Card Rarity Discrepancies - similar card abilities

[cunning token]

This post is going to talk about the instances where card rarities don’t make sense between cards with similar or the exact same effect. There are multiple instances of this throughout the game. This post is going to use the more extreme example of Testudo Formation vs The Crown Jewels.

Testudo is a limited epic that’s a 3/27 with the return “your cards wherever they are, gain +48 and cost +3 this round” and Crown Jewels is an Ultra Fusion that’s a 6/50 with the return “your History cards, wherever they are, gain +30 and cost +3 for 3 turns”

Testudo gives an energy:power ratio of 1:16 while Crown Jewels is only 1:10. Testudo is cheaper at 3 energy to Crown Jewels 6 energy. Testudo is a limited Epic, easier to obtain than an Ultra Fusion (typically). Testudo affects all your cards while Crown Jewels only affects History.
The only thing Crown Jewels has over Testudo is the duration of 3 turns to that of a round (2 turns at most) So Testudo is just better than Crown Jewels in all ways but 1.

If you are going to have cards with similar or exact same effects, than keep the rarities similar to make sense. Like how Shrew and Horseshoe Bat are literally the exact same rarity with slight variation in cost, power, and ability length.

Yes technically a person could option an ultra fusion faster than a limited epic by rushing the fusion ingredients, but it is also just a lot easier to simply trade for a limited epic instead

[novel plume]

first, testudo is much harder to get than a typical limepic and I'd say it's harder to get than crown jewels
second, crown jewels is terrible and deserves a buff
third, rarity should not be a measure of power in my opinion as it leads to huge amounts of meaningless pack filler and a bloated card pool

[wheat lodge]

Yeah, what they said

[sick smelt]

Agree with the above here, in a world where limlegs and mythics are the most powerful cards, it can feel very inaccessable to create a good deck as a new player

[wheat lodge]

But also I do agree with your point

[cunning token]

I agree that rarity shouldn’t be a measure of power. But there are instances where the it feels a bit strange how good some effects are when compared to that of others with similar effects. The idea being to make the rarities make sense. They don’t need to be exact, but like in this case the difference between a limited epic and an ultra fusion is quite a difference.

The don’t need to match rarities but just make the discrepancy less jarring

[wheat lodge]

Lief Erikson, a limleg, is pure garbage, and Chaos, a mythic, has a main ability worse than literal basic commons

Yet on the flip side, there's normal fusions, like Great Barrier Reef, that rivaled the strength of Pre-Buff Kraken

[novel plume]

I think higher rarity cards should have more unique and exciting effects, rather than just more powerful effects

[cunning token]

Yes

[wheat lodge]

And they should be decent at the least.
Not comparable to, or even worse than basics, like Cricket, 100m sprint, or Lief Erikson, or Pillars of creation

[sick smelt]

if you want to see some new unique effects, let me know what you think on my post, its just above this one

[novel plume]

Which is why I have recently started to be more critical of cards like multiverse even though I made that effect, it's just generic power with no particular deckbuilding motivation

[novel plume]

Buff them, then buff all the equally useless low rarity cards similarly

[wheat lodge]

Basically, I agree, in that Cards should be fitting of their rarity. Mythics should feel like mythics. They should be strong. And basics should be much weaker, or average

[sick smelt]

agreed that chaos needs a serious buff

[novel plume]

Something like flood is a well designed mythic in my opinion

Also chaos is decent with its secret effect

[wheat lodge]

It has a decent secret ability.

Keyword: secret @novel plume

[leaden bough]

I am here to say Hi guys

[novel plume]

Hi sloth

[wheat lodge]

Because If you ain't part of one of CUE's social media communities, or don't go to the Fandom, you ain't ever finding Chaos' secret ability, unless you're extremely lucky

[novel plume]

I agree that it should be visible, but that's a whole different topic of conversation

Generally I think secret abilities should be reserved for those that no one will ever use competitively

Otherwise everyone will complain that it's a bug

[wheat lodge]

Yeah, Secret abilities should be a bit different. Like the combo between Philosopher's stone, and what's his name. A small, decent bonus

[novel plume]

Just look at supermassive black hole and cydonia

[wheat lodge]

At the least, secret abilities shouldn't be better than main abilities

[leaden bough]

So i dont think rarity should define the strength of the card however it should define the flexibility of the card

[wheat lodge]

I mean, in every game, rarity defines strength a bit. And in CUE I think to an extent it should.

Mythics shouldn't be useless, and outperformed by basics

[leaden bough]

Example i like to use is cosmic dust vs dragon king

They technically do the same things

Vut how they do it makes the difference

[wheat lodge]

Yeah. Although they're only 1 rarity apart

[novel plume]

Cosmic dust is basically a ppt card that you cycle. Isn't dragon king a hold card?

[cunning token]

It is

[leaden bough]

The difference in flexibility isnt that big

[wheat lodge]

Comic dust is 1 power perm to all your cards wherever they are, for draw, play, and return.

[leaden bough]

Basically both give in ppt format 9 ppt then 18 ppt then 27 ppt

One does it by having to be pkayed the other vy holding it

Just giving background

[novel plume]

I see, you're saying they're similar power level but fill different roles

[wheat lodge]

And One only buffs your cards in hand, while the other is universal

[wheat lodge]

Yes

[leaden bough]

Yes but they give the same result

[wheat lodge]

Yeah

[leaden bough]

I like the example of fatalism and familiar

As well both provide critical buff but familiar is more flexible with whom it can be paired with at rhe cost of power

+100 only your collection
+70 your album

[novel plume]

For an example of what I mean about unnecessary nerfs to common cards, I'll take a bias-free approach and look at the latest example, vaporwave. Why not just double the effect? It won't break the game or anything, just let people enjoy the card

[leaden bough]

We can work wirh the idea of flexibility to the extent we can sacrifice power or give more cost to show the same potential jusr different ways

[leaden bough]

What upsets me is the approach of avid to balances.

They dont want to disrupt and change to many things to jot make drastic changes

But every week we get at least one cards that pushes that

This are example of things i don't like to see

Independent of how old a card is, rarity, or other concepts

[tacit ember]

And then they also just add the same ability to cards, like the new Lungfish and Imhotep.

One example of different rarities roughly same effect is Amber Room and Flying Cloud.

[leaden bough]

For me not so bad just make the difference in base stats make sense

[novel plume]

Superegg is well balanced, urchin is mediocre, runner eggs is okay just for being an egg, others are awful and desperately need buffs to ever see play

[leaden bough]

Superegg is not balanced

[solemn meadow]

Not even all the examples

[novel plume]

Why? I can name many stronger cards than it

[leaden bough]

3/66

The rest have the same power but detrimental effecgs

[novel plume]

Sure, 3/66 is pretty big
But antimatter is 3/150 with an effectively neutral effect

[novel plume]

66 is nothing in comparison

[solemn meadow]

Cheetah is 3/88 with no ability

[novel plume]

Exactly

[solemn meadow]

Sure superegg doesn't even have an ability that hits itself but that's besides the point

[novel plume]

Essentially the issue with the cards you sent isn't superegg being too strong, it's the others being too weak

[solemn meadow]

Is it though

[leaden bough]

Yes but the bar shouldn't be set comparing to cards whobare also out the loop but majority

If we push the bar to match outliers that stand out we leave behind the reason to balance

What i am saying is for what the cards in their group show, superegg should be matching them

[novel plume]

Chrono is effectively 4/100+
Even something like ark, an old card, is 2/90ish

[wheat lodge]

It's both. Cards too strong, and too weak.

Bring weak cards up, and push OP cards down.
Reduce the gap. Not too much, but by a fair amount

[novel plume]

3/66 is nothing special

Just because it's in the base stats rather than the effect

[novel plume]

I agree, but superegg is not a problem card

[solemn meadow]

Avid is inconsistent in pumping out cards

[leaden bough]

Yes but you are justifying it using the meta, overuse, or overpower cards.

Not thr majority of cards

[novel plume]

Ark is far from meta and it dwarfs superegg

[wheat lodge]

Yeah I didn't say anything about superegg.
Although it is a bit strong for only a basic epic

[novel plume]

Why can't epics be strong though?

[leaden bough]

Which pulls my statement back I don't like to see cards like this cause it devalues the idea of havibg similar strength just different flexibility

[solemn meadow]

Have you seen the last time epics were strong

[novel plume]

Beowulf meta? Somehow I don't think cards on the level of superegg can cause something that big again

[leaden bough]

Now this is an extreme but your argument is currently

Well @solemn meadow killed 7 people
So is fine if @wheat lodge kills 2

[solemn meadow]

Only 7?

[novel plume]

Fair enough
But when it comes to competitive play, no deck other than eggs will use superegg

[wheat lodge]

Why you bringing me into this? 💀☠️☠️

[leaden bough]

I know your secrets

[leaden bough]

Like i said the fact is more narrowed down does mean that superegg is exchanging is flexibility for more power

[wheat lodge]

Hey, the only "people" I've killed are the Automatons. If you even consider them People

[leaden bough]

Just cause tou consider the world a simulation and us machines doesn't mean we don't stand on a the moral concepts of your simulation

[novel plume]

I agree and I like that

[wheat lodge]

That's a lot of big words for someone in 500Kg bomb range
⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️

[leaden bough]

I have surrounded myself with dogs... you wouldn't dare

I know not just your secrets but your weaknesses

You are a monster just not that mosnter

Oh shoot i need to watch dexter, not sure if the show still going strong with the new recap

[solemn meadow]

Can we talk about Tunguska and Roanoke

[leaden bough]

We can and i am not bigfest fan

[novel plume]

I think tunguska is fine, roanoke is a little strong but there are bigger problems to deal with first

[leaden bough]

Thats fair but we just talking stuff that aint right

[wheat lodge]

You're right.. I can't hurt the dogs...
Switches to Orbital Railcannon stratagem (so accurate, it won't hit the dogs, but will deliver democracy unto you)

[novel plume]

It would have been nice if the two effects of roanoke were, you know, actually different

[wheat lodge]

No way, Gambling reference in CUE 🤯

(Black, Jack)

[leaden bough]

Ah but that is why i made sure to get a little girls heart transplanted into me...

If i die she will never have her heart back...

Is a weak attempt i know

Vut all i could think off

[novel plume]

hey I didn't know that card existed but it's pretty cool, I like the versatility

[solemn meadow]

It's such a good card until you keep drawing it in r1t1

[wheat lodge]

Yeah it is.
We got better, prosthetic hearts to give her! Raaah!!

[leaden bough]

Oh i bring it forward for a reason

[wheat lodge]

Me when I draw Primordial Black hole R2T1 😀

[leaden bough]

You guys see the freaking pattern

[wheat lodge]

Similar, but a bit different too

[leaden bough]

Same strength vut change in flexibility

Then their is this guy

[wheat lodge]

Same power potential, but much different usages.

[leaden bough]

Yep even if we give trailing or more benchmarks to our commons

To limit them to be as free as our lim legs

That is fine

The issue becomes when we break the mold... superegg

[wheat lodge]

Yeah, this is one of the reasons I think Avid should slow down card releases.

Take a moment. Let collectors take a breath, and make sure that the cards you're releasing are actually decent, and not similar to 30 other cards

Because when you shovel out 20+ cards a week, quality control drops a bit

[leaden bough]

I dont mind the similarities so long as they open new doors

[solemn meadow]

I mean they pumped out so many cards they accidentally released the same card twice

[wheat lodge]

And they also released 2 terrible mythics

[solemn meadow]

It's like that one ad commercial

Set it and forget it

[leaden bough]

I need 1 dark photons to make it good

[solemn meadow]

Oh yeah