Weird ppl arguing below xd

[pulsar frigate]

what about more collection buffs?

[daring sand]

All or most of these cards target specific collections

Planisphere was a viable option in mono space or even WTS, now just weaker than python and has conditions python doesn't (I'm thinking +10 to all space, another +15 if your deck has only space)

Statue is just really weak in comparison, it was a fine choice in 6/6/4/2 decks even after the nerf, now it's just worse than python except in a pure 6/6/6 which is not popular nor strong anymore (just rebuff it to +21 or even +23)

Telescopium, capuchin, saga, shogi and Hannibal just have too weak buffs to make it into a deck over python

[zenith shell]

sol is literally played alongside python, it doesn't deserve a buff
also there are countless other cards that could fit into this category, so wouldn't it be easiest to just nerf python?

not to say none of those cards could do with a buff, but if this is the reason you're giving for all of them I think that says more about python than those cards

[daring sand]

I think python is fine personally, and it seems like avid wants it to do what it does which is provide blanket support to all the non science decks so I'd rather look at old cards that are already weak and make them competitive options. my intention is not to kill python but to allow other cards to stand with it instead

[zenith shell]

can you explain why you think python is not overpowered

[daring sand]

its just a natural progression of the game

[zenith shell]

But they could just not progress in this way specifically

They could actually maintain some degree of balance, for example

Python's deck buff is similar to those that buff a specific collection, which is at best around 100 cards. Python buffs nearly 5000 cards.

[daring sand]

the issue it not python itself, but the decks python is strongest in. if the counters to those decks had stronger buffers, they could compete directly against rainbow. I think crown and retro are more problematic because how strong perm power is in the later stages of the game

[zenith shell]

I'm not saying they're not issues, but I think python is the biggest one at the moment.

[daring sand]

I dont agree at all which is fine

dont have to agree on everything

[zenith shell]

Also especially with retro the fact that it's permanent means literally nothing

[daring sand]

it means you can play it round 4 and have it return at almost full strength. obviously won't be nearly as strong but the perm power sticking is a big thing, more impactful than people realize

[zenith shell]

For crown yes, but retro builds mostly in rounds 4 and 5

Anyway this is not the point of the discussion

[daring sand]

if your answer to "buff old cards" is just "nerf python" I'm afraid this is not the topic for that

[wide fractal]

stellar evolution, with or without python this card is horrible.

I don't think the statue of liberty deserves a buff.

witching hour, could have a stronger buff and also buff rites and rituals.

[granite orchid]

Wrong statue
The one should be buffed is statue of unity

[sweet kiln]

Before that perhaps ninety nines

[sweet kiln]

The reason why all cards that were never considered weak until python is not due to the natural progression of the game. I understand that power creeping is a thing, but python goes way beyond that, they created a card that fits anywhere and is better than any other and further progresses the power creeping of the game by an excessive amount

[granite orchid]

I still don't think I'll like a python nerf
It can't change the meta
They should buff cards that got outperformed by python

[sweet kiln]

That would be like 1000 cards

Even atomic theory now gets often outperformed

[granite orchid]

How?
It buff 20 python only 16

[sweet kiln]

Python doesn’t have 1 science restriction

Can be played with basic

Cats and gods can now use dove and lolcat and the one that needs both, and meow wars

Yeah on its own it isn’t as good ofc

But it allows for stronger decks

[granite orchid]

It's fine
Great to see some deck like birds or butterflies be more playable cause they can't fit atomic

[sweet kiln]

That’s true, but it’s still too powerful imo. Now decks have no reason whatsoever to use atomic

DNA sitting in the corner not getting used regardless

[granite orchid]

Mammals still better with atomic

I won't use 2 science slots for them cause 1 mammal can do like 200 power

[sweet kiln]

Yeah there are exceptions, marsupials too imo

[sweet kiln]

A python nerf isn’t really aimed at changing the meta imo, but to allow other cards to be used in deckbuilding. Just like the original post says, it completely outclasses everything else. But I think a nerf is more ideal than buffing 1k cards

[granite orchid]

I think cards that got outperformed by python are very weak now and they should be buffed
Except planisphere I think it still better cause it gains all space buff

[sweet kiln]

Unless it’s in collection buff no card really outperforms a generic deck buff. Even planisphere decks don’t perform that well anymore

[granite orchid]

After the fomalhaut nerf they don't give space any good buff
That's why space can't perform well

And the fomalhaut nerf is really unnecessary as well

[sweet kiln]

100%. Space only works in turtle. And it’s the worst engine rn with autotune imo

[mental adder]

Uhm actually 🤓

Nvm you're right

[sweet kiln]

Even a buff of 20 to a specific collection is worse rn. Because python buffs also your deck buffers

[granite orchid]

That's why limpic nowadays buff 22 for collection and must be same album(spotted lake and friedrick serturner)

[sweet kiln]

Only really works for science tho

This is how all my decks look rn 🤌

And on top of python tennin decks. Literally like 8/15 decks use it

[granite orchid]

Same energy

[sweet kiln]

This is why I’m saying it needs a nerf. I would rather that than a buff to every card

[granite orchid]

That's sea peoples actually

[sweet kiln]

You’re just flexing sea peoples atp

[granite orchid]

But the tennin one is really op

Delete tennin final answer

[sweet kiln]

Tennin isn’t the problem anymore rn. It’s just a good card that further imoroves what was already meta before. I think avid doesn’t wanna nerf python because it would upset those who paid for it

[granite orchid]

If tennin is not the problem it won't be meta

[sweet kiln]

It is part of it, rulers, bothrio, python altogether are the problem (and sigil)

[granite orchid]

Before tennin heimdall is not meta

After the bothrio and cao pi rainbow problem solved
But they add tennin and ruined the game again

[sweet kiln]

How did they solve rainbow?

[granite orchid]

The bothrio and cao pi nerf
Back in the day they nerfed half of twt deck

[sweet kiln]

But most people still used liberty. And even then it just made it weaker, didn’t completely take it off the meta (which is fine). But they just went from one meta to another that’s very similar

[granite orchid]

The liberty one is balanced without tennin and sigi and they add a lot of rainbow cards to make 6 arts become good

[sweet kiln]

Nobody would use it without sigi

[granite orchid]

Sigi is so broken tbh
Play it in turn 1 and it kill all your opponent cards

[sweet kiln]

Literally like 2.5 Tunguska

At least qe requires 18 science

[eager thistle]

Even if they buff those cards, python will still be a necessity in a lot of those decks. It's way too strong for how easy it is to plop into any deck

[eager thistle]

This perfectly showcases the issue. There's literally no reason to not use python when you can

[eager thistle]

The difference with this is that Sea Peoples (and Tennin) forces you to think about the deck you're making, and make hard choices. Adding Python to your deck requires no thought.

[granite orchid]

Sea people yeah tennin nah you can throw any 18 broken cards that fit 5 albums

It's fine to have a filler like python
I agree it's good
But what's the problem if that card fit any deck cause it doesn't make anything broken

[sweet kiln]

It makes deck that can’t fit python incredibly weak

[eager thistle]

I'd say that Python is the main reason Tennin goodstuff is so popular. It's effectively another free deck engine with the usability of a filler card

[sweet kiln]

All mono space, arts, history etc suffer incredibly from it

[granite orchid]

I wouldn't
Delete tennin and no one play that stupid deck

[sweet kiln]

Ofc but it would move to rainbow

Removing the card that’s the base of the deck doesn’t mean that other cards that carry the deck are not the problem

[granite orchid]

Rainbow will be worse cause heimdall doesn't let you use 2 holds

And much less power

[eager thistle]

Remember that SoL, Eros, Autotune, and World Tutmrtle have all dominated the meta at some point. The issue isn't with the deck engines, but the ease of use of strong filler cards

[granite orchid]

Just because they add sigi so those broken legendaries can work

[daring sand]

Yo guys I'll be real here, some of you are arguing in circles. It's pointless. If you don't agree with the sentiment of this topic please create your own

[sweet kiln]

You’re right sorry about that

[daring sand]

Y'all have completely detracted from a conversation I wanted to be open to the devs to look into and now this entire thread looks like a complete mess

[sweet kiln]

Also telescopium does NOT need a buff. A 15 deck wide buff from a epic is more than enough

The only part of the discussion that matches with this suggestion is whether or not we agree about the buff on those cards without a python nerf

[daring sand]

Especially cringe that people I have blocked chiming in like they aren't a nuisance

Anyway I'm deleting this post since y'all have made it your own thread

[sweet kiln]

But wouldn’t you think it would be better to balance python rather than buff every other card in the game?

[daring sand]

Weird ppl arguing below xd

[sweet kiln]

All those cards that have been pushed out were not bad or weak prior to that

[keen snow]

I just read all this. Wow lol

[teal shoal]

97 is impressive in suggestions

[granite orchid]

At least avid will check this