#Sony PlayStation

1 messages · Page 4 of 1

eternal vapor
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What about YPbPr?

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That's what I'm using

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Also most games/cores are centered but a few psx ones aren't

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Although i don't seem to notice it come up often

humble thorn
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The core should be properly centered. From there, it’s up to the game.

eternal vapor
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Yeah so that must mean those games would be off center on a real PSX, too

humble thorn
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Yeah likely

ivory verge
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my consoles connected to three different crt tvs give the same thing via rgb

eternal vapor
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But I wondered if the core could have options to correct it nonetheless. I guess the only real scenario where it would be useful is if the game completely lacks screen position options

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Since there isn't really a way to save options like that on a per game basis

ivory verge
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Only some arcade cores as far as I know at the moment have these options

eternal vapor
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Yeah that's what made me wonder about it

ivory verge
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Everything is doable, but I don't know how much resources and time it would take

eternal vapor
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Yeah makes sense

ivory verge
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I bought an rgb positioner

crisp shale
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Nice to see the list I build several years ago being helpful for the discussion here. I don't have any association with that site anymore though.

Regarding the rotation request, I think there are a few things to consider here, especially for people like me who use CRTs 99% of the time for gaming:

  • The options provided by the games/collections aren't enough at times. Most games with TATE support are rotated 90 degrees IIRC, so most people will set up their TATE CRTs that way.

  • Some games, though, have TATE support only at 270 degrees and that's probably why some folks requested such rotating features in other cores: it's impractical to rotate the CRT itself from one game to another.
    Furthermore, it screws up the magnetic balance/adjustment of the CRT more often than not, so you usually want to place it in a certain orientation, fix any potential image issues, and don't move it anymore.

  • PSX can run games at a wide variety of resolutions and, depending on how your monitor/TV process that specific signal for that game, the image can be a bit bigger or a bit off-center or whatever.
    Not all of its supported resolutions use the same PAR either, so there's that too.

With that said, I don't think anyone should feel obligated to add features related to this stuff, but it would be nice to have them if someone is willing to do so and it's something feasible to be done.

serene nebula
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So how did you deal with PS1 games in tate mode back then

crisp shale
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That's an incorrect premise.

serene nebula
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Ok cool, are they literally output at vertical/tate resolutions?

crisp shale
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PS1 DonPachi in TATE mode.

image.png
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PS1 DonPachi in YOKO mode.

image.png
serene nebula
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Ah nice. So the game has built in rotation?

cloud steppe
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Yeah. Several of the arcade ports do. That's why I was curious.

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But the Tate version is oriented horizontally of course.

serene nebula
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@crisp shale What I’m getting at, before you made your incorrect assumption, is that a lot of these games already feature tate mode rotation. For the ones that don’t, rotation won’t offer anything. For the ones that do but are rotated the wrong way, how many is that?

cloud steppe
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I don't think it's a huge number

serene nebula
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That’s the real payoff we’re looking at.

cloud steppe
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Less than 10 I'm sure. Maybe less than 5.

crisp shale
serene nebula
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again with your incorrect assumption lol

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@crisp shale answer my question please, how many tate mode games are rotated the wrong way

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Or not the way your CRT is oriented

cloud steppe
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I'm not sure number is the most important thing for a feature but yeah it doesn't make sense for all those resources for only like 5 games

serene nebula
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Exactly

cloud steppe
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It's really up to what the developer wants to do and I respect that.

serene nebula
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But uhhh if someone wants to do it because they like to then awesome!

serene nebula
cloud steppe
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480p hack was really for a few games

serene nebula
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But I want to make sure they’re equipped with the right information first that what they’re doing will only impact X number of games.

And that’s only because someone doesn’t want to rotate their CRT.

cloud steppe
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But there is more 480i games than Tate games, lol

serene nebula
cloud steppe
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I agree.

serene nebula
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I mean I didn’t care lol

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But hey nice to have!

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I mean I didn’t care about the wobbling, 480p is cool

cloud steppe
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And honestly some of these shooter arcade ports on psx have arcade cores already

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Or will

serene nebula
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To your point though, if someone wants to do then awesome

cloud steppe
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I'm not stressed

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It came up in the shooter channel so it got me curious

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Especially with Saturn coming up to it had me thinking

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I was playing the PSX core for a while last night and it still blows my mind how amazing it is.

serene nebula
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One day ill hook my MiSTer up to my PVM or 4K OLED. 😂

I so utterly floored by how wonderful the PSX and other cores work that I haven’t even thought to take it to either of the visual setup improvements (1440p+BFI+VRR or CRT authenticity).

I’ve always wanted to test for myself just how accurate the core is. I mean you can easily find that online but part of me wants to see it for myself. See if I can even tell the difference between my original system and the MiSTer.

abstract drift
serene nebula
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The obvious always eludes me LOL. You’re right as always.

abstract drift
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so yes, you have to physically rotate a crt for your tate games, but you can flip it so 270/90 doesn't matter

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i think most cores offer the same too right

serene nebula
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I was going to boast about that not being a problem on HDMI but I don’t have a rotating arm so it wouldn’t be sincere boasting and I can’t have that.

abstract drift
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i just played psx core for the first time on my actual pvm, which i only wheel out occasionally

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omg the nostalgia

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there's a vid somewhere of a guy who has like a 65" oled on a huge arm so he can tate it

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hilarius AND awesome

summer sage
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adding arbitrary rotation and screen tweaking stuff is waste of resources

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real psx had and needed neither

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considering the complexity of rotating a buffer and the already-difficult aspect ratios it would be an ugly mess

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just using up resources that could be used by a broader audience for something else instead

abstract drift
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there's not enough memory bandwidth anyway apparently

pseudo plinth
timber veldt
summer sage
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good thing you already have it

tropic stratus
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yes, the 90/270 degree flip is implemented as it was easy to do and should solve the wrong direction tate case

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90° rotate is very different and i will not do it

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arbitrary shifting would be possible, but as we don't have it in other 240p cores, i don't think i should add it as special solution for psx now. I only did it for lynx because the was no "standard" centered output. Maybe even that was not needed

summer sage
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I don't think you should do either personally

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if people can't find a better way to fix their tate issues they're going to have this problem endlessly on everything

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it's just going to become a hodgepodge of inconsistent per-core fixes

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it's better if they just get a respectable television setup

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if it's not good enough for real systems then there's probably a bigger isue

kind ravine
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I thought the use case was probably having a big screen hd tv and not being able to rotate it? I can see the utility of that and had wondered before if it could be done with framework settings, but I agree that adding it to the core probably isn’t worth the time

tropic stratus
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the only use in this case would be to have the tate image rotated afterwards instead of letting the game doing it, maybe leading to higher base resolution?

summer sage
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rotating the picture is convienient but it's never the best option

shut escarp
summer sage
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by the very nature of the thing it adds lag and will give you a smaller less appealing display

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jotego's cores are third party and don't really conform to anything, so they are what they are

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he doesn't even use the normal framework

shut escarp
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boohoo

kind ravine
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Yeah I think the higher vertical resolution is the goal. It’d be like using the Pac-Man core on a big screen tv, you’re getting all the intended pixels vertically instead of the squashed 240p versions some of the psx games have. But yeah having a display you can rotate is preferable for sure

tropic stratus
shut escarp
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From what I’ve seen there is little to no standard for any feature across cores considering they were basically all made by a different individual

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So it seems silly to hand wave away the fact said feature does exist for a lot of games

summer sage
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there's actually a lot of effort to coordinate features from core to core

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if you were a core dev you'd probably be aware of that

shut escarp
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Good one you really got me good

summer sage
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well if you want to cajole me about hand waving, you should probably know what you're talking about first

shut escarp
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You’re so hilariously insufferable

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It’s like a caricature

summer sage
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that's a bit pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?

cloud steppe
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I'm sorry. I was just curious about rotation. Robert answered my question last night. I unleashed chaos.

summer sage
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sorry he just likes to troll when he can

ivory verge
summer sage
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the screen rotation is an old conversation

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it's one of those things that comes up pretty regularly

tropic stratus
cloud steppe
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And the answer about resources needed and lack of a real net gain make sense

shut escarp
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Yes, I’m the one trolling by saying h/v adjustments do exist on 240p cores, not the one suggesting everyone go get a 2k TV to solve the issue

cloud steppe
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I also believe most of these tate PS1 games will be arcade cores soon enough. Some already are.

shut escarp
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I totally get if you don’t want to/feel the need to implement it, I’m just saying it does exist on plenty of 240p cores and has been a very useful feature for me and my use case

summer sage
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it exists on arcade cores that were tate

tropic stratus
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sure, the h/v adjust exists on some cores, mostly by one developer. But what does that mean? It's only useful for crt tvs that are odd and would have problems with the real consoles. For arcade cores this might be different, they don't have to be compatible with endless amount of tv sets like consoles

summer sage
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not on consoles that weren't

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arcade cores weren't made for consumer televisions so they need special handling

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that's why they have those features

shut escarp
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Even though it’s been shown time and time again that consumer televisions don’t necessarily have matching center points either

scenic reef
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It's usually pvms that have the worst default center point, and they usually have adjustments on the front panel.

summer sage
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we made it through the 90's somehow

scenic reef
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We can also make it through 2022 with HDMI.

🎣

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Jk folks

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I would love to be good enough to add standard features to my core ports, unfortunately I'm not as good at this at all to do it currently. Not sure if I can learn it well enough anytime soon. Sorry about my core ports not being consistent with the other ones.

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@tropic stratus does the base savestate modules between shared between your cores require tweaks for each core or do they stay the same and the code gets modified outside of them? Might be an argument for putting the savestate module in the sys folder at this point given multiple cores use it.

tropic stratus
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the savestate handling in the emu module should be 100% the same(if it's not, one hasn't been updated to the latest)

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the one in the core itself is changes for every core

scenic reef
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Okay, yeah I think putting it in sys would be a good course of action since over 5 cores use it and it would be easier to keep the modules up to date. Just a thought. I think having a parameterized hv adjust module for arcade cores or putting the module inside arcade video itself would be good too to keep things simple. I know Pierco has a parameterized hv adjust module he wrote that seems to work good.

tropic stratus
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i asked sorg about putting it in the framework long ago when only nes, gb and gba used it and it wasn't general enough at that time....maybe it makes more sense now with 6 cores using it

rare gyro
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I wonder if widescreen hack works in tate games

dry drift
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Real PSX didn’t have a scaler at all - wanting to rotate the image for substantial games that supported this is an ordinary thing to want a scaler to do - but again I think we will be in Mike Chi’s hands ultimately

drowsy bison
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@tropic stratus I have a save state in Grandia that crashes with Turbo set at medium (haven't tried with less or more). Is that interesting for you to debug?

ivory verge
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Only reporting issues with default settings makes sense

wanton crown
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Just pulled an insane time on crash team racing time trials on psx core

strong hatch
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Nice, congrats chefkiss

waxen elk
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All that time I spent talking about the memory card issues with ctr, and it's embarrassing how little time I've spent with it since. 😂

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Need to try out those nitro kart mods

wooden rose
wanton crown
gilded trellis
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i can't find scandouble fx, is there?

ivory verge
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Nope

tropic stratus
gilded trellis
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@tropic stratus scandouble when core detects non interlaced resolution is posible? pc crt users agree this feature. thx very much for your work!

ivory verge
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There will be no scandoubler, i.e. fpgazumspass is not going to do it, maybe someone else will do it in the future

gilded trellis
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Ok, I was asking to see features for hdmi and the scandouble is in the framework

ivory verge
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If you enable the scandoubler in the settings it still doesn't change anything for psx core

tropic stratus
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scandouble in the framework doesn't work with the core, because of the different pixel clock ratios and resolutions

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it would require a new/changed scandoubler that can work with those and also somehow handle 480i at all, otherwise every game booting will have issues, as they all start with the 480i bios...

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letting the vga scaler run with 480p output is probably the best way of scandoubling at this point

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there was a forum thread about it recently where this worked well

gilded trellis
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Ok thank you for you explanation, i thought it was simpler with non interlaced outputs (ofc non for 480i resolutions)

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I tested this core with 240p120hz (forked main) and image is great, but obviously without bfi

bitter lintel
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so....would it be possible to add a tate mode?

manic valley
frail storm
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Do you guys know if the original Ridge Raced is somehow patcheable to disable the 30fps limit? That way, it could be run at 60FPS with the core's turbo mode.

pseudo plinth
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The video is using emulation, but you can see that it's an option in the game's menu, I just don't remember the name.

manic valley
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It was a pack in bonus disc with ridge racer type 4

pseudo plinth
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Ridge Racer on Bonus Disc - Ridge Racer Type-4

ivory verge
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For me it's more tech demo, there is only one oponent

manic valley
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A lot of games have cheats to disable frame rate caps

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Rodge racer may be one of em

manic valley
bitter lintel
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"ridge raced" "rodge racer". it's like you people needs more fixin' than the core

serene nebula
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If you play the R4 Turbo version make sure to turn on 480p as its interlaced.

wooden rose
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Terrible photos but here's some that kind of show you how HDR impacts the picture

image.png
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Nature of the beast is that I can't properly show it with a photo, and it will always look darker, but you can see it in the skies best

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The SDR version looks washed out, it's not the fairest comparison since I have not enabled any gamma correction

bitter lintel
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ff7 mountainside speculars look amazing

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i'm sold

wooden rose
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But the contrast is quite obvious

wanton crown
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I'll definitely leave my CRTs for modern displays once we get 240p to 480i switch with no compromise (no lag due to frame buffer) and minimal lag (retrotink 5x pro already there at 1080p and even 1440p I think), 4K scanlines will be a plus and with HDR I can only imagine it will be as close if not better than CRTs

wooden rose
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Well this is HDR on the MiSTer

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I can't claim the work entirely, a lot of it comes from wickerwaka's old branch

wanton crown
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yes but mister will never do 4K in its current state

wooden rose
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But it works just as well

bitter lintel
wooden rose
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Only my MiSTer does 4k ;)

bitter lintel
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hang on like it's your last gaming session

wooden rose
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God I wish someone else reproduced it too already

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I can't be the only person in the world with the luckiest HDMI chip

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Granted I can only run at 30Hz, but it's quite nice

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But it requires a pixel clock of 264MHz, well beyond the rated 165MHz

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Some people report not being able to hit 209 for 1440p

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Here's a 4K screenshot of Sephiroth fucking dying

image.png
vestal thicket
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What scanline filter settings do you use? I assume they work/look even better in 4kizzle?

bitter lintel
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that looks too sharp

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and unintended

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you may want to try to..... tweak your settings

wooden rose
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It's one of TrashUncle's

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He has one shadow mask that is meant for 9x scale

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Due to 4k being like, only a thing on my machine, there are pretty much no native 4k masks

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But yeah it all does look nicer in 4k

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I took this screenshot with my TV, it's WYSIWYG

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To even do this you need to modify the scaler in each core to run at 4k, which does take up a lot of fabric

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I did it for SNES and Genesis as well - SNES required me to cut out MSU support

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So even if the MiSTer had this super expensive HDMI transceiver, it would not be a free feature

frail storm
wooden rose
bitter lintel
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let me live

ivory verge
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More blur , yeah more blur

wooden rose
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I have seen that animation before

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But I can't place it...

ivory verge
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@bitter lintel another sotn run?

wooden rose
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14x14 isnt much

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Imagine an afterlife where the only game on offer is SotN

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That would be just fine no?

ivory verge
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It's basket's favorite game 😉

bitter lintel
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i'm on my fifth today

ivory verge
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nice, and then Resident Evil ?

bitter lintel
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of course

crisp shale
# frail storm That's why specified "original Ridge Racer". I know about the bonus disc version...

This list here (not mine) has a bunch of cheats to uncap the framerate of PSX games:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BoN2X_tebIfaqTFC_XUYuazPSY_fMrDUE7NI5psw0LE/edit?usp=sharing
It doesn't have the first RR game, but it has Rage Racer.

I think you may actually need more than just a uncap code, though.
For example, the scrolling speed of the track seems to be adjusted to 30 fps in the PSX port, so it would feel sped up and require quicker reactions than the arcade game if you just uncapped the framerate.

Google Docs
Playstation 60FPS Cheats

Sheet1

Game Name,Region,Disc Serial Number,Code,Notes (Emulator settings, etc.)
007 Racing,US,SLUS-01300,E006ABB0 0003
3006ABB0 0001
Advan Racing,Japan,SLPS-01689,301C4F6A 0000
Or
8017B234 0105 (60fps exact?),Needs testing/cleaned up
Agile Warrior,US,SLUS-00023,300F9764 003C
Akuji the Heartless,...

frail storm
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@crisp shale Oh I see.. it seems to be one of these games where timing & framerate are tied together. Ouch

manic valley
manic valley
visual depot
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I personally doubt any of these will achieve 60FPS on original hardware, let alone even boot properly.

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The MiSTer tries to mimic the hardware. Most emulators add a compatibility layer to make the games work under PC limitations, and thus can remove some of the limits of original hardware, allowing higher framerates and resolutions through the use of this "layer"

bitter lintel
visual depot
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I think you mean this one @bitter lintel

bitter lintel
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both works

visual depot
crisp shale
twin walrus
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besides the steadier twenty in many games, are there any games that became easier due to the nicer FPS?

tropic stratus
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the cheat list is great, but unfortunatly not universal. E.g. the muppet monster adventure cheat works....you get 60fps. But the game runs at double speed

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same for colin 2.0

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ctr somehow works, but the animation being double speed is really weird. Even the waves in water are double speed

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also it crashes when using 2x + turbo, which would be required to even run at 60fps, without turbo it only reaches 45fps average

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thps2 works ok, but even with 2x+turbo will drop to 40fps sometimes. not sure if i would prefer the inconsistent fps over stable 30

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just in case anyone wants to try them

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be sure to leave turbo off until the cheat is working

twin walrus
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As long as the physics aren't hard coded to the FPS, fluctuating frame rates won't matter to me 😄

crystal ferry
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thank you for the reply, the HDMI output is connected to my capture card so i always have that option. I realize now that it also takes up a lot of the screen on CRT so i wouldnt really want to have it enabled anyway. Sorry for the trouble

runic edge
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The sound in Putter Golf got fixed at some point. Hooray!

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Virtual pool 3 sound still borked tho.

ivory verge
manic valley
empty obsidian
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Not sure if this is where I'm supposed to post this. First time posting in the discord. When playing FF1 in Final Fantasy Origins, randomly would get an audio spike when healing. Were it would getting really loud from time to time for one then go back to normal.

ivory verge
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first basic question

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default settings ? 🙂

ivory verge
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and what core ? latest stable? if yes please try unstable

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#unstable-nightlies message

tropic stratus
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would also be great if you have a savestate before it happens, so i can reproduce

empty obsidian
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On the default settings for the PSX v221119. Was testing how it played to see if it ran similar to the disc. Can try those when I get home from being out of town.

mystic violet
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yeah that one is ancient at this time

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try the unstable core

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don't worry - you can put both in the same directory @empty obsidian

cerulean island
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soon!

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btw how do i change disks without resetting the core?

glacial orbit
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Ideally, you'd have the images in the same folder

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For example, the beatmania boot disks and appends would be in the same directory

cerulean island
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oh, okay.

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and that'll keep it from resetting when i try to load an append?

glacial orbit
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Yeah, that's how I do it

cerulean island
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thank you

glacial orbit
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Let's hope it works for you 😛

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I think the method I use is the "old" method, I think there's a different way, but it hasn't caused me issues so far

cerulean island
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what's the new method?

glacial orbit
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I don't know lol, I just ignored it and kept doing my thing

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Hopefully someone documented it

ivory verge
oblique frost
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the proper and most right method (imo) is one folder per game, including having all the discs for a single game in one folder.

There's another thing that involves setting a special text file, noreset.txt or somethin in a folder to make the game not reset.

There's also one more thing that I believe these days if you set the lid to open before switching it won't reset

glacial orbit
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I think the noreset.txt is no longer needed

visual depot
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This is the naming scheme standard for the core I believe

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" (Disc #)" at the end of the filename

oblique frost
visual depot
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make sure the cue is edited to point to the new name if you're using .cue/.bin.

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You can also place cdbios.bin for a different bios file in the folders to make foreign games boot.

glacial orbit
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do we really need to rename anything? I haven't had any problems

visual depot
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idk but .cue files have the filenames listed in the file. it's a text file

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generally that has to be modified if you rename the bin's

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unless MiSTer does some auto-detection magic

oblique frost
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only if you rename your bin you must edit the cue, but you don't need to rename anything if you can keep your discs straight.

visual depot
oblique frost
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also with cdbios.bin, you can now just have boot.rom, boot1.rom, and boot2.rom in your games/PSX directory and it'll swap between them for different regions

visual depot
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a lot of stuff fails to read it without the name matching, so I guess that feature was something the MiSTer does specially

oblique frost
# 
boot1.rom => JP BIOS
boot2.rom => EU BIOS```
visual depot
ivory verge
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Everything is in readme 😋

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Nobody reads it anyway haha

cerulean island
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so I can add noreset.txt to the folders of the disk 2 games and they won't reset?

jovial jay
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If disks are in the same folder, the core won’t reset when swapping disks.

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noreset.txt is useful if you are swapping disks that are not in the same folder. Like if you are using a cheat disk.

cerulean island
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for beatmania append, specifically, it really doesn't make sense to have them in the same folder. so I will do that. thank you.

empty obsidian
rare gyro
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#1047332497492553799

serene nebula
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Is there anything special I need to do to take advantage of dual ram?

oblique frost
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then bask in the completely undetectable difference in audio

serene nebula
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oh my gosh, this is a huge boost in audio quality

cerulean island
oblique frost
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looking back, I think the noreset.txt needs to be in the folder of the first disc you load

cerulean island
rare gyro
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Is it still necessary that all CHDs are in their own directoy?

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With the exception of multidisc games

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On my nas I have a directory full of CHDs, and I'm wondering if I need to make a directory for each game

oblique frost
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yes, if you want the auto memory card make and mount magic to work right

rare gyro
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hmm.. then I'll need to find a linux command to go through each CHD and move it into a directory of its own name :/

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or would anyone by any chance have a script for that?

oblique frost
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in the directory full of chds, something like this should work ```
/bin/ls *.chd | while read line; do mkdir "${line/.chd/}" && mv "${line}" "${line/.chd/}"; done

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I think there might be more robust scripts if you dig around in the #psx-chat archive

mystic violet
# 
#!/bin/bash    
echo "--- BIN/CUE to CHD Converter ---"

cpus=8
echo "- Using $cpus CPUs to crunch those bits"

shopt -s globstar
for file in **/*.cue; do

gameName="$(basename "$file" .cue)"

echo "----------------------------------"
echo "- Now Converting '$gameName'"
echo "- Start"

chdman createcd -np $cpus -i "./$file" -o "$gameName.chd"

echo "- End"

done

echo "Move Games To Their Own Directory"
for x in ./*.chd; do
  mkdir "${x%.*}"  
  mv "$x" "${x%.*}"
done``` @oblique frost
abstract drift
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just the last bit though

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the first 2/3rds are making chds out of cues

rare gyro
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I don't have chdman on the nas yet, as I was lucky enough to find an archive with CHD files

rare gyro
mystic violet
#

@rare gyro this script was used 2 fold - when I first started to make the collection (before I probably found the same chd collection 😛 ) and once I had the CHD files to put them in their own folder

#

I did multi disk files manually

rare gyro
#

It's interesting that there a multiple ways of achieving the same result

mystic violet
#

linux 🙂

rare gyro
#

But it's all bash script? Save it as a .sh, give it the right permissions and run it?

wooden rose
#

I've also got a script for you

#

You can run it from the scripts menu, just need to edit the directory variable if you don't use the default

#

It's meant to be run as you periodically add new games

wooden rose
#

I've never seen this colorway before!

IMG_1338.jpg
#

Dang this PS2 too, it's really cool

IMG_1339.jpg
ivory verge
#

yeah, looks very nice

wooden rose
#

There's a red controller too, and presumably blue

#

Man I'm so tempted to get everything lol

ivory verge
#

I already have three PS2 , I had to limit purchases, lack of space 😄

wooden rose
#

I don't have one in Japan

#

By the way, any recommendations regarding on how to get to HDMI? I've seen dedicated aftermarket cables but dunno if they are any good

oblique frost
#

last time I hooked a PS2 up to a TV I used component cables into my framemeister out to HDMI

#

so I guess these days a retrotink? I dunno if we have anything better

azure niche
oblique frost
#

my secret is I don't use the cd speed hacks

wooden rose
#

Bought it

#

Including the green and red controller

#

No blue controller but it's still RGB lol

#

I wanted a PS2 and this one is beautiful

#

Comes with a month warranty too

azure niche
wooden rose
#

The C8 doesn't mind it, at least over HDMI

#

I'm looking into HDMI converter cables as well (don't really feel like bringing out the Framemeister)

slow tusk
wooden rose
#

I bought it! I love the color

wooden rose
#

I ended up ordering the Hyperkin HDMI adapter, it has a 16;9/4:3 hardware switch and the display looks fine

mystic violet
manic valley
wooden rose
#

30 more or less

#

It's not gonna be perfect but probably pretty okay

#

Works on PS1 too

#

I also ordered a network + SATA adapter (third party) and a fmcb mem card

#

I'll be using NAS mostly but I'm curious if the HDD experience is good - only ever had USB

visual depot
#

Just a forwarning

wooden rose
#

It seemed fairly good from the reviews and photos, but I'm aware yeah haha

#

I used to have component

visual depot
#

it outputs very odd 480i and 480p signals that tend to cause most upscalers to have a hard time latching onto the signals properly

#

expect a very blurred or soft image, is all I can say lol

wooden rose
#

I've never tried it with any upscaler, last time I used a real PS2 I had a TV with scart and component and all

#

Dunno it seemed plenty sharp to me from the customer reviews

#

But we'll see

#

If it's no good then too bad

#

If it's good, well maybe others might try

visual depot
#

if it's Amazon reviews, not sure what you can expect from them lol

wooden rose
#

Japanese ones

#

Which are notoriously critical

#

But it's mostly the photos

visual depot
#

also it's possible they may not even support 480p

wooden rose
#

Can't watch atm, I'm on the train

visual depot
#

looks very soft but the color is really off.

wooden rose
#

Color is off?

visual depot
#

it's much more saturated than component

wooden rose
#

I'm not expecting perfection though

#

Looks okay to me from this photo

IMG_1343.png
#

Ah well saturation can be tweaked

visual depot
#

it doesn't look bad, but it is much softer than the OG signal. Fonts are somewhat mangled sometimes from the feed I'm watching

wooden rose
#

I can color calibrate too, finally got the proper hardware and software

#

Ofc it does have some of that sharpening yes

visual depot
#

yep confirmed. The adapter cannot display 480p video

#

so you have to stick with 480i

wooden rose
#

It outputs 720p

visual depot
#

I mean the input

#

The PS2 could do 480p for some games

wooden rose
#

Yeah I know

visual depot
#

or be forced to for others with GSM

wooden rose
#

Even 720i for some

#

I'm not too bothered, anyway it comes in tomorrow

#

I'll just try it out

visual depot
#

it doesn't look too bad.

wooden rose
#

For 30 dollars it's okay I think

#

That's a bit more than the really crappy scalers

visual depot
#

latency is another concern though

#

most of these things add a large hit to the input delay

#

not sure if that's a concern of yours

wooden rose
#

I'll see

#

Not very much no

#

I tend to play RPGs haha

visual depot
#

gotcha

wooden rose
#

I can always bust out the Framemeister if I want to

visual depot
#

it would probably do a better job to an extent, but I will say that iirc the PS2 just hasn't worked well on any upscaler until the RT5X

#

it's frustrating as the OSSC I had made it look pretty bad lol. Very blurred

wooden rose
#

This is why I kept my Framemeister, the OSSC was never a perfect replacement

#

Don't own a Retrotink sadly

#

But I do have an OSSC as well yeah

#

We've come a long way, Framemeister was once the golden standard for HDMI

#

Obviously when it got discontinued, something else had to replace it

visual depot
#

it had its flaws too though

#

Namely very poor resolution switch handling

#

If a game swapped between 480i and 240p for menus and gameplay respectively, the Framemeister suffered the most in waiting for the signal to display

wooden rose
#

Yep, Chrono Cross comes to mind

#

The OSSC did that better, plus it was lower latency cause it's a doubler rather than a scaler

tulip moat
#

https://vxtwitter.com/retrotink2/status/1605103747297730561?t=y1It0g-Hyq49GosEaQPUpw&s=19

vxTwitter
Testing direct HDMI from the MiSTer PSX core into the RT4K! So far all good. No problems with the super-wide resolution (yes it automatically rescales to a 4:3 AR🤡) No drops between 240p/480i with the buffer on. MA...
Mike Chi (@retrotink2)

Testing direct HDMI from the MiSTer PSX core into the RT4K!

So far all good. No problems with the super-wide resolution (yes it automatically rescales to a 4:3 AR🤡)

No drops between 240p/480i with the buffer on. MA deinterlacing works in 480i 👍

▶ Play video
ivory verge
#

480p is a hack ,so not everything works ok, not every game

#

dead or alive, tekken 3 looks nicer

#

yes but here it is not possible to do it like on emulators

visual depot
#

the signal has to be handled like it is on original hardware. Emulators read the buffer and then convert after the fact. 480p on MiSTer has to hack it so it's technically part of the hardware

mystic violet
#

try the bios boot screen (the CD player or mem card screen)

#

not sure if it happens with all resolutions and vsync settings though

#

only happens at a friends house

#

I can't reproduce here what happens at a friends house

#

well both are my misters - but I gave her one to play games

ivory verge
#

vampier 😄

mystic violet
#

hey - not that mister

#

I'm married

visual depot
#

I'm confused as why this is an issue. Just use HDMI on the MiSTer to get a clean output?

#

the MiSTer handles the 480i to progressive translation itself

#

including 1080p, 1440p, and even 720p if you wanted to

#

yes but then if you use HDMI you won't having combing artifacts

#

at least I don't

#

you can use bob deinterlacing which removes the combing issues

#

combing is with weave deinterlacing, specifically

#

But honestly I play on my OLED and the combing isn't that noticeable for me even with weave... idk

#

I generally don't think about it I guess

#

on MiSTer?

#

I tried Tekken 3. See what you mean, but 480p hack works fine on it so

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

ivory verge
#

Nothing is likely to change in the core in this regard, and what we have is amazing, core is great 🙂

#

if someone doesn't want to use core because there are a few games in 480i it's a bit strange 🙂

visual depot
#

honestly not sure what there is to complain about yeah. Sounds like you haven't tried it yourself @upper forge I would probably not knock it until you try it lol

#

the fact the 480p hack even exists when it didn't on the PS1 is pretty awesome. The MiSTer's goal is to reproduce original hardware, not emulate the games as its primary objective

#

everything that comes after is a bonus

#

But it does play the games pretty beautifully

ivory verge
#

yeah, all the rest are great additions 🙂

visual depot
#

And honestly, the MiSTer's strongest argument is its low-latency gameplay

#

You can't get that on an emulator with the emulator overhead, operating system overhead, and GPU overhead

#

even with 1ms monitor, the best emulator, nothing can fix the GPU overhead or the operating system's latency itself

ivory verge
#

since we stopped testing games here massively, do not use the original hw at all 🙂

visual depot
#

that sounds like sacrilege

#

😂

ivory verge
#

😛

#

my PlayStation has been retired 🙂

visual depot
#

ah

#

RIP

tropic stratus
#

the signal is always interlaced, even in emulators. In 480i, the game only renders the odd/even lines and will give out the opposite in the same frame. Both in the same framebuffer. A emulator can now force the game to render both odd and even in the same frame and copy out the result in zero time at vsync. The core cannot copy in zero time, it has to read out the framebuffer while the new rendering is done. So having true 480p isn't possible. What the hack does is using multiple framebuffers instead of 1, so the new image can be written while the old is read out. BUT: if the game depends on reading contents from the framebuffer or leaves some parts static, this method will not work. That's why it's a hack

visual depot
#

Yeah I'm not sure where they thought the PS1 handles 480p natively... are there even any PS1 games that do that?

swift pendant
#

Dumb question, but is it not possible to track at readback time which "single" framebufffer the game would have expected to read from?

visual depot
#

the PS1 doesn't even have YPbPr support for component in its hardware

#

So it wasn't even really made for use on modern televisions

tender tartan
visual depot
#

yeah I wondered...

subtle dragon
#

Always the possibility they may have mixed it up for PS2

tender tartan
#

Saturn can do it, because why wouldn’t it. It’s not usable in practice though.

tropic stratus
#

ps1 cannot give out 480p, it would need completly different timings and clocks, while 480i is more or less the sam as 240p with just some modification

tropic stratus
#

for example ehrgeiz is doing that: it renderes the inventory above the normal ingame view, but only in the center. The ingame view is static and only the inventory is updated. That does not work with the hack. So the hack has a automatic to detect that, switch to 480i when it happens and switches back to 480p when you leave the inventory

#

i think the arcade only has the fighting game, while i'm only interested in the rpg/quest game 🙂

#

but the arcade is also 480i:

#

yes, some have double vram and run the cpu at 50mhz(or 48?), but i have not seen true 480p yet. But 2mbyte vram would make that possible.

#

ehrgeiz is running on such a machine(namco system 12), but is still only 480i

serene nebula
#

@tropic stratus that RPG quest mode is seriously fun. While we missed out on getting a localized Tobal 2, at least we got the best version of that team’s rpg quest mode with Ergheiz!

#

I remember buying it just for the FF7 characters and then forgetting about the rest of the game when I loaded that mode up for the first time, lol.

#

Oh yeah completely agreed! I only found out about Soul Calibur thanks to the Dreamcast but going back and playing the PS1 port and it’s great fun!

#

Not a fan of Capcom’s other 3D fighter though, Star Gladiator.

#

Errrr sorry we’re taking about Namco LOL

#

Yeah dude I’m all over the place lol

#

ahhhh

#

Yeah

abstract drift
#

the DC version seems like almost a remake too its weird

#

yeah but that would be strange since soul edge on ps1 has full 3d arenas

#

and its a gameplay mechanic aswell

#

yeah maybe

#

i can see why they decided to just not

#

the dreamcast version is awesome

serene nebula
#

Oh right they renamed Edge cause of that copyright troll

#

Tim Langdell, what a goober

rare gyro
serene nebula
azure niche
#

I don't think Sega CD or Turbografx CD have speed hacks but I rarely touch those cores and the few games I play don't exactly have loading issues

#

The beta Saturn core doesn't have CHD support yet.

manic valley
serene nebula
#

I meant more like back in the day

manic valley
#

Word

visual depot
#

no it doesn't lol. might want to read up

#

7-zip is too processor intensive and complex to be used in the field besides computers

#

It takes too many resources, and CHD files are generally smaller since they're more designed for disc media

#

IIRC 7-zip also requires a crap ton of RAM to use efficiently

#

more than the MiSTer can provide

#

7-zip and chd may use a similar compression algorithm (lzma) for the data ... but it's not 7-zip compression as a whole, it's just the algorithm used for the data compression

#

and technically chd's can also use zlib instead of lzma for the data. I believe chdman uses lzma though, which works with the MiSTer

#

The main benefit I believe CHD has over 7-zip is 7-zip cannot save filesize by compressing audio data. CHD can do this by actually compressing the audio data losslessly via transcoding (flac)

#

ultimately CHD is a much lighter compression in terms of access speed, and is more designed for games. Most disc emulators do not support 7-zip even. It's too slow. The game would have to be loaded entirely into ram, which is not what they're designed to do. old cartridge based consoles don't have this issue because the emulator is designed to load the games into ram by default

#

Not even Dolphin or PCSX2 support 7-zip.

serene nebula
#

Real silly question here but what’s the need for zipping roms. Aren’t they minuscule in size?

#

Well minuscule compared to a cdrom game.

visual depot
#

they do save a lot of space if you have large collections of them

#

32MB GBA games can get as small as like 6-8MB in 7z

#

the data can often have a lot of compressible stuff in it, null values and the like

#

compared to disc games they can be generally compressed much smaller compared to their total size

serene nebula
#

I see, thanks for explaining it

visual depot
#

disc games just tend to have a lot more uncompressible data like streamed audio and video

serene nebula
#

Like a complete collection for a system, that probably takes a ton of space. Especially GBA like you said.

visual depot
#

which is what CHD was designed to help with. It can reduce filesize by transcoding the audio... rather than trying to simply compress it as-is

#

it's still lossless compression, but it can detect lack of audio frequencies, something 7-zip or simple file compression can't do

serene nebula
#

Ah, I don’t understand the compression algorithm other than being extremely impressed by it, haha.

#

Simply incredible

visual depot
#

basically take a recording of audio that has completely dead silent (no audio at all)

#

To a computer, if it's raw audio, it's still 100% audio

#

it's just .... silent

#

so a wav with nothing in it is still the same size at 1 minute regardless of what's in it, empty or not

#

7-zip can't tell the difference between silent audio and full audio

#

CHD can, and will compress the silent frequencies to reduce size. This is called lossless transcoding. Transcoding to a lossless smaller filesize does this by design

#

The audio that exist isn't lost. But the audio that doesn't exist is compressed.

#

Lossless.

#

Mp3 is a transcode but is lossy.... It loses audio during conversion every time. Sorry for the info dump. Spent a lot of time on this subject.

serene nebula
#

@visual depot always appreciate your knowledge, my friend. Thanks for the great explanation!

visual depot
#

I try but I'm not perfect. I get things wrong too xD

#

Please don't feed my ego xD

#

Last thing I want tbh

summer sage
#

but size isn't everything, it's how you use it

#

the space that is

serene nebula
#

sdzfjkl;dsafjklsdafj you beat me to the joke

summer sage
#

I waited to see you typing before posting it

serene nebula
#

LOL, damn you're good

summer sage
#

well, after a lifetime of she-said jokes, it's nice to be on top for once

rare gyro
#

giggity 🤓

serene nebula
#

rofl

lilac scaffold
#

Zipping full sets into a single archive makes transferring them much quicker too

#

No overhead from thousands of tiny files

rare gyro
#

Yeah that's how I transfer many files at a time

#

there's a sort of exodos collection for the commodore 64, and while its full of many tiny games, it takes forever to transfer them if its one at a time

#

I don't even bother compressing it

#

anyway I'll unpack it via ssh once its where it needs to be

#

At least I don't think the cores can do zipception

serene nebula
#

Ah wow, hadn't thought of any of that. I just thought "small files, why zip?" but there's a ton of benefit. Thanks for explaining it!

dry drift
#

It’s when you have small files that there is the most benefit

rare gyro
#

I'll have to tweak it to work with Sega CD as well

lilac scaffold
#

Thanks for the '-c cdzl,cdfl' tip Doval and Natrox 👍

mystic violet
#

I like bunnies

crisp shale
#

I think one of the downsides here would be to spend the effort to support something that may have issues depending on the size of the game file.
Let's say you add 7zip support to the Genesis core. Sonic 1 uses a 4 Mbit ROM, while the recently released Demons of Asteborg uses 128 Mbit. The Ultimate Mortal Kombat Trilogy hack is 100 Mbit.
And you could have even bigger ROMs in the future due to the use of custom mappers.

lilac scaffold
#

zip files are treated as folders, so it can be an entire systems romset in a single zip

wooden rose
#

Aye, it's also useful for multi disk games that share data.

lilac scaffold
#

yeah I used individual zip no-intro sets until recently moving to the HTGDB sets which come as one zip

#

every no-intro set I've ever downloaded has been zip not 7z so never had any issues with either

#

back to PSX, I don't normally use the higher speed CD settings but think I'll recompress my games using cdzl over my Christmas holiday also 🙂

quick gyro
#

What a big change log again! Thanks for the core Robert!

ivory verge
#

@tropic stratus I wanted to thank you for this super trip with PSX core, it was a lot of fun and a lot of testing, we learned a lot about how PlayStation works. Glad , that your next project will be open to us . Happy Christmas and all the best for the new year !

tropic stratus
#

Thank you 🙂

terse pollen
tropic stratus
#

i also have to thank all of you for the support and the great time we had here. Don't want to miss that, so i hope we can repeat it next year 🙂

tacit fox
#

So is Alien Resurrection fixed without having to manually trigger IRQ? 😱

ivory verge
#

nope, We must live with that 🙂

tacit fox
#

Sure thing, I can live with that! Thanks for everything, Robert! ❤️

dim finch
#

can someone tell me more about what black transitions does

#

also thank you and merry Christmas @tropic stratus -- been an amazing journey watching every step of this core from hype to polished gem. i now consider this the crown jewel of the mister cores. obsessively tracking each update and progress video reminded me of being a kid and having all the hype as NESticle and stuff like ZSNES and MAME slowly improved. the hype of each new update, the renewed joy of old games brought back to life in this new way. thanks so much for using your talent to create this. will be your patreon till im an old man!!

#

(wait i am a old man lol)

ivory verge
#

yes

#

at the end you will find an analysis of the problem

tacit fox
#

It boggles my mind why it doesn't happen in OG hardware though 🤔

rain cedar
#

What is the latest stable dual_sdram PSX Core files?

ivory verge
#

test builds section

rain cedar
ivory verge
#

yes

ivory verge
rain cedar
#

Ah ok thanks... I’ve never used the files to update I usually just do the script. Is there instructions?

rain cedar
ivory verge
#

put in the folder

#

🙂

rain cedar
#

Ooh its drag and drop

#

Ok thankssss

ivory verge
#

yes we have been analysing this for a long time, for now there is no solution, maybe one day

#

Many emulator games use various hacks, we don't want that here

rare gyro
swift pendant
#

Just reading his latest patreon posts, any hints on Robert's next project?

crystal ferry
#

Alien resurrection problem could probably be fixed by modifying just a bit of the game data to avoid the endless loop. Much easier software fix than hardware/emulation fix

#

In the case of the psx "accurate" is a moving target. A 1001 and a 9001 don't behave the same in many ways even if the end display is similar

tacit fox
#

Any evidences of Alien Resurrection screwing up on OG hardware? In case it does, I would say the core shouldn't do anything to fix it (and fix should come by patching the game itself)

wanton crown
#

game would have never been commercialised if it was impossible to complete on original hardware (and we're not dealing to something as specific as some digimon PAL version soft lock thing on ps1)

oblique frost
#

just thinkin, the psx core is technically more compatible than a ps2 running psx games because Robert fixed the persona 2 text bug with other compatibility fixes

wanton crown
#

by far

oblique frost
#

even official psx stuff is a mess

wanton crown
#

ps2 has a ton of inconsistencies (compared to a real ps1)

serene nebula
#

You know, if you don’t think about the alien resurrection bug it’s like it doesn’t even exist.

#

it’s fixed for me

wanton crown
#

couldn't care less about that game but from an accuracy standpoint I'm amazed that the core shows this behavior despite being incredibly godlike already

abstract drift
#

see if aliens resurrection is fixed? it definitely isn't

#

yeah there was a different bug fixed and a workaround added for the door one

#

thats the changelog since the last stable release though, we've had that on nightly builds for a while

summer sage
#

7zip makes solid archives which are too slow and unusable even for small files. A file near the end of an archive requires traversing the entire archive in this type of zip.

ivory verge
#

If any of this is fixed in the future, we will certainly be informed here

summer sage
#

that's a pretty acceptable list of issues

#

im not sure i'd ever bump into one of those naturally

ivory verge
#

yes, many of us 🙂

#

there should be no problem with them

tropic stratus
#

the repeated audio bug in alien was fixed, not the door bug

hollow stratus
#

Gonna be a new PSX video tomorrow with the fun 2X core. Good times

tropic stratus
#

would be great, but it's not. Try to find any info about it....i did and the only things i found is: sometimes happens on real ps1(reports on reddit and youtube) and there was a epsxe plugin that lowers(!) spu accuracy, that fixes the issue, which makes sense as lower accuracy will trigger the irq by chance. Neither duckstation, nor pcsx or mednafen mention alien at any point

visual depot
#

Wishing you a happy new year @tropic stratus You've done the world a service in my eyes. The core is an amazing feat 🙂

mystic violet
#

If someone knows a PSX Dev who likes to debug tell them to debug the game and write a patch 😄

ivory verge
visual depot
#

It's a bug. Can't address them on the core the same way as emulators. They are not designed the same way at all

tropic stratus
# dim finch can someone tell me more about what black transitions does

whenever the resolution changes, the scaler has to adjust for the new resolution and might show garbage for up to 3 frames(when going from 240p to 480i or vice versa). This option will make the screen black instead of showing garbage for these 3 frames. It will make the output more clean but sometimes might be irritating, e.g. when a game switches from a white screen to a blue screen and you get 3 black frames in between. That's why it's still a option

ivory verge
#

"I just buy new game Alien Ressurection for the PS1 but I'm having a glitch when I try to open this door. It just doesn't open.
I went through the first time I tried, but I died and when load my game to try again, the door simply doesn't open now.
I've seen other people with this issue on other doors in the game, but they were all playing it on emulators, I'm playing it on a real PS1 console, so I can't apply patches or anything to a emulator to fix (cause am not using one).
This is annoying the game wasnt that cheap and I really want to try out this game.
Any help is very appreciated."\

mystic violet
#

@ivory verge wonder if that's Vaseline on the camera

visual depot
#

so it seems it can happen on real hardware?

tropic stratus
#

did anyone ever try if the PAL version has the same bug in the core?

ivory verge
ivory verge
visual depot
#

do PS3's show the PS1 logo on boot?

tropic stratus
ivory verge
#

writes that it plays on ps1, I have no reason not to believe it

visual depot
#

I'd rather believe it than try to argue that he's lying.....

#

and that is the BIOS lol

#

someone else in comments states they have the issue in PS2 with POPStarter which is basically running natively on the PS2

summer sage
#

it's probably just a software bug with edge case behavior on some silicon

#

everything seems to point to that

visual depot
#

The fact that it happens on a lot of things makes me think it's an issue with the game's design and not the host platform

#

and a lot of people probably haven't bothered to report it on PS1

#

lol

serene nebula
#

If I were @tropic stratus my next update on the PS1 core would be to make Alien Resurrection not work at all. There’s no bug if you can’t load it!

#

That’ll teach y’all!

tropic stratus
#

speedrunners will never run into it, as it only happens if you die and reload from memcard

ivory verge
#

exactly

tropic stratus
#

@serene nebula no worries, i made my peace with the game. I invested several days into this bug and it's enough at some point

#

it's fully playable with the workaround that is required 0-2 times through the game, so i can live with the current state

#

if anyone has more clues about the root cause, i will for sure look after it, but i will not research myself anymore at this point

visual depot
#

Seems to me like it's a memory management issue of the game itself. The timings are just too close and it can sometimes just shift the wrong order

#

That's what I'm reading from various users encountering the issue

#

The game was pushing the hardware pretty hard, and it seems a lot of things with IRQ were tight

#

I'm voting that this is something that can occur in the game personally. I see no reason for anyone reporting an issue like this to take the time to make a video like that to lie about it

#

what the hell is an unintentional lie lol

tacit fox
#

Well, again, if it happens on real hardware, so there's nothing to be done at the core then! 🙂

serene nebula
#

You’re a real hardware

ivory verge
#

we've already discussed it so many times here, it doesn't work in core and that's it, we have 3000 more games 😄

visual depot
#

regardless, Robert said he's done researching the issue and spent several days looking into it. There's a working workaround to fix the problem on the core. I see no reason to try and convince him to revisit it when the game plays fine if you don't die and you can fix the problem if you do.

#

Honestly considering the fix on emulators was to loosen the SPU IRQ timings, it proves the game's timings are too tight

#

but you can't do that same kind of fix on a core with an FPGA

#

since you can't do that on real hardware without changing the hardware

ivory verge
#

no one is lynching anyone here, the topic is not a foregone conclusion, maybe someday we can get to the cause of this problem 🙂

tacit fox
#

And @upper forge all your inputs are also welcomed here! 👍

visual depot
#

I think they left

tacit fox
#

Boo 😩

visual depot
#

I wonder if they actually had a MiSTer tbh

#

not to say they have to

azure niche
#

Thanks for all your hard work on this core @tropic stratus, you really went above and beyond.

ivory verge
#

I don't understand the situation now....

#

btw I am very much looking forward to the reveal of Robert's new project 😄

visual depot
#

oh there's a new project?! 😮

#

I missed that memo

tacit fox
#

Super curious about it

#

3DO maybe? 🙃

dry drift
#

💩

visual depot
#

oh no. It's the OP. run

mystic violet
#

PO-OP

crisp shale
# tropic stratus did anyone ever try if the PAL version has the same bug in the core?

Not yet, I think.
There's also these prototypes that I plan to check soon:
https://hiddenpalace.org/Alien_Resurrection_(Aug_8,_2000_prototype)
My personal belief is that they introduced this issue in the game late in the development cycle, maybe some late technical change/"optimization".
'Cause I don't think a similar bug has been reported in their other PS1 games and this was a pretty well-known company with a very good reputation; I tend to assume that they had a decent QA process for PS1 games at that point.
This game had a very troubled development cycle though (especially in terms of design), with lots of major changes upon major changes.
So maybe something went unnoticed in the last few weeks; maybe an update in the engine that would require a full regression wasn't fully checked due to how much they had already spent on the whole project.
I will check the protos that have the troubled doors and will report back here.

Alien Resurrection (Aug 8, 2000 prototype)
#

'Cause I don't think a similar bug has been reported in their other PS1 games

#

This sounds interesting.

#

Well yeah, I'm playing on a PS1 and, unfortunately, I just have one affected save. :/

Actually, some days ago I started a new game to check if I could get different results. Surprisingly the door opened and I managed to complete the level. That means that this glitch triggers only if you do something specific first, I wonder what exactly though.

mystic violet
#

@tropic stratus if the new core you're going to work on needs testing we'll be there 😄

ivory verge
#

He announced , that he will be open to us 😛

mystic violet
#

I canceled my patreon - I'll resume when I can (I quit all creators support for the time being)

lost summit
#

We will be ready to start the test the new core 😃

EiLur4cXcAABsR1.png
mystic violet
#

I can't decided if they are cyclists/star wars fans or nerds larping as cycling star wars fans

tropic stratus
lost summit
mystic violet
#

Standing by

quick gyro
#

Now that we left the alien topic behind how about guessing what great core will come next 😅

ivory verge
#

3DO 😎

mystic violet
#

CDi

ivory verge
#

Wii

mystic violet
#

unpossible! (not a spelling mistake... it's just unpossible)

quick gyro
#

I have no idea about cdi and 3do hope it will be a core with many great games though 😎

mystic violet
#

@quick gyro I was indeed referencing Ralph

tacit fox
#

I would guess it's not a CD based core. Too much headache! 😂

mystic violet
#

if I remember FPGAZumSpass' word correct he won't be putting a lot of time in something only a few users will actually enjoy.

#

looking at his history of his really great cores GBA/PSX I believe his next core might be a bit of lesser popularity (although those are basically at the top of the chain on what the MiSTer is capable off of desirable cores)

#

now combine this with cores we don't have

#

it probably won't be an arcade core

#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Virtual_Boy_games

List of Virtual Boy games

The Virtual Boy is a 32-bit tabletop video game console developed and designed by Nintendo, first released in Japan on July 21, 1995 and later in North America on August 14 of the same year. The following lists contains all of the games released for the Virtual Boy.
Originally unveiled at Nintendo's Shoshinkai Show in Japan on November 15, 1994 ...

#

22 games doesn't sound like much though

#

so there is only 1 conclusion to make here: CDi/3DO or the tamagotchi core

visual depot
#

TI-84+?

serene nebula
#

It’s a fun challenge considering the hardware and there’s some pretty impressive visual support that could be added to simulate the 3D. Seems like a fun project with some nice payoff.

manic valley
#

I’m not even gonna speculate bruhh!

azure niche
# visual depot TI-84+?

Was the TI-84+ more used than the TI-83+? The 83 seemed to be the standard for high schools in Puerto Rico.

serene nebula
#

so good!

visual depot
#

Depends on what class. For some types of math the ti-84 is needed since it added certain functions. But it's also better to have the top line for faster gaming 🤣

#

I had the ti-84 silver edition.

#

They later had a color edition but it didn't see much development in the homebrew scene because it locked things down pretty hard

manic valley
#

I have high hopes for tiny tank

#

And test drive 6

visual depot
gilded trellis
#

I would to see someday a ossc/emulator core, i know isn't a core itself, but for crt users it would be a giant step for these only emulated systems

visual depot
#

I'm confused. OSSC/emulator core?

#

What do you mean?

#

OSSC isn't used with a CRT

gilded trellis
#

Imagine Mame + Mister

#

Mame (only cpu)

visual depot
#

I mean, just buy a pi for emulators. The MiSTer isn't really designed for emulation

#

The De10-Nano's CPU is far less powerful than normal Pi's

gilded trellis
#

Obviously..

#

Mister has another advantages

visual depot
#

FPGA's can't really be used to house emulators or modern CPU's

gilded trellis
#

If Mister do OSSC, output, etc. no latency at all

visual depot
#

not the one in the De10-nano anyway

#

OSSC is a different device. I think you're confused

#

It doesn't have stuff from OSSC in the FPGA

solemn turtle
#

the pi isn't really fast enough to run MAME either

#

just get a small PC

abstract drift
#

the scaler in the mister is already better than an ossc

gilded trellis
#

Yeah, maybe..i just say Mister for inputs, outputs, etc. And a fork of mame with only emulating part

visual depot
#

I mean, the MiSTer is doing a better job than mame for the games it runs. They're copying the original boards

#

And it has way more features

summer sage
#

Super A'can or Cassio Loopy

gilded trellis
#

Ofc..but Mister can't do all systems

visual depot
#

no but it's a community project. Anyone is welcome to port a game to a core.

abstract drift
#

didn't someone already port mame to the arm cores anyway

gilded trellis
#

Mame is only a example, can be dreamcast emulator, etc.

abstract drift
#

its not really even a port just compile it

visual depot
#

I mean, yeah but it probably won't run well

abstract drift
#

its dumb but it exists

summer sage
#

even third gen software emulators dont run well on de10

#

sixth gen has no video hardware to use even

visual depot
#

MiSTer will never be able to handle anything past PS1.. even N64 is impossible

solemn turtle
#

The SOC in the DE-10 nano is nowhere near fast enough to run a Dreamcast emulator

gilded trellis
#

With projects like Groovymame, we have mame on a crt, but we have to deal with the OS, gpu cards, etc

abstract drift
#

if the SOC was about 10x more powerful it might be cool to do like, some emulators and feed them into the nice fpga scaler i guess

scenic reef
#

The rpi4 doesn't run Dreamcast at full speed and it's like a monster compared to the de10-nano 's SoC and it has a GPU on top of it

visual depot
#

but it kind of defeats the purpose. Software emulation introduces latency, and has its own issues

summer sage
#

you really need an actual proper pc for 6th gen and later to do well

solemn turtle
abstract drift
#

like i prefer the mister frontend to retroarch so if it somehow could be a frontend for software emulators too i'd do it. but the SOC is way too weak to be useful

summer sage
#

steam deck and pc-like consoles like recent xboxes seem to do well

visual depot
#

The MiSTer has little to no latency BECAUSE it doesn't use software emulation

#

You lose that when you go that route

gilded trellis
summer sage
#

fpga's main draw is efficiency

#

you can get a high amount of accuracy without having very powerful hardware

visual depot
summer sage
#

psx for instance, can't run super accurately on a pc because they just aren't powerful enough

#

it can get close enough, but mister can do it at a much lower level with more accuracy and a lot less power

gilded trellis
#

I don't understand...we only need ethernet to comunicate pc to MiSTer, right?

visual depot
#

no lol

abstract drift
#

take a rpi4 and feed it into a rt5x and you have basically what your talking about here

solemn turtle
gilded trellis
#

i don't want a rpi4, thx

visual depot
#

you need direct I/O. There is no interface on the board that can handle that bandwidth.

solemn turtle
#

it's definitely not hte right thing for MAME

gilded trellis
#

For 480p no much bandwith is needed

solemn turtle
visual depot
#

They were saying to have a custom FPGA designed as a PCI-e card for PC.... but it's really not going to help because Windows and other operating systems add their own lag. The MiSTer's operating system is detached from the FPGA-side, allowing the hardware to interface directly with the output. You can't change a PC to do that, nor can you update the MiSTer to be able to do software emulation without ruining the low latency benefits (because then the FPGA isn't used for direct output)

#

The FPGA is not a processor

slender junco
#

These Pi 4 users love to trash MiSTer users. I find it very interesting that they omit the ease of use with MiSTer in their stance when comparing it at cost level.

visual depot
#

it's more like a virtual board for hardware that can be programmed in

visual depot
#

that's a bit harsh

slender junco
#

I for one will pay for stability and accuracy

visual depot
#

It all comes down to a misunderstanding of what a FPGA is really

#

not everyone knows. I don't fault them for that

slender junco
#

I wasn’t putting it in the context of Sergi

solemn turtle
visual depot
visual depot
solemn turtle
#

this has been talked about quite a bit, but no one has actually started this project

#

to my knowledge

slender junco
visual depot
#

you're good. Might want to read first XD

slender junco
#

I’m going back to see what was said just popped in and did not review back far enough to actually see.

rare gyro
#

what a wild ride catching up with this channel 😄

slender junco
visual depot
#

Ntm modern CPU's are not really documented publicly, like these old chips in retro game consoles

#

which is kind of paramount to projects like this

rare gyro
#

even a pentium is too complex for a hobbyist I hear.

visual depot
#

yeah the later x86 chips really got extra complex for someone to understand at a hardware level

rare gyro
#

I think I remember reading that someone once did write a pentium in HDL, but it was an in house project at Intel

visual depot
#

especially when entering the x86_64

solemn turtle
#

it's not easy to hire someone either as people that understand it make a lot of money

summer sage
#

even 486 is extraordinarily complex compared to most of mister

#

the difference between the budget processors like 68000 and an x86 chip was huge

solemn turtle
#

x86 has boxed itself into a corner by making itself so complex

rare gyro
#

yeah, so a processor of this era would be lightyears of a stretch

summer sage
#

they were just expensive high powered processors

visual depot
#

I'd expect that if you understand microprocessor design, Intel and AMD and Nvidia DON'T want you working outside the company

#

Because they want to make sure you're working for them and don't leak shit

summer sage
#

ARM et al, but still it's work that needs large teams of people

visual depot
#

not many really know this stuff and work independently

#

I'd expect almost no-one really

summer sage
#

and specialized tools

#

the realistic line for fpga stuff if 5th/6th gen

#

a pentium probably could work but writing one is not easy

#

not sure if it would work on mister's hardware

rare gyro
#

I bet they have some kind of secret society among those qualified to work these kinds of jobs 🤣

summer sage
#

after this point the systems and chips get exponentially more dense and complex, so the labor to write them becomes extraordinary

visual depot
#

lol

summer sage
#

no

#

586 is probably the highest

visual depot
#

just don't want people getting the wrong idea

summer sage
#

but I mean, how hard is it to just make a vm for a core 2

visual depot
#

i3-5200 is not a reality xD

summer sage
#

I think at a point you have to say "why should I use an fpga for this?"

rare gyro
#

at some point maybe one would have to leverage some kind of AI or automaton to develop such complex cores

summer sage
#

it starts to lack sense

#

use the right tools for the right jobs

#

fpga is good because it can do older systems accurately and have low latency with low power

#

later systems benefit a lot from software and modern hardware

gilded trellis
summer sage
#

pc in particular you can just make VM's and things

#

what do you gain from fpga from later things

#

they were all complex, wrapped, and frame buffered

rare gyro
gilded trellis
#

yeah, i know isn't a core itself

rare gyro
#

I would be interested in following it if someone starts such a project

summer sage
#

you can just use a scaler for that

rare gyro
#

yeah, the retrotink5x is about the price of a MiSTer kit, and anyway you would want a separate device for that

gilded trellis
#

Idea is not to use anything from the OS for input/output

#

With a scaler you have the same problem..gpu frame buffers, etc.

rare gyro
#

I'm pretty sure retrotink5x is fpga based

gilded trellis
#

I'm talking about emulation without video

slender junco
gilded trellis
#

emulation depends of libs, sdl, vulkan etc. latency problems, etc.

rare gyro
#

I really can't add to the conversation, and, well, this isn't the right channel for it

gilded trellis
#

haha, i think a lot of cores out there..is only one more idea

rare gyro
#

Anyway, it was probably I who asked if Robert announced a new project already.. Perhaps because I misunderstood someone. He probably would have mentioned it on Patreon first.

gilded trellis
#

I am sure that what he does will be to everyone's liking.

ivory verge
#

According to Patreon

frail storm
ivory verge
#

We don't now 😁

rare gyro
#

by that time he'll probably have a research oriented software emulator

frail storm
#

I'd wish it to be Jaguar, a new 386/486, 3DO or his own take on Saturn

#

Just speculating here!

#

There isn't much more that has a big reward of games for the effort

rare gyro
#

hmm, I can think of one, but I'm not going to jinx it

frail storm
summer sage
rare gyro
#

Sorry I can't 😅

summer sage
#

a software emulator regulates itself based on frames, typically, and outputs a texture to render

ivory verge
frail storm
#

Yeah! Do it man! Pull the trigger! Grab the snake! Roll the boulder!

summer sage
#

why would you want Robert to make saturn while sergey is actively working on it?

#

that's a weird thing to want

rare gyro
#

Yeah Robert didn't start the PSX until he heard that no one will be doing it

#

which later turned out to be untrue, but still this is a better outcome

frail storm
#

Oh, good question. You are right, wouldn't be a good thing to do.

#

Now that I think of it... I hope Sergey is alright. Things are hairy over there.

#

@rare gyro CDI...? 😄

rare gyro
#

On one hand, he's not near the frontlines, so his town won't be targeted for any attack.. on the other hand, there's no telling who's occupying his town and what kind of people they are. so... 🙏

iron abyss
#

Pornographic Mahjong

crisp shale
abstract drift
#

serious question why are so many people interested in this alien bug?

ivory verge
#

for fun 😉

abstract drift
#

fair enough, its an interesting mystery

#

is there a massive alien resurrection community hanging out somewhere though?

#

thats fascinating stuff btw Barone

ivory verge
#

I will say frankly that I have never been a fan of this game, but this is an interesting case

abstract drift
#

seems like every time we discuss it to death, fresh people arrive to discuss it further 😄

iron abyss
#

If you figure it out it unlocks a secret treasure hidden by the Freemasons

abstract drift
#

i keep saying we need to track down the original devs and get them to explain themselves

#

are they on twitter or something

crisp shale
# abstract drift serious question why are so many people interested in this alien bug?

I honestly came late to the party. When I began to use the PSX core, the bug had already been reported for quite some time.
I briefly worked as a tester many years ago, and I playtested a few games before, but mostly Mega Drive-related; homebrew/indie projects.
If there is a mysterious bug, I usually have an itch to try and find what's going on or a more complete picture of the situation.
And I'm an Alien fan, I like the first two movies and most of the games.
Alien Resurrection wasn't a big commercial success at the time but it's usually well regarded in retro gaming communities nowadays, due to the pioneerism of its control scheme in the context of console FPS and its good graphics.

solemn turtle
visual depot
# gilded trellis I hope I haven't offended anyone, indeed my idea is based on using MiSTer as a k...

Just want to clarify. Nobody is mad at you. 🙂 The idea is neat. I'd love CRT support for modern emulators. The issue really is that it would require something else to do it. MiSTer's implementation has no code or structure that would work with a PC. That would require something completely different. It's not impossible if someone develops a different project entirely for it, and I'd love to see that kind of PC feature happen myself. But yeah, the MiSTer boards itself will not enable that to be possible unfortunately.

visual depot
#

would need a brand new device for that, I know.... but it's an idea

summer sage
#

it kind of is

visual depot
#

I mean, technically the RT5X can take a 720p output and downconvert it to work on a CRT

summer sage
#

emualtors dont run in real time

#

it would be nearly impossible to make them do so

#

they run fast and dump their video into a buffer or texture

visual depot
#

Yeah I'm not saying from the emulator perspective

#

I mean just the video signal

#

so not really native

#

that's why I said "rudimentary"

summer sage
#

then whatever renders them has to wait for the next refresh cycle to swap buffers or you get tearing

visual depot
#

yeah....

summer sage
#

so things like mister's 10 lines of latency get kind of hard

#

or even regulating the speed of producing frames

abstract drift
#

it's probably impossible on any modern gpu really

#

its kind of like 21st century beam-racing

#

i don't think any modern gpu driver has a mode where you just shovel pixels out the hdmi port and pinky swear to deliver them on time

visual depot
# visual depot I mean, technically the RT5X can take a 720p output and downconvert it to work o...

now that I think about it, this might be what Sergi missed. The RT5X and OSSC have one major difference compared to the MiSTer... video input. They have pushed all their resources to convert signals produced by OTHER devices, leaving much more room to do such... The MiSTer has to scale AND generate the games, and the games are all generated at their native resolution. The RT5X has the advantage of taking in a higher resolution, and it enables you to downconvert to 240p.... the MiSTer can't downconvert signals. It never has to

abstract drift
#

mister can downconvert, people do it to run pc (like ao486) games on 15khz crts sometimes

wooden rose
#

I wish there was an open-source video capture card project

#

Something to kill the AVermedia hegemony

visual depot
#

but I think it's a lot less involved than 720p -> 240p

#

At least I'd expect so

visual depot
abstract drift
#

it doesn't look very good

visual depot
#

I want to play my computer stuff on my CRT haha

#

I guess that makes sense

abstract drift
#

i think there's a big thread about it on the mister forum if you want to try it though

wooden rose
#

Afaik it's just running an output mode with lower res than the core

#

I think

abstract drift
#

yeah

visual depot
#

My roommate has what I believe to be a PC CRT monitor downstairs

#

I'm not sure what kind but it might be 31kHz

wooden rose
#

Try some PS1 on it

visual depot
#

VGA only

abstract drift
#

anything with a vga connector is 31khz generally

visual depot
#

neat

wooden rose
#

I watched some people try out CRTs for modern gaming recently, saying they were pretty pleasantly surprised by how nice it is

visual depot
#

oh you meant my CRT?

#

I play PS1 on it all the time xD

#

PS2 even

#

and I just got my Wii fixed

#

they all look phenomenal

abstract drift
#

the motion clarity of even the most basic-ass 1990s pc crt still destroys everything on the market today

visual depot
#

hmmm I guess I'll have to take a look

#

if it works

abstract drift
#

it kind of broke my brain when i finally went back to one

visual depot
#

I haven't probably seen one in person since I was like 5

#

lol

#

would have been 1994 or 1995

abstract drift
#

like at a high refresh rate, they look ridiculous

visual depot
#

trying to figure out where I'd put the damn thing lol

abstract drift
#

but even at 60hz like most mister stuff its remarkable

visual depot
#

but I think I have an idea. but I need a small stand to do it... .hmmm

#

anything particular to know about VGA cables?

abstract drift
#

dont overtighten the little screws

visual depot
#

good to know

#

plastic weak after that long?

abstract drift
#

no, sometimes you can end up unscrewing the bolt from the thing your connecting to

visual depot
#

ohshit lol

abstract drift
#

like if you screw in too tight, then it sort of bonds and when you unscrew ... yeah

visual depot
#

lovely lol

#

@abstract drift

#

Woops meant this for #1047332497492553799

hidden prism
# summer sage emualtors dont run in real time

Not to be comic book guy, but with run ahead capabilities, that trades input+compute+display latency for just input+display latency. With USB fast polling at 1khz, then it’s the analog to USB latency internal to the controller. I’m not saying it’s utopian, or cycle-level accuracy and CRT quality/timing isn’t important, but it’s not quite as reduced (in my mind) as you were making out

summer sage
#

i'm not particularly starry eyed about run ahead. I understand how it works and I guess it's better than nothing, but I am way too much of a purist to say it's a great solution. In addition, you have audio to deal with. Most emulators will try to resample it and shift the pitch to match the slightly incorrect framerates, and you add typically 100ms of latency to it there as well.

#

if you're outputting to a crt at least, running in real time does become pretty important

#

otherwise you're just adding a buffer's worth of lag

hard laurel
#

Going off topic potentially but my only concern with MiSTer is that cores seem like they are "Done" but there are still some outstanding issues which affect how accurate the Core is at representing the system in question. Like a couple of the Genesis / MegaDrive issues I reported some time ago and a few Master System ones.

#

That aside, its one of the best things I have bought Retro Gaming Wise in a long time.

summer sage
#

neither the SMS or Genesis core really has an 'owner' per se, so it's whoever gets to the bugs when they want to. Genesis is in a particularly odd state since sergey has been working on redoing a lot of it between his writing the saturn core

#

sms sort of suffers from a lack of developer enthusiasm

hard laurel
#

Its a shame really that is the case with the SMS. Its a great system 🙂

summer sage
#

to each their own, there is a thread for the core though

#

in the open-cores-forum channel

hard laurel
#

I did put some comments on the SMS core to try and bring that back on topic

summer sage
#

#1050060531458908193

hidden prism
summer sage
#

you can't because it runs at the wrong speed

#

you're beholden to the speed of the video hardware not the system

#

otherwise you get tearing

hidden prism
#

… except in VRR displays down to ~45hz

#

There are people in that community that care about the same accuracy things and are doing good work all the time.

summer sage
#

yes, you can do more with those if they cooperate

#

at the end of the day you have a lot to deal with

#

even if it's alsa or the windows audio subsystem

hidden prism
#

yup. Making MIDI work across Linux and Windows in FreeSCI in 1999, and later in ScummVM , required a lot of trial and error

summer sage
#

as much as emulation in some corners has improved, I have been consistently dissapointed by how much it hasn't in many respects

#

the best emulators of a lot of systems still aren't very good imho

#

a few of the most major systems are improving

hidden prism
#

being accurate in statements about competing approaches is important for folks that are less technical, so they don’t get incorrect ideas are hard versus soft limits

summer sage
#

I think I was very accurate

hidden prism
#

what is a current limitation versus what is physical limitation until the end of time

#

ok.

summer sage
#

I think it's understood i'm not talking about the state of technology in 2150 if that's what you mean

hidden prism
#

Ok.

ornate tree
#

"appropriate DAQ" is a little tough because CVBS is baseband so most SDR gear is out, but a modified Domesday Duplicator or CX23883 card have been used

quick gyro
tropic stratus
#

in any case, thank you very much!

visual depot
#

Yeah I just finished reading it. Wish the original guy would have stuck around to see it was indeed a game bug lol

willow sundial
#

I have several psx and ps2. Might test the game out with a disc and see what happens on a few different models. This is such a interesting bug

tropic stratus
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it's most likely not, Barone send me some more infos with footage from different consoles showing different behavior than the core

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not only for the door, also for some sound voices

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as the door opening is related to voices playing or not, this is likely the same problem