Lock cards

[night crescent]

CUE is deck building strategy game... Lock is a strategy against strategy (all of them), so is against the very core of the game, I think it should be much more nerfed ...

[subtle crown]

Game needs more counter play and game mechanics not less

[barren tiger]

Every lock card should be nerfed like they did with inflation

[mortal valley]

Every offensive Lock card has been nerfed some multiple times

[random basalt]

Can't deny Alice Blue needs altering though. I'm for lock, but come on, it's absurd.

[limber whale]

Beo can never viable again

[fluid path]

Delete this post

Take it back

Take it down

[random basalt]

What about the other decks that need epics?

Lock is fine, but one card has dramatically altered the game and creativity has suffered

This isn't an ID Theft moment, this is losing the game

[obsidian sky]

I agree with OP and gav here
Lock is fundamentally a destructive archetype in that its goal is to prevent the other side from playing. That is inherently anti-fun and a driver of people quitting. it also by its design restricts card design and meta, Alice Blue being a key example. Alice's ability to completely shut down any Epic decks essentially excludes them from any future meta, severely limiting the paths that Avid can do down for card design in the future.

That being said, lock as a game mechanic isn't inherently bad. It allows for restrictions on your own cards via self-lock or disruption via temporarily locking the opponent.

But as it stands now, you only need 3-4 lock cards to shut down an opposing deck, regardless of what that deck may be

Or you have like Alice, which singlehandedly shuts down epic decks

Lock has a place as a counter or disruption effect, but the current reality is lock is incredibly overtuned. The lock cards that currently exist are more than capable of blindly solitairing into wins no mater the opposing strategy, or shutting down entire swaths of strategies with a single card. This inherently reduces the diversity of the game, which is its main selling point

[kindred hollow]

Another aspect of most lock cards is that depending entirely on luck, they can either be underwhelming or completely game-winning, which isn't particularly healthy imo

The only lock card I'd actually consider well designed is Loch Ness Monster, which is funny because I've heard it was also the first lock card

Even so, lock is just not a fun mechanic. I'm for disruption existing (inflation should be viable, its existence can be prepared for in deck building unlike lock) but current lock cards either put your turns at the mercy of rng or are alice (do I need to say more about alice)

[obsidian sky]

this is true, but the "luck" involved can be heavily mitigated due to the sheer power of some lock cards (Alice, Mantis, Milk Cap)

[kindred hollow]

which just makes it even worse

[obsidian sky]

The funny thing is if Alice was like "lock 2 epics in the opponent's hand for 1 turn" I would consider it not only balanced, but a healthy counter in the game

See Inland Tiapan

We need more lock cards that reward you for matchup prepping without instantly killing said matchup

[kindred hollow]

debatable because so many decks like epics anyway, but I see your point

I still think alice should hit your own epics so you can't just toss it into any deck

[obsidian sky]

Which is the main issue for me: all lock cards rn are either insane regardless of matchup and devolve into solitiare (Mantis, Milk Cap) or instantly kill their matchup which also makes them braindead (Alice)

the risk/reward just isn't there

[kindred hollow]

I've been saying mantis is broken for a while

Long before stuff like alice

Honestly I haven't played much lately so can't really comment on alice, but for it to be mentioned more than mantis it must be unbearable

[obsidian sky]

Alice isn't used much rn, but the threat of it still looms

and I've seen the results of that threat pushing away cool decks like Occult and promoting legend spam decks

[fluid path]

Lock stays. Cope harder

[kindred hollow]

Please explain why you think lock is good for the game

[subtle crown]

lets see a card that no lock deck plays? lol

They should have made alice an epic and that would have been an easy small nerf, delaying it a little more from coming down... thoughts?

[obsidian sky]

Why play a balanced card when you have so many broken ones?

[subtle crown]

Taipan needs a buff honestly

[arctic eagle]

Exactly. That's the mindset the current state of the game perpetuates and promotes. Don't use skill, don't think about how your deck is composed, just cram in every meta and you'll win, and if you don't, you'll always lose

[kindred hollow]

@fluid path sorry for the ping but I really want a good answer to this

[fluid path]

Really

[kindred hollow]

Yes

I want to understand your argument

[fluid path]

The alternative is unbearable top meta with no way to beat it

[kindred hollow]

Fine then, what if inflation was viable instead

I want to see why you think lock is a fair and healthy form of disruption

And currently I don't

[fluid path]

You have to imagine a world without lock

To see why it's better than less mechanics

[obsidian sky]

I have had success with a lot of decks recently without even touching lock, meta is nowhere near unbearable or unbeatable as people say and we don’t need unfun stun as a replacement which would end up being worse for the game’s health.

[kindred hollow]

No mantis to worry about, no stupid cockatrice 50/50s...

Sounds great

[obsidian sky]

I live in a world without lock 95% of the time in DI and I’m happy

[arctic eagle]

Space Boxing and lock already exist

[obsidian sky]

I can use different decks every week, be creative, have strategy and counterplay

[arctic eagle]

Leagues be like
Use skill ❌
Spam ✅

[obsidian sky]

Space boxing isn’t even than unbeatable, there are decks like highroll Mammals with decent matchup into it

[obsidian sky]

I try to make a new deck weekly

[fluid path]

Lock is not up for discussion nor debate this whole channel is pointless

They will not remove it

[kindred hollow]

I want to point out that you are the only defender of lock here

[fluid path]

There's no way Avid would go backwards

[obsidian sky]

They actually aren’t but they’re the only one who doesn’t havd issue with ANY lock card
Gav and play0333 like lock but don’t like certain lock cards

[arctic eagle]

Using some lock is fine.

Making a deck that's nothing but lock spam is where it gets problematic

[fluid path]

What about all the people who enjoy lock like myself. You never took a real survey you just have personal bias

[obsidian sky]

I specifically have a problem with Mantis and Alice, 2 lock cards that are unreasonably oppressive for little effort or skill

[fluid path]

That's why they exist, shinigami tier game changers

[kindred hollow]

Fair enough, they're just less vocal about it

[arctic eagle]

I mean, Mantis, every time I try to use it I only ever draw it when I'm winning or tied 😭

[obsidian sky]

And that’s the point of the thread is it not? To let everyone on both sides show their support for one group or another

[obsidian sky]

Unironically a skill issue

[kindred hollow]

Same but also cockatrice, just because of how frustrating those 50/50s can be

[obsidian sky]

Cockatrice just needs a small nerf

Its not as egregious

But like 2 turns would be better

[fluid path]

There will be more lock cards if any are nerfed

[obsidian sky]

It stops it from being a 50% “oopsie I locked your hold for all of round 5 with no counterplay teehee”

[kindred hollow]

Or removing some of the randomness, maybe by making it target the highest / lowest cost card so there is non-zero counterplay

[limber whale]

I don’t even mind cockatrice since it’s on return. It’s draw lock that tends to be the problem

[arctic eagle]

And even if you overlock to get rid of it
"Oh you overlocked? Oh well, I'll just re-lock everything again every turn 🤭"

[obsidian sky]

Being on Return makes it much more likely to lock your hold for all of Round 5, which is the main issue with the card

[limber whale]

I mean I like that, it means lock is serving it’s purpose as a hold card counter over a “my opponent can’t play the game” mechanic

[kindred hollow]

I'll leave for now with the statement that lots of rng + extremely high impact + little to no risk = not fun

[fluid path]

It's not just about your fun. It's fun for lots of others.

[limber whale]

It is quite good for a limrare, but then again avid said that rarity≠playability

[arctic eagle]

Nah.
Look at Amber and Guy Fawkes. (Was) Extremely scarce, yet (still) utterly useless