Sony PlayStation

[ancient steppe]

the newer pc ports com from the mobile ports

[somber steppe]

Aren't the mobile ports based on the older pc ports? If not they stripped that feature twice.

[ancient steppe]

I've no idea

I just know they are not good lol

[hybrid plaza]

Wait, what? PCs supported controllers and analog by the time FF8 and 9 came out.

[somber steppe]

That was in june 1998. Did we really have controller support back then? I remember fallout 3 and oblivion not having it when they released on pc, years later.

Ff7 that is

FF8 pc was 2000

[hybrid plaza]

https://www.amazon.com/Axis-Pad-Colors-Interact-Controller/dp/B001DTEYKY

Here is an analog PC gamepad from pre-2000. Gameport (the 15 pin serial connector) exists for that very reason.

[somber steppe]

Yeah but the games themselves weren't tooled to use it. Probably better compatibility with bleem.

[hybrid plaza]

I know I used one on THPS2 back in the day. It was a USB controller by then. Had a single gameport controller, but can't remember what I used it with.

[serene nebula]

back when I wanted analog controls I used a joystick like a real man

None of these little baby paddles for me, you gotta grip it and shift it

I got the controller that came with street fighter for dos lol

[somber steppe]

Yeah you grab that big, girthy joystick like the bad boy your are and... rattle it!

[ancient steppe]

lol back in the bleem era I made a dual shock to serial adaptor

it was really easy

[somber steppe]

And now we're having issues to get nintendos weird n64 driver to work correctly with 3rd party controllers. What a time to be alive.

[desert otter]

I know what they were trying to do with the way they drew that picture of the hand holding the ball top, but at the same exact time that is literally the best way to hold a japanese ball top lol. You use your fingers to push it around rather than gripping it and moving your wrist or whole hand

because the switches are light and mechanical rather than spring loaded mushiness like american bat sticks

[random gust]

Are the American bat sticks really that mushy? It has been said that they have a acquired something of a bad reputation because of poor maintenance more than anything else.

[serene nebula]

I dunno, I just use a bat stick with a Sanwa and a 3lb lever. Feels super good.

[desert otter]

When I say the American bat stick I am also referring to the entire unit that you typically find in American arcade cabs which use a completely different setup than Japanese sticks. More springs pushing into recessed button rather than something more instant and mechanical. Older sanwa denshi used omron switches.
Most American style units were just spring loaded with a simple button that you had to push the stick pretty far to reach feeling a lot like pressing down on a membrane keyboard. Mushy.
And poor maintenance just made it worse.

[manic citrus]

@bright yacht core already supports both styles of rumble, but maybe it's not doing it for negcon 'wheel' types?

[bright yacht]

Not sure. Does it also work on the analog joystick mode?

[manic citrus]

what style of rumble do negcon wheels use? the 'simple' one or the more complicated dualshock one?

[bright yacht]

I don't have one of those wheels to try.
But by testing some games I see that both methods are used. Older games uses the legacy method.

I'm going to do some tests on the core now

@manic citrus legacy rumble seems to only work when in dualshock mode on the core

[manic citrus]

any idea how the games know it's a negcon wheel vs a normal negcon? like in something like CMR, does it only show vibration settings if it's a negcon wheel?

[bright yacht]

So... The dualshock can enter/exist "escape/config mode"

Dualshock rumble is only possible after entering this mode and doign a query for the actuators.

This is one way to detect if rumble is possible

On the legacy mode AFAIK it's not possible to know. You set the rumble bits on the poll request and send it

Some games does shows a wheel on it's options menu when the device is a negcon that reports rumble

[manic citrus]

oh hmm, core only processes change config mode (0x43) for dualshock

[bright yacht]

having legacy rumble for all modes would be useful

it would not break compatibility with any game

on the other end, having escape mode on all devices will break compatibility with some games

[manic citrus]

weird. does duckstation implement this correctly? if i set my controller to 'negcon with rumble' CMR2 doesn't let me enable vibration

[bright yacht]

The game have a setting to select negcon/wheel? I don't remember

I did the implementation on duckstation and it was working like a month ago

[manic citrus]

also weird: in the mister core the 'negcon-wheel' controller type doesn't do anything? it's exactly the same as negcon

[bright yacht]

negcon-wheel should use pre-defined maps from a usb racing wheel

[manic citrus]

ah there it is

[manic citrus]

ah, you can't hotswap from negon->negcon+rumble, that's probably what got me

you know an example of a game that breaks if presented with DS type rumble?

[bright yacht]

Try the ridge racer games. ie: RR4

RC de Go also does not work correctly. I believe the game starts but the I and II analog buttons does not work in-game.

[manic citrus]

I assume that behavior is on real hardware too? so if you plug one of those negcon+rumble wheels into a real psx RR4 is broken?

[bright yacht]

Yes, same on real hardware. (I only tested on the core via SNAC as I do not have a ps1)

A have a few devices that works as negcon+rumble. Most of them have an option to disable rumble and force it to be a "pure original negcon". Probably for compatibility reasons.

[north dome]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uMcim5KEi8&t=25s the steam version is the best way to play it if you install this mod. 7 and 9 both have this mod

[somber steppe]

Is there a mod to get analog controls in ff7?

[serene nebula]

No

[somber steppe]

You're a dev. Develop one.

[serene nebula]

No

[somber steppe]

Develop one and put loot boxes in it.

[serene nebula]

Ok!

Now you’re talking my language

[somber steppe]

Nasty devs always with the lootboxes while the upstanding and moral publishers get the blame. ☹️

[silver ravine]

What can I do if one particular game not working properly?
Vigilatne 8 2nd on PSX core crashes trying to load character selection screen. I played a bunch of other games and everything worked fine, even first vigilante game so I don't thng there's a problem with my core in general. And it's not image problem, I tried 2 different images (CHD and IMG\CUE) and also tried them on PC emulator and they worked fine.

[ivory verge]

Default settings ?

[silver ravine]

Yep

At least I think so. I didn't intentionally change anything

[ivory verge]

I will check

[silver ravine]

Thx. I'll provide any info if needed

[ivory verge]

Ntsc-u version?

[silver ravine]

yep

CHD got from archive.org

I'll try rev 1 version, just noticed that there's one

[little frost]

@silver ravine just loaded it up and right after selecting my level it goes to a black screen…assuming that’s where the character select screen is supposed to be?

just looked up a youtube video and yep, the character select screen is supposed to appear but it doesn’t. Also using CHD…going to try bin/cue

[little frost]

nope, bin/cue gives the same result. I used redump as well, so this may be a core bug after all

Ok, so reverting to the 04/10 core, the character select screen loads up fine for Vigilante 8: 2nd Offense

[ivory verge]

Yes , same for me, black screen

[little frost]

seems to be a regression

interestingly on the 04/10 core the CHD version exhibits the same behavior, but bin/cue works

actually…it seems random…tried to load bin/cue on the 4/10 core again and it black screened after level select 🤔

yeah, I just tried loading bin/cue again on the 4-18 core and it worked this time 😅

[manic citrus]

it seems to be an old bug, a few mentions of it in the old chat

there may be some mentions of it in this channel earlier, but "forums"+discord search is lol

[cosmic ledge]

had some weird issues with the psx core lately with multiple games getting vertical stripes across the textures, ill have to screenshot it next time i see it but the odd bit is it still plays fine but ugly until you reboot the core, but also if a save state is done during the issue it will create the issue again if that state is loaded.

[desert otter]

While I'm not the biggest fan of these ESRGAN style upscaled image mods due to how it both adds some details but smears other things with that "painterly" look, I will say that the increase in resolution, clarity and detail helps to make it so the character models don't feel so disconnected from the environments which does help with the visual immersion

[silver ravine]

Yep, that's what happens to me too. So what I'm doing now? Just wait for a possible fix in the next core update? I don't think that downgrading my core is a good solution.
I'm kinda new to mister and I don't see as much stuff I can try by myself as for regular emulators.

[wide patrol]

Does the psx core output a warbling image with the mismatched textures of a real psx? Or does it output perfect geometry like psx emulators?

[desert otter]

Even software emulators don't fix the lack of z buffer and z fighting without mods and hacks

[oblique frost]

it outputs like a real psx

[desert otter]

And FPGA is all about accuracy

[wide patrol]

K I mean that’s what I want

[little frost]

no, downgrading the core isn’t a good solution either since I experienced the same bug there too. I was able to get the game to work fine once in the latest core too, it just appears that this bug is random

[tropic stratus]

i fear there is no easy solution. If it's only a one-time-pass point, you could create a savestate some time before, try to pass it until it works, then savestate again and play the game. If this situation occurs more often, maybe some option (e.g. turbo low or CD speed) could help.
We can add a github issue for it, but I don't have time to look into it currently, sorry

[manic citrus]

I see references in the past to the exact same issue, and people saying it was fixed. I dunno if that was a deliberate fix or more of a 'it just started working incidentally thing'

[tropic stratus]

hard to say without a lot of testing of current and old versions, but it sounds like some race condition when loading the next scene...

[silver ravine]

Got it, thank you. I appreciate your efforts. Guess I'll play something else then.

[weak widget]

It was also released for N64, so you could try that version as an alternative

[mortal oracle]

Just tested this out, turbo low doesn’t seem to fix the issue, but turbo high does seem to. (Tested a few times). Note: I didn’t try medium.

Medium also seems to work. Low seems hit and miss (works sometimes but not others)

[tropic stratus]

thank you for testing. No idea if turbo will hurt with the game. Personally i like racing type games with higher/stable framerate more so I hope it's acceptable for the time being

[mortal oracle]

No problem at all 🙂

[cloud vault]

I know it is no longer necessary but what was the last release for the dual ram of the PSX core? Wife forbids me from getting a CRT I went with a dual ram setup.

[serene nebula]

Hey friend, I’m pretty sure this one is the latest - #1046940919607345272 message

Oops sent you to the link that has the link lol

But yeah, that one is latest. Updated with the latest framework changes.

[cloud vault]

Yes I have that after an Update all cycle was curious if there was a dual ram version like the Saturn core.

[serene nebula]

Holy hell I’m dumb

One second very sorry

[cloud vault]

no worries at all

[serene nebula]

@scenic reef hate to bug you but do you know what the latest PSX dual ram build is?

Is it the latest one you did with the framework update? It’s now an option to use SDRAM right for the audio?

I’m over 1,800 km / 1,100 mi from my MiSTer lol

[manic citrus]

moderator status revoked

[scenic reef]

yeah i think i posted a build in here awhile ago lemme see...

oh wait i just did the psx2x core

[manic citrus]

ya'll need to stop building dual ram psx builds, you're just perpetuating mythology at this point

[scenic reef]

yeah no reason to do the dual sdram build

it should autodetect now in the main core if you have dual sdram and give you the option if i remember correctly

[cloud vault]

Understood thank you so much for the help!

[scenic reef]

Here's how you see how it works

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PSX_MiSTer/blob/main/PSX.sv#L408 - d1 flag means active low for "1" on the status_menumask.
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PSX_MiSTer/blob/main/PSX.sv#L481 - SDRAM2_EN is the signal that will trigger this

[dusky marten]

"d1P1O[44],SPU RAM select,DDR3,SDRAM2;",

wire [15:0] status_menumask = {hack_480p, filter_on, saving_memcard, (bk_pending | saving_memcard), bk_pending, status[59], multitap, biosMod, ~TURBO_MEM, (status[55] && ~hack_480p), (PadPortDS1 | PadPortDS2), dbg_enabled, (PadPortGunCon1 | PadPortGunCon2 | PadPortJustif1 | PadPortJustif2), SDRAM2_EN, (snacPort1 | snacPort2)};

[scenic reef]

it makes zero difference to the ear or compatibility though

it's only measurable with like audacity recordings and such, you'd have to go spot the dropped audio sample every second or whatever

[manic citrus]

it still requires a separate build tho

[scenic reef]

does it? i thought that was done away with

oh nvm then, either way

it's kinda pointless to build the dual sdram version

and it stresses timing more

to have dual sdram

meaning you have to go through more seeds of builds till you get a good one

[cloud vault]

Very well again thank you so much for the leg work I learned something new today 🙂

[scenic reef]

which i distinctly remember when i was building it more

[manic citrus]

search SDRAM2_EN in that file, set to zero unless MISTER_DUAL_SDRAM is set

[scenic reef]

yeah true

[manic citrus]

I wonder if we'll ever shed the saturn dual builds. the readme still recommends it so I assume srg has reasons, but testing really isn't bearing that out

[scenic reef]

oh? recent builds show no compatibility difference anymore?

[manic citrus]

I guess if you have dodgy primary ram it helps

[serene nebula]

Honestly I’m not trying to do so. But it’s a fair point, the dual ram build isn’t actually beneficial in any human detectable capacity.

[manic citrus]

I'd have to go dig up the spreadsheets but saturn dual vs single seems like a wash last I looked

[scenic reef]

wow that' sgood progress

i know he's been tweaking the sdram controller steadily

[serene nebula]

Yeah, anecdotal evidence from me but I can’t seem to find a difference between dual and single ram on my end.

[scenic reef]

very cool

[wide patrol]

Is there a compiled compatibility list for the psx core anywhere?

[mortal oracle]

Basically assume everything works except like one pool game

[ivory verge]

There is no such list , and all bugs known about are on github

[mortal oracle]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PSX_MiSTer/issues?page=1&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen

[serene nebula]

Yeah, well said. That’s basically the expectation for any completed MiSTer core. Since it’s reproducing the console hardware and not emulating specific features, everything works until proven otherwise.

[manic citrus]

analogue told me fpgas aren't emulation

[serene nebula]

That’s what the P in FPGA stands for though

Pemulation

[mortal oracle]

The “not emulation” crashes the master system version of bubble bobble on my analogue pocket 😔

(Fixed by pausing and unpausing, weirdly)

[little frost]

I guess if anyone was worried, they could turn the setting on to get to the character select screen and then turn it back off

[serene nebula]

Or they can the play the superior Rogue Trip

[mortal oracle]

There’s one I hadn’t heard of before. Thanks!

[serene nebula]

I mean “superior” is subjective but it’s made the same devs behind Twisted Metal 1 and 2 and I really enjoyed it.

Basically TM3

[mortal oracle]

tbh I’ve never really played the TM games all that much anyway

And they seem like the sort of game that’s better multiplayer, which is harder to manage as an adult 😄

[serene nebula]

Yeah I agree

[mortal oracle]

If only MiSTer netplay were a thing 😭

[little frost]

@mortal oracle that’s the dream 🥹

[serene nebula]

I think it was out of scope for the core but link cable support would be cool

[viral inlet]

if someone gets a link cable working someone will figure out how to play it online

Saturn internet play let's go

[manic citrus]

ah! got the negcon rumble working. would have been much quicker if I noticed the core disables switching to analog mode on non dualshock controllers

[serene nebula]

Hah, rookie mistake

[tropic stratus]

what does that mean? Will we be able to use negcon+wheel now with rumble for racing games?

I remember we discussed that long ago but there wasn't really a result on what games support that

[manic citrus]

yeah, Sonik knows which ones, and I believe the support in duckstation is from him. I have it mostly working, just need to clean it up a bit. also unfortunately there are some games that break if you have a negcon that responds to 'config mode' so I have to sort that out too...

[tropic stratus]

sounds good. If there is anything i can help with on the core side, let me know

[runic edge]

I've started playing Vagrant Story on the core and am overcome with wonder... about how stupid I have been to have ignored this game until now!

Still can't believe it's coming out of the little MiSTer beside my TV. Incredible.

[somber steppe]

That game is definitely on my bucket list, but first I need to finish the final fantasies and educate myself about dragon quest by playing all the games.

[runic edge]

I think its a bit devisive people find it a bit boring or repetitive but at the moment I am just stunned by the visuals I just can't believe they achieved it

[abstract drift]

it does look amazing

[viral inlet]

I always thought the combat system looked cool

[somber steppe]

This describes 99% of modern games.

[desert otter]

@runic edge it has far more detailed graphics than playing it at original resolution can do justice for. If you were to emulate it and run it at a higher resolution so it resolves with more clarity, you can see all kinds of tiny amazing details to the textures.

mainly the face and head textures with some outfits

[runic edge]

Cool I'll check that out! Thank you!

One of the coolest things about playing these games on the core is the ability to switch between screens so easily

[desert otter]

not sure what that means lol

[runic edge]

Oh yeah I see

You said emulate

Higher res

I'm looking at it the opening now on the pc and your right the details in faces and alot of the textures really outstanding. Now I'm not sure which way I want to continue playing it! Damn you!!

[desert otter]

apply a scanline/crt filter to the emulator and see if it's the best of both worlds or not lol.

a lot of these JRPG games had more details than they needed to in their textures for being on a console that would output 224p resolution

Did you guys know that RidgeRacer on PSX is so small it can load the game files necessary into memory completely not needing to read from the disc?
And that once you hit the screen with the start button to start a race, you can swap out the disc with a music CD and play the CD music while racing?

Pretty cool.

The only thing it reads from the disc while racing at that point is the music

which is why it works

[weak widget]

Cool didn't know that!

[mortal oracle]

I didn't know that. That's awesome!

[viral inlet]

There were, iirc, a bunch of games that could do this in the CD era

I thought the original Xbox letting you load your own music tracks for some games was rad as hell at the time.

[manic citrus]

@bright yacht try this core version. NeGcon rumble menu item will show up whenever any controller is configured as a negcon.

you'll probably have to reset/restart most games if you change the rumble setting. because the controller type doesn't change most games don't see the controller as going away so they don't requery it

[abstract drift]

is it worth putting in a brief pad disconnect when the pad type switches? i could imagine that helping quite a few cases

though i actually can't think of any

[bright yacht]

Just tested and it's working. Yay!

[serene nebula]

I must play this core with this controller:

[craggy forge]

After installing dual ram module and update the core, I get some video and audio stutters. Also the turbo mode when active doesn't seem to do much (compared to before) and causes some nasty polygon glitches.
Is that something anybody else encountered with dual ram?
I did a full ram test and it tested as fine, but could the ram simply be too slow?
I tried to change a lot of settings, it doesn't seem to change much, but maybe I am missing something?

[lilac scaffold]

the core wont use the 2nd SDRAM unless you get a specific build, so I dont think the second stick should cause issues
what speed did the sdram test drop to?
if its only PSX you're seeing issues with you could try deleting /config/PSX*.cfg

maybe delete the core and let update_all grab it again too

[craggy forge]

ah ok, that makes sense.
Good question about the speed, I guess I can test it from the usual ram test core?

[lilac scaffold]

yeah, it should default to auto mode where it drops speed on each error till it remains stable

it only tests the main SDRAM module tho

[craggy forge]

ok, thanks I will test it right away 👍

[lilac scaffold]

if one module passes at higher speed use that as your main one, not a lot will touch the second

[craggy forge]

Do you know how to switch between modules? Is that the 2 dots beside the detected ram size?

[lilac scaffold]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/MemTest_MiSTer

you can switch between testing the 2 RAM chips on the main module, but it doesnt test the second module

[craggy forge]

Ah yes, that's what I was wondering

Oh well, if it's not using the second module anyway...

[lilac scaffold]

birdybro had a build that did, but i think there were concerns of what would happen if running it with an analogue IO board connected 🙂

yeah

what speed did it settle at?

[craggy forge]

It tests fine at 145MHz so far

[craggy forge]

True. Might not be pretty

[lilac scaffold]

hmm, seems fine then

if saturn works OK, that's probably the ultimate SDRAM test

[craggy forge]

Yeah it seems. I'll let it run for a while just in case

[craggy forge]

It kind of does, there are some glitches but I believe it's kind of expected.

[lilac scaffold]

deff worth deleting the config files/core too if its largely PSX impacted

[craggy forge]

Once that test is done I'll reset and redownload the psx core to test it again

I also wonder if using a dual shock 4 with a BT dongle can have an impact on performance, as it's constantly sending out data. Since the fpga and the Linux hid management are separated I'd think it shouldn't matter, but asking just in case.

[craggy forge]

Any point in using a dual ram core for PSX beside some rare improvements in streaming stuff from CD?

[lilac scaffold]

nah, robert focused on single. the only benefit of dual SDRAM is some incredibly tiny audio delay improvement (nanoseconds)

theres no extra caching of cd data or anything

stuttering could be the core pausing if its slow getting data, due to HPS being busy like you mentioned or slow storage
dont recall folks reporting dualshock 4 as causing issues

[craggy forge]

I did a clean reinstallation of the core, stutters seem to be gone now, thanks for the assist 🍻

I still get bad visual glitches when using the turbo mode tho. I don't remember having the glitches on the same games before, but I could be wrong.

For info, when switching turbo mode to High in battles in Chrono Cross, the 3d models are blinking in and out randomly

[marsh canopy]

hi all, i'm jumping back into mister after being away for a while and am having trouble figuring out if there is any benefit to converting my entire PSX BIN/CUE library to CHD or not for this MiSTer core.

[hard laurel]

Benefit is much smaller file sizes.

[marsh canopy]

but there's no difference in performance?

[hard laurel]

As far as I am aware there isn't but others can elaborate. I personally don't use CHD and use BIN/CUE.

[lilac scaffold]

if using the higher speed (forced/hack) CD settings then it can matter, otherwise you're fine either way

you can set chdman to compress using a method that gives you a bit larger file (still way smaller than the original) but lowers the decompression overhead so it shouldn't really matter
-c cdzs,cdfl -hs 9792
#1046940919607345272 message

[tacit fox]

Any help is appreciated: #1046941029296779344 message

[scenic reef]

need the matching memory cards

@serene nebula

[serene nebula]

Holy shit that’s awesome LOL

[bright yacht]

It's going to be merged or better to keep it as a alternative core?

[manic citrus]

I'll send a PR eventually, want to verify a few things first

[ancient steppe]

it is not. I'd rather have a crt filter with the original psx release than GAN ~~deformed ~~ upscaled backgrounds

[fluid condor]

On duckstation I prefer to play with downscaling + scanline filters. 3d characters fit perfectly with 2d bg.

[marsh star]

Anyone use the Interact v3 racing wheel via their SNAC adapter? I hear it's pretty good?

[serene nebula]

Yeah it’s great

[marsh star]

Oh sick! Good to know. It supports the analog pedals and everything? Also, does it have rumble?

[serene nebula]

Uhhhhh, I think it does actually.

It’s been a while since I used it

The rumble that is. Analog pads yes.

[marsh star]

Cool! i'm gonna get one

Thanks for the info

[tropic stratus]

@manic citrus a huge change, thanks a lot for spending the time to figure everything out!

[serene nebula]

👀

[tropic stratus]

i still need to test it with colin 2.0 and GT2 using a wheel in negcon config

really curious how well it will work. Negcon-wheel mode delivers much better steering, but without feedback on the wheel it was not great, so maybe it's perfect now

[bright yacht]

I'm not sure that mister sends rumble commands to a FFB wheel

[bright yacht]

Oh and I believe GT2 does not support negcon rumble. Only GT1.
Sony promoting the crappyshock dualshock? 😅

If anyone's interested in testing the rumble feature, this is a list of games with negcon rumble support made by me and Silent.

Advan Racing
Arkanoid R 2000
Colin Mcrae Rally
Colin Mcrae Rally 2.0
Crash Team Racing
Gran Turismo 1
Italian Job
Jarred & Labonete Stock Car Racing
NASCAR '99 Legacy
NASCAR 2000
NASCAR 2001 & Thunder 2002, 2003, 2004
NASCAR Rumble
Need For Speed 4
Rally de Africa
Rally de Europe
Side by Side Special 2000
TOCA WTC
TOCA1
TOCA2
Wipeout 3

[manic citrus]

doesn't NASCAR Rumble also support it?

although maybe best to ignore that game...

[bright yacht]

Oh yeah it does! Forgot about it

[serene nebula]

NASCAR Rumble is actually good. It’s an arcade racer with power ups.

[tropic stratus]

maybe i missed the point of the change. Always assumed this was mostly for wheels. Why would you want negcon with rumble otherwise? I'm not aware a real negcon with rumble exist and negcon mapped to pad always seemed strange for me. Please tell me more 🙂

[bright yacht]

Some PS1 racing wheels reports as negcon. Some of those wheels also feature rumble when in negcon mode.

Negcon mode is useful even if playing using a modern dualstick controller as some older games will only support analog input from a negcon.
Those older games can also use the rumble feature from said negcon

So it's possible to play those older games with a modern dualstick controller (ie: xbox or ps4/5), to have analog steering and rumble

[tropic stratus]

i see, thank you 🙂

[bright yacht]

Now if we can get mister to send some rumble to FFB wheels

@manic citrus do you happen to have a ffb racing wheel?

[desert otter]

You telling me I can use my Driving Force GT now?

[bright yacht]

It should work on mister... Support for racing wheels was implemented long ago

But it will only have the autocentering force. No rumble, no FFB...

[tropic stratus]

there is a list of supported wheel somewhere in the mister main c code

[desert otter]

I figured no FFB lol

[tropic stratus]

maybe only centering is in, i thought rumble was working in dualshock mode, but maybe my memory is just bad

[bright yacht]

AFAIK the driver does not support rumble

Someone would need to write support on the driver level or on mister main (input.cpp) and send FFB commands

[tropic stratus]

you are most likely right. The last time i used it was like 2 years ago with a G29 wheel and colin 2.0

i have no fixed spot for the wheel and i'm lazy, so i always played with ps5 pad instead 😅

[manic citrus]

hmm, I have the old standby logitech g29. that's ffb right?

[desert otter]

Yes. The g29 is the more updated brother of the driving force GT/G27

[bright yacht]

Yeap

[manic citrus]

I'll drag it out later and see what it does

[desert otter]

I don't think Logitech has ever released a non FFB wheel since the driving force GT

[manic citrus]

and then play dirt rally for a week

[bright yacht]

I've been using a wireless wheel (with ffb!) and loving it. It's pretty good for arcade style games. And best of it is that I don't need a dedicated space for it. I'ts made to be used resting on the lap

[desert otter]

Put on a VR headset and play asetto corsa

[bright yacht]

The (logitech) driver does not implement FF_RUMBLE

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Linux-Kernel_MiSTer/blob/9521b003c7e1872521548981ce56e408e3412a08/drivers/hid/hid-lg4ff.c#L162-L176

[dusky marten]

static const signed short lg4ff_wheel_effects[] = {
    FF_CONSTANT,
    FF_SPRING,
    FF_DAMPER,
    FF_AUTOCENTER,
    FF_PERIODIC,
    FF_SINE,
    FF_SQUARE,
    FF_TRIANGLE,
    FF_SAW_UP,
    FF_SAW_DOWN,
    FF_RAMP,
    FF_FRICTION,
    -1
};

[desert otter]

Um... Wouldn't CONSTANT and SINE be rumble?

[bright yacht]

Rumble can be simulated via FF_CONSTANT commands. Send a command to force the wheel rotation, then send a command to stop, ... repeat..

Yeah it can work. Also via FF_PERIODIC.

The thing is: mister only uses FF_RUMBLE

[tropic stratus]

so just sending a different command might be enough to get at least some effect?

[desert otter]

I think doing a little forced rotation side to side coupled with a dead zone for the wheel can give you a little feedback that won't mess up your driving

[bright yacht]

The command might need some other variables... I'm not very familiar with all the FFB stuff

I did an adapter for a gamecube ffb wheel (it only supports FF_CONSTANT) and I did a fake rumble effect by doing: move left, wait, move right, wait... repeat.
Applying different force and interval based on the "rumble ammount/force"

Also did this on a xbox wheel adapter (connects logitech wheels to ogXbox)
https://github.com/sonik-br/xid_wheel_adapter/blob/main/pico_xbox_wheel_adapter/pico_xbox_wheel_adapter.ino#L268-L322
Same idea, but using native lotitech commands (not using a linux driver)

[tropic stratus]

would be great if we could have something like this. I know, it's very special and has not many use cases, but such cool extra features i always liked

[bright yacht]

I hope @manic citrus can also take a look at this 🙂

Btw I believe raphnet adapters uses FFB commands for rumble. Does it work on mister?

[manic citrus]

yeah, I'll look. some of what we can achieve may be limited by various devices linux drivers, but we can at least get some of the common ones working I'd think

[tropic stratus]

i think rumble doesn't work with raphnet currently

[bright yacht]

If raphnet does not have a dedicated driver, I believe it will fallback to this one:
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Linux-Kernel_MiSTer/blob/9521b003c7e1872521548981ce56e408e3412a08/drivers/hid/usbhid/hid-pidff.c

This is the old spec of having force feedback on a plain HID device

Oh, I believe that Dolphin emulator can also simulate rumble on FFB devices. Worth taking a look at how it does this.

[abstract drift]

i've got a FFB wheel (logitech g27) if i can help test anything

[manic citrus]

hmm, annoying. the logitech I have sets the FF_RUMBLE bit to true, but it may be lying

also I really need to add a controller db entry for this thing

[bright yacht]

zakk you will need to put it into ps3 mode for the HID driver to pick it

when in ps4 mode it will show as a Dualshock4... driver will say it have rumble but it does not support dualshock4 style rumble at all...

[manic citrus]

ah ha. you need to set the direction on FF_RUMBLE otherwise it seems to get ignored with this driver. I think the kernel is converting FF_RUMBLE to FF_SINE but not explicitly setting the direction. so you have to

[bright yacht]

FF_RUMBLE does have a direction? lol

[manic citrus]

I think the answer is 'no', but the FF_EFFECT struct does, and the code that emulates rumble with periodic+sine doesn't set it

and 0 == 'up'

and the wheel ignores up/down

[bright yacht]

It can also mean the axis index? wheel ffb is single axis

[manic citrus]

yeah, left or right direction causes the wheel to 'rumble' to the left either way.

[manic citrus]

hmm. so correcting for the 'direction' thing, on my linux desktop FF_RUMBLE works properly on the wheel. on the mister it causes the wheel to rotate to the left. even FF_SINE on the mister causes left rotation when it doesn't on my desktop

and it persists even if I replace all the lgff modules, AND ff-core+ff-memless

was hoping I could get away with not compiling a completely different kernel version...

[bright yacht]

FFB is a pain to work with. I'm also having a bad time trying to do ffb on duckstation (for jogcon).

[manic citrus]

I think the driver might actually be broken in 32bit environments. there's a github issue with someone reporting the same sort of behavior, and they merged a PR to fix it. but I'm wondering if it didn't really fix it/regressed somehow

[manic citrus]

confirmed, it's a 32bit specific bug. later commit regressed it. change a single cast on one line and rumble works fine

[grand sage]

I recently bought for the first time a NegCon in good condition.
Everything works but i ha a slight drift to the left when in neutral position. Is this a known issue with the controller or MiSTer? And how can i fix it?

[abstract drift]

its probably a mechanical problem, the springs wear out iirc

most games have a deadzone you can set i think?

[grand sage]

indeed. thanks man. you saved my weekend 🙂

[somber steppe]

I was about to train my characters in ff9 for the superbosses and just found out how many weapons and therefore skills are missable. That's kinda lame.

[silent bridge]

I’ve come to accept that with age and a wide variety of interests, I’m okay just playing the main game and story - not going for all of the hardcore content. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the appeal of trying to fight a giga boss whose HP requires an hourlong fight (with the high probability of losing that real time).

[somber steppe]

It's still kinda dumb that vivi can't learn blizzaga because I didn't visit a secret town on disc3 and didn't buy a specific weapon for him. I ended up editing my savefile because I genuinely think it's bad game design.

[silent bridge]

So if I don't do that (quite likely), what's his peak then, blizzara? I think that's the one step down blizzard

[somber steppe]

You can still get flare and stuff, I just think it's stupid you can't fill out your list.

[bitter lintel]

will you ever be able to let go of your grudge?

[somber steppe]

No, I'll convert to dragon quest and never look back.

[serene nebula]

I heard this is the channel to talk about how much more powerful the Saturn is than the PS1

[somber steppe]

It would be, but we don't talk about unfinished cores in this channel

[grand sage]

Just received my Guncon today for my Mister. Never owned one. I look forward to try it out.

[somber steppe]

Close the curtains when you do, cops might drive by and feel threatened.

[desert otter]

Why needs a gun con when you can have one of these

Just look at it.
So ergonomic.

[storm barn]

Noot Noot

[mortal oracle]

Not for PSX, but this is my favourite controller for ergonomics

Imagine 100 hours playing Dragon Quest 11 with that bad boy!

[serene nebula]

I just realized I own the PS2 controller version and I can use it on the core. 🤯

[mortal oracle]

There’s a PS2 slime controller? 😂

Amazing!

You can play DQ7 using a controller presumably released to coincide with the release of DQ8. The universe might end though

Or maybe you can get some usb adapter thing and play DQ1 with it

[serene nebula]

I forgot I have the slime stand too for the DS lol

[mortal oracle]

I’m jealous of your DQ merch

[tawny palm]

Not as comfortable as the RE4 chainsaw controller!

[hazy otter]

I have the original PS1 controller, the rubber coating turned to glue and it's a fucking mess. I wanted to disassemble it to clean it up properly but I can't figure out how it comes apart, and it's looking a bit... Grim.

Fun thing tho.

[silent bridge]

I still say they were inspired by Hershey’s Kisses 🤪

[random gust]

I guess it's now more authentic?

Removing rubber-turned-goo is a tedious task. I tried isopropyl on a power bank, but that alone was not enough. Had to use a strong brush to get rid of the coating altogether.

[desert otter]

You want to use stuff like goo be gone I think

[viral inlet]

I didn't think you could fix that but then again I don't know I ever had anything worth fixing that had ended up like that.

[bright girder]

So I’m playing the mega man legends 2 (psp improvements patch) and it’s not always saving to the memory card, like it feels flakey. The only other time I experienced this was playing the English translation of Aconcagua before the core went public. That’s been fixed since.

I’m making sure to open to osd to let it save, but when I reboot the mister it often reverts to the previous save. I even checked all my virtual memory cards to make sure I hadn’t switched it or anything. Thankfully I’m able to use save states but I can’t depend on the in game saving. Any ideas?

[patent junco]

I don't think I've experienced anything like this while playing other games, do you know if the patch in question is A++ on real hardware?

[bright girder]

No clue

I may try deleting that mcd file and starting a fresh one to see if it got corrupted or something

That’s my only idea

More odd behaviour I noticed, is that i got the saving to stick by saving to slot 2 instead and then when I rebooted that save was in slot 1, really peculiar behaviour lol

[patent junco]

that certainly is odd, that definitely sounds like a good first step though

[serene nebula]

Not sure if this helps but I never had issues saving the game with Mega Man Legends 2

[bright girder]

That’s useful info Robby, I didn’t either but I only played 2 ish hours into the vanilla copy on mister

[visual depot]

that's absolutely trash info... thanks for being useless brocolli

[serene nebula]

“useless broccoli” 🤣 I like that one

[visual depot]

I love broccoli. But not useless broccoli

[merry hound]

Yeah but do you have....

[glad copper]

This place is always crazy. I'm outta here.

[silent bridge]

Cute but crispy crackers that looks completely uncomfortable to play 😓

[halcyon ravine]

Question: is it normal for the PSX core to crash with a guncon 2 connected?

[lilac scaffold]

not normal, but if you miscalibrate the gun it can make the core crash (at least it used to)
try deleting or renaming the /config/PSX_gun_cal_<controller_ID>_v2.cfg file

[bright girder]

I played a couple hours further into the mml2 psp patch using save states as saves and now the regular save function is working again. It must have been a fluke, or that one spot…? I’m not sure. Needless to say I’m save stating and saving for the rest of the game lol.

[halcyon ravine]

ugh did not work. Using the buttons to navigate is fine, but the PSX Core will crash the moment the GC2 points at the (CRT) screen.
It seems to work fine when I do the F10 calibration test on the menu core. SNES core has not crashed but I have yet to figure out how to get it to work on here (and other console cores). I made sure the GC2's are working fine on my PS2 (and they are).

[meager parrot]

just saw one of these at the local game store a couple days ago and was thinking that dpad looks like absolute trash. had never seen one before that and here it is popping up on discord also

[shut escarp]

they've been making the rounds for last couple weeks, How much did that shop want? I saw they were like 80-120 on ebay

[bright girder]

@serene nebula The slime has a cousin

Lmao it completely dwarves my hand. It’s legit bigger than a duke or a n64 controller. It’s about as dense as a guncon.

[somber steppe]

Looks very Australian

[bright girder]

It does kind of look like an angry tarantula

[patent junco]

Someone looked at the PS3 prototype controller and said “yes, that looks good”

[vagrant moat]

https://tenor.com/view/crocodile-dundee-paul-the-very-excellent-mr-dundee-throwback-vintage-gif-19065330

The official controller of Crocodile Dundee!

[viral inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/batman-returns-batarang-funny-action-surrounded-gif-25263650

Looks like the guided batarang from that scene

[spring elk]

Oh, what could have been... 😄

[hazy otter]

Alps released a pad very similar to that. It looks amazing, feels amazing, plays like an irritated crab.

[runic siren]

This one? #1046940919607345272 message

[hazy otter]

No, don't be silly, that's way too far scrolled up to be relevant.

Also yes maybe shhhh

[spring elk]

Yeah... I know that, but thanks.

[tawny palm]

You could bludgeon someone to death with that thing!

[bright girder]

Oh wow I should get me one of those

[meager parrot]

$15

[shut escarp]

Sick!

[hazy otter]

They're not good.

[bright girder]

I may or may not have one… I was being sarcas— Oh right it’s too scrolled up to be relevant 😛

[hazy otter]

Well played, my friend. One internet kudo for you.

[bright girder]

Am I really kudo winner if I have an irritated crab in my possession? 🦀

[hazy otter]

It's a little known fact that irritated crabs are placated by internet kudos. The problem is you need two of them, so... to successfully placate your crab you gotta be cool one more time

[slate stratus]

Quick question about video accuracy and performance vs original hardware. I’ve got a friend who just got their first mister and was doing some testing with the psx core. They said that they noticed some small differences in graphical representation in legend of dragoon and then some bits of slowdown in tony hawk pro skater 2. Do these claims sound possible? My understanding was that the psx core was pretty much just like original hardware.

[serene nebula]

Did they compare it against original hardware?

[slate stratus]

More than likely yes. They’ve been using original hardware for years, but I’m not sure what type of cables or other factors might be influencing their original hardware experience.

[ivory verge]

I don't know this game well( legend of dragoon) , but differences are possible. Of course, the core tries to reproduce the original hardware as accurately as possible.

Check github, there are several errors and differences

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PSX_MiSTer/issues

[serene nebula]

I don’t know if I trust anyone who’s a hardcore Legend of Dragoon fan 🧐

[desert otter]

I'm not a hardcore fan, but I do like the game. I thought Sony did a great job making their own RPG. They implemented some new things and I liked the button timing thing in battles to make your attacks more powerful

I also like the music

[dawn wind]

Even different revisions of the original PSX could perform slightly different in different games. Kind of interesting really.

[serene nebula]

Yeah that blew my mind when I learned of that during the core’s development

Later PS1 models had a different GPU which is wild

[deft sphinx]

I didn't appreciate that, how did Robert handle that? Did he pick a specific hardware revision and recreate that one?

[glad raven]

I'd like to point something out that consistently came up when I was running audio tests on my different PlayStation revisions: it seems the SCPH-7000 models and later, in other words, those with slower main crystals multiplied through a PLL, consistently run a bit slower than those that have a 53.693175/53.2034MHz oscillator. Whenever I would go to pick a specific spot in each recording, those with the crystal + PLL always had time stamps that were later than the SCPH-5500 and earlier models. Perhaps this is related?

[dawn wind]

That's way above my pay grade

Then again, most things are

Even most thongs are, come to think of it.

[glad raven]

Might be worth measuring the frequencies on those later PlayStation revisions to confirm if they are truly running with a small underclock.

[fluid condor]

This resident evil rectangle bug is pretty annoying once you see it heh... https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PSX_MiSTer/issues/260

I remember Robert saying it might be mdec issue.

Mdec is bit off that gives some patchy off color in some fmvs. Hard to see most of time tho.

But pretty clear to see in fear effect especially if you compare with real hw. https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PSX_MiSTer/issues/275

[slate stratus]

I had no idea there were any differences with the core and real hardware. For the most part they seem minor though, right? Still worth using over original hardware unless you are the most hardcore psx player I suppose?

[mortal oracle]

You’d really have to be “pixel peeping” as @hollow stratus says, to notice the difference, and even then, it’s likely only in the smallest handful of games. On balance, I think it would be very difficult to recommend original hardware over the core, given e.g. the ease of a nice clean HDMI output, lack of issues with the CD drive on MiSTer

That’s probably the case with all cores though. The MiSTer cores may have bugs/inconsistencies compared with original hardware, but for the more mature ones, you’re probably looking at incredibly minor issues in something insane like 0.1% of games. (Number made up, but they’re incredibly rare)

[weak widget]

Another difference, although minor as well, is that some games don't render specific sound effects well. What comes to mind is the codes sound in Metal Gear Solid. I do tend to notice also some different in Final Fantasy games. Recently Ive been playing FFVIII and when you start new game the sound effect sounds a little off.

However this specific case might also be due to MiSTer audio out or tv. Haven't tested more thoroughly yet.
Other than that, I really prefer MiSTer PS1 core over original hardware.

Also really awesome that I was able to backup saves from my old memory cards through MiSTer using SNAC with an origami multitap. Had a PAL save from FFVIII from more then at least 23 years ago right before the final boss. Converted the save to NTSC with memcardrex. Nostalgia hit hard when I loaded it 🙂

I actually bought the multitap so I can play Chocobo World on my pocket station in conjunction with FFVIII

[slate stratus]

I for one am definitely not pixel peeping on psx. I never owned a psx growing up and even when I had one recently with an xstation, I only touched a handful of games. So for me to play anything, I'd just assume that's how it was on OG hardware. My friend, on the other hand, is a big PS fan (especially JRPGs) and is a collector. So there's going to probably still be a bit of skepticism on his part despite being pleasantly surprised what the MiSTer can do.

[slate stratus]

That's actually really cool about the memcards. My friend probably has some memory cards as well. Interesting your note about the sfx... are the incorrect sounds noticibly different? My friend is a big FF fan, so my guess is he may notice something like that.

[fluid condor]

Differences in mister cores are pretty much within differences of real hw revisions. Just don't go flipping between mister and real hw with a switcher 😅

[tropic stratus]

the GPU speed isn't emulated perfectly, as we don't have the original VRAM, but instead the DDR3 with it's downsides(high, random latency) is used. So on average the GPU speed is higher than with all PS1 models, but under some conditions it's slightly slower than the fast model, but should never be slower than the slow model. There is also a slowdown options which moves it somewhere between fast and slow model that helps in some games that depends on the GPU timing. However, most games(>99%) don't depend on it at all.
So basically the PSX core has the same issue as the N64 core with the DDR3, but only on the GPU path, not for the whole system.

[silent bridge]

Why can RAM not be reproduced in an FPGA like CPUs and GPUs?

[tropic stratus]

Because the Cyclone 5 FPGA on the DE10-Nano only has about 600 kbyte and the PS1 VRAM is already 1024 kbyte in size

so external ram must be used until we have a larger FPGA that can really replicate the original RAM inside

(there are FPGAs today which could do that even for ps1, n64 or saturn, but those are still expensive)

[patent junco]

I guess that means that porting the cores to something like MARS or a potential "MiSTer 2" wouldn't make much of a difference in that regard (assuming these things won't be absurdly priced)?

[tropic stratus]

depends on the external memory. There are boards with non-shared ddr3/4 and also ones with 32bit sdram which could replicate psx/n64 as accurate as current knowledge allows

but we will likely not see retro gaming boards with FPGA that can fit all those memories inside, at least for these consoles

if you design a board only for one purpose, e.g. only n64, it's really easy to fulfill the requirements and stay low with the price. If you want to fulfill all requirements for all cores we have, it gets hard

[desert otter]

The fact we can do what we can now with what we have is amazing and plenty enough IMO

I'm ok living without playing those few random PS1 games that just don't work right

[mortal oracle]

I’ll never buy any 5th gen or older console again, or go hunting for my originals in my parents’ loft.

[desert otter]

Save that money and put it towards a pinball machine

[mortal oracle]

More like a steering wheel and chair 😎

And/or a decent yolk and rudder pedals

[desert otter]

I already have a DFGT wheel I picked up from a Craigslist (or was it OfferUp?) deal out of some old guys garage for $20 lol

I got lucky with that one

[mortal oracle]

Oh, nice

[desert otter]

What's great about it is it's compatibility. It was made for the PS2 and 3 so it works with PS3/4/5 and PC with nearly all racing games out there because the games themselves have that compatibility built in for it cuz it's a legacy device.

[mortal oracle]

I’ve been eyeing up the Thrustmaster T300 for years due to the belt drive supposedly being quite smooth, but haven’t yet pulled the trigger. Maybe next month…

[desert otter]

It may have more old school force feedback motors and has this awesome sounding whine when the wheel turns (cuz of the motor) but if you turn up the volume or wear headphones it's all good and it has up to 900 degree turning with FFB, paddle shifter buttons and a built in sequential shifter

It's got the basics of what you want and need and it works on all the generations of consoles and PC and games. The G27 would be the next most compatible one cuz I think it was literally the same wheel but without the Gran Turismo stuff

[mortal oracle]

$765 for the (basic) setup I want 😭

[desert otter]

Yeah so the G25 was PS2 in 2004. The Driving Force GT was 2007 for PS3 with i think a G25 profile to make it work on PS2? Then the G27 in 2010

[mortal oracle]

Do you use it often?

[desert otter]

Not recently

Don't really have all the time in the world anymore lol

[mortal oracle]

That I can relate to. Damn adulting

[desert otter]

And right now I'm playing through FF7Remake (albeit slowly)

[mortal oracle]

I refuse to start until they finish the whole game 😅

As soon as I heard it was going to be more than one game, I figured I’d wait, painfully, until they all came out

[desert otter]

If I play through rebirth at the same pace I'm playing through remake they might release the third one by the time I'm done lol

[mortal oracle]

Which has the nice side effect of the earlier ones becoming more cheap

Although I wonder if they’ll be an expensive version with them all bundled together… There probably will be, and I’ll probably buy it 🤦🏻‍♂️

[desert otter]

I don't know why anybody expected it to not be more than one installment. It's a massive game and story that needed 3 discs on the PS1 lol

[mortal oracle]

I’d have been happy for a 1:1 version that was one game

And the third disc had very little story, iirc

Wasn’t it just the final bosses?

[desert otter]

It wouldn't have been a remake then. More like a remaster-ish remake. Which I would personally have be disappointed in cuz I can just do that with mods on PC

[mortal oracle]

3 games feels like a cash grab, but I love the original so I’m happy to have my cash grabbed

[desert otter]

They are taking liberties to retell the story and add stuff in that was expanded upon via the extra games and other content over the years as well as some new things

So that it's a sort of definitive all in one thing for the FF7 story

[mortal oracle]

I’m not saying that they’re not making them worthwhile games in their own right - it’s just guaranteed sales for them

[desert otter]

Well yeah. It's just business in the end lol

[mortal oracle]

A bit like hit TV shows that decide to release their final season over two years

[desert otter]

That's more like every show for any season right now lol. Get 8 episodes now and another 8 next year

[mortal oracle]

Which, if you use the UK word “series” works, but if you’re sticking with the American “season”, always makes me laugh

I love how the streaming services are also slowly moving towards weekly releases. It’s as if they realised that the TV model was a good way of maximising their revenue 🙄

Oh, and now with Ads!

[meager parrot]

T300 is awesome. Thats the one I've used since right before covid when I lucked out on a $250 deal for the T300RS and 3-pedal setup for $250 on a black friday deal. prices have gotten pretty crazy since then, probably some great entry level direct drive wheels for nearly the same price as the T300 now.

The built-in commands for changing things like the steering radius are very handy for MiSTer/retro game use

[mortal oracle]

More specifically it’s the T300 RS GT that I wanted to get. Glad to know it’s good though. Saw that you can get a cheap Moza direct drive for similar prices, but sadly they don’t support PS4/5, which is the main reason I’d get one (GT7)

[final salmon]

One of the other odd differences I found was the SNAC rumble, specifically the SNAC without voltage correction. Highly likely no issue per say with the core (someone with voltage corrected SNAC could verify), but the rumble in the Metal Gear opening with the helicopter wasn't just weaker without the better SNAC, which I expected. But also rumbled far less frequently
#1046940919607345272 message

[silent bridge]

So I suppose in the future when FPGAs that have more internal RAM, some cores could be further improved for some games. This is very interesting. Thanks 😄

[final salmon]

Wonder are you able)or has anyone else?) done MDFourier analysis of the PSX core? Perhaps that would help?

It may even be the core is correct, but not what you expect depending on how you experienced PSX.
For example, I found the SMS core, likely correct, is quite different from my experience of a SMS model 2 with RF output and need to put on a audio filter to get as close as I can to my own console

[serene nebula]

Yeah, audio analysis through MD Fourier is the only way to be sure. Most comparisons are either “that’s not how I remember it”, which isn’t helpful (no offense), or it’s m comparing a PS1 via CRT to the MiSTer on an HDTV. Which also isn’t helpful since it difference audio connections, different audio outputs, with different speakers.

I guess a MiSTer using the same video connection quality with a PS1 on the same CRT would be the most accurate comparison you can do outside of MD Fourier, that’s probably a good test case.

[mortal oracle]

I do recall reading something on here before about sound effects in a final fantasy game

[tropic stratus]

i remember a bug in FF9 where the sound effect was loaded wrong, so it was corrupt in a whole area within a savestate, but it was not reproducible later on. Just like the strange FF8 bug where the dress of quistis had exploding polygons that was never reproducible. I really love those once-in-a-decade bugs 😅

[stable perch]

Sound like uninitialized data - this can also happen on real consoles

One of my favourites was "Order of the Griffin" for TurboGrafx. The password entry screen referenced an uninitialized palette entry. On a real machine, the startup state for this was usually blue or green (and not consistent), but on emulators, FPGA systems, and even Everdrive cards, this entry was initialized to zero, so half of the letters were no longer visible.
Emulators generally malloc() data, and in most cases these are set to 0 from initialization.
FPGA systems also set their memory to zero as part of bootup
The Everdrive had a startup menu program, which initialized memory as well.
The initial solution on Mednafen was to try to simulate the random SRAM startup pattern into the palette memory (but others were satisfied by setting the one reference palette entry to white).

[tawny palm]

Exploding polygon bugs are always so interesting and funny at the same time. I remember when Daytona USA had exploding polygons on earlier builds of the Saturn core, but only in the intro!

[mortal oracle]

Yeah, it’s probably nothing. Cosmic ray going through memory? 😅

[spring elk]

Yeah, that's definitely it... probably. 😉

[slate stratus]

Posted a message #help message about not being able to see the PSX core menu when connecting my MiSTer via direct video. The games display normally if I'm able to open one up while using a different display output device. Any ideas?

[somber steppe]

Are you using the direct video with a scaler or a crt? I use it with a rt4k and it works just fine.

[slate stratus]

I'm using it with a rt4k, but it's going through an hdmi matrix first. the matrix is pretty necessary for my setup.

[somber steppe]

Try it without the matrix then. If the problem doesn't persist it's the matrix.

[scenic reef]

Or disable the core pause when menu is open.

[slate stratus]

i guess i can try it. problem is i need the matrix. i'm just curious why this would happen with certain cores only like snes and psx, but all the others (that i tried so far) seem to work fine.

[scenic reef]

Does the GBA core do the same thing if you have the core pause when menu is open option enabled in that core?

SNES does it too?

That's interesting, the menu being brought up shouldn't change anything in that core.

[slate stratus]

GBA seems to work fine. I haven't done anything with core pause in the 'trouble' cores... i didn't even know about the option.

[scenic reef]

Yeah, any core with save states or arcade cores with hiscore saving has it.

With the psx core it's enabled by default because of the slight chance of instability with it disabled because opening the menu can interrupt DDR3 stuff.

[patent junco]

The same thing can happen when you take save state anyway right?

[scenic reef]

Yeah

I agree with ruling out the HDMI matrix as a test because sending direct video through an HDMI matrix seems like it would risk causing incompatibility

Those things, especially since pretty much all of them do active circuitry nowadays, can potentially mess with the signal at the margins.

[slate stratus]

if it's the matrix (very possible), i really need a matrix for my setup 😭

i'm using an ezcoo 4x2 matrix (not the newest version, the previous one)

[scenic reef]

yeah, don't panic yet, it's just a troubleshooting step to rule out a possible contributing factor

if it does reveal that the hdmi matrix may be part of the problem, you can adjust the settings on the matrix's switches for control, like switching it to COPY mode on the switch for EDID and set tit to strip the CEC from HDMI signal and test again after power cycling with these settings

[slate stratus]

Thanks for the info. I check in the morning when I wake up. Keeping my fingers crossed 🤞🏻

[meager parrot]

@manic citrus any possibility of getting support for thrustmaster wheel force feedback with the negcon mode?

[bright yacht]

How is the support for TM wheels on mister?
Auto center works? It's just missing rumble?

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/blob/master/input.cpp#L4549

[dusky marten]

// Thrustmaster Guillemot Wheels

[meager parrot]

yeah auto-center works fine. I turn down the wheel radius to 180 degree with hardware buttons on my T300RS for retro games and it works well. 270 degree for things like gran turismo though. auto-center is always engaged on the wheel when i'm using it on MiSTer

[bright yacht]

And rumble does not work?

[meager parrot]

pedals have the axis reversed in most games though, is the main issue. holds the brake down when pedal released. hard to rebind them for the opposite but ive gotten it to work with a lot of trial and error and just saved the configs and shared them for individual games/systems in this thread on the forums: https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?t=5982

[meager parrot]

no

[bright yacht]

Ok

I'm not sure what is the driver used for TM wheels. Zero experience with then

The logitech driver supports rumble but it was broken on mister (due to 32 vs 64 bits kernel). Zakk fixed this.

Does it work on the psx core in wheel-negcon mode?

Looks like mister only supports the super old iForce TM wheels
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Linux-Kernel_MiSTer/blob/43c52e9ef90ff4109dd0911a3177139c1593711a/drivers/input/joystick/iforce/iforce-main.c#L59

[dusky marten]

{ 0x06f8, 0x0004, "Guillemot Force Feedback Racing Wheel",	btn_wheel, abs_wheel, ff_iforce }, //?

[meager parrot]

yep!

dont know anything about older thrustmaster wheels, but the t300 is the most popular modern one thats still being sold

i think theres an xbox version called "tx" also

[bright yacht]

{0x0306, 0x0006, "Thrustmaster T150RS"},
{0x0206, 0x0005, "Thrustmaster T300RS"},
{0x0204, 0x0005, "Thrustmaster T300 Ferrari Alcantara Edition"},
{0x0002, 0x0002, "Thrustmaster T500RS"}

Found this list on mister kernel

None are handled as a wheel in mister. And I believe that's why the pedal values are inverted

[meager parrot]

I took some measurements for the axis values a while back when someone asked me to. Dont think anything came of it because of his affiliation with some anti-mister folks

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/issues/681

[bright yacht]

Fix is behind a paywall? Damn!

Main problem is that mister does not see the device as a racing wheel.

[meager parrot]

yeah aint that fun

lovely way to advertise your patreon

[bright yacht]

I would try to implement support for it... But I don't have this wheel and I don't know anyone near me with one to borrow. :/

[stiff wind]

has anyone else been having issues with lack of RNG where there should be

Like for example, Wheel of Fortune 2nd Edition is using the same puzzles in the same order from boot. “Night Watchman” is always first. And in SmackDown 2, the loading screens go in the same order each time. Starting with Kurt Angle.

[patent junco]

is it possible that the games are seeding their PRNG from the system clock? Do you have a network connection or RTC module in your MiSTer and is the time set?

(I'm assuming bios clock works for the PSX core, I haven't actually checked...)
ignore me, I am a silly person

[forest trench]

The PS1 has no BIOS clock

[patent junco]

Outed, I only ever played PS1 games on PS2

[serene nebula]

I mean, that’s an awesome way of playing ps1 games too

[oblique frost]

but you didn't get the best bios boot screen that way

[silent bridge]

That is a hard one to call… PS1 vs PS2 booty screen.
A close call but, the bass in the PS1 does it for me.

[oblique frost]

both screens are nice in their own way, and also both come with that terror point where you don't know if the disc will read or not

[silent bridge]

Oh dude… I know. I know. 😭

Worst on PS2 with CD games.

I mean, PS2’s CD games, never had DVD game read issues.

Nor PS1 games on PS2 oddly enough.

[little frost]

interesting. I’ll try to test this next chance I get to see if it’s the same for me…probably can’t until late tomorrow or Saturday, though

[patent junco]

I am very much enjoying it playing on the core 😄

[silent bridge]

Same here. The PS Classic wasn’t a waste of $20 as I got 2 official controllers to use with the core 😎

[little frost]

I remember being so ticked when I paid $100 for the PS Classic at launch and literally two weeks later Best Buy marked them down to $40. I complained to their customer service online and they refunded me $40 which still meant I paid $60, but it was better than nothing 😅

I did pick up a second one later on clearance for I think $10-15, but I ended up giving it to my buddy

[tawny palm]

lol, that's rough. I do remember that thing dropping in price insanely quickly. Never ended up picking one up myself, but I was tempted when I saw it for $20.

[silent bridge]

Yeah that would not have made me a pleased gamer. I believe the only reason I didn’t get it right away was that the reservation allocations were gone and I was just like, fuck it then. That and the game lineup didn’t tickle my fancy like the SNES mini did so yeah. It currently sits as a display item.

[mortal oracle]

The PS Classic was such a letdown. That was the mini console I was most excited for, but the lineup wasn’t the best

And the emulation wasn’t good

And a random mix of NTSC and PAL games 🤦🏻‍♂️

[silent bridge]

Not at all. And PAL games randomly put on an NTSC machine is insult to injury.

[mortal oracle]

Yep

[silent bridge]

Hehe same time typing thoughts

[mortal oracle]

But the controllers are pretty sweet, aside from the lack of analogue sticks

[silent bridge]

Still say what I paid for 2 new original USB controllers was worth it. And that I have a nicely made PS1 shell for display

[mortal oracle]

I didn’t have DualShock/analogue at the time, but in later years I played some of the games that were compatible with one and it makes such a difference

I can’t be tethered to my MiSTer with cables. Wireless is just too nice to pass up 😄

[silent bridge]

I agree but I’m very picky about wireless. The new NeoGeo 8bitdo ones might be the only ones I’m truly satisfied with, zero complaints.

[somber steppe]

So ps classic vs mister... which one is actually better?

[mortal oracle]

It’s not even a competition

Out of the box:
Number of games: 20 vs 0
Controllers included: 2 vs 0

So you pay $100 for 20 games with the PS Classic, or $600 for 0 games with the MiSTer.

And there’s nowhere to even plug in your carts or CDs. I’ve just been staring at static for the past year

[somber steppe]

Yeah, also you have the advantage of modern software emulation. Software is computer stuff, modern and advanced. Hardware has been around for THOUSANDS of years and was used even by Neanderthals. Dunno why mister was ever popular.

[mortal oracle]

RockStation 3000BC

[somber steppe]

I should do one of those genetests to see how much of a Neanderthal I am. I'm European so I bet it's a lot.

[mortal oracle]

Isn’t there a guy on YouTube called Stone Age Gamer or something 😄

[somber steppe]

I think that's a shop

[mortal oracle]

Ah, my bad

[serene nebula]

Yeah! Your bad!!!!

[somber steppe]

It's not your bad. This is just Robbys way to get attention and affection.

[serene nebula]

I feel exposed

[somber steppe]

YOUR BAD ROBBY!!!!

[mortal oracle]

Whose bad?

[wild sinew]

They probably had PAL games either 1) because they looked at tbe release date and saw that PAL was newest or 2) because PAL games contain more languages in them.

[mortal oracle]

Wouldn’t that make an argument for more PAL games though?

I’ll admit I haven’t looked in detail - maybe there’s some actual logic behind the choices

[tawny palm]

Don't expose yourself!

[desert otter]

https://youtu.be/sa0CQnlLgSs?si=i2hLeQitgFh3GcDI

[twin walrus]

Gamera 2000

[serene nebula]

game rocks, I own it

the random white dude they got off the street is amazing

[twin walrus]

I'm loving the soundtrack

[twin walrus]

he was holding up a "Will Act For Free" sign outside of the studio.

[twin walrus]

Goiken Muyou II is simple and fun.

[lapis tide]

Hello. What is the state today of dual-ram vs single ram core? Is there difference between them?

[ivory verge]

#1046940919607345272 message

no differences that you can hear or see

dualsdram versions were test versions only

[serene nebula]

Yeah, dual ram builds are for some audio delay improvement that that’s literally imperceptible to the human ear. More of a proof of concept than anything.

Nothing needs dual ram and likely nothing ever will for the MiSTer.

I know the Jaguar core but it’s not done.

[stable perch]

Except during development if the code is shared for testing purposes

[bitter lintel]

i can hear the difference

i'd definitely go out and buy more ram if i were you

[dawn wind]

Speaking of racing wheels I have some wireless force feedback ps3 Logitech thing I should try

[hollow cypress]

maybe your ear

[serene nebula]

Maybe YOUR ear gottem

[hollow cypress]

I have bofa ears

[wise skiff]

So far I find the PSX core to be perfect. Are there any known issues?

[ivory verge]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PSX_MiSTer/issues

[wise skiff]

A small list it seems but some game stopping issues.

[serene nebula]

What’s bofa

[hollow cypress]

BOFA LIGMA

https://tenor.com/view/goteem-go-team-happy-fun-sports-gif-4789485

[serene nebula]

🤣🤣

[twin walrus]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-sad-monkey-sad-monkey-meme-gif-17038822304906738082

[waxen elk]

Trying out the pwm build finally. Do I need to toggle render 24 bit for mode 24 to display properly? I'm going for accuracy of the original system above all else

[abstract drift]

no, that forces the psx to render 24bit all the time

it's normally only used for menu screens and (some) fmv's

[waxen elk]

Ah okay, maybe adding "force" to the menu item might be a good idea then

I figure it was force, but wanted to double check

[bright yacht]

I believe all ps2/ps3 logitech ffb wheels works. I want to add support for the wii wireless one but too lazy to configure the build environment again.

[waxen elk]

Finally manually replaced the music autoboot demo with the quieter metal gear inspired one. Not sure why update all updated it in the sd card but not usb0. Ah well

[tulip moat]

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2024/07/the-worst-playstation-rpg-ever-is-getting-a-fan-translation

Any kusoge fans?

[runic edge]

I mean, I see "new fan translation", I get excited, I see "Worst RPG ever" I get unexcited. Then I see "new fan translation" again, excited, "Worst RPG", unexcited and so forth.

[desert otter]

what if saying it's the worst doesn't apply to you though? just because some people collectively thing it's bad doesn't mean it's bad for everyone that plays it.
As an example, people who are diehard Castlevania fans will shit on the N64 games all day everyday calling them the worst and terrible but that's only coming from a very narrow tunnel vision mindset and bias for what they like and don't like and what they "think" constitutes a good or bad "Castlevania" game.

But I personally enjoy the N64 games a lot and think they were fairly well done for the time they were made in and with the limited time and resources they had also it being the devs first time making a 3D game.

So I would personally ignore the title of "worst playstation rpg ever" and maybe even give it a try if you've never played it because you could end up liking it while everyone else hates it.

[runic edge]

You're totally right of course

One of my favourite games at the moment is Minnesota fats pool legend

[tulip moat]

No, Ancient Roman is genuinely a terrible RPG. There are so many problems with it that it gained a reputation as so bad it's good in Japan.

[runic edge]

But I must try it for myself

And then if it does suck

Return to shake my fist at pengwen

[somber steppe]

HE IS BEAUTIFUL

[desert otter]

I just want to know where that memory card goes, unless it's an actual memory card at which point it obvioiusly goes with your real PS1

nope. looking at a video of this thing the scale is waaaay too small to be a real memory card. so now my first question stands.... where does the memory card go.

I would think it goes in one of the legs just like the controller but... I don't see it being used

found two listings for it on Mercari
Listing one:
https://jp.mercari.com/en/item/m89269760310

Listing two:
https://jp.mercari.com/en/item/m90999958617

and this is a video of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2MsFqfoNoU

[somber steppe]

@humble thorn mister transformer when?

[humble thorn]

Haha

[grand sage]

Hey, I'm having a weird issue with SD2PSX and Memcardpro2 on the PSX core. I'm struggling to pinpoint where the potential issue can be coming from. My setup is MisterAddons most recent Digital IO MISTer, Snax64, and a OEM PS1 multitap. The issue I'm having is that when inserting either the SD2PSX or MCP2, I'll notice the controller disconnects and reconnects itself.

If you're playing a game with analog support, the light would shut off and it would briefly say the controller was disconnected and then it'll reconnect.

Specifically for the SD2PSX, it'll crash when changing pages on the card, something that doesn't happen on ps2 or a phat ps1. Was able to trigger it on a psone but Inconsistently. Do you think it's a power related issue? My Mister is powered via it's regular power supply that's included with it. Been thinking about upgrading to the 5v 4a power supply in hopes it fixes this issue. The only things connected other than the Snax64 itself is a 2.4ghz usb dongle for a keyboard and a 128gb flash drive

[serene nebula]

Yeah sounds like power.

You should upgrade your power supply regardless, not just to investigate fixing this issue.

[grand sage]

Yeah, that's what I've come to suspect aswell 😅

[serene nebula]

The one that comes by default handles basic use just fine but upgrading your power supply is relatively inexpensive and ensures that power related issues aren’t a factor.

[grand sage]

https://www.amazon.com/MEAN-WELL-GST25A05-P1J-Desktop-Adaptor/dp/B01D0Z8PLW/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8

Is this one good? Was reccomended to me by a friend

[serene nebula]

Yeah it’s fantastic. Overkill really though but the price is good so why not.

[grand sage]

Awesome! I have a $15 gift card from awhile back so it's basically free lol. Was looking through my wire bin to see if I had any 5v power supplies that would've worked but I didn't unfortunately

[desert otter]

It's really odd to me that the only cheap ones you can get are all European style plugs on ali

Once you get any that have NTSC/American plugs they jump to $13

[deft sphinx]

I wouldn't advise buying a PSU on AliExpress, unless it is a really reputable seller, you don't want to be cheaping out when it comes to dealing with electricity from the mains

[weak widget]

I think in some cases. yes they are notably different:
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PSX_MiSTer/issues/270

[weak widget]

No haven't, wasn't even aware of that analysis method. I'm also interested in this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/jn5wym/mednafen_duckstation_vs_real_system_final_fantasy/

[final salmon]

I did check the latest 240p for playstation and from what I can tell it has audio tests, but does not have MDFourier built in.
Checking old posts, I guess what could be done, or perhaps already was, is the general equipment test using PSX as a CD player effectively.
I'm not entirely sure that test is quite as in depth, but might still reveal something

@scenic reef Looking at MDFourier, did you ever get to run PSX core with the equipment test? I couldn't tell if that was something theorised, or if you or someone had made some measurements?
Sorry if I've got the wrong person

[scenic reef]

i was thinking about running it a long time ago but ended up not doing it and forgot about it

you could run it, it's just a cd image version of it like an audio cd

[silent bridge]

I think the MGS ones are quite different while the FFVII ones are marginally so. I'd sure like the MGS ones to mimic real hardware somehow.

[final salmon]

Got it. I guess you'd need to convert the flac file to a format of CD the PSX core would take. Perhaps that's already been done, I couldn't find one yet. Been a while since I tried to virtually burn a CD

[serene nebula]

Are the Discworld games good?

[pearl shell]

They are hard but yeah they are good Robby

[zinc rose]

Heya guys

I am not able to use analog stick

USING Ps2 controller

I tried defining but Up and Down don’t recognise

But controller is alright on PS2 games with analog

[serene nebula]

You need to finish the entire input config in the main menu. Skip bindings that you don’t want, but don’t exit it.

[zinc rose]

I tried it but in input config Up and Down doesn’t recognise

What could be issue

[serene nebula]

Delete your input configs and try again, those are located in //media/fat/config/input/

[zinc rose]

Ohh ok

I tried

Still having same issue

[serene nebula]

That’s the directional pad

Thank you for the video

That helped identify the issue

When it tells you to map up/down/left/right that’s specifically for the directional pad

[zinc rose]

Oh ok

[serene nebula]

There are options for analog sticks

It’s after the dpad input bindings

[zinc rose]

Where is the open?

Option

Not able to see

Is it pad 1

[serene nebula]

When you do the bindings in the main menu it will ask you to bind every input.

Go through it all

Up/down/left/right is just for the dpad

If you want I can hop in the voice chat channel and walk you through it

[zinc rose]

Ok sure

[serene nebula]

Alright one second

[serene nebula]

@zinc rose reach out if you have any other issues. Enjoy the MiSTer! 🥳

[spring elk]

We're talking about the primary MiSTer input config screen before the PlayStation core is launched.

That is where the analog stick mapping options are found.

[runic edge]

I'm coming in here to say that Micro Machines V3 is really good and the menus are just lovely. Thank you that is all.

[serene nebula]

Yeah it’s a great game

[runic edge]

https://tenor.com/view/nods-spock-kirk-mc-coy-star-trek-gif-14744088

[desert otter]

No. Micro machines is weird. It has what is clearly a yellow mustard bottle on the map but it says "syrup" with each letter being a different color like it's some birthday cake sprinkle party. So no.

[runic edge]

Your disagreeable comment was so shocking to me that it sent me spiralling out into the furthest reaches of the Internet.

But while I was out there I made an incredible discovery

Fake spill bottles!!

I gotta get myself some of these!

[desert otter]

Lol

Bruh

Mustard.... Bottle

I am justified in my complaints

[still lichen]

Occasionally the psx core will freeze for 3-5 seconds, is that expected or is there a way to prevent it?

[serene nebula]

Not expected and very abnormal. How are are you accessing your disc images?

[still lichen]

Over CIFS on a NAS via Ethernet

[serene nebula]

Do you have room on your micro sd card to place a PS1 game to try loading that?

Also is this on every game or just some?

And lastly, have you tried with default core settings (I.e. deleting your psx config)?

[still lichen]

Haven't tested it but i def have room since all my games are on the NAS

[still lichen]

I havent seen it on every game but ive seen it on more than one, im playing Chrono Cross rn but i also had it happen on Threads of Fate and Legend of Mana

[still lichen]

Havent tried that either

It happens very infrequently though, so itd be hard to test and confirm. Like every third or fourth play session itll happen once

My gut says its CIFS-related on the NAS side and not a MiSTer problem but im unsure

[serene nebula]

Sounds like a data transfer issue.

[still lichen]

Yeah, and i think its happening on things that would be bigger reads, like transitions into a battle or cutscenes

Not a huge issue by any means, just an infrequent annoyance. Ill see if i can check logs on the NAS for some kind of event thatd show it

Whatre the odds that var/log/messages or dmesg logs on the mister would show something?

[serene nebula]

I have no idea, sorry

[still lichen]

No worries, cant hurt to look

[dusky ore]

I missed some Micro Machines talk

There was a Fox Kids game, Micro Maniacs, that a bunch of friends and I discovered when using a random game script on the MiSTer. It's a spin-off of the Micro Machines game, surprisingly fun with a bunch of people

[still lichen]

nothing telling on the NAS side, but there are a TON of failed instances of trying to send email for some reason. could be bogging things down at the very least

[still lichen]

didn't get much out of the MiSTer side either, weirdly everything between Jan 1 and today was gone in /var/log/messages, and i couldn't find dmesg or syslog

[waxen elk]

Micro maniacs is surprisingly gory for a kids game. Bits of nudity too in some of the cutscenes

[bitter lintel]

i'll have a look

for research

[desert otter]

@still lichen are your games also in compressed formats?

[still lichen]

they're .chds, yeah

[desert otter]

It could be the combination of network and compressed format. Maybe you just have to go with bin+cue if doing network storage.
There's already some processing overhead simply cuz you're using network transfer and to ask the CPU to also uncompress and read the chd might be too much at certain times

You can also go about it in the way of any games you experience this issue with, switch it out with bin+cue to see if it stops then just do that for only the games that have issues.

This is assuming that the combination of network and chd is the issue though

That way you can still try to save storage space with your other games

[still lichen]

yeah that sounds likely

honestly it happens so infrequently i probably wont bother, but i think your theory is right

and it'd be a pain to un-chd everything

[serene nebula]

You run the core at 1x disc speed, right?

[still lichen]

is that default? if so, yes

[marsh star]

Anyone know how I switch to disc 2 of parasite eve?

Oh nvm I see it now. Guess I gotta put the files in the same folder

[meager parrot]

what ps1 light gun games support two-player? does SNAX allow two guns at once also?

[tawny palm]

I know all the Point Blank games support two players. I did it with guncon 3s though, so I can't speak to SNAX.

[meager parrot]

just checked the product page and it says 2x supported. shoulda looked there first lol

[lilac scaffold]

elemental gearbolt, extreme ghostbusters, ghoul panic, lethal enforcers, point blank series, project horned owl, rescue shot, i think maybe one of the 'simple 1500' games too

maximum force, mighty hits special

[somber steppe]

What does #unstable-nightlies message do?

[meager parrot]

thanks! looks like a good number of em. thats great

[lilac scaffold]

np, psx is awesome for lightgun games 🙂
there's guncon patches for most of the justifier games

[abstract drift]

shouldn't it be set to default not 1x? a real psx drive switches between 1 and 2x

i'm not actually sure how it's labelled in the osd come to think of it

[abstract drift]

yeah i'm not sure what sorgs up to

something to do with the black frame insertion that happens during resolution switches to hide garbage frames i think?

or maybe he just renamed that actually

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PSX_MiSTer/commit/8badbab7105a6c30dcbbd53681b0820822716c77

there's something new for interlacing too i think?

[feral swift]

I can't seem to be loading any games, just a black screen. Update all didn't download any bios files so I downloaded and renamed them manually, but not sure I did it correctly.

[lilac scaffold]

try deleting the bios files, then run update_all again, press up after it opens and enable the bios database option

[feral swift]

I tried pressing up a thousand times as I started update_all and nothing happened. I'm on a CRT so I don't know if that makes any difference, can't even see half of the update_all text on the screen.

[lilac scaffold]

best to run it over HDMI, or can SSH in and run it that way

[feral swift]

Got it, I don't have an lcd screen available that isn't built into a laptop so I'll have to figure out SSH.

[full nimbus]

if you are seeing the script text inside the core box then you have the options set up incorrectly for your CRT

believe its FB_terminal =1

[lilac scaffold]

You can manually enable the bios db by editing downloader.ini
https://github.com/BigDendy/BiosDB_MiSTer

[full nimbus]

from the message board someone suggested

[Menu]
direct_video=0
vga_scaler=1
vsync_adjust=1
vscale_mode=1
video_mode=640,47,56,113,224,16,0,28,13764 ; Best 7-30-2021 - No Shimmering, No Border

[feral swift]

Yes, that's what has happened, I'll mess around with it some more, thanks.

[lilac scaffold]

It's either shown within the menu and can't be interacted when using fb_terminal 0 or use scaler for menu and try and make out the txt I think

[full nimbus]

its to do with the fb_terminal setting

easier just to do it via SSH

[full nimbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq_ALZh86js

[serene nebula]

For CRT?

[full nimbus]

think so Although I am not a CRT guy

you have to set fb_terminal though or the output is trapped to that tiny little core box

[lilac scaffold]

fb_terminal=1 and vga_scaler=0 will give no script output and a message to change ini
fb_terminal=0 and vga_scaler=0 will give script output in small menu box and you can't interact with it
fb_terminal=1 and vga_scaler=1 will give you full screen script output that you can interact with to enter settings, but it's not pretty

[full nimbus]

there you go

you can ser it though just for the [Menu] core

just add a [Menu] section at the end of the ini

[tranquil arch]

Whats the file format the roms should be in for PSX?

Ive copied 7-8 games to see if theyre working and so far ive only got 1 to load.

I seem to have a lot of ".img" and ".img.ecm" files when everything I'm seeing online so far says ".bin" and ".cue" although 2-3 of the games ARE ".bin" and ".cue", but not loading up..

[serene nebula]

Bin/cue or CHD

if the game isn’t loading up check to see if you have the right bios in the right folder

Then check your cue to see if it’s pointing to the right bin

Cue files can be opened in a text editor

[tranquil arch]

Awesome.. ok so editing the .cue file fixed a couple of them. Some of them dont seem to have a .cue file.. can I just copy/paste and fix one for those?

[serene nebula]

No, regrab those games

Cue files include track info which is very specific to the bin

[still lichen]

Is this glitching normal for Chrono Cross? Only happens on this particular menu

[feral swift]

for some reason vga_scaler=1 completely messes up the signal for my crt. I'll have to try ssh instead.

[manic citrus]

vga_scaler=1 requires a proper modeline/videomode so you are sending the correct resolution. if you're doing it just for the menu core you can put it in that section. otherwise it is using whatever your default video_mode is

[lilac scaffold]

[menu]
vga_scaler=1
fb_terminal=1
video_mode=320,240,60

im not certain for a 15khz crt, could try that

best to grab putty and ssh in tho yeah, scripts on 15khz crt look pretty meh

if ya need a hand sshing in feel free to send me a DM, or @ me in #help

[desert otter]

@feral swift what brand CRT is this

Phillips is notorious for not playing nice with analog output from MiSTer, especially with the previous boards that use VGA output

[meager parrot]

Known issue and limitation of the PS1 core. Does not happen all the time but can come up in battle in some situations

IIRC maybe the turbo core helps with this? can't remember

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PSX_MiSTer/issues/244

[still lichen]

Yeah, i noticed afterwards it was very situational, it only happened in certain parts of the one area i was in (Hydra Marshes)

[still lichen]

Worth a try

[meager parrot]

From the Github report linked above:
Known workarounds: Turn on 24-bit Rendering or Texture Filter, which will result in slowing down the GPU and clearing noise.

[still lichen]

I noticed that, but I'm not sure i wanna slow down the GPU in a game that already has pretty bad perf

[tropic stratus]

i wouldn't worry about slowing down the GPU, as basically all PSX games are slow due to the CPU and not the GPU. The GPU in the core is faster on average than the real GPU, because it has to handle random DDR3 delay and high memory read latency. But yes, this bug is known and i cannot do much about it. We would need a board with different memory to fully replicate the GPU behavior. However, as most games are bound by CPU performance only, this doesn't come to play in most cases so only few games with issues are known.

[austere otter]

JUst curious, what kind of memory would be optimal in an FPGA board for true N64/PSX speed?

[tropic stratus]

For N64 it needs DDR3/4 with a low latency controller. Basically like the de10-nano without HPS and seperate memory for the scaler. For PSX VRAM it would need 32bit sdram or two 16bit, both additional to the existing. But for psx it will be easier with future FPGAs to just use 1 mbyte of internal memory if they have enough

[silent bridge]

@tropic stratus Earlier I saw someone post this sound effect inaccuracy and wondered if it's possible to remedy, as MGS is a premier PSX game. https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PSX_MiSTer/issues/270

[hard laurel]

Hang on a moment, doesn't a SCPH-79000 PS2 use Emulation to play PS1 games? So basically its 2 emulators that are being compared to Robert's PSX Core?

Someone needs to test this with a PS1 Console itself.

I mean I could test it but need to know what I am listening out for.

[final salmon]

One way that I've not yet done (and also I only have a PS2 which as you correctly say is limiting)... Would be rip a CD with MDFourier equipment test file, and capture audio recordings of both the PS1 and the core playing the track

[hard laurel]

That would be 1 way. I would be able to pick out Reverb as its a sound effect I am familiar with.

[desert otter]

I thought all PS2s used what is essentially a single SoC that was pretty much the entirety of a PS1 minus a couple bits and bobs that could be handled by PS2 hardware

So essentially it's like 99% PSX hardware

I believe the PS3 is pure emulation

[still lichen]

Good to know, thanks 👍 Mainly i wanted to know whether it was a MiSTer-specific thing or if it was also present on original hardware, so that answers it.

[hard laurel]

I am pretty sure in later model PS2's, they changed the chip that was effectively the PS1 Processor to something different which affected compatibility with some games (which is well known)?

[somber steppe]

Yeah I tried popstarter on ps2 to play ps1 games from a hard drive and they ran like ass since they can't access the ps1 hardware without going through the disc drive.

[ivory verge]

"The later slim models (SCPH-750xx and later) are worse because they remove the PS1's processor (cleverly used in the original PS2 design as the PS2's input/output processor) and replace it with a PowerPC-based chip that emulates the PS1, with the original emulation software shipped in the SCPH-750xx model having overall the worst compatibility."

https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps2/IOP/Deckard

[willow sundial]

I believe it was just the cpu. The gpu was fully emulated in all models. That’s why you had a “smooth” option in the settings

[dawn wind]

Huh. Do enemy bullets act weird for anyone else in R-Type II in R-Types?

Like they move jerky.

NVM figured it out. Widescreen hack was set to 5:3 which is odd because I never even use that.

Also, if the bydo empire ever invaded I’m pretty sure we’d be fucked.

Wonder how long that was on and wonder how that was the first thing it made act weird that I noticed.

[cosmic tulip]

I have no idea if this is useful to you @tropic stratus but Duckstation recently updated its mdec and seems to have fixed the miscolored block issue

here is the issue about a year ago

[tropic stratus]

recently means this commit? https://github.com/stenzek/duckstation/commit/6d6659c85ea83b33b21d573083f6872fa61b0896

so 1 week ago or is is longer already?

i can't see what all changes are. It seems all 3 stages are "new", but the comment only references the bitwidth change in the IDCT stage, which is already even wider in the core, so it cannot be the reason from what i see, but i can't tell what the changes to the other stages are so easily as the functions are new. Would need to compare them step by step...

[cosmic tulip]

I think so.

[cosmic tulip]

It was in the update notes when I updated today

[tropic stratus]

thank you, i will add a comment to the github issue, pointing to a possible solution

[abstract drift]

nice, i'd love to see that bug fixed, its fairly minor in RE but someone posted some shots of fear effect where it was much more stark iirc

[tropic stratus]

it's not like this would be an easy fix however. First, it's unclear what all the changes in the commit really are and also the core doesn't use the duckstation logic directly, but rather has it's own processing scheme, so this cannot be compared either. In worst case, the RE decoding has to be run through duckstation and exported, then compared to the core, which already has an export for simulation

to be honest, i'm currently not motivated to sink 20-40 hours into this given how minor the effects are.

[spring elk]

Completely understandable.

[hard laurel]

Ok can confirm the MGS Sound issue is definitely a thing with the Core and that it differs from Real Hardware.

After the Codec Beep plays, you hear a weird after sound on the Core which you don't hear on Real Hardware. Tested with my Trusty SCPH-1000

Left Video is the Core. Right is my SCPH-1000

[final salmon]

Nice to see the side by side. I had noted before (apologies if it was to you already), but would be nice to see the MDFourier comparison
https://junkerhq.net/MDFourier/#downloads
I don't really know if that result would directly help sort the issue though, but I believe it does

[tropic stratus]

psx audio can be recorded back to audio ram and read back from the CPU, so all SPU functionality can be checked with tests automatically in digital form. It's just that there are no such tests currently

(as far as i know)

[feral swift]

It sounds like the difference is in the reverb. It's possible that it could sound correct with an accurate audio filter.

[feral swift]

Can you explain this? I can not see any differences anywhere. Just cruious about it.

[cosmic tulip]

@xboxown you go to this location in re2 in mister and the bg is lighter in the middle of the screen

[rancid anchor]

are you in the same room/area for both videos?

it would be a very kojima thing to have the codec sound be different depending on surfaces of the room you are currently in

[hard laurel]

Yes I took the recording from the same place on both.

[weak widget]

Nice you made a comparison. Although the problem is much clearer when you scan through frequencies.

[fluid condor]

It's an once you see, you can't unsee kind of thing heh ...

[feral swift]

Are these actual comparison images? I'm looking at a somewhat color calibrated monitor and I see no differences between these images.

[fluid condor]

#1046940919607345272 message

Checkout chats about it from there.

This bug is also in RE1.

[abstract drift]

someone had to draw a red square round it before i could even see it

if you've got scanlines/masks on you're very unlikely to notice

[serene nebula]

Probably why I never noticed it, I run the PSX core looking like it’s on a CRT

[mortal oracle]

I use the Robby filters 😎

[tawny palm]

I see the world through Robby filters.

[desert otter]

I can hear it in both videos.

it's just more muffled/subdued on real hardware rather than being as crisp as the core. but it's there. it's this high pitch frequency that plays for a half second at the end

as mentioned, you just need to add a filter to the core's audio to make it more subdued sounding as if you encoded the audio at like 128kbps MP3

[mortal oracle]

Would one of the existing filters for arcade cores potentially help? If I recall correctly, some of the arcade games have quite a “metallic” sounding quality because they were generally muffled by wooden cabinets. Maybe applying some of that “muffling” could help a little here too. (Help, but won’t fix the problem)

[meager parrot]

I bet everything looks AWESOME

[tawny palm]

Not just awesome. Both hip and cool as well.

[fluid condor]

I can see it on my composite crt so yall kids better not go looking cuz once you see it.... 😩 😩

I'm completely ignoring sound comparisons heh heh

[silent bridge]

I’m much more of a stickler when it comes to sound. I prefer both are properly done but audio issues trouble me more often.

[fluid condor]

Oh for sure. I just don't want to get annoyed by another thing. Better not knowing for my own mental health lol

[serene nebula]

Also you can just not care about it. I mean it’s great that someone can identify the differences and work towards getting it resolved but you can’t let that bother you.

[serene nebula]

We’re pretty fortunate that DuckStation is so amazing and can be used as a good comparison point.

[silent bridge]

Way back in early SNES emulation, Silhouette, ZSNES, SNES9x, SNESgt days, Konami games had lots of reverb sound issues to the point that I'd play them in poorer GPU or CPU emulation as long as the sound was right compared to an actual SNES. But yeah, nowadays I'd say it's easier to feign ignorance or just try to ignore something you know doesn't sound right because it's often not as off as it was in the past.

[serene nebula]

Yeah and to be clear it’s awesome people bring it up and recognize it so we can fix it. But I’m just trying to help people who are bothered by that to try not to place so much importance on it so they can feel better about their own experiences with the core.

[spring elk]

I blame rose-tinted ear muffs.

[grand sage]

@serene nebula I got the new power supply, unfortunately the issue with the memory card causing the controller to reconnect still occurs. Now looking into whether it's the multitap, or the card itself

[fluid condor]

Not like there is some switch in my brain that I could turn on and off. I'm not a robot! My brain's gonna brain lolol

[serene nebula]

Yeah amen brother. I also said all that bullshit for me too. Because I KNOW I’m going to be looking for it.

[frail storm]

Hey Robert, in case it can help, the RetroArch core just incorporated the MDEC fix from DuckStation, so it may be easier to narrow down the needed changes in the MiSTer FPGA core by looking at this commit:
https://github.com/libretro/swanstation/commit/b9bbf8725436f2ef2b8ef2c835d5b0ce3d60158b

[cosmic tulip]

Swanstation is not duckstation

Duckstation has its own github

[serene nebula]

lol “swanstation” ay yai yai

[scenic reef]

Robert is working on a GBA game anyways 😉 no pressure.

Someone else could take a look at this if they want to.

[serene nebula]

@scenic reef what’s a “hard fork”? Their GitHub says it’s a hard fork of duckstation.

[scenic reef]

I suppose it's because they are not forking to contribute back to the upstream, it's more like picking a point and forking from there and not really looking back, making their own changes.

Prusaslicer is a hard fork of an old version of slic3r in this sense.

Now as you can see, they aren't really "not looking back" and are relying almost completely on the original developer and not really contributing anything of their own.

[serene nebula]

Yeah and calling it swanstation lol. It feels petty, maybe I’m wrong.

[scenic reef]

Stenzek archived his repo and stopped working on duck station because of libretros previous actions with other projects and because of this forking and renaming etc ...

[serene nebula]

Daaaaaamn

Sucks to see man

[scenic reef]

So he probably felt it was petty too

They basically tried to strongarm him to add libretro support to his emulator in the upstream and he didn't want to, so they forked it and renamed it.

Libretro does this all the time.

[serene nebula]

I’m announcing my hard fork of Tropical Angel and calling it Caribbean Saint.

[scenic reef]

Thanks bro

Gyurco will be pleased.

[serene nebula]

My friend Myurko says it’s ok

Just in case that’s somehow an offense word in a foreign language, I’m sorry lol

[tropic stratus]

they just copied the code over, it's the same change

[frail storm]

Ah, ok. Sorry it was of no help.

[frail storm]

Yes, I know that. That's precisely why the backporting could have been interesting: it could have potentially facilitated the identification of the MDEC changes needed.

[hard laurel]

Could well be the difference between Digital (MiSTer over HDMI) versus Analog (PS1 via RGB Scart to OSSC).

[feral swift]

It's possible. I'm currently in the process of developing an audio filter preset for the n64 core, and will do psx next. I also have to get my own psx fixed as it's currently not powering on. We can then check back on the issue then to see if using an accurate filter preset with the psx core will make it sound correctly, or if the issue lies elsewhere.

Actually what you could try is to use the already existing snes core specific audio filter with the psx core, to see if that makes any difference. It's not going to sound identical to a real psx but you should be able to tell if the audio gets improved in this specific case.

[serene nebula]

Damn dude you’re awesome. I’m really looking forward to it!

[somber steppe]

Any chance you can take a look at the gba as well? It's notorious for it's bad audio quality since it has no designated audio afaik.

[fluid condor]

Well, you need to add all the hisses and hums of GBA audio to pass mdf lol

[spring elk]

Garbage out requires garbage in.

[feral swift]

My ultimate goal is to create accurate audio filter presets for all nintendo, sony and sega cores, if possible also including all different console versions if there are differences in the audio path, such as the different genesis versions, psx early vs late models and possibly snes 1 vs 2 chip consoles.

Having accurate audio emulation, such as in the old sega genesis core, is to a large part what drew me into the Mister platform to begin with when I heard of it the first time. Having correct sounding audio playback matters a lot to me, and I don't see anyone else actively working on these, so I'm picking up on this myself.

Right now I only have my old N64 and PS1, everything else I have to purchase over time so that I can analyse the analog audio paths of the remaining systems.

I could definitely create a copy of the HQ audio emulation that the AP uses for their gba core, or at least something very similar.

[feral swift]

The way it appears to me, is that the GBA produces lots of noises and hissing in the upper frequency regions. What analogue did, at least by what I can pick up by ear, was to simply use a more aggressive low pass filtering, which removes most of the hiss without affecting the actual audio content too much. I never had a GBA myself, so that system itself is still somewhat new to me.

[deft sphinx]

One of the main reason MDF is the gold standard reference is because it is ran against many different consoles it makes it possible to build a composite of what original hardware did sound like, and not being skewed by hardware that has had its audio change over time as parts have decayed which is a big problem using a single device as a reference

[feral swift]

I'm in contact with Artemio and I will be checking my results against mdfourier, if available for the system in question. My old childhood N64 still sounds great and I did test it to make sure there is no weirdness caused by any potentially aging or failing parts.

I do have my own methods of measuring audio systems, which I need to do in a specific way using my own audio hardware, not only to ensure that my measurements are accurate but also so that I can match the audio filter preset within Mister as accurately as possible to the target system.

[weak widget]

Wow this is great. Looking forward to the psx filter.

[somber steppe]

You sound like you know about sound stuff which most of us don't. If you could fix up a gba filter it'd be hugely appreciated. If that's not your jam that's also ok. 👍

[stable perch]

Some people will want that horrible buzz though.

Just like some people want the thunk-gr-gronk-gr-gronk-chuck-chuck-chuck-chuck sound of floppy drives when it's not necessary

[serene nebula]

Nostalgia

[somber steppe]

I miss the dial up sound of old internet connections.

[neon oar]

I'm playing the PSX conversion of TGM (tetris the grand master) on the mister psx core. in this game, when you get to level 490, the music cuts out until a new song comes on at level 500. that's normal. what's abnormal is I'm getting a ton of lag/slowdown during this no-music period. I've tried playing with the default core settings and I've tried activating the following core settings:

• Fastboot: On
• Turbo: High
• CD Fast Seek: On
• CD Speed: Hack x4 (also Hack x8)
  and none of these helped the problem. does anyone know a way to fix this or have suggestions for something else to try?

[oblique frost]

my first question would be if the hack/conversation does that on real hardware as well

[neon oar]

I haven't got real hardware to test with

somebody in the comment section mentions people getting to level 999 without any major problems. not sure what platform they were on though. https://www.romhacking.net/reviews/10376/#review

oh that person is in this server. hello @meager parrot , do you know if any of the people you had playing TGM got past level 490 on original PSX hardware and/or on mister?

[tropic stratus]

what you could try: take savestate when it happens just to be sure it's captured and others might can try. Then try to remove the disc completly by pressing backspace in the cd select screen

open CD lid could maybe do the same. This would clarify if it's related to CD commands

[abstract drift]

might be one to ask rama about see if it happens on xstation

[tropic stratus]

that's why i would like to know if it's cd related at all. If removing the CD does not help, it's not

if yes, the game might just be spamming cd commands and gets fast interrupts, making everything else slow

should be fairly easy to see what happens with a savestate

[neon oar]

will do

[serene nebula]

I must be strong and resist ordering anything!

https://limitedrungames.com/collections/tomba-special-edition

[neon oar]

open cd lid prevents the lag and also prevents the new music from beginning at lv 500

here is a savestate a few levels before 490. it reproduces the lag every time when I load it

i can get some interesting behavior by playing around with cd lid. if i start with cd lid open and load the state, there's no lag at all, not after 490 or after 500. if i instead close the cd lid in between, like at 495, then lag begins at 500

[manic citrus]

oh here's a fun one

if I use a CHD image instead of bin/cue there's no lag

[meager parrot]

TGM master coming through! Thanks for confirming. I don't think anyone reported this issue during the challenge I hosted @neon oar

CHD performing better than bin/cue is a real head-scratcher. Support for both of those has been modified since the challenge though, wonder if some bug slipped in?

I'll recheck the #game-challenge channel from when we held the TGM score challenge just to be sure.

[manic citrus]

I tried a year+old version of the core and it still did it. I should try an old main too

hmm, jan 2023 version of main doesn't do it

[meager parrot]

I re-checked and many people got over 500 during the challenge, most of whom seem to have played this before in the arcade version and there's not a single mention of the slowdown. Challenge ended 5-13-23

[manic citrus]

I'll bisect later tonight and see if I can come up with anything

[meager parrot]

If anything I think its pretty rad that the TGM conversion is the one to expose a possible bug that cropped up with image handling, either way 🙂

[meager parrot]

Thanks Zakk

[hazy otter]

You guys are really making me want to play that game. I've never tried it.

[neon oar]

works for me too. i also checked from a fresh start rather than loading the state, also a success. this solves the problem for me personally, so thanks!

[neon oar]

it's a great game. i'm coming to it from NES tetris, and i am enjoying the combination of quick piece movement while still having no hold and a single preview

[meager parrot]

Wow, Gaia Master Kamigami no Board Game looks really neat. Slowly working my way through that Sean Seanson Capcom PSX video and this one stood out. Theres a good english guide for folks to still enjoy it without a translation also: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/577177-gaia-master-kamigami-no-board-game/faqs/11158

[manic citrus]

those pictures you see from like the victorian era of glassy eyed people who have 'gone mad' and live in some sort of asylum?

that's me when looking at mister cdrom code

[still palm]

there might be mercury in that code, be careful

[manic citrus]

a Lovecraftian horror lurks in these cue files

well, Lovecraftian but not-racist horror

[tropic stratus]

thank you so much for looking into it. I would not have expected a change in main can cause it. I would assume it is related to the cd sector information send to the core?

[manic citrus]

I think it was one of the changes I made for single-bin images. which if I recall before I did that that image wouldn't even work properly. so I guess I sorta fixed it!

probably can't rule out that the bin/cue has some sort of error in it either

[manic citrus]

every documentation you find about cue file and PREGAP:

The PREGAP command is used to specify the length of a track pre-gap. The pre-gap data is considered not to be stored in the file specified by the FILE command.

comment in mame source:

            // The data is assumed to be in the bin and not generated separately, so the pregap should
            // only be added to the current track's lba to offset it to index 1.```

[tropic stratus]

so the issue only happens with a multi track single bin image?

[manic citrus]

yeah. I need to look but I think I assumed PREGAP means the data isn't actually in the file, but I think this may be a 'all documentation is actually a lie' situation

[manic citrus]

chd is broken too, just somehow doesn't trigger that slowdown. gonna blame the image at this point

I never noticed, but the observant of you may notice when it boots up the qsound 'jingle' is cut off