Map Pool

[knotty meteor]

mixers also are considerably more accessible in a slew of ways

[white nebula]

And they'll never get played. Then we'll play them once and whatever team the game was stacked against will yell for removing the map.

This community is so predictable

[knotty meteor]

Fair

[white nebula]

Idk why I come back day after day tbh

[knotty meteor]

TA addiction xd

[river timber]

oi if the map is really good we get to play it more often

elysian battleground is the best example

almost competing with walledin in terms of pick rate

[knotty meteor]

elysian battleground is one of 3 map choices in 2v2, and lava arena is miserable

[white nebula]

Terrible example. Not a 7v7 map or format, way smaller player base for 2v2s. Barely relevant

[river timber]

walled was the map choice for 2v2s for over a decade

[river timber]

thats true, its harder to move 14 players to try something and give feedback

i dont think our problem is just trying, almost no one is giving feedback

its just i dont like x map but also changes take too long

[knotty meteor]

fair xd

[river timber]

not blaming map makers

[white nebula]

This is also true. No feedback only complaints and "can we never play it again"

[river timber]

its just the tool and the way they* deliver updates

[knotty meteor]

changes might be faster if more people gave feedback- changing maps is quite quick, just perfecting stuff is harder

[river timber]

like we know fractures problem, too easy to run 400kph and go through midfield in 5s, i cant even fart fast enough to beat it

but the thing is, when would we get a change or fix for that?, evil is already working on a lot stuff xd

[knotty meteor]

ask Evil xd

[white nebula]

Oceanus is the only map that imo got the treatment a new map really deserved and even then it got totally shafted.

Like if we have such a deep aversion to trying new maps then what motivation does our community have to try and make new maps. No new maps = no new content. No new content = stale gameplay. Stale gameplay = eventually lose players. Addiction only keeps players for so long.

[river timber]

id like to try new maps, thats why my idea is just having the most popular maps+ 2 maps in rotation

[white nebula]

We are actively doing ourselves a disservice by saying fuck off to any map that's not arx/kata/dx

[river timber]

sooner or later someone will ban the most populars and we are going to play those 2 in rotation

those maps could be from different map makers so we give them feedback

[white nebula]

The +2 will be the first two map bans every time and you know it

If the goal is to have a tight feedback loop, then getting played once every 2 weeks isn't gonna do it

[knotty meteor]

Why can't we just have like, 12 maps to choose from?

I simply don't get why we limit our map choices so heavily- plenty of players will try other maps

[river timber]

ok then what about arx/kata or arx/dx + 2 stock maps we don't play that much + 2 community

but even then most players will just ban the 2 community maps first

[knotty meteor]

fair

[glass wolf]

what about fuck arx/kata/dx for a couple weeks

[white nebula]

1 of arx/kata/dx, 1 stock map, 1 or 2 community maps.

Then maybe we'll see some progress

[knotty meteor]

I still like Jive's much earlier idea of bot-selected map pools from like, 20 maps

[river timber]

we should have at least 1 day of the week like community feedback day

[knotty meteor]

that is, bot picks 7/20 then captains pick others

[river timber]

we give feedback and the map actually gets fixed

and not just 'its cos you dont play it u bad'

[knotty meteor]

[white nebula]

I'm down for that.

I'm suspect on whether or not we'll continue to get pugs that day, but I'm always down to try

[river timber]

we should start with oceanus, its the closest to get good enough to compete with the most played

but i wonder if the map maker has time to fix it (not name shaming here)

[white nebula]

Valid concern. No shade

[knotty meteor]

Dodge has done some stuff to Oceanus xd

it's just not in the live version yet

[river timber]

my main concern about the map is the booster, i want to die when it doesnt work

[knotty meteor]

[white nebula]

Yeah the boosters not working always sucks

[knotty meteor]

Oceanus is a map that people are also getting used to, which is good

[white nebula]

Yeah. Like I said earlier, it's the closest we've gotten to giving a new map an actual chance.

The other thing is that if we actually focus on iterating on new maps we could legitimately end up with a big pool of maps that actually are better if not just as good as arx/kata/dx

It's extremely doable and in fact very likely

[knotty meteor]

making a map better than kata would be very difficult, but someday xd

[white nebula]

Its mind boggling to me how we play 3 maps we are literally unable to modify and improve over maps that we can

[river timber]

i have no fucking idea but is there a way to fix those 25s routes this guy @bleak vapor is spamming?

[knotty meteor]

not really, no

[river timber]

i think thats a good reason why defense players dont like it

[knotty meteor]

I like it playing D, but it is rough

offense hits quickly and capper too

[white nebula]

I maintain that defense is just as bad on oceanus as arx

Not as bad as dx, but arx kinda sucks for D too

[river timber]

but defense has our better players every game!

[knotty meteor]

HoF on arx is a lot better than HoF on Oceanus

[white nebula]

Hof on dx is the worst. Ever. Period.

[river timber]

i was able to hof on dx so i agree

[knotty meteor]

yeah xd, I edited my message

[river timber]

3x jugg meta f

[white nebula]

Hold w at stand and get home in 7s

[knotty meteor]

HoF on Oceanus is just rough because there's little cover and it's a high spot of the area

[white nebula]

Dx is a silly map

[knotty meteor]

also the gen pop out spot is right next to the flagstand

[river timber]

oceanus shares arx problems+ some extra

like getting mortars from the middle bridge

[bleak vapor]

defense players crying about offense sided maps is the best tbh

[knotty meteor]

Oceanus has arx problems but at least it isn't a free sniper map

I'd liken Oceanus to like, a mix of Bella and Arx xd

[white nebula]

After capping on arx I wanna legit toaster bath.

It's the worst capping map. The most SEN dominant map besides xfire and maybe dd. And somehow we play it all the goddamn time. Oceanus at least feels more balanced to all roles.

It feels like you actually stand a fighting chance in any given role.

[knotty meteor]

Bella xd

Bella is better for snipers imo

[white nebula]

Bella is huge and has enough hills. Also you can walk through the gen room and fully be out of Sen los

[knotty meteor]

true

[white nebula]

Arx you're fucked till you cross the middle aqua. And even then Sen just slides for 4 seconds and crosses the aqua anyways

[glass wolf]

Arx is legit a steaming pile of shit for capping on. Rather not pretend it isn't

Are you coming in on the scuffed left or right thru the tunnel?
Or are you on yet-another-back that's easy to spot,snipe, and stop?

[bleak vapor]

just run a front

always works

[knotty meteor]

I don't like the words matin front anymore xd

just do a pseudo-orbital right

works every time

[waxen girder]

The issue with maps isn't really the maps for close games but players.

We have players who practice vs those who don't and it very much shows the difference.

Our team on blues the other day was a great example. None of us remembered how to run routes on blues. (My fault too)

Oceanus has a similar thing. I get feedback saying sniper is too weak when a snipe dominated on the opposing team that same game. Same feedback was for the official map perma as well.

I'm at a stage where we've played blues enough to know it has issues and we have players actively not wanting to learn it so we should shift away from that community map.

[waxen girder]

That's the point of the map, extremely quick runs. If it was slower D would love life.

As for the boosters, I'm a bit stuck due to an issue with my PC. We are trying to figure it out now before next release.

[knotty meteor]

it sounds like we need a new balancing statistic for players

[waxen girder]

A balanced game doesn't mean a good game either tho imo, a map can still make a game very boring and slow (blues) or too fast & stressful (Oceanus) depending on your outlook. Regardless of the score

[river timber]

what issue with your pc? stop pirating too many movies xd

[knotty meteor]

yeah xd, I was joking about an "activity" score to see how often players actually play

[south sundial]

When the community maps started to queue and be updated, I didn't learn routes for them. I thought I might as well wait until they are finally released. You know, old guy and memory here, lol! I can only handle a few kilobits on my floppy disc 🤣

[river timber]

its not about disk size, its about how to use data. uwu

lets not forget they went to the moon with 72kb rom 🌕

[waxen girder]

The editor crashes every time I test then change a setting. Doesn't happen for other people.

[waxen girder]

Right now I'd recommend learning routes for any map in the queue. I'll try to keep the maps in there for a bit longer than the current lot.

I need to be better about practicing maps as well personally.

In saying that, the queue will be changing in the next week or two I'd estimate.

[fickle sleet]

Vote drydock in the poll too

😢

[waxen girder]

PUG Map rotation will soon have the following removed:

Blues, Permafrost, Drydock

The following added:

Ascent

2 weeks later, Andromeda & Polaris will be added.

2 weeks later, Eclipse will be added & Sunstar removed.

Get ready to learn some maps!

[shell bane]

ummmm... pushes up glasses what about week 6 when we get crash and meridian????

[patent kiln]

If anyone is making routes for the new maps, you can use https://www.evxl.app/route-decoder to mirror routes from one side to the other on the x, y, axis (what all the community maps use). just upload a route file, and then click the download button, then put it back in the routes folder, and it should just work

[waxen girder]

Meridian needs route files

Honestly we shouldn't even move onto another map until we have cappers learn routes

[patent kiln]

I might add multiple route uploading at once and different mirroring methods at some point if required

[waxen girder]

Might even want a chill and learn routes event if it gets people to actually learn them

[nimble yoke]

i'd rather a netfix and chill night

[waxen girder]

We need an escort gofundme for iced

[nimble yoke]

im talkin w/ tribers

[white nebula]

@waxen girder should I run update.sh on solly's servers

[waxen girder]

I'm not sure how solly has it setup

[white nebula]

hmm

is an update needed as a result of this update?

[waxen girder]

Not really, his script will need updating

what he'll probably need to do is create a CookedPC volume and manually update the maps there

[white nebula]

@river timber you're gonna have to do that idk how to do that lol

[river timber]

what does the update.sh do ?

[waxen girder]

With the way I host it's a script that will download the latest master from the tribes-vm github

the taserver.sh script also allows you to mount the CookedPC folder with -c 'directory'

[river timber]

can you send the script so i can take a look at it? xd

[waxen girder]

https://github.com/JigglyJoogins/tribes-vm/blob/main/taserver.sh

I'm making a CookedPC folder for mounting on your vm

oi install unzip for me @river timber

[river timber]

oh ic how you do it now

you mount and download the whole maps to that folder

[waxen girder]

I already put a script on your vm

just needs unzip & then running and should work

[river timber]

but we would need to run the scripts different

right

1 sec

[waxen girder]

yeah

your taserver.sh and your launch script

you'd also need to add the new maps

[river timber]

just del every file there but send evil how to run each map with your scripts

[waxen girder]

are you swapping over to my stuff?

[river timber]

i mean to keep everything the same