well

[opal carbon]

I hope the screen is the right size on the VMU Pro. The only thing I don't like about the VM2 (besides it's price) is the screen is the wrong size.

[abstract drift]

is that out soon? i also preordered

[clear rock]

I am confused. In all the pictures from Tomb Raider showing old vs new GPU, there was clear banding with the old GPU. But I get banding when I have 24bit set to off and it goes away when I turn it on

[clear rock]

Wait, MODE didn't do it either? I remember PS-IO promised it and then Matt was hold back the update for years because of the DRM, but the new update did finally include support for it. Surprised MODE didn't have it years ago.

[clear rock]

Yeah, I love all the memcards they have been making, and it's insane how much milage they got out of the Memcard Pro 1, or even the 2, insane that you can just plug it into any PS2 and it can then load an ISO while also functioning as a memory card without ever even opening the PS2 (though it's not the ideal way to play PS2 games to be honest)

I just wish they or someone else would make a proper N64 one, not that Forever Pak nonsense

[ivory verge]

And dithering?

Is off or on?

Here is old and new gpu with dithering

And I assure you that banding is different in the new and old GPU.

The Old GPU crops 8:8:8 bit gouraud shading color to 5:5:5 bit before multiplying it with the texture color, resulting in rather poor graphics. For example, the snow scence in the first level of Tomb Raider I looks a lot smoother on New GPUs.
The cropped colors are looking a bit as if dithering would be disabled (although, technically dithering works fine, but due to the crippled color input, it's always using the same dither pattern per 8 intensities, instead of using 8 different dither patterns).

[clear rock]

It's there whether I enable dithering or not, at least in Spyro. It's harder to notice, but it's still there

[bitter lintel]

but WHY

[cosmic tulip]

Solderless solution that is PSX revision agnostic

[bitter lintel]

ok

fair. i forgot about that. i've installed the xstation. there was work for sure.

[cosmic tulip]

yeah

[clear rock]

Isn't the Mstation supposed to support more than just the PSX kinda like the MODE? Or did I get that wrong?

[proven seal]

xstation install sucks imo

mstation will be nice since it's apparently going to be solderless and work in any ps1 model

[proven seal]

i do recall hearing that but it seems the main focus is ps1, at least for now

[clear rock]

Fair enough. I think the dev was also considering letting you keep the CD drive but I think that was dropped too 🙁

[vestal thicket]

There have been comments eluding to potentially something like that with how the mStation is being built. Basically, it's trying to replicate a CD-ROM completely, and to be plug and play. Which sounds like maybe the tech could be 'easily' adapted to other consoles. I could be off base but that's how I have interpreted what has been said. I know mStation is set to have more/better features and Rama waited for some new ESP chips specifically because he wanted to make use of their power and features so we'll see.

[abstract drift]

yeah thats the theory, but afaik mstation is just for psx

if it works out you could see a bunch of others

[vagrant moat]

VM pro looks awesome I want

[clear rock]

I don't think it's that easy. Do BIN/CUE files even have all the data needed to replicate a CD at a low level like that? Plus from my understanding not all systems just had a disk drive that was just a motor and laser, some had additional components on said disk drive itself that did some of the data processing.

[clear rock]

Same, though I could do without some of the silly extra features like the mp3 player or emulation of 8 bit systems. I assume that was more of a "We have power to spare with this microcontroller so might as well use it for something fun" sort of thing than anything serious

[vagrant moat]

Ya I agree

[proven seal]

never understood the fascination of shoving a nes core in things

the mega everdrive pro had one, the everdrive 64 x7 had one, the super hd system 3 pro had one, etc. and they always suck. they're novelties at best

[clear rock]

I guess either a lot of work has already been done and/or it's simple to do?

[proven seal]

it's just a weird thing to dedicate space on the fpga to. they're never good anyway, lots of mappers missing and tons of glitches

if one of them was on par with the mister core, then maybe it could be justifiable, but again they're all just novelties as of now

i think the nes core on the SHDS3P could be cool, as playing nes games on pc engine actually seems kinda fitting, but lord knows that device is in limbo, with most of terraonion's other products

[clear rock]

Well, the FX Pak Pro/SD2SNES Pro has a Cyclone IV on it so you could probably emulate systems even more powerful than the SNES on it

[tulip moat]

Mainly for the challenge of making it possible, like how people take open source code for DOOM or Super Mario 64 and try to make it work for anything that has a processor.

[opal carbon]

Huh. Found a weird case where if the PSX BIOS are not on both my SDCard and my USB HDD, in some instances the core won't boot. I have the MiSTer to set to boot the last core, which I found required that I have my BIOS files on the SDCard to work reliably so I removed them from the games folder on the USB HDD. Figured it was taking too long to initialize the HDD. Just got the MiSTer into a state where it cold booted straight to the menu and it would not boot the PSX core because it was suddenly looking for the BIOS files on the HDD and was ignoring the SDCard.

Not a big deal, just duplicate the files, but weird.

[ivory verge]

improved version with the option to switch between old/new GPU. It's more of a curiosity, probably not interesting to many people. The core has good timings :))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HKjcxCuRfM

[abstract drift]

maybe do an MR? this seems like a reasonable feature as long as its clearly labelled

[opal carbon]

I think this feature would be rad to have in the main core. I understand if that's not feasible or is too much work but, but just thought I would mention it with absolutely no expectations 😎

[clear rock]

IIRC FPGAzumSpass said that inititally he wasn't interested in doing it himself but since others made it it could be offered as an option

[tropic stratus]

Yes, I already wrote that: if it's well made and optionally, I don't see why we shouldn't have it.
I haven't seen the change in the GPU, but from what I guess needs to be changed, this probably can be done at a single spot without messing up the code.
So please do a pull request 🙂

[stiff ferry]

I tried playing with the New Bob and I love it. It really looks like how PSX games looked on a CRT back in the day, flickery goodness and all. While playing with it though I noticed that after alternating between Weave and Bob a few times while the OSD was opened, the new Bob became broken. The frames were all off and looked offset. Is this known?

[stiff ferry]

Rebooting the core fixed it.

[opal carbon]

I also have noticed this but haven't retested

[bitter lintel]

"flicker goodness"?

[tropic stratus]

@ivory verge not trying to pressure you to work on this, but do you plan to make a pull request for the old GPU change or was it just some experiment for fun?

[ivory verge]

I'd be happy to do that, but unfortunately I won't be at home for the next few days.

[spark ermine]

It's pretty neat, I've been checking it out tonight to check out the differences

[cosmic tulip]

its a fascinating novelty

[lusty coral]

I never really had the chance to play any Diablo arpg style games and I've just started Diablo 1 on the PSX core.

I am hooked

[spark ermine]

In diablo 2 you can run

Might be my biggest issue with diablo 1 is I wanna run and I started with diablo 2 back in 2005 where that was a thing

[lusty coral]

I'm just having a blast. The atmosphere and ost in the first dungeon is amazing. I did just die unfortunately. But it's great.

[frail storm]

There is a native opensource Diablo version for GNU/Linux (and I guess inferior OSes too) that's called DevilutionX and would allow you to play Diablo with the graphics and sound quality it was intended to have.
And yes, it's Diablo 1 is pure ambiance, it's a magic game in which you want to simply "stay".

[proven seal]

@tropic stratus i'm getting error code E2 when playing samurai shodown: warriors rage, specifically when playing as rinka and performing her yuu unchou move (back, down, back-down + slash repeated twice, then slash). this can be easily and consistently replicated in the practice mode

using the latest unstable core with a known-good game rip. all core options set to default

[ivory verge]

if the game works and doesn't freeze, it doesn't matter

This occurs in several games.

[proven seal]

gotcha, thanks. it didn't seem to affect gameplay, but i thought it worth mentioning regardless

i saw on github that E2 means cpu exception. what causes that?

[lusty coral]

I think I tried the devilutionX Mister fpga port but i couldn't get it to work

That was a while back though

https://github.com/raetro-archives/MiSTer_DeViL

That's the one I tried. I had the correct files in the correct location. Just couldn't get it to work

I can probably try it again but.

[frail storm]

Save your time and use a full fledged computer, using the ARM side of the MiSTer for that does not make much sense..

Keep playing the PSX version instead, it's a good version.

[lusty coral]

Just managed to get the spell of town portal. It's so handy for selling stuff. I do hope I come across a good bow soon.

[visual depot]

We may share angry monkey gifs at times but yeah there's a reason the MiSTer discord is at the top of my list and is often perused by my eyes.

So much cool stuff and chill people.

We even have a snake

[clear rock]

https://tenor.com/view/raquita-angry-monkey-rage-gif-12224887

[tropic stratus]

No worries, I was just asking so it's not lost somehow 🙂 Thank you for doing it!

[tropic stratus]

Exceptions can be anything in the CPU that causes the normal program flow to stop and jump to some recovery address instead. E.g. executing a unknown instruction.
Usually this means that the game crashes, but it can be that the game has exception handling implemented and recovers from that

[rare gyro]

Maybe there should be a note in the error code reference that this error code shouldn't be too alarming as some games have their own exception handling implemented

[tropic stratus]

Well, the documentation says it like this and I thought it would be clear?
"E2 - CPU exception(only relevant if game shows issues)"

To me this reads like: no issues -> don't worry. But if it does not, we can find a better wording

[north mesa]

Question about storage - I'm looking to buy 2tb of storage; for cost saving reasons, I'm considering spinning disks. WIll that cause problems for CD-based systems - like the PSX?

[stable perch]

USB-based disks tend to:

• draw a lot of power
• spin down at times
• take a long time to spin up
  Not recommended

[north mesa]

yeah, that's a lot of downsides, I agree

but it's almost a 50% pricedifference here, hence my question

[stable perch]

yeah, you definitely won't like it on CDROM games

[scenic reef]

Seems clear to me

[gusty hatch]

i’d just pony up the difference for ssd . also 2tb seems like a lot. my launchbox giga romset of every console ever is 3.5 tb including all of the big box video snaps art work etc etc

not sure you could fill 2tb with mister unless you grab every iso ever and every disk image for every pc

80 for 3.5 drive 114 for ssd. not saying these are good or im recommending them but just giving ballpark numbers

[clear rock]

The PSX had a 2X CD drive, it would have been considerably slower than even HDDs at the time, much less modern HDDs. The other issues dshadoff mentioned can be problems depending on the drive you use (and if you can't externally power it) but access speeds are definitely not one of them. If anything, CD-based consoles had some of the slowest data access compared to cart-based consoles

I hav a 512GB MicroSD in mine, and having compressed my games to CHD I still have over 100GB free despite having hundreds of games for PSX and Saturn onit

[mortal oracle]

Here we go again…