Ender 3 V3 SE - 1st Layer Optimization / Calibration Help

[frigid moat]

I've been working to calibrate my Ender 3 V3 SE for a while now, following the Ellis tuning guide (https://ellis3dp.com/Print-Tuning-Guide/articles/first_layer_squish.html). I had it working fairly well for a while, even if prints were inconsistent. I wasn't doing anything that really required tolerance or accuracy, so I didn't mind much. But now I want to get this thing dialed in.

I've used the paper method to adjust Z offset, and I've tried following this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8-rdC15H_A&t=619s) to level the bed. I did the glue stick gantry configuration to get that as even as possible. This machine has ABL with no adjustment knobs at the corners of the bed for adjustments. I have used some post-it paper under the print surface to achieve an all-green mesh, but it still seems pretty far out of level?

I have the ability to "Edit" the mesh numbers (as you can see in the attached images), but -- frankly -- I don't quite understand what adjusting the numbers accomplishes. I have tried adjusting them as suggested in the previously-linked video, but ended up with even worse first layer squares. I know some people recommend printing 1mm shims to place on the bed's spacers, but I'm not entirely sure which corners would help to fix this particular spread of values. When i place a ruler diagonally across the print bed (as the official Creality support videos suggest), I do have a gap in the middle of the bed where paper can easily slide under.

I've also attached my recent first layer square tests. You can see they are all of various quality. I have been attempting to live-adjust the Z offset during the prints, but no matter what, I end up with gaps in some, waves in others. For kicks I printed a larger first layer test and you can see a fairly smooth surface at the bottom, but wavy as it goes up. Any guidance would be appreciated. Tech details ahoy:

Printer: Ender 3 V3 SE
Firmware:
Slicer: Orca 2.0
Filament: Duramic 3d PLA
Temps: 220c / 60c

[elfin granite]

I think you have the classic creality cant make a working profile for their life issues. Usally the auto bed level is turned of in your slicer. So even if they say its applied by the printer it isnt

[frigid moat]

I didn't even know that was a classic problem!

[elfin granite]

https://youtu.be/uuGQt9-3ISI dont forget to reset your z offset before you run a new test print! If you leave the current one on its very likely you ram thr nozzle into the bed.

[elfin granite]

Usally three times a day here . 4 to 7 via my own stuff. Its so freaking annoying.

Its since they released the ender 3 with the bltouch or crtouch

Soo 3 or 5 years

[frigid moat]

So by adding in that code from your video (great video btw), does that run the ABL sequence every time before a print runs?

Or does it call up the settings previously set/stored by the ABL to be used for the current print?

[elfin granite]

Yes it runs it everytime

You can add M420 S1 ; enable save mesh to slot 1 once

Below the g29

Then once the mesh was made and the print is done if you hit store settings

Replacing g29 and m420 S1 with just M420 L1 ; load and apply mesh slot 1 .... it should just load the mesh. I was not able to get that to work reliably though

Im still not entierly sure how creality coded the auto zoffset in

It might be part of the g29 routine if thats the case i dont know a work around.

(I dont like the auto z offset because it did not take more then 48 hours till i got reports it failed and destroyed bed and nozzle)

[frigid moat]

@elfin granite Thank you for the detailed explanation. I'll give all that a try and report back.

[elfin granite]

https://tenor.com/view/excellent-happy-mr-burns-simpsons-satisfied-gif-16091269

[lavish kraken]

@frigid moat if you wanna get perfect bed level values then sand the plastic spacers a little by little till you get the perfect values

(I’ve tried it, works greatly well)

or

you can get silicone spacers

Adjust them manually

Silicone spacers do have a great holding value, so you won’t need to level the bed that often

Haven’t gotten a issue after switching to the silicone spacers (quite good in my opinion)

[elfin granite]

The se has a different bed design its not so easy to just replace springs with the silicone buffers now. They use a fixed bed now

[lavish kraken]

Yeah but it is possible,
2 long + 2 short spacers

a lot of manually messing with them to get the values right

se doesn’t have springs

[elfin granite]

Thats why i said its not that easy anymore 🙂

I mean it took creality only .. 2 or 3 years too start using springs that not unscrew them selfs because they had non flat ends

Now with the fixed beds they only need to turn on abl by default and finaly they have no common issue anymorw

Maybe with ender 3 v9000

[lavish kraken]

True

both messing around :p

[lavish kraken]

Ender 3

Pro

Max

Plus

Ultra

super ultra

Scarecrow edition

[lavish kraken]

Atleast they started

[elfin granite]

Not really they did rnd by just stealing popular community mods

[lavish kraken]

If it’s open source who cares,
beginners get something better

By default

Stealing mods is far more common in every community

[elfin granite]

The day creality produces a flawless printer this simulation breaks ^_^

[lavish kraken]

Ender 3 core xz is definitely a great start with this idea

Won’t say it’s perfect

Definitely far better

Than earlier

[elfin granite]

One step forwards 2 steps back with auto zoffset self destruction

[lavish kraken]

Auto Z offset is issue with all the new firmwares

with the load cell

tho a better form should fix it or did they brick it up?

[elfin granite]

Its over all a stupid idea but i always overestimate end users

[lavish kraken]

Still I do think it could fixed by the firmware?

Or did they brick the new v3

[elfin granite]

Honestly i dont know

[lavish kraken]

As far I’ve the newer firmware is the issue

Old ones are doing fine

[elfin granite]

No the auto z offset is done via load cell and i wasnt able to find its specs. From work i loath load cells

[frigid moat]

I finally figured out how to visualize my mesh, and now that I see how it looks... this is basically saying that all my corners are too high compared to the center of the bed (which is not at all adjustable), so if I do a little sanding on each of the spacers that hold the bed in place, that should bring those corners down into flush?

[elfin granite]

How high is the deviation?

[frigid moat]

I actualy just took out all my post-it "shims" to see what the visualizer looked liek with absolutely nothing adjusted. Here it is:

[elfin granite]

Yeah .6 is not great

[frigid moat]

So from what @lavish kraken suggestd, i could sand the 3 high corners a bit to bring those corners down

[elfin granite]

That or you try pulling the middle up

[frigid moat]

after some sanding & shimming:

worth continuing to dial it in, ya think? or good enough?

[elfin granite]

Try it once more at 100c or so

[frigid moat]

As in, run the ABL with the bed temp at 100c?

[elfin granite]

Yea

Always run it at temp

[frigid moat]

Gotcha. I don't usually run the bed that hot. Usually i'm doing PLA closer to 60 or 80 at the max

[elfin granite]

Yeah i thought of that but it would be interresting. Not more not less. I dont remember a material that would need 100c bed but no enclosure

[frigid moat]

Okay I did it and ended up here:

I've tried running the calibration print and it still comes out pretty gappy. then i babystep the z offset down, and it's basically gappy right up until it's basically scraping the bed surface.

now i'm wondering if my filament settings aren't right in the Orca slicer. But i'm trying to follow the Ellis guide in order, and filament settings come later... frustrating hahah